i've seen a lot of talk here and elsewhere that seemingly assumes the planet the prometheus goes to is LV-426, which based on the descriptions in the first alien movie, is a moon of an unnamed gas giant orbiting zeta 2 reticuli.
maybe i'm out of the loop, but why do we think it's LV-426? it doesn't look like the moon in alien at all in terms geology or atmospheric conditions. the only commonality i can see is that a u-shaped alien spaceship crashes on both. has ridley scott said it's LV-426 or something?
the star map given in the trailer certainly doesn't look like the neighborhood of zeta reticuli. eta, a little bit, but it doesn't match up.
Is there already a topic for this ?
It's ok EEV-2501 just smile ^^!
:) :) :) :)
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 20, 2012, 12:07:03 AM
i've seen a lot of talk here and elsewhere that seemingly assumes the planet the prometheus goes to is LV-426, which based on the descriptions in the first alien movie, is a moon of an unnamed gas giant orbiting zeta 2 reticuli.
maybe i'm out of the loop, but why do we think it's LV-426? it doesn't look like the moon in alien at all in terms geology or atmospheric conditions. the only commonality i can see is that a u-shaped alien spaceship crashes on both. has ridley scott said it's LV-426 or something?
the star map given in the trailer certainly doesn't look like the neighborhood of zeta reticuli. eta, a little bit, but it doesn't match up.
It's up in the air, but I still side on the believe that it is NOT going to be LV-426, but a neighboring planet or planetoid.
I don't know how many times this could have been discussed but where do you think the movie takes place it must be lv-426 right spbecause why would space jockeys crash two ships any one heavy any other theories
Zeta 2 Reticuli has at least 3 moons around its gas giant, Prometheus could have gone to any of those, not just LV-426.
It has to be lv- 426 space jockeys would not crash 2 ships
...
Why not?
Looks like it wasn't their fault this time.
Why not.
We do.
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 12:17:50 AM
...
Why not?
Because... Uh... Of the interstellar you-cant-crash-two-ships-in-the-same-system charter of 12185.
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:07:53 AMIs there really need of a Topic for this ?
yes, i have no idea where people are getting this idea, and i see a lot of people that seem to think it is the same place. i'd like to know why people think that.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 12:13:04 AMIt's up in the air, but I still side on the believe that it is NOT going to be LV-426, but a neighboring planet or planetoid.
i popped up a constellation map of reticulum (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Reticulum_IAU.svg/2000px-Reticulum_IAU.svg.png) to see if zeta happened to fit into the arrangement of stars in the artifacts. it doesn't, but i really thought for a minute that
eta might. it doesn't either, but it's a lot closer.
i'm sort of wondering if anyone with some astronomical knowledge recognizes the configuration, or knows of a good way we could look for it. it's possible they just made it up, but considering that LV-426 orbits a known star, i kind of doubt it.
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:16:49 AM
It has to be lv- 426 space jockeys would not crash 2 ships
the one LV-426 crashed because the pilot died, giving birth to a xenomorph. the one in the trailer crashes because the prometheus runs into it.
Quote from: RoaryUK on Mar 20, 2012, 12:15:41 AM
Zeta 2 Reticuli has at least 3 moons around its gas giant, Prometheus could have gone to any of those, not just LV-426.
there's also zeta 1. but the constellation doesn't match up.
Really space jockeys are extremely intelligent they crash because of us but I don't think they would crash another ship when there race is almost all gone its definitely lv-426
QuoteReally space jockeys are extremely intelligent they crash because of us but I don't think they would crash another ship when there race is almost all gone its definitely lv-426
Awful lot of assumptions there...
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 12:19:04 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 12:17:50 AM
...
Why not?
Because... Uh... Of the interstellar you-cant-crash-two-ships-in-the-same-system charter of 12185.
Oh THAT!
Righto then.
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:21:14 AMReally space jockeys are extremely intelligent they crash because of us but I don't think they would crash another ship when there race is almost all gone its definitely lv-426
both cases appear to have different causes (neither of which is pilot error). and we don't actually know that their race is almost gone.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 20, 2012, 12:19:48 AM
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:07:53 AMIs there really need of a Topic for this ?
yes, i have no idea where people are getting this idea, and i see a lot of people that seem to think it is the same place. i'd like to know why people think that.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 12:13:04 AMIt's up in the air, but I still side on the believe that it is NOT going to be LV-426, but a neighboring planet or planetoid.
i popped up a constellation map of reticulum (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Reticulum_IAU.svg/2000px-Reticulum_IAU.svg.png) to see if zeta happened to fit into the arrangement of stars in the
artifacts. it doesn't, but i really thought for a minute that eta might. it doesn't either, but it's a lot closer.
i'm sort of wondering if anyone with some astronomical knowledge recognizes the configuration, or knows of a good way we could look for it. it's possible they just made it up, but considering that LV-426 orbits a known star, i kind of doubt it.
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:16:49 AM
It has to be lv- 426 space jockeys would not crash 2 ships
the one LV-426 crashed because the pilot died, giving birth to a xenomorph. the one in the trailer crashes because the prometheus runs into it.
Quote from: RoaryUK on Mar 20, 2012, 12:15:41 AM
Zeta 2 Reticuli has at least 3 moons around its gas giant, Prometheus could have gone to any of those, not just LV-426.
there's also zeta 1. but the constellation doesn't match up.
There's no proof that the ship on lv-426 crashed due to a chest rustler maybe after Prometheus crashed into the ship the captain was knocked out and a facebugger got to him
We don't even know that the one on LV-426 CRASHED. That itself is a huge assumption.
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:23:57 AMThere's no proof that the ship on lv-426 crashed due to a chest rustler maybe after Prometheus crashed into the ship the captain was knocked out and a facebugger got to him
i agree, that's an assumption.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 12:25:00 AMWe don't even know that the one on LV-426 CRASHED. That itself is a huge assumption.
as is that. in the original plot, the pilot found the lifeforms on the planet after landing safely, and died before taking back off.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 12:25:00 AM
We don't even know that the one on LV-426 CRASHED. That itself is a huge assumption.
Why would it land there on the rocks and why would a fachugger get out if they landed I feel like they would have took precautions
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:28:43 AMWhy would it land there on the rocks and why would a fachugger get out if they landed I feel like they would have took precautions
they did. they left a warning beacon, and had the eggs in a containment field, both of which the human astronauts ignored.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 20, 2012, 12:30:15 AM
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:28:43 AMWhy would it land there on the rocks and why would a fachugger get out if they landed I feel like they would have took precautions
they did. they left a warning beacon, and had the eggs in a containment field, both of which the human astronauts ignored.
That does make sense i guess we won't know until we see Prometheus
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:28:43 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 12:25:00 AM
We don't even know that the one on LV-426 CRASHED. That itself is a huge assumption.
Why would it land there on the rocks and why would a fachugger get out if they landed I feel like they would have took precautions
There is no indication in the terrain of a crash, and MALFUNCTIONS happen.
If aliens are biomechanoid weapons, then let's make a metaphor.
A bomber has to land because of a malfunction in one of the warheads that's causing a radiation leak. The vehicle lands, and security/quarantine measures are put into place, but the pilots die from radiation sickness.
Maybe the Jockey ship was struck by a meteor or was damaged in a solar flare whilst passing through the system, ir attacked by enemies of the Jockey's, and it put down on the planet for repairs.
Again, the strange terrain doesn't really imply that the ship crashed, AND it was the nature of the thing in the story in several drafts that the craft had landed and encountered this thing, and never made it back off the planet again.
Maybe he was trying to maintin his ship after the impact with the Prometheus but the Chestburster kills him by bursting his chest, He dies on the pilot chair and the Derelict crashes.
I doubt this is LV-426, I just don't think it's plausible. Even with alien technology, to terraform an entire moon in 30 years yet somehow forget to make the atmosphere breathable, when this planet appears very habitable already? Coincidence, I think not. Like I said, it could be a neighbouring moon, but I think even that is pushing things given what people here who know their stuff have commented.
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:34:32 AM
Maybe he was trying to maintin his ship after the impact with the Prometheus but the Chestburster kills him by bursting his chest, He dies on the pilot chair and the Derelict crashes.
I just want to point out that the way this thing crashes is... Well Prometheus (in the close up of the collision) collides with one of those openings that the Nostromo crew entered through on the other craft. ... The exact one. (The left one). Likely, there would be so much damage in that area that I very much doubt the ship is the same derelict.
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:34:32 AMMaybe he was trying to maintin his ship after the impact with the Prometheus but the Chestburster kills him by bursting his chest, He dies on the pilot chair and the Derelict crashes.
i just really don't think they're supposed to be the same ship. it takes a lot of "maybe" ad hoc reasoning to make them the same.
they're visually different, too. the new one is much more geometric than the old one. a lot of the comparison screenshots hide this, but the original was shaped organically, like a set of bones. it looked more like this (http://do-while.com/img/weird/biomechanic-by-h-r-giger/biomechanic-by-h-r-giger61.jpg), whereas the new one looks more like a section of a circle. it's also been trimmed a bit, and the arms are now in the same plane as the body, instead of curving up.
i'm not saying this is proof they're different; they might have been meant to be the same design. it's certainly close enough that everyone except the hugest giger nerds (like me) thinks they're practically identical.
Quote from: RoaryUK on Mar 20, 2012, 12:36:39 AMI doubt this is LV-426, I just don't think it's plausible. Even with alien technology, to terraform an entire moon in 30 years yet somehow forget to make the atmosphere breathable, when this planet appears very habitable already?
to be fair, they are wearing helmets, at least when they're outside the temple. but it really does look way more mild. maybe the nostromo set down in a storm -- but it stormed the whole time the marines were there too. i think that's just the place's climate.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 12:39:32 AMI just want to point out that the way this thing crashes is... Well Prometheus (in the close up of the collision) collides with one of those openings that the Nostromo crew entered through on the other craft. ... The exact one. (The left one). Likely, there would be so much damage in that area that I very much doubt the ship is the same derelict.
it appears undamaged in the other shots, though. it's hard to say what happens exactly (trailers can be out of order) but it sort of looks like the prometheus blows up on it, knocks it out of the air, and does very little actual damage.
In the Prometheus trailers we see both the Jockey ship AND Prometheus crashing, but as somebody pointed out here, on LV-426 in Alien there is no sign of the wreckage of Prometheus. Also there is no sign of many of the other things shown in the trailer such as the pyramid (with other Jockey suits), the area where the ground opened up that we see the Jockey ship both launching from and then crash-landing nearby.
There's no reason why it couldn't be a different Jockey ship, and we probably will be left to guess why the original one in Alien was where it is and that one could have been there for centuries.
The Weyland timeline does seem to make it clear that they are either elsewhere on LV-426 specifically, or a nearby moon. It's possible the original discovery of LV-426 was related to the beacon from the original derelict, but at a different coordinate or even different moon than Prometheus visits.
Sure the appendages of the ship"s" are clearly different between the Teaser and the Trailer but the shot/scene seems to be the same.
I'm not keeping up on the endless and ultimately fruitless speculation, but has the constellation been identified?
At a quick glance it looks like part of Ursa Major with the dude pointing to Dubhe (aka Alpha Ursae Majoris). It's visible in northern and southern hemispheres so would correllate with it being present n a bunch of different civilisations world wide. However it is a binary system, and I can't recall seeing more than one sun in the trailers.
Quote from: RoaryUK on Mar 20, 2012, 12:36:39 AM
I doubt this is LV-426, I just don't think it's plausible. Even with alien technology, to terraform an entire moon in 30 years yet somehow forget to make the atmosphere breathable, when this planet appears very habitable already?
Yeah, remember Ashs rundown of the LV-426 characteristics in Alien - deep cold, methane atmosphere or something like it.
What kind of terraformers would the engineers be, if they make the worlds more hostile to lifeforms than they were to begin with?
Ridley Scott just made an announcement that this movie takes place on LV-425! :o
How about the classic explanation for: THESE ARE DIFFERENT SHIPS?
The ship in ALIEN had different walls in the jockey room,different design. The platform on wich the space jockey sits is also different than the one in PROMETHEUS.
Oh and lindelof said this wasn't lv-426. I don't understand why this things keep being debated
Quote from: Hudson on Mar 20, 2012, 01:06:50 AM
Ridley Scott just made an announcement that this movie takes place on LV-425! :o
Link please
http://api.ning.com/files/u99xp*dP4M*fgoCWFmPoycer9cls5qcahBtMEAmFcOnYoaAoE2SBBu6ibFT-*7OU6LIe8wfqHhOLb0iHHjcTmY07-7k2-v9z/goofball.jpg (http://api.ning.com/files/u99xp*dP4M*fgoCWFmPoycer9cls5qcahBtMEAmFcOnYoaAoE2SBBu6ibFT-*7OU6LIe8wfqHhOLb0iHHjcTmY07-7k2-v9z/goofball.jpg)
I think it should be on lv-426 so we can connect the alien and Prometheus isn't that what we want because why have aliens if it doesn't connect with alien
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 01:13:06 AM
I think it should be on lv-426 so we can connect the alien and Prometheus isn't that what we want because why have aliens if it doesn't connect with alien
Topics merged.
Search before posting new threads.
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 01:13:06 AM
I think it should be on lv-426 so we can connect the alien and Prometheus isn't that what we want because why have aliens if it doesn't connect with alien
I think that's probably the first question that was asked when it was announced this wasn't actually going to be "an Alien movie" per say. No one is saying this doesn't connect with Alien; it does. It obviously is just much much much more ambitious and is addressing bigger themes than Alien did in 1979.
Quote from: Hudson on Mar 20, 2012, 01:16:22 AM
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 01:13:06 AM
I think it should be on lv-426 so we can connect the alien and Prometheus isn't that what we want because why have aliens if it doesn't connect with alien
I think that's probably the first question that was asked when it was announced this wasn't actually going to be "an Alien movie" per say. No one is saying this doesn't connect with Alien; it does. It obviously is just much much much more ambitious and is addressing bigger themes than Alien did in 1979.
Yes but then why would weyland industries know to send the nostromo to lv-426 if they only knew about the jockey ship on whatever planet it's going to be on
Quote from: Face Jockey on Mar 20, 2012, 12:47:30 AMIn the Prometheus trailers we see both the Jockey ship AND Prometheus crashing, but as somebody pointed out here, on LV-426 in Alien there is no sign of the wreckage of Prometheus. Also there is no sign of many of the other things shown in the trailer such as the pyramid (with other Jockey suits), the area where the ground opened up that we see the Jockey ship both launching from and then crash-landing nearby.
agreed. notably, however, there was
supposed to be a pyramid in the original
alien. i think the similarity here is more likely a sign of ridley scott recycling an unused idea than anything else.
Quote from: Face Jockey on Mar 20, 2012, 12:47:30 AMThere's no reason why it couldn't be a different Jockey ship, and we probably will be left to guess why the original one in Alien was where it is and that one could have been there for centuries.
from a movie-making perspective, especially after all the talk, i just can't see ridley scott ham-fistedly setting up the original movie. it's boring, contrived, and we all know where it's going. it spoils some of
alien as well. it doesn't seem like his style, and he's spoken against it a few times, i think. he's also said that if a sequel were made, it wouldn't be
alien.
