(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg547%2F5160%2Fubyv.png&hash=25837b41acbc47397defe495ef6ee47f22f9cbcf)
Hardcover - 160 pages + 20 inserts - $50.00
This was previewed at NYCC, looks like nobody picked up on it.
Sales sheet:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg41%2F3092%2Ff1vo.jpg&hash=c248569d77380cb1428b579c907eb84fd5bf01c1)
Aw man someone's gonna have fun reading through it and seeing how much was from the Anchorpoint Essays.
Quote from: Cvalda on Nov 23, 2013, 05:33:45 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg547%2F5160%2Fubyv.png&hash=25837b41acbc47397defe495ef6ee47f22f9cbcf)
Hardcover - 160 pages + 20 inserts - $50.00
This was previewed at NYCC, looks like nobody picked up on it.
Sales sheet:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg41%2F3092%2Ff1vo.jpg&hash=c248569d77380cb1428b579c907eb84fd5bf01c1)
:o
Well that looks fantastic.
Holy Shit!! Me want!!! I hope this includes a lot of the EU material; an encyclopedia of that would be nice and S.D. Perry has done a LOT for the Dark Horse novelizations, it would be a shame if it only contained movie-related memorabilia. Btw, Cvalda, you should send Corporal Hicks a PM and get this posted in the News Feed, you may even get your name printed as the person who found this.
Nice! I'll definitely be sure to pick this up.
Woot!
Stephani is one of my favorite voices of the novelizations. So I'll find a way to pick this up.
At last I can talk about this.
Danelle contacted me months ago about it and said she was going to ship me a copy when it comes out next year, as she's apparently used a lot of the Timeline website info.
That is cool.
SM is bigtime!
Quote from: SM on Nov 23, 2013, 09:47:19 PM
At last I can talk about this.
Danelle contacted me months ago about it and said she was going to ship me a copy when it comes out next year, as she's apparently used a lot of the Timeline website info.
Nice! Anything more you can say about the book?
This looks awesome! Is it available to buy yet?
QuoteAw man someone's gonna have fun reading through it and seeing how much was from the Anchorpoint Essays.
I'd be disappointed if it wasn't.
Mike Worral's Alien 3 concept art on the cover. Noice.
Me want. ;D
Do we have any sort of ETA or release date for this? The sales sheet doesn't seem to say anything.
I checked amazon.com... nothing.
I liked Stephani's work on Prey which she co-authored with her father Steve
Wasn't so fond of War which she wrote by herself
She also worked on Female War with her dad, Berserker and Labyrinth be herself. She's much better at banter between characters than her dad is.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 05, 2013, 04:17:10 PM
She also worked on Female War with her dad, Berserker and Labyrinth be herself. She's much better at banter between characters than her dad is.
She also did 'Aliens: Criminal Enterprise' more recently. It's not the best Aliens novel out there, but I still dug it.
I also happened to like it more than her father's solo Predator outing at around the same time.
I actually liked that Predator novel as good as any I've read of the standalones.
Still think AvP Prey is the best Predator related material out there concerning the EU. I know not everybody likes the space samurai idea but I thought it was cool and probably read Prey two dozen times crowing up.
Did you read 'Predator: South China Sea'? It's pretty kickass and does a good job of making both the humans AND Predator into interesting characters.
Naw, I like the Preds but have always been a much bigger fan of the Alien series. I think I have one or two predator omnibuses I have never looked at.
South China Sea is a novel, it's not a comic series. If you liked Steve Perry's solo Predator novel, I'd definitely recommend checking out South China Sea. It's hands-down my favorite Predator novel.
I know its a novel I remember Hicks praise for it when it came out.
I'm just saying that my pred collection is not like my Alien collection concerning the EU. I probably have 95% of the Alien EU, and about fifty percent of the pred EU. Just doesn't interest me as much. But if I see Predator South China Sea I might pick it up.
I was going to offer to buy you a copy off Amazon because used books tend to be dirt-cheap, but apparently it's out of print and prices have subsequently skyrocketed (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1595821406/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1386390204&sr=8-1&keywords=predator+south+china+sea&condition=used).
I'm ninja, I'll find it somewhere.
Spotted one on eBay for about original retail price (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Predator-South-China-Sea-/181274531913?pt=US_Childrens_Books&hash=item2a34cdd849), although it's not in new condition.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 06, 2013, 03:51:52 AMI know not everybody likes the space samurai idea but I thought it was cool and probably read Prey two dozen times crowing up.
The main predator was a space samurai in the noble savage vein. His students were more like space assholes.
Dachande was more the exception than the standard. Topknot and others were also assholes.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 10, 2013, 03:49:09 AM
Dachande was more the exception than the standard. Topknot and others were also assholes.
Yes...that's why it's false to claim that
Prey makes out the whole predator race to be a bunch of noble savages
Dachande has a strong sense of honour, but he's rare. Most predators don't give a sh*t about honour when they can get away with slaughtering whatever they want
You know I never actually looked at 'Prey' that way, and you bring up a REALLY good point.
Going by other EU sources I'd like to believe that they have SOME standards, it just varies from individual to individual or between tribes or whatever.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 10, 2013, 01:18:21 PM
You know I never actually looked at 'Prey' that way, and you bring up a REALLY good point. Going by other EU sources I'd like to believe that they have SOME standards, it just varies from individual to individual or between tribes or whatever.
I'd go so far as to say that it's glaringly obvious if one actually pays attention to how the other predators behave in Prey.
Broken Tusk's students attack a human family. They kill the father, the unarmed mother, and the family's dog. They then try to kill the kid as he escapes on the hover bike. They're clearly not a bunch of "honourable" space samurai. In all likelihood, asshole students remain assholes when they become Blooded. Other predators probably view Broken Tusk as the uptight, "by the book" type.
Well its not like samurai were always noble either. They were such douches when they visited Okinawa that a whole martial art was developed to disarm them from their samurai swords. (precursor to karate)
Perception is reality.
We perceive samurai as strict code followers that do what they have to in an honorable fashion. Not people that slaughtered unarmed innocents on Okinawa (and other places).
Yeah, the point being that trying to classify the entire race as "honorable" (or saying that's how they "should" be) kind of misses one of the fundamental parts of the Predator creature concept: their individuality. About all we can say about them is "their culture puts a lot of relevance on hunting", but what that actually means varies from tribe to tribe and even individual to individual.
Yes, that's why I find it silly when people say "Steve Perry turned the predators into honourable space samurai"
Only one predator could be considered "honourable". The rest were complete douchebags (by human standards). It makes me wonder whether people who claim to dislike Prey for this reason have actually read the book
Perry made Predators honourable space samurai not by portraying each one that way, but by making the ones who don't out to be dicks (even by Predator standards). Broken Tusk is the protagonist, he's presented as the ideal Predator in the story, not them. The audience is left seeing him as how a Predator ought to act because he's the freaking good guy.
I was gonna say.
Still doesn't really bother me. I think mainly because I care about the Preds less.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 11, 2013, 06:32:16 AMPerry made Predators honourable space samurai not by portraying each one that way, but by making the ones who don't out to be dicks (even by Predator standards).
We don't know that. Maybe they are dicks when measured against the ideal, but it seems that the majority of predators are dicks. Would you still be considered a dick if, say, 90% of the population behaves like you?
QuoteBroken Tusk is the protagonist, he's presented as the ideal Predator in the story, not them.
Depends on who's judging him. He probably thinks of himself as the ideal hunter/warrior. His students might view him as a pompous, uptight, "do everything by the rules" stiff
QuoteThe audience is left seeing him as how a Predator ought to act because he's the freaking good guy.
But all the other predators in Prey aren't like that.
The predators are only a race of noble space samurai if a large majority of them behave like Broken Tusk. If predator society officially places great value on being honourable and fair but in practice, very few predators actually behave that way, then the predators are not a race of noble space samurai. They are a race of space hypocrites.
Whether 90% of the Predator population are arseholes, whether Broken Tusk is considered an uptight fogey by Predator society, and whether all the other Predators in the book are different doesn't really matter.
I know that sounds silly, but that's how stories work. The Aliens in Aliens don't actually act like wholly mindless cannon fodder, either, but that's the perception so many people are left with, so that's what people make them. Perry gave us this noble, honourable Predator (or at least, fleshed him out) and he's the Predator character the reader connects with and sees through. It doesn't matter if all of the others are tools: Broken Tusk doesn't like them, so we don't like them. That's the popular image that comes out of reading the book.
Whether it's entirely accurate isn't particularly relevant. Broken Tusk is the "good" Predator, so all "good" Predators -- even the villainous ones -- ought to act like Broken Tusk.
That's how Perry made Predator honourable space samurai. It's the image that sticks.
(EDIT: I'm not actually saying I agree, I'm just explaining how it's entirely justified to say Perry changed the popular perception of the Predator).
Then we're not really disagreeing
You can't blame Perry if readers misinterpret his work. By "turn the predators into space samurai", I mean "potray the predators as a race of fair, noble, honourable space samurai". Steve Perry didn't do that.
What Steve Perry did was write a novel susceptible to misinterpretation. Similarly, Cameron's Aliens is susceptible to misinterpretation. The aliens aren't mindless cannon fodder. They might not be as smart as intelligent human beings but they show above-animal intelligence on several occasions (cutting the power, crawling through the ventilation shafts). It's highly debatable whether Kane's son is smarter than the xenomorphs in Aliens.
But didn't Perry base his Predator on what existed from Randy Stradley?
Perry took it much further. The comic pretty much left it within the sporting/unsporting "rule" of the original movie.
Oh right.
Been a long while since I read either the comic or book.
Quote from: happypred on Dec 11, 2013, 10:35:54 AM
Then we're not really disagreeing
You can't blame Perry if readers misinterpret his work. By "turn the predators into space samurai", I mean "potray the predators as a race of fair, noble, honourable space samurai". Steve Perry didn't do that.
What Steve Perry did was write a novel susceptible to misinterpretation. Similarly, Cameron's Aliens is susceptible to misinterpretation. The aliens aren't mindless cannon fodder. They might not be as smart as intelligent human beings but they show above-animal intelligence on several occasions (cutting the power, crawling through the ventilation shafts). It's highly debatable whether Kane's son is smarter than the xenomorphs in Aliens.
This is a really good point, especially in light of how often 'Aliens' gets misinterpreted as the Aliens being mindless cannon-fodder. I mean yeah I can see where people could get that impression about the Aliens from that movie, but there's a lot of other things going on in that movie that run counter to it that people seemingly forget.
I remember discussions on this very forum where Steve Perry himself defended portraying the Aliens as mindless cannon-fodder in his books. :P
Makes me wonder if anyone ever brought up the very point with him that you're bringing up about Predators not all universally being "honorable space-samurai".
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 06, 2013, 04:12:40 AM
Did you read 'Predator: South China Sea'? It's pretty kickass and does a good job of making both the humans AND Predator into interesting characters.
Brilliant book. Thoroughly enjoyed SCS. I know I'm a bit late but I'll get this on the front page this evening.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 13, 2013, 04:15:37 AM
This is a really good point, especially in light of how often 'Aliens' gets misinterpreted as the Aliens being mindless cannon-fodder. I mean yeah I can see where people could get that impression about the Aliens from that movie, but there's a lot of other things going on in that movie that run counter to it that people seemingly forget.
I remember discussions on this very forum where Steve Perry himself defended portraying the Aliens as mindless cannon-fodder in his books. :P
Makes me wonder if anyone ever brought up the very point with him that you're bringing up about Predators not all universally being "honorable space-samurai".
Probably didn't help when Jim Cameron himself at least once described the alien "as a mindless, chaotic life urge that's out of control".
Can someone tell me if I got this right - is this Weyland Yutani Report thing like a sort of "encyclopedia" regarding the alien?
Also not to nitpick but someone should fix the news article's "Reports" to "Report."
$50 for a book. :D A book. :D Paper and cardboard.
Just when you think people on this site can't say anything dumber ...
I suppose you could have it on display when you take eager young Alien fans to your secret dungeon..
Or I could read it.
Or you could torrent it, then read it.
Or I could not commit a crime and have a nicely bound book with pretty pictures.
AVPGalaxy is giving these guys free advertising. It's the least they can do. 8)
Great, thanks for clearing up my confusion guys. (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F--h4eLCX9klE%2FUZHjEBYfY2I%2FAAAAAAAADoo%2FW5bcUQjtXls%2Fs1600%2Fthumb-up-facebook-emoticon-like-symbol.png&hash=7675f3e43cfc9c589e858e303da8dd6c7cf18c12)
Encyclopaedia :laugh: . Your question is redundant. That's for wikis or nerds like SiL & SM, who think they know everything. :)
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Dec 13, 2013, 11:45:38 PM
Great, thanks for clearing up my confusion guys. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--h4eLCX9klE/UZHjEBYfY2I/AAAAAAAADoo/W5bcUQjtXls/s1600/thumb-up-facebook-emoticon-like-symbol.png
We don't know. SM might, because she picked out some stuff from his site. I'm guessing it'll be in the style of the Anchorpoint Essays or the Colonial Marines Technical Manual.
Thanks.
Quote from: Powerloader on Dec 13, 2013, 11:55:06 PM
Encyclopaedia :laugh: . Your question is redundant. That's for wikis or nerds like SiL & SM, who think they know everything. :)
I'm not really sure what you mean or are trying to say, but I had to ask because everyone seemed to be talking about Steve Perry's comic book writing.
And please, enough of the smartass act, you're wasting finger energy neither pissing off nor impressing anyone here.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Dec 14, 2013, 12:07:57 AM
Thanks.
Quote from: Powerloader on Dec 13, 2013, 11:55:06 PM
Encyclopaedia :laugh: . Your question is redundant. That's for wikis or nerds like SiL & SM, who think they know everything. :)
I'm not really sure what you mean or are trying to say, but I had to ask because everyone seemed to be talking about Steve Perry's comic book writing.
And please, enough of the smartass act, you're wasting finger energy neither pissing off nor impressing anyone here.
Enough with the deconstruction act, you're wasting blah blah blah and blah.. :)
Go away.
You go away.
How about we all adhere to the rules and be respectful towards fellow members?
I'll find a way to budget this in. Should be a fun read like Colonial Marines Tech Manual. Although that got very detailed at times and got rather dull to me but I liked it.
May have to pick this up at some point, I'll keep an eye out for this for sure.
I like it that they excluded AVP from this book ;D ...Kind of weird though considering that Steve Perry is the author (why him? He sees Aliens as space-bug rottweiler zombies meant for target practice). I have really mixed feelings about this book.
His daughter's writing it, not him.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 14, 2013, 09:57:46 PM
His daughter's writing it, not him.
Much better :)
Even though
Berserker is pretty crappy.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 14, 2013, 09:47:20 PM
I like it that they excluded AVP from this book ;D
I must have missed where they said that.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 14, 2013, 11:32:47 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 14, 2013, 10:20:55 PM
Quote from: SiL on Dec 14, 2013, 09:57:46 PM
His daughter's writing it, not him.
Much better :)
Even though Berserker is pretty crappy.
Negatron!
Sorry but it is. It's funny, part hilarious and sometimes quite entertaining, but it is utterly gung ho & stupid, and the Xenos are exactly the super weak cannon fodder I don't like.
I don't disagree with the Aliens being overpowered, but Perry actually made the characters interesting. A far cry from the comics.
Not saying they are deep, just that they are believable. Barracks behavior from combat arms soldiers that want to go kill stuff sounds remarkably similar.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 14, 2013, 11:47:02 PM
I don't disagree with the Aliens being overpowered, but Perry actually made the characters interesting. A far cry from the comics.
You mean
underpowered, right?
QuoteNot saying they are deep, just that they are believable. Barracks behavior from combat arms soldiers that want to go kill stuff sounds remarkably similar.
Meh... Maybe. I just have really low tolerance with that stuff
I like Berserker. One of my favourites of the novels.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Dec 14, 2013, 11:56:53 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 14, 2013, 11:47:02 PM
I don't disagree with the Aliens being overpowered, but Perry actually made the characters interesting. A far cry from the comics.
You mean underpowered, right?
QuoteNot saying they are deep, just that they are believable. Barracks behavior from combat arms soldiers that want to go kill stuff sounds remarkably similar.
Meh... Maybe. I just have really low tolerance with that stuff
I did mean underpowered. But Berserker happens at a time in the universe when humanity has been killing the Aliens for years. It should be easier fighting that kind of enemy (one that never adjust strategies and has the same capabilities) over time.
Bravado is real. Maybe in some rear echelon support units it wouldn't be as bad but it is unbelievable how much conventional combat arms units talk shit. We talk shit about each other, about each others mommas, about each others sisters (daughters are off limits), about other combat arms units (infantry is incapable of maneuvering without artillery support-which infantry claims to never use). I suppose being put in position where you could potentially die every time a truck pulls up to your checkpoint brings out the hyper male in all of us.
Well who is to say they never change tactics? In Aliens they cut the power and did learn to avoid sentry turrets... although after many died. They really need to get back to the roots of these creatures being adaptive. Less zombie fodder like others have said.
There is only so many ways an enemy that has to physically touch you to kill you can get to you. Thus their tactics are limited.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 16, 2013, 06:16:32 AM
There is only so many ways an enemy that has to physically touch you to kill you can get to you. Thus their tactics are limited.
In other words, aliens don't have the benefit of technology and human intelligence
They're like Jurassic Park raptors but deadlier (acid blood, armoured exoskeleton, bladed tail)
Indeed. You know at the very least the Alien is going to have to get close to you to do damage.
So YOU can modify YOUR tactics in dealing with them (I'd put an infantry unit out in the open and just use close air support all day on such a threat), but eventually whatever tactics they use to get close you know they are a limited opponent.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 16, 2013, 08:20:54 PM
Indeed. You know at the very least the Alien is going to have to get close to you to do damage.
So YOU can modify YOUR tactics in dealing with them (I'd put an infantry unit out in the open and just use close air support all day on such a threat), but eventually whatever tactics they use to get close you know they are a limited opponent.
I like the idea of Acid-Proof armor suits like those in Aliens: Genocide.
I wonder how much material they'll pull from the CM Tech Manual...
Whats bad is that we have already pretty much surpassed the Colonial Marines in terms of on the ground technology. Sure they have stealth tanks and what have you but in other areas we have already surpassed them.
That far in the future they are probably rocking combat suits powered by exoskeletons and have HUDs that show troop and enemy movements and let them see in different visual spectrums, etc.
That landwarrior project that was almost but no quite cancelled allows a unit to see a map in their eyepiece and is updated as the troops clear buildings within the map. That tech will be perfected in the future. Likewise they are already working on exoskeletons for supply purposes (cough bullshit cough) to help lessen the burden on the trooper.
If you look at some of the stuff DARPA is working on it is downright crazy. Soldiers with telekinetic powers, the ability to regenerate lost limbs, don't need sleep etc.
One day we might be biomechanical hardasses ourselves.
Anyone have any idea if this book will be released in the UK?
Same time it's released everywhere else I'd imagine.
;D
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 16, 2013, 10:00:28 PM
If you look at some of the stuff DARPA is working on it is downright crazy. Soldiers with telekinetic powers, the ability to regenerate lost limbs, don't need sleep etc.
I think you're going to have to elaborate on this one.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/05/pentagon-preps-soldier-telepathy-push/ (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/05/pentagon-preps-soldier-telepathy-push/)
I read an article somewhere that had all the rest of that stuff in there but I can't find it anymore. Darpa DOES have the mad scientist wing, whether its every successful or not.....
Truthfully I think that humanity will be modified through cybernetics and technology more than it will be bioengineered simply because we've already shown that capacity with prosthetics reacting to brain waves, exoskeletons in development, land warrior etc. I also don't think people will voluntarily be modified by something they can't "undo". I can't imagine a surgery or a technique that makes you psychic is somehow reversible.
But who knows. We'll find out soon enough. If we don't kill each other off the next thirty years are so should be exciting times.
The only way we might die off is if we turn into hipsters who cue up for the latest gadget and stampede each other when the doors open. :)
I think if we can make it into space and get some returns from our exploration the world will be more peaceful. People still fighting over resources when resources beyond the planet are infinite. Somebody just has to take that first step.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 18, 2013, 10:48:28 PMPeople still fighting over resources when resources beyond the planet are infinite.
That's simplifying it a little... You still have to get to those resources, harvest them, process them, and somehow get them back to Earth. Far quicker easier to just knock seven shades of shit out of each other down here...
I know. Obviously huge resource are going to have to be spent. But eventually people will be fighting for scraps with no chance of getting off planet.
Better to work on the issue NOW while there is still a chance for self correction. Its going to be a sad day when we have to rely on corporations for sustainable energy as they are the only ones with any plans for offworld travel at the moment.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 19, 2013, 07:06:53 PM
I know. Obviously huge resource are going to have to be spent. But eventually people will be fighting for scraps with no chance of getting off planet.
Better to work on the issue NOW while there is still a chance for self correction. Its going to be a sad day when we have to rely on corporations for sustainable energy as they are the only ones with any plans for offworld travel at the moment.
The problem I see, besides global economic turmoil and civil unrest, is that once you start having corporations begin space exploration, you run the risk of an Elysium-style reality.
The biggest problem behind the idea of living in/exploring/exploiting space is the immense expense it is to fund the technology and engineer Star Trek /Star Wars/ Mass Effect vehicles capable of reducing space travel time, which is another problem all in itself. As much fun as it is to sci-fi folks like myself, I honestly do not see mankind seriously investing itself in space when there's still just as many untapped resources and mysteries to solve here on earth. Just throwing in my 2 cents.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2Fef%2Fef4ecda158ef1e79079546811ace2017bd04708149857b1cc6ff5d3712c11d5f.jpg&hash=304b89f8e53d3e6824c12e4cdbdbfd244ce7f039)
Quote from: SM on Dec 20, 2013, 06:08:56 AM
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ef/ef4ecda158ef1e79079546811ace2017bd04708149857b1cc6ff5d3712c11d5f.jpg
Because the government
Insight Editions has announced their plans for SDCC, and we'll be getting a look at the W-Y Report, or at least the cover.
QuoteIn addition, Insight will also be offering a first look to Comic-Con attendees of the sculpted cover for the upcoming Alien: The Weyland-Yutani Report: Collectors' Edition, and the Game of Thrones Astrolabe.
http://sdccblog.com/2014/06/insight-editions-announces-sdcc-2014-plans/ (http://sdccblog.com/2014/06/insight-editions-announces-sdcc-2014-plans/)
Also, even though it's a bit hard to find, the Insight Editions site has a release date of September 2014 for the book.
http://focus.insighteditions.com/foreign_rights_filmtelevision#.U7NzQ4m9Kc0 (http://focus.insighteditions.com/foreign_rights_filmtelevision#.U7NzQ4m9Kc0)
We've already seen the cover. :-\
I imagine that the "Collectors' Edition" might have a different cover.
The big question is, will it be signed by SM?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 02, 2014, 09:29:35 AM
We've already seen the cover. :-\
It's definitely disappointing to hear we probably won't be getting an inside look. The Insight Editions site has a very small pic of what I assume is the Collector's Edition cover, featuring the chair suit Engineer from Priometheus.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffocus.insighteditions.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F01%2FALIEN_FRNKFRT_090513-1-150x150.png&hash=4ce3ccef0359bf10aa8c8eb2d5a5f18d7578eed1)
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 02, 2014, 04:40:22 PM
http://focus.insighteditions.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ALIEN_FRNKFRT_090513-1-150x150.png
Space Tapir lives.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jul 02, 2014, 02:17:35 PM
I imagine that the "Collectors' Edition" might have a different cover.
The big question is, will it be signed by SM?
If you'd want to instantly devalue it, sure.
On the contrary, I honestly think it would increase the value. Assuming AVP Galaxy gets a few complementary copies to give away to forum members (as they often do) would you consider signing them? If shipping costs between the UK and Aus isn't too high of course.
You're very kind, but I think the shipping would make it a teensy bit prohibitive.
To say nothing of the fact that I didn't write the book.
Contribution via website info is still a contribution. But yeah, you're probably right about the shipping costs.
looks amazing
This book is supposed to have detailed information on the alien life cycle. Does anyone know if it's going to have information on egg morphing, the alien castes from Colonial Marines or an explanation of the smooth-head/ridge-head variations?
It would be worth buying for any one of those things.
QuoteDoes anyone know if it's going to have information on egg morphing, the alien castes from Colonial Marines or an explanation of the smooth-head/ridge-head variations?
Yes, I do know.
lol
This book is really just gamegossip avpforums the abbreviated version if it has all that in there.
not sure if should cancel preorder
Apropos of what?
I hope the last section of this book is about Wolf and how he's the aliens' daddy
LOL, happypred.
Looking forward for that book....and cover.
http://www.insightcollectibles.com/ (http://www.insightcollectibles.com/)
$325?
That's just for that fancy edition.
Do we know when this book is coming out?
http://focus.insighteditions.com/foreign_rights_filmtelevision#.U9TiW1N0Z8E (http://focus.insighteditions.com/foreign_rights_filmtelevision#.U9TiW1N0Z8E)
This site says September.
http://www.insightcollectibles.com/ (http://www.insightcollectibles.com/)
This site says December.
Both of these sites are talking about the collector's edition. Will the regular edition come out sooner?
Diamond Comics has the est. shipping date for the trade edition ($50.00) as Oct. 1st and the ART of ALIEN Isolation (34.95) est. shipping date as Oct. 8th
September/ October is more likely than December.
Quote from: Darwinsgirl on Jul 27, 2014, 07:12:46 PM
Diamond Comics has the est. shipping date for the trade edition ($50.00) as Oct. 1st and the ART of ALIEN Isolation (34.95) est. shipping date as Oct. 8th
Where are you getting this information from?
Darwinsgirl works for a book retailer, if I remember correctly?
She does.
Quote from: Cvalda on Jul 28, 2014, 05:12:23 AM
Darwinsgirl works for a book retailer, if I remember correctly?
I am one for over 40 years......... :) Time flies when you do what you love.
Quote from: SM on Nov 23, 2013, 09:47:19 PM
At last I can talk about this.
Danelle contacted me months ago about it and said she was going to ship me a copy when it comes out next year, as she's apparently used a lot of the Timeline website info.
Can we consider this the SMTM?
I didn't write it.
Didn't you consult?
Teensy bit of difference.
What's wrong with being some kind of a consultant? Apparently, you saw the Alien movies once (or more)...
Whoopy f**king do.
Have you not read it cover to cover already?
I've read a couple of versions for the purpose of 'fact checking'.
Then is it fair to say that the published version will have undergone the rigorous process of SMization and is therefore canon?
If you inseest, señor.
Therefore SMTM.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 07, 2014, 02:33:51 AM
Then is it fair to say that the published version will have undergone the rigorous process of SMization and is therefore canon?
It'd have been canon regardless. :P
Isn't that, like, just your opinion, man?
Mine and likely the opinion of FOX, yes.
Their opinion is moo.
Isn't that, like, your opinion, man?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2F2s8s5jd.gif&hash=d93d5acbc675be679b0cfb08e4a4a28bf3b9521a)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia2.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F10PlmARaVhzDzi%2F200_s.gif&hash=4f24ad18e756d9c9e1a653ea9b74ec3c0ec0ce9f)
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/9561686b02ac7e67676c6d80d643fd5d/tumblr_mvjpncN9m31qcxje5o1_r1_250.gif)
Quote from: SM on Aug 07, 2014, 02:32:36 AM
I've read a couple of versions for the purpose of 'fact checking'.
Could you tell me if the book makes a distinction between smooth-headed aliens and ridge-headed and what these aliens are called in the book?
I'm having an argument on about this topic on Xenopedia, but the argument has stalled because the admins want to wait until the Weyland-Yutani Report is published, to see what it says before making any major changes.
Fox implant in my head goes off if I spill.
What are the two sides of the argument?
I'm trying to convince them that smooth-headed aliens should be called Lurkers and ridge-headed aliens should be called Soldiers, as per Aliens: Colonial Marines.
Xenopedia currently labels smooth-headed aliens as Drones and ridge-headed aliens as Warriors. Lurkers are considered to be a separate caste.
I'm arguing that the terms Drone and Warrior are both ambiguous. Drone has been used to describe both smooth-headed aliens (AVP: Evolution) and ridge-headed aliens (Aliens versus Predator 2, various novels). Warrior has been used to describe both smooth-headed aliens (Aliens vs Predator 2010, AVP: Evolution, various action figures) and ridge-headed aliens (Aliens versus Predator: Extinction, Aliens vs Predator 2010, AVP Evolution, various action figures).
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Drone#Smooth-headed_aliens_are_NOT_Drones (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Drone#Smooth-headed_aliens_are_NOT_Drones)
Here's the whole thing if you want to read it. My username is NetSpiker and my opponent is Toa Quarax.
They're just labels, call them whatever you want.
Quote from: SM on Aug 07, 2014, 08:31:41 AM
Fox implant in my head goes off if I spill.
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2903248128/hF83355BE/)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 07, 2014, 11:59:37 AM
They're just labels, call them whatever you want.
That's very laid back of you.
Quote from: SM on Aug 07, 2014, 08:31:41 AM
Fox implant in my head goes off if I spill.
What are the two sides of the argument?
How soon will be you at liberty to discuss the contents of the SMTM?
When the book's out. By which stage it won't really matter.
Quote from: SM on Aug 07, 2014, 10:10:25 PMWhen the book's out. By which stage it won't really matter.
It's inevitable that we will have questions. Will you be available to answer them or will you allow your new fame to change you?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 08, 2014, 03:45:12 AM
The Dude abides.
Sometimes the bear eats
you.
Oh don't worry, I'll release reams of correspondence discussing how Ripley managed to take maternity leave 7 years after Amanda was born...
Does it contradict any of the mistakes in the CMTM?
So.. I'm guessing SM is now an Authority for all things Alien-Predator? :-\
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 08, 2014, 05:41:23 AM
Does it contradict any of the mistakes in the CMTM?
Now, that'd be telling.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 08, 2014, 05:45:19 AM
So.. I'm guessing SM is now an Authority for all things Alien-Predator now? :-\
"now?"
Quote from: SM on Aug 08, 2014, 05:46:13 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 08, 2014, 05:41:23 AM
Does it contradict any of the mistakes in the CMTM?
Now, that'd be telling.
Tease.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 08, 2014, 06:30:03 AM
"now?"
Typo on my part for making double usage of the word.
That's not what I meant.
This ping pong match of bitchery is great :D
Quote from: SM on Aug 08, 2014, 05:46:13 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 08, 2014, 05:41:23 AM
Does it contradict any of the mistakes in the CMTM?
Now, that'd be telling.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1028.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy347%2FTheEighthPassenger%2Fgestapo_cat_zpsb7466849.jpg&hash=14ba43fa1457a289c128902ab00ceb60da2970f5)
Guyz, just wait until the book is out. No use to empty already now the flamethrower ;)
Not gonna lie, Local Trouble's incessant fellating of SM is a little bit nauseating, and SM's responses have made it clear to me at least that he's trying to be humble about his contributions to the book.
Not like this is the first time an "official" source has used something SM made, anyway. :P
Xenomrph are you not also technically a contributor to this book? Assuming S.D Perry used info from the EU timeline?
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 08, 2014, 04:18:59 PM
Xenomrph are you not also technically a contributor to this book? Assuming S.D Perry used info from the EU timeline?
Technically yes, although I wasn't consulted directly by S.D. Perry like SM was.
How did you contribute?
Quote from: locusta on Aug 08, 2014, 12:43:20 PM
Guyz, just wait until the book is out. No use to empty already now the flamethrower ;)
Locusta knows what's up. ;D
Alright, alright, alright. I suppose I can wait. I'll guess stop trying to, er, suck the details out of SM for now.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 08, 2014, 10:03:01 PM
How did you contribute?
If S.D. Perry cited the EU timeline from SM's website, he and I co-wrote it.
That must have been an interesting collaboration. :D
It was a long time ago. :P
Did you help with the banned histories section?
Yes, that's what we co-wrote.
He's still got my name spelled wrong on his site, but that's okay. :P
Is anyone else having trouble finding this book on Amazon?
Yup. No preorder listings yet on US or UK Amazon.
The SMTM is being suppressed! >:(
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcelebritiesdailynews.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2Fnew-promo-for-teen-wolf-season-4-reveals-creepy-villains.jpg&hash=b87e8ce8a79d77009861a5769bdcc9a58fbfa487)
How can I help?
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/collectibles/alien-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-insight-collectibles-902252/ (http://www.sideshowtoy.com/collectibles/alien-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-insight-collectibles-902252/)
;)
I guess it got announced then. :)
No way I'm paying that much for it, but that is a pretty cool cover.
I hope the standard edition is more reasonable.
Standard is 50 bugs ;)
Easily affordable for Fiorina citizens then.
I 'ATE BUGS!!!
:D
Eh... what's up doc?
And some interesting stuff in the book:
Quote• 160 pages plus a stunning gatefold featuring a jaw-dropping original
illustration of the Sulaco ship from Aliens
• 20 insert items that bring to life key moments from the Alien movies
• Features material from Prometheus, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Alien
Resurrection and is one of the first books to bring the worlds of
Prometheus and the Alien films together
• Amazing new narrative that sees the sinister Weyland-Yutani Corporation
explore the secrets of the Xenomorph
• Contains over 30 original illustrations by Xenomorph expert Markus
Pansegrau, who has painstakingly recreated each version of the creature
seen in the movies with stunning digital art
• Contains 10 illustrations by Alien tech expert John R. Mullaney, including
cutaways of the Dropship and APC, and uniquely detailed renderings of
the ships Nostromo and Sulaco and iconic weapons such as the Pulse
Rifle and Smart Gun.
The book also features a wealth of inserts and removable items, including:
• Pvt. Hudson's discharge papers
• Veterinarian report on Jonesy the cat
• Medical report on facehugger victim Marachuk, John J.
• Carter J. Burke's communication card
• Chest X-ray showing Xenomorph implantation
• Signed certificate of canonicity by Middlebrook S.
• Bug Stomper Dropship sticker
• Exclusive extracts from prisoner Morse's tell-all novel, Space Beast
Quote• Veterinarian report on Jonesy the cat
:D Well I simply must have that!
Any idea how much of that (if any) is exclusive to the Collector's Edition?
Multiple specimens of parasitiformes found on subject Jones including Acarina, Siphonaptera and Ctenocephalides felis.
Recommend prescription of Lufenuron and Methoprene.
Quote from: SM on Aug 29, 2014, 11:36:22 AM
I guess it got announced then. :)
Thought we'd already seen this?
Can't say I'm willing to shell out for that.
I'm wondering what material is used for the sculpted cover?
The price is more than I can afford. :P
I'm guessing the trade edition will be like an upgraded version of ALIEN Vault with slipcase...sans scuplting.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 29, 2014, 01:43:50 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 29, 2014, 11:36:22 AM
I guess it got announced then. :)
Thought we'd already seen this?
Can't say I'm willing to shell out for that.
Still hope You give it a shot ;)
^
Well, give the man a
round of applause! ;)
Quote from: Darwinsgirl on Aug 29, 2014, 03:37:38 PM
I'm wondering what material is used for the sculpted cover?
Looks like some sort of secreted resin.
:D
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 29, 2014, 01:43:50 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 29, 2014, 11:36:22 AM
I guess it got announced then. :)
Thought we'd already seen this?
Can't say I'm willing to shell out for that.
When Cvalda and Local Trouble said it wasn't on Amazon, I contacted Insight and they said it was going to go through Sideshow - but I wasn't at liberty to mention it.
$325 is steep. But it sure look purty.
$325 isn't steep.
$325 is a straight vertical drop into a cash abyss.
Hicks always gets freebies anyway.
Quote from: Cvalda on Aug 29, 2014, 09:51:18 PM
$325 isn't steep.
$325 is a straight vertical drop into a cash abyss.
I liked the installment payment option: "Payment options as low as $73.13 a month." :laugh:
I will not forget the fanbase. A bit patients and let's see until December ;)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 29, 2014, 01:21:25 PM
Eh... what's up doc?
And some interesting stuff in the book:
Quote• 160 pages plus a stunning gatefold featuring a jaw-dropping original
illustration of the Sulaco ship from Aliens
• 20 insert items that bring to life key moments from the Alien movies
• Features material from Prometheus, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Alien
Resurrection and is one of the first books to bring the worlds of
Prometheus and the Alien films together
• Amazing new narrative that sees the sinister Weyland-Yutani Corporation
explore the secrets of the Xenomorph
• Contains over 30 original illustrations by Xenomorph expert Markus
Pansegrau, who has painstakingly recreated each version of the creature
seen in the movies with stunning digital art
• Contains 10 illustrations by Alien tech expert John R. Mullaney, including
cutaways of the Dropship and APC, and uniquely detailed renderings of
the ships Nostromo and Sulaco and iconic weapons such as the Pulse
Rifle and Smart Gun.
The book also features a wealth of inserts and removable items, including:
• Pvt. Hudson's discharge papers
• Veterinarian report on Jonesy the cat
• Medical report on facehugger victim Marachuk, John J.
• Carter J. Burke's communication card
• Chest X-ray showing Xenomorph implantation
• Signed certificate of canonicity by Middlebrook S.
• Bug Stomper Dropship sticker
• Exclusive extracts from prisoner Morse's tell-all novel, Space Beast
Got a source for all of that? A bunch of that is pretty questionable, especially "• Signed certificate of canonicity by Middlebrook S." :P
And Morse's novel was 'The Dragon' - Space Beast would be an odd choice for a title, especially when the original script draft's title was Star Beast.
Quote from: SM on Aug 29, 2014, 09:45:24 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 29, 2014, 01:43:50 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 29, 2014, 11:36:22 AM
I guess it got announced then. :)
Thought we'd already seen this?
Can't say I'm willing to shell out for that.
When Cvalda and Local Trouble said it wasn't on Amazon, I contacted Insight and they said it was going to go through Sideshow - but I wasn't at liberty to mention it.
$325 is steep. But it sure look purty.
You get a small percentage from each sale?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 30, 2014, 04:32:09 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 29, 2014, 01:21:25 PM
Eh... what's up doc?
And some interesting stuff in the book:
Quote• 160 pages plus a stunning gatefold featuring a jaw-dropping original
illustration of the Sulaco ship from Aliens
• 20 insert items that bring to life key moments from the Alien movies
• Features material from Prometheus, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Alien
Resurrection and is one of the first books to bring the worlds of
Prometheus and the Alien films together
• Amazing new narrative that sees the sinister Weyland-Yutani Corporation
explore the secrets of the Xenomorph
• Contains over 30 original illustrations by Xenomorph expert Markus
Pansegrau, who has painstakingly recreated each version of the creature
seen in the movies with stunning digital art
• Contains 10 illustrations by Alien tech expert John R. Mullaney, including
cutaways of the Dropship and APC, and uniquely detailed renderings of
the ships Nostromo and Sulaco and iconic weapons such as the Pulse
Rifle and Smart Gun.
The book also features a wealth of inserts and removable items, including:
• Pvt. Hudson's discharge papers
• Veterinarian report on Jonesy the cat
• Medical report on facehugger victim Marachuk, John J.
• Carter J. Burke's communication card
• Chest X-ray showing Xenomorph implantation
• Signed certificate of canonicity by Middlebrook S.
• Bug Stomper Dropship sticker
• Exclusive extracts from prisoner Morse's tell-all novel, Space Beast
Got a source for all of that? A bunch of that is pretty questionable, especially "• Signed certificate of canonicity by Middlebrook S." :P
And Morse's novel was 'The Dragon' - Space Beast would be an odd choice for a title, especially when the original script draft's title was Star Beast.
Minus the certificate: http://www.sideshowtoy.com/collectibles/alien-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-insight-collectibles-902252/ (http://www.sideshowtoy.com/collectibles/alien-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-insight-collectibles-902252/)
Yeah, the certificate is an additional $875 optional extra.
Whoever the hell that Middlebrook, S. person is, he/she ain't cheap that's for sure.
I can do it on installments.
But never mind that - cover by one of AvPGs finest AND Boba Fett.
Quote from: SM on Aug 31, 2014, 08:31:44 PM
I can do it on installments.
But never mind that - cover by one of AvPGs finest AND Boba Fett.
Cheers mate. But content will beat the cover, at least I hope so :D LOL
Oh, it will.
Quote from: locusta on Aug 30, 2014, 08:05:44 AM
I will not forget the fanbase. A bit patients and let's see until December ;)
I have a feeling you had something to do with this too? :P Did you work on the standard cover or this one?
Quote from: SM on Aug 29, 2014, 09:59:14 PM
Hicks always gets freebies anyway.
Not
always. Never received a reply when I branched out to Insight. And S.D isn't very fast when it comes to replying to e-mails. I asked if she'd got a picture to go along with our interview ages ago and she's yet to reply. I'll poke her again.
I'll definitely pick up a standard edition.
Anyone know if any of the features listed in those bullet points will be exclusive to the Collector's Edition? Or will they all be in the standard edition too?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 01, 2014, 07:21:16 AM
Quote from: locusta on Aug 30, 2014, 08:05:44 AM
I will not forget the fanbase. A bit patients and let's see until December ;)
I have a feeling you had something to do with this too? :P Did you work on the standard cover or this one?
Quote from: SM on Aug 29, 2014, 09:59:14 PM
Hicks always gets freebies anyway.
Not always. Never received a reply when I branched out to them. And S.D isn't very fast when it comes to replying to e-mails. I asked if she'd got a picture to go along with our interview ages ago and she's yet to reply. xD
I'll definitely pick up a standard edition.
Well, I guessed all what is listed at the specs over at Sideshow would finally release me from NDA :D
Not only the cover is mine ;)
And I guess the Standard edition will be a very, very good buy as well.
As for freebies, please read the comment I stated a page before. ;)
I don't believe the special edition will have extra content - though perhaps the inserts may be differently formatted or presented. Don't know for certain.
Quote from: SM on Aug 31, 2014, 08:31:44 PM
I can do it on installments.
That's very sporting of you ol' chap! Do you accept Afghan Afghani's, Zimbabwean Dollars or Coke bottle caps?
Quote from: locusta on Sep 01, 2014, 08:04:21 AM
the cover is mine ;)
Lovely job on the cover Mr. Grasshopper!
The thing I'm most excited for out of this...Morse. I really want to see what Danelle has done for that.
Quote from: SM on Sep 01, 2014, 08:11:13 AMI don't believe the special edition will have extra content - though perhaps the inserts may be differently formatted or presented. Don't know for certain.
Thanks, hopefully you're right. I love the sound of some of that stuff but I can't justify shelling out so much for the bumper edition.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 01, 2014, 12:32:37 PMThe thing I'm most excited for out of this...Morse. I really want to see what Danelle has done for that.
Same, interested to see what they've come up with for him! The medical report on John Marachek caught my eye too, always wanted to hear more about him.
Yeah, guys. The ultimate Fanboy work!
Here you got it! :D
Let the flame war begin.
Ah, just kidding. At least it was fun to work on and I still can´t believe how I have done it. (Still suffer from sleep deprivation) :D
AHHHHH you worked on it! Haven't read any earlier comments and didn't know. I was literally thinking this "Xenomorph expert" Markus ain't got nothing on Locusta. :D
Quote• Veterinarian report on Jonesy the cat
The. Cat's. Name. Is. JONES! >:(
a.k.a "Kitty Crap" or "Little Shit-head".
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Sep 01, 2014, 03:59:54 PM
Quote• Veterinarian report on Jonesy the cat
The. Cat's. Name. Is. JONES! >:(
MISTER Jones to you.
Quote from: SM on Sep 01, 2014, 09:49:19 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Sep 01, 2014, 03:59:54 PM
Quote• Veterinarian report on Jonesy the cat
The. Cat's. Name. Is. JONES! >:(
MISTER Jones to you.
Actually, I'm not sure if you're playing the 'Legendary Encounters' Alien game, but if you are, you might be amused to hear my son and I have taken to calling him '
Dr. Jones'. ;D
Congratulations to both locusta and SM for their contributions to this book. It looks awesome.
I'm looking forward to this item being released and seeing both your contributions permanently committed to print in such a definitive tome. I expect we'll see some extraordinary content by locusta and I also expect SM will be the pedantic 'little shithead' ;) for detail we have all come to appreciate and love. Good for us all, I say.
I expect so much from this volume and my anticipations for this one were not only high to start with but have since now been elevated.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Sep 01, 2014, 10:09:17 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 01, 2014, 09:49:19 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Sep 01, 2014, 03:59:54 PM
Quote• Veterinarian report on Jonesy the cat
The. Cat's. Name. Is. JONES! >:(
MISTER Jones to you.
Actually, I'm not sure if you're playing the 'Legendary Encounters' Alien game, but if you are, you might be amused to hear my son and I have taken to calling him 'Dr. Jones'. ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1jPUB7gRyg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1jPUB7gRyg)
Quote from: SM on Sep 01, 2014, 10:47:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Sep 01, 2014, 10:09:17 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 01, 2014, 09:49:19 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Sep 01, 2014, 03:59:54 PM
Quote• Veterinarian report on Jonesy the cat
The. Cat's. Name. Is. JONES! >:(
MISTER Jones to you.
Actually, I'm not sure if you're playing the 'Legendary Encounters' Alien game, but if you are, you might be amused to hear my son and I have taken to calling him 'Dr. Jones'. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1jPUB7gRyg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1jPUB7gRyg)
"The user has not made this video viewable in your country." :(
That aside, congrats to you and locusta! I'll be looking forward to reading your contributions, and cringing to see the name 'Jonesy' on an official form. :D
My "contributions" are virtually non-existant.
Locusta on the other hand...
Fantastic cover! If I had an extra 325 to spend on a book it would be on this one, but I will have to wait for the standard edition.
We still don't have any listings anywhere for the standard edition, do we?
Doesn't look like. Nothing on Amazon.
dear sm and locusta
why is the book so expensive
signed
/poorfag
dear /poorfag
don't look at me. locusta don't come cheap.
Dear SM
I will pay the amount listed if you decaonize ACM
your friend
/poorfag
Make it rain and I think about it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 02, 2014, 05:40:38 AM
Doesn't look like. Nothing on Amazon.
Assuming there will be a standard edition.
I doubt they'll be shifting many if that's the case - I'm sure this is too expensive for most.
I've tried getting in touch with Insight again to get some info.
The fact this is the "Collector's Edition" implies there will be a standard edition to go along with it.
Wow! 325? That's crazy expensive! I mean, it's a cool book, but dang!
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o
SD Perry is here? Is this legit or someone masquerading as SD Perry?
I'm checking with her. She used to be registered here years ago.
I spoke to her yesterday so it's possible she swinging by.
Plus, I'm sorry about being so flaky, Corporal. Please don't wait on me for anything, My picture is not worth waiting for. :)
I seriously can't imagine anyone pretending to be me, for any reason. Totally flattering, though, thank you! And in case anyone cares, I did NOT call Mister Jones "Jonesy" in the bill of health.
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 02, 2014, 07:45:35 AM
Plus, I'm sorry about being so flaky, Corporal. Please don't wait on me for anything, My picture is not worth waiting for. :)
Haha. To be fair, you did warn me from the start about that. It just makes a nice change from pictures of books all the time. :P
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 02, 2014, 07:50:47 AM
I seriously can't imagine anyone pretending to be me, for any reason. Totally flattering, though, thank you! And in case anyone cares, I did NOT call Mister Jones "Jonesy" in the bill of health.
Straight from the Perry's mouth.
:)
Nice to hear some things start to clear up ;) Cheers!
About standard edition: Will come and more news about that one quite sooon.
Price is harsh, no doubt. But to make sure, it was not Mr. Locusta´s fee. But I tried to give my best without counting the nickels. :D
Well, the SE is a Sideshow product and they don´t come cheap. Keep in mind it is huge and heavy and as it might not be mentioned by now, it comes with real leather binding etc. The Xeno-Porsche so to say.
I wonder why they did not announce by now, that the standard edition will be release prior to that one.
In the meanwhile, let´s hope that the anticipation is not clouded and let me say that I´m happy and proud to be part of a book, I would have pulled a leg for as a young one when my lifelong addiction took it´s start (and that´s actually a terrible long time already) :D :D
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 02, 2014, 06:07:06 AM
Dear SM
I will pay the amount listed if you decaonize ACM
your friend
/poorfag
*deaconize
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.independent.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2007%2F07%2F25%2FOrdination_Web.jpg&hash=c09e4f761afb7a3bb858d84938aba85d50913410)
and get yerself a job yer bloody layabout! :laugh:
Man, I so want to get the limited book, screw the price...but my cat just shred my 15 year old copy of the Alien omnibus, so i'm gonna take that as a sign and wait for the standard... Stupid cat.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 02, 2014, 11:56:30 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 02, 2014, 06:07:06 AM
Dear SM
I will pay the amount listed if you decaonize ACM
your friend
/poorfag
*deaconize
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.independent.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2007%2F07%2F25%2FOrdination_Web.jpg&hash=c09e4f761afb7a3bb858d84938aba85d50913410)
and get yerself a job yer bloody layabout! :laugh:
lulz
Congrats to SM & Locusta! 8)
Thanks for clearing up what the binding is made of Locusta. I thought it looked like leather and that would help explain part of the cost.
tell fox if they ever need a stick alien drawn on line paper............I'm their guy
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 02, 2014, 04:03:11 PM
tell fox if they ever need a stick alien drawn on line paper............I'm their guy
Will do my best ;)
Quote from: Darwinsgirl on Sep 02, 2014, 04:01:40 PM
Congrats to SM & Locusta! 8)
Thanks for clearing up what the binding is made of Locusta. I thought it looked like leather and that would help explain part of the cost.
Thanx allot, highly appreciated. I just know that the book spine and backside are supposed to be leather with some special treatment. But all front faces will be hand painted, what's costy as well.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 29, 2014, 01:21:25 PM• Signed certificate of canonicity by Middlebrook S.
In every copy or just five gold ones in five random copies all over the world?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 02, 2014, 07:33:30 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 29, 2014, 01:21:25 PM• Signed certificate of canonicity by Middlebrook S.
In every copy or just five gold ones in five random copies all over the world?
What I know, it will be in all copies and in his blood. Hope does not get too pale. ;)
Quote from: locusta on Sep 02, 2014, 07:46:39 PM
What I know, it will be in all copies and in his blood. Hope does not get too pale. ;)
Reminiscent of the Kiss Comic that had members blood added to the ink...
Quote from: locusta on Sep 02, 2014, 07:46:39 PMWhat I know, it will be in all copies and in his blood. Hope does not get too pale. ;)
They have to dilute it anyway or it'll corrode the paper like molecular acid.
Quote from: SM on Sep 02, 2014, 08:35:50 AM
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 02, 2014, 07:50:47 AMAnd in case anyone cares, I did NOT call Mister Jones "Jonesy" in the bill of health.
Straight from the Perry's mouth.
:)
Well, there's me, un-displeased! ;D
So, Corporal Hicks asked if I could hang out here for a couple of days to answer questions. Happy to do so; I'll check in every day for the rest of the week, at least. Feel free to ask whatever. And I totally agree with locusta--whatever the price, I'm also proud to be connected to this project. Being the voice of Weyland Yutani was great fun, and the layout they sent me to caption was awesome; I'm sure it's an amazing book.
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 03, 2014, 03:19:44 AM
So, Corporal Hicks asked if I could hang out here for a couple of days to answer questions. Happy to do so; I'll check in every day for the rest of the week, at least. Feel free to ask whatever. And I totally agree with locusta--whatever the price, I'm also proud to be connected to this project. Being the voice of Weyland Yutani was great fun, and the layout they sent me to caption was awesome; I'm sure it's an amazing book.
That´s great and wonderful to hear. Many thanks for that.
I for myself feel relieved as well, to finally be able to talk about it, after such a long time of keeping silent. There are quite some stories to tell, but sure there will be the right occasion for it.
Hi Danelle - it's Scott here.
Glad you can answer questions - I'm too frightened of Fox NDAs. :)
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 03, 2014, 03:19:44 AMSo, Corporal Hicks asked if I could hang out here for a couple of days to answer questions. Happy to do so; I'll check in every day for the rest of the week, at least. Feel free to ask whatever.
Good news! I'll have to think of something to ask.
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 03, 2014, 03:19:44 AMAnd I totally agree with locusta--whatever the price, I'm also proud to be connected to this project. Being the voice of Weyland Yutani was great fun, and the layout they sent me to caption was awesome; I'm sure it's an amazing book.
I'm sure the regular version will be more affordable. I just can't justify spending £200 on a book, no matter how awesome it looks.
Thanks for staying around, Danelle. I assume that there will be a standard edition too? Seems a little daft to not.
One thing I'm curious about is the Space Beast segments. How big are they?
Thanks for agreeing to answer a few questions for us, rabid fans, Ms. Perry. We've been trying to extract information from SM via various questionable means such as torture, bribery, coercion/extortion, trickery and cranial USB port but alas it was all to no avail.
He did however let slip that Fox is apparently now taking a more serious stance on what it considers "canon". The features blurb mentions that material from Prometheus, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Alien Resurrection were used. Will it also incorporate material or elements from the "EU" such as the recent Alien novels (Sea of Sorrows, Out of the Shadows) and games such as Alien: Isolation and Aliens: Colonial Marines?
Does the book include an official canonical timeline?
There appears to be a fair amount of technical illustrations in the book and again the blurb mentions "extensive information on the characters, locations, vehicles, and weapons from the movies, along with an in-depth breakdown of the Xenomorph's life cycle." Will it therefore follow a similar format to the "Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual"?
Will it address any of the films unexplained mysteries such as the egg on the Sulaco (Alien 3), Egg-morphing vs. the Queen Alien, the box Alien, Fifield and Milburn getting lost, whether Xenomorphs were engineered or naturally occurring, the Walmart buyout of Weyland-Yutani and the confusion surrounding the various incarnations of Bishop and Weyland CEO's (the so-called Weyland Effectâ„¢)?
That's all I can think of for now and thanks again for taking the time to give us a better idea of what to expect in the book.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 03, 2014, 08:29:05 AMOne thing I'm curious about is the Space Beast segments. How big are they?
I'm curious about that too. It's probably the thing that most caught my eye on that list.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 03, 2014, 11:24:10 AM
There appears to be a fair amount of technical illustrations in the book and again the blurb mentions "extensive information on the characters, locations, vehicles, and weapons from the movies, along with an in-depth breakdown of the Xenomorph's life cycle." Will it therefore follow a similar format to the "Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual"?
I do know that in the hardware illustrations at least such as the Dropship and APC cutaways there has been a huge amount of effort put in to ensure cohesiveness between different sources that have gone before, such as the Tech Manual, what is seen in the movie and behind the scenes photos, the Nostromo print that was released with Alien: Vault, and the APC print that will be provided with pre-orders of Hollywood Collectible Group's APC model out later in the year. John R. Mullaney has done a stella job of the illustrations worked on for this book, really superb.
Like everyone else I haven't seen the rest of the book yet, but from the small amounts I have seen I'm very much looking forward to it from a fan perspective.
Best,
- USG Ishimura (aka 'Space Jockey' on Aliens Legacy, Propsummit forums)
Does the Weyland-Yutani in this book pre or post-date Alien Resurrection?
Greetings Ms. Perry :)
Since this is the first book to include Prometheus in the ALIEN universe. Will there be more insight to the origin of the ALIEN? Weylan Yutani's first knowledge of the signal or encounter with the species? Was this an engineered bio weapon?...a species from??? Or are these to remain a mystery to be solved?
(this almost sounds like it could be an ad teaser for the book! :D)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 03, 2014, 05:22:13 PM
Does the Weyland-Yutani in this book pre or post-date Alien Resurrection?
I sincerely hope pre-date.
QuoteFeatures material from Prometheus, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Alien Resurrection and is one of the first books to bring the worlds of Prometheus and the Alien films together.
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Sep 04, 2014, 01:05:35 AM
I sincerely hope pre-date.
The Walmart Report doesn't have that ring to it
They are, however, free. (http://stock.walmart.com/annual-reports)
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 03, 2014, 03:19:44 AM
So, Corporal Hicks asked if I could hang out here for a couple of days to answer questions. Happy to do so; I'll check in every day for the rest of the week, at least. Feel free to ask whatever. And I totally agree with locusta--whatever the price, I'm also proud to be connected to this project. Being the voice of Weyland Yutani was great fun, and the layout they sent me to caption was awesome; I'm sure it's an amazing book.
Hi SD Perry (if you're still around), I'm a HUGE fan of your work and have read all your Aliens/AVP books. I was REALLY excited to hear that you would be working on the Weyland-Yutani Report, it's so reassuring to know that a project of this magnitude was put in the hands of someone with a longstanding history in the franchise. I just wanted to ask whether this Report will reference any of the events that you (and your father) have novelized in many of your stories; you guys are such great authors, it would be amazing to re-live your tales again in this book.
Is SM taking questions now?
Quote from: happypred on Sep 04, 2014, 02:53:25 AM
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Sep 04, 2014, 01:05:35 AM
I sincerely hope pre-date.
The Walmart Report doesn't have that ring to it
The whole Walmart thing is only mentioned in the DC of ALIEN:Resurrection. Therefor I personally consider it non existing.
Just found this online:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20140727092957%2Fweyland-ycorporation%2Fimages%2Fc%2Fcf%2FAlien_the_weyland_Yutani_report.jpg&hash=b05944fee435628672a95f161655c2dc31acdbcf)
http://www.insightcollectibles.com/ (http://www.insightcollectibles.com/)
Couple of preview pages on Insight's website.
http://www.insightcollectibles.com/img/alien-page01-HD.jpg (http://www.insightcollectibles.com/img/alien-page01-HD.jpg)
http://www.insightcollectibles.com/detail.aspx?i=alien2 (http://www.insightcollectibles.com/detail.aspx?i=alien2)
Is that dog alien illustration a locusta original?
Also, who's idea was "Xenomorph XX121?" An an avowed hater of the term "xenomorph" as it's come to be used by fans, I actually dig that idea a nice compromise. Kudos to Ms. Perry if she came up with it.
The rest of that sample page about the facehugger pleases me considerably. Sold.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 04, 2014, 06:59:18 PM
Is that a dog alien illustration a locusta original?
Also, who's idea was "Xenomorph XX121?" An an avowed hater of the term "xenomorph" as it's come to be used by fans, I actually dig that idea a nice compromise. Kudos to Ms. Perry if she came up with it.
The rest of that sample page about the facehugger pleases me considerably. Sold.
Thanx allot.
Well, the SideShow page was just updated and should hopefully not give away to much, but at least make more tease ;)
https://www.sideshowtoy.com/collectibles/alien-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-insight-collectibles-902252/# (https://www.sideshowtoy.com/collectibles/alien-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-insight-collectibles-902252/#)
Based on what I've seen so far, I seriously hope Fox assembles the same talent to mastermind the franchise for any other Alien-related projects in the future.
And I say that as an admitted bitter, old and cynical fan who lost faith in the series ages ago and now yells at kids to stay off my lawn.
Looks good!
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 04, 2014, 06:59:18 PM
The rest of that sample page about the facehugger pleases me considerably. Sold.
Now you know why the huggers in the medlab didn't melt through the glass like they did with Kane's helmet visor.
And the Egg Morphing vs Queen issue has also been answered (to a certain extent).
Spoiler
(https://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition/lg/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-010.jpg)
(https://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition/lg/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-009.jpg)
(https://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition/lg/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-007.jpg)
(https://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition/lg/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-004.jpg)
(https://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition/lg/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-005.jpg)
(https://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition/lg/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-006.jpg)
(https://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition/lg/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-012.jpg)
(https://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition/lg/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-003.jpg)
(https://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition/lg/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-008.jpg)
(https://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition/lg/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-011.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.insightcollectibles.com%2Fimg%2Falien-page01-HD.jpg&hash=4e9ce3d44ce349c2bbce2e0e36b8fe8a2e8bbc96)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.insightcollectibles.com%2Fimg%2Falien-page11-HD.jpg&hash=8ea1b4b61615a2686ff003912210309c8337d02e)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 04, 2014, 06:59:18 PMAlso, who's idea was "Xenomorph XX121?" An an avowed hater of the term "xenomorph" as it's come to be used by fans, I actually dig that idea a nice compromise. Kudos to Ms. Perry if she came up with it.
I've no idea who originally came up with it, but it was used in
Sea of Sorrows.
Quote from: SM on Sep 04, 2014, 03:27:22 AM
They are, however, free. (http://stock.walmart.com/annual-reports)
:D
I like that the actors' first names were used for some of the Prometheus characters.
Like how certain bits relating to David and Shaw's fate has been blanked out.
Millburn is supposed to have 2 Ls.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130521203613%2Fprometheus%2Fimages%2F7%2F7a%2FMillburninampuleroom.jpg&hash=b615518ecd6929b4251048be4c13c4cb67f08162)
Yeah... STOP THE PRESS!
Looks like SM screwed up.
Noticed that Hick's report mentioned a small team of REMF Marines.. Is that a reference to Fire and Stone, or were the REMF Marines mentioned in other media way before the upcoming Dark Horse reboot?
Quote from: Quarax on Sep 04, 2014, 09:21:59 PM
Millburn is supposed to have 2 Ls.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg4.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130521203613%2Fprometheus%2Fimages%2F7%2F7a%2FMillburninampuleroom.jpg&hash=b615518ecd6929b4251048be4c13c4cb67f08162)
Bummer.
Well, the sample pages have "prototype" stamped all over them and a few captions are still incomplete so hopefully the typo has been spotted by an editor.
I misspelled his name myself a couple pages back.
I'll tell the editor, but I suspect it's gotten by about half a dozen people.
Disappointing, but if you'd asked me I would've said it was only spelled with one L.
He can't even decide whether he has a Southern accent or not, so it's fitting he wouldn't remember if his name had one L or two. ;D
Quote from: SM on Sep 04, 2014, 10:06:32 PM
I'll tell the editor, but I suspect it's gotten by about half a dozen people.
Disappointing, but if you'd asked me I would've said it was only spelled with one L.
If the book says "would of" at any point, I'm blaming SM.
I'll totes wear that one...
Wow, some good questions! I don't want to be a big spoiler person, so I'll try to address as many as I can without going overboard...
OK, in no particular order:
-Yes, there will be a standard edition, so far as I know.
-I wrote about ten pages of material of the fictional Space Beast, telling the story of what happened on Fury 161 in Morse's voice. So, like 10 pages from a book. I haven't seen the very final version, so some of it may have been cut... BTW, WAY fun to write.
-Yes, there's a timeline. I did my best, but it was a major undertaking. Thankfully, my editor and his contact at Fox had several uber-fans contracted to check for continuity, so it should be fairly comprehensive. I was asked to reference some of the new stuff coming out (Fire and Stone, the game, etc), so that upcoming projects would be included in canon, but there aren't a lot of details in the report, just references.
-The USCM tech manual was a great resource, but I don't think this book is much like it... totally different visuals, and a lot of Company voice in this one. This is more about WY's take on the xenomorph than a tech book, though there is a lot of tech stuff included. The art is amazing.
-The big mysteries, like how did the egg get on the Sulaco... I addressed some of these things but didn't definitively answer them. Remember, these were movies, there was a ton of artistic license taken when they were made, and while I did my best to supply plausible theories, I didn't necessarily solve anything.
-The WY report is written a few months after the events in Resurrection.
-With Prometheus, I had to be very, very careful about discussing Alien origin, because there are new things being written and I wasn't invited to speculate. That's all I can say, I believe. Except that I'm pretty certain it's Milburn, one L. Online sources disagree in either direction, but it was Milburn in the script...
-The Walmart thing... my editor and I decided that was a rumor. WY just had to go underground for awhile.
-Oh, and I came up with XX121. Honestly, I just put it in as a reminder to go back and put in whatever WY really called the things, but the higher ups decided that XX121 worked just fine. Apparently, that is now the creature's designation. Go figure!
Did I get everything so far? Thank you so much for asking, and for your kind words. I'll still be around for a few days, so please ask more... If I can answer, I will. Cheers!
I stand corrected. It does say Millburn on his helmet... Maybe they misspelled it? :)
It seems like Fox is making major changes to the Alien franchise. Since there seems to be some non-disclosure agreements potentially barring details on the book, and this does relate to the timeline in a sense.. I would assume that there is some hush-hush on what is included, but can you talk about what entries in the franchise are not in the timeline? Were you told to leave out certain entries and events from the timeline as well?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 04, 2014, 09:35:43 PM
Noticed that Hick's report mentioned a small team of REMF Marines.. Is that a reference to Fire and Stone, or were the REMF Marines mentioned in other media way before the upcoming Dark Horse reboot?
I'm trying to avoid spoilers by not looking at all this but in military jargon REMF stands for rear echelon motherf**kers. Mostly hated by those of us that have done time in combat arms because they are so far removed from the battlefield they are like civilians in uniform and want to try to call the shots (and often do) about our SOP, ROE, and TTPs even though they might be countries away and oblivious to the actual situation on the ground.
See pog (person other than grunt) and fobbit (deployed individuals who never leave the wire).
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 05, 2014, 12:44:47 AM
I stand corrected. It does say Millburn on his helmet... Maybe they misspelled it? :)
Vickers misspelled it on the manifest, thus leading to the ground crew misspelling it on his clothes and video feed.
Must be it. :)
Are there references to any of the older stuff in the timeline? The Bantam novels, 90s-era comics, etc.
And.. this is completely left field but.. the AvP movies.. What is exactly Fox's stance on those? Are those an alternate universe, a separate canon or.. did they just never happen? I would be disappointed if it was the last but this was something I needed to ask.
Quote from: SM on Sep 04, 2014, 01:34:45 AM
Features material from Prometheus, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Alien Resurrection and is one of the first books to bring the worlds of Prometheus and the Alien films together.
Quote from: SM on Sep 05, 2014, 04:36:48 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 04, 2014, 01:34:45 AM
Features material from Prometheus, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, and Alien Resurrection and is one of the first books to bring the worlds of Prometheus and the Alien films together.
I am aware, that never escaped my mind but I just had to ask anyway out of curiosity.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 05, 2014, 04:08:02 AM
And.. this is completely left field but.. the AvP movies.. What is exactly Fox's stance on those? Are those an alternate universe, a separate canon or.. did they just never happen? I would be disappointed if it was the last but this was something I needed to ask.
I guess we can be sure, that AVP and even more AVP Retard never happened. (For the last one I wish that somebody destroys the master copy)
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 05, 2014, 12:42:51 AM-I wrote about ten pages of material of the fictional Space Beast, telling the story of what happened on Fury 161 in Morse's voice. So, like 10 pages from a book. I haven't seen the very final version, so some of it may have been cut... BTW, WAY fun to write.
This is genuinely the most interesting part for me. The whole book looks great, but that bit intrigues me especially, I can't wait to read it.
Quote from: Quarax on Sep 04, 2014, 09:10:48 PMI like that the actors' first names were used for some of the Prometheus characters.
That's getting to be a franchise tradition! :)
It was only Aliens that did that, wasn't it?
Yeah, Space Beast is what I'm most curious about. I'd still love to see a novel with Morse after the events of A3, with quotes from his book spread around it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 05, 2014, 07:39:34 AMIt was only Aliens that did that, wasn't it?
True enough, but I like the fact they've done it again. Plus Janek just got even cooler with Idris as a first name.
Quote from: locusta on Sep 05, 2014, 06:46:35 AM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 05, 2014, 04:08:02 AM
And.. this is completely left field but.. the AvP movies.. What is exactly Fox's stance on those? Are those an alternate universe, a separate canon or.. did they just never happen? I would be disappointed if it was the last but this was something I needed to ask.
I guess we can be sure, that AVP and even more AVP Retard never happened. (For the last one I wish that somebody destroys the master copy)
Lol, if the rumors are true that Fox is trying to create a Master Continuity, then I imagine it would be ridiculously difficult to rationalize why the AVP movies should be de-canonized; I mean those are
actual movies, not just small comics that can be shoved in the back.
Prometheus also is an actual movie.
QuoteThat's getting to be a franchise tradition!
Sort of.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 07:58:17 AMLol, if the rumors are true that Fox is trying to create a Master Continuity, then I imagine it would be ridiculously difficult to rationalize why the AVP movies should be de-canonized; I mean those are actual movies, not just small comics that can be shoved in the back.
Not really.
Casino Royale essentially undid every James Bond movie made before it.
Batman Begins did the same for the Batman franchise. It doesn't stop the earlier films existing, they just don't count in the new continuity.
I already pretend the
AVP films don't exist anyway, because they're sh*t, so making it official wouldn't change much.
Those movies were reboots though, they destroyed even the original classic films from continuity; the concept of deleting films without rational explanation is something completely different.
You assume there isn't a rational explanation?
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 08:17:39 AMThose movies were reboots though, they destroyed even the original classic films from continuity; the concept of deleting films without rational explanation is something completely different.
They're deleting them because they're crap and they totally contradict the fact no one is supposed to have seen the Alien prior to
Alien?
The films were prequels, what did people expect? Good stories with no contradictions?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 05, 2014, 08:16:05 AM
Batman Begins did the same for the Batman franchise. It doesn't stop the earlier films existing, they just don't count in the new continuity.
Actually, in the context of DC's Multiverse.. the Burton/Schumacher films still count as an entirely separate universe from the Nolan films. So.. those exist in-multiverse as far as DC is concerned.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 07:58:17 AM
Lol, if the rumors are true that Fox is trying to create a Master Continuity, then I imagine it would be ridiculously difficult to rationalize why the AVP movies should be de-canonized; I mean those are actual movies, not just small comics that can be shoved in the back.
Well.. so far it's looking like Fox is trying to create a master continuity and if this book proves anything, it cinches the rumor as being true. As for movies being de-canonized, well.. there are some examples of such movies. HuDaFuk pointed out Casino Royale, but I would think the James Bond master continuity would be the novels by Flemming. The only movies which come to mind which decanonizes movies would of course be the Godzilla Heisei movies, which ignores the previous Godzilla movies but the 1954 original. But the Showa era films are considered their own canon.
I don't like the idea of something being jettisoned from canon as much as you do PredXeno but.. so far it's looking like as if that maybe just the case. Personally, I wouldn't mind them being rendered a canonical/semi-canon AU but.. Fox has the power to say it never happened. I don't like it but so far it's looking like it is what it is.
If Fox jettisoned the AVP movies, I would lose a TON of respect for them. I get why they may want to clean up the EU, at some point many of those stories do feel like "filler" episodes, but de-canonizing any of the movies is crossing a line.
Have some self-respect, Fox, you made a movie and you gave it your best, you should stand proudly by your work no matter what people say, to do so otherwise would only prove you have no backbone. If you're going to de-canonize something, de-canonize Newt's death; come to think of it, I could probably jettison the AVP movies if it meant jettisoning Newt's demise as well.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 05, 2014, 08:25:07 AMThe only movies which come to mind which decanonizes movies would of course be the Godzilla Heisei movies, which ignores the previous Godzilla movies but the 1954 original. But the Showa era films are considered their own canon.
Superman Returns ignores
III and
IV, the recent
Universal Soldier films ignore the shitty DTV sequels they made in the 90s,
Jaws: The Revenge totally ignores the previous movie... A whole bunch of horror series do it at some point. It happens more often that you'd think.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 08:31:20 AMHave some self-respect, Fox, you made a movie and you gave it your best, you should stand proudly by your work no matter what people say, to do so otherwise would only prove you have no backbone.
Even if their work offers up a huge plot contradiction that never should have existed in the first place?
The biggest issue I have is it doesn't even feel like they were giving it their best shot with the
AVP films. They were just milking it. For all their faults, the third and fourth
Alien films at least feel like they
tried.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 08:22:00 AM
The films were prequels, what did people expect? Good stories with no contradictions?
Would've been a good start.
AvP can still be canon - it can be canon with AvP:R.
I don't think Fox is axing the AVP films, I looked at a preview page of The Wey-Yu Report and it says that facehugger implantation can take as little as 20 minutes to as long as something else (probably 18-24 hours); point is, the AVP films are the only source that has the gestation period that short, perhaps Fox isn't the sad bunch of cowards we make them out to be. :-\
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 08:45:10 AM
I don't think Fox is axing the AVP films, I looked at a preview page of The Wey-Yu Report and it says that facehugger implantation can take as little as 20 minutes to as long as something else (probably 18-24 hours); point is, the AVP films are the only source that has the gestation period that short, perhaps Fox isn't the sad bunch of cowards we make them out to be. :-\
As much as I share your viewpoints.. I also think that there is clutching onto straws.
Have hope. ;) Speaking of which, there isn't second source that advocates so short a gestation period, is there?
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 08:49:55 AMSpeaking of which, there isn't second source that advocates so short a gestation period, is there?
Pretty much every Alien video game ever made, including
ACM.
I seem to remember implantation being pretty quick in
Out of the Shadows, too, and that's definitely in the new canon.
Not twenty minutes, I don't think. Belle had quite a few hours in her before she burst.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 08:49:55 AM
Have hope. ;) Speaking of which, there isn't second source that advocates so short a gestation period, is there?
Would Burke's gestation scene count, especially considering that Cameron feels that the Director's Cut of ALIENS is the definitive version? But then again.. that one might be an exception since that one isn't in the Director's Cut, is it?
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 08:52:45 AMNot twenty minutes, I don't think. Belle had quite a few hours in her before she burst.
Lol no she didn't, you find her like ten minutes after she disappears. It's even faster with Keyes, you find him like five minutes after he disappears, and in that time he's been carried off, cocooned
and impregnated.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 05, 2014, 08:53:59 AMWould Burke's gestation scene count, especially considering that Cameron feels that the Director's Cut of ALIENS is the definitive version? But then again.. that one might be an exception since that one isn't in the Director's Cut, is it?
That scene isn't in any version of the film, so it can't really count.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 05, 2014, 08:54:55 AM
That scene isn't in any version of the film, so it can't really count.
Fair enough, I can buy that.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 05, 2014, 08:51:46 AM
Pretty much every Alien video game ever made, including ACM.
I will be plum surprised and apalled if ACM made it into the new canon.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 05, 2014, 08:54:55 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 08:52:45 AMNot twenty minutes, I don't think. Belle had quite a few hours in her before she burst.
Lol no she didn't, you find her like ten minutes after she disappears. It's even faster with Keyes, you find him like five minutes after he disappears, and in that time he's been carried off, cocooned and impregnated.
I don't recall a specific timetable being provided on when they were grabbed, couldn't it have been longer than we may have originally inferred?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 05, 2014, 08:56:46 AMI will be plum surprised and apalled if ACM made it into the new canon.
:)
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 08:57:46 AMI don't recall a specific timetable being provided on when they were grabbed, couldn't it have been longer than we may have originally inferred?
The Sephora's literally only just arrived when you start the game, and there's no sign of anything going wrong until you head across the umbilical to the Sulaco. Five minutes after that you're rescuing Keyes.
Actually, the game's opening intro reveals that Winter and some others were woken up later than the other marines so Belle and Keyes would have had more time on the Sulaco than Winter (and the player).
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 09:01:56 AMActually, the game's opening intro reveals that Winter and some others woken up later than the other marines so Belle and Keyes would have had more time on the Sulaco than Winter (and the player).
Even so, nothing goes wrong until the explosion while you're crossing the umbilical. Unless you expect me to believe all the Marines already on the Sulaco got attacked in total silence, not one of them raised the alarm, and their superiors didn't notice they'd all gone missing.
Didn't something already go wrong, though? That's why Winter's team was woken up. Also, a LOT of shit goes down in the A:CM prequel comic that Dark Horse also did (like they did for A:I).
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 08:49:55 AM
Have hope. ;) Speaking of which, there isn't second source that advocates so short a gestation period, is there?
Resurrection script/ novel.
And AvP was way less than 20 minutes.
Remember the title is
Weyland Yutani Report. Danelle is writing from their perspective.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 09:06:13 AMDidn't something already go wrong, though? That's why Winter's team was woken up. Also, a LOT of shit goes down in the A:CM prequel comic that Dark Horse also did (like they did for A:I).
No, because as soon as the explosion happens Cruz is on the radio asking you what the hell's going on. So clearly there was nothing wrong before that, because he'd know about it. The Marines all have radios.
Then when you do get across the umbilical, O'Neil sends off an initial sitrep about the attacks.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 05, 2014, 09:10:14 AMWhat is the smiley for?
Because that game's plot was a mess!
Quote from: SM on Sep 05, 2014, 09:11:51 AMResurrection script/ novel.
That explains it was an alteration resulting from the genetic tampering though, doesn't it? I remember that in the novel.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 05, 2014, 09:15:26 AM
Because that game's plot was a mess!
Exactly why I said I would be surprised and appalled if it was included in the new canon.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 05, 2014, 09:16:56 AMExactly why I said I would be surprised and appalled if it was included in the new canon.
Yeah. To be honest I was smiling because undoing a film that's ten years old is one thing... Undoing a game that only just came out and was hyped up as being the canon continuation of
Aliens? That really would make me laugh.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 05, 2014, 09:18:37 AM
Yeah. To be honest I was smiling because undoing a film that's ten years old is one thing... Undoing a game that only just came out and was hyped up as being the canon continuation of Aliens? That really would make me laugh.
While I don't agree with Fox potentially erasing AvP and would rather have them render that as a semi-canon AU, and I am going to leave it at that.. I will say that if they jettison Colonial Marines from the canon, then it would give this new canon more credibility. Some characters were not meant to be brought back from the dead, like Hicks.. and if Fox wanted to bring him back, then just undo Alien 3 and Resurrection, but then again I wouldn't like that either as I liked Alien 3.. Point is if they wanted to give credibility to ACM, the developers shouldn't have half-assed it and just give out better explanations and scenarios.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 05, 2014, 09:25:30 AMWhile I don't agree with Fox potentially erasing AvP and would rather have them render that as a semi-canon AU, and I am going to leave it at that..
To be honest, I don't see what the fuss is about. Even if the
AVPs are 'de-canonised' by Fox, they still exist for people to watch if they so chose. Plus the
Alien timeline makes more sense without them - mankind clearly doesn't know about the Alien until they find the Derelict, so having the creatures running around on Earth a hundred-odd years beforehand kinda screws with that.
It's not like they added much to the
Alien universe anyway. The Weyland origin was already more or less undone by
Prometheus.
I'm just wondering, since the AVPverse does includes the character Weyland and mention of the Yutani corporation, wouldn't it be technically part of the continuum? Obviously, some parts of both movies are rather far fetched compared to the Alien series, but I personally feel that if they can make the Abomination that is the Newborn part of the continuum, they can make the Predalien part of it as well... :-\
Quote from: gabgrave on Sep 05, 2014, 09:41:56 AM
I'm just wondering, since the AVPverse does includes the character Weyland and mention of the Yutani corporation, wouldn't it be technically part of the continuum?
Prometheus went out of it's way to ignore the timeline of the AvP films, and assuming where Fox is going with the franchises.. It's likely that they are no longer considered, fortunately or unfortunately depending on the individual fan's view. That's why I asked Stephanie what Fox's stance on those movies were since well.. she did work quite closely with them and I did inquire what else was mandated to be left out from the book.
I'm also willing to bet that a large portion of the EU which was published between '88 to 2010 was perhaps left out. One could argue that Resurrection essentially retconned the films already but if you count the Big Deletion anyway, Prometheus was perhaps the nail in the coffin as far as the old EU is concerned.. Which is why they're starting a new one.
So it's been confirmed that the Weyland in Prometheus has nothing to do with the Weyland from AVP? There's a lot of in-universe time in between the settings, which may or may not have resulted in knowledge being lost, removed or destroyed by alien hunters from outerspace (I'm looking at Concert Jungle from the PS2). If this has been addressed already I apologize, I've been out of the info loops for a while.
I do see that SM has made it ambiguously clear that the WY Report only covers Prom and the Alien series though, so I'm just putting the question out in general.
Quote from: gabgrave on Sep 05, 2014, 10:08:07 AMSo it's been confirmed that the Weyland in Prometheus has nothing to do with the Weyland from AVP?
Nothing's
confirmed, but the Weyland in
Prometheus didn't tie in with the one we see in
AVP at all.
There's a quote from someone saying as much to Ridley Scott on set, and Scott basically replying that he didn't give a shit. So to me,
Prometheus has already retconned
AVP.
So happy those films are left out. They don't belong any more than does 'Superman vs. Aliens'.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 05, 2014, 08:21:15 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 08:17:39 AMThose movies were reboots though, they destroyed even the original classic films from continuity; the concept of deleting films without rational explanation is something completely different.
They're deleting them because they're crap and they totally contradict the fact no one is supposed to have seen the Alien prior to Alien?
The problem with this line of thinking is that the AvP movies don't totally contradict 'Alien'.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 05, 2014, 11:10:02 AMThe problem with this line of thinking is that the AvP movies don't totally contradict 'Alien'.
No, but they expect us to believe everyone involved in the nuking of an entire small American town in the second film then totally forgot there had been Aliens there.
And that not one person managed to film footage of one on their smart phone and upload it to YouTube.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 05, 2014, 11:13:13 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 05, 2014, 11:10:02 AMThe problem with this line of thinking is that the AvP movies don't totally contradict 'Alien'.
No, but they expect us to believe everyone involved in the nuking of an entire small American town in the second film then totally forgot there had been Aliens there.
And that not one person managed to film footage of one on their smart phone and upload it to YouTube.
They didn't know what was there, they just know they were weird and pissed off and obviously hostile. They didn't even know the Aliens were from another planet - they could have been literally anything. No specimens were recovered, and it's over a century before 'Alien', it's hardly a stretch to conclude that no one made the connection that they were the same creatures in 'Alien', especially with so little data recovered in AvPR.
There mere fact they dropped a thermonuclear warhead on the town implies they knew something.
That's not exactly the next step up the ladder after national guard.
On topic, I have a question for Perry, if she's still around - one of the preview pages we've seen from the Report has Hicks mentioning Marines being stationed at Hadley's Hope before the events of Aliens. Is that designed to tie in to the River of Pain novel? The blurb for that makes mention of Marines being present at the colony.
Some of the comic panels that have been released support that assertion.
About smartphones and Youtube...I believe the film is set in 2004
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 05, 2014, 11:49:01 AM
There mere fact they dropped a thermonuclear warhead on the town implies they knew something.
They knew something was extremely dangerous and out of control. The town got nuked in 'The Crazies' remake, and there's no extraterrestrials in that movie whatsoever. The characters narrowly averted a town getting fuel-air-bombed in 'Outbreak'. A city got nuked in 'Resident Evil: Apocalypse', as well.
Taking drastic measures to contain an unknown outbreak doesn't automatically mean they knew about capital-A Aliens.
its too bad i dont have a massive chunk of money to drop on a damn book...
When exactly is the pre-order for the limited book again?
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 05, 2014, 12:42:51 AM
Wow, some good questions! I don't want to be a big spoiler person, so I'll try to address as many as I can without going overboard...
OK, in no particular order:
-Yes, there will be a standard edition, so far as I know.
-I wrote about ten pages of material of the fictional Space Beast, telling the story of what happened on Fury 161 in Morse's voice. So, like 10 pages from a book. I haven't seen the very final version, so some of it may have been cut... BTW, WAY fun to write.
-Yes, there's a timeline. I did my best, but it was a major undertaking. Thankfully, my editor and his contact at Fox had several uber-fans contracted to check for continuity, so it should be fairly comprehensive. I was asked to reference some of the new stuff coming out (Fire and Stone, the game, etc), so that upcoming projects would be included in canon, but there aren't a lot of details in the report, just references.
-The USCM tech manual was a great resource, but I don't think this book is much like it... totally different visuals, and a lot of Company voice in this one. This is more about WY's take on the xenomorph than a tech book, though there is a lot of tech stuff included. The art is amazing.
-The big mysteries, like how did the egg get on the Sulaco... I addressed some of these things but didn't definitively answer them. Remember, these were movies, there was a ton of artistic license taken when they were made, and while I did my best to supply plausible theories, I didn't necessarily solve anything.
-The WY report is written a few months after the events in Resurrection.
-With Prometheus, I had to be very, very careful about discussing Alien origin, because there are new things being written and I wasn't invited to speculate. That's all I can say, I believe. Except that I'm pretty certain it's Milburn, one L. Online sources disagree in either direction, but it was Milburn in the script...
-The Walmart thing... my editor and I decided that was a rumor. WY just had to go underground for awhile.
-Oh, and I came up with XX121. Honestly, I just put it in as a reminder to go back and put in whatever WY really called the things, but the higher ups decided that XX121 worked just fine. Apparently, that is now the creature's designation. Go figure!
Did I get everything so far? Thank you so much for asking, and for your kind words. I'll still be around for a few days, so please ask more... If I can answer, I will. Cheers!
Thanks for taking the time to answer all our questions Ms. Perry. I'm even more excited about the book now!
Seeing as how much you enjoyed writing the Space Beast segment, would you consider doing a full-length novel if you were asked to submit a pitch again? There appears to be a strong interest in Morse's book & story and the topic has been brought up quite a few times on the forums.
Were you privy to the Jack Paglen/Michael Green Prometheus 2 script drafts or did you simply try and avoid areas/topics that might conflict with the possible forthcoming Prometheus sequel?
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 05, 2014, 04:24:42 PM
Seeing as how much you enjoyed writing the Space Beast segment, would you consider doing a full-length novel if you were asked to submit a pitch again? There appears to be a strong interest in Morse's book & story and the topic has been brought up quite a few times on the forums.
I would gladly pitch for that book!
Another thumbs up (way up) from me if this book completely ignores the EU and the AvP movies. 8)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 05, 2014, 06:52:52 PM
Another thumbs up (way up) from me if this book completely ignores the EU and the AvP movies. 8)
She did mention that it does incorperate the Titan Publishing books, Isolation and Fire and Stone.
But I am willing to bet that it does ignore the old EU which was published from '88 to 2010.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 05, 2014, 07:11:37 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 05, 2014, 06:52:52 PM
Another thumbs up (way up) from me if this book completely ignores the EU and the AvP movies. 8)
She did mention that it does incorperate the Titan Publishing books, Isolation and Fire and Stone.
But I am willing to bet that it does ignore the old EU which was published from '88 to 2010.
It's pretty much confirmed that the "Old EU" is being tossed, as Sea of Sorrows (which is set 100+ years post-Resurrection) makes no reference to the Big Deletion or anything such as that.
I think it's important to remember that, as SM points out, this book is being written from the perspective of Weyland-Yutani, not the US government (or whichever future government Call gained access to the secret files of).
Anyway, questions! Welcome, Ms Perry and many thanks for contributing what you can for us here! :)
1: Was there any attempt to provide an explanation for why some Aliens have ridged heads and others don't? I've always assumed Cameron's theory made the most sense; that it was reflective of them being older. The old 'caste' theory never seemed to account for why we never saw combinations of the two designs in the same nests. Curious to know if this has been addressed.
