She confirmed or what ?
Just this:
QuoteScott also confirms that Noomi Rapace's Shaw will be in Alien: Covenant, albeit briefly: "Other casting hasn't been confirmed, although Scott did say that Prometheus 1 star Noomi Rapace will only appear briefly in Covenant."
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2015/11/27/alien-covenant-shooting-march-new-trilogy-further-details/
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 18, 2015, 08:19:48 PM
Just this:
QuoteScott also confirms that Noomi Rapace's Shaw will be in Alien: Covenant, albeit briefly: "Other casting hasn't been confirmed, although Scott did say that Prometheus 1 star Noomi Rapace will only appear briefly in Covenant."
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2015/11/27/alien-covenant-shooting-march-new-trilogy-further-details/
briefly.... maybe she dies?
Oh god, sounds like flashback territory.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 19, 2015, 12:34:54 PM
Oh god, sounds like flashback territory.
Hopefully another one of those visually amazing dream sequences from the first film. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Well if you wanna let the audience feel some terror or other scary things,
they will show Shaw in a brutal or sick death caused by David,
lets face it seeing Shaw being picked or ripped apart by a devious trick by David involving or a xeno or himself makes me awkward and will leave an impression on me even as i type this.
Well, you never know, she might appear only in the last five minutes
I'm of the opinion that her appearance will either be a hand-wave to get rid of her or part of a bigger mystery that the plot revolves around.
I hope she's not simply being thrown out. Ditching one Ripley-esque female lead for another just because the previous movie didn't go down so well seems pointless and unconstructive. So I hope there's more thought and meaning behind her absence than that.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 21, 2015, 08:29:32 AM
I'm of the opinion that her appearance will either be a hand-wave to get rid of her or part of a bigger mystery that the plot revolves around.
My guess is a scene at the beginning or a flashback where she realizes that Paradise isn't where she's going to find her answers, so she leaves on the Juggernaut but leaves David behind. That would set it up for her to be the lead in the third film, by which point I imagine we'll be done with the Engineers and will have moved on whatever eldritch beings made them.
If they take her out like Newt back in Alien 3 that will be a huge disappointment. Seriously, people who are casual observers of the series will be going to see what Shaw discovers on the homeworld. If she dies in the opening credits, (while it may be a good movie like Alien 3) the press will pan the film. It will have the same reception as Alien 3...
Quote from: Infected on Dec 20, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Well if you wanna let the audience feel some terror or other scary things,
they will show Shaw in a brutal or sick death caused by David,
lets face it seeing Shaw being picked or ripped apart by a devious trick by David involving or a xeno or himself makes me awkward and will leave an impression on me even as i type this.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Ever since
Prometheus first came out, I've thought about what direction a sequel will take and it really does seem that Lindelof left the current writers in the lurch. They're backed into a corner, what with the ending to the first film. There's a very limited number of directions that any writer could reasonably take a sequel to
Prometheus in (and even fewer sensible directions). I figured that they couldn't possibly have the sequel continue directly where
Prometheus left off because you can't have a single woman and a robotic head searching an alien planet. You need more human characters.
Therefore, I realised that the writers would need to start the sequel with a new ship and crew that's traveling to the Engineer's planet (unless they went down the route of having other humans already on the planet... which is one of those non-sensible directions I mentioned). Which, as has now been revealed, is exactly what they're doing. Like I said, they wrote themselves into a corner. It's pretty much the only thing that you could do with a sequel. I've been thinking since 2012, that at around the middle-to-last act of the film, this new crew will come across Shaw and our original David.
As "Infected" also said, I've long held the belief that this new crew will find Shaw in a horrible state, having been experimented on by David (possibly in cahoots with the Engineers). What sort of state is anyone's guess but I'd say that the news that Noomi Rapace will only appear briefly in the film is an indication that my theory is pretty spot on. I've had images in my head of Shaw horribly mutated by the black substance, in complete agony... cue a traditional
Alien "kill me" sequence.
Time will tell but all of my thoughts on the matter (like I said, since 2012), are slowly being confirmed, it seems. It's really based upon logical deduction of what few options a writer is left with (I myself, am a budding writer, so I can understand the thought process somewhat), due to that old corner that they will have found themselves stuck in.
If I were a writer on
Alien: Covenant, I'd feel both constrained and irritated at Lindelof and Ridley for ending
Prometheus the way that they did. It's gonna take some really damn fine writing to make this sequel worthwhile I feel. A writer blossoms without such tight constraints, with them, he/she is shackled.
Honestly, I don't really have high hopes for this film but that's probably for the best. My poor heart couldn't take another disappointment of
Prometheus' magnitude again. Never before have I been so bitterly disappointed by a film (it's kind of pathetic to admit this but it was slightly heartbreaking. The
Alien series is my favourite by a country mile and I'd always wanted a Ridley Scott directed exploration of the space jockey species, ever since I was a little kid) and I won't allow myself to be that disappointed again. I expect the worst and hope for the best...
Either way, I'm very curious to see whether I'm on the money with my plot theories or way off base...
One other possibility is that she will spend the entirety of the movie in an Engineer hypersleep chamber on the Juggernaut.
I can totally imagine a flashback sequence where David and Shaw are on the Juggernaut discussing their situation. David tells Shaw that it will take X number of years to reach "paradise", and there isn't enough food/water/toilet paper available for her to survive the trip. She makes him promise to wake her up, and he doesn't.
The writers could then sprinkle in a couple of crazy David scenes where he goes and talks to her while she is asleep. Might be a good way to put in some informative exposition about his plans, while simultaneously showing that David is a few bits short of a byte.
Maybe we'll find out that Shaw become a legendary Prometheus. Shaw somehow gives another anti-engineer race some sort of fire. How about Davids disembodied head and when the engineers learn of this they punish for it. Harshly. Lets say by nailing her to the derelict where she secrets one xeno egg per day until she is all tuckered out.
I think I agree, as a writer, that the ending of Prometheus was quite 'shackling.' Although, I think we should try and recall that Lindelof, Spaihts and Scott all mentioned having had detailed discussions regarding where P2 would be going, while they were writing and shaping PROMETHEUS.
That said, it does seem to me that they may have changed directions, at least, somewhat.
I think that, after PROMETHEUS, you have 2 options as a writer.
Either you make a direct sequel to PROMETHEUS and continue very much with the threads left off at the end of that film, or you basically write a new story, something very, very different and self contained,... which basically is as separate from PROMETHEUS, as PROMETHEUS was to ALIEN. IE; a sequel that doesn't really require prior knowledge of PROMETHEUS or ALIEN to work. The studios love these types of sequels because they are easier to market and to say "You don't have to know anything coming into this..." benefits the film at the Box Office. This is especially good when you are dealing with a film as entangled as Prometheus was to its details. A film like that requires a lot of hope that the audience is still invested and remembers a lot of what happened.
Tie-ing up loose ends that people may not even remember is problematic. Especially if you have another story to tell. They may just kill of Shaw in an effort to free up the narrative from her character arc.
Hopefully this isn't the case but then you have the weight of all those ideas in Prometheus. Its hard to introduce new ideas into a busy schedule like that without messing stuff up.
Anything in between a direct sequel and a mostly new story/direction, is asking for trouble and I am starting to get the impression that what we are in for, is a beginning scene that ties directly to P and then a film that starts a new trilogy of very connected stories which will link directly to ALIEN.
If NOOMI RAPACE is in the movie, more so than just in the beginning, in some capacity that is surprising for example; like we think she dies, and then maybe later we discover she is horribly mutated - a major reveal or plot point type scenario - than you can be rest assured Ridley is gonna be smart enough to not mention that and simply say "she has a small part at the beginning."
So it could be misdirection.
Either way, the take home from all of this seems like we are getting the start of a new trilogy that is more loosely connected to PROMETHEUS than was originally intended.
Anyone else getting that idea as well?
Quote from: CainsSon on Jan 05, 2016, 06:02:07 PM
I think I agree, as a writer, that the ending of Prometheus was quite 'shackling.' Although, I think we should try and recall that Lindelof, Spaihts and Scott all mentioned having had detailed discussions regarding where P2 would be going, while they were writing and shaping PROMETHEUS.
I remember them saying this too. By all accounts though, they didn't have a clue what to do after the film came out. I wonder if they actually took note of the response. I wonder if that's why they seemed lost - not wanting to continue on with Prometheus as envisioned by Lindelof & Scott.
If I were writing this, my take would be to start the film with a distress signal from Shaw asking some new crew for help, or to have a new ship find Shaw somewhere, for her to maybe crash land on some mining colony, nearly dead and a nervous wreck, having escaped some tragedy and then telling people where David is. Even if she ends up docking on this new ship... Maybe she is warning them to stay away and the Company disregards and sends a new crew to investigate, or maybe she is even in cahoots with David and luring the new crew there and the whole thing is a scam.
I think, the best idea is to have the audience start out thinking they are missing a piece of the puzzle, and wondering how Shaw ended up wherever we find her, based on where we last saw her. However, fans have reacted badly to this missing piece of the puzzle plot device, within this franchise, in the past. :P
I really think Shaw is going to end up as the dead Engineer in the derelict. David will have overpowered her, infected her with goo and an embryo, or something like that and she ends up crashing the ship to save Earth and then the rest is history.
Quote
I think I agree, as a writer, that the ending of Prometheus was quite 'shackling.' Although, I think we should try and recall that Lindelof, Spaihts and Scott all mentioned having had detailed discussions regarding where P2 would be going, while they were writing and shaping PROMETHEUS.
On the DVD Commentary, Lindelof stated "..
.I think we have some cool ideas as to exactly what the Engineers were up to but having the characters advancing the most popular theories, that was our way of dealing with it there."I'd like to have an answer to the 'planned Earth destruction', but not necessarily in
Alien:Covenant.
Anyway, nothing is set in stone yet concerning David and Shaw's relationship; while Lindelof's take on David back in June 2012 was that his intentions are not that bad :
"He's a strange robot that has a curious crush on a human being, and when Weyland is eliminated, I think he is genuinely interested in what she's (Shaw) interested in. He reaches out partly for survival, but partly out of curiosity, and I think he's sincere that he'll take her wherever she wants to go", from memory, Scott hinted that she'd better be careful before reuniting the robot's head and body.
Though one could argue that Lindelof is not on board anymore...
My wish : strange David : yes ... malevolent David : no.
Quote from: CainsSon on Jan 05, 2016, 10:22:38 PM
I think, the best idea is to have the audience start out thinking they are missing a piece of the puzzle, and wondering how Shaw ended up wherever we find her, based on where we last saw her. However, fans have reacted badly to this missing piece of the puzzle plot device, within this franchise, in the past. :P
I think that it's possible Shaw's absence maybe an important plot point for Alien: Covenant.
Quote from: sugarhigh on Jan 05, 2016, 10:34:46 PM
I really think Shaw is going to end up as the dead Engineer in the derelict. David will have overpowered her, infected her with goo and an embryo, or something like that and she ends up crashing the ship to save Earth and then the rest is history.
This will irritate as much as if David ends up creating the Aliens.
Quote from: PrimitifAlien on Jan 05, 2016, 11:06:13 PM
My wish : strange David : yes ... malevolent David : no.
I don't think I would ever say he ever came across as being malevolent. He definitely seemed curious and just straight up weird to me. Fassbender really helped bring David to the front and his performance of the character was significantly better than as written in Alien: Engineers.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 06, 2016, 08:21:24 AM
Quote from: sugarhigh on Jan 05, 2016, 10:34:46 PM
I really think Shaw is going to end up as the dead Engineer in the derelict. David will have overpowered her, infected her with goo and an embryo, or something like that and she ends up crashing the ship to save Earth and then the rest is history.
This will irritate as much as if David ends up creating the Aliens.
Oh crap that still could happen... haha I totally forgot about it but it is still far better than David or man made aliens. Well I suppose if David makes them, being that he is man made himself; it would be sort of the same thing.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 06, 2016, 08:21:24 AM
I don't think I would ever say he ever came across as being malevolent. He definitely seemed curious and just straight up weird to me. Fassbender really helped bring David to the front and his performance of the character was significantly better than as written in Alien: Engineers.
I agree. He never crossed that crucial line of infecting Holloway without his consent, though a quite indirect one, for sure :D
Some posters where proposing that David would infect Shaw or kill her, I just wanted to 'cry foul'.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 06, 2016, 09:38:27 AM
Well I suppose if David makes them, being that he is man made himself; it would be sort of the same thing.
Yes... and if I had the doomed choice to make between man or robot, I still would choose robot.
Nah, Prometheus showed the alien in the mural so they couldn't have been made by man or David. Though I can see David sexing them up with a perfect golden blond hair. :P
You know what would be awesome, if David takes one of those AR aliens are reverse engineers them to Kane son standards and proclaims, now the beast is perfect. That would be so poetic.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 06, 2016, 08:53:17 PM
Nah, Prometheus showed the alien in the mural so they couldn't have been made by man or David. Though I can see David sexing them up with a perfect golden blond hair. :P
I'm well aware of that (I said IF), I always say that it is not the usual xenomorph nor the Deacon in the mural.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 06, 2016, 08:53:17 PM
You know what would be awesome, if David takes one of those AR aliens are reverse engineers them to Kane son standards and proclaims, now the beast is perfect. That would be so poetic.
I often wonder where does you endless imagination come from ? ;)
Dude I'll admit it, when it gets late at night I'm bored as f**k and my mind wanders into the strangest places. Which is probably why I'm an alien fan. ;)
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2016, 01:57:39 AM
Dude I'll admit it, when it gets late at night I'm bored as f**k and my mind wanders into the strangest places. Which is probably why I'm an alien fan. ;)
Speaking for pretty much everyone on this forum there, I should imagine. Well, certainly myself, at any rate.
Quote from: St_Eddie on Jan 07, 2016, 02:21:38 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2016, 01:57:39 AM
Dude I'll admit it, when it gets late at night I'm bored as f**k and my mind wanders into the strangest places. Which is probably why I'm an alien fan. ;)
Speaking for pretty much everyone on this forum there, I should imagine. Well, certainly myself, at any rate.
Actually, I was also thinking something strange like this. The difference bw the Big Chap and the Deacon is the biomechanical aspect, right? So I was thinking, what f David finds a way to use the Black Goo to infect himself? And then the resulting xeno, takes on the biomechanical aspects of the androids.
Its a somewhat logical way to work that in.
Or in my excitably f**ked up mind, a better way to handle this is for David to infect himself and then rape Shaw, and then, pregnant with their baby, she steals the derlict to escape and she crash lands on LV426, trying to get his baby away from him and save us from the doom their baby - the first queen - would inflict upon the earth. That is, until the NOSTROMO finds it!
FIN
Quote from: CainsSon on Jan 07, 2016, 04:25:58 AM
Quote from: St_Eddie on Jan 07, 2016, 02:21:38 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2016, 01:57:39 AM
Dude I'll admit it, when it gets late at night I'm bored as f**k and my mind wanders into the strangest places. Which is probably why I'm an alien fan. ;)
Speaking for pretty much everyone on this forum there, I should imagine. Well, certainly myself, at any rate.
