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Kotaku has recently interviewed Gearbox CEO about the upcoming Aliens: Colonial Marines videogame. This time Randy Pitchford talks about Gearbox’s approach to the story and how the studio plans to explain the inconsistencies between Aliens and Alien 3. Be aware of spoilers.

“One of the things we’re really proud about is that there were some things that fans like us always believed were inconsistencies between Alien3 and Aliens,” Pitchford said, “But as we dig into it, as we work with filmmakers and kind of understand it all and think about it from a logic problem point of view, there is actually a truth there that makes more sense. When we are able to use it to stitch it together, Alien3 is actually a better movie.”

You can read the full article on Kotaku.

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Nice read, what really got my attention and blood pumping though was this:

Quote"The actual game is pretty lethal. The skill test is anticipating or reacting. If you are good at anticipating and reacting you will be killing lots of xenos and you will be effective at it. You have the tools to do it. But when they get you, they frickin' get you. You'll die. You'll die a lot. I don't know if we're as far as Dark Souls. We're still tuning it, but it's going to be pretty brutal."

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I must say the game looks pretty good. Really happy to see they added Giger Aliens to the broth and that the body size of the Aliens is way better than before. I really hope they will make this game ridiculously hard since every single Warrior in the game should more or less be a near-death-experience. The only cannonfodder enemy class in the game should be eggs/facehuggers.

Egg-cellent!

looks awesome!  can't wait! 

Quote from: ikarop on May 04, 2012, 08:12:31 PM
"If you ask Ridley, he'll tell you he's certainly borrowed things from the universe... He's not developing it as true canon. There are some inconsistencies that he accepted in order for his film to be the good story he wanted to tell there. To the extent that it is part of the Aliens universe, it's prequel material. We're sequel material.

Damn it! Every single time we get quotes on how canonical 'Prometheus' is meant to be, they don't just contradict one another now, they contradict their own logic!

What is "true canon" even supposed to mean, when you also reference that it is meant to be a prequel?

QuoteAt the beginning of Alien3 something happened. We never knew what or why. But something caused them to be ejected from the Sulaco and they ended up on this prison planet.

I thought the whole uncontrollable fire thing was the obvious reason...?

I can understand someone wanting to try and make sense of where the egg came from, but this part was never a mystery.

QuoteMenacing corporation that sets up Hadley's Hope and wants to retrieve alien queen embryo would obviously track down the Sulaco and search it.

Investing in colonies is menacing? :)

QuoteVideo games tend to have higher body counts than even the most violent movies, which relegates many movie-related bad guys in games to cannon fodder. But Gearbox doesn't want to turn the fearsome xenomorphs of Alien and Alien3 into easily-swattable bugs. "We're going to need to defeat some things but we are also going to need to feel the deadliness of them," Pitchford said. "The actual game is pretty lethal. The skill test is anticipating or reacting. If you are good at anticipating and reacting you will be killing lots of xenos and you will be effective at it. You have the tools to do it. But when they get you, they frickin' get you. You'll die. You'll die a lot.

Seems to be confusing physical resilience with aggression levels.

QuoteI thought I knew the movies well, but much of what Pitchford told me here went over my head the first time. Hadley's Hope? That was were Newt lived, right? (Right.) The Derelict? We never really saw much of that, just glimpses, right?

Oh, journalists... Your ability to be easily impressed is almost endearing. :)

QuoteThis is a sequel that matters. That's clear. Hopefully, it is one worthy of the films it ties together.

Guess that's jinxed it, then...

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 04, 2012, 08:40:05 PM
I must say the game looks pretty good. Really happy to see they added Giger Aliens to the broth and that the body size of the Aliens is way better than before. I really hope they will make this game ridiculously hard since every single Warrior in the game should more or less be a near-death-experience. The only cannonfodder enemy class in the game should be eggs/facehuggers.

Agreed.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on May 04, 2012, 10:33:57 PM

QuoteI thought I knew the movies well, but much of what Pitchford told me here went over my head the first time. Hadley's Hope? That was were Newt lived, right? (Right.) The Derelict? We never really saw much of that, just glimpses, right?

Oh, journalists... Your ability to be easily impressed is almost endearing. :)

:P Indeed. Maybe he never saw the movies at all.

Nice to see Pitchford say something other than, "oh, gawd, this is so, so kewl."

I hope they're good game designers, because as storytellers they don't have a f**king clue...

And to insinuate their game makes Alien3 a better film - kinda arrogant to be honest.  Especially based on what they've said so far, which is sub fan-fic quality.

Quote from: SM on May 04, 2012, 11:37:29 PM
I hope they're good game designers, because as storytellers they don't have a f**king clue...

And to insinuate their game makes Alien3 a better film - kinda arrogant to be honest.  Especially based on what they've said so far, which is sub fan-fic quality.

Agreed. 

The basis of their story assumes too many inconsistencies itself to be credible.  On one hand, they resurrect Hadley's Hope which was completely wiped out at the end of Aliens and, as an incentive for that oversight, they attempt to explain the egg on the Sulaco in Alien3.  I'm not buying it.  Someone needs to remind GBX that they were contracted to make a video game based on Aliens and that their story needed to revolve around a different set of guidelines than a film.  They are not filmmakers and their product is not canon. 

I know it's common knowledge that the production quality of video games is nearing (if not surpassing) those of actual movies but I never thought I'd hear a CEO of a video game company actually ever try to take credit for "fixing" a film that his video game was based on.  This interview was definitely a "WOW" moment for me in that sense.

I wonder how GBX would feel if a film director took an IP like Borderlands and turned it into a live action film and said that their movie made the video game better.  What sort of a world are we entering when this kind of stuff becomes okay to say publicly?  I think it's ridiculous.

Fox made the decision to treat A:CM as canon, not gearbox. As for them making alien3 better, he was simply speaking in terms of solidifying the continuity. Again, this was a decision made by FOX, not gearbox.

Originally, they only wanted to address ALIENS, but as stated in earlier interviews, FOX made them take alien3 into consideration as well as the movie ALIENS.

---

While some fans may be of the opinion that alien3 needs no extra explanation, the fact remains that many fans still have legitimate questions as to what happened between ALIENS and Alien3.

FOX has decided to answer some of those questions, and I hope gearbox does a good service for this iconic franchise.

alien3 is crap get over it, this game will make it better.

That's not the point; the point is that they're contradicting themselves with their own stupid inconsistencies.

Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on May 05, 2012, 02:29:29 AM
That's not the point; the point is that they're contradicting themselves with their own stupid inconsistencies.

The point is that some people are being hyper critical of gearbox for things that were out of their control, without even having played the game yet. 

If the game turns out to be good even the most cynical fans should enjoy it, provided they have an open mind. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but at least get the facts straight...

Much love fellow fans :)

Quote from: SuperM on May 05, 2012, 02:25:26 AM
alien3 is crap get over it, this game will make it better.

Alien3 isn't crap and I'm sorry you feel that it is.

Anyway that's a cool interview, still looking forward to the game. ;D

QuoteThe point is that some people are being hyper critical of gearbox for things that were out of their control, without even having played the game yet. 

What precisely was out of Gearbox's control?

I agree with all Xenomorphine said (I just though the same with each single clue GB are throwing, It was just wtf is this Pitchford guy talking about lol) and then what SM said about the arrogance Pitchford is displaying by that unfortunate "Alien 3 will be a better movie" quote of his.

GB simply don't understand that targeting the hardcore nerds "Aliens" fans only, and then sharing their pathetically narrow vision of the alien universe will make them as foolish and as narrow minded as these last ones have always been. And contradictions start popping up in what this Pitchford dude speaks as well, so what is he saying about contradictions in alien 3?, lol, It's fun If you think about It :laugh:

You can not simply speak in all directions like If you were the one:  "We are making alien 3 a lot better; we're the meeenn". Man that's awful.

Their "vision" doesn't seem particularly narrow.

 "Alien3 is actually a better movie." noteworthy since its the most neglected of the 3 and it  by far held strong on the alien dna aspect of alien and fear binding. While Aliens just brought a bunch of nervous Marines into a place and things went FUBAR kind of like a b-movie slasher film.

the moment they said this game is canon then all the "BUT WE HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET!!!" comebacks got flushed down the toilet.

it's not about the freaking game anymore, that's the problem. they did this silly thing of pretending they knew more about the universe than people whose whole point in life *IS* knowing about universe. and it backfired when they ended up on the same conundrum as we've been since 1992.

Fox wanted us to believe a nuclear powered atmospheric processor was capable of producing a blast equivalent to that of a thermonuclear weapon. That is far fetched within itself. Now Fox wants us to believe the colony is partially intact, it seems.

Perhaps they should have taken shelter with the zombie facehugger in order to survive the explosion. :)

Quote from: ikarop on May 04, 2012, 08:12:31 PM
<p><a href="http://kotaku.com/5907653/the-authorized-story-of-the-next-aliens-video-game-will-change-the-way-we-see-aliens-and-alien-3">Kotaku</a> has recently interviewed Gearbox CEO about the upcoming Aliens: Colonial Marines videogame. This time Randy Pitchford talks about Gearbox's approach to the story and how the studio plans to explain the inconsistencies between Aliens and Alien 3. Be aware of spoilers.</p><p><em>"One of the things we're really proud about is that there were some things that fans like us always believed were inconsistencies between Alien3 and Aliens," Pitchford said, "But as we dig into it, as we work with filmmakers and kind of understand it all and think about it from a logic problem point of view, there is actually a truth there that makes more sense. When we are able to use it to stitch it together, Alien3 is actually a better movie."</em></p><p><!--more--></p><p><strong>Full article:</strong><em> The next Aliens video game counts. It's canon. And the people who are making it think it might finally solve some key mysteries in the film—and even make the films a bit better.</em></p><p><em>"It's all connected together," Randy Pitchford, head of Gearbox Software said to me recently, as we sat down in a convention hall in Boston to chat about Aliens: Colonial Marines, the big new game his team has been working on for several years.</em></p><p><em>The Authorized Story of the Next Aliens Video Game Will Change the Way We See Aliens and Alien3. Just before we chatted, another Gearbox developer had played an early part of Colonial Marines in front of me, blowing my mind a bit as he controlled a post-Aliens space Marine boarding the massive Sulaco. You might remember that ship from Aliens as the final battleground between an angry alien queen and a furious, mech-driving Ellen Ripley. The Marine was a member of a battalion that will be featured in the new game. He's attached to a recovery crew that links their ship to that huge, famous ship, the USS Sulaco. The Sulaco is floating in space above LV426, the planetoid on which much of James Cameron's Aliens and its predecessor, Ridley Scott's Alien, occurred.</em></p><p><em>The Marine heads into the loading bay, where the bottom half of the android Bishop lies, last seen when the alien queen ripped him apart at the end of Aliens. In this early bit, our Marine chats with some of the other recovery personnel in the bay. He heads past some monitors that just might hold hints to what really happened—what moviegoers were never told—to Ripley, Hicks and Newt between Aliens and Alien3. That's still a big question. What did happen on the Sulaco between the movie that ended with those three in cryo sleep and the next, which left two of them dead and Ripley, impregnated by Alien, ejected from the Sulaco onto the prison planet of Fury 161?</em></p><p><em>The Prometheus Connection Trailers for Ridley Scott's Prometheus movie have shown what appears to be the Derelict ship from Alien but the filmmaker has been cagey about how neatly his new movie fits into Alien lore. "On the one hand, you can feel the DNA of the Aliens franchise in it," Pitchford said of the upcoming movie. "If you ask Ridley, he'll tell you he's certainly borrowed things from the universe... He's not developing it as true canon. There are some inconsistencies that he accepted in order for his film to be the good story he wanted to tell there. To the extent that it is part of the Aliens universe, it's prequel material. We're sequel material. Having said that, the endpoint of our adventure is the Derelict which is also the starting point on LV-426 with the Space Jockeys. There is a bit of a link there."</em></p><p><em>"To make the sequel to Aliens as a video game was our prerequisite," Pitchford told me, grinning. And the studio behind the movies, 20th Century Fox, obliged. "The commitment they made was, 'Yes borrow the franchise for the purpose of doing the next story in the succession of those storylines.'"</em></p><p><em>While Pitchford stresses that his team "wants to tell a new story" and won't re-tell the films, he can't help but have the game intersect. We will board the Sulaco; we will be joined by a synthetic who was the same model as Bishop and will therefore look like and be voiced by Bishop actor Lance Henriksen; we will head down to LV426; we will check out the ruins of ruins of Hadley's Hope, the human colony set up by the Weyland-Yutani corporation after the first Alien and whose residents were annihilated by the aliens just before Aliens begins. Those aliens came from the mysterious Derelict, the space-ship seemingly driven by something called the Space Jockey and filled with alien eggs, as seen in Alien.</em></p><p><em>"We don't treat the fan-service as the point," Pitchford said. "It's not the center of it, but it's there." It's there because Aliens: Colonial Marines really does sound like the logical tale of what would happen next. It's a shooter but it is seemingly also going to be a detective story.</em><br /><em>How it all fits together</em></p><p><em>Pitchford and his team have a very good grasp on Alien series lore. They've absorbed the films, spoken to Ridley Scott, discovered back-stories that didn't make it into the films and identified what's canonical. They know What Happened and that helped them shape their story.</em></p><p><em>Here's Pitchford, with some asides from me, walking me through the fiction of Aliens and Alien3 while zeroing in on the mysteries he hopes to help players solve with the new game.</em></p><p><em>"At the end of Aliens, Ripley, Hicks, Newt and Bishop go to sleep and are presumably going home. At the beginning of Alien3 something happened. We never knew what or why. But something caused them to be ejected from the Sulaco and they ended up on this prison planet.</em></p><p><em>"The Sulaco is there at the prison planet." [Note from Stephen: Right? It's definitely not over LV426, which is where it appears to be in the start of Colonial Marines. Logically, it'd be near the planet it ejected Ripley onto.]</em></p><p><em>"Everything that Ripley dealt with on the prison planet ends with her martyring herself as Weyland-Yutani is trying to collect the specimen." [Note from Stephen: That's the end of Alien3, of course.]</em></p><p><em>"Weyland-Yutani actually ... boarded the Sulaco." [Note from Stephen: I did not know this, but it makes sense. Menacing corporation that sets up Hadley's Hope and wants to retrieve alien queen embryo would obviously track down the Sulaco and search it.]</em></p><p><em>    No Easy Bug-Hunt Video games tend to have higher body counts than even the most violent movies, which relegates many movie-related bad guys in games to cannon fodder. But Gearbox doesn't want to turn the fearsome xenomorphs of Alien and Alien3 into easily-swattable bugs. "We're going to need to defeat some things but we are also going to need to feel the deadliness of them," Pitchford said. "The actual game is pretty lethal. The skill test is anticipating or reacting. If you are good at anticipating and reacting you will be killing lots of xenos and you will be effective at it. You have the tools to do it. But when they get you, they frickin' get you. You'll die. You'll die a lot. I don't know if we're as far as Dark Souls. We're still tuning it, but it's going to be pretty brutal."</em></p><p><em>"Something happened before that Ripley doesn't know about that led to the ejection [from the Sulaco.]. If Weyland-Yutani can't get the specimen from Ripley, and they are on the ship, what would their next step be? It would be to turn the ship around and go back to the source, LV426.</em></p><p><em>"So the Sulaco gets back to LV426. Now, [in the game], we're part of the contingent that's the rescue crew. Remember, Ripley asks how long before we're overdue can we expect a rescue and Hicks says 17 days. And Hudson says something like, '17 days? We're not going to last 17 hours, man.' That creates the opening for the ship that's going to go deal with the fact that something happened. Now the Sulaco is reported destroyed. They didn't send it in 17 days, but they are going to investigate. 17 weeks later, Weyland-Yutani has had plenty of time on LV426.</em></p><p><em>"Now, LV426 is actually a moon around a ring planet. It's actually not a planet itself. But it's a big one. It's a shake-n-bake colony, so there's a bit of an atmosphere. The atmosphere processor blew [Note from Stephen: during Aliens]. That is about 3 kilometers away is where Hadley's Hope is, and it's taken a lot of damage because that was about a 40 megaton blast. About 1000 kilometers away from that is where the derelict was. That's the big ship that had all the eggs in Alien.</em></p><p><em>In this deleted scene from Aliens, a family of colonists from Hadley's Hope inspects the Derelict crash site and makes first, terrible contact with the aliens. We'll be heading out there in the new game.</em></p><p><em>"We know where Alien begins, there's a Derelict on this alien planet and we also know from Aliens that, when they finally found Ripley and Burke sent a report, that got the colonists out to see what is this. [They were told:] 'Go to this grid point, see what's there.' And that's when they stumbled into the eggs and that's when Hadley's Hope was taken over."</em></p><p><em>I thought I knew the movies well, but much of what Pitchford told me here went over my head the first time. Hadley's Hope? That was were Newt lived, right? (Right.) The Derelict? We never really saw much of that, just glimpses, right? (Right.) But the more I thought about it all, the more I looked over what Pitchford told me, the more neatly it all clicked together.</em></p><p><em>Trailer for Gearsbox's Aliens: Colonial Marines which is slated for a late 2012 release on the Xbox 360, PS3, PC, Wii U</em><br /><em>"One of the things we're really proud about is that there were some things that fans like us always believed were inconsistencies between Alien3 and Aliens," Pitchford said, "But as we dig into it, as we work with filmmakers and kind of understand it all and think about it from a logic problem point of view, there is actually a truth there that makes more sense. When we are able to use it to stitch it together, Alien3 is actually a better movie."</em></p><p><em>This is a sequel that matters. That's clear. Hopefully, it is one worthy of the films it ties together.</em></p><p><a href="http://www.avpgalaxy.net/?p=11493">Link To Post</a>