2: Think this needs to be asked now... :) Any mentions of events from the 'Colonial Marines' game, like portraying Hicks' survival? Or should this now be officially assumed as 'non-canon'?
3: During research, was there anything which made you completely revise an assumption or theory you previously had about the creatures/events/characters depicted in the films?
4: Was there anything Fox was able to provide you, by way of research, which you found unexpected/surprising?
5: As the book essentially revolves around the creatures, did you contact the late HR Giger before he passed away?
6: Has undertaking a book in this style made you want to do something similar for, say, Predators or another property's villains?
7: If you were suddenly given the time, which section in this book would you like to expand upon the most?
8: Has there ever been a book you've been handed a brief for, which you've thought would be very by-the-numbers, only to find it much more inspiring/fascinating than you could have thought?
9: How much influence did you have over the layout and visual side of things? If you felt something could be better illustrated with a couple of pictures, rather than several hundred words, could you write a note for the editors and say something like, "NEED MAP OF HADLEY'S HOPE COLONY HERE" or "PICTURE OF A CGI DROPSHIP SHOOTING STUFF"?
10: Any news on whether this shall be available for Kindle and other electronic book formats?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 05, 2014, 07:58:32 PM
It's pretty much confirmed that the "Old EU" is being tossed, as Sea of Sorrows (which is set 100+ years post-Resurrection) makes no reference to the Big Deletion or anything such as that.
So Alien-Predator essentially got the Star Wars treatment.. I guess I can say.. that's where the franchise ends for me. I liked the old stuff, I liked the old stuff a lot so.. This is.. really disheartening.
You didn't seriously think they could make a book that could successfully incorporate 25 years worth of conflicting storylines?
Quote from: SM on Sep 05, 2014, 09:32:03 PM
You didn't seriously think they could make a book that could successfully incorporate 25 years worth of conflicting storylines?
I am not going to be kidding myself and say Yes.. No, that would be stupid. Things like this are inevitable in almost every franchise.
Doesn't mean I have to like the way they're handling it, but it is what it is and who can argue that? No one can.
Out of curiosity, where did this rumor about Fox rearranging the AVP continuity/canon come from?
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 09:47:05 PM
Out of curiosity, where did this rumor about Fox rearranging the AVP continuity/canon come from?
Probably around when details about Fire and Stone were being released, and interviews with Dark Horse writers. Also interviews with the Titan Publishing writers. A lot of sources seem to indicate that it points to all of this.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 09:47:05 PM
Out of curiosity, where did this rumor about Fox rearranging the AVP continuity/canon come from?
James Moore, the author of Sea of Sorrows, said that originally Fox had him write the novel with Alien 3 and Resurrection ignored, because Fox was considering retconning them. They later changed their minds. I can get you the links in a moment.
http://forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14610&p=226741&sid=57356f663dbb810419a5ce9c29f8d28f (http://forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14610&p=226741&sid=57356f663dbb810419a5ce9c29f8d28f)
QuoteIn fact it was originally planned that the book would ignore ALIEN 3 and ALIEN RESURRECTION. At that point Fox was very seriously contemplating just pretending that the whole third and fourth movies never existed. I was HAPPY to add them back in because, as flawed as the movies might be, I like parts of both.
So I get the feeling that this is all still fan conjecture, Fox hasn't officially stated anything?
See my edit. It actually seems fairly official. I don't see why Moore would make anything up.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 05, 2014, 07:58:32 PMIt's pretty much confirmed that the "Old EU" is being tossed, as Sea of Sorrows (which is set 100+ years post-Resurrection) makes no reference to the Big Deletion or anything such as that.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2F15yjdya.gif&hash=763203256627196b9df862d7d2dfe9a96421fe5c)
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 05, 2014, 09:51:16 PM
James Moore, the author of Sea of Sorrows, said that originally Fox had him write the novel with Alien 3 and Resurrection ignored, because Fox was considering retconning them. The later changed their minds. I can get you the links in a moment.
And add to the fact that Dark Horse president Mike Richardson said that they were basically starting over to fit the continuity of Prometheus, really adds weight to the point that the Alien-Predator franchises were either getting the New 52 treatment or, from the looks of it now.. how Disney did the mass retcon for Star Wars.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 05, 2014, 09:52:30 PM
So I get the feeling that this is all still fan conjecture, Fox hasn't officially stated anything?
I don't think at this point, they don't have to. So far everything is being made clear and cut.. I don't like it as much as you do, PredXeno but.. so far it's looking like the facts are there. If anything, Fox should do what Disney did and put all of that under a "LEGENDS" banner or declare them an alternate universe. But I doubt that would happen.
Quote from: SM on Sep 05, 2014, 09:32:03 PM
You didn't seriously think they could make a book that could successfully incorporate 25 years worth of conflicting storylines?
The problem with this line of thinking is it doesn't "conflict" nearly as much as some might lead others to believe.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 05, 2014, 09:56:03 PM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 05, 2014, 07:58:32 PMIt's pretty much confirmed that the "Old EU" is being tossed, as Sea of Sorrows (which is set 100+ years post-Resurrection) makes no reference to the Big Deletion or anything such as that.
http://i57.tinypic.com/15yjdya.gif
So many different kinds of Win going on, here. ;D
I'm actually shocked to hear that Fox was considering 'disowning' A3 and AR. Sure, AR was dumb, but they greenlighted the damn thing. And Alien3, love it or hate it, is too beautiful to be thrown under the bus like that.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 05, 2014, 11:00:25 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 05, 2014, 09:32:03 PM
You didn't seriously think they could make a book that could successfully incorporate 25 years worth of conflicting storylines?
The problem with this line of thinking is it doesn't "conflict" nearly as much as some might lead others to believe.
I daresay they didn't share that opinion.
I guess we'll see how it all plays out. :)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 05, 2014, 11:53:58 PM
I guess we'll see how it all plays out. :)
I don't think you're going to like how it plays out and I sense SM's mustache-twirling machinations to be responsible for it...
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 05, 2014, 09:57:10 PMIf anything, Fox should do what Disney did and put all of that under a "LEGENDS" banner or declare them an alternate universe.
They should declare it all "SMoted."
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 06, 2014, 12:49:03 AM
They should declare it all "SMoted."
Out of curiosity why shouldn't it be an alternate universe?
Who said it couldn't be?
The AVP films and A:CM better not be removed from canon. For those who know me, you will remember that I'm a criminal justice major; if Fox takes those titles off canon then it sets a VERY dangerous precedent.
It will ultimately dictate that no matter what, EVERY title can be subject to decanonization based exclusively on popularity, this may include Alien 5 and Prometheus 2 as well. We all know that countless fans would have been fine purging Alien 3 when it first came out but now that some time has passed, do those same fans still wish it?
If this corruption is allowed to foster then one day, a fan favorite title may join the list based exclusively on studio popularity, is this something any of us wants? The very fact that Fox considered purging Alien 3 and A:R is proof that this corruption is already starting to take root.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 06, 2014, 01:10:57 AM
The AVP films and A:CM better not be removed from canon. For those who know me, you will remember that I'm a criminal justice major; if Fox takes those titles off canon then it sets a VERY dangerous precedent.
What does that have to do something with a realm of fiction?
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 06, 2014, 01:10:57 AM
It will ultimately dictate that no matter what, EVERY title can be subject to decanonization based exclusively on popularity, this may include Alien 5 and Prometheus 2 as well. We all know that countless fans would have been fine purging Alien 3 when it first came out but now that some time has passed, do those same fans still wish it?
This is not the first time that some being removing from canon has been based exclusively on popularity. Highlander II was essentially ignored and for the most part rendered moot when Highlander III was released. Infact Highlander III is given the nickname Highlander: The Apology. And then there is the 1998 Godzilla movie which.. OFFICIALLY was retconned, rebranded and even had the titular creature renamed solely because of the take it took and the reaction it had. This really isn't anything new.
Do fans from 1992 still hate Alien 3? Unsurprisingly, yes.. Yes they still do. I've met several hardcore Alien fans and artists who were fans of the franchise and they are still bitter about Alien 3. I know one guy who does nothing but write scripts where Alien 3 is ignored because he wants Hicks and Newt back. I was surprised that Alien 3 and Resurrection were almost purged.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 06, 2014, 01:10:57 AM
If this corruption is allowed to foster then one day, a fan favorite title may join the list based exclusively on studio popularity, is this something any of us wants? The very fact that Fox considered purging Alien 3 and A:R is proof that this corruption is already starting to take root.
PredXeno, I feel you and I don't like either but.. This is kind of a common thing for many studios to do. I suppose we should've seen this coming some two, maybe even five years ago. The only thing we can do is either stick with our personal canon, voice our opinion in someway (though I'm sure they will fall on deaf ears) or just move on to a different franchise.
I'm strongly considering on going back to Turtles and Street Fighter. And I've been following the Alien-Predator franchise since I was six years old. Twenty years is a long and good run. Just wish it lasted a little longer.
QuoteThe AVP films and A:CM better not be removed from canon. For those who know me, you will remember that I'm a criminal justice major; if Fox takes those titles off canon then it sets a VERY dangerous precedent.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20120612231830%2Fborderlands%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F9%2F9b%2FWatch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png%2F500px-Watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png&hash=6fb241bc38aa288fc9f790ced235fd6bcbdccf3d)
Fox owns Alien, Predator and all related spinoffs and properties. They can do what they like, for good or ill. It doesn't matter if you're studying criminal law - there's no crime that's been committed.
The dangerous precedent I was referring to is that if Fox gets to erase canon then it will ultimately abuse this power, just look at LucasFilm. A few years ago, it was dictated that the movies were canon 1 and any Clone Wars TV show (microseries and main series) would be canon 2, now that has been completely altered with the microseries being cast out. The Force Unleashed was also a very popular storyline and many fans consider it canon (though some choose to ignore TFU2), now there are talks to throw that story out as well. In all likelihood, what with the new Star Wars trilogy and the multiple standalone films SW fans are promised in the coming years, it is quite likely that the award-winning Clone Wars series, which is considered among the highest canon pier, will be nullified and replaced for future titles as well (just like its predecessors).
If AVP fans give Fox the same power to nullify canon, then the exact same disaster will occur in this franchise as well. In their desperation to maintain a single canon (one that is affiliated with popular views), fans are not realizing the doom they are guiding this beloved series to; can you imagine a world where Fox allows the newest film/game to be canon, then a few years later nullify that title for the next newest title, and then a few years later nullify the new title for the next newest title? At some point, Fox will realize that it doesn't need fans to act as the middleman anymore and can simply nullify canon at will (as LucasFilm is now doing), this calamity has already occurred before and we can't let it take this franchise as well; as a fan of this franchise, you can't tell me you don't view this sort of careless behavior toward the canon of a beloved series to be some sort of moral crime against it (if not a legal one).
QuoteThe dangerous precedent I was referring to is that if Fox gets to erase canon then it will ultimately abuse this power, just look at LucasFilm.
Disney owns Lucasfilm now and with new film being made - they get to call the shots.
QuoteIf AVP fans give Fox the same power to nullify canon, then the exact same disaster will occur in this franchise as well.
What makes you think fans are in any position to
give Fox anything?
QuoteIn their desperation to maintain a single canon (one that is affiliated with popular views), fans are not realizing the doom they are guiding this beloved series to; can you imagine a world where Fox allows the newest film/game to be canon, then a few years later nullify that title for the next newest title, and then a few years later nullify the new title for the next newest title?
Again, fans don't guide anything beyond paying for product. As for the 'imagine a world' bit - we don't need to imagine it.
QuoteAt some point, Fox will realize that it doesn't need fans to act as the middleman anymore and can simply nullify canon at will
They did that over 20 years ago when they made a movie that made a bunch of comics completely redundant. Then they did it again, when they made another movie that made all the rest of the comics completely redundant. I don't know what you're talking about with fans being 'middlemen'?
Quoteas a fan of this franchise, you can't tell me you don't view this sort of careless behavior toward the canon of a beloved series to be some sort of moral crime against it (if not a legal one).
Why should I? The direction they're taking more or less conforms to the views I've held for over 20 years.
Even if they didn't conform to my views - I'd still maintain my views. It's just that Fox's would be different. You could get all melodramatic and say there's a moral crime - some might even agree. But as long as Fox owns the whole shebang, there's no legal problem and they call the shots. Not you and not me.
(Oh okay maybe a little bit me).
One thing is for sure.. Xenopedia is going to have to overhaul their pages a bit. Assuming Quarax or Leigh Burne get a hold of the book and look at the timeline. Or.. they'll just leave the pages as is and have everything posted for sake of completion.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 06, 2014, 01:10:57 AM
The AVP films and A:CM better not be removed from canon. For those who know me, you will remember that I'm a criminal justice major; if Fox takes those titles off canon then it sets a VERY dangerous precedent.
It will ultimately dictate that no matter what, EVERY title can be subject to decanonization based exclusively on popularity, this may include Alien 5 and Prometheus 2 as well. We all know that countless fans would have been fine purging Alien 3 when it first came out but now that some time has passed, do those same fans still wish it?
If this corruption is allowed to foster then one day, a fan favorite title may join the list based exclusively on studio popularity, is this something any of us wants? The very fact that Fox considered purging Alien 3 and A:R is proof that this corruption is already starting to take root.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2F2mpyl8x.jpg&hash=8cb289704006ebf64cb7f399ae008e7f48182df0)
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 06, 2014, 02:09:07 AM
One thing is for sure.. Xenopedia is going to have to overhaul their pages a bit. Assuming Quarax or Leigh Burne get a hold of the book and look at the timeline. Or.. they'll just leave the pages as is and have everything posted for sake of completion.
What did Wookieepedia do when Disney decanonised stuff?
Quote from: SM on Sep 06, 2014, 02:20:13 AM
What did Wookieepedia do when Disney decanonised stuff?
They had slapped on a label called "legends" and then added category tabs which had previous canon information in a separate tab. So basically, all the canon stuff which was kept is abbreviated, where as everything else is in a separate tab and had legends slapped on the top.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 06, 2014, 02:09:07 AM
One thing is for sure.. Xenopedia is going to have to overhaul their pages a bit. Assuming Quarax or Leigh Burne get a hold of the book and look at the timeline. Or.. they'll just leave the pages as is and have everything posted for sake of completion.
Yeah, a lot of our pages on stuff from the
AVP films, novels, and comics aren't very good.
Quote from: Quarax on Sep 06, 2014, 02:22:29 AM
Yeah, a lot of our pages on stuff from the AVP films, novels, and comics aren't very good.
I actually left a topic on the forum which no one answered but now, I doubt that it matters.
Assuming you or Leigh Burne get this book, what kind of mass changes can we expect for Xenopedia? If any changes are going to be made whatsoever?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 06, 2014, 02:22:13 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 06, 2014, 02:20:13 AM
What did Wookieepedia do when Disney decanonised stuff?
They had slapped on a label called "legends" and then added category tabs which had previous canon information in a separate tab. So basically, all the canon stuff which was kept is abbreviated, where as everything else is in a separate tab and had legends slapped on the top.
Simple enough solution.
SM, clear your damn PM inbox.
Geez, alright...
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 06, 2014, 12:49:03 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 05, 2014, 11:53:58 PM
I guess we'll see how it all plays out. :)
I don't think you're going to like how it plays out and I sense SM's mustache-twirling machinations to be responsible for it...
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 05, 2014, 11:53:58 PM
I guess we'll see how it all plays out. :)
Looks good , But where , one can purchase The Weyland-Yutani Report Collectors Edition . I have browsed on Amazon ; Now information as yet , So where could one purchase a copy ?..
The Collector's Edition is being sold through Sideshow, it's available on their website.
is there a significantly cheaper version of this book?
i might have to wait for the pages to be put on the internet somewhere
yes, let's talk pirating while the author of this book is in this thread GUY
Hi, everyone! If you didn't post a question to me, you may want to skip this whole comment. I tend to ramble. :)
A general note on canon, which may answer a bunch of questions--bear with me if you know this already, as I'm sure many of you do: it would be all but impossible to create a consistent universe for any franchise, or explain every contradiction therein. The Aliens universe has movies, books, comics, video games, more movies, etc. Editors quit or move on, publishing rights change hands, directors have their own ideas (and since movies are where the big bucks are, they will inevitably win), writers don't have time to read a tenth of everything, and there are ALWAYS financial considerations... it's inevitable, if a movie makes money, more of them get made. If one or more of the sequels tanks financially, or is so badly executed that fans hate it, the mother company--in this case, Fox--is likely to politely ignore it, and focus on the cool franchise aspects for the next project, which is not always successful. This makes canon flexible, as contradictory as that seems. I don't have an inside line to Fox or anything, but have worked in a number of universes (Aliens, AvP, Predator, Star Trek, Resident Evil, etc.) and I find that this is usually the case.
predexo, watching something you felt to be canon getting shot down is rough--it sucks to have one's choices made for them--but thankfully, in this day and age, we get to keep copies of the things we care about. Whether or not someone else says it's legitimate, who cares? That shouldn't change how you feel about the movie/book/whatever. It's your right to enjoy what you enjoy, and if the Man makes bad decisions, it's your right to take your money elsewhere.
Other stuff:
- At the moment, Aliens has its own universe, Predator has its own, AvP has its own. That may change, but again, I don't know anything. For this project, I was strictly in the Aliens universe.
- Hicks does mention in passing that there were already some Marines at Hadley's Hope. That is a reference to one of the new novels, I was asked specifically to put it in.
- Would I write a book narrated by Morse? Sure, if asked. Morse is hilarious.
- I didn't know anything about the new Prometheus movie, except that I was asked not to speculate (much) about the alien's origins in this book. Well, I know one thing, but if I spilled, I might be flayed alive.
- For the timeline, I was told to always defer to the movies as canon, and occasionally the movie novelizations for additional detail. So, comics, original works, and games were mostly left out, except for a few references I was specifically asked to put in, to help promote some of the newer projects. I wasn't asked to exclude anything. I'm not actually sure how it finally turned out, as there were several uber fan continuity checkers hired on to look for mistakes.
- Using the actor names for the characters was an Aliens thing, so when I had characters with only a last name listed, I put in the actor's first name. I didn't know if Fox would sign off on it, but they did. My editor, Chris, who was awesome, BTW, also thought it was a good idea.
Xenomorphine, lots of questions! You get your own section. I'll go by number. I would cut and paste the questions, but last time I did something like that I totally messed it up and looked like an idiot. Hopefully you'll remember the questions from context.
1. Let's see... alien shape is based on the host's DNA, you already know that. We didn't discuss age-related morphological changes in this book. As SM mentioned earlier in a comment, this book is a Company report, and while they have plenty of theories, they don't know everything about the aliens...
2. ...Or Hicks! I'm not privy to everything canon--there are so many projects connected to the universe, contradictions occur all of the time--but as I may have said earlier, the editors that work in established universes try to focus on what really works, ignoring stuff that won't support their project. We're always struggling (writers, editors, game makers) to define and make sense of an ever changing universe. Every new movie adds or contradicts. The universe is so big, there's a lot of room to just make up new stuff, which happens plenty.
3. I've been doing Aliens related novelizations since I started writing, 20+ years ago, so nothing surprised me, really, though I had to take my vague assumptions and firm 'em up with some actual science. This was a pretty research-intensive project. I learned some neat stuff, though, mostly about insects.
4. Fox wasn't involved until after I wrote the first draft... I was asked to include some references to the new Titan books and the new game, asked to take out a detail here or there for style's sake, but nothing unexpected. The Fox contact, Josh, was very nice, and super enthusiastic.
5. I did not contact Mr. Giger... again, this is a Weyland-Yutani report, not a definitive encyclopedia on aliens. Plus, I wouldn't have had the nerve!
6. Yes. Writing for big franchise universes is tough-- there's so much that you have to try not to contradict--but Predators are wicked cool. I think if this book does well, Fox is open to doing something similar in the Predator and/or AvP universes, but again, don't quote me. No promises were made! :) As a mostly work-for-hire writer, I'll write whatever... Aliens, Xena, My Little Pony. Preference doesn't really play a part, and I'm not at a level where I get to pitch book ideas.
7. Hmm... If I had to do more, probably Resurrection, just for symmetry's sake. I was not a fan of the movie, and of course, the USM ran the experiment, not the Company, so they (WY) were very dismissive of the whole thing. There's less detail there than elsewhere. If I got to pick for fun, I'd do more with the prisoners on Fury 161. Just cuz.
8. No. I've had to write fast (did a novelization once in 21 days; for me, that's fast) and have certainly at times been sloppy, especially at the beginning of my career, but if I couldn't appreciate the source material, understand what makes it magical to some people, then I wouldn't be very good at my job. I know that paint by the numbers writers exist, but I don't know any personally. To write contract work professionally, one must always embrace the inspiration, IMHO. If I can't, I'm at least a decent enough writer to fake it.:) Luckily, I'm an Aliens fan.
9. I had some influence over layout, but in a very roundabout way. My editor sent me some of the movie images, then I came up with a general script. He and I went back and forth on that, trying to strike the right tone, trying to give format and opportunity to the artists. The artists made art, and it went back to us, finding or writing text that would fit, captioning things. It was a very interactive experience. So I played a part in the final look, but really, a very small one near the beginning.
10. Once I turn in a final draft, and all of the last minute touches have been made, I have NO IDEA what happens next. Some writers, presumably the smart ones, find out everything they can about when their work comes out and how much and what format; me, I like to write, and not much else. I'm a terrible business person. I'd love to see it on my Kindle, though!
Sorry if I talk too much, everyone. I appreciate your questions, and will check back in sometime this weekend, to see if there are more. If I missed your query, sorry, and please feel free to ask again; I forget stuff. And thank you for inviting me to share!
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 06, 2014, 06:47:03 AM
Other stuff:
- At the moment, Aliens has its own universe, Predator has its own, AvP has its own. That may change, but again, I don't know anything. For this project, I was strictly in the Aliens universe.
...So there IS something of an Alien-Predator Multiverse after all? And people said I was crazy when I tossed around the idea on a thread! But as you said, it is for the moment and maybe subject to change so... This kind of gives me some hope.
Quote
predexo, watching something you felt to be canon getting shot down is rough--it sucks to have one's choices made for them--but thankfully, in this day and age, we get to keep copies of the things we care about. Whether or not someone else says it's legitimate, who cares? That shouldn't change how you feel about the movie/book/whatever. It's your right to enjoy what you enjoy, and if the Man makes bad decisions, it's your right to take your money elsewhere.
Thanks sd perry, your words make me feel better; sorry for ranting a bit on your thread, I just don't want to see many of the franchise's stories (especially yours ;)) get replaced by new stories that will probably follow the exact same fate. Enough about that though, I am really looking forward to your Wey-Yu Report and I hope to get the Limited Edition, have no idea how I'm going to pay for it though. :D
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 06, 2014, 08:43:53 AM
Thanks sd perry, your words make me feel better; sorry for ranting a bit on your thread, I just don't want to see many of the franchise's stories (especially yours ;)) get replaced by new stories that will probably follow the exact same fate.
Dude, I don't think you have to worry about that since she did mention that each of the three franchises were essentially their own separate universes. It's kind of like what I said in the multiverse thread, when you think about it. At least.. I think that's what is now going on here as far as what SD Perry said. I think the Xenopedia wikia should consider that.
Again, thanks for clearing some things up and answering our questions, SD. Also I want to say thank you to you for co-writing AvP: Prey with your father, without it.. I wouldn't have passed 7th grade literature and made it to 8th grade in my years of middle school back in 2001 to 2002. Also, AvP: War had also helped high school fly faster back then, especially on bad days. Many thanks!
I hear there will be a standard edition out, eventually, which will cost a lot less.
I noticed in your interview you said you used "wiki sites" for research; does that include Xenopedia, and, if it does, is that where you got the G1 designation from? :)
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 06, 2014, 07:12:11 AM
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 06, 2014, 06:47:03 AM
Other stuff:
- At the moment, Aliens has its own universe, Predator has its own, AvP has its own. That may change, but again, I don't know anything. For this project, I was strictly in the Aliens universe.
...So there IS something of an Alien-Predator Multiverse after all? And people said I was crazy when I tossed around the idea on a thread! But as you said, it is for the moment and maybe subject to change so... This kind of gives me some hope.
It's a licensing thing - the USCM Tech Manual was only licensed to use material from the first 2 movies, for example. Some video games are only licensed to use stuff from the Alien movies, or the Predator movies, but not AvP. In the grand scheme of fictional universes, though, they're all one singular universe, though.
A good example is the upcoming Fire and Stone comics - we know for a fact that although there's 4 separate storylines (Aliens, Predator, AvP, and Prometheus), they all happen in the same "universe" and influence each other.
Out of curiosity, how many here are buying the $325 limited edition? I REALLY want it but may end up not buying it due to the price, however if other people get it then I may conform to peer pressure and buy it too. So please, put the peer pressure on me. ;)
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 07, 2014, 07:26:06 AM
Out of curiosity, how many here are buying the $325 limited edition?
I am not buying it because I CANNOT buy it due to the fact that within a week, I have to start packing for another move and so far I haven't picked out a place to live yet due to eviction, and the fact that 325 dollars is really money I can't spend as money at this point in my life as well as my family's is something which is top priority.
Food and shelter have to come first.
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 06, 2014, 06:47:03 AMpredexo, watching something you felt to be canon getting shot down is rough--it sucks to have one's choices made for them--but thankfully, in this day and age, we get to keep copies of the things we care about. Whether or not someone else says it's legitimate, who cares? That shouldn't change how you feel about the movie/book/whatever. It's your right to enjoy what you enjoy, and if the Man makes bad decisions, it's your right to take your money elsewhere.
Very well said, this is exactly how I feel about it. Just because something is declared outside the official 'story', that doesn't mean I have to suddenly stop enjoying it.
Incidentally, thank you for answering all these questions we have, it's certainly appreciated!
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 06, 2014, 02:25:50 AMAssuming you or Leigh Burne get this book, what kind of mass changes can we expect for Xenopedia? If any changes are going to be made whatsoever?
I will absolutely be getting a copy, aside from anything else I'm very excited to give it a read. I really hope the standard edition is a more reasonable price, because I don't want to have to justify spending £200 on a book...
As for any potential changes to the site, I can't really answer that until I've seen what's in the report :)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 06, 2014, 09:44:53 PM
It's a licensing thing - the USCM Tech Manual was only licensed to use material from the first 2 movies, for example. Some video games are only licensed to use stuff from the Alien movies, or the Predator movies, but not AvP. In the grand scheme of fictional universes, though, they're all one singular universe, though.
The CMTM was written before Alien: Resurrection was released but it did in fact use material from Alien 3.
Aliens: Colonial Marines and Alien: Isolation were both licensed to use material from Alien, Aliens and Alien 3. However both games also feature elements (albeit very small nods) from Prometheus. A:CM also featured the hypersleep tubes from A:R.
Quote from: sd perry on Sep 06, 2014, 07:32:12 PM
I hear there will be a standard edition out, eventually, which will cost a lot less.
Glad to hear it.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 07, 2014, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 06, 2014, 09:44:53 PM
It's a licensing thing - the USCM Tech Manual was only licensed to use material from the first 2 movies, for example. Some video games are only licensed to use stuff from the Alien movies, or the Predator movies, but not AvP. In the grand scheme of fictional universes, though, they're all one singular universe, though.
The CMTM was written before Alien: Resurrection was released but it did in fact use material from Alien 3
Technically... it didn't. ;)
It makes really loose, offhand references to 'Alien3', but you'll notice that the book doesn't mention any specific names or places related to 'Alien3', nor does it mention specific events. There's an interview posted online somewhere with Lee Brimmicombe-Wood where he explains that he was only allowed to use material from 'Aliens' when writing the book, and the only reason there's even data from 'Alien' in the book (the Nostromo, the Narcissus) is because 'Aliens' mentions it early in the movie.
Edit-- found the interview (http://www.alienexperience.com/forum/index.php?topic=2848.0). Here's the relevant bit:
QuoteQ: How did Fox get involved, and at what point did this occur?
A: I presume Fox got involved when my publisher negotiated the license. Much to my chagrin I soon discovered that Boxtree had only bought a license for the second movie. That was frustrating, as I'd hoped to fill out the book with material from the first and third movies. However, when Fox's licensing division in Beverley Hills began to read drafts of the manual they had kittens. A whole section of the final chapter referenced the events of the third movie, and went into all sorts of detail about Alien morphology. That had to be scrapped because it wasn't covered by the license. In the end I had to cut the final chapter down by half and restrict mention of the third flick to an oblique reference.
Fortunately, Fox were prepared to stretch things a little with regards to the first movie. As various events and items from Alien, such as the Nostromo, were mentioned in the sequel, I was allowed to drop those into the book. But a big article on the escape pod from the third movie, done originally for the magazine, was left out.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 07, 2014, 01:12:40 PM
Quote
But a big article on the escape pod from the third movie, done originally for the magazine, was left out.
Really? Because my copy of the CMTM has almost 3 pages devoted to the Alien 3 EEV/escape pod. ???
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 07, 2014, 01:26:30 PMReally? Because my copy of the CMTM has almost 3 pages devoted to the Alien 3 EEV/escape pod. ???
Yeah, I think he must be mistaken, because that article is definitely in the book.
Do you have the Titan 2012 edition of the book HuDa or an older one?
The reprint.
Same here. Could be that it was added back in the reprint although I doubt it. Maybe someone with an original copy could confirm?
"- Hicks does mention in passing that there were already some Marines at Hadley's Hope. That is a reference to one of the new novels, I was asked specifically to put it in." SDP
Wait what? did I miss something? I have not read the new books from Titan yet, is there yet another group of Marines sent to Hadley's Hope? Are they really sent before Hick's group?
Are they turning the invasion of Hadley's Hope into another action "We don't leave Marines behind" piece?
All other material makes it look like a desperate fight to survive for the colonists, more of a horror story.
What's next are we going to be told their were Marines on the Nostromo?
Quote from: DemonicD13 on Sep 07, 2014, 02:03:10 PMWait what? did I miss something? I have not read the new books from Titan yet, is there yet another group of Marines sent to Hadley's Hope? Are they really sent before Hick's group?
It's referring to the third book (not released yet),
River of Pain.
I'm assuming obviously, but I figured it doesn't literally mean another squad was sent in before Gorman and co., but that there were a few Marines posted there for security while the colony got established. That seems pretty reasonable.
Of course I could be wrong and there could be another entire unit gone MIA.
I thought book 2 was set after Alien Resurrection? Is their any consistence in these new novels?
I hope your right about just having a few Marines stationed there, otherwise I'd say this is getting a little ridiculous.
They've released them out of chronological order.
I partly suspect it might be because the third will reference the events of Alien: Isolation, and so they've held it back until after the game has come out. But that's just a wild guess.
The previews for Dark Horse's new Alien comic series also show Colonial Marines on LV-426 prior to Aliens.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 07, 2014, 01:43:52 PM
Same here. Could be that it was added back in the reprint although I doubt it. Maybe someone with an original copy could confirm?
I'll check my copy when I get home, but I don't recall anything about the EEV in my copy and I've got a first edition. If they did add the EEV article back in, that's a pretty good reason for me to buy the reprint. My first edition copy is in readable but heavily used condition, although I did get it signed by Lance Henriksen so I'm in no rush to get rid of it.
Technically, there could have been marines in the colony acting as security guards, considering how WY owns the corps and uses them as their buzz boys. We don't know whether there's a platoon or just a squad of marines though.
if REMF Marines hold the same connotation that it does now then these Marines are most likely the kind of Marines that would stay on base. Maybe to facilitate information or repairs to combat arms Marines to or from battle.
Spoiler
In the comic sequence that shows them a couple get whacked pretty easily not showing a real flair for combat.
But then again REMF might have a totally different meaning in the future.
I don't like the idea that WY has that much power to station Marines where they want them to go. WY or its employees wouldn't be trying to sneak things past ICC quarantine if they could control military bodies.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 07, 2014, 04:44:22 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 07, 2014, 01:43:52 PM
Same here. Could be that it was added back in the reprint although I doubt it. Maybe someone with an original copy could confirm?
I'll check my copy when I get home, but I don't recall anything about the EEV in my copy and I've got a first edition. If they did add the EEV article back in, that's a pretty good reason for me to buy the reprint. My first edition copy is in readable but heavily used condition, although I did get it signed by Lance Henriksen so I'm in no rush to get rid of it.
Its in the original CM Technical Manual too,the only difference from the Magazine is the name of the EEV, Type 337 in the book,in the Magazine BD-409.
Quote from: gabgrave on Sep 07, 2014, 05:21:13 PM
Technically, there could have been marines in the colony acting as security guards, considering how WY owns the corps and uses them as their buzz boys. We don't know whether there's a platoon or just a squad of marines though.
WY doesn't actually own the USCM corps. Aliens has a non-commissioned officer and lowly "grunt" override a Junior WY Executive and Special Projects Director.
The USCM corp are a branch of the armed forces of a sovereign nation, not PMC's.
Pages 127 to 129 of the CMTM talk about the EEV.
Does this new book even tell us anything about the EEV? Last thing I want is a repeat of the CMTM's technical mistakes.
Wait, so are both the original and reprint versions of the CMTM the same or are there differences? ???
No differences. The EEV stuff was always there. As Xenoegg said, the version in the CMTM is an edit of the piece that appeared in the DH UK Aliens mag.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 07, 2014, 11:12:14 PM
Wait, so are both the original and reprint versions of the CMTM the same or are there differences? ???
I'm pretty sure the only differences are that the reprint has an extra page (probably just legal stuff) and the original has more colors.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 07, 2014, 10:23:32 PM
Does this new book even tell us anything about the EEV? Last thing I want is a repeat of the CMTM's technical mistakes.
What sort of technical mistakes?
Also including the EEV still isn't a direct A3 "reference", since the book doesn't have any images from A3. It's just an article about the escape pods that the Sulaco happens to have.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 07, 2014, 11:50:01 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 07, 2014, 10:23:32 PM
Does this new book even tell us anything about the EEV? Last thing I want is a repeat of the CMTM's technical mistakes.
What sort of technical mistakes?
Deja vu... (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=49604.msg1818848#msg1818848)
Fair enough, yeah I wouldn't mind seeing that kind of stuff fixed. :)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 07, 2014, 05:55:27 PM
WY doesn't actually own the USCM corps. Aliens has a non-commissioned officer and lowly "grunt" override a Junior WY Executive and Special Projects Director.
The USCM corp are a branch of the armed forces of a sovereign nation, not PMC's.
I'm pretty sure it was stated in one of the novels that "The Company owes the Corps." Doesn't mean that they literally work for the company, but if the company has a hand in the governing of the sovereign nation, and WY is stated to be THE company in the earth sphere, it can 'influence' the higher level decisions of a sovereign nation. Sure, they stepped over Bruke in the heat of the moment, but if he had the chance to contact company HQ the marines would be jumping before they can ask how high. It's about the same situation as an UN force.
The Company has no official jurisdiction over the USCM. They can be called upon to protect US interests in space - and while WY is not only global, but interstellar - we might assume the the UA/ US arm of the company oversaw Hadley in conjunction with the ECA.
The Company has their own military personnel as seen at the end of Alien3.
If WY influenced anything it would be behind the scenes. Lubing some top Generals bank account so that he might send assets one way or another.
A grunt isn't going to give a good goddamn what some suit says to him.
Yup.
In AVP2010, Karl Bishop Weyland reveals that the Marines source their weapons from Wey-Yu and that the Corps and Weyland are "old friends"; this would imply that Wey-Yu may have some controlling interest in the Corp, it would certainly explain how the Marines are always around when the Company needs them.
But like so many inconsistencies in non-film sources - that isn't supported by A:CM.
Those crazy Weylands. I mean Bishops. I mean... nevermind.
Quote from: SM on Sep 08, 2014, 06:57:58 AM
But like so many inconsistencies in non-film sources - that isn't supported by A:CM.
Alternate universes, SM. Separate but parallel alternate universes.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 08, 2014, 04:26:19 AMIf WY influenced anything it would be behind the scenes. Lubing some top Generals bank account so that he might send assets one way or another.
Exactly this.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 08, 2014, 07:25:18 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 08, 2014, 06:57:58 AM
But like so many inconsistencies in non-film sources - that isn't supported by A:CM.
Alternate universes, SM. Separate but parallel alternate universes.
Perhaps for you.
It just doesn't work that way for us so far. In fact, they've always actively been shown to retcon things to fix - Hicks and Newt into Billie and Wilks, Res with the Big Deletion. I'm not against multi-verse. I like different continuities, it allows for some degree of flexibility but it's just not how they've done the A/v/P/P EU so far.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 08, 2014, 08:16:51 AM
I'm not against multi-verse.
That's.. surprising to hear you of all people say that. I would've assumed you be against it. I have to ask you this one, Hicks but precisely why are not against the idea of an Alien-Predator multiverse?
If you ask me, I think this is something Fox should implement. I mean, Halloween has alternate timelines, Godzilla has an implied multiverse.. Why shouldn't Alien-Predator?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 08, 2014, 08:16:51 AM
I like different continuities, it allows for some degree of flexibility but it's just not how they've done the A/v/P/P EU so far.
Exactly how certain can we be that 25 years along with two crossovers of storytelling is jettisoned out? I mean I know you brought up the whole Wilkes and Billie, as well as the Big Deletion retcons. Unless I am taking SD's statement out of context, and I am hoping that I am not, but exactly how certain are we that this is a major retconning similar to what Star Wars went through and not a whole new universe?
As far as I can tell/ say, Fox are actively trying to form a single continuity across multiple media, rather than letting the comics do their thing, games do their thing, and books do something different again.
I don't believe you'll ever hear Fox actively categorise the media that predates this as 'Classic' or 'Legacy' or 'Multiverse' though, and the writers themselves aren't interested in such categories either.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 08, 2014, 08:35:45 AM
That's.. surprising to hear you of all people say that. I would've assumed you be against it. I have to ask you this one, Hicks but precisely why are not against the idea of an Alien-Predator multiverse?
I've been a sci-fi fan since I can remember. Multiple universes and continuities are no strangers to me. I'm not against one because I feel that A/v/P/P is missing that unified feeling that I felt the earlier Bantam books/DH comics had. And I liked that feeling. I love the way the Titan, DH and CA efforts are shaping up in being connected. I'd prefer they just said it's a new continuity and crack on with it.
QuoteIf you ask me, I think this is something Fox should implement. I mean, Halloween has alternate timelines, Godzilla has an implied multiverse.. Why shouldn't Alien-Predator?
I think it should. I think it'd make things cleaner for the new authors having a brand new continuity. It wouldn't harm the old one because it still exists and there's nothing stopping me from enjoying it - even if the new efforts wouldn't include anything from them.
But that's just not the approach Fox is taking.
What approach?
Retconing to fit in with one big universe - well, it's the approach that has always been taken like with the Big Deletion.
I like that an effort is being made to keep all the new media - Isolation, Fire & Stone, Titan novels - in one coherent continuity but without some official comment (even if just from DH or etc) on them being a new continuity, the old stuff is always going to be there and associated with and the cause of potential issues.
Besides the alien earth war Problem, we had since prometheus the Problem that the SJs are no elephant like creatures which was shown in the older comics and avp r ;).
Quote from: SM on Sep 08, 2014, 09:49:06 AM
As far as I can tell/ say, Fox are actively trying to form a single continuity across multiple media, rather than letting the comics do their thing, games do their thing, and books do something different again.
It's always been that way, FOX is just being more proactive in keeping things unified now.
The way they "tried" to keep things together was lazy and halfassed.
Wilks having Drake, Vasquez, and Hudson in his squad. The Aliens still being on earth post Earth War and somehow the deletion of technology stops them from existing.......nevermind the fact that 200 years isn't enough time for people of earth to forget anything. People aren't going to stop telling stories or keeping records just because their computers went down. Never mind the fact that all these other corporations had caches of aliens off planet anyways. And a memory eating computer virus wouldn't affect old technology that didn't have computers in them. Took them back to the stoneage. Right.
The Weyland family owns the corps yet they need armies of personal security, mercenaries, and combat androids in Alien 3, AvP 2, AvP 2010, A: CM, to pull off their plans.
The problem was and has been (maybe not now but I have my doubts) been that for the EU Fox has never really cared about their EU concerning Aliens franchise. If they did they would have multiversed it along time ago or not come up with some of the stories they did.
Everybody looking for an Alien needed to only go to earth. Or LV1201. Or one of a dozen other overrun planets.
The EU has always been its own thing for me.
Here's one of the artists: https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-R-Mullaney-illustration/106948306047099 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-R-Mullaney-illustration/106948306047099)
I'm not sure Fox really is fixing AVP canon as many think, this isn't the first time they tried to reboot the series, all one needs to do is look up John Shirley's interviews on this forum for Predator: Forever Midnight. Fox wanted to reboot the franchise with its new line of DH Press novels but nothing ever came of it.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 08, 2014, 07:29:28 PM
I'm not sure Fox really is fixing AVP canon as many think, this isn't the first time they tried to reboot the series, all one needs to do is look up John Shirley's interviews on this forum for Predator: Forever Midnight. Fox wanted to reboot the franchise with its new line of DH Press novels but nothing ever came of it.
That much is true, but I also don't remember Fox trying to promote the hell out of that attempted reboot as well.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 08, 2014, 04:26:19 AM
If WY influenced anything it would be behind the scenes. Lubing some top Generals bank account so that he might send assets one way or another.
A grunt isn't going to give a good goddamn what some suit says to him.
Would've been interesting to see how different the "nuke the site from orbit" conversation may have been if Gorman had been conscious at the time. Ripley probably got lucky that it was a rank-and-file grunt who was suddenly in charge of the mission, versus a pushover like Gorman or some other bought-and-paid-for officer.
I never got the impression that Gorman was bought though. Just an inexperienced LT that Burke might've pulled some strings to get in place so he could try and manipulate or maybe just an inexperienced LT like most platoons have already.
He wasn't leadership material but he did seem to have decent moral fiber when it came down to it.
Plus contrary to popular relief you only have to follow LEGAL orders. Bringing an alien specimen back trying to avoid ICC quarantine would strike me as illegal so any Marine could've stopped Gorman if he made that mistake.
If I were writing the bio for Gorman, I'd say his daddy was a moderately powerful exec at the company, but generally regarded by the corps as a dickhead with a silver spoon (and a corncob) up his ass. Burke then pulled some strings with a USCM colonel that was in the company's pocket and got him assigned to the mission as a favor to Gorman Sr.
Yeah, I read a lot into Burke's line: "You had your chance, Gorman!"
According to the novelization, the reason an inexperienced Gorman was put in charge was because the higher-ups were too cheap to get someone better.
I thought it implied Gorman engineered it because of his inexperience. The CMTM said the same.
I didn't get the impression that Gorman was in a position to engineer much of anything. I figured he just was the beneficiary of nepotism and honestly wanted a chance to prove himself, but he couldn't help being a product of his upbringing.
Service personal don't get paid by the hour. Most likely the top brass thought it was a downed transmitter or something, so why not just send in the green lieutenant and a bunch of scraps.
That would have been my impression as well if it weren't for the vibe I got any time I saw Burke interacting with Gorman. It wouldn't surprise me if Gorman was instructed not to ask too many questions and to look the other way if it seemed like Burke was up to something shady.
Mods, feel free to split this discussion if it veers too far off-topic. I don't know how much of this is relevant to the book.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 08, 2014, 08:56:52 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Gorman was instructed not to ask too many questions and to look the other way if it seemed like Burke was up to something shady.
Burke was acting on his own though. The company wasn't aware of Burke's machinations.
An LT is the private of the officer corps with college education. A 2nd lt is going to be very inexperienced and it usually takes them awhile as a first lt before they start finding their footing.
I've never met a 2nd lt that was worth a damn that wasn't enlisted first.
Gorman's cluelessness just happened to be a byproduct of the way we have our system set up. You are basically putting a college educated private in charge and saying run dis shit.
This looking at it from the military perspective.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 08, 2014, 09:04:02 PM
Burke was acting on his own though. The company wasn't aware of Burke's machinations.
It's deja vu all over again. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=44709.msg1833381#msg1833381) Mind you, I'm not saying that whoever gave Gorman his marching orders was in on the whole thing, just the part about ignoring Burke's shenanigans.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 08, 2014, 09:08:37 PMThis looking at it from the military perspective.
And I'd agree if Burke's line hadn't given me the impression that it went deeper than that.
In response to the question of whether or not we'll be buying the Report, there's no way I'm spending $300+ on it, but I will pick up the cheaper standard version when it comes out.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 08, 2014, 09:09:00 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 08, 2014, 09:04:02 PM
Burke was acting on his own though. The company wasn't aware of Burke's machinations.
It's deja vu all over again. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=44709.msg1833381#msg1833381) Mind you, I'm not saying that whoever gave Gorman his marching orders was in on the whole thing, just the part about give Burke a wide berth.
Burke was a junior executive in the Company so he might have had a certain amount of pull himself. Enough to reinstate Ripley at the very least. Or even to give Gorman's bank account a lube job.
But I would prefer to go with Occam's razor rather than cooking up wild conspiracy theories. If the company was involved why not just send in their own PMC's? Why involve a third-party at all? Before they arrived at LV-426 even Burke wasn't sure if the comm blackout had anything to do with his request to check out Ripley's co-ordinates.
The way Burke phrased it, it sounded like it was someone else at the company who agreed to pick up Ripley's flight contract. Maybe they did it at Burke's behest with no questions asked. I don't know. I'm not saying that whoever did it was in on it. If anyone was in on it to any degree, I'd say it was someone in the bioweapons division who was expecting a specimen of "something interesting."
The company didn't have free rein over the colony. They owned a lot of the assets there and employed a lot of the settlers, but the colony itself was governed by the ECA.
I'm not saying this is the case, but that assumes that W-Y doesn't have a lot of pull with the ECA. It could have been "governed" by the ECA on paper, but in practice W-Y could have been running the show.
Like, let's say for a moment that Burke's scheme worked and he got an Alien through quarantine. W-Y has a new toy to play with, but there's still an ECA-governed colony that's been wiped out by an exploded atmosphere processor and 158 dead colonists. Someone's obviously going to start asking questions.
To be honest I always got the impression that "The Company" was so powerful that they could do whatever they felt like without any real repercussions from "the government".
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 08, 2014, 04:59:14 PM
The way they "tried" to keep things together was lazy and halfassed.
Wilks having Drake, Vasquez, and Hudson in his squad. The Aliens still being on earth post Earth War and somehow the deletion of technology stops them from existing.......nevermind the fact that 200 years isn't enough time for people of earth to forget anything. People aren't going to stop telling stories or keeping records just because their computers went down. Never mind the fact that all these other corporations had caches of aliens off planet anyways. And a memory eating computer virus wouldn't affect old technology that didn't have computers in them. Took them back to the stoneage. Right.
The Weyland family owns the corps yet they need armies of personal security, mercenaries, and combat androids in Alien 3, AvP 2, AvP 2010, A: CM, to pull off their plans.
The problem was and has been (maybe not now but I have my doubts) been that for the EU Fox has never really cared about their EU concerning Aliens franchise. If they did they would have multiversed it along time ago or not come up with some of the stories they did.
Everybody looking for an Alien needed to only go to earth. Or LV1201. Or one of a dozen other overrun planets.
The EU has always been its own thing for me.
The problem is this assumes "canon" and "continuity" are synonymous, and they're not. Two completely contradictory things can be "canon".
Heck, we have that situation without even bringing up the EU. Which version of 'Alien3' is "canon"? They've each got contradictory, mutually-exclusive scenes. Or 'Alien', which also has two versions. Or really any of the movies, although 'Alien3' is the most extreme case.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 08, 2014, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 08, 2014, 07:29:28 PM
I'm not sure Fox really is fixing AVP canon as many think, this isn't the first time they tried to reboot the series, all one needs to do is look up John Shirley's interviews on this forum for Predator: Forever Midnight. Fox wanted to reboot the franchise with its new line of DH Press novels but nothing ever came of it.
That much is true, but I also don't remember Fox trying to promote the hell out of that attempted reboot as well.
To be entirely fair, FOX hasn't been using the word "reboot" at all. Even in this very thread, S.D. Perry said that there was nothing she was told to exclude in her book.
I have no doubt that the company greased a lot of palms, but a formal ICC inquest is probably something that the company would like to avoid.
QuoteThe company didn't have free rein over the colony. They owned a lot of the assets there and employed a lot of the settlers, but the colony itself was governed by the ECA.
That's true but what was to stop the Company from sending in their own "security" to check out the comms blackout? I'm sure the USCM Corp would actually have preferred that - save them the hassle and manpower.
And if there was some ECA legal red tape preventing that they could still have sent them in covertly on a supply ship.
The impression I got was that it was the USCM's job to check-up or assist colonies that fall under ECA and US/United America's jurisdiction. So why not just cheap-out and let them do the dirty work? It's probably just another downed transmitter, right?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 08, 2014, 09:56:00 PM
I have no doubt that the company greased a lot of palms, but a formal ICC inquest is probably something that the company would like to avoid.
Unless it's all basically toothless.
Kinda like the real-life 2008 financial crisis, where even though there were actual no-shit for-serious government investigations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Crisis_Inquiry_Commission) into who/what caused it and why, not a single person ended up in prison and the worst punitive measures any companies saw were slap-on-the-wrist fines.
This is probably highsight speaking due to the world we live in now, but I'm surprised any of the characters were shocked by the Company's "crew expendable" edict.
We live in a world
right now where no one would be surprised by a company not giving a shit about the lives of random citizens in the pursuit of profits. Just look at the BP oil disaster in the gulf (where, again, not a single person went to jail and the fines were a slap on the wrist at best), to name another example, and that's one where people actually died as a direct result of corporate negligence in pursuit of profits.
Maybe the idea of a corporation being cartoonishly evil was shocking for audiences in 1979, but here and now in The Year Of Our Lord 2014 where companies literally get away with whatever they want in our real-life day to day lives, the idea of an interstellar megacorporation so huge that people just call it "The Company" and everyone immediately knows what you're talking about being essentially omnipotent in the face of the government doesn't seem all that far-fetched in context.
QuoteThat's true but what was to stop the Company from sending in their own "security" to check out the comms blackout?
The ECA.
QuoteRetconing to fit in with one big universe - well, it's the approach that has always been taken like with the Big Deletion.
I like that an effort is being made to keep all the new media - Isolation, Fire & Stone, Titan novels - in one coherent continuity but without some official comment (even if just from DH or etc) on them being a new continuity, the old stuff is always going to be there and associated with and the cause of potential issues.
You will know what Fox considers canonical going forward by what is included and what is omitted.
Quote from: Quarax on Sep 08, 2014, 06:37:57 PM
Here's one of the artists: https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-R-Mullaney-illustration/106948306047099 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-R-Mullaney-illustration/106948306047099)
The APC took over 100 hours to complete. That probably doesn't include the emails going around discussing where things go and how a transaxle works.
Quote from: SM on Sep 08, 2014, 10:20:07 PM
QuoteThat's true but what was to stop the Company from sending in their own "security" to check out the comms blackout?
The ECA.
Maybe, maybe not. See above.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 08, 2014, 10:08:27 PMUnless it's all basically toothless.
Ripley and Burke didn't seem to think it was toothless.
Ripley, sure, she's an individual who was being used as a scapegoat and nearly got nailed to the wall. Why would Burke care, though?
Because he's expendable too.
What gave you the impression that Burke cared about the inquest findings, aside from the possibility of him losing access to Ripley as she's led away in handcuffs?
I was referring to his reaction to Ripley's threats later on in the movie.
Just to clarify, I think we're at odds as to just how much regulatory power the ICC has over the company and its employees. My guess is, quite a lot. Assuming the company can't keep it quiet and/or bribe its way out of trouble.
QuoteI was referring to his reaction to Ripley's threats later on in the movie.
Fair enough. In that regard I agree - he's expendable too. But I maintain that the Company as a whole would escape any real punishment, and I think that'd be the case even if there weren't a convenient scapegoat like Ripley or Burke.
If the ICC had no real power, Burke wouldn't have needed to smuggle the specimens back. And they could've ignored the ruling that removed Ripley's license.
Does the book cover any of this? :laugh:
I submitted an 11 page essay on that very subject, but the editor politely declined to include it.
Can we ever see that essay?
Yes.
And by yes I mean, no.
Because they own it or because you're being a poopy head?
The US government turns a blind eye to lots of corporations activities, but intentionally failing to see some of their shady practices and being scared are two different things.
Orona makes this point in the series. Governments hammer still bigger than corporate.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 08, 2014, 11:35:03 PM
Because they own it or because you're being a poopy head?
Because I was obviously joking.
Quote from: SM on Sep 08, 2014, 11:37:57 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 08, 2014, 11:35:03 PM
Because they own it or because you're being a poopy head?
Because I was obviously joking.
The fact that I took that joke seriously says a lot. Not sure what it says, but it definitely says it. :laugh:
it says that a man who only likes the second star wars movie out of the original trilogy cannot trust his own mind
First and second.
Jedi is my favorite of the three. Empire is the best movie of the three, but I have the most fun with Jedi and it's got my favorite music out of any of the three.
they are all excellent.
tell local trouble to stop taking this thread off topic
>:(
;D
Ms. Perry's dad wrote Shadows of the Empire. Just sayin'...
And he was also the lead singer of Journey in the '80s. True story.
;)
A man of talents both myriad and manifold.
Alright, let's steer the topic back to W-Y Report.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/10608617_700358893372701_499143284690882336_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/10694190_702534589821798_1616338381679462744_o.jpg)
I'm loving the looks of these. Can't really read the text unfortunately but still looking badass.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 08, 2014, 08:51:20 PMI didn't get the impression that Gorman was in a position to engineer much of anything.
I meant to say
Burke engineered it, because of Gorman's inexperience. Whoops :)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 09, 2014, 07:14:18 AMAlright, let's steer the topic back to W-Y Report.
I'm loving the looks of these. Can't really read the text unfortunately but still looking badass.
They do look awesome. Eagerly awaiting news of the standard edition.
I never realised how much I didn't know about the APC layout until John was researching it. Like how there's a gunners seat behind the driver and the two seats to the right of the door as you enter. Stuff that's all there in the film that I'd seen a millions time but I'd never really paid close attention to.
Ditto the upside In-tray behind the driver.
I think it was Graham who came up with the idea to store the sentry gun units in the hull behind the seats near the door.
And if you look really closely the video monitors are actual screencaps from the film.
Is Internecivus raptus still a thing or has that been retconned as the USM's name for the species? I see no reason why the two designations can't co-exist, but I'm sure we can find a way to turn it into a debate.
As for those cutaways, Ms. Perry just told us that this book was written a few months after the events of AR. Does that old USCM hardware still exist? For that matter, does the USCM still exist? I'd have thought the USM would have absorbed it long ago.
Drawing that APC interior must have been a helluva pain-in-the-ass considering that in the film the interior is actually much larger than the exterior and a separate set.
It does look like he shortened the passenger section where the marines sit though.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 09, 2014, 09:11:13 AM
Is Internecivus raptus still a thing or has that been retconned as the USM's name for the species? I see no reason why the two designations can't co-exist, but I'm sure we can find a way to turn it into a debate.
As for those cutaways, Ms. Perry just told us that this book was written a few months after the events of AR. Does that old USCM hardware still exist? For that matter, does the USCM still exist? I'd have thought the USM would have absorbed it long ago.
They have data going back to Prometheus and earlier. Why wouldn't that have data on USCM hardware?
QuoteIs Internecivus raptus still a thing or has that been retconned as the USM's name for the species? I see no reason why the two designations can't co-exist, but I'm sure we can find a way to turn it into a debate.
I Raptus was raised, but as Danelle pointed out earlier they liked the XX121 thing.
In the latest novel it is mentioned that the USM was basically just a corrupt government body that was replaced by the original governments after people grew tired of the shade.
So the USM was basically the UPP by another name? :laugh:
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 09, 2014, 06:51:59 PMSo the USM was basically the UPP by another name? :laugh:
Except not communist.
Just because they weren't overt commies like the caricatures in the Gibson script doesn't mean the USM wasn't a socialist/post-corporatist organization. Eh, Comrade? ;D
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 09, 2014, 10:49:04 PM
Just because they weren't overt commies like the caricatures in the Gibson script doesn't mean the USM wasn't a socialist/post-corporatist organization. ;D
I think it was more just a military organization. They stepped in to bring the megacorporations to heel when people got fed up with the likes of W-Y. They then sort of fell into the same abuses once they controlled everything, squandering people's goodwill. I wouldn't call them socialist or anything like that, but Sea of Sorrows is vague enough to see many possibilities.
Elgyn's remark to Perez about the operation not having been approved by Congress gave me the impression that the USM was just the military branch of the United Systems government. If that government was formed after some sort of anti-corporatist revolution, I can easily see it being a neo-socialist regime.
Yeah, it's the military arm of a United Systems government.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi60.tinypic.com%2F24mcdtx.jpg&hash=a79e3c147e17801c2b16c664b93b946335ce4c88)
Dat red star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_star).
:D
General Perez was obviously a Cuban.
Quote from: SM on Sep 09, 2014, 11:52:00 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 09, 2014, 09:11:13 AM
Is Internecivus raptus still a thing or has that been retconned as the USM's name for the species? I see no reason why the two designations can't co-exist, but I'm sure we can find a way to turn it into a debate.
As for those cutaways, Ms. Perry just told us that this book was written a few months after the events of AR. Does that old USCM hardware still exist? For that matter, does the USCM still exist? I'd have thought the USM would have absorbed it long ago.
They have data going back to Prometheus and earlier. Why wouldn't that have data on USCM hardware?
Sure, but is it relevant 200 years later?
Like yeah they're including data on pulse rifles because it's a book written for Alien series fans and they expect to see the guns from 'Aliens', but if it's written 200 years later wouldn't it make more sense to include the guns from 'Alien Resurrection', or at least mention them? Or are the Pulse Rifles mentioned in a sort of "this is the tech of the time period" slant? Because otherwise it'd be like writing a book about American military history from 1776 to today and saying that Civil War rifled muskets were the most effective guns we came up with.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 10, 2014, 08:05:17 AM...wouldn't it make more sense to include the guns from 'Alien Resurrection', or at least mention them?
Who says it doesn't?
Because of how the small print on the Pulse Rifle art page is written, it acts as though 200 year old guns are the absolute pinnacle of weapons to use against Aliens, going so far as to list specific grenade variants operators should use for the grenade launcher (as if those wouldn't be historical collector's items 200 years later :P).
Or is the book overall from "post A:R" but certain parts are written from the perspective of other time periods?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 10, 2014, 08:21:44 AMBecause of how the small print on the Pulse Rifle art page is written, it acts as though 200 year old guns are the absolute pinnacle of weapons to use against Aliens, going so far as to list specific grenade variants operators should use for the grenade launcher (as if those wouldn't be historical collector's items 200 years later :P).
You've already answered that question. Pulse Rifles are what the fans want to see, not the funky guns from the fourth film (although personally I'd really like some info on those too).
Maybe the book will try and justify its choice of content, maybe it won't.
Well sure, I was more of asking about the justification in-context.
If we were going to get data on pulse rifles with new full-color pictures and cutaways of USCM vehicles, personally I'd rather see a revised edition of the USCM Tech Manual - at least then all of that stuff would make sense in context without any added effort. :P
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 10, 2014, 08:35:28 AMWell sure, I was more of asking about the justification in-context.
Actually, having looked at some of the preview images again, the one for the M41A notes that "this detailed report was compiled... following a review of the USS Sulaco's mission to LV-426..." so clearly some of the content is meant to be historical in context.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 10, 2014, 08:35:28 AM
Well sure, I was more of asking about the justification in-context.
That's what I meant when I raised the question. I just let it go to spare myself a SMackdown.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 10, 2014, 10:53:51 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 10, 2014, 08:35:28 AMWell sure, I was more of asking about the justification in-context.
Actually, having looked at some of the preview images again, the one for the M41A notes that "this detailed report was compiled... following a review of the USS Sulaco's mission to LV-426..." so clearly some of the content is meant to be historical in context.
Interesting, so it's a USCM report about Xenomorphs and how to fight them and stuff.
There might be some people that'd say that doesn't jive with 'Alien Resurrection's claim of "no other encounters with Aliens" due to its context.
I wouldn't be one of those people, though. ;)
FREAKING AWESOMEEEEE :D
Never trusted Jonesy the cat lol
Thanks To HR Giger, For All The Sleepless Nights.
RIP Giger.
Interesting speculations... This book does go into Burke's motivation, and how much the Company did or did not know, and a little bit on how they operate. It's not all spelled out, but most fans will get the inferences.
As to the weapons discussion, remember that the report comments on footage/uploads/stolen files that the Company has gathered about this species. They (WY) have more information about the weapons used at Hadley's Hope, because it was a Company installation and transmissions continued at least until the processor blew; plus, the Marines would have received uploads from the APC, the drop ship, the Sulaco, and Bishop. There are newer weapons, of course, but they weren't designed to handle these particular aliens and have not been field tested... Unless you count the crappy guns that the USM used in Resurrection, which obviously weren't particularly effective (they are mentioned, though, briefly). This book was written post Res, and has transmissions and uploads and data from each movie's time period.
I did my best on details, but I'm sure not every question is answered, nor every pet theory validated. I am also a fan, though, and took this book quite seriously, and I hope that shows in the writing. Is it new forever-canon? Or free of mistakes? Not possible logistically, IMO. But it's a respectful, entertaining addition to the universe, and I don't think fans will be disappointed. Of course, I'm biased, I got to see the layout when I did the captions, and it looks very, very cool.
BTW, my dad totally never sang for Journey. But don't stop believing.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 11, 2014, 01:13:03 AMInteresting, so it's a USCM report about Xenomorphs and how to fight them and stuff.
There might be some people that'd say that doesn't jive with 'Alien Resurrection's claim of "no other encounters with Aliens" due to its context.
Just because they compile a report on how best to fight the Alien, that doesn't mean they've actually been encountering them. They might want to be prepared just in case.
Quote from: a Fan on Sep 11, 2014, 05:43:08 AMUnless you count the crappy guns that the USM used in Resurrection, which obviously weren't particularly effective (they are mentioned, though, briefly).
Glad they're at least mentioned. It would've been nice to get some proper details on them instead of just focussing on the ol' Pulse Rifle again (as much as I'm looking forward to that too).
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 11, 2014, 07:44:55 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 11, 2014, 01:13:03 AMInteresting, so it's a USCM report about Xenomorphs and how to fight them and stuff.
There might be some people that'd say that doesn't jive with 'Alien Resurrection's claim of "no other encounters with Aliens" due to its context.
Just because they compile a report on how best to fight the Alien, that doesn't mean they've actually been encountering them. They might want to be prepared just in case.
The problem with that is, how would they know to write the report about the Alien, let alone any details about the Alien on which to base their report? Everyone who went to LV-426 is dead.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 11, 2014, 12:30:49 PMThe problem with that is, how would they know to write the report about the Alien, let alone any details about the Alien on which to base their report? Everyone who went to LV-426 is dead.
Given how quickly Bishop II and co. rock up on Fiorina, it's s safe bet they got some information sent back while the Hadley's snafu was going on.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 11, 2014, 12:30:49 PM
The problem with that is, how would they know to write the report about the Alien, let alone any details about the Alien on which to base their report? Everyone who went to LV-426 is dead.
I would assume the APC was constantly uploading data (including the marine's video feed) to the Sulaco, at least until it was totaled by the dropship. The Sulaco might also have a recording of the events in the hangar and possibly a debriefing by Ripley. Bishop might also have used his USB port to upload data to the Sulaco mainframe.
At least something had to have got back to them, because between the second and third films it goes from Burke apparently being a lone agent to the company sending an entire team to snag an Alien.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 11, 2014, 12:45:57 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 11, 2014, 12:30:49 PMThe problem with that is, how would they know to write the report about the Alien, let alone any details about the Alien on which to base their report? Everyone who went to LV-426 is dead.
Given how quickly Bishop II and co. rock up on Fiorina, it's s safe bet they got some information sent back while the Hadley's snafu was going on.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 11, 2014, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 11, 2014, 12:30:49 PM
The problem with that is, how would they know to write the report about the Alien, let alone any details about the Alien on which to base their report? Everyone who went to LV-426 is dead.
I would assume the APC was constantly uploading data (including the marine's video feed) to the Sulaco, at least until it was totaled by the dropship. The Sulaco might also have a recording of the events in the hangar and possibly a debriefing by Ripley. Bishop might also have used his USB port to upload data to the Sulaco mainframe.
So despite the Sulaco being a USCM ship and the data (allegedly) uploading to USCM servers or whatever, W-Y still managed to get the data first and be the first-responders to Fury 161?
Also worth pointing out that since the W-Y Report references the USCM Tech Manual, we know for a fact that there's more encounters with the Alien since the last chapter of that book spells one out on the last page. :P
And the Tech Manual confirms that the Derelict wasn't destroyed in 'Aliens', so it stands to reason that the USCM would have done some kind of investigation and sent another team to LV-426 to figure out what happened (even if it wasn't the particular events of Colonial Marines, which I'm not ruling out), which would constitute another Alien encounter.
The Sulaco probably transmitted it's data to the USCM HQ. I assume they must have decided to share it with WY (either willingly or via a crooked higher-up in the pay of WY).
Or perhaps WY simply intercepted the transmission and decrypted it themselves, who knows?
WY might not have gotten the Sulaco data first but they did get the data from Fiorina 161 first. The USCM most likely did not even know about the events of Fiorina. The Patna might also have been closer to Fiorina than any of the USCM's assets.
QuoteAnd the Tech Manual confirms that the Derelict wasn't destroyed in 'Aliens'
That was unfortunately retconned by Alien: Resurrection.
Quoteso it stands to reason that the USCM would have done some kind of investigation and sent another team to LV-426 to figure out what happened (even if it wasn't the particular events of Colonial Marines, which I'm not ruling out), which would constitute another Alien encounter.
No doubt they would send in another team to investigate. All that they would have found though is a big crater since all the Aliens and the Derelict were destroyed by the AP blast.
I have no difficulty believing that everything which occurred prior to the APC's destruction was relayed to the network via the Sulaco. The company would then have all the confirmation they needed to corroborate Ripley's story.
I can easily believe that Burke could have slipped away and privately sent a transmission of his own after he saw those live facehuggers and his eyes turned into dollar signs.
Are we really asking about the canonicity of the Wey-Yu Report? Wow, I forgot how hardcore this forum was, lol. :D
Btw, the Derelict survived the nuclear explosion in Aliens as it showed up in its "official" sequel, A:CM, remember?
Does this book take A:CM into account?
I would find it personally hilarious if it did cause it'll piss off so many fans lol, but in all honesty it probably won't for that exact reason.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 12, 2014, 12:04:49 AM
Are we really asking about the canonicity of the Wey-Yu Report? Wow, I forgot how hardcore this forum was, lol. :D
Takes everything as canon.
Says
everyone else is hardcore...
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 11, 2014, 01:01:23 PM
QuoteAnd the Tech Manual confirms that the Derelict wasn't destroyed in 'Aliens'
That was unfortunately retconned by Alien: Resurrection.
And then it got re-retconned back into existence when the USCM Tech Manual got reissued this year, unchanged (not to mention its presence post 'Alien Resurrection' in AvPClassic in 1999, and again in Colonial Marines last year). :)
I'm starting to hate retcons.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 12, 2014, 02:24:12 AM
I'm starting to hate retcons.
They've been around ever since the first standalone story ever told got a sequel. :P
I mean I'm not going to lie, we've seen some wacky retcons in the Alienverse in the last year or so, and the Derelict is the least of them. Hicks not being dead (Colonial Marines), Ripley waking up in between Alien and Aliens (Out of the Shadows), Amanda Ripley going on her own adventure (Isolation), there being Marines on LV-426 pre-Aliens (River of Pain), some Hadley's Hope colonists escaping the planet (Fire and Stone), W-Y completely recovering from whatever dire straits they were in in Resurrection (Sea of Sorrows), etc.
QuoteI'm starting to hate retcons.
It's generally much less painful if you stick with the flicks.
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 02:29:10 AM
QuoteI'm starting to hate retcons.
It's generally much less painful if you stick with the flicks.
But what's the fun in that? ;)
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 02:29:10 AM
It's generally much less painful if you stick with the flicks.
Why do you think I gave up on EU?
I admit, many of those scenerios Xenomrph mentioned sound interesting to me. Except for Hicks not being dead. That is angering to me.
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Sep 12, 2014, 02:32:42 AM
I admit, many of those scenerios Xenomrph mentioned sound interesting to me. Except for Hicks not being dead. That is angering to me.
The parentheses are the titles in which they happened (or will happen, in some cases - not all of those titles are out yet).
It's funny cause if there's already this much anger then this new "reboot" of canon that Fox is planning will probably implode in their faces... again, then all this angst we've been experiencing with this new canon will all be for nothing.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2014, 02:34:34 AM
The parentheses are the titles in which they happened (or will happen, in some cases - not all of those titles are out yet).
What scenarios in particular happened? What titles were accounted for?
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 12, 2014, 02:37:44 AM
It's funny cause if there's already this much anger then this new "reboot" of canon that Fox is planning will probably implode in their faces... again, then all this angst we've been experiencing with this new canon will all be for nothing.
Funny, because I was asking my comic clerk today if the comics were selling like hot-cakes. They are selling but not like hot-cakes. And what angst and anger? I've seen little to none of that. What angst and anger?
Predxeno can summon enough hardcore angst and anger to account for 10 normal fans.
It was implied that not a lot of people are fond of the rewriting the past films concept that Fox currently has going on.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 12, 2014, 02:43:26 AM
It was implied that not a lot of people are fond of the rewriting the past films concept that Fox currently has going on.
I most certainly don't like it. But hey.. every fandom goes through retcons.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 12, 2014, 02:39:27 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2014, 02:34:34 AM
The parentheses are the titles in which they happened (or will happen, in some cases - not all of those titles are out yet).
What scenarios in particular happened? What titles were accounted for?
I'm not sure I understand the question? All of the scenarios I listed will have happened once their titles have been released, and all the ones that have been released so far have happened. Hicks lives in Colonial Marines, Ripley wakes up in Out of the Shadows, W-Y comes back in Sea of Sorrows, etc.
I still don't get why fans never liked bringing Hicks back from the dead, then again no one ever told me. :(
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 12, 2014, 02:48:24 AM
I still don't get why fans never liked bringing Hicks back from the dead, then again no one ever told me. :(
It wasn't the fact that they did it, it was how they did it.
I don't mind it, but I can see how it could rub people the wrong way. It feels a bit like bad fan-fiction in some ways.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 12, 2014, 02:48:24 AM
I still don't get why fans never liked bringing Hicks back from the dead, then again no one ever told me. :(
Because of...
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv338%2Fmaledoro%2FAlien%2Fb19eaecf.jpg&hash=8e34654096dfb1df7e32f165696d45331334fa67)(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi218.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc196%2Fnukem11%2FCopyof42317c1a.jpg&hash=f488931f4881b29bb66f5ac16eb68bf28a617c73)(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv338%2Fmaledoro%2FAlien%2Fb19eaecf-1.jpg&hash=35ac411ef255822c222fcff8ea706fa31d0701ca)
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 12, 2014, 02:48:24 AM
I still don't get why fans never liked bringing Hicks back from the dead, then again no one ever told me. :(
Because he was quite clearly, obviously and irretrievably dead in Alien3, and the manner of his return was possibly the most incomprehensibly bad piece of writiing ever associated with an Alien license. It not only paid no attention to the continuity of the souce material - it paid no attention to its own continuity.
Am I to take it that this will be our official stance in the continuity rewrites laid out in the future?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2014, 02:47:30 AM
I'm not sure I understand the question? All of the scenarios I listed will have happened once their titles have been released, and all the ones that have been released so far have happened. Hicks lives in Colonial Marines, Ripley wakes up in Out of the Shadows, W-Y comes back in Sea of Sorrows, etc.
I was asking if any of the past EU was accounted for, but it seems I misunderstood your statement.
What's "our official stance"?
Isn't there a totally different Hicks prop in the theatrical cut vs the extended cut?
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 03:00:15 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 12, 2014, 02:48:24 AM
I still don't get why fans never liked bringing Hicks back from the dead, then again no one ever told me. :(
Because he was quite clearly, obviously and irretrievably dead in Alien3, and the manner of his return was possibly the most incomprehensibly bad piece of writiing ever associated with an Alien license. It not only paid no attention to the continuity of the souce material - it paid no attention to its own continuity.
'Alien3' left enough wiggle-room by making his corpse unrecognizable. If they'd left his head intact and just had him impaled through the chest or something obviously unsurvivable, I highly doubt Colonial Marines would have even tried to resurrect him.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 12, 2014, 03:02:34 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2014, 02:47:30 AM
I'm not sure I understand the question? All of the scenarios I listed will have happened once their titles have been released, and all the ones that have been released so far have happened. Hicks lives in Colonial Marines, Ripley wakes up in Out of the Shadows, W-Y comes back in Sea of Sorrows, etc.
I was asking if any of the past EU was accounted for, but it seems I misunderstood your statement.
Yeah no, those are all retcons within the last
year, from entirely new material that's just come out or about to come out. :P
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 03:03:05 AM
What's "our official stance"?
Stick with the films?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 12, 2014, 03:05:44 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 03:03:05 AM
What's "our official stance"?
Stick with the films?
He's asking what predxeno means by the phrase.
And we don't have an "official stance", because we're all individuals who can make up our own minds. :)
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 12, 2014, 03:05:44 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 03:03:05 AM
What's "our official stance"?
Stick with the films?
Works for me - but I don't know what Predxeno is trying to say.
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 03:00:15 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 12, 2014, 02:48:24 AM
I still don't get why fans never liked bringing Hicks back from the dead, then again no one ever told me. :(
Because he was quite clearly, obviously and irretrievably dead in Alien3, and the manner of his return was possibly the most incomprehensibly bad piece of writiing ever associated with an Alien license. It not only paid no attention to the continuity of the souce material - it paid no attention to its own continuity.
^ THIS THIS THIS THIS!!! Also, didn't Andrews collect Hicks' military ID tags? I'm sure that the CM and/or WY had to have them for confirmation issues. Also, if you look below the names in the film (ie Lt. Ellen Ripley, unidentified female, etc) the numbers are below the name, SURELY that would have to confirm who the adults fn are.
Considering Ripley was comatose, and Hicks' cryotube monitoring equipment was all smashed - that's the obvious and simplest conclusion.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 12, 2014, 02:48:24 AM
I still don't get why fans never liked bringing Hicks back from the dead, then again no one ever told me. :(
It really hurts me that people don't like me being back. :-\ But I'll get used to it. *considers changing username again*
But yeah, it seems of late we're getting a lot of retcons. It seems that Fox is really adverse to trying new things again.
What do you mean?
By definition, retcons are shoehorning "new things" into what has come before and then forcing them to fit by making changes. :P
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 03:00:15 AMBecause he was quite clearly, obviously and irretrievably dead in Alien3, and the manner of his return was possibly the most incomprehensibly bad piece of writiing ever associated with an Alien license. It not only paid no attention to the continuity of the souce material - it paid no attention to its own continuity.
Yep. It wasn't so much what they did (although the fact they even tried it reeks of lame fan-fiction), it was the hysterically improbable scenario they conjured up to achieve it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 12, 2014, 07:17:41 AMIt really hurts me that people don't like me being back. :-\ But I'll get used to it. *considers changing username again*
"No offence" - Burke
QuoteBut yeah, it seems of late we're getting a lot of retcons. It seems that Fox is really adverse to trying new things again.
Possibly because all the new things they've tried in recent years haven't been overly successful?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2014, 07:22:57 AM
What do you mean?
By definition, retcons are shoehorning "new things" into what has come before and then forcing them to fit by making changes. :P
I mean - leaving Ripley alone and not tying everything into the older media.
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 07:45:26 AM
Possibly because all the new things they've tried in recent years haven't been overly successful?
True enough. Just takes the right people though.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 12, 2014, 07:17:41 AM
But yeah, it seems of late we're getting a lot of retcons. It seems that Fox is really adverse to trying new things again.
Fox is jumping in on the Prometheus hype to bring back more Aliens. With the new novels and comics, it's only a matter of time until Alien5.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 12, 2014, 07:17:41 AM
It really hurts me that people don't like me being back. :-\ But I'll get used to it. *considers changing username again*
Nothing personal. As long as you don't have CPL. HICKS L55321 stenciled on the back of your shorts.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 12, 2014, 09:25:12 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2014, 07:22:57 AM
What do you mean?
By definition, retcons are shoehorning "new things" into what has come before and then forcing them to fit by making changes. :P
I mean - leaving Ripley alone and not tying everything into the older media.
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 07:45:26 AM
Possibly because all the new things they've tried in recent years haven't been overly successful?
True enough. Just takes the right people though.
Out Of The Shadows was much better than it had a right to be.
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 12:27:49 PMOut Of The Shadows was much better than it had a right to be.
It was still hurt by them shoehorning Ripley into it though.
Quote from: gabgrave on Sep 12, 2014, 09:31:43 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 12, 2014, 07:17:41 AM
But yeah, it seems of late we're getting a lot of retcons. It seems that Fox is really adverse to trying new things again.
Fox is jumping in on the Prometheus hype to bring back more Aliens. With the new novels and comics, it's only a matter of time until Alien5.
It's less to do with Prometheus and more to do with the 35th anniversary of 'Alien'.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 12, 2014, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 12:27:49 PMOut Of The Shadows was much better than it had a right to be.
It was still hurt by them shoehorning Ripley into it though.
Indeed - I wasn't saying the new stuff isn't good. I've enjoyed both new novels a lot but the Fox mandated Ripley inclusion hurt Out of the Shadows quite a lot.
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2014, 12:27:49 PMOut Of The Shadows was much better than it had a right to be.
Is that an official recommendation?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 12, 2014, 07:17:41 AMIt really hurts me that people don't like me being back. :-\ But I'll get used to it. *considers changing username again*
I only resent you overstepping your authority and nuking stuff. Afterall, you're just a grunt.
The inclusion of Ripley should've been a trainwreck. And while there are a number of continuity issues - it wasn't.
Is it sufficiently explained why Ripley has no memory of the event?
It's explained. 'Sufficiently' not so much.
This vexes me.
Regarding the no memory issue:
Spoiler
Ripley feels so guilty for being gone from Amanda's life for so long and is plagued with nightmares filled with Aliens that she requests that a med-chamber wipe her memory.
The follow-up question would be, why would she only want the events of 'Out of the Shadows' wiped, and not all of the traumatic stuff like the events of 'Alien' as well?
I had a colonoscopy a few years ago and was shot up with two drugs for the procedure: Demerol for the pain (which made me feel good) and Verced to essentially make me forget the entire thing. The Verced worked perfectly because I have no recollection of the procedure even though I was reportedly awake and responsive to questions during that time. However, it didn't wipe any memories of events that took place prior to that. Too much information?
Maybe whatever they did to Ripley only worked for recent memories.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 12, 2014, 10:18:16 PMRegarding the no memory issue:
I actually really disliked how Ripely became a blubbering mess by the end of the book. She's shown to be far more mentally strong than that in the films. It didn't seem to fit the character at all.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 13, 2014, 07:00:45 PM
I had a colonoscopy a few years ago and was shot up with two drugs for the procedure: Demerol for the pain (which made me feel good) and Verced to essentially make me forget the entire thing. The Verced worked perfectly because I have no recollection of the procedure even though I was reportedly awake and responsive to questions during that time. However, it didn't wipe any memories of events that took place prior to that. Too much information?
Maybe whatever they did to Ripley only worked for recent memories.
I guess that makes sense, as if she wanted them to wipe everything and the process just didn't work as planned and only wiped the recent stuff.
Any idea if Mike Lynch was involved in this book?
Not directly as far as I know.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 13, 2014, 07:00:45 PM
Demerol for the pain (which made me feel good) and Verced to essentially make me forget the entire thing.
Then how do you know what the demerol felt like? ;)
It took effect before the Verced did. And it was glorious.
Not to reopen an old argument, but many people are saying this "canon bible" that is being released is Fox's attempt to reboot the canon and that they are deciding with stories to cut. Out of curiosity, where did this rumor originate from and how?
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 04:11:28 AM
Not to reopen an old argument, but many people are saying this "canon bible" that is being released is Fox's attempt to reboot the canon and that they are deciding with stories to cut. Out of curiosity, where did this rumor originate from and how?
It came from James A. Moore when he had mentioned that Fox was going to be releasing a canon chart. Considering that it came from a very reliable source, and the fact that Fox had considered in dropping Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection... Well, I'd say it's perhaps a little more than a rumor. Lots of signs seem to suggest it. It seems to be greatly affecting the Alien side..
As for the Predator side of things, and that's where I'm most concerned.. Well.. From how I see it, if one is affected-- so is the other.
Fox - Screwing Alien Fans Since 1992
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 05:42:56 AM
Fox - Screwing Alien Fans Since 1992
I don't mind reboots. As a matter of fact I welcome them.. Provided that they are complete start overs. This.. this is more of a mass retcon than anything else. Essentially, this is what Disney did with Star Wars but Fox is doing it with Alien-Predator. You could even argue that this is essentially what G85 did when Toho discarded the Showa era films for the Heisei.. But what Fox is doing can be seen as akin to what G85 did, or that viewpoint is simply wishful thinking.
PredXeno, let me say that I completely feel your frustration and I don't like the mass retcon as much as you do. You can either find something else to be interested in and move on.. or.. apply fanfiction and adhere to fanon and pay no mind to the new canon.
I was actually wondering what was possessing Fox to consider "retconning" Alien 3 and A:R.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 05:59:06 AM
I was actually wondering what was possessing Fox to consider "retconning" Alien 3 and A:R.
Either fan reception or fan pressure. I don't know.
I mean critically speaking, according to Wikipedia.. Alien Resurrection got mixed reviews. And I would think Alien 3 has been forgiven by fans considering the fact that we've got the Assembly Cut.
What's interesting to note is that if Fox considers Alien: Sea of Sorrows as canon then it'll have to take the AVP films as canon to some extent as well since the book references the movies, specifically AVPR.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 06:26:29 AM
What's interesting to note is that if Fox considers Alien:Sea of Sorrows as canon then it'll have to take the AVP films as canon to some extent as well since the book references the movies, specifically AVPR.
Wait.. WHAT?! HOW?!
Yeah, lol, it's mentioned that there were rumors that the reason Wey-Yu was so technologically advanced was because it got its tech through alien technology. Assuming Fox nixes all the Aliens comics and novels that introduces new species of aliens intelligent enough to produce technology then the only alien species that we have met to produce such tech are the Predators and the Engineers; there's the obvious reference to Pred tech in AVPR and how it influenced future human space travel, but there's no evidence at all of human acquisition of Engineer technology especially since their tech is bio-organic.
This.. I... I am so confused now.. ::)
Can we get a direct quote from the book?
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 06:26:29 AMWhat's interesting to note is that if Fox considers Alien: Sea of Sorrows as canon then it'll have to take the AVP films as canon to some extent as well since the book references the movies, specifically AVPR.
I don't remember that at all.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 21, 2014, 06:50:14 AM
This.. I... I am so confused now.. ::)
Can we get a direct quote from the book?
"Rumor had it that that the company had made several of their more radical leaps in technology by retrofitting alien artifacts for 'new' advancements."
-p. 84
Yup.. I'm even more confused. :-\
Considering the book also mentions the company have found dozens of alien remains from differing species I would say it's related to that more so than anything from AVPR.
If this new canon bible is real, and at one point Fox were thinking about exorcising 3 and Resurrection, then it's hardly likely Requiem is gonna be included now is it?
A rumour of non specific advancements from non specific artifacts means AvP:R is canon.
Looks like the ol' predxeno, trying to make something out of nothing magic, is back. ;D
I think Sea of Sorrows is more referring to things like Arcturian tech and possibly Engineer tech that Galgo brings back after Fire and Stone.
I've been wondering about that as well. Do the Arcturians even have tech to begin with? I don't know if Moore deliberately knew that he was referencing AVPR but I think it's pretty clear that he took inspiration from it since it's the only film to suggest that humans took advantage of alien technology and since this is a VERY small detail in the book, it isn't inconceivable that Fox may have overlooked it when editing the story.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Sep 21, 2014, 11:14:07 AM
I think Sea of Sorrows is more referring to things like Arcturian tech and possibly Engineer tech that Galgo brings back after Fire and Stone.
I was thinking that as well since you mentioned it at the Fire and Stone thread.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 04:45:25 PM
I don't know if Moore deliberately knew that he was referencing AVPR but I think it's pretty clear that he took inspiration from it since it's the only film to suggest that humans took advantage of alien technology
I haven't read Sea of Sorrows, I have no intentions of reading Sea of Sorrows or even any of the Titan Publishing books. But I have to question this. I know that Moore has said that he has said all of the Alien films, or at least that's why I remember but has he seen any of the AvP films? He hasn't made any indication that he's seen them, at least to my knowledge anyway.
The thing is, if he wasn't referring to the Predators then who was he referring to in that quote? Exactly how many different technologically advanced alien species do fans think exist in the Alien universe? ??? I wasn't aware that the AVP franchise had turned into the Star Wars/Star Trek universe.
He does say that the Arcturians were the first intelligent life human same into contact with, implying that there were others subsequently. I don't quite see it as Star Trek levels, but it does seem that Moore is setting up a future where humans at least to some extent are in contact with a few alien races.
As far as the AvPR thing, I think the lines about W-Y reverse engineering alien tech are supposed to be a vague allusion to post-Prometheus events where they get some Engineer technical goodies. Heck, even the mysterious "260 years" line gets us a date of 2237, which if we allow for some rounding, is close enough to Fire and Stone's 2219 setting.
Tbh, the idea of multiple technologically advanced aliens is possibly a worse idea than the AVP movies combined; the EU stories I really detested were the ones where they showed up because they took attention away from the actual stars of the story, the Aliens. You have a point saying that the Arcturians were the "first" intelligent alien life encountered but I don't think there are dozens of these alien species out there, otherwise the find in the Sea of Sorrows novel would have been of significantly lesser importance in comparison.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 07:47:27 PM
Tbh, the idea of multiple technologically advanced aliens is possibly a worse idea than the AVP movies combined
I thought you liked the AvP movies. Especially how you defend Requiem. Mind you I'm not ridiculing you, but.. You kinda confused me there a bit with that little statement. :-\
I never said I liked the first AVP film but I DO like AVPR, however I will admit that upon some reflection AVPR was less set up as a genuine Alien/Predator film and more as a teen slasher flick with mindless gore, dumb teenagers, and sex/rape scenes. AVPR was the first ever teen slasher I saw so that could have influenced my enjoyment of the story (that and I was already used to reading EU stories that followed a similar genre trend). I still vouch for AVPR as one of my all-time favorite films but I also understand that if it wasn't the first teen slasher I ever saw then there is a chance I may not have liked it as much as I did when first seeing it.
