The Alien being worshiped by a cult - Live Action

Started by Immortan Jonesy, Apr 29, 2020, 10:10:48 PM

Do you think the Alien being worshiped by a cult / religion would be great for a movie?

Yes
9 (23.1%)
No
0 (0%)
Depends on who is directing
0 (0%)
Depends on who is writing
3 (7.7%)
Both: options 3 & 4
25 (64.1%)
I don't care
2 (5.1%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Author
The Alien being worshiped by a cult - Live Action (Read 7,668 times)

marrerom

Its a cool idea. Very Lovecraftian. In fact there have been elements of this throughout the films already: Ash, Golic, and Gediman were all obsessed with the Alien to the point of insanity.

D. Compton Ambrose

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 17, 2020, 06:35:52 PM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 17, 2020, 06:21:35 PM
Bar a few obvious problems, I enjoy Alien 3 as well. I think its a decent ending to Ripley's arc.

We have never really seen a Xenomorph cult in a live action movie, not including that brief flashback in AVP. So its a chance to explore a different path.

I think if you put a bunch of people in an isolated environment for too long crazy things can happen. As in Vincent Ward's Alien III.

I love the idea of ​​post apocalyptic religions, like the mutant humans from Planet of the Apes, who had survived the war with the apes and who worship a not-detonated nuclear missile as a Deity.



Here are more examples.

The Church of the Children of Atom:

Quote from: FALLOUT WIKIChildren of Atom (sometimes referred to as the Church of the Children of Atom or rad eaters by certain residents of Far Harbor) is a religious cult built around the worship of radiation and nuclear annihilation as vehicles of creation and life.



The Cult of the V8:

Quote from: THE MAD MAX WIKIThe Cult of the V8 is an automobile and engine based Wasteland religion of Immortan Joe's War Boys. It is featured in Mad Max: Fury Road.



Exactly. Hence why "its been done to death" is not a good argument imo.

[cancerblack]

For the record, I also quite like the idea of Engineer cults. The way I had it plotted out for RPG stuff was that they were cults of personality worshiping individual, semi debased Engies who granted devotees technological or biological "boons". Some of them weren't above using their cattle to breed Aliens either.

The "true" Engineers view it as essentially "Spiritual Bestiality" and have a strong disgust for these minor god-kings.

JokersWarPig

Considering human being will worship almost anything I could totally see it. It'd be an interesting idea to see on screen.

Immortan Jonesy

Immortan Jonesy

#34
The idea is very interesting. And if it can be well written and well executed even more. It is a canonically unexplored side and could be part of something new rather than more of the same.

☜(⌒▽⌒)☞




Quote from: marrerom on Jun 18, 2020, 02:41:47 PM
Its a cool idea. Very Lovecraftian. In fact there have been elements of this throughout the films already: Ash, Golic, and Gediman were all obsessed with the Alien to the point of insanity.



  ;D

Indeed! Just as in Lovecraftian fiction in which an ancient global cult spread the worship of the octopus-headed Great Cthulhu, I'd like to see the same but with the capital Alien, somehow. I'm not sure how, so here you go:

1 - A space colony of humans isolated from everything, living some kind of crazy theocracy, every time they worship a deadly monster with a penis-shaped head.

2 - An ancient human civilization (Mayans, Egyptians, Sumerians, etc) doing the same.

3 - The Engineers worshiping primodial Morphs. Maybe the old ones.

However, If we're lucky to see the xeno-cult from the human perspective, I want a psychological exploration. I.e psychological horror and not purely cosmic horror.  :)




Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jun 18, 2020, 08:34:21 PM
For the record, I also quite like the idea of Engineer cults. The way I had it plotted out for RPG stuff was that they were cults of personality worshiping individual, semi debased Engies who granted devotees technological or biological "boons". Some of them weren't above using their cattle to breed Aliens either.

The "true" Engineers view it as essentially "Spiritual Bestiality" and have a strong disgust for these minor god-kings.