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After seeing that terrible demo at E3 or whatever it was, and now this? I honestly can't get excited for this anymore. I haven't been talking at all about this game since first hearing about it, because I honestly couldn't care less at the time, then the game started getting interesting to me for some reason after we saw screenshots and details on the game, then it didn't want to be released, then there were talks of cancellation. I just can't anymore, I want this game to be awesome, but I just don't see it happening for me.

Quote from: Predaker on May 05, 2012, 09:24:07 PM
Perhaps they should have taken shelter with the zombie facehugger in order to survive the explosion. :)

How do you know the facehugger isn't new?
Just sayin'. :)

Whole lotta people condemning elements that "don't make sense" before they have all the facts.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 06, 2012, 12:43:52 AM

Quote from: Predaker on May 05, 2012, 09:24:07 PM
Perhaps they should have taken shelter with the zombie facehugger in order to survive the explosion. :)

How do you know the facehugger isn't new?
Just sayin'. :)

Whole lotta people condemning elements that "don't make sense" before they have all the facts.

Indeed! I was just joking. I don't know where that facehugger came from and honestly, I don't really care either.

I am just ready to have a good time playing this game, as I hope we all are. I am really looking forward to the co-op and multiplayer aspects, not to mention exploring the derelict.

Quote from: acrediblesource on May 05, 2012, 07:58:11 PM
While Aliens just brought a bunch of nervous Marines into a place and things went FUBAR kind of like a b-movie slasher film.

Like Alien, then.

No. This in no way will make alien 3 "better". Nothing will ever make a movie about a bunch of pathetic prisoners better. Maybe it will clear up a few things about the beggining, and that's all fine and dandy, but it still won't make it better.

If someone said to me, "hey, we are going to release a monster into a prison loaded with a bunch of murders and rapists and your supposed to care about the people", I would have replied with, "go ahead, I'll enjoy watching garbage die, but I don't care one bit about them". 

Somehow, it's still better then resurrection.

But to get back on topic, I am still looking forward to the game, but I have a bad feeling it will be mediocre like the last avp game.  As for explaining the egg from alien 3, it will be interesting to see how that is handled.

Alien 3 isn't a bad movie it's quite entertain, of course its nothing compared with Alien and Aliens master pieces but there is still some epic moments in this movie and this moments make the movie very entertain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKY7ZFabTq8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKY7ZFabTq8#ws)
What Gearbox is trying to say is that Alien 3 will be "better explained" and this of course will make the movie better at last for me  :P.

Quote from: Valaquen on May 06, 2012, 12:58:30 AM

Quote from: acrediblesource on May 05, 2012, 07:58:11 PM
While Aliens just brought a bunch of nervous Marines into a place and things went FUBAR kind of like a b-movie slasher film.

Like Alien, then.

That's the funny part, many people don't realize that 'Alien' is essentially a B-movie that (serendipitously) got an A-movie treatment thanks to great design work, directing, and acting.

Quote from: Samus007 on May 06, 2012, 02:27:18 AM
No. This in no way will make alien 3 "better". Nothing will ever make a movie about a bunch of pathetic prisoners better. Maybe it will clear up a few things about the beggining, and that's all fine and dandy, but it still won't make it better.

I see that you didn't get or don't care about the symbolisms and themes of the film then. I agree however that there is nothing Gearbox can do to make Alien 3 better except for explaining the whereabouts of the mysterious egg in the beginning.

QuoteIf someone said to me, "hey, we are going to release a monster into a prison loaded with a bunch of murders and rapists and your supposed to care about the people", I would have replied with, "go ahead, I'll enjoy watching garbage die, but I don't care one bit about them".

I take it that you you're not a big fan of HBO shows either.

---

Quote from: Mechafist on May 06, 2012, 03:08:58 AM
Alien 3 isn't a bad movie it's quite entertain, of course its nothing compared with Alien and Aliens master pieces but there is still some epic moments in this movie and this moments make the movie very entertain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKY7ZFabTq8
What Gearbox is trying to say is that Alien 3 will be "better explained" and this of course will make the movie better at last for me  :P.

I can't for the love of god see how "explaining" the egg thing will make Alien 3 a better movie. Please explain that to me.

And btw. Alien 3 is light-years better than Aliens and right behind Alien if you ask me. Really don't get the Aliens hype and frankly it is starting to annoy the hell out of me because it is not uncommon that it is followed up by how "bad" Alien 3 is.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 06, 2012, 08:11:21 AM

Quote from: Samus007 on May 06, 2012, 02:27:18 AM
No. This in no way will make alien 3 "better". Nothing will ever make a movie about a bunch of pathetic prisoners better. Maybe it will clear up a few things about the beggining, and that's all fine and dandy, but it still won't make it better.

I see that you didn't get or don't care about the symbolisms and themes of the film then. I agree however that there is nothing Gearbox can do to make Alien 3 better except for explaining the whereabouts of the mysterious egg in the beginning.

QuoteIf someone said to me, "hey, we are going to release a monster into a prison loaded with a bunch of murders and rapists and your supposed to care about the people", I would have replied with, "go ahead, I'll enjoy watching garbage die, but I don't care one bit about them".

I take it that you you're not a big fan of HBO shows either.

---

Quote from: Mechafist on May 06, 2012, 03:08:58 AM
Alien 3 isn't a bad movie it's quite entertain, of course its nothing compared with Alien and Aliens master pieces but there is still some epic moments in this movie and this moments make the movie very entertain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKY7ZFabTq8
What Gearbox is trying to say is that Alien 3 will be "better explained" and this of course will make the movie better at last for me  :P.

I can't for the love of god see how "explaining" the egg thing will make Alien 3 a better movie. Please explain that to me.

And btw. Alien 3 is light-years better than Aliens if you ask me and right behind Alien if you ask me. Really don't get the Aliens hype and frankly it is starting to annoy the hell out of me because it is not uncommon that it is followed up by how "bad" Alien 3 is.

It depends on the hbo show.

Just because in alien 3 they "found God" doesn't mean I should magically start caring about these monsters (the cast). The one character besides ripley that was like able was Clemens, and they killed him midway.

As for alien3 being a far better film then aliens, your are entitled to your own opinion. The alien 3 being called an underrated movie really annoys the hell out of me ;D

Alien and aliens are considered by many, fans and just general movie goers, as instant classics both highly rated. Alien 3 is not. Not by a long shot.

---

Quote from: Mechafist on May 06, 2012, 03:08:58 AM
Alien 3 isn't a bad movie it's quite entertain, of course its nothing compared with Alien and Aliens master pieces but there is still some epic moments in this movie and this moments make the movie very entertain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKY7ZFabTq8
What Gearbox is trying to say is that Alien 3 will be "better explained" and this of course will make the movie better at last for me  :P.

Oh yeah, it has some really great moments. But when someone dies, I just don't care, at all. Which is sad, because in my opinion, you should care about the cast of characters.

There is no f**king atmosphere on LV-426, and there is no Hadleys hope.  Its back to Alien-status, that is to say, the derelict is there with no atmosphere.  Thats the whole f**king reason Dallas' crew were wearing space-suits.

And if my memory serves, the reason the pod was ejected from the Sullaco is because of acid causing a fire, clearly depicted in the opening credits of Alien3.

Quote from: Samus007 on May 06, 2012, 12:20:19 PM
It depends on the hbo show.

Just because in alien 3 they "found God" doesn't mean I should magically start caring about these monsters (the cast). The one character besides ripley that was like able was Clemens, and they killed him midway.

HBO shows are usually teeming with "monsters" and "garbage" who more than not are the main-characters of each show. A perfect example here would be the HBO classic OZ, where every single character is more or less the worst that society and mankind created. Yet you cared for a lot of them because in the end they were only people with really fawked up lives trying to survive in a prison. And just as you started to understand and sympathize with some character, he was  killed by one of the inmates. All the nice prison guards and prison staff quit their job, got killed or were fired only to be replaced by some really sadistic and/or corrupt megalomaniac. That was an excellent show and I know that I'm not the only one who appreciated it.

QuoteAs for alien3 being a far better film then aliens, your are entitled to your own opinion. The alien 3 being called an underrated movie really annoys the hell out of me ;D

That was not a respond to your post but to Mechafist's post.

Well, it is an underrated movie no matter whether you love Alien 3 or hate it. The reason I say that is due to the kind of mass psychosis chain-reaction that entailed its release. The almost zealously negative criticism it received, at least here in the US, was out of proportion and the years of Alien 3 bashing that followed was just as ridiculous. I know a lot of people have grown up with Aliens and had their first proverbial non-sexual hard-on when they watched Aliens the first time (me included!), so by snuffing Hix n' N00t, nixing guns altogether, bringing back the solitaire Alien, which in this installation was hunting down bald Brits in a run-down prison facility, was like being bitch-slapped followed by a kick in the groin. The logical response to this was of course to declare that Alien 3 must be the worst movie ever made from the day it was shot all the way till the end of time! Of course times have changed and more and more people have started to realize that maybe it isn't as bad as Aliens fans and critics have wanted us to think. It is different than Aliens, yes, but that doesn't make it a bad movie, it just makes it a different movie.

QuoteAlien and aliens are considered by many, fans and just general movie goers, as instant classics both highly rated. Alien 3 is not. Not by a long shot.

Well, general movie goers want some good old Hollywood entertainment and that's about it. What I'm saying is that the general movie goer would rate the Transformers movies higher than let's say Eric Rohmer's Six Moral Tales...

Aliens is highly rated, yes, and Alien 3 not so much. The reason behind this is that Cameron is Hollywood's golden boy - everybody loves his stuff - yeah! He knows exactly what fans and the general movie goers want, and here comes his true skill - he knows how to merge the two into movies that are indeed super commercial action movies that don't feel cheap and derivative, something that Michael Bay and Bruckheimer never will be able to do. Kudos to Cameron!


[/quote]Oh yeah, it has some really great moments. But when someone dies, I just don't care, at all. Which is sad, because in my opinion, you should care about the cast of characters.[/quote]

I have the same problem with Aliens as well - I don't care when the marines die. The only person I cared for, except for Ripley, was Bishop the robot.