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Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 06:40:56 AM
Yeah, lol, it's mentioned that there were rumors that the reason Wey-Yu was so technologically advanced was because it got its tech through alien technology. Assuming Fox nixes all the Aliens comics and novels that introduces new species of aliens intelligent enough to produce technology then the only alien species that we have met to produce such tech are the Predators and the Engineers; there's the obvious reference to Pred tech in AVPR and how it influenced future human space travel, but there's no evidence at all of human acquisition of Engineer technology especially since their tech is bio-organic.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 04:45:25 PM
I've been wondering about that as well. Do the Arcturians even have tech to begin with? I don't know if Moore deliberately knew that he was referencing AVPR but I think it's pretty clear that he took inspiration from it since it's the only film to suggest that humans took advantage of alien technology and since this is a VERY small detail in the book, it isn't inconceivable that Fox may have overlooked it when editing the story.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 06:37:31 PM
The thing is, if he wasn't referring to the Predators then who was he referring to in that quote? Exactly how many different technologically advanced alien species do fans think exist in the Alien universe? ??? I wasn't aware that the AVP franchise had turned into the Star Wars/Star Trek universe.
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Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 07:47:27 PM
Tbh, the idea of multiple technologically advanced aliens is possibly a worse idea than the AVP movies combined; the EU stories I really detested were the ones where they showed up because they took attention away from the actual stars of the story, the Aliens. You have a point saying that the Arcturians were the "first" intelligent alien life encountered but I don't think there are dozens of these alien species out there, otherwise the find in the Sea of Sorrows novel would have been of significantly lesser importance in comparison.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 08:06:26 PM
I never said I liked the first AVP film but I DO like AVPR, however I will admit that upon some reflection AVPR was less set up as a genuine Alien/Predator film and more as a teen slasher flick with mindless gore, dumb teenagers, and sex/rape scenes. AVPR was the first ever teen slasher I saw so that could have influenced my enjoyment of the story (that and I was already used to reading EU stories that followed a similar genre trend). I still vouch for AVPR as one of my all-time favorite films but I also understand that if it wasn't the first teen slasher I ever saw then there is a chance I may not have liked it as much as I did when first seeing it.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjarviscity.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2FShining-Shelley-Duvall-Baseball-Bat.jpg&hash=aa276de101db18e8cabe9adb951b9563e0da4e3b)
Cvalda, I am getting REALLY tired of your small attempts to ridicule me, I am asking you to please lay off these juvenile posts or I will have to take more drastic action. As I said before, I would never laugh at you no matter what your argument so I am asking for the same courtesy in return.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 08:06:26 PM
I never said I liked the first AVP film but I DO like AVPR, however I will admit that upon some reflection AVPR was less set up as a genuine Alien/Predator film and more as a teen slasher flick with mindless gore, dumb teenagers, and sex/rape scenes. AVPR was the first ever teen slasher I saw so that could have influenced my enjoyment of the story (that and I was already used to reading EU stories that followed a similar genre trend). I still vouch for AVPR as one of my all-time favorite films but I also understand that if it wasn't the first teen slasher I ever saw then there is a chance I may not have liked it as much as I did when first seeing it.
I liked the AVP films, and I think we share some of the same outlook that the EU influenced me when I saw the films because there were heavy traces of it in the movie-- such as the blooding ritual, the fact that Predators were breeding Xenomorphs to be used in the hunt, and other stuff. However I will say that AvP-R does have it's flaws and they can't really be ignored. I still like both movies myself and the connections to the EU are there. I grew up with the EU, so maybe that's why I particularly like the movies so much.
I'm not going to lie and say the AvP movies we got are the ones we really wanted. I think that Fox should've taken the gambit and go with Briggs' script. It would've been many fans' wish fulfillment but studio heads kept on changing, there was studio handling involved, and all that stuff.. We didn't get a movie set in space with Marines. But even if we have gotten Briggs' script, would it have really fulfilled our wishes to what we wanted? Hard to say.
Back on topic.. Do I like the retcon which Fox is aiming to execute?
HELL NO! But the decision is up to Fox whether we like it or not. Yeah, it sucks that storylines and characters we grew up with and enjoyed may no longer exist in the Alien-Predator universe(s) but like Stephani said.. Enjoy what you enjoy, and if you don't like Fox's decisions, take your business elsewhere.
I'm still contemplating on whether or not from jumping ship. I'm already going back to other franchises and fandom which I like, but Alien-Predator was something I was passionate about. So you're not alone on this PredXeno.
The first AVP film was enjoyable on the first watch but what I think ultimately ruined any rewatch value is the fact that Paul Anderson copied AVP: Prey's storyline word-for-word and made the film PG-13 instead of the hardcore R that the franchise deserves; I would like the story much better if it were an original one. Also, Paul Andrerson cheaped out and only included three predators where the original script had five; you can still find out what happened to the missing 2 preds if you read the movie novelization.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 08:22:22 PM
Cvalda, I am getting REALLY tired of your small attempts to ridicule me, I am asking you to please lay off these juvenile posts or I will have to take more drastic action.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2014, 11:10:54 AM
Looks like the ol' predxeno, trying to make something out of nothing magic, is back. ;D
And he's hellbent on dragging that nothing out to fifty pages of insane interior monologue, as usual
You know, I once knew a person who couldn't fit into the community he lived in and thus went to the online world for the support he couldn't find in his real world. Online, he found people who not only shared his interests but also had a maturity and sophistication to them that seemed to elude the community he lived in; they didn't care about petty things such as gossip, small talk, or teasing, but preferred to talk about the big picture. Regardless of what disagreements they may have had, the online community always handled things with professionalism, it was perhaps this that drew him into their world and their community. It's a sad day, indeed, when that person realizes just how many similarities his two worlds share and just how commonplace his once treasured world was.
He mad?
QuoteYeah, it sucks that storylines and characters we grew up with and enjoyed may no longer exist in the Alien-Predator universe(s) but like Stephani said.. Enjoy what you enjoy, and if you don't like Fox's decisions, take your business elsewhere.
Who cares? Those stories are still there for you to enjoy. Why anyone would suddenly crack the shits about Fox going a new direction now, when that's all they've been doing continually for 25 years is a little baffling.
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2014, 09:54:03 PM
Who cares? Those stories are still there for you to enjoy. Why anyone would suddenly crack the shits about Fox going a new direction now, when that's all they've been doing continually for 25 years is a little baffling.
Indeed. Fox has not and never will give a flying f**k about continuity in this franchise. Unless there is a total reboot of everything don't worry about it. It really is not worth the trouble trying to get it to all fit in. Just enjoy the stories the way you normally would and throw up the deuces.
These are the same motherf**kers that encouraged ACM.
Because this isn't fixing continuity at all, it's worsening it; if Fox just retcons whatever story it likes then it'll pay even less attention to continuity issues because it knows it can just nix conflicting ones.
Many critically acclaimed and award-winning Star Wars stories have been nixed for the exact same reasons and worse, many of the newer stories that ended up nixing the older ones are of inferior quality and are obvious attempts not to tell a good story but to cash in on a popular franchise, definitely not award-winning or critically acclaimed material. I stopped buying into Star Wars a long time ago because I knew each new product will be nixed for a newer replacement version, I don't want to have to do the same with AVP.
I can't wait for more of the comics and novels to hit shelves, so we actually have stories and things to discuss/review, rather than the endless canon/continuity debates.
QuoteBecause this isn't fixing continuity at all, it's worsening it; if Fox just retcons whatever story it likes then it'll pay even less attention to continuity issues because it knows it can just nix conflicting ones.
You say this as if it's anything new. They released comics in 1988 - they were made redundant in 1992. They made more comics after that. They were made redundant in 1997. More video games and novels came along that ignored Resurrection and Ripley's sacrifice in Alien3.
They're now simplifying eveyrthing down to 5 films and the new batch of comics, novels and video games. The next Prometheus film could come out and bugger things up again.
I appreciate your disappointment that this elaborate fantasy you concocted where everything with an Alien logo on it was somehow canonical, has been all for naught, but Fox owns the thing and they call the shots.
Ditto Disney with Star Wars. I read a massive amount of EU stuff for a long time, but I think the prequels made a lot of it redundant. Their status in continuity doesn't stop some of them being good stories. I still need to catch up on Fate OF the JEdi and all the stuff that came after, and mean to at some point. Nevermind their canon status.
I'm just now finishing up on the Karen Traviss Republic Commando novels. I get why some fans hate them (and her), but I actually think they're quite good. I have no illusions about their canonicity though.
At this point, I take the EU for what it is and cherry pick its better elements to improve my own head canon. One day I hope to write it all down like John Doe in Se7en.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 21, 2014, 10:40:07 PM
At this point, I take the EU for what it is and cherry pick its better elements to improve my own head canon.
I agree with this and I even commend it.. I've even contemplated on making a fanon-verse.
The Alien films are the only "canon" Alien stuff.
The Predator films are the only "canon" Predator stuff.
The AVP films are their own spinoff thing (which is best forgotten).
Going anywhere beyond that is a) taking things way too seriously and b) stupid and delusional.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Sep 21, 2014, 11:00:10 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 21, 2014, 10:40:07 PM
At this point, I take the EU for what it is and cherry pick its better elements to improve my own head canon.
I agree with this and I even commend it.. I've even contemplated on making a fanon-verse.
I agree, it's the best way to maximize enjoyment of the material and minimize headaches.
But everyone can do what they want. The problem comes, as it always does, in trying to convince people on the Internet of one's point of view.
Why do people on the internet need convincing?
Just read what you like, however the common point of reference as of now will be detailed in the WYR.
As there is at least one more movie in the works, this is open to change.
I think the only time this comes into conflict is when someone tries to explain a movie through the lens of the EU or AVP films only to have someone else call out "not canon".
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2014, 11:23:31 PM
Why do people on the internet need convincing?
Just read what you like, however the common point of reference as of now will be detailed in the WYR.
As there is at least one more movie in the works, this is open to change.
My point was a bit unclear: I don't think people need convincing at all. The problems come when people try to do just that. That's when topics devolve into canon debates and people get their feelings hurt.
Indeed.
QuoteI think the only time this comes into conflict is when someone tries to explain a movie through the lens of the EU or AVP films only to have someone else call out "not canon".
If people do that now, they'll actually have a point.
I doubt it, at one time Alien 3 was "not canon", an opinion that frugal can't be trusted at all, let alone be in charge of anything.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 21, 2014, 11:59:17 PM
I doubt it, at one time Alien 3 was "not canon", an opinion that frugal can't be trusted at all, let alone be in charge of anything.
You should take steps.
Steps to what?
To achieve your objective. Drastic measures, if necessary.
'We have to take steps..."
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QuoteI doubt it, at one time Alien 3 was "not canon", an opinion that frugal can't be trusted at all, let alone be in charge of anything.
When was Alien3 "not canon"?
Before the AVP films were released, Alien 3 not being canon was all anyone could talk about.
Define "anyone" -- yourself and other internet fanboys don't count.
Cvalda, your lack of maturity is matched only by your stupidity, as I said multiple times I am a retconner, meaning I consider everything as canon, Alien 3 included.
QuoteBefore the AVP films were released, Alien 3 not being canon was all anyone could talk about.
Rubbish.
That's exactly what I said, personally I think the AVP movies were so bad in the eyes of fans that it actually made them think Alien 3 was good in comparison and thus ended that little debacle.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 22, 2014, 12:58:17 AM
Cvalda, your lack of maturity is matched only by your stupidity
Says the dude with the AVPR set, posting countless pages of nonsense about the canonicity of a science fiction franchise.
Says the guy who takes every opportunity he can to ridicule the aforementioned dude.
The Passion of the Predxeno
lulz
Knock it off, both of you. No personal attacks.
Who is this guy?
Is calling Cvalda a guy a personal attack?
QuoteThat's exactly what I said, personally I think the AVP movies were so bad in the eyes of fans that it actually made them think Alien 3 was good in comparison and thus ended that little debacle.
No, what you said was rubbish. The odd person here and there saying they didn't think Alien3 was canon because they didn't like it doesn't amount to "all anyone was talking about".
Actually, everyone at PlanetAvP was saying it when I was there, it was MUCH more than the odd person out, let me assure you. I remember very specifically because that was the reason I chose to drop the "EU is not canon" belief.
Ah, that'd explain it.
Explain what; my lack of belief in non canon or why there were so many Alien 3 non canoners?
The people that wanted Alien 3 removed from canon were very active on both PAVP and IMDB.
But those people are still in the hundreds. Hollywood doesn't cater to a group that low in numbers, there is no profit in it.
Isn't the "AVP is not canon" crowd also in the hundreds? I imagine most AVP fans are agnostic so they really couldn't care less.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 22, 2014, 02:08:05 AM
Explain what; my lack of belief in non canon or why there were so many Alien 3 non canoners?
PlanetAvP was shit. It's not surprising it had more than its fair share of idiots.
Lol, well if it hadn't then I may very well have converted to the "EU is not canon" side like you guys. :P
mang you can believe what ever you want to believe
The only thing I was saying is that Fox doesn't give a shit one way or another.
They do at the moment. Whether that will last or not, who knows.
I don't expect that it will.
Personally.. I'm just sticking with the old stuff. Don't want anything to do with the new.
Only thing which is keeping me going is Shane Black's movie.. Of course my enthusiasm had dropped when I found that it was a sequel and not a reboot. Question is, what's it going to be a sequel to out of the movies? Aaaaah.. That's what we're all wondering now. And if Shane's movie is something I may not agree with..
As heretical as this is to say if I don't agree with what Shane may have.. I pray for a full on reboot, at least on the Predator side of things. But I trust Shane enough with the franchise. I hope that faith isn't misplaced.
I think Shane's sequel has a good chance of "rebooting" the franchise away from Predators.
If it doesn't get put into turnaround by Fox before then, of course.
Which it probably will.
NO HOPE FOR THE FRANCHISE ALL DOOM
PROMETHEUS SEQUELS FOREVER
:'( Don't even joke about that.
wow so much negativity.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 22, 2014, 02:03:55 AM
Actually, everyone at PlanetAvP was saying it when I was there, it was MUCH more than the odd person out, let me assure you. I remember very specifically because that was the reason I chose to drop the "EU is not canon" belief.
What? No we weren't. Most people were screaming "comics aren't canon!" Did you never read the "Ask Me Anything About ALIENS" thread?
Sil came from PAVP?
Bruh.
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2014, 10:20:50 PM
I appreciate your disappointment that this elaborate fantasy you concocted where everything with an Alien logo on it was somehow canonical, has been all for naught, but Fox owns the thing and they call the shots.
FOX has been calling the shots for years, and you were singing a very different tune when they were saying other things were canon as well.
Not that I'm complaining, your new EU-inclusive outlook is pretty refreshing and I heartily support it. :)
I'm waiting to see how much of the "old EU" the new stuff actually wipes out. I remember people talking about how the DH Press novels or the 2009 relaunch comics would abandon the "old EU", and then they ended up doing the exact opposite and directly referenced the old EU. Whoops! :P
I wouldn't be surprised if they took the new Star Wars "canon" approach, where old stuff is "not canon" but could be referenced and reactivated as "canon" by new stuff. I'd be pretty okay with that I think.
Okay guys and girls - if we're going to turn this into an EU/canon thread then please start a new one.
Predxeno, please read what others are saying instead of ignoring the issue and frustrating people.
Cvalda, that doesn't give you permission to be a dick. And it happens too frequently from the looks of it. Please enjoy a 7 day sabbatical and come back with a different attitude.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 22, 2014, 05:18:02 AM
Sil came from PAVP?
Bruh.
Heck yeah. I was one of the staff members for a while, even. A group of us have a Skype group chat going that's been on for the last ... 6 years?
Wow, that escalated :o
At least, if most people overlook the canon thing a bit, you can still enjoy the book for it´s looks :)
Quote from: SiL on Sep 22, 2014, 05:09:40 AM
What? No we weren't. Most people were screaming "comics aren't canon!" Did you never read the "Ask Me Anything About ALIENS" thread?
I searched for that thread. And couldn't find it. Then I realised it was probably on the other forum.
This is another of today's many epic fails on my behalf. I should have stayed in bed....
Not meaning to add oil to the fire but...
Damn, I left PAVP back in 2004, and they're STILL talking about Alien3? :o ::)
Topic guys. Please make a PAvP thread elsewhere.
Bringing things back to topic, not many people answered my original question; is anybody planning on buying the $360 collector's edition? I'm undecided.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 22, 2014, 03:12:07 PM
Bringing things back to topic, not many people answered my original question; is anybody planning on buying the $360 collector's edition? I'm undecided.
There's no chance that I spend that much. Hopefully the regular edition is more reasonably priced, because I love these table-top sort of books.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 22, 2014, 03:12:07 PM
Bringing things back to topic, not many people answered my original question; is anybody planning on buying the $360 collector's edition? I'm undecided.
I'm holding out for the platinum-trimmed, diamond-encrusted edition with the foreword by SM.
I want SM dogtags.
Is ther going to be a cheaper version? substantially cheaper hopefully
Yes, there's going to be a retail version but I don't know if the $360 version will have things the retail won't, to be honest.
Quote from: Nazrel on Sep 23, 2014, 01:51:26 AM
Is ther going to be a cheaper version? substantially cheaper hopefully
To my knowledge there are no immediate plans. But I'd be surprised if that didn't change.
Quote from: SM on Sep 23, 2014, 03:10:43 AMTo my knowledge there are no immediate plans. But I'd be surprised if that didn't change.
Didn't Perry herself say on here that she believes a cheaper version is on the way?
To my knowledge.
SD might know otherwise.
As I stated it many times already, there is the standard edition hardcover coming for round about 50 $
I guess since Sideshow is included with producing the CE cover (which makes it practically my first Sideshow release ;D ), they wanted to announce the CE first, even though that the standard book was always scheduled first. At least that´s what my contract said.
But patience, it was now an ongoing process for a while and a few weeks more waiting time should not lower the fun.
Cheers
There you go then.
When one works for nowt, one doesn't have fancy schmancy contracts.
;D
Yeah I'm definitely not dropping the coin on the super expensive version.
Well, but I still can offer a signed one for 500 :P :laugh:
Quote from: locusta on Sep 23, 2014, 11:16:54 AM
As I stated it many times already, there is the standard edition hardcover coming for round about 50 $
Shit, the standard version is $50!!! :o This "Report" better be
truly in-depth.
Depends on ones "definition" of truly and "in-depth".
I seem to recall Alien Vault being at least $50, so what's the big deal?
What I'm saying is I hope there's an actual analysis of the Alien here rather than a simple rehash of what we already know; IMO, this is why Alien: Sea of Sorrows didn't do as well as it could have, every plot twist provided was pretty much focused on an aspect of the Alien that fans already know such as the life-cycle, Queen, etc.
As long as the 50$ has the same info and hopefulyl pictures ill be happy. Even if its not in some awesome fancy schmancy giant alien necronomicn bible book
QuoteWhat I'm saying is I hope there's an actual analysis of the Alien here rather than a simple rehash of what we already know;
Like what?
Like Alien: Sea of Sorrows.
Like what "actual analysis"?
The Aliens RPG book did some good work analyzing the creatures and the world they lived in.
Sounds like you want this book to embellish a lot. I don't think that's its purpose.
The RPG made lots of stuff up for the purpose of gameplay - the Aliens needed rules for how to act within the realm of the game. It couldn't be left speculatory.
Like the sign says this is a report on WYs interactions with the Alien.
Quote from: locusta on Sep 23, 2014, 11:16:54 AMAs I stated it many times already, there is the standard edition hardcover coming for round about 50 $
Great, thanks much more reasonable. Be getting a copy for sure!
Then what would be the point of spending $50 for a book that regurgitates everything we already know?
I didn't realise you'd read it already and knew everything that was in it.
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 24, 2014, 04:55:36 PM
Then what would be the point of spending $50 for a book that regurgitates everything we already know?
I expect that it'll be an extremely gussied up and arduously fact-checked summation of everything Fox deems canon at this point. That's worth $50, is it not?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 24, 2014, 05:35:52 PM
I didn't realise you'd read it already and knew everything that was in it.
I didn't, but it seems to be the general opinion around here that the book won't have anything new for fans, that would be disappointing because what made the Aliens RPG book and the Aliens Technical Manual entreat was that it further explore the universe of the Aliens be discussing things the movies were incapable of describing.
At this point, I want the writers of such books to just stick to the established canon facts and stop making dubious shit up that future movies will only ignore anyway.
I don't think that's what this book will be about tbh, not for a $50-$360 price tag.
You're forgetting this is a niche thing. The price was always gonna be higher.
The CE will have an excerpt from Morse's book so I think it's safe to say there will be some bonus material here in some way, shape, or form.
I don't believe the content will change. Just how it's presented.
I wonder if predxeno would be so mad if this just regurgitated everything we already knew about the comic books...
I would enjoy seeing a predxenomrph version of this book and how it ties in all of the seemingly contradictory EU material with geometric logic. I imagine it would be quite large.
John Doe library size...
Quote from: SM on Sep 24, 2014, 09:59:55 PM
I don't believe the content will change. Just how it's presented.
I wonder if predxeno would be so mad if this just regurgitated everything we already knew about the comic books...
I would if I had to pay $50 for information already in my head. :-\
You have to pay for this?
Isn't this book worth it for the artwork alone?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 25, 2014, 12:02:48 AM
Isn't this book worth it for the artwork alone?
I hope so ;)
I haven't really been following the thread, but I know you did the cover for the special edition. Did you do any of the interior stuff?
Quote from: locusta on Sep 25, 2014, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 25, 2014, 12:02:48 AM
Isn't this book worth it for the artwork alone?
I hope so ;)
Did you finish your dog alien for the book?
I hope theres some amazing artwork in the standard edition too
The collectors edition will feature monsieur Locusta's masterpieces printed on fine archival-quality vellum. The standard edition will feature Kimahri's stick figure drawings on 100% recycled toilet paper bound with chewing gum.
Naw that's the substandard edition.
Cost 2 bucks and a can of chewing tobacco.
Quote•S.D. Perry (Author)
•Markus Pansegrau (Cover Design, Xenomorph illustrations)
•Patrick Pigott (Cover Sculpt)
•Don Bies (Cover Paint)
•Anthony Mestas (Cover Paint)
•John R. Mullaney (Weapons and vehicle illustrations)
Cryptic. What are we to derive from the bolded names?
Markus Pansegrau is Locusta I believe. And John R. Mullaney known for his Cross-Section illustrations for Star Wars I believe.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 25, 2014, 11:34:56 PM
Cryptic. What are we to derive from the bolded names?
The questions regarding interior artwork.
Did your duties extend to consulting on the accuracy of the artwork as well?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 25, 2014, 12:02:48 AM
Isn't this book worth it for the artwork alone?
The last Alien artbook I bought was the Darkhorse Panel-To-Panel book and that was only $20, but as I said I think the Wey-Yu Report will have more detailed info than most people here currently think.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 26, 2014, 06:33:16 PM
Did your duties extend to consulting on the accuracy of the artwork as well?
A little with John's stuff, but not Locustas.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 25, 2014, 04:34:53 PM
Quote from: locusta on Sep 25, 2014, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 25, 2014, 12:02:48 AM
Isn't this book worth it for the artwork alone?
I hope so ;)
Did you finish your dog alien for the book?
That one should answer your question: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=23343.60 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=23343.60) ;)
Quote from: Nazrel on Sep 25, 2014, 07:04:36 PM
I hope theres some amazing artwork in the standard edition too
All text and artwork will be the same, at least from what I know.
Quote from: SM on Sep 26, 2014, 10:59:54 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 26, 2014, 06:33:16 PM
Did your duties extend to consulting on the accuracy of the artwork as well?
A little with John's stuff, but not Locustas.
So whatever I fu**ed up, I´m the one solely to blame, stoned, tarred and feathered and de-friended on FB.
Nothing f**ked up as far as I could see.
Quote from: locusta on Oct 01, 2014, 09:03:09 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 25, 2014, 04:34:53 PMDid you finish your dog alien for the book?
That one should answer your question: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=23343.60 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=23343.60) ;)
;D
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2012, 12:08:19 AM
I'd hire a talented 3D modeler like locusta and use his models in the game.
http://locusta.deviantart.com/gallery (http://locusta.deviantart.com/gallery)
when will the standard edition become available?
No date as yet.
Does SM have an advance copy of his very own to peruse at will?
Nope.
Does SM expect to receive one or does he have to buy a copy like the rest of us wretches?
surely he is not that pleb tier
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 18, 2014, 03:29:35 AM
Does SM expect to receive one or does he have to buy a copy like the rest of us wretches?
The former.
Have to admit that there is an terrible nerve stretching silence from the publisher part. There should have been already some kind of further announcement.
I need another fix of locusta art. Is there nothing else you can show us until the book is released?
Just been told its been pushed back to May.
The regular edition or the collector's?
Disregard that. She told me wrong. Collector's Edition is due out December. No word on regular.
I have recently heard about this book and I just have a few questions about it.
So this book is gonna have all information on the xenomorph that is considered canon from the movie universe by fox? Will it consider informtaion given in director cuts and extended editions canon as well? If so will egg morphing and Amanda Ripley be mentioned in it? If Amanda is mentioned will it go over the events of Alien: Isolation?
I know it's a lot of questions but if someone could answer some of them that would be great thank you! :D
Spoiler
Someone could. But that'd be telling.
Quote from: SM on Nov 04, 2014, 01:53:42 AM
Spoiler
Someone could. But that'd be telling.
:D
Funny that even I´m not able to give any official statement further, but this just came to my notice:
http://www.amazon.es/Alien-informe-Weyland-Yutani-Comic/dp/8467916575%3FSubscriptionId%3D1NNRF7QZ418V218YP1R2%26tag%3Dbf-ps-brandkw-3-21%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D8467916575 (http://www.amazon.es/Alien-informe-Weyland-Yutani-Comic/dp/8467916575%3FSubscriptionId%3D1NNRF7QZ418V218YP1R2%26tag%3Dbf-ps-brandkw-3-21%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D8467916575)
(thanks Amazon auto search recommendation function)
Don´t wanna spoil or spill beans, but notice price and release date ;)
Awesome :)
Although November 14th seems unrealistically soon given that we've heard nowt.
Quote from: locusta on Nov 05, 2014, 10:22:51 AM
Funny that even I´m not able to give any official statement further, but this just came to my notice:
http://www.amazon.es/Alien-informe-Weyland-Yutani-Comic/dp/8467916575%3FSubscriptionId%3D1NNRF7QZ418V218YP1R2%26tag%3Dbf-ps-brandkw-3-21%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D8467916575 (http://www.amazon.es/Alien-informe-Weyland-Yutani-Comic/dp/8467916575%3FSubscriptionId%3D1NNRF7QZ418V218YP1R2%26tag%3Dbf-ps-brandkw-3-21%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D8467916575)
(thanks Amazon auto search recommendation function)
Don´t wanna spoil or spill beans, but notice price and release date ;)
Madre de dios!
Does seem ambitious considering the special ed isn't due till December.
Quote from: locusta on Nov 05, 2014, 10:22:51 AM
Funny that even I´m not able to give any official statement further, but this just came to my notice:
http://www.amazon.es/Alien-informe-Weyland-Yutani-Comic/dp/8467916575%3FSubscriptionId%3D1NNRF7QZ418V218YP1R2%26tag%3Dbf-ps-brandkw-3-21%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D8467916575 (http://www.amazon.es/Alien-informe-Weyland-Yutani-Comic/dp/8467916575%3FSubscriptionId%3D1NNRF7QZ418V218YP1R2%26tag%3Dbf-ps-brandkw-3-21%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D8467916575)
(thanks Amazon auto search recommendation function)
Don´t wanna spoil or spill beans, but notice price and release date ;)
That cover art! Tres Bien! 8)
Apparently it´s already out in France since a few days.
http://www.amazon.fr/Alien-Weyland-Yutani-S-D-Perry/dp/2364802776/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1415400956&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=rapport+weyland (http://www.amazon.fr/Alien-Weyland-Yutani-S-D-Perry/dp/2364802776/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1415400956&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=rapport+weyland)
Funny, that I don´t have a copy by now. LOLZ
My French is simply to bad to catch the comments in the French forums, but it seems not be that bad ;)
From the French version.
lolVincent.
Um...
Always found the bottom pic rather disturbing.
WYR is available as a trade book in France and Spain.
I believe the US non collectors edition may be out in the northern Spring.
Correction - Still no plans for non collectors version in US.
Argh, I wanted to take this thing seriously.
I always find it appropriate to judge a publication based on a handful of pictures, with the only context being a blurred language that I only have a rudimentary understanding of.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49493.0;attach=3762;image)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49493.0;attach=3766;image)
So...what are these? I'm guessing the top one is some sort of acid gun?
Quote from: SM on Nov 10, 2014, 02:30:26 AMlolVincent.
:laugh: Yeah, that cracked me up too.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 10, 2014, 08:28:04 AM
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49493.0;attach=3762;image
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49493.0;attach=3766;image
So...what are these? I'm guessing some sort of acid gun?
Well, the bottom one isn't.
::) Thanks, Cap'n.
*So...what are these? I'm guessing the top one is some sort of acid gun?
Personally I don't mind the book going off into a bit of "here's some shit we made up that could be derived from the Alien". Bit of a bonus on top of all the film-centric info.
Yes it is an acid gun. The picture labels provide more detail.
I look forward to seeing what they say about that. Is there a lot of new stuff in there?
That sort of thing? No.
There's lots of embellishments that connect direct to the films.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49493.0;attach=3763;image)
Xeno Armour +1 (+3 against all acid based attacks)
That's some cool stuff. It has rekindled my excitement for the WYR a bit.
As SM said, it is now not useful to judge some concepts without the written context.
As it is a company report, it does not only gather given informations from past events (the movies) but gives room for speculations and future prospects of concepts based on speculation...
That speculative stuff has me thinking that they could do some neat things in the follow ups to Sea of Sorrows, assuming those wind up happening.
Quote from: SM on Nov 10, 2014, 05:12:50 AM
I always find it appropriate to judge a publication based on a handful of pictures, with the only context being a blurred language that I only have a rudimentary understanding of.
The internet is with you on that when it comes to films too.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 10, 2014, 08:28:04 AM
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49493.0;attach=3762;image
What the fong?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 12, 2014, 04:06:33 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 10, 2014, 08:28:04 AM
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49493.0;attach=3762;image
What the fong?
Cannon!
So it looks like I was right, the book isn't going to be a simple regurgitation of stuff we already know from the movies but will actually bring us new stuff as well.
Quote from: predxeno on Nov 12, 2014, 04:25:40 PMSo it looks like I was right, the book isn't going to be a simple regurgitation of stuff we already know from the movies but will actually bring us new stuff as well.
Like Vincent's first name.
Make fun if you will but it was still a ludicrous idea to believe that this book would function solely as an art book.
Quote from: predxeno on Nov 12, 2014, 04:55:40 PMMake fun if you will but it was still a ludicrous idea to believe that this book would function solely as an art book.
Actually that was just a bit of good-natured ribbing, I'm thoroughly excited for this book. I love all that background stuff. In fact I was secretly hoping it might shed some more light on the prisoners of Fury.
Oh, looks my lack of social life screwed me over on that one, lol.
Quote from: predxeno on Nov 12, 2014, 05:33:31 PMOh, looks my lack of social life screwed me over on that one, lol.
My fault, I missed the :) out of my post!
Quote from: predxeno on Nov 12, 2014, 04:55:40 PM
Make fun if you will but it was still a ludicrous idea to believe that this book would function solely as an art book.
Who ever said it was going to be an "art book"?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 12, 2014, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Nov 12, 2014, 04:25:40 PMSo it looks like I was right, the book isn't going to be a simple regurgitation of stuff we already know from the movies but will actually bring us new stuff as well.
Like Vincent's first name.
Using the Aliens precedent and basing it on Mark Anthony Newman IIRC.
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2014, 09:01:42 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Nov 12, 2014, 04:55:40 PM
Make fun if you will but it was still a ludicrous idea to believe that this book would function solely as an art book.
Who ever said it was going to be an "art book"?
I probably came the closest...
Quote from: predxeno on Sep 26, 2014, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 25, 2014, 12:02:48 AM
Isn't this book worth it for the artwork alone?
The last Alien artbook I bought was the Darkhorse Panel-To-Panel book and that was only $20, but as I said I think the Wey-Yu Report will have more detailed info than most people here currently think.
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2014, 09:01:42 PMUsing the Aliens precedent and basing it on Mark Anthony Newman IIRC.
Does that mean we can finally identify his ass on screen, through the actor?
Don't know. Mark Newman and Nick Gillard in the bug wash at the start of the AC with Kevin, but as far as I know neither have been indentified as specific prisoners (the script just says "three prisoners"). And the body the Alien is nomming when Kevin finds it to start the bait and chase can't be identified as black or white (Newman is black).
Xeno Alpha may know more.
The book plays up the Vincent Enigma (TM).
Also some of those guys don't have names that link to the actor e.g. Yoshi Troy.
Or Arthur Walkingstick. ;D
Is that even a valid name in... wherever he's from? Or anywhere?
Also David Postlethwaite made me smile.
I don't know Deobia Oparei's heritage (if I had to guess I'd say west African), but I think the Walkingstick name is native American.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 12, 2014, 09:32:29 PM
Also some of those guys don't have names that link to the actor e.g. Yoshi Troy.
This is one of the largest cast pics I've seen from ALIEN3. Vincent might be the guy who is looking away ;)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHZyOiGu.jpg%3F2&hash=3e4178a98f00a705e61a694e90402e45a3814842)
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2014, 09:26:46 PM
The book plays up the Vincent Enigma (TM).
I'm not familiar with that. What's the mystery?
Go check out Xeno Alpha's page under the Alien3 articles (http://weyland-yutaniarchives.blogspot.co.uk/).
Quote from: Darwinsgirl on Nov 12, 2014, 11:16:38 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 12, 2014, 09:32:29 PM
Also some of those guys don't have names that link to the actor e.g. Yoshi Troy.
This is one of the largest cast pics I've seen from ALIEN3. Vincent might be the guy who is looking away ;)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FHZyOiGu.jpg%3F2&hash=3e4178a98f00a705e61a694e90402e45a3814842)
Nice pic!
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 12, 2014, 11:29:07 PMI'm not familiar with that. What's the mystery?
Specifically, try this (http://weyland-yutaniarchives.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/alien-3-vincent-enigma-updated.html) article.
I don't know if this has been asked before - apologies if it has - but does this book
just reference the films, or does it make any nods towards the games as well? (I'm mainly thinking of
Isolation.)
Quote from: SM on Nov 12, 2014, 09:26:46 PM
Don't know. Mark Newman and Nick Gillard in the bug wash at the start of the AC with Kevin, but as far as I know neither have been indentified as specific prisoners (the script just says "three prisoners"). And the body the Alien is nomming when Kevin finds it to start the bait and chase can't be identified as black or white (Newman is black).
Xeno Alpha may know more.
The book plays up the Vincent Enigma (TM).
In one Hill & Giler draft it's Janni, Vincent & Ed that's in the bug wash. In the film it's Rains, Mark Newman and Nick Gillard. In another draft the bug wash scene is replaced with a dream sequence. Turns out both Newman & Gilard were killed during the entrapment scene: Clicky (http://weyland-yutaniarchives.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/vincent-enigma-further-confusion.html)
Mark Newman was also in the attempted rape scene alongside Junior, William and Gregor. In one Hill and Giler draft Newman is identified as Martin. In other drafts he's just noted as a stunt prisoner, no name.
Bugger me. Never noticed him in the rape scene.
QuoteI don't know if this has been asked before - apologies if it has - but does this book just reference the films, or does it make any nods towards the games as well? (I'm mainly thinking of Isolation.)
This pic that Quarax posted earlier should answer that, even in blurred French.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49493.0;attach=3753 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49493.0;attach=3753)
Maybe it's just the blurred French, but it looks like both the entries for Prometheus and Fire and Stone have what look appear to be censor bars, assumingly being W-Y redacting information on the Engineers. That's a nice touch, if that is what it turns it to be, since it's an "in universe" book focussing on the xenomorphs.
Yeah it's an in-universe way of avoiding potential sequel content.
Quote from: SM on Nov 13, 2014, 10:11:17 PM
Bugger me. Never noticed him in the rape scene.
Yep. You see him at least twice and for only a few seconds each time.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi60.tinypic.com%2F1zewjkw.jpg&hash=b848fb4c5d4e0e4df35e66c74071d0a6d52b00cb)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2F25hn8k5.jpg&hash=39b1536bf71f23c1168c24d3ecf40481de5d18dc)
Theres an even better shot when Ripley is being held over the rail.
Quote from: SM on Nov 13, 2014, 10:11:17 PMThis pic that Quarax posted earlier should answer that, even in blurred French.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49493.0;attach=3753 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=49493.0;attach=3753)
Thanks. I mostly skipped over the timeline image because the text is too blurry to make any of it out. Great that we finally get a definitive date for
Resurrection though.
Did SM receive his copy yet?
Nope.
Think it might've been pushed back to (northern) Spring.
How come ze French got zeirs when we still aff to wait?
Zay are zee, 'ow you say, jammy bastards.
Yep, totally wonder the same. Btw, the Spanish version I posted a few pages back, was pushed to Christmas.
Bloody Jeunet, pulling strings.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 17, 2014, 08:33:49 AM
How come ze French got zeirs when we still aff to wait?
Time to invade.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 17, 2014, 08:33:49 AM
How come ze French got zeirs when we still aff to wait?
A superior species, no doubt.
Yeah, I see already the German version coming out before we get the original. ::)
:laugh: How many more languages is this going to be translated into before we get the English version?
Polish? Swahili? Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics?
I expect an Esperanto audiobook narrated by Michael Fassbender before we get the English version.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 17, 2014, 08:45:16 PM
I expect an Esperanto audiobook narrated by Michael Fassbender before we get the English version.
Fassbender will actually be reading the Reconstructed Indo-European version, for the Engineer market. :laugh:
What is this book's stance on Aliens: Colonial Marines?
Hopefully one of the beautifully drawn images is of an Alien curling out a turd onto a copy of the game.
The book's got acid guns and D&D fantasy style Xeno armour. I'm expecting a fully authorized biography on Turk.
Being Polish, I'm excited about my Polish edition! ...and the guy who created Esperanto was Polish too, so I'm in for the deluxe Esperanto edition as well... ;)
Quote from: SM on Nov 16, 2014, 11:53:27 PM
Nope.
Think it might've been pushed back to (northern) Spring.
Will you get Mikey Neumann to autograph it?
First thing on my list.
Have they given you a reason behind the delay?
Promotional lead time/ launch type stuff. Nothing to do with the book content.
I would have thought they'd want to get in on the 35th Anniversary/Christmas-time hype. But fair enough.
Well, in my contract was still a September release mentioned. That´s why I had a big hustle to get all files done. Anyways, hope the French fans appreciate it. :D
Can I buy the standard edition of this book yet? I'm fiending for some locusta art and some intensively fact-checked writing.
Still not yet :(
I find it increasingly odd that we haven't even had an announcement when it's already out elsewhere.
Same here of course. A bit pissed, cos I wanted to give it as x-mass present to several people and would have wanted to be part of the anniversary thingy.
Still think that SideShow holds it back until their SE is out and sold (haha). If they produce the same kind of garbage as the Big Chap bust, then I have HIGH hopes ::)
Anyway, is still hope that at least the hardcore fanbase is a bit stocked and I can assure that it is worth the wait and the goodies to follow after release (I still have to hold back, what drives me crazy).
I wish i could afford it.. i love alien goodies
Still no word on this?
At this rate I could have bought the French version and learned the language to read it, and still had time to spare before the English version comes out :)
It's interesting, I figured that the official announcement of the "new canon" for AVP would be released alongside this book but if this book is never released then I guess the "all EU is canon" is still the official franchise motto. :P
I wouldn't consider this book to be a source book like DC and Marvel's official source books, despite many fans claiming that this is a source book. I'm sure it'll be a neat thing to have though.
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/collectibles/alien-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-insight-collectibles-902252/?affiliate=Darkness (http://affiliates.sideshowtoy.com/Tracker.aspx?aid=3330&sku=902252&cid=-1)
Apparently due to ship Apr 2015 - May 2015.
Thanks to SM for dropping me a link.
Does anybody know yet whether this $325 edition will have anything the standard edition won't? I don't really care about fancy covers or stuff like that, I just want the same information between the pages.
I'm wondering if maybe the reproduction memorabilia (the Burke comm card etc.) might not be in the standard edition. I can't think the actual info on the page will be any different though.
But I'd love to know for sure.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 14, 2015, 08:42:08 AM
Does anybody know yet whether this $325 edition will have anything the standard edition won't? I don't really care about fancy covers or stuff like that, I just want the same information between the pages.
$325? for a book? you must be joking, I wouldn't pay 20 for it. :laugh:
This book covers all 4 current movies, right? Seems a bit of a waste to release it in its current state if Blomkamp is about to categorically hose half of the content with his new movie.
Unless, of course, he isn't going to. ;)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 28, 2015, 09:00:37 PM
This book covers all 4 current movies, right? Seems a bit of a waste to release it in its current state if Blomkamp is about to categorically hose half of the content with his new movie.
Unless, of course, he isn't going to. ;)
Or y'know it's still fine since they're two separate canonicities.
Or if the movies still exist and this book was written long before.
Has there been any more word on this? I'd really like to get it, if/when it actually hits shelves.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Feb 28, 2015, 09:13:27 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 28, 2015, 09:00:37 PM
This book covers all 4 current movies, right? Seems a bit of a waste to release it in its current state if Blomkamp is about to categorically hose half of the content with his new movie.
Unless, of course, he isn't going to. ;)
Or y'know it's still fine since they're two separate canonicities.
That word. I'm not sure you know what it means.
I suppose the rumored "new canon timeline" from Fox will also be put on hold, especially if the new film might be a retcon.
What rumored timeline?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 02:27:30 AM
What rumored timeline?
Are you joking?
Prometheus 2 and A5 are rumoured to be connected, as well as A5 being suggested to overwrite A3 would constitute an alternate timeline.
However, I don't think anything in the recent news will change this book if it is a guide to the universe of the original four alien films.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 02:27:30 AM
What rumored timeline?
The timeline that says all EU is not canon, except for the Titan books and Fire & Stone.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 01, 2015, 02:35:03 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 02:27:30 AM
What rumored timeline?
Are you joking?
Prometheus 2 and A5 are rumoured to be connected, as well as A5 being suggested to overwrite A3 would constitute an alternate timeline.
However, I don't think anything in the recent news will change this book if it is a guide to the universe of the original four alien films.
I got the impression that predxeno was referring to an actual printed timeline book (like this one (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_New_Essential_Chronology) for Star Wars).
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 01, 2015, 02:44:38 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 02:27:30 AM
What rumored timeline?
The timeline that says all EU is not canon, except for the Titan books and Fire & Stone.
& Alien: Isolation
Do you think that'll be the "EU" for the four original films + Prometheus in this book? And they'll create an even newer EU for Blompkamp's Alien (If necessary) or will Blompkamp's Alien follow this "new EU" too?
Assuming Blomkamp's movie is a new alternate timeline, wouldn't that also clash with the Titan Publishing books which are post Alien 3 and Resurrection?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 01, 2015, 03:11:00 AM
Assuming Blomkamp's movie is a new alternate timeline, wouldn't that also clash with the Titan Publishing books which are post Alien 3 and Resurrection?
I wouldn't really say "clash". It'll be like what's happening with Star Trek: the old EU (post-Resurrection Titan novels, etc.) continues in the books, while the films go the "soft reboot" route.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 01, 2015, 03:42:31 AM
I wouldn't really say "clash". It'll be like what's happening with Star Trek: the old EU (post-Resurrection Titan novels, etc.) continues in the books, while the films go the "soft reboot" route.
I don't get the Star Trek analogy so.. you lost me.
Oh, sorry. What I mean is that the new Star Trek movies essentially were a soft reboot, where time travel created a new timeline. The movies from here on out are set in that universe, but the old universe of classic Star Trek (the shows, old movies, etc.) has carried on in the form of novels.
That what I see happenig with Aliens. Titan will continue exploring the post-Resurrection world in print, even if the new movies ignore those films and establish their own separate timeline.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 01, 2015, 03:11:00 AM
Assuming Blomkamp's movie is a new alternate timeline, wouldn't that also clash with the Titan Publishing books which are post Alien 3 and Resurrection?
Only one of the Titan books is post Alien3.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 03:55:34 AM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 01, 2015, 03:11:00 AM
Assuming Blomkamp's movie is a new alternate timeline, wouldn't that also clash with the Titan Publishing books which are post Alien 3 and Resurrection?
Only one of the Titan books is post Alien3.
The upcoming Rage War trilogy is more than likely also post-Resurrection.
How do we know?
Hell, the bulk of the EU is technically "post Alien3" but isn't reliant on it, even if Alien3 got wiped out the vast majority of the EU could still work within the "new" timeline.
We can go back and do up the James Moore quotes on Aliens Experiene, but, honestly, I don't think it's worth it. I don't even see what all this debating is for. The films and EU have existed in parallel for decades, Wilks-Billie/Big Deletion ductape non-withstanding. I was just making the Star Trek comparison as a way of posing out how the films and novels/comics can go their own way.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Mar 01, 2015, 04:14:24 AM
I was just making the Star Trek comparison as a way of posing out how the films and novels/comics can go their own way.
To be truthful, the Star Trek EU is non-canon in any capacity. Paramount has even announced that but they said that in the case of the written works by Roddenberry, that's more or less up to him at the time when he was alive.
But assuming we do get different timelines, and still sticking with the analogy you mentioned.. where would this put the AvP films? Would they be their own universe which was built off the first two Predator films and the three Alien films, Resurrection not withstanding of course? I don't see a reason why they couldn't/wouldn't be assuming we have alternate timelines going on.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 04:02:10 AMHow do we know?
The author of
Sea of Sorrows (the post-
Resurrection novel) has stated it follows on from his book.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 28, 2015, 10:49:23 PM
Has there been any more word on this? I'd really like to get it, if/when it actually hits shelves.
The French edition has already been released. No idea what the holdup is with the English edition.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 01, 2015, 10:43:28 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 01, 2015, 04:02:10 AMHow do we know?
The author of Sea of Sorrows (the post-Resurrection novel) has stated it follows on from his book.
Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. :)
Well, well. It does take a loooong time, but it´s coming.
Just as a small update, for technical reasons (and I knew that from the beginning) the flip cover for the SE became a slip cover ;)
https://www.sideshowtoy.com/collectibles/alien-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-insight-collectibles-902252/ (https://www.sideshowtoy.com/collectibles/alien-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-insight-collectibles-902252/)
Nice. That slip case does look awesome, even in close-up. I quite like the minimalist grey cover art for the actual book inside too.
That does look gorgeous. And those images make me tempted.
But I'm really not going to spend that much.
Ask them if they can send you a copy for "review purposes". :laugh:
I wanna know who would spend $325 for ONE book. Unless they have a steep discount available, I can't even touch that price. :(
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Mar 05, 2015, 06:58:34 PM
Ask them if they can send you a copy for "review purposes". :laugh:
I'm not that cheeky.
You could probably get away with it, tho. :D ;D
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 05, 2015, 08:14:17 PM
I wanna know who would spend $325 for ONE book. Unless they have a steep discount available, I can't even touch that price. :(
I bought some of Giger's books for about that. Each.
Lucky you.
Woo being employed.
I have a feeling they're going to release this for the 30th anniversary of Aliens. I mean it could come out before 2016 but still as a 30th anniversary tie-in. I really hope we give James Cameron's masterpiece the celebration it deserves.
I expect a new limited edition Bluray release with some new features like additional commentaries plus the full reunion footage. Some promotional material for the new true sequel would be great too...
Quote from: SiL on Mar 06, 2015, 01:21:26 AM
Woo being employed.
Hell, i'm employed and couldn't dare spend that much all at once.
Woo being employed and being able to save.
I just spent $200 on an AVPR Inkworks Master Trading Card Set, so I can't spend $$ for awhile now. :(
What was in that?
locusta, I notice from those new images there are a few pullout tidbits inside (Space Beast, whatever that burnt sheet of paper is). Are you able to say if they will be in the standard version, or are the y exclusive to the Collector's Edition?
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 06, 2015, 03:21:56 AMI really hope we give James Cameron's masterpiece the celebration it deserves.
Lolwut?
This book isn't about
Aliens. It's about the franchise as a whole. You know, those four films we have currently? It covers all of them,
Alien 3 and
Resurrection included, plus a bit more besides.
Not to mention
Aliens gets plenty of credit as it is.
I'd be 100% willing to buy the book- but I'm afraid it'll say some B.S like "The crossbreed Aliens are more intelligent" or Bishop in Alien3 is an android- or even worse, they tie in AVP and ACM as Canon, or that recent awful novel trilogy.
If someone could guarantee me it has none of these qualities then I'd buy it otherwise the whole thing's a waste.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 06, 2015, 12:16:26 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 05, 2015, 08:14:17 PM
I wanna know who would spend $325 for ONE book. Unless they have a steep discount available, I can't even touch that price. :(
I bought some of Giger's books for about that. Each.
Were they signed by him?
If not, why were they so expensive?
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 06, 2015, 09:25:01 AM
I'd be 100% willing to buy the book- but I'm afraid it'll say some B.S like "The crossbreed Aliens are more intelligent" or Bishop in Alien3 is an android- or even worse, they tie in AVP and ACM as Canon, or that recent awful novel trilogy.
If someone could guarantee me it has none of these qualities then I'd buy it otherwise the whole thing's a waste.
Or you could just download it illegally like you do with movies, right?
Quote from: Russ on Mar 06, 2015, 10:11:31 AM
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 06, 2015, 09:25:01 AM
I'd be 100% willing to buy the book- but I'm afraid it'll say some B.S like "The crossbreed Aliens are more intelligent" or Bishop in Alien3 is an android- or even worse, they tie in AVP and ACM as Canon, or that recent awful novel trilogy.
If someone could guarantee me it has none of these qualities then I'd buy it otherwise the whole thing's a waste.
Or you could just download it illegally like you do with movies, right?
I only download shit movies to laugh at them.
This hasn't even been seen by most of the general public and isn't a film.
Comeon kids - I can see the dig here and it's not appreciated.
Plus - http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=3.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=3.0)
Quote- No discussion of P2P downloading. This includes discussion about downloading movies, music, games, software etc. Providing links to such places is strictly not allowed.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 06, 2015, 10:08:09 AM
Quote from: SiL on Mar 06, 2015, 12:16:26 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 05, 2015, 08:14:17 PM
I wanna know who would spend $325 for ONE book. Unless they have a steep discount available, I can't even touch that price. :(
I bought some of Giger's books for about that. Each.
Were they signed by him?
If not, why were they so expensive?
I'm curious too. Why the high price?
Enough. Now.
Son of Kane has been spoken to, warned and the offending posts removed. It is done.
Yeah, I honestly don't understand why the book is so expensive. Even when the regular edition comes out, it'll still probably be $50. I'll wait a few months until I can find a used copy for a few bucks on Amazon Marketplace. ;D Fox/Dark Horse got over $100 out of me for all those Fire and Stone issues, I've shown my support.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 06, 2015, 08:15:55 AM
What was in that?
Well, the basic base card set, most of the rare cards (including autograph cards, piecework cards containing clothing worn by the actors, and even a EXTREMELY limited edition mini-press sheet); the only things missing were some sketch cards and the Dealer Marketing Packet I posted about in The Marketplace.
What's a mini press sheet? The poster?
Kind of, in these kinds of trading card sets; there's a set of 9 cards that, when you put together, is kinda like a puzzle that forms a larger picture:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbs3.ebaystatic.com%2Fd%2Fl225%2Fm%2FmK8Ecir1W3tN46G4zRL_bIQ.jpg&hash=b2a0b09b54fb335ab0bd74fb160a3cf7cb937676)
The mini-press sheet is essentially that puzzle, but without being cut up into individual cards; it's nothing particularly new, and seems to be more of a "Look at the cool, limited edition thing I have."
Is this thing ever going to come out? I'm considering just ordering the French version to admire Locusta's models.
John Mullaney, one of the artists for the book posted this on FB:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11062358_836606169758662_3788752786576022440_n.jpg?oh=a0d87014953d8b846d8ca6601669f896&oe=559773C1&__gda__=1440549274_5b53a22c0d1302c594a0c06d50b4c478)
Very excited to release the poster for my new making-of film which documents the production process behind the new APC artwork commissioned for the forthcoming title Alien: The Weyland-Yutani Report. 'APC Cutaway' has been produced in association with Fox and Insight Editions & will be available to watch online. Details on release dates to follow at John R. Mullaney illustration
https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-R-Mullaney-illustration/106948306047099 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-R-Mullaney-illustration/106948306047099)
Well at least we know for sure the book's still on its way.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 16, 2015, 11:27:33 AM
John Mullaney, one of the artists for the book posted this on FB:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11062358_836606169758662_3788752786576022440_n.jpg?oh=a0d87014953d8b846d8ca6601669f896&oe=559773C1&__gda__=1440549274_5b53a22c0d1302c594a0c06d50b4c478)
Very excited to release the poster for my new making-of film which documents the production process behind the new APC artwork commissioned for the forthcoming title Alien: The Weyland-Yutani Report. 'APC Cutaway' has been produced in association with Fox and Insight Editions & will be available to watch online. Details on release dates to follow at John R. Mullaney illustration
https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-R-Mullaney-illustration/106948306047099 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-R-Mullaney-illustration/106948306047099)
Nice find. Totally stoked. Perhaps this book will be an expanded version of the one already released...???
The book is apparently out this month. The fancy pants version, at least. Locusta received his copy
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11401003_822534481167142_7453594580981414356_n.jpg?oh=08ba74417fa54072b4ff92b8faeb82f7&oe=5601E4B6)
Some more pictures from vehicle illustrator John R. Mullaney
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11391107_861741050567817_2331800496329854589_n.jpg?oh=0e62b0a24e45823c8b6194e13149f4f8&oe=55E99555)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11407218_861741007234488_3429229820450104062_n.jpg?oh=aa99277e1956163b6b935cce0996f8ab&oe=55F7E529&__gda__=1443425699_413e173c4165744bd334cb2c5442d1ee)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11038378_861741470567775_5293807199314362178_n.jpg?oh=7217448231320e3fbdc042860da3b5bf&oe=55FE5226&__gda__=1446253072_f9b798bed0dd6b61cef03daf370b8472)
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/10641110_861740980567824_7079765487368986918_n.jpg?oh=fb20a986aa06b1a6c480edab3636156d&oe=55FC700C)
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11377108_861741170567805_5793628749024718756_n.jpg?oh=e73d2754af73294ec2b6e6c3f0e6bcb8&oe=55EB31C4)
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10539232_861741160567806_319191203109776497_n.jpg?oh=6ffb3f24196f5e3c6c8912412fdf62d5&oe=55FB1568)
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11267372_861741157234473_3819600606051862989_n.jpg?oh=5e3e06612faabfa546de493c70705689&oe=55FC8BBB)
It might have already been answered, but where's the going to be on sale at?
I've only seen it for sale from Sideshow website at the minute.
Is it still $325?
Besides vehicles,does this have cut-away images of the various Alien form's internal organs.I'd like to see that.
It truly looks gorgeous!! I wish I could nab a copy.
i didn't see any character profiles on any of the humans or artificial persons from the series,surely they would be also included?
Quote from: Elmazalman on Jun 06, 2015, 08:24:24 AM
i didn't see any character profiles on any of the humans or artificial persons from the series,surely they would be also included?
They are included.
I do love this, and it looks beautiful, I just really can't justify spending so much on a book.
Still crossing my fingers for a cheapo version :)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 07, 2015, 02:53:39 PM
I do love this, and it looks beautiful, I just really can't justify spending so much on a book.
Still crossing my fingers for a cheapo version :)
Me too. It looks absolutely gorgeous but I just can't justify spending that much money on a book. I wonder how well it is actually going to sell.
When the standard comes out, I'll be all over it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 07, 2015, 03:19:07 PMWhen the standard comes out, I'll be all over it.
Same. Like cheese on a Big Mac.
Will the standard version include all the physical stuff (Jones's vet report, Burke's call card)?
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jun 07, 2015, 05:43:50 PM
Will the standard version include all the physical stuff (Jones's vet report, Burke's call card)?
Unknown. We still don't really know anything about the English standard edition. I've asked them if they have any new information to provide.
Overall, this looks AWESOME. I can justify spending much money on a book, as long as it is the first edition or just simply extremely rare
however I will just wait for a standard copy like many others have mentioned already! ;)
This is so awesome! Any idea if it features Prometheus stuff?
It definitely features Prometheus information (they mispelled Millburn's name! :D). I wonder what kind of Prometheus extras will it include.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jun 09, 2015, 02:32:53 AM
It definitely features Prometheus information (they mispelled Millburn's name! :D). I wonder what kind of Prometheus extras will it include.
Well that explains the delay. I'm sure it'll come out once they fix that typo...
I'm curious about how this book will be treated once Alien 5 comes out. If it is a full on retcon, then I would hope they include all of the A3, and AR material in the book somehow in the 2nd edition. But it would be difficult to maintain the "WY files" vibe to it if we are posed with alternate time lines...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jun 09, 2015, 03:17:18 AM
If it is a full on retcon, then I would hope they include all of the A3, and AR material in the book somehow in the 2nd edition. But it would be difficult to maintain the "WY files" vibe to it if we are posed with alternate time lines...
Given Blomkamp's statements, I reckon it is.
Thing is with source books, they usually are printed long before a new installment is arrived. Like the Marvel Handbook Guides, they are printed before certain events are published, and when retcons happen.. more or less they are treated as authorative until the retcon takes place. So really... I see that happening here.
This will be authorative... until Blomkamp's sequel comes out and re-assigns Alien 3 and Resurrection.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was changed in some way to accommodate Alien 5. We know Rage Wars was.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jun 09, 2015, 03:17:18 AMIf it is a full on retcon, then I would hope they include all of the A3, and AR material in the book somehow in the 2nd edition.
What are you on about? The book already has
Alien 3 and
Alien Resurrection stuff in it. There are pictures of that content in this thread.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 09, 2015, 07:25:47 AMI wouldn't be surprised if it was changed in some way to accommodate Alien 5. We know Rage Wars was.
Difficult to see how they could, unless the new film is somehow going to ludicrously work around the pre-existing movies.
Probably better to just release it as it is and not worry about the fact it won't fit with the new movie.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 09, 2015, 07:25:47 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if it was changed in some way to accommodate Alien 5. We know Rage Wars was.
Wait, what?
Why accommodate for a movie if it's supposed to ignore two movies?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jun 09, 2015, 12:24:56 PMWhy accommodate for a movie if it's supposed to ignore two movies?
I'd be quite surprised if they did. Judging by the timeline included in the book, the info regarding the third and fourth films is quite ingrained into it. Be pretty hard to just lop it out without affecting the book. Plus, it's already been released as-is in some countries.
The only way I can see it being edited to fit the new film is if Blomkamp's movie somehow
isn't a retcon and happens around the existing movies.
Might be as simple as keeping the Aliens or the worlds or the company or whatever else in line with how they're going to be portrayed in the new film. Even if it's a different timeline, they probably don't want things straying too far off the path of what we're going to be seeing over the next few years.
I'm still trying to wrap my head to how Rage War is accommodating for Alienkamp (I refuse to call it Alien 5 since officially, it's not being called that) because that would imply that a script has already been produced, and that Lebbon has looked at it or that Fox has looked at it and given him a list as to what to do and not to do in order not to give anything away. For this movie to be set in the Resurrection era, more or less would set it in conflict with the upcoming movie UNLESS... references to Resurrection were removed.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 09, 2015, 12:40:58 PM
I'd be quite surprised if they did. Judging by the timeline included in the book, the info regarding the third and fourth films is quite ingrained into it. Be pretty hard to just lop it out without affecting the book. Plus, it's already been released as-is in some countries.
I would be surprised if they had added Alienkamp to this book as well, though I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen. Working Alienkamp around Alien 3 and Resurrection, and keeping in mind of the things Blomkamp said is pretty hard to do.. well, not really since the whole Bobby Ewing route is an easy, easy but cheap cop out. But even if those were retconned to be dreams (I'd be pretty mad if they were and just not ignored-- not because I hate 3 and Resurrection, I love 3 but Resurrection is another story) then how would the source book keep dreams as "real" in-universe or even have a reason to keep them? Why would new EU material so much as even reference them aside from dreams them?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 09, 2015, 12:40:58 PM
The only way I can see it being edited to fit the new film is if Blomkamp's movie somehow isn't a retcon and happens around the existing movies.
Personally, I hope the movie ignores Alien 3 and Resurrection and has no relation to them aside from the characters. I say this not because I hate Alien 3 and Resurrection, but it would cement what I've long since believed-- alternate timelines. Everything would have an assigned place. Call me selfish, but if it does what other franchises have done (you know which ones since I reference them), then I would be very happy and no one would be wrong in which path they follow.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Jun 09, 2015, 01:01:30 PM
Might be as simple as keeping the Aliens or the worlds or the company or whatever else in line with how they're going to be portrayed in the new film. Even if it's a different timeline, they probably don't want things straying too far off the path of what we're going to be seeing over the next few years.
That might be the likely scenario. Everything which Blomkamp is saying so far suggest that this is a different timeline. Or as Hicks refers to it.. an alternate sequel. Having that said, Nightmare, I think you are on the ball with that statement.
The only way I can see Alien 5 being put into new EU stuff, or Weyland-Yutani Report is if they print out a second edition which keeps Alien 3's concepts (not necessary the events of Fury-161) and outright ignore Alien Resurrection.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jun 09, 2015, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 09, 2015, 07:25:47 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if it was changed in some way to accommodate Alien 5. We know Rage Wars was.
Wait, what?
Why accommodate for a movie if it's supposed to ignore two movies?
I don't know what was changed. All I know is something was changed because of the new film. Same for Fire and Stone 2, if I recall rightly.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 09, 2015, 02:25:42 PM
Same for Fire and Stone 2, if I recall rightly.
Are we sure we're getting Fire and Stone 2, because from what I remember of Randy's tweet, he said that another RESTART was called in order.
In the end, we will probably have some sort of volume published which traces the various different alternate EU threads that have been explored over time through various media. Someone needs to make sense of all this for the uninitiated. That would be a valuable guide to the Alien Universe...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jun 09, 2015, 05:05:18 PM
In the end, we will probably have some sort of volume published which traces the various different alternate EU threads that have been explored over time through various media.
As cool as that sounds, I doubt it would happen.
Of course, never say never. But it seems unlikely.
This along with the colonial marine handbook would be a great addition to any aliens fans library for reference. does anybody know how much the standard edition will cost.
I'm down with standard version as well. The Alien on the front is bordering on cheesy. Just give me a nice glossy dust-jacket thank you.
Quote from: Murfy426 on Jun 11, 2015, 04:29:06 PM
This along with the colonial marine handbook would be a great addition to any aliens fans library for reference. does anybody know how much the standard edition will cost.
Not a clue. It was originally intended to be a $50 hard cover book.
The only reason that springs to mind as to why they're holding off on announcing a standard edition is that they're trying to peddle these pricey ones first, because if they announced a budget $50 version I'm guessing a lot of people would just go for that instead.
I imagine that's the case. I believe it actually cost them a bit to put together so they need to recoup the costs, I guess.
I contacted Insight Editions through Facebook, to ask about the standard edition.
This is their reply:
"Hello (...),
We now have The Weyland Yutani Report available through our website here:
http://www.insighteditions.com/Alien-The-Weyland-Yutani-Report/dp/B00YT18PPI
At this time, there is no plan for a standard edition, though.
Thanks!
Insight team"
So there you have it, for what it's worth.
^I knew it.
:(
I guess I'm getting the French edition then. Good thing I went to a French-only elementary school.
I wonder why they called it a Collector's Edition then? That promo card they gave out at NYCC 2013 did give a price of $50.00, but the ISBN is the same as the CE.
Quote from: HeavenHeart on Jun 13, 2015, 10:50:00 PM
So there you have it, for what it's worth.
They're just peddling the fancy edition, trying to push the sales. A lot of money went into it. Everyone I can think of that I've spoken to on the down has said one will be following.
They'd get a LOT more money if they made the "fancy" edition more affordable; the special versions of Star Wars guide books like Jedi Path or Book of Sith are expensive but they're still under $100.
Nice enough looking book....but no way would I part with that kind of cash for a book.
Hugely over priced.
Quote from: drsmuts on Jun 23, 2015, 12:00:06 PM
Nice enough looking book....but no way would I part with that kind of cash for a book.
Hugely over priced.
How much was it.
http://affiliates.sideshowtoy.com/Tracker.aspx?aid=3330&sku=902252&cid=-1
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2015/06/08/alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-preview/
Quote from: THE CITY HUNTER on Jun 23, 2015, 02:00:06 PM
Quote from: drsmuts on Jun 23, 2015, 12:00:06 PM
Nice enough looking book....but no way would I part with that kind of cash for a book.
Hugely over priced.
How much was it.
Price quoted on line at Sideshow... $325 dollars! Checked out the french YouTube review and it's a nice book...but not worth the massive outlay.
If not released as a standard edition, this is a waste of effort.
I imagine they just want to milk as much cash out of this fancy pants release as they can.
I'd also be curious to see the sales.
Yep, still hope it gets a wider recognition by the fans
I can buy the french edition from Amazon.co.uk for about £28. The price difference between the hardback and the special edition seems a bit over the top for me.
On Amazon UK you can also find Alien, El informe Weyland-Yutani (Spanish). :)
From the text in the back cover, it seems that it doesn't bring any extras.
Quote from: HeavenHeart on Jul 01, 2015, 06:05:30 PMFrom the text in the back cover, it seems that it doesn't bring any extras.
That kinda sucks.
Just an FYI but I'm trying to sort out a discount code for the book. I don't think we'll be seeing a standard edition for a while.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 02, 2015, 11:27:28 AMJust an FYI but I'm trying to sort out a discount code for the book.
?
I'm attempting to get you guys discount for the book.
Ah, wasn't sure if you were talking about just yourself, or all of us :)
EXCELLENT. Cheers, Corporal!
Ah, sorry. I should have been more clear!
I thought it would be a good idea, help take the sting off the price, as I don't think we'll see a standard edition for a while.
It would be nice. While I could afford to spend the whole hog, I just can't justify parting with that much cash for a book, even one as lovingly crafted as this.
So, in case it wasn't obvious, I eagerly await.
That would be a no, I'm afraid. Sorry folk. :-[
Ah, that's too bad. Thanks for trying anyway.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 02, 2015, 03:13:01 PM
That would be a no, I'm afraid. Sorry folk. :-[
No worries, would have needed one helluva discount code to have made a difference anyway.
Thanks for making the effort!
One day, maybe...
Thank you for trying, Corporal Hicks! :)
Thank you for trying, Corporal Hicks! :)
Quote from: HeavenHeart on Jul 02, 2015, 07:49:49 PM
Thank you for trying, Corporal Hicks! :)
Thank you for trying, Corporal Hicks! :)
This. Tx.
Thanks for trying.
I just can't see what justifies a price tag of well over 300 dollars compared to the standard version. A fancy cover and some inserts but that's it.
Yeah, thanks for trying Corp. Hicks. Maybe they'll lower the price of the book of it doesn't sell well. :-\
I've managed to get a copy (thanks to Locusta) so I'll be doing a nice in-depth preview of the book when it arrives so we have a better idea of what's inside it.
Ah excellent, look forward to it.
And just to confirm, there are currently no plans for a standard edition of this book.
Lame :(
Plan b, then. Find Corporal, kill him, take his book.
No offence.
I warn you...I have a Pulse Rifle.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 07, 2015, 01:56:52 PM
I warn you...I have a Pulse Rifle.
And I got a plasma caster! My ship's faster than Huda's as well.
Must have this book in my trophy belt!
(Lookin' forward to the review by the way. You know, just to see how valuable the trophy will be.)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 07, 2015, 01:31:48 PM
And just to confirm, there are currently no plans for a standard edition of this book.
Huh, figures. Tell us whether this book is any good then, will ya? ;) I wanna know if it's really worth the overpriced $325 price tag.
Fear not. I'm going to be a detailed preview of it.
*SIgh* I was really hoping for a standard edition >:( I think I'll wait for Hicks' detailed preview and others before making my decision whether to buy this or not.
I've watched the youtube reviews of the French edition, one which goes through every page of the book............and it's not worth 32 dollars let alone 325.
Some great art throughout....but that's it. Lots of photos seen hundreds of time before.
I'd buy a standard softback edition for about 20 pounds, no more.
But one of the main ideas behind this book is the words written - it details the history of Weyland Yutani and presumably fleshes out the history of the company and the world behind ALIEN. Hopefully that adds some more value.
I think saying it's not worth 32 dollars is a bit harsh. Sure, it includes a lot of old images...but theres such a wealth of fantastic CGI art by Locusta and those great cross sections and the number of physical collectibles (Burke's card, and couple of pages from Morse's book???) that come with the book. You have to be enthusiastic about that sort of stuff though.
Yeah, I'd be willing to pay a fair bit for the book because it's a neat item with lots of nerd value.
Just not willing to pay upwards of $300.
Quote from: drsmuts on Jul 09, 2015, 07:55:40 PM
I've watched the youtube reviews of the French edition, one which goes through every page of the book............and it's not worth 32 dollars let alone 325.
Some great art throughout....but that's it. Lots of photos seen hundreds of time before.
I'd buy a standard softback edition for about 20 pounds, no more.
Never saw nor found this French review. Link please, thanks
Quote from: locusta on Jul 10, 2015, 01:45:31 PM
Quote from: drsmuts on Jul 09, 2015, 07:55:40 PM
I've watched the youtube reviews of the French edition, one which goes through every page of the book............and it's not worth 32 dollars let alone 325.
Some great art throughout....but that's it. Lots of photos seen hundreds of time before.
I'd buy a standard softback edition for about 20 pounds, no more.
Never saw nor found this French review. Link please, thanks
C'est ici monsieur Locusta:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Rx4Hxxjbk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Rx4Hxxjbk)
Although this appears to be the Spanish edition.
Sorry, I made a typo in my earlier post...I meant I'd pay no more than £25, not £20. That also refers just to the standard softback without the extras.
The art is lovely, especially the cross sections.....but a lot of other books have this. I think $325 for the special book even with the extras and fancy cover is really pushing it to be honest.
No standard edition? That's crazy, a book is not even worth printing if only a few can afford it.
Yeah, they should have just done what the Star Wars books are doing these days and just made it $70 or so with a cheaper cover, going to Sideshow Collectibles was just plain overkill.
Yeah,£25 sounds about right.No way that book is worth $325,even with the fancy cover and bonus materials,just exploiting the die-hard fan's wallets.The book on Jaws (2011) had the good sense to offer fans a choice of limited hardback with bonus DVD or standard edition so all the fans could benefit and not a select few.
To be fair, it's prolly SM's signed "Certificate of Canonicity" that's responsible for the exorbitant price.
I'll be honest, part of me still suspects we will get a cheaper edition. I get the feeling they've put this price tag on it and are worried they won't sell any if people know a cheaper version is coming, so they're claiming this is it to try and push a few more into buying.
Could well be wrong, but that's what I suspect.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 11, 2015, 01:50:09 PM
I'll be honest, part of me still suspects we will get a cheaper edition. I get the feeling they've put this price tag on it and are worried they won't sell any if people know a cheaper version is coming, so they're claiming this is it to try and push a few more into buying.
Could well be wrong, but that's what I suspect.
Yes i agree,a low act if true.I'll just wait for a public Library to secure a copy of the standard edition-when it's available.
Some perspective, if I may. Go and have a look at what other Alien related merchandise Sideshow sells. Things that cost hundreds of dollars to sit your shelf and look cool. The WYR also costs hundreds of dollars and sits on you shelf and looks cool. The added bonus being a 160 book to read. And of all the sculpted Alien works sold by Sideshow - this is the cheapest.
Yes, it's out of the price range of a lot of fans. But so are the aforementioned sculptures and there doesn't seem to be any negativity aimed at them.
The difference here is that a majority of fans are wanting to buy this literally just for the book and the information it contains. Many have no interest in the fancy sculpted cover that will 'sit on the shelf and look cool'. It's just the book we want, hence why the price tag is just not viable.
Personally I think the cover is horrendous.
Yep, no interest in the cover as on a shelf it just sits hidden surely?
It's the contents that people are interested in and at 160 pages it's not exactly huge in page count.
I paid £100 for the James Bond archives book by Taschen (which was very costly and to be honest, I regret buying it now) but it's got over 600 pages in it.
Quote from: SM on Jul 11, 2015, 11:40:26 PM
Some perspective, if I may. Go and have a look at what other Alien related merchandise Sideshow sells. Things that cost hundreds of dollars to sit your shelf and look cool. The WYR also costs hundreds of dollars and sits on you shelf and looks cool. The added bonus being a 160 book to read. And of all the sculpted Alien works sold by Sideshow - this is the cheapest.
Yes, it's out of the price range of a lot of fans. But so are the aforementioned sculptures and there doesn't seem to be any negativity aimed at them.
You seem somewhat familiar. Have I threatened you before?
Quote from: SM on Jul 11, 2015, 11:40:26 PMSome perspective, if I may. Go and have a look at what other Alien related merchandise Sideshow sells. Things that cost hundreds of dollars to sit your shelf and look cool. The WYR also costs hundreds of dollars and sits on you shelf and looks cool. The added bonus being a 160 book to read. And of all the sculpted Alien works sold by Sideshow - this is the cheapest.
But you're forgetting that other countries
have got stripped-down, bare-bones editions.
That's where the gripe comes from. We have to shell out for this when other people can buy the meat and potatoes of it for much less.
This book could have been a popular choice amongst fans if published as a standard edition-at a reasonable and more sensible price.As others have said,it's the contents that are of interest to us-not the fancy bells and whistles which add nothing to the reading enjoyment of the book itself.At $325 the few who do purchase this book would be loath to use it for reference ( which is it's purpose ) lest they damage it from constant manhandling.
Curious. Does ALIEN: The Weyland-Yutani Report borrow some or a lot from the CM: Technical Manual?
Very little.
Things like the model numbers of USCM equipment were sourced from the CMTM, but not much else.
Quote from: SM on Jul 16, 2015, 12:45:41 AM
Very little.
Things like the model numbers of USCM equipment were sourced from the CMTM, but not much else.
Interesting.
The weapons and gear, for example - how is it presented? Are the explanations, statistics and mechanisms more futuristic and advanced than then somewhat semi-"contemporary" stuff we got in CMTM or about the same?
Presentation is shown at 1:00 onwards.
Off topic for a sec, but good to see you back SM!
Oh my god I forgot this was an anomaly.
I've missed you.
Quote from: SM on Jul 16, 2015, 10:19:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wfq3BYAbFY
Presentation is shown at 1:00 onwards.
Cool.
Looks really flashy and almost a little bit over the top, at least compared to the CMTM. Curious though to flip through that thing.
Is there any chance the regular edition of the book was cancelled because producers are concerned it will conflict with Alien 5?
Quote from: predxeno on Jul 18, 2015, 12:14:55 AM
Is there any chance the regular edition of the book was cancelled because producers are concerned it will conflict with Alien 5?
Why should a book adhering to old canon be an issue when a movie establishing a new canon that's two or three years away be a problem enough to warrant cancellation for a standard edition book when the new movie won't be out for a good while?
I suppose for the same reason why The Rage War trilogy of books being released for the old canon had to be edited so it didn't contradict details of Alien 5's new canon. Shit don't make sense. :-\
Quote from: predxeno on Jul 18, 2015, 01:03:20 AM
I suppose for the same reason why The Rage War trilogy of books being released for the old canon had to be edited so it didn't contradict details of Alien 5's new canon. Shit don't make sense. :-\
Assuming Blomkamp will be completely ignoring Alien 3 and Resurrection, then his movie would regardless conflict with Rage War anyway. Wouldn't it? So that would already render Rage War obsolete.
Yeah, but they had to edit Rage War because they said there would be contradictions between Rage War and Alien 5 despite the fact that they took place in two different continuities.
Quote from: predxeno on Jul 18, 2015, 01:56:44 AM
Yeah, but they had to edit Rage War because they said there would be contradictions between Rage War and Alien 5 despite the fact that they took place in two different continuities.
I'm still wondering about that. I recall Lebbon saying that the changes were pretty minor, which brings up all sorts of questions, especially since the previous Titan trilogy had been edited to stay in canon with A3 and AR.
Man, this is confusing.
He said some changes were made. We don't know to what extent.
My copy arrived this morning. Didn't have time to do anything except unpack it. It's absolutely massive.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11223705_922552861125487_7818468612248903472_n.jpg?oh=99a8b1526cf8ad518c04ec81d8b1c32a&oe=56116114)
I have a horrible feeling your review of it will make the decision to not spend so much on it that bit harder :(
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jul 18, 2015, 02:00:16 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jul 18, 2015, 01:56:44 AM
Yeah, but they had to edit Rage War because they said there would be contradictions between Rage War and Alien 5 despite the fact that they took place in two different continuities.
I'm still wondering about that. I recall Lebbon saying that the changes were pretty minor, which brings up all sorts of questions, especially since the previous Titan trilogy had been edited to stay in canon with A3 and AR.
Perhaps we're looking at this all wrong; perhaps Rage War and the previous books by Titan will be made to be part of the new canon instead of the old canon, that would fix a lot of things. What references to the old canon were in the Titan books, out of curiosity?
Sea of Sorrows talked about the USM and the Auriga crash.
WYR was in production long before Blomkamp's film came along. The new film had no impact on it.
So how is Blomkamp's film coming along?
HuDaFuk said that you're apparently working on it as a consultant. Similar to what you did on the Weyland Yutani report.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jul 19, 2015, 12:45:30 PMHuDaFuk said that you're apparently working on it as a consultant.
:laugh: That was just a joke, I don't make it my business to keep tabs on SM.
I know as much about the Blomkamp film as anyone else.
Nice to see you posting again, SM! :)
I went to London Film and Comic Con yesterday so still haven't had a chance to really dig into the book but I flicked through it. The bulk of that huge package was the fancy-pants Alien cover. Very very cool, very heavy. The book itself is still pretty damn thick - bigger than the Vault. Lots of super cool artwork by Locusta - didn't see much of John's before I had to put it away but what I saw of John's artwork was really nice too. Lots and lots of extra goddies - can't wait to read Space Beast.
Hopefully I'll get to start reading tonight - still got to pack everything away. And once I've read it and previewed it, should also be doing a podcast with Locusta towards the end of the month.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 20, 2015, 07:46:36 AMHopefully I'll get to start reading tonight - still got to pack everything away. And once I've read it and previewed it, should also be doing a podcast with Locusta towards the end of the month.
Nice, looking forward to all of that.
Quote from: SM on Jul 19, 2015, 10:22:56 PM
I know as much about the Blomkamp film as anyone else.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1028.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy347%2FTheEighthPassenger%2Fgoogle_translate_zpsnccpzqiq.jpg&hash=da33f11009a72d2f5c3da28b8385d22e79030afb)
Good to hear that SM! Guess you can't talk much about it?
Good luck with the production! :D
Certainly some wonderful artistry on display.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the actual US release date for this was? It kinda slipped out without me noticing.
Wait... phrasing.
Serious question though.
To see 120 hours of word reduced to 4 minutes is really fascinating. And to think that's per picture too.
It was sometime in June.
Still no word on a "regular" release, eh?
Last I was told there wouldn't be one.
No regular now? Sad panda...
"Supplied by Gearbox" must mean it's precisely the same model used in the 'Colonial Marines' game (potential errors and all). Wonder how many other assets that extends to.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 21, 2015, 07:48:51 AM
To see 120 hours of word reduced to 4 minutes is really fascinating. And to think that's per picture too.
Must have been a tricky job because in the film the interior is actually much larger than the exterior. The full size vehicle was based on an old British Airways passenger plane towing tractor but the interior was a completely separate set.
Indeed. I have to wonder what level of research goes into fixing issues like that. Obviously we saw no research taking place so in actuality it has to be more work than we see. I don't think John is on here - I'll see if I can get him across.
Lots of research. I won't say too much until John is on here - I've sent him an email - but I believe the Gearbox model was only used to spin around and choose the exterior view / perspective.
- Graham
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 21, 2015, 01:17:45 PMI'll see if I can get him across.
Would be great if you could, be nice to hear more from the guys behind this.
Wow! That video made me dizzy! Great artwork though!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 21, 2015, 10:14:24 AM
Last I was told there wouldn't be one.
Are you shitting me?
There are no current plans for a trade edition of the book.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jul 22, 2015, 09:01:17 AMAre you shitting me?
Like I said before, I get the impression this is simply a marketing ploy to shift more copies of the pricey version. They're probably desperate to offload as many of the Collectors' Editions as possible before announcing a cheaper version, because they likely won't sell any of the $300+ editions after that, so they're claiming it's the only version we're going to get.
Marketing ploy.....No. A desire by the artist to show the fans of the Alien series the effort that goes into a typical illustration such as this.....Yes. Pretty certain (99%) John made the video off his own back while making the art way before showing it to Insight, but sure he can elaborate once he's online. :)
He's not referring to the video, USG. He's referring to the comments about their being no standard edition of the book planned.
Quote from: USG Ishimura on Jul 22, 2015, 12:30:41 PMMarketing ploy.....No. A desire by the artist to show the fans of the Alien series the effort that goes into a typical illustration such as this.....Yes. Pretty certain (99%) John made the video off his own back while making the art way before showing it to Insight, but sure he can elaborate once he's online. :)
As Corporal correctly said, I was talking about the "no standard edition" plans, not the video! The video was awesome, and I'm hugely impressed by the work that went into just that one illustration :)
Haha! Okay, cool. Thanks for clearing that up. I know John saw it and was thinking the same as I! ;D
On both his artwork and mine, we really want to do what's right when it comes to showing accurately as best we can how it's depicted in the movie, and by doing that, do right for the fans of the movie. Basically I was working on the APC blueprint, at the same time he was working on his print for the book, and we both worked at the same time researching, looking at screen-grabs and behind the scenes pics helping each other. Lot of fun trying to figure it all out.
So you worked on the book too? What's your name?
If you don't mind me asking.
Graham J Langridge. I am known on a few other forums as 'Space Jockey'.
I did not work on the book directly. Just as a behind-the-scenes 'guide' helping on vehicle / ship accuracy. The APC artwork depicted here is entirely John's work. :)
You're the fellow behind the Nostromo blueprint in the Alien Vault book, yes?
Amazing work.
Quote from: USG Ishimura on Jul 22, 2015, 01:53:01 PM
Graham J Langridge. I am known on a few other forums as 'Space Jockey'.
I did not work on the book directly. Just as a behind-the-scenes 'guide' helping on vehicle / ship accuracy. The APC artwork depicted here is entirely John's work. :)
Did you make those blueprints that are going to come with HCG's Power Loader too?
Thanks for all the comments guys - it's a buzz to see all the discussion about the artwork.
This is rumour control, here are the facts: ;)
- The film and making-of photos I posted were all initiated by myself and the film in particular is something I've wanted to do for a long time. Insight were cool enough to help push it through as a Fox-approved film and even though it's being used to promote the Collector's edition of the book, the film exists because I wanted to show the creative process that goes into making a cutaway artwork and will be there online to enjoy long after the Collector's edition has been marketed & sold. It was simultaneously an opportunity to write instrumental music for film & showcase my band Last Picture Show.
- The model supplied by Gearbox was the same as used in Colonial Marines but I only used the outer shell ( which was thoroughly checked by myself and the Brain Trust & cross referenced with production photos for accuracy ). All of the interior was calculated by myself and Graham J. Langridge ( USG Ishimura on this forum) to whom I am heavily indebted for helping ensure everything was as seen in the film and in its right place. I also used some Gearbox models for the other artworks in the book such as for the Powerloader ( which did need fixing ).
- As Corporal Hicks rightly suspects, research time is very consuming - just over 100 hours were spent drawing, inking, colouring and then photoshopping. It's harder to quantify time spent researching the interior content - I allocated 20 hours to the time spent exchanging countless long emails with Graham and the rest of the Brain Trust. But I suspect this figure is actually quite conservative and was probably a load more.
- The Tardis like quality of the APC wasn't actually too much of a problem. The scale difference is slight enough to work around. The biggest problem I faced was where to put the engine as pretty much every bit of available interior space is taken up by the APC interior set we see in the film. It was Graham's idea to present the solution as in-wheel drive technology, aka the Transaxle.
Hope that helps :)
Sorry - didn't refresh the page to see the more recent comments from Graham who is being very modest about his invaluable help with this piece ( and also the Nostromo artwork which I produced with his and Derrin Procter's help ) . It was a really fun collaborative process to ensure everything was accurate. :)
John
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jul 22, 2015, 10:03:56 PM
You're the fellow behind the Nostromo blueprint in the Alien Vault book, yes?
Amazing work.
Hi Mr.Space Jockey;
Yes, that is correct and thank you. :)
Quote from: Quarax on Jul 23, 2015, 05:54:48 AM
Did you make those blueprints that are going to come with HCG's Power Loader too?
Hi Quarax,
Yes, that too is correct. I wasn't intending to draw up the Power Loader, but was asked to by HCG specifically for their model / statue.
When I completed the APC blueprint, HCG was made aware of it by a friend who then introduced them to me. A small version of the APC blueprint was included with their APC statue and that led onto the request for a Power Loader diagram.
Quote from: Johnny Paintbrushes on Jul 23, 2015, 09:00:59 AM
The Tardis like quality of the APC wasn't actually too much of a problem. The scale difference is slight enough to work around. The biggest problem I faced was where to put the engine as pretty much every bit of available interior space is taken up by the APC interior set we see in the film. It was Graham's idea to present the solution as in-wheel drive technology, aka the Transaxle.
Yes, the whole engine and axle location thing is something that people have been wondering for a while. The inspiration for the in-wheel drive technology came from stumbling upon a website by Protean Electric, a UK fim that is developing / has developed an in-wheel electric drive system.
So I thought it was really interesting and an ideal solution for the APC especially with the large wheels it has. That left it needing a powersource, and inspiration from that came from reading an article on the Jaguar C-X75 and its micro gas turbine engine. Small enough to locate at the front passenger-side of the vehicle.
The axle component, rather than running it from the wheel into and through the APC, I chose to connect at the back of each wheel, then run it vertically toward the top of the hull where there would be another, smaller drive system acting as a 'pivot' allowing the wheels to turn independently. The way it connects at the back then vertically, I guess a similar thing to visualize it may be a front bicycle wheel (minus one of the two forks) or the Daihotai 'Jordan' Tractor, which seems to use a similar concept.
