Alien TV Series From Noah Hawley and Ridley Scott CONFIRMED

Started by Nukiemorph, Dec 10, 2020, 11:03:29 PM

Author
Alien TV Series From Noah Hawley and Ridley Scott CONFIRMED (Read 209,992 times)

TC

TC

#840
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 29, 2021, 11:52:03 AM
I don't really see the Iron Man nano-tech armor as being magic. That's science in the same vein as the T-1000's abilities in Terminator 2: Judgement Day.

I guess so. But what makes the "science" in T2 acceptable is the careful explanation of the limits governing the T1000's morphing abilities (no complex parts like a gun or a bomb, just stabbing and cutting weapons). Explaining the limits of your futuristic tech is an important part of science fiction storytelling, and Cameron read enough sci-fi as a kid to know the rules.

Re: the pathogen. One of the things that captured my attention with Alien '79 is how "down-to-earth" the setting is (forgive the contradiction of terms). Truck drivers in space, blue collar workers, steam pipes and relief valves, everyone works in their shirt sleeves etc. This was all very relatable to us in the late 20th Century. The marines fire projectile weapons, not laser guns; there's no "transporter" for teleporting you down to the planet, no "replicator" for magicking up any food you desire. The story 'verse of Alien (and Aliens) is not very far from our own. Everything is grounded in a real-world sensibility. I think this was an integral part of the tonal texture of the story world that O'Bannon wrote. 

And the same thing applied to the creature itself. There's a quote somewhere in which he says the alien was not a monster gifted with supernatural abilities. Rather, he intended a believable, alien animal that had a logical biology with a decipherable life cycle. Not some creature that if you dismembered it and chucked off your spaceship at 10,000 feet, that its limbs would hit the ground and magically reconstitute itself.

I prefer the O'Bannon take that we saw in Alien '79.

And as much as i like Prometheus and Covenant, for me, they do not play in the same sandbox.


Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 29, 2021, 12:49:20 PM
I am missing the organism (possibly with acidic blood) growing from 50 cm to 2 m in less than 24 hours, not to mention the food source for the already impossible process for a vertebrate organism of that size.

And here we are back to the ole' "scientific inaccuracies in the films" topic. LOL!

The difference is that these cases you bring up, and others besides, are flaws, plain and simple (some knowingly made, others out of ignorance), whereas what I'm talking about is a lack of understanding of the storytelling craft itself, specifically as it pertains to science fiction. You must address the audience's big questions about the capabilities and limitations of your newly author-invented tech.

If the question is only small, i.e. obscure and minor (such as how a chestburster grows into an adult), then the writer will probably choose not to derail the momentum of the story by adding the complexity that the explanation will require. OTOH, if the question is so egregious that it harms the audience's immersion in the entire story, then that explanation is necessary. In the case of T2, the audience needed to know what the abilities of the T1000 were in order to understand the threat and gauge our heroes' chances of defeating it. That engaged our interest in their plight so much more.

How do you tell one case from the other? Well, as a writer, I guess you would use your artistic sensibilities, based on experience, talent and knowledge. Or maybe just read lots of science fiction and go to the movies so often that the "rules" just trickle into your brain. LOL 

In T2, I bet Cameron simply felt that by the time Arnie and John Conner got to the scene with the street punks that Arnie almost kills, that the audience is craving some kind of explanation as to what the shape-shifting T1000 is. So Arnie tells us. Whereas when Brett is confronted by the adult alien having last seen it as a small chestburster, no-one in the audience was craving an answer as to how it grew so quickly. Were Cameron and O'Bannon right? You tell me.    :)

TC

BlueMarsalis79

Targeting an ecosystem's fauna but not the flora, and either killing outright, or creating a hybrid form with features of the Alien apart from the biomechanics becoming present's enough definition for me personally.

Kradan

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 29, 2021, 12:21:41 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 29, 2021, 07:58:27 AM
Quote from: judge death on Apr 28, 2021, 09:48:39 PMI havent read cold forge but prometheus and covenant and fire and stone and other material seem to me just make the pathogen to a: it does whatever the story writer wants it to and not much logic to it.

That's my big issue with it. It's just f**king random with no apparent rules or internal logic.

It's

https://media1.giphy.com/media/P3q5bmBBhPEyc/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c2655e0797048314dd09fa9
https://i.gifer.com/24ME.gif

So, I'll take that you liked it ?

Kimarhi

There is something off with the presentation of Prometheus and Covenant.  I'm not sure what it is, but Prometheus especially reminded me more of AvP than it did Alien.  Covenant was more a step in the right direction but there was still something missing. 

Being "off" in presentation/tone etc is why I can't stand Resurrection.




Its also why I don't think Temple of Doom or Chronicles of Riddick are as good as the movies before or after them. 

To be honest there is more you can do with the black goo because the writers can literally make it do whatever it is they want (and it can still be a type of WMD threat even without turning anything into a monster), but I personally hope that the series follows more of the OG Trilogy than anything else in the series. 



Immortan Jonesy

Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 30, 2021, 02:12:59 AM
Prometheus especially reminded me more of AvP than it did Alien. 

