when I saw wolf and chet fightin I was kind of mad because wolf was being tossed around like a ragdoll he barely got any hits off her.
Quote from: gangstapred on Feb 18, 2008, 02:17:09 AM
when I saw wolf and chet fightin I was kind of mad because wolf was being tossed around like a ragdoll he barely got any hits off her.
I thought it was realistic. I would have prefered chet to "claw" wolf instead of punch him into submission though. But I really enjoyed the fight scene.
^Agreed. It really doesn't make sense for an Alien to rassle an opponent. Chet should have been all teeth 'n claws, not just pushing Wolf around like a schoolyard bully.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 18, 2008, 02:23:51 AM
^Agreed. It really doesn't make sense for an Alien to rassle an opponent. Chet should have been all teeth 'n claws, not just pushing Wolf around like a schoolyard bully.
Although I think Chet did bite wolf on the shoulder which was nice. I can't remember any aliens biting anything with their primary mouth, if you could call it that.
a predalien would be to a predator what a normal alien is to a human. if anything wolf did too well against chet.
Quote from: gases on Feb 18, 2008, 02:24:40 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 18, 2008, 02:23:51 AM
^Agreed. It really doesn't make sense for an Alien to rassle an opponent. Chet should have been all teeth 'n claws, not just pushing Wolf around like a schoolyard bully.
Although I think Chet did bite wolf on the shoulder which was nice. I can't remember any aliens biting anything with their primary mouth, if you could call it that.
wow that was somethin we didnt expect to see
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 18, 2008, 02:30:14 AM
a predalien would be to a predator what a normal alien is to a human. if anything wolf did too well against chet.
Yeah but the way the aliens were dumbed down I was waiting to see one get killed by Dallas kicking it in the face.
^Deleted scene. ;)
Quote from: gangstapred on Feb 18, 2008, 02:17:09 AM
when I saw wolf and chet fightin I was kind of mad because wolf was being tossed around like a ragdoll he barely got any hits off her.
I actually liked it. It showed just how dangerous Chet was IMO. Like, finally, here's a creature that's actually tougher than the Predator.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 05:30:54 AM
Quote from: gangstapred on Feb 18, 2008, 02:17:09 AM
when I saw wolf and chet fightin I was kind of mad because wolf was being tossed around like a ragdoll he barely got any hits off her.
I actually liked it. It showed just how dangerous Chet was IMO. Like, finally, here's a creature that's actually tougher than the Predator.
But.....normal aliens ARE tougher then predators. They need their weapons, remember?
Quote from: Pvt. Hicks on Feb 18, 2008, 06:01:14 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 05:30:54 AM
Quote from: gangstapred on Feb 18, 2008, 02:17:09 AM
when I saw wolf and chet fightin I was kind of mad because wolf was being tossed around like a ragdoll he barely got any hits off her.
I actually liked it. It showed just how dangerous Chet was IMO. Like, finally, here's a creature that's actually tougher than the Predator.
But.....normal aliens ARE tougher then predators. They need their weapons, remember?
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
The fight, while short, was fantastic. The only part I found completely unrealistic was that for an "elite" predator, Wolf was disarmed of both his combistick & whip pathetically easily. It seemed like that part of the scene was a feeble excuse for him to lose all his weapons so he would take off his mask & turn the fight into a slugfest.
Quote from: Stalker on Feb 18, 2008, 06:18:52 AM
The fight, while short, was fantastic. The only part I found completely unrealistic was that for an "elite" predator, Wolf was disarmed of both his combistick & whip pathetically easily. It seemed like that part of the scene was a feeble excuse for him to lose all his weapons so he would take off his mask & turn the fight into a slugfest.
Even after that, he was still being slapped around. The only time he made a mark was when he ripped out Chet's tongue and drove his blades thru Chet's skull.
Good thing it was never established Wolf was an elite.
It was "established" only because he wiped the floor with every alien he came across...although really, that was in part to them hardly making a serious effort to attack him most of the time, not to mention his excessive use of the dual plasmacasters.
The predalien seemed to be the only xenomorph with a brain...it dodged nearly every single one of his attacks.
It's only really "established" if the Aliens act similarly to the way they have in previous films. If they didn't all you really established is they're pissweak this time round.
Quote from: SM on Feb 18, 2008, 06:39:08 AM
It's only really "established" if the Aliens act similarly to the way they have in previous films. If they didn't all you really established is they're pissweak this time round.
wolf just had a magical boundary around him that makes aliens into flailing schoool girls...
chet slings wolf around like a doll
Do any of the proper Aliens do that though?
Quote from: SM on Feb 18, 2008, 11:56:54 PM
Do any of the proper Aliens do that though?
But Chet is huge. And supposedly a young queen.
Quote from: SM on Feb 18, 2008, 11:56:54 PM
Do any of the proper Aliens do that though?
To answer your question, no. But technically they shouldn't be able to b/c they're the same size if not a little smaller than a Predator.