Quote from: Face Jockey on Mar 20, 2012, 12:47:30 AMThe Weyland timeline does seem to make it clear that they are either elsewhere on LV-426 specifically, or a nearby moon. It's possible the original discovery of LV-426 was related to the beacon from the original derelict, but at a different coordinate or even different moon than Prometheus visits.
i think they threw it in for shits and giggles. and it's promotional material, not canon. they misspelled "acheron" for godsakes. and "acheron" isn't even the canon name of the moon, either. it was the name the colonists dubbed it, in the
novelization of
aliens by alan dean foster. it wouldn't have been called that prior to the colonists arriving -- all the company people, even in the book, call it "LV-426". to my knowledge, it doesn't appear in the movies at all.
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 12:50:57 AMI'm not keeping up on the endless and ultimately fruitless speculation, but has the constellation been identified?
no, but that's my hope. if it's in a different system entirely, we can probably rule out LV-426. unless the people making the movie really, really screwed up.
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 12:50:57 AMAt a quick glance it looks like part of Ursa Major with the dude pointing to Dubhe (aka Alpha Ursae Majoris). It's visible in northern and southern hemispheres so would correllate with it being present n a bunch of different civilisations world wide. However it is a binary system, and I can't recall seeing more than one sun in the trailers.
i agree, that looks like a good candidate. the pictograms match up pretty closely (beta is out of place), but chi and beta both seem to move between the pictograms and the actual star chart, in the trailer. which is odd.
Plus the different terrain. The plane tin Prometheus is smooth and seems to have a completely different atmosphere to LV-426. Not to mention Lv-426 is completely cloudy and dark while this new planet has clear skies. Here's some compariosns.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fannex%2Fimages%2F5%2F5f%2FAlien-LV-426-Distant_Shot.jpg&hash=59e0b996a9172982507a32dc4fb0e96294c49fb3)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-n4CU6gEvWAA%2FT1ZvzanRs8I%2FAAAAAAAABM4%2FXWuqlffpVYw%2Fs1600%2Fprometheus_2012_movie_Ridley_Scott.jpg&hash=7a09a3be147b0a55da2fc0f062f7e8eb6e92e552)
However, it is possible that it's another moon orbiting the gas giant. There were two others.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frcoltrane.50webs.com%2FLV426.jpg&hash=2129ec6e934a6c49a1d31cda6f678c878daa241b)
The ships also look different.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ifc.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F12%2F1222-prometheus-derelict.jpg&hash=c484479abf04e536ef0d1dc73641b9a9ea91108b)
Also, I'd like to know how the Urns somehow turn into eggs by the time of alien. Surely the Nostromo crew would have found urns as well.
Quote from: Hudson on Mar 20, 2012, 01:06:50 AM
Ridley Scott just made an announcement that this movie takes place on LV-425! :o
:laugh:
Hey Hudson - have you ever been mistaken for a man?
The planet you circled cannot be LV since its seen on the sky from LV's ground. LV is actually behind the giant from what Ive heard, unseen in the movie
Isn't "Gas Giant" Zeta 2 Reticuli?
Also, those pictures could be on the same planet. One in daytime one at nighttime?
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Mar 20, 2012, 01:20:42 AM
Plus the different terrain. The plane tin Prometheus is smooth and seems to have a completely different atmosphere to LV-426. Not to mention Lv-426 is completely cloudy and dark while this new planet has clear skies. Here's some compariosns.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fannex%2Fimages%2F5%2F5f%2FAlien-LV-426-Distant_Shot.jpg&hash=59e0b996a9172982507a32dc4fb0e96294c49fb3)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-n4CU6gEvWAA%2FT1ZvzanRs8I%2FAAAAAAAABM4%2FXWuqlffpVYw%2Fs1600%2Fprometheus_2012_movie_Ridley_Scott.jpg&hash=7a09a3be147b0a55da2fc0f062f7e8eb6e92e552)
However, it is possible that it's another moon orbiting the gas giant. There were two others.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frcoltrane.50webs.com%2FLV426.jpg&hash=2129ec6e934a6c49a1d31cda6f678c878daa241b)
The ships also look different.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ifc.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F12%2F1222-prometheus-derelict.jpg&hash=c484479abf04e536ef0d1dc73641b9a9ea91108b)
Also, I'd like to know how the Urns somehow turn into eggs by the time of alien. Surely the Nostromo crew would have found urns as well.
Maybe something drastic happens to the planet maybe the movie goes on after the crash and why would the urns turn into eggs that doesn't work
Quote from: Hudson on Mar 20, 2012, 01:23:05 AM
Isn't "Gas Giant" Zeta 2 Reticuli?
Also, those pictures could be on the same planet. One in daytime one at nighttime?
The ships structure is different.
Zeta 2 Reticuli is the name of the star that the gas giant orbits.
Quote from: Eva on Mar 20, 2012, 01:21:46 AM
Quote from: Hudson on Mar 20, 2012, 01:06:50 AM
Ridley Scott just made an announcement that this movie takes place on LV-425! :o
:laugh:
Hey Hudson - have you ever been mistaken for a man?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 01:26:29 AM
Quote from: Hudson on Mar 20, 2012, 01:23:05 AM
Isn't "Gas Giant" Zeta 2 Reticuli?
Also, those pictures could be on the same planet. One in daytime one at nighttime?
The ships structure is different.
Zeta 2 Reticuli is the name of the star that the gas giant orbits.
D'oh! Just read that on another site.
Also, how could LV-426 be behind that large planet? It would've taken them hours to get to the other side of it in Alien!
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:50:13 AMSure the appendages of the ship"s" are clearly different between the Teaser and the Trailer but the shot/scene seems to be the same.
i mean between
alien and
prometheus, the ship is slightly different. might be due to design changes between films, not intentional differences. hard to say at this point.
Quote from: Eva on Mar 20, 2012, 12:57:41 AMYeah, remember Ashs rundown of the LV-426 characteristics in Alien - deep cold, methane atmosphere or something like it.
What kind of terraformers would the engineers be, if they make the worlds more hostile to lifeforms than they were to begin with?
maybe that's what's hospitable to them. maybe the u-ships are mobile terraforming plants. i really doubt it though, as they'd already been on this planet, and they seem very much like us. maybe their temple is terraforming, and the prometheus crew turns it off or destroys it? i don't think any of this is the case, but i'm trying to be honest in the possibility it COULD be LV-426.
Quote from: Hudson on Mar 20, 2012, 01:06:50 AMRidley Scott just made an announcement that this movie takes place on LV-425! :o
where?
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 01:13:06 AMI think it should be on lv-426 so we can connect the alien and Prometheus isn't that what we want because why have aliens if it doesn't connect with alien
ridley scott has said a couple of times that they DON'T connect.
Quote from: zuzuki on Mar 20, 2012, 01:09:51 AM
How about the classic explanation for: THESE ARE DIFFERENT SHIPS?
The ship in ALIEN had different walls in the jockey room,different design. The platform on wich the space jockey sits is also different than the one in PROMETHEUS.
Oh and lindelof said this wasn't lv-426. I don't understand why this things keep being debated
did lindelof say it wasn't LV-426? do you have a source? i was pretty positive i'd heard it wasn't, but everybody lately has been so sure it is. i just wanted to know what changed, and why people thought that. i'm willing to let design differences account for the difference in the ships, but that doesn't mean anything one way or the other.
Quote from: Hudson on Mar 20, 2012, 01:23:05 AM
Isn't "Gas Giant" Zeta 2 Reticuli?
Also, those pictures could be on the same planet. One in daytime one at nighttime?
Zeta 2 Reticuli is the star - the gas giant was never identified by name in the film.
What we saw in Alien
was 'daytime' - Ash specifically said that the sun was just about to rise before they went out.
The light looks very different when comparing surface shots of LV-426 and the planet in Prometheus.
Ridley Scott wants us to think different they are connected one way or another the end of the movie is going to tell us how it all goes togeather if the whole movie is different and it will be the end of the movie should connect them it would be awesome if they did that
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 01:33:48 AM
Ridley Scott wants us to think different they are connected one way or another the end of the movie is going to tell us how it all goes togeather if the whole movie is different and it will be the end of the movie should connect them it would be awesome if they did that
It's not going to be LV-426. The connection will be something "for the fans" but something that also works on it's own. So it will not be something that requires you to know ALIEN. It's pure fan wankery to think the end is going to be that deeply connected, that the general audience will have to reference another movie to get the "full" power of the end.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 01:35:29 AM
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 01:33:48 AM
Ridley Scott wants us to think different they are connected one way or another the end of the movie is going to tell us how it all goes togeather if the whole movie is different and it will be the end of the movie should connect them it would be awesome if they did that
It's not going to be LV-426. The connection will be something "for the fans" but something that also works on it's own. So it will not be something that requires you to know ALIEN. It's pure fan wankery to think the end is going to be that deeply connected, that the general audience will have to reference another movie to get the "full" power of the end.
Yes I would love the movie to go into its own terms and be awesome and if the ending is for fans it should be mind blowing I have no dought this movie will rock
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 01:35:29 AMIt's not going to be LV-426. The connection will be something "for the fans" but something that also works on it's own. So it will not be something that requires you to know ALIEN. It's pure fan wankery to think the end is going to be that deeply connected, that the general audience will have to reference another movie to get the "full" power of the end.
personally, i'd walk out of the theater angry if it was deeply connected. anybody read that faked "alien harvest" script falsely attributed to spaihts? where it all ties in directly with
alien down to like, minutes before the nostromo shows up? it's contrived and horrible and reads like fan fiction.
i think ridley scott has said a couple of times he doesn't want to make a movie that's limited by where it has to go to set up another movie.
It goes it's own way but tells us the connection not deeply but enough and goes its own way I don't want it to go into alien time line I want just a hint that's all
Quotei think ridley scott has said a couple of times he doesn't want to make a movie that's limited by where it has to go to set up another movie.
He shouldn't be f**king around with prequels then. :P
Quote from: Hudson on Mar 20, 2012, 01:44:58 AM
Quotei think ridley scott has said a couple of times he doesn't want to make a movie that's limited by where it has to go to set up another movie.
He shouldn't be f**king around with prequels then. :P
It's going to be connected if not I will be a little mad it's a prqual but it goes it's own way
Quote from: Hudson on Mar 20, 2012, 01:44:58 AMQuotei think ridley scott has said a couple of times he doesn't want to make a movie that's limited by where it has to go to set up another movie.
He shouldn't be f**king around with prequels then. :P
he said a couple of times that he isn't.
We can clearly see in the trailer that the Prometheus crashes into a Jockey ship. The Jockey ship crashes on a flat plain with a ground that opens up, seemingly near to a pyramid.
In Alien, there is no sign of a wrecked Prometheus, or a pyramid, or the flat open area where the Jockey ship crash lands in the Prometheus trailer. Both the original derelict and the Prometheus Jockey ship could indeed be on the same moon in different locations with some sort of explanation for the differences in atmospheric conditions, but it seems pretty clear that they are different ships. Clearly there is a significance for why the two Jockey ships are on or near the same moon or else the story would have just placed things in a different system altogether.
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Mar 20, 2012, 01:20:42 AM
However, it is possible that it's another moon orbiting the gas giant. There were two others.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frcoltrane.50webs.com%2FLV426.jpg&hash=2129ec6e934a6c49a1d31cda6f678c878daa241b)
That background plate is flipped and used again while on the surface indicating - if one wanted to be literal - either the circled planet isn't LV-426, or there's another moon obscured by the planet.
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Mar 20, 2012, 01:20:42 AM
However, it is possible that it's another moon orbiting the gas giant. There were two others.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frcoltrane.50webs.com%2FLV426.jpg&hash=2129ec6e934a6c49a1d31cda6f678c878daa241b)
That background plate is flipped and used again while on the surface indicating - if one wanted to be literal - either the circled planet isn't LV-426, or there's another moon obscured by the planet.
someone on arstechnica points out that there's a large ringed gas giant in the sky of the moon prometheus sets down on.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropbox.com%2Fu%2F33609%2FScreen%2520Shot%25202012-03-19%2520at%25204.27.31%2520PM.png&hash=175c8f5cfa17042281d5f4f3906fdf719c290fdb)
Considering we have four ringed gas giants in our own system, rings seem to be the rule rather than the exception. ;D
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Mar 20, 2012, 01:20:42 AM
However, it is possible that it's another moon orbiting the gas giant. There were two others.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frcoltrane.50webs.com%2FLV426.jpg&hash=2129ec6e934a6c49a1d31cda6f678c878daa241b)
That background plate is flipped and used again while on the surface indicating - if one wanted to be literal - either the circled planet isn't LV-426, or there's another moon obscured by the planet.
Also, note how big the planet appears from space, yet notice how much smaller it is as seen from LV-426. For LV-426 to be any of the moons seen in the space shots, the planet would appear so large as to fill most of the sky. Since it's smaller than what we see in the space shots, LV-426 would have to be very far away from the planet--much further than any of the visible moons are.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi273.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj216%2Fklasodeth%2FAlien%2FApproach3.jpg&hash=4ea15a90d18b25fb6d66338d2196f170c321f49b)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi273.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj216%2Fklasodeth%2FAlien%2FSurface.jpg&hash=ae48be361e883388f450ded953a410ed59d1770e)
Quote from: StrangeShape on Mar 20, 2012, 02:11:32 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Mar 20, 2012, 01:20:42 AM
However, it is possible that it's another moon orbiting the gas giant. There were two others.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frcoltrane.50webs.com%2FLV426.jpg&hash=2129ec6e934a6c49a1d31cda6f678c878daa241b)
That background plate is flipped and used again while on the surface indicating - if one wanted to be literal - either the circled planet isn't LV-426, or there's another moon obscured by the planet.
Also, note how big the planet appears from space, yet notice how much smaller it is as seen from LV-426. For LV-426 to be any of the moons seen in the space shots, the planet would appear so large as to fill most of the sky. Since it's smaller than what we see in the space shots, LV-426 would have to be very far away from the planet--much further than any of the visible moons are.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi273.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj216%2Fklasodeth%2FAlien%2FApproach3.jpg&hash=4ea15a90d18b25fb6d66338d2196f170c321f49b)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi273.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj216%2Fklasodeth%2FAlien%2FSurface.jpg&hash=ae48be361e883388f450ded953a410ed59d1770e)
Could be an eccentric orbit?
All I know is ONE THING about that Planet
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.tinypic.com%2F6f1bus.jpg&hash=cd1db05f16f8716f059793d7f1b4b5218a743faa)
The planet in Prometheus is not LV-426 because it gets blown the f*ck up at the end of the movie.
