How about an Alien anthology film composed by several short stories (unrelated or linked), each one being directed by a different director. For example:
Segment l: Aliens vs Marines (directed by James Cameron).
Segment ll: Xenomorph Experiments (directed by Neill Blomkamp).
Segment lll: Research on Space Jockey Tech (Directed by David Cronenberg).
Segment lV: Blade Runner-like story on Earth (directed by Ridley Scott).
(https://i.imgur.com/tI5RzOm.jpg)
Not really keen on short stories. I rather have full movies.
I'd be down for that.
Maybe not an anthology film but I'm all over the idea of more "stories", even if they are shorter format. It's one of the reasons I'm quite looking forward to seeing how these new Tongal pieces.
This would be a great Netflix series set in the Universe
Oh wait it would be on Disney+ lol
I think the problem with the Alien Universe is that everyone expect to have Aliens in it. But there is a lot more in this universe. The aspect of space traveling, space mining, colonisation is always a good thing to explore in films. I love movies they explore deep space. But sadly, they are very rar. It would be nice to have some movies set in the alien universe, but without aliens in it and it would be nice they would not make a big deal, that they are set in the alien universe.
So Prometheus, but well-written.
With a hint of...
(https://i.imgur.com/ZOfIgo5.jpg)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 09, 2018, 08:27:23 AM
Maybe not an anthology film but I'm all over the idea of more "stories", even if they are shorter format. It's one of the reasons I'm quite looking forward to seeing how these new Tongal pieces.
It can be developed as an anthology TV series, like HBO's True Detective (https://www.hbo.com/true-detective) or Syfy's Channel Zero (https://www.syfy.com/channelzerothedreamdoor).
Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Nov 09, 2018, 12:28:13 PM
This would be a great Netflix series set in the Universe
Oh wait it would be on Disney+ lol
I don't know whether to laugh or cry :D
Short stories sound too much like a death sentence for alien. As if no one can come up with enough material for a full movie. Especially when directed by A-list directors. Nah save such an idea for fans, small independent studios or try a tv series.
However I'm not against the anthology concept. There are movies to be told that have nothing to do with Alien inside of the Alien Universe.
There are 3 seasons in True Detective so far, each season with 8 episodes of an hour or so. That is more than a movie for sure. Oh, and each season is a separate story from the other. But aye, maybe it is not the best format for the Alien. I'm guessing or something. However, if it is done with the level of Game of Thrones, other bird will sing.
Just jumping in here on this thread. Hi.
"Solo de pasada por este hilo. Hola."
However, the literal translation would be "Solo saltando aqui en este hilo. Hola.
The first one sound less dumb for sure, so I'll stick with that one. ;)
Isn't there something in production at Fox? I think they are supporting some fan movie shorts they pick from over hundred pitch ideas. Does any one know the status on this project?
QuoteI think the problem with the Alien Universe is that everyone expect to have Aliens in it.
The title is a bit of a giveaway.
Alien implies the presence of something foreign, you can do lots with that in Ridley Scott's universe without the necessity of Giger's monster.
Quote from: SM on Nov 11, 2018, 10:00:51 AM
QuoteI think the problem with the Alien Universe is that everyone expect to have Aliens in it.
The title is a bit of a giveaway.
Lol
Quote from: The Old One on Nov 11, 2018, 12:25:15 PM
Alien implies the presence of something foreign, you can do lots with that in Ridley Scott's universe without the necessity of Giger's monster.
True, but if we're being 100% honest with ourselves...
And yet, Prometheus (a film without the Alien) was successful compared to Covenant (a film with the Alien).
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 11, 2018, 03:19:27 PM
And yet, Prometheus (a film without the Alien) was successful compared to Covenant (a film with the Alien).
Though neither was it called Alien.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 11, 2018, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 11, 2018, 03:19:27 PM
And yet, Prometheus (a film without the Alien) was successful compared to Covenant (a film with the Alien).
Though neither was it called Alien.
Alien: Covenant actually, and the Alien itself was in the poster of the film. Alien Isolation, despite being a game, is far more memorable than Covy.