Actually, I was also thinking something strange like this. The difference bw the Big Chap and the Deacon is the biomechanical aspect, right? So I was thinking, what f David finds a way to use the Black Goo to infect himself? And then the resulting xeno, takes on the biomechanical aspects of the androids.
Its a somewhat logical way to work that in.
Or in my excitably f**ked up mind, a better way to handle this is for David to infect himself and then rape Shaw, and then, pregnant with their baby, she steals the derlict to escape and she crash lands on LV426, trying to get his baby away from him and save us from the doom their baby - the first queen - would inflict upon the earth. That is, until the NOSTROMO finds it!
FIN
I think you had something there until you got all rapy. The idea that David added the biomechanical aspect to the xenomorphs is quite clever actually. I mean when androids get cut in half, did you see all the tubing? The stuff Bishop had inside looks similar to the tubes of the side of the Alien head. Wrong color, but you get what I mean. The acid for blood could be like a battery acid mechanism. The idea of fusing biology with the mechanical only makes perfect sense with Giger's biomechanics. It also merges Giger's thought's with Ridley's musings on the relationship between man and his androids.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 07, 2016, 05:48:17 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Jan 07, 2016, 04:25:58 AM
Quote from: St_Eddie on Jan 07, 2016, 02:21:38 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2016, 01:57:39 AM
Dude I'll admit it, when it gets late at night I'm bored as f**k and my mind wanders into the strangest places. Which is probably why I'm an alien fan. ;)
Speaking for pretty much everyone on this forum there, I should imagine. Well, certainly myself, at any rate.
Actually, I was also thinking something strange like this. The difference bw the Big Chap and the Deacon is the biomechanical aspect, right? So I was thinking, what f David finds a way to use the Black Goo to infect himself? And then the resulting xeno, takes on the biomechanical aspects of the androids.
Its a somewhat logical way to work that in.
Or in my excitably f**ked up mind, a better way to handle this is for David to infect himself and then rape Shaw, and then, pregnant with their baby, she steals the derlict to escape and she crash lands on LV426, trying to get his baby away from him and save us from the doom their baby - the first queen - would inflict upon the earth. That is, until the NOSTROMO finds it!
FIN
I think you had something there until you got all rapy. The idea that David added the biomechanical aspect to the xenomorphs is quite clever actually. I mean when androids get cut in half, did you see all the tubing? The stuff Bishop had inside looks similar to the tubes of the side of the Alien head. Wrong color, but you get what I mean. The acid for blood could be like a battery acid mechanism. The idea of fusing biology with the mechanical only makes perfect sense with Giger's biomechanics. It also merges Giger's thought's with Ridley's musings on the relationship between man and his androids.
Yea the rapey part is way to Prometheus™ themed. Still a robot-alien hybrid isn't exactly all inspiring either.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 06, 2016, 08:53:17 PM
Nah, Prometheus showed the alien in the mural so they couldn't have been made by man or David. Though I can see David sexing them up with a perfect golden blond hair. :P
I still don't think that's an Alien. It looks more like the Deacon to me.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 07, 2016, 05:48:17 AM
I think you had something there until you got all rapy. The idea that David added the biomechanical aspect to the xenomorphs is quite clever actually. I mean when androids get cut in half, did you see all the tubing? The stuff Bishop had inside looks similar to the tubes of the side of the Alien head. Wrong color, but you get what I mean. The acid for blood could be like a battery acid mechanism. The idea of fusing biology with the mechanical only makes perfect sense with Giger's biomechanics. It also merges Giger's thought's with Ridley's musings on the relationship between man and his androids.
No offence but it's all quite contrived to me. And whilst I like the Engineers, we've lost the otherworldly and Elder Gold style thing that made the Jockey so enigmatic in the first place (something a lot of people hate in the film) and I wouldn't want to see us lose that in the Aliens as well.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 08:33:07 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 06, 2016, 08:53:17 PM
Nah, Prometheus showed the alien in the mural so they couldn't have been made by man or David. Though I can see David sexing them up with a perfect golden blond hair. :P
I still don't think that's an Alien. It looks more like the Deacon to me.
I'm talking about the murals on the ceiling and not the one on the wall. Particularly the one holding the egg. Although that could be the same creature in the other ceiling mural.
I don't recall that one. Have you got a picture?
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2016, 08:44:59 AM
I'm talking about the murals on the ceiling and not the one on the wall. Particularly the one holding the egg. Although that could be the same creature in the other ceiling mural.
Yes, it is the same creature, if you take a close look.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1064.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu364%2FPrimitifAlien%2FAvP%2520galaxy%2FPre-Xenomorph%2520Comparison_zpskyruvuxx.jpg&hash=a505126cf0338f3fb2ddd952ac9a619b279db243)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1064.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu364%2FPrimitifAlien%2FAvP%2520galaxy%2FEgg%2520in%2520Hand_zpsf4lookpu.png&hash=598e14f07956f6351cb00da9d2014e1857a6d3b4)
Photos from the art book included. They are btw at the very beggining of the book with nothing mentionned, it is a silent scream to say : here is the creature to solve the mystery !!
If you play the game of taking the place of the filmmakers and you want to tell the audience, without explaining it explicitly, that the usual xenomorph comes from the black goo, how would you do it ?
You would make this creature and hint that it lays eggs as a lifecycle, and we would then deduct that infected eggs contains facehuggers. No ? ;)
The creature has a great ressemblance with the usual alien but it is not the alien, no need to mention the lack of the penis-shaped head, as well as the 4 petals egg on the ceiling which is different from the usual egg.
As for the crucified creature on center of the mural, there wouldn't be any point of showing it if it was only involving human/engineer DNA. On the ceiling, you have this xenomorph-
like creature next to a human, so my bet is that those 2 are needed to create the crucified creature... unlike the Deacon.
Spoiler
Please someone give a name to them !
That's barely visible in the film. :-\
I am genuinely staggered people actually want Shaw to be the fossilised Jockey from the first film and that David has somehow created the Alien.
What an appalling idea that removes everything alien.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 07, 2016, 02:14:51 PM
I am genuinely staggered people actually want Shaw to be the fossilised Jockey from the first film and that David has somehow created the Alien.
What an appalling idea that removes everything alien.
Indeed. That's my biggest fear. That they continue to remove the Alien and connect it more to humanity.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 02:22:10 PMIndeed. That's my biggest fear. That they continue to remove the Alien and connect it more to humanity.
Ironic when Scott was so influential in having Hill and Giler's human connections
removed from the original film.
From what I remember though, that was Spaiht's thinking so perhaps without him that might start to abate a bit.
Sorry, by original film I meant Alien :)
I know - sorry, I just sort of skipped over that comment completely with my reply and turned it back to Prometheus.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 02:22:10 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 07, 2016, 02:14:51 PM
I am genuinely staggered people actually want Shaw to be the fossilised Jockey from the first film and that David has somehow created the Alien.
What an appalling idea that removes everything alien.
Indeed. That's my biggest fear. That they continue to remove the Alien and connect it more to humanity.
Well the idea of mixing biology with the mechanical is indeed interesting.
Spoiler
It is literally the status quo in Predator: Incursion with the Slug thing literally building a space ship.
This has been an implied tacit theme in the Alien universe since 1979. The thing that is bothersome is indeed the idea that it all comes from humans (whether Engineers or our android David) If it is the case that the Space Jockey was somehow a human or affected by a human android, I expect a severe backlash from fans. Alien does need to be somehow literally Alien, i.e. foreign and unknowable.
I love the notion of the connection between biology and mechanical. I just don't love the idea of it being human biology. It's supposed to be alien.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 05:08:05 PM
I love the notion of the connection between biology and mechanical. I just don't love the idea of it being human biology. It's supposed to be alien.
Yeah that about sums it up.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 01:04:54 PM
That's barely visible in the film. :-\
Can't say the opposite, especially for the 'egg in hands' one... I suppose the filmmakers assumed the hardcore fans would pause, repause on their BluRay player and overanalyze the thing... and buy the artbook :P
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 07, 2016, 04:58:51 PM
Alien does need to be somehow literally Alien, i.e. foreign and unknowable.
Anthropomorphism is the enemy.
In my undergraduate work, I've been wrestling with the concept of eco-centric versus anthropocentric. The idea with the former is to "de-center" ourselves, to realize that we're part of something larger. This is something I think that Alien did really well as a film, while at the same time trapping the humans characters in an anthropocentric hell (the Nostromo) which was visited by the stark coldness and indifference of the big, nasty, weird universe.
Ha this is a thread about whether or not Noomi Rapace will be back and all everyone wants to talk about is how the alien isn't alien enough and should in no way be related to humans. Totally agree btw.
You know fans, we're passionate and often go off on tangents! :laugh:
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 08:33:07 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 06, 2016, 08:53:17 PM
Nah, Prometheus showed the alien in the mural so they couldn't have been made by man or David. Though I can see David sexing them up with a perfect golden blond hair. :P
I still don't think that's an Alien. It looks more like the Deacon to me.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 07, 2016, 05:48:17 AM
I think you had something there until you got all rapy. The idea that David added the biomechanical aspect to the xenomorphs is quite clever actually. I mean when androids get cut in half, did you see all the tubing? The stuff Bishop had inside looks similar to the tubes of the side of the Alien head. Wrong color, but you get what I mean. The acid for blood could be like a battery acid mechanism. The idea of fusing biology with the mechanical only makes perfect sense with Giger's biomechanics. It also merges Giger's thought's with Ridley's musings on the relationship between man and his androids.
No offence but it's all quite contrived to me. And whilst I like the Engineers, we've lost the otherworldly and Elder Gold style thing that made the Jockey so enigmatic in the first place (something a lot of people hate in the film) and I wouldn't want to see us lose that in the Aliens as well.
No offense taken. It is absolutely contrived but it is also something I could very much see happening since in Prometheus we establish this idea that this goo basically 'evolves' and makes sinister whatever it comes into contact with and then we have these murals that all but guarantee that these deacons have been around. The Alien series suggests that the Alien takes on the forms of its host so, it seems logical enough for them to go in the direction of David using the goo to 'evolve' things. And it only seems logical that he would then decide to use it to 'evolve' his own kind and we already know there are 'multiple' androids in this so... In doing this its like a mid-point between David 'creating' the xenomorph and evolving it and himself. Who knows what will actually happen.
Im not saying I like it as an so much as Im saying I could see it happening. That's all.
I do however, think I would be far more ok with this idea, than some others I can imagine hollywood trying to pull.
The fact is, I never wanted the Alien to have been created. Or at least, I never wanted to see it's evolution. I had devised my own concept for what the Alien was as a fan for so many years and its not an explicit answer and I like it that way.. It's the one I would have gone with as a writer and now Im lucky to be able to use this idea as my own since Prometheus took such a turn.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2016, 02:22:10 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 07, 2016, 02:14:51 PM
I am genuinely staggered people actually want Shaw to be the fossilised Jockey from the first film and that David has somehow created the Alien.
What an appalling idea that removes everything alien.
Indeed. That's my biggest fear. That they continue to remove the Alien and connect it more to humanity.
Agree 100%.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2016, 06:42:30 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 07, 2016, 05:48:17 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Jan 07, 2016, 04:25:58 AM
Quote from: St_Eddie on Jan 07, 2016, 02:21:38 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 07, 2016, 01:57:39 AM
Dude I'll admit it, when it gets late at night I'm bored as f**k and my mind wanders into the strangest places. Which is probably why I'm an alien fan. ;)
Speaking for pretty much everyone on this forum there, I should imagine. Well, certainly myself, at any rate.
Actually, I was also thinking something strange like this. The difference bw the Big Chap and the Deacon is the biomechanical aspect, right? So I was thinking, what f David finds a way to use the Black Goo to infect himself? And then the resulting xeno, takes on the biomechanical aspects of the androids.
Its a somewhat logical way to work that in.
Or in my excitably f**ked up mind, a better way to handle this is for David to infect himself and then rape Shaw, and then, pregnant with their baby, she steals the derlict to escape and she crash lands on LV426, trying to get his baby away from him and save us from the doom their baby - the first queen - would inflict upon the earth. That is, until the NOSTROMO finds it!
FIN
I think you had something there until you got all rapy. The idea that David added the biomechanical aspect to the xenomorphs is quite clever actually. I mean when androids get cut in half, did you see all the tubing? The stuff Bishop had inside looks similar to the tubes of the side of the Alien head. Wrong color, but you get what I mean. The acid for blood could be like a battery acid mechanism. The idea of fusing biology with the mechanical only makes perfect sense with Giger's biomechanics. It also merges Giger's thought's with Ridley's musings on the relationship between man and his androids.
Yea the rapey part is way to Prometheus™ themed. Still a robot-alien hybrid isn't exactly all inspiring either.
I didn't mean it in the sense that there would be an ANdroid-alien-hybrid though. I mean it in the sense that by using the goo on himself David finds a way to introduce the biomechanical aspects to the deacon - thus creating the xenomorph as we already know it. In a larger sense, I also mean to suggest that David discovers how to merge the engineer's tech with the goo altogether and thus create the entire Biomechanical theme and atmosphere which was present in Alien but absent in Prometheus.
Again, Im not entirely into this idea. Its too 'neat' IMO. I like things to be more ambiguous. I had just thought of it at some point.
This is a problem that plagues all long-running series. The need by both the pros and the fans to "connect the dots" and thus make the strange and wonderful and exciting mythos ever so small.
Not only was I never too keen on the idea of the Jockey's being related to the humans, I actually liked the idea that they weren't related to the aliens, either. That whatever the origin of the alien was, the Jockey was some other thing that entered the fray. A bigger universe. Who knows where either of them comes from.
"big things have small beginnings" he touched the goo...nothing happened..
Quote from: Astronoë on Jan 14, 2016, 10:46:20 PM
"big things have small beginnings" he touched the goo...nothing happened..
Give the robot 10 years, and he could conceivably figure something out.
Noomi Rapace will be there, no worries
and in a much more important role as people think
Quote from: CainsSon on Jan 15, 2016, 06:39:55 AM
Quote from: Astronoë on Jan 14, 2016, 10:46:20 PM
"big things have small beginnings" he touched the goo...nothing happened..
Give the robot 10 years, and he could conceivably figure something out.
Black Goo ignored David, treated him as an object that isn't living, like a rock or piece of plastic, nothing there to work with.
