Michael Biehn *could* be in Alien 5

Started by Vrastal, Mar 01, 2015, 01:16:31 AM

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Michael Biehn *could* be in Alien 5 (Read 44,195 times)

Sagit

Sagit

#60
I just want to know one thing... where they are? No but seriously why do movie makers have to complicate almost every franchise? Previous four Alien movies told us pretty good and actualy solid story (Resurrection was weak I know). Why there has to be a spin-off, prequel to the prequel, alternate story/endings? Is it so hard to come up with new good plot for ALien 5. If director of ALien 5 is out of ideas he should just ask people on this forum. He will be given an inifinite amount of material to work on for next 10 years without making an alternate version of story we all love and bringing our beloved heroes from their retirement.
Just give us new characters and new story and make it into solid Alien movie without alle this alternate BS. I don;t mind a little Ripley cameo but leave the Hicks alone. He is dead (A:CM plot was so weak that nobody should consider it canon), deal with it.
Just some thoughts...

szkoki

szkoki

#61
oh my soap opera. its ridicilous. bring back Hudson and Parker too

SiL

SiL

#62
Quote from: MCP on Mar 02, 2015, 10:27:16 AM
But no one really cared when he died.
Most people find him one of the few good characters in the movie and hate that he dies when he does.

OpenMaw

Quote from: MCP on Mar 02, 2015, 10:27:16 AM
romantic subplots.

"Hi, i'm Ripley. Everyone I know has died, including my daughter, and a little girl who became my new surrogate daughter. Wanna f*ck?!"

Yeah, I didn't really think the attempt at "romance" worked in Alien 3. I did like the relationship between the two characters though, and as SiL said his death really threw me off. Not in a good way either, because the film, the theatrical version anyway, has a real lack of solid characters. After they take out Andrews, too, the film suffers greatly from only having, basically, three solidly defined characters.

robbritton

Isn't Hicks relatively unique in the canon in that he pretty much just believes Ripley? From the word go he is listening, and is unlikely to attribute her stories to space sickness (as Clemens, entirely reasonably, might). Where the other Marines are bull headed he is quiet and contained. Which is an interseting thing to play in that world. Someone level headed who out and out agrees with Ripley, and someone capable who doesn't contradict her instints, but rather enables them.

And his is an experience (were he to survive) unexplored in the series too. We've had a person lose fractious crewmates and a child to time, but this is a person losing real, genuine camaraderie but also gaining a new unit. The idea of the surrogate family unit in a world that knows these things exist -  Does that make you more or less out to exterminate them? Ripley never has anything to lose after Alien (especially after Hicks and Newt are killed offscreen). If Hicks's sole function is to present a different side of her - a woman with a lot to lose still after these things - then that is still import enough.

And take it to Earth War places, and there are opportunities for conflict in how these survivors deal with their survival. There are stories to tell here that could justify this decision, as long as it isn't just done for the sake of it. From Fox's point of view it makes sense to draft in a fan favourite who could shoulder future films should Weaver want to bow out too. It's not like Michael Biehn is going to refuse a high profile series after getting stiffed on A3, T2 and Avatar, is it? There's money in series, and familiar faces bring audiences back.


I wouldn't put his odds high on surviving this one, mind. It's card trick thinking, innit? Everyone will be so wary of the fact he dies in A3 that they'll be certain he'll survive this one, which means Blomkamp is likely to undermine that certainty for shock effect. Although, I can see Hicks living on with Newt while Ripley finally goes (which is super pointless as they did it in A3, but there we are). Conjecture is the best.

MCP

MCP

#65
Quote from: SiL on Mar 02, 2015, 11:04:19 AM
Quote from: MCP on Mar 02, 2015, 10:27:16 AM
But no one really cared when he died.
Most people find him one of the few good characters in the movie and hate that he dies when he does.

That's true but I don't see the legions of fans bawling about it like they do with Hicks.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 02, 2015, 11:07:37 AM
Quote from: MCP on Mar 02, 2015, 10:27:16 AM
romantic subplots.

"Hi, i'm Ripley. Everyone I know has died, including my daughter, and a little girl who became my new surrogate daughter. Wanna f*ck?!"