Yes, let us pretend the 'Alien' in the title isn't synonymous with Gigers creation. ::)
Nobody said otherwise, and definitely that wasn't the point either. :-\
Covenand should have be a movie without the classic alien. I'm very sure I would have enjoyed that film much more then Prometheus. It is sad, that the expanse universe without the alien by Ridley Scott failed so much with covenant. But Im still belive, that it could still work.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 11, 2018, 05:30:10 PM
Nobody said otherwise, and definitely that wasn't the point either. :-\
Quote from: SM on Nov 11, 2018, 10:00:51 AM
QuoteI think the problem with the Alien Universe is that everyone expect to have Aliens in it.
The title is a bit of a giveaway.
Quote from: The Old One on Nov 11, 2018, 12:25:15 PM
Alien implies the presence of something foreign, you can do lots with that in Ridley Scott's universe without the necessity of Giger's monster.
Guess I should have specified I wasnt really replying to your post. :-\
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 11, 2018, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 11, 2018, 03:19:27 PM
And yet, Prometheus (a film without the Alien) was successful compared to Covenant (a film with the Alien).
Though neither was it called Alien.
And one of the complaints about Ridley Scott returning to the Alien universe was that there wasn't an Aliens in it.
People complain about the Queen in Aliens too, or the design changes in Aliens. Strange Shapes explores that pretty well.
It's not a criticism that should've carried any weight.
The characters being brain-dead, nonsensical editing and writing should have.
Thanks for splaining what people can and can't be critical of. We wouldn't want to have to think for ourselves.
Quote from: The Old One on Nov 11, 2018, 12:25:15 PM
Alien implies the presence of something foreign, you can do lots with that in Ridley Scott's universe without the necessity of Giger's monster.
Alien implies the Alien. You can't expect people to ignore 40 years of material linking the two.
You could make interesting movies in the Predator universe without the Predator - the title only implies a carnivorous animal attacking prey! It takes place in present day, with plenty of interesting dramas and conflicts happening! You could totally rebrand the Hannibal Lector movie as Predator movies! - but you'd be dumb to expect it to float.
Quote from: SM on Nov 11, 2018, 07:26:05 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 11, 2018, 03:50:22 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 11, 2018, 03:19:27 PM
And yet, Prometheus (a film without the Alien) was successful compared to Covenant (a film with the Alien).
Though neither was it called Alien.
And one of the complaints about Ridley Scott returning to the Alien universe was that there wasn't an Aliens in it.
And then, he returned once again to the universe with the Alien in his hands this time. While Alien: Covenant isn't a complete failure, the film didn't it earn the amount of money that FOX was expecting. Also, the noisiest complaints about Prometheus were about the stupid characters and the unhealthy exess of ambiguity.
On the other hand, my intention with this thread has nothing to do with considering the possibility of a movie without the Alien. But rather a narrative with the Alien, but with a proper exploration of the other elements of the universe. But not as in Prometheus, but more like an anthology film / TV series.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Nov 11, 2018, 06:13:07 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 11, 2018, 05:30:10 PM
Nobody said otherwise, and definitely that wasn't the point either. :-\
Quote from: SM on Nov 11, 2018, 10:00:51 AM
QuoteI think the problem with the Alien Universe is that everyone expect to have Aliens in it.
The title is a bit of a giveaway.
Quote from: The Old One on Nov 11, 2018, 12:25:15 PM
Alien implies the presence of something foreign, you can do lots with that in Ridley Scott's universe without the necessity of Giger's monster.
Guess I should have specified I wasnt really replying to your post. :-\
Ok :)
One way you could do it would be a TV series. Each episode is an unrelated Alien story. Be pretty pricey though, especially considering Alien isn't exactly hot right now.
Quote from: SM on Nov 11, 2018, 09:00:32 PM
Thanks for splaining what people can and can't be critical of. We wouldn't want to have to think for ourselves.
I said nothing of the sort, I said it shouldn't have carried any weight which is very different from saying it isn't valid.
Because the film is inferior to Alien and Aliens due to other elements, whether the Alien is present or otherwise.
We know this because very similar complaints regarding the writing are levied at Alien Covenant.
The "Xenomorph" presence or lack thereof isn't the problem with the prequels.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 11, 2018, 09:09:12 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Nov 11, 2018, 12:25:15 PM
Alien implies the presence of something foreign, you can do lots with that in Ridley Scott's universe without the necessity of Giger's monster.