I think Shaw/Lara Croft will go Tomb raiding on Planet-Paradise
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchive.tombraiderhub.com%2Ftran%2Fmodding%2Fimages%2Foutfits%2Fxlarge_previews%2Fother%2Fimages%2F36_alien_vs_lara_by_zipper_1.jpg&hash=87be8ed9f4a6544f7f9b9d998e7600666a1a13a7)
David will go after other facilities on the planet, that have more to do with science n industry, to rebuild himself, to contact Weyland Yutani (draw more 'test subjects') n find non-philosophical answers as opposite to Shaw who might find some old timer benevolent clergy-Engineer.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg15.deviantart.net%2F4fd1%2Fi%2F2013%2F311%2Fe%2F3%2Favenement_du_roi_david___prometheus_2_3_by_vmjml1er-d6stvus.png&hash=b9c4f460dfc49360301b6b561201e77c6ae48ccc)
so yeah, Shaw prob won't appear in Alien: Covenant except for maybe first scene or so where she n David split up n go different directions, no point in having Shaw around in the movie when you got so many new people from ship Covenant they will (?) build up..
Quote from: Stolen on Jan 15, 2016, 07:57:19 PM
Noomi Rapace will be there, no worries
and in a much more important role as people think
This. We all know Scott loves throwing red herrings at his audience. We always gobble them up, too. Scott likes to mess with his audience - Us. So until more of 2016 rolls out and we actually start seeing more concrete News, I'm just happy to sit and see what comes along next.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: windebieste on Jan 15, 2016, 10:29:47 PM
Quote from: Stolen on Jan 15, 2016, 07:57:19 PM
Noomi Rapace will be there, no worries
and in a much more important role as people think
This. We all know Scott loves throwing red herrings at his audience. We always gobble them up, too. Scott likes to mess with his audience - Us. So until more of 2016 rolls out and we actually start seeing more concrete News, I'm just happy to sit and see what comes along next.
-Windebieste.
He does? I thought he just babbles on in public and gives up loads of spoilers! All the time!
For what it's worth, IMDB still has her listed as part of Alien Covenant.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 16, 2016, 12:17:15 AMFor what it's worth, IMDB still has her listed as part of Alien Covenant.
IMDb reckoned Danny Webb was back as Morse for about six months.
Don't take IMDB for gospel.
Of course, I would never say that IMDB should be taken as gospel. That's why I said, "For what it's worth". Just making an observation on topic. If she get's killed off screen, we'll never hear the end of it.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 18, 2016, 03:55:54 PMIf she get's killed off screen, we'll never hear the end of it.
Only from people who can't get over the fact she's gone ;)
Wouldn't really bother me. She wasn't a particularly interesting or engaging character.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 18, 2016, 03:59:25 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 18, 2016, 03:55:54 PMIf she get's killed off screen, we'll never hear the end of it.
Only from people who can't get over the fact she's gone ;)
True. It's all about critical mass here. If she was that compelling of a character, whose off-screen death was not story driven but money driven, and most importantly if enough people have an attachment to her, then we'll have the Newt / Hicks scenario all over again. In truth I don't think enough people are as attached to Shaw as they are to Hicks and Newt.
Firstly, we'll have to see if she is actually taken out off-screen, or if at all. We have no idea what is going to happen to her. I think that is part of Ridley's' big pent-up reveal. We'll have to see. Regardless, I don't think the backlash would be as bad as the backlash against the Hicks / Newt deaths. Probably more of a loud collective groan, but the film would still be derided by the critics and fans.
The Aliens films are at their best when man is pitted against the unknown. What I think excites fans mostly from a continuation to Prometheus is that we are again heading into the ultimate unknown by going to where "they" come from. We get to experience this vicariously through Shaw. If she gets toasted, then the film will really have to find a way to rise to a higher level to fulfill the promise of fans' expectations.
As usual, cross your fingers and lower your expectations going in, and the results may be good.
I think they're on the low down with Shaw because she's going to be the villain of this Alien trilogy. A switch from heroic female to absolute evil bitch.
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Dec 20, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Well, you never know, she might appear only in the last five minutes
On a mountain, in a cloak. One of the new characters hands her a lightsabre.
Quote from: markweatherill on Jan 26, 2016, 03:32:43 PM
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Dec 20, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Well, you never know, she might appear only in the last five minutes
On a mountain, in a cloak. One of the new characters hands her a lightsabre.
Camera pan. swell the music. Hit the Credits
A reporter recently pressed her for some information regarding Alien: Covenant but she was pretty tight lipped about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1XS2u-Wldk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1XS2u-Wldk)
Oh thanks! Intriguing
What a beautiful woman!
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 26, 2016, 08:11:58 PM
A reporter recently pressed her for some information regarding Alien: Covenant but she was pretty tight lipped about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1XS2u-Wldk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1XS2u-Wldk)
That's a shame. He wasn't getting anything out of her!
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 26, 2016, 08:48:10 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 26, 2016, 08:11:58 PM
A reporter recently pressed her for some information regarding Alien: Covenant but she was pretty tight lipped about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1XS2u-Wldk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1XS2u-Wldk)
That's a shame. He wasn't getting anything out of her!
I'm guessing she's been told jack and shit.
Quote from: tmjhur on Jan 26, 2016, 09:04:46 PMI'm guessing she's been told jack and shit.
Disagree, her laugh pretty much revealed she can't reveal anything n she has a part to play, otherwise she wouldn't have laughed like she did.
Loved that laugh, very cute :)
I liked Prometheus but I didn't love it the way I wanted to. I hope that Scott and the rest of the crew involved have ironed out the creases from that movie and learn from the mistakes that were made in Prometheus.
One of those mistakes, in my opinion, was Noomi Rapace having the 'lead' female role. I just don't think she is a talented enough actress to stand her ground in such a film. I found her to be irritating and unconvincing in Prometheus. I also think her acting ability leaves a lot to be desired in general.
To be honest, I am hoping her role is very small in Alien Covenant. Originally I had hoped she wouldn't be in the new film at all, although that doesn't look to be the case.
Wondering will Shaw become this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farealiensreal.org%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F11%2Fgiger-space-alien-woman.jpg&hash=d1aad26fc653f34e3d50dbab1acabaf972e52f37)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wheretowatch.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fthe_credits%2FGiger-Image-3.jpg&hash=1be202b4f36e8c63af9e53fe117d08c46664d4e8)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpaintings-art-picture.com%2Fhr-giger%2Fimages%2FH.R.Giger%2520Art%252044.JPG&hash=04ed79de522dc5b97e570ac1248acd68f435fba2)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-FDDp1Sz5meM%2FT94b1r5sABI%2FAAAAAAAACCw%2FtCXiv6XZgBA%2Fs1600%2Fgiger_lilith.jpg&hash=fb12df423f68eac830337445f2459977d77820c4)
Would be cool anyway if these designs made it in whether it's for Shaw or some other character.
I'd like to see more Giger-esque designs in the sequel. I wouldn't be opposed to her becoming something like that - instead of the Fifield mutant.
Gigerotique?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 28, 2016, 12:57:49 PM
I'd like to see more Giger-esque designs in the sequel. I wouldn't be opposed to her becoming something like that - instead of the Fifield mutant.
I agree. Fifield was a low point of Prometheus. That creature was out of left field and treaded dangerously close to zombie territory.
I kind of expect Alien: Covenant to deal with resurrection issues in a zombie fashion though anyway. Immortality was the theme in Prometheus, and we got to see Fifield come back from the dead. Also there was that gadget which was inserted into the Engineer's head that brought him back to life for a moment. I said it before, and I'll say it again.. I expect Weyland, to make a return in this fashion. Also, I think perhaps Vickers may be back, as an organic robot. but I digress.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 28, 2016, 09:40:38 PMGigerotique?
Misread that as Gigertheque (as in discotheque) and starting think that's a nightclub nobody wants or needs to be in ;D
Could you imagine being surrounded by Giger-esque locations while drunk?
(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/alienlambert3.jpg)
I like that this is the kind of club that has an oxygen bar.
:laugh: That just gave me a right chuckle! I'd totally go to that bar though...
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 29, 2016, 09:00:55 AM
:laugh: That just gave me a right chuckle! I'd totally go to that bar though...
Just watch out for the Arcturian poontang, Hicks.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 29, 2016, 10:14:15 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 29, 2016, 09:00:55 AM
:laugh: That just gave me a right chuckle! I'd totally go to that bar though...
Just watch out for the Arcturian poontang, Hicks.
Don't need to watch out...it just doesn't matter when it's Arcturian, baby. :P
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 29, 2016, 08:58:07 AM
(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/alienlambert3.jpg)
I like that this is the kind of club that has an oxygen bar.
I think she peed off one of the Bouncers lol
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 29, 2016, 08:56:29 AM
Could you imagine being surrounded by Giger-esque locations while drunk?
Here's your chance:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gigerbar.com%2F2001.jpg&hash=d061dfea80036b7946d4f6add8bf4bdbfb7910a9)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giger_Bar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giger_Bar)
I do intend on visiting that museum and bar at some point. I've been wanting to for a while.
It should be a mandatory AVP Galaxy pilgrimage.
http://www.tv3.ie/xpose/article/entertainment-news/191513/Ridley-Scott-Noomi-Rapace-wont-be-in-Alien-Covenant
looks like Noomi won't be in the movie after all
Alrighty then. So he's going to pull an old Luke Skywalker. Is he in it or not? :P
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 29, 2016, 08:31:45 PM
Alrighty then. So he's going to pull an old Luke Skywalker. Is he in it or not? :P
She's probably not.....he lets a lot of cats out of a lot of bags so I'm assuming he would have said straight up that she'll have a cameo or whatever if she was in there.
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Jan 29, 2016, 05:57:01 PM
http://www.tv3.ie/xpose/article/entertainment-news/191513/Ridley-Scott-Noomi-Rapace-wont-be-in-Alien-Covenant
looks like Noomi won't be in the movie after all
Don't take that one at face value yet. They don't link back to the source and I've been unable to find a recent Ridley Scott interview with a Daily Mail. Has anyone else found the original?
Quote from: tmjhur on Jan 29, 2016, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 29, 2016, 08:31:45 PM
Alrighty then. So he's going to pull an old Luke Skywalker. Is he in it or not? :P
She's probably not.....he lets a lot of cats out of a lot of bags so I'm assuming he would have said straight up that she'll have a cameo or whatever if she was in there.
He actually did confirm her inclusion on a previous occasion:
QuoteScott also confirms that Noomi Rapace's Shaw will be in Alien: Covenant, albeit briefly
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2015/11/27/alien-covenant-shooting-march-new-trilogy-further-details/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2015/11/27/alien-covenant-shooting-march-new-trilogy-further-details/)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3422086/BAZ-BAMIGBOYE-Helen-McRory-dives-deep-end-love-cheat.html#ixzz3yg6dhPBj7
Thanks to Wrrrrmmm we have the source burried away in another article.
QuoteI asked if Noomi Rapace, who was in his film Prometheus (from which Covenant follows), would be working with him in Australia and he said no. 'We're still casting the main roles,' he said.
He's already got most of the film drawn in his own very detailed storyboards that enable him to visualise every shot before shooting actually begins.
OOKKKKKK.
I'm not too surprised. I'd been expecting this since the story announcement. I'd been expecting that either Shaw would be hand waved away and the story would move on to David or her lack of appearance would be part of a bigger mystery.
Suppose we're just a bit taken back considering Ridley's earlier comments that she would be in it. Then again, we should be used to that kind of thing by now. :laugh:
Whhaaaat?
Has this been authenticated now? If not, well it will kind of force Ridley's hand now to give an answer.
Not cool. Gives me the impression they're writing scripts to cater to opinions they're reading on message boards.
Shaw was a big part of Prometheus. I wonder how they're planning to handle this...
Clutching at straws but the quote says "would be working with him in Australia." I suppose that might leave wiggle room for shooting at some other location. I doubt it though.
I don't think Scott knows what he's doing anymore; first it was the Alien won't be in the sequel then it will, then it went from Paradise Lost to Alien: Covenant, and now it's there will be Shaw to there will not be Shaw.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Jan 30, 2016, 12:07:12 AM
Not cool. Gives me the impression they're writing scripts to cater to opinions they're reading on message boards.
Shaw was a big part of Prometheus. I wonder how they're planning to handle this...
I'm assuming David may have just murdered her after she put him back together.....pretty ungrateful I know :laugh:
Shaw is the Newt of Prometheus... :laugh:
i think your idea Ridley Scott is crap not having the main character what survived all the shit in the last film she goes searching foe the engineer planet and she is not in the next film without her and David the film will suck i did love Prometheus but now it looks crapy set in the future without Elizabeth Shaw fu$@ u Ridley Scott!!!!!!!
Does this news mean now that we have to take Ridley's Hard R comment with a massive mound of salt?
Shaw has to have some role outside of Prometheus. Just maybe not in the next movie. Ridley can be such an enigma.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 30, 2016, 12:29:00 AM
Shaw has to have some role outside of Prometheus. Just maybe not in the next movie. Ridley can be such an enigma.
Ridley is the complete opposite to that. He spills the beans on everything!
Quote from: tmjhur on Jan 30, 2016, 12:18:04 AM
Does this news mean now that we have to take Ridley's Hard R comment with a massive mound of salt?
Always take his words with a grain of salt.
Guy said Prometheus would scare the sh*t out of us.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 30, 2016, 12:08:56 AM
I don't think Scott knows what he's doing anymore; first it was the Alien won't be in the sequel then it will, then it went from Paradise Lost to Alien: Covenant, and now it's there will be Shaw to there will not be Shaw.
Now days Ridley just chats shit half the time.
Seems strange to me...
Maybe Noomi Rapace didn't accept that it's role is less important.
ITS UTTER BS,
So we'll never know what happened to her? but if David is in this... then it will be strange. (i mean david the head not the other davids)
Sucks....
Quote from: x-M-x on Jan 30, 2016, 01:31:18 AM
ITS UTTER BS,
So we'll never know what happened to her? but if David is in this... then it will be strange. (i mean david the head not the other davids)
Sucks....
The movie in 2017 isn't the final movie in the Prometheus franchise.
I wrote before, next movie will be about Dr.David-Frankestein rebuilding his body, contacts Weyland Corp for more victims to experiment on, David will go off in search of laboratories n industries on the Paradise planet.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg15.deviantart.net%2F4fd1%2Fi%2F2013%2F311%2Fe%2F3%2Favenement_du_roi_david___prometheus_2_3_by_vmjml1er-d6stvus.png&hash=b9c4f460dfc49360301b6b561201e77c6ae48ccc)
The movie after will focus on Shaw where she goes off in search of 'Lore', origins of Engineers, temples etc. probably find some Engineer priesthood with some maybe being decent n some zealot nuts..Shaw will be "Tombraider in xeno-Paradise"
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchive.tombraiderhub.com%2Ftran%2Fmodding%2Fimages%2Foutfits%2Fxlarge_previews%2Fother%2Fimages%2F36_alien_vs_lara_by_zipper_1.jpg&hash=87be8ed9f4a6544f7f9b9d998e7600666a1a13a7)
David & Shaw represent two different directions the characters want to go and that's two movies, or it could be forced into one, which I don't want to see..
QuoteShaw walks over to David's CRUMPLED BODY. White gook OOZES
from the whole in his neck as Shaw UNZIPS his SPACE SUIT.
Reaches into the pocket --
DAVID (CONT'D)
The other one.