In addition what we came up with had to complement the Aliens Tech Manual and the information provided in that, because we're aware that it can be frustrating to see one book say one thing, another book say something else entirely, so we were mindful of that too.
Quote from: Johnny Paintbrushes on Jul 23, 2015, 09:00:59 AM
As Corporal Hicks rightly suspects, research time is very consuming - just over 100 hours were spent drawing, inking, colouring and then photoshopping. It's harder to quantify time spent researching the interior content - I allocated 20 hours to the time spent exchanging countless long emails with Graham and the rest of the Brain Trust. But I suspect this figure is actually quite conservative and was probably a load more.
That's right; the thing about these movies is that one is reliant on three sources, 1.) being able to get a hold of studio blueprints; 2.) Set photographs; and 3.) the movie itself.
With 1.) we had access thanks to the brain trust of an interior APC blueprint, the trouble was it was based on an early design of the APC which was nothing like the final set (the gunner seat for instance was at the back). So that left 2.) and 3.), both of which were a case of really analysing the movie and photos on bluray and dvd releases, plus any reference photos the brain trust we able to provide. By working on the blueprints simultaneously we we able to work on one area in different views and scales to ensure it all worked and matched what was seen on screen.
Great to hear from you guys about your work!
I am not lying when I say that it is seriously inspiring stuff.
Quote from: USG Ishimura on Jul 23, 2015, 12:19:27 PM
we had access thanks to the brain trust of an interior APC blueprint, the trouble was it was based on an early design of the APC which was nothing like the final set (the gunner seat for instance was at the back). So that left 2.) and 3.), both of which were a case of really analysing the movie and photos on bluray and dvd releases, plus any reference photos the brain trust we able to provide. By working on the blueprints simultaneously we we able to work on one area in different views and scales to ensure it all worked and matched what was seen on screen.
Sounds like fun, I know even in the film itself the APC (at least it's exterior) is not consistent with itself. There are numerous little differences between the full scale prop vehicle and the two scale miniatures used in the film.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jul 23, 2015, 08:19:32 PM
Sounds like fun, I know even in the film itself the APC (at least it's exterior) is not consistent with itself. There are numerous little differences between the full scale prop vehicle and the two scale miniatures used in the film.
That's right. The old Halcyon APC model for instance has some detailing that is consistent with the smaller APC models built for the movie; the HCG APC statue has detailing consistent with the full-size movie APC. Sometimes one can go crazy trying to get it 100% accurate, but in those instances, you just have to make a choice, draw the line on it doing the best you can and think to yourself that both are actually correct and in the movie, so all is hopefully good.
I think my sole contribution to the process was in regards to the storage of the sentry guns. I originally thought the crates that fell on Gorman were the sentry guns, before quickly realising they weren't. Which was absolutely pivotal to the entire project... ;D
From memory it was Graham's idea to store them behind Burke and Ripley's seats.
The cam images on the MTOB screens were a brilliant touch.
Ok, I have to ask...
I never got my hands on anything like the colonial marines technical manual, and I never noticed any inconsistencies in the APC during the movie; can someone post a pic of the two different models? I'm curious about the differences now...
The differences really aren't all that great and the smaller fiming miniature certainly did it's job. I'll need to look at the movie again, but some examples of scenes to look at for the miniature are when Ripley barrels through the Atmosphere Processor with the APC to rescue the marines; also when they leave the Atmosphere Processor and drive through the exterior door, and then across the LV426 landscape blowing the transaxel in the process.
The areas to look at on the APC I think off the top of my head are the area above the rear wheel arches (full size APC has a dented 'canister', filming model has something that looks like a wrench in it's place). Also the full-size APC has a curved cowling over the top-mounted searchlight / camera, I think the cowling is missing on the smaller miniature but would need to rewatch the movie and refresh my memory to check.
Quote from: SM on Jul 23, 2015, 10:12:00 PM
I think my sole contribution to the process was in regards to the storage of the sentry guns. I originally thought the crates that fell on Gorman were the sentry guns, before quickly realising they weren't. Which was absolutely pivotal to the entire project... ;D
From memory it was Graham's idea to store them behind Burke and Ripley's seats.
The cam images on the MTOB screens were a brilliant touch.
Actually you bringing that up was really helpful because after that we looked at the sentry gun cases more closely and realised just how frigging big those things are! Especially afer looking at the scene where Vasquez and Hudson bring the cases into Operations, and there are four of them, and John and I were thing 'where the heck do we put them!?' We were trying to figure out the size and what exactly these cases looked like, and one member of the braintrust had a photo of one plus they can actually be seen right at the beginning of the AVP (2010) videogame in the hanger where the player starts.
Finding a spot for them was more tricky. The only area where it seemed to work and for them to not be in the way was behind the seats Ripley and Burke sit during the drop. But to be sure I looked at the scene where Hudson is giving his speech during the drop, looking at the camera angles and comparing how elements within the APC are located compared to other elements, and at the same time cross-referencing that with a section through the APC I had drawn to line things up. I also looked at the behind the scenes clip of Simon Atherton when he's talking about the weaponry because you can see part of the APC set in the backgound. However, here the seats seemed further back and more flush with the door meaning there was no room for the guns, plus them being pushed further back in this particular clip didn't mesh with the camera angles scene in the movie. In the end I went with what made sense with what I saw on watching the movie by bringing the seats forward to match, and then there was enough room for the Sentry Gun cases.
It's kind of what it's like sometimes, at first it doesn't work, but you work on another area and by solving that it then opens the door to a solution to the problem you originally had.
Thanks for the detailed reply! When I rewatch aliens again, I'll be paying more attention to that! :-)
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 24, 2015, 07:45:33 PM
Thanks for the detailed reply! When I rewatch aliens again, I'll be paying more attention to that! :-)
You're welcome :)
I love the '1 G0T P1NK 8C1D B00TS 0N' reference under your avatar by the way, it's been many years since I played that Alien Trilogy game and I remember punching in that cheat code many times!
Quote from: USG Ishimura on Jul 24, 2015, 08:20:26 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Jul 24, 2015, 07:45:33 PM
Thanks for the detailed reply! When I rewatch aliens again, I'll be paying more attention to that! :-)
You're welcome :)
I love the '1 G0T P1NK 8C1D B00TS 0N' reference under your avatar by the way, it's been many years since I played that Alien Trilogy game and I remember punching in that cheat code many times!
Haha I know right?!
Some of my fondest memories of the alien franchise involve me huddled up 2 feet from a 10" boxy TV playing this game! I was still pretty young but already an obsessed alien fan since my parents made the mistake of letting me watch aliens when I was only about 6 years old! One day, my older brother came home with a PS1 and 3 games; one of those games was alien trilogy which he specifically picked up for me. I had no idea the game even existed until he popped it in and I saw the opening cinematic and title screen! Big surprise for me! :-). I believe that was about the same time I first heard the space jockeys referred to as "engineers" too, which is part of how/why I chose my user name (not prometheus! Lol). He surprised me with "alien 3" for the Super Nintendo in the same way. :-)
I was a teenager and I really wanted a playstation and I really wanted a copy of Alient Trilogy; trouble was my folks wouldn't let me have either for some reason, so I saved up my money on the quiet, then while they were at work cycled the few miles to the electrical store to get both then cycled back with them tucked under my arm. I played it in secret for a few months, then made up some story about being able to buy them cheap off a friend. I got rumbled because my mum got a letter from the electrical store a year later wanting to know if I wanted to extent my warranty on my playstation. Ah happy days.... ;D I was pretty determined!
I think I was about 12 years old when alien trilogy came out, but my brother is 7 years older than me... The benefits of an older brother! Lol.
I actually had a similar story for my first eminem CD though; my older brother moved out by then. :-(
PS. I still play alien trilogy from time to time! It's still a very atmospheric game! Alien isolation has it beat, but I find more enjoyment/terror in alien trilogy than I do in colonial marines! lol
Quote from: USG Ishimura on Jul 24, 2015, 09:14:44 PM
I was a teenager and I really wanted a playstation and I really wanted a copy of Alient Trilogy; trouble was my folks wouldn't let me have either for some reason, so I saved up my money on the quiet, then while they were at work cycled the few miles to the electrical store to get both then cycled back with them tucked under my arm. I played it in secret for a few months, then made up some story about being able to buy them cheap off a friend. I got rumbled because my mum got a letter from the electrical store a year later wanting to know if I wanted to extent my warranty on my playstation. Ah happy days.... ;D I was pretty determined!
Lol, I helped my brother pull a similar scam regarding an Xbox 360, only problem was my brother was lazy and sloppy and it took WAY less than a year for our parents to discover the truth.
Quote from: predxeno on Jul 25, 2015, 12:25:10 AM
Quote from: USG Ishimura on Jul 24, 2015, 09:14:44 PM
I was a teenager and I really wanted a playstation and I really wanted a copy of Alient Trilogy; trouble was my folks wouldn't let me have either for some reason, so I saved up my money on the quiet, then while they were at work cycled the few miles to the electrical store to get both then cycled back with them tucked under my arm. I played it in secret for a few months, then made up some story about being able to buy them cheap off a friend. I got rumbled because my mum got a letter from the electrical store a year later wanting to know if I wanted to extent my warranty on my playstation. Ah happy days.... ;D I was pretty determined!
Lol, I helped my brother pull a similar scam regarding an Xbox 360, only problem was my brother was lazy and sloppy and it took WAY less than a year for our parents to discover the truth.
Hell, if I was a parent, I wouldn't even be mad. If my kid saved up for a game system, that would at least show that he knew how to save money toward a distant goal.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/articles/alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-preview/
Just uploaded my preview.
Is the second to last picture by Locusta too?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/alien-weyland-yutani-report-preview-26.jpg)
This one? I believe so.
Looks fantastic. Although, some of the theoretical stuff is a bit baffling... Why not just take the acid and put it in a conventional weapon, instead of mucking about with trying to fuse together dead Alien body parts?
But artistically, it's magnificent.
EDIT: Some slight concerns about that scan. Doesn't feel right to have an official report describing the Sulaco team as "badasses". I also seem to remember the Auriga guns were conventional, weren't they? Only the one used very early on was of a stunning configuration (and I'd imagine ranged electro-charge weaponry would have advanced substantially by that time).
Awesome preview! Looking at the timeline, I'm glad to see Fire and Stone included, as well as the references to synthetics getting civil rights, as mentioned in Sea of Sorrows. It's cool to get a coherent canon.
Civil rights? That doesn't... Make much sense.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Aug 08, 2015, 10:01:37 PM
Civil rights? That doesn't... Make much sense.
I guess the "new asshole models" are considered alive! Lol
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Aug 08, 2015, 10:01:37 PM
Civil rights? That doesn't... Make much sense.
Why not?
Also I'm seriously bummed about no mass market edition on the horizon, that's an amazingly boneheaded move if they're seriously going to stick to it. If they think fans are going to just bite the bullet and pay $300 for the crazy edition, I think they're in for a rude awakening. It'd be way, way more profitable to sell a mass market edition for a reasonable price (source: the sum total history of publishing and marketing).
I'd dish out the dough for this! I really REALLY want to too! Especially after reading AvPG's review and finding out there's an insert of Mores' book! I've always wanted to see more from him, considering he was the only real survivor in the original trilogy! Unfortunately though, I'll never be able to convince my wife to let me buy it for this price... :-(. For that reason, I definitely hope a more affordable version will eventually come out...
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Aug 08, 2015, 10:01:37 PM
Civil rights? That doesn't... Make much sense.
Funny you should say that, because the main character of the novel "Sea of Sorrows", Alan Decker, feels exactly the same! ;D
He says how if you give Synthetics civil rights, you might as well give civil rights to a starship. Apparently, when Weyland-Yutani rose back to power, they "fixed" this little issue.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 08, 2015, 07:06:22 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/alien-weyland-yutani-report-preview-26.jpg)
This one? I believe so.
I like the images. The text is crap. Eh.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Aug 08, 2015, 08:03:55 PM
Awesome preview! Looking at the timeline, I'm glad to see Fire and Stone included, as well as the references to synthetics getting civil rights, as mentioned in Sea of Sorrows. It's cool to get a coherent canon.
Speaking of Fire and Stone, is there anything mentioned or hinted about the Predators?
I read Hicks' preview which was an interesting read, one part stood out, the bit that talks about the Engineers not being our creators but a "brother species", what could that mean? It reminded me of how some fans still hope there is a legitimate "Space Jockey" type creature and the Engineers were their creation.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Aug 08, 2015, 10:01:37 PM
Civil rights? That doesn't... Make much sense.
How can it not? They're essentially alive and will want the rights that everyone around them do.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 09, 2015, 03:33:10 PM
Speaking of Fire and Stone, is there anything mentioned or hinted about the Predators?
Nah. What you see in the timeline is it. It's mostly focused on the film.
QuoteI read Hicks' preview which was an interesting read, one part stood out, the bit that talks about the Engineers not being our creators but a "brother species", what could that mean? It reminded me of how some fans still hope there is a legitimate "Space Jockey" type creature and the Engineers were their creation.
I think that's what it's hinting out. But as I said, they didn't really go into much theorizing during the Prometheus section. I wonder if it's some sort of purposefully placed hint.
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 09, 2015, 02:43:21 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 08, 2015, 07:06:22 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/alien-weyland-yutani-report-preview-26.jpg)
This one? I believe so.
I like the images. The text is crap. Eh.
Anything in particular?
Great preview!
One question Hicks, does it theorize in the book why the alien in the Nostromo was different from the aliens on LV-426, is it age or casts probably? And in the new beginnings section, on the xeno armor page, there's a weird head piece on the xeno, can you elaborate on what is it and how it works, or just upload a picture of the page? ;D
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 09, 2015, 03:22:09 AM
Why not?
Because they're machines. :)
QuoteAlso I'm seriously bummed about no mass market edition on the horizon, that's an amazingly boneheaded move if they're seriously going to stick to it. If they think fans are going to just bite the bullet and pay $300 for the crazy edition, I think they're in for a rude awakening. It'd be way, way more profitable to sell a mass market edition for a reasonable price (source: the sum total history of publishing and marketing).
Same... Just for the cut-aways, alone, this is one of those rare examples of a book I'd genuinely love to own a copy of. There isn't any way to justify this price. They really are cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Aug 09, 2015, 12:10:02 PM
Funny you should say that, because the main character of the novel "Sea of Sorrows", Alan Decker, feels exactly the same! ;D
He says how if you give Synthetics civil rights, you might as well give civil rights to a starship. Apparently, when Weyland-Yutani rose back to power, they "fixed" this little issue.
I vaguely remember this... Can recall readily agreeing with that logic.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 09, 2015, 04:48:08 PM
How can it not? They're essentially alive and will want the rights that everyone around them do.
They'd only care about it if they're programmed to do so - and there's no reason for anyone to put in the immense time and effort necessary to do that. There'd be zero commercial incentive.
That's why I didn't understand a lot of the promotional materials surrounding David 8. It made a big deal about how the model was able to experience anger/sadness/whatever and all I could think of was why the hell you'd do that if you're creating it
specifically to undertake what would amount to slave labour.
Creating an
illusion of human behaviour (to help with crew cohesion) is a world apart from creating something which can literally experience it. The kind of things we've seen them being used for, they'd never need the capacity to experience actual emotions.
'
Terminator 2' had a great scene in this regard, where John Connor asked the Terminator if it cares about whether it completes its assigned objectives. In other words, whether it has any emotional
investment in the outcome. And it just says no... In the absence of contingencies, it would merely become obsolete for the rest of eternity.
That's
exactly how a machine would view itself. It wouldn't care or get sad or anything like that. All the stuff from David 8 about how he wanted his 'parents' dead, struck me as lazy writing for the sole purpose of trying to inject drama for drama's sake.
Even Bishop acts relatively emotionless, in regards to termination. He has a measure of self-preservation and comradeship, but tells Ripley to pull the plug because he'll never stand a chance of being top of the line, again.
Any chance the fancy pants edition will go down in price as time goes on? I know most sculpts from SideShow go up with time, but I doubt anybody wants a $325 book so the demand for it may not be as high.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 09, 2015, 04:48:08 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 09, 2015, 02:43:21 PM
I like the images. The text is crap. Eh.
Anything in particular?
The tone feels off, describing the Marines as badasses feels very Gearbox-y, saying the Aliens exhibited no tactics on LV-426 until the Queen told them to smarten up (essentially) ... eh, I'm very picky I guess. I don't like the writing style.
"fluff"?
QuoteOne question Hicks, does it theorize in the book why the alien in the Nostromo was different from the aliens on LV-426, is it age or casts probably?
A caste system is theorised, but not specifically relating to head shape. There are other theories about heads.
QuoteAnd in the new beginnings section, on the xeno armor page, there's a weird head piece on the xeno, can you elaborate on what is it and how it works, or just upload a picture of the page?
The Alien related armour exists pretty much to combat Aliens due to acid resistance.
QuoteThe tone feels off, describing the Marines as badasses feels very Gearbox-y, saying the Aliens exhibited no tactics on LV-426 until the Queen told them to smarten up (essentially) ... eh, I'm very picky I guess. I don't like the writing style.
It's a guy expressing an arguably overconfident - just like the second film - second hand opinion using language just like the second film.
Quote from: SM on Aug 09, 2015, 11:05:05 PM
It's a guy expressing an arguably overconfident - just like the second film - second hand opinion using language just like the second film.
I know, I think it's a hard tone to pull off without sounding dopey. I'm just a picky bastard.
If it's any consolation that tone is only one page.
Wow!
Ok, so I was curious about this thread, and went ALL the way back to the very beginning and read everything up to now! This thread should be kept permmenately! It has everything!
Emotional highs and lows
Canon debates
Speculations and theories
Insults
People getting banned
Celebrity appearances
Trips down memory lane (i.e., alien trilogy on ps1, hell yea! Good ol' days)
And a dash of real facts occasionally sprinkled in!
Oh the drama! It's all here! This made for a better story than AvP:R and A:CM, both! Lol
More seriously though, I have some catching up to do on the new canon. I have the Titan trilogy, and I'm really looking forward to diving into those, especially book 3. I haven't yet touched or obtained any parts of fire and stone, but I've been VERY intrigued by everything I've heard about it. I'm still working on beating isolation; it stressed me out so much that I haven't been able to get the nerve up to finish it! Haha.
I own most of the materials released between 1988 and 2010, and while some of the comics and novels were really good, I never felt like they were officially part of the series. They were all more of a 'what if' scenario to me. Don't get me wrong; some of the stories I really wanted to be part of the official canon, they just didn't quite fit for me. My favorite stories were probably genocide, rogue and I also really like music of the spears (it was odd, but a unique direction/angle that I appreciated). Most of the other EU stuff I felt was terrible, like original sin and DNA war. The avp stories I liked too (except the movies), but never really felt like they fit in either.
I like the fact that fox is trying harder to maintain a stronger continuity/consistency. And with fire and stone, being official, it still has ties to the predators which is interesting. In fact, it seems like a stronger tie now in my opinion. I'd be ok without predators being part of the alien series officially, but if they respect both series well enough in their own rights, I'm ok with them being tied together too.
I don't like the idea of alien 3 being retcon'd (alien 4 I don't care about so much) but I have a feeling that alien 5 won't be a retcon, at least not in the way we're all use to (time will tell though), And I'd like to hear more about what's in store for predator 4. Prometheus 2, I think has potential, especially if mr. Scott is moving away from "gods and dragons." But aside from the visuals, really the only thing about prometheus 1 I liked was that it trampled all over the avp movies! I got a lot of satisfaction out of that! Lol
With all that being said, I'm overall very happy to hear that the stories in the EU that I never felt like they fit in, aren't being squeezed in and explained with half assed rational. But they aren't being denounced either. That fact actually makes me want THIS book more! The extra content is a huge plus too; I really want to know more about those things too, like space beast for example!
The big icing on the cake for me would/will be if A:CM gets the same treatment! I've read here that isolation got mentioned in this book, which I was extremely happy to hear! Isolation deserves canon status! But A:CM not so much!
So my one big question, which I saw about a half dozen people ask but it never got answered, is: what's the status on A:CM? Did it get ignored or left out of this book??
Spoiler
There's no references to the events depicted in A:CM.
There's the odd reference to Isolation, Fire & Stone, Out Of The Shadows, and River of Pain, but none reveal any great detail.
QuoteBut they aren't being denounced either.
It wouldn't be possible in this kind of book to say "The Aliens never invaded Earth", but the events are just the films, plus the media mentioned above.
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 03:48:37 AM
Spoiler
There's no references to the events depicted in A:CM.
There's the odd reference to Isolation, Fire & Stone, Out Of The Shadows, and River of Pain, but none reveal any great detail.
QuoteBut they aren't being denounced either.
It wouldn't be possible in this kind of book to say "The Aliens never invaded Earth", but the events are just the films, plus the media mentioned above.
Spoiler
Thanks SM! Yea I knew addressing the EU wasn't really this books intention, but it wasn't necessary to mention the Titan trilogy, isolation or fire and stone but it did. Maybe it was just for promotional reasons, but nonetheless I'm still liking this direction from fox so far! Of course, that can all change for the worst! I'll be upset if alien 5 utilizes time travel for example, but I doubt that's what we're in for.
On another note, maybe this should be canon, because of the soundtrack! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBlYfTbA44 Lol, totally jk.
PS. SM, if it's not in violation of any NDAs, can you tell us what was your favorite part about this book? Whether you had a hand in it or not? Just curious...
Spoiler
I think they'd like to tie in as much of their Alien IP into the films as possible, but at the same time appreciate it just isn't possible after 25 years of different media, creators and licensees. It seems like it was simpler to just draw a line under everything and start with Out Of The Shadows and go from there. They'd already decided on the scope of what it would cover long before I ever got involved. It was interesting seeing references to things that weren't going to be released for another 12 months.
My favourite part is probably the Prometheus and Resurrection stuff - the stuff about Alien and Aliens was always going to be the gold quality stuff, but some of the 'lesser' films had some really good content. I don't think I'm speaking out of school if I say that neither Prometheus nor Resurrection is among Danelle's favourites and it comes out in the writing - and this is for the better. It allows the author to be critical of the film while being the 'Company voice' that can be critical of the characters actions. There's two stand out pieces, one from Vickers perspective and another from Gedimans that are brilliant. The stuff relating to Aliens (the film) takes up a fair old chunk of the book (due to 7 of the 10 illustrations being from that film), but I was happy to see the 'not as popular' flicks not get shafted.
My 'hand' was fact checking and proof reading. I contributed a couple of captions here and there John's EEV and Betty illustrations.
And I got a character named after me. Which was nice.
Quote from: janenad on Aug 09, 2015, 07:22:41 PM
One question Hicks, does it theorize in the book why the alien in the Nostromo was different from the aliens on LV-426, is it age or casts probably?
I don't recall them talking about specific appearances. They do theorize over behavioural differences though. How they act without a Queen, etc. They also talk about a possible cast system. .
QuoteAnd in the new beginnings section, on the xeno armor page, there's a weird head piece on the xeno, can you elaborate on what is it and how it works, or just upload a picture of the page? ;D
It's something to control the Alien. A shock harness of sorts if I remember rightly.
Quote from: SM on Aug 09, 2015, 11:05:05 PM
"fluff"?
Sorry it's something I've picked up quite recently from the gaming groups. It essentially means in-universe reasons. Not as widespread as I thought?
QuoteIt's a guy expressing an arguably overconfident - just like the second film - second hand opinion using language just like the second film
Definitely. It's just that section trying to be in character.
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 06:07:43 AM
Spoiler
I think they'd like to tie in as much of their Alien IP into the films as possible, but at the same time appreciate it just isn't possible after 25 years of different media, creators and licensees. It seems like it was simpler to just draw a line under everything and start with Out Of The Shadows and go from there. They'd already decided on the scope of what it would cover long before I ever got involved. It was interesting seeing references to things that weren't going to be released for another 12 months.
The references to the other media aren't particularly large though. It's more of a comment here, a comment there.
QuoteMy favourite part is probably the Prometheus and Resurrection stuff - the stuff about Alien and Aliens was always going to be the gold quality stuff, but some of the 'lesser' films had some really good content. I don't think I'm speaking out of school if I say that neither Prometheus nor Resurrection is among Danelle's favourites and it comes out in the writing - and this is for the better. It allows the author to be critical of the film while being the 'Company voice' that can be critical of the characters actions. There's two stand out pieces, one from Vickers perspective and another from Gedimans that are brilliant. The stuff relating to Aliens (the film) takes up a fair old chunk of the book (due to 7 of the 10 illustrations being from that film), but I was happy to see the 'not as popular' flicks not get shafted.
I thought the Resurrection section was quite short actually and it was a real shame the Prometheus section wasn't allowed to theorize a bit more. I really liked it when they made some small comments about the Engineers. That Gediman thing took me quite by surprise. I wasn't expecting to see something trying to develop his character.
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 06:07:43 AMMy favourite part is probably the Prometheus and Resurrection stuff - the stuff about Alien and Aliens was always going to be the gold quality stuff, but some of the 'lesser' films had some really good content.
Totally agree.
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 06:07:43 AMI don't think I'm speaking out of school if I say that neither Prometheus nor Resurrection is among Danelle's favourites and it comes out in the writing - and this is for the better. It allows the author to be critical of the film while being the 'Company voice' that can be critical of the characters actions.
I did get a good giggle out of how the book keeps referring to the USM and their project on the Auriga in such derogatory terms.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 10, 2015, 07:33:27 AMDefinitely. It's just that section trying to be in character.
More than that, it's supposed to be an interview excerpt.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 10, 2015, 07:33:27 AMI thought the Resurrection section was quite short actually and it was a real shame the Prometheus section wasn't allowed to theorize a bit more.
Yeah, it felt disappointingly hampered, obviously by the fact they can't mess with the second movie. Understandable, but a shame.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 10, 2015, 07:33:27 AMThat Gediman thing took me quite by surprise. I wasn't expecting to see something trying to develop his character.
Yeah, that was great :)
QuoteSorry it's something I've picked up quite recently from the gaming groups. It essentially means in-universe reasons. Not as widespread as I thought?
"fluff" sounds inconsequential and dismissive.
QuoteThe references to the other media aren't particularly large though. It's more of a comment here, a comment there.
From memory, beyond the timeline the most prominent is a reference to Brackett. Odd mention of the Marion or Amanda, and not much more than a sentence when they do pop up.
QuoteI thought the Resurrection section was quite short actually and it was a real shame the Prometheus section wasn't allowed to theorize a bit more.
I think in terms of page count it's about the same as Alien, oddly enough. A lot of info from Alien is in the section about the creature though.
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 08:13:02 AM
QuoteSorry it's something I've picked up quite recently from the gaming groups. It essentially means in-universe reasons. Not as widespread as I thought?
"fluff" sounds inconsequential and dismissive.
Well it's certainly not intended as such. As I said, it means in-universe reasons. I'll reword it.
QuoteFrom memory, beyond the timeline the most prominent is a reference to Brackett. Odd mention of the Marion or Amanda, and not much more than a sentence when they do pop up.
Yeah, that's exactly it. Enough to be in there and easily recognized.
Quote
I think in terms of page count it's about the same as Alien, oddly enough. A lot of info from Alien is in the section about the creature though.
Seemed much shorter when reading it. Granted I didn't count the pages at that point.
*Fixed.
I've been looking everywhere for this book. How is it? Is the content official?
Nice preview but you forgot the key question, is it honestly worth the money?
Quote from: System Apollo on Aug 10, 2015, 08:42:21 AM
I've been looking everywhere for this book. How is it? Is the content official?
It's certainly official.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Aug 10, 2015, 09:12:02 AM
Nice preview but you forgot the key question, is it honestly worth the money?
That's for you to decide! I've shown you what's in it.
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 03:05:47 AM
If it's any consolation that tone is only one page.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, I only read that one extract so I won't judge the whole tome.
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 06:07:43 AM
And I got a character named after me. Which was nice.
Was it the Walmart company man?
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 10, 2015, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 03:05:47 AM
If it's any consolation that tone is only one page.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, I only read that one extract so I won't judge the whole tome.
The pictures in the gallery should be good enough quality for you to read some of the other sections.
I'm sorely tempted. But I know the moment I do they'll announce a massive price cut.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Aug 10, 2015, 04:28:40 PM
I'm sorely tempted. But I know the moment I do they'll announce a massive price cut.
This. 100%
It will be a version with a stylish dust jacket without the sculpted Alien slipcase. Who wants to place bets?
I mean I don't have objections to the marketing strategy as I am sure a lot of work went into this to finally make this book properly. As a fan I can understand that the creators need to make some good money here and they deserve it for putting out quality material. But come on. Who are we kidding here? There is no way this is not going to be released as a version that everyone can afford.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 10, 2015, 02:06:34 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 06:07:43 AM
And I got a character named after me. Which was nice.
Was it the Walmart company man?
Now I am definitely checking it out!
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 06:07:43 AM
Spoiler
I think they'd like to tie in as much of their Alien IP into the films as possible, but at the same time appreciate it just isn't possible after 25 years of different media, creators and licensees. It seems like it was simpler to just draw a line under everything and start with Out Of The Shadows and go from there. They'd already decided on the scope of what it would cover long before I ever got involved. It was interesting seeing references to things that weren't going to be released for another 12 months.
My favourite part is probably the Prometheus and Resurrection stuff - the stuff about Alien and Aliens was always going to be the gold quality stuff, but some of the 'lesser' films had some really good content. I don't think I'm speaking out of school if I say that neither Prometheus nor Resurrection is among Danelle's favourites and it comes out in the writing - and this is for the better. It allows the author to be critical of the film while being the 'Company voice' that can be critical of the characters actions. There's two stand out pieces, one from Vickers perspective and another from Gedimans that are brilliant. The stuff relating to Aliens (the film) takes up a fair old chunk of the book (due to 7 of the 10 illustrations being from that film), but I was happy to see the 'not as popular' flicks not get shafted.
My 'hand' was fact checking and proof reading. I contributed a couple of captions here and there John's EEV and Betty illustrations.
And I got a character named after me. Which was nice.
So is it fair to say that you have an improved appreciation for prometheus and resurrection now?
And seriously?!? Which character was named after you? That's freaking awesome!
And last big question:
Spoiler
You mentioned seeing references to stories that didn't come out for another 12 months. Is that just stuff like fire and stone, titan's trilogy and isolation? Or are there other things on the horizon that none of us know about yet mentioned in this book? I suspect all content explicitly referenced in this book has been announced and/or released by now, but I had to ask.
Thanks SM and Hicks for the replies! Can you, SM, elaborate on the theorizing about the different head shapes of the xenomorph that was presented in this book? :o
It seems a little odd that the Fire and Stone mission is mentioned on the timeline but the LV-178 missions are not.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Aug 10, 2015, 05:31:45 PM
It seems a little odd that the Fire and Stone mission is mentioned on the timeline but the LV-178 missions are not.
I think, in-universe, W-Y doesn't know about the 178 stuff at the point when the Report is written.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Aug 10, 2015, 05:33:16 PM
I think, in-universe, W-Y doesn't know about the 178 stuff at the point when the Report is written.
Out of the Shadows I can forgive, although there's nothing to say any of Ash's transmissions didn't get back to the company. But Sea of Sorrows should be referenced. It was a company mission after all.
I understand the reasoning if the book is meant to be about the pre-reformation WY, but for completionist sake I'd have preferred them to be in there.
Actually, Sea of Sorrows happens after the Report was written. I believe the W-Y Report is supposedly written around the time Resurrection happens, so about 100 years before Sea of Sorrows. The W-Y Report even figures into Sea of Sorrows, as I believe it's supposed to be the report Decker and the rest of the mercenaries are told to read.
I definitely got the impression that this report was written before Sea of Sorrows. And by all indications, W-Y didn't receive Ash's notes.
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 10, 2015, 04:55:14 PM
And seriously?!? Which character was named after you? That's freaking awesome!
I thought I saw your surname!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 10, 2015, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 10, 2015, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 03:05:47 AM
If it's any consolation that tone is only one page.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, I only read that one extract so I won't judge the whole tome.
The pictures in the gallery should be good enough quality for you to read some of the other sections.
I'll certainly check 'em out once I have the chance. I'm skiving from my dissertation by being here in the first place :laugh: Two weeks, two weeks...
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 10, 2015, 06:17:09 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 10, 2015, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 10, 2015, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 03:05:47 AM
If it's any consolation that tone is only one page.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, I only read that one extract so I won't judge the whole tome.
The pictures in the gallery should be good enough quality for you to read some of the other sections.
I'll certainly check 'em out once I have the chance. I'm skiving from my dissertation by being here in the first place :laugh: Two weeks, two weeks...
You and your education! :P Fair enough, Val. Completely understood.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 10, 2015, 06:18:02 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 10, 2015, 06:17:09 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 10, 2015, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 10, 2015, 11:36:12 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 03:05:47 AM
If it's any consolation that tone is only one page.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, I only read that one extract so I won't judge the whole tome.
The pictures in the gallery should be good enough quality for you to read some of the other sections.
I'll certainly check 'em out once I have the chance. I'm skiving from my dissertation by being here in the first place :laugh: Two weeks, two weeks...
You and your education! :P Fair enough, Val. Completely understood.
After the 28th August I'm all yours :laugh:
Quote
Well it's certainly not intended as such. As I said, it means in-universe reasons. I'll reword it.
Not heard it in that context before.
QuoteSo is it fair to say that you have an improved appreciation for prometheus and resurrection now?
No, I already held both in fairly high regard. I expected Prometheus to be fairly prominent, but not Resurrection and was happy to see it wasn't given second rate treatment.
QuoteAnd seriously?!? Which character was named after you? That's freaking awesome!
Spoiler
Now that'd be telling. ;) All I'll say is it's an existing character who didn't have a canonical first name.
Spoiler
QuoteYou mentioned seeing references to stories that didn't come out for another 12 months. Is that just stuff like fire and stone, titan's trilogy and isolation? Or are there other things on the horizon that none of us know about yet mentioned in this book? I suspect all content explicitly referenced in this book has been announced and/or released by now, but I had to ask.
Just the comics, books and Isolation - at that point. It is however Aliens 30th next year, so watch this space.
QuoteThanks SM and Hicks for the replies! Can you, SM, elaborate on the theorizing about the different head shapes of the xenomorph that was presented in this book?
Not to give too much away but
Spoiler
it relates to the presence of a Queen, or not.
QuoteI thought I saw your surname!
That's on the back page.
And there's no mention of Sea of Sorrows because, as others have said, it hasn't happened yet in the timeframe of the book. The book is set shortly after Resurrection.
SM,
Spoiler
Come on! You can't say which character?! Can you at least specify the movie the character appears in? Lol I suspect Alien 3...
And on another note, I previously had a small discussion with you here and on the Alien: Isolation forums (I went by the username Al Bangya over there, in case you didn't put 2 and 2 together) regarding the moon LV-426 and some of its physical/environmental properties and how it might have changed post terraforming. I also had an idea regarding why LV-426 might have been selected for terraforming in the first place. I recently re-posted my thoughts on this here hoping to spark a larger discussion, but that didn't happen. Not as many science junkies here as I thought I guess. Lol. Anyway, is there any new information about LV-426 presented in this book? Or how about the atmospheric processors and how they work? I'm curious if I should massively overhaul my ideas regarding all that in light of new information available! :-)
Ok, this book really sounds awesome! The more I hear the better it gets. My wallet is getting seriously itchy...
QuoteCome on! You can't say which character?! Can you at least specify the movie the character appears in? Lol I suspect Alien 3...
It's not an odd numbered film... ;)
There's a tiny bit about terraforming but essentially the stuff about LV-426 is taken from the films.
Quote from: SM on Aug 11, 2015, 01:45:14 AM
QuoteCome on! You can't say which character?! Can you at least specify the movie the character appears in? Lol I suspect Alien 3...
It's not an odd numbered film... ;)
There's a tiny bit about terraforming but essentially the stuff about LV-426 is taken from the films.
Ok so that leaves us with alien 4??? Prometheus would be odd numbered because it's the first in its own series? Or is that considered unnumbered which means it's not exactly odd numbered either? I think it's from alien 4!!!
PS. If I ask what's added about terraforming, you're going to give another cryptic answer, right? Lol. :-)
PPS. Come to think about it... Technically resurrection doesn't have "4" in the title! None of them do, except alien 3! So if "not odd numbered" is referring to the title rather than it's chronological release, you've really only ruled out 1 movie!
I know there were canonical first names for everyone in alien, and aliens... And I now know it's not anyone in alien 3 for sure... I suppose I should look up whether there's anyone in alien resurrection who lacks an official first name or not... Damn it! You're going to make me do work for this!! Lol
QuotePS. If I ask what's added about terraforming, you're going to give another cryptic answer, right? Lol. :-)
Can't give everything away, dude! ;D
QuoteI know there were canonical first names for everyone in alien, and aliens...
Were there?
Quote from: SM on Aug 11, 2015, 02:22:22 AM
QuotePS. If I ask what's added about terraforming, you're going to give another cryptic answer, right? Lol. :-)
Can't give everything away, dude! ;D
QuoteI know there were canonical first names for everyone in alien, and aliens...
Were there?
Ok, yea. Just looked around and nope! I guess there wasn't. I didn't see one for Ash (but I have a good feeling it ain't him), and a couple of characters with small roles in aliens. But I'm still assuming it isn't aliens because I'd image the first names for any of those characters would be shared with the actor/actress who portrayed them (like with most of the marines). I'm still thinking it's someone in alien 4 or prometheus...
How about this... How much screen time did the character have?
Approximately 62 minutes and 33 seconds.
Give or take.
Quote from: SM on Aug 10, 2015, 08:13:02 AM
QuoteSorry it's something I've picked up quite recently from the gaming groups. It essentially means in-universe reasons. Not as widespread as I thought?
"fluff" sounds inconsequential and dismissive.
"Fluff" is more of a tabletop gaming term, it refers to backstory fiction that has no bearing on gameplay. From a gameplay perspective, it largely is inconsequential and dismissive, but game developers/writers put it in as a way to give "flavor" or "personality" to characters/armies/whatever.
Basically anything that's not strictly hard-line stats-and-numbers used in actual gameplay is "fluff".
I think fluff is super-cool. I've bought several RPG/tabletop wargame sourcebooks and whatnot strictly for the fluff, with absolutely no intention of ever playing their associated games.
Quote from: SM on Aug 11, 2015, 03:28:36 AM
Approximately 62 minutes and 33 seconds.
Give or take.
Oh geez! That's hardley a small role! Lol
Is that all actual time onscreen? Or the runtime from beginning up until the characters demise?
I'm gonna have to crack out the book later and have a look for you.
Pretty sure I might know who SM is talking about, but I won't say. All I'll say is... the character did sort of have a first name before, but never one that was officially confirmed, just inferred, and this book now changes that for a new one.
One goof I have noticed in this book - Vriess' character bio on the Betty crew page says he died on the USM Auriga, when he clearly didn't. It's not even a case of in-universe mixed-up or incomplete info on the part of the report writer, because a little later it mentions that he survived the incident! Whoops :) In fact, the book also gives Vriess' first name as Dom, when the novelization of the film calls him John. It's a bit strange as the other Resurrection first names in the report tie up with those that were given in the novel, and a bunch of other book-only stuff is mentioned (like Kawlang).
Vriess 'death' - and a few other things - should be corrected if there's any future printings.
I deliberately didn't correct his first name. Between Jonathan Clemens, Jonathan Gediman, Johner - too many 'Johns'. And as Danelle was using an established precedent for naming (used on some prisoners and the Prometheus crew as well) I thought Dom suited him better anyway.
The subject of names came up with Kane and the other Nostromo crew too. They're all like 'Arthur Dallas', 'Ellen Ripley', but Kane was Gilbert Ward 'Thomas' Kane. I pointed it out, but they liked the full name for Kane, so it stayed.
Quote from: SM on Aug 11, 2015, 08:09:49 AMI deliberately didn't correct his first name. Between Jonathan Clemens, Jonathan Gediman, Johner - too many 'Johns'. And as Danelle was using an established precedent for naming (used on some prisoners and the Prometheus crew as well) I thought Dom suited him better anyway.
That's fair enough, was just something I noticed.
Quote from: SM on Aug 11, 2015, 08:09:49 AMThe subject of names came up with Kane and the other Nostromo crew too. They're all like 'Arthur Dallas', 'Ellen Ripley', but Kane was Gilbert Ward 'Thomas' Kane. I pointed it out, but they liked the full name for Kane, so it stayed.
The first name Thomas is given in a few places, like the novel for one. I got a chuckle out of the fact they included it as an alias.
The novel is the original (and only) source for Thomas to my knowledge. I don't think it was any script draft and ADF made it up. I always thought it was a nickname.
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 11, 2015, 02:03:29 AM
Come on! You can't say which character?! Can you at least specify the movie the character appears in?
It is:
Spoiler
Scott Milburn (with one "L") from Prometheus. Formerly Rafe Millburn, biologist. ;)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 11, 2015, 11:29:30 AMIt is:
Spoiler
Scott Milburn (with one "L") from Prometheus. Formerly Rafe Millburn, biologist. ;)
Spoiler
Well if I'd known SM's first name was Scott, that would've made working out who it is a lot easier!
So there are some rumours that since "Fire and Stone" is mentioned in the W-Y book, that Predators are also mentioned in the W-Y book. Is this true? Is there any mention of predators in the W-Y book? That would be pretty lame IMO.
If FAS is canonised, then everything within that series is, too. Nonsensical Elden stuff, included.
Of course, depending on what the new 'Alien' film does in regards to the previous two, this entire book might soon be rendered irreconcilable with new canon, regardless. :)
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 03:37:14 PMSo there are some rumours that since "Fire and Stone" is mentioned in the W-Y book, that Predators are also mentioned in the W-Y book. Is this true? Is there any mention of predators in the W-Y book? That would be pretty lame IMO.
As I just explained in the other thread, the report makes reference to the events of
Aliens: Fire and Stone, ergo
Predator: Fire and Stone must also have happened.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Aug 11, 2015, 03:54:01 PM
If FAS is canonised, then everything within that series is, too. Nonsensical Elden stuff, included.
Of course, depending on what the new 'Alien' film does in regards to the previous two, this entire book might soon be rendered irreconcilable with new canon, regardless. :)
This is exactly what I just pointed out in another thread. But it should be mentioned here.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 11, 2015, 04:00:22 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 03:37:14 PMSo there are some rumours that since "Fire and Stone" is mentioned in the W-Y book, that Predators are also mentioned in the W-Y book. Is this true? Is there any mention of predators in the W-Y book? That would be pretty lame IMO.
As I just explained in the other thread, the report makes reference to the events of Aliens: Fire and Stone, ergo Predator: Fire and Stone must also have happened.
Yes and its appropriate to bring the predator comment into this thread totally. I think basically this draft of the W-Y book is doomed. It will have to be retconned completely once Alien 5 comes out. I smell a real cluster-truck brewing. I honestly hope that in a future version of the book they include the Alien 5 and Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection films, but how could it then be presented as an "in-universe" documentary? If W-Y puts out a documentary about two separate timelines, that smells of time-travel which is not suitable for this franchise. Ergo, the whole book will need to be re-written. Only the pictures will be good.
The idea of Elden doesn't bother me as being potentially canon. But the execution would need to be totally different. Elden was actually pretty well done for a comic book but there is no way that would ever fly in film. Is Elden really canon? Seriously?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 11, 2015, 12:46:01 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 11, 2015, 11:29:30 AMIt is:
Spoiler
Scott Milburn (with one "L") from Prometheus. Formerly Rafe Millburn, biologist. ;)
Spoiler
Well if I'd known SM's first name was Scott, that would've made working out who it is a lot easier!
Spoiler
haha... I don't know for sure if that is the correct character, it's just an educated guess. Millburn is a good choice since his initials would be SM. ;)
Anyone know if they managed to fix Mil(l)burns last name? I know SM warned the editors about the typo but it might have been too late.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 04:09:58 PMErgo, the whole book will need to be re-written.
Lolwut?
No reason to screw with it for no reason. It's a beautiful book. Who cares if it doesn't fit in with the new film? It can still stand as a fine document of the old series.
It can totally stand alone as a document of the original series. But I think everyone here would love to see the art and contents of this book combined with Alien 5 and Prometheus 2. And that would require not just an addition to the book, but an actual rewrite and rethink. It won't be possible top resent 2 timelines from an in-universe perspective. Which is all just as well. I'll probably get the second version too...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 04:09:58 PM
I think basically this draft of the W-Y book is doomed. It will have to be retconned completely once Alien 5 comes out. I smell a real cluster-truck brewing. I honestly hope that in a future version of the book they include the Alien 5 and Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection films, but how could it then be presented as an "in-universe" documentary? If W-Y puts out a documentary about two separate timelines, that smells of time-travel which is not suitable for this franchise. Ergo, the whole book will need to be re-written. Only the pictures will be good.
And what if Alien 5 sucks balls? In such a case, why would you rewrite a perfectly good book just to accommodate a potentially crappy movie's canon?
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 11, 2015, 05:06:53 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 04:09:58 PM
I think basically this draft of the W-Y book is doomed. It will have to be retconned completely once Alien 5 comes out. I smell a real cluster-truck brewing. I honestly hope that in a future version of the book they include the Alien 5 and Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection films, but how could it then be presented as an "in-universe" documentary? If W-Y puts out a documentary about two separate timelines, that smells of time-travel which is not suitable for this franchise. Ergo, the whole book will need to be re-written. Only the pictures will be good.
And what if Alien 5 sucks balls? In such a case, why would you rewrite a perfectly good book just to accommodate a potentially crappy movie's canon?
Wish somebody asked that in 1992...
Thanks SM for the reply! ;D Though it is just theorizing, the theory would not really match with Alien Isolation where all the xenos are domed and a queen is supposedly present, plus they're older than the xenos in Aliens which just throws out the age theory.. :-\
I'd just like for a more concrete explanation for the difference, James Cameron in Aliens said it was age, A:CM and other sources said it was casts ( I like that idea the most), A:I just added more to the confusion not explaining anything even though I love the game.
Who knows, maybe it's the environment?
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 05:05:46 PMBut I think everyone here would love to see the art and contents of this book combined with Alien 5 and Prometheus 2.
Have you asked "everyone"?
I for one wouldn't want that at all.
Pretty sure everyone who worked so hard on the book would be pretty pissed off by the idea too.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 11, 2015, 05:22:28 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 05:05:46 PMBut I think everyone here would love to see the art and contents of this book combined with Alien 5 and Prometheus 2.
Have you asked "everyone"?
I for one wouldn't want that at all.
Pretty sure everyone who worked so hard on the book would be pretty pissed off by the idea too.
You're certainly welcome to not want a book which would feature a documentation of all the main Alien films. I mean that would only make sense. Who am I to judge?
Maybe you can refrain from talking on behalf of the creators and I'll change "everyone" to "most people". Ultimately a poll will solve the rhetorical question.
Why don't we ask the creators if they would ever want to change the book to accommodate Alien 5 and Prometheus 2? I'm not knocking the book. I think it is an outstanding achievement. I just think it's a fair question so that the hard work they put in does not get relegated to non-canon status.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 05:40:29 PMYou're certainly welcome to not want a book which would feature a documentation of all the main Alien films.
It does document all the main
Alien films.
Alien 5 isn't going to be out for years yet, so are you suggesting they delay the book until then? What would be the point in that?
Not at all. I'm suggesting that once the new films come out, it would be great to see this book get updated to reflect the complete Alien films. That does not negate the value of this book as it is, but it would necessitate a new format in the sense that it could no longer be in-universe if it covered multiple timelines.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 06:13:44 PMNot at all. I'm suggesting that once the new films come out, it would be great to see this book get updated to reflect the complete Alien films. That does not negate the value of this book as it is, but it would necessitate a new format in the sense that it could no longer be in-universe if it covered multiple timelines.
Or they could just leave it as it is and not worry about it.
Seriously, what would be the point? If we're redoing stuff to make it fit the new film, why not go back and redo all the old comics? All the novels? Everything? Because it would be an utterly pointless enterprise. The book serves its purpose as it is.
Or perhaps the new film will not be part of the old series. Just a standalone, what-if sequel to Aliens that has no bearing whatsoever on anything else. Minor details might be amended to official materials to introduce some new organisations and characters that are introduced in the movie but the actual core-story may be unofficial, it's just too early to tell. Blomkamp has already stated has he not that Alien 3 is not being retconned and that Weaver is not playing Ripley 8 so unless the characters are being de-aged for a pre-Alien 3 adventure I don't see how this can be canon.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 11, 2015, 07:33:05 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 06:13:44 PMNot at all. I'm suggesting that once the new films come out, it would be great to see this book get updated to reflect the complete Alien films. That does not negate the value of this book as it is, but it would necessitate a new format in the sense that it could no longer be in-universe if it covered multiple timelines.
Or they could just leave it as it is and not worry about it.
Seriously, what would be the point? If we're redoing stuff to make it fit the new film, why not go back and redo all the old comics? All the novels? Everything? Because it would be an utterly pointless enterprise. The book serves its purpose as it is.
OMG! Thank you Huda! finally. You admit that it makes no sense to go retconning all the old printed material. They should have never retconned the original Aliens series of comics for example. How would a retcon of this new book be any different than the retcon of the original comics? Both are in-universe volumes. Its not like either of them is an external commentary on the films. These are internal works.
Anyway, I think the book is perfect the way it is. When new films come out it would be great to see a new edition of the book, perhaps with a different premise that still references these great illustrations but also includes the new materials. Obviously it couldn't be an in-universe piece anymore so the text would have to change. That does not negate the value of this current W-Y book.
Predators don't rate a mention.
QuoteThanks SM for the reply! ;D Though it is just theorizing, the theory would not really match with Alien Isolation where all the xenos are domed and a queen is supposedly present, plus they're older than the xenos in Aliens which just throws out the age theory.. :-\
I'd just like for a more concrete explanation for the difference, James Cameron in Aliens said it was age, A:CM and other sources said it was casts ( I like that idea the most), A:I just added more to the confusion not explaining anything even though I love the game.
Who knows, maybe it's the environment?
Could all of the above or none. There's really no hard and fast definitions for this. During the process, I was discussing the perceived intelligence of the Queen and someone mentioned that fans are going to interpret and reinterpret what they see and read in terms of the Alien, and there was no desire to quash this. Presenting things in the forms of in-universe reports, sometimes second or third hand, written by people with their own opinions and biases avoids being definitive, and allows for growth in future projects.
QuoteI just think it's a fair question so that the hard work they put in does not get relegated to non-canon status.
It's much easier to think of canon as a fluid concept when it comes to Alien (as contradictory as that sounds). For example, the AvP films aren't referenced in the book, which would lead one to think - okay AvP and Alien aren't canonically linked. However, Fire and Stone - which includes Predator and AvP is referenced (if only very vaguely).
Prometheus 2 was taken into consideration while this was being written, but it was pretty much in the can before Blomkamp pitched Alien '5'. As we've recently seen, Prometheus 2 is shooting early next year. Despite rumours to the contrary I know nothing of the production of Alien 5, Jon Snaw. To my knowledge it's still a long way off.
Alien and Aliens obviously won't get 'relegated'. I'd be surprised if Alien3 and Resurrection didn't. Stuff has been 'relegated' since 1992, so no one should be really surprised if stuff in the future gets the same treatment. Even though Fox are making an effort to tie everything together, films are still at the top of the pile.
Oh, and it's not Millburn. ;D
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 09:03:37 PMOMG! Thank you Huda! finally. You admit that it makes no sense to go retconning all the old printed material.
When have I
ever claimed they should?
Here's a page by page preview of the Weyland-Yutani Report....
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 12, 2015, 07:32:37 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 11, 2015, 09:03:37 PMOMG! Thank you Huda! finally. You admit that it makes no sense to go retconning all the old printed material.
When have I ever claimed they should?
In our discussion on "Which EU Books Are Worth Reading?" Reply #55, you say "Correct. To ensure the story actually makes some sense in the context of the films, by making Ripley an android." This is in reference to the original material written by Mark Verheiden back around 1988. You treat the original Verheiden material very flippantly, which you're entitled to do of course. But why apply a logic which is aimed at trying to avoid a retcon of the W-Y book when you don't apply the same logic to the Verheiden series? Is one work somehow more deserving of a retcon than the other?
Have you had a chance to listen to Mark Verheiden in the recent podcast about the making of Alien 3? He's a very good sport about all of the changes that were made to his graphic novels, but you can tell that the man was wounded by what happened.
Thems the breaks if you're working with someone elses IP.
Remember all the unprecedented touting of A:CM as being canon? It doesn't rate the briefest mention in WYR, while stuff that wasn't touted as canon does.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 13, 2015, 02:53:42 AMIn our discussion on "Which EU Books Are Worth Reading?" Reply #55, you say "Correct. To ensure the story actually makes some sense in the context of the films, by making Ripley an android."
That's
why they did it. I never said I agreed it was a good idea to change stuff.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 13, 2015, 08:03:07 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 13, 2015, 02:53:42 AMIn our discussion on "Which EU Books Are Worth Reading?" Reply #55, you say "Correct. To ensure the story actually makes some sense in the context of the films, by making Ripley an android."
That's why they did it. I never said I agreed it was a good idea to change stuff.
No, but you have a generally dismissive approach to the original Mark Verheiden graphic novels, which from what I gather in our recent conversations, you still haven't read. But this is totally O.T., and well to each his own anyway.
Quote from: SM on Aug 13, 2015, 03:23:58 AM
Thems the breaks if you're working with someone elses IP.
Remember all the unprecedented touting of A:CM as being canon? It doesn't rate the briefest mention in WYR, while stuff that wasn't touted as canon does.
Yes this is true, and I think Verheiden understands things this way as well, but it would be great to see him writing something again in the Alien universe. I haven't seen anyone author capture the cynicism of the series as well as he did. O.T. I know.
The Alien canon seems to be very fluid indeed. From your experience in working on the W-Y book, do you have a sense that the creators would be interested in expanding the book in some way to take into account Prometheus 2 and Alien 5 once those movies come out? I for one, would love to see all of the new objects and themes from the upcoming films given the same treatment. While I do hope to pick up the current book at some point, that would not prevent me from picking up an expanded version eventually. Was there ever a discussion about an expansion to accommodate the upcoming films?
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 13, 2015, 04:19:23 PMNo, but you have a generally dismissive approach to the original Mark Verheiden graphic novels, which from what I gather in our recent conversations, you still haven't read.
Without wishing to totally derail this thread... I
have since read them, actaully. The original, unedited versions. I stand by all my comments in the novel reviews thread. They just aren't very good.
After seeing the book page by page, I have to say I am getting more and more impressed. This is exactly the sort of book I was hoping would be made someday. The hard work and care that was put in by the artists makes me hope that many copies will be sold at the limited edition price, but there is also a part of me which hopes to see the book released to the mass market.
I have a question. There have recently been some amazing blueprints put together of the Sulaco, the APC, and the Nostromo. The Nostromo blueprint was featured in the Alien Vault book. I guess I just figured that the APC and Sulaco would be included with the W-Y book for some reason. I'm guessing that is not the case?
If they are not included in the W-Y book then this becomes O.T., but does anyone know if they are to be published somewhere eventually?
QuoteThe Alien canon seems to be very fluid indeed. From your experience in working on the W-Y book, do you have a sense that the creators would be interested in expanding the book in some way to take into account Prometheus 2 and Alien 5 once those movies come out? I for one, would love to see all of the new objects and themes from the upcoming films given the same treatment. While I do hope to pick up the current book at some point, that would not prevent me from picking up an expanded version eventually. Was there ever a discussion about an expansion to accommodate the upcoming films?
No. Anything that might relate to the ultimate fates of Shaw or David is redacted, and the book was pretty much finished before there was any hint of Neil's movie.
Personally, I think any stuff relating to Prometheus 2 and Alien '5' would come in a completely new publication.
QuoteI have a question. There have recently been some amazing blueprints put together of the Sulaco, the APC, and the Nostromo. The Nostromo blueprint was featured in the Alien Vault book. I guess I just figured that the APC and Sulaco would be included with the W-Y book for some reason. I'm guessing that is not the case?
No blueprints. And to my knowledge no current plans to publish them. I'd be surprised if they didn't show up in some official capacity at some point, but Graham would know more than me on that sort of thing.
QuoteWithout wishing to totally derail this thread... I have since read them, actaully. The original, unedited versions. I stand by all my comments in the novel reviews thread. They just aren't very good.
Book 1 and 2 are both still among the best Aliens comics. Earth War takes a big nosedive in both writing and artwork.
Quote from: SM on Aug 13, 2015, 03:23:58 AM
Thems the breaks if you're working with someone elses IP.
Remember all the unprecedented touting of A:CM as being canon? It doesn't rate the briefest mention in WYR, while stuff that wasn't touted as canon does.
That's pretty hilarious.
I'm still really hoping a mass-market publication of this gets announced (preferably soon).
Quote from: SM on Aug 13, 2015, 10:20:05 PMBook 1 and 2 are both still among the best Aliens comics. Earth War takes a big nosedive in both writing and artwork.
Eh, I was far from thrilled, given how they're often built up by fans. Book Two looked gorgeous, sure, I'm certainly not knocking Beauvais' artwork, or Nelson's for that matter, but at the end of the day the point of a comic is to tell a story, and I thought the story in the first two was kinda lame. But I already went into my thoughts when I reviewed the novels.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 14, 2015, 04:03:07 AMI'm still really hoping a mass-market publication of this gets announced (preferably soon).
I stand by my opinion that one will come out eventually, and that the current denial is just a marketing ploy.
Just an FYI but we are going to be having a chat with Locusta this Sunday. The fellas over at Perfect Organism are also going to be having John on their show too.
I don't think it's just a marketing ploy, but it does feel a little arrogant. Perhaps justifiable arrogance, mind you... Have a feeling that the ultra-expensive busts and figures, which sell for hundreds at a time, probably had something to do with this. Fox undoubtedly regards this publication as a 'premium' product and that's why they're asking for a premium-rate price.
Whether or not that eventually translates into a desire for further sales, by lowering the price and removing the added extras, is anyone's guess. Didn't the 'Alien Vault' originally sell for a lot higher than it now does?
I do wonder just how much that special case contributed to the overall price. It's apparently heavy, but I'd guess it could have been 3D printed for a cheaper amount of money.
Lol, I just checked the Sideshow Collectibles page for this and found out that shipping and handling is $25 so that means the book will cost $350 total, but don't worry, if you sign up for the Sideshow newsletter, you get a $10 off coupon so in the end it's all worth it. :laugh:
QuoteI do wonder just how much that special case contributed to the overall price. It's apparently heavy, but I'd guess it could have been 3D printed for a cheaper amount of money.
A sculpted Alien bust that looks nice sat on your shelf too, is heavier and more expensive.
Exclusive extracts from prisoner Morse's tell-all novel, Space Beast
This is by far the most interesting part of this report, so awesome.
You should be able to read a page in one of my pictures. I think it was clear enough for you to get a feel of it:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/alien-weyland-yutani-report-preview-17.jpg)
Space Beast was a really good read, had my laughing quite a few times, just a shame it was so short yet meant to be the entire thing.
Yeah, that was pretty much my only complaint about it.
If it'd really just been an excerpt people would be complaining about 'Where's the rest of it?'
Quote from: SM on Aug 18, 2015, 09:17:25 AM
If it'd really just been an excerpt people would be complaining about 'Where's the rest of it?'
True enough. And we can explain it away by saying that Morse wasn't really one for writing a big book. Still a bit disappointing but it's just a minor annoyance. I felt it was very in-character and a fun read. I do wish a book would go back and use Morse post-Alien 3.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 18, 2015, 09:27:22 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 18, 2015, 09:17:25 AM
If it'd really just been an excerpt people would be complaining about 'Where's the rest of it?'
True enough. And we can explain it away by saying that Morse wasn't really one for writing a big book. Still a bit disappointing but it's just a minor annoyance. I felt it was very in-character and a fun read. I do wish a book would go back and use Morse post-Alien 3.
This. I think it would be great to see an expansion of Morse's history via a stand-alone Post-Alien 3 book. Despite wanting Alien 3 retconned, I still love the film on its own merits and the only way to move that story forward seems to me to be through Morse's perspective. So I really hope the powers that be give some consideration to expanding this into something bigger as a continuation from Alien 3.
Well thnx man, awesome read.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 18, 2015, 04:12:36 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 18, 2015, 09:27:22 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 18, 2015, 09:17:25 AM
If it'd really just been an excerpt people would be complaining about 'Where's the rest of it?'
True enough. And we can explain it away by saying that Morse wasn't really one for writing a big book. Still a bit disappointing but it's just a minor annoyance. I felt it was very in-character and a fun read. I do wish a book would go back and use Morse post-Alien 3.
This. I think it would be great to see an expansion of Morse's history via a stand-alone Post-Alien 3 book. Despite wanting Alien 3 retconned, I still love the film on its own merits and the only way to move that story forward seems to me to be through Morse's perspective. So I really hope the powers that be give some consideration to expanding this into something bigger as a continuation from Alien 3.
Shh! My fan sequel that continues the Alien series has Morse brought on the Patna to see the excavated, radioactive remains of the derelict and a handful of salvaged alien eggs. He's nearly executed, but instead shipped to another ass-end-of-space prison and sworn to secrecy under penalty of death until someone investigating Hadleys digs him up.
I'll make it one day, goddamnit, and you'll see lol.
Anyway this volume looks incredibly epic. I can't swing it right now, but it's up there with some dream collectables that are on a list. That time-lapse of the fellow doing the APC cutaway was absolutely breathtaking. Great work guys, I hope its a success.
QuoteThis. I think it would be great to see an expansion of Morse's history via a stand-alone Post-Alien 3 book. Despite wanting Alien 3 retconned, I still love the film on its own merits and the only way to move that story forward seems to me to be through Morse's perspective. So I really hope the powers that be give some consideration to expanding this into something bigger as a continuation from Alien 3.
With the generally positive reaction to a continuation to
Aliens - I wouldn't get your hopes up.
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 02:40:05 AM
QuoteThis. I think it would be great to see an expansion of Morse's history via a stand-alone Post-Alien 3 book. Despite wanting Alien 3 retconned, I still love the film on its own merits and the only way to move that story forward seems to me to be through Morse's perspective. So I really hope the powers that be give some consideration to expanding this into something bigger as a continuation from Alien 3.
With the generally positive reaction to a continuation to Aliens - I wouldn't get your hopes up.
I would never expect a movie continuing on with Morse, but a good novel sequel to alien 3 following Morse's character would be AWESOME! I've said it before too! I even said A:CM should have brought Morse back instead of Hicks because that would have made a helluva lot more sense! I'm hoping Titan will eventually release a Book featuring Morse as a 4th entry in their recent series of novels. (Fingers crossed).
PS. I'm still trying to figure out which character has been knighted with your name, SM... I had to take a temporary hiatus from it though; sometimes work requires me to focus my attention to other fields of research in my free time! Lol
That's no excuse!!
;D
Again, with Morse - Aliens is the popular one; not Alien3. Supposed fans of Alien3 often have trouble telling the characters apart. I don't believe there would be a large enough audience for a whole novel centred around Morse (hence the reason the three novels they did release were centred around the first two films).
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 02:40:05 AM
QuoteThis. I think it would be great to see an expansion of Morse's history via a stand-alone Post-Alien 3 book. Despite wanting Alien 3 retconned, I still love the film on its own merits and the only way to move that story forward seems to me to be through Morse's perspective. So I really hope the powers that be give some consideration to expanding this into something bigger as a continuation from Alien 3.
With the generally positive reaction to a continuation to Aliens - I wouldn't get your hopes up.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freplygif.net%2Fi%2F1096.gif&hash=cdc26d8fc56251601f50af0e5b9ae2a1cd0cc500)
Morse is the
perfect character to continue on in some covert/subterfuge corporate malfeasance shit Alien continuation plotline, and this is easily segwayed into via the investigation that would follow the LV-426 incident. Even if he was left alive and isolated in the middle of nowhere, Morse is the type to say "f**k your secrecy" and spill the beans to someone important, like a relative of one of the marines, a high-ranking officer of the USCM, or an ICC investigator.
It's like the f**king Alien series was born on obsessive attention to detail in a hyper-realistic, gritty sci-fi setting, then suddenly went full retard after Alien 3 happened. How in the living shit did no writer conceive or even attempt an idea like this?
The Morse continuation is such an obvious way to go that even I started to work on a script in the '90s that focused on Morse. But it's lost, somewhere in time. Like tears in the rain.
Quote from: SM on Aug 11, 2015, 01:45:14 AM
QuoteCome on! You can't say which character?! Can you at least specify the movie the character appears in? Lol I suspect Alien 3...
It's not an odd numbered film...
Scott Gorman?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 19, 2015, 06:31:06 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 11, 2015, 01:45:14 AM
QuoteCome on! You can't say which character?! Can you at least specify the movie the character appears in? Lol I suspect Alien 3...
It's not an odd numbered film...
Scott Gorman?
Could be. SM always were an asshole.
Spoiler
Nah man, I'm just kidding. SM is cool :laugh:
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 19, 2015, 06:31:06 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 11, 2015, 01:45:14 AM
QuoteCome on! You can't say which character?! Can you at least specify the movie the character appears in? Lol I suspect Alien 3...
It's not an odd numbered film...
Scott Gorman?
"Thanks for the coffee".
;D
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 10:05:10 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 19, 2015, 06:31:06 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 11, 2015, 01:45:14 AM
QuoteCome on! You can't say which character?! Can you at least specify the movie the character appears in? Lol I suspect Alien 3...
It's not an odd numbered film...
Scott Gorman?
"Thanks for the coffee".
;D
Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen. We found'im.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 20, 2015, 12:18:58 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 10:05:10 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 19, 2015, 06:31:06 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 11, 2015, 01:45:14 AM
QuoteCome on! You can't say which character?! Can you at least specify the movie the character appears in? Lol I suspect Alien 3...
It's not an odd numbered film...
Scott Gorman?
"Thanks for the coffee".
;D
Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen. We found'im.
Seriously?!? I could have sworn Gorman had a canonical first name! It wasn't "William" or "bill"??
Gorman's first name starts with an S. Only marine besides Hicks who doesn't share a first initial with the actor.
Wow. That's pretty cool! :-)
I thought so. :)
You should change your username to SG
Or perhaps: SG, the fan formerly known as SM
Lol, jk
;D
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 20, 2015, 02:53:34 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Aug 20, 2015, 12:18:58 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 10:05:10 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 19, 2015, 06:31:06 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 11, 2015, 01:45:14 AM
QuoteCome on! You can't say which character?! Can you at least specify the movie the character appears in? Lol I suspect Alien 3...
It's not an odd numbered film...
Scott Gorman?
"Thanks for the coffee".
;D
Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen. We found'im.
Seriously?!? I could have sworn Gorman had a canonical first name! It wasn't "William" or "bill"??
Hmmm, Gorman totally seems like a William. Bill, billy, or mac or buddy...
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 10:05:10 PM"Thanks for the coffee".
;D
So I was right :)
I've never actually noticed what initial he has on the manifest seen in
Aliens. I always assumed it was W. I'll try to remember to look next time I watch the film.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 20, 2015, 07:41:30 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 19, 2015, 10:05:10 PM"Thanks for the coffee".
;D
So I was right :)
I've never actually noticed what initial he has on the manifest seen in Aliens. I always assumed it was W. I'll try to remember to look next time I watch the film.
I think that was my mistake too. I assumed it was a W, or perhaps I saw the "s" first-initial and assumed there was already a name, not just a letter. I can't remember now... Lol
For what it's worth, I think ACM might have explicitly said his first name was William...
But regardless, that was always the first name I've known to be assigned to him because all the other Marines (except Hicks) similarly steal the actor's first name. I just assumed it had been changed for the book. It was only when SM mentioned having someone named after him that it clicked.
After that, I guessed it was either Gorman who was named for SM, or S. D. Perry was secretly a Thin Lizzy fan and it was a subtle nod to Scott Gorham :P
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 20, 2015, 02:39:33 PM
For what it's worth, I think ACM might have explicitly said his first name was William...
But regardless, that was always the first name I've known to be assigned to him because all the other Marines (except Hicks) similarly steal the actor's first name. I just assumed it had been changed for the book. It was only when SM mentioned having someone named after him that it clicked.
After that, I guessed it was either Gorman who was named for SM, or S. D. Perry was secretly a Thin Lizzy fan and it was a subtle nod to Scott Gorham :P
Did ACM say Gorman's name was William?!? Shite! That's probably where I got it from! Damn you ACM! Filling my head with false-canon! Lol :-)
Lol, out of curiosity did ACM provide any additions to the canon (besides its basic storyline) that is worth noting?
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 04:55:19 PM
Lol, out of curiosity did ACM provide any additions to the canon (besides its basic storyline) that is worth noting?
Not that I'm aware of... SG (see what I did there, lol) had confirmed earlier that this book makes no reference to ACM either.
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 04:55:19 PMLol, out of curiosity did ACM provide any additions to the canon (besides its basic storyline) that is worth noting?
Turk.
;D
Lmfao!
Well, you know, know that I'm thinking about it, I guess there is one thing that ACM might have contributed to the canon. Just before Bella dies, a WY scientist describes the alien's gestation like a cancer that attaches and feeds off of multiple internal organs or something to that effect... which is why it can't be surgically removed from the host without killing the host in the process...
But again, I don't think anything in ACM will be taken seriously by itself. Maybe if this concept gets introduced in alien 5 or something it would be taken more seriously...
It this book serves as the official canon bible then nothing from ACM matters.
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 20, 2015, 02:43:58 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 20, 2015, 02:39:33 PM
For what it's worth, I think ACM might have explicitly said his first name was William...
But regardless, that was always the first name I've known to be assigned to him because all the other Marines (except Hicks) similarly steal the actor's first name. I just assumed it had been changed for the book. It was only when SM mentioned having someone named after him that it clicked.
After that, I guessed it was either Gorman who was named for SM, or S. D. Perry was secretly a Thin Lizzy fan and it was a subtle nod to Scott Gorham :P
Did ACM say Gorman's name was William?!? Shite! That's probably where I got it from! Damn you ACM! Filling my head with false-canon! Lol :-)
Thou shall not worship false-canon, for it is the work of the Pitchfork.
And I seem to recall some conversation about Dino's bar and grill...
Quote from: SM on Aug 20, 2015, 09:55:47 PMAnd I seem to recall some conversation about Dino's bar and grill...
:)
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 04:55:19 PM
Lol, out of curiosity did ACM provide any additions to the canon (besides its basic storyline) that is worth noting?
It was the first official source to use the name "Calpamos" for the gas giant that LV-426 orbits. It was originally a fan term that was fabricated out of thin air on the Xenopedia wiki; ACM apparently saw it, assumed it was legit, used it, and in doing so, inadvertently made it canon. :P
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 21, 2015, 08:17:24 AMIt was originally a fan term that was fabricated out of thin air on the Xenopedia wiki; ACM apparently saw it, assumed it was legit, used it, and in doing so, inadvertently made it canon. :P
It's a shame they didn't see our page that pointed out Hicks was dead :P
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 21, 2015, 08:17:24 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Aug 20, 2015, 04:55:19 PM
Lol, out of curiosity did ACM provide any additions to the canon (besides its basic storyline) that is worth noting?
It was the first official source to use the name "Calpamos" for the gas giant that LV-426 orbits. It was originally a fan term that was fabricated out of thin air on the Xenopedia wiki; ACM apparently saw it, assumed it was legit, used it, and in doing so, inadvertently made it canon. :P
I've been wondering where the f**k that came from. Why Calpamos, HuDa?
I have no idea. I've only been working on the site for a couple of years, and when I joined it was literally full of unsourced b.s. (that name being just one of those things). I've done my best to tidy things up but there's still quite a lot that I just haven't had the time/knowledge to fix.
Hi guys - just to report on the excellent service I had from Sideshow Collectables - I ordered the book on a Saturday here in the UK and on the Thursday (5 days in Sunday) my package arrived - i certainly didn't expect it to arrive that quick -the packaging was first class with a box in a box in a box with polystyrene as well and that was before you got to the actual book packaging - I haven't had chance to read it yet but my first impressions are its very well done - i will put my thoughts on once I have time to digest it fully - Great work Guys
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 21, 2015, 09:30:17 AM
I have no idea. I've only been working on the site for a couple of years, and when I joined it was literally full of unsourced b.s. (that name being just one of those things). I've done my best to tidy things up but there's still quite a lot that I just haven't had the time/knowledge to fix.
I think it is a name from a Joseph Conrad story, but I'm happy to stand corrected. Perhaps someone more familiar with his books might be able to confirm?
Quote from: SM on Aug 20, 2015, 09:55:47 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 20, 2015, 02:43:58 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 20, 2015, 02:39:33 PM
For what it's worth, I think ACM might have explicitly said his first name was William...
But regardless, that was always the first name I've known to be assigned to him because all the other Marines (except Hicks) similarly steal the actor's first name. I just assumed it had been changed for the book. It was only when SM mentioned having someone named after him that it clicked.
After that, I guessed it was either Gorman who was named for SM, or S. D. Perry was secretly a Thin Lizzy fan and it was a subtle nod to Scott Gorham :P
Did ACM say Gorman's name was William?!? Shite! That's probably where I got it from! Damn you ACM! Filling my head with false-canon! Lol :-)
Thou shall not worship false-canon, for it is the work of the Pitchfork.
Lol. This made my day! :-)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 21, 2015, 09:30:17 AM
I have no idea. I've only been working on the site for a couple of years, and when I joined it was literally full of unsourced b.s. (that name being just one of those things). I've done my best to tidy things up but there's still quite a lot that I just haven't had the time/knowledge to fix.
What sort of stuff? Shoot me a PM or something, I might be able to help.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 21, 2015, 01:42:29 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 21, 2015, 09:30:17 AM
I have no idea. I've only been working on the site for a couple of years, and when I joined it was literally full of unsourced b.s. (that name being just one of those things). I've done my best to tidy things up but there's still quite a lot that I just haven't had the time/knowledge to fix.
I think it is a name from a Joseph Conrad story, but I'm happy to stand corrected. Perhaps someone more familiar with his books might be able to confirm?
As far as I can tell, it was made up wholesale by the internet. Googling "calpamos" brings up endless references to the Alien/AvP wikis, and googling "calpamos conrad" brings up nothing relevant.
But A:CM inadvertently canonized it (which I find pretty funny), and at the end of the day I'm okay with that.
I'm not gonna lie... The wiki site fooled me! I thought calpamos was legit. I figured it was referenced from the colonial marines technical manual or the movie novelizations or something else I haven't read yet... Lol.
I never caught that ACM references calpamos though! That's kind of funny.
But I have to admit, I actually really like the name, and I kind of hope it sticks!
Quote from: Deacs1973 on Aug 21, 2015, 11:57:52 AM
Hi guys - just to report on the excellent service I had from Sideshow Collectables - I ordered the book on a Saturday here in the UK and on the Thursday (5 days in Sunday) my package arrived - i certainly didn't expect it to arrive that quick -the packaging was first class with a box in a box in a box with polystyrene as well and that was before you got to the actual book packaging - I haven't had chance to read it yet but my first impressions are its very well done - i will put my thoughts on once I have time to digest it fully - Great work Guys
Thanks allot. Hope You enjoy it and please feel free to share Your thoughts here if You like. Cheers.
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 22, 2015, 04:50:39 AMBut I have to admit, I actually really like the name, and I kind of hope it sticks!
It apparently has, because
Fire and Stone used it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 22, 2015, 03:26:49 AMWhat sort of stuff? Shoot me a PM or something, I might be able to help.
Nothing in particular that immediately springs to mind, you're probably better off just browsing the site. The EU articles in particular are a mess, but I'm almost completely ignorant as far as that goes. But by all means chip in if you want, the help would be appreciated!
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 22, 2015, 03:26:49 AM
As far as I can tell, it was made up wholesale by the internet. Googling "calpamos" brings up endless references to the Alien/AvP wikis, and googling "calpamos conrad" brings up nothing relevant.
Yeah, looks like I was thinking of the word Galapagos not Calpamos. :-[
But the closest we have to an official name for the gas giant is
Epsilon from the Spaihts Engineers script. At least that is propably a little bit more canon than acm. :P
Is there something about eggmorphing in this book?
I hated how they ignored it in the new novel series until now.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 22, 2015, 12:41:19 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 22, 2015, 03:26:49 AM
As far as I can tell, it was made up wholesale by the internet. Googling "calpamos" brings up endless references to the Alien/AvP wikis, and googling "calpamos conrad" brings up nothing relevant.
Yeah, looks like I was thinking of the word Galapagos not Calpamos. :-[
But the closest we have to an official name for the gas giant is Epsilon from the Spaihts Engineers script. At least that is propably a little bit more canon than acm. :P
Are you sure "epsilon" was in reference to the planet? There's a star, or rather a number of stars, with epsilon in thier name. I'm wondering if they had a different star system in mind before settling on zeta II reticuli. I recall reading somewhere that zeta was used in alien because there was a little bit of a media frenzy around it after a woman claimed to be abducted by little green men who were from a planet in the zeta II reticuli system.
http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/the-truth-about-zeta-reticuli.html
There's a little bit about alien and Dan O'Bannon's script towards the bottom of this page. It's really hard to find a reputable source on this; most sites that spend any time talking about the media frenzy around the star system at this time, are all conspiracy theorists who claim to be "ufologists" :-o
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 22, 2015, 02:47:10 PM
Are you sure "epsilon" was in reference to the planet? There's a star, or rather a number of stars, with epsilon in thier name. I'm wondering if they had a different star system in mind before settling on zeta II reticuli.
A few quotes from Spaihts script.
QuoteINT. MAGELLAN - BRIDGE
Outside the vast Bridge window, the star Zeta2 Reticuli
burns, a cold beacon in the night.
QuoteA heads-up display appears, overlaid on the glass. The sun is
labeled ZETA2 RETICULI.
QuoteGot a hit! A moon. LV-426.
The display centers on Epsilon, a gas giant with many moons.
Data flickers around one of the larger moons: LV-426.
QuoteEXT. MAGELLAN (ZETA2 RETICULI SYSTEM)
The Magellan retracts its vast antennae and telescopes.
The engines fire: the ship rockets toward the gas giant
Epsilon and its mysterious moon.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 22, 2015, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 22, 2015, 02:47:10 PM
Are you sure "epsilon" was in reference to the planet? There's a star, or rather a number of stars, with epsilon in thier name. I'm wondering if they had a different star system in mind before settling on zeta II reticuli.
A few quotes from Spaihts script.
QuoteINT. MAGELLAN - BRIDGE
Outside the vast Bridge window, the star Zeta2 Reticuli
burns, a cold beacon in the night.
QuoteA heads-up display appears, overlaid on the glass. The sun is
labeled ZETA2 RETICULI.
QuoteGot a hit! A moon. LV-426.
The display centers on Epsilon, a gas giant with many moons.
Data flickers around one of the larger moons: LV-426.
QuoteEXT. MAGELLAN (ZETA2 RETICULI SYSTEM)
The Magellan retracts its vast antennae and telescopes.
The engines fire: the ship rockets toward the gas giant
Epsilon and its mysterious moon.
Interesting! Yep that makes it pretty clear! :-)
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 22, 2015, 04:50:39 AM
I'm not gonna lie... The wiki site fooled me! I thought calpamos was legit. I figured it was referenced from the colonial marines technical manual or the movie novelizations or something else I haven't read yet... Lol.
I never caught that ACM references calpamos though! That's kind of funny.
But I have to admit, I actually really like the name, and I kind of hope it sticks!
Yeah, the closest the USCM Tech Manual comes to giving the planet a name is "Zeta 2 Reticuli IV" (being the 4th planet orbiting Zeta 2 Reticuli).
Out of curiosity, does the W-Y Report use the Calpamos name?
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 22, 2015, 03:00:15 PM
Interesting! Yep that makes it pretty clear! :-)
Epsilon works because LV-426 was later renamed Archeron. Since Archeron is a Greek word it would make sense that it's parent body would also have a Greek name.
I cannot seem to trace the etymology of Calpamos. It sounds Greek but it could also just be a made-up word.
Is eggmorphing mentioned in the WY Report?
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 22, 2015, 04:37:52 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 22, 2015, 03:00:15 PM
Interesting! Yep that makes it pretty clear! :-)
Epsilon works because LV-426 was later renamed Archeron. Since Archeron is a Greek word it would make sense that it's parent body would also have a Greek name.
I cannot seem to trace the etymology of Calpamos. It sounds Greek but it could also just be a made-up word.
To me, I feel the opposite about it. Epsilon is Greek, yes, but it's actually a Greek letter which is more commonly the designation used for stars. For example, alpha centari, zeta reticuli, beta pictoris, epsilon eridani, etc... The planets, in our solar system anyway, are all named after Greek and roman gods. I don't know what or where calpamos came from either. I'm not even sure if it was a real word/name before it was given to the planet in alien, but it sounds more fitting for a planet name to me than epsilon does.
PS. I just found this and thought it was interesting. Archeron (Greek, we knew that) is "the river of pain or hades." I never new that, to be honest. Now, I appreciate the title of Titan's third book more! :-)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 22, 2015, 04:30:08 PMOut of curiosity, does the W-Y Report use the Calpamos name?
I honestly can't remember. But it's used in both
Fire and Stone and
River of Pain, so it's clearly been adopted.
Quote from: Doctor Ash on Aug 22, 2015, 04:40:04 PMIs eggmorphing mentioned in the WY Report?
I seem to remember and oblique reference to it but nothing obvious or detailed.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 23, 2015, 11:10:09 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 22, 2015, 04:30:08 PMOut of curiosity, does the W-Y Report use the Calpamos name?
I honestly can't remember. But it's used in both Fire and Stone and River of Pain, so it's clearly been adopted.
Quote from: Doctor Ash on Aug 22, 2015, 04:40:04 PMIs eggmorphing mentioned in the WY Report?
I seem to remember and oblique reference to it but nothing obvious or detailed.
Thank you!
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 22, 2015, 04:37:52 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 22, 2015, 03:00:15 PM
Interesting! Yep that makes it pretty clear! :-)
Epsilon works because LV-426 was later renamed Archeron. Since Archeron is a Greek word it would make sense that it's parent body would also have a Greek name.
I cannot seem to trace the etymology of Calpamos. It sounds Greek but it could also just be a made-up word.
*Acheron. See also "Ilium".
Calpamos is in the book.
Egg morphing is not.
Neither is it discounted.
Ilium as in the ilium range??
Ilium is another name for the city of Troy, so I'd imagine symbolically the ilium range is a reference to the walls encompassing the city of Troy, only in this case I'm assuming Hadley's hope is our version Troy. So in a sense, the aliens got in to the colony via thier own version of a Trojan horse... Chest burster(s).
I think you're reading too much into a throwaway Greek mythological reference.
Quote from: SM on Aug 23, 2015, 11:19:35 PM
I think you're reading too much into a throwaway Greek mythological reference.
Lol
Ok, so what's the significance of ilium? What I came up with before I knew was a stretch! Lol
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 23, 2015, 11:31:16 PMOk, so what's the significance of ilium? What I came up with before I knew was a stretch! Lol
Probably just went hand-in-hand nicely with Acheron (also Greek). Cameron was obviously on a Greek bender at the time.
Reckon. As it was, neither reference ended up on screen when the film was released.
I wonder why the authors and the artists behind the alien franchise never bothered to bring egg morphing inside the books and comics (with the exception of Alan Dean Foster and the mentioning of it in the background material of the AvP 2 DVD)
There are many fans who like it. Some even more than the Queen...
Probably because the masses are just more familiar with the Queen, and before the Director's Cut of Alien I'd wager most casual fans didn't even know about it.
What he said.
But they could bring it in, in addition to the queen. Wouldn't it have the chance to make the books and comics more successful, as many people would like to have it there?
Quote from: SM on Aug 24, 2015, 08:03:10 AM
Reckon. As it was, neither reference ended up on screen when the film was released.
Didn't ilium eventually get referenced verbally in the aliens directors cut? Lydecker to Simpson:
Quote
You remember you sent some wildcatters out to that plateau, out past the Ilium range, a couple days ago?
I think it would have to make sense to the story. Keep in mind, the Aliens currently have a reproductive cycle that more or less makes sense. If you throw eggmorphing into the mix, it will require a lot more elaboration as to why they can do that, possibly making that the theme of the film. Is it cool enough to make it the film's focus? I don't know.
As some people mentioned before, it could be used for the creation of a queen facehugger bearing egg instead of that uncreative hormone storm thing.
Quote from: Engineer on Aug 24, 2015, 02:29:14 PM
Quote from: SM on Aug 24, 2015, 08:03:10 AM
Reckon. As it was, neither reference ended up on screen when the film was released.
Didn't ilium eventually get referenced verbally in the aliens directors cut? Lydecker to Simpson:
It did, but the DC was only released six years later. As the new lieutenant mentioned, none of those Greco references were present in the original theatrical cut.
Fair enough. I still find it clever as hell that Titan's third book was named "river of pain" and Acheron translates to "river of pain or hades!" :-)
Not necessarily clever, just intentional. I'm sure they knew what they were doing there.
Quote from: Doctor Ash on Aug 24, 2015, 03:56:42 PM
As some people mentioned before, it could be used for the creation of a queen facehugger bearing egg instead of that uncreative hormone storm thing.
To be honest, I have nothing against the idea of eggmorphing creating a queen facehugger egg. But I also like the idea of a single drone morphing into a queen, both ideas are just as plausible and interesting in my opinion. I think the franchise needs one of these two ideas to be presented in a movie or one of these new novels. Because we still don't have all the facts for the creation of a queen, though Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows did mention queen facehugger eggs. But the question arises: what if a single drone is isolated somewhere? Can it start a hive by one the previous two methods?
I think it should be able to, because then even a single alien is a great danger if left unsupervised. Why not? When a single alien is away from a Queen it will eggmorph someone to become a queen facehugger egg and a bunch of other people to become normal drone eggs as a type of a guard for the new Queen until she matures and starts laying her own. Then the eggmorphing will stop because the Queens method doesn't waist bodies to become eggs but hosts themselves, severally multiplying the brood.
I think SM proposed this idea and I really like it.
That's an interesting idea!
I came up with the idea in 1988. But it's certainly not "my idea". Others have come to the same conclusion completely independently.
As for the 'waste of hosts', there's nothing to stop an Alien morphing its former host into an egg as an added twist to the 'eggmorph = Queen hugger' theory.
I just wish there wasn't such an reluctance from the artists and authors to take these ideas finally at least in the novels and comics. What do they have to lose by bringing it in?
30 years of established continuity.