Alien implies the Alien. You can't expect people to ignore 40 years of material linking the two.
You could make interesting movies in the Predator universe without the Predator - the title only implies a carnivorous animal attacking prey! It takes place in present day, with plenty of interesting dramas and conflicts happening! You could totally rebrand the Hannibal Lector movie as Predator movies! - but you'd be dumb to expect it to float.
Nah, Predator has no universe.
Besides- Prometheus did it, said "f**k the expectations" and made more moola than any of the rest.
The failure of reception beyond initial mystery box viewings- again, was in the writing- not the presence of an Alien.
People like Anthologies and are open to them as recent successful TV shows have proven.
I'm not blind, deaf and dumb- I know there's an association to Giger's Alien and rightfully so;
it's the ultimate embodiment of the title but it's not the only possible embodiment.
It can be done. Kind of like Halloween III didn't need Michael Myers. ;)
Quote from: The Old One on Nov 11, 2018, 09:41:56 PM
Nah, Predator has no universe.
How ridiculous. Of course it does. And all those trophies in the cabinet in P2, just think of all the things we can put in that aren't the Predator!
QuoteBesides- Prometheus did it, said "f**k the expectations"
Except not, because they purposely didn't put
Alien anywhere in the title and spent most of the advertisement on Ridley Scott's return to sci-fi. They knew very well they couldn't advertise it as an Alien movie without, y'know, Aliens.
Skulls equal to; A.I, Muthur, Ron Cobb Spaceships, Synthetics, W-Y, Seegson, USCM, USM, (Unusually long) Cryosleep, Shake and Bake Colonies, Engineers, The Pathogen & even more!
Yeah, right. :D
As for Prometheus- well, there you go- bill it as the Prometheus series then.
@Perfect-Organism
Or Black Mirror.
Or Mad Max, none of those entries are directly connected and
apart from the first film Max isn't the driving force of the plot-
he gets caught up in it.
There's lots of ways to do Anthologies.
I'm not a proponent of ditching the Alien altogether, just like I'm not a proponent of ditching the Alien Queen.
But you don't need either 100% of the time. Especially with the universe Alien set up beyond the monster.
Quote from: The Old One on Nov 11, 2018, 10:15:05 PM
Skulls equal to; A.I, Muthur, Spaceships, Synthetics, W-Y, Seegson, USCM, USM, Cryosleep, Shake and Bake Colonies, Engineers, The Pathogen & even more!
OWLF, Stargazer, commandos, guerrillas, police officers, warring drug lords, literally any city on Earth, the skulls, the pyramids, hunting reserve planets -- with additional alien lifeforms and technologies on them -- their technology getting left lying around, etc.
And when you think of it, there are a
lot more popular and successful films about hardened cops fighting drug lords, or commandos, or shady government bodies hunting aliens than there are about space marines, creepy AI and sci-fi political thrillers. Clearly, the universe of the Predator movies is much more ripe grounds for success than the Alien franchise ;D
You're being disenegous because not even half of those are inventions of the Predator franchise
or even carry a distinct aesthetic that reminds people of Predator.
Aka- A distinct universe with identity that isn't our own, Predator benefits from precisely the opposite-
you take a scenario that's already a recognisable modern day/our world compelling (action) film & add spice. (Predator)
Quote from: The Old One on Nov 12, 2018, 01:02:44 AM
You're being disenegous because not even half of those are inventions of the Predator franchise
or even carry a distinct aesthetic that reminds people of Predator.
Space ships, AI, synthetics, off world colonies, cryosleep, and space marines aren't the invention of the Alien series either :)
The problem with building a Predator universe IMO is that it inevitably leads you to someplace that isn't compelling. With the aliens and engineers, there is a sense that further exploration into their world will lead you to discover an ancient wisdom and revelation, whereas with the Predators, the trail will lead to a pile of empty beer cans.
An entire civilization cannot be based around hunting as everyone's favorite pastime. That leads to all sorts of absurdities. On the flip side, if only a few predators are hunters and the rest of their civilization is stratified much like ours, with accountants, mechanics, insurance brokers, what have you, well, who wants to see that?