Or at least that's what I assume must happen... haha. ::)
Prometheus isn't in Zeta 2 Reticuli at all. It's in completely different star system. It's in Eagle constellation, so that pretty much rules out LV-426.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fmp7Ym.jpg&hash=d76db629dcac0c1fe5cf358826af3a6951ad285a)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquila_%28constellation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquila_%28constellation)
"Aquila, the pet eagle of Zeus, showed the gentler side of his nature when he carefully carried up Ganymede to Mount Olympus to be cup-bearer to his master. However, when considering the myth surrounding Prometheus, the ferocious, darker side of Aquila is very evident. Prometheus was one of the last Titan gods who became an advisor to Zeus. He was protective of humankind and, seeing how they suffered because they had no fire, he stole a ray from the Sun which he smuggled down to earth in a hollow stem. Zeus did not believe that man was worthy of such a gift, and was furious that Prometheus had acted without his permission. The well-meaning Titan was chained to the side of a mountain, stripped of his garments, and was continually attacked by Aquila. Since he was immortal, his dreadful wounds healed themselves every evening, only to be opened up again the next day by Aquila. After many years Prometheus was saved by Hercules, who agreed with his kind deed to mankind. Using his bow and arrow, he killed Aquila, who was then placed by Zeus to soar in the heavens. "
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7uECi.png&hash=6d0c13f11b8f1dc8df70ba3f55ca4111dcb2bb86)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FO15hP.jpg&hash=7ecb1f4e0ea3cff2ce247f53d03702134a64e965)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FVRECm.png&hash=582574dba8e0af03ad9b4e8722f0ca04f750972c)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiqtuT.png&hash=9e694c198b56fbc45b6d56ce95eda2bd621896bd)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWVUWP.png&hash=9e37c07d1c26a57a21f9fca091c52493f950d8a5)
EDIT#1: Added "alignment" images.
EDIT#2: Fixed Zeta lines.
It's not spot on either. And if you look back at Eagle constellation, right above the star marked as #5 is another one that's matching the Prometheus map image.
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 02:08:23 AM
Considering we have four ringed gas giants in our own system, rings seem to be the rule rather than the exception. ;D
this is a very good point. although only two have prominent rings.
still, at a certain point, we're playing "guess what the director has in mind". they also point out on arstechnica that ridley scott spraypainted the alien sets towards the climax of the film because he got bored of white hallways and continuity be damned. would he make this big of a change and say they're the same moons? hard to say. or would he disconnect the two, like he keeps insisting? also hard to say, but i feel the safer bet.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Mar 20, 2012, 02:11:32 AMAlso, note how big the planet appears from space, yet notice how much smaller it is as seen from LV-426. For LV-426 to be any of the moons seen in the space shots, the planet would appear so large as to fill most of the sky. Since it's smaller than what we see in the space shots, LV-426 would have to be very far away from the planet--much further than any of the visible moons are.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi273.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj216%2Fklasodeth%2FAlien%2FApproach3.jpg&hash=4ea15a90d18b25fb6d66338d2196f170c321f49b)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi273.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj216%2Fklasodeth%2FAlien%2FSurface.jpg&hash=ae48be361e883388f450ded953a410ed59d1770e)
it's clear that they're just reusing the matte painting. it would have to be in the same position the viewer is in in the first shot -- with the nostromo going the wrong direction. i don't think that's right either.
Quote from: Wolv1337 on Mar 20, 2012, 02:23:22 AM
Prometheus isn't in Zeta 2 Reticuli at all. It's in completely different star system. It's in Eagle constellation, so that pretty much rules out LV-426.
interesting. can you highlight how exactly it lines up? i'm not
quite seeing it. looks like alpha-beta-gamma are the stars on the right, but the other ones don't seem to quite fit perfectly.
Quote from: 180924609 on Mar 20, 2012, 02:18:12 AM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Mar 20, 2012, 02:11:32 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Mar 20, 2012, 01:20:42 AM
However, it is possible that it's another moon orbiting the gas giant. There were two others.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frcoltrane.50webs.com%2FLV426.jpg&hash=2129ec6e934a6c49a1d31cda6f678c878daa241b)
That background plate is flipped and used again while on the surface indicating - if one wanted to be literal - either the circled planet isn't LV-426, or there's another moon obscured by the planet.
Also, note how big the planet appears from space, yet notice how much smaller it is as seen from LV-426. For LV-426 to be any of the moons seen in the space shots, the planet would appear so large as to fill most of the sky. Since it's smaller than what we see in the space shots, LV-426 would have to be very far away from the planet--much further than any of the visible moons are.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi273.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj216%2Fklasodeth%2FAlien%2FApproach3.jpg&hash=4ea15a90d18b25fb6d66338d2196f170c321f49b)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi273.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj216%2Fklasodeth%2FAlien%2FSurface.jpg&hash=ae48be361e883388f450ded953a410ed59d1770e)
Could be an eccentric orbit?
Possibly. Don't suppose LV-426 having a retrograde rotation makes any difference?
Quote from: Wolv1337 on Mar 20, 2012, 02:23:22 AM
Prometheus isn't in Zeta 2 Reticuli at all. It's in completely different star system. It's in Eagle constellation, so that pretty much rules out LV-426.
http://i.imgur.com/mp7Ym.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquila_%28constellation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquila_%28constellation)
"Aquila, the pet eagle of Zeus, showed the gentler side of his nature when he carefully carried up Ganymede to Mount Olympus to be cup-bearer to his master. However, when considering the myth surrounding Prometheus, the ferocious, darker side of Aquila is very evident. Prometheus was one of the last Titan gods who became an advisor to Zeus. He was protective of humankind and, seeing how they suffered because they had no fire, he stole a ray from the Sun which he smuggled down to earth in a hollow stem. Zeus did not believe that man was worthy of such a gift, and was furious that Prometheus had acted without his permission. The well-meaning Titan was chained to the side of a mountain, stripped of his garments, and was continually attacked by Aquila. Since he was immortal, his dreadful wounds healed themselves every evening, only to be opened up again the next day by Aquila. After many years Prometheus was saved by Hercules, who agreed with his kind deed to mankind. Using his bow and arrow, he killed Aquila, who was then placed by Zeus to soar in the heavens. "
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7uECi.png&hash=6d0c13f11b8f1dc8df70ba3f55ca4111dcb2bb86)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FO15hP.jpg&hash=7ecb1f4e0ea3cff2ce247f53d03702134a64e965)
Emmm...I don't know. I don't quite see the alignment associations between the "star map" and he Aquila constellation. Also, Altair is a very bright star, and outshines all the other stars in the Aquila constellation...so one would expect the "star map" to show one of the stars being "larger" then all the others.
Not saying you are wrong, but I am having trouble making the connection.
Quote from: Deuterium on Mar 20, 2012, 02:36:06 AMEmmm...I don't know. I don't quite see the alignment associations between the "star map" and he Aquila constellation. Also, Altair is a very bright star, and outshines all the other stars in the Aquila constellation...so one would expect the "star map" to show one of the stars being "larger" then all the others.
Not saying you are wrong, but I am having trouble making the connection.
i would think they'd all be big, bright stars, easily observed by ancient astronomers. then again, maybe not -- if ancient astronauts gave them the figure, they'd have knowledge unknown the ancient civilizations.
btw, that "no contact" thing is a total lie. three of the civilizations are hititte, sumerian, and babylonian. the hittites and the sumerians lived practically next door to each other, and the babylonians basically inherited sumeria.
Alignment doesn't 100% match neither of those 2 constellations, but thinking out of the box might bring up some new ideas / searches / discussions / revelations.
Hmmm.... the Aquila connection surely seems interesting - I can sort of see how the major stars align. The nearest stars are relatively near Earth (closer than Zeta Reticuli II), so a mission there with early FTL technology is entirely plausible within the logic of the established universe.
Then there's the notion that right beneath Aquila, you find the Sagittarius constellation, which is theorized to be the origin of the Wow! signal.... hmmm
If this indeed turns out to be the location for the plot of Prometheus, Wolf1337 deserves an instant 'Ripley' rank instead of that 'Alien Egg' nonsense for figuring it out. :)
Quote from: Wolv1337 on Mar 20, 2012, 02:23:22 AMIt's not spot on either. And if you look back at Eagle constellation, right above the star marked as #5 is another one that's matching the Prometheus map image.
SM noted that alpha usrae majoris (his candidate) was a spectroscopic binary star.
If it's not LV-426 Ridley has done a terrible job differentiating the two moons, and the two SJ ships. I don't see any reason not to make the planet and the ship more different if they're supposed to be different. Put a third arm on the SJ ship - boom, now you know 100% they aren't the same. Make the moon a regular planet and not a moon around another ringed gas giant. Make it a desert planet or an ice planet or a lava planet (look how well locations were differentiated in Star Wars). Why would Ridley risk confusing the audience?
I would chalk up the minor differences in the ship structure etc. to the film making process. There were little changes to the Enterprise E between the Next Gen films too. There are little changes to the Imperial Star Destroyers between A New Hope and Empire. Only the super hard core fans noticed.
To me the gross similarities between LV 426, this moon, and the SJ ships are more important than the minor changes in detail.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 02:57:04 AMMake the moon a regular planet and not a moon around another ringed gas giant. Make it a desert planet or an ice planet or a lava planet (look how well locations were differentiated in Star Wars). Why would Ridley risk confusing the audience?
the moons
are quite different. one is a ball of ice and rock that's constantly churning in thick atmospheric storms. the other looks a lot like it could be on earth.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 02:57:04 AMI would chalk up the minor differences in the ship structure etc. to the film making process. There were little changes to the Enterprise E between the Next Gen films too. There are little changes to the Imperial Star Destroyers between A New Hope and Empire. Only the super hard core fans noticed.
fwiw, i can tell the difference between the 4-foot and the 6-foot enterprise D pretty easily.
QuoteTo me the gross similarities between LV 426, this moon, and the SJ ships are more important than the minor changes in detail.
What "gross similarities" are there in the planets?
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 02:57:04 AM
If it's not LV-426 Ridley has done a terrible job differentiating the two moons, and the two SJ ships. I don't see any reason not to make the planet and the ship more different if they're supposed to be different. Put a third arm on the SJ ship - boom, now you know 100% they aren't the same. Make the moon a regular planet and not a moon around another ringed gas giant. Make it a desert planet or an ice planet or a lava planet (look how well locations were differentiated in Star Wars). Why would Ridley risk confusing the audience?
I would chalk up the minor differences in the ship structure etc. to the film making process. There were little changes to the Enterprise E between the Next Gen films too. There are little changes to the Imperial Star Destroyers between A New Hope and Empire. Only the super hard core fans noticed.
To me the gross similarities between LV 426, this moon, and the SJ ships are more important than the minor changes in detail.
He made the moons pretty damn different to me.
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Mar 20, 2012, 01:20:42 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fannex%2Fimages%2F5%2F5f%2FAlien-LV-426-Distant_Shot.jpg&hash=59e0b996a9172982507a32dc4fb0e96294c49fb3)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-n4CU6gEvWAA%2FT1ZvzanRs8I%2FAAAAAAAABM4%2FXWuqlffpVYw%2Fs1600%2Fprometheus_2012_movie_Ridley_Scott.jpg&hash=7a09a3be147b0a55da2fc0f062f7e8eb6e92e552)
The terrain in the first pic could easily be on the other side of the mountains in the 2nd pic. Or it could be the same spot we see the SJ ship crash in Prometheus, chewed up by events we don't know about yet. There's a potentially living biomechanical base at this location. In the time between Prometheus and Alien it could grow, push up the ground, die and leave the bone landscape in Alien.
The atmospheres - c'mon, there's more atmospheric variation here on Earth. I've seen a sunny blue sky and nightmare tornadic storm conditions within hours of each other. This is only the difference between a medium cloud cover and a super heavy cloud cover.
Then there's the fact that both orbit gas giants with very visible rings. From the creative point of view this is really the smoking gun. Why do something that's been done too many times already, when you've got so many other possibilities? The most likely answer is, because this is LV-426.
BTW, I remember reading at one point of a heavy meteor bombardment in Prometheus. I read it before we found out about the Prometheus ramming the SJ ship, and that may be what the "meteor shower" actually was, but A heavy meteor strike would explain both the landscape and the heavier sky seen in Alien.
Arachnophilia - You know I was talking about the E and not the D, right? The smaller D model was indeed a terrible piece of crap, but it's not what I was talking about, and I bet you're a fanboy/girl anyway ;D
Sgt. Apone - Where are you seeing Prometheus's moons?
Regardless, gas giants have lots of moons.
The main setting for Prometheus is a fairly flat glacial plain surrounded by high mountains.
We never really see high mountains or flat pains like that on LV-426 in two visits to two locations. It's wall to wall knobby Gigeresque protrusions.
If it is supposed to be LV-426, some global cataclysm changes it between this film and Alien.
Ringed gas giants look cool, also.
Wolv1337's last post on the previous page was enough to convince me, I didn't think this was LV-426 anyway, too much about this film just doesn't cut it, not least the cataclysmic changes that would have to happen, it probably isn't even the same system.
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 04:21:53 AM
The main setting for Prometheus is a fairly flat glacial plain surrounded by high mountains.
We never really see high mountains or flat pains like that on LV-426 in two visits to two locations. It's wall to wall knobby Gigeresque protrusions.
Two locations? I pictured the terraforming plant being within moon-buggy driving distance of the Derelict. Basically the same spot. What makes you think it's far away?
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 04:21:53 AM
If it is supposed to be LV-426, some global cataclysm changes it between this film and Alien.
Ringed gas giants look cool, also.
They're the new lens flare, ring explosion, etc. Which vehicle do you think will be the "Raptor?"
Seriously, Ridley is too good to throw in another ringed gas giant, especially with Avatar currently doing the "moon around a gas giant" thing too. If this is a different moon than - what a lazy decision to make on art direction. I need to see a real good explanation, like "SJ psychology keeps them from flying anywhere but moons around ringed gas giants."
And there's also this from the Weyland Timeline, someone else brought up in another thread, that just about nails it....
MAY 14TH, 2039 - DISCOVERY OF ACHERON LV-426
Weyland astronomers discover multiple moons and a ringed planet just outside the Zeta 2 Reticuli system, which are possibly able to support life. Weyland expects to travel there within the century.
JANUARY 1ST, 2073 - PROJECT PROMETHEUS UNDERWAY
Based on recent classified findings by Weyland researchers, the company determines the exact coordinates of a "new" destination for long-time pet project: Project Prometheus. New round of investment is immediately opened and mission planning enters full swing.
Thing is, if Weyland Industries knew about LV-426 in the Zeta 2 Reticuli system 34 years previously, why do they need to determine the location of a planet they already discovered?
Good point.
(Corrected spelling and all)
QuoteTwo locations? I pictured the terraforming plant being within moon-buggy driving distance of the Derelict. Basically the same spot. What makes you think it's far away?
It's far enough away that the colonists never stumbled across it in 20+ years.
QuoteIf this is a different moon than - what a lazy decision to make on art direction
Depends if it's prominent enough for anyone to really give a shit. Either way we'll know soon enough.
I think it is LV-426 for a couple reasons
1. The underground lair around the pyramid , I'm sure they go in the pyramid and see things and then they see a shaft that goes underground, which is where the ship and proto egg room might be.
2.the terrain looks eerily familiar especially at night, like LV-426
3.Of course the ship seems to have crashed and landed above the aforementioned underground lair.
Another thing is, how do we know this ship has only 1 level? Maybe the pilot room which looks very small is taking up the top space of the compartment of the ship? Which could be far fetched.
