I looked through the Weyland Investor Information page and I was struck by a few things, so I thought I'd share with the class :)
First was the increase in life expectancy. Now lets say that Project Prometheus was begun in 2073 and would launch in 2081. Thats 8 years past inception and from when Shaw and Holloway probably got the idea to go with Weyland.
I was then wondering about the stasis tech, that if people slept in Stasis beds, they would in theory, age slower. Eight hours sleep would knock a third of your aging off, meaning someone who was 27 in 2072 would age physically 3 years by 2081, so rather than be 36, they'd be 30.
Not much of a gap to be noticable, but what if you're getting on, like Weyland and have the luxury to spend more and more time in stasis? Weyland may not be as old physically as 93 in this movie! 8)
--
Also did anyone notice that there is one android employee yet millions are about Weyland Corp and put to work? Looks like Weyland's David, the one on the trip, would be that employee...
And anyone notice the complete lack of David androids in the security branch of Weyland Corp? Theyre physically able so why not put any there?? Theres also a distinct lack of sales in that sector compared to others, that could bite them in this film when they need to defend themselves!
So thats my thoughts on the new page, any opinions guys? :)
Androids not working in security/defense sectors, could relate to Asimovs 3 laws for robots - not being allowed to harm people (someone correct me if I got them wrong).
I think that could be 1 android per 9 humans in Weylands workforce, gender specified.
QuoteAlso did anyone notice that there is one android employee yet millions are about Weyland Corp and put to work? Looks like Weyland's David, the one on the trip, would be that employee...
1% of employees are artifical I believe, rather than 'one single android'.
QuoteAndroids not working in security/defense sectors, could relate to Asimovs 3 laws for robots - not being allowed to harm people (someone correct me if I got them wrong).
Bishop seemed to indicate the Asimov protocols are a more recent development in 2179, so it's possible robots are kept away from defence for that very reason. And yet, you wouldn't want anything that potentially lethal mixing with the general populace I woulda thunk.
Heck, Weyland may normally just wake himself up one day a year to check on things and see if his robot army has uncovered the secrets to immortality (or the location of the gods) yet.
Possibly the Engineers have already been doing the same thing. Spending long periods of time in stasis (since they appear to have stasis chambers in the Jockey ship) may be the only way for an individual entity to effectively manage a very long term project such as tending to an evolution of a species.
Quote from: harlock on Mar 22, 2012, 12:36:38 AM
First was the increase in life expectancy. Now lets say that Project Prometheus was begun in 2073 and would launch in 2081. Thats 8 years past inception and from when Shaw and Holloway probably got the idea to go with Weyland.
I was then wondering about the stasis tech, that if people slept in Stasis beds, they would in theory, age slower. Eight hours sleep would knock a third of your aging off, meaning someone who was 27 in 2072 would age physically 3 years by 2081, so rather than be 36, they'd be 30.
Not much of a gap to be noticable, but what if you're getting on, like Weyland and have the luxury to spend more and more time in stasis? Weyland may not be as old physically as 93 in this movie! 8)
--
The probably started to prepare the mission in 2073 and launched in 2081. In the recent interview it seems they were in hypersleep for only 2 and a half years
http://m.movies.com/movie-news/prometheus-interview/7133?wssac=164&wssaffid=news (http://m.movies.com/movie-news/prometheus-interview/7133?wssac=164&wssaffid=news)
QuoteWhat I thought was very interesting was that you have this guy who was on his own for two-and-a-half years while everyone else was in cryostasis, so what did he do to amuse himself?
But i do believe weyland had himself frozen some time before the mission began, or in 2073. And they wake him back when they land
Did any of you call the customer service number the investor email sent out DIAL: **WEYLAND
theres a message you can listen to and it sends you a text with a link to the our family is growing video you can watch, even though its still unavailable on their website.
Looking at Cosmic Call 2's wiki page shows there were 5 messages sent to the following constellations;
Cassiopeia, Orion, Cancer, Andromeda and Ursa Major (the last two are the ones most likely still waiting on for a response due to their later arrival dates, but also see below).
We can then assume if the Engineer(s) responded, their messages from the last three stars came in before 2073. But what is more interesting is their links name-wise to Greek Mythology - excluding Cancer and Ursa Major.
Cassiopeia - Tied to a chair of torture by Poseidon for her hubris against him.
Orion - Son of Poseidon, lots of stuff Prometheus related to this guy, read his wikipedia page.
Andromeda - Tied to a rock for the beast Cetus to claim due to her mother Cassiopeia's actions.
I mentioned in another thread the other day that the stars looked like part of Ursa Major (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursa_major#Mythology) <- (it's place in Greek mythology mentioned here).
The "received" part in Cosmic Call 2 messages is really confusing. They received what? Response from an intelligent extraterrestrial life? Don't you think that's a huge discovery, considering it's not mentioned in timeline or anywhere else?
Like; woopty-f**kin-do, we discovered intelligent alien life, but f**k it, we're not even gonna bother announcing it... it's not like anyone cares if we're alone in the universe or not, just list it on some stupid company financial report... yeah, that infographic over there, just say we already received 3 replies from intelligent alien life, while we're expecting 5, since obviously every system we've sent our messages to has to have intelligent life!
I'd really like to know what exactly do they mean by 3/5 Cosmic Call 2 "messages received".
Not sure what to think of this Cosmic Call stuff possibly being integrated into the plot of PROMETHEUS, but if it's handled right, it could ultimately be one of the scariest things in the film. Set aside Carl Sagan's dewey-eyed, boyish wonder at the heavens for a sec and just imagine how terrifying it would be to receive a response from something else out there. Just imagine the overwhelming possibility that contact with an extraterrestrial intelligence could completely destroy us as a culture or entire species, the same way Western explorers destroyed the cultures of the Americas. Hawking is definitely right, "we should keep our heads low." :-X
Which obviously isn't the case here... or at least not yet. So it's either poor wording or a clue.
Quote from: Wolv1337 on Mar 22, 2012, 03:48:06 AM
I'd really like to know what exactly do they mean by 3/5 Cosmic Call 2 "messages received".
I believe that's referring to a confirmation that the system has arrived at it's destination. Not that a reply was actually received.
Quote from: Cvalda on Mar 22, 2012, 03:50:47 AM
Not sure what to think of this Cosmic Call stuff possibly being integrated into the plot of PROMETHEUS, but if it's handled right, it could ultimately be one of the scariest things in the film. Set aside Carl Sagan's dewey-eyed, boyish wonder at the heavens for a sec and just imagine how terrifying it would be to receive a response from something else out there. Just imagine the overwhelming possibility that contact with an extraterrestrial intelligence could completely destroy us as a culture or entire species, the same way Western explorers destroyed the cultures of the Americas. Hawking is definitely right, "we should keep our heads low." :-X
Eh, I think Hawking is a bit of a sensationalist at times. I think it would be a HUGE historical moment, but human beings would probably be too busy questioning intentions, meanings, and things of that nature for our culture or society to collapse.
I don't really see that, honestly. We as a species have pretty much always thought there was something out there. Wanted to believe there other intelligences. I think more than likely it would simply be an affirmation to many.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 22, 2012, 04:05:54 AM
I don't really see that, honestly. We as a species have pretty much always thought there was something out there. Wanted to believe there other intelligences. I think more than likely it would simply be an affirmation to many.
I meant more if they actually came and made contact with us afterward. Even if they weren't overtly hostile, it would still destroy us, the same way every culture does when it comes into contact with a more "advanced" (read: powerful) civilization here on Earth. It would NOT be good for us, most likely.
correction for the article, the site says Adamantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamantine_Spar), not Adamantium.
as for the fact that there are absolutely no androids working in security, perhaps people don't trust them yet?
here are the infographics
(https://www.weylandindustries.com/WeylandInvestInYourFuture.jpg)
(https://www.weylandindustries.com/WeylandFinancialHighlights.jpg)
http://www.projectprometheus.com/ (http://www.projectprometheus.com/)
All destinations of Cosmic Call 2003 might have received the messages, sent from the Earth, by the date, when project Prometheus has been launched, sneak a peek at the charts, column "Arrival says it":
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl546%2Faliennaire%2FPrometheus%2Fcosmiccall.jpg&hash=f1d5d624b18a3a1a25f344d231d87c29d64b53c1)
And if to presume, that response might be transmitted back to Earth at the same constant speed, as it was sent initially, only Cassiopeia's answer would have a chance to make its way to us, because in that case reverse transmittion would hit Earth the next years:
Cassiopeia - 69
Orion - 77
Cancer - 85
Andromeda - 85
Ursa Major - 95
So I suspect it's either the responents use another technology in communicating, which bests the speed of light, or some source at Cassiopeia star system managed to retransmit back 3 of 5 parts of our original Cosmic Call 2003 message (DDM2, AM, BM, ESM or PP, as Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Call) says).