Imagine seeing a direction like this in a new Alien story. It would be so cool!!!  8)

☜(⌒▽⌒)☞

SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#35
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 17, 2020, 10:06:52 AM
Like I said, the whole evil corp thing has been done to death and it wasn't really good to begin with it just too over the top.
Alien and Aliens never had to deal with an evil corpation, the first film had Ash malfunctioning trying to reconcile conflicting orders, Aliens had Burke acting only.
It is only in the third film that company shows more presence and even then it is ambigious on whether they could save Ripley's life. Resurrection and ACM really took the cliche as the companies there were outright killing innocent people to breed the Alien.
Varies comics and novels show the same. The evil corp angle is old.

Really? That's so weird, it feels to me that this theme is even more relevant and grounded in reality than it's ever been before. I guess from my perspective, it's always felt like the Company was intended to be taken as the true villain in All three of the films in the original trilogy from the very start.

Like, with Jurassic Park, I never felt that the T-Rex or the Velociraptors were the "Big Bad" of the film. Weren't the true evils of that film the hubris of man and corporate avarice? I mean, I don't know which species is worse. But, you don't see the raptors fakking each other over for a g'damn percentage.

Outside of corporate loyalty, or a some inexplicable sense of tribalism, I'm having difficulty understanding an alternate perspective regarding this. But shit man, maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're trying to say. If so, please elaborate, I know I'm interested to understand the rationale of a such a different viewpoint on this particular take.




Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 16, 2020, 03:29:19 PM
The good thing about such a plot is that it takes the focus away from the whole evil corporation angle. I find fanatics can be a more dangerous adversary and one which doesn't require too much eye rolling at the whole bond villian stuff. Fantatics are irrational and delusional so dark behavior like sacrificing others and monologueing would not be so out there  for such mentally unstable people.

Also there is a few comics that shows just how much damage a cult can cause. In one case, an entire colony is wiped out and in another, they caused the infestation of earth

Wasn't the downfall of the Omni-Tech colony, from Elder Gods, due to a group of entitled white dudes willing to devalue the lives of all the other colonists, killing Everyone off out of some misguided sense of destiny and revenge for being "forced" to do work that they felt was beneath them?

And wasn't the fall of Earth due to the willingness of the BioNational Corporation to circumvent all regulation and safety concerns regarding the trafficking,  possession, and cultivation of untested biological materials? Didn't BioNational explicitly violate those regulations in order to corner the market for biological weaponry ahead of the competition? Didn't this violation of health and safety regulations directly cause, through the creation of a Queen the local outbreak of mental aberrations which lead to the creation of that cult in the first place?

Wouldn't the rationale of corporate absolution, you seem to be presenting, instead paint Ripley as the true villain of these films? Simply a loose cannon fanatic concerned solely with inciting terrorism and the wanton destruction of Company property and assets?

Hmmmn, I don't feel like I'm crazy, but then again the crazy one's never do. We're All Mad Here.

The Cruentus

Regardless of the failings and incompetence of others, it was still cultists that caused an immense amount of damage  simply because of their fanaticism and worship of the Aliens, whether they know what they are or thought it was Tulita or whatever doesn't diminish how dangerous they were and how interesting such a story could be in live action.

Don't know what you are trying to imply by saying "my rationale" but I am just going to assume good faith and ignore your misinterpretation. Nothing in my explanation is about Ripley or her behavior, nor does it paint her as villain.

SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#37
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 23, 2020, 08:07:38 AM
Regardless of the failings and incompetence of others, it was still cultists that caused an immense amount of damage  simply because of their fanaticism and worship of the Aliens, whether they know what they are or thought it was Tulita or whatever doesn't diminish how dangerous they were and how interesting such a story could be in live action.

Don't know what you are trying to imply by saying "my rationale" but I am just going to assume good faith and ignore your misinterpretation. Nothing in my explanation is about Ripley or her behavior, nor does it paint her as villain.

Oh yeah, sorry for being muddy, I was kinda non-sequential there. I was specifically referring to your apparent rationale (which, as you say, I've obviously misinterpreted) that The Company was not the ultimate antagonist of All three films, and therefore they could somehow be viewed as blameless in all the affairs depicted, as opposed to being directly and unambiguously culpable from the start.

If that were what you were saying, then that would mean that the findings of Ripley's Board of Inquiry, in the second film, are accurate and are presented in "good faith", these are your words, and that further, Ripley's continued actions in defiance of Company interests can only be viewed, as Van Leuwen puts it, from their perspective, as the rogue actions of an unstable employee, exhibiting truly villainous behaviour with complete disregard to Company property and in direct violation of clearly communicated company interests. That was my misinterpretation anyway. I'm curious what a more accurate interpretation of what you're saying is.

Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 23, 2020, 08:07:38 AM
Regardless of the failings and incompetence of others, it was still cultists that caused an immense amount of damage  simply because of their fanaticism and worship of the Aliens, whether they know what they are or thought it was Tulita or whatever doesn't diminish how dangerous they were and how interesting such a story could be in live action.

In the interest of clarity and the prevention of misinterpretation, the result of the Earth infestation was not due to "failings and incompetence", BioNational was fully aware of the actions they were committing and, in pursuit of profit gain and competitive advantage, and at the knowing risk to other people's lives, they intentionally circumvented all law and regulation in order to commit those actions, regulatory laws which were specifically put in place to prevent just such a foreseeable event of global biological contamination. How they botched it up is the least important aspect, of primary importance is that their profit motivated and fully informed actions directly lead to the situation in which things could have been botched so catastrophically in the first place. But i'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I'm only clarifying what I'm saying so that, hopefully, it's more difficult to misconstrue.

Wouldn't you agree that BN knowingly broke the law for their own profit, and were it not for those fully premeditated actions on their part, no cult would have been created through poisoning of the local environment, and therefore there would have been no available biological contamination to be breached?

Likewise, the Tulitu bois did not accidentally cause the deaths of the entire Mira Ceti 4 colony out of blind observance of their religious practices. Rather, out of their own self-delusion of destined superiority, and, explicitly, the insult they felt at being compelled to perform labor they deemed menial and beneath them, they unilaterally decided that everyone had to die and they chose to tout religious practice as the motivation for their revenge. Just like Legate Muir did in Alchemy, just as Preacher Ramirus did in Phalanx. Spite and pursuit of power were the true motivation, religious practice was simply an excuse. "Honor the Carnea."

But of course, this is just my wacky interpretation. Other logics may produce different but perfectly valid perspectives.

The Cruentus

Quote from: SpaceKase on Jun 23, 2020, 03:38:35 PM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 23, 2020, 08:07:38 AM
Regardless of the failings and incompetence of others, it was still cultists that caused an immense amount of damage  simply because of their fanaticism and worship of the Aliens, whether they know what they are or thought it was Tulita or whatever doesn't diminish how dangerous they were and how interesting such a story could be in live action.

Don't know what you are trying to imply by saying "my rationale" but I am just going to assume good faith and ignore your misinterpretation. Nothing in my explanation is about Ripley or her behavior, nor does it paint her as villain.

Oh yeah, sorry for being muddy, I was kinda non-sequential there. I was specifically referring to your apparent rationale (which, as you say, I've obviously misinterpreted) that The Company was not the ultimate antagonist of All three films, and therefore they could somehow be viewed as blameless in all the affairs depicted, as opposed to being directly and unambiguously culpable from the start.

I never said that, I said that the company was not directly involved in the first two films. Ash interpreted orders and Burke acted alone.

QuoteIf that were what you were saying, then that would mean that the findings of Ripley's Board of Inquiry, in the second film, are accurate and are presented in "good faith", these are your words, and that further, Ripley's continued actions in defiance of Company interests can only be viewed, as Van Leuwen puts it, from their perspective, as the rogue actions of an unstable employee, exhibiting truly villainous behaviour with complete disregard to Company property and in direct violation of clearly communicated company interests. That was my misinterpretation anyway. I'm curious what a more accurate interpretation of what you're saying is.

I never said any of that nor did my post even imply it. Either you are misinterpreting or you are being deliberate, but I was assuming good faith and chose to instead explain on the off chance you did misinterprete.

Quote
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 23, 2020, 08:07:38 AM
Regardless of the failings and incompetence of others, it was still cultists that caused an immense amount of damage  simply because of their fanaticism and worship of the Aliens, whether they know what they are or thought it was Tulita or whatever doesn't diminish how dangerous they were and how interesting such a story could be in live action.

