What if this game exceeded expectations for reasons due to an insanely popular gameplay mechanic and people loved the game and made a tremendous amount of money superceding something like Arkham City. What would happen?
Would there be a sequel to this game based on those gameplay mechanics and build a healthy business strategy for years and years?
or Would people just get plain bored with it?
I ask this, because IMHO, this game has the most authentic vision (the Alien design is the best I've seen) albeit some Engine quality flaws and trivial mechanics exist in this game, which could easily be accounted for. But ultimately if time and money were there, would it be worth the investment or would it just be wasted opportunity?
Because with FOX money, they expect nothing in return for a franchise like this. It's not a yearly game (football Nfl) and it's not a studio based baby like Mass effect. This is basically any silly old game company that was open to getting funding and a work for hire situation like it was already (I can tell that any creative license would be at their own expense). Any success after release would not be in their pockets (but in FOX's so to speak)...
My thought is that these types of games could have a potential, but is rarely ever met due to these circumstance.
What are your thoughts on this aspect of the gaming industry? This is not a hate on Randy rant, please voice your opinions on the logics of this conversation and not that you hate Randys face or something. If you want to exploit the hate, view the Randy Pitchfork public apology parody thread.
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 12, 2018, 07:23:53 PM
If you want to exploit the hate, view the Randy Pitchfork public apology parody thread.
:laugh:
Not worth talking about, in terms of an authentic vision Alien Isolation did it better and with more respect, in every respect.
I'd rather speculate on the future than "what if" the past, especially ACM.
I think age factors into it. Waaay back when, the first split in the Aliens fandom came in 1991 with A3 killing the established direction J. Cameron was seemingly taking the franchise in. I remember feeling pretty let down that everything I thought was "cool" about the franchise (the space marines, the guns, the heroic male characters) had been erased and replaced by just Ripley's hellish isolation tragedy opera.
A:CM aimed to fill that hole by offering an alternative sequel than A3 was. Opinion on how it played may have been divided (though the Templar GfX mod changes the gameplay completely), but personally I loved the script as it put me straight back in 1987-89 with the sequel to Aliens we should have had.
I can imagine that people like me love it for the overall 80's plot. But if I was a kid used to modern, polished, call of duty, Battlefield type games which are genuinely FUN to play, and not having lived through the backstory of the 80's, I would probably not care much for A:CM.
Had A:CM been a lot more polished with much better gameplay, and gotten more traction, I think the franchise would have been a lot more of that dark 80's corporate scheming, Earthbound, don't know who you can trust, corporate types screwing each other over for a dollar, with Xenomorphs running around (like the awesome comics really).
For sure we wouldn't have had the current idiocy that an angry android CREATED the xenomorph in a bout of narscissism and fit of mental masturbation.
Cameron had no direction to take it in. He never had any intention of doing another Alien film.
And the script for A:CM, while also being excrutiating, bore very little resemblance to the film upon which it's based with all that "oorah to ashes" nonsense.
If it'd been successful, it would've spawned a sequel and we probably would've got more from that crappy "we got everything" ending. Maybe they would've gone back for the marines on LV-426 like Cruz said instead of just flying off into space.
Quote from: SM on Aug 15, 2018, 08:58:19 PM
Cameron had no direction to take it in. He never had any intention of doing another Alien film.
And the script for A:CM, while also being excrutiating, bore very little resemblance to the film upon which it's based with all that "oorah to ashes" nonsense.
If it'd been successful, it would've spawned a sequel and we probably would've got more from that crappy "we got everything" ending. Maybe they would've gone back for the marines on LV-426 like Cruz said instead of just flying off into space.
As a fan of the franchise I disagree with almost everything you've said.
Cameron did take in in that direction for another director to continue (or not as the case was with Fincher). I happen to think that the script of A:CM was actually rather good considering all the other storylines (Aliens 1986, TM) it bridged over. Some of the dialog I'll agree with you, was over the top, but that suits it in a way. Being over the top, with the massive guns Marine boasting and the continual Xenomorph blasting. Reminded me of Hudson in a way. Which is what he was. Just a regular one of those "oorah to ashes" privates.