That linked interview is the best one I've read in regards to prometheus yet. Good find. I'm interested character ideas, motivations, choices, etc.... That interview also proves my theory about Ridley and Co. REALLY thinking about not just character in terms of personality, but what they would wear, down to their shoelaces. It tells the critics of the costume choices that they weren't just pandering, they're solid histories.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 22, 2012, 11:18:12 AM
That linked interview is the best one I've read in regards to prometheus yet. Good find. I'm interested character ideas, motivations, choices, etc.... That interview also proves my theory about Ridley and Co. REALLY thinking about not just character in terms of personality, but what they would wear, down to their shoelaces. It tells the critics of the costume choices that they weren't just pandering, they're solid histories.
no offence but it does no such thing, how do you know that the designers didn't research mercenaries on the net and see a lot of computer game characters and decided to do the same?.
i would really like you to also explain to me why prometheus has technology far more futuristic looking than even resurrection that is set hundreds of years in the future way past prometheus?, and please do it without making excuses.
you said in the other thread that wanting an r rating disproved my theory too which was utter nonsense and youve yet to address it...
floating touch screens...
touch screens and info on cryotubes...
flashy displays on everything...
auto med table that removes thing from shaw thats not available in resurrection when they remove queen embryo from ripley...
mass effect style space suits....
theyve done a george lucas to appeal to modern generation and make it stand up when compared to modern sci fi films and games plain and simple.
thanks
rich
Quote from: RICH-ENGLAND on Mar 22, 2012, 11:36:31 AM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 22, 2012, 11:18:12 AM
That linked interview is the best one I've read in regards to prometheus yet. Good find. I'm interested character ideas, motivations, choices, etc.... That interview also proves my theory about Ridley and Co. REALLY thinking about not just character in terms of personality, but what they would wear, down to their shoelaces. It tells the critics of the costume choices that they weren't just pandering, they're solid histories.
no offence but it does no such thing, how do you know that the designers didn't research mercenaries on the net and see a lot of computer game characters and decided to do the same?.
i would really like you to also explain to me why prometheus has technology far more futuristic looking than even resurrection that is set hundreds of years in the future way past prometheus?, and please do it without making excuses.
you said in the other thread that wanting an r rating disproved my theory too which was utter nonsense and youve yet to address it...
floating touch screens...
touch screens and info on cryotubes...
flashy displays on everything...
auto med table that removes thing from shaw thats not available in resurrection when they remove queen embryo from ripley...
mass effect style space suits....
theyve done a george lucas to appeal to modern generation and make it stand up when compared to modern sci fi films and games plain and simple.
thanks
rich
could it not be that the crew of the nostromo were just miners.... ie why would they have the best tech? i mean for project prometheus they are all scientists and archaelogists.... whereas with ripley and co, they were just a work horse.
as for ress.... that was a military post out of regulated space, knowing what politics are like, i doubt they would fund that kind of equipment... hence the crudeness of it all, get the job done, as cheap as possible?
whereas weyland, big company loads of money etc.. etc.. etc..
if that makes sense?
Quote from: wonkyfunk303 on Mar 22, 2012, 11:51:37 AM
Quote from: RICH-ENGLAND on Mar 22, 2012, 11:36:31 AM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 22, 2012, 11:18:12 AM
That linked interview is the best one I've read in regards to prometheus yet. Good find. I'm interested character ideas, motivations, choices, etc.... That interview also proves my theory about Ridley and Co. REALLY thinking about not just character in terms of personality, but what they would wear, down to their shoelaces. It tells the critics of the costume choices that they weren't just pandering, they're solid histories.
no offence but it does no such thing, how do you know that the designers didn't research mercenaries on the net and see a lot of computer game characters and decided to do the same?.
i would really like you to also explain to me why prometheus has technology far more futuristic looking than even resurrection that is set hundreds of years in the future way past prometheus?, and please do it without making excuses.
you said in the other thread that wanting an r rating disproved my theory too which was utter nonsense and youve yet to address it...
floating touch screens...
touch screens and info on cryotubes...
flashy displays on everything...
auto med table that removes thing from shaw thats not available in resurrection when they remove queen embryo from ripley...
mass effect style space suits....
theyve done a george lucas to appeal to modern generation and make it stand up when compared to modern sci fi films and games plain and simple.
thanks
rich
could it not be that the crew of the nostromo were just miners.... ie why would they have the best tech? i mean for project prometheus they are all scientists and archaelogists.... whereas with ripley and co, they were just a work horse.
as for ress.... that was a military post out of regulated space, knowing what politics are like, i doubt they would fund that kind of equipment... hence the crudeness of it all, get the job done, as cheap as possible?
whereas weyland, big company loads of money etc.. etc.. etc..
if that makes sense?
sorry mate but you dont seem to be getting my point, its very easy to sit and make up reasons why and to retcon them in your own mind to make them fit, but they arent real reasons, im talking about the real reason its been done in prometheus....
but just to answer one reason you gave, the med bed in alien resurrection is well over 200 years after prometheus, im pretty sure they could afford to have one by then, and the fact that its out of regulation space is just to cover up what its up to, no expense appears to be spared elsewhere, they appear to have built a huge ship with staff etc just exactly for the purpose of breeding the aliens, im sure an auto med bed wouldnt be missed out to save cost when it could be so useful for the mission.
thanks
rich
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 22, 2012, 11:18:12 AM
That linked interview is the best one I've read in regards to prometheus yet. Good find. I'm interested character ideas, motivations, choices, etc.... That interview also proves my theory about Ridley and Co. REALLY thinking about not just character in terms of personality, but what they would wear, down to their shoelaces. It tells the critics of the costume choices that they weren't just pandering, they're solid histories.
and just to add, i know you arent a gamer but i dont think you realise how big the gaming industry is nowadays.
about 70% pf the worlds populaition plays video games,.... thats most of the developed world.....
the average age of gamers is 33, and average age of game buyers is 40, most gamers are aged between 18 and 35
people also play at aged 65 to 70.....
http://videogames.lovetoknow.com/video-games/how-many-people-play-video-games (http://videogames.lovetoknow.com/video-games/how-many-people-play-video-games)
now taking these numbers into account, i would say that most the percentage of prometheus target audience will be gamers, i would also bet that a fair percent of the staff/film crew/designers are gamers too
also i would bet that some of the crew have also worked on games at some point as many big games have movie budgets, actors, designers etc.
now again granted that games have borrowed/stole or been influenced by the alien series but i think its also come full circle and movies are influenced by games and also try to appeal to whats in fashion.
now after seeing these numbers, if you think that no movie designers/makers get influenced by games or try to appeal to gaming audience then i think youre living in fantasy land..
thanks
rich
Rich, we get it. You've made it up in your mind that Ridley Scott has sold himself out to the gaming crowd. Okay, its absolutely unprovable, but so be it. Think what you'd like.
In terms of the tech...Ridley Scott said it himself at the Wondercon Panel "It was a conscious decision." Got it? I myself am not upset by it in the least. Why you ask? Because this is about story and not the continuity of technology. If the Star Wars prequels had good stories everything else wouldn't have jumped out at us.
In terms of character or costume design...could they have gone online to see what gamers were wearing or whattheshitever? For sure. Is that paper thin theory provable? Not in the least. Remeber what Brett wore in ALIEN? A Hawain shirt, yep, a Hawain fraking shirt. Parker wore a head band. They fit somewhat seamlessly into their character design.
Again, Ridley Scott said that they even thought about the shoelaces of the characters. That's enough for me. If you want to continue to choose to go apeshit over the peripheral aspects of this film, please, be my guest. You are not beholden to me, nor I to you. I'm interested in STORY, first and foremost. If the story is phenomenal, great, if it ends up being shit, then that would be unfortunate. For now, I'm more the pleasantly surprised by most of everything I've seen. Maybe the tech is different but the tone is pitch perfect. It looks and Feels like A L I E N.