But all indications point to how this biomechanical being has made DNA that can change organisms into others while fusing it with whatever is around it.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 04:15:35 AMIn the time between Prometheus and Alien it could grow, push up the ground, die and leave the bone landscape in Alien.
nah, i don't think so. it's a very drastic change,
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 04:15:35 AMThe atmospheres - c'mon, there's more atmospheric variation here on Earth. I've seen a sunny blue sky and nightmare tornadic storm conditions within hours of each other. This is only the difference between a medium cloud cover and a super heavy cloud cover.
or one that looks kind of pretty, and one that rains methane. i'm not saying that there can't be climate variation. it's just that we never see any other kind of climate for LV-426. it's always cold, stormy, and raining methane. it's kind of like titan that way -- another moon of a ringed gas giant.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 04:15:35 AMThen there's the fact that both orbit gas giants with very visible rings. From the creative point of view this is really the smoking gun.
as i think SM pointed out, we have no fewer than FOUR ringed gas giants in our own solar system.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 04:15:35 AMWhy do something that's been done too many times already, when you've got so many other possibilities? The most likely answer is, because this is LV-426.
perhaps. but there's a lot of good reasons that it doesn't fit.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 04:15:35 AMBTW, I remember reading at one point of a heavy meteor bombardment in Prometheus. I read it before we found out about the Prometheus ramming the SJ ship, and that may be what the "meteor shower" actually was, but A heavy meteor strike would explain both the landscape and the heavier sky seen in Alien.
if by "heavy meteor" you mean extinction-event sized, like 6 miles across or so? yeah, maybe. enough to radically reshape the entire surface of the planet with volcanic activity, and throw all that dust up into the atmosphere? it would take a big, big meteor. but then, i doubt there'd still be a derelict.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 04:15:35 AMArachnophilia - You know I was talking about the E and not the D, right? The smaller D model was indeed a terrible piece of crap, but it's not what I was talking about, and I bet you're a fanboy/girl anyway ;D
i read it right, i was just pointing out that i'm aware of even a tiny difference like between the D models. and the smaller model is actually the better one, btw. there were three enterprise D models, two for the first season, a 6 foot model (used for almost everything) and a 2 foot model (used transitioning to warp, and not a whole lot else). in season 3, they built a new model, at 4 feet. it's proportionally different. they've added one deck to the saucer section, and i think one to the engineering section, and changed the window configuration on the front of the saucer. they did this to accommodate the new 10 forward sets, which did not match the exterior model. the whole 4 foot model is chunkier (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110607103713/memoryalpha/en/images/e/eb/Galaxy_class_differences_between_the_4-foot_and_6-foot_models.jpg), and it's way more detailed (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110727093724/memoryalpha/en/images/1/1c/USS_Enterprise-D_differences_between_6_and_4_foot_studio_models.jpg).
i'm watching the series again, and it's pretty easy to tell which model they're using. they're similar, but not exactly alike, even though it's all intended to be one ship. this is one of those silly things like bugs geeks, like the millenium falcon exterior sets and interior sets being completely incompatible. anyways, i didn't really pay close attention to the E model between movies, because, frankly, most of the TNG movies are pretty bad.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 05:02:15 AMTwo locations? I pictured the terraforming plant being within moon-buggy driving distance of the Derelict. Basically the same spot. What makes you think it's far away?
i think it says so in the director's cut. basically, the colonists had no idea it was there, until burke called 'em up and had them check it out.
Quote from: AsapJockey on Mar 20, 2012, 06:02:47 AMAnother thing is, how do we know this ship has only 1 level? Maybe the pilot room which looks very small is taking up the top space of the compartment of the ship? Which could be far fetched.
they show an internal map of it in the trailer. the doors go *up* to the top, where the "cockpit" is. there's a big chamber right below it.
And that chamber doesn't look big enough to be the same size as the egg chamber from Alien.
Which is one of my reasons I think it's LV-426, the ship crashes on top of the underground facility that houses what will be the future egg chamber
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 06:13:52 AM
And that chamber doesn't look big enough to be the same size as the egg chamber from Alien.
no, it really doesn't, does it? of course, people have thought for years that maybe the cavern is in the arms.
or, maybe, once crashed, the chip just kind of
grew into the landscape.
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 05:52:02 AM
It's far enough away that the colonists never stumbled across it in 20+ years.
Yeah, I think this is an area where the writing could be touched up. The Nostromo crew comments on how tiny LV-426 is, and it's going to be terraformed? Maybe if it was in Sol system, but LV-426 isn't exactly prime real estate. I get the feeling Cameron threw in something that sounded cool and moved on to writing the action scenes. Who knew they'd make more Alien movies?
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 20, 2012, 06:05:59 AM
it's kind of like titan that way -- another moon of a ringed gas giant.
Technically Earth has rings too, but neither Earth nor Jupiter nor any planet in the solar system but Saturn have visible rings.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 20, 2012, 06:05:59 AMas i think SM pointed out, we have no fewer than FOUR ringed gas giants in our own solar system.
So? The idea is to differentiate this planet from LV-426, if they're different. You can do that by putting it not-around the same kind of gas giant. How many gas giants there are in the universe doesn't matter.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 20, 2012, 06:05:59 AM
i read it right, i was just pointing out that i'm aware of even a tiny difference like between the D models. and the smaller model is actually the better one, btw. there were three enterprise D models, two for the first season, a 6 foot model (used for almost everything) and a 2 foot model (used transitioning to warp, and not a whole lot else). in season 3, they built a new model, at 4 feet. it's proportionally different. they've added one deck to the saucer section, and i think one to the engineering section, and changed the window configuration on the front of the saucer. they did this to accommodate the new 10 forward sets, which did not match the exterior model. the whole 4 foot model is chunkier, and it's way more detailed.
Well it furthers my point about design changes being made, and lack of perfect consistency. While I always hated to see the 4 foot model, the show remained popular until the end.
Besides, I see no reason why a wrecked biomechanical ship can't warp around and mummify as it ages.
After reading the news timeline archive, perhaps the LV-425 theory merits consideration.
If Prometheus deals with terraforming, and we're talking about the SJ's terraforming instead of humans, perhaps the LV 42X gas giant system is a good place to experiment with terraforming. You've got a few little worlds close together to work on, cometary matter being sucked into the system by the gas giant's gravity well, maybe you could suck atmosphere off the gas giant and put it on a moon.
If you imagine LV 42X as a system of SJ complexes, things make more sense. The moon we're seeing and LV 426 have atmospheres that are similar, yet different, because both were terraformed by the SJ's. They're at different stages in the terraforming process. The ringed gas giant looks the same because it is the same. The ships look the same because it's a big installation and they use several of that model.
Moons that aren't terraformed could be useful for testing the xenomorphs ability to survive in harsh environments. You could have a volcano moon and an ice moon right next to each other.
Might be totally wrong but it fits with what I know so far.
From what Ridley Scott said in June 2010, we know a lot of the film takes place within the Zeta II Reticuli system:
'FirstShowing.net's Alex Billington sent me a heads up after posting this that Scott also mentioned they're going to be exploring Zeta 2 Reticuli, the same system from Alien. Naturally they'd be going back at some point if the prequel leads up to Alien, but from what Scott was saying it seems like this system plays a large role in the prequels.'
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45454 (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45454)
So from at least June 2010 there's been mention of the same system as Alien, but not necessarily the same planet.
I'm pretty sure that was before the change from this not being a direct alien prequel. Things could have changed in that regard very much.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 08:43:40 AM
I'm pretty sure that was before the change from this not being a direct alien prequel. Things could have changed in that regard very much.
Personally I suspect everything said about this not being an alien movie or a prequel to Alien is pure misdirection. I suspect it was an alien movie from day one and was never anything else at any point in the process. They're just trying to avoid what happened to The Abyss when competing studios rushed out Deep Star Six and Leviiathan.
I assumed from about 20 years ago that the derelict was a time capsule with the intention of being discovered at a certain point in the future when it's predicted that man would be technically evolved enough, The engineers in Clifford D. Simak's Cosmic Engineers could predict in that sort of way.
The terrain could if drastically changed who know squat else happens after the events in Prometheus
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:16:49 AM
It has to be lv- 426 space jockeys would not crash 2 ships
lol thats a very simple but smart way to put it.
Quote from: Infected on Mar 20, 2012, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 20, 2012, 12:16:49 AM
It has to be lv- 426 space jockeys would not crash 2 ships
lol thats a very simple but smart way to put it.
It's true a super intelligent race would not crash two ships even if one was because of us
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 10:55:29 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 08:43:40 AM
I'm pretty sure that was before the change from this not being a direct alien prequel. Things could have changed in that regard very much.
Personally I suspect everything said about this not being an alien movie or a prequel to Alien is pure misdirection. I suspect it was an alien movie from day one and was never anything else at any point in the process. They're just trying to avoid what happened to The Abyss when competing studios rushed out Deep Star Six and Leviiathan.
I agree. One thing that I suspect (but hoping I'm wrong) is that the whole concept of it being it's own movie is a clever way to simply cover up inevitable holes in the plot. There will be plot holes I'm sure, but in this way Scott can say that, for example, "well, it's not an Alien prequel..." when asked about such things like LV-426. I'm assuming that Scott and Cameron didn't sit down and de-conflict all of the extremely finite details. Again, I hope he did though :)
Scott is a brilliant director and I'm sure he will amaze us all. For the time-being I am going to be pessimistic. I think this is a good approach because it allows me to be pleasantly surprised at the attention to detail when I see the film, as apposed to being slightly disappointed by the inevitable plot holes that we will find as fans.
(Long time reader, first time poster. Hope you guys don't mind my two cents.)
However, as pointed out before, on the Weyland Corp timeline, Zeta 2 Reticuli is touted to be a terraformable system in 2039 but in 2073, a New Destination for Project Prometheus Is Found.
Project Prometheus was originally a development of a far-reaching drive for a spacecraft, it seems likely the new location is somewhere not anywhere near Zeta 2 Reticuli and infact further out than humanity had reached at that point in history.
Whilst Ridley did say the crew would be going to the Zeta 2 Reticuli star system, that wouldn't make sense if they found co-ordinates to a new destination, somewhere where they'd need a new and technologically advanced spacecraft to go to.
They could have easily said in the timeline that they were headed to a top secret system for future plans to be unveiled as Zeta 2 Reticuli at a later date (as clearly in the 2040s they didn't have the tech to reach it quite yet, even with Heliades FTL ships and early hypersleep chambers - strange, but maybe it isn't until later that they bypass aging in hypersleep), but they didn't. They said it was a new destination.
I'm more inclined to believe it is one of the other systems touted so far than a return to Zeta 2 Reticuli. Maybe the crew take a pit-stop or end up on Zeta 2, but its not the actual destination the timeline leads us to believe and where the original mission was probably headed.
QuoteWhich is one of my reasons I think it's LV-426, the ship crashes on top of the underground facility that houses what will be the future egg chamber
It crashes precisely on top of a underground chamber that has indentical walls to the Derelict itself.
Boy, what fabulous luck! What are the odds eh?
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 07:23:56 PM
QuoteWhich is one of my reasons I think it's LV-426, the ship crashes on top of the underground facility that houses what will be the future egg chamber
It crashes precisely on top of a underground chamber that has indentical walls to the Derelict itself.
Boy, what fabulous luck! What are the odds eh?
cough
Robin Hood cough
A few examples of how Ridley Scott's last work was mind-bogglingly wrong and lazy -
1) The Black Knight Maid Marion
2) The Children of the Corn
3) The above, engaging in combat with actual soldiers
4) Robin - "I can't remember my father."
Elder Locksley - "You can do it!"
Robin - "Oh shizzle I had a flashback!"
5) The French had WW2 style landing craft?
I'm hoping for better from Ridley this time (would like my two hours back from Robin Hood) but if it turns out Prometheus is filled with the amazing stupid, I can't say i wasn't warned.
This is relevant how?
Maybe... after the alien spaceship temporarily crashed in the Prometheus palent...in the hold one egg opens and the pilot is infected. After the ship restart and crashed on LV-426. The company will spend 30 years to find it ("Nostromo mission").
Quote from: Lord Freezer on Mar 20, 2012, 09:53:21 PM
Maybe... after the alien spaceship temporarily crashed in the Prometheus palent...in the hold one egg opens and the pilot is infected. After the ship restart and crashed on LV-426. The company will spend 30 years to find it ("Nostromo mission").
Honestly? No. Just... No.
Now I don't think it will take place on lv-426, mainly because when that planet is terraformed and colonized during the time between the first Alien film and the second, no one found any pyramids, dead life forms or debris of spacecraft on it, and instead surveyed the planet and set up their colony.
^Newt's parents found the Derelict in Aliens so he was there at the time of the construction of the AP and the colony. They should have seen It.
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 07:23:56 PM
QuoteWhich is one of my reasons I think it's LV-426, the ship crashes on top of the underground facility that houses what will be the future egg chamber
It crashes precisely on top of a underground chamber that has indentical walls to the Derelict itself.
Boy, what fabulous luck! What are the odds eh?
And yet this species can't possible crash two of their ships. ;D
Obviously they have lots of experiencing crashing ships.
That's some precision crashing right there!
I would be really disappointed if this is not LV-426.
Like said already, it's pretty unbelievable that a superior alien race would crash two ships.
Though at the same time, by showing the crash in the trailer we already know how the ship goes down, so the mystery of "what happened, how did it get there?" is answered without watching the film. If it is the same ship/ LV-426 of course.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 10:55:29 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 08:43:40 AM
I'm pretty sure that was before the change from this not being a direct alien prequel. Things could have changed in that regard very much.
Personally I suspect everything said about this not being an alien movie or a prequel to Alien is pure misdirection. I suspect it was an alien movie from day one and was never anything else at any point in the process. They're just trying to avoid what happened to The Abyss when competing studios rushed out Deep Star Six and Leviiathan.
good points, but i think there's a bit more to it than just that, i think its to disassociate itself from the avp movies and also to try and appeal to a larger audience than just alien fans due to its big budget.
alien movies and more recently avp and predators although do ok numbers they aren't exactly batman or harry potter numbers at the box office so prometheus needs to do much better than those to cover its larger budget and make a decent profit.
as to wether its on lv426.. i honestly dont know.
thanks
rich
Quote from: EEV-2501 on Mar 20, 2012, 11:06:55 PM
^Newt's parents found the Derelict in Aliens so he was there at the time of the construction of the AP and the colony. They should have seen It.
Yeah but considering that the prometheus gets destroyed based on what we know from the trailer, wouldn't finding remains of technology from earth on a planet that was supposedly undiscovered, make people suspicious? Not finding a remote derelict ship is one thing, not finding the huge, pyramid structure that houses the giant humanoid face, etc. and not finding debris from the resulting destruction of a large spacecraft is another.
Also, the climate of the planet seemed different, unless I'm mistaken on that. But it looked like blue skies and a less hostile enviroment than lv-426(and NO I don't mean the waterfalls etc.) Unless we have only been shown lv-426 when it was conveniently night time or just cloud cover and dismal rain in the Alien films, It suggests to me its another planet or moon.
Quote from: MR EL1M1NATOR on Mar 20, 2012, 11:21:39 PM
I would be really disappointed if this is not LV-426.
Like said already, it's pretty unbelievable that a superior alien race would crash two ships.