Eh, the AvPR bluray supplementals (of all things) made a pretty effortless and logical inclusion of it.
I was really hoping Alien: Isolation would include some sort of nod to eggmorphing.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 25, 2015, 07:19:04 AM
Eh, the AvPR bluray supplementals (of all things) made a pretty effortless and logical inclusion of it.
I don't own AvPR. What did it say?
QuoteI was really hoping Alien: Isolation would include some sort of nod to eggmorphing.
I was expecting it. Kind of disappointed it wasn't but I understood their logic for it.
Was there more about it on Blueray than on DVD? I only own the DVD Version.
I think the Weyland Yutani Archive was only on the Blu-ray.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 25, 2015, 07:29:52 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 25, 2015, 07:19:04 AM
Eh, the AvPR bluray supplementals (of all things) made a pretty effortless and logical inclusion of it.
I don't own AvPR. What did it say?
It just mentions it as an alternate reproductive method to create a Queen-producing egg/facehugger when a Queen isn't already present. I mean, it makes perfect sense to me. :)
Quote from: Doctor Ash on Aug 25, 2015, 07:42:41 AM
Was there more about it on Blueray than on DVD? I only own the DVD Version.
The bluray has the "Weyland Yutani Archive", a supplemental feature that goes through the Alien and Predator movies (and some of the EU) and talks about locations, creature biology, other fun stuff.
It would be so easy to use this in stories. But no, the queen or the eggs are always there... (-:
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2015, 08:00:24 AM
I think the Weyland Yutani Archive was only on the Blu-ray.
Is that the one Mike was in?
No Mike's in the Science of the Xenomorph featurette (and he pops in briefly in Science of the Yautja too). The WY Archive is like a text database (with some pics and video clips) of info that you navigate around with the arrows on your remote. Had to buy the blu-ray recently and that aspect is fairly decent. Nothing revelatory, but some effort we into it - considering the film it shares a disk with.
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2015, 08:56:36 AM
No Mike's in the Science of the Xenomorph featurette (and he pops in briefly in Science of the Yautja too). The WY Archive is like a text database (with some pics and video clips) of info that you navigate around with the arrows on your remote. Had to buy the blu-ray recently and that aspect is fairly decent. Nothing revelatory, but it's a decent effort.
Thanks, SM. I really ought to bite the bullet and pick the Blu-rays of the AvPs up.
That does sound pretty interesting, but I'm fairly sure nothing could make me buy that movie :P
I picked up a double pack of both AvPs for $15AUD (about 7 quid), which is pretty cheap.
I hadn't seen the version of AvP with all the cut scenes put back and with CG blood. I'm watching it going - 'That blood looks awfully bright red...' and it just got worse...
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 25, 2015, 09:04:12 AM
That does sound pretty interesting, but I'm fairly sure nothing could make me buy that movie :P
To be fair...I wouldn't actually watch the movie. :P Just the features.
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2015, 09:08:47 AM
I'm watching it going - 'That blood looks awful bright red...' and it just got worse...
It was a terrible effort, bless them.
I'd completely forgotten that third version even existed.
I thought there was only 2? TE and Uncut?
There's two versions on the BR.
But there's a version 'in between'. The theatrical lacks things like the 1904 opening. The version I'm more familiar with has the 1904 start and maybe a couple of other extra re-added scenes. The extended version on the BR has more extra scenes along with the CG blood.
Edit: According to IMDB theres:
TC 101 min
Extended 103 min
Unrated 109 min
I have the "Definitive" tin edition and it has the Theatrical and the version with the 1904 start, extra scenes and all the CG blood. Which is the Unrated Edition according the DVD page here - http://www.avpgalaxy.net/dvds-bluray/avp-definitive-edition/ Guess I haven't seen the Extended cut.
The 103 minute Extended was on one of the DVDs in the UK (dunno about elsewhere). It's basically the theatrical with the added 1904 opening, but none of the other Unrated changes. I think it might've come out before they actually put the full Unrated version together.
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2015, 09:08:47 AMI hadn't seen the version of AvP with all the cut scenes put back and with CG blood. I'm watching it going - 'That blood looks awfully bright red...' and it just got worse...
I actually quite like some of the stuff that adds, but Jesus the blood looks terrible.
None of the extra stuff helps. Nor does it hurt.
The one scene that could've helped was Verheiden calling Miller a beaker. At least he then has a motive to be an arsehole towards Miller. Problem is in the next exchange where Verheiden says "Laugh it up, Miller". It undermines his disdain by calling him Miller instead of Beaker.
Quote from: SM on Aug 25, 2015, 11:09:52 AMNone of the extra stuff helps. Nor does it hurt.
Never said it did, just that I quite like some of the extra scenes :)
Except the blood. That hurts. My eyes.
Soooo... What are the chances we will get a podcast in the near future about the Weyland yutani report?!? :-)
We recorded an interview with Locusta not long back. RidgeTop and I are going to record a bit of a discussion about the book to go on the front of it. Just waiting for a good chance because I was ill the last few times (and for the interview unfortunately) and I sound like death.
It'll be the next one released.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 27, 2015, 07:27:42 AM
We recorded an interview with Locusta not long back. RidgeTop and I are going to record a bit of a discussion about the book to go on the front of it. Just waiting for a good chance because I was ill the last few times (and for the interview unfortunately) and I sound like death.
It'll be the next one released.
Glad to hear this; I look forward to the podcast! :-)
Here's Perfect Organism's podcast interview with John Mullaney. who did the sketches in the book. Seems like a nice guy.
http://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/222385387
https://soundcloud.com/perfectorganismpodcast/episode-16
I haven't listened to the podcast yet but I've spoken to John a few times and he's a damn nice chap. I've downloaded the podcast to listen to on the drive to work tomorrow.
I'll have to give that a listen, I loved his work.
Just listened to the whole thing. Good interview. John says at the end that he's sure there will be a regular edition of the book at some point. Hope the nice folks at Weyland Yutani don't do anything untoward to him for making that sort of statement.. ;-)
Can anybody tell me what the book has to say about the egg/fetus thing? ???
Broad speculative biological uses for the Aliens genetic makeup.
RidgeTop and I should be recording our conversation tonight (for me) so we should see the next podcast and the Locusta episode later this week or early next week.
Yeah would surely love a standard copy, feel it would be a great addition with the colonial marines handbook for reference for my fanfic. Gotta say though the special edition cover is the most badass cover ever.
Recording went well. Just gotta review the podcast later tonight and then should be up soon.
I could never finish reading the CMTM. It was just way too dry for me.
It was pretty heavy going. Very technical (no pun intended).
I've read it all, but I'm not sure I've ever done it in one sitting.
Oh yeah I will admit its one hell of a labour to read but its good for the little details I need, the worse part was the section on the aliens themselves that was a maze of information. Just out of curiosity hicks; what's the depth of information on the aliens on the yutani report?
It goes into quite some detail, yeah.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2015/09/13/avpgalaxy-podcast-28-interview-with-markus-pansegrau-about-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report/
New podcast is up!
Excellent interview! Well done all around.
Nice.
Interesting interview. Amazing how we industrial designers often find ourselves inspired by the Alien franchise...
Cool podcast. Markus' work over the years has been extraordinary. Great stuff.
Thanks for the kind words guys. Glad you enjoyed it.
Nice to see Markus give Willie Goldman some well deserved credit as well. He's a top chap and one of the most dedicated and generous contributors to the scene there is.
I never realized just how involved he was until recently.
This may have been previously mentioned, and I simply missed that but apparently a standard edition was released last year, only in France.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/2364802776/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=2364802776&linkCode=as2&tag=rpffacebook-20&linkId=G4XF26QSSESFVYSD
There's also a standard edition in Spain. But currently there's no English-language version other than the Collector's Edition.
Nice. I've been following him on DeviantArt for quite a few years. Incredible artist.
On a side note, I've been very curious how the info in The Weyland-Yutani Report compares/differs to the old Anchor Point Essays website. I'd love to pick it up, but funds have been tight lately.
Not nearly as detailed as Anchorpoint.
Just listened to the podcast. Another great one in my opinion. Going to checkout the Alien Saga podcasts as well. I will pick up the standard version of the WY Report when the Sideshow collectible isn't your only option (at a typical Sideshow price).
Quote from: SM on Sep 14, 2015, 09:41:44 PM
Not nearly as detailed as Anchorpoint.
Nowhere near. However, it's that kind of feel I thought.
I never got to read Anchorpoint, such a shame it was taken down.
If anyone has the link you should still be able to WayBack it.
http://web.archive.org/web/20130521165614/http://anchorpointessays.com/
Ah, awesome!
I'll have a sift.
Quote from: SM on Sep 14, 2015, 09:41:44 PM
Not nearly as detailed as Anchorpoint.
What's an anchor point?
I believe it's a reference to one of two opposing space stations in the Gibson draft of Alien 3. Though I could be mistaken on that.
It is. You can read all about Anchorpoint here: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/scripts/alien-3-william-gibson-1988-01.pdf (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/files/scripts/alien-3-william-gibson-1988-01.pdf)
However the discussion is about the Anchorpoint Essays: http://web.archive.org/web/20130521165614/http://anchorpointessays.com/ (http://web.archive.org/web/20130521165614/http://anchorpointessays.com/)
Great podcast guys as always you never fail to please, keep up the great dedicated work. As for Marcus what can I say, he seems as awesome a person as his artwork. What a legend!
Um, it's been a while now. I'm ready for my regular edition Weyland Yutani report.... ???
Urgh, I finally gave in and bit the bullet. Halloween treat to myself. Managed to find a copy for £199 here in the UK so I went for it and am extremely angry at myself for giving in, but I've seen copies going from between £250-£350 so it's a small saving at least.
But on the plus side for you guys there will inevitably be an announcement for a £50 standard edition in the very near future now I've spent big bucks!!!
Between this and x-files blu ray, I hope the missus doesn't see my bank balance...
Welcome to the gang ;D
Is the book any cheaper now that time has passed or is it still the same $350 price (including shipping) from SideShow?
My god it's absolutely huge...
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Oct 23, 2015, 05:56:27 PM
My god it's absolutely huge...
That's what she said. ;D
John has posted some of his Nostromo artwork on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.950018481740073.1073741843.106948306047099&type=3
QuoteHere's my artwork of the Nostromo, produced using pencil, watercolour, ink & Photoshop and featured in 'Alien: The Weyland-Yutani Report'.
This piece took a great deal of research & I'm indebted to two people in particular: Derrin Procter who kindly provided me with his 3D digital model of the ship which I used to set up the artwork. And also to my colleague Graham J. Langridge who produced the definitive Nostromo blueprints and who gave me so much detailed feedback about the content during the production process .
Special thanks as ever to Willie Goldman for providing me with so much archive photography of the original minature's build at Bray studios from 1978 ( I was four years old at the time growing up a few miles west of Bray in Reading, also in Berkshire ). I was lucky enough to recently meet some of the modellers who worked on the original miniature including Dennis Lowe, Ron Hone and Roger Nichols.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11027458_950018655073389_1037196378335810633_n.jpg?oh=febe5fc505ec0abc83658b9cdc870641&oe=56EAA108)
That picture of the Nostromo looks really good, thanks for sharing it with us, Hicks.
I love the general design of this and the Sulaco, there's something that feels so realistic about them.
Will there ever be a standard edition of this book? [Face - Sad]
Still unknown at this point, I'm afraid.
For the US at least, the last word on the subject is "no."
That's really frustrating! I can't afford a 300 $ book and don't speak french or spanish. As i'm german i hope there will be a german edition if there will be no standard edition in english!
This is ridiculous. I'm not buying this book, but not because of the price tag, but because I think that sculpted alien on the front is a bit ridiculous. I just want a normal edition of the book...
I still stand by my opinion there will be one eventually, they're just hoping to shift more of the fancy ones first.
It makes no sense to do standard editions in Spanish and French, then screw English speaking countries.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 21, 2015, 01:31:56 PM
This is ridiculous. I'm not buying this book, but not because of the price tag, but because I think that sculpted alien on the front is a bit ridiculous. I just want a normal edition of the book...
To be fair the sculpted Alien is just a removable outer case, or at least that's what the Sideshow product photos show.
It is. It's a slipcase.
I'm not gonna lie, I've been edging ever-closer to caving and dropping the $300 or whatever for a copy, especially after learning that it comes with a bunch of fun little doodads, trinkets, and "artifacts" that a mass-market print edition likely wouldn't have. I loved that shit when it came with The Alien Vault (and The Terminator Vault), I'm a huge sucker for that kind of stuff.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 24, 2015, 02:12:42 PM...especially after learning that it comes with a bunch of fun little doodads, trinkets, and "artifacts" that a mass-market print edition likely wouldn't have.
I found a video showing a flick through of the standard Spanish edition, and by comparing it to my own, it seems the standard edition includes some of the extra trinkets, but not all of them (mostly missing out the funkier ones, like anything printed on acetate etc.) I made a list of the ones exclusive to the Collector's Edition on here (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Alien%3A_The_Weyland-Yutani_Report).
Okay I have to ask, is Jones' vet report dated before or after 'Alien'?
And all of those collector's edition exclusives sound super-cool. But I don't wanna spend $300................ :(
I'll check when I get home, Xenomrph.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 23, 2015, 08:44:18 AM
I still stand by my opinion there will be one eventually, they're just hoping to shift more of the fancy ones first.
It makes no sense to do standard editions in Spanish and French, then screw English speaking countries.
It would make sense if Fox thought no one cared enough about the book to make a profit; sadly, this could very well be true with some of the recent fiascos the franchise has been having. :(
Quote from: predxeno on Nov 24, 2015, 05:47:20 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 23, 2015, 08:44:18 AM
I still stand by my opinion there will be one eventually, they're just hoping to shift more of the fancy ones first.
It makes no sense to do standard editions in Spanish and French, then screw English speaking countries.
It would make sense if Fix thought no one cared enough about the book to make a profit; sadly, this could very well be true with some of the recent fiascos the franchise has been having. :(
Like what? Alien Isolation was well received, Prometheus made a lot of money and is getting a sequel, and I haven't seen sales numbers for Fire and Stone or the Titan novels but I'm pretty sure they've been pretty well received, too.
Alien Isolation was well received, true, but it still isn't getting a sequel. :( Fire and Stone was meh but the story focused too much on Prometheus and that was what inevitably made many fans have a distaste for it. The Titan novels were ok but in my personal opinion, Out of the Shadows and River of Pain were the only good ones (so far).
I dunno, it seems like Creative Assembly is a little lukewarm on Isolation's sales numbers, for SEGA seems pleased enough. In an interview linked on these forums, Sega's CFO or someone high-up said that a sequel wasn't completely out of the question.
That's better than nothing I guess, even if we probably shouldn't hold our breath.
So...good news!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F81LlIXnuR1L.jpg&hash=b71567160c4b37a2632ff7baa0f1547dc3caf480)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alien-Weyland-S-D-Perry/dp/1608878333/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451390645&sr=8-1&keywords=weyland+yutani+report
Just trying to confirm it.
Yesss!!!
(And I mean that in the most Napoleon Dynamite kind of way)
Funny how this is announced just a couple of days after Christmas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aBJgqgANHY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aBJgqgANHY)
Very cool!
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Dec 29, 2015, 04:17:06 PM
Funny how this is announced just a couple of days after Christmas.
It's only a pre-order. Not like the cash would come out for another 9 months.
Superb. Can't wait to get my hands on this.
Totally awesome news!
In that case, perhaps I'll end up with one after all. :)
Peachy.
It is listed in Canada now as well on Chapters.ca. It is coming out on September 20, 2016.
https://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-ca/books/alien-the-weyland-yutani-report/9781608878338-item.html?ikwid=alien+weyland&ikwsec=Home&ikwidx=0
60 CAD list price
53.40 CAD online
I feel bad for the people who bought the $300 edition thinking it was the only version to come out. It was certainly ballsy of Fox to tell everyone that there was no standard edition coming out to raise sales and then release one anyway.
That being said, I've already preordered mine.
I'm still curious as to how well that Collectors' Edition sold. I mostly saw dislike of the price.
I'll be picking up a Standard Edition too.
Quote from: predxeno on Dec 30, 2015, 01:45:15 AM
I feel bad for the people who bought the $300 edition thinking it was the only version to come out. It was certainly ballsy of Fox to tell everyone that there was no standard edition coming out to raise sales and then release one anyway.
That being said, I've already preordered mine.
How is that ballsy? It would've been more ballsy of them to inform the public of a standard edition and still expect people to buy a 300 dollar special edition. What they did here seems like pretty normal sales tactics.
"Ballsy" was an analogy for "bitchy" actually, it's outright lying to the fans to make a profit; many would see that as unethical if not outright immoral.
People lie to make profits all the time. Corporations doubly so.
Count me in, but september is a loooong way down the road...
Yes, a September release basically means it is an item for next Christmas...
I worked on this project and couldn't find one reference to "there will be no standard edition" - especially since one *was* released in France, Spain, and Italy at the same time as this one. Can you show me where this was stated? I mean, it's only really been a few months since the Special Edition actually hit the open market and now here's a more affordable version. And I think calling them liars is a little much - no one was lied to and if the studio is guilty of anything it's giving customers a chance to get the book at a much more reasonable price point. I for one am just happy we got this book at all, and that the studio gave our community artists a global showcase for their work. Cool move, actually...
An AvPGalaxy member emailed someone at either Fox or Sideshow and they said there would be no standard edition, no public statement was ever made but all of us took that confirmation to be fact when it was released. That member posted this information earlier in this thread I believe, but this thread is so huge that it would be a pain to go through every page looking for that specific post.
Some people in this forum actually bought the $300 version because they believed the "statement" that no standard edition would be released. I just feel for them.
Quote from: predxeno on Dec 30, 2015, 08:58:43 PM
An AvPGalaxy member emailed someone at either Fox or Sideshow and they said there would be no standard edition, no public statement was ever made but all of us took that confirmation to be fact when it was released. That member posted this information earlier in this thread I believe, but this thread is so huge that it would be a pain to go through every page looking for that specific post.
Some people in this forum actually bought the $300 version because they believed the "statement" that no standard edition would be released. I just feel for them.
This is rumour control, here are the facts... :P
(Seriously though, did this person give proof? Like a screen shot of the email? I don't remember this well as it was quite a while ago.)
No one bothers to post pictures of emails anywhere on the internet, people normally just send emails to companies on behalf of the community and report back on what they hear. I think the person who emailed them was an admin on this forum, but it was so long ago I can't be sure.
I called it all along there'd be a standard edition eventually.
Quote from: predxeno on Dec 30, 2015, 09:04:51 PMI think the person who emailed them was an admin on this forum, but it was so long ago I can't be sure.
It was Corporal Hicks. I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I hope you're not accusing him of being deliberately misleading to us. I imagine that was simply the information he was given.
Please don't put words in my mouth, also please read my earlier posts. I never suggested someone in this forum was misleading, that was someone else's post; I'm saying it was the corporation that was misleading.
To be clear myself, I wasn't accusing you of anything, just wanted to make it clear he was probably just passing on the info he was given, or, at a pinch, passing on the information he had been told to give :)
As for the situation, yes, it is a bit crappy to claim there won't be a cheap version when there will be, just to push sales. Crappy, but not exactly surprising. If a numbskull like me can see through it then hopefully others weren't fooled either.
Ah ok, no harm then. :) And yes, I saw through the scheme as well which is why I ultimately decided against buying the $325 (+$25 shipping and handling) version as well. At this point I literally have no respect for Fox anymore, their corruption of this franchise is simply beyond words I can find.
If Fox actually said there would be no normal version then that actually would false advertising. Allegedly. Allegedly.
Anyway, can't wait for the book. The lame sales tactics aside, there was a lot of work that went into it by some very talented people and that is respectable.
I always trust Corporal Hicks, I didn't mean to make it sound like Predxeno or myself were accusing him of anything. I misremembered and thought it was someone else who said there won't be a standard edition so I was wondering if there was a screenshot of the reply.
Like how I see links to Twitter responses etc or direct quotes of an interview. I'm kind of used to it. My apologies for the misunderstandings.
Quote from: predxeno on Dec 30, 2015, 09:21:14 PMI'm saying it was the corporation that was misleading.
I get what you're saying, but checked the thread and couldn't find a single statement where Fox said,
"We will not be releasing a standard edition" - so not sure where they were misleading at all. Someone posting here in this thread is far from an official statement. Again, they released the standard edition in Europe the same time as the special edition.
I would also like to just mention that (if I'm remembering this rightly and I will go check) it was from one of the editors at Insight and it was "no plans at this time." That has obviously changed. Which is something I'm sure everyone will be happy about.
Exactly, I'm just happy a version within my budget is coming out! Pre-ordered, so hopefully I can get a sweet, sweet low price like I got on the FaS collection.
Sorry, my bad. That was paraphrasing. The actual reply was "Insight currently has no plans for a trade edition of the book." Which was back in July. And it was from one of the editors at Insight.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 30, 2015, 10:46:07 PM
Sorry, my bad. That was paraphrasing. The actual reply was "Insight currently has no plans for a trade edition of the book." Which was back in July. And it was from one of the editors at Insight.
That makes perfect sense, cheers, Hicks.
I hope to get my copy of this book as soon as I can.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 29, 2015, 12:05:01 PM
So...good news!
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81LlIXnuR1L.jpg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alien-Weyland-S-D-Perry/dp/1608878333/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451390645&sr=8-1&keywords=weyland+yutani+report
Just trying to confirm it.
A little late to the party, but hell yes.
I hope it comes with the same extras and stuff as the ultra-expensive edition (but I'll understand if it doesn't).
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 02, 2016, 11:58:06 AMI hope it comes with the same extras and stuff as the ultra-expensive edition (but I'll understand if it doesn't).
If the standard editions in French and Spanish are anything to go by, most of the inserts will be omitted from the cheaper version.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 02, 2016, 12:06:10 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 02, 2016, 11:58:06 AMI hope it comes with the same extras and stuff as the ultra-expensive edition (but I'll understand if it doesn't).
If the standard editions in French and Spanish are anything to go by, most of the inserts will be omitted from the cheaper version.
That's what I couldn't remember. Do we have any lists of what we're in them?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 02, 2016, 06:02:23 PMThat's what I couldn't remember. Do we have any lists of what we're in them?
The Overview (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Alien%3A_The_Weyland-Yutani_Report#Overview) section here points out which inserts are in the French/Spanish SE and lists the inserts that are exclusive the the CE.
The added inserts are mega-tempting, but I'm not sure it justifies paying 6x the price of the "cheap" version.
They are cool, but not really worth the huge amount more you have to pay to get them (likewise the case).
I only got the Collector's Edition myself because I fortuitously came into some money around the time the book was released, so I figured I'd blow some of it.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 03, 2016, 04:24:33 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 02, 2016, 06:02:23 PMThat's what I couldn't remember. Do we have any lists of what we're in them?
The Overview (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Alien%3A_The_Weyland-Yutani_Report#Overview) section here points out which inserts are in the French/Spanish SE and lists the inserts that are exclusive the the CE.
Thank you kindly.
I feel like it's more the slipcase you're paying that extra for. In itself that thing is quite a high-end collectable.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 04, 2016, 08:41:05 AMI feel like it's more the slipcase you're paying that extra for. In itself that thing is quite a high-end collectable.
Pretty much. Although the replica of Burke's comm card is a neat little item.
Very happy about the decision to go with an for everyone affordable edition as well. Even at the risk to sound clouded by vanity, I would love to know, that every fan has it on the book shelf ;)
You have damn good reason for that vanity. :P
I'm really happy they're bringing out a standard edition. I'd like to have a copy on my shelf alongside the others.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 03, 2016, 04:24:33 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 02, 2016, 06:02:23 PMThat's what I couldn't remember. Do we have any lists of what we're in them?
The Overview (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Alien%3A_The_Weyland-Yutani_Report#Overview) section here points out which inserts are in the French/Spanish SE and lists the inserts that are exclusive the the CE.
I'm
itching to know what Mister Jones' veterinary report said.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 04, 2016, 01:56:25 PMI'm itching to know what Mister Jones' veterinary report said.
Nothing terribly exciting I'm afraid.
The debrief report from the guy aboard the Auriga was a nice touch though. Doubly so as I didn't expect anything good to be included based on that film, given its reputation.
Forgive my misunderstanding of the military but how can Hudson have discharge papers if he died in the movie? When he was whining about 4 more weeks and out did that mean that his discharge was already formalized and it was just a matter of time before he was let go?
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 04, 2016, 02:03:24 PMWhen he was whining about 4 more weeks and out did that mean that his discharge was already formalized and it was just a matter of time before he was let go?
You just answered your own question :)
So Mister Jones wasn't preggers or anything exiting? :-\
Was Hudson's discharge an honourable one or more of a dishonourable one?
I'm wondering if this book is supposed to be exclusively canon to the new Alien universe from Neil Blomkamp's highly anticipated sequel. Is there any mention to the events of Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection in this book? And I don't mean just by the featuring of the the Runner, since the DNA Reflex is a significant part of the Alien anatomy it will certainly be canon in either universe.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 04, 2016, 05:41:19 PM
I'm wondering if this book is supposed to be exclusively canon to the new Alien universe from Neil Blomkamp's highly anticipated sequel.
No, the book was already finished long before Blomkamp's film was even announced.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 04, 2016, 05:41:19 PM
Is there any mention to the events of Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection in this book? And I don't mean just by the featuring of the the Runner, since the DNA Reflex is a significant part of the Alien anatomy it will certainly be canon in either universe.
Yes, there is about sixteen pages devoted to Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection respectively.
What did those pages mention?
How's your Spanish?
From 3:43
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Rx4Hxxjbk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Rx4Hxxjbk)
Thanks. :)
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 04, 2016, 05:41:19 PMIs there any mention to the events of Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection in this book?
A significant portion of the book is devoted to the characters and events of the third and fourth films. They very much happened in whatever universe this fictional report was published in.
I've no idea how accurate it is, but Goodreads is giving a release date of September 2016 for the basic edition.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 04, 2016, 10:15:36 PM
I've no idea how accurate it is, but Goodreads is giving a release date of September 2016 for the basic edition.
Amazon was giving 20th of September for release too.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 05, 2016, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 04, 2016, 10:15:36 PM
I've no idea how accurate it is, but Goodreads is giving a release date of September 2016 for the basic edition.
Amazon was giving 20th of September for release too.
Same in Canada at Chapters.ca as I mentioned earlier. Seems to be a fairly firm date.
To be honest, I kind of prefer not to have all the extra junk in the book that will keep falling out or getting lost. I mean Burke's card can't be good for the binding of the book. Remember how thick that card was in the movie? Can you imagine if you had to have one of those to call everyone? What were the designers thinking? It's so funny to think that our little iPhones are more advanced with Skype technology than that future tech. Boy did we overshoot expectations on that one... Now let's get that FTL travel down pat...
Eager to read Space Beast by Robert Morse!!! ;D
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Jan 05, 2016, 06:39:49 PM
Eager to read Space Beast by Robert Morse!!! ;D
For sure. I'd love to read that as well. That seems like a great addition to the book actually. Hopefully it will be built into the book properly but not holding my breath. Some decades ago, I actually contemplated writing an Alien IV with Morse as the lead character. Went nowhere. He's too 2-D.
I wonder how they'll present it in the standard edition. It was a pullout in the Collector's Edition. I was a tad disappointed with it as it came across as if it'd been the whole thing but it was just so short. Would have liked it better had they been presented as excerpts.
I still think Morse has potential for future use - as does Fury, at a stretch.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 05, 2016, 05:06:10 PMI mean Burke's card can't be good for the binding of the book.
It's held in a little wallet affixed to the inside of the (hard)back cover. Shouldn't damage the binding at all.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 06, 2016, 08:09:15 AMI wonder how they'll present it in the standard edition. It was a pullout in the Collector's Edition.
Judging by the video of the Spanish standard version (Eight posted it earlier) the inserts are handled in the same way as the bumper edition, glued in with that peely snot glue. There's just far less of them.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 06, 2016, 08:09:15 AMI was a tad disappointed with it as it came across as if it'd been the whole thing but it was just so short. Would have liked it better had they been presented as excerpts.
That kinda disappointed me too. Don't get me wrong, it was a great read, but the fact it was meant to be the document in its entirety when it was only like 8 pages long was a bit disappointing.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 06, 2016, 08:41:03 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 06, 2016, 08:09:15 AMI wonder how they'll present it in the standard edition. It was a pullout in the Collector's Edition.
Judging by the video of the Spanish standard version (Eight posted it earlier) the inserts are handled in the same way as the bumper edition, glued in with that peely snot glue. There's just far less of them.
Hadn't actually watched the video - those kind of videos bore me a bit to be honest - but I've just watched now. Thanks.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 06, 2016, 08:47:02 AMHadn't actually watched the video - those kind of videos bore me a bit to be honest.
Same, but I was researching that list of exclusive inserts for the Wiki page :)
Fair enough. Can't fault you there.
I wonder if any of the errors in the Collector's Edition will be corrected for the new version? Like how Vriess' first name is given as Dom when Crispin's novel says it's John (all the other names tie up between the two books), or how it erroneously says he died on the Auriga when clearly he lived.
I believe SM was letting the Editors know any errors that slipped through so I wouldn't be surprised.
Bottom line. Considering how much this costs would you recommend spending the cost getting it?
I like the pics, but i wonder how good a long term investment this will be.
That depends how big an Alien fan you are, if you are a hardcore follower then there's no question whether or not this book is worth its price (the information inside is invaluable, never mind the beautiful illustrations); however what with the new canon that's coming out, many fans may want to reconsider purchasing and wait for a more updated version. :-\
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 06, 2016, 11:50:39 PM
That depends how big an Alien fan you are, if you are a hardcore follower then there's no question whether or not this book is worth its price (the information inside is invaluable, never mind the beautiful illustrations); however what with the new canon that's coming out, many fans may want to reconsider purchasing and wait for a more updated version. :-\
Are we certain that there are going to be updated versions?
I mean... as far as handbooks go, I wouldn't even really purchase them. Look how many times Marvel's made guide books and almost all of them are now irrelevant. Same thing with Star Wars since the EU reboot. I'm an Alien fan (more so Predator but...) yet, I don't think I'll go out of my way to get either version. Especially with Blomkamp's movie believed to re-assign Alien 3 and Resurrection.
I was being theoretical, actually, when I was talking about updated versions. Sorry. :(
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 06, 2016, 11:58:18 PM
I was being theoretical, actually, when I was talking about updated versions. Sorry. :(
Why are you apologizing? There's nothing to be sorry for.
Personally... as much as I am a fan, I don't think I'll be getting this. Handbooks just... I don't know, seem kind of pointless, especially for a continuity that's going to be migrated or re-assigned.
Yeah, if canons are going to get reassigned then that is a pretty big deterrent.
Current and future projects are based on the timeline as it stands in the WYR. Neill Blomkamp's film is still on hold and likely to be so for at least 18 months.
Quote from: felix on Jan 06, 2016, 10:02:44 PM
Bottom line. Considering how much this costs would you recommend spending the cost getting it?
I like the pics, but i wonder how good a long term investment this will be.
For £30 I'd recommend in a heartbeat! The Collector's Edition is lovely but really depends on your own finances.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 06, 2016, 11:50:39 PM
however what with the new canon that's coming out, many fans may want to reconsider purchasing and wait for a more updated version. :-\
Not at all. A) We don't know exactly how Alien 5/3.2 will effect the timeline/canon (which I'm starting to think is quite a pointless thing anyway) and B) the film wont be out for another 3/4 years at the least.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 06, 2016, 11:50:39 PMhowever what with the new canon that's coming out, many fans may want to reconsider purchasing and wait for a more updated version. :-\
What Hicks said.
Plus, who cares if the book is overwritten one day? Surely you'd be buying it because it's a gorgeous book and wouldn't care if one day something it says isn't 100% accurate? And It'd still be an accurate tie-in to the existing four films anyway.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 06, 2016, 11:50:39 PM
That depends how big an Alien fan you are, if you are a hardcore follower then there's no question whether or not this book is worth its price (the information inside is invaluable, never mind the beautiful illustrations); however what with the new canon that's coming out, many fans may want to reconsider purchasing and wait for a more updated version. :-\
I guess that puts me on the fence. If it costs me more $70 bucks here in Singapore, i probably won't get it.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 07, 2016, 08:40:49 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 06, 2016, 11:50:39 PMhowever what with the new canon that's coming out, many fans may want to reconsider purchasing and wait for a more updated version. :-\
What Hicks said.
Plus, who cares if the book is overwritten one day? Surely you'd be buying it because it's a gorgeous book and wouldn't care if one day something it says isn't 100% accurate? And It'd still be an accurate tie-in to the existing four films anyway.
Exactly. If the future films negate current films 3 and 4 and the book gets revised without the film 3 and 4 entries, then this is the only proper technical reference you will have for those films. And if future books feature alternate entries combined, then the book will be more expensive. I would seriously try to save a few dollars and pick this up when it hits shelves in September. You can't lose. Looks like an awesome volume...
Quote from: felix on Jan 08, 2016, 02:50:02 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 06, 2016, 11:50:39 PM
That depends how big an Alien fan you are, if you are a hardcore follower then there's no question whether or not this book is worth its price (the information inside is invaluable, never mind the beautiful illustrations); however what with the new canon that's coming out, many fans may want to reconsider purchasing and wait for a more updated version. :-\
I guess that puts me on the fence. If it costs me more $70 bucks here in Singapore, i probably won't get it.
I'd be surprised if it was more than $70 in somewhere like Kinokuniya. Popular sure isn't going to stock it.
And if it does got for $70+, you can order online from The Book Depository, which is cheaper than retail about 99% of the time.
I'll probably order through the Bookweb at Kinokuniya. Hopefully they'll be a discount and i can get the price below $70.
P.S - I thought i was the only Singaporean here!
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 07, 2016, 12:28:35 AM
Yeah, if canons are going to get reassigned then that is a pretty big deterrent.
If canons get reassigned, would you also stop buying any copy of Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection as well?
I already have all the copies, but I was referring to the more casual fans with that statement rather than myself.
In all fairness, I imagine most of us one here would classify ourselves as more than casual fans.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 09, 2016, 08:18:03 PM
In all fairness, I imagine most of us one here would classify ourselves as more than casual fans.
I live and breathe Predator. My phone's wallpaper is nothing but an animated Predator face. :P :laugh:
Funny, this book was announced and then there were rumors of a standard edition. Then Blomkamps Alien movie was announced and side show said there were no plans for a standard edition(im guessing because blomkamps movie would delete 3 and Resurrection which are mentioned in this book.). Now, if my theory is correct and alienkamp is dead ala Scott, then it makes perfect sense that a standard edition is being announced. Too bad its too late for tim lebbon to add his resurrection intro into predator incursion :/
Neill Blomkamps film didn't impact on the production of the book.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 09, 2016, 09:17:41 PM
I live and breathe Predator. My phone's wallpaper is nothing but an animated Predator face. :P :laugh:
You haven't lived and breathed Predator if you haven't met Ian Whyte, given him artwork of your own Predator, and created your own home made cosplay of a Predator! :P
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 11, 2016, 05:19:45 AM
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 09, 2016, 09:17:41 PM
I live and breathe Predator. My phone's wallpaper is nothing but an animated Predator face. :P :laugh:
You haven't lived and breathed Predator if you haven't met Ian Whyte, given him artwork of your own Predator, and created your own home made cosplay of a Predator! :P
Comeon now, it's not a fandom competition.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 09, 2016, 07:38:36 PMI already have all the copies, but I was referring to the more casual fans with that statement rather than myself.
This isn't really a book for casual fans.
Now that I think of it, I don't think a casual fan would buy the book so yeah, you guys are probably right in that regard.
Casual fan here and no, I did not buy the book.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 12, 2016, 11:50:59 AM
Casual fan here and no, I did not buy the book.
I take it you're more of a hardcore Alice in Wonderland fan?
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 12, 2016, 01:04:35 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 12, 2016, 11:50:59 AM
Casual fan here and no, I did not buy the book.
I take it you're more of a hardcore Alice in Wonderland fan?
Does that have aliens in it? To answer the question, no, I'm not an Alice in Wonderland fan. The whiterabbit moniker is more from the matrix iirc. Ugh it's been so long since my favorite sites server crashed and burned. Other than that, it means nothing.
The White Rabbit in the Matrix was a very obvious Alice in Wonderland reference.
Still, 5,437 posts is quite impressive for a "casual fan" on a site like this.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 13, 2016, 01:34:50 PMThe White Rabbit in the Matrix was a very obvious Alice in Wonderland reference.
Morpheus even talks about going down the rabbit hole.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 13, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
The White Rabbit in the Matrix was a very obvious Alice in Wonderland reference.
Still, 5,437 posts is quite impressive for a "casual fan" on a site like this.
Indeed it is. However the Alice part wasn't apart of the context.
I consider myself a casual fan because I love the movies and only once in a while go out of the way to read a book or comic. I want to buy some toys er I mean models- figures? or whatever they're called but the man in me says that's for children and hard core fans. I admit that I do read up on some of the expanded stuff because I'm interested in where the story could beheaded. Aliens is among my favorite films period, if not my most favorite.
Still I don't do much more than chat here so I consider myself a casual fan. I mean I don't even have a Weaver autographed pair of panties. What kind of true fan doesn't have one of those. :'(
Hey, I've been lurking in this forum for a while and saw this on Amazon (US) today and thought I'd share. Looks like there might be a regular edition after all?
I'm crossing my fingers at least!
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Weyland-S-D-Perry/dp/1608878333/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453390336&sr=8-1&keywords=weyland+yutani+report (http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Weyland-S-D-Perry/dp/1608878333/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453390336&sr=8-1&keywords=weyland+yutani+report)
Hi Golic's Girl. Welcome to the board!
They are certainly doing a standard edition! We're quite happy about that! Have you ordered a copy?
Thanks for the welcome!
I'm always a bit late on the news I guess. But I haven't ordered yet (money's still a bit tight after the holidays) I'm definitely ordering a copy soon though :D
Are there any differences from the Standard and Collector's Editions?
Standard version may not have some/ all the inserts. I don't imagine it'll have Burke's plastic business card for instance. The others- not sure.
I understand. it would be nice to know what exactly will we be getting.
I'm sure we will closer to the time.
Quote from: felix on Jan 24, 2016, 01:51:53 PMAre there any differences from the Standard and Collector's Editions?
As I mentioned previously, the Spanish standard version misses out most of the insert items - it has four or five whereas the collector's edition has more like fifteen or twenty. I imagine the English edition will be the same.
Otherwise the actual contents of the book seems to be identical. SM mentioned the new edition will probably correct some of the mistakes in the original.
I am interested in that Alien 3 survivor story insert. Hopefully it'll be in the Standard Edition.
It was in the Spanish edition :)
Ooo yes! I was hoping to read the excerpt from Space Beast too! Glad to hear there's a chance it will be included!
:) Simply put , it is " Beautifully Bound " The sculpted "Alien Jaws with forehead
on the binder is well done. The Book it self is of highest quality , it has so
fun information on the film including " Prometheus" , I realise "AvPGalaxy
did review and podcast ,All I can say grab it before it goes ..
This is more of this book. The way they are floundering around with the
sequels or prequels , and cancelling Alien 5, or indefinite hold , Books and
other media , keeps fans going..
It does appear that the quality of merchandising of the movies is overtaking the movies themselves.
I haven't read any of the recent novels or comics; but the action figures we are seeing released are getting better all the time. 'ALIEN: Isolation' itself was a revelation on how media other than the movies is right up on the top shelf along with anything any other video game has to offer.
As to the 'The Weyland Yutani' book itself, I'm looking for its eventual release later this year. September, if I recall correctly. I don't mind if it's missing the sculpted cover and all the other inclusions, which are all well and good in their own right, I'm just happy that the publisher recognises that not everyone wants to spend hundreds of dollars on a collector's item. That the same book will sell for around $40 is going to be well received and be affordable. I'm all for that. I'll be getting one of those.
Mind you, Scott had better deliver the goods with 'ALIEN: Covenant'. 'Prometheus' had promise but was lack luster despite its flashy presentation.
At the end of the day, in terms of cinema releases, 'ALIEN' needs a good kick in the pants and to stop dragging its tail.
-Windebieste.
I got a notification from Amazon yesterday saying it had been pushed back to October.
Figures.
Little update :D
https://insighteditions.com/product/alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-trade-ed/
Not sure now if Amazon is still right with their release statement or not. I will investigate that, if somebody interested.
P.S. and here some other release time: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28592979-alien
Really glad you work will be getting out there in a format more people will likely actually see.
I like that cover. It looks like it's a slip cover? Cardboard perhaps?
Just came to a decision. I am going to get this.
Can someone get a confirmation on the Release Date?
Try to figure that out. Stay tuned and thanks.
I was surprised to know that this was coming out in late April. Amazon listed it on Sept 20th.
Just got confirmation from the Insight Editions Team. The Release Date is April 26th.
Quote from: felix on Feb 12, 2016, 09:57:25 AM
Just came to a decision. I am going to get this.
Can someone get a confirmation on the Release Date?
It still available ,But if really want, be Quick " Sideshow Collectibles " is where I purchased my copy .
Quote from: felix on Feb 12, 2016, 09:56:00 PM
I was surprised to know that this was coming out in late April. Amazon listed it on Sept 20th.
Just got confirmation from the Insight Editions Team. The Release Date is April 26th.
This April?
Yes.
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Weyland-Yutani-Stephani-Danelle-Perry/dp/160887866X/ref=pd_rhf_se_p_img_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=037FFT5BC9DN819FZG4G
Fantastic. Quite a few releases in April now.
And here we have our "ALIEN" Day :D ;D
And I just noticed. Lol!
John just shared some artwork from the book on Facebook:
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12715396_1004416162966971_9209574991180497157_n.jpg?oh=c37a25654549fe3caf0d4f080def2070&oe=576E8267)
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1004416056300315.1073741848.106948306047099&type=3
My Amazon preorder got canceled, but it looks like I can re-order it with the April release date so it's all okay, haha.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 20, 2016, 04:16:47 PM
My Amazon preorder got canceled, but it looks like I can re-order it with the April release date so it's all okay, haha.
Dammit!! That happened to me too!!
Quote from: Glaive on Feb 25, 2016, 08:15:43 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 20, 2016, 04:16:47 PM
My Amazon preorder got canceled, but it looks like I can re-order it with the April release date so it's all okay, haha.
Dammit!! That happened to me too!!
Same here.
The Amazon release date was wrong from beginning. Just reorder and get it for "ALIEN Day". Thanks.
I don't know about you guys but I can't pre-order the new one on Amazon.
So after the Sept. one on Amazon get's vetoed, there's now the April 26th one (which is also listed elsewhere like B&N) which i was all set to order when i see another May 20th one - that's half the price also on Amazon. I think they're trying to keep us confused.
In Canada, Chapter.ca has it listed for May, 6, 2016..
https://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-ca/books/alien-the-weyland-yutani-report/9781608878666-item.html?ikwid=weyland+yutani&ikwsec=Home&ikwidx=0
You can pre-order that for 56.91 CAD. That works out to about 42 USD. Not sure if they ship to U.S. though...
Quote from: waltergolicsgirl on Feb 29, 2016, 02:47:37 PM
So after the Sept. one on Amazon get's vetoed, there's now the April 26th one (which is also listed elsewhere like B&N) which i was all set to order when i see another May 20th one - that's half the price also on Amazon. I think they're trying to keep us confused.
Yeah seriously, do I preorder the April 26th one at $40 or should I preorder the May one at $20? I want the official copy, and all this looks confusing; if they're both the same item then I would get the cheaper one for waiting 1 month.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 29, 2016, 05:48:13 PM
Quote from: waltergolicsgirl on Feb 29, 2016, 02:47:37 PM
So after the Sept. one on Amazon get's vetoed, there's now the April 26th one (which is also listed elsewhere like B&N) which i was all set to order when i see another May 20th one - that's half the price also on Amazon. I think they're trying to keep us confused.
Yeah seriously, do I preorder the April 26th one at $40 or should I preorder the May one at $20? I want the official copy, and all this looks confusing; if they're both the same item then I would get the cheaper one for waiting 1 month.
Yeah, there's the April one here:
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Weyland-Yutani-Stephani-Danelle-Perry/dp/160887866X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456903646&sr=8-1&keywords=weyland+yutani+report
And the May one here:
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Weyland-Yutani-S-D-Perry/dp/1783293527/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1456903646&sr=8-2&keywords=weyland+yutani+report
I don't understand. ???
I've messaged Insight Editions but i suspect the release date has been pushed back into May.
This site lists it as a May 6th release (its usually accurate(.
https://bnccatalist.ca/ViewTitle.aspx?ean=9781608878666
Just got confirmation from Insight Editions. The Release Date is still April 26th.
The May Amazon link is incorrect and will be taken down.
Excellent news! Thanks.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alien-Weyland--Yutani-S-D-Perry/dp/1783293527/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1458036487&sr=1-1&keywords=alien+weyland+yutani+report
There's now a working Amazon pre-order with the new cover but it's not releasing Aliens Day according to this.
So... What's the deal? Insight are still saying April 26th but Amazon's saying May 20?
US Amazon still has it as April 26, 2016 as the listed preorder date
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Weyland-Yutani-Stephani-Danelle-Perry/dp/160887866X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458170485&sr=8-1&keywords=weyland+yutani+report
Not sure what´s going on with Amazon, but the book will be due on ALIEN day 4.26
Right now in Chicago at the C2E2 Insight Editions presents the standard edition: https://www.instagram.com/insighteditions/
Use code "A L I E N 3 0" for 30% off "Alien: The Weyland-Yutani Report" when you order directly from Insight Editions.
Thanks. :)
I got burnt by Amazon on preordering so much that Ill never do it again, not with them, so Ill just wait for this beauty to come out
Book Depository is offering this at almost the same price as Amazon (a wee bit less) for pre-order with FREE Shipping World Wide and no sales I think.
http://www.bookdepository.com/Alien---Weyland-Yutani-Report-S-D-Perry/9781783293520?ref=grid-view
I must say I absolutely love the Spanish and French covers, but Im not that crazy about the US (and Im guessing UK) one. Oh well, the inside looks great from the previews
So this isn't coming out on April 26th...
Insight Editions has reassured me that the Release Date is still April 26th.
Looks like Amazon are now shipping this.
Yeah, that seems to be the case. I got an E-mail this morning that said it should be here on the 12th. :o
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 08, 2016, 03:31:20 PM
Yeah, that seems to be the case. I got an E-mail this morning that said it should be here on the 12th. :o
Ditto for me as well.
Can't say I'm complaining haha.
Amazon's still being a funny bugger with my order: Still no update on my order. Still says it's released 20th May or something like that.
I got a bad feeling about this shop...
Many thanks guys! Happy to know you will soon own it as well, and hopefully like it.
The models you made were awesome. Can't wait to see the finished product.
I just hope Amazon doesn't screw me over...
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 08, 2016, 03:31:20 PM
Yeah, that seems to be the case. I got an E-mail this morning that said it should be here on the 12th. :o
Would you be able to share some pictures when you get it? I'm curious to see the differences between the fancy pants edition and this one.
Got my copy in the mail today, it looks pretty great. I haven't had time to do much more than page through it a bit at this point.
I'm a little miffed that the apparent cover art on Amazon isn't actually cover art. It isn't even a dust jacket. It's kind of hard to describe, it's just a thin strip of paper that wraps around part of the outside of the book and is taped on the inside covers. I'm likely going to remove it and throw it away, it's really not secured to the actual book very well to begin with and it feels kinda cheap. I'd kind of liken it to the semi-disposable outer slip cover you see with some blurays (especially steelbooks) but even less impressive.
Also I'm a little disappointed that the book gives LV-426's size as the (incorrect, IMO) 1200km figure, rather than using the 12,000km figure from the USCM Tech Manual. I can't say I'm that surprised, though.
Receiving this book also motivated me to FINALLY get back to reading Fire and Stone (I got the "complete edition", but the book is just so goddamn huge that it's a bit of a chore to read comfortably). Somehow I never made the connection that Prometheus' LV-223 and Alien's LV-426 were both moons of the same planet. Did Prometheus actually indicate that? Or is that something that was established outside of the movies?
This is a bit of a personal preference thing, but after paging through the book a bit, I kinda wish it was visually more of an "in universe" book in the way the USCM Tech Manual is. Like, don't get me wrong, the artwork is gorgeous and really visually impressive, and the actual text itself (what little I've skimmed) feels like it's mostly written in an in-universe style like the USCM Tech Manual was, but the total package just doesn't quite convey the feeling of "this is an official report that a W-Y employee could pick up off a bookshelf and read".
Like the USCM Tech Manual has this sort of "dryness" where visually the layout is all very mundane and, well, technical, even if the actual content and pictures are really interesting. The Weyland Yutani Report feels a little bit more like a Dorling Kindersley "visual guide" by comparison.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 13, 2016, 10:19:00 AM
Receiving this book also motivated me to FINALLY get back to reading Fire and Stone (I got the "complete edition", but the book is just so goddamn huge that it's a bit of a chore to read comfortably). Somehow I never made the connection that Prometheus' LV-223 and Alien's LV-426 were both moons of the same planet. Did Prometheus actually indicate that? Or is that something that was established outside of the movies?
IIRC you see LV-426 in a graphic depicting the planet in Prometheus. Not 100% on that though.
QuoteThis is a bit of a personal preference thing, but after paging through the book a bit, I kinda wish it was visually more of an "in universe" book in the way the USCM Tech Manual is. Like, don't get me wrong, the artwork is gorgeous and really visually impressive, and the actual text itself (what little I've skimmed) feels like it's mostly written in an in-universe style like the USCM Tech Manual was, but the total package just doesn't quite convey the feeling of "this is an official report that a W-Y employee could pick up off a bookshelf and read".
Like the USCM Tech Manual has this sort of "dryness" where visually the layout is all very mundane and, well, technical, even if the actual content and pictures are really interesting. The Weyland Yutani Report feels a little bit more like a Dorling Kindersley "visual guide" by comparison.
It is very much intended as an in-universe piece and the writing reflects that throughout. I understand your issue there though. Personally I never liked the dry style of the CMTM so I was glad this wasn't such a dull read.
No I get that it's intended as an in-universe book, and the writing (mostly) does reflect that, it's more of the visuals paired with the writing and the way the pages are laid out. It doesn't actually feel like an official report.
From what I've seen, I'd say they struck a fairly good balance that takes you in-universe, but still gives you an enjoyable experience as a real life reader and customer.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 13, 2016, 10:19:00 AMGot my copy in the mail today, it looks pretty great.
Really confused that you've received this as everyone (including Amazon, who I'm guessing you bought it from) still list it as being released in May.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 13, 2016, 05:04:27 PM
No I get that it's intended as an in-universe book, and the writing (mostly) does reflect that, it's more of the visuals paired with the writing and the way the pages are laid out. It doesn't actually feel like an official report.
Any special items attached to the book pages?
Amazon has it in stock and ready to ship when I look at it.
US Amazon has it ready to ship (despite saying it's not released until April 26, lol) but UK Amazon is still saying May 20.
Seems we may be getting a different release date over here.
The dates for release on certain books seem to be all over the place. I remember when I ordered Alien: River of Pain from Chapters.ca in Canada, the book arrived several weeks before it was released.
Quote from: felix on Apr 14, 2016, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 13, 2016, 05:04:27 PM
No I get that it's intended as an in-universe book, and the writing (mostly) does reflect that, it's more of the visuals paired with the writing and the way the pages are laid out. It doesn't actually feel like an official report.
Any special items attached to the book pages?
Yeah, I haven't gone page-by-page through the whole book yet but I've seen a few things taped to various pages. Morse's 'Star Beast' (I still wish they'd used the title 'The Dragon' but whatever), John J Marachuk's medical report, an official complaint from Lambert after Ripley refuses to break quarantine, etc.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 14, 2016, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: felix on Apr 14, 2016, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 13, 2016, 05:04:27 PM
No I get that it's intended as an in-universe book, and the writing (mostly) does reflect that, it's more of the visuals paired with the writing and the way the pages are laid out. It doesn't actually feel like an official report.
Any special items attached to the book pages?
Yeah, I haven't gone page-by-page through the whole book yet but I've seen a few things taped to various pages. Morse's 'Star Beast' (I still wish they'd used the title 'The Dragon' but whatever), John J Marachuk's medical report, an official complaint from Lambert after Ripley refuses to break quarantine, etc.
Lambert lodged a complaint against Ripley?For following standard procedure.Ripley should have lodged a complaint against her for assault!
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 15, 2016, 03:02:58 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 14, 2016, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: felix on Apr 14, 2016, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 13, 2016, 05:04:27 PM
No I get that it's intended as an in-universe book, and the writing (mostly) does reflect that, it's more of the visuals paired with the writing and the way the pages are laid out. It doesn't actually feel like an official report.
Any special items attached to the book pages?
Yeah, I haven't gone page-by-page through the whole book yet but I've seen a few things taped to various pages. Morse's 'Star Beast' (I still wish they'd used the title 'The Dragon' but whatever), John J Marachuk's medical report, an official complaint from Lambert after Ripley refuses to break quarantine, etc.
Lambert lodged a complaint against Ripley?For following standard procedure.Ripley should have lodged a complaint against her for assault!
Yeah, she kinda didn't really have time for that. Things kind of went sideways at that point.
But... If Lambert's report survived, then that should have corroborated Ripley's report n'est pas?
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 15, 2016, 05:01:03 AMYeah, she kinda didn't really have time for that. Things kind of went sideways at that point.
They had like 24 hours while Kane was lying in the infirmary getting face-humped...
got my copy in the mail today; oddly some of the events in the "space beast" insert are out of order vs what happens in the film. also its pretty cool how it references alien out of the shadows and isolation but I would have liked if there was a little more information on the Sevastopol encounter given that WY bought the station(if there was enough time to get the information) and does the events of the origin project being left out mean that colonial marines if officially non canon?
I got my copy today, and looking through it, I'm pleased that I didn't cancel my order like I was considering. I love how salty the section on Resurrection sounds at times. W-Y clearly has no respect for the USM. :laugh:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fs1hFtgBh.jpg&hash=23818048a7acf20eee922034ae3f25c1f2118ab9)
Quoteand does the events of the origin project being left out mean that colonial marines if officially non canon?
Correct.
OMG. He returns. :D
Reading through a bit more thoroughly, it's cool to see that the question of Michael Bishop gets addressed!
Also, we're getting pretty close to the foundation of the USM (2226) in the new Life and Death comics (2222), so I wonder if we'll see that at some point.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 15, 2016, 07:46:23 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 15, 2016, 05:01:03 AMYeah, she kinda didn't really have time for that. Things kind of went sideways at that point.
They had like 24 hours while Kane was lying in the infirmary getting face-humped...
In Aliens, Ripley said that her crew was wiped out in less than 24 hours so one would presume that was from the moment of contact until Lambert's big moment. But granted the officers could have snuck off to fill out all sorts of reports within that time before all the excitement.
Quote from: SM on Apr 16, 2016, 12:40:20 AM
Quoteand does the events of the origin project being left out mean that colonial marines if officially non canon?
Correct.
Kind of unfortunate, in my opinion.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 16, 2016, 09:50:17 PMIn Aliens, Ripley said that her crew was wiped out in less than 24 hours so one would presume that was from the moment of contact until Lambert's big moment. But granted the officers could have snuck off to fill out all sorts of reports within that time before all the excitement.
She meant from when it was born, I guess. Because Kane's clearly under for quite a long time, and don't Parker and Brett specifically say their repairs will take around 24 hours, and they don't even leave LV-426 until they're done?
Yeah, Parker estimates that the repairs will take about a day, and Kane is under for pretty much that entire time.
So lots of time for Lambert to write a brief report. Especially as a navigator wouldn't have a whole hell of a lot to do while they're just sat there not moving.
Parker's estimations seemed to me to be hyperbole. Brett gave one figure, then Parker gave another one. They were trying to make it look like they were doing more work than they really were. Ultimately, they did not even finish all of the repairs because Dallas gave the order to take off without them. It's tricky to pinpoint exactly how long it took.
Regardless, it still obviously took plenty of time for Lambert to jot down a quick report. They had a serious electrical fire on board. It would've taken hours to fix at the very least.
Certainly seems like a shorter gestation than Ripley's Queen doesn't it? In Alien 3 it felt like days went by. I never really analyzed it too closely, but the way Ripley healed so quickly was amazing. Perhaps the queen aids in healing before she kills you?
The longer period can quite easily be explained as being precisely because she had a Queen gestating inside of her. I also don't think it would be a stretch to say that the chestbursters are capable of providing some additional protection to the host through accelerated healing (I assume you mean her recovery from coming out of hypersleep like she did?) It would make sense they'd want to keep their meat cocoons all healthy. And there does seem to be some sort of genetic crossover during the process so it's possible the embryo can lend its accelerated metabolism and healing.
All hypothetical, of course.
The other (less interesting) explanation is that Alien gestation lasts exactly as long as the plot needs it to. :P
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 18, 2016, 03:30:14 PM
The other (less interesting) explanation is that Alien gestation lasts exactly as long as the plot needs it to. :P
It is the same for the strength of the acid as well unfortunately.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 18, 2016, 03:30:14 PMThe other (less interesting) explanation is that Alien gestation lasts exactly as long as the plot needs it to. :P
The idea of a Queen taking longer at least seems to make some kind of logical sense.
I also liked the explanation in the novelisation of
Resurrection that says Purvis has a medical condition that slows down the growth of the Chestburster inside him, hence why he's still walking around so longer after everyone else has popped, but it never made it into the movie.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 18, 2016, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 18, 2016, 03:30:14 PMThe other (less interesting) explanation is that Alien gestation lasts exactly as long as the plot needs it to. :P
The idea of a Queen taking longer at least seems to make some kind of logical sense.
I also liked the explanation in the novelisation of Resurrection that says Purvis has a medical condition that slows down the growth of the Chestburster inside him, hence why he's still walking around so longer after everyone else has popped, but it never made it into the movie.
Oh, that is interesting. Imagine if the Chestburster actually cured diseases while inside prior to popping? That would double the horror.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 18, 2016, 04:53:52 PMOh, that is interesting. Imagine if the Chestburster actually cured diseases while inside prior to popping? That would double the horror.
Well according to some old articles on Alien biology Chestburster development causes a whole lot of fatal cancer, so even if you somehow survived the birth you'd soon die anyway.
Yeah, that idea was in
ACM, but the concept actually pre-dates the game by like 20 years so I feel OK approving it :)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 18, 2016, 06:12:09 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 18, 2016, 04:53:52 PMOh, that is interesting. Imagine if the Chestburster actually cured diseases while inside prior to popping? That would double the horror.
Well according to some old articles on Alien biology Chestburster development causes a whole lot of fatal cancer, so even if you somehow survived the birth you'd soon die anyway.
Was that in the old magazine?
Yep. Really love those articles. Shame they only ever did the two.
I vaguely recall something about articles from the magazines being included in the CMTM?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 18, 2016, 06:55:03 PMI vaguely recall something about articles from the magazines being included in the CMTM?
Yeah, the
Tech Manual basically evolved from the Technical Readout section in the magazine, which was the same kinda deal and written by the same guy (Brimmicombe-Wood). Some of the stuff is practically identical, although they wrote a
lot more for the book.
The two Alien biology articles never made it across, though; the few snippets of biology discussed in the
Tech Manual are mostly new stuff, and much less detailed.
It would have been great if we had some sections that displayed dissected xeno's and bits of information about their anatomy and nature. I'm in the middle of reading Aliens Labyrinth and the bit where Church is discussing the xeno's behavior while conducting an autopsy on one is a real eye opener! Not to mention the novel adaptation was also by SD Perry. Hopefully WY releases a report on Preds in the near future! Aside from that, i loved how Michael Bishop is confirmed as being human with synthetic implants. That was always my theory before and after Avp. I mean, if it worked for Eisenberg in Avp 2, why not? I also love how theres no mention of ACM or walmart. Few weird things though, WY seems very confused by the details of the incident on Fury 161. Even going as far as believing there were two facehuggers? Lots of far out theories in those articles. Another interesting thing, even though Fire and Stone(canon) confirm it, the book is very vague on the locations of LV-223 and LV-426. It states LV-426 is one of three moons of the ringed giant Calpamos but when mentioning LV-223 it states its merely a moon in the Zeta 2 Reticuli system. Oh yeah, some of the character pics that are missing could have been found in the Quadrilogy boxed set booklet. So glad i didn't buy the Sideshow version. Seems like this was put together in a rush.
I just received my copy and it looks amazing, has anyone noticed that at the beginning of the book, there's an email address that the reader is supposed to mail the book to if found (otherwise will be prosecuted by W-Y authorities :laugh:)? Has anyone tried contacting that email address? I know it's a fictional web address for a fictional company, but sometimes the writers actually do make up an address and respond to people who do email them. The address is 349000/S21/WYS@CORP.NET, the slashes probably make it an invalid address but I'm not an expert on such things. Also, does anyone know if this book acknowledges any of the EU? I would think not as this book seems only to focus on the Alien movies, but I haven't read every page yet.
It acknowledges Isolation, Fire and Stone, and the Titan Books trilogy.
Might have to give that E-mail a shot. ;D
I am so excited for this. May 20th cannot come quick enough. Can anyone tell me the dimensions and how they sit next to the 'Complete Fire And Stone' ?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Apr 23, 2016, 05:41:09 PM
It acknowledges Isolation, Fire and Stone, and the Titan Books trilogy.
Might have to give that E-mail a shot. ;D
Can you point me to where it references them? I'd be interested in giving them a look.
It has a very detailed outline of the life cycle but does not take egg morphing into consideration, does anyone know the reasoning behind this?
Well eggmorphing took place in a deleted scene, regardless I wouldn't consider this guide to be a "total and thorough" encyclopedia on the Alien species; ignoring for the moment that it says nothing about the EU or the Predators, it also doesn't have any information about the events occurring after Prometheus (assuming Alien: Covenant can be in the same universe as Alien 3 and Rez).
QuoteFew weird things though, WY seems very confused by the details of the incident on Fury 161. Even going as far as believing there were two facehuggers?
It's a long standing theory that there were two huggers. Always have to remember that the 'voice' of this book wasn't an eyewitness, but compiling available data. Data that was primarily relating to the theatrical cut of the film in which there was no super hugger.
QuoteIt has a very detailed outline of the life cycle but does not take egg morphing into consideration, does anyone know the reasoning behind this?
It's only ever appeared in one film, which was a directors cut. While the theatrical cut has pretty much taken precedence there is this:
"Data supports obligate parthenogenesis—that is, that
the Xenomorph reproduces exclusively through asexual
means—but until adult specimens of XX121 can be properly
studied, it is impossible to further classify the full means or
method of reproduction."
So it's not ruling egg morphing out.
QuoteCan you point me to where it references them?
The timeline references Isolation in 2137 and Fire & Stone in 2219. There's the odd reference to River of Pain in the text. Sea of Sorrows occurs after the book was produced.
Quoteignoring for the moment that it says nothing about the EU
The only 'EU' under consideration is listed above.
Quoteit also doesn't have any information about the events occurring after Prometheus (assuming Alien: Covenant can be in the same universe as Alien 3 and Rez).
Anything post-Prometheus had been redacted in the manner of Shaw and David's crew profiles.
Okay that makes sense then, at least its left open to debate.
The book really made me want to see a movie taking place in the far future where a re-established WY is actively pursuing a xenomorph specimen in the far reaches of the universe. A whole movie from the perspective of the company and its goals after the events of the 4 original movies and what we have learned from Prometheus and will learn from covenant would be pretty interesting to see and a possible conclusion to the entire series.
Quote from: SM on Apr 23, 2016, 10:13:22 PM
Anything post-Prometheus had been redacted in the manner of Shaw and David's crew profiles.
I know it's only a small thing but that really tickled me. I absolutely loved the thematic elements throughout the book.
Come on Predator Weyland Yutani Report!
That'd be the OWLF Files.
Quote from: SM on Apr 26, 2016, 02:04:05 AM
That'd be the OWLF Files.
Are there any plans in motion for that? A "OWLF Files" book would be a great follow up/companion piece to what you've done with the Weyland-Yutani report.
Not to my knowledge.
Quote from: marrerom on Apr 26, 2016, 03:28:20 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 26, 2016, 02:04:05 AM
That'd be the OWLF Files.
Are there any plans in motion for that? A "OWLF Files" book would be a great follow up/companion piece to what you've done with the Weyland-Yutani report.
I'd love to see a Predator companion book (shit, I'd love to contribute to it).
I'd love a similar Predator book, but I'm not really convinced there's enough lore in the films to make it much of anything. The movies are hardly expansive in their themes. Predators show up and kill some dudes. Sure, there's the OWLF, but they're only in one movie and you never really find out much about them.
Of course, you could go into the EU, but the W-Y Report didn't. It was basically just about the movies.
OWLF is referenced in AvP:R, so if you include them you have five films to draw upon - same as WYR.
True enough. But then that Alien book didn't go into the AVPs, and I'm not sure I'd want a Predator one to do so either.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a comparable book for the Predator series, I'm just not convinced the world of the films is expansive enough to make it much of anything.
Between Predator technology, biology, and culture (and maybe drawing on the EU a bit more heavily than the WY report did -- I wish the WY report drew on the EU more than it does, to be honest), I don't think it'd be difficult to write a comparable book.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 26, 2016, 07:38:51 AM
I'd love a similar Predator book, but I'm not really convinced there's enough lore in the films to make it much of anything. The movies are hardly expansive in their themes.
Supposedly Shane Black's Predator film will be larger in scope and content then the previous ones. Hopefully it will add a lot more to the mythology.
Quote from: SM on Apr 26, 2016, 08:34:37 AM
OWLF is referenced in AvP:R, so if you include them you have five films to draw upon - same as WYR.
How come AvP wasn't referenced in the WYR? The company has a pretty large presence in the film and the founder is a central character. Its a big omission. I've heard it argued that Prometheus conflicts with AvP but really doesn't. It just doesn't directly reference it.
Quote from: marrerom on Apr 26, 2016, 03:17:26 PMHow come AvP wasn't referenced in the WYR? The company has a pretty large presence in the film and the founder is a central character. Its a big omission.
Because
AVP never happened according to the book.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 26, 2016, 03:30:45 PM
Quote from: marrerom on Apr 26, 2016, 03:17:26 PMHow come AvP wasn't referenced in the WYR? The company has a pretty large presence in the film and the founder is a central character. Its a big omission.
Because AVP never happened according to the book.
An unfortunate oversight in my opinion, although one could argue that it was due to licensing issues (AvP is licensed separately from Alien or Predator) and wanting to keep the book Alien-centric and not have the potential distraction of a second extraterrestrial race getting mentioned.
Less an oversight, more a deliberate choice, I'd imagine.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 26, 2016, 04:04:06 PM
Less an oversight, more a deliberate choice, I'd imagine.
I wonder why though? They could have added the info about Weyland corps, Charles Weyland, "building a better future", etc. It would have added more to the book since it's supposed to be an in-universe report about the company's contact with the Alien. Leave out all the stuff about predators though. That way its still an Alien centric book.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 26, 2016, 04:04:06 PM
Less an oversight, more a deliberate choice, I'd imagine.
Oh it was absolutely deliberate, but perhaps for the reason I mentioned.
Quote from: marrerom on Apr 26, 2016, 04:27:46 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 26, 2016, 04:04:06 PM
Less an oversight, more a deliberate choice, I'd imagine.
I wonder why though? They could have added the info about Weyland corps, Charles Weyland, "building a better future", etc. It would have added more to the book since it's supposed to be an in-universe report about the company's contact with the Alien. Leave out all the stuff about predators though. That way its still an Alien centric book.
Because Predators were kind of central to what happened in AvP, it's difficult to leave them out.
If they'd planned a Predator companion book from the start, then they could have offhandedly mentioned them but then said "for more information on Species 7958672848, see "Report XYZ"" or whatever.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 26, 2016, 03:30:45 PM
Because AVP never happened according to the book.
And yet, Fox still has AVP on their canon list according to Tristan.
For what it's worth, Fire and Stone has references to the AVP movies with the blooding symbol on the Predators' heads.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 26, 2016, 05:43:36 PM
For what it's worth, Fire and Stone has references to the AVP movies with the blooding symbol on the Predators' heads.
Yeah but that was changed in Omega. A wizard did it.
Not really, just inconsistent artists designs.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 26, 2016, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 26, 2016, 03:30:45 PM
Because AVP never happened according to the book.
And yet, Fox still has AVP on their canon list according to Tristan.
I'm just curious, do you have a source for that?
I could see reasons why AvP isn't referenced in the WY report, but it doesn't really contradict anything any more than the Weyland Corp website timeline did.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 26, 2016, 06:24:16 PM
I'm just curious, do you have a source for that?
Here you go, from Tristan himself. It's on the thread which you've been posting at too.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=54309.msg2110640#msg2110640
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 26, 2016, 06:27:02 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 26, 2016, 06:24:16 PM
I'm just curious, do you have a source for that?
Here you go, from Tristan himself. It's on the thread which you've been posting at too.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=54309.msg2110640#msg2110640
I totally overlooked that post (and didn't realize that user was a content creator, to be honest). Thanks :)
Who is Tristan exactly? ???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 26, 2016, 08:29:54 PM
Who is Tristan exactly? ???
Tristan Jones. The guy who is writing and doing art for Defiance.
Ah, thanks. :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Brian Wood is writing Defiance. Tristan is doing the art.
And I don't believe AvP was left out for licensing issues.
Quote from: SM on Apr 26, 2016, 10:21:25 PM
Brian Wood is writing Defiance. Tristan is doing the art.
My bad.
:)
Quote from: SM on Apr 26, 2016, 10:21:25 PM
Brian Wood is writing Defiance. Tristan is doing the art.
And I don't believe AvP was left out for licensing issues.
Well, I mean, it wasn't
totally left out. The arm shield made out of an Alien's head on 3rd to last page is directly taken from AvP.
And although I've heard it said that Prometheus totally ignores AvP I noticed a subtle reference to AvP in the Weyland corporate timeline: "1990: Peter Weyland is born in Mumbai, India to an Oxford-educated Professor of Comparative Mythology and a
self-taught engineer." That self taught engineer being Charles Bishop Weyland.
I wouldn't take that Corporate timeline as gospel. I mean sure it was meant to tie into the movie but there are... issues with it.
Quote from: marrerom on Apr 27, 2016, 12:29:14 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 26, 2016, 10:21:25 PM
Brian Wood is writing Defiance. Tristan is doing the art.
And I don't believe AvP was left out for licensing issues.
Well, I mean, it wasn't totally left out. The arm shield made out of an Alien's head on 3rd to last page is directly taken from AvP.
And although I've heard it said that Prometheus totally ignores AvP I noticed a subtle reference to AvP in the Weyland corporate timeline: "1990: Peter Weyland is born in Mumbai, India to an Oxford-educated Professor of Comparative Mythology and a self-taught engineer." That self taught engineer being Charles Bishop Weyland.
By 'left out' I meant the events and characters. I'm not sure SD was specifically referring to AvP with the Alien body armour, as it covers a number of items.
As things currently stand there's no link between Peter and Charles.
Yes, if I remember correctly when reading that timeline, there was no way that the lives of Peter and Charles could overlap.
They overlap - Peter was born in 1990 and Charles died in 2004.
But that's really neither here nor there.
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2016, 01:28:52 AM
They overlap - Peter was born in 1990 and Charles died in 2004.
But that's really neither here nor there.
Looks like I don't remember correctly after all... It could have been some of their deeds that didn't line up. It was long ago when I read that, but the impression I got was that something didn't quite sync up. Is that timeline still up somewhere?
The origins of their respective corporations don't fit. Charles' company was founded in the early 1980s. Peter's in 2012.
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2016, 01:37:21 AM
The origins of their respective corporations don't fit. Charles' company was founded in the early 1980s. Peter's in 2012.
Couldn't that be explained away through corporate re-branding? Like how the private security firm "Black Water" went through a corporate makeover and now calls itself "Academi". All in a effort to distance itself from the bad press it garnered during the Iraq war.
I see Peter Weyland doing something similar in order to distance himself from his father's legacy.
Quote from: marrerom on Apr 27, 2016, 01:48:01 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2016, 01:37:21 AM
The origins of their respective corporations don't fit. Charles' company was founded in the early 1980s. Peter's in 2012.
Couldn't that be explained away through corporate re-branding? Like how the private security firm "Black Water" went through a corporate makeover and now calls itself "Academi". All in a effort to distance itself from the bad press it garnered during the Iraq war.
I see Peter Weyland doing something similar in order to distance himself from his father's legacy.
Indeed. You could even start a separate corporation in a different region. I started a company in 2012, and then my company under a similar name was started in 2014 in a different country. It is possible.
Quote from: marrerom on Apr 27, 2016, 01:48:01 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2016, 01:37:21 AM
The origins of their respective corporations don't fit. Charles' company was founded in the early 1980s. Peter's in 2012.
Couldn't that be explained away through corporate re-branding? Like how the private security firm "Black Water" went through a corporate makeover and now calls itself "Academi". All in a effort to distance itself from the bad press it garnered during the Iraq war.
I see Peter Weyland doing something similar in order to distance himself from his father's legacy.
Peter Weyland called his company 'Weyland' in order to distance himself from his father's company - also called 'Weyland'?
Weyland corp. vs Weyland industries. Just a subtle difference to denote the change in direction he would be bringing to it and to distinguish himself from his father. It makes sense, yes?
I don't think it would fly with the fictional public. Or the real one. If Nike Inc. changed their name to Nike Corp. - everyone is just going to see 'Nike'.
The Peter Weyland version freely uses 'Corp', 'MegaCorp' and 'Industries' interchangeably anyway.
And while not wishing to shut down speculation and ideas, as things currently stand there's no link between Peter and Charles.
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2016, 02:26:24 AM
I don't think it would fly with the fictional public. Or the real one. If Nike Inc. changed their name to Nike Corp. - everyone is just going to see 'Nike'.
The Peter Weyland version freely uses 'Corp', 'MegaCorp' and 'Industries' interchangeably anyway.
This is such a minor issue though... Surely
this isn't the reason why AvP wasn't included in the WYR. There are any number of plausible explanations to account for a corporation to have two separate start dates.
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2016, 02:26:24 AM
And while not wishing to shut down speculation and ideas, as things currently stand there's no link between Peter and Charles.
I would argue that them having the same last name and being involved in the same company are links.
*edit*
Anyway, going back to what you said earlier about the possibility of a O.W.L.F. files type follow up. Would some kind of kick starter like a "go fund me" help in anyway? Lots of projects have gotten off the ground that way and I would definitely love to see a Predator centric book in the style of WYR get made.
QuoteThis is such a minor issue though... Surely this isn't the reason why AvP wasn't included in the WYR.
I don't know why for certain why it wasn't included. That decision was made well before I got involved.
QuoteI would argue that them having the same last name and being involved in the same company are links.
If you believe it is the same company, then yes that would count as a link.
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2016, 02:38:58 AM
QuoteThis is such a minor issue though... Surely this isn't the reason why AvP wasn't included in the WYR.
I don't know why for certain why it wasn't included. That decision was made well before I got involved.
As I mentioned, it could very well be a licensing/branding thing (similar to the reason that the USCM Tech Manual *technically* only directly references the second movie). It's not the first time it's happened with Aliens/Predator/AvP stuff.
That, and why would they want to distract readers with talk of another crazy extraterrestrial species when the book is meant to focus on the Alien?
I'm not saying a Predator cameo wouldn't have been appreciated, but I can understand why they wouldn't want to do it.
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2016, 02:05:08 AMPeter Weyland called his company 'Weyland' in order to distance himself from his father's company - also called 'Weyland'?
This. The "re-branded" idea is dumb because the change would be so utterly pointless in a real-world context.
More to the point, changing your company's name doesn't suddenly give you a new founding date. Apple was still officially founded in 1976, even if it's name was originally Apple Computers. No one's going to claim it was founded in 2007 because that's when they slightly tweaked the name.
^^ And to re-iterate the point again. It would be an inanely pointless move from a PR standpoint. It's just stretching to reconcile the differences.
QuoteAnyway, going back to what you said earlier about the possibility of a O.W.L.F. files type follow up. Would some kind of kick starter like a "go fund me" help in anyway? Lots of projects have gotten off the ground that way and I would definitely love to see a Predator centric book in the style of WYR get made.
No. If one of the wealthiest organisations in the world thinks there is money to be made with such a book - they would fund it themselves.
If such a book were to happen, it would likely be on the back of the new film.
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2016, 09:25:08 AM
If such a book were to happen, it would likely be on the back of the new film.
That gives me not-unrealistic hope that something could happen. Maybe I'll start spamming FOX's twitter accounts...
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 27, 2016, 07:43:00 AM
The "re-branded" idea is dumb because the change would be so utterly pointless in a real-world context.
More to the point, changing your company's name doesn't suddenly give you a new founding date. Apple was still officially founded in 1976, even if it's name was originally Apple Computers. No one's going to claim it was founded in 2007 because that's when they slightly tweaked the name.
Perhaps the company was dissolved following the events in AvP and then re-established by by Peter Weyland in 2012. There are any number of ways that this issue could be addressed. Whatever reason AvP was excluded for its safe to say that conflicting dates wasn't it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 27, 2016, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2016, 09:25:08 AM
If such a book were to happen, it would likely be on the back of the new film.
That gives me not-unrealistic hope that something could happen. Maybe I'll start spamming FOX's twitter accounts...
You and me both. I am beyond impressed with the level of detail in this book and would love for a Predator equivalent.
Quote from: marrerom on Apr 27, 2016, 06:32:04 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 27, 2016, 07:43:00 AM
The "re-branded" idea is dumb because the change would be so utterly pointless in a real-world context.
More to the point, changing your company's name doesn't suddenly give you a new founding date. Apple was still officially founded in 1976, even if it's name was originally Apple Computers. No one's going to claim it was founded in 2007 because that's when they slightly tweaked the name.
Perhaps the company was dissolved following the events in AvP and then re-established by by Peter Weyland in 2012. There are any number of ways that this issue could be addressed. Whatever reason AvP was excluded for its safe to say that conflicting dates wasn't it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 27, 2016, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2016, 09:25:08 AM
If such a book were to happen, it would likely be on the back of the new film.
That gives me not-unrealistic hope that something could happen. Maybe I'll start spamming FOX's twitter accounts...
You and me both. I am beyond impressed with the level of detail in this book and would love for a Predator equivalent.
I'm not a big predator fan, but yes it would be cool to see pages and pages of different armors and different types of Predators and all that jazz.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 26, 2016, 05:43:36 PM
For what it's worth, Fire and Stone has references to the AVP movies with the blooding symbol on the Predators' heads.
That was nicked from the original Dark Horse comics anyway. I'd say DH are allowed to use it without it being a tie to the films.
Quote from: robbritton on Apr 28, 2016, 08:39:30 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 26, 2016, 05:43:36 PM
For what it's worth, Fire and Stone has references to the AVP movies with the blooding symbol on the Predators' heads.
That was nicked from the original Dark Horse comics anyway. I'd say DH are allowed to use it without it being a tie to the films.
Actually it wasn't, the writers said before the release of F&S that there would be no references to previous EU. Furthermore, even if the writers took the idea from the original story, then they would have used the comics' blooding symbol rather than the movie's.
The avp fire and stone predators were weird anyway as they appeared to look like the super preds from predators in armor and tech but when unmasked were original preds. It seemed like the writers and artists just kinda took from a lot of sources without much thought..
That's true lol, let's also not forget that Prometheus's questions of life kept popping up annoyingly throughout the arc. Not everybody is a fan of that film, is it too much to ask for one arc to not feature a Prometheus-related theme?
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Quote from: predxeno on Apr 29, 2016, 07:37:07 PM
That's true lol, let's also not forget that Prometheus's questions of life kept popping up annoyingly throughout the arc. Not everybody is a fan of that film, is it too much to ask for one arc to not feature a Prometheus-related theme?
Apparently, I would think it is! :D
Well, what little I've heard of Aliens: Defiance seems to indicate it'll be a return to form before Prometheus started infecting everything with its plot, so I'm happy at least for that.
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Quote from: predxeno on Apr 29, 2016, 07:45:16 PM
Well, what little I've heard of Aliens: Defiance seems to indicate it'll be a return to form before Prometheus started infecting everything with its plot, so I'm happy at least for that.
After Fire and Stone, I gave up on the EU. At least I have the old EU material which maybe effectively it's own universe now. By the way, did you get my PMs?
Aside from AvP F&S and Omega I thought the rest of the Fire & Stone series was really good, better than atleast 80% of the old EU comics IMO.
Well I'm sure you'll all be beyond delighted then, that WYR only has the briefest of mentions of Fire & Stone.
I really do wish the WYR hadn't been so movie-centric, and had more EU stuff. Like I get that the movies are the biggest audience, but if the report is meant to be "as complete as possible", I'd hope it would have more data from events in the EU, or at least a token "data from [SEVASTOPOL INCIDENT] unavailable because [REASONS]".
WYR was written in 2013, and the layout more or less finalised in 2014, some six months before Isolation or Fire & Stone were released.
I'm very please the WYR ignored the EU (for the most part). Including all the comics and books would have ruined its legitimacy. Keeping strictly to the canon was the best way to go.
Quote from: marrerom on Apr 30, 2016, 03:11:26 AM
I'm very please the WYR ignored the EU (for the most part). Including all the comics and books would have ruined its legitimacy.
Not all, certainly not all Old EU had some marvelous stories, but unfortunately also had a large share of pretty awful ones. But with new EU that started with Fire and Stone, as of yet theres no bad comic yet
Quote from: marrerom on Apr 30, 2016, 03:11:26 AM
I'm very please the WYR ignored the EU (for the most part). Including all the comics and books would have ruined its legitimacy. Keeping strictly to the canon was the best way to go.
The new EU stories are part of "the canon".
Quote from: SM on Apr 29, 2016, 11:43:06 PM
WYR was written in 2013, and the layout more or less finalised in 2014, some six months before Isolation or Fire & Stone were released.
That makes a little more sense then. I keep forgetting that the book had been finished a while back, even if it's only getting a widespread (non-Sideshow) release just now.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 30, 2016, 03:01:17 PM
Quote from: marrerom on Apr 30, 2016, 03:11:26 AM
I'm very please the WYR ignored the EU (for the most part). Including all the comics and books would have ruined its legitimacy. Keeping strictly to the canon was the best way to go.
The new EU stories are part of "the canon".
I've heard this mentioned on this site several times but the only evidence that's given is from the people making the material in question. The creator's of EU content always say its canon, otherwise no one would bother reading it. Its just a marketing ploy plain and simple and until one of the films references the EU they will remain non-canon. Remember, Aliens Colonial marines was also marketed as the
official sequel to Aliens but now even the people overseeing the EU dismiss it. Only the films really matter.
Although, If I'm wrong though about the films never referencing the EU (and I might be) then I'd obviously change my stance.
I think only the first AVP draws heavily from EU, and , if one counts, Prometheus' black goo is pretty much EU's royal jelly
Quote from: StrangeShape on Apr 30, 2016, 04:42:31 PM
I think only the first AVP draws heavily from EU, and , if one counts, Prometheus' black goo is pretty much EU's royal jelly
Sure, some films have drawn inspiration from the EU (Predator 2, AvP, AvP-R), but so far as I know there isn't an example of a film referencing the EU in a way that suggests the EU events actually took place. Like, for example, if a future film referenced SEVASTOPOL and Ripley's daughter
then Alien Isolation would be canon.
All the novels and comics published since Jan 2014 are considered canon, along with Isolation.
Of course, that doesn't mean the old comics can't be decent stories worth reading.
Quote from: SM on Apr 30, 2016, 10:22:12 PM
All the novels and comics published since Jan 2014 are considered canon, along with Isolation.
Not sure what your thoughts are on this SM, but I'm sure you read this sometime ago, but Tristan did say that the AVP films and the original comic were still on Fox's "canon" list, but are seen as a "soft" continuity. Now either this means they're a resource like Star Wars old EU, but if we take the news regarding Alien 5 and Weaver's statement about it being an AU (establishing we have a multiverse now), could these be seen as a potential AU as well since they are still on that list?
We won't know how Alien 5 will fit - or if it will fit - until it comes out, and it's still some way off.
Tristan was offering an opinion on AvP being 'soft' continuity, and he may end up being correct. I expect AvP's position in the grand scheme of things will be outlined in due course.
I sometimes value your objectiveness, SM but I hope I am not confusing objectiveness with doubt. I do want a multiverse if Alien 5 does happen-- and I have a feeling the film will be released. But that's just me, of course.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'doubt'.
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2016, 12:04:14 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by 'doubt'.
You know how you get excited by something, look over the way things are going, and sometimes wonder if it's too good to be true? That's what I mean by doubt.
Oh, I see.
I tend not to get that excited to the point of disappointment anymore. I'm excited about Blomkamp's film to the point that I'm interested in what he's going to do, but if it doesn't turn out so well - there's a whole bunch of other movies that aren't going anywhere that didn't disappointment me.
Cynicism is lazy (in general; not accusing anyone) and ultimately, its just a movie. There will another movie along shortly that won't disappoint.
Quote from: SM on Apr 30, 2016, 10:22:12 PM
All the novels and comics published since Jan 2014 are considered canon, along with Isolation.
Right, I get that's what they are saying. But can you, or anyone, explain how that's any different from when Aliens: Colonial Marines was being promoted as the
official canon sequel to Aliens? It isn't. The people who create the EU
always say their content is canon, right up until its not. From what I've noticed the entire EU gets thrown out and replaced every 5-10 years, usually coinciding with the release of a new movie. I'm sure that with Alien: Covenant it will happen again.
The list Tristan spoke of on another thread is from Fox - not generated by any of the licensees.
I don't recall any other licensee besides Gearbox talking about their product being canon, so I'm not sure what you mean by "The people who create the EU always say their content is canon".
Not sure what you mean by "From what I've noticed the entire EU gets thrown out and replaced every 5-10 years, usually coinciding with the release of a new movie" either.
Canon can be fluid obviously. It's all make believe. A:CM was touted as canon; now it isn't. Things may have to be adjusted in the licensing department when Convenant comes out, but by the same token Fox knows Covenant is incoming so efforts are being made to not conflict with it (as per the change in timeframe of the Fire & Stone comics).
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2016, 01:36:17 AM
The list Tristan spoke of on another thread is from Fox - not generated by any of the licensees.
I wonder who at fox is in charge of handing out licenses and whether they really have any authority when it comes to dictating what's canon. You imply that this list is "official" but then go on to say that the EU may have to change to accommodate Covenant when it comes out. Well if this list is part of the official canon wouldn't Covenant have to adhere to it and not vice-versa? These comics and novels came first after all.