Shaw reaches into the other pocket. Gently removes the
cross. Puts it back around her neck. Where it BELONGS.
David studies her. A grudging RESPECT --
DAVID (CONT'D)
Even after all this... you still believe
don't you?
But she IGNORES him. Stands. Looking at the ORRERY -- Now
FLICKERING. The Juggernaut is obviously severely damaged.
Shaw's wheels are turning, finally addresses David --
SHAW
You said you could figure out their
navigation -- use their maps?
DAVID
Yes. Once we get to one of the other
ships, finding a way to Earth should be
relatively easy to --
SHAW
-- I don't want to go back to where we
came from.
(a beat)
I want to go where they came from.
AH. And we can't help but ADMIRE Shaw. She's a SEARCHER.
And she's not done searching quite yet.
SHAW (CONT'D)
Can you do that, David?
DAVID
(considers; then)
Yes. I believe I can.
SHAW
Good.
DAVID
May I ask what you hope to achieve by
going there?
SHAW
They created us. And then they tried to
kill us. They changed their minds.
(beat)
I deserve to know why.
ON DAVID. And for a rational being, this may be the first
and only time we've ever seen him appear CONFUSED --
DAVID
But the answer is irrelevant. What does
it matter why they changed their minds?
SHAW
Because it does.
DAVID
I'm sorry... but I don't understand.
HOLD ON Shaw. A beat. Then, she grabs a handful of David's
hair, lifts him so they're eye to eye. Calmly responds --
SHAW
That's because you're a f**king robot.
Shaw is part of Paradise
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.latercera.com%2F20140513%2F1941675.JPG&hash=1f9eb508e62b90158f2c983caca97bd54a6f7e10)
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 30, 2016, 12:16:50 AM
Shaw is the Newt of Prometheus... :laugh:
Maybe in 20 years someone will do an alternate sequel with Shaw. :laugh:
Alien Covenant appears to be ever changing and evolving as a production, i would think alot of this is probably down to Scott and Fox both seeing many different script iterations, then incorporating and carrying forward aspects of these scripts they liked to form the finalised screenplay.One thing Prometheus did, was divide opinion amongst its audience and the studio will look at, what worked about it and what didn't. Prometheus performed reasonably well at the box office, but it had faults in script, character writing alongside pacing.and fox know people want another Alien movie, but we want something which evokes the quality of the first two movies. With Neil Blomkamps recent movies not performing particularly well and the mixed opinions of bringing Ripley, Hicks and Newt back into the franchise by ignoring everything after Aliens is a risk.Maybe fox saw Ridley coming hot off the success of the martian and is much more bankable than Blomkamp at present. Fox know a new Alien film with Scott directing is going to have audiences queueing up to watch it and going back to explain the aliens origin is potentially safer than making a new aliens sequel by Neil Blomkamp, which disregards Alien 3 onwards.Scott likes each of his films to be unique in story alongside visuals and with a new trilogy, they can potentially achieve that. That way we leave the whole franchise, as it is chronologically intact, explore the aliens origins and introduce new characters. If shaw is not in the film and what happens to her is eluded to, but not in detail, it can be explored in a sequel or in a separate film, if that's what they choose to do with her character, this way everything to do with prometheus and the alien movies remains intact, plus Scott gets more freedom to explore a new franchise, with new ideas.If we don't see any engineers in alien covenant, they may hold that back and explore it, in a separate film following shaws character arc, or they may just directly kill her off in alien covenant. Either way alot is happening, it's exciting, but also confusing, all we can do is speculate and debate for now.
Not that surprised honestly, given what little supplies and resources she had with her at the end of Prometheus it would have been ridiculous to have her somehow survive for 10 years. Obviously she could use the engineer's cryo technology, but having her concealed in cryo to be awakened later is a hackneyed and predictable idea, and we saw that trope used twice in Prometheus already (Weyland and last engineer).
So what's the story ? Is she or isn't she going to be in it ??
Ridley and word games.
We may not have Noomi, but we could have Shaw.
Now that should worry people.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 30, 2016, 07:03:10 AM
We may not have Noomi, but we could have Shaw.
Now that should worry people.
Oh man I didn't think about it in that way. No matter as long as it is Shaw that ends up in the Derelicts chair at the beginning of Alien. :laugh:
Quote from: Wobblyboddle77 on Jan 30, 2016, 05:20:41 AM
Alien Covenant appears to be ever changing and evolving as a production, i would think alot of this is probably down to Scott and Fox both seeing many different script iterations, then incorporating and carrying forward aspects of these scripts they liked to form the finalised screenplay.One thing Prometheus did, was divide opinion amongst its audience and the studio will look at, what worked about it and what didn't. Prometheus performed reasonably well at the box office, but it had faults in script, character writing alongside pacing.and fox know people want another Alien movie, but we want something which evokes the quality of the first two movies. With Neil Blomkamps recent movies not performing particularly well and the mixed opinions of bringing Ripley, Hicks and Newt back into the franchise by ignoring everything after Aliens is a risk.Maybe fox saw Ridley coming hot off the success of the martian and is much more bankable than Blomkamp at present. Fox know a new Alien film with Scott directing is going to have audiences queueing up to watch it and going back to explain the aliens origin is potentially safer than making a new aliens sequel by Neil Blomkamp, which disregards Alien 3 onwards.Scott likes each of his films to be unique in story alongside visuals and with a new trilogy, they can potentially achieve that. That way we leave the whole franchise, as it is chronologically intact, explore the aliens origins and introduce new characters. If shaw is not in the film and what happens to her is eluded to, but not in detail, it can be explored in a sequel or in a separate film, if that's what they choose to do with her character, this way everything to do with prometheus and the alien movies remains intact, plus Scott gets more freedom to explore a new franchise, with new ideas.If we don't see any engineers in alien covenant, they may hold that back and explore it, in a separate film following shaws character arc, or they may just directly kill her off in alien covenant. Either way alot is happening, it's exciting, but also confusing, all we can do is speculate and debate for now.
Something tells me that this film will be like "Star Wars: The Force Awakens". I.e, both sequel and reboot :P
Quote from: Crazy Shrimp on Jan 30, 2016, 10:24:19 AM
Something tells me that this film will be like "Star Wars: The Force Awakens". I.e, both sequel and reboot :P
So what you're saying is the Alien will have smaller phalluses off the side of it's head?
Maybe shaw will be that jockey in Alien 1? 0_o :D
COMES FULL CIRCLE ? lol
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 30, 2016, 07:03:10 AM
We may not have Noomi, but we could have Shaw.
Now that should worry people.
Now thats intriguing :laugh:
I honestly wouldn't read too much into this. The Daily Mail isn't the most reputable of sources.
Quote from: Wobblyboddle77 on Jan 30, 2016, 05:20:41 AM
Alien Covenant appears to be ever changing and evolving as a production, i would think alot of this is probably down to Scott and Fox both seeing many different script iterations, then incorporating and carrying forward aspects of these scripts they liked to form the finalised screenplay.One thing Prometheus did, was divide opinion amongst its audience and the studio will look at, what worked about it and what didn't. Prometheus performed reasonably well at the box office, but it had faults in script, character writing alongside pacing.and fox know people want another Alien movie, but we want something which evokes the quality of the first two movies. With Neil Blomkamps recent movies not performing particularly well and the mixed opinions of bringing Ripley, Hicks and Newt back into the franchise by ignoring everything after Aliens is a risk.Maybe fox saw Ridley coming hot off the success of the martian and is much more bankable than Blomkamp at present. Fox know a new Alien film with Scott directing is going to have audiences queueing up to watch it and going back to explain the aliens origin is potentially safer than making a new aliens sequel by Neil Blomkamp, which disregards Alien 3 onwards.Scott likes each of his films to be unique in story alongside visuals and with a new trilogy, they can potentially achieve that. That way we leave the whole franchise, as it is chronologically intact, explore the aliens origins and introduce new characters. If shaw is not in the film and what happens to her is eluded to, but not in detail, it can be explored in a sequel or in a separate film, if that's what they choose to do with her character, this way everything to do with prometheus and the alien movies remains intact, plus Scott gets more freedom to explore a new franchise, with new ideas.If we don't see any engineers in alien covenant, they may hold that back and explore it, in a separate film following shaws character arc, or they may just directly kill her off in alien covenant. Either way alot is happening, it's exciting, but also confusing, all we can do is speculate and debate for now.
I'm sure Fox did a thorough analysis of Prometheus and I'm sure they found that Shaw's venture off towards the engineer home world was among the most interesting parts of the film. So to not continue that thread would be very risky for fox.
Ridley Scott is so full of shit. The days of Alien and Blade Runner are long gone.
I think that's pretty safe to say...!
Quote from: mace-in-the-face on Jan 30, 2016, 05:18:00 PM
Ridley Scott is so full of shit. The days of Alien and Blade Runner are long gone.
So true.Even though the Martian was a great it wasn't HIS original idea its based of a book.
You know, the fact that Ridley keeps everybody off the scent of the film's true story works for me just fine. Do you really want to go into the film knowing everything?
Ripley can keep people off the scent by simply not talking, by continuously contradicting himself he looks incompetent.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 30, 2016, 05:46:37 PM
You know, the fact that Ridley keeps everybody off the scent of the film's true story works for me just fine. Do you really want to go into the film knowing everything?
True.
Ridley Scott has directed two of the best movies ever made. That's better than 99% of all directors. Today he continues to make great movie and much better than most. I don't think The Counselor, Thelma & Louise, Kingdom Of Heaven, American Gangster, Gladiator, Prometheus, Black Hawk Down and others are crap... not as good as probably Alien and Blade Runner, but very good nonetheless...
So even if some choices are strange or stupid, I wait to see the final result for Covenant, as it remains one of the most talented filmmakers of his time.
I really hope that Noomi Rapace will be in the film because she was well provided for Covenant. negotiations ...
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 30, 2016, 06:19:26 PM
Ripley can keep people off the scent by simply not talking, by continuously contradicting himself he looks incompetent.
"Ripley" XD
Yeah, I did learn that Ridley does tend to change things up often, similar things happened with Prometheus too.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 30, 2016, 06:42:45 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 30, 2016, 06:19:26 PM
Ripley can keep people off the scent by simply not talking, by continuously contradicting himself he looks incompetent.
"Ripley" XD
Yeah, I did learn that Ridley does tend to change things up often, similar things happened with Prometheus too.
XD
Quote from: x-M-x on Jan 30, 2016, 12:57:56 PM
Maybe shaw will be that jockey in Alien 1? 0_o :D
COMES FULL CIRCLE ? lol
That's up there with the kind of stuff (like David somehow creating the Aliens) that would just royally piss me off.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 30, 2016, 06:58:09 PM
Quote from: x-M-x on Jan 30, 2016, 12:57:56 PM
Maybe shaw will be that jockey in Alien 1? 0_o :D
COMES FULL CIRCLE ? lol
That's up there with the kind of stuff (like David somehow creating the Aliens) that would just royally piss me off.
I understand, but as I've mentioned before, I would not be surprised if both those things happen. I sort of expect them! I guess we'll see.
If they happen, it would be nothing less than a sacrilege.
This should be strictly forbidden by the Alienverse Constitution :P
Does anyone have a link to when Scott kept saying David will convince her to put his head back on and then he will become dangerous?
The concern I have now is that, he was saying this well into and after drafts of this Prometheus 2 script were finished.
How many changes could have been made in this short amount of time?
"Ridley can keep people off the scent by simply not talking, by continuously contradicting himself he looks incompetent."
Indeed. Pretty soon, it'll probably be announced that the xenomorph won't be in the movie either. Too many people out there are in denial that Ridley is a total hack now and still actually believe that he is capable of making another Alien or Blade Runner.
Simple search CainsSon :
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2014/12/11/ridley-scott-talks-david-prometheus-2/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2014/12/11/ridley-scott-talks-david-prometheus-2/)
For reminders, what Scott was saying about Shaw http://screenrant.com/prometheus-alien-connection-benk-176223/3/ (http://screenrant.com/prometheus-alien-connection-benk-176223/3/) on 06.08.2012 :
Scott: It's a bit of each. You do a bit of each and I've opened the doors. I know where it's going. I know that to keep him alive is essential and to keep her alive is essential and to go where they came from, not where I came from, is essential. That's a pretty open door and then rather than going to that, I don't see landing in a place that looks like paradise, that's not how it's going to be. There is a plan, yeah.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 30, 2016, 06:58:09 PM
Quote from: x-M-x on Jan 30, 2016, 12:57:56 PM
Maybe shaw will be that jockey in Alien 1? 0_o :D
COMES FULL CIRCLE ? lol
That's up there with the kind of stuff (like David somehow creating the Aliens) that would just royally piss me off.
Christ, let's hope not.... the way i see it... The space Jockey found em (eggs) that transport ship found in LV-426 ?
David will no doubt get his body back and has probs spent 10 years with shaw? or maybe less (no food water?) then he's on his own... then the crew of the covenant find him?
it's all mish/mash at the moment. (looking forward to a teaser) maybe Feb 2017? movie comes out in July 2017? my guess.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Jan 30, 2016, 06:42:45 PM
Yeah, I did learn that Ridley does tend to change things up often, similar things happened with Prometheus too.
And it shows.
With Alien it was his
focus that made the movie come out so well. Yeah, he had ideas, but he stuck to his guns and kept pushing forward.
Don't nobody know nothin' about nothin'!! I'm seeing Ridley getting flamed here over what is essentially conjecture. Nobody knows for sure what will be Shaw's role in the story or if it is being saved for another film. Yes, Ridley circles around the truth a lot but his films deliver. Just let it be and criticize once we have the final product...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 31, 2016, 02:02:04 AM
Just let it be and criticize once we have the final product...
I'm sure we'll do that too. ;) :D In all seriousness tho, I'll give Ridley a fair chance when the movie comes out.
Her character was stupid and uninteresting. The whole religion angle, especially, of her character is very old hat and boring. I'll be glad if they quietly shuffle her off stage in the opening credits. Just my opinion.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 31, 2016, 05:50:05 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 31, 2016, 02:02:04 AM
Just let it be and criticize once we have the final product...
I'm sure we'll do that too. ;) :D In all seriousness tho, I'll give Ridley a fair chance when the movie comes out.
Yea what else are we supposed to do in the mean time? Start a campfire and sing a couple of songs? :P I for one absolutely adore Ridley for revisiting the alien franchise. It's never a one man job in anything we do but I believe that Ridley Scott was one of the main driving forces that got Prometheus off the ground. I have no doubt that he loves the alien universe and wants to give us a huge story full of monsters, horror and science fiction. It sure beats giant blue people in my opinion. Go go Scott. Still that doesn't excuse him for forgetting what he was talking about and then just saying whatever it is that's on his mind at any given time. :P
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 31, 2016, 06:37:55 AM
Her character was stupid and uninteresting. The whole religion angle, especially, of her character is very old hat and boring. I'll be glad if they quietly shuffle her off stage in the opening credits. Just my opinion.