Though at the same time, by showing the crash in the trailer we already know how the ship goes down, so the mystery of "what happened, how did it get there?" is answered without watching the film. If it is the same ship/ LV-426 of course.
No it isn't. Especially when A. The one of LV-426 was never intended to be a CRASHED ship. It was a derelict ship. Meaning its long since dead and abandoned. There's no signs of a crash. The structure of the craft appeared intact, and the terrain around showed no signs of a crash. Not to mention neither Nostromo's people, or the colony ever found any signs of human ship remains, or of a temple, or of anything else on the planet but the derelict.
It's not going to be LV-426. The one other point to make is that it has been said by the writer that it isn't LV-426.
People really are gunning to set themselves up for disappointment.
The space jockey ship is most likley extremely strong so the Prometheus ship probally got abliterated and we don't know if the ship in Alien crashed or not but most likely it crashed
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 11:41:45 PM
No it isn't. Especially when A. The one of LV-426 was never intended to be a CRASHED ship. It was a derelict ship. Meaning its long since dead and abandoned. There's no signs of a crash. The structure of the craft appeared intact, and the terrain around showed no signs of a crash. Not to mention neither Nostromo's people, or the colony ever found any signs of human ship remains, or of a temple, or of anything else on the planet but the derelict.
It's not going to be LV-426. The one other point to make is that it has been said by the writer that it isn't LV-426.
People really are gunning to set themselves up for disappointment.
I dunno, but I thought the crew entered the derelict in alien through a whole in the side? And seeing as the assumed pilot was dead in his chair kind of hints at a crash. Though this is just assumption yes.
No they entered through vaginal portholes, and the chestburster killed the Jockey.
(The big hole in the chest is a bit of a giveaway).
They entered through a tear in the hull in Aliens - the only time we really see a damaged Derelict. The distorted shape of the Derelict in Alien could possibly have been caused by the crash in the trailer - but there needs to be some fairly funky crashing going on for it to end up in that shape.
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 21, 2012, 12:00:09 AM
The space jockey ship is most likley extremely strong so the Prometheus ship probally got abliterated and we don't know if the ship in Alien crashed or not but most likely it crashed
Most likely based on
what exactly? As many have pointed out. The intention of the script and other elements says otherwise.
Quote from: MR EL1M1NATOR on Mar 21, 2012, 12:01:12 AM
I dunno, but I thought the crew entered the derelict in alien through a whole in the side? And seeing as the assumed pilot was dead in his chair kind of hints at a crash. Though this is just assumption yes.
It was one of three holes. Holes that the ship in Prometheus has too. The three ovoid/vaginal openings are on both ships. The three on Prometheus's version of the ship are there before the crash and impact, too. So that doesn't mean anything.
That's making the additional assumption that it could even
leave the chair. If it's a biomechanoid suit, and the ship had suffered some kind of damage (which could explain it landing on LV-426) it's possible that it couldn't leave the chair once it put down. Damage was too great. It goes into many questions about how the craft is operated, and what the relationship between the chair and the craft even is. If it's a biomechanoid interface as seems to be the case, damage to the ship could damage the chair, or vice versa. One thing is for certain. More evidence suggests this is not LV-426 than that it is.
I'm surprised that everyone just ignored my last post and are still arguing this... :(
Anyway, yes - evidence points that the scenery shown is not LV-426.
Some ignored it when RoaryUK first brought it up. Why would your post make any difference?
Ive actually given up speculating...
Dont get me wrong, I really can't wait to see this movie, I haven't been this hyped for a movie since Episode one...to be honest I dont think ive seen this much hype for a movie since Episode one. Ive been reading more than actually getting involved in convo's/debates, purely because alot of people now are just going around in circles etc.
Though I couldn't resist getting my view across on this particular question mark, is the planet in Prometheus LV - 426? Now I personally think it actually is, theres certain rock formations that ive seen in the trailers that resemble the those in Alien, also the gravity and atomoshere seems to be the same e.g. they wearing masks and are running/walking like they were able to in Alien. At the moment I can't see why this exact Space Ship (Jokey) would be a different one...unless another one was sent out to see what happened then became infected and crashed landed on another planetoid. Theres going to be a connection and I believe that connection will be through the same crashed ship we see in Prometheus and Alien.
I could be completely wrong...but this is whats getting me ultra excited, this could be anything and we all speculating and having our own views/opinions/ideas....we could all be sooo wrong.
Why are some people still having such a big problem with this, there are 2 ships, both got grounded for seperate reasons, chances are we're going to see a few of these Jockey ships, especially if the 'they're heading for Earth' scenario developes into something. There is absolutely no way such an advanced civilization would have only one ship, that would be the dumbest idea ever, so why is it so unlikely they may have lost more than one in the course of time, when we lost 100's of vessels in 2 world wars for God's sake!! Some people are just reading far too much into it.
Quote from: RoaryUK on Mar 21, 2012, 02:50:33 AM
Why are some people still having such a big problem with this, there are 2 ships, both got grounded for seperate reasons, chances are we we're going to see a few of these Jockey ships, especially if the 'they're heading for Earth' scenario developes into something. There's absolutely no way such an advanced civilization would have only one ship, that would be the dumbest idea ever, so why is it so unlikely they may have lost more than one in the course of time, when we lost 100's of vessels in 2 world wars for God's sake!! Some people are just to reading far too much into it.
You kinda just contradicted yourself there mr...
Your also saying it as if you know what you think is going to happen...this is why ive avoided posting tbh. I think theres one ship, you think theres two, fair enough, interesting idea. Where did you get the
they're heading to earth?
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Mar 21, 2012, 02:55:29 AM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Mar 21, 2012, 02:50:33 AM
Why are some people still having such a big problem with this, there are 2 ships, both got grounded for seperate reasons, chances are we we're going to see a few of these Jockey ships, especially if the 'they're heading for Earth' scenario developes into something. There's absolutely no way such an advanced civilization would have only one ship, that would be the dumbest idea ever, so why is it so unlikely they may have lost more than one in the course of time, when we lost 100's of vessels in 2 world wars for God's sake!! Some people are just to reading far too much into it.
You kinda just contradicted yourself there mr...
Your also saying it as if you know what you think is going to happen...this is why ive avoided posting tbh. I think theres one ship, you think theres two, fair enough, interesting idea. Where did you get the they're heading to earth?
"IF we don't stop them, there wont be any home to go back to!"
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 21, 2012, 03:12:08 AM
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Mar 21, 2012, 02:55:29 AM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Mar 21, 2012, 02:50:33 AM
Why are some people still having such a big problem with this, there are 2 ships, both got grounded for seperate reasons, chances are we we're going to see a few of these Jockey ships, especially if the 'they're heading for Earth' scenario developes into something. There's absolutely no way such an advanced civilization would have only one ship, that would be the dumbest idea ever, so why is it so unlikely they may have lost more than one in the course of time, when we lost 100's of vessels in 2 world wars for God's sake!! Some people are just to reading far too much into it.
You kinda just contradicted yourself there mr...
Your also saying it as if you know what you think is going to happen...this is why ive avoided posting tbh. I think theres one ship, you think theres two, fair enough, interesting idea. Where did you get the they're heading to earth?
"IF we don't stop them, there wont be any home to go back to!"
Yes I heard this, but there's nothing in that line to say there's more than one ship, its still speculation.
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Mar 21, 2012, 02:55:29 AM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Mar 21, 2012, 02:50:33 AM
Why are some people still having such a big problem with this, there are 2 ships, both got grounded for seperate reasons, chances are we we're going to see a few of these Jockey ships, especially if the 'they're heading for Earth' scenario developes into something. There's absolutely no way such an advanced civilization would have only one ship, that would be the dumbest idea ever, so why is it so unlikely they may have lost more than one in the course of time, when we lost 100's of vessels in 2 world wars for God's sake!! Some people are just to reading far too much into it.
You kinda just contradicted yourself there mr...
Your also saying it as if you know what you think is going to happen...this is why ive avoided posting tbh. I think theres one ship, you think theres two, fair enough, interesting idea. Where did you get the they're heading to earth?
Where's the contradiction exactly?? All I'm pointing out is the obvious, a civilization like this would have more than one ship, beyond that I know as much as anyone else.
"they're heading for Earth" isn't a quote it's a scenario as it appears in the full trailer from 1:44.
Holloway:(voice over) They're leaving.
Shaw: To go where?
David: Earth.
How they find this out is anyone's guess, but if the Jockeys leave in one ship which eventually gets brought down, I can't help feeling that would be rather lame. Especially given other possible clues about them, such as the saucer ship at the beginning of the trailer, the idea at least one of them visited Earth before as depicted by other civilizations, and most important of all, how it's never been confirmed this film takes place on LV-426, quite the opposite in fact, when it would be so easy to do if that indeed turns out to be the case.... something I find really strange.
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Mar 21, 2012, 03:14:31 AM
Yes I heard this, but there's nothing in that line to say there's more than one ship, its still speculation.
We already know because we've been told. Both the writer(s) and Scott have stated that we are not on LV-426, and that Prometheus is not a direct Alien prequel. :)
Sacrificing the Prometheus to take out the SJ ship suggests only one SJ ship. Earth is still around in Aliens, which suggests only one SJ ship (on the moon Prometheus visits). It seems unlikely that a bunch of other SJ ships launch after the first one crashes. Not impossible of course.
Quote from: SM on Mar 20, 2012, 09:52:29 PM
This is relevant how?
Really? I like a couple of Ridley Scott's movies too but let's not fool ourselves - he can screw up pretty bad. Robin Hood was awful. I'm very much hoping he will display better judgement with Prometheus but I'm seeing many causes for concern.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 21, 2012, 08:25:20 AM
Sacrificing the Prometheus to take out the SJ ship suggests only one SJ ship. Earth is still around in Aliens, which suggests only one SJ ship (on the moon Prometheus visits). It seems unlikely that a bunch of other SJ ships launch after the first one crashes. Not impossible of course.
No, it really doesn't mean any of that, actually.
It's simple. The crew of the Prometheus disturbed
this ship.
This ship decides to go attack Earth.
We don't know that the ship in Alien had any intentions with regards to Earth.
Just to clarify something on my earlier ideas about other Jockey ships, of course, I am aware that Alien or non of it's sequels can happen if these Jockey's reached Earth. Maybe they aren't even going to Earth, that was based on an assumption from the trailer. But I do think there's going to be a major cliff hanger, we know from Scott this film leaves many questions at the end, and I'm guessing all will be revealed in a Prometheus 2 ....hopefully ;)
One of the writers said it was too closely related
To alien http://m.movies.com/movie-news/prometheus-interview/7133?wssac=164&wssaffid=news (http://m.movies.com/movie-news/prometheus-interview/7133?wssac=164&wssaffid=news)
I think that this isn't LV-426, and that we deal here with a different ship : from what I can see in the trailers etc., it's obvious, and the other indications (the chronology for instance) seem to indicate this.
Remember that you cannot put on the same level the things Scott has said when the project was beginning and the things that he says now.
If there is a really direct link to Alien - I mean, in what regards the derelict spaceship on LV-426, I think of it that way : a survivor, the android or even only data, are recovered by the Company, probably decades after the main events depicted in the movie, and are able, if only fragmentarily (and here some tech described in the chronology take their importance), to describe the potential of SJ technology and life forms. Assuming that the events of Prometheus have lead to some catastroph eradicating the structure the team visits (the storm is a possibility) and the SJ ship, the Company seeks secretly other places where this civilization could have been active and manages to hide special assignations in secondary ships that would discover a signal (given the nature of the mission, and the fact that the crew is expandable, it is impossible to rely on explorations like the one in Prometheus). It is also possible that data from the ship analyzed by David can give clues about an old and lost SJ mission that was to pass near LV-426... leading Weyland-Yutani to organize a plan that could enable it to bring back a specimen without causing suspicion (thanks to Ash, of course).
I've always liked the idea that the Derelict in Alien had been there for centuries, and even thousands (and more) years, the remnant, the echo, of an extinct or nearly extinct civilization. I find possible and interesting the idea that the SJ (or the few SJ) in Prometheus were the last member(s) of this species, or the only ones alive present in the galaxy, but there are other explanations for what we can guess of the plot.
Whatever, I'm curious about what we're going to see in Prometheus. We're going to learn things about the SJ at last, but I'm sure there will still be many mysteries.
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 21, 2012, 11:34:50 AM
One of the writers said it was too closely related
To alien http://m.movies.com/movie-news/prometheus-interview/7133?wssac=164&wssaffid=news (http://m.movies.com/movie-news/prometheus-interview/7133?wssac=164&wssaffid=news)
Everything they say there is it's NOT too closely related.
Quote from: Queen7 on Mar 21, 2012, 11:34:50 AM
One of the writers said it was too closely related
To alien http://m.movies.com/movie-news/prometheus-interview/7133?wssac=164&wssaffid=news (http://m.movies.com/movie-news/prometheus-interview/7133?wssac=164&wssaffid=news)
Quoteyou have this guy who was on his own for two-and-a-half years while everyone else was in cryostasis
So how long does it take to get to lv-426? :D
10 months for a tug in 2122.
3 weeks for a military transport in 2179.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 06:52:24 AM[Technically Earth has rings too, but neither Earth nor Jupiter nor any planet in the solar system but Saturn have visible rings.
uranus has visible rings, that were (officially) discovered from earth, in 1977. there were dubious reports of them some 200 years before that, too.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 06:52:24 AMSo? The idea is to differentiate this planet from LV-426, if they're different. You can do that by putting it not-around the same kind of gas giant. How many gas giants there are in the universe doesn't matter.
fwiw, i agree with this idea. the issue isn't necessarily a
factual one, but a creative one.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 06:52:24 AMBesides, I see no reason why a wrecked biomechanical ship can't warp around and mummify as it ages.
i don't think the design changes mean anything in particular. it's just a different movie. the aliens themselves change dramatically over the course of four movies, yet we all understand they're supposed to be the same kind of organism.
Quote from: Cavalorn on Mar 20, 2012, 08:32:00 AMFrom what Ridley Scott said in June 2010, we know a lot of the film takes place within the Zeta II Reticuli system:
a lot can change in two years.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 20, 2012, 10:55:29 AMPersonally I suspect everything said about this not being an alien movie or a prequel to Alien is pure misdirection. I suspect it was an alien movie from day one and was never anything else at any point in the process. They're just trying to avoid what happened to The Abyss when competing studios rushed out Deep Star Six and Leviiathan.
what's competing with prometheus, though? i don't see any good reason to suspect what they're saying, or to think it's any more tied to the alien movies than the trailers would suggest. i think it's kind of really just in the imagination of die hard fans that it's something more because they want so hard to believe...