I guess you think it sucks, but other people may have a different opinion than you.
Of course they do. There's not many of them, but they certainly exist.
As I've said elsewhere, video game storylines from my perspective are often little more than excuses for the shooting to start and as such it's not something I'm generally critical of.
A:CM, however, utterly failed in terms of its story, script and performance. Reid asks what the Sulaco is doing back at LV-426, Cruz says 'We don't know'. Don't expect an answer with the flight recorder lost in the dumbest of circumstances.
All that 'Rhino' and 'Actual' stuff didn't fit the tone of the film. Neumann should've studied the language used in the source material. The single good bit of dialogue is when Hicks shoots Weyland and he says 'when you spend all that time in the same room you notice when a guy ain't breathing'. Of course it's also incorrect since David, Ash and Bishop all 'breathe' (and I suspect Walter does too), but it was a good line.
The list of faults with game is astoundingly long and not worth going over again now.
Quote from: SM on Aug 16, 2018, 01:43:14 AM
The list of faults with game is astoundingly long and not worth going over again now.
Superman 64 had more thought and effort put into it.
I daresay the Aliens game by Activision that also had you flying through rings would give A:CM a run for its money. ;D
Quote from: SM on Aug 15, 2018, 08:58:19 PM
And the script for A:CM, while also being excrutiating, bore very little resemblance to the film upon which it's based with all that "oorah to ashes" nonsense.
I suspect a lot of that dialogue was to cater to the then-popular Call of Duty crowd - play any CoD game's campaign from the last, like, 9 years and the dialogue is riddled with "Rhino Actual"-esque dialogue. From a gameplay perspective, it's also probably why A:CM had weapon mods and attachments (ironically I felt A:CM actually executed it better than most CoD games do).
What's the point of "authenticity" if it can't even do atmosphere, tension or fear properly? ALIENS is a great movie because it has all those things, and they are also crucial aspects for making great Alien/s games. Earlier games in the franchise, like Alien Trilogy, Resurrection, AvP, had nigh on no story apart from text or silly little FMV's, but all those game still trump A:CM simply because they properly thrill you by portraying the right atmosphere and mood.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 16, 2018, 07:01:50 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 15, 2018, 08:58:19 PM
And the script for A:CM, while also being excrutiating, bore very little resemblance to the film upon which it's based with all that "oorah to ashes" nonsense.
I suspect a lot of that dialogue was to cater to the then-popular Call of Duty crowd - play any CoD game's campaign from the last, like, 9 years and the dialogue is riddled with "Rhino Actual"-esque dialogue. From a gameplay perspective, it's also probably why A:CM had weapon mods and attachments (ironically I felt A:CM actually executed it better than most CoD games do).
I think it was also partly due to the Hudson "ultimate badass" speech onboard the APC in Aliens (1986).
I think if this game embodies anything it's that single speech. Not much sneaking, not much stealth. Just massive guns and kill everything. It gave you a glimpse into Hudson's world, had they landed on LV426 with an entire Marine battalion.
In a way this game was the antithesis of Alien3. Just Aliens (1986) dialled up to 11. A game like Alien: Isolation (for me) perfectly embodies Alien 1 and Alien 3 for example.
Also the A:CM game expanded upon the ideas and concepts set in the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual released in the mid 90's. I believe all the weapons are from that if I'm not mistaken, atleast some are. Here are some example pages.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-UNT0QO_dIZE%2FUE8v08EbDGI%2FAAAAAAAAJt8%2FXJoswRzAb0g%2Fs1600%2F12-05-24-AliensTechnialManul1-533x410.jpg&hash=9fb0277b1f8246871ae2a7d2ff0625c44b368292)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage-7.verycd.com%2F88ce7256b3623cac0ca11e451aef8b97145195%28600x%29%2Fthumb.jpg&hash=345ffa1a1f8d295f3bc56db22903d1a0aa710927)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2F28anhg3.jpg&hash=5ff9ecb5f8dfdb159026729235b6242b270b82cf)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcoven.com%2Fwp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2Faliens-space-combat.png&hash=3a83028d11c39da2cbd3c9e4c27b314511ea238b)
But A3 & Isolation weren't Alien dialled up to 11, they were respectful and artful expansions on the original.