In the interest of clarity and the prevention of misinterpretation, the result of the Earth infestation was not due to "failings and incompetence", BioNational was fully aware of the actions they were committing and, in pursuit of profit gain and competitive advantage, and at the knowing risk to other people's lives, they intentionally circumvented all law and regulation in order to commit those actions, regulatory laws which were specifically put in place to prevent just such a foreseeable event of global biological contamination. How they botched it up is the least important aspect, of primary importance is that their profit motivated and fully informed actions directly lead to the situation in which things could have been botched so catastrophically in the first place. But i'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I'm only clarifying what I'm saying so that, hopefully, it's more difficult to misconstrue.

Wouldn't you agree that BN knowingly broke the law for their own profit, and were it not for those fully premeditated actions on their part, no cult would have been created through poisoning of the local environment, and therefore there would have been no available biological contamination to be breached?

This is seeming to be getting and more and more like trolling,  I am not talking about Bionational's amoral practises, that much is obvious but the infestation happened because cultists broke into the facility, got themselves infected and spread it around the world. Ergo they are dangerous and unstable people.

Quote
Likewise, the Tulita bois did not accidentally cause the deaths of the entire Mira Ceti 4 colony out of blind observance of their religious practices. Rather, out of their own self-delusion of destined superiority, and, explicitly, the insult they felt at being compelled to perform labor they deemed menial and beneath them, they unilaterally decided that everyone had to die and they chose to tout religious practice as the motivation for their revenge. Just like Legate Muir did in Alchemy, just as Preacher Ramirus did in Phalanx. Spite and pursuit of power were the true motivation, religious practice was simply an excuse. "Honor the Carnea."

But of course, this is just my wacky interpretation. Other logics may produce different but perfectly valid perspectives.

I never said it was an accident....Their self delusion was my point....Whatever their motives, they were not stable or rational human beings. They got themselves infected and intentionallly infected the outpost, resulting in everyone dying.

SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#39
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 23, 2020, 06:24:49 PM
Quote from: SpaceKase on Jun 23, 2020, 03:38:35 PM
... I've obviously misinterpreted [...] The Company was not the ultimate antagonist of All three films, and therefore they could somehow be viewed as blameless...

I never said that, I said that the company was not directly involved in the first two films. Ash interpreted orders and Burke acted alone.

That's totally valid man, sorry I came on strong, it just felt like a stretch that I admittedly couldn't comprehend, and it broke my brain a little bit. But just because I can't see (what I think) you're saying in the source material, that doesn't mean it's not a view that one could reasonably choose to take.

I guess, to me, it would just be like metaphorically saying InGen wasn't responsible for the deaths of all those people in Jurrasic Park, the crazy dinosaurs were, or the conflicting programming of the park's security system was really responsible. Or like, if BioSyn, the company that hired Denis Nedry to commit corporate espionage, turned around and claimed that he was acting all on his own in no connection with themselves and thus they too were innocent.

But you're right, you didn't actually say or claim any of those specific things, I do not truly know what you think, and indeed those are topics beyond the scope of this thread.


Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 23, 2020, 06:24:49 PM
Quote from: SpaceKase on Jun 23, 2020, 03:38:35 PM
If that were what you were saying [...] as Van Leuwen puts it, from their perspective, [Ripley's actions could be seen] as the rogue actions of an unstable employee... [acting] with complete disregard to Company property and in direct violation of clearly communicated company interests. That was my misinterpretation anyway. I'm curious what a more accurate interpretation of what you're saying is.

I never said any of that nor did my post even imply it. Either you are misinterpreting or you are being deliberate, but I was assuming good faith and chose to instead explain on the off chance you did misinterprete.


My bad, as I indicated, I'm still scratching my head over the implications of what you might be saying, and I was admittedly filling in the blanks.

Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 23, 2020, 06:24:49 PM
Quote from: SpaceKase on Jun 23, 2020, 03:38:35 PM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jun 23, 2020, 08:07:38 AM
Regardless of the failings and incompetence of others, it was still cultists that caused an immense amount of damage  simply because of their fanaticism and worship of the Aliens...
[...]
Wouldn't you agree that BN knowingly broke the law for their own profit, and were it not for those fully premeditated actions on their part, no cult would have been created through poisoning of the local environment, and likewise there would have been no available biological contamination to be breached?