So in a way, Chet reaffirms that the Aliens are deadly sons of bitches.
Most people would agree that an unarmed Predator would have extreme difficulty taking on a single Alien, right?
And that's a human-born Alien. So any Predator-born Alien would wipe the floor with a Predator, no?
The Preds only really clean up when facing 'lesser' Aliens.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 19, 2008, 12:08:49 AM
So in a way, Chet reaffirms that the Aliens are deadly sons of bitches.
Most people would agree that an unarmed Predator would have extreme difficulty taking on a single Alien, right?
And that's a human-born Alien. So any Predator-born Alien would wipe the floor with a Predator, no?
The Preds only really clean up when facing 'lesser' Aliens.
Yeah but Chet didn't wipe the floor with Wolf so he does not reaffirms they are deadly SOBs.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 19, 2008, 12:08:49 AM
So in a way, Chet reaffirms that the Aliens are deadly sons of bitches.
Most people would agree that an unarmed Predator would have extreme difficulty taking on a single Alien, right?
And that's a human-born Alien. So any Predator-born Alien would wipe the floor with a Predator, no?
The Preds only really clean up when facing 'lesser' Aliens.
Wolf was still armed when fighting the other aliens.
Even when he picks two up, he wouldn't have a clue what to do with them if not for his weapons.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 12:27:21 AM
Wolf was still armed when fighting the other aliens.
Even when he picks two up, he wouldn't have a clue what to do with them if not for his weapons.
Kinda what I was saying, dude.
QuoteTo answer your question, no. But technically they shouldn't be able to b/c they're the same size if not a little smaller than a Predator.
By that "logic" - there's no actual challenge to the 'manhood' ritual.
AvP says "No".
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2008, 12:45:42 AM
QuoteTo answer your question, no. But technically they shouldn't be able to b/c they're the same size if not a little smaller than a Predator.
By that "logic" - there's no actual challenge to the 'manhood' ritual.
AvP says "No".
A human with a shotgun can kill a tiger.
A teen with a knife can't.
If there's a point there, it was a tad too subtle.
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2008, 12:55:22 AM
If there's a point there, it was a tad too subtle.
In AVP-R, it isn't a challenge because Wolf is a veteran with a gun.
In AVP, we see teens who have no idea what they're doing and they have wristblades that melt.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
Quote from: Pvt. Hicks on Feb 18, 2008, 06:01:14 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 05:30:54 AM
Quote from: gangstapred on Feb 18, 2008, 02:17:09 AM
when I saw wolf and chet fightin I was kind of mad because wolf was being tossed around like a ragdoll he barely got any hits off her.
I actually liked it. It showed just how dangerous Chet was IMO. Like, finally, here's a creature that's actually tougher than the Predator.
But.....normal aliens ARE tougher then predators. They need their weapons, remember?
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
Umm, yyyyyyeah they are.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
depends on what your definition of toughness is.
aliens are much more durable then predators and are equally strong.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:05:23 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
depends on what your definition of toughness is.
aliens are much more durable then predators and are equally strong.
Yeah aliens are I guess tougher but I see toughness as being how much damage you can take so yeah durability... but I still don't want to say aliens and predators have equal strength because they are two very different creatures. They both generally use differing limbs to move and attack...
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:05:23 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
depends on what your definition of toughness is.
aliens are much more durable then predators and are equally strong.
I think in AVP-R, the aliens aren't there to fight. They kill some people for nourishment and capture for reproduction, and here comes this creature that exists to kill each and every one of them. The run at it, but it is no use. This thing is too well equipped. Chet, though, realises what a pred can do from the ship. And the sewer.
The aliens are a bit freaked out.
And they don't need to be killing. Or they think they don't. The one drooling on dallas for ten seconds was probably toying with him, and didn't think Dallas was going to blow him up. He stopped firing so it could reload, but the alien probably thought it was not going to shoot anymore.
Bear in mind the aliens are a day old.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:15:12 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:05:23 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
depends on what your definition of toughness is.
aliens are much more durable then predators and are equally strong.
I think in AVP-R, the aliens aren't there to fight. They kill some people for nourishment and capture for reproduction, and here comes this creature that exists to kill each and every one of them. The run at it, but it is no use. This thing is too well equipped. Chet, though, realises what a pred can do from the ship. And the sewer.
The aliens are a bit freaked out.
And they don't need to be killing. Or they think they don't. The one drooling on dallas for ten seconds was probably toying with him, and didn't think Dallas was going to blow him up. He stopped firing so it could reload, but the alien probably thought it was not going to shoot anymore.
Bear in mind the aliens are a day old.
but wouldnt you say that goes against how they were portaryed in the other movies? they are supposed to be "fast learners" remember.
in Alien it was a day old yet it still out manuvered dallas in the vents and in Aliens the queen grasps the concept of elevators immediatly.