No he's stuck with her, like others have said, we do not want a repeat of Alien³. Ridley talks a lot about having a strong female lead but I'd prefer it if Shaw became the outright villain.
Couldn't be more pleased she won't be in it, and hopefully they just pass her absence off with David explaining to the covenant crew that he was part of a doomed weyland expedition and that there were others but they're all dead now. Then swiftly move on!
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 31, 2016, 06:37:55 AM
Her character was stupid and uninteresting. The whole religion angle, especially, of her character is very old hat and boring. I'll be glad if they quietly shuffle her off stage in the opening credits. Just my opinion.
Yep, this exactly!
Quote from: CainsSon on Jan 30, 2016, 09:27:30 PM
Does anyone have a link to when Scott kept saying David will convince her to put his head back on and then he will become dangerous?
From December 2014:
QuoteWhen asked whether the sequel will follow on with the story of Shaw and David, Ridley responded:
"You can't have a person go off into the galaxy and have a person who's still got his head off. Once that head goes back on, he's really dangerous, but he's also very seductive. So maybe he'll persuade her to help him put the head back."
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2014/12/11/ridley-scott-talks-david-prometheus-2/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2014/12/11/ridley-scott-talks-david-prometheus-2/)
And another similar quote from November last year:
QuoteSo I'm now going to the next one, which is the next evolution directly connected with the first one, which was this Shaw, when he replaced Michael Fassbender in two pieces and we'll kind of pick it up there and it will evolve. When that's finished there'll be another one and then another one which will gradually drive into the back entrance of the film in 1979."
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2015/11/27/alien-covenant-shooting-march-new-trilogy-further-details/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2015/11/27/alien-covenant-shooting-march-new-trilogy-further-details/)
Those 2 engineer suits behind Noomi in that picture on the main page are how the Space Jockeys SHOULD have looked in Prometheus. I digress.
Dont really care about Shaw not being in it. Didnt really care about any of the characters in Prometheus tbh.
Still looking forward to this at least bc of the Hard R rating, and apparently being more "Alien", than Prometheus was.
Still waiting for Blomkamp's Alien V....
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 31, 2016, 06:37:55 AM
Her character was stupid and uninteresting. The whole religion angle, especially, of her character is very old hat and boring. I'll be glad if they quietly shuffle her off stage in the opening credits. Just my opinion.
Noomi seems like a decent enough actress but yeah, her character was really just a bit silly and boring really.
It seems like Alien: Covenant will be a sequel to Prometheus in the same way that Scott's Robin Hood was a sequel to Kingdom of Heaven.
I wonder how much else has changed since those quotes posted by the eighth passenger.
I am so glad that she's not gonna be in the sequel to Prometheus!! I couldn't stand her and she was way too boring and not interesting. I couldn't give a crap whether she was gonna live or die in Prometheus. In my opinion should have just killed her off in Prometheus.
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Jan 31, 2016, 04:53:43 PM
I wonder how much else has changed since those quotes posted by the eighth passenger.
That's what Im saying. Im not flaming Scott. That's not my intention. But I find it hard not to get frustrated with the execs on the Alien franchise.
They consistently have the same problem where they Greenlight an ALIEN film, and pay absolutely no ATTENTION to what will come next.
How could they have made PROMETHEUS, with such open-ended questions, and not only considered, but MAPPED out the storyline for the rest of the trilogy?
After seven films with the Alien somehow involved, and all the trouble the lack of direction caused in the past, how unbelievably stupid is that?
This is a billion-dollar franchise. They can't pay a writer another 40g to come up with a long term story-arc? It's incredible that these people don't have this ability to anticipate, at their level. It doesn't derail a production to take an extra month and have some table meetings about where things are going. And this is likely all they've done. Take an extra month after those meetings and pay a writer to develop the whole thing.
This is especially frustrating when I hear Ridley Scott say things like: "James Cameron convinced me to go back to Sci-fi" and "I was inspired by Star Wars..." Well, those respective franchises had enough sense to develop stories for their entire trilogies before getting started...
Why doesn't FOX do this with ALIEN?
And when you have fans get so excited to see BLOMKAMP bring back these beloved characters, that should be a giant flag waving that tells them this is what they need to do.
I don't necessarily have any attachment to Shaw, but I do get really frustrated with inconsistent story lines. And shelving BLOMKAMP's thing, which already pissed me off cause it would ignore the plots of other films, to make this, and then shrug off the plot of one before it... Its registering as messy to me, right now.
I seriously hope FOX and SCOTT know where this 'NEW TRILOGY' is going NOW, and aren't thinking they will figure it out later.
Quote from: CainsSon on Jan 31, 2016, 05:16:52 PM
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Jan 31, 2016, 04:53:43 PM
I wonder how much else has changed since those quotes posted by the eighth passenger.
That's what Im saying. Im not flaming Scott. That's not my intention. But I find it hard not to get frustrated with the execs on the Alien franchise.
They consistently have the same problem where they Greenlight an ALIEN film, and pay absolutely no ATTENTION to what will come next.
How could they have made PROMETHEUS, with such open-ended questions, and not only considered, but MAPPED out the storyline for the rest of the trilogy?
After seven films with the Alien somehow involved, and all the trouble the lack of direction caused in the past, how unbelievably stupid is that?
This is a billion-dollar franchise. They can't pay a writer another 40g to come up with a long term story-arc? It's incredible that these people don't have this ability to anticipate, at their level. It doesn't derail a production to take an extra month and have some table meetings about where things are going. And this is likely all they've done. Take an extra month after those meetings and pay a writer to develop the whole thing.
This is especially frustrating when I hear Ridley Scott say things like: "James Cameron convinced me to go back to Sci-fi" and "I was inspired by Star Wars..." Well, those respective franchises had enough sense to develop stories for their entire trilogies before getting started...
Why doesn't FOX do this with ALIEN?
And when you have fans get so excited to see BLOMKAMP bring back these beloved characters, that should be a giant flag waving that tells them this is what they need to do.
I don't necessarily have any attachment to Shaw, but I do get really frustrated with inconsistent story lines. And shelving BLOMKAMP's thing, which already pissed me off cause it would ignore the plots of other films, to make this, and then shrug off the plot of one before it... Its registering as messy to me, right now.
I seriously hope FOX and SCOTT know where this 'NEW TRILOGY' is going.
Well said.
Quote from: CainsSon on Jan 31, 2016, 05:16:52 PM
How could they have made PROMETHEUS, with such open-ended questions, and not only considered, but MAPPED out the storyline for the rest of the trilogy?
Totally.
Like, Lucas had no expectation that he was gonna get to make 'Star Wars 2'. But he still had it all mapped out (in broad strokes), just in case!
I actually really liked Prometheus for the most part, because I
thought they had a plan. In light of all this weird news coming out, it's actually making me like the film less. :-\
"My name is Elizabeth Shaw, and I'm still searching..."
"My name is David, and Elizabeth Shaw died ten years ago. Look! Aliens!"
I actually kind of get the feeling they do have a fair idea of where they are going this time, and that may be one of the reasons as to why rapace has been dropped. Shaw is such a thread to prometheus, if that thread is cut, then suddenly that gives this new movie/trilogy freedom to go where it wants to go. There was an interview recently with scott where he said something along the lines of "really it's alien, is prometheus taking us off course of where we are going? which is actually backing into the first alien" - I'm paraphrasing but to me that seems as though what he is explaining is that prometheus was filled with ideas and was pulling off in a different direction (thanks to lindelof in a lot of ways) and now what they have done is sort of re-focused the whole story and concept to direct it towards the first Alien. This may also be why Scott has said that the aliens will appear in all their forms in the new movie (music to my ears! ;D )
When Prometheus was first officially announced the whole idea was for the film to take an all new and different direction from Alien -
"While Alien was indeed the jumping off point for this project, out of the creative process evolved a new, grand mythology and universe in which this original story takes place," said Scott. "The keen fan will recognise strands of Alien's DNA, so to speak, but the ideas tackled in this film are unique, large and provocative. I couldn't be more pleased to have found the singular tale I'd been searching for, and finally return to this genre that's so close to my heart."
However, so far the official announcement and news from Alien Covenant seems to be re associating itself to Alien -
"Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in 'Alien' with 'Alien: Covenant', the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with 'Prometheus' — and connects directly to Scott's 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world — whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition."
I really hope that Scott and co have decided to focus on producing an actual prequel to the first Alien rather than a sort of original but not really original strands of alien DNA but it's a different series thing altogether.
In all fairness to them, Scott and Lindelof did say they had ideas for where they were going. Perhaps the reception and Lindelof's departure (as a result of that reception?) left them a bit rudderless.
A film about David doing things...What's wrong with that? Now everyone seems to be fans of Dr. Shaw doing things :laugh:
I don't really mind it. I much preferred Fassbender and David. I just don't want it to come off as too cheap or hokey.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FCaD575hUsAAaqsl.jpg&hash=7946d9237f42937eb1a976249699d672c86f06a8)
Sorry to disappoint all the Shaw-haters, but I seriously doubt we have seen the last of her :) Either she is off Tombraidin' on Paradise:Planet or she's asleep in that Engineer hyper-sleep pod which worked pretty nifty for 2 millennia, so she'll be back in a later movie ;D
As for Blomkamp, i really hope that movie never gets made...that will be just like J.J.Abrams..."star wars:the force awakens" blatant stroking ripley fans...I'm so sick of that a xenomorph franchise shouldn't be able to go anywhere without having a particular human, ripley, attached to every freaking movie...ripley is worse than the face-hugers...instead of calling it Alien 5, call it Ripley 5...or "Ripley 5: Hicks & Newt strikes back!"
No more force awakens plz...I don't care how many would go see the movie...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCxmyVsQ.jpg&hash=0d02b0313e173395cb7f382288785d1eed0cedc5)
We certainly live in an era where nostalgia is more important to studios than good storytelling; I often get the feeling that the Alien series should have just ended after Aliens, that way everybody is more or less happy.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 29, 2016, 02:54:00 PM
I do intend on visiting that museum and bar at some point. I've been wanting to for a while.
For what it's worth, the bar closes at 8pm! ???
But it's still worth a trip. The museum next door is incredible.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 31, 2016, 06:37:44 PM
In all fairness to them, Scott and Lindelof did say they had ideas for where they were going. Perhaps the reception and Lindelof's departure (as a result of that reception?) left them a bit rudderless.
Yes they certainly did!
And to respond to some other people above, I def remember the time-line wholeheartedly and I prefer them offering more of an Alien connection this time around. My assumption from the get-go (after seeing Prometheus) was that we would eventually see the things Lindeloff cut from the Spaihts script in these next films.
The issue I take now, is one where, there have been 3 writers, and Ridley Scott with ideas, and whatever Lindeloff and Scott developed together, and no doubt, many of Spaihts original ideas... That they only NOW know that Shaw has been been completely nixed, is troubling to me. It makes me think there is someone interfering. The other option is that someone came up with a great idea that changed a lot of things.
I hope I'm wrong about there being difficulties and based on my love for this series, including PROMETHEUS, I will end up liking this film... I just don't want them to fall off course even more, and I think they hopefully realize they need to pull things together.
Who knows,... Maybe that's WHY things are where they are now? Maybe in the interest of keeping things together they decided to lose Shaw. At the end of the day, the best idea should be what they commit to most and all things should be set aside to make room for the best idea if necessary. I just hope they HAVE ONE. Heh.
And actually I hope it's a very different move and not just fan service. That's what I like about this series. From the moment Dallas is killed by jazz hands... and straightaway throughout. Even when I haven't liked the developments, Ive liked that it was different.
As of now, ALL of the sequels, IMO, make this the best, most consistently interesting Sci-Fi franchise of all time. Even its failures are interesting failures. NOTE: I dont consider AVP in-franchise whatsoever, so really no need to bring that up.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 31, 2016, 09:58:02 PMWe certainly live in an era where nostalgia is more important to studios than good storytelling.
This, sadly.
Quote from: ADC on Jan 31, 2016, 10:18:28 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 29, 2016, 02:54:00 PM
I do intend on visiting that museum and bar at some point. I've been wanting to for a while.
For what it's worth, the bar closes at 8pm! ???
But it's still worth a trip. The museum next door is incredible.
You ended up going? I remember you talking about it. Jealous! Did it cost much?
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/prometheus/38732/alien-covenant-noomi-rapace-wont-return-says-ridley-scott
So Shaw is going to be in the movie but she isn't going to be played by Rapace? or is this just more of the same thing from a few days ago? Seems to have gotten a strong second life if so.
Same news as before.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 01, 2016, 09:26:32 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 31, 2016, 09:58:02 PMWe certainly live in an era where nostalgia is more important to studios than good storytelling.
This, sadly.
No. This is an apples and oranges comparison. You can certainly have a good story which features nostalgia. The problem is that the studios don't seem to be focused on good storytelling. Period. It's the same old story over and over.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 01, 2016, 02:34:50 PMYou can certainly have a good story which features nostalgia. The problem is that the studios don't seem to be focused on good storytelling.
...which is exactly what predxeno said?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 01, 2016, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 01, 2016, 02:34:50 PMYou can certainly have a good story which features nostalgia. The problem is that the studios don't seem to be focused on good storytelling.
...which is exactly what predxeno said?
He said nostalgia is more important to studios than good storytelling. I think the two are unrelated. You can have a very good nostalgia driven story with good storytelling. The studios are basically allowing storytelling to take second place behind many other aspects. Particularly the science fiction genre is driven by special effects. Story telling takes a back seat to that as well. Hollywood will literally tell 3 or 4 tales with stories that truly grip you per year, and those are then pushed for Oscar nominations. Seems like everything else is fodder and filler. They basically have a formula which calculates how many people they can expect to attend the movies.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 01, 2016, 03:06:14 PMHe said nostalgia is more important to studios than good storytelling. ... The studios are basically allowing storytelling to take second place behind many other aspects.
???
Which is basically the exact same point.
The studios are throwing in tons of nostalgia because it's an easier way to get butts on seats then developing a decent story, but it's to the detriment of the films.
No its not to the detriment of the films. By your definition, nostalgia = bad storytelling. Nostalgia can create a terrific framework for good stories. It all comes down to the commitment of the studios to put out good stories, which does not seem to be there, regardless of nostalgia. But that goes for 95% of the films out there. I bet some really great stories could be told with nostalgic references.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 01, 2016, 03:35:24 PMBy your definition, nostalgia = bad storytelling.
When did either of us ever say that?
We said nostalgia =/= a suitable replacement for storytelling, which is how the studios seem to be playing it more often than not.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 01, 2016, 03:56:02 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 01, 2016, 03:35:24 PMBy your definition, nostalgia = bad storytelling.
When did either of us ever say that?
We said nostalgia =/= a suitable replacement for storytelling, which is how the studios seem to be playing it more often than not.
You said throwing in tons of Nostalgia is to the detriment of the films.
Care to quote me?