Lastly, a 'gamer' and people who casually play video games are two different beasts. I know a lot of people who play video games, but I only know ONE true gamer, some one who lives and breathes the culture. Those are two separate ideas. The Matrix films pandered completely to gamers and the rich and eccentric gaming community and I see Zero matrix-esque musings in the look of Prometheus. I'm actually a pop culture major, surprise surprise (not that it makes me an expert) but if you're going to assert the opinion that Ridley Scott is pandering to the gaming community with the art direction and character design of Prometheus, you have to back that up, or just be proven wrong. The Matrix films, eXtisenze, the Resident Evil films (etc,..) those are films designed around a niche or a community. One character with a mohawk and some facial/neck tattoos have more in common with blue collar deployed service members then the gaming community. By that theory the prisoners of Fiorina 161 are also fashioned around the gaming community. Also, when it comes to art direction, design, and costume design, often times the people in these roles are quite a bit older and draw their inspiration from many many different aspects of plausible future aesthetics.
Why would RS try to make Prometheus tech look the same or even more primitive than ALIEN? Heck, our display tech here in good ole 2012 (in the real world) blows the movie ALIEN (sci fi 2122) tech out of the water. I'm fine with the technology retcon here.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 22, 2012, 12:45:05 PM
Rich, we get it. You've made it up in your mind that Ridley Scott has sold himself out to the gaming crowd. Okay.its absolutely unprovable, but so be it. Think what you'd like.
In terms of the tech...Ridley Scott said it himself at the Wondercon Panel "It was a conscious decision." Got it? I myself am not upset by it in the least. Why you ask? Because this is about story and not the continuity of technology. If the Star Wars prequels had good stories everything else wouldn't have jumped out at us.
In terms of character or costume design...could they have gone online to see what gamers were wearing or whattheshitever? For sure. Is that paper thin theory provable? Not in the least. Remeber what Brett wore in ALIEN? A Hawain shirt, yep, a Hawain fraking shirt. Parker wore a head band. They fit somewhat seamlessly into their character design.
Again, Ridley Scott said that they even thought about the shoelaces of the characters. That's enough for me. If you want to continue to choose to go apeshit over the peripheral aspects of this film, please, be my guest. You are not beholden to me, nor I to you. I'm interested in STORY, first and foremost. If the story is phenomenal great, if it ends up being shit, then that would be unfortunate. For now, I'm more the pleasantly surprised by most of everything I've seen. Maybe the tech is different but the tone is pitch perfect. It looks and Feels like A L I E N.
this post just goes to prove you have not read or taken notice of my posts properly at all, nowhere have i gone ape shit, that would be you... just like you do every single time someone makes the slightest criticism of scott or prometheus, which is exactly why i wrote this in my first post "before any overbearing fanboys/girls flame me"....
in my very first post on the matter, i explained that i wasnt upset by it and was 100% looking forward to the movie, would ignore the gripes i have as long as the movies good, and that i made that post just for the sake of conversation in a thread that was made specifically for that reason, i also alre4ady explained that i like the designs mostly, but my problem is they dont fit with established canon, but again dont care as long as its a good movie....ive also explained that i understand why its been done.
and yes, scott made a conscious decision over the design yes i get it, he made a conscious decision to make it more futuristic to appeal modern sci fi/gaming demographic of 18 to 30s...as it has to make a lot of money to cover its budget and make a profit
but the problem is here, you seem to have ignored all what i said and also have failed to address most points ive made or answer questions, reason being is you are too busy ranting because ive offended your god ridley
you appear to think that gaming is for some niche crowd of children which would explain your comment about r ratings, and you think its below scott and his designers.
thanks
rich
"and yes, scott made a conscious decision over the design yes i get it, he made a conscious decision to make it more futuristic to appeal modern sci fi/gaming demographic of 18 to 30s...as it has to make a lot of money to cover its budget and make a profit"
Scott made a conscious decision to make the tech of the film more advance. The 'to appeal to the scifi gaming demographic' is a bit that you're presupposing. I by no means think Ridley Scott is a god. He's made some stinkers and I've been critical of him in the past. Your articulation only tries to shut my opinions down, so be it.
Please point out what any points of yours I've missed and I will address each one of them. :)
What if this is Weyland's golden age? And after Prometheus, without their king the kingdom enters decline... You know what happens after the Golden Age of myth? We lose paradise, things get less perfect. What if the Weyland-Yutani merge is the only way these two companies can almost remain leading edge in space without the genius of Weyland, or even possibly begin to understand what just happened to their joint venture.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 22, 2012, 12:45:05 PM
Rich, we get it. You've made it up in your mind that Ridley Scott has sold himself out to the gaming crowd. Okay, its absolutely unprovable, but so be it. Think what you'd like.
In terms of the tech...Ridley Scott said it himself at the Wondercon Panel "It was a conscious decision." Got it? I myself am not upset by it in the least. Why you ask? Because this is about story and not the continuity of technology. If the Star Wars prequels had good stories everything else wouldn't have jumped out at us.
In terms of character or costume design...could they have gone online to see what gamers were wearing or whattheshitever? For sure. Is that paper thin theory provable? Not in the least. Remeber what Brett wore in ALIEN? A Hawain shirt, yep, a Hawain fraking shirt. Parker wore a head band. They fit somewhat seamlessly into their character design.
Again, Ridley Scott said that they even thought about the shoelaces of the characters. That's enough for me. If you want to continue to choose to go apeshit over the peripheral aspects of this film, please, be my guest. You are not beholden to me, nor I to you. I'm interested in STORY, first and foremost. If the story is phenomenal, great, if it ends up being shit, then that would be unfortunate. For now, I'm more the pleasantly surprised by most of everything I've seen. Maybe the tech is different but the tone is pitch perfect. It looks and Feels like A L I E N.
Lastly, a 'gamer' and people who casually play video games are two different beasts. I know a lot of people who play video games, but I only know ONE true gamer, some one who lives and breathes the culture. Those are two separate ideas. The Matrix films pandered completely to gamers and the rich and eccentric gaming community and I see Zero matrix-esque musings in the look of Prometheus. I'm actually a pop culture major, surprise surprise (not that it makes me an expert) but if you're going to assert the opinion that Ridley Scott is pandering to the gaming community with the art direction and character design of Prometheus, you have to back that up, or just be proven wrong. The Matrix films, eXtisenze, the Resident Evil films (etc,..) those are films designed around a niche or a community. One character with a mohawk and some facial/neck tattoos have more in common with blue collar deployed service members then the gaming community. By that theory the prisoners of Fiorina 161 are also fashioned around the gaming community. Also, when it comes to art direction, design, and costume design, often times the people in these roles are quite a bit older and draw their inspiration from many many different aspects of plausible future aesthetics.
in answer to your added part, i know hundreds of gamers which spend most their spare time on games, and mostly in my age group...
and in reply to the part about blue collar deployed servicemen, i had a fair few friends in the royal marines and other military branches that fought in afghanistan/iraq/northern ireland, some of those went on to wrok for a company called aegis as security/mercenaries back in iraq, ive never seen a single one with a mohawk, one of them was killed by an ied and there were hundreds of marines/servicemen at the funeral, didnt see a single one looking like fifield but as i posted in the other thread, i can and did post picture upon picture of mohawked video game soldiers/mercenaries.....
thanks
rich
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 22, 2012, 01:15:32 PM
"and yes, scott made a conscious decision over the design yes i get it, he made a conscious decision to make it more futuristic to appeal modern sci fi/gaming demographic of 18 to 30s...as it has to make a lot of money to cover its budget and make a profit"
Scott made a conscious decision to make the tech of the film more advance. The 'to appeal to the scifi gaming demographic' is a bit that you're presupposing. I by no means think Ridley Scott is a god. He's made some stinkers and I've been critical of him in the past. Your articulation only tries to shut my opinions down, so be it.