The Resurrection Aliens were less than a day old.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:19:41 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:15:12 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:05:23 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
depends on what your definition of toughness is.
aliens are much more durable then predators and are equally strong.
I think in AVP-R, the aliens aren't there to fight. They kill some people for nourishment and capture for reproduction, and here comes this creature that exists to kill each and every one of them. The run at it, but it is no use. This thing is too well equipped. Chet, though, realises what a pred can do from the ship. And the sewer.
The aliens are a bit freaked out.
And they don't need to be killing. Or they think they don't. The one drooling on dallas for ten seconds was probably toying with him, and didn't think Dallas was going to blow him up. He stopped firing so it could reload, but the alien probably thought it was not going to shoot anymore.
Bear in mind the aliens are a day old.
but wouldnt you say that goes against how they were portaryed in the other movies? they are supposed to be "fast learners" remember.
in Alien it was a day old yet it still out manuvered dallas in the vents and in Aliens the queen grasps the concept of elevators immediatly.
Did Alien Dallas have a plasma caster?
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2008, 01:27:24 AM
The Resurrection Aliens were less than a day old.
They never showed the time in that film. Never said 1 day. I felt like it was at least a week.
no way they were a week old, the Betty crew was only there for a few days.
No. We see the Betty crew arrive early morning (local), offload the hosts, then by that night the Aliens are fully grown and subsequently escape. Why would Call wait a week to try and kill Ripley? She'd do it as soon as possible - meaning the first night they're on board, when most of the ship would be asleep.
Quote from: SM on Feb 19, 2008, 01:38:38 AM
No. We see the Betty crew arrive early morning (local), offload the hosts, then by that night the Aliens are fully grown and subsequently escape. Why would Call wait a week to try and kill Ripley? She'd do it as soon as possible - meaning the first night they're on board, when most of the ship would be asleep.
Did they specify a day where they meet her? Call only realizes where Ripley was in the basketball scene.
Call knew Ripley was on the Auriga long before the Betty arrived - or she even hooked up with Elgyn and co.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:33:03 AM
Did Alien Dallas have a plasma caster?
he could have had two plasma casters, it wouldnt have mattered. the alien totally flanked him.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:46:55 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:33:03 AM
Did Alien Dallas have a plasma caster?
he could have had two plasma casters, it wouldnt have mattered. the alien totally flanked him.
Do you know why? He wasn't in an open space with a weapon.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:46:55 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:33:03 AM
Did Alien Dallas have a plasma caster?
he could have had two plasma casters, it wouldnt have mattered. the alien totally flanked him.
Do you know why? He wasn't in an open space with a weapon.
well if you think about it the confinment works both ways. if the alien had been in front of dallas he could have flamed it and it wouldnt have had any room to dodge at all.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:58:42 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:46:55 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:33:03 AM
Did Alien Dallas have a plasma caster?
he could have had two plasma casters, it wouldnt have mattered. the alien totally flanked him.
Do you know why? He wasn't in an open space with a weapon.
well if you think about it the confinment works both ways. if the alien had been in front of dallas he could have flamed it and it wouldnt have had any room to dodge at all.
And don't forget, Wolf in the sewer had that map thing.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 02:00:54 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:58:42 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:46:55 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:33:03 AM
Did Alien Dallas have a plasma caster?
he could have had two plasma casters, it wouldnt have mattered. the alien totally flanked him.
Do you know why? He wasn't in an open space with a weapon.
well if you think about it the confinment works both ways. if the alien had been in front of dallas he could have flamed it and it wouldnt have had any room to dodge at all.
And don't forget, Wolf in the sewer had that map thing.
i'm not arguing that scene. i'm just pointing out that the alien from Alien was smart enough to flank dallas so that he wouldnt be able to use the flamethrower...and it was less than a day old.
the avp-r aliens would have just noisily charged at him.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 02:23:08 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 02:00:54 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:58:42 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:46:55 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:33:03 AM
Did Alien Dallas have a plasma caster?
he could have had two plasma casters, it wouldnt have mattered. the alien totally flanked him.
Do you know why? He wasn't in an open space with a weapon.
well if you think about it the confinment works both ways. if the alien had been in front of dallas he could have flamed it and it wouldnt have had any room to dodge at all.
And don't forget, Wolf in the sewer had that map thing.
i'm not arguing that scene. i'm just pointing out that the alien from Alien was smart enough to flank dallas so that he wouldnt be able to use the flamethrower...and it was less than a day old.
the avp-r aliens would have just noisily charged at him.
Ppl tend to forgetthe national guard scene... the aliens showed vast amounts of intelligence bytaking them out one at a time.
Yeah but are they displaying similar behaviour when attacking the Predator?
You barely even see the Aliens during the sequence.
They take out several soldiers before even being seen...that shows a considerable amount of intelligence & cunning.