QuoteIts back to Alien-status, that is to say, the derelict is there with no atmosphere.  Thats the whole f**king reason Dallas' crew were wearing space-suits.

The AP station blowing up isn't instantly going to undo 20 years worth of terraforming.

Bless him, Pitchford really does talk shit when he opens his mouth.

One minute he's trying desperately to convince us that Duke Nukem was an excellent game.
It wasn't.

Then he's saying that this game is canon on the level of the Alien movies.
It's not.

Then he's saying that Ridley Scott's Prometheus isn't in the same canon.
It is; Scott publicly stated that the film wasn't a prequel (by some definitions, I assume he means) but would take place in the same universe.

As for making Alien 3 a better movie...you'd have to give it a different opening, introduce sympathetic characters, and lose the grim, emo, immature nihilism that forms the bedrock of the film.
...unlikely.

Quote from: Iceycold on May 06, 2012, 11:35:19 PM
Then he's saying that this game is canon on the level of the Alien movies.
It's not.

It can be. Fox evidently thinks it is.

Quote from: Iceycold on May 06, 2012, 11:35:19 PM
Bless him, Pitchford really does talk shit when he opens his mouth.

One minute he's trying desperately to convince us that Duke Nukem was an excellent game.
It wasn't.

Then he's saying that this game is canon on the level of the Alien movies.
It's not.

Then he's saying that Ridley Scott's Prometheus isn't in the same canon.
It is; Scott publicly stated that the film wasn't a prequel (by some definitions, I assume he means) but would take place in the same universe.

As for making Alien 3 a better movie...you'd have to give it a different opening, introduce sympathetic characters, and lose the grim, emo, immature nihilism that forms the bedrock of the film.
...unlikely.

The game is canon because FOX says it is, not because of anything Randy Pitchford said.

Alien3 is emo? :laugh:

And in all my years I've never heard 'Alien3' referred to as "immature".

First time for everything I guess.

I think the concept of canonicity or whatever that has become increasingly prevalent over the past twenty or so years has become really harmful to narrative. I don't think it really matters one way or another whether ACM is "canon" unless Fox is planning to make another Alien film which takes place after Aliens/Alien 3 and is mutually exclusive with ACM. Otherwise, what difference does it make, except for fan arguments?

Ultimately it doesn't. Some people like it when stuff they enjoy is "canon", for other people it doesn't matter because they'll decide for themselves what is/is not canon anyway.

I think that's why the concept of canon is harmful... people place value on stories based upon their perceived or actual canonicity rather than their merit.

I find that in many storytelling universes, stories that I think of as "good" aren't always the ones that are canon, and the ones that are canon are sometimes "bad," and I wish canon was based more upon merit than more arbitrary reasons, or at least that canon was more aligned with my choice of good stories. I think it's mostly unfortunate when a story that is considered canon is really destructive with the sandbox -- it takes the toys off the shelf and breaks them. I think that's part of the reason why Alien 3 is so polarizing.

I prefer to think of each story as its own universe, with the influence of other stories only extending as far as the story permits. It's the optimal way to enjoy each story on its own. But I don't deny that there is a desire to categorize stories as existing as part of a cycle/saga/series.

Problem with including stories in a canon based on 'merit' or if they're 'good' is that it's too subjective.

What's really needed is for stories to be commissioned to fit within the existing established framework and continuity - and hopefully be good as well.

That generally doesn't happen with Alien.

Quote from: Samus007 on May 06, 2012, 02:27:18 AM
No. This in no way will make alien 3 "better". Nothing will ever make a movie about a bunch of pathetic prisoners better. Maybe it will clear up a few things about the beggining, and that's all fine and dandy, but it still won't make it better.

If someone said to me, "hey, we are going to release a monster into a prison loaded with a bunch of murders and rapists and your supposed to care about the people", I would have replied with, "go ahead, I'll enjoy watching garbage die, but I don't care one bit about them". 

Somehow, it's still better then resurrection.

But to get back on topic, I am still looking forward to the game, but I have a bad feeling it will be mediocre like the last avp game.  As for explaining the egg from alien 3, it will be interesting to see how that is handled.

But what about 85? He's got a wife, a kid! He goes home on the next rotation.

Quote from: SM on May 07, 2012, 03:56:35 AM
Problem with including stories in a canon based on 'merit' or if they're 'good' is that it's too subjective.

What's really needed is for stories to be commissioned to fit within the existing established framework and continuity - and hopefully be good as well.

That generally doesn't happen with Alien.

Well, my familiarity with the Alien franchise doesn't expand beyond the films -- I read the Perry trilogy a long time ago and I don't remember it beyond a very general understanding of the plot and I played a few of the AVP games but I don't remember their stories at all -- but I suppose I agree that the films themselves haven't been very respectful toward the intent of their predecessor for the purpose of storytelling opportunity, whether it be the queen alien or the deaths of Hicks and Newt.

As for merit being subjective -- I think in franchises that there are certain stories that are pretty well regarded by most, if not all. A way to approach any established franchise and set up an agreeable canon, IMO, would be to make those stories canon, and exclude the others.

Like I mentioned at the end of the second paragraph of my prior post, I think the biggest issue in any franchise is the story that takes the toys off the shelf and breaks them. Denying Hicks and Newt for future stories is asinine when you can easily write your way around it (they were put on a different EEV that doesn't crash on Fury 161). Does the emotional poignance of their deaths outweigh future storytelling potential? I don't think so. Perhaps it's a mistake on my part to be placing a higher premium on characters than the horror genre allows. But despite that I think it could have been done better. Alan Dean Foster found a way to save Newt while making her a non-factor in the overall story, and since they paid Biehn a similar salary as he received for Aliens, they could have had him come back for his character to die on-screen.

I know that in another SF franchise, the Star Wars Expanded Universe, my participation was severely reduced when they opted to similarly kill off a rather important character for the sake of a specific plotline. This type of storytelling makes me prefer there was no sense of canon because now future stories are denied access to the character.

I can't honestly see them writing off the main source material - ie. the films - in order to accommodate novels and video games.

Fox have gone this long not caring about continuity and short of Prometheus doing Avatar style business, I can't imagine that changing any time soon.

Quote from: SM on May 07, 2012, 04:39:10 AM
I can't honestly see them writing off the main source material - ie. the films - in order to accommodate novels and video games.

Fox have gone this long not caring about continuity and short of Prometheus doing Avatar style business, I can't imagine that changing any time soon.

I don't think that would happen or change either, but my desire prior to Prometheus coming to fruition was to see a Superman Returns style film reboot in which a sequel to Aliens is made in the same vein, and you could bring back Biehn and recast Newt. Other than that, you're stuck with Ripley-8 and Call and I think fans of the franchise are more invested in Hicks and Newt than them. Who knows if Sigourney would go for that type of thing also, and return as Ripley post-Aliens sans Fury-161.

At this point I don't care, although I'd be interested to see if Prometheus would feed the Alien mythos to allow more storytelling opportunities there. Despite all the talk about ACM's creators seeing the script to Prometheus, I have to wonder how much influence, if any, Prometheus has had on ACM. I think it would be infinitely more interesting if the separate threads of the Colonial Marines and the Space Jockeys came together through the Colonial Marines' investigation of the events on LV-426, rather than what I think it will be, which is that Prometheus informed ACM's usage of the derelict. Or at least have perhaps some other bioweapons in the derelict that create different creatures than the xenomorph.

But if Fox doesn't care about canon, why should we?

Quite.

Considering Prometheus seems to be bearing some striking similarities to Alien in terms of plot, it may afford them to go in an alternate direction in future films than what they did with Alien3 (obviously not with Hicks and Newt but along the expected militaristic narrative following Aliens).

Problems can arise though depending on how much they want to respect the existing Alien film continuity though.  The Alien films used the previous films as a springboard, and ignored comics and video games - twice.  If they want to maintain a potential Prometheus series in the Alien universe, it may be too restrictive. Say they went down the road of the advertised Alien3 ("On Earth everyone will hear you scream"), and the Jockeys or DNA mutants or whatever lay Earth to waste around the time of Alien or Aliens.  You end up with a serious continuity clash.

Which brings us back to:

QuoteBut if Fox doesn't care about canon, why should we?

;D

But they kinda do care about canon, or they wouldn't be taking the time to say that stuff is/isn't canon. :P

"Kinda" obviously doesn't cut it.  Otherwise they'd have someone on quality control.

Quote from: SM on May 07, 2012, 06:37:49 AM
"Kinda" obviously doesn't cut it.  Otherwise they'd have someone on quality control.

Well they do, they have a licensing department that handles it. Multiple licensees have spoken of it over the years

Just because it doesn't meet your personal standards doesn't mean they don't have standards at all, or don't care. The mere fact that stuff has to pass by their licensing department (and according to licensees, sometimes gets rejected) and the fact that they take the time to say "yes, this is canon" shows that they do care. If they didn't, they wouldn't bother saying anything at all.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 07, 2012, 08:18:55 AM

Quote from: SM on May 07, 2012, 06:37:49 AM
"Kinda" obviously doesn't cut it.  Otherwise they'd have someone on quality control.

Well they do, they have a licensing department that handles it. Multiple licensees have spoken of it over the years

Just because it doesn't meet your personal standards doesn't mean they don't have standards at all, or don't care. The mere fact that stuff has to pass by their licensing department (and according to licensees, sometimes gets rejected) and the fact that they take the time to say "yes, this is canon" shows that they do care. If they didn't, they wouldn't bother saying anything at all.

The problem is you're asking a bunch of incompetent people to decide about art.
And we've all see where this "standards" can lead (AVP&AVP-R).
They got greenlight, they got approved and are considered by FOX as the same universe since there are direct connection with Weyland & Yutani.
And dare to tell me we can take this as a Standard and strong base for the Alien universe... I dare you.

----------------------

Concerning the interview, I absolutely don't see the hype / point to reveal mysteries.
MYSTERY MADE ALIEN.
I'm really tired of this.

If Fox Licensing cared about anything other than revenues, then they'd actually make an effort to keep everything straight, with the films or other licensed media.

But the simple fact is they don't and never have.

Quote from: Le Celticant on May 07, 2012, 08:40:35 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 07, 2012, 08:18:55 AM

Quote from: SM on May 07, 2012, 06:37:49 AM
"Kinda" obviously doesn't cut it.  Otherwise they'd have someone on quality control.

Well they do, they have a licensing department that handles it. Multiple licensees have spoken of it over the years

Just because it doesn't meet your personal standards doesn't mean they don't have standards at all, or don't care. The mere fact that stuff has to pass by their licensing department (and according to licensees, sometimes gets rejected) and the fact that they take the time to say "yes, this is canon" shows that they do care. If they didn't, they wouldn't bother saying anything at all.

The problem is you're asking a bunch of incompetent people to decide about art.
And we've all see where this "standards" can lead (AVP&AVP-R).
They got greenlight, they got approved and are considered by FOX as the same universe since there are direct connection with Weyland & Yutani.
And dare to tell me we can take this as a Standard and strong base for the Alien universe... I dare you.

I really don't know what to say.

Fox considers them canon, some other people do as well (myself included). But no one is forcing you to accept them as canon, so what's the problem?

Quote from: SM on May 07, 2012, 10:27:57 AM
If Fox Licensing cared about anything other than revenues, then they'd actually make an effort to keep everything straight, with the films or other licensed media.

But the simple fact is they don't and never have.

And in the end that doesn't really matter - we can pigeonhole their reasons for what they said, but it doesn't actually change the fact that they said it.

And - funnily enough - nearly 25 years after first producing original licensed material, the continuity is messier than it's ever been.

What Fox says has no bearing on the actual material, since Fox aren't creating it.

No, but they choose to okay it for public consumption (and according to licensees, occasionally veto it or request changes).

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 07, 2012, 10:29:40 AM

Quote from: Le Celticant on May 07, 2012, 08:40:35 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 07, 2012, 08:18:55 AM

Quote from: SM on May 07, 2012, 06:37:49 AM
"Kinda" obviously doesn't cut it.  Otherwise they'd have someone on quality control.

Well they do, they have a licensing department that handles it. Multiple licensees have spoken of it over the years

Just because it doesn't meet your personal standards doesn't mean they don't have standards at all, or don't care. The mere fact that stuff has to pass by their licensing department (and according to licensees, sometimes gets rejected) and the fact that they take the time to say "yes, this is canon" shows that they do care. If they didn't, they wouldn't bother saying anything at all.

The problem is you're asking a bunch of incompetent people to decide about art.
And we've all see where this "standards" can lead (AVP&AVP-R).
They got greenlight, they got approved and are considered by FOX as the same universe since there are direct connection with Weyland & Yutani.
And dare to tell me we can take this as a Standard and strong base for the Alien universe... I dare you.

I really don't know what to say.

Fox considers them canon, some other people do as well (myself included). But no one is forcing you to accept them as canon, so what's the problem?

Spoiler

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.terratrc.org%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2FDollar.jpg&hash=1f2e6ce1e9c3fdd4115a4ae576657cab83032273)

[close]

-------

Gearbox is no exception.
They promise, promise, promise and the fan get attracted.
Just like Paul Anderson did, like Robert Rodriguez did, like the Strause Brother did, like Rebellion did.

It's funny because I said exactly the same thing for AVP Requiem, PREDATORS and AVP 2010.
I guess I'm kinda THE shadow of AVP Galaxy  :D

I'd rather not expect what Randy is telling us and that's about it.
So for "me" it is already set to not be a sequel to alien, not using all the proper material from the movies and not giving a damn in the word "Science" that is part of Science Fiction.
And no one could ever force me to accept otherwise.  :D

Agreeded Le Celticant. And whatsmore, wait and see how this once "game truthful to "Aliens" ends up being an advertising product for Kenner Alien Toys (refer to the german video of the last GB ACM show where the kenner toys where next to GB ACM stand). Now think we already have the rhino alien (crusher), the probable spyder alien Chris$$ was talking about, and well..., great right? :laugh:, all these years of awaiting our ultimate game based on Cameron's stuff for nothing.