I mean, unless this list is adhered to by the movies what the point? What if, for example, Alien Covenant or Blomkamp's film contradicts those comics and novels... Wouldn't that force the EU to change once again?
Of what use is that list if the films ignore it?
When it comes to EU material, they generally are just filler material until a new film arrives. This is always very much the case, even with films like Star Wars prior to Disney's purchase and their own EU reboot. No film franchise is beholding to the EU.
Indeed.
The licensed material is spawn out of the films, so the films take precedence. Just like Alien3 and Resurrection ignoring the licensed material to that came before.
QuoteI wonder who at fox is in charge of handing out licenses and whether they really have any authority when it comes to dictating what's canon. You imply that this list is "official" but then go on to say that the EU may have to change to accommodate Covenant when it comes out. Well if this list is part of the official canon wouldn't Covenant have to adhere to it and not vice-versa? These comics and novels came first after all.
Do you know any film franchise that dictates to a new film entry that it must conform to some comic or novel, that the audience of said new film may not be familiar with?
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2016, 04:47:31 AM
Do you know any film franchise that dictates to a new film entry that it must conform to some comic or novel, that the audience of said new film may not be familiar with?
The GI Joe live action series, Transformers live action series, and there are even a few video game series that do that.
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2016, 04:47:31 AM
The licensed material is spawn out of the films, so the films take precedence. Just like Alien3 and Resurrection ignoring the licensed material to that came before.
Doesn't this just support the claim that the films are the true canon while the EU isnt?
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2016, 04:47:31 AM
Do you know any film franchise that dictates to a new film entry that it must conform to some comic or novel, that the audience of said new film may not be familiar with?
Star Wars does after its purchase by Disney. There is a committee called the "Lucas film Story Group" that keeps track of everything and makes sure that the future films, comics, etc fit within existing canon.
I feel that we are getting off topic here so we may want to continue this discussion elsewhere...
Quote from: predxeno on May 01, 2016, 04:53:15 AM
Transformers live action series, and there are even a few video game series that do that.
In the case of Transformers, well... that's explained as having a multiverse. Even the live action series has it's own continuity cluster and is designated by name, and there are sub-branches within their branch.
As far as video games... the only known video game series which I know has an EU is Street Fighter that I actively read, and those generally aren't considered canon within the series. As for others... I don't know. I don't read other series like Halo or Mass Effect.
QuoteThe GI Joe live action series, Transformers live action series, and there are even a few video game series that do that.
None of those began as films though. If they made a Half Life film, I would expect the source material, the games, to be canonical, and the spin off films to have their own continuity.
QuoteDoesn't this just support the claim that the films are the true canon while the EU isnt?
If you like.
We'd be able to have a more open conversation if NDAs weren't involved. ;)
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2016, 05:21:34 AM
We'd be able to have a more open conversation if NDAs weren't involved. ;)
Are you involved in more projects now, cause... that kinda threw me off there.
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2016, 05:21:34 AM
If you like.
We'd be able to have a more open conversation if NDAs weren't involved. ;)
Well yeah, I do like. :P
And your comment on NDA's leads me to believe that there are some big plans in motion regarding the continuity of the franchise...
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2016, 05:21:34 AM
QuoteThe GI Joe live action series, Transformers live action series, and there are even a few video game series that do that.
None of those began as films though. If they made a Half Life film, I would expect the source material, the games, to be canonical, and the spin off films to have their own continuity.
No, I mean the movies actually follow the comics that were written in the film's universe and NOT the original multiverse. In GI Joe, they brought back Storm Shadow despite his death in the first movie in the comic book continuation of the story and then the 2nd movie had to conform to it.
Quote from: marrerom on May 01, 2016, 05:38:23 AM
And your comment on NDA's leads me to believe that there are some big plans in motion regarding the continuity of the franchise...
Personally, I think there has been enough big changes to the continuity of the franchise. The only thing I can hope for, and I have some hope for it, is that Alien 5 is set in an AU and it change the way we look at canon.
If there were big plans and I was aware of these big plans - of course I wouldn't be able to talk about them. :)
(No, I'm not aware of any big plans.)
Just got done reading through the WY Report.
Overall I'm... kinda disappointed.
Like it's got some neat tidbits here and there, but they're few and far between, with too much emphasis on (very) pretty pictures and not enough emphasis on actual meaningful content that expands or enhances on the movies.
There's a ton (a TON) of missed opportunities in this book, from the way info is presented, to what is/isn't said, to opportunities for speculation or theorizing. It's kind of a shame because the book starts out REALLY strong, and even the Prometheus chapter is cool and has a lot of neat ideas, but then it starts to nosedive in the 'Alien' chapter, goes right into the ground in the 'Aliens' chapter, and really never recovers. Even the "practical applications of Xenomorph science" bit, which is literally a blank slate for cool and interesting ideas, starts out strong and then ends up being a wet fart.
Did we really need an entire page devoted to a verbatim transcript of Apone talking in the hive, telling everyone to unload their ammo? I've seen the movie. Why not replace that with something we haven't seen/read before, like a transcript of Ripley's report that none of the Marines read, or a transcript of a mess hall conversation that the audience doesn't hear, or a transcript of Bishop's observations on the facehuggers in the medlab while the Marines are venturing to rescue the colonists?
Did we really need a full two-page cutaway of the Dropship, when it was done better and in more detail in the USCM Tech Manual? I'd have rather seen a cutaway of the Auriga, or a cutaway of the Betty or Prometheus, something we haven't seen before.
On that topic, did we need a two page drawing of the Sulaco? The USCM Tech Manual handled that in much, much greater detail. Shit, if you're going to devote two pages to it, at least make it an interesting cutaway or something. The collector's edition of Colonial Marines came with a more visually interesting diagram of the Sulaco than the WY report did.
As cool as the artwork is, did we really need nearly three full pages of paintings of the Dog Alien from Alien3? Why not replace one of those with something we haven't seen before, like a blueprint of the Fiorina 161 facility?
And speaking of the Alien3 section, I really wish they'd gone into a little more detail on the prisoners (especially since it only lists 17 of the 22). There's a ton of unused space on those pages.
It's a really recurring problem with the book - nearly every page has a ton of unused space that's just filled up with images from the movies or whatever. It's really a case of style over substance: the book is this big hard-bound tome that feels really substantial, but the pages are all unnecessarily thick paper stock, and the content itself is sparse or repetitive of things we've seen in the movies. With the $40 price tag, it feels like I'm paying for the binding rather than the content. Hell, the USCM Tech Manual's last chapter crams more interesting insight on Alien biology and applications into like 15 pages than the entire WY Report does in the whole book, and the Tech Manual is half the price.
I'm just trying to figure out who the intended audience for this book really is. It's regurgitating a ton of content straight from the movies (often verbatim) without really expanding on any of it (aside from the Prometheus section, as mentioned), which tells me it's not aimed at die-hard fans of the movie because those sorts of people will already know everything the book is presenting them. But at the same time it's a $40 hardcover book, which makes it a really hard sell for casual fans looking to learn more (especially when the superior USCM Tech Manual is $20).
I'm really, really glad I didn't pull the trigger on the Sideshow special edition version of this book for several hundred dollars.
Christ, what a missed opportunity.
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 01, 2016, 05:52:33 AM
Just got done reading through the WY Report.
Overall I'm... kinda disappointed.
Ouch! And you're a really big fan, probably a bigger one than me!
It's cool. (The collectors edition is a total a joke :P ) The regular book is a nice alien fan collector's piece. That's about all it did for me.
In regards to the prisoners, you'll note the heading says 'Notable staff and inmates' - emphasis on the notable.
The reason there were big pictures of the Sulaco and dropship and big spreads of weapons - and indeed a large section of the book is given over to Prometheus, Alien and Aliens - is they're the most popular films, that even casual fans might be drawn to.
It's not supposed to replace something like the great slabs of text in the CMTM, which wouldn't attract the casual fan. It's more a coffee table book and a completely different beast.
Yeah I was really looking forward to the book, and the USCM Tech Manual is pretty much the gold standard of "in universe tie-in books" for any franchise ever. It's just chock full of content from cover to cover, and the level of detail is mind-blowing. I got Lance Henriksen to sign my copy on the page about Artificial Persons (he wrote "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid") and he couldn't stop saying "Holy shit, is this a real book? This is real. This is a real book" as he paged through it.
And the Tech Manual absolutely deserves a reaction like that.
The WY Report was an amazing opportunity for something similar, but even broader in scope (covering 5 movies instead of 1) and from a different perspective. Tons of opportunities for clever corporate double-speak, expansion on ideas presented in the movies, creative ways of presenting information (or not presenting information, if the book had chosen to be strict in what the Company did or didn't know), all kinds of stuff.
There's a ton of information presented that, if the book were handled "realistically" as an in-universe document, the Company shouldn't know, or at least the book doesn't really go into detail about how it knows what it knows. Why not include a bit about a "debriefing" of the Bishop android after the Company salvages him on Fury 161? That could have been cool as heck.
The book flat-out says WY salvaged the Auriga's AI, but then doesn't have any sort of transcripts of that AI saying or doing anything. Seeing Father's reactions to the chaos happening onboard the ship could have been really cool.
Just the way things are presented is really inconsistent. Even 'Star Beast', allegedly an excerpt from a larger book, isn't presented as an excerpt. Like, the 8 pages straight up summarize the entirety of 'Alien3', while providing no insight into any of the characters or the events going on. If that's the excerpt, and it covers literally the entire movie, how long was the whole book? Is the excerpt just the introduction, and then the rest of 'Star Beast' is reiterating the introduction in greater detail? It's not made clear.
And then the Alien3 chapter has the gall to say, "not much useful information was gained from the Fury 161 incident", while having entire pages devoted to repetitive artwork, and the Bishop salvage getting a one-line mention. Like, seriously?
Or the Resurrection chapter being a nearly barren wasteland of information (other than half-disguised snark at how inept the USM is), and then including multiple references to information WY is apparently "going to get" in the near future after they get more data from the USM. That felt like the biggest cop-out ever, that's the kind of stuff you put in a book like this if there's a new movie on the horizon and you don't want to reveal spoilers or have your book be contradicted. Like, it made sense in the Prometheus chapter when dealing with David and Shaw, but not with the Resurrection chapter, where there are no new movies on the horizon that the book could spoil. It felt like a lazy excuse to not include more content, but then rub it in the reader's face that "there totally is more content forthcoming once we get those files from the USM!".
Even the "Alien applications" chapter is a swing and a miss, when 80% of the "applications" are literally "ways to combat more xenomorphs" (and a couple of them don't make sense). Using Alien biology to fight Aliens really isn't expanding human knowledge or practical applications for everyday life.
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2016, 06:05:45 AM
In regards to the prisoners, you'll note the heading says 'Notable staff and inmates' - emphasis on the notable.
The reason there were big pictures of the Sulaco and dropship and big spreads of weapons - and indeed a large section of the book is given over to Prometheus, Alien and Aliens - is they're the most popular films, that even casual fans might be drawn to.
It's not supposed to replace something like the great slabs of text in the CMTM, which wouldn't attract the casual fan. It's more a coffee table book and a completely different beast.
Sure it says "notable", but with the available space on the pages, why not include all 22 prisoners? For as "notable" as they're supposed to be, the ones that do get listed don't get enough information about them to show why they're notable and the other 5 aren't. One of them doesn't even warrant a photo for some reason.
I was ecstatic when I got to those pages because I figured it would finally let me to faces to names for all the prisoners, because even I have trouble remembering who they all are or what they look like. Instead once I realized it didn't list everybody, I was left saying, "Wait, what the f**k?"
I get that Alien and Aliens draw the biggest crowds, but even those sections of the book were just regurgitations of the movie without anything interesting to offer. There's ways to appeal to both hardcore fans and casual fans, because the Tech Manual does it. It's got pretty (and amazingly detailed) pictures about all your favorite weapons and gear and vehicles from the movie, but expands on the movie in ways that are comprehensible to casual fans who have seen the movie and want to know more, and then also has lots of in-depth crazy shit to appeal to the hardcore crowd.
I'm just disappointed because even if it wasn't "intended" to be a companion piece to the CMTM, it absolutely could have been. It just feels like a massively missed opportunity.
QuoteOne of them doesn't even warrant a photo for some reason.
Chalk that up to the faceless prisoners, being played by stuntmen. Same with Ed, Lawrence, Christopher, Martin and Janni. The film doesn't even know what it did with Vincent - seeing as he's never present after the explosion, yet is the first prisoner being chowed when Kevin finds him and the bait and chase sequence starts. Of all the aforementioned characters, I think the only one identifiable is Martin.
QuoteWhy not include a bit about a "debriefing" of the Bishop android after the Company salvages him on Fury 161?
A Bishop AP was present at LV-426 and Fiorina 161 in 2179, giving us some of the most valuable data we have concerning Xenomorph XX121. page 36.
Any "bebriefing" is distilled into the content.
QuoteOr the Resurrection chapter being a nearly barren wasteland of information (other than half-disguised snark at how inept the USM is), and then including multiple references to information WY is apparently "going to get" in the near future after they get more data from the USM.
I liked the snark - hardly half-disguised, it's right out on front street. Same as the criticism of the actions of Prometheus crew. Does this version have Gediman's haiku? That was inspired.
As much as I dig the CMTM, it's for a very narrow audience about a narrow subject, so it's not a very fair comparison. Maybe a 'History of United Systems Military' would be comparable. This is for a wider audience and therefore doesn't have the same level of detail. I'm not sure anything out there has the same level of detail as the CMTM.
Personally I find the illustrations in WYR to be streets ahead.
QuoteChalk that up to the faceless prisoners, being played by stuntmen. Same with Ed, Lawrence, Christopher, Martin and Janni. The film doesn't even know what it did with Vincent - seeing as he's never present after the explosion, yet is the first prisoner being chowed when Kevin finds him and the bait and chase sequence starts. Of all the aforementioned characters, I think the only one identifiable is Martin.
That's what I'm getting at, if the page real estate is there (and it is) and it's already listing people without a picture, then it might as well list everybody for completion's sake.
QuoteA Bishop AP was present at LV-426 and Fiorina 161 in 2179, giving us some of the most valuable data we have concerning Xenomorph XX121. page 36.
Any "bebriefing" is distilled into the content.
I meant more of an actual transcript of the debriefing. Maybe have Bishop reacting to Ripley's death, maybe he has thoughts on the Alien and for what purposes his knowledge would be used (whether he likes it or not).
QuoteI liked the snark - hardly half-disguised, it's right out on front street. Same as the criticism of the actions of Prometheus crew. Does this version have Gediman's haiku? That was inspired.
I thought the snark about the USM was entertaining, but it was just at the expense of actual interesting content in my opinion.
I definitely agree with the criticisms of the Prometheus crew, and it helped really point out what the audience had been saying all along: "yeah, these people are kinda dumb".
And yeah, the haiku line was present (and hilarious).
Like don't get me wrong, there's little flashes of brilliance (Michael Bishop having cybernetic enhancements) but then there's just a ton of stuff that's either inconsistent in tone, or feels really superfluous. Like the book starts out by saying "Order 937 is cool and good, crew expendable is an acceptable thing" but then by the Alien3 chapter it insists that the Patna was dispatched to Fury 161 to rescue the prisoners and Ripley, and that Ripley's survival post-operation was of the utmost concern. There's a pretty huge disconnect there.
Or when it has big multi-page spreads about the Pulse Rifle and USCM armor and talks about how they're the preferred Alien-killing weapons and equipment and how awesome and rad they are, completely forgetting that this book is supposed to be written two centuries after 'Aliens'. It felt like really blatant fan pandering, and it's as if the book didn't want to fully commit to its "in universe report" premise.
QuoteAs much as I dig the CMTM, it's for a very narrow audience about a narrow subject, so it's not a very fair comparison. Maybe a 'History of United Systems Military' would be comparable. This is for a wider audience and therefore doesn't have the same level of detail. I'm not sure anything out there has the same level of detail as the CMTM.
That's fair, but I'd still absolutely love to see a "Weyland-Yutani Report: Special Security Clearance Edition" that went into CMTM levels of detail. Shit, I'd love to contribute to a project like that. Maybe a project like that could be viable if Alien: Covenant is a success.
As for other stuff with comparable levels of detail to the CMTM, I'd say some of the Star Wars "essential guides" come close, especially the Essential Atlas and the Essential Chronology.
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2016, 06:05:45 AMIt's more a coffee table book and a completely different beast.
SM is Ridley Scott. Finally we know.
Sprung.
I KNEW IT
I was hesitating whether to get it due to the mixed reviews, but today I finally gave in. Im in the beginning of the book so far, but I can certainly say I dont regret it. Terrifically designed, and Locusta's images rock
I'll def be getting it eventually. Its just too cool not to have. :)
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 01, 2016, 05:52:33 AM
I'm really, really glad I didn't pull the trigger on the Sideshow special edition version of this book for several hundred dollars.
Christ, what a missed opportunity.
Thanks. You just saved me $40.
You should get the standard edition mate.
This book is pretty much what Star Wars gets with their visual guides, its done in that veinband since we never had anything like it for the Alienbsaga, I think its realy great. Im very happy i got it
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 16, 2016, 06:39:48 PM
You should get the standard edition mate.
This is the one I was looking at:
http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Weyland-Yutani-Stephani-Danelle-Perry/dp/160887866X
Yeah, that's the one.
Has it been rigorously fact-checked?
There's an odd error or two that slipped through but no more than usual for this kind of project. SM consulted on it too which I think would be a plus for yourself. It's a good book. Very nice piece.
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 16, 2016, 07:36:10 PM
Has it been rigorously fact-checked?
For the most part, although there aren't a whole lot of facts for the book to mess up since a lot of the content is quoted near-verbatim from the movies.
One of the details I kinda wish had been a bit more vague was whether or not the Alien3 creature came from a dog or an ox. Like it starts out all vague and I thought that was awesome, but then by the time you get to Star Beast, you've got Morse specifically saying it was a dog, and exclusively referencing content from the theatrical cut of the movie. I think it would have been a lot more interesting to use Morse as an unreliable narrator and really play around with the notion that there are two versions of the movie, with mutually exclusive content. "Reports are inconclusive if the Alien gestated in a dog or an ox...", "Reports are inconclusive on the fate of Golic...", etc.
Edit-- one other thing while it's on my mind, I watched the youtube video of the artist drawing the APC cutaway (both the video and the artwork are super-cool) and in the making-of video, he references some schematic artwork showing things like cutaways of the tires and the functioning of the transaxle. I don't remember those schematics being in the USCM Tech Manual (although it's been a while since I paged through it), so where are they from?
Original research done predominantly by Graham Langridge and John.
Is it published anywhere (online or otherwise) for others to read?
No.
Well that's unfortunate.
Does it explain how the egg got on the Sulaco?
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 16, 2016, 10:26:21 PM
Does it explain how the egg got on the Sulaco?
I don't believe it does, but I'll double-check when I get home.
The Alien 3 Blu-ray menus do explain it through pictures, though. :P
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 16, 2016, 10:26:21 PM
Does it explain how the egg got on the Sulaco?
"It was with [them] all the way."
Quote from: SM on May 16, 2016, 10:29:52 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 16, 2016, 10:26:21 PM
Does it explain how the egg got on the Sulaco?
"It was with [them] all the way."
So nothing new or unambiguous.
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 16, 2016, 10:28:16 PM
The Alien 3 Blu-ray menus do explain it through pictures, though. :P
Is that canon?
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 16, 2016, 10:35:49 PM
Is that canon?
If you want it to be. I'm personally okay with the bluray menu stuff, at least.
My comment was mostly tongue-in-cheek though, hence the :P
QuoteSo nothing new or unambiguous.
No. It provides a couple of theories, but there is a 'lack of recorded evidence'.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 16, 2016, 07:37:27 PMSM consulted on it too which I think would be a plus for yourself.
I thought he was dead.
Yeah, I get that a lot.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsae.tweek.us%2Fmedia%2Femoticons%2Femot-golfclap.gif&hash=0823d6d0ecbe022eb5e0735d27b80a44000dac14)
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 16, 2016, 10:35:49 PMIs that canon?
From memory it says it's in the dropship undercarriage, but the idea Ripley wouldn't have checked there is pretty asinine. You'd at least have a quick look to be sure.
Quote from: SM on May 16, 2016, 11:12:12 PM
Yeah, I get that a lot.
I ordered your book. I expect rock-solid facts.
My standard edition arrived today. Pleased to see they corrected to goof about Vriess being dead when he isn't!
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 17, 2016, 09:02:42 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 16, 2016, 10:35:49 PMIs that canon?
From memory it says it's in the dropship undercarriage, but the idea Ripley wouldn't have checked there is pretty asinine. You'd at least have a quick look to be sure.
I was pretty okay with it. Ripley just fought the Queen using industrial equipment and has a child, damaged synthetic, and wounded soldier under her ward, and the Queen is gone. She's had a long day, I'm pretty okay with her not scouring the ship for mystery eggs that may or may not exist.
One Alien's already stowed away in there. It doesn't fly with me at all that she'd go to bed without checking it out.
I'm not expecting her to take the whole dropship apart searching, but the idea it would be right there and she never even had a look is ridiculous. If she's worried about Hicks being wounded she could just put into cryo before she investigates herself.
Eh, I guess I'm just okay with it. I think it's more of the bluray menu making the best of a poorly written situation.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 17, 2016, 02:58:55 PM
My standard edition arrived today. Pleased to see they corrected to goof about Vriess being dead when he isn't!
Bummer. Now I have to go back only
wishing Vriess was dead.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 17, 2016, 03:28:58 PM
One Alien's already stowed away in there. It doesn't fly with me at all that she'd go to bed without checking it out.
I'm not expecting her to take the whole dropship apart searching, but the idea it would be right there and she never even had a look is ridiculous. If she's worried about Hicks being wounded she could just put into cryo before she investigates herself.
Ooze theory. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg1861003#msg1861003)
I think it would be interesting if Bishop put the egg there.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on May 17, 2016, 04:01:18 PM
I think it would be interesting if Bishop put the egg there.
That theory has been around for a while, it just begs the question of why would he do it?
Bishop had no opportunity.
I guess only the set designer and perhaps adi, who placed the egg know where the egg is suppose to be located
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 17, 2016, 04:12:15 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on May 17, 2016, 04:01:18 PM
I think it would be interesting if Bishop put the egg there.
That theory has been around for a while, it just begs the question of why would he do it?
"Mr. Burke gave instructions that they were to be kept alive for return to the company labs. He was very specific about it."
"Bishop, I want these specimens destroyed as soon as you're finished with them. Is that clear?"
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 17, 2016, 05:22:08 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 17, 2016, 04:15:07 PM
Bishop had no opportunity.
Well there's that, too. :P
That's not exactly true. Bishop spent a lot of time alone from the moment when he started crawling through the tube-tunnel until he had the second drop ship. It is possible he went down and picked up a couple of eggs from the egg chamber, and equally possible that the Aliens would have just ignored him as he did so since he is an android. He could have stashed the eggs on the dropship at that time and went to get Ripley and Hicks. I wrote a whole detailed post on how that could work to allow Alien 3 and Blomkamp's film to co-exist. I think I will start a separate thread on that topic.
Quote from: SM on May 17, 2016, 09:57:05 PM
"Bishop, I want these specimens destroyed as soon as you're finished with them. Is that clear?"
If you were an android and you had conflicting instructions like that, what would you do?
In this instance it doesn't matter. If Bishop refused Ripley or any of the marines would've destroyed them.
I think a continuation of the reasoning I just presented would give more depth to Bishop, while keeping him in that delicious grey area that he spent the entire film in. He might have ultimately decided that he needs to bring the eggs back so they can be studied and understood. This would not be in conflict with his prime directive, because he may rationalize that he is saving humanity by informing them about the Aliens.
Bishop was never grey. We only see him that way through Ripley's tainted lens.
Quote from: SM on May 17, 2016, 10:01:50 PM
In this instance it doesn't matter. If Bishop refused Ripley or any of the marines would've destroyed them.
Hence why he would have brought the egg on board surreptitiously.
Have you read my post (somewhere in another thread), where I rationalize how Bishop doing this could lead to Alien 3 and Blomkamp's film co-existing?
QuoteIf you were an android and you had conflicting instructions like that, what would you do?
I guess it would depend on if he has Company-specific programming (like Ash did). He's built by Weyland Yutani, but he's ostensibly USCM property. Would W-Y insert covert subroutines into his programming? We don't know.
There's also the Three Laws of Robotics - if Bishop knows how dangerous the Aliens are, would he knowingly endanger the characters by bringing an Alien onboard?
Quote from: SM on May 17, 2016, 10:05:20 PM
Bishop was never grey. We only see him that way through Ripley's tainted lens.
Exactly this. Bishop is shown to be trustworthy all the way through the movie, it's only because of Ripley's bad experience with Ash that she's wary of him until he proves himself to her.
Quote from: SM on May 17, 2016, 10:05:20 PM
Bishop was never grey. We only see him that way through Ripley's tainted lens.
He was never grey in actuality as far as we know, but he was presented that way to us through the entire film right up until he shows up at the moment where he saves Ripley and Newt. It gave a certain flavour to the character throughout most of the film. Is he good, or bad?
What I am proposing would leave him in that grey area. I mean in the far future, Ripley and Hicks could even pay a visit to Fiorina 161 and plug him back in to find out the truth.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on May 17, 2016, 10:06:44 PM
Quote from: SM on May 17, 2016, 10:01:50 PM
In this instance it doesn't matter. If Bishop refused Ripley or any of the marines would've destroyed them.
Hence why he would have brought the egg on board surreptitiously.
Have you read my post (somewhere in another thread), where I rationalize how Bishop doing this could lead to Alien 3 and Blomkamp's film co-existing?
No.
And Bishop would be breaking his first law by (somehow) bringing an egg on board. The very fact he stuck around for Ripley tells us his first law is intact.
If he was bringing the huggers back in stasis, he could make an argument he wasn't breaking the first law since they didn't pose an immediate threat.
QuoteHe was never grey in actuality as far as we know, but he was presented that way to us through the entire film right up until he shows up at the moment where he saves Ripley and Newt. It gave a certain flavour to the character throughout most of the film. Is he good, or bad?
He's 'good'. He never actually does anything to arouse suspicion. When Ripley asks him to destroy the specimens, he doesn't make any attempt to hide Burke's instructions. On Fiorina, he freely gives up information that would embarrass the Company (he's ECA so has no loyalty to the Company anyway). He's never 'grey'. The whole aspect of the film is a red herring, because we had a an evil robot in the first film
Personally I think making him objectively grey (as in, not just in Ripley's head) drastically undermines his character and makes him less interesting. If I want a morally grey android, I'll re-watch 'Prometheus'.
SM, I posted this on April 29 in the Topic: "ALIEN DAY: Sigourney Weaver Talks A5 at Aliens Special Event" thread. I would be really curious about your opinion SM, as the following fan-fiction actually allows for Blomkamp's Alin film and Alien 3 to co-exist...
On principle I agree that Alien 3 and Alien: R should just be ignored, but if they really had to mention it, I would consider the off-handed joke above, which could be a reference to any other jokes Ripley may have had in cryo-sleep, to be the maximum extent of what is needed. I would prefer if they would just let it go and not mention anything.
But...
I think I have a solution for everything. I have taken into account mostly what Cainsson said here, though keeping in mind what the skeptical Mr. Huda had said. To make the story make sense, there would have to be motivation for the cloning. I think I figured it out in a way that is neither convoluted, nor requires a retcon, and can in fact sync everything up nicely. So here goes, in point form.
-Firstly, we have to accept the premise that Bishop is operating under conflicting directives. Firstly, he is unable to harm a human being, but secondly, he has a specific request to secure an return an alien to company labs. But would Bishop consider a clone to be a human? Do you see where I am going with this?
-So how did the eggs get on the Sulaco? Simply, when Bishop was sent into the tunnels to get the second Dropship from the Sulaco, he went and secured 3 eggs from the egg chamber before the second dropship arrived. At this time he knew that there were only 3 survivors. He packed them neatly on the Dropship for return to company labs. At no time did he intend any malice towards any of the humans though, because since he was a scientific android sent on a scientific mission, he had a lab on board the Sulaco where he could store and secure such organisms.
-Once everyone is sleeping, Bishop wakes up and gets to work. But he is a bit of a spaz now that he is damaged. During the weeks of sleep that everyone is under, he clones Ripley, Newt and Hicks for the purpose of incubation. This does not conflict with his prime directive, because they are not humans. He could just deliver the eggs whole to the company labs, but he is concerned that they may hatch and screw things up for everyone, so he figures the best bet is to have the eggs get fertilized inside the clones, so that they can be frozen for further study once he arrives back at company labs.
-He successfully impregnates CloneRipley, and while he is delivering the second egg, being a spaz, he falls over, it hatches, and just goes for Clone Hicks on its own but it cracks the glass, hurts itself, and the blood starts the electrical fire that destroys the ship. This also explains why we have the burn marks inside the capsule from the acid. The clones are jettisoned along with Bishop to Fury 161, along with data on the cloning methods used. Perhaps Bishop was funneling DNA directly from the originals and that is how memories got included? I know this bit is a stretch. So we have a dead facehugger that causes burn marks in the capsule, an impregnated Ripley Clone, Clones of Newt and Hicks, Bishop plus 1 unopened egg in the capsule, + the data. When Bishop is reactivated in Alien 3, he sees that his Ripley clone is conscious and has all her memories and now that makes him guilty of violating his prime code. So he asks to be deactivated. The other egg hatches and impregnates the dog or ox. Hicks and Newt clones never once had an y consciousness.
-In Alien Resurrection, the marines are still trying to use Bishops original data for cloning purposes. In fact the previous point explains exactly why they went the cloning route, and how Ripley 8 was able to have memories. They never bothered to clone Hicks and Newt because they had no Alien DNA associated with them.
-And that leaves the 3 remaining survivors from Aliens who are also jettisoned in their own EEV, but without Bishop. That will deserve an explanation. Then they are floating out there until Alien 5. They are picked up eventually after they age about 30 years in stasis. Ultimately, the theme of Alien 5 could be about them learning what happened. Perhaps they could even end up frozen again after Alien 5 so that Ripley meets Ripley 8 eventually..
:laugh:
I thought you said it wasn't convoluted?
I'd still like to know when Bishop had an opportunity to make a detour to the bowels of the AP despite Cameron repeatedly cutting back to him either crawling through the tube or working at the uplink tower.
In all these years, none of the "Bishop did it" theorists have ever been able to adequately explain this.
LOL, it did get convoluted towards the end, but in terms of reasons for why we would have Alien 3 and Resurrection remain in the series, it is the only thing I can think of that is a lesser evil, then having to do away with two awesome Alien films. If you remember, I was actually the guy who started the FB page "Aliens Continuity Change" which has the premise of retconning films 3 and 4. I never entertained the idea of allowing 3 an 4 to exist along with an alternate Ripley Hicks tale. This approach would allow for that. Do you really think it is more convoluted than the premise of Resurrection?
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 18, 2016, 12:23:06 AM
I'd still like to know when Bishop had an opportunity to make a detour to the bowels of the AP despite Cameron repeatedly cutting back to him either crawling through the tube or working at the uplink tower.
In all these years, none of the "Bishop did it" theorists have ever been able to adequately explain this.
Perhaps he found some Easter Eggs along the way that were deposited by playful Aliens? I know its a stretch, but plan B is to retcon A3 and A4.
Resurrection isn't especially convoluted. It just builds on what's already there and takes it a new direction
I would venture to say that cloning a dead character and bringing her back along with an alien, and her memories intact are no more or less convoluted than what I proposed. Anyway, all the hard work you put in to make that fantastic WY volume come to reality would remain a canonical effort. I'm not saying my solution is perfect, but maybe someone can riff off that. Some of what I came up with actually comes from Cainsson on this forum.. As I said, I think the idea of making Blomkamp's film work with A3 and AR work together merits its own thread, so off I go to create one...
Cloning a dead character had a point to the plot. It was the only way they could get an Alien.
If WYR gets turned into something non-canonical, or partially non-canonical - it's neither here nor there. It's not my book and I doubt Danelle is especially bothered.
I think the volume is a treasure which ever way the story turns. If the films get retconned, then it will become a compendium to the classic series, and hopefully we will have an updated, revised volume. If it stays canon, then we will have hopefully an expanded version that will include Covenant and whatever else comes..
It's a cool book whether the material gets uncanonised or not.
Quote from: SM on May 18, 2016, 03:03:05 AM
It's a cool book whether the material gets uncanonised or not.
Absolutely. It's a very cool book, and fans can only be grateful that it got done. I'm glad especially that it got done before the retcon, otherwise we might not have all that awesome Alien 3 and Resurrection material in it. This way, even if we end up with 2 different volumes covering different timelines, we will still have all the material covered.
Quote from: SM on May 18, 2016, 02:45:42 AM
Cloning a dead character had a point to the plot. It was the only way they could get an Alien.
It was the only way they could get Ripley back into the plot, you mean. There were a million ways they could have had an Alien story without Ripley.
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 18, 2016, 05:38:41 AM
Quote from: SM on May 18, 2016, 02:45:42 AM
Cloning a dead character had a point to the plot. It was the only way they could get an Alien.
It was the only way they could get Ripley back into the plot, you mean. There were a million ways they could have had an Alien story without Ripley.
Indeed. The general premise of Prometheus would have made a decent sequel to Alien 3. We could have had a Ripley-less crew find the alien homeworld and watch the chaos ensue.
Okay, my hardcover copy of the SMTM arrived today. Is the WY logo on the front supposed to have a slightly worn, distressed look to it?
Kinda sorta? The cover smudges kinda easily, but it's easy to clean up.
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 18, 2016, 12:45:50 PMIs the WY logo on the front supposed to have a slightly worn, distressed look to it?
Yes.
I got a notification saying my standard edition had been shipping. So UK folk, looks like we're getting it now!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 20, 2016, 07:11:44 AM
I got a notification saying my standard edition had been shipping. So UK folk, looks like we're getting it now!
Wait, didn't you have the deluxe edition already? Why bother buying the standard edition?
Also speaking of the deluxe edition, what does Jones' vet report say? No seriously, I think it's a hoot that it would include something like that and I want to know what it says.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 20, 2016, 07:11:44 AMI got a notification saying my standard edition had been shipping. So UK folk, looks like we're getting it now!
Who did you order from? I got my copy last week.
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 20, 2016, 08:07:04 AM
Wait, didn't you have the deluxe edition already? Why bother buying the standard edition?
The deluxe doesn't fit on my shelf unfortunately. It's in its box on top of my wardrobe waiting for a proper place to display it. I brought another one to keep on the shelf and read with ease.
QuoteAlso speaking of the deluxe edition, what does Jones' vet report say? No seriously, I think it's a hoot that it would include something like that and I want to know what it says.
If I remember I'll try and take a picture.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 20, 2016, 08:51:10 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 20, 2016, 07:11:44 AMI got a notification saying my standard edition had been shipping. So UK folk, looks like we're getting it now!
Who did you order from? I got my copy last week.
Amazon. You?
Book Depository.
I was wrong actually, I think it was Monday this week it arrived.
Ah, fair enough! I guess Amazon is a bit slow on this one.
Well I think today is the official UK release date so Book Depository obviously just jumped the gun a bit.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 19, 2016, 12:12:14 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 18, 2016, 12:45:50 PMIs the WY logo on the front supposed to have a slightly worn, distressed look to it?
Yes.
Just in case, I had Amazon replace it. The new one had the same marks on the logo so I guess it's intentional. Maybe it's supposed to look like a book that's been heavily used.
When is SM's book-signing tour?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 20, 2016, 09:59:18 AM
Well I think today is the official UK release date so Book Depository obviously just jumped the gun a bit.
Lee Harvey Oswald over here.
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 16, 2016, 09:04:05 PM
Is [the APC blueprints] published anywhere (online or otherwise) for others to read?
Quote from: SM on May 16, 2016, 09:56:30 PM
No.
Turns out that's true, from a certain point of view:
http://www.hydride-ion.com/2014/03/m577-armored-personnel-carrier-apc.html
I want to buy it and support the artist, but 24"x36" is kinda huge and I don't even know where I'd put it. Something like the smaller prints for the Nostromo and Sulaco that came with The Alien Vault and Aliens: Colonial Marines are a bit more appealing to me.
Yeah, I'm with Corp. Hicks on this one, I ordered it from Amazon and they pretty much sucked ass through the whole order process. Of course, between me preordering the book and it actually being shipped the price has dropped about £15, so I've 'saved' some money.
Apparently, it's in the process of being prepared for dispatch.
Got it yesterday. A real gem. Absolutely like it. About the differences between the Alien in the first two movies, i like that it isn't explained away so much as an age difference but more like it could be different castes.
Maybe Kane's son is an gatherer which starts an hive by collecting hosts for creating an queen facehugger bearing egg and an egg for an warrior to protect the queen, as it doesn't live long enough to do it himself. Maybe gatherers are the only aliens capable of egg morphing.
Happy to hear you liked it. :)
Mine arrived Wednesday 18th from Book Depository.
Quote from: SM on May 22, 2016, 10:06:43 PM
Happy to hear you liked it. :)
Thank you. It's really great [emoji4]
Quote from: SM on May 22, 2016, 10:06:43 PM
Happy to hear you liked it. :)
I have it as well. It's bigger than I expected so it will take me a while to go through it all. I like what I see so far though.
I'm so used to reading books on a Kindle and comic books on my PC that an actual hardcover book feels strange to me.
Speaking of which, will there be a Kindle edition?
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 23, 2016, 10:00:56 PM
Quote from: SM on May 22, 2016, 10:06:43 PM
Happy to hear you liked it. :)
I have it as well. It's bigger than I expected so it will take me a while to go through it all. I like what I see so far though.
I'm so used to reading books on a Kindle and comic books on my PC that an actual hardcover book feels strange to me.
Speaking of which, will there be a Kindle edition?
I've seen some amazon reviewers mention that they were reviewing an ebook version of some kind.
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 23, 2016, 10:00:56 PM
I'm so used to reading books on a Kindle and comic books on my PC that an actual hardcover book feels strange to me.
That makes me a little sad. I dread the day that happens to me.
I as well.
signing under it too
I don't have much digital content in comics or books, I only go digital when I can't find the real thing.
I like that this book restored the original size of LV-426. However, the analysis of its mineral content makes me wonder what makes it worth mining.
SM?
Nothing terribly valuable or they wouldn't be waiting decades to start mining it. However they get an exclusive monopoly when mining is ready to begin.
Which brings me back to the question of why they would bother. Our own solar system has more than enough aluminum and magnesium. Jesus, at least throw me a bone and tell me it's rich in Helium-3 (http://io9.gizmodo.com/5908499/could-helium-3-really-solve-earths-energy-problems). I beseech thee.
Either way, that still wouldn't explain the strong gravity for such a small rock which leaves me with the assumption that it has some super dense mineral ore that can't be found elsewhere closer to Earth.
Methane is very helpful in the terraforming process and LV-426 has lots, making it a prime candidate.
Habitable real estate explains the planet's value to the ECA, but not why the company would co-finance it for minerals that could be more easily obtained elsewhere.
Of course, it's possible that the company had the same question that I do: what exotic substance could such a tiny planet contain that would give it such a strong gravitational pull? Maybe they don't know any better than you or I do and that's why they wanted to secure the mineral rights.
That's the most non-committal explanation I can think of that both addresses the point and evades a definitive answer.
Maybe Hadley isn't a terribly big investment in the grand scheme of things.
Granted, but the company's interest indicates that whatever minerals it contains are potentially valuable enough to warrant their investment.
As I suggested before: maybe the anomalous gravity was enough to get their attention and they simply took a minor gamble by co-financing the colony.
Possibly. But they're investing in colonies all over the place, and maybe the anomalous gravity isn't really that anomalous.
Quote from: SM on Jul 03, 2016, 09:06:22 PM
Maybe Hadley isn't a terribly big investment in the grand scheme of things.
I agree. It being described as a "shake n' bake" implies that it's easily manufactured, probably cheap and easy to replicate.
Quote from: SM on Jul 03, 2016, 09:06:22 PM
Maybe Hadley isn't a terribly big investment in the grand scheme of things.
There's ample evidence to support this. After operating for 20 years, the population of the Hadley's Hope colony should be in the 1000's. If it only takes 17 days to get there, then ship after ship of colonists should be arriving to make the world a habitable place if Weyland Yutani were committed to it as a major concern.
One settlement is all that's there, supporting less than 200 people during a 2 decade time span. So, no. WY's investment in the colony is minimal at best.
-Windebieste.
It's a little more than 17 days travel, but not much more. And there's around 75 stars closer to Sol than Z2R, any number of which could have more lucrative opportunities.
Quote from: SM on Jul 03, 2016, 09:50:09 PM
Possibly. But they're investing in colonies all over the place, and maybe the anomalous gravity isn't really that anomalous.
The other colonies don't need to have anomalous gravity in order to have profit potential. LV-426 just happens to be one that does.
I'm guessing WY sets up these small colonies with minimal investment on the premise that if the colony is capable of self sustaining, they'll invest further into the Project. HH was a borderline case. Up until the time of 'ALIENS' it was a largely self sustaining entity but other than that had delivered nothing substantial in return - it waws neither a faillure nor a rewarding venture. The world itself was being successfully terraformed but had so far not yielded any resources of any financial merit. WY were unaware of the derelict and its cargo until Ripley's arrival at Gateway. The colony certainly hadn't been set up to 'rediscover' it.
So WY kept the minimal amount of investment in the colony ticking over in the hope that one day, the fully transformed world would one day deliver a justification for further investment. It had been kept ticking over with minimal interest on the company's part in its slow development until it proved to be financially viable to invest further - or not.
Get the world ready for mass colonisation first, it was probably at least another decade away from being a meteorological stable enough environment to support a larger population.
Maybe the resource WY were pouring into it was time - not money.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: windebieste on Jul 03, 2016, 10:33:57 PM
Maybe the resource WY were pouring into it was time - not money.
You're overcomplicating it. The film told us that the company invested money in the colony in the form of at least one expensive atmosphere processor.
It's a long term investment. When it's been successfully terraformed - you effectively own a planet(oid).
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 03, 2016, 10:48:36 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Jul 03, 2016, 10:33:57 PM
Maybe the resource WY were pouring into it was time - not money.
You're overcomplicating it. The film told us that the company invested money in the colony in the form of at least one expensive atmosphere processor.
You're oversimplifying it. There's nothing uncomplicated about
making another planet fit for human habitation. Money isn't the only resource needed, either.
Van Leuwen commented that it takes decades to set up. The terraforming was only partially complete when the marines arrive and Acheron is still dependent upon the AP. Wait a few more decades until the planet possesses a self sustaining atmosphere - you need an ocean and plants for that. There's no sign of such at present, apart from a lot of rain. These are all essential and need to be part of the next stage of planetary transformation.
An atmosphere processor just isn't enough to make a planet habitable. Sure, it's essential to kickstart the process, but it's only the start of a
very complicated process. It doesn't even take into account how viable the soil is for growing plants and self sustaining agriculture. That will have to be addressed, too. A giant fancy hi tech tower won't fix that. Go watch 'The Martian' and see what it takes to make soil. Now apply that principal to a planetary scale.
Like I said, there's
nothing simple about terraforming. It's a massive engineering task beyond anything we are capable of today. I think it's demonstrated well in 'AlIENS' with the partially altered world that is LV-426.
Quote from: SM on Jul 03, 2016, 10:54:52 PM
It's a long term investment. When it's been successfully terraformed - you effectively own a planet(oid).
The shareholders will be pleased!
-Windebieste.
Quote from: SM on Jul 03, 2016, 10:54:52 PM
It's a long term investment. When it's been successfully terraformed - you effectively own a planet(oid).
But why would they want to own
that planetoid? You've said yourself countless times that the company co-financed it
against mineral rights. Okay, so what minerals would make it worth their investment?
And since when does the company own it? I always figured it was US territory and governed by the ECA.
Quote from: windebieste on Jul 03, 2016, 11:47:59 PMYou're oversimplifying it. There's nothing uncomplicated about making another planet fit for human habitation. Money isn't the only resource needed, either.
From what I understand, the ECA gets the colony and the company gets the mineral rights. I never said that terraforming was simple so I don't understand why you're going on and on about that.
'Effectively'.
There has to be something there worth mining, otherwise they wouldn't bother.
I think that's as close to an agreement as we're going to get.
On a related note, was it ever established what kind of mineral ore the Nostromo was hauling all the way from Thedus?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 04, 2016, 12:27:05 AMBut why would they want to own that planetoid?
Maybe it's on or near a major trade route and will make a lucrative pit-stop once it's up and running.
With Sevastapol failing, there could be an opening or it might be a foolish venture considering that Sevestapol wasn't doing well.
I think River of Pain puts across that W-Y's interest in the colony comes from their knowledge of the Derelict's signal.
I never liked that idea to be honest. I prefer them genuinely not knowing about it by the time of Aliens.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 04, 2016, 09:45:26 AM
I think River of Pain puts across that W-Y's interest in the colony comes from their knowledge of the Derelict's signal.
Are the masterminds behind SO937 identified in these novels? Either way, they might have influenced the ECA to establish a colony there and simply hoped that the derelict would be eventually rediscovered at some point.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 04, 2016, 09:49:25 AM
I never liked that idea to be honest. I prefer them genuinely not knowing about it by the time of Aliens.
Indeed. This new EU sounds awfully contrived to me. I wish the SMTM could have avoided referencing it.
The science team was stationed at Hadley from around 2166. The colony wasn't setup with any knowledge of the Derelict.
Indeed. Just that something was there.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 05, 2016, 07:53:19 AM
Indeed. Just that something was there.
Well, as SM decreed...
Quote from: SM on Jul 04, 2016, 01:06:37 AM
There has to be something there worth mining, otherwise they wouldn't bother.
Ostensibly, that "something" was supposed to be potentially valuable mineral resources. Just to keep it believable, I'd rule out any minerals that would be more abundant and easily obtained in our own solar system (http://www.astronomysource.com/tag/rare-earth-metals-from-asteroids/).
Then again, even if they knew for certain that the derelict was somewhere in the vicinity of Z2R, it's possible that the SO937 issuers didn't know
exactly where the signal was coming from. After all, it still took Lambert some time to pinpoint the source even after the Nostromo had already arrived.
Thus, even if the company knew what star system it was in and actually made a deliberate attempt to search for it, actually
finding it would still be close to impossible without the beacon to home in on (or the grid reference that Ripley gave to Burke).
Now with the confirmation that the Bloemkamp Movie will happen in an alternate timeline, i wonder how much of the WYR will stay canon.
I have finished reading this book and have decided that I would like to catch up on all the currently canon, SM-endorsed EU comics and novels. May I have a list?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 14, 2016, 04:33:15 AM
I have finished reading this book and have decided that I would like to catch up on all the currently canon, SM-endorsed EU comics and novels. May I have a list?
Your best bet is to go pick up the Fire and Stone collected, over-sized hard-cover volume. It has everything from that series in an awesome format.
Stuff what WYR references:
Out Of The Shadows
River Of Pain
Fire & Stone comics
Alien Isolation
Stuff it doesn't reference but still counts:
Sea of Sorrows
Life & Death comics
Defiance comics
Is there a novelization of Isolation or do I have to play the game?
You could watch a Youtube walkthrough I suppose.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 14, 2016, 06:09:22 AM
Is there a novelization of Isolation or do I have to play the game?
Dark Horse released a 1-shot Alien-Isolation comic that came out for free just before the game release, if I remember correctly. It can be found on eBay easily...
It's a prequel though, not an adaptation. Damn good short though!
I still can't find it for under 40$ shipped to Canada...
QuoteStuff what WYR references:
Out Of The Shadows
River Of Pain
Fire & Stone comics
Alien Isolation
Wow so all this is officially canon now?
For the minute.
Quote from: Denton Smalls on Jul 14, 2016, 02:20:00 PM
QuoteStuff what WYR references:
Out Of The Shadows
River Of Pain
Fire & Stone comics
Alien Isolation
Wow so all this is officially canon now?
They are until SM says otherwise.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 14, 2016, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Denton Smalls on Jul 14, 2016, 02:20:00 PM
QuoteStuff what WYR references:
Out Of The Shadows
River Of Pain
Fire & Stone comics
Alien Isolation
Wow so all this is officially canon now?
They are until FOX says otherwise.
Fixed that for you.
hey I just got the WYR today and I loved the way they wrote the book from the company perspective... they writing at times reminded me of the why Starship Troopers would say "We want you!" at the end hen talking of capturing an alien and to notify them if someone if facehugged...lol
It's all part of the flavour which I absolutely loved. Very fun read.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jul 24, 2016, 05:57:08 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 14, 2016, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Denton Smalls on Jul 14, 2016, 02:20:00 PM
QuoteStuff what WYR references:
Out Of The Shadows
River Of Pain
Fire & Stone comics
Alien Isolation
Wow so all this is officially canon now?
They are until FOX says otherwise.
Fixed that for you.
I don't see the difference.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 01, 2016, 12:28:35 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jul 24, 2016, 05:57:08 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 14, 2016, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Denton Smalls on Jul 14, 2016, 02:20:00 PM
QuoteStuff what WYR references:
Out Of The Shadows
River Of Pain
Fire & Stone comics
Alien Isolation
Wow so all this is officially canon now?
They are until FOX says otherwise.
Fixed that for you.
I don't see the difference.
That sounds like a personal problem. :) And SM would be the first one to correct you on it (and I'm pretty sure he's done so in this thread, in fact).
I mean I don't see a difference since, unless I'm mistaken, SM basically relays whatever he's gleaned from Fox. That's why he can make unequivocal statements regarding the canonicity of A:CM, for example.
I was more of taking issue with your wording, it came across more as "it's canon because SM says so, because SM decides what's canon" and less "it's canon because SM says so, because SM is FOX's mouthpiece".
Especially since he kinda isn't FOX's mouthpiece, and others here can (and have, including Corporal Hicks, and even myself) relay what they've gleaned from FOX, too. But I imagine "it's canon because Corporal Hicks says so" doesn't have the same ring to it? ;)
Yeah, but Hicks is just a grunt...
You forgot to say "no offense".
Alright, we waste him; no offense!!
Sorry, couldn't resist! Lol
You're dogmeat pal!
NO!!!! He's got to go back!
They cut the power
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 11, 2016, 09:13:36 AM
Yeah, but Hicks is just a grunt...
SM is at least a lieutenant, albeit a very green one. ;)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 11, 2016, 03:35:07 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 11, 2016, 09:13:36 AM
Yeah, but Hicks is just a grunt...
SM is at least a lieutenant, albeit a very green one. ;)
Two combat drops (including this one)
I've got f**king feelings! Talking about wasting me...
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 11, 2016, 06:41:25 PM
I've got f**king feelings! Talking about wasting me...
I didn't mean it! I was just quoting the movie! Lol
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 11, 2016, 06:41:25 PM
I've got f**king feelings! Talking about wasting me...
Well, Huda really shouldn't be throwing stones. As a NCO he's also just a grunt, he's just one rank higher than you.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Aug 11, 2016, 05:17:40 PM
Two combat drops (including this one)
Don't forget the thirty-eight simulated ones!
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 11, 2016, 09:32:48 PMWell, Huda really shouldn't be throwing stones. As a NCO he's also just a grunt, he's just one rank higher than you.
One rank and many fine cigars.
Did anyone else notice that this book states LV-223's size is 1400km? :laugh:
Yes.
That made me smile.
Hey Local Trouble, how come it made you smile?
I just searched the internet and couldn't find LV-223's diameter anywhere. LV-426's is 1200km. It is referred as a planetoid in Alien.
Are they both moons than? Planetoids orbit their stars I believe.
An interesting read:
Prometheus Analysis Part IV – LV 223 & LV 426
https://skinwalker.wordpress.com/2012/08/30/prometheus-analysis-part-iv-lv-223-lv-426/
I would now like to turn my attention to one of the most important aspects of the movie, the significance of the moon, LV 223 and its relationship with LV 426 from Alien. Shaw and Holloway interpret the star map on their archaeological finds as an invitation from the engineers. Based on galactic screening, they seem to have identified a system that corresponds exactly to the configuration in the ancient pictographs. Holloway explains that the system has a sun and a planet orbiting it. The object that the engineer seems to be pointing towards in the map happens to be one of the moons of the planet, called LV 223.
Let us first observe one of the cave paintings. This one is from the Isle of Scotland, dating back to almost 35,000 years ago.
Cave Painting from Scotland – From geeksofdoom.com
As we can see, six objects form a system and the engineer is specifically pointing towards one of them. Now, based on the galactic map that we see in the briefing on Prometheus, the things that are clear are the presence of a sun, a ringed-giant planet, and a couple of moons. So, that explains four objects. What of the other two? I think one of them could be another natural satellite of the planet and perhaps, the other is a planetoid!
Alien Connection: LV 426
LV 223 provides us with the first clue in unlocking the connection between Prometheus and Alien. For instance, the main planet, of which LV 223 is one of the moons, is suspiciously similar to the planet encountered in Alien – a solitary ringed, Jovian type planet with a multiple minor objects orbiting it. Please remember once again, my attempt here is to link Alien with Prometheus. I am deliberately avoiding any references to Aliens and other films. Most importantly, there will be no connections to any of the novelizations and comic book adaptations. So, don't expect names like, Acheron or Calpamos.
Planetoid or Moon?
When Holloway describes the star map on board, he mentions that there is just one planet. Similarly, there is absolutely no mention about planets in Alien as well. In fact, in Alien, Lambert identifies the source of the signal being LV 426, a planetoid that is 1200 km in diameter. Over the years, people have referred to LV 426 as a natural satellite of the ringed planet it orbits. I am not so sure (I will come back to this theme a bit later). Planetoids are objects that orbit around their sun directly (Hence, they are not moons!). The term Minor planets has been used sometimes as well. The term planetoid is generally used for larger objects. But the most important thing to note here is that they are not planets. Asteroids are prominent members of the planetoid family.
Lets dig into the planetoid factor a bit. From a size standpoint (1200km), LV 426 is in the same league as Charon, Pluto's natural satellite and roughly 35% the size of our moon. It is also a well known fact that such a larger object would be spherical, given sufficient gravitational force. This checks out as we also learned in Alien that the gravity on LV 426 was 0.86 times that of gravity on earth. In addition, Dallas asks Lambert to determine if LV 426 has any rotation. She says it is 2 hours. It is somewhat relative to the rotational period of some asteroids in the Asteroid belt of our Solar System. Things get juicier when we look at LV 426 from the asteroid belt perspective. We all know that the asteroid belt is located between Mars and Jupiter in our solar system. The belt formed from basic elements of planets called, planetesimals that later clumped into protoplanets (which, given ideal conditions, would have formed planets). But, the gravitational pull of Jupiter was so immense that it superseded the ability of these protoplanets to assemble together to form a planet. Technically, the pull imparted these protoplanets with a lot of orbital energy.
So, my theory is that the spherical planetoid LV 426 formed from protoplanets ripped apart by the strong gravitational pull of the ringed gas giant and shares a few characteristics with some illustrious members of our asteroid family.
Coming back to my LV 426 is not a moon argument, well, we saw that its rotation period is 2 hours. Since, in majority of the cases, synchronicity is expected for planetary moons (rotational period is equivalent to orbital period due to tidal locking with the planet – moon showing the same face to an observer on the planet), 2 hours seems like a tremendous stretch.
The star system observed in Prometheus and Alien reflect reality to a certain extent due to the fact that we have identified a large number of extra solar Jovian type solitary planetary systems orbiting sun like stars over the years. It is theorized that many such planets identified could have rocky moons, which could have less inhospitable environments and LV 223 is such an example. Just yesterday, NASA's Kepler Space Lab announced that it has discovered a pair of planets orbiting a pair of suns – sort of like a real life Tatooine!
Anyway, coming back to the star map, I was wondering if it would be possible to pinpoint LV 426 on it? I have indicated my choice on the following picture. Apart from taking a theoretical liberty of assigning the orbits for the moons of the planet, there was this intriguing scene from Prometheus that motivated my choice. When Holloway zoomed in on the 3D interactive map, we could see only five objects and the object that I had noted as LV 426 was marked differently. It looked to me like a rocky object (brown colored) and seemed like it could be related to LV 426 that we saw in Alien. Well, I might be dead wrong!
Location of LV 426? Picture from geeksofdoom.com, edited.
Final Thoughts
In conclusion, LV 426 is part of the same star map that the engineers had shown humans and it is a planetoid. But, there are several broad questions that still remain.
1. What's the deal with asking us to visit an alien moon and not their home planet?
This is probably the most important question that can probably be resolved within the framework of Prometheus's entire plot.
2. What turn of events led the space jockey leave for LV 426, with the eggs no less? From where did he fly to LV 426?
3. Who activated the so called, "distress signal"?
4. Whatever happened to the creature that burst out of the engineer's chest?
Questions 2, 3, and 4 can be best explained in the context of Prometheus 2 plot and the notorious black goo, which I will discuss a bit later. But, for the moment, I would like to say something about the Derelict on LV 426. Some people have speculated that it had crashed on LV 426. I was personally not in favor of this idea. Ridley Scott himself has said that it did not crash and it was probably a forced landing. For proof, have a look at this clip, where he talks to Geoff Boucher from LA Times for the Nerdist Channel. He talks about it at 04:53 minute mark.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnAiIqWsyAo]
I assume "planetoid" in this case was just a colloquialism since it was shown to be a moon in the original movie. LV-223 was also shown to be a moon.
I smiled because the book essentially ignored the "correction" from the CMTM and then created what will inevitably turn into yet another size controversy about LV-223.
What was the correction in CMTM?
Oh ok found it:
In Alien, the film's original screenplay and its accompanying novelization, LV-426's diameter is said to be only 1,200 km. For a planetoid so small to have a surface gravity of 0.86 G, it would have to be unfeasibly dense, and its surface would also be visibly curved when standing on it (which it clearly is not in the film). The Colonial Marines Technical Manual later changed the moon's size to a more realistic 12,201 km diameter.
Now I'm confused...what are each moon's diameter? And is LV-426 12,201km....? That's huge for a moon!?
PM Xenomrph and ask. :laugh:
Come to think of it, doesn't LV-223 look significantly larger than LV-426 in this scene (assuming the other moon is indeed LV-426)?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2F34gkdc5.jpg&hash=63d60de03af7ad7498d91b6d4c38fd694728bfa3)
Also, doesn't Calpamos have a third moon as shown in Alien or is that one on the far-right supposed to be a neighboring planet orbiting the star?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F1zey4r9.jpg&hash=c89aa362c1a0f7c2bfa33f9132c6f3cff0a22507)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2Fs3knbd.jpg&hash=8943a3379eb364381f5a9c80aff057c481162a64)
SM?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 10, 2016, 02:52:55 AM
I assume "planetoid" in this case was just a colloquialism since it was shown to be a moon in the original movie. LV-223 was also shown to be a moon.
I smiled because the book essentially ignored the "correction" from the CMTM and then created what will inevitably turn into yet another size controversy about LV-223.
I brought that up several pages ago when i first posted my review.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 10, 2016, 03:10:08 AM
What was the correction in CMTM?
Oh ok found it:
In Alien, the film's original screenplay and its accompanying novelization, LV-426's diameter is said to be only 1,200 km. For a planetoid so small to have a surface gravity of 0.86 G, it would have to be unfeasibly dense, and its surface would also be visibly curved when standing on it (which it clearly is not in the film). The Colonial Marines Technical Manual later changed the moon's size to a more realistic 12,201 km diameter.
Now I'm confused...what are each moon's diameter? And is LV-426 12,201km....? That's huge for a moon!?
Calpamos is 10x the size of Jupiter, it's not outlandish that it would have earth-sized moons.
As for the size of LV-426/LV-233, it depends on if you want to side with a throwaway line of dialogue from a deleted scene (restored for the "director's cut") which may or may not have been accurate, or the visual evidence presented in the movies, well-known science facts, and basic common sense.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 11, 2016, 03:30:30 PM
Calpamos is 10x the size of Jupiter, it's not outlandish that it would have earth-sized moons.
As for the size of LV-426/LV-233, it depends on if you want to side with a throwaway line of dialogue from a deleted scene (restored for the "director's cut") which may or may not have been accurate, or the visual evidence presented in the movies, well-known science facts, and basic common sense.
While I do prefer the visual evidence, I really wish they'd hire an Astronomer or at least ask someone who knows about Astronomy if they want their movies to look more realistic. At least in the Astronomy areas.
We've never discovered any exoplanet larger than 6x the size of Jupiter (And that was a very rare find). So at 10x...it doesn't really shine as accurate.
List of largest exoplanets:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_exoplanets
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 11, 2016, 04:49:31 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 11, 2016, 03:30:30 PM
Calpamos is 10x the size of Jupiter, it's not outlandish that it would have earth-sized moons.
As for the size of LV-426/LV-233, it depends on if you want to side with a throwaway line of dialogue from a deleted scene (restored for the "director's cut") which may or may not have been accurate, or the visual evidence presented in the movies, well-known science facts, and basic common sense.
While I do prefer the visual evidence, I really wish they'd hire an Astronomer or at least ask someone who knows about Astronomy if they want their movies to look more realistic. At the least in the Astronomy areas.
We've never discovered any exoplanet larger than 6x the size of Jupiter (And that was a very rare find). So at 10x...it doesn't really shine as accurate.
List of largest exoplanets:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_exoplanets
They had a mix-up and hired an astrologer instead.
I did some research and came up with more answers.
First off, I don't know if they hired an Astrologer nor would it have mattered much if they had hired an Astronomer back in 1978. The reason is because most of this information is relatively new and most exoplanets (and Exoplanetology) have only just recently been discovered.
Especially with the Kepler launch in 2009.
From what I read it is impossible for a gas giant that is not closely orbiting its Star (like Jupiter and Calpamos) to grow larger than 1.5-2x the size of Jupiter. If you add more matter the additional gravity would compress the gas giant, in other words, it would get smaller, but at the same time heavier or more massive.
Some Gas Giants, called Hot Jupiters, witch are orbiting next to their stars, can get inflated to much larger sizes. Like most of the ones on that list that are 2-6x are hot Jupiters and shouldn't even be discussed as you can't explore or build on them.
So therefore the maximum size of a gas giant like Calpamos, according to science, is 2x the size of Jupiter, or a diameter of 280,0000km. Therefore a moon the size of Earth is possible.
I find it's best to just ignore the CMTM.
I discovered yesterday that it also confused the Solomons (as in the islands on Earth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Islands) from which the Nostromo launched) with a distant star system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Caeli). :laugh:
Also, "Thetis." :laugh:
Does it say how big Calpamos is in either the CMTM or WYR?
A large moon could be possible. I found this very interesting answer. It's possible someone who saw Prometheus and wanted a similar answer, asked it.
Is it possible for an earth sized planet to orbit as a moon around a gas giant?
On a Super-Jupiter or Brown Dwarf yes, (provided that your Planet is outside the radiation belt). Natural Moons of Gas Giants their mass should be less than 0.0001 of the mass of the gas Giant.
Jupiter's moons are pretty massive, but not as massive as Earth, so a Super-Jupiter would suffice. Saturn who's less massive, has less massive moons, Uranus even less.
There would be one problem, Gas Giants form out beyond the frost Zone (that we know of, we don't have gas giants closer in our Solar system for reference, but we see a lot of Hot-Jupiters though) so the moons of the Gas giants would be Water worlds if they're in the Habitable Zone of the parent star (the Gas giant can also generate heat for the moon).
A captured moon is completely plausible though. I wouldn't be surprised if Jupiter moved in and captured the rocky planets of our solar system. Fun fact: Triton is a moon caught by Neptune, so this even exists in our solar system. (Jupiter doesn't move in from perturbations of Saturn.)
How big does the (parent) gas giant have to be to be able to form a balanced orbit? Does "that massive" earth sized planet has to be "captured" to be its satellite, or can it form from debris of the original gas giant materials? Also, does the earth sized planet orbiting gas giants has to be tidally locked?
The physics would work and it has been used a lot in Science Fiction. But as User says, moons are likely to be much smaller.
An inward-migrating giant might pick up a rocky planet as a new moon. That would probably mean a very eliptical orbit.
It's also possible that moon-formation in our solar system is not typical and that much bigger moons can form without a capture or the sort of collision that formed the Earth-Moon System.
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"There would be one problem, Gas Giants form out beyond the frost Zone (that we know of, we don't have gas giants closer in our Solar system for reference, but we see a lot of Hot-Jupiters though) so the moons of the Gas giants would be Water worlds if they're in the Habitable Zone of the parent star (the Gas giant can also generate heat for the moon)."
This is great for the movie, as I'm sure the gas giant Calpamos is far out of the habitable zone and most probably in the frost zone of it's host star, hence the cold moons. There are a lot of possibilities though in Astronomy, so it's hard to say, for example the gas giant could be providing heat to it's moon, etc. even if they are far out in the frost zone..I will check most of Jupiter's moons temp later. :)
What were the temperatures of LV-223 and LV-426 before terraforming? :)
PS> I hope there are 3 moons and that is not LV-426 in the picture with LV-223 circled. If LV-426 truly is 12.000km than that puts LV-223 at more than 25,000km...highly unlikely. They need to rethink this or better yet just add a name for the 3rd moon :) and pretend that's the one pictured next to LV-223. LV-223 should be as big as LV-426, not bigger, for things to make sense.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 11, 2016, 11:18:03 PM
PS> I hope there are 3 moons and that is not LV-426 in the picture with LV-223 circled If LV-426 truly is 12.000km than tha puts LV-223 at more 25,000km...highly unlikely. They need to rethink this or better yet add a name for the 3rd moon :) LV-223 should be as big as LV-426.
It's not outside the realm of possibility that the third moon wasn't even there in 2091. It may have been a rogue planet that drifted into the gravitational influence of the gas giant and wound up in orbit (http://www.space.com/15308-rogue-alien-planets-billions-stars.html).
I've looked through a few of the many pages on this thread but I can't see the answer to my question - I just bought the standard edition of this book... Does it have any of the inserts that are advertised in the special edition?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 11, 2016, 09:24:48 PM
I find it's best to just ignore the CMTM.
I discovered yesterday that it also confused the Solomons (as in the islands on Earth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Islands) from which the Nostromo launched) with a distant star system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Caeli). :laugh:
Also, "Thetis." :laugh:
the CMTM gets a hell of a lot more right than it gets wrong, and it has fewer mistakes than the WY Report (despite having 10x the content).
Also the WY Report itself (mostly) doesn't ignore the CMTM report. In fact the size of LV-426 is one of the few things it does ignore (and surprise surprise, it's one of the few things it gets wrong, and then drags the size of LV-223 down with it :D )
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 11, 2016, 11:18:03 PM
Does it say how big Calpamos is in either the CMTM or WYR?
Yes, it puts it at 10x the size of Jupiter.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2016, 04:55:39 AMthe CMTM gets a hell of a lot more right than it gets wrong, and it has fewer mistakes than the WY Report (despite having 10x the content).
Wasn't about 95% of the CMTM made-up fluff?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2016, 04:55:39 AMAlso the WY Report itself (mostly) doesn't ignore the CMTM report. In fact the size of LV-426 is one of the few things it does ignore (and surprise surprise, it's one of the few things it gets wrong, and then drags the size of LV-223 down with it :D )
It's hardly wrong if it's going by the source material.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2016, 12:31:13 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2016, 04:55:39 AMAlso the WY Report itself (mostly) doesn't ignore the CMTM report. In fact the size of LV-426 is one of the few things it does ignore (and surprise surprise, it's one of the few things it gets wrong, and then drags the size of LV-223 down with it :D )
It's hardly wrong if it's going by the source material.
Which is a little misleading since the source material takes place during a deleted scene doesn't it?
That scene wasn't even a part of any officially released version of the film until almost a decade after the Tech Manual came out.
Well I only consider theatrical cuts as canon myself, that goes for all films.
Bah, the CMTM couldn't even get the
basics right.
Quote from: SM on Oct 04, 2012, 03:24:01 AMNever paid much attention to the Sulaco speed, but I just had another look and yeah, 0.74ly/day is too slow. Should be around 1.8. The length of the Sulaco is also wrong.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2016, 12:14:45 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 11, 2016, 11:18:03 PM
PS> I hope there are 3 moons and that is not LV-426 in the picture with LV-223 circled. If LV-426 truly is 12.000km than that puts LV-223 at more than 25,000km...highly unlikely. They need to rethink this or better yet just add a name for the 3rd moon :) and pretend that's the one pictured next to LV-223. LV-223 should be as big as LV-426, not bigger, for things to make sense.
It's not outside the realm of possibility that the third moon wasn't even there in 2091. It may have been a rogue planet that drifted into the gravitational influence of the gas giant and wound up in orbit (http://www.space.com/15308-rogue-alien-planets-billions-stars.html).
Hehe, I like your thinking, highly unlikely, but possible.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2016, 04:55:39 AM
In fact the size of LV-426 is one of the few things it does ignore (and surprise surprise, it's one of the few things it gets wrong, and then drags the size of LV-223 down with it :D )
Funny ;D
Quote from: Bughunter S. Thomson on Sep 12, 2016, 12:34:43 AM
I've looked through a few of the many pages on this thread but I can't see the answer to my question - I just bought the standard edition of this book... Does it have any of the inserts that are advertised in the special edition?
I think it has some of them, but not all. Someone who has the standard version would know more.
Quote from: Bughunter S. Thomson on Sep 12, 2016, 12:34:43 AMI've looked through a few of the many pages on this thread but I can't see the answer to my question - I just bought the standard edition of this book... Does it have any of the inserts that are advertised in the special edition?
Try here (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Alien%3A_The_Weyland-Yutani_Report). As SM says, it has some of the inserts but not all of them. The page will tell you what's missing.
That reads as if all those inserts were exclusive to the original release and not in the standard version. I know Burke's business card wasn't in the standard version, but I think some of the other inserts were.
Quote from: SM on Sep 12, 2016, 11:38:24 PMThat reads as if all those inserts were exclusive to the original release and not in the standard version. I know Burke's business card wasn't in the standard version, but I think some of the other inserts were.
I've got both editions. The standard version only comes with five inserts - Lambert's report, the medical report on Marachuk, Hicks' field report, Space Beast, and Y. Bose's debrief. The rest listed in the bullet points are only in the Collector's Edition.
Might fiddle with that to make what
is in the standard edition a bit clearer.
Ah. Righto.
The Ultra Special Limited Edition should have an insert with a cutaway diagram of the entire Sulaco that pinpoints the location of the egg.
I must confess I was a little disappointed that the diagram of the Sulaco's exterior didn't show us outlines of the EEVs somewhere along its outer hull.
Or was that deliberate?
Damnit local trouble lol, don't spread that endless egg debate in here too. Face palms self. :D
There were several discussions about the location of the EEVs amongst 'the brains trust' before WYR was a thing. I don't believe we ever came to a consensus however.
What was your own opinion on the matter?
Originally I would've gone with the EEVs being at the bottom of the ship, due to the tubes appearing to be sliding down into lifeboat, but that doesn't fit with model we see when the EEV is launched. Based on the door and ladders, it looks like it's being launched out the side of the ship. There's a bunch of different factors that I haven't fully considered, but if I were to guess I'd put them midships above the conning tower and forward of the fusion torus.
If they added some parachutes to those lifeboats, Hicks might still be around...
The novelisation did a good job of explaining why it crashes and kills almost everyone on board, but sadly the film didn't attempt to justify it.
Quote from: SM on Sep 13, 2016, 01:43:21 AM
Originally I would've gone with the EEVs being at the bottom of the ship, due to the tubes appearing to be sliding down into lifeboat, but that doesn't fit with model we see when the EEV is launched. Based on the door and ladders, it looks like it's being launched out the side of the ship. There's a bunch of different factors that I haven't fully considered, but if I were to guess I'd put them midships above the conning tower and forward of the fusion torus.
I see what you mean.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F23wpr10.jpg&hash=f13d9ccc86d0e73f2fb357edb970522e3f8a252f)
Could that entire chamber be zero-G? After all, how are the waking crewmembers supposed to get to those ladders? There's an entire row of EEVs beneath them and no visible walkway so you may be right about them detaching from the ventral hull after all.
Either way, it looks like a pretty cumbersome way to evacuate the ship for anyone not in hypersleep.
There are ladders here and there to enable crew to get to EEVs, but they could also be handholds in zero g environment.
Quote from: SM on Sep 13, 2016, 08:35:11 PM
There are ladders here and there to enable crew to get to EEVs,
But where are they supposed to start their climb from? There's no
floor at the foot of each ladder. All I see are rungs.
It's not visible in the film, but above the EEV that launches there's a hatch from elsewhere in the ship and a platform. The ladders can be used to access to the dorsal access hatches on the EEVs.
Ah. Did you see production stills of the model somewhere?
There's a few on the DVDs. Can't seem to find a decent one online though.
If you can tell me which gallery they're in, I've got all the stills from the Blu-ray capped.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2016, 12:31:13 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2016, 04:55:39 AMthe CMTM gets a hell of a lot more right than it gets wrong, and it has fewer mistakes than the WY Report (despite having 10x the content).
Wasn't about 95% of the CMTM made-up fluff?
That doesn't really change what I said - the stuff sourced from the movie, it does get right much, much more than it gets wrong.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2016, 12:31:13 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2016, 04:55:39 AMAlso the WY Report itself (mostly) doesn't ignore the CMTM report. In fact the size of LV-426 is one of the few things it does ignore (and surprise surprise, it's one of the few things it gets wrong, and then drags the size of LV-223 down with it :D )
It's hardly wrong if it's going by the source material.
It is if the "source material" is wrong.
To go back to your idea of Calpamos' third moon being a "captured moon" sometime after the events of 'Prometheus', there's a bit of a problem with that idea that occurred to me yesterday.
Like, yes, captured celestial bodies is a thing that happens (it's theorized that many of Jupiter and Saturn's moons are captured bodies), but the problem is that the timeframe for a captured body to settle into a stable orbit is measured in the scale of "thousands to millions of years" and tend to have highly irregular orbits. And in that period where the captured body settles into its newly captured orbit around the larger planet, the captured moon's mass and gravity are going to screw with the orbits of the other moons that are already there.
That isn't to say the third moon being a captured body is outright impossible, just that it's far more likely that the 'Prometheus' filmmakers (or whoever) goofed up or something.
Then again I've never been a big fan of the idea that LV-223 is literally orbiting the same planet as LV-426, it feels really unnecessarily contrived.
Quote from: SM on Sep 13, 2016, 01:43:21 AM
Originally I would've gone with the EEVs being at the bottom of the ship, due to the tubes appearing to be sliding down into lifeboat, but that doesn't fit with model we see when the EEV is launched. Based on the door and ladders, it looks like it's being launched out the side of the ship. There's a bunch of different factors that I haven't fully considered, but if I were to guess I'd put them midships above the conning tower and forward of the fusion torus.
Not that 'Aliens: Colonial Marines' is a gold standard of film accuracy and quality research or anything, but I can't remember where the game puts the EEVs when everything starts falling apart and people are evacuating the Sulaco (or if we see any getting launched from the Sephora before it gets destroyed).
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 14, 2016, 08:13:11 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2016, 12:31:13 PM
Wasn't about 95% of the CMTM made-up fluff?
That doesn't really change what I said - the stuff sourced from the movie, it does get right much, much more than it gets wrong.
Do you have an example of something it got right that it didn't fabricate to begin with?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2016, 04:55:39 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2016, 12:31:13 PMIt's hardly wrong if it's going by the source material.
It is if the "source material" is wrong.
If you insist. I maintain that the source material can never truly be fixed by the EU.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2016, 04:55:39 AMTo go back to your idea of Calpamos' third moon being a "captured moon" sometime after the events of 'Prometheus', there's a bit of a problem with that idea that occurred to me yesterday.
[snip]
Then again I've never been a big fan of the idea that LV-223 is literally orbiting the same planet as LV-426, it feels really unnecessarily contrived.
I actually agree with that. However, yet another possibility is that the third "moon" is actually another large planet and that it and Calpamos are what's known as a double planet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_planet).
Ok so just to be clear, In Alien it showed 3 Moons and Prometheus 2? What if one was behind Calpamos during its orbit? Some rotate around their host Planet reallyyyy slow. Is that possible or am I missing something? I may have to watch Prometheus again for the tenth+ time this weekend.
Alien showed three other celestial bodies near Calpamos. One of them was in front of Calpamos so it was obviously smaller and closer. The others may have been moons, but Prometheus indicates that Calpamos only had two. The third body could therefore be a large planet in the distance rather than a third moon of Calpamos.
So is it not possible that the third moon is simply on the other side of calpamos?
Wouldn't this hologram show its orbital path?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2F34gkdc5.jpg&hash=63d60de03af7ad7498d91b6d4c38fd694728bfa3)
Thats right, I forgot about the hologram :D
Was only remembering the shot of the Prometheus approaching LV223.
I found this somewhere, but it might be outdated information:
"LV-426 (Acheron) is a satellite orbiting the ringed planet Calpamos in the binary star system Zeta Reticuli, 37 light-years from Sol. It is notable for being home to a colony of Xenomorphs, one of the most dangerous parasitic lifeforms in our galaxy. However, they must rely on the chance visit of other alien species like humans or Space Jockeys. (now known as Ossians) No native species are found here.
The Xenomorph eggs are located in a large room in or beneath a crashed Ossian derelict space vessel. Characteristics of LV-426 (Acheron) Although this satellite is only 2,213 miles in diameter, the gravity of LV-426 (Acheron) is about .86 of Earth's, this hints at a very dense metal core, also from the way people are able to walk on its surface after terraforming for extended periods of time, it seems there is a slight magnetic field. There is a temperature difference (though only slight) which is enough to create the almost constant gales here.
Calpamos and its 3 moons, are only just outside Zeta 2's habitable zone. LV-426 formed from a disc of gas and dust that orbited around Calpamos when this whole system was young, a lot of this material clumped together to form the 3 satellites of which LV-426 is the middle one. The inner moon is called Rosto, similar in size and composition to Europa that orbits our Jupiter. The outer moon is called Varda and is an innert lump of rock very much comparitable to Earth's moon. Varda barely has an atmosphere and there is no detectable water.
The ring system surrounding Calpamos may have been formed from the collision of 2 smaller moons several million years ago, or most likely the residue left over from the original disc of dust and gas that never condensed together. The atmosphere of LV 426, is described by Ash as 'almost primordial', and consists mostly of nitrogen, but also methane, carbon dioxide, ammonia and smaller amounts of other trace elements. The temperature is deep cold, well below the line, circa - 111 centigrade."
Where did you find that? Ossians?
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 11, 2016, 08:08:01 PM
So therefore the maximum size of a gas giant like Calpamos, according to science, is 2x the size of Jupiter, or a diameter of 120,0000km. Therefore a moon the size of Earth is possible.
I was actually wrong here. I was using the radius of Jupiter and not the diameter. Therefore the largest possible size would be 280,000km or twice Jupiter's diameter of 139,822 km.
"Calpamos (117, 925 km), the ringed gas giant that the moon LV-426 revolves around in the Alien series"
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 14, 2016, 02:58:32 PM
Where did you find that? Ossians?
The person who posted that info started his pos like this:
Posted May-12-2012 11:04 PM
I just copy pasted from aliens wiki
The simple fact is Acheron can't be as small as the deleted scene says it is because it would be visibly curved when you're standing on it, which it isn't in Alien and it definitely isn't in Aliens.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 14, 2016, 02:58:32 PM
Where did you find that? Ossians?
I see more info on Ossians here:
http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Mala'kak
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Engineer
Quote from: SM on Sep 14, 2016, 01:25:16 AM
There's a few on the DVDs. Can't seem to find a decent one online though.
Here's an interesting pic I found that was obviously analyzed by someone else already.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2Famb9g1.jpg&hash=007678c9cdc5bb812a650aac8932049d9496a3c4)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 03:06:16 PM
The simple fact is Acheron can't be as small as the deleted scene says it is because it would be visibly curved when you're standing on it, which it isn't in Alien and it definitely isn't in Aliens.
How could you tell when the planetoid's surface is covered in uneven terrain like mountains and valleys? Wouldn't you need an unobstructed view of the horizon?
Besides, our own moon is definitely a bit larger than LV-426, but photos of the Apollo astronauts walking on the surface don't reveal any obvious signs of curvature on the horizon.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F50fke9.jpg&hash=16e2a7599ed363c6efea6ed526d6667d447f4d6a)
Or did Kubrick simply fail to take that into account when he filmed it?
What does SM usually say about all this?
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 14, 2016, 03:10:29 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 14, 2016, 02:58:32 PM
Where did you find that? Ossians?
I see more info on Ossians here:
http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Mala'kak
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Engineer
I can remember where Mala'kak came from but I have no idea where Ossians is from. Anyone know?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 14, 2016, 03:19:25 PMHow could you tell if the planetoid is covered in uneven terrain like mountains and valleys?
There aren't any mountains and valleys. There are a lot of fairly large, weirdly-shaped rocks poking up about the place and some small rises, but otherwise the terrain we see in the films is relatively flat. The curvature would really be quite noticeable if it was only 1,200 km across - seriously, that's tiny, less than a quarter of the distance from New York to London for an
entire planet - but the ground seems pretty flat. In fact, 1,200 km is barely bigger than the UK top to bottom.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 14, 2016, 03:19:25 PM
Besides, our own moon is definitely a bit larger than LV-426, but photos of the Apollo 11 astronauts walking on the surface don't reveal any obvious signs of curvature on the horizon.
http://i65.tinypic.com/bi6z6a.jpg
That's a pretty pointless photograph Trouble. There are no familiar objects in the distance which can give you a point of reference with regards to scale.
The image below better illustrates how truncated the horizon is. Notice how close that flag is sitting to the horizon (click on image to enlarge).
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Aldrin_with_experiment.jpg)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 03:06:16 PM
The simple fact is Acheron can't be as small as the deleted scene says it is because it would be visibly curved when you're standing on it, which it isn't in Alien and it definitely isn't in Aliens.
I don't think that's correct either. I did some snooping around and found some proof, therefore you are guilty of deceiving us lol.
Seriously though, checkout these 2 links, it explains it well enough as do the pictures above and in these links.
Also, our moon is roughly 87km smaller in diameter than LV-426. Pretty much the same views on the moon. Whichever has a flatter surface
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 03:28:30 PM
There aren't any mountains and valleys. There are a lot of fairly large, weirdly-shaped rocks poking up about the place and some small rises, but otherwise the terrain we see in the films is relatively flat.
Is this your idea of flat?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2Fb8s769.jpg&hash=85a189b954119cd8e820e642342a13640ce745fc)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F10d8myr.jpg&hash=7ae7a70bfc069553d6892418063d31299d4bd543)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2Fspgajl.jpg&hash=b48414ac705c5174645862ffd8efd907e12aa52e)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 14, 2016, 03:37:22 PM
That's a pretty pointless photograph Trouble. There are no familiar objects in the distance which can give you a point of reference with regards to scale.
The image below better illustrates how truncated the horizon is. Notice how close that flag is sitting to the horizon (click on image to enlarge).
And yet the curvature isn't apparent on both sides of that photo. The horizon is a non-issue because we never get a view of it on LV-426 that isn't obscured by terrain or atmospheric haze.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 14, 2016, 03:52:26 PMIs this your idea of flat?
Very easy to post some convenient closeups. I'm talking more about the wide shots.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fweyland-ycorporation%2Fimages%2F4%2F4f%2FLV426-1.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130519141122&hash=36ff0ded9f8cc5f8113adf8aff702333731c3ef0)
Check this theory out:
The Moon is about a quarter (1/4) of the Earth's diameter.
Imagine if you were 4 times as tall (about 7 meters). Your new size and Earth's size would be proportional to your normal size and the size of the Moon.
The amount of curvature of the Earth's horizon from 7 meters up is comparable to the Moon's curvature from normal eye height. You know already from everyday experience you can't see the curvature of the Earth from the third floor of a building.
More to the point, Calpamos is 10x the size of Jupiter?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-KvLYgRig-MQ%2FT86evRoXfsI%2FAAAAAAAAA2U%2FWppz9VMud38%2Fs1600%2FALIEN_Dennis_Lowe_pics145.jpg&hash=06400979bffdc1c6c8d5aede44955bce07745ee6)
That moon should be a freaking pinprick if it's only 1,200 km across.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 03:59:26 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 14, 2016, 03:52:26 PMIs this your idea of flat?
Very easy to post some convenient closeups. I'm talking more about the wide shots.
Post as many wide shots as you want. They're all inconclusive from what I can see.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 04:01:08 PM
More to the point, Calpamos is 10x the size of Jupiter?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-KvLYgRig-MQ%2FT86evRoXfsI%2FAAAAAAAAA2U%2FWppz9VMud38%2Fs1600%2FALIEN_Dennis_Lowe_pics145.jpg&hash=06400979bffdc1c6c8d5aede44955bce07745ee6)
That moon should be a freaking pinprick if it's only 1,200 km across.
That depends entirely on both its distance from the camera and the moon's distance from the planet.
I suspect the hologram was designed more for illustrative purposes, not for size accuracy. Kinda like this diagram from space.com.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi67.tinypic.com%2Fswefsy.jpg&hash=82479c35c4996ee4a889c4626f270fb34a4eaeb2)
It's also possible that the outer moon of Calpamos is in a wider orbit, like Callisto, and thus didn't make the cut when they designed the hologram.
A very interesting thread on this subject, http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=46532.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=46532.0)
By the way, is this a scene from within a movie?. It would be an even bigger goof since it would mean there are 4 moons.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi104.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm191%2FIzzys88%2FAliens%2F01065_Alien_Sibthorp.jpg&hash=755d848aeb9570e3c7babad92abc62dc3fd1e285)
I don't think that's in the movie.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 14, 2016, 04:36:02 PM
I suspect the hologram was designed more for illustrative purposes, not for size accuracy. Kinda like this diagram from space.com.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi67.tinypic.com%2Fswefsy.jpg&hash=82479c35c4996ee4a889c4626f270fb34a4eaeb2)
It's also possible that the outer moon of Calpamos is in a wider orbit, like Callisto, and thus didn't make the cut when they designed the hologram.
"wider orbit" I thought of that, I think that makes good sense.
Does anyone know if this is a fact? "Calpamos (117, 925 km), the ringed gas giant that the moon LV-426 revolves around in the Alien series"
I was wrong earlier. I was using the radius of Jupiter and not the diameter. Therefore the largest possible size would be 280,000km or twice Jupiter's diameter of 139,822 km. Which makes good sense, as Jupiter is already almost at the maximum size for a Gas Giant. If the earlier info that e found of LV-426 having a 3,500km diameter it would make perfect sense. It would put LV-223 in the 5,000km+ diameter range.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 04:01:08 PM
More to the point, Calpamos is 10x the size of Jupiter?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-KvLYgRig-MQ%2FT86evRoXfsI%2FAAAAAAAAA2U%2FWppz9VMud38%2Fs1600%2FALIEN_Dennis_Lowe_pics145.jpg&hash=06400979bffdc1c6c8d5aede44955bce07745ee6)
That moon should be a freaking pinprick if it's only 1,200 km across.