The difference between these aliens & the ones in the other films is that these ones were actually being pursued by a powerful foe, they were forced to react against a formidable killer, instead of acting upon their discretion, as in the other films. They were ravaging the town, not concentrating on The Wolf. It shows how much differently they can react when they are the hunted, & not the hunters. The alien in the power plant scene demonstrated this, as it was aware of Wolf's presence before he noticed it, & easily snuck up on him & sent him flying through the air with a whip of its tail.
Admittedly, there were some scenes where the aliens could have severely injured or even killed Wolf, but didn't. Such as when he was holding two of them up by the throat...their tails could have easily pierced his chest from such a vulnerable position. That was mainly down to script immunity.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:05:23 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
depends on what your definition of toughness is.
aliens are much more durable then predators and are equally strong.
How do you figure?
QuoteIt shows how much differently they can react when they are the hunted, & not the hunters.
Apparently they turn into wussies.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 18, 2008, 06:25:53 AM
Good thing it was never established Wolf was an elite.
It was by degrading the aliens. However it was done.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 19, 2008, 05:04:18 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:05:23 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
depends on what your definition of toughness is.
aliens are much more durable then predators and are equally strong.
How do you figure?
do you have an example showing otherwise?
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 05:31:22 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 19, 2008, 05:04:18 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:05:23 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
depends on what your definition of toughness is.
aliens are much more durable then predators and are equally strong.
How do you figure?
do you have an example showing otherwise?
I asked you first.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 19, 2008, 06:12:29 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 05:31:22 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 19, 2008, 05:04:18 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:05:23 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
depends on what your definition of toughness is.
aliens are much more durable then predators and are equally strong.
How do you figure?
do you have an example showing otherwise?
I asked you first.
ok, lets see...we have alien3 where it gets covered in molten lead. i'd say that right there makes it tougher but lets continue.
in Alien it survives the vacuum of space.
in A:R they take liquid nitrogen to the face.
in AVP Grid was kicked and thrown into stone pillars...face first. yet was not affected.
in avp-r they get shot up by machine guns and survive... one even survives a hit by a plasma blast
after it had already suffered pistol and machine gun fire and its
still coming towards the chopper.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 06:20:44 AM
in Alien it survives the vacuum of space.
...with open wound.
also:
Aliens - their ribchest and head ricochets the bullets from pistols.
aliens are
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 06:20:44 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 19, 2008, 06:12:29 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 05:31:22 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 19, 2008, 05:04:18 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:05:23 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 18, 2008, 06:13:53 AM
I don't think an Alien is tougher than a Predator.
depends on what your definition of toughness is.
aliens are much more durable then predators and are equally strong.
How do you figure?
do you have an example showing otherwise?
I asked you first.
ok, lets see...we have alien3 where it gets covered in molten lead. i'd say that right there makes it tougher but lets continue.
in Alien it survives the vacuum of space.
in A:R they take liquid nitrogen to the face.
in AVP Grid was kicked and thrown into stone pillars...face first. yet was not affected.
in avp-r they get shot up by machine guns and survive... one even survives a hit by a plasma blast after it had already suffered pistol and machine gun fire and its still coming towards the chopper.
in Predator, it survived a full barrage of 7.67mm bullets from Mac's machinegun
in Predator, it was still alive after having a tree dropped on its head
in Predator 2, it also took liquid nitrogen to the head an body
in Predator 2, it had its arm cut off and was still standing tall
in Predator 2, it survived 10 direct hits from Harrigan's shotgun
in AvP, it got Grid's tail thru its arm and was still walking hard (yes I know the same thing happened to Ricky in AvP:R, but he could barely walk afterwards)
in AvP:R, it was knocked off a platform, fell something like 15-20 feet, had a spike go thru its leg, and still ran off
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 19, 2008, 03:15:53 PM
in Predator, it survived a full barrage of 7.67mm bullets from Mac's machinegun
well, first off it was only hit
once. in the leg. you make it sound as if it was riddled with bullets.
Quote
in Predator, it was still alive after having a tree dropped on its head
this is true, but it didnt look like the predator was going to survive from that injury.
Quotein Predator 2, it also took liquid nitrogen to the head an body
true, but it wasnt hit point blank like the alien in A:R was. but still its very impressive for the predator.
Quotein Predator 2, it had its arm cut off and was still standing tall
very impressive. although we have seen aliens lose limbs and continue fighting also.
Quotein Predator 2, it survived 10 direct hits from Harrigan's shotgun
it was not 10. some of the shots hit armor others missed. i believe the acurate hit count is 5-6 but i'm not 100% sure.
Quotein AvP, it got Grid's tail thru its arm and was still walking hard (yes I know the same thing happened to Ricky in AvP:R, but he could barely walk afterwards)
in AvP:R, it was knocked off a platform, fell something like 15-20 feet, had a spike go thru its leg, and still ran off
again very impressive. but i feel that the evidence shows that aliens are still more durable. if you look at the alien that was hit by the plasma blast after it had been shot by machine gun and pistol fire you can see that it was back in motion seconds after being shot. it then gets put down for good after the handgun unloads on its face.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 06:02:48 PM
it was not 10. some of the shots hit armor others missed. i believe the acurate hit count is 5-6 but i'm not 100% sure.
and he lost his consciousness because of pain
It wasn't just playin' possum?