And yeah I remember well your old "warnings" you're also talking about

@_Xenomorph: Dude, in all honesty and you know much love to you coming from us all, but..., tell us, what does It take to defend the unacceptable? ;D, I mean are you on our side or theirs?

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 06, 2012, 03:21:00 PM

Quote from: Samus007 on May 06, 2012, 12:20:19 PM
It depends on the hbo show.

Just because in alien 3 they "found God" doesn't mean I should magically start caring about these monsters (the cast). The one character besides ripley that was like able was Clemens, and they killed him midway.

HBO shows are usually teeming with "monsters" and "garbage" who more than not are the main-characters of each show. A perfect example here would be the HBO classic OZ, where every single character is more or less the worst that society and mankind created. Yet you cared for a lot of them because in the end they were only people with really fawked up lives trying to survive in a prison. And just as you started to understand and sympathize with some character, he was  killed by one of the inmates. All the nice prison guards and prison staff quit their job, got killed or were fired only to be replaced by some really sadistic and/or corrupt megalomaniac. That was an excellent show and I know that I'm not the only one who appreciated it.

QuoteAs for alien3 being a far better film then aliens, your are entitled to your own opinion. The alien 3 being called an underrated movie really annoys the hell out of me ;D

That was not a respond to your post but to Mechafist's post.

Well, it is an underrated movie no matter whether you love Alien 3 or hate it. The reason I say that is due to the kind of mass psychosis chain-reaction that entailed its release. The almost zealously negative criticism it received, at least here in the US, was out of proportion and the years of Alien 3 bashing that followed was just as ridiculous. I know a lot of people have grown up with Aliens and had their first proverbial non-sexual hard-on when they watched Aliens the first time (me included!), so by snuffing Hix n' N00t, nixing guns altogether, bringing back the solitaire Alien, which in this installation was hunting down bald Brits in a run-down prison facility, was like being bitch-slapped followed by a kick in the groin. The logical response to this was of course to declare that Alien 3 must be the worst movie ever made from the day it was shot all the way till the end of time! Of course times have changed and more and more people have started to realize that maybe it isn't as bad as Aliens fans and critics have wanted us to think. It is different than Aliens, yes, but that doesn't make it a bad movie, it just makes it a different movie.

QuoteAlien and aliens are considered by many, fans and just general movie goers, as instant classics both highly rated. Alien 3 is not. Not by a long shot.

Well, general movie goers want some good old Hollywood entertainment and that's about it. What I'm saying is that the general movie goer would rate the Transformers movies higher than let's say Eric Rohmer's Six Moral Tales...

Aliens is highly rated, yes, and Alien 3 not so much. The reason behind this is that Cameron is Hollywood's golden boy - everybody loves his stuff - yeah! He knows exactly what fans and the general movie goers want, and here comes his true skill - he knows how to merge the two into movies that are indeed super commercial action movies that don't feel cheap and derivative, something that Michael Bay and Bruckheimer never will be able to do. Kudos to Cameron!

Oh yeah, it has some really great moments. But when someone dies, I just don't care, at all. Which is sad, because in my opinion, you should care about the cast of characters.[/quote]

I have the same problem with Aliens as well - I don't care when the marines die. The only person I cared for, except for Ripley, was Bishop the robot.
[/quote]

You honestly didn't care for Hicks, Newt, or some of the others? You cared more about some rapists? Again, entitled to your own opinion for sure, but it just strikes me as odd is all.

As for OZ it was an excellent show. But I think I enjoyed it for other reasons then you. For instance, I never really 'cared' for most of the characters so much as I enjoyed the show because it was like watching a train wreck. Probably the same reason I enjoy watching J.A.I.L. and shows like that.

I actually do enjoy Alien 3, but like I said, I don't care for most of the characters. For me, there was no redemption for the prisoners of Alien 3.... any chance of that was broken when one stood up and claimed he was a murderer and rapist of women. It doesn't matter if they found god or whatever, there was never going to be sympathy or a feeling that these people can help. I will never forget what I thought when I left the theater in 92 after seeing Alien 3, "Well, that was entertaining, but no where near as good as the first two". Alien 3 is better now, yes, thanks to the "directors cut", but it's still has the same issues for me. Senseless killings of Hicks and Newt and a bunch of characters that are "garbage". I will always wish that A3 went a different direction. IMO.

---

Quote from: Le Celticant on May 07, 2012, 12:25:34 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 07, 2012, 10:29:40 AM

Quote from: Le Celticant on May 07, 2012, 08:40:35 AM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 07, 2012, 08:18:55 AM

Quote from: SM on May 07, 2012, 06:37:49 AM
"Kinda" obviously doesn't cut it.  Otherwise they'd have someone on quality control.

Well they do, they have a licensing department that handles it. Multiple licensees have spoken of it over the years

Just because it doesn't meet your personal standards doesn't mean they don't have standards at all, or don't care. The mere fact that stuff has to pass by their licensing department (and according to licensees, sometimes gets rejected) and the fact that they take the time to say "yes, this is canon" shows that they do care. If they didn't, they wouldn't bother saying anything at all.

The problem is you're asking a bunch of incompetent people to decide about art.
And we've all see where this "standards" can lead (AVP&AVP-R).
They got greenlight, they got approved and are considered by FOX as the same universe since there are direct connection with Weyland & Yutani.
And dare to tell me we can take this as a Standard and strong base for the Alien universe... I dare you.

I really don't know what to say.

Fox considers them canon, some other people do as well (myself included). But no one is forcing you to accept them as canon, so what's the problem?

Spoiler

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.terratrc.org%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2FDollar.jpg&hash=1f2e6ce1e9c3fdd4115a4ae576657cab83032273)

[close]

-------

Gearbox is no exception.
They promise, promise, promise and the fan get attracted.
Just like Paul Anderson did, like Robert Rodriguez did, like the Strause Brother did, like Rebellion did.

It's funny because I said exactly the same thing for AVP Requiem, PREDATORS and AVP 2010.
I guess I'm kinda THE shadow of AVP Galaxy  :D

I'd rather not expect what Randy is telling us and that's about it.
So for "me" it is already set to not be a sequel to alien, not using all the proper material from the movies and not giving a damn in the word "Science" that is part of Science Fiction.
And no one could ever force me to accept otherwise.  :D

Thats the sad truth right there.

God, why couldn't we just have another planet with Aliens on it instead of trying to justify returning to LV426 and the Sulaco.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 07, 2012, 02:25:01 AM
And in all my years I've never heard 'Alien3' referred to as "immature".

First time for everything I guess.

It's writer said "I killed off Newt because she annoyed me!"
That was mature, was it?

Apart from that; A3 is the sort of film pretentious art students make out of sheer dissatisfaction with their own lives. The "happy ending" of Aliens is done away with, replaced with an angsty teen attitude of "life sucks then you die!"

Heroic, or at least sympathetic or relatable characters are disposed of and replaced by...shock!...murderers and rapists. What a bold move! Oooh, how controversial are we, A3 makers? How cutting edge? But also, because we shouldn't judge, one of them is actually a nice guy in the movie! How great are we?

Please.

Add in the total rejection of logic and continuity (as depicted by Aliens) in the first ten minutes, add in endless swearing, and the result? A movie made by moody, rebellious teenagers who like the concept of the Alien but hate the  way it's been executed. It's so puerile it's embarrassing.

QuoteYou honestly didn't care for Hicks, Newt, or some of the others? You cared more about some rapists? Again, entitled to your own opinion for sure, but it just strikes me as odd is all.

I'm not sympathizing with rapists, child molesters and murderers if that is what you're implying. I cared for them as people within the context of the situation because they felt like real people with real lives - really screwed up lives formed through horrible choices which have brought them to where they are. All vile people but still people nevertheless.

QuoteAs for OZ it was an excellent show. But I think I enjoyed it for other reasons then you. For instance, I never really 'cared' for most of the characters so much as I enjoyed the show because it was like watching a train wreck. Probably the same reason I enjoy watching J.A.I.L. and shows like that.

I watched it for the same reason, but on top of that I also "cared" for a handful of the characters despite their despicable backgrounds. That is what I love about HBO - complex characters that are beyond good and evil, forced to live their lives the way they do because the choices the made, choices forced on them by an indifferent society without any responsibility for their actions... Something like that. It is interesting, it is engaging.

QuoteI actually do enjoy Alien 3, but like I said, I don't care for most of the characters. For me, there was no redemption for the prisoners of Alien 3.... any chance of that was broken when one stood up and claimed he was a murderer and rapist of women. It doesn't matter if they found god or whatever, there was never going to be sympathy or a feeling that these people can help. I will never forget what I thought when I left the theater in 92 after seeing Alien 3, "Well, that was entertaining, but no where near as good as the first two". Alien 3 is better now, yes, thanks to the "directors cut", but it's still has the same issues for me. Senseless killings of Hicks and Newt and a bunch of characters that are "garbage". I will always wish that A3 went a different direction. IMO.

And I respect your opinion and I see your point of view even though I don't share it. The reason I started discussing the whole thing with you is due to the random wanton bashing of Alien 3 which is pretty common when you deal with Aliens fans, which I find extremely annoying. I also find extremely cheap and trashy when one of the guys (Randy Pitchford - an Aliens fan) working with a canonized sequel to Aliens/Alien 3 talk shit about Alien 3 like that. Kind of unnerving if you ask me.

---

Quote from: Iceycold on May 07, 2012, 02:56:40 PM
It's writer said "I killed off Newt because she annoyed me!"
That was mature, was it?

That doesn't make the movie immature, only the writer.

QuoteApart from that; A3 is the sort of film pretentious art students make out of sheer dissatisfaction with their own lives. The "happy ending" of Aliens is done away with, replaced with an angsty teen attitude of "life sucks then you die!"

Don't wanna sound smug but that really cracked me up! Did we even watch the same movie??? Sure, I can see how a disappointed Aliens fan might find Alien 3 to be pretentious (if one doesn't like something it is easy to choose to (mis)interpret ambitious for pretentious), but ridden with "angsty teen attitude" etc. I don't get at all. If anything is pubertal and immature then it is the super hero cartoon ending of Aliens.

QuoteHeroic, or at least sympathetic or relatable characters are disposed of and replaced by...shock!...murderers and rapists. What a bold move! Oooh, how controversial are we, A3 makers? How cutting edge? But also, because we shouldn't judge, one of them is actually a nice guy in the movie! How great are we?

Please

Please what?

QuoteAdd in the total rejection of logic and continuity (as depicted by Aliens) in the first ten minutes, add in endless swearing, and the result? A movie made by moody, rebellious teenagers who like the concept of the Alien but hate the  way it's been executed. It's so puerile it's embarrassing.

Wow, you really hate Alien 3 don't you? Out of all the Alien 3 bashing yours is the most inventive. Kudos to you!

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 07, 2012, 03:18:24 PM
That doesn't make the movie immature, only the writer.

...the writer who writes the film, putting his feelings and thought processes into the script. The truth behind Newt's death is NOT artistic, but pettiness, and the rest of the movie is often very immature as well.

Quote
Don't wanna sound smug but that really cracked me up! Did we even watch the same movie???

QuotePlease what?

Why don't you try sounding like less of a twat to your fellow poster, eh? I've said nothing to you personally to deserve that.

QuoteSure, I can see how a disappointed Aliens fan might find Alien 3 to be pretentious (if one doesn't like something it is easy to choose to (mis)interpret ambitious for pretentious), but ridden with "angsty teen attitude" etc. I don't get at all.

Firstly, I'm a fan of Alien and Aliens, so I can appreciate something a bit more ambiguous than "guns go bang. Aliens go dead now."
Secondly, don't act superior and claim my opinions are based on deliberate misinterpretation. I've stated why I find the film puerile; things happen for the sake of proving over and over that "there's point to anything." It's childish in a different way than Alien Resurrection was, but still immature.

Quote
If anything is pubertal and immature then it is the super hero cartoon ending of Aliens.

In your description of the ending of "Aliens", you reveal your own biases and opinions. You like Alien 3 better than Aliens? Fine. Sounds to me like your A3's target audience, who liked the concept but thought it was done "wrong before."

This movie jars very, very distinctly with what came before, in tone, consistency and, yes, AMBITION. Aliens expanded the universe. Alien 3 said the universe was shit, we're all going to die so what the hell. This childish film revels in its own cynicism like a pig in shit.

...And yet, ironically, A3 is actually incongruent with itself, by having its ending where the company doesn't get the queen.

QuoteWow, you really hate Alien 3 don't you? Out of all the Alien 3 bashing yours is the most inventive. Kudos to you!

Another childish, derogotary comment? "Bashing?" No, criticising, based on it's own merits (or lack thereof) and the films that came before this sequel.

Quote from: Iceycold on May 07, 2012, 04:06:02 PM
...the writer who writes the film, putting his feelings and thought processes into the script. The truth behind Newt's death is NOT artistic, but pettiness, and the rest of the movie is often very immature as well.

It can be both petty and artistic at the same time; the idea of getting rid of Newt in the script might come from pettiness whereas the actual writing and the way to deal with it is artistic. Pettiness can be an artistic drive even though it is not the most flattering one.

Still not getting the immaturity thing you're talking about.

QuoteWhy don't you try sounding like less of a twat to your fellow poster, eh? I've said nothing to you personally to deserve that.

I didn't offend you (at least not in my eyes) or call you any names. You on the other hand just called me a "twat".

QuoteFirstly, I'm a fan of Alien and Aliens, so I can appreciate something a bit more ambiguous than "guns go bang. Aliens go dead now."
Secondly, don't act superior and claim my opinions are based on deliberate misinterpretation. I've stated why I find the film puerile; things happen for the sake of proving over and over that "there's point to anything." It's childish in a different way than Alien Resurrection was, but still immature.

First of all you should cool down. I'm not trying to act superior and stuff, I'm just fed up with Aliens fans taking every opportunity they get to take a dump on Alien 3.