I disagree. I don't find the Alien universe itself any more compelling than most other sci fi - the same way the Predator universe isn't much more compelling than your average 80s actioner. Without their creatures they're both pretty generic.
Prometheus is proof enough that without the Alien you're better off calling it something else.
It's all just opinion. I would be impressed if someone really did a good job of creating a compelling Predator back-story. But my personal belief is that it is an insurmountable task.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 12, 2018, 02:07:28 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Nov 12, 2018, 01:02:44 AM
You're being disenegous because not even half of those are inventions of the Predator franchise
or even carry a distinct aesthetic that reminds people of Predator.
Space ships, AI, synthetics, off world colonies, cryosleep, and space marines aren't the invention of the Alien series either :)
Nope, but these are;
Quote from: The Old One on Nov 11, 2018, 10:15:05 PM
A.I Muthur, Ron Cobb Spaceships, Synthetics, W-Y, Seegson, USCM, USM, (Unusually long) Cryosleep, Shake and Bake Colonies, Engineers,
The Pathogen & even more!
You edited your post after I responded -- but half of your additions are just desperate ("Ron Cobb spaceship"? Seriously?
Dark Star beat the movie to the punch and
Alien's aesthetic owes much to
Star Wars) and a good chunk are still wrong. The Alien franchise didn't invent unusually long cryosleep by
any stretch of the imagination, nor synthetic humans.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 12, 2018, 02:14:27 AM
It's all just opinion.
Exactly.
The aesthetic of Star Wars is very, very different to Alien- the most they have in common is lived-in space technology.
The unusually long hypersleep was just tongue in cheek awareness that whilst these aren't exactly all Alien specific,
although a great deal of them are- certainly more than half- the versions specific to Alien are unique to Alien.
For example: Milky artificial people with no reproductive organs.
But it's also a robot in basic concept, but it's wrong to say it's interchangeable with a Terminator or Cyberman for instance.
There's nothing of the sort specific to the first Predator film as an equivalence.
Two if you're being generous could include, one Alien spaceship, with skulls granted and a single creature.
Or OWLF but really, that's just the men in black- they're's nothing terribly unique about them beyond Peter Keyes.
But the difference is, the Predator films are defined by the presence of that Predator alone.
That's why dropping the Predator into any other good action film you can think of works conceptually.
Alien in comparison, inhabits a world, a world that persists without it's presence that's substantially different from our own.
But very very real in many ways, separating it not just in details- but in tone from Mass Effect, Star Trek and Star Wars.
Quote from: The Old One on Nov 12, 2018, 03:24:50 AM
The aesthetic of Star Wars is very, very different to Alien- the most they have in common is lived-in space technology.
It's really not. The interiors of the Millenium Falcon and the Nostromo are very similar in places (dat wall padding).
QuoteThe unusually long hypersleep was just tongue in cheek awareness that whilst these aren't exactly all Alien specific,
although a great deal of them are- certainly more than half- the versions specific to Alien are unique to Alien.
LA in 1997 ain't unique to
Predator 2, but damned if its portrayal isn't.
QuoteFor example: Milky artificial people with no reproductive organs.
But it's also a robot in basic concept, but it's wrong to say it's interchangeable with a Terminator or Cyberman for instance.
A lot of those "milky" visuals were taken from comics.
QuoteOr OWLF but really, that's just the men in black they're's nothing terribly unique about them beyond Peter Keyes.
You really just summarised most of the Alien franchise stuff. "It's just X, but with one little thing." The Colonial Marines are more known for their hardware than anything, for example. They're otherwise just soldiers.
QuoteBut the difference is, the Predator films are defined by the presence of that Predator alone.
There have been Alien films that left out each of the elements you mentioned and still functioned as Alien films -- but no Alien films that have left out the Alien. ;D
Ok- it's quarter to 4 AM, this isn't worth getting irritated over.
It's not worth getting irritated over at any hour :P
We disagree and we're explaining why, that's the fun!
I believe I said in another thread that a single episode/short in an anthology is fine to explore Alien-less stories. I just don't think the world itself is inherently compelling enough to run a feature (without renaming it) or a series without becoming very generic sci-fi that's neither helped nor hindered by the set dressings of the Alien series.