Please point out what any points of yours I've missed and I will address each one of them. :)
well please explain why hes made the decision to make it more high tech? theres no other reason for it but to appeal to the modern generation, or are you telling me that someone of scotts calibre cant possibly make a movie that sticks to established canon without a very good reason?... this movie has a huge budget, alien movies in general do not make big money in the realms of what this needs to make, and to do that it must appeal to the most important demographic of 18 to 30s and if you dont think that then youre crazy, if you look at any fox sci fi tv show and its ratings, they specifically need to appeal to that demographic and shows get canned when they dont to which fringe and alcatraz will be next on the long list of fox cancellations... fox take that very seriously indeed and may well have had an influence, notice how quickly scott moves on from that with no explanation other than it was a conscious decision? because he probably doesnt want to explain the real reasons as he would get a backlash for it if he admitted to it.
my articulations are not aimed at shutting down your opinions at all, again thats more the other way round, again i posted in a thread made specifically made for griping just for the sake of conversation and you jumped all over it....
and as for you not answering things and addressing points, theres been plenty, but i cba to go back and read all of it, but you could at least explain your r rating comment and how that proves my theory wrong? i think i already know the answer but lets see if youre going to be honest....
also address what ive said about the tech in my previous posts in this thread and give me a real reason why its more futuristic over things set hundreds of years after, and please without made up retcon reasons for why you think it can fit?/.
thanks
rich
1. Why is it more high tech? - Ridley Scott "it was a conscious decision" Damon Lindelof "The Nostromo was a mining ship with considerably lower tech" their answers not mine. I'm answering with answers that are fact, not my opinion. My 'opinion' doesn't mean shit. I like to deal in only what's been said and not presupposition or presumption.
2. My R rated commented. I was presumptuous and wrong about that and will freely admit to it as I don't know everything ;)
I think it's tough to argue against a lot of what Rich is saying.
Look at the two trailers (US and UK) and you get an idea of how much different the US audience is...and you can clearly see how they aimed the US trailer at the Avatar crowd.
That said...
I understand this dynamic and although I am not crazy about the tech in Prometheus (when compared to Alien), I am not one that gets too caught up in the canon argument when it comes to technology used in films. So long as some kind of reasonable explanation exists within the story, I will accept it.
My case in point is Star Trek (2009) vs TOS. I know many people hated that the 2009 version did not embrace the 60's again...but to me, the movie was entertaining and allowed for more Star Trek movies. I prefer this over the alternative (no ST movies).
It's 2012. Times change, people change and...movies change.
Embrace the change!!! ;)
Not trying to deny anybody's right to disagree and I don't think there is a RIGHT answer here. I just happen to think accepting some of those things that are not in your (my) control, will allow you (me) to have a CHANCE at finding this film entertaining/enjoyable.
Who knows...June 9th I might regret every word I've written...but I feel at least I am giving myself a chance to watch this movie without too many strings attached to the past.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 22, 2012, 02:30:28 PM
1. Why is it more high tech? - Ridley Scott "it was a conscious decision" Damon Lindelof "The Nostromo was a mining ship with considerably lower tech" their answers not mine. I'm answering with answers that are fact, not my opinion. My 'opinion' doesn't mean shit. I like to deal in only what's been said and not presupposition or presumption.
2. My R rated commented. I was presumptuous and wrong about that and will freely admit to it as I don't know everything ;)
1) ive already pointed out reasons why its more high tech, and come on mate, surely you can see it, and yes lindeloff did answer with that which is basically an excuse retcon to deal with the fact it is far more high tech which he had to think about.
but in reality, the floating screens, touch screens, flashy computer graphics on displays in the ship, the auto med bed and flashy touch screen stuff on cryotubes are far more high tech than anything seen in any of thye other alien films, aliens is set a whole 87 years after prometheus and alien resurrection something like 287 years later yet prometheus looks far higher tech in regards to screens, computers, med bed.
now seriously, can you give me a real honest reason why it has been done and NOT a retconned excuse/explanation to make it fit......
2) exactly what i thought, and again i mean no offence as i honestly like you, BUT, you take everything personally as you are such a huge fan and are typing things without thinking or knowing just because you dont like them or dont want them to be true. you made that comment as you thought gaming was a small niche market for children whens its the exact opposite which in turn, your knowledge of the gaming industry and train of thought has influenced you on this matter, the marketting budget alone for games like modern warfare 3 and battlefield 3 is over $100 million, and those are games with an 18/R rating... that amount of money is more than a lot of movie budgets which just goes to show how big these things are these days.
i personally have been a gamer since i was a child, ive been brought up on it just as i was with alien/star wars movies etc, it is huge, and seriously, most people game these days, and a lot of people that work on movies also work on games too which in turn they take influences from each other, again i say i actually like the designs (aprt from fifiield) but my little gripe is they just dont match up to the rest, again, i understand why, its a decision that has to be made, were not in the 70s now, and 70s video screens and computer graphics are not going to appeal to the mass market of people which this movie is aimed at which are needed to make money, its no good for them to just try and appeal to the hardcore alien fans with a huge budget movie, which i also think is one of the reasons theyve tried to distance prometheus as a prequel.
thanks
rich
Rich. Let me ask you, do you know that flat screens and other technology that is being used in Prometheus wasn't available in the late 70's?
And if they did have that technology I know that Ridley would of used it in Alien. But the fact of the matter is, it wasn't available.
Why use something that there is no point to use, other then canon details.
Quote from: Plokoon111 on Mar 22, 2012, 03:59:23 PM
Rich. Let me ask you, do you know that flat screens and other technology that is being used in Prometheus wasn't available in the late 70's?
And if they did have that technology I know that Ridley would of used it in Alien. But the fact of the matter is, it wasn't available.
Why use something that there is no point to use, other then canon details.
i do know that, which is exactly part of my point, and which is addressed in my posts, did you read them properly?.......
flashy computer graphics were available to feature such things in alien resurrection, did they do that? er nope, why not? er because they stuck to canon and the previous look, would that work nowadays? probably not as people are used to seeing things like it every day in other sci fi movies and video games hence the need to keep up with modern tech and appeal to mass market to make big money.....
thanks
rich
Quote from: RICH-ENGLAND on Mar 22, 2012, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: wonkyfunk303 on Mar 22, 2012, 11:51:37 AM
Quote from: RICH-ENGLAND on Mar 22, 2012, 11:36:31 AM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 22, 2012, 11:18:12 AM
That linked interview is the best one I've read in regards to prometheus yet. Good find. I'm interested character ideas, motivations, choices, etc.... That interview also proves my theory about Ridley and Co. REALLY thinking about not just character in terms of personality, but what they would wear, down to their shoelaces. It tells the critics of the costume choices that they weren't just pandering, they're solid histories.
no offence but it does no such thing, how do you know that the designers didn't research mercenaries on the net and see a lot of computer game characters and decided to do the same?.
i would really like you to also explain to me why prometheus has technology far more futuristic looking than even resurrection that is set hundreds of years in the future way past prometheus?, and please do it without making excuses.
you said in the other thread that wanting an r rating disproved my theory too which was utter nonsense and youve yet to address it...
floating touch screens...
touch screens and info on cryotubes...
flashy displays on everything...
auto med table that removes thing from shaw thats not available in resurrection when they remove queen embryo from ripley...
mass effect style space suits....
theyve done a george lucas to appeal to modern generation and make it stand up when compared to modern sci fi films and games plain and simple.
thanks
rich
could it not be that the crew of the nostromo were just miners.... ie why would they have the best tech? i mean for project prometheus they are all scientists and archaelogists.... whereas with ripley and co, they were just a work horse.
as for ress.... that was a military post out of regulated space, knowing what politics are like, i doubt they would fund that kind of equipment... hence the crudeness of it all, get the job done, as cheap as possible?
whereas weyland, big company loads of money etc.. etc.. etc..
if that makes sense?
sorry mate but you dont seem to be getting my point, its very easy to sit and make up reasons why and to retcon them in your own mind to make them fit, but they arent real reasons, im talking about the real reason its been done in prometheus....
but just to answer one reason you gave, the med bed in alien resurrection is well over 200 years after prometheus, im pretty sure they could afford to have one by then, and the fact that its out of regulation space is just to cover up what its up to, no expense appears to be spared elsewhere, they appear to have built a huge ship with staff etc just exactly for the purpose of breeding the aliens, im sure an auto med bed wouldnt be missed out to save cost when it could be so useful for the mission.