Quote from: harlock on Mar 20, 2012, 07:11:32 PM
However, as pointed out before, on the Weyland Corp timeline, Zeta 2 Reticuli is touted to be a terraformable system in 2039 but in 2073, a New Destination for Project Prometheus Is Found.
that's a good point -- but i'll question the veracity of the timeline either way. it's marketing material, and may not reflect what will be in the actual film.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 20, 2012, 11:41:45 PMNo it isn't. Especially when A. The one of LV-426 was never intended to be a CRASHED ship. It was a derelict ship. Meaning its long since dead and abandoned. There's no signs of a crash. The structure of the craft appeared intact, and the terrain around showed no signs of a crash. Not to mention neither Nostromo's people, or the colony ever found any signs of human ship remains, or of a temple, or of anything else on the planet but the derelict.
to be fair, even after the prometheus impacts it, and it hits the ground, and rolls, it still looks completely undamaged. but i do think your point is valid -- if the crash we see in the trailer is the site of the derelict in
alien, there should be debris from the prometheus around it.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 21, 2012, 12:11:15 AMThat's making the additional assumption that it could even leave the chair. If it's a biomechanoid suit, and the ship had suffered some kind of damage (which could explain it landing on LV-426) it's possible that it couldn't leave the chair once it put down. Damage was too great. It goes into many questions about how the craft is operated, and what the relationship between the chair and the craft even is. If it's a biomechanoid interface as seems to be the case, damage to the ship could damage the chair, or vice versa. One thing is for certain. More evidence suggests this is not LV-426 than that it is.
prior to
prometheus the thought was always that the pilot, chair, and ship were basically one organism. it was grown into the chair, and couldn't leave it anymore than you could leave your feet.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 21, 2012, 08:25:20 AM
Sacrificing the Prometheus to take out the SJ ship suggests only one SJ ship. Earth is still around in Aliens, which suggests only one SJ ship (on the moon Prometheus visits). It seems unlikely that a bunch of other SJ ships launch after the first one crashes. Not impossible of course.
assuming for a second that the one on LV-426 is a separate ship, it could have already been there for centuries, millenia. who knows. it's not like they'd be coming in for a rescue. the pilot was dead, and left a warning beacon.
Quote from: SM on Mar 22, 2012, 12:27:51 AM
10 months for a tug in 2122.
3 weeks for a military transport in 2179.
yeah, the technology changes so much i doubt we can make any real conclusions from the duration of the trip. fwiw, all three of those speeds are pretty damned impressive, considering that z2 reticuli is 39 light years away from earth.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 21, 2012, 08:54:35 AM
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 21, 2012, 08:25:20 AM
Sacrificing the Prometheus to take out the SJ ship suggests only one SJ ship. Earth is still around in Aliens, which suggests only one SJ ship (on the moon Prometheus visits). It seems unlikely that a bunch of other SJ ships launch after the first one crashes. Not impossible of course.
No, it really doesn't mean any of that, actually.
It's simple. The crew of the Prometheus disturbed this ship. This ship decides to go attack Earth.
We don't know that the ship in Alien had any intentions with regards to Earth.
I dunno, I guess there could be hundreds of ships with SJ crews in hypersleep, but it's pretty amazing for one group of SJ's to meet a new race and decide to go off and invade their homeworld, without telling the others. It's pretty risky of the humans to sacrifice their only ship (that we know of) and hope the other SJ's don't notice the big explosion and crash.
Maybe there are more ships but only enough SJ's left to crew one.
Arachnophilia - Uranus's rings are pretty far from Saturn's rings.
I agree that the design changes of the SJ ship may only reflect a change in artistic direction, not a new ship.
The change in landscape is more of a stretch. I think it needs explaining, if it's the same place, but I've seen dumber things happen in movies. Like the flashback scene in Robin Hood. Ridley has shown us that there are times when he simply does_not_care.
The timeline points to extrasolar exploration and colonisation decades before the film takes place.
So the Prometheus is far from "their only ship".
Another thing that's curious about this ramming business - the Prometheus seems to be more than a match for the SJ ship, at least with the way each are crewed. The SJ ship isn't able to take any action to avoid collision, be it raising shields, maneuvering out of the way, cloaking, or shooting Prometheus down.
Why is the Prometheus crew so worried Earth can't handle the SJ's? It looks like they go down pretty easy. Same as the alien, which in itself only seems to be dangerous in places where there are more aliens than bullets. That ain't Earth.
Quote from: SM on Mar 22, 2012, 06:09:08 AM
The timeline points to extrasolar exploration and colonisation decades before the film takes place.
So the Prometheus is far from "their only ship".
If you mean "humanity's only ship," sure, but I was referring to the crew in the film. So far as we know, Weyland and company only brought one ship along.
It's always been my belief that the SJ's were akin to Bezerkers.
They don't like other forms of intelligent life too much.
Granted, that's just my take, but it fits the idea. If they know about some kind of intelligent life, they kill it.
That could be part of what these ships are all about. Boobytraps across the stars designed to seek out life and destroy it. Or rather, bring intelligent life to THEM for study, and once they've been studied, they are destroyed.
QuoteThey don't like other forms of intelligent life too much.
Is that why they tried to warn others away from LV-426?
QuoteIf you mean "humanity's only ship," sure, but I was referring to the crew in the film. So far as we know, Weyland and company only brought one ship along.
Fair enough.
Quote from: SM on Mar 22, 2012, 10:25:57 AM
Is that why they tried to warn others away from LV-426?
That's hardly definitive in the story. Ripley said "looks like" doesn't mean it is. The warning could have just as easily, and was more than likely for it's own kind.
LV-426 still has a couple of sister moons as well.
Plus, personally I think they are lying about a few things to keep secrets and doing some of the "leaks" we have see to keep people guessing.
No one knows what planet it is. We find out when something leaks or in the first few weeks of June, or later depending where you live.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 22, 2012, 10:45:53 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 22, 2012, 10:25:57 AM
Is that why they tried to warn others away from LV-426?
That's hardly definitive in the story. Ripley said "looks like" doesn't mean it is. The warning could have just as easily, and was more than likely for it's own kind.
Hardly definative? It's a major plot point which proves correct.
And if humans sent out a warning, are we going to be picky about what language it's sent in?
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 22, 2012, 06:03:49 AMI dunno, I guess there could be hundreds of ships with SJ crews in hypersleep, but it's pretty amazing for one group of SJ's to meet a new race and decide to go off and invade their homeworld, without telling the others. It's pretty risky of the humans to sacrifice their only ship (that we know of) and hope the other SJ's don't notice the big explosion and crash.
i have a theory about this.
i think that, at the beginning of the movie, the "space jockeys" are a long extinct, ancient race of biological engineers. the ampules contain their genetic code, which is what infects the crew. note that the alien we see walking around noticably varies in size -- i think he's a former member of the prometheus crew.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 22, 2012, 06:03:49 AMMaybe there are more ships but only enough SJ's left to crew one.
well, i think, either way the one on LV-426 is way, way older than this one. and that in this movie, it's really only that one ship they have to worry for the time being -- until the end, which might end on a cliffhanger of "but wait there's more!"
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 22, 2012, 06:03:49 AMArachnophilia - Uranus's rings are pretty far from Saturn's rings.
proportionally, uranus's rings (http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/multimedia/gallery/Uranus_2001-2007.jpg) look very much like saturn's. except that they're on sideways, because the planet's poles are roughly on the ecliptic, as opposed to roughly perpendicular to it.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 22, 2012, 06:03:49 AMThe change in landscape is more of a stretch. I think it needs explaining, if it's the same place, but I've seen dumber things happen in movies. Like the flashback scene in Robin Hood. Ridley has shown us that there are times when he simply does_not_care.
and that's fine. maybe it's a f**k up. but considering the whole "not a prequel" schtick he's been on lately, i think the safer bet is on it being a different place. i mean, he'd have gotten the moon-of-a-ringed-gas-giant thing right. i think cameron even f**ked that one up. who remembers that kind of obscure detail?
Cameron reasoned that the primary was out of frame in the handful of space shots.
No idea if that was reasoning out a f**k up (doubt it) or explaining around a more expensive effects shot.
I have said this numerous times already on here but it doesn't make sense for this to NOT be LV-426 and the orig derelict.
The films set before ALIEN - check, The film is set on a similar planet to LV-426 which also just happenes to orbit a huge ringed gas giant - check, you have space jockeys in this - check, you have the space jockey ship in this - check, you have the space jockey ship CRASH in this - check!.
Its jusyt going to confuse way too many people who haven't been following this film as closely as we have if this isn't about the derelict and LV-426 etc.
The only way i could see this being about a different jockey/ship on a different planet is the sequel effect, obviously FOX will want a sequel if this does well and they wouldn't be able to really do that if this film leads right into ALIEN.
Apart from the sequel factor then i don't see what point it would be to do a film about a complete different space jockey who just happens to crash his ship onto a similar looking planet to LV-426 which just happens to be orbiting a ringed gas giant, come on now guys!.
I don't remember LV426 having that many Engineer's temples or ships ^^
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg209.imageshack.us%2Fimg209%2F7210%2Fprometheusimaxteaser720.jpg&hash=b9d89c73749d2aaea3ea911009a0766179624350)
I think it is
QuoteLV426 having that many Engineer's temples or ships
And mountains and plains like those in the picture.
Quotewhich also just happenes to orbit a huge ringed gas giant
A kind of planet that is everything but uncommon... And that is beautiful, picturesque, etc. : artistic decision.
I don't want to be "rude", but amongst the people that will watch the movie, there will maybe be 0,01 % of real hardcore fans of
Alien. The percentage of people that will find that having taken a gas giant as background for the arrival scene of the Prometheus is a matter of confusion... is very small, sorry.
Quoteassuming for a second that the one on LV-426 is a separate ship, it could have already been there for centuries, millenia
Yes. Favorite solution.
There are already some matters of confusion between
Alien and
Aliens. It would be unwise to add a layer to them. But I don't understand why there is a debate, since it seems pretty clear it is not LV-426 !
Quote from: Ulfer on Mar 23, 2012, 07:37:00 PM
QuoteLV426 having that many Engineer's temples or ships
And mountains and plains like those in the picture.
Quotewhich also just happenes to orbit a huge ringed gas giant
A kind of planet that is everything but uncommon... And that is beautiful, picturesque, etc. : artistic decision.
I don't want to be "rude", but amongst the people that will watch the movie, there will maybe be 0,01 % of real hardcore fans of Alien. The percentage of people that will find that having taken a gas giant as background for the arrival scene of the Prometheus is a matter of confusion... is very small, sorry.
But that was just part of what i said wasn't it and its besides the point, they could of easily of not had the planet obiting a ringed gas giant to stop confusion. Anyway i'm pretty sure Scott said the film was set in the same system ages ago so its either LV-426 or another orbiting planet.
Quote from: Mastes1 on Mar 23, 2012, 07:44:15 PM
Quote from: Ulfer on Mar 23, 2012, 07:37:00 PM
QuoteLV426 having that many Engineer's temples or ships
And mountains and plains like those in the picture.
Quotewhich also just happenes to orbit a huge ringed gas giant
A kind of planet that is everything but uncommon... And that is beautiful, picturesque, etc. : artistic decision.
I don't want to be "rude", but amongst the people that will watch the movie, there will maybe be 0,01 % of real hardcore fans of Alien. The percentage of people that will find that having taken a gas giant as background for the arrival scene of the Prometheus is a matter of confusion... is very small, sorry.
But that was just part of what i said wasn't it and its besides the point, they could of easily of not had the planet obiting a ringed gas giant to stop confusion. Anyway i'm pretty sure Scott said the film was set in the same system ages ago so its either LV-426 or another orbiting planet.
I'm with the other orbiting planet group. A sister moon to LV-426.
QuoteThe film is set on a similar planet to LV-426 which also just happenes to orbit a huge ringed gas giant - check
It's been pointed out numeorous times that the planets
aren't similar in terms of weather and terrain, at all - CHECK!
Quote from: SM on Mar 23, 2012, 09:11:45 PM
QuoteThe film is set on a similar planet to LV-426 which also just happenes to orbit a huge ringed gas giant - check
It's been pointed out numeorous times that the planets aren't similar in terms of weather and terrain, at all - CHECK!
And the common counterpoint is "Who knows what happens to said planet in the last 11 minutes"[I think it was 11 minutes the trailer editor said he didn't have to pick from for the trailer]. The reverse terraforming idea has been brought up. A terrible planetary catastrophe, endless things. These beings have the power of gods, imagine what other weapons they have beyond the obvious biological ones....
None of us know what planet it will be till a really good round of spoilers/leaks comes out or until the movie hits theatres. I haven't heard a definitive argument for either side yet. That includes the production staff saying "It isn't LV-426" because, well, they have all the reason on earth to lie.
QuoteAnd the common counterpoint is "Who knows what happens to said planet in the last 11 minutes"
Besides the point. From what we've seen it doesn't look anything like LV-426, and people are erroneously claiming it does.
Quote from: SM on Mar 23, 2012, 09:11:45 PM
QuoteThe film is set on a similar planet to LV-426 which also just happenes to orbit a huge ringed gas giant - check
It's been pointed out numeorous times that the planets aren't similar in terms of weather and terrain, at all - CHECK!
No need to be a smartarse and one persons opinion doesn't make it right because its different to someone elses, none of us know for sure until the film is out.
As for the planet looking different, i also addressed that in another thread. I believe the space jockey was terraforming the planet in Prometheus which is why it had weather and a different looking terrain but i think the humans coming disrupted the terraforming because the jockey decides to go after Earth because of what the Prometheus crew do and over the next 30 years or so, the planet loses most of its atmosphere and the planet and the derelict are left to the harshness of space wqhich is why the terrain is different. Also we really don't see much of the terrain in ALIEN/ALIENS so its not correct to say they can't be the same because 'x' thing wasn't in ALIEN/AL8IENS.
QuoteNo need to be a smartarse and one persons opinion doesn't make it right because its different to someone elses, none of us know for sure until the film is out.
So don't blatantly post crap then.
Quote from: SM on Mar 23, 2012, 09:36:37 PM
QuoteNo need to be a smartarse and one persons opinion doesn't make it right because its different to someone elses, none of us know for sure until the film is out.
So don't blatantly post crap then.
How the hell is it crap?, grow uip ffs.
Quote from: SM on Mar 23, 2012, 09:33:29 PM
QuoteAnd the common counterpoint is "Who knows what happens to said planet in the last 11 minutes"
Besides the point. From what we've seen it doesn't look anything like LV-426, and people are erroneously claiming it does.
Yeah see, I am not one of those people. I agree the planet in the background sure makes it look like it is LV-426, or a sister moon. And I am one of the people who have a open mind that some disaster might befall said planet in the last 11 minutes.
We have no idea what planet it is. Both sides taking a firm stance on it are putting the cart before the horse. Any opinion on this film is based on 2 minutes of footage, speculation, lots of fanboy desires, and vague "truths" from people who's job it is to keep as much secret as possible. Even the crew has said if anything gets out the film is ruined. So yeah, no one knows and with the limited information we have, we can at best guess. Nothing more.
Prove to me it won't be LV-426? You can't. The terrain might be different but that can change very quickly over the course of the film. Lots can happen in 11 minutes and "Alien" films are known for something large blowing up at the end of them [including LV-426 at the end of Aliens]. You also can't prove it is LV-426. No one can till the movie hits theatre so everyone probably should stop talking such a strong opinion on the subject because no one but the crew of the movie really knows.
Me? I don't care as long as the story is good. I don't even care if it connects to alien more then it already has. I just want a good scifi flick. The level of pedantic this forum has reached is insane.
QuoteProve to me it won't be LV-426? You can't.