I simply agreed that "we certainly live in an era where nostalgia is more important to studios than good storytelling."
I think he's referring to this post.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 01, 2016, 03:13:05 PM
The studios are throwing in tons of nostalgia because it's an easier way to get butts on seats then developing a decent story, but it's to the detriment of the films.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 01, 2016, 04:21:25 PM
I think he's referring to this post.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 01, 2016, 03:13:05 PM
The studios are throwing in tons of nostalgia because it's an easier way to get butts on seats then developing a decent story, but it's to the detriment of the films.
Yes that is what I am referring to.
But that's not saying the nostalgia itself is the problem. It's saying the problem is the studios' focus on that nostalgia at the expense of the story.
People may go and see the movie because of that nostalgia, but that doesn't make it a good movie. It doesn't necessarily make it a bad one, either, of course. But it certainly doesn't help when nostalgia is the only substance the film has.
Basically Nostalgia can be much like special effects. You can make a spectacle that reaches the limits of the imagination, but if there is no good story to justify it, then the film will fall flat. I mean I literally fell asleep at the last Transformers film. There was just a whirring mess of special effects on the screen and no story to grab hold of. But I am saying that the use of nostalgia or special effects does not by nature affect the quality of the story telling. The lack thereof is more to do with poor storytelling Hollywood in general. Films that don't rely on nostalgia or special effects are just as bad storywise. I'd say there's really no relation to the use of nostalgia or special effects. Just seemingly a bunch of hacks writing the stories...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 01, 2016, 04:46:01 PMBut I am saying that the use of nostalgia or special effects does not by nature affect the quality of the story telling.
And we never claimed it did. Basically, I completely agree. We're just saying the nostalgia binge is just strong with Hollywood at the moment, and currently nostalgia seems to be the go-to medium to try and cover for the fact you have a weak story.
A few years ago I would've argued CGI was the big offender in that regard.
Fine, then let's agree to agree. ;)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 31, 2016, 03:36:41 PM
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 31, 2016, 06:37:55 AM
Her character was stupid and uninteresting. The whole religion angle, especially, of her character is very old hat and boring. I'll be glad if they quietly shuffle her off stage in the opening credits. Just my opinion.
Noomi seems like a decent enough actress but yeah, her character was really just a bit silly and boring really.
She is a very good actress, which makes it doubly sad, because she
can do strong characters and very physical acting. That side of her, however, just wasn't there in Prometheus - they made her appear like a childish twit.
Noomi was great in 'The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo', in terms of 'Prometheus', she was just given the wrong material.
I know people will point the finger at Lindeloff but really, it's the Director that needs to pick up on weaknesses within all parts of the Production and address them. Scott really should have pulled his finger out on that one.
He could have had a great character on screen, if the actor was given the right material (or even the wrong material) and directed well.
As it stands, Shaw comes across as vapid and ineffective. Noomi could have really brought a great character to life given the right conditions. This movie wasn't it.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: windebieste on Feb 02, 2016, 08:05:34 AM
Noomi was great in 'The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo', in terms of 'Prometheus', she was just given the wrong material.
I know people will point the finger at Lindeloff but really, it's the Director that needs to pick up on weaknesses within all parts of the Production and address them. Scott really should have pulled his finger out on that one.
He could have had a great character on screen, if the actor was given the right material (or even the wrong material) and directed well.
As it stands, Shaw comes across as vapid and ineffective. Noomi could have really brought a great character to life given the right conditions. This movie wasn't it.
-Windebieste.
It's clear to me, from how religiously I followed PROMETHEUS during its development, that the actors and crew were working long before they had a shooting script. Those Lindeloff rewrites to the script they were hired and designing from, were fairly drastic and I think the timing of that hurt the final product because of the layered nature of the rewrite's content... IE; its loftier ideas, as introduced by Lindeloff so late into PREPRODUCTION, I Assistant Direct, and it's just a very bad idea to have a rewrite like that in the midst of having made so much progress already. The atmosphere on a Production at a time like that, for ideas like that, its just not good timing. They just couldn't think things through well enough and there was too much already in place to be properly objective about what had to change to make room for the new ideas and which old ideas were better.
I blame this for all of PROMETHEUS's short-comings.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 01, 2016, 04:46:01 PM
Basically Nostalgia can be much like special effects. You can make a spectacle that reaches the limits of the imagination, but if there is no good story to justify it, then the film will fall flat. I mean I literally fell asleep at the last Transformers film. There was just a whirring mess of special effects on the screen and no story to grab hold of. But I am saying that the use of nostalgia or special effects does not by nature affect the quality of the story telling. The lack thereof is more to do with poor storytelling Hollywood in general. Films that don't rely on nostalgia or special effects are just as bad storywise. I'd say there's really no relation to the use of nostalgia or special effects. Just seemingly a bunch of hacks writing the stories...
Let's write responses with nostalgia for the time when we weren't talking about nostalgia as much. ;D
Quote from: Astronoë on Jan 31, 2016, 09:14:51 PM
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaD575hUsAAaqsl.jpg
Sorry to disappoint all the Shaw-haters, but I seriously doubt we have seen the last of her :) Either she is off Tombraidin' on Paradise:Planet or she's asleep in that Engineer hyper-sleep pod which worked pretty nifty for 2 millennia, so she'll be back in a later movie ;D
As for Blomkamp, i really hope that movie never gets made...that will be just like J.J.Abrams..."star wars:the force awakens" blatant stroking ripley fans...I'm so sick of that a xenomorph franchise shouldn't be able to go anywhere without having a particular human, ripley, attached to every freaking movie...ripley is worse than the face-hugers...instead of calling it Alien 5, call it Ripley 5...or "Ripley 5: Hicks & Newt strikes back!"
No more force awakens plz...I don't care how many would go see the movie...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCxmyVsQ.jpg&hash=0d02b0313e173395cb7f382288785d1eed0cedc5)
I love this post, lol. Nice job.
As was said earlier in the comments, this decision to me makes it really feel like they're a bit lost as to where they want the story to go. In many interviews, Ridley expresses the constant need to 'sell tickets' and how hard that is, which just continues to illuminate the pathetic state that Hollywood has fallen to.
I mean of course they have to sell tickets, but it's an insane world where tickets are not sold by good movies, but by formulas to appeal to people's base impulses, nostalgia/remakes, and constant references to former,
better, films.
It really is obvious that Hollywood's riding a better era of filmmaking as hard as they can into the ground, and the only solution is for the bottom to fall out so creativity can return and the cycle can start anew.
I also think it's worth mentioning that who actually trusts them to come up with a cohesive story, given how much of a disaster they've left the entire franchise? Hell, it's spilled over into
4 different franchises now that are each their own disasters. I'd say the lore and universe with the most consistency left is Predator.
TV is where creativity is at...and they are less worried about ratings n such.
I hate to say this, but to make TV series could breed new life into the franchise..I'd still prefer to a see a movie, but I have serious doubts it will be any good...why is Hollywood shunning all the good writers...I mean people who make some bimbo music videos get hired to make movies..wtf dudes..
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 03, 2016, 08:12:21 PMI'd say the lore and universe with the most consistency left is Predator.
In contrast to Alien franchise, Predator isn't snared by one main character like Ripley..they had many and 'different' environments...Arnie, Danny Glover, Adrien Brody
one complaint about the last Predator movie, those darn Predator hound-creatures didn't make sense, too many spikes in all directions, irl they would get stuck in everything all the time, n probably starve to death, lol..whoever designed those, played too much Warcraft "add spikes, MOAR SPIKES!"
a design has to make sense, not just try to appear 'cool' which is why I cringed when I saw the Deacon at the end of Prometheus...that extra upper jaw...could it get bitten by its other upper jaw?? it goes *nom nom nom* and instead it bites itself rather than the victim..and what is up with herbivore/omnivore n carnivorous teeth?? Symmetry on that designed creature was fail...
I'm still hoping Shaw will undergo some transformation (Fall in black goo/experimented on by David or the Engineers) and end up looking like this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vagallery.com%2Fuploads%2F2%2F5%2F9%2F7%2F2597378%2F548974759.jpg&hash=fc82429bf38b33d821822deb9dc5f9c71c1d1246)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi4.tagstat.com%2Fp1%2Fp%2F8kaO53O0diZVMrw-Zt82-xYhBQxowqnCoGznbzRScX8%3D.jpg&hash=48b4f6f2438c46d255f1919a8c7ceee24d31d712)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpayload14.cargocollective.com%2F1%2F1%2F60195%2F2590069%2Fhr_giger_dreads.jpg&hash=34170bb2867243d95833b924af1930a5fb41c45d)
How cool would it be to see a Giger inspired Shaw? Very.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 04, 2016, 02:24:05 AM
I'm still hoping Shaw will undergo some transformation (Fall in black goo/experimented on by David or the Engineers) and end up looking like this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vagallery.com%2Fuploads%2F2%2F5%2F9%2F7%2F2597378%2F548974759.jpg&hash=fc82429bf38b33d821822deb9dc5f9c71c1d1246)
http://i4.tagstat.com/p1/p/8kaO53O0diZVMrw-Zt82-xYhBQxowqnCoGznbzRScX8=.jpg
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpayload14.cargocollective.com%2F1%2F1%2F60195%2F2590069%2Fhr_giger_dreads.jpg&hash=34170bb2867243d95833b924af1930a5fb41c45d)
How cool would it be to see a Giger inspired Shaw? Very.
As long as she doesn't end up being the pilot in the Derelict I don't mind seeing this kind of transformation. I'd rather see something like this than Fifield.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 04, 2016, 08:34:50 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 04, 2016, 02:24:05 AM
I'm still hoping Shaw will undergo some transformation (Fall in black goo/experimented on by David or the Engineers) and end up looking like this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vagallery.com%2Fuploads%2F2%2F5%2F9%2F7%2F2597378%2F548974759.jpg&hash=fc82429bf38b33d821822deb9dc5f9c71c1d1246)
http://i4.tagstat.com/p1/p/8kaO53O0diZVMrw-Zt82-xYhBQxowqnCoGznbzRScX8=.jpg
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpayload14.cargocollective.com%2F1%2F1%2F60195%2F2590069%2Fhr_giger_dreads.jpg&hash=34170bb2867243d95833b924af1930a5fb41c45d)
How cool would it be to see a Giger inspired Shaw? Very.
As long as she doesn't end up being the pilot in the Derelict I don't mind seeing this kind of transformation. I'd rather see something like this than Fifield.
So basically Shaw becomes God?
No - like something Giger would draw.
Perhaps my only problem with a desire to see Giger stuff is Giger is no longer here to design it, and I'm not sure how well it could be imitated.
Yea it sucks that he's not here to make it but still that is what we want to see.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 04, 2016, 09:02:51 AM
Perhaps my only problem with a desire to see Giger stuff is Giger is no longer here to design it, and I'm not sure how well it could be imitated.
IMO, the imitators are not very good. I'm sure determined people working from his older, original designs could cobble together a decent pastiche. The thing of it is, the Giger whose work we love mostly stopped working in the '90s. Even if he were given carte blanche to do his thing his way for Prometheus, I don't know that we would have been that happy with the result. People change over time, and I think Giger's work changed accordingly.
You'll never be able to match the original but there are some out there who have a very good and similar style. Gutalin, who's concepts for Prometheus weren't used, for example.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 04, 2016, 03:06:16 PM
You'll never be able to match the original but there are some out there who have a very good and similar style. Gutalin, who's concepts for Prometheus weren't used, for example.
Determined pastiche. It'd probably be good enough, but somebody would have to push the guy to go further. Matching the original requires the mindset as well as the form. Giger went further on his own because it was in him to do that. He was comfortable doing that. That's the real difference, and that's what's missing.
There is mainly a lack of magnetizing weirdness, as well as the bio component of Giger's stuff in Gutalin's art. Still no doubt that this russian guy is very talented.
Can we force some artist to do somebody else's work ? ... Probably not, but I'd like him to take the challenge of matching that mindset you are talking about.
Quote from: Primordial on Feb 04, 2016, 08:34:11 PM
There is mainly a lack of magnetizing weirdness, as well as the bio component of Giger's stuff in Gutalin's art. Still no doubt that this russian guy is very talented.
True, his work is quite metallic but the foundation is definitely there in the patterns he does. I don't think loosing Giger means we wont see any Giger-esque going forward.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 04, 2016, 10:08:42 PM
Quote from: Primordial on Feb 04, 2016, 08:34:11 PM
There is mainly a lack of magnetizing weirdness, as well as the bio component of Giger's stuff in Gutalin's art. Still no doubt that this russian guy is very talented.
True, his work is quite metallic but the foundation is definitely there in the patterns he does. I don't think loosing Giger means we wont see any Giger-esque going forward.
I actually gave some taught to the idea for the sudden name change was because Giger is no longer here. Maybe they wanted to use his atheistic but didn't want him on set or simply didn't like his ideas. Kind of harking back to the feelings on the set of Alien³ and well Aliens for that matter. Which would have been awkward as f**k. So when he passed away the opportunity to do it materialized. Meaning that all of this metallic bullshit dies with Prometheus. :P
Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 04, 2016, 10:28:14 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 04, 2016, 10:08:42 PM
Quote from: Primordial on Feb 04, 2016, 08:34:11 PM
There is mainly a lack of magnetizing weirdness, as well as the bio component of Giger's stuff in Gutalin's art. Still no doubt that this russian guy is very talented.
True, his work is quite metallic but the foundation is definitely there in the patterns he does. I don't think loosing Giger means we wont see any Giger-esque going forward.
I actually gave some taught to the idea for the sudden name change was because Giger is no longer here. Maybe they wanted to use his atheistic but didn't want him on set or simply didn't like his ideas. Kind of harking back to the feelings on the set of Alien³ and well Aliens for that matter. Which would have been awkward as f**k. So when he passed away the opportunity to do it materialized. Meaning that all of this metallic bullshit dies with Prometheus. :P
Do we have confirmation that Prometheus went 'metallic' to avoid static from Giger? I never heard that.
I'd say Prometheus was more stone, not metal. The metalic I was referring to was the concept art by Gutalin. It's never overtly said why but it just seems like Arthur Max didn't like Giger's style.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 04, 2016, 11:27:04 PM
It's never overtly said why but it just seems like Arthur Max didn't like Giger's style.
Unless something interesting happened, Arthur Max will be the production designer on the new film, right? I doubt much will change.
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Feb 05, 2016, 01:12:09 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 04, 2016, 11:27:04 PM
It's never overtly said why but it just seems like Arthur Max didn't like Giger's style.
Unless something interesting happened, Arthur Max will be the production designer on the new film, right? I doubt much will change.
He's not. He said so in a recent video interview, think it was with Collider.
I got the impression from what he said that he was given the boot.
Quote from: tmjhur on Feb 05, 2016, 01:34:48 AM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Feb 05, 2016, 01:12:09 AM
Unless something interesting happened, Arthur Max will be the production designer on the new film, right? I doubt much will change.
He's not. He said so in a recent video interview, think it was with Collider.