Quote from: Master Chief on Feb 19, 2008, 07:44:26 PM
It wasn't just playin' possum?
and let harrigan take his mask off?
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 06:02:48 PMit was not 10. some of the shots hit armor others missed. i believe the acurate hit count is 5-6 but i'm not 100% sure.
It was 10. I counted it right before I made that post. Though I give you credit for your arguments, especially the last one about the alien surviving the plasma blast; that was a shocker TBH.
Quote from: vehtam on Feb 19, 2008, 08:31:15 PM
and let harrigan take his mask off?
Sure, why not. I think the Predator wanted Harrigan to get close enough so that it would be able to disarm him. Also, the Predator was conscious enough to finish Harrigan's sentence.
Quote from: Master Chief on Feb 19, 2008, 08:46:01 PM
Quote from: vehtam on Feb 19, 2008, 08:31:15 PM
and let harrigan take his mask off?
Sure, why not. I think the Predator wanted Harrigan to get close enough so that it would be able to disarm him. Also, the Predator was conscious enough to finish Harrigan's sentence.
but harrigan was close enough for 30 to 50 seconds :D
and, even my brother can do the same thing city hunter did. when i'm waking him up in the morning, he can easily finish 'wake up, wake up, you.." with "..lazy bastard", while being unconscious :D
Harrigan fires about nine times, only three of those are solid hits. The rest graze, hit armour, or mostly hit armour.
Quote from: vehtam on Feb 19, 2008, 08:50:41 PM
and, even my brother can do the same thing city hunter did. when i'm waking him up in the morning, he can easily finish 'wake up, wake up, you.." with "..lazy bastard", while being unconscious :D
You have an amazing brother!
Quote from: Master Chief on Feb 19, 2008, 09:05:41 PM
You have an amazing brother!
kinda predatorish he is, you're right :D, also he is 16 years old and is very tall 1m 90 cm + very skinny, so who knows, maybe predator of future movies? ;D
Quote from: Master Chief on Feb 19, 2008, 08:46:01 PM
Quote from: vehtam on Feb 19, 2008, 08:31:15 PM
and let harrigan take his mask off?
Sure, why not. I think the Predator wanted Harrigan to get close enough so that it would be able to disarm him. Also, the Predator was conscious enough to finish Harrigan's sentence.
In P2, it doesn't really need the mask. It has the respirator, and it sees blue for some reason.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 11:14:01 PM
Quote from: Master Chief on Feb 19, 2008, 08:46:01 PM
Quote from: vehtam on Feb 19, 2008, 08:31:15 PM
and let harrigan take his mask off?
Sure, why not. I think the Predator wanted Harrigan to get close enough so that it would be able to disarm him. Also, the Predator was conscious enough to finish Harrigan's sentence.
In P2, it doesn't really need the mask. It has the respirator, and it sees blue for some reason.
That was a production mistake... I am referring to the vision being blue.
Quote from: Dragon-Pred on Feb 19, 2008, 11:17:02 PM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 11:14:01 PM
Quote from: Master Chief on Feb 19, 2008, 08:46:01 PM
Quote from: vehtam on Feb 19, 2008, 08:31:15 PM
and let harrigan take his mask off?
Sure, why not. I think the Predator wanted Harrigan to get close enough so that it would be able to disarm him. Also, the Predator was conscious enough to finish Harrigan's sentence.
In P2, it doesn't really need the mask. It has the respirator, and it sees blue for some reason.
That was a production mistake... I am referring to the vision being blue.
I just thought it had to do with the area not being a burning summer in South America. It could have been cool at night.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: Dragon-Pred on Feb 19, 2008, 11:17:02 PM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 11:14:01 PM
Quote from: Master Chief on Feb 19, 2008, 08:46:01 PM
Quote from: vehtam on Feb 19, 2008, 08:31:15 PM
and let harrigan take his mask off?
Sure, why not. I think the Predator wanted Harrigan to get close enough so that it would be able to disarm him. Also, the Predator was conscious enough to finish Harrigan's sentence.
In P2, it doesn't really need the mask. It has the respirator, and it sees blue for some reason.
That was a production mistake... I am referring to the vision being blue.
I just thought it had to do with the area not being a burning summer in South America. It could have been cool at night.
I guess you could argue that because the only time I remeber seeing through pred vision was in the meat locker which i am sure was very cold.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 02:23:08 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 02:00:54 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:58:42 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:46:55 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:33:03 AM
Did Alien Dallas have a plasma caster?
he could have had two plasma casters, it wouldnt have mattered. the alien totally flanked him.
Do you know why? He wasn't in an open space with a weapon.
well if you think about it the confinment works both ways. if the alien had been in front of dallas he could have flamed it and it wouldnt have had any room to dodge at all.