Yeah, I didn't really think the attempt at "romance" worked in Alien 3. I did like the relationship between the two characters though, and as SiL said his death really threw me off. Not in a good way either, because the film, the theatrical version anyway, has a real lack of solid characters. After they take out Andrews, too, the film suffers greatly from only having, basically, three solidly defined characters.

I don't even count the theatrical version anymore..

And I don't really call it 'romance' in the traditional sense.  I don't think the fact they had sex was really a big deal.

Quote from: robbritton on Mar 02, 2015, 11:26:38 AM
Isn't Hicks relatively unique in the canon in that he pretty much just believes Ripley? From the word go he is listening, and is unlikely to attribute her stories to space sickness (as Clemens, entirely reasonably, might).

Clemens did listen to Ripley, hence doing the autopsy on Newt and investigating the burn mark where Murphy was killed.  He also recounted her story to Andrews.

TimmyTurnersDad

Quote from: MCP on Mar 02, 2015, 11:32:24 AM
Quote from: SiL on Mar 02, 2015, 11:04:19 AM
Quote from: MCP on Mar 02, 2015, 10:27:16 AM
But no one really cared when he died.
Most people find him one of the few good characters in the movie and hate that he dies when he does.

That's true but I don't see the legions of fans bawling about it like they do with Hicks.

That would be because Clemens' story is ultimately self-contained within Alien 3. Yeah, he's one of the most interesting characters in the film and his relationship with Ripley is more complex than what she had with Hicks, but he was always meant to get the axe within the confines of the same film he was introduced in. The same goes for Dillon too.

Meanwhile, Hicks was someone who appeared in Aliens as a portion of Ripley's new "family." His character wasn't nearly as developed as Clemens would go on to be, but it was fully the director's intention that Hicks would live and go on to grow as a character and in his relationship (whatever its nature would be) with Ripley. The same goes for Newt and Bishop. Alien 3 then promptly begins with a sledgehammer to the fans' faces by impaling Hicks in his sleep.

I'm not making a statement on the quality of either film here, btw. I'm just explaining why fans are far more vocal about their disdain that Hicks died over more intriguing or complex characters like Clemens or Dillon.

MCP

MCP

#67
Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Mar 02, 2015, 11:53:49 AM


Meanwhile, Hicks was someone who appeared in Aliens as a portion of Ripley's new "family." His character wasn't nearly as developed as Clemens would go on to be, but it was fully the director's intention that Hicks would live and go on to grow as a character and in his relationship (whatever its nature would be) with Ripley. The same goes for Newt and Bishop. Alien 3 then promptly begins with a sledgehammer to the fans' faces by impaling Hicks in his sleep.

Where else could you take the Hicks character, really?  Biehn may have perfected that 'sensitive tough guy' role, but even in the 80s that was considered cliche.  It's pretty much the domain of cheesy action movies.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#68
Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Mar 02, 2015, 11:53:49 AM
That would be because Clemens' story is ultimately self-contained within Alien 3. Yeah, he's one of the most interesting characters in the film and his relationship with Ripley is more complex than what she had with Hicks, but he was always meant to get the axe within the confines of the same film he was introduced in.

A version of Clemens was originally the main character. Then he became a secondary character who sacrificed himself at the end to save Ripley and the universe. Then he was a secondary character who, according to storyboards, at least made it to the end of the film. And then he was a secondary character who unceremoniously exited the movie halfway through. Clusterf**k.

QuoteWhere else could you take the Hicks character, really?  Biehn may have perfected that 'sensitive tough guy' role, but even in the 80s that was considered cliche.  It's pretty much the domain of cheesy action movies.

Dark Horse did pretty well with their alcoholic, embittered version of Hicks. Let's not be unimaginative; you could have done a lot with the character if you wanted to. Look at what they did with the Ripley character between the first and second films.

robbritton

Quote from: MCP on Mar 02, 2015, 11:32:24 AM
Quote from: SiL on Mar 02, 2015, 11:04:19 AM
Quote from: MCP on Mar 02, 2015, 10:27:16 AM
But no one really cared when he died.
Most people find him one of the few good characters in the movie and hate that he dies when he does.

That's true but I don't see the legions of fans bawling about it like they do with Hicks.

Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 02, 2015, 11:07:37 AM
Quote from: MCP on Mar 02, 2015, 10:27:16 AM
romantic subplots.