Sure, Alien 3 is incredibly bleak and cynical, but it is also full of hope and faith as the prisoners and Reipley fight till the end and manages to rob W&Y on their prize. The inmates are not feeling sorry for themselves and stuff like that, they are just trying to survive and maintain some kind of everyday kind of life. There is not a speck of self-pity here. Not even Clemens seems to go down that path (i.e. being "emo"). They have lived there for years coming to terms with their pasts and are now trying to go forward with the help of Dillon's take on Christianity. And Ripley, who lost everything, didn't give up despite everything... Seriously, I just don't see that immature teenage emo crap you're getting at.

QuoteThis movie jars very, very distinctly with what came before, in tone, consistency and, yes, AMBITION. Aliens expanded the universe. Alien 3 said the universe was shit, we're all going to die so what the hell. This childish film revels in its own cynicism like a pig in shit.

Not according to me. Cameron turned the Alien creature into a giant Termite and exchanged down-to-earth action and characters for bombastic Hollywood action and caricatures, and the list goes on...

Still not getting your obsession about Alien 3 being childish and immature.

Quote...And yet, ironically, A3 is actually incongruent with itself, by having its ending where the company doesn't get the queen.

How is that incongruent? It shows that Ripley's sacrifice paid off. She killed the Alien by taking her own life instead of listening to the comapany's lies thus denying the them what they had desired to get their grubby hands on for so long. The prisoners did something for humanity before "checking out", even if it was by the barrel of a gun. They fought and they won. A bittersweet victory but a victory nevertheless.

So how is that incongruent?

QuoteAnother childish, derogotary comment?

No, not a derogatory comment at all. I genuinely find your take on why you hate Alien 3 different from the standardized Alien 3 bashing formula you hear so often around here and from people like Mr. Pitchford.

Quote"Bashing?" No, criticising, based on it's own merits (or lack thereof) and the films that came before this sequel.

Those "merits" are your interpretation of Aliens 3, which is a movie you seem to hate deeply considering what you have written on this thread so far.

I love Alien. It is my favorite Alien movie. Aliens have aged really badly with me and I like it less every time I watch it while it is the complete opposite thing when it comes to Alien 3 - it gets better with age and I like it more and more every time I watch it. A:R I don't bother with. In case you want to know where I stand when it comes to the Alien movies...

QuoteI'm not sympathizing with rapists, child molesters and murderers if that is what you're implying. I cared for them as people within the context of the situation because they felt like real people with real lives - really screwed up lives formed through horrible choices which have brought them to where they are. All vile people but still people nevertheless.

That sorta is sympathizing ;) but, I do get what you are trying to say. I need to add this though, again, my opinion, those are not 'real people', they're no less monsters then the alien itself.

Quotesuper hero cartoon ending of Aliens

I must say, that's the first time i've heard it put like that. lol.

QuoteI'm just fed up with Aliens fans taking every opportunity they get to take a dump on Alien 3.

I am a HUGE fan of one and two, and I can even watch three from time to time and somewhat enjoy it, like I have said before. I'm not dumping on Alien3 so much as pointing out its obvious flaws. And things that IMO make it pale in comparison to one and two. Resurrection on the other hand is terrible and almost unwatchable. :)

QuoteNot according to me. Cameron turned the Alien creature into a giant Termite and exchanged down-to-earth action and characters for bombastic Hollywood action and caricatures, and the list goes on...

Now see, what I think Cameron did was brilliant. Instead of giving is the same formula as the first film, he turned it all on it's head but still managed to make it fit right in and make it more exciting then the first. Sure, the terror is still there and not to the degree of the first film, but if he just did what Scott did it would have been somewhat boring and repetitive. And everyone loves a good military movie ;) Well, I guess not everybody.  ;D

'Alien3' is my favorite in the series and even I think SpreadEagleBeagle is unfairly dumping on 'Aliens' quite a bit.

Quote from: Le Celticant on May 07, 2012, 12:25:34 PM
I'd rather not expect what Randy is telling us and that's about it.
So for "me" it is already set to not be a sequel to alien, not using all the proper material from the movies and not giving a damn in the word "Science" that is part of Science Fiction.
And no one could ever force me to accept otherwise.  :D

To be fair none of the movies gave much regard to the "science" in science fiction either. :P

But you're right, no one can (or should) force you to accept otherwise. :)

Quote from: Iceycold on May 07, 2012, 02:56:40 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 07, 2012, 02:25:01 AM
And in all my years I've never heard 'Alien3' referred to as "immature".

First time for everything I guess.

It's writer said "I killed off Newt because she annoyed me!"
That was mature, was it?

I'm absolutely going to need a citation for this because this is the first time I've heard it.

QuoteApart from that; A3 is the sort of film pretentious art students make out of sheer dissatisfaction with their own lives. The "happy ending" of Aliens is done away with, replaced with an angsty teen attitude of "life sucks then you die!"

Yeah but it's thematically appropriate given that they intended to end the series, and the message they wanted to convey was "there are no happy endings when Aliens are involved". I don't really see a problem with it.

QuoteAdd in the total rejection of logic and continuity (as depicted by Aliens) in the first ten minutes, add in endless swearing, and the result? A movie made by moody, rebellious teenagers who like the concept of the Alien but hate the  way it's been executed. It's so puerile it's embarrassing.

Just wanted to point out that there really isn't any swearing in the movie until Morse's "f**k!" after Andrews gets killed.
The only real profanity up to that point is Ripley's "well... we're f**ked" after learning they don't have any weapons, and Andrews' response.

Quote from: Samus007 on May 06, 2012, 12:20:19 PM
Just because in alien 3 they "found God" doesn't mean I should magically start caring about these monsters (the cast). The one character besides ripley that was like able was Clemens, and they killed him midway.

What is the problem about the Alien 3 cast? Burke sacrifices a entire colony for money, he also tried to kill Ripley and Newt but we still care for him as a character...Private Tim Crowe, Trevor Wierzbowsk, Corporal Collette Ferro, Daniel Spunkmeyer and Ricco Frost died and we piratically don't know nothing about them.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 06, 2012, 08:11:21 AM

I can't for the love of god see how "explaining" the egg thing will make Alien 3 a better movie. Please explain that to me.

Well to be sincere i don't know too but let's give gearbox a chance... ;D
We've seen only three gameplay videos and a few information from magazines and we are already criticizing them.

But i understand it sounds kind of offensive for the people who liked Alien 3.

-----
Almost forgot, hi all!
Call me "Mechafist"  ;)

QuoteWhat is the problem about the Alien 3 cast? Burke sacrifices a entire colony for money and tried to kill Ripley and Newt, we still care for him as a character...Private Tim Crowe, Trevor Wierzbowsk, Corporal Collette Ferro, Daniel Spunkmeyer and Ricco Frost died and we piratically don't know nothing about them.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't give a crap what happened to Burke. I wish I could have watched the alien burst out of his chest. I don't think we were ever meant to STILL LIKE him after it was revealed he was a dirtbag company man. As for Crowe, Wierzbowski, Ferro and the others that died during those events we were meant to care for them because they are soldiers and not rapists. Also, they died early on enough that it didn't really matter and none of them were 'main' characters like Vasquez, Ripley, Hicks, Newt, Gorman (somewhat), Hudson, and Bishop. As for alien3, we are meant to care about the doctor (killed to early) and a bunch of inmates that survived till the later half of the film. Well, and 85. I cannot for the life of me ever give two s*its about rapists and murderers. Not ever.

Quote from: Samus007 on May 07, 2012, 05:51:13 PM

QuoteWhat is the problem about the Alien 3 cast? Burke sacrifices a entire colony for money and tried to kill Ripley and Newt, we still care for him as a character...Private Tim Crowe, Trevor Wierzbowsk, Corporal Collette Ferro, Daniel Spunkmeyer and Ricco Frost died and we piratically don't know nothing about them.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't give a crap what happened to Burke. I wish I could have watched the alien burst out of his chest. I don't think we were ever meant to STILL LIKE him after it was revealed he was a dirtbag company man. As for Crowe, Wierzbowski, Ferro and the others that died during those events we were meant to care for them because they are soldiers and not rapists. Also, they died early on enough that it didn't really matter and none of them were 'main' characters like Vasquez, Ripley, Hicks, Newt, Gorman (somewhat), Hudson, and Bishop. As for alien3, we are meant to care about the doctor (killed to early) and a bunch of inmates that survived till the later half of the film. Well, and 85. I cannot for the life of me ever give two s*its about rapists and murderers. Not ever.

Alien3 did not ask the audience to like rapists, murders, etc. IMO. They were humanizing them. Bad humans yes, but still human. In other words, the world is not as black and white as some would have us believe.

It fits with the movies touching upon the audiences subconscience. Ripley is trying to stay alive, fighting alongside people who we normally treat with disdain and disgust. That added undertones of "somebody might get raped in this movie" which also adds to the tension. It made a lot of people uncomfortable, to say the least.

Quote from: Predaker on May 07, 2012, 06:20:28 PM

Quote from: Samus007 on May 07, 2012, 05:51:13 PM

QuoteWhat is the problem about the Alien 3 cast? Burke sacrifices a entire colony for money and tried to kill Ripley and Newt, we still care for him as a character...Private Tim Crowe, Trevor Wierzbowsk, Corporal Collette Ferro, Daniel Spunkmeyer and Ricco Frost died and we piratically don't know nothing about them.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't give a crap what happened to Burke. I wish I could have watched the alien burst out of his chest. I don't think we were ever meant to STILL LIKE him after it was revealed he was a dirtbag company man. As for Crowe, Wierzbowski, Ferro and the others that died during those events we were meant to care for them because they are soldiers and not rapists. Also, they died early on enough that it didn't really matter and none of them were 'main' characters like Vasquez, Ripley, Hicks, Newt, Gorman (somewhat), Hudson, and Bishop. As for alien3, we are meant to care about the doctor (killed to early) and a bunch of inmates that survived till the later half of the film. Well, and 85. I cannot for the life of me ever give two s*its about rapists and murderers. Not ever.

Alien3 did not ask the audience to like rapists, murders, etc. IMO. They were humanizing them. Bad humans yes, but still human. In other words, the world is not as black and white as some would have us believe.

It fits with the movies touching upon the audiences subconscience. Ripley is trying to stay alive, fighting alongside people who we normally treat with disdain and disgust. That added undertones of "somebody might get raped in this movie" which also adds to the tension. It made a lot of people uncomfortable, to say the least.

Well, it made me cheer for the Alien is what it did.

Instead of calling this game a true sequel to ALIENS, maybe they should have used the line, "this game will be a true Colonial Marines experience" and left it at that.

Quote from: Predaker on May 07, 2012, 07:15:59 PM
Instead of calling this game a true sequel to ALIENS, maybe they should have used the line, "this game will be a true Colonial Marines experience" and left it at that.

I think they've said that, too. :P

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 07, 2012, 07:27:21 PM

Quote from: Predaker on May 07, 2012, 07:15:59 PM
Instead of calling this game a true sequel to ALIENS, maybe they should have used the line, "this game will be a true Colonial Marines experience" and left it at that.

I think they've said that, too. :P

...it wasn't enough of a slogan to Pitchford, he just had to squirt some lighter-fluid showing every broham out there that he is a TRUE fan.

Be vewwy, vewwy, wawwy of people who use the term "TRUE fan" without irony.

I don't think that calling ACM a "true sequel" to Aliens is really anymore of a dig toward Alien 3 than if Ridley were to do another Alien film that he called a "true sequel" to Alien as being a dig toward Aliens. The Alien trilogy are just three films that are very different than their predecessors, and ACM is informed by Aliens more than the other two.

Quote from: SM on May 07, 2012, 10:49:50 PM
Be vewwy, vewwy, wawwy of people who use the term "TRUE fan" without irony.

People still say that?!

QuoteI can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't give a crap what happened to Burke. I wish I could have watched the alien burst out of his chest.

You do realise that you wanting to watch an Alien burst out of his chest show you DO in fact "give a crap".  The fact you wanted to see him get his comeuppance shows he did his job as a bad guy.

Exactly. You don't have to like the characters or agree with what they say and do, but the movie has done its job if you're at least interested in what happens to those characters.

Quote from: Barringer on May 07, 2012, 11:21:54 PM
I don't think that calling ACM a "true sequel" to Aliens is really anymore of a dig toward Alien 3 than if Ridley were to do another Alien film that he called a "true sequel" to Alien as being a dig toward Aliens. The Alien trilogy are just three films that are very different than their predecessors, and ACM is informed by Aliens more than the other two.

Very true. Some folks here just take things out of context for no other reason than to bash a game they have not played yet.

Haters gonna hate. True fan? Lol  :D Yes let's hate on Randy Pitchford for saying he is a true fan. /sarcasm

The haters are really reaching hard now.

Quote from: SM on May 07, 2012, 11:37:37 PM

QuoteI can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't give a crap what happened to Burke. I wish I could have watched the alien burst out of his chest.

You do realise that you wanting to watch an Alien burst out of his chest show you DO in fact "give a crap".  The fact you wanted to see him get his comeuppance shows he did his job as a bad guy.

You missed the point. I don't give a crap about him as someone to care for. As in likeable like, say, newt. Yes, he did do his job of making me hate him, JUST Like I have been saying about the cast of alien 3. They did a good job of making me want to watch them die, by being murderers and rapist.

Except the cast of Alien3 are nothing like Burke.

Quote from: SM on May 08, 2012, 01:05:04 AM
Except the cast of Alien3 are nothing like Burke.

Burke was somewhat likable up until he was ratted out by ripley as the traitor and the one who sent the colony to the derelict. Had burke been a rapist and murderer right from the beginning of the movie I would have hated him right off the bat. Just like I do with those characters in alien 3.

And in the end, they sort of are somewhat the same. Burke murdered hundreds of people and tried to get ripley and newt face raped. Most of the cast of alien 3 raped and murder who knows how many people.

In Alien 3 I thought some of the characters were the inverse of Burke. Junior and Morse both tried to rape Ripley but ultimately both "redeemed" themselves in some fashion, at least in the Assembly Cut.