ACM is anything but.
In Aliens 1986 the whole point is to turn Hudson's perspective on it's head; not to reinforce it.
ACM completely misinterprets everything Aliens is, as many of it's fans do.
You should go play ACM.
Quote from: The Old One on Aug 25, 2018, 01:41:01 AM
But A3 & Isolation weren't Alien dialled up to 11, they were respectful and artful expansions on the original.
ACM is anything but.
In Aliens 1986 the whole point is to turn Hudson's perspective on it's head; not to reinforce it.
ACM completely misinterprets every Aliens is, as many of it's fans do.
To be fair, ACM does show the Marines getting steamrolled by the Aliens even when they bring a shitload of Marines and even more guns and stuff to the table.
QuoteI think it was also partly due to the Hudson "ultimate badass" speech onboard the APC in Aliens (1986).
Problem is though - none of the dialogue in the game put me in mind of anything from the film. Including Hudson's speech.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 25, 2018, 08:00:46 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Aug 25, 2018, 01:41:01 AM
But A3 & Isolation weren't Alien dialled up to 11, they were respectful and artful expansions on the original.
ACM is anything but.
In Aliens 1986 the whole point is to turn Hudson's perspective on it's head; not to reinforce it.
ACM completely misinterprets every Aliens is, as many of it's fans do.
To be fair, ACM does show the Marines getting steamrolled by the Aliens even when they bring a shitload of Marines and even more guns and stuff to the table.
The Aliens are supposed to be the ultimate threat but the W-Y commandos are more of a problem than they are and they seem to be the main enemies really, since you encounter them far more.
Ultimate badass mode was also quite easy.
The game relied too much on homages and nostalgia. They didn't even get that right either.
Quote from: The Old One on Aug 25, 2018, 01:41:01 AM
But A3 & Isolation weren't Alien dialled up to 11, they were respectful and artful expansions on the original.
ACM is anything but.
In Aliens 1986 the whole point is to turn Hudson's perspective on it's head; not to reinforce it.
ACM completely misinterprets everything Aliens is, as many of it's fans do.
Oh I understand perfectly well that Cameron's concept in A2 was to contrast and illustrate the tragic shortcomings of technologically superior arrogance when faced with low-fi resilience (i.e. the Vietnam war). Conceptually identical to his Avatar films.
I understand that.
But in my opinion ACM just chose to not focus too heavily on that contrast and simply created a gung-ho marine shooter. It showed us that futuristic, way overconfident, boastful and arrogant USMC world Hudson came from. Which I appreciate.
I mean this is straight out of a Hudson fantasy :) :
Right click, open image in new tab for the full carnage.
(https://i.imgur.com/eKSe6sv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dCYZQWO.jpg)
And in that world, we have marines that sabotage each other left and right... :P
Keyes destroying the dropship. Keyes killing at least one marine by detonating a grenade in an umbilical. (and losing the flight recorder which Keyes disobeyed orders to get in the first place)
Quote from: The Cruentus on Aug 25, 2018, 11:18:03 PM
And in that world, we have marines that sabotage each other left and right... :P
Keyes destroying the dropship. Keyes killing at least one marine by detonating a grenade in an umbilical. (and losing the flight recorder which Keyes disobeyed orders to get in the first place)
Yep, they are unlikeable, jock a$$**les, overconfident through superior firepower, pretending to be boastful and tough on the outside but when push comes to shove we see that they are weak minded and only care about themselves, not others. Kind of like Hudson was portrayed.
When push came to shove Hudson stood his ground and fought for his friends.