"Hi, i'm Ripley. Everyone I know has died, including my daughter, and a little girl who became my new surrogate daughter. Wanna f*ck?!"

Yeah, I didn't really think the attempt at "romance" worked in Alien 3. I did like the relationship between the two characters though, and as SiL said his death really threw me off. Not in a good way either, because the film, the theatrical version anyway, has a real lack of solid characters. After they take out Andrews, too, the film suffers greatly from only having, basically, three solidly defined characters.

I don't even count the theatrical version anymore..

And I don't really call it 'romance' in the traditional sense.  I don't think the fact they had sex was really a big deal.

Quote from: robbritton on Mar 02, 2015, 11:26:38 AM
Isn't Hicks relatively unique in the canon in that he pretty much just believes Ripley? From the word go he is listening, and is unlikely to attribute her stories to space sickness (as Clemens, entirely reasonably, might).

Clemens did listen to Ripley, hence doing the autopsy on Newt and investigating the burn mark where Murphy was killed.  He also recounted her story to Andrews.

Clemens goes along with her, out of concern, but is never given the chance to truly believe her as he is never told about the Alien until it attacks him. He can only suspect.

Valaquen

Quote from: robbritton on Mar 02, 2015, 01:30:23 PM
Clemens goes along with her, out of concern, but is never given the chance to truly believe her as he is never told about the Alien until it attacks him. He can only suspect.

Yeah and it felt like a waste following him for entire scenes, finding clues about the Alien, slowly warming to the guy, and then the film's suddenly done with him. I would've loved to see that character directly interact with Dillon, Morse etc in a time of crisis.

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#71
Clemens easily had the most potential out of the characters introduced in A3.

TimmyTurnersDad

Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 02, 2015, 01:18:49 PM
Quote from: TimmyTurnersDad on Mar 02, 2015, 11:53:49 AM
That would be because Clemens' story is ultimately self-contained within Alien 3. Yeah, he's one of the most interesting characters in the film and his relationship with Ripley is more complex than what she had with Hicks, but he was always meant to get the axe within the confines of the same film he was introduced in.

A version of Clemens was originally the main character. Then he became a secondary character who sacrificed himself at the end to save Ripley and the universe. Then he was a secondary character who, according to storyboards, at least made it to the end of the film. And then he was a secondary character who unceremoniously exited the movie halfway through. Clusterf**k.

Okay, fair enough. But my point still stands: Due to the fact that Clemens is both introduced and killed off within the confines of the same film (Alien 3), it is far easier for general fans to accept his death. Meanwhile, Hicks is introduced in one film with the presumed notion that his character will survive and grow as part of Ripley's new "family," only to be brutally axed off in the opening moments of the immediate sequel.

It's the same reason as to why Hicks and Newt spark so much controversy with their deaths, as opposed to other popular characters from Aliens like Vasquez or Hudson.

Quote
QuoteWhere else could you take the Hicks character, really?  Biehn may have perfected that 'sensitive tough guy' role, but even in the 80s that was considered cliche.  It's pretty much the domain of cheesy action movies.

Dark Horse did pretty well with their alcoholic, embittered version of Hicks. Let's not be unimaginative; you could have done a lot with the character if you wanted to. Look at what they did with the Ripley character between the first and second films.

Indeed. There's definitely places that one could take Hicks for character development. After all, there was at least one plan for him to be the main protagonist and star of Alien 3, instead of Ripley.

OpenMaw

The Hicks dominated Alien 3, the second draft anyway, did carry the character forward. Not a lot, but there was something there, and it ended with the possibility of more in the future. Hicks was a perfectly flexible character which you could do all kinds of stuff with.

On the subject of the Hicks character being in the vein of Kyle Reese, i'll never agree with that exactly. Both characters are actually quite different, and Biehn does deliver very different performances... However, we should give Biehn credit for Hicks even having the softer edges. A few subtle changes in the dialogue and the way it was delivered, is what gave us the Hicks we know and love. The original intend, according to Biehn anyway, was for Hicks to be more or less just as abrasive to Ripley as the rest of the marines.

kliq316

kliq316

#74
I've often wondered how Alien 3 would have worked if Hicks had survived the crash and taken the 'love interest' role that eventually went to Clemens. With Hicks getting killed by the Alien after finally getting close to Ripley would have been far more poetic (and tragic) for Ripley.

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