I won't because I've said myself previously that something has to dramatically change between this film and Alien for it to be LV-426, but I've never ruled it out (no matter how unlikely it is).
The point is, it doesn't look anything like LV-426 now. Ring gas giants are common.
I think we agree that if it is LV-426, something big happens between the end of Prometheus and Alien ;) that would modify the planet. By the way, I presume that even if it is an altogether different planet, something big will happen nonetheless that would prevent another expedition or contact with the "temples" and spaceships (else the Company wouldn't have to do what it does in Alien to get specimens), something more than just mere caution.
I do still think that, on several levels, it's risky for it to be LV-426 (I'll take the example of Aliens : it helps the plot that the Derelict isn't found again just before the action begins, which is very convenient, but not very realistic ;)), but they could have found valid reasons for this choice...
Several weeks and we have our answers.
At least, if the fans have not killed themselves before the release, with the proficiency of xenomorphs, because of questions as silly as "is it LV-426 or not" ;D Don't get near the egg of pointless division, dear fans, it holds the facehugger of insanity. Instead, be as kind as space tapirs. ;D
Quote from: Ulfer on Mar 23, 2012, 10:49:36 PM
I think we agree that if it is LV-426, something big happens between the end of Prometheus and Alien ;) that would modify the planet. By the way, I presume that even if it is an altogether different planet, something big will happen nonetheless that would prevent another expedition or contact with the "temples" and spaceships (else the Company wouldn't have to do what it does in Alien to get specimens), something more than just mere caution.
I do still think that, on several levels, it's risky for it to be LV-426 (I'll take the example of Aliens : it helps the plot that the Derelict isn't found again just before the action begins, which is very convenient, but not very realistic ;)), but they could have found valid reasons for this choice...
Several weeks and we have our answers.
The derelict wasn't randomly found in ALIENS, the company told the LV-426 colony to go investigate the site, it explains all this in the 'Specail Edition'.
Quote from: Mastes1 on Mar 23, 2012, 11:01:26 PM
The derelict wasn't randomly found in ALIENS, the company told the LV-426 colony to go investigate the site, it explains all this in the 'Specail Edition'.
More specifically, Burke told them to go look.
QuoteThe derelict wasn't randomly found in ALIENS, the company told the LV-426 colony to go investigate the site, it explains all this in the 'Specail Edition'.
I know. What I want to say is that, before terraforming a planet, there would be reconnaissance missions, and topographical data collected, etc. Ourselves, we've mapped the Moon, Mars, and so on. Of course, I speak with a real-world point of view ;). I don't mind that the movie is that way ;), it's just a little point.
But these elements from
Aliens can themselves point out several reasons why the planet in
Prometheus is not the same as the one in
Alien, but I may have noted that earlier in this topic or elsewhere.
By the way, LV-426 or not, it's quite an interesting planet ! Several "temples", hidden spaceship(s ?), the landscape that opens itself to let it/them go out (when I saw that first in the trailer, I found it a very very good idea)...
I can just hope that what will be revealed will please. At least, that it will be interesting. Up to now, I find it quite novel and refreshing compared with other SF movies.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 23, 2012, 02:31:30 AM
i have a theory about this.
i think that, at the beginning of the movie, the "space jockeys" are a long extinct, ancient race of biological engineers. the ampules contain their genetic code, which is what infects the crew. note that the alien we see walking around noticably varies in size -- i think he's a former member of the prometheus crew.
It would be sad to only get dead SJ's again.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 23, 2012, 02:31:30 AM
well, i think, either way the one on LV-426 is way, way older than this one. and that in this movie, it's really only that one ship they have to worry for the time being -- until the end, which might end on a cliffhanger of "but wait there's more!"
Who knows? I can think of arguments for and against.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 23, 2012, 02:31:30 AM
proportionally, uranus's rings (http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/multimedia/gallery/Uranus_2001-2007.jpg) look very much like saturn's. except that they're on sideways, because the planet's poles are roughly on the ecliptic, as opposed to roughly perpendicular to it.
They don't look as dense to me, but my argument all along has been from a creative angle. I don't believe Ridley would use another ringed planet if it was a different planet, unless there's a really good story reason for it.
Quote from: Mastes1 on Mar 23, 2012, 01:43:33 PM
I have said this numerous times already on here but it doesn't make sense for this to NOT be LV-426 and the orig derelict.
The films set before ALIEN - check, The film is set on a similar planet to LV-426 which also just happenes to orbit a huge ringed gas giant - check, you have space jockeys in this - check, you have the space jockey ship in this - check, you have the space jockey ship CRASH in this - check!.
Its jusyt going to confuse way too many people who haven't been following this film as closely as we have if this isn't about the derelict and LV-426 etc.
The only way i could see this being about a different jockey/ship on a different planet is the sequel effect, obviously FOX will want a sequel if this does well and they wouldn't be able to really do that if this film leads right into ALIEN.
Apart from the sequel factor then i don't see what point it would be to do a film about a complete different space jockey who just happens to crash his ship onto a similar looking planet to LV-426 which just happens to be orbiting a ringed gas giant, come on now guys!.
I agree with you mate. Looking at it from the creative point of view, they wouldn't have gone in this direction for no reason. There's a tie between this world and LV-426. It could be LV-426. it could be LV-425. it could be their homeworld and LV-426 was a moon they were terraforming to be like their homeworld. They picked it because LV-426 is around a ringed gas giant too. Nothing tells us for sure yet.
Quote from: NGR01 on Mar 23, 2012, 02:08:42 PM
I don't remember LV426 having that many Engineer's temples or ships ^^
Spoiler
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But the bad guy's base always has to be blown up at the end of the movie - destroying that big of a base is gonna change the landscape.
It's possible one of the crewmembers reprograms the base so it destroys itself by overgrowing, creating the bone landscape of ALIEN.
Or maybe as it dies and decays, it becomes too weak to support the landscape above, which collapses down.
Too many possibilities.
Or, more likely, it's just not LV426 as we have been told. 8) Occam's Razor.
Quote from: Mastes1 on Mar 23, 2012, 01:43:33 PMI have said this numerous times already on here but it doesn't make sense for this to NOT be LV-426 and the orig derelict.
let's examine these again:
Quote from: Mastes1 on Mar 23, 2012, 01:43:33 PMThe films set before ALIEN - check,
but not necessarily before the ship in
alien becomes derelict.
Quote from: Mastes1 on Mar 23, 2012, 01:43:33 PMThe film is set on a similar planet to LV-426 which also just happenes to orbit a huge ringed gas giant - check,
but, as pointed out numerous times, the planets is
not similar at all. the atmosphere is way thinner, and it has older geological formations -- eroded mountains, plains, formations involving liquid water. LV-426 as a dense, cold atmosphere that probably rains methane like on titan in our own solar system, and is covered in new volcanic formations. it's a planetoid under constant geological stress, with no time to erode.
they both orbit a ringed gas giant, but i don't know how significant that is, considering
literally half of the planets in our own solar system are ringed gas giants.
Quote from: Mastes1 on Mar 23, 2012, 01:43:33 PMyou have space jockeys in this - check, you have the space jockey ship in this - check,
obviously that's a connection. but i don't think it's very supported that it's the
same ship with the
same pilot. indeed this one
crashes, when...
Quote from: Mastes1 on Mar 23, 2012, 01:43:33 PMyou have the space jockey ship CRASH in this - check!.
... the one in
alien is simply derelict with no sign of a crash. in the original script, it was safely landed.
Quote from: Mastes1 on Mar 23, 2012, 01:43:33 PMIts jusyt going to confuse way too many people who haven't been following this film as closely as we have if this isn't about the derelict and LV-426 etc.
it's a direct tie to another movie, and ridley scott has said a number of times stuff about how he doesn't want to do that, and how if this movie had a sequel, it wouldn't be
alien.
Quote from: Ulfer on Mar 23, 2012, 07:37:00 PMQuoteassuming for a second that the one on LV-426 is a separate ship, it could have already been there for centuries, millenia
Yes. Favorite solution.
this was, in fact, the popular theory among fan prior to
prometheus -- that the ship had been there for quite some time. now, we're trying to place the ship as a new arrival within a few years of
alien (or if you read the fake "alien harvest" script, HOURS). it makes no sense -- the pilot is mummified and dessicated (they say "fossilized" but that's not right).
Quote from: fiveways on Mar 23, 2012, 09:21:30 PMAnd the common counterpoint is "Who knows what happens to said planet in the last 11 minutes"[I think it was 11 minutes the trailer editor said he didn't have to pick from for the trailer]. The reverse terraforming idea has been brought up. A terrible planetary catastrophe, endless things. These beings have the power of gods, imagine what other weapons they have beyond the obvious biological ones....
let me put it this way. approximately 65 million years ago, a six-mile-wide asteroid slammed into the earth, hitting about where the yucatan peninsula is today. before it even struck, shockwaves liquified everything within a few thousand miles. tsunamis and earthquakes crossed the globe. as the asteroid struck, it exploded with a force about a thousand times more than every nuclear weapon owned by the US and the soviet union at the height of the cold war. it rained fire and brimstone all over the world, and the surface of the planet burned. the crater kicked so much dust up into the atmosphere that the planet suffered nuclear winter for generations. something like 90% of all life on the face of the planet died.
and yet, our planet looks almost exactly identical to the way it did right before the extinction event. we're missing a few non-avian dinosaurs, but birds? reptiles? amphibians? insects? flowers? all the stuff you'd think would have disappeared because it was too fragile? most of that stuff is still around. out geology is unchanged, and our climate very similar. if you'd go back 65 million years and take some landscape photos, people would think you took them today.
now, if these "space jockeys" can do something to a planet in 11 minutes that makes the K-T event look insignificant... why the hell are they screwing around with wimpy little xenomorphs? these guys have
weapons of planetary destruction. they literally have to
move LV-426's orbit to make it change this drastically.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 23, 2012, 11:13:21 PMIt would be sad to only get dead SJ's again.
i don't think so. i think it adds to their mysterious nature, which i actually don't want to see fully explained. explanations are so boring.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 23, 2012, 11:13:21 PMThey don't look as dense to me, but my argument all along has been from a creative angle. I don't believe Ridley would use another ringed planet if it was a different planet, unless there's a really good story reason for it.
well, i won't deny the creative angle. you never really know.
but as for story reasoning, maybe these guys like gas giants for some reason. gas giants tend to collect rings and lots of small moons, potentially good for close networks of outposts, mining, who knows. gas giants are also extremely common planets -- small, rocky planets like ours seem to be the exception. and scientifically, they're much harder to find. every extra-solar we know about today is a gas giant.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 23, 2012, 11:22:35 PM
Or, more likely, it's just not LV426 as we have been told. 8) Occam's Razor.
it's funny, i had someone on reddit try and use ockham's razor to say it is.
If the original Space Jockey experienced a chest-burster, it might seem that the original derelict Jockey must have put on the Jockey mask after being infected by a face-hugger. Unless face-huggers can operate through Jockey masks, unlike human space helmets which they seem to destroy in the hugging process.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 24, 2012, 07:27:39 AM
they both orbit a ringed gas giant, but i don't know how significant that is, considering literally half of the planets in our own solar system are ringed gas giants.
Two, at best, have rings dense enough to be noted here, and I'm not sold on Uranus yet.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 24, 2012, 07:27:39 AM
... the one in alien is simply derelict with no sign of a crash. in the original script, it was safely landed.
For all we know SJ ships regenerate like Borg ships.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 24, 2012, 07:27:39 AM
and yet, our planet looks almost exactly identical to the way it did right before the extinction event.
What about 50 years after the asteroid strike?
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 24, 2012, 07:27:39 AM
now, if these "space jockeys" can do something to a planet in 11 minutes that makes the K-T event look insignificant... why the hell are they screwing around with wimpy little xenomorphs? these guys have weapons of planetary destruction. they literally have to move LV-426's orbit to make it change this drastically.
The SJ's have a space ship. They can replicate the K-T event. Xenomorphs may be for use when they want a planet (mostly) intact, minus the major life forms. Although I doubt the Xenomorphs could take over a well armed planet. I don't really know what the xenomorphs are good for. Maybe they aren't a weapon and they didn't kill the SJ race.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 24, 2012, 07:27:39 AM
but as for story reasoning, maybe these guys like gas giants for some reason. gas giants tend to collect rings and lots of small moons, potentially good for close networks of outposts, mining, who knows. gas giants are also extremely common planets -- small, rocky planets like ours seem to be the exception. and scientifically, they're much harder to find. every extra-solar we know about today is a gas giant.
I thought we'd been finding rocky planets for the last year. They are harder to find but I wouldn't assume there are less of them.
As for the rest, I floated those ideas earlier so naturally I agree ;)
Wait wait, every extra-solar planet we know about is a gas giant? Since when? We've known of plenty of POTENTIAL hard surfaced planets out there. It's just pretty much impossible to verify because we don't have any probes that are out far enough (close enough to other solar systems, that'll be centuries from now.).
Really, it's pretty much cut and dry this is not LV-426. At this point it just feels like a lot of denial sweeping those who really really really really want it to be. I just hope those of you out there who do, aren't too disappointed when it's not.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 09:01:41 AM
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 24, 2012, 07:27:39 AM
they both orbit a ringed gas giant, but i don't know how significant that is, considering literally half of the planets in our own solar system are ringed gas giants.
Two, at best, have rings dense enough to be noted here, and I'm not sold on Uranus yet.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 24, 2012, 07:27:39 AM
... the one in alien is simply derelict with no sign of a crash. in the original script, it was safely landed.
For all we know SJ ships regenerate like Borg ships.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 24, 2012, 07:27:39 AM
and yet, our planet looks almost exactly identical to the way it did right before the extinction event.
What about 50 years after the asteroid strike?
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 24, 2012, 07:27:39 AM
now, if these "space jockeys" can do something to a planet in 11 minutes that makes the K-T event look insignificant... why the hell are they screwing around with wimpy little xenomorphs? these guys have weapons of planetary destruction. they literally have to move LV-426's orbit to make it change this drastically.
The SJ's have a space ship. They can replicate the K-T event. Xenomorphs may be for use when they want a planet (mostly) intact, minus the major life forms. Although I doubt the Xenomorphs could take over a well armed planet. I don't really know what the xenomorphs are good for. Maybe they aren't a weapon and they didn't kill the SJ race.
Basically you said exactly what i came here to reply too[Like every point]. And exactly to the xenomorphs. I think the xeno is a really watered down version of the biological weapon. In a more pure form it would ransack a population in a matter of hours to days.
Hell we don't even know what the ampules truly do yet beyond mutate people in weird and wonderful ways and cause humans to birth a mini cthulhu.
Didn't one of the early plot overviews that fox put up on IMDB and had taken down say they were resource hunters? totally planetary destruction and resource harvesting really don't go hand in hand.
The ringed gas giant isn't Lv-426, its the planet that it orbits. If I'm not mistaken there were other moons orbiting it as well. The events of Prometheus are most likely on one of those other moons or planetoids.
fiveways - It sounds like the Alien we've seen so far is weaker due to mixing with a human host. The Dogburster Alien isn't worlds different though. Not as different as it sounds like the Prometheus Xenos will be, which is odd considering a dog is more unlike a human than the SJ's may be.