thanks
rich
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 22, 2012, 11:18:12 AM
That linked interview is the best one I've read in regards to prometheus yet. Good find. I'm interested character ideas, motivations, choices, etc.... That interview also proves my theory about Ridley and Co. REALLY thinking about not just character in terms of personality, but what they would wear, down to their shoelaces. It tells the critics of the costume choices that they weren't just pandering, they're solid histories.
and just to add, i know you arent a gamer but i dont think you realise how big the gaming industry is nowadays.
about 70% pf the worlds populaition plays video games,.... thats most of the developed world.....
the average age of gamers is 33, and average age of game buyers is 40, most gamers are aged between 18 and 35
people also play at aged 65 to 70.....
http://videogames.lovetoknow.com/video-games/how-many-people-play-video-games (http://videogames.lovetoknow.com/video-games/how-many-people-play-video-games)
now taking these numbers into account, i would say that most the percentage of prometheus target audience will be gamers, i would also bet that a fair percent of the staff/film crew/designers are gamers too
also i would bet that some of the crew have also worked on games at some point as many big games have movie budgets, actors, designers etc.
now again granted that games have borrowed/stole or been influenced by the alien series but i think its also come full circle and movies are influenced by games and also try to appeal to whats in fashion.
now after seeing these numbers, if you think that no movie designers/makers get influenced by games or try to appeal to gaming audience then i think youre living in fantasy land..
thanks
rich
and???? does it really matter?? so long as the film kicks ass and isnt a flop or a letdown i shall be happy..... no point in being so nit picky!
or does fanboyism really go that in depth?
thanks
james
@wonkyfunk303
not really, but again, another one not reading posts properly and missing the points!. first up there was a thread made specifically for people to talk about minor gripes they had with the film, i explicitly stated that i didnt care too much as long as the film was good but listed a few gripes for the sake of conversation to which ThisBethesdaSea took umbridge to, so i am merely addressing those points and answering his posts, which after all, is what a forum is for right?.......
secondly, i dont remember that post being directed at you so you can feel free to carry on about your day......
and no, my fanboyism doesnt go that far, i think you should look at others for that as its not me that got upset.
thanks
rich
i wasnt getting upset, just thought it was being over analyzed.
i only offered my 2p's worth as its a solution that works for me personally and a way i can identify with the retcon going on seeing as the computers and displays in alien were so plain.... and dated...
im really looking forward to this film and hoping they dont screw it up, im also hoping it answers lots of unanswered questions from Alien, or at least gives an indication.
thanks
james
Quote from: wonkyfunk303 on Mar 22, 2012, 04:30:27 PM
i wasnt getting upset, just thought it was being over analyzed.
i only offered my 2p's worth as its a solution that works for me personally and a way i can identify with the retcon going on seeing as the computers and displays in alien were so plain.... and dated...
im really looking forward to this film and hoping they dont screw it up, im also hoping it answers lots of unanswered questions from Alien, or at least gives an indication.
thanks
james
you misunderstood, i didn't mean you were getting upset, but nvm.
and yes, we can all make reasons to retcon etc and can all think up ways to make things fit, but thats missing the whole point of mine and ThisBethesdaSeas debate.
again, im not too bothered and i understand why its been done which ive explained in my posts many times, but Bethesda doesnt agree about the real reasons behind it which is the point of our debate.
thanks
rich
The constellation shown does like the Ursa Major's six right-most stars of the Big Dipper, which is interesting.
Rather than concentrate on Ursa Major as a whole, looking at the Big Dipper shows Mizar is a binary star, just like Zeta 2 Reticuli and Merak has a confirmed planetary system. These would be the left-most and right-most stars of the formation, 78 and 79 Light Years from Earth, so both are further away from Zeta 2 Reticuli and may need Project Prometheus to reach.
Its wiki page also says that the Dipper is changing shape as it ages, so Holloway is probably pulling at it to de-age the Dipper to match with the pictogram's visuals of it?
Also, funnily enough, if one follows the handle of the Dipper, you can measure a distance to Arcturus... ::) and a little less funnier, but still applicable, Cassiopeia, as mentioned before.
Quotei would really like you to also explain to me why prometheus has technology far more futuristic looking than even resurrection that is set hundreds of years in the future way past prometheus?,
Good point. Hadn't though of that. All the screens in that look decidedly CRT.
Quote from: RICH-ENGLAND on Mar 22, 2012, 04:41:06 PM
Quote from: wonkyfunk303 on Mar 22, 2012, 04:30:27 PM
i wasnt getting upset, just thought it was being over analyzed.
i only offered my 2p's worth as its a solution that works for me personally and a way i can identify with the retcon going on seeing as the computers and displays in alien were so plain.... and dated...
im really looking forward to this film and hoping they dont screw it up, im also hoping it answers lots of unanswered questions from Alien, or at least gives an indication.
thanks
james
you misunderstood, i didn't mean you were getting upset, but nvm.
and yes, we can all make reasons to retcon etc and can all think up ways to make things fit, but thats missing the whole point of mine and ThisBethesdaSeas debate.
again, im not too bothered and i understand why its been done which ive explained in my posts many times, but Bethesda doesnt agree about the real reasons behind it which is the point of our debate.
thanks
rich
I don't think people are missing your points in every post, I think you might be missing the big picture. Scott probably adopted the aesthetics for these movies (Alien and Prometheus) based on a futuristic vision of current technologies at the time that he made them. After all, that's what sci-fi is all about, right? Just like with any visionary artist, his ideas will most likely stay relevant with the times. From his perspective, he wants to make an original piece - not an installment of something he's already done. That'd just be silly. The technologies you see in the trailers for Prometheus are pretty accurate to what we'd imagine our future being now that we're in 2012, not 1979. Try and see if from a realistic point of view rather than from that of a fan. I think that's a step we've all had to take since seeing the trailers for Prometheus.
Here it is, my opinion and perspective about why Ridley Chose a more high tech future as opposed to a low tech one. Quite frankly, looking at where we are right now in 2012 with our iPads and our phones and 3D, etc.... I believe if the larger audience were to walk in to the theater and see a decidedly low tech future I don't think it would translate as well. For the core fans I think we'd be like "kool" but because of where our collective technology is at the moment, the future of the 1970s isn't as plausible as the future of 2012....I would bet that it would even seem a bit hokey. When I watch ALIEN now, and see the crew pushing actual buttons and knowing that we're so far beyond that as a world culture, I think Ridley mad the right choice. I don't think it's about pandering to a specific tech demographic as it was just freshening up the brand. With newer tech there's more room to tell a better story. That's all I have the moment, so shoot me. ;)
One thing I noticed. Peter Weyland was born in 1990. The average life expectancy for Weyland Employees is 95 years.
1990 + 95 = 2085 (aka the year where Ridley stated Prometheus takes place). Another hint at Peter Weyland being close to death.
I don't remember people complaining when Robert Wise and the art and production designers updated the Enterprise, from the design aesthetic of what the "future" might look like to people living in the mid 60s to what the "future" might look like for people living at the end of the 70s.
By comparison, there has been an even greater span of time between the production of Alien and now Prometheus. Our technological culture has changed much more radically in the last 30 plus years, versus the time between TOS Star Trek and TMP.
I have no problem whatsoever with Ridley re-imagining the design aethetics, in light of the technological revolutions that have already occured, and extrapolating into the future.
The problems occur when you go in the other direction. Kubrick was a brilliant visionary, and simply nailed the "future-tech" that is presented in "2001: A Space Odyssey". Not only did he foresee the use of 3-D computer graphics (used in the various spacecrafts cockpits for navigation and docking), but they friggin' had flat screen displays. Heck, Poole and Bowman had iPad like devices on the Discovery. Yet, for some incomprehensible reason, in "2010: The Year We Make Contact", they have regressed to using old CRT monitors. I always hated that.
Quote from: ikarop on Mar 22, 2012, 10:42:45 PM
One thing I noticed. Peter Weyland was born in 1990. The average life expectancy for Weyland Employees is 95 years.
1990 + 95 = 2085 (aka the year where Ridley stated Prometheus takes place). Another hint at Peter Weyland being close to death.
...or that he is actually going to die in the movie. and i'm not talking about a "natural death".