This is seeming to be getting and more and more like trolling,  I am not talking about Bionational's amoral practises, that much is obvious but the infestation happened because cultists broke into the facility, got themselves infected and spread it around the world. Ergo they are dangerous and unstable people.

I guess we're just disagreeing about "how the infestation happened", and tacitly how it should and could have been prevented, but you're right, that's neither here nor there. Returning to the thread topic of the mechanisms and nuances of Cults, I guess I was just having a knee-jerk reaction to some peoples' (not you friend, no worries) or some corporation's reckless tendency to pawn off responsibility for avoidable disasters on a "crazy/unstable/irrational" few in order to absolve themselves from culpability.

As you've rightfully stated, it felt like I was wrongfully laying that on your shoulders, and that wasn't fair of me, apologies again.

However, with regards to organizations in power surreptitiously using unstable cults of people to their own advantage, I think it would be incredibly interesting to have a live action film that shows how the real life mechanisms of this kind of dynamic typically play out, or could potentially play out in the fictional setting.

Or perhaps a story showing just how a single individual can charismatically rouse a group of unstable folk together and create a cult in the first place, like The Rev. Dr. Thomas Engstrom from Totem of The Queen Mother. But using the Real dynamics of cult mentality instead of just hand-waving and saying, oh those guys are just crazy and leaving it at that.

Quote
Quote
Likewise, the Tulita bois [...] out of their own self-delusion of destined superiority, and, explicitly, the insult they felt at being compelled to perform labor they deemed menial and beneath them...

I never said it was an accident....Their self delusion was my point....Whatever their motives, they were not stable or rational human beings. They got themselves infected and intentionallly infected the outpost, resulting in everyone dying.

I guess all I'm saying is that disregarding the motivations of a Cult or its leader, or ignoring the Real Life mechanisms of how cults are created and sustained, would be the quickest way to sink an idea, like the original poster put forth, into hollow artifice.

I'm just respectfully dissenting, but I got way too exuberant and ended up coming off far too pointedly. Genuinely sorry about that man, these times, they get the feels up. It's no excuse freaking peeps out, and you didn't deserve that.

Immortan Jonesy

I like those stories where a detective travels to a town to investigate a disappearance or something like that. Things descend into madness once the protagonist learns about the sinister and bizarre rituals of the villagers to worship a monster or a symbolic deity. Lovecraft's The Shadow over Innsmouth & Robin Hardy's Wicker Man comes to mind.





In the case of a cult that worships the Alien, the cult itself can be approached as an element of alienation. Characters who lose their humanity through barbarism, madness and perversion to become true monsters.

SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#41
I've never gotten to see either of the Wicker Men, but I really need to, and regretfully I was underwhelmed by Midsommar, even though it was pretty.

The Innsmouth adaptation Dagon, In the Mouth of Madness, and Children of the Corn are all favs of mine, with honorary mention going to Gareth Evans' Apostle.

When it comes to cult leaders, it's hard to beat the aforementioned Rev Henry Kane from the Poltergeist trilogy, but the Winnebago folk from Mandy are also pretty fun.

Immortan Jonesy

Quote from: SpaceKase on Jun 25, 2020, 11:30:29 AM
Gareth Evans' Apostle.

I'm going to see that one right now!  8)

Edit: I am not kidding.

SpaceKase

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 25, 2020, 06:31:25 PM
Quote from: SpaceKase on Jun 25, 2020, 11:30:29 AM
Gareth Evans' Apostle.

I'm going to see that one right now!  8)

Edit: I am not kidding.

Noice! It's weird, twisted, and pretty, just like some of my favorite peeps. It's a thought-compelling slow burn with plenty of skillfully employed ambiguity, like the best of Oz Perkins or Ridley Scott; hope you dig it!

SpaceKase

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 01, 2020, 04:37:37 AM
[...] the psychological side of worshiping a monster. Why would people do that?
[...]
[One] scenario is that humans in a lost space society can no longer reproduce by sex and want to develop a life cycle similar to that of the Alien. That or maybe some kind of phallocentric cult, who see in the Perfect Organism a symbol of fertility through life and death.  :laugh:


Of course we can't forget the old cliche of theistic satanism, with the Alien being interpreted by crazy folks as the antichrist or the Devil.  :P


So... they worship the Alien because it's the quintessential Cock of the Walk?

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