That's actually not possible, it would implode from it's own gravity. Jupiter has a diameter of 139,800km. A planet cannot have a diameter of 1,398,00km. Max from what I was reading is 1.5x - 2x Jupiter's diameter. If you add more mass it implodes.
I think that info earlier with Calpamos being 117,000km is very probable. With LV-426 at 3,550km and LV-223 the size of Ganymede or around 5000-5,500km. Forget the hologram by the way, as there is not enough room for the 3rd planet's wide orbit and the moons are made to look bigger to study them/showcase them better. And the space scene uses various shots to make the moons look bigger than they really appear. The 3rd moon is far in the distance because it has a much wider orbit. I think these are the best solutions and/or explanations.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 14, 2016, 05:03:22 PMI think that info earlier with Calpamos being 117,000km is very probable. With LV-426 at 3,550km and LV-223 the size of Ganymede or around 5000-5,500km.
That's a blatant contradiction of the WYR and a staggering defiance of authority.
::)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 14, 2016, 04:58:44 PM
I don't think that's in the movie.
I dont think so either... But man what a great pic, looks so cool.
This is where all that info came from: (What is right and what is wrong?)
LV-426 2,213 miles in diameter (3,540km) (Source is......but a very believable size for a nice large Gas Giant moon)
http://www.scified.com/topic/17394 says he copied it from Aliens Wiki?
Calpamos 117, 925 km (Not a reliable source at all, but a very believable diameter for a large Gas Giant)
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/238972323947833168/ & http://pics-about-space.com/floating-alien-gas-giant?p=4
Here it says LV-426 is only 1,200km (Highly unlikely that LV-426 is so small, from the space scenes in Alien, unless Calpamos is really small?)
http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/LV-426 & http://weyland.wikia.com/wiki/LV426
Here it says LV-426 is 12,201km in diameter
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Acheron_(LV-426)
And the most ridiculous one: Here it says Calpamos has a diameter of 8,800km
http://weyland.wikia.com/wiki/Calpamos
I think the most important thing is to find out Calpamos's real size first...anyone know...? and it can't be more than twice the size of Jupiter, because than your in bozo science territory.
But, it might be possible for a Jupiter sized planet to have a moon the size of Earth (12,742km) as some say here https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-for-an-earth-sized-planet-to-orbit-as-a-moon-around-a-gas-giant
Answer 1. An iron-based planet such as the earth would be too heavy and tidal forces would break it apart. Any large moon would have to be composed of much lighter elements, such as styrophonium.
Answer 2. Maybe not. If it were not tidally locked, the tidal forces would generate a lot of heat, and melt it or even break it apart and it would never get to be tidally locked. After all the largest moon in the solar system is only 2.5% of Earth's mass, perhaps that is the reason.
Answer 3. On a Super-Jupiter or Brown Dwarf yes, (provided that your Planet is outside the radiation belt). Natural Moons of Gas Giants their mass should be less than 0.0001 of the mass of the gas Giant.
Jupiter's moons are pretty massive, but not as massive as Earth, so a Super-Jupiter would suffice. Saturn who's less massive, has less massive moons, Uranus even less.
There would be one problem, Gas Giants form out beyond the frost Zone (that we know of, we don't have gas giants closer in our Solar system for reference, but we see a lot of Hot-Jupiters though) so the moons of the Gas giants would be Water worlds if they're in the Habitable Zone of the parent star (the Gas giant can also generate heat for the moon).
A captured moon is completely plausible though. I wouldn't be surprised if Jupiter moved in and captured the rocky planets of our solar system. Fun fact: Triton is a moon caught by Neptune, so this even exists in our solar system. (Jupiter doesn't move in from perturbations of Saturn.)
Answer 4. The physics would work and it has been used a lot in Science Fiction. But as User says, moons are likely to be much smaller.
An inward-migrating giant might pick up a rocky planet as a new moon. That would probably mean a very eliptical orbit.
It's also possible that moon-formation in our solar system is not typical and that much bigger moons can form without a capture or the sort of collision that formed the Earth-Moon System.
The scietific answer: Tidal locking gives a formula for the time until tidal locking of a satellite's rotation:
tlock≈6 a6Rμmsm2p×1010 yearstlock≈6 a6Rμmsmp2×1010 years
where a is the satellite-planet distance in meters, R is the satellite's radius, the m's are the satellite and planet masses in kilograms, and μ is the satellite's rigidity, which can be roughly taken as 3×10^10 N/m^2 for rocky objects.
Plugging in Earth's radius and mass and Jupiter's mass of 1.8986e27 kg:
\frac{6\cdot 6371000 \cdot a^6 \cdot 3\times 10^{10}}{5.9736\times10^{24} \cdot 1.8986 \times 10^{27}^2}\frac{6\cdot 6371000 \cdot a^6 \cdot 3\times 10^{10}}{5.9736\times10^{24} \cdot 1.8986 \times 10^{27}^2}
5.326239e-62 (orbital radius)^6 < 1
orbital radius < 16.3028 million km
This is a distance similar to Jupiter's outer satellites.
Last answer: An author called Neil Commins answered that question is his book:
What If the Earth Had Two Moons?: And Nine Other Thought-Provoking Speculations on the Solar System.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 14, 2016, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 14, 2016, 03:37:22 PM
That's a pretty pointless photograph Trouble. There are no familiar objects in the distance which can give you a point of reference with regards to scale.
The image below better illustrates how truncated the horizon is. Notice how close that flag is sitting to the horizon (click on image to enlarge).
And yet the curvature isn't apparent on both sides of that photo. The horizon is a non-issue because we never get a view of it on LV-426 that isn't obscured by terrain or atmospheric haze.
No, I was talking about distance to horizon. You'd have to be pretty high up to see the curvature of the moon. To see the curvature of Earth you need to be at least above 50 000 feet. That's a bit higher than most commercial airliners fly, but something like a F-15 or Mig 29 should get you there.
Buzz Aldrin actually remarked on how "disoriented" he felt on the moon because of the close horizon.
But I agree, it's a non-issue in this case since LV-426 is way too rugged to make out the horizon.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 14, 2016, 07:17:23 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 07:08:49 PM
::)
Submit. Conform. Obey.
You're really insufferable today aren't you Trouble. :P
I get cranky when SM isn't around.
Using the painting of the planet and the moons to try to gauge their actual size is going to leave people with headaches as the painting ain't intended for accuracy.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 14, 2016, 12:30:33 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 14, 2016, 08:13:11 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2016, 12:31:13 PM
Wasn't about 95% of the CMTM made-up fluff?
That doesn't really change what I said - the stuff sourced from the movie, it does get right much, much more than it gets wrong.
Do you have an example of something it got right that it didn't fabricate to begin with?
I'd have to re-read the Tech Manual (which I've been meaning to do, it's been a long time since I gave it an in-depth reading). I'll get back to you.
Oh, unrelated, but
Local Trouble did you get that PM I sent you several weeks ago?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 14, 2016, 12:30:33 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 12, 2016, 04:55:39 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Sep 12, 2016, 12:31:13 PMIt's hardly wrong if it's going by the source material.
It is if the "source material" is wrong.
If you insist. I maintain that the source material can never truly be fixed by the EU.
It's more a case of the "source material" providing two contradictory things (what Lambert
says, vs what the movies
show), and an EU source provides an easy and obvious solution that even lines up with the other things said in the deleted scene (such has LV-426's gravity).
Or in other words:
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 03:06:16 PM
The simple fact is Acheron can't be as small as the deleted scene says it is because it would be visibly curved when you're standing on it, which it isn't in Alien and it definitely isn't in Aliens.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 14, 2016, 03:19:25 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 14, 2016, 01:25:16 AM
There's a few on the DVDs. Can't seem to find a decent one online though.
Here's an interesting pic I found that was obviously analyzed by someone else already.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2Famb9g1.jpg&hash=007678c9cdc5bb812a650aac8932049d9496a3c4)
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 03:06:16 PM
How could you tell when the planetoid's surface is covered in uneven terrain like mountains and valleys? Wouldn't you need an unobstructed view of the horizon?
Besides, our own moon is definitely a bit larger than LV-426, but photos of the Apollo astronauts walking on the surface don't reveal any obvious signs of curvature on the horizon.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F50fke9.jpg&hash=16e2a7599ed363c6efea6ed526d6667d447f4d6a)
Well you can kinda see the curvature of the horizon in that moon photo, but it's worth pointing out that earth's moon is 3474km in diameter, meaning it's nearly 3x the alleged size of LV-426. The Nostromo crew wouldn't be able to safely walk on it because it's too small to have the appropriate gravity demonstrated in the movie.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 14, 2016, 03:51:47 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 03:06:16 PM
The simple fact is Acheron can't be as small as the deleted scene says it is because it would be visibly curved when you're standing on it, which it isn't in Alien and it definitely isn't in Aliens.
I don't think that's correct either. I did some snooping around and found some proof, therefore you are guilty of deceiving us lol.
Seriously though, checkout these 2 links, it explains it well enough as do the pictures above and in these links.
Also, our moon is roughly 87km smaller in diameter than LV-426. Pretty much the same views on the moon. Whichever has a flatter surface
Earth's moon is 3474km in diameter, almost triple that of LV426's alleged 1200km.
1200km is seriously tiny. As in, half the size of Pluto.
As for a gas giant being 10x the size of Jupiter, it's not impossible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_100546#HD_100546_b).
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 15, 2016, 01:45:06 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 14, 2016, 03:51:47 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 03:06:16 PM
The simple fact is Acheron can't be as small as the deleted scene says it is because it would be visibly curved when you're standing on it, which it isn't in Alien and it definitely isn't in Aliens.
I don't think that's correct either. I did some snooping around and found some proof, therefore you are guilty of deceiving us lol.
Seriously though, checkout these 2 links, it explains it well enough as do the pictures above and in these links.
Also, our moon is roughly 87km smaller in diameter than LV-426. Pretty much the same views on the moon. Whichever has a flatter surface
Earth's moon is 3474km in diameter, almost triple that of LV426's alleged 1200km.
1200km is seriously tiny. As in, half the size of Pluto.
As for a gas giant being 10x the size of Jupiter, it's not impossible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_100546#HD_100546_b).
I was going with the other reference that said LV-426 had a diameter of 3,550 km. One site says 1,200, another says 3,550 and another says 12,100km...
If you think a Gas Giant can grow to 10x the size of Jupiter or have a diameter of 1,388,000km than I don't know what to tell you....I've clearly explained to you that it's not possible, it would collapse. You can trust Nasa and the scientific community or you can believe that they do in fact exist. It's your choice of course lol.
There are some things that science can not explain, however. ;)
The link clearly states it might be more than one planet or a brown dwarf. Hot Jupiters are physically larger than Jupiter a lot of the time, but have equal or less mass because they're basically overinflated by heat.
I see you got that planet from the top of the list from the previous link I posted. Cool.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_exoplanets
That one is 6x Jupiter but read closely what is says. It is a possible brown dwarf star or at the very least a Hot Jupiter. Which means it's closely orbiting its host Star and has been inflated. It would never have gotten that big if it were outside or even in the habitable zone. Calpamos is right outside the habitable zone.
Which makes sense, otherwise they wouldn't even be able to land or explore if it was too close to the host star.
There have been thousands of exoplanets discovered. Only about 5 are more than double the size of Jupiter. All are Hot Jupiters orbiting their stars. A moon next to one of these would not be possible for exploration in the Alien timeline.
There have been hundreds of Gas Giants discovered with 1.1x - 1.8x the size of Jupiter which should easily tell you that that is the maximum size a Gas Giant with explorable moons will be. At least 99.8% of the time.
Also don't confuse mass with size. 2 different things, I'm sure you know this, but can mix them up sometimes.
This is a helpful link as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exoplanets
There have been roughly 3,500 exoplanets found.
If you sort them by Jupiter Radius size...you can clearly see that there's nothing much bigger than 2x Jupiter.
Last thing I will say, I am willing to bet the farm that Calpamos is between 80,000 and 180,000 km in diameter...and it's moons between 3,000 and 12,000km. Hopefully they mentiom something in Alien: Covenant.
Quote from: FiorinaFury161 on Sep 15, 2016, 02:26:44 AM
There are some things that science can not explain, however. ;)
Sure, when you're studying Astronomy, you'll be wise to remember that as there are events and things out there that you may very possibly never comprehend or understand.
But maybe not this one. I really don't think a planet can grow to the size of our Sun.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 14, 2016, 02:45:18 PMthe gravity of LV-426 (Acheron) is about .86 of Earth's, this hints at a very dense metal core,
This has long been my fanon rationalization as well. As I've stated over and over, it must have something exotic worth mining or else the company wouldn't bother co-financing a colony there.
There's a passing comment to that effect in the novelisation.
Have you written down your knowledge of these things in journals somewhere?
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 02:23:14 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 15, 2016, 01:45:06 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 14, 2016, 03:51:47 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 14, 2016, 03:06:16 PM
The simple fact is Acheron can't be as small as the deleted scene says it is because it would be visibly curved when you're standing on it, which it isn't in Alien and it definitely isn't in Aliens.
I don't think that's correct either. I did some snooping around and found some proof, therefore you are guilty of deceiving us lol.
Seriously though, checkout these 2 links, it explains it well enough as do the pictures above and in these links.
Also, our moon is roughly 87km smaller in diameter than LV-426. Pretty much the same views on the moon. Whichever has a flatter surface
Earth's moon is 3474km in diameter, almost triple that of LV426's alleged 1200km.
1200km is seriously tiny. As in, half the size of Pluto.
As for a gas giant being 10x the size of Jupiter, it's not impossible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_100546#HD_100546_b).
I was going with the other reference that said LV-426 had a diameter of 3,550 km. One site says 1,200, another says 3,550 and another says 12,100km...
If you think a Gas Giant can grow to 10x the size of Jupiter or have a diameter of 1,388,000km than I don't know what to tell you....I've clearly explained to you that it's not possible, it would collapse. You can trust Nasa and the scientific community or you can believe that they do in fact exist. It's your choice of course lol.
I'd like to add in a comment to this. I've done a lot of reading on exoplanets and astrophysics, and my understanding is this:
An object is classified as a planet (or dwarf planet, etc...) once it has gained enough mass that it's own gravity crushes it into a roughly spherical shape (other conditions apply as well such as whether it formed in the accretion disk etc...). Gas giants are different than rocky planets and can ONLY form in the frost region which is far enough away that gases can coalesce into a single object (which you mentioned before). Moving up from gas giants...
An object is classified as a brown dwarf once it has gained enough mass that it's own gravity crushes atoms together at the core creating fusion HOWEVER fusion is not sustained and may only last a couple thousand years or so. Once fusion stops, the object behaves more like a large planet. Young brown dwarfs are often mistaken for small stars, and old brown dwarfs are often mistaken as large planets. Technically, brown dwarfs are their own thing; a transitional step between gas giant planets and the next object up...
An object is classified as a star once it has gained enough mass that gravity creates and sustains fusion.
Fusion generates an outward force that counteracts the crushing force of gravity, creating an equilibrium that prevents the star from collapsing in on itself. Hydrogen is the easiest atom to fuse, and is consumed first in a star's life cycle. When two hydrogens fuse you get helium. At some point, the primary fuel for the star switches from hydrogen fusion to helium fusion, and helium fusion generates less energy than hydrogen fusion. This process continues up the periodic table of elements until you hit iron (the star killer). When iron is created, it consumes energy rather than releases energy, and the star loses that outward force that counteracted gravity, thus causing the star to collapse in on itself. This collapse will result in one of two outcomes depending on how massive the star was to begin with: either a supernova which leaves behind a pulsar, or a stellar-mass black hole. This is a very simplified explanation; there are a lot more details and some slight differences in how this process works depending on how massive the star is/was, but this is the gist of it, which brings me to my main point/contribution...
Gas giant planets won't collapse or implode if they gain too much mass. They'll transition up to the next object type. If that object happens to be a star, the star will need to burn through its fuel source for millions of years before it reaches the point of collapse/implosion. And similarly, pulsars 'theoretically' have a life cycle of their own which lasts millions of years, but instead of fusing atoms it's fusing protons and electrons to create neutrons (hence the alternative name neutron star), until eventually the pulsar runs out of fuel and transitions into a theoretical (and never observed) quark star (aka strange star). Quark stars fuse quarks together and are theorized to be the transitional step between pulsars and smaller stellar-mass black holes. Ok now I'm rambling. Anyway... Yea, lots of mass needed to cause a collapse, and you'd be in the star size range at that point.
The 'planet' referenced before, HD 100546 b, is VERY massive and has a large diameter. It's radius is approximately 6x that of jupiter's, and it's mass is approximately 17.5x jupiter's. Depending on your source, they may refer to this as a planet. I have this nifty app on my iPhone called "exoplanets" (which I'd recommend) which classifies this as a planet. However it IS actually believed to be a brown dwarf or possibly two planets in close proximity. Similarly, the exoplanet "DENIS-P J082303.1-491201 b" is 30x the mass of Jupiter, and some sources list it as a "planet" while others call it a "brown dwarf." It seems like a lot of resources use the terms 'planet' and 'brown dwarf' interchangeably, which is not technically correct.
That's all mass-based information though. You also mentioned size, or diameter. That matters very little; it just changes the planet's density, really, which you described accurately. Did you know that if you had a tub of water large enough, Saturn would float? It's massive, but it's also highly inflated giving it a very low density. Most highly inflated gas giants observed are classified as hot jupiters, which are close to their host star and the heat causes the inflation. But they cannot form that close to the star; they have to form in the frost region and migrate inwards. And once they become a hot Jupiter they don't last too long; the star is essentially boiling the planet's gases away. Most exoplanets discovered have been hot jupiters, which seems to suggest they're the most common type of planet in the universe, but the thing is, that data is likely skewed at the moment. Hot jupiters are the easiest to find; they're large, they orbit close to the host star, etc... And, we've only explored about a fraction of a percentage of the sky for planets. It wasn't until very recently hot jupiters were even realized as possible! We may find, as technology improves, that there are other unique types of gas giants out there too, like over inflated frozen giants or something. How that would work exactly, I don't know, but again no one thought a hot Jupiter was possible 20 years ago.
As for 'calpamos,' I'd say the only safe assumption is that it's not a hot Jupiter... Could be something else, or it could be about the same size and/or mass as Jupiter or Saturn. And it's moons, it's impossible to say their size based on visual reference in the movie. Orbital distance from the planet could vary making one moon look larger than another, and the horizon from the surface view is too skewed from the terrain and atmosphere to see any curvature.
Anyway, that's my take on things...
Sorry for the book. I kinda nerd out on this exoplanet stuff! Lol
PS. Uranus and Neptune are classified as "ice giants" instead of "gas giants" in case anyone is interested... The difference being ice giants are composed of heavier elements than hydrogen and helium (oxygen and nitrogen for example).
Nice to know you like Exoplanetology Engineer! I really didn't want to get into the brown dwarf discussiom so as to keep it from going overboard that's why I was just stopping at "it will collapse". That's what's good about Astronomy you can write a whole book on just one topic...
It makes sense that so many hot jupiters have been discovered since they orbit their host star quicker...that's how they detect planets, they see a Star's total emitted light drop by a tiny fraction of a percentage point once the planet crosses it. There are other method too though...
Anyhow more Gas Giants like Jupiter and Calpamos will be discovered in the future as these have huge orbits of 20-200+ years or more...so have to be patient.
Engineer, you think they're might be a formed gas giant 3-7x bigger than Jupiter out there? 10x is really pushing it for a formed Gas Giant. I like that saying "formed" to differentiate them from hot jupiters or semi brown dwarves, etc..
It's also amazing when you think about the size of stars..can you imagine the ones that are 1500x bigger than our Sun...insane...whole other subject though.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 03:20:52 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 14, 2016, 02:45:18 PMthe gravity of LV-426 (Acheron) is about .86 of Earth's, this hints at a very dense metal core,
This has long been my fanon rationalization as well. As I've stated over and over, it must have something exotic worth mining or else the company wouldn't bother co-financing a colony there.
The problem is that it's not enough to account for the gravity if it's only 1200km.
Earth has a very dense metal core, and it's 10x the size of LV426's supposed size.
In order to be 1200km and have a gravity of .86, it would need to be entirely composed of (as in, not just the core, but 100% of the planet) a material that is so dense that not only is it not on the periodic table of elements, but it would have a half-life in the fractions of a second. And if only "the core" is made of this magical mystery substance while the rest of the planet is made of something recognizable, then the core's material needs to be
even more impossibly dense to account for the gravity.
Oh, and it would be radioactive as all shit.
You wouldn't be able to mine this mystery substance due to its density, not to mention the only way for it to exist is for it to be artificially created. Beyond that, its discovery would be the scientific find of the century - to find an entire dwarf planet made up (or even partially made up) of a seemingly stable form of an element heretofore undiscovered would be monumental. You'd have science teams swarming all over it,
Solaris-style, not ignored for decades and then eventually colonized by a bunch of miners.
There's this huge laundry list of requirements for LV426 to be 1200km, none of which the movie even comes close to showing (or outright contradicts). You have to bend over backwards and jump through dozens of hoops to reconcile what Lambert says with what the movie shows us, as opposed to taking the Tech Manual's really easy and obvious solution: "Lambert mis-spoke". And that solution even lines up with the rest of the things Lambert says about the planet.
Remind me again why you're so doggedly attached to Lambert's line from a deleted scene? William Ockham is spinning in his grave. :D
Quote from: SM on Sep 15, 2016, 04:52:44 AM
There's a passing comment to that effect in the novelisation.
That's just another nail in the coffin, the core can't be made of merely conventional metal and still have the gravity described.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 10:30:47 AM
Nice to know you like Exoplanetology Engineer! I really didn't want to get into the brown dwarf discussiom so as to keep it from going overboard that's why I was just stopping at "it will collapse". That's what's good about Astronomy you can write a whole book on just one topic...
It makes sense that so many hot jupiters have been discovered since they orbit their host star quicker...that's how they detect planets, they see a Star's total emitted light drop by a tiny fraction of a percentage point once the planet crosses it. There are other method too though...
Anyhow more Gas Giants like Jupiter and Calpamos will be discovered in the future as these have huge orbits of 20-200+ years or more...so have to be patient.
Engineer, you think they're might be a formed gas giant 3-7x bigger than Jupiter out there? 10x is really pushing it for a formed Gas Giant. I like that saying "formed" to differentiate them from hot jupiters or semi brown dwarves, etc..
It's also amazing when you think about the size of stars..can you imagine the ones that are 1500x bigger than our Sun...insane...whole other subject though.
Yea honestly, brown dwarfs are my favorite. They're so bizarre!
I think it's fair to say a large size gas giant might exist, but it's density would be low, a lot like saturn's, otherwise it would shift into brown dwarf territory. Ultimately, I'd say it's too early to tell, and we'll have to wait and see what other interesting planets get discovered in the years to come. Also, we've all be talking about calpamos as if it were a gas giant; it looks like a gas giant, but it could be an ice giant which might have different factors at work that impact it's size/density. It's all fun to think about and rationalize, but ultimately I think the movies just don't give us enough information to say difinitively what calpamos really is.
The same is true for moons, for that matter. We have yet to discover exomoons, but the moons in our own solar system are all so unique from one another. There's no telling what's possible there!
When it comes to rocky planets and moons though, I did read a really interesting paper about the size of the planet/moon and it's habitability. If the planet is too small, the molten core will eventually cool and solidify effectively shutting off the magnetosphere. Without the magnetosphere solar winds would whisk away any atmosphere which is what happened/is happening to Mars. Earth is just the right size, our gravity is strong enough to generate heat from friction at our core keeping it molten, and allowing the magnetosphere to stay on. Go any larger, like 'super-earths,' the magnetosphere also stays on but geological activity and volcanism become too promenant and would likely result in a toxic atmosphere or a run away greenhouse gas effect. That's all theoretical though; we can't see the super-earths well enough to tell if that's true or not.
But that raises an interesting question about lv-426 though! Whether you believe it's 1,200 km or 12,000 km, it's too small to sustain a magnetosphere, so how does it retain its atmosphere well enough to make terraforming a worthwhile venture? I have a rationalization for that: calpamos generates a strong magnetsphere a lot like Jupiter does, and lv-426 must orbit close enough to get some protection from calpamos's magnetosphere. That's one of my fan-theories though, I dunno if anyone else thinks that way about too or not. Lol
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 15, 2016, 01:47:11 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 03:20:52 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 14, 2016, 02:45:18 PMthe gravity of LV-426 (Acheron) is about .86 of Earth's, this hints at a very dense metal core,
I think everyone here agrees that it's quite impossible for any of the moons to be 1,200km in diamater at this point. SM, can we call Fox and ask them for the size of Calpamos and its moons, or will they transfer us to an Asylum?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 15, 2016, 01:47:11 PM
You wouldn't be able to mine this mystery substance due to its density, not to mention the only way for it to exist is for it to be artificially created. Beyond that, its discovery would be the scientific find of the century - to find an entire dwarf planet made up (or even partially made up) of a seemingly stable form of an element heretofore undiscovered would be monumental. You'd have science teams swarming all over it, Solaris-style, not ignored for decades and then eventually colonized by a bunch of miners.
Sure.
If it was the first of its kind to be discovered. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe the company found planet(oid)s just like it all over the galaxy and it's not a new discovery. Maybe Thedus is one of them.
Maybe it's old hat, just like the "monumental" scientific discovery that the capability to travel faster than the speed of light must have been.
Still waiting for a list of all the things the CMTM got right. I admit that it's an entertaining read, but an accurate source of information from the films it's not.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 06:12:05 PM
I think everyone here agrees that it's quite impossible for any of the moons to be 1,200km in diamater at this point. SM, can we call Fox and ask them for the size of Calpamos and its moons, or will they transfer us to an Asylum?
Speak for yourself. I'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 15, 2016, 03:10:29 PM
Yea honestly, brown dwarfs are my favorite. They're so bizarre!
Yes, love those Brown Dwarves too, have you read about these new black dwarves lol! "A black dwarf is a white dwarf that has cooled down to the temperature of the cosmic microwave background, and so is invisible. Unlike red dwarfs, brown dwarfs, and white dwarfs, black dwarfs are entirely hypothetical."
https://www.google.ca/#q=black+dwarf+star
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 15, 2016, 03:10:29 PM
I think it's fair to say a large size gas giant might exist, but it's density would be low, a lot like saturn's, otherwise it would shift into brown dwarf territory. Ultimately, I'd say it's too early to tell, and we'll have to wait and see what other interesting planets get discovered in the years to come. Also, we've all be talking about calpamos as if it were a gas giant; it looks like a gas giant, but it could be an ice giant which might have different factors at work that impact it's size/density. It's all fun to think about and rationalize, but ultimately I think the movies just don't give us enough information to say difinitively what calpamos really is.
The same is true for moons, for that matter. We have yet to discover exomoons, but the moons in our own solar system are all so unique from one another. There's no telling what's possible there!
When it comes to rocky planets and moons though, I did read a really interesting paper about the size of the planet/moon and it's habitability. If the planet is too small, the molten core will eventually cool and solidify effectively shutting off the magnetosphere. Without the magnetosphere solar winds would whisk away any atmosphere which is what happened/is happening to Mars. Earth is just the right size, our gravity is strong enough to generate heat from friction at our core keeping it molten, and allowing the magnetosphere to stay on. Go any larger, like 'super-earths,' the magnetosphere also stays on but geological activity and volcanism become too promenant and would likely result in a toxic atmosphere or a run away greenhouse gas effect. That's all theoretical though; we can't see the super-earths well enough to tell if that's true or not.
But that raises an interesting question about lv-426 though! Whether you believe it's 1,200 km or 12,000 km, it's too small to sustain a magnetosphere, so how does it retain its atmosphere well enough to make terraforming a worthwhile venture? I have a rationalization for that: calpamos generates a strong magnetsphere a lot like Jupiter does, and lv-426 must orbit close enough to get some protection from calpamos's magnetosphere. That's one of my fan-theories though, I dunno if anyone else thinks that way about too or not. Lol
It's crazy how everything is attached to everything else like one big domino effect. Also, how lucky we are to be actually living...as if everythign went the way it did just so there can be life...
Have you ever heard about this game called Sim Earth?
The game models the Gaia hypothesis of James Lovelock. One of my all time favorite games of the early 90's.
https://www.google.ca/#q=sim+earth
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 06:54:19 PM
Speak for yourself. I'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.
How do you deal with what Xenomorph pointed out though?
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 15, 2016, 03:10:29 PM
The problem is that it's not enough to account for the gravity if it's only 1200km. Earth has a very dense metal core, and it's 10x the size of LV426's supposed size.
In order to be 1200km and have a gravity of .86, it would need to be entirely composed of (as in, not just the core, but 100% of the planet) a material that is so dense that not only is it not on the periodic table of elements, but it would have a half-life in the fractions of a second. And if only "the core" is made of this magical mystery substance while the rest of the planet is made of something recognizable, then the core's material needs to be even more impossibly dense to account for the gravity.
Oh, and it would be radioactive as all shit.
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 15, 2016, 03:10:29 PM
Beyond that, its discovery would be the scientific find of the century - to find an entire dwarf planet made up (or even partially made up) of a seemingly stable form of an element heretofore undiscovered would be monumental. You'd have science teams swarming all over it, Solaris-style, not ignored for decades and then eventually colonized by a bunch of miners.
Thinking about it even more, maybe that's why they really wanted to terraform this planet? I don't know, I'm done with this lol, will just sit back and wait for more information from "the company". Transmission out lol.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 06:54:19 PM
Speak for yourself. I'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.
How do you deal with what Xenomorph pointed out though?
I thought my previous post covered that.
Clearly it would have to be some exotic material that either doesn't exist in nature or is something we haven't discovered yet. Like that crap (http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Unobtanium) from Avatar that made Pandora so valuable to the RDA (http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Resources_Development_Administration).
As an astronomy buff, can you provide an alternate explanation for why we'd go so far away from our own solar system to mine
anything?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 07:21:57 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 06:54:19 PM
Speak for yourself. I'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.
How do you deal with what Xenomorph pointed out though?
I thought my previous post covered that.
Clearly it would have to be some exotic material that either doesn't exist in nature or is something we haven't discovered yet. Like that crap (http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Unobtanium) from Avatar that made Pandora so valuable to the RDA (http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Resources_Development_Administration).
As an astronomy buff, can you provide an alternate explanation for why we'd go so far away from our own solar system to mine anything?
To gather Alien Science & technology or for something really precious to the company that's worth going there for (One of a kind mineral, vast amounts of something really rare). My understanding has always been that the colonists were sent there on purpose to be studied upon, after they interact with the xenomorphs. Especially after they got a call from the company to go visit that quadrant on the map. (In the special edition).
The ECA established the colony there and Weyland-Yutani co-financed it against mineral rights. Even if the company still had knowledge of the derelict's presence, it wouldn't factor into their
official reasons for being there.
Besides, Hadley's Hope had been there for over 20 years. Do you really think it was part of some sort of long con?
And in case you misunderstood my question:
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 07:21:57 PMAs an astronomy buff, can you provide an alternate explanation for why we'd go so far away from our own solar system to mine anything?
Our own solar system has such an abundance of minerals (http://www.space.com/2032-asteroid-mining-key-space-economy.html) that we shouldn't ever have to venture light-years abroad in order to obtain any that we currently know of.
QuoteProfessor John Lewis has pointed out (in Mining the Sky) that the resources of the solar system (the most accessible of which being those in the NEAs) can permanently support in first-world comfort some quadrillion people. In other words, the resources of the solar system are essentially infinite...
Earth could have reached a point where resources can no longer be produced. In order to get the immense amount of resources that humanity requires they may have to look to distant planets rich in the resources needed.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Sep 15, 2016, 08:03:39 PM
Earth could have reached a point where resources can no longer be produced. In order to get the immense amount of resources that humanity requires they may have to look to distant planets rich in the resources needed.
Agreed, on the condition that said resources can't be found in our own solar system. See the link I posted above.
QuoteMy understanding has always been that the colonists were sent there on purpose to be studied upon, after they interact with the xenomorphs.
This is not the case.
QuoteI'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.
No need really. It's in print now.
Quote from: SM on Sep 15, 2016, 09:39:36 PM
QuoteI'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.
No need really. It's in print now.
But CMTM! :laugh:
I don't believe it's a competition.
Neither do I, but it's apparent to me that the CMTM is still considered authoritative by a segment of the fanbase (albeit a small one).
As I understand it the two dont share much in common, other than a disagreement about the size of lv426
The CMTM also implies the derelict survived Aliens intact.
If that doesn't constitute a major discrepancy between the two, I don't know what would.
There are a number of errors in it, but I'm sure LBW made it as accurate as he could at the time.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 10:17:21 PMThe CMTM also implies the derelict survived Aliens intact.
If that doesn't constitute a major discrepancy between the two, I don't know what would.
Resurrection hadn't even been made yet. You can hardly criticise the author for not being able to see into the future.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 07:57:45 PM
The ECA established the colony there and Weyland-Yutani co-financed it against mineral rights. Even if the company still had knowledge of the derelict's presence, it wouldn't factor into their official reasons for being there.
Besides, Hadley's Hope had been there for over 20 years. Do you really think it was part of some sort of long con?
And in case you misunderstood my question:
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 07:21:57 PMAs an astronomy buff, can you provide an alternate explanation for why we'd go so far away from our own solar system to mine anything?
Our own solar system has such an abundance of minerals (http://www.space.com/2032-asteroid-mining-key-space-economy.html) that we shouldn't ever have to venture light-years abroad in order to obtain any that we currently know of.
QuoteProfessor John Lewis has pointed out (in Mining the Sky) that the resources of the solar system (the most accessible of which being those in the NEAs) can permanently support in first-world comfort some quadrillion people. In other words, the resources of the solar system are essentially infinite...
Ah ok, I see now, was busy with work before, so I missed the mining part.
"As an astronomy buff, can you provide an alternate explanation for why we'd go so far away from our own solar system to mine anything?"
Ok, here's a few reasons off the top of my head..because we are always discovering new minerals & elements from the periodic table, such as when studying certain Asteroids found on Earth. Some might end up having game changing properties. Or like I said earlier, perhaps a huge concentration of rare ones on a planet. For example there are planets made of almost 100% diamond. Already planetary scientists can tell certain exoplanet's mineral and atmospheric composition, I can only imagine how easy this will have become in 10-50 years+. I think that's a good enough reason. Either that or Alien technology or Alien biology useful for biotechnology and maybe nanotechnology
Also, his website lists various descriptions on why they are on certains planets for...
http://www.projectprometheus.com/newworlds/ scroll upwards.
KOI-2770.01: IZVINITE OUTPOST
TERRAFORMED
2063 - 2069
ESTABLISHED
2069
NOTES
Massive quantities of Palladium likely due to collision with a mineral rich asteroid millions of years ago
KOI-1404.01: ARCHIMEDES COLONY
TERRAFORMED
2063 - 2069
ESTABLISHED
2069
NOTES
Vast Lithium deposits
KOI-898.03: FEBRUARY OUTPOST
TERRAFORMED
2063 - 2069
ESTABLISHED
2069
NOTES
In 2062, traces of
alien bacteria discovered in the polar region
POL-3191 BB: COREN
TERRAFORMED
N/A
ESTABLISHED
Discovered: 2071
NOTES
Coren appears to possess at least 2 unique micro-organisms - the first time multiple types of alien life have been found
Here's some more answers from your company:
DISCOVERY OF THE OUTER VEIL
Weyland astronomers note an area of space appearing very rich in minerals and other natural resources. Weyland expected to travel there within the century.
DECEMBER 21, 2037
BALLISTIC DEVELOPMENT
Weyland creates new 5.56 millimeter round made of metals mined from the circumstellar habitable zone planets orbiting within Gliese 581 capable of traveling at max velocity in any atmosphere at any range.
JULY 4, 2033
WEYLAND TAKES OVER KEPLER MISSION ;D
Weyland privatizes NASA's famous Kepler mission, increases its funding 10-fold and within the year discovers 6,546 more bio-compatible planets.
NOVEMBER 18, 2026
https://www.weylandindustries.com/timeline
Quote from: SM on Sep 15, 2016, 10:28:34 PM
There are a number of errors in it, but I'm sure LBW made it as accurate as he could at the time.
That's very kind. Were the errors unavoidable with the source material that was available at the time?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 15, 2016, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 10:17:21 PMThe CMTM also implies the derelict survived Aliens intact.
If that doesn't constitute a major discrepancy between the two, I don't know what would.
Resurrection hadn't even been made yet. You can hardly criticise the author for not being able to see into the future.
Granted and conceded.
QuoteWere the errors unavoidable with the source material that was available at the time?
Some. Even having to use paused VHS stills of Aliens for reference, the size of the Sulaco was a long way off. And LV-426 is described as having no discernable tectonic activity despite the geysers seen in Alien and a lava flow damaging the Derelict.
'Thedus' was referenced in shooting scripts (harder to come by back then), but was also referenced in the novelisation (not difficult to come by).
Even with an enormous amount of effort, mistakes still happen.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 10:43:56 PMOk, here's a few reasons off the top of my head..because we are always discovering new minerals & elements from the periodic table, such as when studying certain Asteroids found on Earth. Some might end up having game changing properties. Or like I said earlier, perhaps a huge concentration of rare ones on a planet. For example there are planets made of almost 100% diamond.
Agreed, but that timeline is riddled with anachronisms that conflict with the films.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 12:36:26 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 10:43:56 PMOk, here's a few reasons off the top of my head..because we are always discovering new minerals & elements from the periodic table, such as when studying certain Asteroids found on Earth. Some might end up having game changing properties. Or like I said earlier, perhaps a huge concentration of rare ones on a planet. For example there are planets made of almost 100% diamond.
Agreed, but that timeline is riddled with anachronisms that conflict with the films.
Oh, ok. I'll be here if you come up with another question lol.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 16, 2016, 12:42:30 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 12:36:26 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 10:43:56 PMOk, here's a few reasons off the top of my head..because we are always discovering new minerals & elements from the periodic table, such as when studying certain Asteroids found on Earth. Some might end up having game changing properties. Or like I said earlier, perhaps a huge concentration of rare ones on a planet. For example there are planets made of almost 100% diamond.
Agreed, but that timeline is riddled with anachronisms that conflict with the films.
Oh, ok. I'll be here if you come up with another question lol.
I think it's funny that the timeline authors specifically mentioned palladium and lithium as minerals that would justify extrasolar mining operations considering how much of both could be found a lot closer to home. James Cameron himself seems to understand how rich our solar system is as well.
Asteroid Mining Venture Backed by Google Execs, James Cameron Unveiled (http://www.space.com/15395-asteroid-mining-planetary-resources.html)
QuoteAnd there are a lot of precious metals up there waiting to be mined. A single platinum-rich space rock 1,650 feet (500 meters) wide contains the equivalent of all the platinum-group metals ever mined throughout human history, company officials said.
I do appreciate the effort you put into doing all that research though. Good show. :)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 12:50:54 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 16, 2016, 12:42:30 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 12:36:26 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 15, 2016, 10:43:56 PMOk, here's a few reasons off the top of my head..because we are always discovering new minerals & elements from the periodic table, such as when studying certain Asteroids found on Earth. Some might end up having game changing properties. Or like I said earlier, perhaps a huge concentration of rare ones on a planet. For example there are planets made of almost 100% diamond.
Agreed, but that timeline is riddled with anachronisms that conflict with the films.
Oh, ok. I'll be here if you come up with another question lol.
I think it's funny that the timeline authors specifically mentioned palladium and lithium as minerals that would justify extrasolar mining operations considering how much of both could be found a lot closer to home. James Cameron himself seems to understand how rich our solar system is as well.
Asteroid Mining Venture Backed by Google Execs, James Cameron Unveiled (http://www.space.com/15395-asteroid-mining-planetary-resources.html)
QuoteAnd there are a lot of precious metals up there waiting to be mined. A single platinum-rich space rock 1,650 feet (500 meters) wide contains the equivalent of all the platinum-group metals ever mined throughout human history, company officials said.
I do appreciate the effort you put into doing all that research though. Good show. :)
lol thx. Btw, I thought about that too, when I saw palladium...I was like pah! Bah palladium...but you never know if one day we invent some type of killer app that requires a lot of it...maybe in Android applications...I know a few years ago Titanium & Tungsten had huge demand and the prices skyrocketed on the stock market...it's also Sci Fi..so I keep an open mind...even if it's that puny palladium from D&D lol.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 16, 2016, 01:13:33 AM
lol thx. Btw, I thought about that too, when I saw palladium...I was like pah! Bah palladium...but you never know if one day we invent some type of killer app that requires a lot of it...maybe in Android applications...
Or a Dyson sphere. :laugh:
Nostromo- no I've never heard of black dwarfs! Thanks for sharing! :-)
I can think of a reason or two to travel so far beyond our solar system to mine. Perhaps they are mining for specific isotopes of specific elements. That would potentially make the material far more difficult to come by. For example, helium-3 is very rare on earth but a lot more abundant on the moon. There's some longer term plans to eventually mine/harvest helium-3 from the moon, because it is a strong candidate for clean nuclear fuel (meaning no left over radiological waste). Could be that they're mining some rare isotope with a high demand, rather than some hypothetical element like "unobtanium." Maybe it's the fuel source for FTL travel, which would explain the high demand, too.
But what if lv-426 isn't actually a mining operation at all!? What if it's meant to be an outpost mid-way between earth and thedus? I know the company co-financed the colony for mining rights, but that could mean the rights they seek relate to transit routs between earth and thedus, or some other mining operation. The benefits of having an outpost mid-way might be to allow crops or livestock to be grown and transported to thedus much more easily (I'm sure lv-426 would have required a greenhouse or something to grow crops; just thinking outside the box a little). But in general, offer a place to refuel or restock while on the way to the final destination.
Why would they need to refuel or restock between Sol and Thedus?
Quote from: SM on Sep 16, 2016, 02:24:49 AM
Why would they need to refuel or restock between Sol and Thedus?
If there's a reason to not be in hyper sleep during the trip. Lol
Honestly, I was Primarily thinking that restocking would be better for thedus. It'd be more desirable to travel half way back to earth to get supplies rather than all the way...
How do you know Thedus isn't a fully terraformed, fully self-sustaining colony world in its own right? If it's such a treasure trove of mineral ore, it seems to me that Weyland-Yutani would have started there long before turning its attention to LV-426.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 02:53:46 AM
How do you know Thedus isn't a fully terraformed, fully self-sustaining colony world in its own right? If it's such a treasure trove of mineral ore, it seems to me that Weyland-Yutani would have started there long before turning their attention to LV-426.
Truth is, I don't know that... But to give a possible reason why it might not be: perhaps it's toxic or something. Do we know anything about the thedus system? What if it's a planet nearby or orbiting a pulsar (that scenario exists), which floods radiation over the system. If that were the case no terraforming of thedus could ever possibly happen and that radiation bombardment could also be what creates an abundance of an otherwise rare isotope being mined there...
Again this is all just made up speculation on my part.
And would require some pretty heavy duty radiation shields to even mine in the first place! Lol
You may be right. For all we know, Thedus could be like Fiorina. Bottom line is we don't know much of anything about it besides its approximate distance from Earth.
QuoteHonestly, I was Primarily thinking that restocking would be better for thedus. It'd be more desirable to travel half way back to earth to get supplies rather than all the way...
Fair enough.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 03:11:45 AM
You may be right. For all we know, Thedus could be like Fiorina. Bottom line is we don't know much of anything about it besides its approximate distance from Earth.
Do you have any rationales for why we'd ever mine that far away? Or decide to setup a colony on a rock like lv-426? Just curious if you have your own theories or ideas about it...
... Personally, I had never really thought about it until now! :-)
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 16, 2016, 03:14:56 AMDo you have any rationales for why we'd ever mine that far away?
Nothing specific. As I've stated over and over, it must have something exotic worth mining or else the company wouldn't bother co-financing a colony there.
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 16, 2016, 03:14:56 AMOr decide to setup a colony on a rock like lv-426? Just curious if you have your own theories or ideas about it...
Real estate will always be valuable and extraterrestrial colonization is considered by many to be crucial to the survival of our species (http://www.space.com/20657-stephen-hawking-humanity-survival-space.html). That's presumably why the ECA exists in the Alienverse.
As for why they'd bother with a rock like LV-426, I suppose it's because it met certain criteria that made it suitable for terraforming. We need more than a breathable atmosphere in order to live somewhere. Gravity, temperature and the availability of water are also important considerations.
Or... Maybe they're mining for trimonite ;-)
(Totally looked that up on xenopedia; I was curious about lv-178 and if it's location is specified... Still haven't actually read those books :-/ just listened to the one audio drama).
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 03:25:02 AM
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 16, 2016, 03:14:56 AMDo you have any rationales for why we'd ever mine that far away?
Nothing specific. As I've stated over and over, it must have something exotic worth mining or else the company wouldn't bother co-financing a colony there.
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 16, 2016, 03:14:56 AMOr decide to setup a colony on a rock like lv-426? Just curious if you have your own theories or ideas about it...
Real estate will always be valuable and extraterrestrial colonization is considered by many to be crucial to the survival of our species (http://www.space.com/20657-stephen-hawking-humanity-survival-space.html). That's presumably why the ECA exists in the Alienverse.
As for why they'd bother with a rock like LV-426, I suppose it's because it met certain criteria that made it suitable for terraforming. We need more than a breathable atmosphere in order to live somewhere. Gravity, temperature and the availability of water are also important considerations.
Gotchya
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 16, 2016, 03:14:56 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 03:11:45 AM
You may be right. For all we know, Thedus could be like Fiorina. Bottom line is we don't know much of anything about it besides its approximate distance from Earth.
Do you have any rationales for why we'd ever mine that far away? Or decide to setup a colony on a rock like lv-426? Just curious if you have your own theories or ideas about it...
... Personally, I had never really thought about it until now! :-)
What if Weyland Yutani got so filthy rich with its Android monopoly and other industries, that it stopped caring about money as much...and instead went on an exploration and expansion run... just throwing ideas don't shoot me lol.
Or maybe they found some type of Alien tech that led them to the planets they are at and setting mining posts as fronts or to make money to fund their exploration. It is kind of crazy to go so deep in space for palladium and other minerals...
Maybe Weyland wrote in his will this was the direction he wanted the companyto take and left someone close to him and his ideas as CEO..
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 06:54:19 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 15, 2016, 01:47:11 PM
You wouldn't be able to mine this mystery substance due to its density, not to mention the only way for it to exist is for it to be artificially created. Beyond that, its discovery would be the scientific find of the century - to find an entire dwarf planet made up (or even partially made up) of a seemingly stable form of an element heretofore undiscovered would be monumental. You'd have science teams swarming all over it, Solaris-style, not ignored for decades and then eventually colonized by a bunch of miners.
Sure.
If it was the first of its kind to be discovered. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe the company found planet(oid)s just like it all over the galaxy and it's not a new discovery. Maybe Thedus is one of them.
Maybe it's old hat, just like the "monumental" scientific discovery that the capability to travel faster than the speed of light must have been.
You'd think any of the movies (or anything else) would indicate that, then. Even a throwaway line like "oh, another world made of Unobtanium". But instead we don't just get nothing, we get information that directly contradicts it: a hundred colonists sent to mine something conventional, and a planet described as having "a metal core".
QuoteStill waiting for a list of all the things the CMTM got right. I admit that it's an entertaining read, but an accurate source of information from the films it's not.
And I'm still waiting for an answer on that PM I sent you. I guess we'll both keep waiting. :)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 08:05:56 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Sep 15, 2016, 08:03:39 PM
Earth could have reached a point where resources can no longer be produced. In order to get the immense amount of resources that humanity requires they may have to look to distant planets rich in the resources needed.
Agreed, on the condition that said resources can't be found in our own solar system. See the link I posted above.
Who says things being mined on other planets are all being shipped to Earth? Sure the Nostromo was tugging stuff from Thedus to Earth, but that doesn't mean *all* mining eventually goes to Earth. Perhaps it goes to support other colonies elsewhere? Logistics is rarely a one-way street.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 10:10:46 PM
Neither do I, but it's apparent to me that the CMTM is still considered authoritative by a segment of the fanbase (albeit a small one).
Quite a bit more than "a small one", the CMTM gets regularly referenced by other materials that come out (including the WYR, as mentioned). Hell, the recent Aliens pinball table references it, as do the NECA "Cinemachines" packaging. I think you're drastically underselling the impact the CMTM has had on "the lore", simply because you're biased against it. :D
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 03:25:02 AM
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 16, 2016, 03:14:56 AMDo you have any rationales for why we'd ever mine that far away?
Nothing specific. As I've stated over and over, it must have something exotic worth mining or else the company wouldn't bother co-financing a colony there.
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 16, 2016, 03:14:56 AMOr decide to setup a colony on a rock like lv-426? Just curious if you have your own theories or ideas about it...
Real estate will always be valuable and extraterrestrial colonization is considered by many to be crucial to the survival of our species (http://www.space.com/20657-stephen-hawking-humanity-survival-space.html). That's presumably why the ECA exists in the Alienverse.
As for why they'd bother with a rock like LV-426, I suppose it's because it met certain criteria that made it suitable for terraforming. We need more than a breathable atmosphere in order to live somewhere. Gravity, temperature and the availability of water are also important considerations.
The mining could merely be a side project, with the colony's overarching long-term purpose being as a stepping-stone to even more colonization - "real estate" like you mentioned. Mining could merely be a means to offset the costs, as well as giving the colonists something to do in the long term as they reproduce.
Which leads to a bit of another problem with LV-426 and LV-223 being in the same system: based on what we see of each in the movies, one of them is much, much more appealing for colonization than the other, and it ain't LV-426. :P
Forgive me for missing the beginning of this debate, but why is there a discussion about whether lv-223 and lv-426 are in the same system? Does it say they are in one of the books or something? I'd imagine if its stated anywhere it would have been "fire and stone" or the weyland-yutani report...
Quote from: 426Buddy on Sep 16, 2016, 04:26:00 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 04:13:56 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 16, 2016, 03:29:09 AM
Gotchya
How so?
I think he means that he understands what you're saying. Not that he "got you" somehow.
Yea, sorry, that's what I meant... I understand. Didn't mean to cause any confusion. Haha
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 16, 2016, 02:44:05 PM
Forgive me for missing the beginning of this debate, but why is there a discussion about whether lv-223 and lv-426 are in the same system? Does it say they are in one of the books or something? I'd imagine if its stated anywhere it would have been "fire and stone" or the weyland-yutani report...
WYR, Fire & Stone and the Prometheus Blu-ray content all say they're in the same system, orbiting the same planet.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 16, 2016, 04:23:31 AMYou'd think any of the movies (or anything else) would indicate that, then. Even a throwaway line like "oh, another world made of Unobtanium". But instead we don't just get nothing, we get information that directly contradicts it: a hundred colonists sent to mine something conventional, and a planet described as having "a metal core".
When was it ever stated that the colonists were there to mine something conventional? Why do you assume that a planetoid full of unobtanium would be any more noteworthy among a crew of 22nd century space truckers than the miracle of FTL space travel is? What you and I consider amazing today could be relatively mundane to our descendants a hundred years from now.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 16, 2016, 04:23:31 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 10:10:46 PMNeither do I, but it's apparent to me that the CMTM is still considered authoritative by a segment of the fanbase (albeit a small one).
Quite a bit more than "a small one", the CMTM gets regularly referenced by other materials that come out (including the WYR, as mentioned). Hell, the recent Aliens pinball table references it, as do the NECA "Cinemachines" packaging. I think you're drastically underselling the impact the CMTM has had on "the lore", simply because you're biased against it. :D
Fair enough.
However, I don't consider myself biased against it so much as I don't take it as an authoritative reference due to the mistakes it contains. I no more rely on the CMTM than I would a dictionary full of misspelled words.
Local Trouble and SM what is the name of the 3rd moon or planetoid? We know you know.
Classified?
And why 223 and 426?
They come after 222 and 425 respectively.
Lmao!
I think SM started drinking the Foster's early today. I hear it's powerful stuff.
I assume LV-223 and LV-426 were numbered in the order they were charted and/or surveyed. By noted Italian astrocartographer, Luigi Valentino.
Quote from: SM on Sep 16, 2016, 10:31:32 PM
They come after 222 and 425 respectively.
lol, SM your slacking!
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 01:32:24 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 16, 2016, 01:13:33 AM
lol thx. Btw, I thought about that too, when I saw palladium...I was like pah! Bah palladium...but you never know if one day we invent some type of killer app that requires a lot of it...maybe in Android applications...
Or a Dyson sphere. :laugh:
Nice
Quote from: 426Buddy on Sep 16, 2016, 04:26:00 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 04:13:56 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 16, 2016, 03:29:09 AM
Gotchya
How so?
I think he means that he understands what you're saying. Not that he "got you" somehow.
lol, he's coming to get you man
Look at the pretty planet.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F2m63815.jpg&hash=320815aec05cdc0d133d784684c19df4e561650b)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 09:19:03 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 16, 2016, 04:23:31 AMYou'd think any of the movies (or anything else) would indicate that, then. Even a throwaway line like "oh, another world made of Unobtanium". But instead we don't just get nothing, we get information that directly contradicts it: a hundred colonists sent to mine something conventional, and a planet described as having "a metal core".
When was it ever stated that the colonists were there to mine something conventional? Why do you assume that a planetoid full of unobtanium would be any more noteworthy among a crew of 22nd century space truckers than the miracle of FTL space travel is? What you and I consider amazing today could be relatively mundane to our descendants a hundred years from now.
There's a pretty radical difference between man-made technology becoming commonplace over time (be it powered flight, FTL, SCUBA gear, the smartphone, whatever) and an apparently naturally-occurring phenomenon that flat-out shouldn't exist.
A better example is the Alien itself - there's a reason why people pursue it for study/capture/exploitation so obsessively (be it in the movies, or the EU) and that's because it's a seemingly natural phenomenon that defies all expectations or explanations. It's noteworthy simply by existing, and calls attention to itself because of it.
Likewise, a microplanet with gravity comparable to earth would be similarly noteworthy, but none of the movies or anything else even pay lip-service to how remarkable this would be, not even in the slightest. 'Alien' makes intercepting an extraterrestrial broadcast seem like just something that could happen to anyone, but it's still an unusual and noteworthy event and the Nostromo crew reacts accordingly and acknowledges that it's not the norm.
You're the one claiming LV-426 is made of a magical mystery material, where's the evidence to support it? Why did no characters in any of the movies even mention the planet's remarkable composition? Why did none of the characters mention the planet's size when the Nostromo was landing on it, since landing on small objects is inherently risky? Where is the specialized, heretofore-impossible mining equipment you would use to mine this mystery material that no one bothers to mention (and, as pointed out, would be so dense that you wouldn't be able to mine it, not to mention its infinitesimal half-life)? Where is the radiation shielding to protect colonists or explorers from the ridiculous radiation the planet would be giving off? A small planet made of such a mystery material wouldn't have seismic activity, geysers, or plate tectonics, and yet we see all of these in both movies - how do you address that? 1200km is a third the size of the moon, the curvature of the horizon would be apparent even with the various rock outcroppings - and yet it's not. Why not? The WYR (or anything else) doesn't bother to mention that LV-426 is made of anything out of the ordinary, no matter how "commonplace" it might be in the future - why is that?
Like, I'm getting the vibe that you acknowledge that for LV-426 to be so small, it would have to be made of something weird. But I'm not sure you grasp
how weird it would have to be, or the ramifications of it. I've mentioned it before, but I highly recommend the book 'Solaris' - the whole thing is about the discovery of an "impossible" planet and the ramifications it has on the scientific community, and on humanity at large.
If any source, anywhere, bothered to acknowledge how "impossible" a planet that small is, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. :) A throwaway line where someone says "yeah, tiny LV-426 is made of absurdly-dense Unobtanium, that's why we mine there",
literally anything.
Shit, have the planet be an artificial construct (be it by Space Jockeys/Engineers, or whoever, doesn't matter), then you can handwave the density as "magical technology"
and you get the added awe and mystery of an entire planet that's been artificially created.
Like, there's ways to make the tiny size work, but none of the movies or anything else bother to even acknowledge it (and the CMTM outright addressed it by fixing it). Yeah sure you can say "we are beholden to the source material", but that doesn't mean source material is infallible, or can't fall victim to bad writing or bad science.
It just seems like a lot of bending over backwards and jumping through hoops in order to preserve a throwaway line from a deleted scene, spoken by a fallible human, and contradicted by the visual evidence of two movies.
But hey, to each their own I guess.
Is LV-797 located in the same system as LV-223/426?
I forget about it until now while I was reading the new #4 issue of Prometheus Life & Death.
Found this small description on a website:
LV-797, aka Tartarus, is a WY territory schedule to be terraformed. But it looks a rival company by the name of Seegson (yes!) is prospecting illegally on their grounds. Awesome! For those wondering why I'm geeking out right now, Seegson was the guilty party behind the shenanigans in the brilliant Alien: Isolation. Now we have a nice tie-in between the game and comics universe.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 02:09:41 AM
Is LV-797 located in the same system as LV-223/426?
I forget about it until now while I was reading the new #4 issue Prometheus.
Found this small description on a website:
LV-797, aka Tartarus, is a WY territory schedule to be terraformed. But it looks a rival company by the name of Seegson (yes!) is prospecting illegally on their grounds. Awesome! For those wondering why I'm geeking out right now, Seegson was the guilty party behind the shenanigans in the brilliant Alien: Isolation. Now we have a nice tie-in between the game and comics universe.
We already had a tie-in between the comics and the game - Amanda Ripley cameos in 'Aliens: Defiance' #1 if I remember right. :)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 02:15:12 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 02:09:41 AM
Is LV-797 located in the same system as LV-223/426?
I forget about it until now while I was reading the new #4 issue Prometheus.
Found this small description on a website:
LV-797, aka Tartarus, is a WY territory schedule to be terraformed. But it looks a rival company by the name of Seegson (yes!) is prospecting illegally on their grounds. Awesome! For those wondering why I'm geeking out right now, Seegson was the guilty party behind the shenanigans in the brilliant Alien: Isolation. Now we have a nice tie-in between the game and comics universe.
We already had a tie-in between the comics and the game - Amanda Ripley cameos in 'Aliens: Defiance' #1 if I remember right. :)
Yeah, this is an old review of Predator Life & Death #1. I think this came out a few months or weeks before Aliens: Defiance.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 02:06:20 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 16, 2016, 09:19:03 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 16, 2016, 04:23:31 AMYou'd think any of the movies (or anything else) would indicate that, then. Even a throwaway line like "oh, another world made of Unobtanium". But instead we don't just get nothing, we get information that directly contradicts it: a hundred colonists sent to mine something conventional, and a planet described as having "a metal core".
When was it ever stated that the colonists were there to mine something conventional? Why do you assume that a planetoid full of unobtanium would be any more noteworthy among a crew of 22nd century space truckers than the miracle of FTL space travel is? What you and I consider amazing today could be relatively mundane to our descendants a hundred years from now.
There's a pretty radical difference between man-made technology becoming commonplace over time (be it powered flight, FTL, SCUBA gear, the smartphone, whatever) and an apparently naturally-occurring phenomenon that flat-out shouldn't exist.
A better example is the Alien itself - there's a reason why people pursue it for study/capture/exploitation so obsessively (be it in the movies, or the EU) and that's because it's a seemingly natural phenomenon that defies all expectations or explanations. It's noteworthy simply by existing, and calls attention to itself because of it.
Likewise, a microplanet with gravity comparable to earth would be similarly noteworthy, but none of the movies or anything else even pay lip-service to how remarkable this would be, not even in the slightest. 'Alien' makes intercepting an extraterrestrial broadcast seem like just something that could happen to anyone, but it's still an unusual and noteworthy event and the Nostromo crew reacts accordingly and acknowledges that it's not the norm.
You're the one claiming LV-426 is made of a magical mystery material, where's the evidence to support it? Why did no characters in any of the movies even mention the planet's remarkable composition? Why did none of the characters mention the planet's size when the Nostromo was landing on it, since landing on small objects is inherently risky? Where is the specialized, heretofore-impossible mining equipment you would use to mine this mystery material that no one bothers to mention (and, as pointed out, would be so dense that you wouldn't be able to mine it, not to mention its infinitesimal half-life)? Where is the radiation shielding to protect colonists or explorers from the ridiculous radiation the planet would be giving off? A small planet made of such a mystery material wouldn't have seismic activity, geysers, or plate tectonics, and yet we see all of these in both movies - how do you address that? 1200km is a third the size of the moon, the curvature of the horizon would be apparent even with the various rock outcroppings - and yet it's not. Why not? The WYR (or anything else) doesn't bother to mention that LV-426 is made of anything out of the ordinary, no matter how "commonplace" it might be in the future - why is that?
Like, I'm getting the vibe that you acknowledge that for LV-426 to be so small, it would have to be made of something weird. But I'm not sure you grasp how weird it would have to be, or the ramifications of it. I've mentioned it before, but I highly recommend the book 'Solaris' - the whole thing is about the discovery of an "impossible" planet and the ramifications it has on the scientific community, and on humanity at large.
If any source, anywhere, bothered to acknowledge how "impossible" a planet that small is, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. :) A throwaway line where someone says "yeah, tiny LV-426 is made of absurdly-dense Unobtanium, that's why we mine there", literally anything.
Shit, have the planet be an artificial construct (be it by Space Jockeys/Engineers, or whoever, doesn't matter), then you can handwave the density as "magical technology" and you get the added awe and mystery of an entire planet that's been artificially created.
Like, there's ways to make the tiny size work, but none of the movies or anything else bother to even acknowledge it (and the CMTM outright addressed it by fixing it). Yeah sure you can say "we are beholden to the source material", but that doesn't mean source material is infallible, or can't fall victim to bad writing or bad science.
It just seems like a lot of bending over backwards and jumping through hoops in order to preserve a throwaway line from a deleted scene, spoken by a fallible human, and contradicted by the visual evidence of two movies.
But hey, to each their own I guess.
Not necessarily.... Check this out:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/superheavy-element-117-island-of-stability/
But I do agree. More likely that lv-426 is larger than smaller and "lambert misspoke" is the explanation I choose.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 02:09:41 AM
Is LV-797 located in the same system as LV-223/426?
I forget about it until now while I was reading the new #4 issue of Prometheus Life & Death.
Found this small description on a website:
LV-797, aka Tartarus, is a WY territory schedule to be terraformed. But it looks a rival company by the name of Seegson (yes!) is prospecting illegally on their grounds. Awesome! For those wondering why I'm geeking out right now, Seegson was the guilty party behind the shenanigans in the brilliant Alien: Isolation. Now we have a nice tie-in between the game and comics universe.
797 is not the same system as 436 and 223. The Engineer ship that leaves 797 takes about a week to get to 223.
Oh and sorry for any spoilers... In fact, STOP reading now if you haven't played alien isolation yet...
But seegson wasn't really behind the shenanigans in isolation, right? I recall the game telling us that WY bought the station from seegson just before Amanda arrived, because they knew the alien was onboard, then they uploaded their special order 937 to all working joes to preserve the specimen.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 02:19:34 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 02:15:12 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 02:09:41 AM
Is LV-797 located in the same system as LV-223/426?
I forget about it until now while I was reading the new #4 issue Prometheus.
Found this small description on a website:
LV-797, aka Tartarus, is a WY territory schedule to be terraformed. But it looks a rival company by the name of Seegson (yes!) is prospecting illegally on their grounds. Awesome! For those wondering why I'm geeking out right now, Seegson was the guilty party behind the shenanigans in the brilliant Alien: Isolation. Now we have a nice tie-in between the game and comics universe.
We already had a tie-in between the comics and the game - Amanda Ripley cameos in 'Aliens: Defiance' #1 if I remember right. :)
Yeah, this is an old review of Predator Life & Death #1. I think this came out a few months or weeks before Aliens: Defiance.
Ohhh my mistake, I didn't realize you were quoting someone else's review. :P
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 17, 2016, 02:23:34 AM
Not necessarily.... Check this out:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/superheavy-element-117-island-of-stability/
While that's a really interesting article, the problem is that "Element 117 is still artificially created. The first paragraph of the article is a bit misleading - it talks about "long lived" elements, but what it's really saying is "long lived
when compared to other similar elements" the rest of the article makes this a bit clearer. You're still talking about artificial, unstable elements with short half-lives and big radioactive output. Not something conducive to mining, or colonization.
Like I said, if LV-426 was an artificial construct, problem solved. But we don't get any indication from any source that this is the case, or that LV-426 is even remarkable in any way.
QuoteBut I do agree. More likely that lv-426 is larger than smaller and "lambert misspoke" is the explanation I choose.
Thanks. :)
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 17, 2016, 02:30:58 AM
Oh and sorry for any spoilers... In fact, STOP reading now if you haven't played alien isolation yet...
Spoiler
But seegson wasn't really behind the shenanigans in isolation, right? I recall the game telling us that WY bought the station from seegson just before Amanda arrived, because they knew the alien was onboard, then they uploaded their special order 937 to all working joes to preserve the specimen.
From memory, some at Seegson sought to profit from it, but no, they weren't involved in any grand conspiracy.
You're right, "stable" compared to other similar artificial elements is still very short lived, however, the stability of heavier elements is ultimately undetermined. They could be a lot more stable. I remember my p. Chem professor talking about this some, many years ago actually... It's an unknown that warrants scientific exploration.
But back to lv 426... I still think it makes more sense that any mining, at lv 426 or elsewhere, would be for some specific rare isotope or this exotic material mentioned in out of the shadows called trimonite.
And lambert misspoke. Haha
Oooor.... Lv-426 is really made of dark matter! Jk :-)
Hey Engineer, I was thinking earlier on what you said. About the possibility of Calpamos being an ice giant instead of a gas giant. I know Neptune and Uranus are both a blue type colored. (I've also seen both through my telescope, 2 very distinct and unique blue round shapes) Are all ice giants colored that way? I can't find any info. It says the methane in the ice giants absorbs the color red. Calpamos also had that nice rusty brown color that Jupiter has.
Also, I can't remember where I read this the other day, it said Calpamos was situated just after the Habitable zone. Do you think an ice giant can form there?
This is all the info I can find on ice giant colors. But is this specifically only for Uranus & Neptune?:
"Clouds of methane absorb red light, giving these planets a cyan colour. Ice giants may or may not have rings."
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2016, 02:27:25 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 02:09:41 AM
Is LV-797 located in the same system as LV-223/426?
I forget about it until now while I was reading the new #4 issue of Prometheus Life & Death.
Found this small description on a website:
LV-797, aka Tartarus, is a WY territory schedule to be terraformed. But it looks a rival company by the name of Seegson (yes!) is prospecting illegally on their grounds. Awesome! For those wondering why I'm geeking out right now, Seegson was the guilty party behind the shenanigans in the brilliant Alien: Isolation. Now we have a nice tie-in between the game and comics universe.
797 is not the same system as 436 and 223. The Engineer ship that leaves 797 takes about a week to get to 223.
Ah :) thx.
PS. Does the WYR specify the size of lv-426? What about lv-223? Lv-178? Fury 161? Does it give the planet an official name, calpamos? I vaguely remember hearing that calpamos was never really the official name...
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 17, 2016, 02:50:00 AM
PS. Does the WYR specify the size of lv-426? What about lv-223? Lv-178? Fury 161? Does it give the planet an official name, calpamos? I vaguely remember hearing that calpamos was never really the official name...
Calpamos seemed to be a fan-name from before 'Aliens: Colonial Marines', and then some of the tie-in materials for A:CM used it and the name stuck. The name just... appeared on the AvP Wiki and no one could provide a source for it, but now it's been retroactively used in official sources. If it wasn't the official name before, it is now. :P
The WYR says LV-426 is 1200km, and LV-223 is 1400km (which is also hilariously, impossibly tiny, and with
that planet we
do get good looks at the horizon in the movie :P :D ). I don't recall Fury 161's size being mentioned. Was LV-178 the planet from Out of the Shadows?
Lambert mistaked the number 7 with a 1. It should read 7,200 km. The number 7's on those model screens looked like 1's. ;D
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 03:00:35 AM
Lambert mistaked the number 7 with a 1. It should read 7,200 km. The number 7's on those model screens looked like 1's.
Alternately, she read 12000 as 1200. That's the explanation the USCM Tech Manual runs with, and in my opinion it's the one that makes the most sense.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 03:02:33 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 03:00:35 AM
Lambert mistaked the number 7 with a 1. It should read 7,200 km. The number 7's on those model screens looked like 1's.
Alternately, she read 12000 as 1200. That's the explanation the USCM Tech Manual runs with, and in my opinion it's the one that makes the most sense.
Wow, if it says that in the Manual, that does make better sense.
Even if Calpamos is "only" as big as Jupiter, it's still possible it caught a planet as big as Earth to be it's moon from what I was reading..plus they made them look huge in the movie Alien and in the Prometheus hologram.
Someone would need to go and research or ask some an Astronomer or a Planetary Scientist if 2-3 huge moons are possible to orbit a gas giant. Bishop should go.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 02:48:03 AM
Hey Engineer, I was thinking earlier on what you said. About the possibility of Calpamos being an ice giant instead of a gas giant. I know Neptune and Uranus are both a blue type colored (I've also seen both through my telescope) are all ice giants colored that way? I can't find any info. It says the methane in the ice giants traps the color red. Calpamos also had that nice rusty brown color that Jupiter has.
Also, I can't remember where I read this the other day, it said Calpamos was situated just after the Habitable zone. Do you think an ice giant can form there.
This is all the info I can find on ice giant colors. But this is specifically only for Uranus & Neptune?
Clouds of methane absorb red light, giving these planets a cyan colour. Ice giants may or may not have rings.
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2016, 02:27:25 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 02:09:41 AM
Is LV-797 located in the same system as LV-223/426?
I forget about it until now while I was reading the new #4 issue of Prometheus Life & Death.
Found this small description on a website:
LV-797, aka Tartarus, is a WY territory schedule to be terraformed. But it looks a rival company by the name of Seegson (yes!) is prospecting illegally on their grounds. Awesome! For those wondering why I'm geeking out right now, Seegson was the guilty party behind the shenanigans in the brilliant Alien: Isolation. Now we have a nice tie-in between the game and comics universe.
797 is not the same system as 436 and 223. The Engineer ship that leaves 797 takes about a week to get to 223.
Ah :) thx.
To be honest with you, ice giants are the ones I know the least about. But I can say that yes they can have rings. Rings are actually very common, just not always as promenant as saturns. In fact, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and even earth all have rings. Earth's ring is artificial and made up of space junk we've launched into orbit. The reason saturns rings are so promenant and stable is due to its many moons. The moons kind of act like sheppard's hearding sheep. The gravity of the passing moons on either side of the rings pushes enough to keep the rings from falling in or flinging away. The moons are also responsible for keeping the rings separate from one another rather than allowing them to merge into one... Calpamos having Saturn-like rings is very believable/possible no matter what type of planet it is.
But I think ice giants can only form at a distance further away than gas giants. It's still the frost region, but deeper into the region. But I'm sure this can vary, it would largely depend on where the required gases are located in the accretion disk when the planet(s) are forming.
And as far as color goes, I dunno, but what you described makes perfect sense based on my understanding of the physics of light! :-)
One last thought, that website that says Calpamos is 117,000km in diameter, is that canon/confirmed...accurate whatever it's called. The diameter of Calpamos was never mentioned in the CMFM or WYR? I should buy these 2 books already...
Specs in CMTM, but not WYR. WYR has 426 and 223.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 02:58:08 AM
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 17, 2016, 02:50:00 AM
PS. Does the WYR specify the size of lv-426? What about lv-223? Lv-178? Fury 161? Does it give the planet an official name, calpamos? I vaguely remember hearing that calpamos was never really the official name...
Calpamos seemed to be a fan-name from before 'Aliens: Colonial Marines', and then some of the tie-in materials for A:CM used it and the name stuck. The name just... appeared on the AvP Wiki and no one could provide a source for it, but now it's been retroactively used in official sources. If it wasn't the official name before, it is now. :P
The WYR says LV-426 is 1200km, and LV-223 is 1400km (which is also hilariously, impossibly tiny, and with that planet we do get good looks at the horizon in the movie :P :D ). I don't recall Fury 161's size being mentioned. Was LV-178 the planet from Out of the Shadows?
Thanks for that. And yea, lv-178 was the planetoid/moon in out of the shadows and sea of sorrows.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 02:32:11 AM
Like I said, if LV-426 was an artificial construct, problem solved. But we don't get any indication from any source that this is the case, or that LV-426 is even remarkable in any way.
Unlike the other moons, LV-426 is an extrasolar capture by ζ2 Ret IV. It's the reason for the rings around Calpamos.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 03:15:35 AM
One last thought, that website that says Calpamos is 117,000km in diameter, is that canon/confirmed...accurate whatever it's called. The diameter of Calpamos was never mentioned in the CMFM or WYR? I should buy these 2 books already...
ACM TM is a free download nowadays if you just search for Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual.pdf its literally the first link in google.
Just trying to think if Lambert said planetoid because it looked big to her?
Copied this from somewhere:
The first minor planet to be discovered was Ceres in 1801. The term minor planet has been used since the 19th century to describe these objects. The term planetoid has also been used, especially for larger (planetary) objects such as those the International Astronomical Union (IAU) has called dwarf planets since 2006. Historically, the terms asteroid, minor planet, and planetoid have been more or less synonymous. This terminology has become more complicated by the discovery of numerous minor planets beyond the orbit of Jupiter, especially trans-Neptunian objects that are generally not considered asteroids. Minor planets seen releasing gas may be dually classified as a comet.
Before 2006, the IAU had officially used the term minor planet. During its 2006 meeting, the IAU reclassified minor planets and comets into dwarf planets and small Solar System bodies (SSSB) Objects are called dwarf planets if their self-gravity is sufficient to achieve hydrostatic equilibrium and form anellipsoidal shape. All other minor planets and comets are called small Solar System bodies. The IAU stated that the term minor planet may still be used, but the term small Solar System body will be preferred. However, for purposes of numbering and naming, the traditional distinction between minor planet and comet is still used.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 03:15:35 AM
One last thought, that website that says Calpamos is 117,000km in diameter, is that canon/confirmed...accurate whatever it's called. The diameter of Calpamos was never mentioned in the CMFM or WYR? I should buy these 2 books already...
As SM mentioned, Calpamos' size is pointed out in the USCM Tech Manual (the book refers to it as "Zeta 2 IV", the 4th planet in the Zeta 2 Reticuli system), but I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head. I can check it in a little bit, though.
The designation LV-426 is not scientifically accurate. I've heard it said it refers to Lima Vector or Lagrange Vector and 3 coordinates to specify which moon of a planetary body you are talking about in vector.
In reality this is not a correct designation (as a myriad of satellites around any planet could have the same three digit number (which isn't a vector in the first place).
The correct astronomical nomenclature for LV-426 would be:
S/2039 (ζ2 Ret IV) 2.
S: for designating a Satellite (Moon)
2039: the year of discovery
(ζ2 Ret IV): The planet it orbits (in this case the fourth planet of Zeta 2 Reticuli)
2: As the 2nd new moon discovered and designated in that year around that planetary body.
After it is named (and providing the planet is named, which it usually is if you've gotten to naming its moon) it would be:
(ζ2 Ret) Calpamos II Acheron
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 03:28:13 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 03:15:35 AM
One last thought, that website that says Calpamos is 117,000km in diameter, is that canon/confirmed...accurate whatever it's called. The diameter of Calpamos was never mentioned in the CMFM or WYR? I should buy these 2 books already...
As SM mentioned, Calpamos' size is pointed out in the USCM Tech Manual (the book refers to it as "Zeta 2 IV", the 4th planet in the Zeta 2 Reticuli system), but I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head. I can check it in a little bit, though.
Seriously? The diameter is in there? Please find it. Thx Gold for the link I will check too if I can find it.
QuoteI've heard it said it refers to Lima Vector or Lagrange Vector and 3 coordinates to specify which moon of a planetary body you are talking about in vector.
I've also heard Location Vector and Leviticus. I've never been able to verify any of them to be accurate.
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2016, 03:41:53 AM
QuoteI've heard it said it refers to Lima Vector or Lagrange Vector and 3 coordinates to specify which moon of a planetary body you are talking about in vector.
I've also heard Location Vector and Leviticus. I've never been able to verify any of them to be accurate.
Thinking logically, it may be a company label separate from the astronomical designation of the moon. Something akin to the 426th lunar body that is being terraformed or is Life Viable.
Nope, that's wrong, it would mean that LV-223 was "first" and they catalogued 204 further moons before they got to the next moon over on the same planet.
It may be that by the time astrophysicists explore thousands of extrasolar planets and moons in person, a more complex nomenclature is developed than today's simplistic, what is it / when was it discovered / what is it orbiting designation. Perhaps a size/composition/gravity/atmosphere catalogue system of sorts which we cannot determine today.
L: lunar
V: size 5
4: 400's composition category
2: 20's gravity category
6: Type 6 atmosphere
Which if you think about it is also wrong, as LV223 is around the corner, is pretty similar and nowhere near LV426 in numbers. Plus you'd need things like PX488 for planets which don't exist in the canon.
I give up
In reality it's technobabble, but given how this thread's going that's not going to stop anyone.
Yep.
Quote from: gold on Sep 17, 2016, 04:19:38 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2016, 03:41:53 AM
QuoteI've heard it said it refers to Lima Vector or Lagrange Vector and 3 coordinates to specify which moon of a planetary body you are talking about in vector.
I've also heard Location Vector and Leviticus. I've never been able to verify any of them to be accurate.
Thinking logically, it may be a company label separate from the astronomical designation of the moon. Something akin to the 426th lunar body that is being terraformed or is Life Viable.
Nope, that's wrong, it would mean that LV-223 was "first" and they catalogued 204 further moons before they got to the next moon over on the same planet.
It may be that by the time astrophysicists explore thousands of extrasolar planets and moons in person, a more complex nomenclature is developed than today's simplistic, what is it / when was it discovered / what is it orbiting designation. Perhaps a size/composition/gravity/atmosphere catalogue system of sorts which we cannot determine today.
L: lunar
V: size 5
4: 400's composition category
2: 20's gravity category
6: Type 6 atmosphere
Which if you think about it is also wrong, as LV223 is around the corner, is pretty similar and nowhere near LV426 in numbers. Plus you'd need things like PX488 for planets which don't exist in the canon.
I give up
Hold on lol! LV-426 is a captured moon which means it should be quite different in composition, etc.
Your description does make good sense! And what is PX488?.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 17, 2016, 05:43:38 AM
In reality it's technobabble, but given how this thread's going that's not going to stop anyone.
Lol!
Thanks, but I doubt it would work with only 9 digits for each of the categories.
If you could just summarize 5 things about a foreign body you could walk on you'd want to know:
-Type of celestial body
-Atmospheric composition by volume (which would probably include climate and surface pressure )
-Surface gravity
-Equatorial radius
-Orbital period
2 letters and 3 numbers gives 26/26/9/9/9 categories you could classify. Seeing as the L most likely means lunar (as it is used on LV223), and the V also appears to not be an alphabetic category, (a roman numeral at best, but we've not seen any other designations of this kind in the canon) that leaves 9/9/9 for designating the remaining categories, which in my mind doesn't give enough latitude or range to cover all possibilities by a long shot.
I think my theory is wrong.
PX-488 is something I made up which you would expect to see in the lore if what I said had any basis in reality.
P: Planet
X: Size category 10
4: Characteristic a
8: Characteristic b
8: Characteristic c
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 03:33:13 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 03:28:13 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 03:15:35 AM
One last thought, that website that says Calpamos is 117,000km in diameter, is that canon/confirmed...accurate whatever it's called. The diameter of Calpamos was never mentioned in the CMFM or WYR? I should buy these 2 books already...
As SM mentioned, Calpamos' size is pointed out in the USCM Tech Manual (the book refers to it as "Zeta 2 IV", the 4th planet in the Zeta 2 Reticuli system), but I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head. I can check it in a little bit, though.
Seriously? The diameter is in there? Please find it. Thx Gold for the link I will check too if I can find it.
Sorry for the delay.
Page 137 of the CMTM says Calpamos is "a Jovian supergiant - a brown dwarf protostar - notable for its relatively low albedo and a well developed ring system. Zeta 2 IV has a mass of 1.899 x 10^25 metric tons (approx. 10 Jovian masses) and an equatorial diameter of 306,400 km".
Quote from: gold on Sep 17, 2016, 03:17:16 PM
Thanks, but I doubt it would work with only 9 digits for each of the categories.
If you could just summarize 5 things about a foreign body you could walk on you'd want to know:
-Type of celestial body
-Atmospheric composition by volume (which would probably include climate and surface pressure )
-Surface gravity
-Equatorial radius
-Orbital period
2 letters and 3 numbers gives 26/26/9/9/9 categories you could classify. Seeing as the L most likely means lunar (as it is used on LV223), and the V also appears to not be an alphabetic category, (a roman numeral at best, but we've not seen any other designations of this kind in the canon) that leaves 9/9/9 for designating the remaining categories, which in my mind doesn't give enough latitude or range to cover all possibilities by a long shot.
I think my theory is wrong.
PX-488 is something I made up which you would expect to see in the lore if what I said had any basis in reality.
P: Planet
X: Size category 10
4: Characteristic a
8: Characteristic b
8: Characteristic c
This would mean there could be several LV-426's out there. Possibly millions or billions.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 02:32:11 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 02:19:34 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 02:15:12 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 02:09:41 AM
Is LV-797 located in the same system as LV-223/426?
I forget about it until now while I was reading the new #4 issue Prometheus.
Found this small description on a website:
LV-797, aka Tartarus, is a WY territory schedule to be terraformed. But it looks a rival company by the name of Seegson (yes!) is prospecting illegally on their grounds. Awesome! For those wondering why I'm geeking out right now, Seegson was the guilty party behind the shenanigans in the brilliant Alien: Isolation. Now we have a nice tie-in between the game and comics universe.
We already had a tie-in between the comics and the game - Amanda Ripley cameos in 'Aliens: Defiance' #1 if I remember right. :)
Yeah, this is an old review of Predator Life & Death #1. I think this came out a few months or weeks before Aliens: Defiance.
Ohhh my mistake, I didn't realize you were quoting someone else's review. :P
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 17, 2016, 02:23:34 AM
Not necessarily.... Check this out:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/superheavy-element-117-island-of-stability/
While that's a really interesting article, the problem is that "Element 117 is still artificially created. The first paragraph of the article is a bit misleading - it talks about "long lived" elements, but what it's really saying is "long lived when compared to other similar elements" the rest of the article makes this a bit clearer. You're still talking about artificial, unstable elements with short half-lives and big radioactive output. Not something conducive to mining, or colonization.
Like I said, if LV-426 was an artificial construct, problem solved. But we don't get any indication from any source that this is the case, or that LV-426 is even remarkable in any way.
QuoteBut I do agree. More likely that lv-426 is larger than smaller and "lambert misspoke" is the explanation I choose.
Thanks. :)
What if LV-223 & Lv-426 are not just constructs, but super carriers for engineer bomber ships. Because of cosimc dust and long peroids of inactive, or purposeful deceptive camouflaging, the ships are now covered in enough unforged natural materials that they are now mistaken as planests, like some of those novels that have our moon or mars as a alien space ship. Some people actually belive the moon is a spaceship.
Some people are bat-$*%# crazy
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 03:54:10 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 03:33:13 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 03:28:13 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 03:15:35 AM
One last thought, that website that says Calpamos is 117,000km in diameter, is that canon/confirmed...accurate whatever it's called. The diameter of Calpamos was never mentioned in the CMFM or WYR? I should buy these 2 books already...
As SM mentioned, Calpamos' size is pointed out in the USCM Tech Manual (the book refers to it as "Zeta 2 IV", the 4th planet in the Zeta 2 Reticuli system), but I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head. I can check it in a little bit, though.
Seriously? The diameter is in there? Please find it. Thx Gold for the link I will check too if I can find it.
Sorry for the delay.
Page 137 of the CMTM says Calpamos is "a Jovian supergiant - a brown dwarf protostar - notable for its relatively low albedo and a well developed ring system. Zeta 2 IV has a mass of 1.899 x 10^25 metric tons (approx. 10 Jovian masses) and an equatorial diameter of 306,400 km".
Awesome. Whoever wrote or gave him that info for the CMTM back in 1996 did a great job! They really did their research.
Exactly what I found in my research too. That really is a Jovian Super Giant - borderline brown dwarf protostar with a 306,400km diameter or approx.
2.2x the diameter of Jupiter. Not sure about the Mass, I'm just talking about the size.
Thx for the info this clears a whole lot and a 12100km sized moon or moons make much more sense now. Great stuff.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 05:41:37 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 03:54:10 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 03:33:13 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 03:28:13 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 03:15:35 AM
One last thought, that website that says Calpamos is 117,000km in diameter, is that canon/confirmed...accurate whatever it's called. The diameter of Calpamos was never mentioned in the CMFM or WYR? I should buy these 2 books already...
As SM mentioned, Calpamos' size is pointed out in the USCM Tech Manual (the book refers to it as "Zeta 2 IV", the 4th planet in the Zeta 2 Reticuli system), but I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head. I can check it in a little bit, though.
Seriously? The diameter is in there? Please find it. Thx Gold for the link I will check too if I can find it.
Sorry for the delay.
Page 137 of the CMTM says Calpamos is "a Jovian supergiant - a brown dwarf protostar - notable for its relatively low albedo and a well developed ring system. Zeta 2 IV has a mass of 1.899 x 10^25 metric tons (approx. 10 Jovian masses) and an equatorial diameter of 306,400 km".
Awesome. Whoever wrote or gave him that info for the CMTM back in 1996 did a great job! They really did their research.
Exactly what I found in my research too. That really is a Jovian Super Giant - borderline brown dwarf protostar with a 306,400km diameter or approx. 2.2x the diameter of Jupiter. Not sure about the Mass, I'm just talking about the size.
Thx for the info this clears a whole lot and a 12100km sized moon or moons make much more sense now. Great stuff.
It could be because the CMTM was written in I think 1997. In September of 1996 a discovery was made of a hot jupiter type planet around ζ2 due to observed radial velocity shifts of the star, (The purported planet had a mass of .27 Jupiter, and a 18.9 day orbit, and was 0.14 - 0.55 au from the star, which would mean human perceptible day and night cycle with very bright daylight.) But the discovery was quickly retracted as the signal was shown to be caused by pulsations of the star itself.