I love the high-tech sci-fi visuals that we have seen of this film so far. I would hate for Ridley to copy the older more low-tech style of Alien (which is amazing for it's kind too) just for it to fit better in continuity. The "Nostromo is a mining ship" explanation is good enough for my mind. To see a modern sci-fi film set in the future with tech lower than we have now would just feel weird.
Quote from: Deuterium on Mar 22, 2012, 11:04:33 PM
I don't remember people complaining when Robert Wise and the art and production designers updated the Enterprise, from the design aesthetic of what the "future" might look like to people living in the mid 60s to what the "future" might look like for people living at the end of the 70s.
I think the griping stems from the inconsistency of Scott's reverse engineering of ALIEN's aesthetic. For example, the interiors of the ship and the screen panels are pretty damn consistent with ALIEN--the new screens may now be flat, but they have the same lo-fi look to them. It's great. And then the cliche hologram stuff comes in... throwing a wrench into an otherwise excellent keeping of continuity.
Quote
The problems occur when you go in the other direction. Kubrick was a brilliant visionary, and simply nailed the "future-tech" that is presented in "2001: A Space Odyssey". Not only did he foresee the use of 3-D computer graphics (used in the various spacecrafts cockpits for navigation and docking), but they friggin' had flat screen displays. Heck, Poole and Bowman had iPad like devices on the Discovery. Yet, for some incomprehensible reason, in "2010: The Year We Make Contact", they have regressed to using old CRT monitors. I always hated that.
Ugh,
that movie. One of the worst sequels ever. Even worse because the book was a very good, entertaining read.
I still stand by a statement I made some time ago regarding the differences in tech.
Nostromo: Industrial ship, low cost, industrial components used - Comparable to current tech CNC fabrication equipment (CRT monitors, rudimentary CLI on the unit itself).
Prometheus: Top of the line, high cost, pinnacle of development, research vessel - Thus top of the line, brand new, non-main stream equipment.
My only half-gripe now lies with holographic displays, which seems a bit inconsistent when compared with the other films in the series - but when compared along side ALIEN only - has nothing to base itself off, therefore does not effect technological continuity in my opinion. A rudimentary refinery and mining vessel has no need for anything like that.
QuoteI don't remember people complaining when Robert Wise and the art and production designers updated the Enterprise, from the design aesthetic of what the "future" might look like to people living in the mid 60s to what the "future" might look like for people living at the end of the 70s.
I'm sure some people did.
I didn't dig the new Abrams Enterprise design personally. Interiors were decent enough (despite the OH&S issues connected to eye strain from all the lens flares...)
QuoteYet, for some incomprehensible reason, in "2010: The Year We Make Contact", they have regressed to using old CRT monitors. I always hated that.
Russians couldn't afford flat screens ;D
Quote from: josh_axey on Mar 22, 2012, 11:18:49 PM
My only half-gripe now lies with holographic displays, which seems a bit inconsistent when compared with the other films in the series - but when compared along side ALIEN only - has nothing to base itself off, therefore does not effect technological continuity in my opinion. A rudimentary refinery and mining vessel has no need for anything like that.
The problem is holograms don't show up in either ALIENS or ALIEN 3. ALIEN 3 is excusable, because it's a decrepit, half-abandoned prison of all things, but the Sulaco takes place almost a century after PROMETHEUS and... no holograms, neither on Gateway Station or the Sulaco. Those damned holograms make for troubling continuity transition. Oh well. Nothing we can do now but fanwank explanations. :P
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 22, 2012, 10:26:11 PM
Here it is, my opinion and perspective about why Ridley Chose a more high tech future as opposed to a low tech one. Quite frankly, looking at where we are right now in 2012 with our iPads and our phones and 3D, etc.... I believe if the larger audience were to walk in to the theater and see a decidedly low tech future I don't think it would translate as well. For the core fans I think we'd be like "kool" but because of where our collective technology is at the moment, the future of the 1970s isn't as plausible as the future of 2012....I would bet that it would even seem a bit hokey. When I watch ALIEN now, and see the crew pushing actual buttons and knowing that we're so far beyond that as a world culture, I think Ridley mad the right choice. I don't think it's about pandering to a specific tech demographic as it was just freshening up the brand. With newer tech there's more room to tell a better story. That's all I have the moment, so shoot me. ;)
but basically this is what ive been saying all along and youve been disagreeing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but it is a certain demographic, its 18 to 30s which for the most part will be gamers and tech heads.
hes made it modern tech to appeal to a modern audience, he doesnt have a great deal of choice in it and i understand it, all ive said is that it doesnt match up. hmm, youve lost me now...
thanks
rich
Quote from: Cvalda on Mar 22, 2012, 11:09:10 PM
Quote from: Deuterium on Mar 22, 2012, 11:04:33 PM
I don't remember people complaining when Robert Wise and the art and production designers updated the Enterprise, from the design aesthetic of what the "future" might look like to people living in the mid 60s to what the "future" might look like for people living at the end of the 70s.
I think the griping stems from the inconsistency of Scott's reverse engineering of ALIEN's aesthetic. For example, the interiors of the ship and the screen panels are pretty damn consistent with ALIEN--the new screens may now be flat, but they have the same lo-fi look to them. It's great. And then the cliche hologram stuff comes in... throwing a wrench into an otherwise excellent keeping of continuity.
Quote
The problems occur when you go in the other direction. Kubrick was a brilliant visionary, and simply nailed the "future-tech" that is presented in "2001: A Space Odyssey". Not only did he foresee the use of 3-D computer graphics (used in the various spacecrafts cockpits for navigation and docking), but they friggin' had flat screen displays. Heck, Poole and Bowman had iPad like devices on the Discovery. Yet, for some incomprehensible reason, in "2010: The Year We Make Contact", they have regressed to using old CRT monitors. I always hated that.
Ugh, that movie. One of the worst sequels ever. Even worse because the book was a very good, entertaining read.
this, ive never really been into star trek tbh, but i did like the new one.
but agree with what cvalda is saying, its more to do with him fitting it in an existing timeline and reverse engineering, not rebooting which is different.
thanks
rich
Quote from: Cvalda on Mar 22, 2012, 11:29:47 PM
Quote from: josh_axey on Mar 22, 2012, 11:18:49 PM
My only half-gripe now lies with holographic displays, which seems a bit inconsistent when compared with the other films in the series - but when compared along side ALIEN only - has nothing to base itself off, therefore does not effect technological continuity in my opinion. A rudimentary refinery and mining vessel has no need for anything like that.
The problem is holograms don't show up in either ALIENS or ALIEN 3. ALIEN 3 is excusable, because it's a decrepit, half-abandoned prison of all things, but the Sulaco takes place almost a century after PROMETHEUS and... no holograms, neither on Gateway Station or the Sulaco. Those damned holograms make for troubling continuity transition. Oh well. Nothing we can do now but fanwank explanations. :P
[troll] Pretty much. Maybe they are a fad like 3D is these days and people pulled their heads out of their butts and realised this - thus removing them from any future vessels etc. :P [/troll]
Anyway.... still holding out to see what they'll put on the Module B page, points heavily to the David 8 announcement stuff. I'm sure there will be juicy tid-bits there for us to wonder over and speculate on :).
Quote from: josh_axey on Mar 23, 2012, 12:12:52 AM
Anyway.... still holding out to see what they'll put on the Module B page, points heavily to the David 8 announcement stuff. I'm sure there will be juicy tid-bits there for us to wonder over and speculate on :).
Unless it's just a link to the already available-elsewhere David 8 viral vid :P Which would not surprise me the least bit.
Imo, people are just going to have to accept that Alien was a product of its time and Prometheus will be the same. Sure the old screen technology doesn't quite fit anymore in retrospective and perhaps Ridley could have used some front projection tech and coated glass element to mimic transparent displays +30 years ago. But I guess he had enough on his hands as it was.