It can certainly be done. I really think that TV is the best way to go... The films have consistently not been great since Aliens. I know that 3 and Resurrection have their fanbases as do Prometheus and Covenant but none of these movies have had the impact of the first two. I just think that TV can offer something different - maybe something better. Things like Walking Dead (I've not seen it), Game of Thrones and all that have been going on for many years ... why couldn't a series set in the AlienVerse do the same?
Alienless stories can work - but if you're setting it in the AlienVerse, then you would have to allude to things from the movies - that would make sense to me. Like the presence of Wey-Yu or Hyperdyne (I believe they were bought out by Wey-Yu, I'm sure SM confirmed that in another thread).
I don't think every story could be Alienless, but in a TV show you could certainly explore other avenues.
I thought that "A murder on Thedus" would be a good idea. Let's say that the original science offer of the Nostromo goes up against the company for unfair dismissal. The guy has a case - and if people start digging, they'll find out about Ash, the special order and all that stuff.
The science officer meets with an unfortunate accident. Enter our jaded alcoholic cop and her hot-dog newbie sidekick - they start investigating and soon begin to uncover the very things that wey-yu have been trying to hide. These cops can't be bought or scared off - they're going after the truth (in the face of corrupt bosses and all that fun stuff). Like Dirty Harry - they're against the system and trying to buck it.
None of that involves seeing the monster at all, but it's fingerprints (dare I say DNA) are all over the story.
Quote from: Russ on Nov 12, 2018, 09:17:18 AM
...
I thought that "A murder on Thedus" would be a good idea. Let's say that the original science offer of the Nostromo goes up against the company for unfair dismissal. The guy has a case - and if people start digging, they'll find out about Ash, the special order and all that stuff.
The science officer meets with an unfortunate accident. Enter our jaded alcoholic cop and her hot-dog newbie sidekick - they start investigating and soon begin to uncover the very things that wey-yu have been trying to hide. These cops can't be bought or scared off - they're going after the truth (in the face of corrupt bosses and all that fun stuff). Like Dirty Harry - they're against the system and trying to buck it.
...
Immmm... I have a story about this. :laugh:
TC
You do!?! Damn, there goes my big novel pitch...
Would love to read it :-)
That idea could work -- but it's not really in keeping with what was shown in Alien. Shuffling crew members doesn't seem to be a major thing (Ripley wasn't part of the normal crew roster) and the Company didn't explicitly try to murder anyone until Alien3 (and to be fair, that dude had in turn tried to murder someone right in front of them). More likely they would've just put the dude on another ship and sent him on his merry way.
I guess that's another issue I have with the Alien-less Alien stories. Unless you're replacing the Alien with another monster of the week, you're left with ... corporate meetings? Commandos in space?
Quote from: Russ on Nov 12, 2018, 11:45:51 AM
You do!?! Damn, there goes my big novel pitch...
Would love to read it :-)
Yeah I know what you mean. :)
So often I think I have a great new unique idea and then I read of someone else's thoughts who independently came up with something similar. But then, we all haunt the same forums, subconsciously cross pollinating each others ideas, affected by the same fandom zeitgeist. It sort of has to be expected.
I'll tell you what the differences are (between what you wrote and my stuff):
(This is all fanfic, BTW)
Your "jaded alcoholic cop" is my "Marshall William T O'Neil" (yes, he bares a striking resemblence to Sean Connery, just as displayed on page 1 of this very thread!).
He arrives on Thedus (it's a space station, not a planet) to take up the office of Galactic Marshall in this recently opened sector of the Galaxy. He's getting on in years, close to retirement.
Your "hot-dog newbie sidekick" is my "Dr Elizabeth Shaw." She doesn't work for him, she works for Colonial Admin. as their exobiologist. But O'Niel deputises her and relies on her to provide science advice on his investigations.
Your "murder on Thedus" is my "pursuit of criminal on-the-run" Dr Ian Cuthbert, wanted for illegal clone experiments on unwary citizens.
Your "things Wey-Yu have been trying to hide" is my "Wey-Yu harbouring and concealing a fugitive from justice" (namely, Dr Cuthbert).
Your "they'll find out about Ash, the special order and all that stuff" is a bit more involved in my take (which is essentially a TV series version of the Alien saga).