Now we know that ζ2 (which is pretty much identical to our sun (99% of the mass, 90% of the size)) has a debris field around it, but it's asymmetric in shape and we know ζ2 isn't what's making it asymmetric. It is probably a planet. So if they want to be accurate, canon writers should take that into account. The perturbing planet can have a mass no greater than twice that of Jupiter and is orbiting with a periastron (clostest distance to ζ2) around 150−250 AU from the star (250 times the distance between our sun and Earth). That means it's 3-5 times further away than Pluto is from our sun.
Pluto at the surface has as much light at noon as we have on Earth just after sunset. This hypothetical planets' available light would range from night/starlit to pitch black. The fact that we are talking about a hypothetical S/2039 (HD20807 IV) 2 or moon of the planet would mean it's just a tiny bit brighter as the planet itself would reflect light onto the moon (albeit with a low albedo like the CMTM stated way back in the 90's)
Whoever's writing the canon for these movies should take that into account (if they want to be that accurate). But the fact that the ACMTM got it so close is amazing and speaks volumes of the knowledge or researching ability of whoever wrote it. To realise a jovian gasgiant so far out of ζ2, calling out the low albedo, etc. It's surprisingly accurate research.
OT: It reminds me of the depths of Dan Aykroyd's research in 1982 before he wrote Ghostbusters with all that equipment and technobabble. esp that genuine article: "On the quantum mechanics of anomalous phenomena" he based it all on.
Quote from: gold on Sep 17, 2016, 07:23:43 PM
Now we know that ζ2 (which is pretty much identical to our sun (99% of the mass, 90% of the size)) has a debris field around it, but it's asymmetric in shape and we know ζ2 isn't what's making it asymmetric. It is probably a planet. So if they want to be accurate, canon writers should take that into account. The perturbing planet can have a mass no greater than twice that of Jupiter and is orbiting with a periastron (clostest distance to ζ2) around 150−250 AU from the star (250 times the distance between our sun and Earth). That means it's 3-5 times further away than Pluto is from our sun.
Hi Gold, so you're saying that a planet is causing an assymetric debris field around the host star (ζ2)? And that planet is located around 150−250 AU away from ζ2? Am I correct?
You are not talking about Calpamos concerning this, right? I read somewhere that Calpamos is situated right after ζ2's habitable zone. Would you happen to know if they've discoevered such huge Jovian Super Giants in this zone yet?
I will go check.
(https://s15.postimg.org/l40gsx7bf/image.jpg)
CT Cha b gas giant is the same size as Calpamos
(https://s15.postimg.org/x00rotxln/17_09_2016_4_34_06_PM.jpg)
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 07:57:32 PM
Quote from: gold on Sep 17, 2016, 07:23:43 PM
Now we know that ζ2 (which is pretty much identical to our sun (99% of the mass, 90% of the size)) has a debris field around it, but it's asymmetric in shape and we know ζ2 isn't what's making it asymmetric. It is probably a planet. So if they want to be accurate, canon writers should take that into account. The perturbing planet can have a mass no greater than twice that of Jupiter and is orbiting with a periastron (clostest distance to ζ2) around 150−250 AU from the star (250 times the distance between our sun and Earth). That means it's 3-5 times further away than Pluto is from our sun.
Hi Gold, so you're saying that a planet is causing an assymetric debris field around the host star (ζ2)? And that planet is located around 150−250 AU away from ζ2? Am I correct?
You are not talking about Calpamos concerning this, right? I read somewhere that Calpamos is situated right after ζ2's habitable zone. Would you happen to know if they've discoevered such huge Jovian Super Giants in this zone yet?
I will go check.
(https://s15.postimg.org/l40gsx7bf/image.jpg)
Yes, and no.
There is no planet of any significant size (that we can see) within a habitable zone of ζ2. The star simply does not wobble enough to indicate sizeable planets.
There is however a debris disk which until 10 years ago was thought to lie within a few AU (so was considered an asteroid belt like disk). Since 2011 we know it lies much further out, (~100 AU) and is more like a Kuiper belt.
The disk is however not symmetrical and this is theorised to be caused by a planet way out (say 150-250 AU, so outside the disk).
It is possible that the disk is deformed by a body much closer in than 150-250 AU, (a brown dwarf at around 15-20 AU). A brown dwarf is the same size as Jupiter but around 80x its mass.
So there is no planet (that we can tell) within 15-20 AU of ζ2.
PS: Visible surface light appears as a moonlit night at around 75-200 AU out from a sun like star (also depending on the albedo (reflectivity) of nearby objects (planets, moons, etc)).
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 02:06:20 AMIf any source, anywhere, bothered to acknowledge how "impossible" a planet that small is, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. :) A throwaway line where someone says "yeah, tiny LV-426 is made of absurdly-dense Unobtanium, that's why we mine there", literally anything.
Ah, I get it. It's not that you can't suspend disbelief and accept it, it's that it hasn't been lampshaded (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging) to your satisfaction. So if the WYR had made a passing reference to the oddity of LV-426's gravity for its size and then redacted a portion of the following text, would that have been enough for you?
And I appreciate your suggestion, but I'm already familiar with Solaris (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=55261.msg2139408#msg2139408). I just wish more people were.
Quote from: gold on Sep 17, 2016, 08:42:15 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 07:57:32 PM
Quote from: gold on Sep 17, 2016, 07:23:43 PM
Now we know that ζ2 (which is pretty much identical to our sun (99% of the mass, 90% of the size)) has a debris field around it, but it's asymmetric in shape and we know ζ2 isn't what's making it asymmetric. It is probably a planet. So if they want to be accurate, canon writers should take that into account. The perturbing planet can have a mass no greater than twice that of Jupiter and is orbiting with a periastron (clostest distance to ζ2) around 150−250 AU from the star (250 times the distance between our sun and Earth). That means it's 3-5 times further away than Pluto is from our sun.
Hi Gold, so you're saying that a planet is causing an assymetric debris field around the host star (ζ2)? And that planet is located around 150−250 AU away from ζ2? Am I correct?
You are not talking about Calpamos concerning this, right? I read somewhere that Calpamos is situated right after ζ2's habitable zone. Would you happen to know if they've discoevered such huge Jovian Super Giants in this zone yet?
I will go check.
(https://s15.postimg.org/l40gsx7bf/image.jpg)
Yes, and no.
There is no planet of any significant size (that we can see) within a habitable zone of ζ2. The star simply does not wobble enough to indicate sizeable planets.
There is however a debris disk which until 10 years ago was thought to lie within a few AU (so was considered an asteroid belt like disk). Since 2011 we know it lies much further out, (~100 AU) and was more like a Kuiper belt.
The disk is however not symmetrical and this is theorised to be caused by a planet way out (say 150-250 AU, so outside the disk).
It is possible that the disk is deformed by a body much closer in than 150-250 AU, (a brown dwarf at around 15-20 AU). A brown dwarf is the same size as Jupiter but around 80x its mass.
So there is no planet (that we can tell) within 15-20 AU of ζ2.
PS: Visible surface light appears as a moonlit night at around 75-200 AU out from a sun like star (also depending on the albedo (reflectivity) of nearby objects (planets, moons, etc)).
No, I meant has there ever been a gas giant of Calpamos's size or say 1.5-2.25x the size of Jupiter discovered just outside any star's habitatble zone. See that list I put also. And honestly, I would bury the debris field subject, unless you think it causes conflictions with Calpamos's location, because it's going to cause confusion.
(https://s15.postimg.org/l40gsx7bf/image.jpg)
I'm so glad this thread has turned into an astrophysics discussion.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 07:57:32 PM
(https://s15.postimg.org/l40gsx7bf/image.jpg)
F'king hell... :laugh:
Somebody, take the professor in the back and plug him into the hyperdrive.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 07:57:32 PM
CT Cha b gas giant is the same size as Calpamos
Yes, but that's around a completely different star. It orbits CT Chamaeleontis in the constellation Chamaeleon and lies 13 times further out than ζ2 in Reticulum. EDIT: whoops, I missed this that you wrote: "No, I meant has there ever been a gas giant of Calpamos's size or say 1.5-2.25x the size of Jupiter discovered just outside any star's habitatble zone. See that list I put also"
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 17, 2016, 08:59:03 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 07:57:32 PM
(https://s15.postimg.org/l40gsx7bf/image.jpg)
F'king hell... :laugh:
Somebody, take the professor in the back and plug him into the hyperdrive.
I like these discussions :) If you're going to write canon, might as well do someresearch :) And you'd be surprised how often fan sites get looked up by scriptwriters for verification, etc.
Quote from: gold on Sep 17, 2016, 08:59:45 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 07:57:32 PM
CT Cha b gas giant is the same size as Calpamos
Yes, but that's around a completely different star. It orbits CT Chamaeleontis in the constellation Chamaeleon and lies 13 times further out than ζ2 in Reticulum.
lol eighth passenger, yea it's somewhere else, just nice to see how big it is compared to Jupiter and Earth. If LV-426 is really 12100km or just about as big as Earth than you can visualize it's size compared to Calpamos.
(https://s15.postimg.org/x00rotxln/17_09_2016_4_34_06_PM.jpg)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 17, 2016, 08:59:03 PM
Somebody, take the professor in the back and plug him into the hyperdrive.
Well said. :laugh:
Quote from: gold on Sep 17, 2016, 08:59:45 PMI like these discussions :) If you're going to write canon, might as well do someresearch :) And you'd be surprised how often fan sites get looked up by scriptwriters for verification, etc.
I wouldn't have been surprised if Perry herself checked this thread from time to time...until now. Good job, guys.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 09:05:32 PM
Quote from: gold on Sep 17, 2016, 08:59:45 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 17, 2016, 07:57:32 PM
CT Cha b gas giant is the same size as Calpamos
Yes, but that's around a completely different star. It orbits CT Chamaeleontis in the constellation Chamaeleon and lies 13 times further out than ζ2 in Reticulum.
lol eighth passenger, yea it's somewhere else, just nice to see how big it is compared to Jupiter and Earth. If LV-426 is really 12100km or just about as big as Earth than you can visualize it's size compared to Calpamos.
https://s15.postimg.org/x00rotxln/17_09_2016_4_34_06_PM.jpg
My apologies, yes you are right. But I agree, the level of precision evident in something like the CMTM or WYR is so high that a value of 1200km diameter for the moon is ridiculous. It doesn't fit in terms of the precision of the rest. I think it's why the ACMTM corrected it to 12000 km.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 17, 2016, 09:07:01 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Sep 17, 2016, 08:59:03 PM
Somebody, take the professor in the back and plug him into the hyperdrive.
Well said. :laugh:
Quote from: gold on Sep 17, 2016, 08:59:45 PMI like these discussions :) If you're going to write canon, might as well do someresearch :) And you'd be surprised how often fan sites get looked up by scriptwriters for verification, etc.
I wouldn't have been surprised if Perry herself checked this thread from time to time...until now. Good job, guys.
Ok, ok I'll stop. Just wanted people to know what's out around that particular star.
You're welcome to start a new thread. Maybe a kindly mod could even split the posts.
QuoteIt could be because the CMTM was written in I think 1997.
It was published in mid 1995.
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2016, 09:47:27 PM
QuoteIt could be because the CMTM was written in I think 1997.
It was published in mid 1995.
How does Fox regard it?
Maybe not the final word on marine hardware, but as close as you'll get, and more than anyone could want.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 17, 2016, 09:35:02 PM
You're welcome to start a new thread. Maybe a kindly mod could even split the posts.
I started a thread like this a while ago where astrophysics discussions would be more than welcome!! It didn't catch on like I was hoping, but maybe I just didn't catch the right people. Lol. Here's a link to the thread if you all want move that discussion there:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=53083.0
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 17, 2016, 10:21:31 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2016, 09:47:27 PM
QuoteIt could be because the CMTM was written in I think 1997.
It was published in mid 1995.
How does Fox regard it?
I'd like to know the answer to this question, too.
I have the reprint edition. I'm assuming because the book has had additional print runs now since 1995 - and is now published by Titan, a company that 20th Century Fox deals with regularly - that 20th Century Fox regards it as canon. As the owner of the Property, they have the last say in this regard.
Which as far as I am concerned is the metric for measuring all canonical fictional material, which the Colonial Marines Technical Manual neatly fits into.
If so, what I'd like to know is: Did Fox adopt it as canon
after it was released? ...or has Fox
always regarded it as a legitimate part of the the EU?
-Windebieste.
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2016, 10:26:49 PM
Maybe not the final word on marine hardware, but as close as you'll get, and more than anyone could want.
So they can cherry-pick the good and leave the rest. That reminds me of how LFL treats the old Star Wars EU now.
So while it may be regarded as a font of ideas that they can use whenever they want, that shouldn't be interpreted as Fox's tacit endorsement of the CMTM as a canon source of information.
When can we expect an SM-revised edition of the CMTM to be published? I hope you fix the Solomons (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=49493.msg2138860#msg2138860) error.
QuoteSo they can cherry-pick the good and leave the rest.
Without getting into varying mileages of "good"; yes more or less.
Some of the events depicted are obviously apocryphal, but most of the technical information is solid and often referenced in other media.
So how does Fox regard contradictions between the CMTM and the WYR?
I believe the latter would take precedence.
T'would have been interesting if the current WYR had been subtitled "First Edition" in anticipation of any new or contradictory information coming to light in either Alien: Covenant or Alien 5.
It could be like Oceania's Newspeak Dictionary. :)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 17, 2016, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 17, 2016, 02:06:20 AMIf any source, anywhere, bothered to acknowledge how "impossible" a planet that small is, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. :) A throwaway line where someone says "yeah, tiny LV-426 is made of absurdly-dense Unobtanium, that's why we mine there", literally anything.
Ah, I get it. It's not that you can't suspend disbelief and accept it, it's that it hasn't been lampshaded (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging) to your satisfaction. So if the WYR had made a passing reference to the oddity of LV-426's gravity for its size and then redacted a portion of the following text, would that have been enough for you?
To be honest, yes. Granted it wouldn't have jived well with other sources (or the movies), which don't lampshade the size in any way, but it would have been a hell of a start.
I'm totally okay with the Alien being an "impossible" creature, because that characteristic is at the forefront of what the Alien is, and what makes it scary and interesting. Its impossible abilities and characteristics are deliberate writing choices. LV-426's size is not. Having LV-426 (or, going by the WYR, LV-223 as well) be similarly "impossible" without being lampshaded or serving the plot in any way, is the result of bad writing and we shouldn't reward that- and the CMTM didn't, it deliberately fixed it. It's worth pointing out that the CMTM also not only lampshaded the "impossibility" of the Alien in the final chapter, but emphasized it; I imagine that wasn't by accident.
Lambert's line in the deleted scene isn't meant to be taken as gospel truth any moreso than Dallas saying the facehugger bleeds "molecular acid" (spoiler: molecular acid is nothing special, since all acids are molecular acid), or the arbitrary functionings of Ash's motion detector reacting to "micro changes in air density".
It's technobabble written by people who aren't scientists, for a presumably under-educated audience who can't tell the difference. That doesn't mean we should adhere to it as gospel truth after fact-checking it.
Quote
And I appreciate your suggestion, but I'm already familiar with Solaris (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=55261.msg2139408#msg2139408). I just wish more people were.
Ditto. :)
Quote from: windebieste on Sep 17, 2016, 10:54:58 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 17, 2016, 10:21:31 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2016, 09:47:27 PM
QuoteIt could be because the CMTM was written in I think 1997.
It was published in mid 1995.
How does Fox regard it?
I'd like to know the answer to this question, too.
I have the reprint edition. I'm assuming because the book has had additional print runs now since 1995 - and is now published by Titan, a company that 20th Century Fox deals with regularly - that 20th Century Fox regards it as canon. As the owner of the Property, they have the last say in this regard.
Which as far as I am concerned is the metric for measuring all canonical fictional material, which the Colonial Marines Technical Manual neatly fits into.
If so, what I'd like to know is: Did Fox adopt it as canon after it was released? ...or has Fox always regarded it as a legitimate part of the the EU?
-Windebieste.
The level of scientifically accurate detail is breathtaking in the CMTM, from the skills required in orbital spaceship warfare to descriptions of the xenomorph metabolism and acid chemical makeup, the dates, distances, important bts, speeds of the ships, etc. Just all of it really. The WYR is also great, much more slick presentation but the depth to which the CMTM goes to is a step beyond imo. CMTM is like the work of a genius or a certified mad man.
Really, to have this treasure trove of incredibly detailed Aliens encyclopedic knowledge sitting there, and for Fox to not use it would be foolish. Also seeing as it's a free download nowadays (search using the title and .pdf) Also the plot of the videogame (whatever your opinion of that may be) starts in the TM which itself is like a mini sequel to 1986 Aliens anyway. (Shinyo Maru, Resolute encounter at LV-426 on Sept 14th 2179). All the weapons in the game are more or less the weapons from the TM, etc.
But yeah, the franchise is going to need new editions of everything soon. But that's normal for a franchise with a 15 year gap between 2 movies. The movies had Ripley and Hicks dead, the game had
Spoiler
Ripley dead, Hicks alive,
Blomkamp has both alive, etc.
So new editions to everything are likely coming. Lol, wouldn't it be funny if in cryosleep Ripley dreamt Alien 3 and Hicks dreamt the game and the weird Dark Horse alien telepathy merged their dreams. All sources combined into 1 canon, problem solved, cue Blomkamp ;P
How exactly is the CMTM free?
Quote from: SM on Sep 18, 2016, 07:47:08 AM
How exactly is the CMTM free?
I don't know, but for the past 6 years or so, if you google: Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual.pdf its literally the first link (vk.com)
And that doesn't strike you as being a pirated copy?
Quote from: SM on Sep 18, 2016, 08:22:28 AM
And that doesn't strike you as being a pirated copy?
It's on google (not some bittorrent site) and it's literally been the first link for many years.
Google usually DMCAs search results that infringe copyright. Maybe the first edition is public domain since the release of the 2012 edition?
I'm not aware of any digital version of the book being available. It may the case, but I seriously doubt it.
Nonetheless, here's the publisher's web page (http://titanbooks.com/aliens-colonial-marines-technical-manual-6330/) for the book on their online store. There's no mention of any digital version being available - for free or otherwise - at all.
It's $19.95 and won't bust the bank if you would like to purchase an unquestionably legitimate item.
As far as being in the public domain goes, edition version has no bearing. The content covered by the book is current intellectual property owned by 20th Century Fox which means no edition of the book can be considered to be in the public domain, no matter how old it is.
-Windebieste.
Interesting that Boxtree/ Harper Prism are giving away e-books on Russian social media...
A lot of 'interesting' things happen in Russia.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 18, 2016, 03:36:41 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 17, 2016, 08:43:43 PM
Ah, I get it. It's not that you can't suspend disbelief and accept it, it's that it hasn't been lampshaded (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging) to your satisfaction. So if the WYR had made a passing reference to the oddity of LV-426's gravity for its size and then redacted a portion of the following text, would that have been enough for you?
To be honest, yes. Granted it wouldn't have jived well with other sources (or the movies), which don't lampshade the size in any way, but it would have been a hell of a start.
Fair enough. For record though, I have no attachment to the deleted scenes from the director's cut of Alien. In fact, I've said before that the eggmorphing scene shouldn't even exist in canon (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=55216.msg2137950#msg2137950).
Quote from: SM on Sep 18, 2016, 09:25:20 AM
Interesting that Boxtree/ Harper Prism are giving away e-books on Russian social media...
The pesky UPP has obtained classified information about the USCM!
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 18, 2016, 01:29:41 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 18, 2016, 03:36:41 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 17, 2016, 08:43:43 PM
Ah, I get it. It's not that you can't suspend disbelief and accept it, it's that it hasn't been lampshaded (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging) to your satisfaction. So if the WYR had made a passing reference to the oddity of LV-426's gravity for its size and then redacted a portion of the following text, would that have been enough for you?
To be honest, yes. Granted it wouldn't have jived well with other sources (or the movies), which don't lampshade the size in any way, but it would have been a hell of a start.
Fair enough. For record though, I have no attachment to the deleted scenes from the director's cut of Alien. In fact, I've said before that the eggmorphing scene shouldn't even exist in canon (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=55216.msg2137950#msg2137950).
In that case, why the attachment to Lambert's line about LV-426's size, then?
QuoteThe pesky UPP has obtained classified information about the USCM!
Well played :D
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 18, 2016, 04:42:27 PMIn that case, why the attachment to Lambert's line about LV-426's size, then?
I don't recall ever saying I had one. Fox is obviously attached to it, though.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 18, 2016, 05:08:43 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 18, 2016, 04:42:27 PMIn that case, why the attachment to Lambert's line about LV-426's size, then?
I don't recall ever saying I had one.
Why do you defend it, in that case?
QuoteFox is obviously attached to it, though.
That, or they didn't catch the mistake. The CMTM is still in print and commonly referenced, after all.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 18, 2016, 05:27:05 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 18, 2016, 05:08:43 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 18, 2016, 04:42:27 PMIn that case, why the attachment to Lambert's line about LV-426's size, then?
I don't recall ever saying I had one.
Why do you defend it, in that case?
Because...
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 15, 2016, 06:54:19 PMI'm still fighting the good fight in the name of SM and the WYR.
But why? Devil's advocate? (there's nothing wrong with this - or any reason, really, by all means believe whatever you want - I'm just more of curious. Knowing WHY someone believes something is often more interesting than WHAT they believe)
Why does Solaris do what it does?
Not really seeing what that has to do with the question.
"Because SM says so" isn't good enough?
I was expecting more, but if that's all there is to it, then I guess that's all there is to it. :)
If you need a better reason, I guess you could say that I tend to err on the side of the source material unless it is directly contradicted by one of the later films. Had Aliens specified a different size for LV-426, I would have accepted that as canon over the deleted scene from Alien.
What about Lambert's number being contradicted by the films itself, independent of the CMTM?
Hypothetically, if Bishop or Gorman had offhandedly said the Sulaco was a certain length, but then that length is demonstrably false based on what we see in the movies, would you have discarded their number or stuck with it?
Hard to say. My brain might react just like a computer does to Captain Kirk.
Now that I think about it, could "Thetis" have been another deliberate attempt to correct the source material as well? After all, Thetis is a character from Greek mythology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thetis) and would be a much more fitting name for a celestial body than Thedus (which, to my knowledge, is completely original).
In other words, LBW may have been well aware of Thedus and simply decided to retcon that too.
I would like to point out theirs a serous flaw in the Colonial Marine Tech book. In regards to troop transport, the railguns are obsoletly useless. It has to be a miss print. Calculating the actual force of impact, it does less than alot of 9mm that exist now, it could never damage a modern battle tank, nor any that existed at the time when the book was made, and going by the ships description of its armor, that its resistant to micrometors, micrometors, by calculations of the f.o.i., will project more energy than the railguns, and if its immune to those, or nearly, none of he diffrent railguns shell types would ever harm a marine ship, unless you shot it through a window, but considering the apc uses armored quartz as its window, i wouldn't count its windows as being week even if they ste a weak point.
Also if you look at the barrel width, the shells should be dramatically heavier, bigger, and cause greater damage on f.o.i. .
What does Xenomrph usually say about this?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 19, 2016, 10:52:59 PM
What does Xenomrph usually say about this?
I don't know, this is the first time i am aware of this, i became aware 2 months ago while having a debate with Aliens vs Terminator. I had help with a mechanical enginner to get an idea how good the railguns are.
They ended up being disappointedly bad, if they fight ships in other fictions, and they dont have the pbc or nukes, harsh language would be a better choice.
Even though one is technically a acpr its so damn light that an apcr with a wood penetrator from an 130 mm naval gun from the soviet union would be a better option.
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Sep 19, 2016, 10:50:43 PM
I would like to point out theirs a serous flaw in the Colonial Marine Tech book. In regards to troop transport, the railguns are obsoletly useless. It has to be a miss print. Calculating the actual force of impact, it does less than alot of 9mm that exist now, it could never damage a modern battle tank, nor any that existed at the time when the book was made, and going by the ships description of its armor, that its resistant to micrometors, micrometors, by calculations of the f.o.i., will project more energy than the railguns, and if its immune to those, or nearly, none of he diffrent railguns shell types would ever harm a marine ship, unless you shot it through a window, but considering the apc uses armored quartz as its window, i wouldn't count its windows as being week even if they ste a weak point.
Also if you look at the barrel width, the shells should be dramatically heavier, bigger, and cause greater damage on f.o.i. .
The canon is full of things which make no sense militarily.
Like in an era where the standard-issue carbine is firing 10mm explosive-tip caseless rounds out to 2km at 950rpm, for the long range sniper rifle (M42a, labelled M4Ra in the game) to fire a standard 7.62x51mm NATO round looks positively toothless by comparison.
For a battle rifle to be worthwhile in a time and place in which 10mm explosive-tip rounds are standard-issue for carbines, you're either gonna need a GIGANTIC 20mm round for anti-materiel work, or you're gonna need the opposite extreme: something like the 4mm sabot SCAR round. Anything but a (by then) 230 year old 7.62 NATO.
Quote from: gold on Sep 20, 2016, 04:00:00 AM
Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Sep 19, 2016, 10:50:43 PM
I would like to point out theirs a serous flaw in the Colonial Marine Tech book. In regards to troop transport, the railguns are obsoletly useless. It has to be a miss print. Calculating the actual force of impact, it does less than alot of 9mm that exist now, it could never damage a modern battle tank, nor any that existed at the time when the book was made, and going by the ships description of its armor, that its resistant to micrometors, micrometors, by calculations of the f.o.i., will project more energy than the railguns, and if its immune to those, or nearly, none of he diffrent railguns shell types would ever harm a marine ship, unless you shot it through a window, but considering the apc uses armored quartz as its window, i wouldn't count its windows as being week even if they ste a weak point.
Also if you look at the barrel width, the shells should be dramatically heavier, bigger, and cause greater damage on f.o.i. .
The canon is full of things which make no sense militarily.
If it makes you feel any better, the author of the book pretty much agrees with you.
To be honest, the very idea of strapping an enormous machine gun to man with a giant arm that just serves to hinder their movement and leaves them stood wide out in the open to be picked off by anything that can shoot back is no less ridiculous than anything in the Tech Manual.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 20, 2016, 08:27:12 AM
To be honest, the very idea of strapping an enormous machine gun to man with a giant arm that just serves to hinder their movement and leaves them stood wide out in the open to be picked off by anything that can shoot back is no less ridiculous than anything in the Tech Manual.
Do you mean the Smart Gun?
I think everyone on the planet is willing to give the Smart Gun a pass strictly on the Rule of Cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool), just like the motion trackers that are total nonsense, or the pulse rifle having the ammo counter only on the right side of the gun (and somehow housing 99 rounds in those magazines), etc.
And with the Smart Gun, the Tech Manual at least tried to depict ways to fire it from cover or while prone, even while using the armature. :P
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 20, 2016, 08:42:27 AMDo you mean the Smart Gun?
I do. As a military weapon it doesn't stand up to even the smallest amount of logical scrutiny. It'd be fine for pest control (provided those pests don't lack an infra-red signature, like a certain Alien we know... :P), but as soon as you come up against someone who can actually shoot back it would be totally pointless and a death trap for the operator.
Maybe smart guns (and flamethrowers) are used exclusively for "bug hunts."
Quote from: gold on Sep 20, 2016, 04:00:00 AM
The canon is full of things which make no sense militarily.
Like in an era where the standard-issue carbine is firing 10mm explosive-tip caseless rounds out to 2km at 950rpm, for the long range sniper rifle (M42a, labelled M4Ra in the game) to fire a standard 7.62x51mm NATO round looks positively toothless by comparison.
For a battle rifle to be worthwhile in a time and place in which 10mm explosive-tip rounds are standard-issue for carbines, you're either gonna need a GIGANTIC 20mm round for anti-materiel work, or you're gonna need the opposite extreme: something like the 4mm sabot SCAR round. Anything but a (by then) 230 year old 7.62 NATO.
Maybe its used for anti-bug operations unless its using the A19 rounds, which it says, "is usually used by USCM Snipers".
If i were a sniper, or could use a anit-material weapon, i would use the Armat Phased Plasma Pulse Rifle. Its depicted gibbing 2 humans in moded m3 armor with a single beam, 3 normalish xenos with a single beam, the m78 pig, or the M44 sledgehammer.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 20, 2016, 12:46:53 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 20, 2016, 08:42:27 AMDo you mean the Smart Gun?
I do. As a military weapon it doesn't stand up to even the smallest amount of logical scrutiny. It'd be fine for pest control (provided those pests don't lack an infra-red signature, like a certain Alien we know... :P), but as soon as you come up against someone who can actually shoot back it would be totally pointless and a death trap for the operator.
I think parts of the series should be about the human interaction with other humans, i think Cameron was on to something with its design, i would like to see someone write stories in which the gun is useful in a smart way.
What are your thoughts on the M57 and M59/B smart guns? I thought the 57 was awesome, the gun itself isn't gudied anymore, just the projectiles, and it can shoot like that gun from fifth element. You know that gun Drax had. Or was his name Zor or Zurg?
The M59 is more similar to the M56 except its sensor is strong enough to see through walls, probably thick walls.
So I just watched the new documentary with James Cameron that came with the "aliens 30th anniversary" blu ray, and he made a comment about what he had in mind for the smart gun. The harness was the same type of harness used for filmmakers for steady-cameras; it allows them to hold the camera steady while the camera man runs through the scene. The smart gun was suppose to offer the same type of stability in cameron's mind; it allowed the soldier to run with this big heavy duty machine gun while holding it stable enough to shoot accurately.
The Sulaco's armory carried a number of other types of rifles that were briefly visible in the film.
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Aliens#Rifles
Since they weren't used on LV-426, I can only assume that they're intended for use on different types of missions. As I suggested before, it's possible that they brought weapons specially suited for non-technological xenomorph infestations.
The Smart Gun is simply a future space version of an M-60.
I can't imagine anyone dropping to the ground in a firefight and using the smart gun like this.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F2emlh13.jpg&hash=7ddf8d8c0e65de7604eb0587065cb2ae5a2fca80)
With the harness you don't need to.
The harness protects its wearer from enemy gunfire?
The hail of bullets from the gun connected to the harness would do the trick.
The CMTM shows how you fire it from behind cover anyway.
An LMG that is semi-permanently attached to you via a bespoke harness is one of the dumbest things ever in actual military operations.
-The prone firing position is ridiculous. LMG barrels glow red hot and are even swapped out during prolonged firefights, yet this one rests on your chest and legs apparently.
-An unexpected barrel blockage during prone firing means bye-bye testicles
-You can't drop jump to cover
-You can't blind fire it
-You can't sling it over your back when the situation unexpectedly calls for CQB or clearing rooms. You have to wait outside I guess!
-What if it jams or malfunctions in a firefight? It's attached to you
-What if you become incapacitated? A team mate that finally manages to unhook it off you (during a firefight no less! -Where usually the LMG's get the most flak) has no way to stabilize it (no bipod) or auto aim it himself.
-The muzzle flash is a lighthouse
-The amount of protrusions, sharp edges and loose wires would never pass a military equipment selection program.
But it looks really cool and I love it.
- Smart guns don't appear to glow red hot in the film.
- If you have the eye piece, you don't need to blind fire it.
- If it malfunctions or jams, you 'shed' the whole thing like Drake did in the film. Same deal, if a teammate wants to take it off an incapacitated gunner.
Also in regards to your signature block, from the forum rules:
Quote- No discussion of P2P downloading. This includes discussion about downloading movies, music, games, software etc. Providing links to such places is strictly not allowed. [Amendment 16/3/16: File-sharing is acceptable for discontinued Alien/Predator-related items or extremely hard to find items such as rare books/comics/games.]
The CMTM is widely available for purchase and not hard to find.
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2016, 01:34:15 AM
- Smart guns don't appear to glow red hot in the film.
- If you have the eye piece, you don't need to blind fire it.
- If it malfunctions or jams, you 'shed' the whole thing like Drake did in the film. Same deal, if a teammate wants to take it off an incapacitated gunner.
Also in regards to your signature block, from the forum rules:
Quote- No discussion of P2P downloading. This includes discussion about downloading movies, music, games, software etc. Providing links to such places is strictly not allowed. [Amendment 16/3/16: File-sharing is acceptable for discontinued Alien/Predator-related items or extremely hard to find items such as rare books/comics/games.]
The CMTM is widely available for purchase and not hard to find.
What if you lose the eye-piece or it malfunctions?
Ok maybe it's made of unheatable super coolonium. It's still a hollow tube and can block and cause a barrel rupture.
You havent answered if a teammate takes it off you but has no time to get the harness or the harness is damaged, he has no way to stabilize it.
You never fire a gun standing up in the army (not since Waterloo atleast). With a gun attached to your torso and only swivelling through certain angles of motion (at certain degrees to boot) it is impossible to fire it freely from behind cover, where you should be 99% of the time when you fire it.
There's a reason it's a videocamera stabilising rig and not actual military light machine gun :)
Edit:
The CMTM I think is available because it's the old edition without the A3 add ons. All versions on sale appear to be the May 29th 2012 edition which means that the old one is now discontinued. In any case I've not mentioned p2p and I've provided no links to any p2p. I don't even know how p2p works but I believe it involves (bit)torents. In any case I've changed the sig.
It sounds like you want a magic weapon that covers every possible contingency.
Just got my copy in the mail today, read a lil and flipped through it. So far its pretty great
Nice. :)
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2016, 02:07:42 AM
It sounds like you want a magic weapon that covers every possible contingency.
No, I respect the desire to have an auto aiming weapon. Who wouldn't.
But failing to hit a target you are aiming at during firefights is not an issue of being 60 degrees or so off target. It's a question of fractions of a degree, a couple of degrees at best when you factor in recoil.
A gun that auto aims could be developed just by creating an electronically controlled floating breech and having an electro-hydraulically suspended barrel (for recoil). There isn't any advantage to tethering the entire weapon to a soldier through all degrees of motion. That would simply serve stability, the exact same purpose the 600 year old bipod serves.
But in terms of coolness I think it's the coolest weapon in sci-fi history. By a long shot, and that says alot.
IDK, the shoulder cannon is a pretty awesome weapon. I'd take that over the smartgun.
QuoteThe CMTM I think is available because it's the old edition without the A3 add ons. All versions on sale appear to be the May 29th 2012 edition which means that the old one is now discontinued. In any case I've not mentioned p2p and I've provided no links to any p2p. I don't even know how p2p works but I believe it involves (bit)torents. In any case I've changed the sig.
Not sure if that will cut it. But it's not my call.
If you're going to promote IP theft at least get the publication date correct. CMTM was published in 1995.
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2016, 02:38:29 AM
QuoteThe CMTM I think is available because it's the old edition without the A3 add ons. All versions on sale appear to be the May 29th 2012 edition which means that the old one is now discontinued. In any case I've not mentioned p2p and I've provided no links to any p2p. I don't even know how p2p works but I believe it involves (bit)torents. In any case I've changed the sig.
Not sure if that will cut it. But it's not my call.
If you're going to promote IP theft at least get the publication date correct. CMTM was published in 1995.
I don't think it's theft, it simply looks like the discontinued edition being made available. It's a DMCA free link and google lists it as the very first search result in its SEO engine. If anyone can prove beyond doubt it is pirated I'll change it immediately.
It's obviously pirated because it's not being distributed or made available by the publisher, or on the publisher's authority. I can't distribute a PDF version of WYR once all the collectors editions are sold out just 'cos the newer edition was revised.
That's besides the point though - the issue here is the promotion thereof.
Yea I'm inclined to agree with SM on this one. Anyone can upload to google docs; it's likely a DMCA complaint hasn't been issued (yet) which is why it hasn't been taken down...
Ok, 2-1 there's a chance it's pirated so my sig's going down.
Looks like my work here is done. :laugh: Thanks for taking it down, gold. As SM mentioned, the the promotion of that kind of pirate sharing if not permitted here. It could get us into trouble and we don't want that!
And there's the fact that the CMTM is also easy to find and generally cheap now-a-days. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aliens-Colonial-Marines-Technical-Manual/dp/1781161313/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474444128&sr=8-1&keywords=aliens+colonial+marines+technical+manual
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2016, 02:07:42 AMIt sounds like you want a magic weapon that covers every possible contingency.
I'm not sure that's what he's saying. From a logical point of view, the Smartgun
is incredibly dumb, for exactly the reason's he's pointed out. You can try and justify it by saying you can lie down with it, it doesn't overheeat, whatever, but at the end of the day, you're mobility is still hugely restricted and you're going to have difficulty getting to cover, while the enemy is going to be largely focused primarily on you because you have the biggest, most destructive gun. You wouldn't last five minutes.
But then again it's sci-fi, so it works in the context.
It autotracks targets with a cyclic rate of 1200rpm, holds 600 rounds, with a range of 1500m.
It's going to have cons to go with those pros.
A lot of smartgun talk in here. Here's my field notes from my time of use with it in AVP-AVP2 back in the day..lol.
Close combat...sucked, possibility of getting splashed by acid very high...possibility of getting flanked..high.
Support or stand alone from mid distances 20-70 meters in open or semi open areas without any squad members in front of you...very high effectiveness..ultimate bad ass.
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2016, 10:28:31 AMIt's going to have cons to go with those pros.
Sure. But when the major con is "stood right out in the open and offering a prime target", it starts to seem a little unbalanced. You can send as many auto-tracked bullets at the targets as you like, at the end of the day, unless you're facing a single solitary gunman or an enemy that has no access to firearms, a high volume of fire isn't not gonna shield you from return fire and if you're lumbering about in the open you're going to get shot before you can do much good.
More to the point, if the gun automatically tracks individual targets, it's gonna be useless for suppressive fire, which is what keeps the enemy's heads down and is the main reason we use machine guns in the first place.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 21, 2016, 10:53:11 AMA lot of smartgun talk in here. Here's my field notes from my time of use with it in AVP-AVP2 back in the day..
Always got a kick out of the fact the Smartgun can somehow track Xenos with it's infra-red tracking systems in those games... even though
Aliens specifically shows us the creature gives off no infra-red signature :)
QuoteThe CMTM I think is available because it's the old edition without the A3 add ons. All versions on sale appear to be the May 29th 2012 edition which means that the old one is now discontinued.
As far as I'm aware, the only difference between the 1995 and the 2012 editions of the Tech Manual are the cover, the actual content is the same.
If someone has both editions, feel free to correct me on that one.
QuoteMore to the point, if the gun automatically tracks individual targets, it's gonna be useless for suppressive fire, which is what keeps the enemy's heads down and is the main reason we use machine guns in the first place.
While I agree that the Smartgun is a goofy weapon from a logic standpoint, it's worth pointing out that you can turn the tracking off (in the games) or at least fire it without tracking targets (we see both Vasquez and Drake do it).
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 21, 2016, 12:22:28 PMWhile I agree that the Smartgun is a goofy weapon from a logic standpoint, it's worth pointing out that you can turn the tracking off (in the games) or at least fire it without tracking targets (we see both Vasquez and Drake do it).
True, but in that case you may as well ditch the harness entirely and have a regular machine gun that allows you to move around more freely.
Maybe they have conventional machine guns for "stand up fights."
Maybe they do. Doesn't make the gun in Aliens any less contrived.
True, but if I can buy smart guns much more easily if they're reserved specifically for the extermination of bugs who can't shoot back.
Fully auto weapons are designed for suppressing fire. Two smartgunners with overlapping arcs would be able to put down a hell of a cover fire while their teammates moved.
People realise we have mounted guns, right? As in you sit still and fire a BFG while everything within a hundred meters shits itself. Sure, they're normally on vehicles, but that just makes a bigger target, particularky for anti materiel rounds (since these arguments always assume the enemy is perfectly equipped for every situation).
Quote from: SiL on Sep 21, 2016, 01:37:23 PMTwo smartgunners with overlapping arcs would be able to put down a hell of a cover fire while their teammates moved.
They'd still be stood wide out in the open. And if they weren't, they'd be so slow to move to the next point of cover they'd be easy targets.
Especially if they had a giant machine gun strapped to them that the enemy would want to put out of action as quickly as possible.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 21, 2016, 01:37:23 PMPeople realise we have mounted guns, right?
On vehicles or in fortified positions, both of which offer protection.
Case in point, a Challenger 2 in Iraq was hit by 70 RPGs and kept on truckin'. A man stood in the open with a .50 cal wouldn't stand a hope.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 21, 2016, 11:24:45 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2016, 10:28:31 AMIt's going to have cons to go with those pros.
Sure. But when the major con is "stood right out in the open and offering a prime target", it starts to seem a little unbalanced. You can send as many auto-tracked bullets at the targets as you like, at the end of the day, unless you're facing a single solitary gunman or an enemy that has no access to firearms, a high volume of fire isn't not gonna shield you from return fire and if you're lumbering about in the open you're going to get shot before you can do much good.
More to the point, if the gun automatically tracks individual targets, it's gonna be useless for suppressive fire, which is what keeps the enemy's heads down and is the main reason we use machine guns in the first place.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 21, 2016, 10:53:11 AMA lot of smartgun talk in here. Here's my field notes from my time of use with it in AVP-AVP2 back in the day..
Always got a kick out of the fact the Smartgun can somehow track Xenos with it's infra-red tracking systems in those games... even though Aliens specifically shows us the creature gives off no infra-red signature :)
Actually the tech manual only mentions that they have no signature either when they immobile or when they pressed to their hive structure which is highly humid....but when they move, they might generate heat
We don't fully know why the aliens didn't show up on infrared
Maybe they don't give off body heat (cold blooded or something else 'alien' to us)
Maybe the hive camouflaged their body heat since it was so hot in their to begin with
Maybe their exo/meso skeletal structure acted as an insulator
Could be any number of reasons, but I don't think the reason was that they were motionless.
So I got this in the post finally.
Gotta say, I'm disappointed. The illustrations look very cheap and the whole design of the book feels like it's aimed at kids, which kind of contrasts with the content. Kind of reminds me of the DK Publishing info books.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/4b/7a/d7/4b7ad79877bfdb752ae2577956a75d5c.jpg)
Quote from: Engineer on Sep 21, 2016, 04:06:35 PM
Could be any number of reasons, but I don't think the reason was that they were motionless.
Do we know for a fact that motion trackers key off of body heat? That would make them somewhat useless against machinery, wouldn't it?
Quote from: Bughunter S. Thomson on Sep 21, 2016, 04:12:06 PM
Gotta say, I'm disappointed. The illustrations look very cheap and the whole design of the book feels like it's aimed at kids, which kind of contrasts with the content. Kind of reminds me of the DK Publishing info books.
What sort of illustrations were you expecting?
I had no expectations, it just all looks a bit uninspired and cheap. Some illustrations closer to concept art might have been nice, instead of textureless renders. It looks pretty dated.
I never said the motion trackers key off body heat. They detect movement; it was the eye pieces that used infrared and didn't work...
Quote from: Bughunter S. Thomson on Sep 21, 2016, 04:12:06 PM
So I got this in the post finally.
Gotta say, I'm disappointed. The illustrations look very cheap and the whole design of the book feels like it's aimed at kids, which kind of contrasts with the content. Kind of reminds me of the DK Publishing info books.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/4b/7a/d7/4b7ad79877bfdb752ae2577956a75d5c.jpg
I love these type of books, with pictures in color and panels with quick facts, descriptions..and stats. Is that how evey page is? These make great washroom companions after a game of spider solitaire on the old ipod lol.
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 21, 2016, 04:49:09 PM
Quote from: Bughunter S. Thomson on Sep 21, 2016, 04:12:06 PM
So I got this in the post finally.
Gotta say, I'm disappointed. The illustrations look very cheap and the whole design of the book feels like it's aimed at kids, which kind of contrasts with the content. Kind of reminds me of the DK Publishing info books.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/4b/7a/d7/4b7ad79877bfdb752ae2577956a75d5c.jpg
I love these type of books, with pictures in color and panels with quick facts, descriptions..and stats. Is that how evey page is? These make great washroom companions after a game of spider solitaire on the old ipod lol.
That's the perfect way to describe it - A book to read on the john while ejecting payloads. Yeah it's a lot like that.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/902252-alien-the-weyland-yutani-report-collectors-edition-005.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fweyland-ycorporation%2Fimages%2F1%2F1a%2FAlien_The_Weyland-Yutani_Report2.jpeg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20140902173117&hash=66353e4d404e76b4eef9b04a8a9cc47137531fd8)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-NgqTD3pnwCM%2FVRoo1VCGoVI%2FAAAAAAAAA9Q%2FiJ7yHiMcZ8g%2Fs1600%2F9781608873166_Page_08.jpg&hash=34cb92bf3746003a2e26a9553f7956ca4f3463cf)
I think I have just been spoiled by the Titan Books movie series. I have quite a few, and the quality is great in each. The overall design feels like it could have been published about 15 years ago. Which might appeal to some I guess. I've yet to finish reading it, maybe I'll feel different when I'm done.
On the John sure, ejecting payloads...I don't know about that man lol.
It doesn't look cheap, nice designs..
Which book is that by the way? The one with te Cheetah. :P
Quote from: Nostromo on Sep 21, 2016, 05:00:12 PM
On the John sure, ejecting payloads...I don't know about that man lol.
It doesn't look cheap, nice designs..
Which book is that by the way? The one with te Cheetah. :P
Haha
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/34/b1/01/34b101e2971d16939c2c85ab2d0582dd.jpg)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 21, 2016, 04:32:18 PMDo we know for a fact that motion trackers key off of body heat?
We're not talking about the motion trackers. The Marines have infra-red eyepieces, yet Dietrich looks directly at one hiding right next to her and she never sees it.
The trackers seem to detect the Aliens just fine.
How do the Hish see them?
According to the games and the AVP films, with a vision mode that doesn't key on infra-red.
lol "cheap illustrations"
QuoteSure. But when the major con is "stood right out in the open and offering a prime target", it starts to seem a little unbalanced.
Seems to be a lot of baseless assumptions about smart gun capabilities. The CMTM has an illustration of a gunner firing from behind cover. Sure firing from prone on your back is a little silly (since there's no reason you couldn't fire it lying on your stomach), but again it seems like if the weapon can't cover every eventuality - it's "dumb".
QuoteMore to the point, if the gun automatically tracks individual targets, it's gonna be useless for suppressive fire, which is what keeps the enemy's heads down and is the main reason we use machine guns in the first place.
Another baseless assumption. The first time Vasquez fires the gun in the hive, she's not tracking targets.
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2016, 10:11:30 PM
Another baseless assumption. The first time Vasquez fires the gun in the hive, she's not tracking targets.
I always found it ironic that Vasquez and Drake sprayed heavy machinegun fire in the bowels of the atmosphere processor and yet didn't cause the damage that ultimately led to its overload.
Too bad Dietrich roasted Frost and his bag of ammo or else the others might have been able to unsling their pulse rifles and do some meaningful damage against the aliens in the nest.
(https://i.imgur.com/8MR9Cgk.gif)
I don't care. Like I said, it is the coolest sci-fi gun EVER MADE in ANY FRANCHISE and by a LONG SHOT (lol, those caps are how much I believe that statement.)
The fact that in the army you never semi-permanently tether yourself to heavy equipment is a given. There are so many reasons why this gun (the way it is there) would never be used,.. From the sheer size of it, to the ginormous muzzle flash, to all the edges and protrusions that can catch on things. But it doesn't matter, it is the coolest ever.
Does anyone know where you can buy a replica? I think I like it too much unfortunately.
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2016, 10:11:30 PM
lol "cheap illustrations"
To each their own, I guess. I can't agree with you at all though, Thompson.
QuoteThe CMTM has an illustration of a gunner firing from behind cover. Sure firing from prone on your back is a little silly (since there's no reason you couldn't fire it lying on your stomach), but again it seems like if the weapon can't cover every eventuality - it's "dumb".
I don't have the book handy to check the illustration but surely the harness would allow for some degree of firing around cover? It'd probably be more awkward but something like these things
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xm7QghG3nrY/maxresdefault.jpg)
But then again, I suppose the trigger mechanism was on the handhold a little further down the smartgun making that somewhat impractical.
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2016, 10:11:30 PMThe CMTM has an illustration of a gunner firing from behind cover.
Sure, my issue is how hindered your mobility would be with this giant gun swinging around in front of you attached to your pelvis. Even in the scene where the Marines first approach the colony you can see how awkwardly Goldstein and Rolston have to move, and they're only going at a jog. Try sprinting to cover with it.
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2016, 10:11:30 PM...it seems like if the weapon can't cover every eventuality - it's "dumb".
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is stuff like requiring you to lie down on your back in the middle of a firefight is
egregiously dumb. The fact Brimmicombe even went down that route just proves how hard he had to try to justify it in a real shooting match. How quickly do you think you could actually get up from lying prone on your back with that enormous gun weighing you down? "Fall back! Fall Back! Go! Go! Go! Wait... Where's Roper?" "He's just getting up, Sarge. Anders is helping him."
And you couldn't fire it on your front because of where the arm attaches, and the front of the left hip.
It's attached to the hip, not in front of it.
It's at the front. Depending on how the arm is hinged, it would would dig into the floor (and you). Plus the gun has to be held on the right because of where the foregrip is, so you'd need to lie on top of the arm. That's not gonna work.
Just a note: laying
prone is face down. Laying face up is
supine.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 22, 2016, 07:55:28 AM
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is stuff like requiring you to lie down on your back in the middle of a firefight is egregiously dumb. The fact Brimmicombe even went down that route just proves how hard he had to try to justify it in a real shooting match.
I don't understand why LBW didn't just introduce a different SAW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad_automatic_weapon) into the USCM arsenal that they could be equipped with for different types of missions. The CMTM made up whole
vehicles that didn't appear in the films, so why not weapons too?
Say what you will about A:CM, at least it gave the marines a variety of firearms.
Here you go, SM. Can I get a "quite?"
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F10yl5aw.jpg&hash=142a693c1d29aff0a95c141c14aa808945ebaeb5)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Favp%2Fimages%2F6%2F66%2FHudson_and_Vasquez_%28with_TNR_mounting_plate%29_in_HH.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20141001220125&hash=f24c14d24537d817931bf0100f509e5c9c399ed9)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 22, 2016, 07:04:14 PM
Just a note: laying prone is face down. Laying face up is supine.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 22, 2016, 07:55:28 AM
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is stuff like requiring you to lie down on your back in the middle of a firefight is egregiously dumb. The fact Brimmicombe even went down that route just proves how hard he had to try to justify it in a real shooting match.
I don't understand why LBW didn't just introduce a different SAW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad_automatic_weapon) into the USCM arsenal that they could be equipped with for different types of missions. The CMTM made up whole vehicles that didn't appear in the films, so why not weapons too?
Say what you will about A:CM, at least it gave the marines a variety of firearms.
Here you go, SM. Can I get a "quite?"
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F10yl5aw.jpg&hash=142a693c1d29aff0a95c141c14aa808945ebaeb5)
LBW kind of does though. 80% of the info on the Smart Gun in the CMTM is about what a terrible gun it is, and how no one likes using it. That right there makes it believable again for me.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 22, 2016, 07:04:14 PM
Just a note: laying prone is face down. Laying face up is supine.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 22, 2016, 07:55:28 AM
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is stuff like requiring you to lie down on your back in the middle of a firefight is egregiously dumb. The fact Brimmicombe even went down that route just proves how hard he had to try to justify it in a real shooting match.
I don't understand why LBW didn't just introduce a different SAW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad_automatic_weapon) into the USCM arsenal that they could be equipped with for different types of missions. The CMTM made up whole vehicles that didn't appear in the films, so why not weapons too?
Say what you will about A:CM, at least it gave the marines a variety of firearms.
Here you go, SM. Can I get a "quite?"
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F10yl5aw.jpg&hash=142a693c1d29aff0a95c141c14aa808945ebaeb5)
I can't see the pic so you can have an "Indeed" instead.
QuoteLBW kind of does though. 80% of the info on the Smart Gun in the CMTM is about what a terrible gun it is, and how no one likes using it. That right there makes it believable again for me.
There's one quote about how M56s sucked in desert environments due to heat and sand. Where's the rest of the text about how terrible it is? Another quote says they all have different 'personalities' and if you find a good one, hang onto it, and another quote talks about how spooky the aim is, with bursts of bullets all hitting the exact same point on the target - neither of these are saying the gun is terrible. Is there stuff elsewhere in the book I missed?
Quote from: SM on Sep 23, 2016, 12:45:31 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 22, 2016, 07:04:14 PM
Just a note: laying prone is face down. Laying face up is supine.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 22, 2016, 07:55:28 AM
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is stuff like requiring you to lie down on your back in the middle of a firefight is egregiously dumb. The fact Brimmicombe even went down that route just proves how hard he had to try to justify it in a real shooting match.
I don't understand why LBW didn't just introduce a different SAW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad_automatic_weapon) into the USCM arsenal that they could be equipped with for different types of missions. The CMTM made up whole vehicles that didn't appear in the films, so why not weapons too?
Say what you will about A:CM, at least it gave the marines a variety of firearms.
Here you go, SM. Can I get a "quite?"
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F10yl5aw.jpg&hash=142a693c1d29aff0a95c141c14aa808945ebaeb5)
I can't see the pic so you can have an "Indeed" instead.
QuoteLBW kind of does though. 80% of the info on the Smart Gun in the CMTM is about what a terrible gun it is, and how no one likes using it. That right there makes it believable again for me.
There's one quote about how M56s sucked in desert environments due to heat and sand. Where's the rest of the text about how terrible it is? Another quote says they all have different 'personalities' and if you find a good one, hang onto it, and another quote talks about how spooky the aim is, with bursts of bullets all hitting the exact same point on the target - neither of these are saying the gun is terrible. Is there stuff elsewhere in the book I missed?
I don't know, you may perceive it differently than I did when I read it (wouldn't be the first time!). But I got a distinct vibe that the gun was an unreliable lemon. I mean, there are 4 quotes on the M56 and these are three of them. (The fourth says it's best not to "fight" the gun.)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi67.tinypic.com%2F2cz7tyf.jpg&hash=376ebf4fc393fa0c02b136b89817a615dc2f7c92)
I can't see the picture unfortunately, but there's five quotes and one of them is negative. The rest of the non-quote text is neutral matter-of-fact stuff about the gun.
How did I end up pumping up the tyres of smart guns and the CMTM on a thread about WYR...
Quote from: SM on Sep 23, 2016, 02:58:09 AM
I can't see the picture unfortunately, but there's five quotes and one of them is negative.
The three quotes shown are all negative. The first is negative because the gun is useless in a desert, the second says you need to manually cock the gun for the first round or it'll jam, and the third is about how inconsistent they were with their personalities.
None of them mention problems with the rig itself being in the way, though.
Quote from: SM on Sep 23, 2016, 02:58:09 AM
I can't see the picture unfortunately, but there's five quotes and one of them is negative. The rest of the non-quote text is neutral matter-of-fact stuff about the gun.
How did I end up pumping up the tyres of smart guns and the CMTM on a thread about WYR...
Dude we really read things differently don't we :)
Quote from: SM on Sep 23, 2016, 02:58:09 AM
How did I end up pumping up the tyres of smart guns and the CMTM on a thread about WYR...
You have your reasons. That even you don't know what they are just goes to show mysterious you really are.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 23, 2016, 03:11:49 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 23, 2016, 02:58:09 AM
I can't see the picture unfortunately, but there's five quotes and one of them is negative.
The three quotes shown are all negative. The first is negative because the gun is useless in a desert, the second says you need to manually cock the gun for the first round or it'll jam, and the third is about how inconsistent they were with their personalities.
None of them mention problems with the rig itself being in the way, though.
I didn't read either of the second two as being especially negative. Just anecdotal quirks with the gun, neither positive nor negative.
Certainly doesn't equate to "80% of the info on the Smart Gun in the CMTM is about what a terrible gun it is".
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 21, 2016, 12:53:58 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 21, 2016, 12:22:28 PMWhile I agree that the Smartgun is a goofy weapon from a logic standpoint, it's worth pointing out that you can turn the tracking off (in the games) or at least fire it without tracking targets (we see both Vasquez and Drake do it).
True, but in that case you may as well ditch the harness entirely and have a regular machine gun that allows you to move around more freely.
May I direct your attention to the Rule of Cool....
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 22, 2016, 04:49:07 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 21, 2016, 10:11:30 PM
Another baseless assumption. The first time Vasquez fires the gun in the hive, she's not tracking targets.
I always found it ironic that Vasquez and Drake sprayed heavy machinegun fire in the bowels of the atmosphere processor and yet didn't cause the damage that ultimately led to its overload.
I always figured the Smartgun fire was a contributing factor to the catastrophic damage. Like yeah it probably wasn't as damaging as a Dropship crashing into it, but the gunfire likely wasn't helping anything.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 22, 2016, 07:04:14 PM
Just a note: laying prone is face down. Laying face up is supine.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 22, 2016, 07:55:28 AM
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is stuff like requiring you to lie down on your back in the middle of a firefight is egregiously dumb. The fact Brimmicombe even went down that route just proves how hard he had to try to justify it in a real shooting match.
I don't understand why LBW didn't just introduce a different SAW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad_automatic_weapon) into the USCM arsenal that they could be equipped with for different types of missions. The CMTM made up whole vehicles that didn't appear in the films, so why not weapons too?
Say what you will about A:CM, at least it gave the marines a variety of firearms.
Here you go, SM. Can I get a "quite?"
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2F10yl5aw.jpg&hash=142a693c1d29aff0a95c141c14aa808945ebaeb5)
The CMTM makes up a couple guns (the PIG, SADAR, off the top of my head), and I can kind of understand why it didn't bother detailing some of the other guns you see in the Sulaco since they're almost entirely unmodified real-world guns (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Aliens#Rifles).
The Sulaco did have some modified Lewis Guns apparently, and enough of them are hidden in their storage cage that the CMTM could have fudged the details and turned them into super-cool sci-fi LMGs.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 23, 2016, 04:51:42 AMI always figured the Smartgun fire was a contributing factor to the catastrophic damage. Like yeah it probably wasn't as damaging as a Dropship crashing into it, but the gunfire likely wasn't helping anything.
The primary heat exchangers were deep in the bowels of the AP and the dropship's crash didn't appear to penetrate that far inside the structure. Maybe Bishop was just covering for Drake and Vasquez dooming them all. :)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 23, 2016, 04:51:42 AMThe CMTM makes up a couple guns (the PIG, SADAR, off the top of my head), and I can kind of understand why it didn't bother detailing some of the other guns you see in the Sulaco since they're almost entirely unmodified real-world guns (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Aliens#Rifles). The Sulaco did have some modified Lewis Guns apparently, and enough of them are hidden in their storage cage that the CMTM could have fudged the details and turned them into super-cool sci-fi LMGs.
I think I would have preferred the CMTM to simply acknowledge the limitations of the smart gun and mention that the Lewis Guns were the preferred LMGs for stand-up fights.
Quote
I think I would have preferred the CMTM to simply acknowledge the limitations of the smart gun and mention that the Lewis Guns were the preferred LMGs for stand-up fights.
I can definitely agree with that.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 26, 2016, 06:08:55 AM
Quote
I think I would have preferred the CMTM to simply acknowledge the limitations of the smart gun and mention that the Lewis Guns were the preferred LMGs for stand-up fights.
I can definitely agree with that.
I don't suppose A:CM or any other EU stories gave the marines another light or medium machine gun that could have been the modified Lewis? I'm calling upon your extensive knowledge of that stuff now so don't disappoint me. ;D
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 26, 2016, 09:03:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 26, 2016, 06:08:55 AM
Quote
I think I would have preferred the CMTM to simply acknowledge the limitations of the smart gun and mention that the Lewis Guns were the preferred LMGs for stand-up fights.
I can definitely agree with that.
I don't suppose A:CM or any other EU stories gave the marines another light or medium machine gun that could have been the modified Lewis? I'm calling upon your extensive knowledge of that stuff now so don't disappoint me. ;D
A:CM doesn't have any other heavy fully-automatic weapons aside from the M56 Smartgun.
No specific gun names spring to mind from elsewhere in the EU, but the comics are littered with random "generic sci-fi guns" that could probably fit the bill if I went digging (although I'm confident none were intentionally drawn to resemble the Lewis Gun).
I don't remember if the Aliens Adventure Game RPG book gave the Marines any special ordnance, but I can check my copy in a little bit. That book predated the CMTM by several years, in fact.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 23, 2016, 04:51:42 AMMay I direct your attention to the Rule of Cool....
Again, I never said that it isn't a cool piece of kit. It's just kinda ridiculous and flawed from a logical point of view, and I find it odd when people insist it isn't. It's obviously baloney.
Those "people" eh?
Quote from: SM on Oct 04, 2016, 10:51:56 AMThose "people" eh?
Indeed.
I hate most people. There are times when I look at people and I see nothing worth liking.
I see the worst in people. I don't need to look past seeing them to get all I need. I've built my hatreds up over the years, little by little, SM... to have you here gives me a second breath. I can't keep doing this on my own with these... people.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 04, 2016, 08:01:32 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 23, 2016, 04:51:42 AMMay I direct your attention to the Rule of Cool....
Again, I never said that it isn't a cool piece of kit. It's just kinda ridiculous and flawed from a logical point of view, and I find it odd when people insist it isn't. It's obviously baloney.
The point is that it doesn't matter if it's illogical baloney if the thing in question is cool enough. :)
How does Superman fly? Like, what are the mechanics that make it possible?
Doesn't matter, his being able to fly is cool enough on its own.
To be fair, I hate Superman :P
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 05, 2016, 08:36:09 AMTo be fair, I hate Superman :P
You strike me as more of a Constantine fan.
Have you reversed your opinion about the smart gun yet?
Sooo... I just picked up a copy of this (std. ed.). Can't wait to dive in! :-)
Let us know if you spot any information regarding the size of LV-426.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 11, 2017, 01:58:41 AM
Let us know if you spot any information regarding the size of LV-426.
Right there on page 161 the whole darn time..
...20 meters
Page 161 is my acid gun :P
Quote from: locusta on Jan 11, 2017, 11:30:41 AM
Page 161 is my acid gun :P
Did you invent the concept and design as well or did they just ask you to illustrate it from their own ideas?
It was a co-operative design. Means, the editor had some ideas (even many more, but FOX was against a few), but he just threw me lines like an acid gun, shock collars for warriors, Egg incubator and Xeno parts refurbished as armor or protection (like AVP skull shield). I did quick concepts and cos of time pressure (crazy one), I actually built everything in 3D instantly from scratch.
Well, the Xeno parts I took from the existing meshes and touched them up to fit the need, the Fetus was done quickly new and the egg grabbing was a few nights of model marathon.
The gun idea was entirely realized by my super soaker inspiration.
The electro shockers on the warriors I cam up with, cos I hat the collar idea, as I think they make the ALIENS look like dogs and there are these stupid concepts out with the red dog collar on an Warrior (A:CM game as well. puke).
And that was exactly three years ago now :D
I would like to see more. :)
Out of curiosity, are you familiar with Ansel Hsiao's work? I'd characterize him as your Star Wars counterpart, except he does ships instead of aliens.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ansel_Hsiao
Quote from: locusta on Feb 12, 2017, 10:47:00 PM
It was a co-operative design. Means, the editor had some ideas (even many more, but FOX was against a few), but he just threw me lines like an acid gun, shock collars for warriors, Egg incubator and Xeno parts refurbished as armor or protection (like AVP skull shield). I did quick concepts and cos of time pressure (crazy one), I actually built everything in 3D instantly from scratch.
Well, the Xeno parts I took from the existing meshes and touched them up to fit the need, the Fetus was done quickly new and the egg grabbing was a few nights of model marathon.
The gun idea was entirely realized by my super soaker inspiration.
The electro shockers on the warriors I cam up with, cos I hat the collar idea, as I think they make the ALIENS look like dogs and there are these stupid concepts out with the red dog collar on an Warrior (A:CM game as well. puke).
And that was exactly three years ago now :D
I'd love to see other concepts as well if you're able to post them or talk about them.
Also the red dog collar in A:CM was a shout-out to a specific Aliens fan who cosplays as an Alien with a red dog collar.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg14.deviantart.net%2Fa2c4%2Fi%2F2015%2F124%2F4%2F2%2Falien_vs_predator_by_akraruphotography-d21rcsd.jpg&hash=38b4baee7a839f1521d465eccdf36085a2e8ae55)
Same as some of the Colonial Marines were modeled after marine cosplayers from the same group. Or at least their names or armor. I can't remember specifically. The group helped them advertise the game as the various events and I always liked that they did that.
Do you have a full set of Hicks armor and uniform to go with your shotgun?
Nope, only the stuff seen in the pictures was modeled. Far too less time. Would have loved to make a full body and was my initial idea. As other ideas in that regard as well. It was just crazy less time, not only from the publishers schedule, but from my own daily work and as my son was just born back then. Well, maybe next time :D :D :D
Only just now finding this. Nice reading the input from the author and those involved with the book. Not an easy project: weaving a coherent tale of all the Alien stories, but I'm glad someone waded into it and brought in ardent fans for support.
Quote from: locusta on Feb 14, 2017, 08:40:22 PM
Nope, only the stuff seen in the pictures was modeled. Far too less time. Would have loved to make a full body and was my initial idea. As other ideas in that regard as well. It was just crazy less time, not only from the publishers schedule, but from my own daily work and as my son was just born back then. Well, maybe next time :D :D :D
When are they going to come their senses and throw enough money at you to make sure you can create art full time?
Why is this book called the 'Weyland Yutani Report' when it includes content in the time line that occurs long after Weyland Yutani has ceased to exist?
Shouldn't it be called 'The Walmart Report'? ???
Just askin'.
-Windebieste.
It was supposedly written in the timeframe of Sea of Sorrows when Wey-Yu were a thing again.
...er, wut? Really? lol.
Sorry, no. I haven't read it.
That's a perfect example of exactly the kind of reason I don't read those books. The fan service is just too rich.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 28, 2017, 09:16:20 AM
It was supposedly written in the timeframe of Sea of Sorrows when Wey-Yu were a thing again.
It was produced near the end of 2381. Sea of Sorrows was over a century later.
I don't ever remember seeing a fictional date of publication in the book. It just made it clear it was sometime after the USM had gone under and shortly before W-Y re-emerged as a serious power.
Which they did by cleaning up the wreckage of the Auriga, getting good publicity.
Sea of sorrows is not too bad, I just don't like the supernatural angle it has, it makes it just as far fetched if not more so than Alien: Resurrection, which it actually references I believe.
I still need to get my hands on the W-Y report too, I am guessing the collector's edition is long gone by now.
The standard edition was pretty reasonable and you honestly don't miss out on much.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 28, 2017, 12:02:55 PM
I don't ever remember seeing a fictional date of publication in the book. It just made it clear it was sometime after the USM had gone under and shortly before W-Y re-emerged as a serious power.
P. 157. "It has only been months since the crash landing of the USM Auriga."
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 28, 2017, 12:18:01 PM
The standard edition was pretty reasonable and you honestly don't miss out on much.
Good to know, thanks. The only reason I never pre-ordered or got the collector's was its absurd price. I though I would wait and see if it lowered with time.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 28, 2017, 12:18:01 PM
The standard edition was pretty reasonable and you honestly don't miss out on much.
What does the collectors edition have that the std. Edition lacks?
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 28, 2017, 01:41:05 PMWhat does the collectors edition have that the std. Edition lacks?
Clicky (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Alien%3A_The_Weyland-Yutani_Report#Collectors.27_Edition).
The book's essentially identical. All you get are some added inserts and that funky slipcase.
Quote from: windebieste on Apr 28, 2017, 09:26:21 AM
...er, wut? Really? lol.
Sorry, no. I haven't read it.
That's a perfect example of exactly the kind of reason I don't read those books. The fan service is just too rich.
-Windebieste.
The book is worth it just for Locusta's art alone, but it's a fun recap of the alien film universe and definitely worth the $30 bucks I got it for on Amazon.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 28, 2017, 01:44:14 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Apr 28, 2017, 01:41:05 PMWhat does the collectors edition have that the std. Edition lacks?
Clicky (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Alien%3A_The_Weyland-Yutani_Report#Collectors.27_Edition).
The book's essentially identical. All you get are some added inserts and that funky slipcase.
Thanks!
Quote from: 426Buddy on Apr 28, 2017, 02:38:25 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Apr 28, 2017, 09:26:21 AM
...er, wut? Really? lol.
Sorry, no. I haven't read it.
That's a perfect example of exactly the kind of reason I don't read those books. The fan service is just too rich.
-Windebieste.
The book is worth it just for Locusta's art alone, but it's a fun recap of the alien film universe and definitely worth the $30 bucks I got it for on Amazon.
I agree! I've been keeping up with all the newer books (although falling behind on comics), and this would have to be one of my favorites! Adds nice little tid bits about character backgrounds and such. I was about half way through this book when I got "bug hunt." I started reading big hunt (largely disappointed with it so far), but plan to return to WY report very soon. It's easy to stop and start again too, which I like. The artwork is beautiful! I'm really intrigued by the "star beast" excerpt too; Morse was one character I always wanted to see more of, after alien 3, and the "star beast" excerpt is the closest we have ever been to that. I'm still hoping for a full on "star beast" book telling the story through Morse's eyes, and maybe a little bit about what happened to him afterwards.
I wonder Alien Bible 10 page book will override report book ?
Quote from: windebieste on Apr 28, 2017, 09:26:21 AM
...er, wut? Really? lol.
Sorry, no. I haven't read it.
That's a perfect example of exactly the kind of reason I don't read those books. The fan service is just too rich.
-Windebieste.
That was one of my issues with the WY Report at first, but after talking with the author I understand why it's done that way. The book's purpose is an in-universe recap of the Alien movies (and Prometheus), and it's catering to the things that casual fans liked or remembered the best. It's why WY is back, or why the Pulse Rifle gets a multi-page spread touting it as the ultimate Alien-killing weapon (despite being centuries old when the book is set), or why the first two Alien movies get the lion's share of the content.
Viewed strictly as an in-universe document it feels really out of place, but viewed in the context of the book's out-of-universe purpose, it makes a lot more sense.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 29, 2017, 03:09:34 AM
It's why WY is back, or why the Pulse Rifle gets a multi-page spread touting it as the ultimate Alien-killing weapon(despite being centuries old when the book is set)
As a fan I can say I am not happy to see W-Y back or the Pulse Rifle, no I don't hate them, quite the opposite in fact, I just think the franchise needs to move away from the second movie's shadow which means dropping the "pulse rifle and CMs with Vietnam era attitude" thing and also move away from the "evil bond villain spectre company" angle which is not only tiresome but really stupid, I prefer them to be ambiguous and morally grey like they were in first three films and not the camp moustache twirling folks we get in the eu . Hell even
Spoiler
Defiance is getting this
As an in-universe thing it is fine because it vastly expands a number of elements that have never really been expanded on in the past. The book does a retelling of each movie in the form of a historical archive so it is perfectly fine there are sections detailing the pulse rifle etc. I see no problem there.
And Weyland Yutani was resurrected before this book came to pass.
Cheesy... just as cheesy as the Enterprise appearing, re appearing and appearing again - even when it's destroyed. Cheese, cheese, cheese and more cheese. ...with extra helpings of cheese. lol.
-Windebieste.
I agree it's comeback was not necessary.
Quote from: windebieste on Apr 28, 2017, 09:26:21 AM
That's a perfect example of exactly the kind of reason I don't read those books. The fan service is just too rich.
Indeed. I couldn't get even through the first one because of the gratuitous inclusion of Ripley.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Apr 29, 2017, 10:52:09 AM
As an in-universe thing it is fine because it vastly expands a number of elements that have never really been expanded on in the past. The book does a retelling of each movie in the form of a historical archive so it is perfectly fine there are sections detailing the pulse rifle etc. I see no problem there.
And Weyland Yutani was resurrected before this book came to pass.
Detailing the pulse rifle is fine, but not offering any insight into any other weapons in the series (i.e., ones that didn't get an entire sub-chapter in a previous book) is pretty wacky, and then declaring it the Best Alien Killing Weapon Ever is a little weird and fanboyish. Like I said, in-universe it seems like a bizarre shift in priorities (and why bother spending pages on the Pulse Rifle when, from the WY Report's in-universe perspective, a much more comprehensive in-universe document already exists?), but as a fan-service book, it makes a lot more sense.
Also I wouldn't say it really "vastly" expands on anything we didn't already know from the movies. Sure it adds some cool stuff, but it's nothing huge (and according to the author, that was intentional).
It clarifies a great deal of points, such as the synthetic history, Special Order 937, Michael Bishop and many other bits to help solidify and tighten up the lore. It's a great source book for the franchise and I think it's unfair to criticise it because they tried to present it as an in-universe archive rather than just a standard supplementary material book.
Yea I agree. Presented as "in universe" was a unique and fun approach. I found it refreshing actually.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Apr 29, 2017, 04:28:55 PM
It clarifies a great deal of points, such as the synthetic history, Special Order 937, Michael Bishop and many other bits to help solidify and tighten up the lore. It's a great source book for the franchise and I think it's unfair to criticise it because they tried to present it as an in-universe archive rather than just a standard supplementary material book.
I think it's a pretty fair criticism. As an in-universe archive, it's creative but flawed. As a supplementary book for fans, it's pretty cool and worth checking out.
There was a LOT more they could have done with the concept if it was written as an in-universe archive first, and a supplementary book second - but according to the author, that wasn't FOX's goal for the project.
I'm still not getting these 'flaws' you speak of. By the time frame the book is written Wey-Yu own the Colonial Marines so they will have extensive access to their military archives, so when detailing the incident on LV-426 in 2179 I'm not really understanding why they wouldn't demonstrate the effectiveness of the weapons of that era.
What weapons are missing exactly? The stuff from Resurrection that the pirates use? Why would they feature in a Wey-Yu book?
@Locusta: Because you hinted in your book which is great by the way that eggs could be created by a single drone as shown in Alien DC, i would like to ask you for your theory how it exactly happens.
Gesendet von meinem SM-G530FZ mit Tapatalk
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Apr 30, 2017, 01:29:27 PM
I'm still not getting these 'flaws' you speak of. By the time frame the book is written Wey-Yu own the Colonial Marines so they will have extensive access to their military archives, so when detailing the incident on LV-426 in 2179 I'm not really understanding why they wouldn't demonstrate the effectiveness of the weapons of that era.
What weapons are missing exactly? The stuff from Resurrection that the pirates use? Why would they feature in a Wey-Yu book?
The Company didn't own the USCM at that point.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Apr 30, 2017, 01:29:27 PM
I'm still not getting these 'flaws' you speak of. By the time frame the book is written Wey-Yu own the Colonial Marines so they will have extensive access to their military archives, so when detailing the incident on LV-426 in 2179 I'm not really understanding why they wouldn't demonstrate the effectiveness of the weapons of that era.
What weapons are missing exactly? The stuff from Resurrection that the pirates use? Why would they feature in a Wey-Yu book?
The book frames the Pulse Rifle as being the all-time greatest Alien-killing weapon, despite the weapon being used, like, once (in 'Aliens') and being literally 200+ years out of date by the timeframe the book is meant to take place.
If they had framed it as "this is one of the vintage guns of that era", that'd be one thing. But instead the book straight up describes the Pulse Rifle as the All-Time Ultimate Weapon. I'd get specific quotes but I don't have my copy of the WY Report unpacked yet.
As for missing weapons, the Lacrima-99 and Draco Double Burner come to mind. I'm pretty sure they get mentioned, but they get nowhere near the level of attention and detail that the Pulse Rifle gets. It feels like fan-service, and according to the author, that was on purpose. The Pulse Rifle gets more focus because it's the gun everyone remembers and likes, from the movie everyone likes.
The pulse rifle probably is - based on records available of xenomorph encounters. Again your are being extremely nit-pickety here. The weapons from Resurrection were poor in comparison and again were not W-Y tech anyway so unlikely to receive comprehensive coverage in this book. Considering most books of this type are 'fan service' I don't think it matters in the slightest.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on May 01, 2017, 09:01:31 AM
The pulse rifle probably is - based on records available of xenomorph encounters. Again your are being extremely nit-pickety here. The weapons from Resurrection were poor in comparison and again were not W-Y tech anyway so unlikely to receive comprehensive coverage in this book. Considering most books of this type are 'fan service' I don't think it matters in the slightest.
The pulse rifle isn't WY tech either, and it's a 200 year old gun.
We don't know what the Resurrection weapons are like because we don't see them in action and we know next to nothing about them. :P
My point is that if the book wasn't being fan-service-centric, there'd have been better ways to frame the pulse rifle (and other things) as being The Best Ever while still being an in-universe document. Taken strictly as an in-universe document, the presentation is pretty lacking, often cotnradictory, and doesn't really have a lot of reasoning behind it. Framed as a fan-supplement book whose focus is the popular movies and the things fans like, the presentation makes a lot more sense.
Does the death of Alien 5 mean we can finally stick a fork in the derelict too?
Quote from: Local Trouble on May 02, 2017, 02:58:34 AM
Does the death of Alien 5 mean we can finally stick a fork in the derelict too?
No, why would it?
Quote from: SM on Apr 30, 2017, 08:32:08 PM
The Company didn't own the USCM at that point.
I know they didn't, hence why I said at the time the book was written.
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 02, 2017, 02:29:40 AM
The pulse rifle isn't WY tech either, and it's a 200 year old gun.
We don't know what the Resurrection weapons are like because we don't see them in action and we know next to nothing about them. :P
My point is that if the book wasn't being fan-service-centric, there'd have been better ways to frame the pulse rifle (and other things) as being The Best Ever while still being an in-universe document. Taken strictly as an in-universe document, the presentation is pretty lacking, often cotnradictory, and doesn't really have a lot of reasoning behind it. Framed as a fan-supplement book whose focus is the popular movies and the things fans like, the presentation makes a lot more sense.
The pulse rifle technically is at the time the book was written, and regardless they have access to extensive archives on the weapon, what of it? In documented encounters with the Alien it is hailed as the best ever because from what we do know it was the most effective. No issue there. A few posts back you wanted to argue a case for the resurrection weapons but now seemingly admit we know nothing about them.
I fail to see what supplementary books are not written with 'fan-service' in mind. This is nit-picking to the extreme.
Will we get another in-universe report book after alien covenant ?
Not any time soon.
I finally made it all the way through this thread. It was.. an experience.
That being said, the Weyland Yutani Report is essential to any fan's Alien lit collection. Absolutely beautifully brought together, guys. Bravo.
I love that it was written from the point of view of the company, and how the point of view become a bit snarky when talking about the USM and the events surrounding Resurrection.
Also, I noticed the character backgrounds in Prometheus' section tried to explain why some of the members made the poor choices they did. And because the company acknowledged that poor choices were made, I created my own head canon that I kinda stick with to justify why people like Fifield and Milburn were hired in the first place. I've posted this theory elsewhere, but I keep it in my notes app to just pose the question in the future.
Why does Millburn handle the Hammerpede the way he does? Why do some characters seem to lack common sense? We all know Vickers didn't necessarily adore her father to any extent. Understandably so, considering Weyland's non-remorseful words of "David is the son I never had."
The Weyland-Yutani Report states Vickers was personally responsible for choosing the entire crew of the Prometheus, save for Shaw, Holloway, and of course David who were chosen by Weyland.
Seeing as Vickers was in line to become CEO after her father's death and given that she had a less than stellar relationship with him, I can definitely see Vickers' resentment being so strong that she purposely sabotaged the Prometheus mission by recruiting unqualified, loose-cannon individuals and scientists so that Weyland wouldn't have the success he hoped for during the mission.
"Time to go home."
Quote from: CoalescedChaos on May 03, 2017, 02:52:17 PM
Why does Millburn handle the Hammerpede the way he does? Why do some characters seem to lack common sense? We all know Vickers didn't necessarily adore her father to any extent. Understandably so, considering Weyland's non-remorseful words of "David is the son I never had."
The Weyland-Yutani Report states Vickers was personally responsible for choosing the entire crew of the Prometheus, save for Shaw, Holloway, and of course David who were chosen by Weyland.
Seeing as Vickers was in line to become CEO after her father's death and given that she had a less than stellar relationship with him, I can definitely see Vickers' resentment being so strong that she purposely sabotaged the Prometheus mission by recruiting unqualified, loose-cannon individuals and scientists so that Weyland wouldn't have the success he hoped for during the mission.
"Time to go home."
Problem with that theory though is that Vickers would also sabotage her own career in the process since it would be
her decision to bring those "unqualified" on board and thus her fault.
Vickers recruiting people meant she would have control over them, rather than Shaw and Holloway.
QuoteI know they didn't, hence why I said at the time the book was written.
The Company didn't own the USCM at the time the book was written.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on May 02, 2017, 08:05:59 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 30, 2017, 08:32:08 PM
The Company didn't own the USCM at that point.
I know they didn't, hence why I said at the time the book was written.
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 02, 2017, 02:29:40 AM
The pulse rifle isn't WY tech either, and it's a 200 year old gun.
We don't know what the Resurrection weapons are like because we don't see them in action and we know next to nothing about them. :P
My point is that if the book wasn't being fan-service-centric, there'd have been better ways to frame the pulse rifle (and other things) as being The Best Ever while still being an in-universe document. Taken strictly as an in-universe document, the presentation is pretty lacking, often cotnradictory, and doesn't really have a lot of reasoning behind it. Framed as a fan-supplement book whose focus is the popular movies and the things fans like, the presentation makes a lot more sense.
The pulse rifle technically is at the time the book was written, and regardless they have access to extensive archives on the weapon, what of it? In documented encounters with the Alien it is hailed as the best ever because from what we do know it was the most effective. No issue there. A few posts back you wanted to argue a case for the resurrection weapons but now seemingly admit we know nothing about them.
I fail to see what supplementary books are not written with 'fan-service' in mind. This is nit-picking to the extreme.
If the book had said the Pulse Rifle was "apparently effective" in the single encounter it gets used in, that'd be one thing. claiming it's the best ever is like claiming in 1798 that George Washington was "the best President ever". It's an extremely limited data set, and saying it's the best ever reeks of fanservice.
We know nothing about the Resurrection weapons because the book doesn't spend any time on them, because it'd rather fellate the Pulse Rifle (a weapon that had its own chapter in the USCM Tech Manual) with a multi-page spread.
The USCM Tech Manual is real light on fan service, considering 98% of the book is fabricated from whole cloth.
It's not nit-picking when fan-service drags down the quality and impact of the finished product.
When fan-service is the book's
goal, as it was with the WY Report according to the author, then yeah it's fair to say it achieved its goal.
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 04, 2017, 03:01:48 AM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on May 02, 2017, 08:05:59 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 30, 2017, 08:32:08 PM
The Company didn't own the USCM at that point.
I know they didn't, hence why I said at the time the book was written.
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 02, 2017, 02:29:40 AM
The pulse rifle isn't WY tech either, and it's a 200 year old gun.
We don't know what the Resurrection weapons are like because we don't see them in action and we know next to nothing about them. :P
My point is that if the book wasn't being fan-service-centric, there'd have been better ways to frame the pulse rifle (and other things) as being The Best Ever while still being an in-universe document. Taken strictly as an in-universe document, the presentation is pretty lacking, often cotnradictory, and doesn't really have a lot of reasoning behind it. Framed as a fan-supplement book whose focus is the popular movies and the things fans like, the presentation makes a lot more sense.
The pulse rifle technically is at the time the book was written, and regardless they have access to extensive archives on the weapon, what of it? In documented encounters with the Alien it is hailed as the best ever because from what we do know it was the most effective. No issue there. A few posts back you wanted to argue a case for the resurrection weapons but now seemingly admit we know nothing about them.
I fail to see what supplementary books are not written with 'fan-service' in mind. This is nit-picking to the extreme.
If the book had said the Pulse Rifle was "apparently effective" in the single encounter it gets used in, that'd be one thing. claiming it's the best ever is like claiming in 1798 that George Washington was "the best President ever". It's an extremely limited data set, and saying it's the best ever reeks of fanservice.
We know nothing about the Resurrection weapons because the book doesn't spend any time on them, because it'd rather fellate the Pulse Rifle (a weapon that had its own chapter in the USCM Tech Manual) with a multi-page spread.
The USCM Tech Manual is real light on fan service, considering 98% of the book is fabricated from whole cloth.
It's not nit-picking when fan-service drags down the quality and impact of the finished product.
When fan-service is the book's goal, as it was with the WY Report according to the author, then yeah it's fair to say it achieved its goal.
Interesting, I did think there is a lot of fan services in book. I have only finished the Xenomorph part. It seems to be a summary of various theories I have seen before from both official or unofficial sources. And the book never comes to a conclusive decision on certain aspect of Xenos. It feels like the author is trying really hard not to offend anyone's opinion.
Also, most datas regarding to Resurrection is regarded as impure. That pretty much fits in most fans' opinion on this installment.
At the time the book is written the Company doesn't have a specimen, so can't make definitive statements.
I'm pretty okay with Alien books not making definitive statements about the Alien and just entertaining multiple (possibly contradictory) theories, I think it makes the Alien more interesting.
Yeah, I quite enjoying hearing them theorise without actually having any hard facts.
Just recived the report and I enjoyed it, with some respects.
For the first time I read a fictional report with so many supplementary inserts. These inserts are diverse fictional images, oral reports and written information WY collected from characters in the movies. It feels like I'm reading a real secret report with internal materials, as an executive in WY corporation.
CG portraits of xenomorphs are elaborate and gorgeous. Colorful arts of weapons and vihecles are no less than what Ron Cobb and Syd Mead did for Alien and Aliens.
What I don't like about this report is, many page backgrounds are just roughly assembled screenshots from the movie.
Not sure what you mean by roughly assembled, but the background pictures are, by and large, stills, rather than screenshots.
Quote from: Rockybear on Jun 19, 2017, 06:26:18 AM
Just recived the report and I enjoyed it, with some respects.
For the first time I read a fictional report with so many supplementary inserts. These inserts are diverse fictional images, oral reports and written information WY collected from characters in the movies. It feels like I'm reading a real secret report with internal materials, as an executive in WY corporation.
CG portraits of xenomorphs are elaborate and gorgeous. Colorful arts of weapons and vihecles are no less than what Ron Cobb and Syd Mead did for Alien and Aliens.
What I don't like about this report is, many page backgrounds are just roughly assembled screenshots from the movie.
Many thanks for Your kind words. Really happy that it still finds friends :D
I do agree, for some pages a different choice of production still background could have been made, but time was tight to do more genuine and original art, and as well Fox insisted on the use of certain material (as the Alien Resurrection creature in the ALIENS Warrior section) and was not Editors decision.
Anyway, still hope it fulfills most fans expectations and once again have to thank everybody involved to make it come true!