Quote from: gold on Aug 26, 2018, 05:22:27 AM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Aug 25, 2018, 11:18:03 PM
And in that world, we have marines that sabotage each other left and right... :P
Keyes destroying the dropship. Keyes killing at least one marine by detonating a grenade in an umbilical. (and losing the flight recorder which Keyes disobeyed orders to get in the first place)
Yep, they are unlikeable, jock a$$**les, overconfident through superior firepower, pretending to be boastful and tough on the outside but when push comes to shove we see that they are weak minded and only care about themselves, not others. Kind of like Hudson was portrayed.
I wasn't praising or agreeing with it gold, my comment was about how idiotic the game portrays the marines. The movie has their superior technology fail them but other than a few accidents, they didn't kill each other or sabotage one another out of sheer stupidity or selfishness. And as SM said, Hudson proved his worth in the end.
A:CM is just taking things over the top with their antics.
Quote from: SM on Aug 26, 2018, 09:55:02 AM
When push came to shove Hudson stood his ground and fought for his friends.
Wasn't like he had a choice ;)
Quote from: gold on Aug 26, 2018, 09:31:56 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 26, 2018, 09:55:02 AM
When push came to shove Hudson stood his ground and fought for his friends.
Wasn't like he had a choice ;)
I don't mean to belittle Hudson's abilities, but he was riding a fear/combat high. He was finally face to face with what had been scaring him to death. Instincts kicked in, and his body did what it had to do. Hence the "you want some of this" talk he was throwing out.
Quote from: gold on Aug 26, 2018, 09:31:56 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 26, 2018, 09:55:02 AM
When push came to shove Hudson stood his ground and fought for his friends.
Wasn't like he had a choice ;)
Of course he had a choice. He could've bolted to medical like Burke did.
Quote from: SM on Aug 26, 2018, 09:53:37 PM
Quote from: gold on Aug 26, 2018, 09:31:56 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 26, 2018, 09:55:02 AM
When push came to shove Hudson stood his ground and fought for his friends.
Wasn't like he had a choice ;)
Of course he had a choice. He could've bolted to medical like Burke did.
I don't think he could have. Nobody was as scared as Hudson. Not even Burke. Burke also had a protective layer of Marines between him and the danger, the possibility of escape felt real and plausible to him. Flight was an option.
Not so for Hudson. He was either going to lock-up completely, or go full-on fight response. He went from scared to death, to "there they are! Come get some Mother***!". I've personally experienced both kinds of responses. You're so frightened, there is no running away. You either lock up, or go wild. Hudson went wild.
The guy who said they were f**ked repeatedly, and flat out refused to go to the uplink tower before anyone even asked him wouldn't run? Yeah, nah.
I always wondered how much ammo Hudson had left after overkilling that facehugger in medlab.
Enough for his last stant at least but if he had survived past that point, he might have run out in the maintenance shaft.
Vasquez did, but she seemed to be a tad more economical.
She really stretched her 50 rounds a long way. I wonder why none of them bothered using the flamethrower during the fight.
I am not sure if any of them had the flamethrower on their person during the shaft chases, also only the last person in the group would have been able to safely use it, and in such a confined space is no guarantee that of either.
Gorman started out with it in the script, then Ripley swapped him for the pulse rifle. As depicted in Newt's Tale.
Too bad Gorman didn't use it instead of his sidearm. The flamethrower may have actually done some good against the aliens during the fight, if only by dissuading them from pressing their attack.
Don't forget that Vasquez was the one that was last and Gorman went back for her, so even if he could drag her and use the flamethrower, he would still have been slow enough for the Aliens to come from the front via a vent in the floor of the shaft, like they did in the movie. So they still would have surrounded and using the flamethower to successfully kill a xeno would mean trying to navigate through burning corpses. I don't know how much difference it would make, I mean they are scared of fire but they were also relentless.
I meant during the initial fight in medlab, not their retreat through the air ducts.
It would have probably kept some of them at bay but the Aliens were coming from the back as well, as Burke was killed by the warrior when he fled.
The flamethrower was only half full too so it's effectiveness was limited beyond keeping Aliens back.
In the script Ripley fires it over vents and around corners to clear a path.
That probably would have slowed the movie down.