Here are the opening episodes, in a nutshell:
The Nostromo ships out of Thedus.
O'Neill puts the heat on Cuthbert as he gets closer and closer to finding him, eventually enforcing a lockdown of all unscheduled departures from Thedus.
The Nostromo unexpectedly returns under an emergency flag. O'Neill is alerted.
Kane is offloaded in a stasis tube, creature attached to his face, taken to the W-Y medical lab. Dr Shaw is called upon to provide assistance.
O'Neill asks Dr Shaw to attend the Nostromo crew debrief, in which they recount their tale on LV-426, while he continues his pursuit of Dr Cuthbert.
Cuthbert secretly meets with W-Y and does a deal in which they will help him elude the Marshall and in return he will give them the benefit of his scientific expertise.
Miraculously, the creature falls off Kane's face and W-Y declares him fit for duty, much to Dr Shaw's consternation. In fact, she complains to O'Neil that despite her being asked to consult on the case by W-Y, she was kept at arms length from the patient.
The real Nostromo science officer is kidnapped and replaced by Cuthbert who assumes the name Ash, and the Nostromo hurriedly departs again with Kane and "Ash" both onboard.
W-Y throws up a smoke screen to stifle O'Neill and Shaws' investigations.
Onboard the Nostomo, it's business as usual, except that "Ash" takes an unusual interest in Kane's activities.
Back on Thedus, W-Y is mounting an expedition to LV-426, the planetoid where Kane was attacked. They entice Dr Shaw to accompany them.
And so on...
Quote from: SiL on Nov 12, 2018, 12:38:50 PM
That idea could work -- but it's not really in keeping with what was shown in Alien. Shuffling crew members doesn't seem to be a major thing (Ripley wasn't part of the normal crew roster) and the Company didn't explicitly try to murder anyone until Alien3 (and to be fair, that dude had in turn tried to murder someone right in front of them). More likely they would've just put the dude on another ship and sent him on his merry way.
...
Of course, you're responding to Russ, but it applies to what I just wrote, so in order to pre-empt your next post:
Yes, your objections are correct. My excuse is that I've changed so much of the original stories I've also taken the liberty of excising and rewriting the bits that get in my way, heh heh.
Yes, I'm shameless. Guilty as charged.
TC
I did not know about the roster stuff, fair comment.
For me, I was thinking more about an x-files type of thing. As the cops investigate more deeply they begin to learn more and more about the shadowy dealings of Wey-Yu and their secretive dealings to do with alien technology.
You could reference all sorts of stuff - perhaps they find an "Alan Schaefer - Val Verde" file which has a recording of an Arnold sound-a-like describing what happened to him and his team (It's using the trees... watching and waiting ... killing us off one by one...*lol*)...
Maybe this takes place after Alien3? That way, you could really go to town with the Nostromo, Hadley's Hope and so on.
But Commandos in Space would be ace - I mean, Space: Above and Beyond was really good, imagine that with Xenos popping up every so often.
I wonder what they are talking about doing, the rumour mill is turning about the TV show is floating around again, isn't it - guess we can hope that it's real and it's going to be good!
Quote from: TC on Nov 12, 2018, 01:13:00 PM
Yeah I know what you mean. :)
So often I think I have a great new unique idea and then I read of someone else's thoughts who independently came up with something similar. But then, we all haunt the same forums, subconsciously cross pollinating each others thoughts, affected by the same fandom zeitgeist. It sort of has to be expected.
Thanks so much for posting this, I really liked the ideas - great work!
Quote from: SiL on Nov 12, 2018, 08:40:02 AM
I believe I said in another thread that a single episode/short in an anthology is fine to explore Alien-less stories. I just don't think the world itself is inherently compelling enough to run a feature (without renaming it) or a series without becoming very generic sci-fi that's neither helped nor hindered by the set dressings of the Alien series.
Well, this may change if you use a lot of Giger's imagery in order to conceive a less generic sci-fi setting. But aparently, they (FOX) don't want to pay for Giger's estate, so they are using the stuff that they own (the Derelict blueprint, for example). I could be wrong though.
Quote from: Russ on Nov 12, 2018, 09:17:18 AM
I thought that "A murder on Thedus" would be a good idea. Let's say that the original science offer of the Nostromo goes up against the company for unfair dismissal. The guy has a case - and if people start digging, they'll find out about Ash, the special order and all that stuff.