Same but different.

Spoiler
But still same.
[close]

Nightmare Asylum

Prometheus and AVP, to me, overlap in the sense that they are drawing on abandoned O'Bannon ideas that ultimately end up serving as the backbone for an "Ancient Alien Theory" tale, but I find Prometheus' approach to be significantly more interesting (conceptually and visually) despite the movie being an absolute mess structurally.

Now granted, I'm also biased in that the AVP concept as a whole just isn't for me, and in that I've never liked anything Paul WS Anderson has made.

Kradan


Immortan Jonesy

Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 29, 2021, 12:52:13 PM
It's always funny to me when people claim that the prequels washed away anything "Lovecraftian" about the original film when, really, those two films (love 'em, hate 'em, whatever) mostly just open up a whole new can of worms that emphasize the weirder elements of the original Alien (the rapid growth and the ability to bond with and take traits from the host's biological matter, for example) that I would certainly describe as follows:

QuoteLovecraftian horror, sometimes used interchangeably with "cosmic horror" is a subgenre of horror fiction and weird fiction that emphasizes the horror of the unknowable and incomprehensible more than gore or other elements of shock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovecraftian_horror

We don't completely understand how the pathogen came to be, where it originates from, or the full extent of what can be done with it; we do know, however, that it has built in traits that can be honed and expanded upon, allowing for any entity experimenting with it in tandem with different biological matter to uniquely create or release something as primordial as the Deacon or, in the hands of one who considers himself a rather expert artisan (and a god, all the same), David's "Perfect Organism" that we all know and love from the original films. But those are just seemingly two ends of a rather diverse spectrum of creations, in which a multitude of other "unknowable and incomprehensible" iterations can and presumably do exist, just waiting for a new set of hands to shape and guide the pathogen in a unique, creative way. That's where something like the result of the experimentation in Into Charybdis becomes really interesting to me...

The division between "science" and "magic" does indeed start to blur, but the pathogen does function, in a sense, like a biomechanical nano-technology, capable of being both reprogramed and grafted onto biological material in such a way that it can yield all manner of "unknowable and incomprehensible" eldritch horrors.

We humans were created by the Enginners simply because they could. Our creation, an android that was created with a similar nonchalant intent, then picked up the pieces left by those old spacefaring gods and surpassing humans in order to create something he deems to be beautiful and perfect. Where does that leave us humans, insignificant pawns navigating this dangerous universe in which we have no true place or cause?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Hypothetically speaking, I could bet that if I traveled to an ancient era with a drone, I would be perceived as a wizard  :laugh:




Now imagine an alien technology so advanced, that it is perceived as magical by the human eyes of the 21st century.  :o

Excellent post NA. Clarke's three laws? That quote fascinates me. I mean the line between black pathogen like magic and science too advanced for our understanding is too thin. But with later installments, like White's books, we are understanding a little more about it. There is a lovecraftian vibe out there and on a metafiction level, since when the answers are unknown to the character, such answers became unknowable to the audience.




Quote from: TC on Apr 29, 2021, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 29, 2021, 12:49:20 PM
I am missing the organism (possibly with acidic blood) growing from 50 cm to 2 m in less than 24 hours, not to mention the food source for the already impossible process for a vertebrate organism of that size.
You must address the audience's big questions about the capabilities and limitations of your newly author-invented tech.

TC

Oh, but we know about the capabilities and limitations of the pathogen, as TQ has already pointed out:

Capabilities: Can kill the fauna of an ecosystem, and create aggressive hybrids.

Limitations: It doesn't kill the flora, although that seems to be part of the main goal.

The second prequel is a Prometheus soft reboot. What you saw there was recontextualized through Covenant worldbuilding.




Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 30, 2021, 05:33:16 AM
Prometheus and AVP, to me, overlap in the sense that they are drawing on abandoned O'Bannon ideas that ultimately end up serving as the backbone for an "Ancient Alien Theory" tale, but I find Prometheus' approach to be significantly more interesting (conceptually and visually) despite the movie being an absolute mess structurally.

Now granted, I'm also biased in that the AVP concept as a whole just isn't for me, and in that I've never liked anything Paul WS Anderson has made.

I think Charles's motivations are less cringe (to be historically immortal rather than lIterally immortal), but I have to agree. Prometheus is beautiful. The visuals make me move my head slowly, towards the sky to contemplate the universe or something.  :laugh:

Nightmare Asylum

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 30, 2021, 09:07:58 PM
I think Charles's motivations are less cringe (to be historically immortal rather than lIterally immortal), but I have to agree.


the futile quest for everlasting life

+


the futile quest for knowledge from an alien intelligence

=


Immortan Jonesy

Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 30, 2021, 09:38:02 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 30, 2021, 09:07:58 PM
I think Charles's motivations are less cringe (to be historically immortal rather than lIterally immortal), but I have to agree.


the futile quest for everlasting life

+


the futile quest for knowledge from an alien intelligence

=


Wow  :o I actually liked that comparison  8)