And don't forget, Wolf in the sewer had that map thing.
i'm not arguing that scene. i'm just pointing out that the alien from Alien was smart enough to flank dallas so that he wouldnt be able to use the flamethrower...and it was less than a day old.
the avp-r aliens would have just noisily charged at him.
Thats not what the national guard scene says. That completely surpasses the ambush in aliens in my opinion.
Quotenational guard scene says. That completely surpasses the ambush in aliens in my opinion.
:-X yeah aliens that appear from thin air.... :-X
Quote from: gases on Feb 20, 2008, 06:20:14 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 02:23:08 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 02:00:54 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:58:42 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:46:55 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:33:03 AM
Did Alien Dallas have a plasma caster?
he could have had two plasma casters, it wouldnt have mattered. the alien totally flanked him.
Do you know why? He wasn't in an open space with a weapon.
well if you think about it the confinment works both ways. if the alien had been in front of dallas he could have flamed it and it wouldnt have had any room to dodge at all.
And don't forget, Wolf in the sewer had that map thing.
i'm not arguing that scene. i'm just pointing out that the alien from Alien was smart enough to flank dallas so that he wouldnt be able to use the flamethrower...and it was less than a day old.
the avp-r aliens would have just noisily charged at him.
Thats not what the national guard scene says. That completely surpasses the ambush in aliens in my opinion.
good point. its just too bad they never acted that way around the predator...
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 20, 2008, 06:57:06 AM
Quote from: gases on Feb 20, 2008, 06:20:14 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 02:23:08 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 02:00:54 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:58:42 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:46:55 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:33:03 AM
Did Alien Dallas have a plasma caster?
he could have had two plasma casters, it wouldnt have mattered. the alien totally flanked him.
Do you know why? He wasn't in an open space with a weapon.
well if you think about it the confinment works both ways. if the alien had been in front of dallas he could have flamed it and it wouldnt have had any room to dodge at all.
And don't forget, Wolf in the sewer had that map thing.
i'm not arguing that scene. i'm just pointing out that the alien from Alien was smart enough to flank dallas so that he wouldnt be able to use the flamethrower...and it was less than a day old.
the avp-r aliens would have just noisily charged at him.
Thats not what the national guard scene says. That completely surpasses the ambush in aliens in my opinion.
good point. its just too bad they never acted that way around the predator...
Well.. we wouldn't have a predator then! LOL
If we had more predators it would have been a lot better in evening the alien v predator action.
Stuck with one predator and trying to give fans lots of fights. Kind of funny.
thats why the movie wasnt equally even not enough predators
Quote from: gases on Feb 20, 2008, 09:59:39 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 20, 2008, 06:57:06 AM
Quote from: gases on Feb 20, 2008, 06:20:14 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 02:23:08 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 02:00:54 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:58:42 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:54:58 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 01:46:55 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 19, 2008, 01:33:03 AM
Did Alien Dallas have a plasma caster?
he could have had two plasma casters, it wouldnt have mattered. the alien totally flanked him.
Do you know why? He wasn't in an open space with a weapon.
well if you think about it the confinment works both ways. if the alien had been in front of dallas he could have flamed it and it wouldnt have had any room to dodge at all.
And don't forget, Wolf in the sewer had that map thing.
i'm not arguing that scene. i'm just pointing out that the alien from Alien was smart enough to flank dallas so that he wouldnt be able to use the flamethrower...and it was less than a day old.
the avp-r aliens would have just noisily charged at him.
Thats not what the national guard scene says. That completely surpasses the ambush in aliens in my opinion.
good point. its just too bad they never acted that way around the predator...
Well.. we wouldn't have a predator then! LOL
If we had more predators it would have been a lot better in evening the alien v predator action.
Stuck with one predator and trying to give fans lots of fights. Kind of funny.
Dude, the budget was $50 mil, there wasn't enough dough for more more Predators.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 01:25:27 AM
Dude, the budget was $50 mil, there wasn't enough dough for more more Predators.
Seriously, must the budget be brought up for every single scenario?
There was plenty of money to throw into a Chet-shaped hole, and there are already several Predators in the film, so that doesn't wash at all.
The lone Pred was a story choice, not a budget constraint.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 03:04:59 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 01:25:27 AM
Dude, the budget was $50 mil, there wasn't enough dough for more more Predators.
Seriously, must the budget be brought up for every single scenario?
There was plenty of money to throw into a Chet-shaped hole, and there are already several Predators in the film, so that doesn't wash at all.
The lone Pred was a story choice, not a budget constraint.
Adding in paying the cast and crew, plus putting the creature effects together I imagine wasn't cheap.
So? As Ants said, there were already a couple of Predators in it. You could keep masks on them so no need for expensive facial animatronics.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 03:04:59 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 01:25:27 AM
Dude, the budget was $50 mil, there wasn't enough dough for more more Predators.