I got the impression from what he said that he was given the boot.
I see. That *is* interesting. Okay. 8)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 04, 2016, 11:27:04 PM
I'd say Prometheus was more stone, not metal. The metalic I was referring to was the concept art by Gutalin. It's never overtly said why but it just seems like Arthur Max didn't like Giger's style.
The Juggernaut looked more like metal than the derelict. Of course the rest of the building was stone.
Oh and it's just a thought I had. I mean we went through all of this it's an alien prequel then it's not and then Prometheus 2 became Paradise lost and then Giger died and now it's Alien:Covenant. It's been over a year so I guess it's ok. :P
Quote from: tmjhur on Feb 05, 2016, 01:34:48 AM
He's not. He said so in a recent video interview, think it was with Collider.
I got the impression from what he said that he was given the boot.
Which pleases me so much.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 05, 2016, 01:52:05 AM
The Juggernaut looked more like metal than the derelict. Of course the rest of the building was stone.
I was referring more to the interior but that still does have a metal appearance. I just notice the stone a lot. Regardless, the absence of the real biomechanical is the most noticeable.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 05, 2016, 08:10:21 AM
Quote from: tmjhur on Feb 05, 2016, 01:34:48 AM
He's not. He said so in a recent video interview, think it was with Collider.
I got the impression from what he said that he was given the boot.
Which pleases me so much.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 05, 2016, 01:52:05 AM
The Juggernaut looked more like metal than the derelict. Of course the rest of the building was stone.
I was referring more to the interior but that still does have a metal appearance. I just notice the stone a lot. Regardless, the absence of the real biomechanical is the most noticeable.
I read a couple of interviews with him last night from around the time of Prometheus' release and he was saying that he/they decided to making the Jockey stuff much more mechanical and metallic looking. He was talking about how they had to backwards engineer everything so that it could eventually evolve into what we see in Alien. So I'm guessing the black goo is somewhat responsible for ship we see in the original movie......
I probably would imagine that Arthur Max just didn't have an attachment to Giger's work and could happily take or leave it, but didn't bond with it and so didn't have much in the way of ideas stemming from it.
Maybe Shaw did but david together BEFORE they left LV223. And then she went in to cryosleep, with David in the pilots chair. As some one said the cryopods works for thousands of years. Maybe David didnt wake Shaw up from Cryo when they arrived on Paradise. Alien Covenant could end with Shaw being awaken by some one or something. I live in Sweden and she is Swedish and i know that she is doing an interview with Swedish TV4 sometime in February. Maybe she lets something slip there!
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Feb 05, 2016, 01:12:09 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 04, 2016, 11:27:04 PM
It's never overtly said why but it just seems like Arthur Max didn't like Giger's style.
Unless something interesting happened, Arthur Max will be the production designer on the new film, right? I doubt much will change.
Apparently Chris Seagers will be the PD for Alien: Covenant.
A production designer is a bit irrelevant on a Ridley Scott film anyway.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Feb 05, 2016, 02:59:40 PM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Feb 05, 2016, 01:12:09 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 04, 2016, 11:27:04 PM
It's never overtly said why but it just seems like Arthur Max didn't like Giger's style.
Unless something interesting happened, Arthur Max will be the production designer on the new film, right? I doubt much will change.
Apparently Chris Seagers will be the PD for Alien: Covenant.
A production designer is a bit irrelevant on a Ridley Scott film anyway.
That's not true at all. Ridley may be visually brilliant and a very talented artist but the scope of any film of his has always been much too large for him to be designing everything. He hires equally talented artists to himself and then picks and chooses what he likes and doesn't like.
Ridley is the curator not the creator.
In truth, he hires artists MUCH, MUCH more talented than himself. And there is wisdom in that. If you are in a position to hire people to work for you, always surround yourself with those who are better than you. Syd Mead, H.R. Giger...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 05, 2016, 03:29:45 PM
In truth, he hires artists MUCH, MUCH more talented than himself. And there is wisdom in that. If you are in a position to hire people to work for you, always surround yourself with those who are better than you. Syd Mead, H.R. Giger...
Sure well I agree with that. Arthur Max was fine for The Martian because it's based in reality but not for what I hope is nightmarish science fiction horror in Covenant.
Quote from: tmjhur on Feb 05, 2016, 03:27:52 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Feb 05, 2016, 02:59:40 PM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Feb 05, 2016, 01:12:09 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 04, 2016, 11:27:04 PM
It's never overtly said why but it just seems like Arthur Max didn't like Giger's style.
Unless something interesting happened, Arthur Max will be the production designer on the new film, right? I doubt much will change.
Apparently Chris Seagers will be the PD for Alien: Covenant.
A production designer is a bit irrelevant on a Ridley Scott film anyway.
Ridley may be visually brilliant and a very talented artist but the scope of any film of his has always been much too large for him to be designing everything. He hires equally talented artists to himself and then picks and chooses what he likes and doesn't like.
Ridley is the curator not the creator.
While it's true that the scope of his films has always been too large for him to handle everything by himself, he is the man who calls all the shots with regards to the look of the film. He is well known (even notorious) for micromanaging the art department which is really the PD's job.
Here's a quote from Michael Deely (Blade Runner producer):
Quote"In a sense, no major production designer or art director would ever work with Ridley, because Ridley wouldn't let him do what he wanted. But Ridley would be right in doing that. He started out in design, you know, and he always knows what he wants. Frankly, Ridley is one of the best production designers ever."
So while all those individual artists are still important, the role of the production designer becomes a bit moot. Ridley Scott is as much the production designer on his films as he is the director.
Quote from: tmjhur on Feb 05, 2016, 11:07:49 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 05, 2016, 08:10:21 AM
Quote from: tmjhur on Feb 05, 2016, 01:34:48 AM
He's not. He said so in a recent video interview, think it was with Collider.
I got the impression from what he said that he was given the boot.
Which pleases me so much.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 05, 2016, 01:52:05 AM
The Juggernaut looked more like metal than the derelict. Of course the rest of the building was stone.
I was referring more to the interior but that still does have a metal appearance. I just notice the stone a lot. Regardless, the absence of the real biomechanical is the most noticeable.
I read a couple of interviews with him last night from around the time of Prometheus' release and he was saying that he/they decided to making the Jockey stuff much more mechanical and metallic looking. He was talking about how they had to backwards engineer everything so that it could eventually evolve into what we see in Alien. So I'm guessing the black goo is somewhat responsible for ship we see in the original movie......
This. Im fairly certain this is said outright during that 4-hour documentary. I also got the idea that the Goo is in some way responsible for the BIO-mechanical look. Which is how I came to the conclusion David would eventually try and find a way to use it on an Android or himself and possibly create the bio-mechanical Xenomorph as we see it in Alien.
Maybe Shaw is piloting the Derelict at the beginning, in the suit we see grow around the Engineer in Alien, and David infects the suit with the Goo and then shaw mutates and crashes onto LV426.
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 05, 2016, 06:10:53 PM
Quote from: tmjhur on Feb 05, 2016, 11:07:49 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 05, 2016, 08:10:21 AM
Quote from: tmjhur on Feb 05, 2016, 01:34:48 AM
He's not. He said so in a recent video interview, think it was with Collider.
I got the impression from what he said that he was given the boot.
Which pleases me so much.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Feb 05, 2016, 01:52:05 AM
The Juggernaut looked more like metal than the derelict. Of course the rest of the building was stone.
I was referring more to the interior but that still does have a metal appearance. I just notice the stone a lot. Regardless, the absence of the real biomechanical is the most noticeable.
I read a couple of interviews with him last night from around the time of Prometheus' release and he was saying that he/they decided to making the Jockey stuff much more mechanical and metallic looking. He was talking about how they had to backwards engineer everything so that it could eventually evolve into what we see in Alien. So I'm guessing the black goo is somewhat responsible for ship we see in the original movie......
This. Im fairly certain this is said outright during that 4-hour documentary. I also got the idea that the Goo is in some way responsible for the BIO-mechanical look. Which is how I came to the conclusion David would eventually try and find a way to use it on an Android or himself and possibly create the bio-mechanical Xenomorph as we see it in Alien.
Maybe Shaw is piloting the Derelict at the beginning, in the suit we see grow around the Engineer in Alien, and David infects the suit with the Goo and then shaw mutates and crashes onto LV426.
I like this idea with the goo, but it would have to be yet another retcon, because
Alien implies the Lv-426 Jockey has been dead there forever - long before the events of
Prometheus.
cool idea!
Quote from: PsyKore on Feb 07, 2016, 09:14:59 AM
I like this idea with the goo, but it would have to be yet another retcon, because Alien implies the Lv-426 Jockey has been dead there forever - long before the events of Prometheus.
I'm not sure it has to be a retcon. Many of us like to think the derelict has been there forever. We also like the Lovecraftian aspect of O'Bannon's original script. But that's out the window. So, the derelict was apparently a sort of living ship. We don't know how long the it would take to decay on the planet. LV426 has a harsh, possibly corrosive atmosphere. The egg chamber seems far better protected than the pilot's chamber, and the derelict looks more biological in nature than the Juggernauts from Prometheus. Maybe Black Goo did that, maybe not. But perhaps the derelict would not survive for any great length of time there. The ship has earthquake damage in Aliens. Seems likely earthquakes are common. Erosion would be a problem. And the derelict probably has bacteria or microbes to help it function while it's alive. When it dies, they may well eat the ship. Between the planet and the ship's chemistry, it's likely the ship ages more quickly than we think. After a time, its possible the entire thing would collapse. Maybe no retcon.
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Feb 07, 2016, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: PsyKore on Feb 07, 2016, 09:14:59 AM
I like this idea with the goo, but it would have to be yet another retcon, because Alien implies the Lv-426 Jockey has been dead there forever - long before the events of Prometheus.
I'm not sure it has to be a retcon. Many of us like to think the derelict has been there forever. We also like the Lovecraftian aspect of O'Bannon's original script. But that's out the window. So, the derelict was apparently a sort of living ship. We don't know how long the it would take to decay on the planet. LV426 has a harsh, possibly corrosive atmosphere. The egg chamber seems far better protected than the pilot's chamber, and the derelict looks more biological in nature than the Juggernauts from Prometheus. Maybe Black Goo did that, maybe not. But perhaps the derelict would not survive for any great length of time there. The ship has earthquake damage in Aliens. Seems likely earthquakes are common. Erosion would be a problem. And the derelict probably has bacteria or microbes to help it function while it's alive. When it dies, they may well eat the ship. Between the planet and the ship's chemistry, it's likely the ship ages more quickly than we think. After a time, its possible the entire thing would collapse. Maybe no retcon.
I agree with this. In terms of RETCONs this is explainable to me. Especially concerning what has been said in ALIEN regarding the DERELICT, people have ignored all kinds of details in assuming the crew of the NOSTROMO just didn't know what they were seeing in there. For example: Kane clearly states the Egg Silo is a 'CAVE' but almost no one considers it one.
Its fine.
In the case of Alien chemistry interacting with metal, I mean, that isn't understandable whatsoever, so why should it be strange to say 'The climate on the planet in addition to the chemical changes with the Goo are why the Derelict appears fossilized?
Also, I already got the impression that they said FOSSILIZED, BECAUSE they can't understand its an exoskeleton. Right? In which case, that has already been retcon-ed or explained away by misunderstanding, based on human error, and making observations before they encountered the living version of the alien.
I think it's all pretty convenient, but that doesn't make it palatable. I'm not really against it, but at the same time I prefer the original ship to not be linked with the events of Prometheus. I especially would die a little inside if the original Jockey turned out to be Shaw.
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 07, 2016, 10:11:00 PM
Cain clearly states the Egg Silo is a 'CAVE' but almost no one considers it one.
I wouldn't say no one considers it; it's been debated about. IMO, it's obviously not part of the ship - it's far too large.
Quote from: PsyKore on Feb 08, 2016, 02:24:38 AM
I think it's all pretty convenient, but that doesn't make it palatable. I'm not really against it, but at the same time I prefer the original ship to not be linked with the events of Prometheus. I especially would die a little inside if the original Jockey turned out to be Shaw.
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 07, 2016, 10:11:00 PM
Cain clearly states the Egg Silo is a 'CAVE' but almost no one considers it one.
I wouldn't say no one considers it; it's been debated about. IMO, it's obviously not part of the ship - it's far too large.
This was always my argument. I just mean to show that what a character says is sometimes blown out of proportion by fans. In Alien, they are Space-Truckers. They dont know what the hell they are encountering in that ship, so they say this or that... I see no reason it should all be taken as gospel.
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 05, 2016, 06:10:53 PM
Im fairly certain this is said outright during that 4-hour documentary. I also got the idea that the Goo is in some way responsible for the BIO-mechanical look. Which is how I came to the conclusion David would eventually try and find a way to use it on an Android or himself and possibly create the bio-mechanical Xenomorph as we see it in Alien.
Do you have any specific links to refresh my memory? I'm actually rewatching Furious Gods again and it's quite interesting to pick up on the various nuggets I'd forgotten.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 08, 2016, 08:29:26 AM
I'm actually rewatching Furious Gods again and it's quite interesting to pick up on the various nuggets I'd forgotten.
Any news on whether de Lauzirika will be documenting the making of Alien: Covenant?
I think you mentioned a while back that he thought it was unlikely that he'll docu Blomkamp's Alien. Though I imagine Alien: Covenant would surely be more likely with his old boss directing?
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Feb 08, 2016, 02:42:23 PM
Any news on whether de Lauzirika will be documenting the making of Alien: Covenant?
I've not spoken to him since then. I'll try and catch up with him sometime soon. I certainly hope he is returning. It just wouldn't be an Alien release without him behind it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 08, 2016, 03:06:36 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Feb 08, 2016, 02:42:23 PM
Any news on whether de Lauzirika will be documenting the making of Alien: Covenant?
I've not spoken to him since then. I'll try and catch up with him sometime soon. I certainly hope he is returning. It just wouldn't be an Alien release without him behind it.
The documentary that goes with the Alien DVD is probably the best one I've ever seen. Dangerous Days:The Making of Blade Runner is a close second.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 08, 2016, 08:29:26 AM
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 05, 2016, 06:10:53 PM
Im fairly certain this is said outright during that 4-hour documentary. I also got the idea that the Goo is in some way responsible for the BIO-mechanical look. Which is how I came to the conclusion David would eventually try and find a way to use it on an Android or himself and possibly create the bio-mechanical Xenomorph as we see it in Alien.
Do you have any specific links to refresh my memory? I'm actually rewatching Furious Gods again and it's quite interesting to pick up on the various nuggets I'd forgotten.
Im in a car at the moment. But I have a visual memory of maybe Arthurax stating (to paraphrase) 'The idea was to specifically move away from the organic look of Alien and make it mechanical." He goes on to say that "The more they tried the more they ended up realizing they had to embrace the Giger designs..." I wish I could remember off hand where this comes from but its been a while now since Prometheus came out and I was wrapped up in that.