The "biological weapon" angle doesn't make much sense. They can reproduce themselves, but it takes time. It's not as fast as manufacturing a robot. I think you could do more with small swarming robots than the Alien. It doesn't take a 9 foot tall monster to kill a man. A drop of poison on a robot the size of a fly will do. The Alien works great as a natural organism that can kill effectively when you're unprepared for it, but a squad of not-ready Colonial Marines was able to wreak havoc on the LV-426 hive. The LV-426 hive lost its Queen. Imagine if they had one guy in an enclosed, acid proof mech suit. The Colonial Marines have the technology. One guy could stomp bugs all day long.
The idea of the Predators breeding Aliens for sport is pretty good though.
Ballzanya - I tend to think it's most likely another moon in the LV-42X system as well. But - to get to the Alien universe we know, this entire complex has to be destroyed. With Prometheus gone, what do the human survivors have to work with other than the SJ's tools? Maybe they throw an SJ terraforming plant into super-overdrive.
I'm not married to this being LV-426 but it can't be ruled out. I believe we can count on a phenomenal amount of destruction at the end of this movie, unless all this stuff is destroyed in the sequel.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 24, 2012, 09:56:28 AM
Wait wait, every extra-solar planet we know about is a gas giant? Since when? We've known of plenty of POTENTIAL hard surfaced planets out there. It's just pretty much impossible to verify because we don't have any probes that are out far enough (close enough to other solar systems, that'll be centuries from now.).
Really, it's pretty much cut and dry this is not LV-426. At this point it just feels like a lot of denial sweeping those who really really really really want it to be. I just hope those of you out there who do, aren't too disappointed when it's not.
Actually, Prometheus stuff aside, in reality, the first exoplanets discovered have all been gas giants, but not due to a profundity of them over earth sized planets, but because they were easier to detect. Since then, more smaller planets have been discovered in other solar systems. ;D ;D
Quote from: Ulfer on Mar 23, 2012, 11:08:32 PM
I know. What I want to say is that, before terraforming a planet, there would be reconnaissance missions, and topographical data collected, etc. Ourselves, we've mapped the Moon, Mars, and so on. Of course, I speak with a real-world point of view ;). I don't mind that the movie is that way ;), it's just a little point.
Movie tie-ins such as novelization and movie books explained it in fairly believable manner. There are 3 reasons given. one is that the derelict collapsed and partially sank into rock. The novelization gives two more from Russ Jorden when he was asked by his wife why hasnt it been found:
"It's blocked off from colony's detector by these mountains, and you know that surveillance satellites are useless in this kind of atmosphere."
"You couldn't pick up any infrared on this part of the planet: new air coming out of the atmosphere processor is too hot"
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 09:01:41 AMQuote from: arachnophilia on Mar 24, 2012, 07:27:39 AMthey both orbit a ringed gas giant, but i don't know how significant that is, considering literally half of the planets in our own solar system are ringed gas giants.
Two, at best, have rings dense enough to be noted here, and I'm not sold on Uranus yet.
the point is that both gas giants and planetary rings are pretty common.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 09:01:41 AMQuote from: arachnophilia on Mar 24, 2012, 07:27:39 AM... the one in alien is simply derelict with no sign of a crash. in the original script, it was safely landed.
For all we know SJ ships regenerate like Borg ships.
what i mean is, there's
no sign of a crash. the landscape is not affected in any way. there's no debris field, no track carved at impact, nothing. it's just
there. there's no evidence that the derelict crashed
at all, it's simply landed on the planet.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 09:01:41 AMWhat about 50 years after the asteroid strike?
it'd be darker, and colder, but not geologically different, and our atmosphere wouldn't have a significantly different composition (aside from a lot more dust).
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 09:01:41 AMThe SJ's have a space ship. They can replicate the K-T event. Xenomorphs may be for use when they want a planet (mostly) intact, minus the major life forms. Although I doubt the Xenomorphs could take over a well armed planet. I don't really know what the xenomorphs are good for. Maybe they aren't a weapon and they didn't kill the SJ race.
the point isn't replicating the K-T event -- for that you'd just have to nudge a large enough asteroid. that takes thrust (or perhaps creative use of gravity) and some calculus. the point is doing something that drastically changes the geology of a planet, from old weathered formations, to new volcanic formations
all over the planet. basically, they'd have had to have ramped up the tectonic activity on the moon, probably through tidal/gravitational forces -- like moving the moon closer to the gas giant. it's also evidently way colder on LV-426, which indicates that the gas giant itself is further away from its star, or the star is cooler.
pushing an asteroid isn't that hard. pushing the moon is a bigger trick. and pushing saturn's a much bigger trick. ...and cooling off the sun?
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 09:01:41 AMI thought we'd been finding rocky planets for the last year. They are harder to find but I wouldn't assume there are less of them.
it's hard to say, of course, but there's much more gas in the universe than there is rock.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 24, 2012, 09:56:28 AMWait wait, every extra-solar planet we know about is a gas giant? Since when? We've known of plenty of POTENTIAL hard surfaced planets out there. It's just pretty much impossible to verify because we don't have any probes that are out far enough (close enough to other solar systems, that'll be centuries from now.).
i might not be up to date on this. as far as i was aware, the only real way to detect to planets was either wobbling of the star (indirect) or observation of something blocking said star (more direct). either way, the planet has to be massive, and that means gas giant.
Quote from: fiveways on Mar 24, 2012, 11:45:36 AMBasically you said exactly what i came here to reply too[Like every point]. And exactly to the xenomorphs. I think the xeno is a really watered down version of the biological weapon. In a more pure form it would ransack a population in a matter of hours to days.
Hell we don't even know what the ampules truly do yet beyond mutate people in weird and wonderful ways and cause humans to birth a mini cthulhu.
Didn't one of the early plot overviews that fox put up on IMDB and had taken down say they were resource hunters? totally planetary destruction and resource harvesting really don't go hand in hand.
the original concept was that the alien only lived about 12 hours. speculation was that it was a weapon designed to burn through a population and leave the resources intact.
Quote from: Ballzanya on Mar 24, 2012, 09:33:46 PMThe ringed gas giant isn't Lv-426, its the planet that it orbits. If I'm not mistaken there were other moons orbiting it as well. The events of Prometheus are most likely on one of those other moons or planetoids.
there are at least three moons of that gas giant, including LV-426. there's some confusion here because the same plate used for the approach of the nostromo is used again for the sky from LV-426. i seriously doubt this movie takes place on one of the other moons, either.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 10:18:19 PM
fiveways - It sounds like the Alien we've seen so far is weaker due to mixing with a human host. The Dogburster Alien isn't worlds different though. Not as different as it sounds like the Prometheus Xenos will be, which is odd considering a dog is more unlike a human than the SJ's may be.
you're forgetting that the alien has a lot in common with the pilot, too.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 10:18:19 PMThe "biological weapon" angle doesn't make much sense. They can reproduce themselves, but it takes time.
the entire plot of
alien takes place within 12 hours. gestation is fast.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 10:18:19 PMIt's not as fast as manufacturing a robot. I think you could do more with small swarming robots than the Alien.
the derelict is biological. the engineers are
biological engineers. they don't have mechanical technology, they have biomechanical technology. everything is grown.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 10:18:19 PMIt doesn't take a 9 foot tall monster to kill a man. A drop of poison on a robot the size of a fly will do. The Alien works great as a natural organism that can kill effectively when you're unprepared for it, but a squad of not-ready Colonial Marines was able to wreak havoc on the LV-426 hive. The LV-426 hive lost its Queen. Imagine if they had one guy in an enclosed, acid proof mech suit. The Colonial Marines have the technology. One guy could stomp bugs all day long.
they're not there to kill. they're there to replace and die. they use the host as raw materials, and their genetic code as a shortcut for adapting to the environment, and live just long enough to spread like a virus. theoretically, that adaptation should include
intelligence too. and copying humans, they have opposable thumbs. there's really no reason they couldn't pick up and use human technology, like guns.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 10:18:19 PMThe idea of the Predators breeding Aliens for sport is pretty good though.
i always thought that cheapened the whole idea.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Mar 25, 2012, 12:04:07 AM
one is that the derelict collapsed and partially sank into rock.
It's stable until Alien, then it collapses? How did the colonists get the eggs?
Quote from: StrangeShape on Mar 25, 2012, 12:04:07 AM
"It's blocked off from colony's detector by these mountains, and you know that surveillance satellites are useless in this kind of atmosphere."
I'll buy that you can't see the Derelict from the colony, but the planet would have been mapped and studied before picking a site for the colony. They found a site for the colony, some kind of surveillance must have worked.
I believe we've been successful at mapping planets with more challenging atmospheres in our own solar system (Venus, Titan) with our more primitive technology. Even the bottom of the oceans are mapped IIRC.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Mar 25, 2012, 12:04:07 AM
"You couldn't pick up any infrared on this part of the planet: new air coming out of the atmosphere processor is too hot"[/i]
I'm sure you'd use radar instead of infra-red.
Was the terraforming plant functional? Apparently no one noticed a change in atmosphere between Alien and Aliens.
If the air coming out of it was that hot wouldn't we be seeing heat effects when the drop ship touched down?
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 25, 2012, 05:55:40 AMthe point is that both gas giants and planetary rings are pretty common.
I can see we're just going to go around and around on this.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 25, 2012, 05:55:40 AM
what i mean is, there's no sign of a crash. the landscape is not affected in any way. there's no debris field, no track carved at impact, nothing. it's just there. there's no evidence that the derelict crashed at all, it's simply landed on the planet.
We haven't seen enough of the landing site to come to that conclusion. In the Prometheus trailer, it looks like the Derelict crashed in one spot and rolled. Could have happened in the area in "front" (not the side with the booms sticking out) of the Derelict in Alien.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 25, 2012, 05:55:40 AM
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 24, 2012, 09:01:41 AMWhat about 50 years after the asteroid strike?
it'd be darker, and colder, but not geologically different, and our atmosphere wouldn't have a significantly different composition (aside from a lot more dust).
Yes, darker, less visibility - like LV-426.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 25, 2012, 05:55:40 AM
the point is doing something that drastically changes the geology of a planet, from old weathered formations, to new volcanic formations all over the planet.
Did we ever see the entirety of LV-426? It's covered in clouds, I don't think we ever get a good look at the entire planetary surface. Just a small local area. we can't conclude the entire planet is an evenly sized rubble field.
Quote from: arachnophilia on Mar 25, 2012, 05:55:40 AM
...and cooling off the sun?
We're close to being able to build a solar shield now. It's being discussed as a way to deal with global warming. IIRC the European Union outright banned research on solar shields for fear it could actually be made.
Quote
I'll buy that you can't see the Derelict from the colony, but the planet would have been mapped and studied before picking a site for the colony. They found a site for the colony, some kind of surveillance must have worked.
I believe we've been successful at mapping planets with more challenging atmospheres in our own solar system (Venus, Titan) with our more primitive technology. Even the bottom of the oceans are mapped IIRC.
Mapped and studied, but not explored. please don't compare earth.
If Prometheus is rammed into the derelict ship thing then there should be evidence of the ship on LV-426 not only a crashed derelict.
And then in Alien they should know about it so if not then Ridley isnt treating Alien as part of the Prometheus universe or as you might call it cannon?
But Ridley can also play it like this that the company had to knew that the Prometheus was on LV-426 also but didnt inform the crew of the Nostromo and therefor giving a nodd to Alien that they were walking in a trap from the beginning and Ash knew it all along.
Therefor making the company also a very evil company.
But just speculation i really dont think those jockey guys would crash a lot of derelicts around in the galaxy.
Maybe LV-426 was bigger and it broke in half by somekind of explosion etc.
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 25, 2012, 06:52:21 AM
It's stable until Alien, then it collapses?
After Alien 57 years passed, and it that time the atmosphere was already chaning, so the weather and tectonic movements were going apeshit. The lava spills, weather and shakes embedded it in the rock and caused it to break and collapse
Quote
How did the colonists get the eggs?
Well, they entered the derelict and found the cave
QuoteQuote from: StrangeShape on Mar 25, 2012, 12:04:07 AM
"It's blocked off from colony's detector by these mountains, and you know that surveillance satellites are useless in this kind of atmosphere."
I'll buy that you can't see the Derelict from the colony, but the planet would have been mapped and studied before picking a site for the colony. They found a site for the colony, some kind of surveillance must have worked.
And they did. But as explained, there was no heat signature from the derelict and it was basically recognized as part of the rock formations
Youll never gonna have a perfect explanation in a fiction especially when you keep diggin into it and look at semantics, but as I said, its fairly believable and good explanation
Quotethe entire plot of alien takes place within 12 hours. gestation is fast.
Fast yes, but the film takes longer than just 12 hours.
Quote from: SM on Mar 26, 2012, 12:56:11 AM
Quotethe entire plot of alien takes place within 12 hours. gestation is fast.
Fast yes, but the film takes longer than just 12 hours.
From Aliens- Ripley to the company - "...cause just one of those things managed to wipe out my entire crew in less than 24 hours." So it could be 12 hours but really who's worried what time it is when being hunted by extra terrestial parasites in space.
Kane was out for around 16 hours. Chuck on the time before they land, then land, then walk to the Derelict, then the time after the Alien pops out - which is around 5 hours, give or take.
Do they say 16 hours in Alien?
"...for she shall come riding a flaming chariot. Ever she shall be the instrument of the return of the Beast, and also its destruction. The Master of two worlds.
And ye shall know her by her number, for it is the number of those who escaped the Great Flood to revive the world, the number of Noah, the number of the resurrected. Her number shall be eight."
The Revelation of St Morse. 23:80-C
This is cool, where did you find it? It sounds like Gnostic Apocrypha.
Made it up.
***********
QuoteDo they say 16 hours in Alien?
No, but it's a fairly accurate ballpark figure based on the events and times in the film.
Not. LV-426.
I think i'm just going to tattoo it to my forehead, so everyone knows... Oh wait, that would just tell them that i'm not LV-426... And most people won't have a clue what that means. ::)
Quote from: StrangeShape on Mar 25, 2012, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: jeremy_ray on Mar 25, 2012, 06:52:21 AM
How did the colonists get the eggs?
Well, they entered the derelict and found the cave
The collapsed derelict that was indistinguishable from rock formations?
Quote from: StrangeShape on Mar 25, 2012, 04:33:34 PM
Youll never gonna have a perfect explanation in a fiction especially when you keep diggin into it and look at semantics, but as I said, its fairly believable and good explanation
We're just having a good time.
At the end of the day it's a monster movie, not a spaceship movie, and that's the explanation for why the Derelict isn't important.
But a nerd has to get his nerd on.
------------
Watched the crash shots a couple more times - it looks a lot like Prometheus actually crashes into the tip of one of the Derelict's arm, not the center of the "U." And it's the arm with the fin we see rotated downwards in Alien.
Maybe someone can get a screen cap?
There's another shot with a big dust storm flowing in from behind Prometheus, while she's on the ground. Obviously this isn't related to the Derelict crash.
In another thread there's a guy who claims to see what looks like the Prometheus valley in a wide angle shot of the Alien Derelict.
Could be LV-426 and the same Derelict after all?