Speaking of which, according to TV Tropes , the last Engineer replied to Weyland's request in Proto-Indo-European: "you would not be a man if you didn't grow old".  :laugh:

Quote from: TV TropesAccording to the promotional book A grammar of modern Indo-European - Prometheus edition, the Engineer's reply to Weyland's request for immortality translates literally as "you would not be a man if you didn't grow old,"

Although I would take that one with a grain of salt, it also reminds me of a biblical proverb  :-X
 
*So I went to the angel and told him to give me the little scroll. And he said to me, "Take and eat it; it will make your stomach bitter, but in your mouth it will be sweet as honey."*


But what I found even more interesting in Prometheus is all its development, which is nicelly described in this amazing video, plus The Furious Gods doc:  8)


Actually, I would be most happy to watch a movie about the development of this movie. I already have the cast in mind.  ;D

Spoiler
Owen Teale as Ridley Scott



kyle Maclachlan as Dariusz Wolski



Chris Martin as Jon Spaihts



David Cross as Damon Lindelof



Benicio del Toro as Carlos Huante



Noomi Rapace as Noomi Rapace



Helen Mirren as Janty Yates



James Cromwell as Arthur Max

[close]

Deadmeat

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 30, 2021, 11:31:58 PM

Actually, I would be most happy to watch a movie about the development of this movie. I already have the cast in mind.  ;D

Spoiler
Owen Teale as Ridley Scott



kyle Maclachlan as Dariusz Wolski



Chris Martin as Jon Spaihts



David Cross as Damon Lindelof



Benicio del Toro as Carlos Huante



Noomi Rapace as Noomi Rapace



Helen Mirren as Janty Yates



James Cromwell as Arthur Max

[close]

something something truman show

judge death

My biggest gripe with the black goo as others mentioned is how random it is, no youtube video has so far been able to explain it much and make it logical and set up rules for how it works, example this vdeo:


In prometheus we saw:
Once the canisters is exposed to air and not sealed atmosphere it starts to leak and activate the black goo and whatever it got in contact with besides androids starts to mutate to random creatures, never killing by iitself.
Worms got intot hose hammerworm/hammerpede designs that could swim around in blakc goo without any issue, which contradict what we see later as it mutates androids and xenos etc.

It didnt evolve into those spore mushrooms.

IF gestated it mutates the host into a mutant, and if that host have sex it will cause the offspring to mutate into a facehugger/squid design.

Note that all of those creatures it mutates has acid blood.

The neomorph is similair to a xenomorph, but not like the mural one but could be random mutation, in the expanded lore it ate the black goo in the base and evolved into a mountain.

Black goo is used to create life as well as mutate it, video like the one above and others says it.

Then we have how they changed it in covenant:

Now it has somehow evolved its own ecosystem with insects and creatures and even spore mushrooms that once touched spray out bacteria that ifnects a host, like how some mushrooms in sweden do and I see mushrooms as plants, although they are a hybrid of animal and plants.
Prometheus nor coventant explains hwo the black goo can create these as it was show it mutates existing creatures not creating.

Now the black goo kills whatever it touches, those humanoids on the planet didnt mutate like the ones in prometheus but melted and died. The movies dont explain when the black goo kills and when it mutates what it touches or why?

The creatures those spores infected and black goo too, creates neomorphs or deacon like creatures but unlike prometheus these dont have acid blood, its never explained either.

Davids mixing with his version of black goo and experiemtns have created the protomorphs which do have acid unlike the neomorphs.

Then we have also examples where the black goo mutates androids as well.

And we also see the black goo making hybrids of creatures. And no rule for when the blakc goo will do either? So far its very random what it will do to a host.

Also we saw in prometheus creatures that has been infected by the black goo are immune to it and can swim around in it without any harm but we see xenomrophs and others in later materials being very affected by it and again no explanation to why?

Its not like the xenomorphs which is very logic by now:
Alien egg-Facehugger-chestburster-drone-queen and how its lifecycle work and what they do and why, black goo in the movies arent very well explained at all to me nor to many other youtubers or even my friend who is genetic doctor in sweden who is a massive alien fan has no idea how the black goo work and just see it as: well else we wouldnt have a movie and they have to look past details and make up stuff to make the movie to work.:P

[cancerblack]

This has more to do with the type of people who make YT videos than the goo, TQ has been explaining its properties here ad nauseam

judge death

Quote from: [cancerblack] on May 04, 2021, 07:48:33 PM
This has more to do with the type of people who make YT videos than the goo, TQ has been explaining its properties here ad nauseam
Didnt find any answers to the questions I made in my post, it explained some but never any of the issues I found with it.

BlueMarsalis79

I have answered all your questions but you do not accept my answers but and truly I mean no offense: certain things you ought to be able to interpret for yourself like David's lab obviously having stuff he simply inspected as examples of the fauna on the planet before experimentation.

And yes a larger issue exists with people not doing their research and being informed of "the facts" by other people who do not do their research beyond reading the wiki articles.

And take it at face value.

AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Patreon RSS Feed
Contact: General Queries | Submit News