The science officer meets with an unfortunate accident. Enter our jaded alcoholic cop and her hot-dog newbie sidekick - they start investigating and soon begin to uncover the very things that wey-yu have been trying to hide. These cops can't be bought or scared off - they're going after the truth (in the face of corrupt bosses and all that fun stuff). Like Dirty Harry - they're against the system and trying to buck it.
None of that involves seeing the monster at all, but it's fingerprints (dare I say DNA) are all over the story.
Quote from: TC on Nov 12, 2018, 01:13:00 PM
Your "jaded alcoholic cop" is my "Marshall William T O'Niell" (yes, he bares a striking resemblence to Sean Connery, just as displayed on page 1 of this very thread!).
He arrives on Thedus (it's a space station, not a planet) to take up the office of Galactic Marshall in this recently opened sector of the Galaxy. He's getting on in years, close to retirement.
Your "hot-dog newbie sidekick" is my "Dr Elizabeth Shaw." She doesn't work for him, she works for Colonial Admin. as their exobiologist. But O'Niell deputises her and relies on her to provide science advice on his investigations.
Your "murder on Thedus" is my "pursuit of criminal on-the-run" Dr Ian Cuthbert, wanted for illegal clone experiments on unwary citizens.
Your "things Wey-Yu have been trying to hide" is my "Wey-Yu harbouring and concealing a fugitive from justice" (namely, Dr Cuthbert).
Your "they'll find out about Ash, the special order and all that stuff" is a bit more involved in my take (which is essentially a TV series version of the Alien saga).
Here are the opening episodes, in nutshell:
The Nostromo ships out of Thedus.
O'Neill puts the heat on Cuthbert as he gets closer and closer to finding him, eventually enforcing a lockdown of all unscheduled departures from Thedus.
The Nostromo unexpectedly returns under an emergency flag. O'Neill is alerted.
Kane is offloaded in a stasis tube, creature attached to his face, taken to the W-Y medical lab. Dr Shaw is called upon to provide assistance.
O'Neill asks Dr Shaw to attend the Nostromo crew debrief, in which they recount their tale on LV-426, while he continues his pursuit of Dr Cuthbert.
Cuthbert secretly meets with W-Y and does a deal with W-Y to have him shipped out on one of their scheduled freighters. He adopts the guise of "Ash", a science officer.
Miraculously, the creature falls off Kane's face and W-Y declares him fit for duty, much to Dr Shaw's consternation. In fact, she complains to O'Niell that despite her being asked to consult on the case by W-Y, she was kept at arms length from the patient.
The real science officer is kidnapped and replaced by Cuthbert/Ash, and the Nostromo hurriedly departs again with Kane and Ash both onboard.
W-Y throws up a smoke screen to stifle O'Niell and Dr Shaws' investigations.
Onboard the Nostomo, it's business as usual, except that "Ash" takes an unusual interest in Kane's activities.
Back on Thedus, W-Y is mounting an expedition to LV-426, the planetoid where Kane was attacked. They entice Dr Shaw to accompany them.
And so on...
TC
Yeah, that is a proper approach for an hypothetical Alien TV series. The X-files style idea is equal interesting actually.
QuoteWell, this may change if you use a lot of Giger's imagery in order to conceive a less generic sci-fi setting. But aparently, they (FOX) don't want to pay for Giger's estate, so they are using the stuff that they own (the Derelict blueprint, for example). I could be wrong though.
Pretty much correct - however I don't think they should be using non-Alien Giger stuff.
Probably not, but I was thinking on a story featuring alien artifacts (perhaps manufactured by the Space Jockeys), and overall I was trying to figure out how an hypothetical Alien TV series can be perceived as something less generic; but more like an appealing (and multifacetic) sci-fi world. For example, the jaded alcoholic cop idea (or a detective trying to uncover dirty things & secrets of the Company) can leads to an interesting neo-noir set piece on a retro-futuristic Earth, or an space station / space colony of some kind.
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Nah, I'm more in the 'if you want to call it Alien - put an Alien in it' camp.