Seriously, must the budget be brought up for every single scenario?
There was plenty of money to throw into a Chet-shaped hole, and there are already several Predators in the film, so that doesn't wash at all.
The lone Pred was a story choice, not a budget constraint.
In the script, there was a huge battle on the ship that wasn't filmed due to BUDGET.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 21, 2008, 04:36:36 AM
In the script, there was a huge battle on the ship that wasn't filmed due to BUDGET.
So what? In that same script, the main Predator was all on his lonesome, just as it was in every version of the script.
My point is still that the lone Predator scenario was by choice.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 04:51:42 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 21, 2008, 04:36:36 AM
In the script, there was a huge battle on the ship that wasn't filmed due to BUDGET.
So what? In that same script, the main Predator was all on his lonesome, just as it was in every version of the script.
My point is still that the lone Predator scenario was by choice.
I'm saying that even if they wanted to, they couldn't do more than 1.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 21, 2008, 04:53:34 AM
I'm saying that even if they wanted to, they couldn't do more than 1.
Sure they could. Just lose the PredAlien.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 05:13:33 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 21, 2008, 04:53:34 AM
I'm saying that even if they wanted to, they couldn't do more than 1.
Sure they could. Just lose the PredAlien.
Eh, I'd rather have the PA TBH. It's a solid opponent for a Predator.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:22:03 AM
Eh, I'd rather have the PA TBH. It's a solid opponent for a Predator.
I say lose the Aliens altogether, both regular and PredAlien. Plenty of moolah then.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 05:24:19 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:22:03 AM
Eh, I'd rather have the PA TBH. It's a solid opponent for a Predator.
I say lose the Aliens altogether, both regular and PredAlien. Plenty of moolah then.
Then it wouldn't be an AvP movie ???
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:26:37 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 05:24:19 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:22:03 AM
Eh, I'd rather have the PA TBH. It's a solid opponent for a Predator.
I say lose the Aliens altogether, both regular and PredAlien. Plenty of moolah then.
Then it wouldn't be an AvP movie ???
avp-r wasnt an avp movie anyway. it was predator 3 with aliens in it.
QuoteEh, I'd rather have the PA TBH. It's a solid opponent for a Predator.
its that kind of attitude the BS had while making avp-r that turned all the aliens into pathetic nothings. a normal alien is more then a match for a predator
perioda predalien is another story completely. that thing is to the predators what human born aliens are to humans.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:26:37 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 05:24:19 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:22:03 AM
Eh, I'd rather have the PA TBH. It's a solid opponent for a Predator.
I say lose the Aliens altogether, both regular and PredAlien. Plenty of moolah then.
Then it wouldn't be an AvP movie ???
and also wouldn't have sucked.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 21, 2008, 05:28:19 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:26:37 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 05:24:19 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:22:03 AM
Eh, I'd rather have the PA TBH. It's a solid opponent for a Predator.
I say lose the Aliens altogether, both regular and PredAlien. Plenty of moolah then.
Then it wouldn't be an AvP movie ???
avp-r wasnt an avp movie anyway. it was predator 3 with aliens in it.
QuoteEh, I'd rather have the PA TBH. It's a solid opponent for a Predator.
its that kind of attitude the BS had while making avp-r that turned all the aliens into pathetic nothings. a normal alien is more then a match for a predator period
a predalien is another story completely. that thing is to the predators what human born aliens are to humans.
You're right about an alien being a match for a Predator, but Chet is a step-up. Is that so wrong?
Quote from: Xhan on Feb 21, 2008, 05:41:56 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:26:37 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 05:24:19 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:22:03 AM
Eh, I'd rather have the PA TBH. It's a solid opponent for a Predator.
I say lose the Aliens altogether, both regular and PredAlien. Plenty of moolah then.
Then it wouldn't be an AvP movie ???
and also wouldn't have sucked.
I didn't think it sucked.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:49:13 AM
I didn't think it sucked.
You didn't? Meaning that now you do?
Way to go man, you've seen the light. ;)
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 05:52:26 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:49:13 AM
I didn't think it sucked.
You didn't? Meaning that now you do?
Way to go man, you've seen the light. ;)
If that makes you feel better.
doomrulz, what do you mean chet is a "set up"?
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 21, 2008, 05:55:44 AM
doomrulz, what do you mean chet is a "set up"?
I said step-up, meaning it's one level more powerful than an Alien.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:58:24 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 21, 2008, 05:55:44 AM
doomrulz, what do you mean chet is a "set up"?
I said step-up, meaning it's one level more powerful than an Alien.
oh...well dont you think its more then just a step up than a normal alien? do you think predators are a step up from humans? they are in a whole other league dont you think?
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 21, 2008, 06:01:57 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:58:24 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 21, 2008, 05:55:44 AM
doomrulz, what do you mean chet is a "set up"?
I said step-up, meaning it's one level more powerful than an Alien.
oh...well dont you think its more then just a step up than a normal alien? do you think predators are a step up from humans? they are in a whole other league dont you think?