The problem with the prisoners is that we don't see firsthand the bad stuff they did, apart from the aforementioned rape scene. It's easier to dislike Burke for his sleaziness than it is some prisoner that we don't know what he did.

Quote from: Barringer on May 08, 2012, 01:15:28 AM
In Alien 3 I thought some of the characters were the inverse of Burke. Junior and Morse both tried to rape Ripley but ultimately both "redeemed" themselves in some fashion, at least in the Assembly Cut.

The problem with the prisoners is that we don't see firsthand the bad stuff they did, apart from the aforementioned rape scene. It's easier to dislike Burke for his sleaziness than it is some prisoner that we don't know what he did.

And to me, that makes them all the much harder to care for. Knowing they are all murders or have all done very violent crimes (which is the reason they are there) makes it very difficult to like them at all. I can't 'root' for people like that. Ever.

QuoteIn Alien 3 I thought some of the characters were the inverse of Burke. Junior and Morse both tried to rape Ripley but ultimately both "redeemed" themselves in some fashion, at least in the Assembly Cut.

Morse didn't try to rape Ripley.

And therein lies one of the films major flaws.  Can't tell the bald f**kers apart.

Morse was the f**ker with the pointy ears and nose right

Quote from: SM on May 08, 2012, 01:29:00 AM

QuoteIn Alien 3 I thought some of the characters were the inverse of Burke. Junior and Morse both tried to rape Ripley but ultimately both "redeemed" themselves in some fashion, at least in the Assembly Cut.

Morse didn't try to rape Ripley.

And therein lies one of the films major flaws.  Can't tell the bald f**kers apart.

Yes, very true. I always had a problem with that. Wasn't really necessary as it didn't drive the story anywhere. They could have done away with the lice issue and all just had hair.

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Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on May 08, 2012, 01:31:55 AM
Morse was the f**ker with the pointy ears and nose right

He was this one.. http://www.filmsite.org/fotos/alien3_9.jpg (http://www.filmsite.org/fotos/alien3_9.jpg)

Junior and Gregor tried to rape her

I thought it was a great stylistic decision, but one that ultimately backfired.  They might've been better off having more of a racial mix.  Throw in an Indian, a Hispanic and an east Asian perhaps.

or give them iconic tattoos.

and i was joking with that, Morse is my favorite character. after clemens.

Quoteor give them iconic tattoos.

That too.

Big Maori face tat.

Things like that would have been great ideas. Anything to help tell the characters apart better. I've seen it enough that I can tell them apart now, for the most part, lol. But the first few times I saw the film when it was released it was hard to tell them apart.

I really don't like trashing Alien 3, because I've spent the past fifteen years doing that and if anything over time my opinion of it has improved, but I feel like Ripley was made bald to mask the deficiency in a lack of character arc for her. The baldness of the prisoners is a side effect of that. I just watched Alien 3 assembly cut last week, as well as the documentary that was on the blu-ray, and Sigourney says how in an exec meeting they asked Fincher how he sees Ripley in the film and he replies "Bald" with a shrug, and Sigourney laughs about that, but that really strikes me as an absence of any idea where to take the character.

Ripley has an arc - it just doesn't really kick in until Clemens and Andrews are killed and she finds herself in charge.  Which is halfway through the film, and she, and the film are a bit directionless until that point.

Quote from: SM on May 08, 2012, 04:34:17 AM
Ripley has an arc - it just doesn't really kick in until Clemens and Andrews are killed and she finds herself in charge.  Which is halfway through the film, and she, and the film are a bit directionless until that point.

Well, I'm interested in any redeeming qualities this film has, but how is her arc in being in charge in this film different than in Aliens?

The underlying hostility of those she leads.  That wasn't in Aliens - she earned the marines trust by driving in after them.

But it's more the attitude of "We have to kill it".  There's no escape in this one.  In Alien it's we have to kill it; no, now we have to get away from it.  In Aliens it's much the same.  Problem comes halfway through the second half when she finds out about the Queen she's carrying.  The attitude has to shift from "We have to kill it" to "We have to kill it AND me".  Gone is "I got you, you son of a bitch" and "Get away from her, you bitch" defiance and it's replaced by "I want you to kill me.  No prayers" resignation

She goes from someone who will fight to the very last to being resigned that she's going to die.  In the workprint, the old attitude resurfaces when she considers Bishop II's offer for 40+ seconds.  In the AC and TC the decision is made more or less in an instant and there's no consideration of going back.

Is the workprint available anywhere?

Possibly on Youtube.  Or via Torrents.  Or 25th generation VHS (which is what I have).

But they did, they gave them tattoos...

Not iconic ones of course but if you know what the "tear" means you will know at least more about Gregor, the tear probably indicates that he killed one person.

The baldness (and the religious elements) is probably a symbolic carryover from the "wooden planet" script draft where all the prisoners were originally monks.

Quote from: Mechafist on May 08, 2012, 01:16:22 PM
But they did, they gave them tattoos...

Not iconic ones of course but if you know what the "tear" means you will know at least more about Gregor, the tear probably indicates that he killed one person.

I think you're talking about Junior.

Again same problem.

Boggs had a big crucifix on his forehead - which is difficult to see because of his skin colour.  Right idea - wrong dude.

Gregor had the barcode tattoo on the back of his head, Junior had the tear drop, right?

All prisoners - current or former - had barcodes.

Gregor was a non entity until Dillon beat the shit out of him and he had to wear that bandage on his head.

Quote from: SM on May 08, 2012, 10:50:10 PM
I think you're talking about Junior.

My bad  :P...

Quote from: SM on May 06, 2012, 11:07:46 PM

QuoteIts back to Alien-status, that is to say, the derelict is there with no atmosphere.  Thats the whole f**king reason Dallas' crew were wearing space-suits.

The AP station blowing up isn't instantly going to undo 20 years worth of terraforming.

Oh.  I don't have your experience in terraforming, silly me.

Well he's right - if the AP station is pumping stuff into the air for 20 years, enough to let people breathe unassisted, having the station go away isn't going to make all that breathable air just vanish instantly.

Scenes like the ending of Total Recall come to mind...  :D lol

Funny how quicky Arnold was able to breathe once the machines started pumping air into the sky.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 10, 2012, 04:12:38 PM
Well he's right - if the AP station is pumping stuff into the air for 20 years, enough to let people breathe unassisted, having the station go away isn't going to make all that breathable air just vanish instantly.

yes but the heat output of the AP ceasing would drop the temperature way below living conditions.

Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on May 10, 2012, 04:18:34 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 10, 2012, 04:12:38 PM
Well he's right - if the AP station is pumping stuff into the air for 20 years, enough to let people breathe unassisted, having the station go away isn't going to make all that breathable air just vanish instantly.

yes but the heat output of the AP ceasing would drop the temperature way below living conditions.

Better put on your Colonial Marines hoodie, then. It's going to be chilly!

i'm saying it again, that portion of the game should be played using SEVA suits.

seriously, not only it would make sense(radiation, cold), it would also add a lot of atmosphere and would be a nice call back to Alien.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 10, 2012, 04:12:38 PM
Well he's right - if the AP station is pumping stuff into the air for 20 years, enough to let people breathe unassisted, having the station go away isn't going to make all that breathable air just vanish instantly.

Wouldn't be that sure given the hostile nature of the Acheron atmosphere and weather. I'm not saying the air should  be no breathable already when this ACM regiment arrives, but I think shortly after, like two or three months max and breathing on that moon should not be that easy.

I'm more concerned about the radiation left by the lolexplosion, and we see the marines over there so happily without wearing similar suits to those WY flamethrower units often wear.

James Cameron gets the shaft every time.  First, Fox took a massive dump on his characters with the storyline for Alien3.  Then, they wouldn't let him return to the series because they wanted to release AvP instead of a film that followed Alien: Resurrection.  Now the success of everything his characters accomplished in Aliens is getting dumped on with A:CM. 

The oddest thing about all of this is that his film is a benchmark for the series and for science fiction in general yet everything that he established in Aliens has slowly been dismantled by poorly-imagined sequels over the last 25 years and (now) a poorly-imagined video game.

I am curious to know why exactly they decided to resurrect Hadley's Hope and the AP. They could have done parts of the game on LV-426 without going back to the exact same place. I can accept the derelict survivng, but why bother trying to explain HH and the AP? Pure fan service? Did FOX make the final decision on this or what?

Quote from: Predaker on May 10, 2012, 04:49:48 PM
I am curious to know why exactly they decided to resurrect Hadley's Hope and the AP. They could have done parts of the game on LV-426 without going back to the exact same place. I can accept the derelict survivng, but why bother trying to explain HH and the AP? Pure fan service? Did FOX make the final decision on this or what?

I think it's pure fan service, to bring us back to someplace familiar I guess. I'm not a huge fan of the idea myself, but I guess we shall see soon.

Quote from: Predaker on May 10, 2012, 04:49:48 PM
I am curious to know why exactly they decided to resurrect Hadley's Hope and the AP. They could have done parts of the game on LV-426 without going back to the exact same place. I can accept the derelict survivng, but why bother trying to explain HH and the AP? Pure fan service? Did FOX make the final decision on this or what?

Even more simple than that, why not make the game in Fury 161?

Quote from: Mechafist on May 10, 2012, 05:47:53 PM

Quote from: Predaker on May 10, 2012, 04:49:48 PM
I am curious to know why exactly they decided to resurrect Hadley's Hope and the AP. They could have done parts of the game on LV-426 without going back to the exact same place. I can accept the derelict survivng, but why bother trying to explain HH and the AP? Pure fan service? Did FOX make the final decision on this or what?

Even more simple than that, why not make the game in Fury 161?

Yeah I think the game had potential to go to several other places instead of Hadley's Hope while still being a solid game. No idea who had the final word on that decision.

BTW, welcome to the forums mechafist!!! :)

Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on May 10, 2012, 04:18:34 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 10, 2012, 04:12:38 PM
Well he's right - if the AP station is pumping stuff into the air for 20 years, enough to let people breathe unassisted, having the station go away isn't going to make all that breathable air just vanish instantly.

yes but the heat output of the AP ceasing would drop the temperature way below living conditions.

Why? The atmosphere processor was only pumping atmosphere, it wasn't warming the planet up. We don't even know how cold the planet was in 'Alien', merely that the native atmosphere wasn't breathable.

Quote from: Ash 937 on May 10, 2012, 04:35:12 PM
James Cameron gets the shaft every time.  First, Fox took a massive dump on his characters with the storyline for Alien3.  Then, they wouldn't let him return to the series because they wanted to release AvP instead of a film that followed Alien: Resurrection.  Now the success of everything his characters accomplished in Aliens is getting dumped on with A:CM. 

The oddest thing about all of this is that his film is a benchmark for the series and for science fiction in general yet everything that he established in Aliens has slowly been dismantled by poorly-imagined sequels over the last 25 years and (now) a poorly-imagined video game.

This is the silliest, spergiest post I've seen in this thread so far. Nothing in 'Aliens' has been undone, and the movie still exists and people can (and do) still enjoy it.
And it wasn't that FOX wouldn't let him come back, he said he would do another movie if AvP wasn't made (and even then we don't know how serious he actually was, and after 'AvP' came out he watched it and enjoyed it).

Deep cold. Ash said it. LV-426 was in primordial state.

Yeah, and the atmosphere processor going away isn't going to immediately plunge it into a new ice age. Maybe over a long period of time the temperature would drop, but I don't see a problem with it still being habitable within the timeframe of Colonial Marines.

and the radiation left by the explosion?, not a problem too I guess.

Seriously, you are the man

Future reactors (that shouldn't explode anyway) might not give off the same radiation.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 10, 2012, 06:06:22 PM

Quote from: Ash 937 on May 10, 2012, 04:35:12 PM
James Cameron gets the shaft every time.  First, Fox took a massive dump on his characters with the storyline for Alien3.  Then, they wouldn't let him return to the series because they wanted to release AvP instead of a film that followed Alien: Resurrection.  Now the success of everything his characters accomplished in Aliens is getting dumped on with A:CM. 

The oddest thing about all of this is that his film is a benchmark for the series and for science fiction in general yet everything that he established in Aliens has slowly been dismantled by poorly-imagined sequels over the last 25 years and (now) a poorly-imagined video game.

This is the silliest, spergiest post I've seen in this thread so far.

You need to approach the way you begin posts in way that are a bit more constructive imo.  It's fine if you express a counter point with evidence as a rebuttal to what others say but its not cool to be offensive about it.  I often like the points you make here and respect your posts because they are often so well thought out.  But when you begin your responses like this, its just not in good form.  You made me cry a little, actually.   :'(

I guess I'm not sure how to respond to it because ultimately it's just so unreasonable. Like, there's no way for me to be reasonable or constructive with you about it if that's seriously the approach you're taking to the topic and that's what you really believe.

'Aliens' is still a beloved classic, and the "lore" hasn't done anything to damage or negate it. It killed off some characters, but that doesn't make 'Aliens' itself any less of a triumph. Keeping Hadley's Hope around for another round of Alien madness isn't a bad thing either, especially if Gearbox is looking to pay tribute to 'Aliens' and give players the opportunity to revisit locations from the movie and relive some of the iconic moments.

It's like the rides at Universal Studios, they pay homage to the movies and let people "live" them.

Quote from: Sully on May 10, 2012, 12:17:30 PM

Quote from: SM on May 06, 2012, 11:07:46 PM

QuoteIts back to Alien-status, that is to say, the derelict is there with no atmosphere.  Thats the whole f**king reason Dallas' crew were wearing space-suits.

The AP station blowing up isn't instantly going to undo 20 years worth of terraforming.

Oh.  I don't have your experience in terraforming, silly me.

That's okay.  You're not the first nor will you be the last to say something silly.

Quote from: Predaker on May 10, 2012, 04:49:48 PM
I am curious to know why exactly they decided to resurrect Hadley's Hope and the AP. They could have done parts of the game on LV-426 without going back to the exact same place. I can accept the derelict survivng, but why bother trying to explain HH and the AP? Pure fan service? Did FOX make the final decision on this or what?