Of course, you can't remove the Alien out of the equation. But that doesn't mean that you can't expand the scope (i.e, explore (introduce) other in universe elements).
And back to the anthology idea, how about a space colony where a delusional society of humans are worshiping the Engineers. Their cities are being raised around Space Jockeys monuments that they found on the Planet, and they are living in some kind of space feudalism (or like the dystopian humanity in Warhammer 40,000) which include bizarre rituals and experimentation with black goo. Sort of Dark City meets Vincent Wards' Alien 3.
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Quote from: SiL on Nov 12, 2018, 08:40:02 AM
I believe I said in another thread that a single episode/short in an anthology is fine to explore Alien-less stories. I just don't think the world itself is inherently compelling enough to run a feature (without renaming it) or a series without becoming very generic sci-fi that's neither helped nor hindered by the set dressings of the Alien series.
My initial instinct is to agree. I've thought about this before. Without the Alien stuff the story concept does get a bit "future/sci-fi" generic. It really needs a strong hook to uniquely identify itself, and that hook (naturally) is Alien
TM. The same applies to a Blade Runner TV show, which would need replicants as its hook. Otherwise, audiences would feel a bit gypped with the false branding of
Alien and
Blade Runner.
Not saying it couldn't be done. It would just be a minefield of marketing traps.
@Russ
Did you see
Almost Human? It was a TV show with Karl Urban. Jaded detective of the future is paired with android sidekick he doesn't like but learns to overcome his prejudices as they solve crimes together. Sort of Blader Runner meets Lethal Weapon meets Robocop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_Human_(TV_series)
TC
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 12, 2018, 11:12:32 PM
Of course, you can't remove the Alien out of the equation. But that doesn't mean that you can't expand the scope (i.e, explore (introduce) other in universe elements).
True. In fact, in an expansive TV series you're kind of obligated to introduce other elements. (By expansive, I mean modelled on something like the more modern type of TV show, e.g.
Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, which use giant-mytharcs, rather than the episodic self-contained stories of, say
NCIS or
Law and Order. Although other shows are a combination of the two styles; e.g.
The Good Wife, the X-Files.)
Compare this with
Alien '79 the movie. A very self contained and very compact tale. And deliberately so, as a B-movie styled and intense experience (and especially as a low budget effort, as originally conceived). Also very one-track and linear in plotting. Whereas the expansive TV shows of today are usually multi-plotted with parallel storylines. Also, there's a greater use of flashbacks and jumping timelines in today's stories. It all adds to the complexity modern audiences expect.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 12, 2018, 11:12:32 PM
And back to the anthology idea, how about a space colony where a delusional society of humans are worshiping the Engineers. Their cities are being raised around Space Jockeys monuments that they found on the Planet, and they are living in some kind of space feudalism (or like the dystopian humanity in Warhammer 40,000) which include bizarre rituals and experimentation with black goo. Sort of Dark City meets Vincent Wards' Alien 3.
At one stage, I had my Marshall O'Neil and Dr Shaw investigating a cult colony in which a David Karesh-like leader was getting his followers to worship a xeno egg and flirting with ritual sacrifice. (It turns out the egg is petrified and non-viable).
And there was another story where they stumble onto a smuggling operation in which a bunch of Working Joes are being brought in to tend to a xeno-egg nursery (humans, for obvious reasons, would not be suitable).
So, yeah, it got a bit
X Files-ish. But I tried to link everything back to
Alien's concepts. And I think you can see that the mytharc I plotted everything around (i.e. the
spine of my imagined TV series), was a riff on the movie franchise.
TC
Quote@Russ
Did you see Almost Human? It was a TV show with Karl Urban. Jaded detective of the future is paired with android sidekick he doesn't like but learns to overcome his prejudices as they solve crimes together. Sort of Blader Runner meets Lethal Weapon meets Robocop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_Human_(TV_series)
TC
No, I've not seen that one, but it sounds really cool (the last time Urban wasn't cool was when he was Eros in Xena - and I bet that has gone retro cool now anyway).
On the TV show - as I said, it can be done, but you'd have to link it into all the of "stuff" that makes up the AlienVerse and (wey-yu and all that as we have said).
But sooner or later, you'd have to have xenos in it, I don't think the Smallville tights/flights rule can apply.