I'm not distracted by high tech monitors in Prometheus. Theere's enough retro-design all over the production connecting this with Alien and I couldn't ask for more. :)
Quote from: Eva on Mar 23, 2012, 12:16:29 AM
I'm not distracted by high tech monitors in Prometheus. Theere's enough retro-design all over the production connecting this with Alien and I couldn't ask for more. :)
I don't mind the new monitors--they fit well with what we see in ALIEN, with a decidedly lo-fi look to them, just flat screen as opposed to CRT. They work. It's the
holograms that are annoying. :P
Ridley also wanted flat screen, clipped monitors for Alien. They couldn't make 'em. Yeah, the holograms annoy, but only because I'm a stickler for consistency. I guess the Sulaco and the USCM were undergoing budget cuts (/endfanwank)
The majority of people who go to see this film may have never even watched an Alien film. Seeing a "retro" looking ship with no explanation and decidedly anachronistic technology would be distracting and undermine the realism and plausibility.
The original Nostromo was not a fantastical design, it appeared very functional at least in context with the time period it was made. There was also a guy walking around in a rubber monster suit without CGI effects, which may end up looking low-tech or inconsistent with what we are shown in Prometheus as far as creature design. I wouldn't expect the filmmakers to solely use rubber suit monsters or Alien puppets in order to maintain continuity.
Quote from: Cvalda on Mar 22, 2012, 11:29:47 PM
Quote from: josh_axey on Mar 22, 2012, 11:18:49 PM
My only half-gripe now lies with holographic displays, which seems a bit inconsistent when compared with the other films in the series - but when compared along side ALIEN only - has nothing to base itself off, therefore does not effect technological continuity in my opinion. A rudimentary refinery and mining vessel has no need for anything like that.
The problem is holograms don't show up in either ALIENS or ALIEN 3. ALIEN 3 is excusable, because it's a decrepit, half-abandoned prison of all things, but the Sulaco takes place almost a century after PROMETHEUS and... no holograms, neither on Gateway Station or the Sulaco. Those damned holograms make for troubling continuity transition. Oh well. Nothing we can do now but fanwank explanations. :P
Um.. in the special edition of Aliens there is basically "holodeck" technology creating that virtual park where Ripley is sitting while waiting for Burke.
^ It is pretty, pretty low-fi though... Very low-fi...
Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 23, 2012, 12:52:58 AM
^ It is pretty, pretty low-fi though... Very low-fi...
Yeah.
I always took it for a simple projector that was displaying a calming image on the white wall (obviously this was the practical effect) - and never took much more than that away from it tech wise. They are trying to retrofit it in the Weyland time line, with one of those points on it - but yeah... I never took it to be hi-tech.
Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 23, 2012, 12:24:11 AM
I guess the Sulaco and the USCM were undergoing budget cuts (/endfanwank)
I am not convinced. Fanwank harder! >:(
:P
Quote from: Cvalda on Mar 23, 2012, 01:09:32 AM
Fanwank harder! >:(
:P
My brain can't help but see innuendo. I should go to bed :P
QuoteUm.. in the special edition of Aliens there is basically "holodeck" technology creating that virtual park where Ripley is sitting while waiting for Burke.
It's not a holodeck - it's a projection screen. We could do that now.
I don't believe that ALIENS, ALIEN3 or ALIEN : Resurrection showed enough of their tech for us to judge whether or not Prometheus is too advanced. There was no opportunity to see any of it. There was a computer screen and a bio-scan in 3, and I don't remember seeing any sort of consoles in ALIENS or AR.
The Prometheus is a science vessel, uniquely equipped for research and observation. As such it makes plausible sense that the tech were seeing had no opportunity to be shown in any of the films. This is a different story, and a different mission. I don't think that's too hard of a stretch.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 23, 2012, 01:48:09 AM
I don't believe that ALIENS, ALIEN3 or ALIEN : Resurrection showed enough of their tech for us to judge whether or not Prometheus is too advanced. There was no opportunity to see any of it. There was a computer screen and a bio-scan in 3, and I don't remember seeing any sort of consoles in ALIENS or AR.
We saw
plenty of it. Hell, in ALIENS we even saw a vid-table like the one in the Prometheus' control room--but whereas almost a century later, it is 2D, the one in Prometheus has a fancy holographic interface. Face it: fans will just have to fanwank some sort of explanation that fits.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.robf.com.au%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F12%2FAliens-A2S7-screens.png&hash=ccbed335552187bfd82799e3d59af19391020ff4)
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 23, 2012, 01:48:09 AM
I don't believe that ALIENS, ALIEN3 or ALIEN : Resurrection showed enough of their tech for us to judge whether or not Prometheus is too advanced. There was no opportunity to see any of it. There was a computer screen and a bio-scan in 3, and I don't remember seeing any sort of consoles in ALIENS or AR.
Well,
Aliens seemed like the biggest opportunity to show off its tech. With the Colonial Marines and all the gear they were packing. Motion censors, smart guns, and robotic mechs and tracking devices etc.
Quote from: SM on Mar 23, 2012, 01:57:05 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.robf.com.au%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F12%2FAliens-A2S7-screens.png&hash=ccbed335552187bfd82799e3d59af19391020ff4)
At least Scott kept a dim, CRT look for the onboard monitors on Prometheus:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi44.tinypic.com%2F2mnq0d0.png&hash=e8422fffdd9dc4b947b0b0c6a8ce4db08a82f715)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg29.imageshack.us%2Fimg29%2F8065%2Fvlcsnap2012031922h49m38.png&hash=e709e9135dea4eefbc885029da35904775a7ec5d)
I love this shot, it reminds me of the low lit environment on the Nostromo bridge.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1175.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr623%2FPunisher616%2Fnostromobridge.jpg&hash=99d8eb303fe90df64ee6f41af84452d5be71941b)
One thing I did dig was they seem to have drawn on Ron Cobb's 'Californian' bridge design...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.portlandmercury.com%2Fimages%2Fblogimages%2F2011%2F01%2F17%2F1295288474-nostromobridge.jpg&hash=66ce1d69bed080aadf1d1b9930fe57932e9e6805)
That thing in the Ampule was green in the teaser and black in the theatrical one. Hmmmmm.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 23, 2012, 03:19:38 AM
That thing in the Ampule was green in the teaser and black in the theatrical one. Hmmmmm.
Maybe that "spine" inside it was a spoiler they sought to correct. Hmm indeed.
Has anybody also noticed, that in Fact Sheet module on Investor information page SIR PETER WEYLAND is still written as the Company CEO in 2073, so he is still alive at that time (and even confered with a honourary title) and is even capable to rule the company? If so, I think his presence in the film confirmed!
Quote from: aliennaire on Mar 23, 2012, 02:38:13 PM
Has anybody also noticed, that in Fact Sheet module on Investor information page SIR PETER WEYLAND is still written as the Company CEO in 2073, so he is still alive at that time (and even confered with a honourary title) and is even capable to rule the company? If so, I think his presence in the film confirmed!
Well, Ridley already confirmed that last week :P
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 23, 2012, 03:19:38 AM
That thing in the Ampule was green in the teaser and black in the theatrical one. Hmmmmm.
Still green underneath the black goo.
Probably some sort of shock absorber liquid.
That is some nice last minute addition thinking.
Quote from: Cvalda on Mar 23, 2012, 01:54:26 AM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 23, 2012, 01:48:09 AM
I don't believe that ALIENS, ALIEN3 or ALIEN : Resurrection showed enough of their tech for us to judge whether or not Prometheus is too advanced. There was no opportunity to see any of it. There was a computer screen and a bio-scan in 3, and I don't remember seeing any sort of consoles in ALIENS or AR.
We saw plenty of it. Hell, in ALIENS we even saw a vid-table like the one in the Prometheus' control room--but whereas almost a century later, it is 2D, the one in Prometheus has a fancy holographic interface. Face it: fans will just have to fanwank some sort of explanation that fits.
how about this for a ''fanwank'' , ALIEN was made in the 70s......( think about that for a min or 2 )..........
Prometheus was made in 2010-2012......( take another min or 2 ).............
........ok so im assuming you have a fair grasp on the concept im throwing at you , i know its probably alot for you to have to proccess so im gonna wait another min or 2 before i proceed to a point that has been put down before............
now before you see the piks i am posting just take a few breaths because i know this is gonna be a hard pill for you to swallow
Quote from: Eagle-Fire on Mar 23, 2012, 04:09:26 PM
how about this for a ''fanwank'' , ALIEN was made in the 70s......( think about that for a min or 2 )..........
Prometheus was made in 2010-2012......( take another min or 2 ).............