I still have the original Gameinformer Announcement mag, and it seems they've always intended on going the current direction with the "resurrecting" Hadley's Hope, having the Sulaco, Derelict, etc. I think the only possible thing that is missing is the planned Fury 161 level(which they consulted with Fincher about btw, It's right there in the mag) but who knows maybe they are hiding that from us. I won't miss it.

I am glad that the Derelict made it in, the way they made it sound in the mag made it seem like it was going to be a big part of the endgame. And I am happy that a lot of what I've seen of the game seems to match up with what they said they were making minus some discrepancies that I can't really be too upset about as at the very least, it seems like this is closer to a true CM experience.

Quotethe planned Fury 161 level(which they consulted with Fincher about btw, It's right there in the mag)

Wait seriously? And he didn't tell them to go f**k themselves? I mean I thought it was pretty well-known that Fincher hates talking about Alien3.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 14, 2012, 07:14:38 AM

Quotethe planned Fury 161 level(which they consulted with Fincher about btw, It's right there in the mag)

Wait seriously? And he didn't tell them to go f**k themselves? I mean I thought it was pretty well-known that Fincher hates talking about Alien3.

It's right here in the mag, and yeah he just glossed over some design stuff nothing too serious. I'm talking like concept art and unused background Mattes and stuff, they just wanted to know a bit more about Fury 161 and the Prison Colony there.

That's pretty awesome that Fincher actually helped them out, though. :)

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 14, 2012, 07:14:38 AM

Quotethe planned Fury 161 level(which they consulted with Fincher about btw, It's right there in the mag)

Wait seriously? And he didn't tell them to go f**k themselves? I mean I thought it was pretty well-known that Fincher hates talking about Alien3.

Out of all the directors involved in constructing the Alien universe, Fincher had the least creative control over adding anything new to it.  It would be somewhat humorous to find out that while this is one of the few times he opened up to give some insight about what he thought that world should look like that it gets completely scrapped from the final product.  I think it would be reason enough for him continue telling people to go f**ck themsevles in the future.   :-\

Btw guys I was thinking about something. Maybe they altered the Aliens ending a bit too. Lets say the opening of ACM is how the dropship fly away but the explosion is not that bigger or something like that (its up to them) and then we see "XX weeks later" screen and here we go the badasses arrive!

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 14, 2012, 06:04:05 PM
That's pretty awesome that Fincher actually helped them out, though. :)

Yeah, it was nifty reading about that they even talked to JC briefly but it seems they mostly went with Ridley for consultation.

I mean they said that after they talked with Fincher they learned a crapload about Alien 3 and what could've been, and how much larger the complex actually is.

They said something to the effect that was the last time Fincher seemed to be open to talking about it, so they got as much as they could but seeing as how that level/chapter/act seems to be cut is a real spit in the face to Fincher. It almost seemed like he could've gotten more of his vision to the audiences through this game but alas much like Alien 3's production it seems that it just didn't pan out.

Quote from: Ash 937 on May 14, 2012, 06:23:24 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 14, 2012, 07:14:38 AM

Quotethe planned Fury 161 level(which they consulted with Fincher about btw, It's right there in the mag)

Wait seriously? And he didn't tell them to go f**k themselves? I mean I thought it was pretty well-known that Fincher hates talking about Alien3.

Out of all the directors involved in constructing the Alien universe, Fincher had the least creative control over adding anything new to it.  It would be somewhat humorous to find out that while this is one of the few times he opened up to give some insight about what he thought that world should look like that it gets completely scrapped from the final product.  I think it would be reason enough for him continue telling people to go f**ck themsevles in the future.   :-\

Yeah I feel pretty much the same way, as much as I don't like Alien 3 in any of its incarnations he got the short end of the stick to say the least, shafted by two industries on the same subject matter...TWICE. ouch Fincher.

EDIT: I might see about doing some scans and digging out the issue again. The original article is no longer around, and I feel some people need a refresher.

Well if Colonial Marines sells well I wouldn't be surprised if they cranked out a sequel and included some of the Fury 161 stuff.

Quote from: HicksUSCM on May 14, 2012, 06:29:13 PM
Btw guys I was thinking about something. Maybe they altered the Aliens ending a bit too. Lets say the opening of ACM is how the dropship fly away but the explosion is not that bigger or something like that (its up to them) and then we see "XX weeks later" screen and here we go the badasses arrive!

This gave me an idea for an opening sequence for A:CM.

The Drop Ship flies away and out of view, you see the explosion, the intro music slowly creeps in and quietly, then the explosion fades slowly revealing the remains of the colony and AP. While that is happening the title screen fades into view in the very ALIEN and ALIENSish fashion ending with the I in ALIENS lighting up the entire screen.

QuoteI mean they said that after they talked with Fincher they learned a crapload about Alien 3 and what could've been, and how much larger the complex actually is.

That's hardly a secret.  We see that big Blade Runner landscape exterior and Aaron says the place is "ten miles square" (ie. covers 100 square miles).

I don't remember Aaron saying that, but the place did look damn huge from some of the exterior shots we see in the movie.

Quote from: SM on May 14, 2012, 10:53:34 PM

QuoteI mean they said that after they talked with Fincher they learned a crapload about Alien 3 and what could've been, and how much larger the complex actually is.

That's hardly a secret.  We see that big Blade Runner landscape exterior and Aaron says the place is "ten miles square" (ie. covers 100 square miles).

My point, and to a more important extent Gearbox's point was that we would get to see those familiar areas from the film but so much more than that.

And my point is Fincher isn't giving away secrets about the film in that regard.  Since they aren't secrets to begin with.

If he gave them a map or something (like the one briefly gilmpsed in the film) and they used that, then THAT would be sweet.

I don't know anything about the multiplayer, but if the maps in multiplayer are not reused maps from the singleplayer/co-op, perhaps Fury 161 is in the game in that format?

I can't think of any reason why the storyline should take us to Fury 161.  But then again, if someone announced that any new Aliens game was being released tomorrow, I wouldn't expect it to logically take us back to LV-426 again either.  But that's what we are getting...so who knows if Fury will be there or not.

Maybe they will use it as a multiplayer map, if Fury 161 is not in the campaign. Like Barringer mentioned. ;)

Quote from: Predaker on May 15, 2012, 04:01:16 PM
Maybe they will use it as a multiplayer map, if Fury 161 is not in the campaign. Like Barringer mentioned. ;)

And that's really all I am hoping for.  Plus, if GBX really did consult with Fincher on this then they should at least make a mulitplayer map out of the insight they acquired. 

As others pointed out, it isn't everyday that Fincher comes out to discuss Alien3.  Just like how they are using Syd Mead's blueprints for the Sulaco to reconstruct parts of the ship that were never filmed, I think that GBX should take the same approach with Fury 161.

Considering their open resent towards Alien 3 I doubt they will show any love for Fury 161 like that.

Quote from: Ash 937 on May 15, 2012, 04:10:56 PM

Quote from: Predaker on May 15, 2012, 04:01:16 PM
Maybe they will use it as a multiplayer map, if Fury 161 is not in the campaign. Like Barringer mentioned. ;)

And that's really all I am hoping for.  Plus, if GBX really did consult with Fincher on this then they should at least make a mulitplayer map out of the insight they acquired. 

As others pointed out, it isn't everyday that Fincher comes out to discuss Alien3.  Just like how they are using Syd Mead's blueprints for the Sulaco to reconstruct parts of the ship that were never filmed, I think that GBX should take the same approach with Fury 161.

ya same here, hoping for alien MP too. All I'd like to ask GB If I had the chance is to not make It as bright as It was in avp2. There was an amazing custom alien3 map for avp2 featured in the ump2 also. Can't remember the name exactly but It was similar to the original but with extra rooms, friggin' dark, and quite a big lag in some certain locations too because of the size.

That was one of the things that bugged me the most about avp2. Too much light man, and I hope GB goes something similar to doom3, critical for the atmosphere, and more If those space tiny toons fail that much at being scary, among other things because of the size, and also their f**king new sounds. Sometimes sound like frogs when dying man. They suck and fail big time both

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 15, 2012, 04:25:44 PM
Considering their open resent towards Alien 3 I doubt they will show any love for Fury 161 like that.

I don't think they resent alien3 so much as there is nothing really there for them to adapt into the game campaign. The main influence comes from ALIENS and their main focus appears to be the colonial marines above all else.

It seemed to me that it was the various people conducting these interviews that mention alien3, which illicited forced smiles from Randy or one of the dev team. Alien3 can be a touchy subject for many fans, as I am sure they are aware. It was probably not the wisest choice of words for him to say they will make alien3 better, but honestly I don't think he meant any harm by it. He was just trying to pump up the game because parts of it intend to solidfy the continuity between ALIENS and Alien3. They didn't openly bash the movie, they are just trying to portray the game in a good light. Poor choice of words, perhaps, but not hating on Alien3. ;)

Edit: When Angry Joe started bashing on Alien3, the dev in that interview probably couldn't do much more than bite his tongue, smile and nod. It wouldn't look good for them to be argumentative about something petty during any interview involving the game, regardless of who is right or wrong.

Will we be seeing Morse in this game?The Company took him from fury 161...
Maybe they use him as a host in A:CM  :P

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 15, 2012, 04:25:44 PM
Considering their open resent towards Alien 3 I doubt they will show any love for Fury 161 like that.

They didn't resent the whole movie, they mentioned legitimate problems with the opening to the movie. Between the facehugger(s) out of nowhere and killing off Hicks and Newt in the first 3 minutes, the movie didn't do a whole lot to endear itself to audiences, especially those who'd enjoyed 'Aliens'.

'Alien3' is my favorite Alien movie and even I am able to recognize that it's got significant problems.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 15, 2012, 07:44:16 PM

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 15, 2012, 04:25:44 PM
Considering their open resent towards Alien 3 I doubt they will show any love for Fury 161 like that.

They didn't resent the whole movie, they mentioned legitimate problems with the opening to the movie. Between the facehugger(s) out of nowhere and killing off Hicks and Newt in the first 3 minutes, the movie didn't do a whole lot to endear itself to audiences, especially those who'd enjoyed 'Aliens'.

'Alien3' is my favorite Alien movie and even I am able to recognize that it's got significant problems.

Really, it only has a few problems when viewed as a sequel to ALIENS. As a stand alone movie, I think Alien3 was superb.

When you connect it to ALIENS, that's where things get touchy. Newt and Hicks die, for example. Also the mystery of the egg on the Sulaco. No explanation was given, and that type of mystery did not add to the alien universe like the space jockey did. The egg mystery did more harm than good by weakening the continuity of the franchise.

Alien3 might not have given everyone what they wanted (more colonial marines), but it was still an awesome movie. Alien:Res was a B rated movie though, and the franchise deserved better than that.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 15, 2012, 07:44:16 PM
They didn't resent the whole movie, they mentioned legitimate problems with the opening to the movie. Between the facehugger(s) out of nowhere and killing off Hicks and Newt in the first 3 minutes, the movie didn't do a whole lot to endear itself to audiences, especially those who'd enjoyed 'Aliens'.

'Alien3' is my favorite Alien movie and even I am able to recognize that it's got significant problems.

I know, the movie got problems and it is indeed flawed, which is one of the things that makes it great, which is something that Pitchford & Co don't seem to grasp as they ridiculously claim their 'canon' video game will fix those flaws and make a 'better' movie (!). They have no clue what they're talking about. Stuff like that alienate them from a large portion of the Alien fan-base and don't make you trust them really as they seem no better than IMDB Aliens fanboys.

Why can't they just act a little professional and keep it to themselves?

Oh I know why, they want to portray themselves as fellow bros and Aliens fans hoping that we will identify and like them enough to buy five copies each when the game comes out... "Huh huh, Alien 3 suxors, worst movie evurrh *nudge nudge*... Gimme five bra'!"

But that's not what they're doing at all, especially since they didn't say Alien3 sucks. ???

As mentioned, they pointed out significant flaws - the mystery egg out of nowhere is a flaw, and it's one that has bothered both fans and casual audiences for literally two decades now. Addressing it in some fashion isn't a bad thing. It's not like they're going to retcon out Hicks' death and have him blasting away Aliens or something.

QuoteStuff like that alienate them from a large portion of the Alien fan-base

Considering the current results of the "ACM & canon" thread poll, it looks like more people support them than don't. It didn't matter what they did, something would alienate some of the fan-base. That's the nature of fandom, it's completely unavoidable. 'Aliens' alienated some of the fandom of 'Alien' (you're an example, too). 'Alien3' alienated some of the fandom of 'Aliens'. Colonial Marines is bound to not satisfy everyone, but it's not like they're retconning Alien3 out of existence. They're fixing an actual problem with the movie.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 15, 2012, 08:09:10 PMOh I know why, they want to portray themselves as fellow bros and Aliens fans hoping that we will identify and like them enough to buy five copies each when the game comes out... "Huh huh, Alien 3 suxors, worst movie evurrh *nudge nudge*... Gimme five bra'!"

that without even mention what the problems he's are talking about with alien3 are. The two eggs mystery? ROFLMAO

Pitchford has always had pros and cons. His pros have always been how excited, to the point he behaves like a kid when promoting his stuff at GB becomes. I guess there can be opinions on about this, but to me that has always been a good sign coming from a human being whoever he/she is. That simply proves he is at least exicted about what he's doing wheter the game ends up being another steaming pile of horse dung like avp2010 or not.

The con obviously is he talk too much, and ends up screwing things up. Yes, I'm talking about a big mouth. He clearly said that stupid thing in a clear call for arms of the "Aliens" radical fanboy base. Yes, those who wonder about egg mysteries in alien3 and elusive facehuggers aboard sulaco without even thinking there was a queen in aliens there ROFL.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt till I got my hands on this product, for now, just shut up Randy when talking about things you don't even understand, and focus on speaking about ACM only ;)

QuoteYes, those who wonder about egg mysteries in alien3 and elusive facehuggers aboard sulaco without even thinking there was a queen in aliens there ROFL.