Quote from: PsyKore on Feb 08, 2016, 02:24:38 AM
I think it's all pretty convenient, but that doesn't make it palatable. I'm not really against it, but at the same time I prefer the original ship to not be linked with the events of Prometheus. I especially would die a little inside if the original Jockey turned out to be Shaw.
You must prepare yourself for this possibility. The bigger problem is, whatever happens, I think the Alien universe will be a lot smaller as a result of these new movies. We're going to know exactly where the Alien came from, and there's a good chance an android from earth created it. I'd like to think that's not it. I'd like to think Shaw won't be in the derelict. But I think both of those things are exactly what we're getting. It utterly destroys the mystery and wonder of the original movie. It makes things in that universe seem banal and uninteresting. It could be that any explanation would do that, but the possibilities that present themselves in what we've seen so far (eg Prometheus and Scott's statements about Covenant) seem especially egregious.
It all makes the idea that the derelict was launched over 2100 years ago to eradicate humanity because the Romans crucified an Engineer envoy far more interesting by contrast. But really, the Alien should be something more interesting. Maybe they're a result of differences between Engineers and their masters, maybe part of a war between groups of Engineers or even a conflict between the Engineers and the Predators. It should be something! But I guess not. Oh well. We'll find out when the movie finally arrives.
Herein lies the danger of finding out the truth about the origin of everything in the Alien universe. It may well ruin the rest of the movies for you. To be a success, i think the movie just has to open more doors with their own mysteries.
Personally, I'm more excited about Blomkamp's film.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Feb 09, 2016, 08:49:07 PM
Herein lies the danger of finding out the truth about the origin of everything in the Alien universe. It may well ruin the rest of the movies for you. To be a success, i think the movie just has to open more doors with their own mysteries.
Personally, I'm more excited about Blomkamp's film.
You know what? I don't care who disagrees. To be a success they need to wrap up Ripley's storyline in a way that doesn't mess things up more.
Then people will accept more.
I actually disagree that telling us where the Alien comes from is the big mistake. The big mistake is the whole series needs to be wrangled together. The big mistake is not writing a story that makes sense.
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 09, 2016, 09:54:40 PM
You know what? I don't care who disagrees. To be a success they need to wrap up Ripley's storyline in a way that doesn't mess things up more.
Then people will accept more.
I actually disagree that telling us where the Alien comes from is the big mistake. The big mistake is the whole series needs to be wrangled together. The big mistake is not writing a story that makes sense.
For what to be a success? Blomkamp's movie? That would be much stronger if he wrote a story after Alien 3 with fresh characters. His ideas can still work, but Ripley, Hicks and Newt all died in Alien 3. That's wrapped up! Ripley has a clone living in the future, but that doesn't really change anything. That's 200 years later.
You might expect too much, asking for stories to make sense. The request is reasonable, but it doesn't seem to happen very often.
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Feb 09, 2016, 10:16:41 PM
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 09, 2016, 09:54:40 PM
You know what? I don't care who disagrees. To be a success they need to wrap up Ripley's storyline in a way that doesn't mess things up more.
Then people will accept more.
I actually disagree that telling us where the Alien comes from is the big mistake. The big mistake is the whole series needs to be wrangled together. The big mistake is not writing a story that makes sense.
For what to be a success? Blomkamp's movie? That would be much stronger if he wrote a story after Alien 3 with fresh characters. His ideas can still work, but Ripley, Hicks and Newt all died in Alien 3. That's wrapped up! Ripley has a clone living in the future, but that doesn't really change anything. That's 200 years later.
You might expect too much, asking for stories to make sense. The request is reasonable, but it doesn't seem to happen very often.
Nah, we should retcon Alien 3. It's a great film as an alternative story, but a better one should have been made. It's kind of like Deadpool in the Wolverine: Origins movie vs. the new Deadpool movie. Yes the tale of Deadpool was told already, but a probably better one is about to unfold. Alien 3 has to go. I mean you can still keep your copy, don't get me wrong, but it should be decanonized.
Nah, we should retcon 'ALIENS'. It's a great film as an alternative story, but a better one should have been made. It's kind of like Deadpool in the Wolverine: Origins movie vs. the new Deadpool movie. Yes the tale of Deadpool was told already, but a probably better one is about to unfold. 'ALIENS' has to go. I mean you can still keep your copy, don't get me wrong, but it should be decanonized.
:laugh:
-Windebieste.
Remake ALIEN with the sexes and races switched. Parker is white and everyone else is black. Ripley is a man and everyone else is female. Kane births a queen and before you know it facehuggers are crawling around the nostomo. Badaboom stuff rights itself, give me my millions :laugh:
Quote from: windebieste on Feb 10, 2016, 03:05:09 AM
Nah, we should retcon 'ALIENS'. It's a great film as an alternative story, but a better one should have been made. It's kind of like Deadpool in the Wolverine: Origins movie vs. the new Deadpool movie. Yes the tale of Deadpool was told already, but a probably better one is about to unfold. 'ALIENS' has to go. I mean you can still keep your copy, don't get me wrong, but it should be decanonized.
:laugh:
-Windebieste.
LOL :laugh: Seriously though LOL.
But in all seriousness, you can't compare Aliens to Alien 3. Its a diamonds and oranges comparison. The franchise hinges on Alien and Aliens. Everything else is just trying in vain to live up to those standards.
Honestly, I don't think anything should be retconned. Retcon is bad.
If the writers can't come up with another story in this series without the continuous need to step on the toes of predecessors*, then it's really just become a big joke at that point.
Fresh stories and new characters without shooting itself in the foot is what the series needs. If Shaw doesn't reappear, I've got no problem with that. It's not the first time characters have disappeared and their narrative abruptly concluded before their tale has ended. I'd like to see her return, though. Maybe in the 2nd or 3rd installments of this new trilogy, if it's going to happen at all.
...and no. Not as the big revelation that that's her, the pilot inside the derelict ship on Acheron. That is so facepalm worthy. lol.
-Windebieste.
*It's bad enough we are stuck with the deaths of Newt, Ripley and Hicks; but attempting to undo that now is no guarantee of success.
Quote from: windebieste on Feb 10, 2016, 04:22:45 AM
...and no. Not as the big revelation that that's her, the pilot inside the derelict ship on Acheron. That is so facepalm worthy. lol.
It'll actually be Ridley Scott. He'll pop the mask off, point at the camera and wink.
Quote from: windebieste on Feb 10, 2016, 04:22:45 AM
Honestly, I don't think anything should be retconned. Retcon is bad.
If the writers can't come up with another story in this series without the continuous need to step on the toes of predecessors*, then it's really just become a big joke at that point.
Fresh stories and new characters without shooting itself in the foot is what the series needs. If Shaw doesn't reappear, I've got no problem with that. It's not the first time characters have disappeared and their narrative abruptly concluded before their tale has ended. I'd like to see her return, though. Maybe in the 2nd or 3rd installments of this new trilogy, if it's going to happen at all.
...and no. Not as the big revelation that that's her, the pilot inside the derelict ship on Acheron. That is so facepalm worthy. lol.
-Windebieste.
*It's bad enough we are stuck with the deaths of Newt, Ripley and Hicks; but attempting to undo that now is no guarantee of success.
The point is that it really is a sort of a joke. The key here is that all Alien sequels were not pre-meditated at the time Alien was written. It all happened organically, with no manifest destiny. It is not like changing some of the films alters the grand masterplan. This isn't Star Wars, where the first 6 films literally had to be what they are. In the case of the Alien series, I think it should be ok to step back, look at the big picture and judge where the film series went sideways. I think it will be glaringly obvious that this was at the moment of Alien 3. I am totally for a different story being told. Sure it could fail, but it cold also succeed. That goes for every film. Depending on the reception, Fox can then make a decision as to which sequel to Aliens is canon. My money would be on Blomkammp's film over David Fincher's...
And back on topic. I am really curious about what happened to Shaw. I can't believe this "no Noomi Rapace" rumour caught so much traction. I guess it is because Ridley hasn't made any efforts to correct the situation.
A retcon would be stupid. Alien³ happened and it isn't a bad movie and after all these years I've stopped caring about how they offed Newt and Hicks. Just let it go people.
However just letting Shaw go would be just as stupid. I can't stand her but that doesn't mean she couldn't be the greatest villain of all time once this trilogy is done.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 10, 2016, 04:38:29 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Feb 10, 2016, 04:22:45 AM
...and no. Not as the big revelation that that's her, the pilot inside the derelict ship on Acheron. That is so facepalm worthy. lol.
It'll actually be Ridley Scott. He'll pop the mask off, point at the camera and wink.
My worst fear. :-X
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 10, 2016, 04:38:29 AMIt'll actually be Ridley Scott. He'll pop the mask off, point at the camera and wink.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/db/6f/c5/db6fc51b974b3f77c4e5f75718f399be.jpg)
Quote from: windebieste on Feb 10, 2016, 04:22:45 AMIf the writers can't come up with another story in this series without the continuous need to step on the toes of predecessors*, then it's really just become a big joke at that point.
This.
Quote from: windebieste on Feb 10, 2016, 04:22:45 AMIf the writers can't come up with another story in this series without the continuous need to step on the toes of predecessors*, then it's really just become a big joke at that point.
This.
[/quote]
This is all a work of fiction. It is also not pre-planned fiction, meaning that the story can go in any direction just like an improv act. In that sense, yes of course it is a joke. But it is a good one, and I for one would love to hear it told in different directions. Alien 3 is a fine film, but I would be happy to see a different tale told by another director.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 10, 2016, 08:33:27 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 10, 2016, 04:38:29 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Feb 10, 2016, 04:22:45 AM
...and no. Not as the big revelation that that's her, the pilot inside the derelict ship on Acheron. That is so facepalm worthy. lol.
It'll actually be Ridley Scott. He'll pop the mask off, point at the camera and wink.
My worst fear. :-X
Watch as it turns out to be a Predator. We'll finally solve the mystery behind that picture of the Space Jockey with the Plasma Caster on his shoulder. ;D
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Feb 10, 2016, 04:53:25 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 10, 2016, 08:33:27 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 10, 2016, 04:38:29 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Feb 10, 2016, 04:22:45 AM
...and no. Not as the big revelation that that's her, the pilot inside the derelict ship on Acheron. That is so facepalm worthy. lol.
It'll actually be Ridley Scott. He'll pop the mask off, point at the camera and wink.
My worst fear. :-X
Watch as it turns out to be a Predator. We'll finally solve the mystery behind that picture of the Space Jockey with the Plasma Caster on his shoulder. ;D
If its a Predator... I give up.
"And then we're gonna go, and this f*cker's gonna scare the sh*t out of ya. It's going to scare ya worse than the Space Tapir ever did.'
They just have to step back and write something that pulls it all together. This ISN'T NEARLY as difficult as everyone is making it out to be.
I love her, but Sigourney f**ked it up when she didn't want to do ALIEN 5 on Earth and yes, killing of Newt and Hicks was a mistake narratively. But neither one of those scenarios are unmanageable provided the writer steps back and FOX thinks through the next FEW sequels and not just the NEXT one.
That's the problem. That has been the problem from the get-go. And contrary to ALMOST EVERYONE'S belief - it's not really even remotely unsolvable. Especially with where the story is now and since they are proceeding with another prequel that can easily tie into what happens later.
There is no need for a retcon. They need to come up with an all encompassing story and having a HOMEWORLD-type planet tied into it is the step they were always missing. The other big picture, missing element which BLOMKAMP's film seems to want to explore is what the COMPANY will do with the Alien if they get it.
If you'd rather not step things up because you'd rather have Hicks back, that's just childish and it isn't whats best for the series. Neither is ignoring multiple sequels. You want to say their deaths are poor writing - ok. But fixing it by retconning just makes a bigger mess.
This should have nothing to do with retconning or Alien 3 at this point. That was 4 films ago. Going back there, to that space, just because you want to, is bizarre and ridiculous, IMO anyway.
They just need to step back. Look at what has happened, and ask "what do we need to do to pull it together?' And then just yarn it. It's really NOT difficult as people have led themselves to believe.
Quote from: Guan Thwei 1992 on Feb 10, 2016, 04:53:25 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 10, 2016, 08:33:27 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 10, 2016, 04:38:29 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Feb 10, 2016, 04:22:45 AM
...and no. Not as the big revelation that that's her, the pilot inside the derelict ship on Acheron. That is so facepalm worthy. lol.
It'll actually be Ridley Scott. He'll pop the mask off, point at the camera and wink.
My worst fear. :-X
Watch as it turns out to be a Predator. We'll finally solve the mystery behind that picture of the Space Jockey with the Plasma Caster on his shoulder. ;D
We got everyone good with that one! :P
So is this movie not going to be a direct sequel at all if none of the cast from the first movie is not going to be back?
Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Feb 13, 2016, 09:52:33 PM
So is this movie not going to be a direct sequel at all if none of the cast from the first movie is not going to be back?
David will be there, Shaw might be in cryo-sleep the entire time or she could leave to explore the Paradise Planet without David so she won't appear probably until the 3rd movie.
Whenever I see news about this movie and how it's derailing from the main characters, I only see a barrier to the film I really want to see: Blomkamp's
Quote from: Nanashi on Feb 25, 2016, 03:30:52 PM
Whenever I see news about this movie and how it's derailing from the main characters, I only see a barrier to the film I really want to see: Blomkamp's
I'm all for him directing an alien movie but I didn't like the direction he was going. No more Ripley, no retconning hicks back.
Quote from: 420Buddy on Feb 25, 2016, 04:33:19 PM
Quote from: Nanashi on Feb 25, 2016, 03:30:52 PM
Whenever I see news about this movie and how it's derailing from the main characters, I only see a barrier to the film I really want to see: Blomkamp's
I'm all for him directing an alien movie but I didn't like the direction he was going. No more Ripley, no retconning hicks back.
I say go for it. The Deapool retcon worked extremely well.
Still 'shocked' why she isnt in this... i mean seriously? they add David but not shaw? 0_o
They better EXPLAIN this one.
Quote from: x-M-x on Apr 22, 2016, 08:21:45 AM
Still 'shocked' why she isnt in this... i mean seriously? they add David but not shaw? 0_o
They better EXPLAIN this one.
Well they are either Luke Skywalkering her up, making her absense a main plot point (The Covenant crew realise David is lying to them) or else they are simply cutting out ALL the weak point of the original movie and keeping the only consistently strong one (David).
Quote from: 420Buddy on Feb 25, 2016, 04:33:19 PM
Quote from: Nanashi on Feb 25, 2016, 03:30:52 PM
Whenever I see news about this movie and how it's derailing from the main characters, I only see a barrier to the film I really want to see: Blomkamp's
I'm all for him directing an alien movie but I didn't like the direction he was going. No more Ripley, no retconning hicks back.
Amen to that.
She and her lame spacecraft are blown out of their trajectory into an orbit which freezes her life-support systems, and returns Noomi Rapace to Earth, 500 years later....