........ok so im assuming you have a fair grasp on the concept im throwing at you , i know its probably alot for you to have to proccess so im gonna wait another min or 2 before i proceed to a point that has been put down before............
now before you see the piks i am posting just take a few breaths because i know this is gonna be a hard pill for you to swallow
Actually, with all respect Eagle-Fire...I am not quite sure what the point is you are trying to make. The shuttle was designed in the early / mid 70's. The original shuttles did not feature "glass cockpits" (flat panel displays, touch screens, etc.). They were upgraded and retrofitted from their original equipment -- the original cockpits featured CRT displays, and electromechanical gauges. I believe Shuttle Atlantis was the first to be retrofitted...sometime in the early 2000s.
In any event, can you expand on your previous post.
I assert again....it would be LUDICROUS if Ridley and Company made a decidedly low-tech Science Fiction film. SCI-FI is about what's possible, not what's continuous from another film. Again, the criticism thrown at Prometheus for being in essence to -sci-fi is ridiculous.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 23, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
I assert again....it would be LUDICROUS if Ridley and Company made a decidedly low-tech Science Fiction film. SCI-FI is about what's possible, not what's continuous from another film. Again, the criticism thrown at Prometheus for being in essence to -sci-fi is ridiculous.
Absolutely agree. But I am confused by your last sentence (highlighted in bold). Can you re-word?
I always go back to the target audience...
As much as guys like me (45) or older WANT to think this movie is JUST for us...it's not.
I also think that if the trailer is somewhat chronological, which most people assume (although often times not true)...Prometheus moves from bright and colorful to dark and foreboding.
From the standpoint of what attracts a wider audience, this would seem to be logical...get them with the flashy visuals...but KEEP them with the story.
I also suspect that the direct line from Prometheus to Alien, as so many of us wonder about...does need to go through ANOTHER film to be completed.
I can imagine a scenario where the technology onboard Prometheus is 'one of a kind' and once the ship is destroyed (only guessing that it is)...replication of many of these things is not possible or perhaps because of the outcome of this journey certain things are no longer allowed...feeding back into the idea that playing God is not allowed.
In any case, as much as I accept the idea that Ridley offers -- tech we see in Prometheus is that way because of the type of vessel...science versus the mining ship in Alien -- I think he would also find a way to make this new film follow logically into Alien...either by itself or with another installment...and that would require some kind of backward step in our approach to being 'creators'.
One thing is clear...to keep things consistent...we somehow need to go from David to Ash...and in the case of Ash, we have a synthetic that is not recognized by look, behavior or type...and this does seem to somewhat contradict what I said above about 'creators'.
Quote from: Valaquen on Mar 23, 2012, 02:47:21 PM
Quote from: aliennaire on Mar 23, 2012, 02:38:13 PM
Has anybody also noticed, that in Fact Sheet module on Investor information page SIR PETER WEYLAND is still written as the Company CEO in 2073, so he is still alive at that time (and even confered with a honourary title) and is even capable to rule the company? If so, I think his presence in the film confirmed!
Well, Ridley already confirmed that last week :P
Yes... though, the phrase he used to outline Weyland confused me: "by that time he isn't slightly an older man", which really made me think of some
special Weyland's condition like being cryo-frozen or physically dead, but maintaining communication with the World of living over that spiritual patented device, they invented. My head is whirling ;D
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 23, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
I assert again....it would be LUDICROUS if Ridley and Company made a decidedly low-tech Science Fiction film. SCI-FI is about what's possible, not what's continuous from another film. Again, the criticism thrown at Prometheus for being in essence to -sci-fi is ridiculous.
It's all okey with me, while it's good sci fi story I can skip some differences in design and newer look of equipment.
Quote from: Deuterium on Mar 23, 2012, 04:49:39 PM
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Mar 23, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
I assert again....it would be LUDICROUS if Ridley and Company made a decidedly low-tech Science Fiction film. SCI-FI is about what's possible, not what's continuous from another film. Again, the criticism thrown at Prometheus for being in essence to -sci-fi is ridiculous.
Absolutely agree. But I am confused by your last sentence (highlighted in bold). Can you re-word?
too sci fi?..
Eagle-Fire, looking at your pic just made me scream "My god it's full of... lights" ;D ;D ;D I wish I would take an excursion in there someday. But also, as
Deuterium said before, I can't grasp what this pic was here to demonstrate?
I don't think Weyland is portrayed as some senile, old fossil 2 inches from death in Prometheus, just becuase he's presumably seen in a wheelchair at some time.
The viral website mentions an average lifespan of +90 years for men when Prometheus is talking place. Peter Weyland is what - in his 70s/80s - not much older than Sir Ridley himself right now and he's alive and kicking, even with a dodgy leg.
My instinct is that Weyland is part of this journey because there's nothing left for him to achieve on Earth. If our makers or Gods are indeed within our reach, I would want to meet them face to face as well before I leave this world, if I had the chance.
Im sorry, the pics i posted were
01. The control station for an oil rig
02. The cockpit of a space shuttle
03. The loading bays of military battleships
All from around the same time period ( give or take 10-25 years).
Not all my pics got posted and i could not work out why lolz
I actually think the prometheus itself is a very real-world looking spacecraft with very sci-fi-ish interior ( holograms et etc) , were as the nostromo looks to be very sci-fi-ish and otherworldy with very real-world looking interior
Im guessing...........(lol)............the tech in the prometheus(3d scanners, holograms etc etc) is all automated by the time ships like the nostromo were put into service i.e the nostromo's mother board does all of that for the crew........kinda like the difference between an aticus and a calculator :)
Quote from: Eagle-Fire on Mar 23, 2012, 06:58:56 PM
Im sorry, the pics i posted were
01. The control station for an oil rig
02. The cockpit of a space shuttle
03. The loading bays of military battleships
All from around the same time period ( give or take 10-25 years).
Not all my pics got posted and i could not work out why lolz
I actually think the prometheus itself is a very real-world looking spacecraft with very sci-fi-ish interior ( holograms et etc) , were as the nostromo looks to be very sci-fi-ish and otherworldy with very real-world looking interior
Im guessing...........(lol)............the tech in the prometheus(3d scanners, holograms etc etc) is all automated by the time ships like the nostromo were put into service i.e the nostromo's mother board does all of that for the crew........kinda like the difference between an aticus and a calculator :)
Ahh...thanks for the clarification. Now I can understand what you were trying to say.
Quote from: icedog97 on Mar 23, 2012, 04:58:55 PM
I always go back to the target audience...
As much as guys like me (45) or older WANT to think this movie is JUST for us...it's not.
I also think that if the trailer is somewhat chronological, which most people assume (although often times not true)...Prometheus moves from bright and colorful to dark and foreboding.
From the standpoint of what attracts a wider audience, this would seem to be logical...get them with the flashy visuals...but KEEP them with the story.
I also suspect that the direct line from Prometheus to Alien, as so many of us wonder about...does need to go through ANOTHER film to be completed.
I can imagine a scenario where the technology onboard Prometheus is 'one of a kind' and once the ship is destroyed (only guessing that it is)...replication of many of these things is not possible or perhaps because of the outcome of this journey certain things are no longer allowed...feeding back into the idea that playing God is not allowed.
In any case, as much as I accept the idea that Ridley offers -- tech we see in Prometheus is that way because of the type of vessel...science versus the mining ship in Alien -- I think he would also find a way to make this new film follow logically into Alien...either by itself or with another installment...and that would require some kind of backward step in our approach to being 'creators'.
One thing is clear...to keep things consistent...we somehow need to go from David to Ash...and in the case of Ash, we have a synthetic that is not recognized by look, behavior or type...and this does seem to somewhat contradict what I said above about 'creators'.
is ash a one of a kind? Built to infiltrate as a real human ? If there was a common "ash" model on earth surely the crew of the nostromo would have known he was a robot ??
Just some thoughts :)
Quote from: Eagle-Fire on Mar 23, 2012, 07:04:58 PM
Quote from: icedog97 on Mar 23, 2012, 04:58:55 PM
I always go back to the target audience...
is ash a one of a kind? Built to infiltrate as a real human ? If there was a common "ash" model on earth surely the crew of the nostromo would have known he was a robot ??
Just some thoughts :)
I dont know but theres a lot of guys working in security that LOOK a hell of a lot like Ash, but they cant be androids as no androids work in security.....