That's one of the better explanations, but it's far from airtight. The biggest problem in the movie was the egg's placement - how did it get affixed to the underside of a table or something? It would have been a non-issue if the movie had the egg attached to the landing strut of the dropship or something (the Alien3 bluray does this, incidentally).
The official FOX line when 'Alien3' came out was literally "the audience isn't supposed to ask about the egg and where it came from". I'm not making that up.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 15, 2012, 08:20:26 PM
But that's not what they're doing at all, especially since they didn't say Alien3 sucks. ???

As mentioned, they pointed out significant flaws - the mystery egg out of nowhere is a flaw, and it's one that has bothered both fans and casual audiences for literally two decades now. Addressing it in some fashion isn't a bad thing. It's not like they're going to retcon out Hicks' death and have him blasting away Aliens or something.

QuoteStuff like that alienate them from a large portion of the Alien fan-base

Considering the current results of the "ACM & canon" thread poll, it looks like more people support them than don't. It didn't matter what they did, something would alienate some of the fan-base. That's the nature of fandom, it's completely unavoidable. 'Aliens' alienated some of the fandom of 'Alien' (you're an example, too). 'Alien3' alienated some of the fandom of 'Aliens'. Colonial Marines is bound to not satisfy everyone, but it's not like they're retconning Alien3 out of existence. They're fixing an actual problem with the movie.

I know that I sound pretty melodramatic at times. What I was trying to say here was that when you are a game developer and you're dealing with a franchise with a very diverse fan base - diverse in the sense when it comes to what the fans like about the movie(s) - you better behave. There is no need to belittle, patronize or talk shit about Alien 3 or A:R. That's just lame.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 15, 2012, 08:40:11 PMThe biggest problem in the movie was the egg's placement - how did it get affixed to the underside of a table or something? It would have been a non-issue if the movie had the egg attached to the landing strut of the dropship or something (the Alien3 bluray does this, incidentally).

Do you mean to say that there is an entirely different shot of the egg on-board the Sulaco for the blu-ray edition of Alien3???

I don't own a blu-ray player so this would be news to me.  Do you have a pic of this shot?

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 15, 2012, 08:55:31 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 15, 2012, 08:20:26 PM
But that's not what they're doing at all, especially since they didn't say Alien3 sucks. ???

As mentioned, they pointed out significant flaws - the mystery egg out of nowhere is a flaw, and it's one that has bothered both fans and casual audiences for literally two decades now. Addressing it in some fashion isn't a bad thing. It's not like they're going to retcon out Hicks' death and have him blasting away Aliens or something.

QuoteStuff like that alienate them from a large portion of the Alien fan-base

Considering the current results of the "ACM & canon" thread poll, it looks like more people support them than don't. It didn't matter what they did, something would alienate some of the fan-base. That's the nature of fandom, it's completely unavoidable. 'Aliens' alienated some of the fandom of 'Alien' (you're an example, too). 'Alien3' alienated some of the fandom of 'Aliens'. Colonial Marines is bound to not satisfy everyone, but it's not like they're retconning Alien3 out of existence. They're fixing an actual problem with the movie.

I know that I sound pretty melodramatic at times. What I was trying to say here was that when you are a game developer and you're dealing with a franchise with a very diverse fan base - diverse in the sense when it comes to what the fans like about the movie(s) - you better behave. There is no need to belittle, patronize or talk shit about Alien 3 or A:R. That's just lame.

The devs and/or Randy Pitchford never did any of that, though. Some of the people conducting the interviews did.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 15, 2012, 08:55:31 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 15, 2012, 08:20:26 PM
But that's not what they're doing at all, especially since they didn't say Alien3 sucks. ???

As mentioned, they pointed out significant flaws - the mystery egg out of nowhere is a flaw, and it's one that has bothered both fans and casual audiences for literally two decades now. Addressing it in some fashion isn't a bad thing. It's not like they're going to retcon out Hicks' death and have him blasting away Aliens or something.

QuoteStuff like that alienate them from a large portion of the Alien fan-base

Considering the current results of the "ACM & canon" thread poll, it looks like more people support them than don't. It didn't matter what they did, something would alienate some of the fan-base. That's the nature of fandom, it's completely unavoidable. 'Aliens' alienated some of the fandom of 'Alien' (you're an example, too). 'Alien3' alienated some of the fandom of 'Aliens'. Colonial Marines is bound to not satisfy everyone, but it's not like they're retconning Alien3 out of existence. They're fixing an actual problem with the movie.

I know that I sound pretty melodramatic at times. What I was trying to say here was that when you are a game developer and you're dealing with a franchise with a very diverse fan base - diverse in the sense when it comes to what the fans like about the movie(s) - you better behave. There is no need to belittle, patronize or talk shit about Alien 3 or A:R. That's just lame.

What about the AvP movies? Is shit-talking those okay? Because it happens nearly non-stop on these forums. :P Just sayin'.

And like I said, he wasn't belittling 'Alien3', he was talking about a legitimate problem that most people have with Alien3, even fans of the movie.

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 15, 2012, 09:09:38 PM

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 15, 2012, 08:55:31 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 15, 2012, 08:20:26 PM
But that's not what they're doing at all, especially since they didn't say Alien3 sucks. ???

As mentioned, they pointed out significant flaws - the mystery egg out of nowhere is a flaw, and it's one that has bothered both fans and casual audiences for literally two decades now. Addressing it in some fashion isn't a bad thing. It's not like they're going to retcon out Hicks' death and have him blasting away Aliens or something.

QuoteStuff like that alienate them from a large portion of the Alien fan-base

Considering the current results of the "ACM & canon" thread poll, it looks like more people support them than don't. It didn't matter what they did, something would alienate some of the fan-base. That's the nature of fandom, it's completely unavoidable. 'Aliens' alienated some of the fandom of 'Alien' (you're an example, too). 'Alien3' alienated some of the fandom of 'Aliens'. Colonial Marines is bound to not satisfy everyone, but it's not like they're retconning Alien3 out of existence. They're fixing an actual problem with the movie.

I know that I sound pretty melodramatic at times. What I was trying to say here was that when you are a game developer and you're dealing with a franchise with a very diverse fan base - diverse in the sense when it comes to what the fans like about the movie(s) - you better behave. There is no need to belittle, patronize or talk shit about Alien 3 or A:R. That's just lame.

What about the AvP movies? Is shit-talking those okay? Because it happens nearly non-stop on these forums. :P Just sayin'.

And like I said, he wasn't belittling 'Alien3', he was talking about a legitimate problem that most people have with Alien3, even fans of the movie.

I admit that I haven't been that clear about who exactly it is that I'm talking about here. Sorry about that!
I'm referring to all the A:CM related videos and articles I've seen and read so far, including the stuff said by Pitchford.

If they made an AVP game I would find it very odd if they started bashing AvP:R. Of course I would've thought it was amusing since I don't like AvP:R, but I would still think it was very unprofessional of them to bash one of the installments from the franchise they're dealing with.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 15, 2012, 09:31:31 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 15, 2012, 09:09:38 PM

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 15, 2012, 08:55:31 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 15, 2012, 08:20:26 PM
But that's not what they're doing at all, especially since they didn't say Alien3 sucks. ???

As mentioned, they pointed out significant flaws - the mystery egg out of nowhere is a flaw, and it's one that has bothered both fans and casual audiences for literally two decades now. Addressing it in some fashion isn't a bad thing. It's not like they're going to retcon out Hicks' death and have him blasting away Aliens or something.

QuoteStuff like that alienate them from a large portion of the Alien fan-base

Considering the current results of the "ACM & canon" thread poll, it looks like more people support them than don't. It didn't matter what they did, something would alienate some of the fan-base. That's the nature of fandom, it's completely unavoidable. 'Aliens' alienated some of the fandom of 'Alien' (you're an example, too). 'Alien3' alienated some of the fandom of 'Aliens'. Colonial Marines is bound to not satisfy everyone, but it's not like they're retconning Alien3 out of existence. They're fixing an actual problem with the movie.

I know that I sound pretty melodramatic at times. What I was trying to say here was that when you are a game developer and you're dealing with a franchise with a very diverse fan base - diverse in the sense when it comes to what the fans like about the movie(s) - you better behave. There is no need to belittle, patronize or talk shit about Alien 3 or A:R. That's just lame.

What about the AvP movies? Is shit-talking those okay? Because it happens nearly non-stop on these forums. :P Just sayin'.

And like I said, he wasn't belittling 'Alien3', he was talking about a legitimate problem that most people have with Alien3, even fans of the movie.

I admit that I haven't been that clear about who exactly it is that I'm talking about here. Sorry about that!
I'm referring to all the A:CM related videos and articles I've seen and read so far, including the stuff said by Pitchford.

If they made an AVP game I would find it very odd if they started bashing AvP:R. Of course I would've thought it was amusing since I don't like AvP:R, but I would still think it was very unprofessional of them to bash one of the installments from the franchise they're dealing with.

Gearbox did not bash any of the movies. Some of the people interviewing them did, but not gearbox. They hyped up the game, and that is what the interviews are for. The interviews were not about their personal opinions, it was all hype for the upcoming game.

I think they themselves have said that some of the people at GBX love ALIEN 3 while others dislike it basically the same as these forums.

I guess I'm being oversensitive.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on May 15, 2012, 10:30:24 PM
I guess I'm being oversensitive.

It's probably best to wait for the actual game to come out and judge it on its own merits/flaws. :)

Quote from: Ash 937 on May 15, 2012, 08:57:02 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on May 15, 2012, 08:40:11 PMThe biggest problem in the movie was the egg's placement - how did it get affixed to the underside of a table or something? It would have been a non-issue if the movie had the egg attached to the landing strut of the dropship or something (the Alien3 bluray does this, incidentally).

Do you mean to say that there is an entirely different shot of the egg on-board the Sulaco for the blu-ray edition of Alien3???

I don't own a blu-ray player so this would be news to me.  Do you have a pic of this shot?

No.  It's just the menu for the disk.  There's a schematic of the dropship and it pops up with "foreign material" or something and it focuses on the rear landing gear well as the location of the egg.

As for retunring to Fiorina - it's a more logical place to return than a smoking crater; oops I mean magically restored colony.

Quote from: SM on May 15, 2012, 10:53:26 PM
As for retunring to Fiorina - it's a more logical place to return than a smoking crater; oops I mean magically restored colony.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKzjsv.jpg&hash=fb404baa307d3535776f8ab8dae214efaffa98ca)

Once upon a time GB talked about a more than probable return to Fiorina in ACM...

We might see a multiplayer map on Fiorina 161, but probably not in the campaign. Unless that is where the sequel happens. ;)

To take this another direction, I have to express my feelings.

This game, especially in light of the most recent delay, could be one of the biggest heartbreakers in fan history.

I mean, it's obvious that if the game fails, it won't be due to lack of effort.  With all of the shiz that GBX has done so far, and their apparent enthusiasm for the game, I think they've already proved that they're going to give this the old college try.  I mean Syd Mead, talking to Ridley about Prometheus, the film grains, it's just an above-and-beyond effort for a game based on a 26 year old film...

If it bombs, it will be because of improper focus.  Too much emphasis on recreating every single thing in Aliens, including the colony (lololo), and having fancy additions like the dynamic lighting system and not enough effort put towards the meat of the game, which is gameplay, a solid, replayable campaign, and tight, well-done multiplayer.

I'm just worried that all of their enthusiasm will carry them off in the wrong direction.

Hopefully this delay is in part due to all of this effort going into the graphics and atmosphere, so that they have enough time to devote to critical game elements and making sure they get the basics right.

The thing I really took away from the latest trailer is that the game looks like 'Aliens' if 'Aliens' were made today with an infinite budget. It's got a huge cast (reads: huge body-count), an insane amount of apparent "set-piece" battles that would have been largely impractical or too expensive to put in 'Aliens'.

The linchpin in this comparison is James Cameron's quality as a filmmaker/storyteller. He actually got audiences to give a shit about the characters and build tension and mood. We'll see how Gearbox fares in that department.

at this point RD, I'm not seeing those factors as signs of true dedication anymore, but as fan-servicing gimmicks. i feel like we haven't been shown a real deal of what the actual game is about(as you said, the gameplay), and unlike Prometheus, it's very bad when a game doesn't want to show you something of such importance.

my enthusiasm got slashed in half when i learned that this was going to be a co-op game as it means i will never get to play the game to it's full extent; first, i do not have the hardware or connection to make a co-op game work flawlessly, second, i do not have the time to organize a game, i am available at very odd hours and days; third, i absolutely suck at pronouncing and i am very hard to understand over the mike in Spanish, let alone in English, and i don't know anyone who will buy and play this game that lives even in the same continent; and fourth, i am very anti social and detest the way some people play and prefer doing things my way, relaxed, without having to work with a team when I'm trying to enjoy the campaign.

i have competitive multiplayer for that, i want the campaign to be a thing for myself. and i know i could do just that, but then the rest of the marines become worthless NPCs i can't make use of because there seems to be no order system whatsoever, nor any tactical elements, which was, incidentally, the only reason this game originally caught my attention some years ago. oh bother.

so now i have a game that i will never get to play like it was meant to; that fail(ed) to expand the universe in a meaningful way and all it does is awkwardly stumble around the setting in an irrelevant mix of fanservice and unimaginative marketing decisions; that reeks of consoleitis, from the railed and minuscule sections of the campaign we saw, to the slow and synthetic movement and ludicrous contextual actions and QTEs, to the presence of hit boxes and fixed spawn points of the aliens, to the goddamn field of view...

and that i can't even get in time?

I will play with you at odd hours.  ;D I can dig a relaxed approach. Games are supposed to be fun first and foremost.

Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on May 22, 2012, 03:45:17 AMi do not have the hardware or connection to make a co-op game work flawlessly

what's your rig specs and internet connection

I concur with the rest you say