Well obviously Chet is much, much more powerful than a regular Alien, I'm just using a common term.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:53:39 AM
If that makes you feel better.
I feel the same either way.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 06:10:09 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:53:39 AM
If that makes you feel better.
I feel the same either way.
LIES!
The budget was 40 million not 50 million. Keep claiming more could have been done. It's really funny, especially when they couldn't do the acid effects they wanted to do. Things they wanted to do = not being done, was mostly budget concern.
The script was probably made with 1 pred for a low budget.
Quote from: gases on Feb 21, 2008, 06:14:59 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 06:10:09 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:53:39 AM
If that makes you feel better.
I feel the same either way.
LIES!
The budget was 40 million not 50 million. Keep claiming more could have been done. It's really funny, especially when they couldn't do the acid effects they wanted to do. Things they wanted to do = not being done, was mostly budget concern.
The script was probably made with 1 pred for a low budget.
they should have cut out either the hive battle or the sewer battle and used the money to film the predalien killing the crew of the pred ship which was originally in the script but the BS changed it.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 21, 2008, 06:18:17 AM
Quote from: gases on Feb 21, 2008, 06:14:59 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 06:10:09 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 05:53:39 AM
If that makes you feel better.
I feel the same either way.
LIES!
The budget was 40 million not 50 million. Keep claiming more could have been done. It's really funny, especially when they couldn't do the acid effects they wanted to do. Things they wanted to do = not being done, was mostly budget concern.
The script was probably made with 1 pred for a low budget.
they should have cut out either the hive battle or the sewer battle and used the money to film the predalien killing the crew of the pred ship which was originally in the script but the BS changed it.
Yeah but no hive? That sucks. I would have loved to see the opening battle they wanted.
Quote from: gases on Feb 21, 2008, 06:20:56 AM
Yeah but no hive? That sucks.
What did the hive add to the film?
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 06:25:26 AM
Quote from: gases on Feb 21, 2008, 06:20:56 AM
Yeah but no hive? That sucks.
What did the hive add to the film?
The same reason the drums were added to the predator scenes.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 06:25:26 AM
Quote from: gases on Feb 21, 2008, 06:20:56 AM
Yeah but no hive? That sucks.
What did the hive add to the film?
Where else are the Aliens going to breed?
Quote from: gases on Feb 21, 2008, 06:43:31 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 06:25:26 AM
Quote from: gases on Feb 21, 2008, 06:20:56 AM
Yeah but no hive? That sucks.
What did the hive add to the film?
The same reason the drums were added to the predator scenes.
I said 'what' not 'why'.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 04:42:54 PM
Where else are the Aliens going to breed?
Everywhere. Since when do Aliens
need a hive to breed? It's especially unneeded, seeing as Chet just pukes insta-Aliens into women five-at-a-time.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 10:47:28 PM
Quote from: gases on Feb 21, 2008, 06:43:31 AM
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 21, 2008, 06:25:26 AM
Quote from: gases on Feb 21, 2008, 06:20:56 AM
Yeah but no hive? That sucks.
What did the hive add to the film?
The same reason the drums were added to the predator scenes.
I said 'what' not 'why'.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 21, 2008, 04:42:54 PM
Where else are the Aliens going to breed?
Everywhere. Since when do Aliens need a hive to breed? It's especially unneeded, seeing as Chet just pukes insta-Aliens into women five-at-a-time.
I'm sure the same thing could be said about the hive in
Aliens. It was just done for aesthetic reasons.
So back to the original topic....
I find these fan boy pissing contests so boring. Especially isn't it's mostly based assumptions being made by both sides. The only way that this "who's tougher than who" debate is seriously look at the evidence presented. This is important because we can't go and just have aliens and predators max out on the bench.
Both sides talk like both aliens and predators have super duper strength. Well neither of them are going to bench press a car or stop a speeding train with their bare hands.
So what do we know? Well lets watch the movies.
Lets look at the pre-AVP films first. The best show of both creatures strength is their ability to pick up people. In all cases, both creatures can pick up people with total ease and toss the around like ragdolls. Predator punches through walls (Predator 2). Aliens, after a bit of work, can hammer down a metal door (Alien: Resurrection).
We know that they're both heavier than people. Predators put big dents in the roof of cars. Aliens weigh beds to the floor (Alien 3, deleted scene).
In AVP. Alien picks up predator (with it's tail). Predator tosses alien.
I'm sure there are a few more examples, but seriously that's all we have to go on.
In my opinion, aliens and predators, in a slug fest, should be pretty evenly matched. It all comes down to instinct vs. strategy. That's the only reason that the Celtic Predator died. He hesitated. The alien didn't. That's it. Neither was actually stronger. The just have different methods of attack.
But that's your average everyday predator. Maybe Wolf is a whole lot tougher. But we wouldn't know that without Wolf duking it out with another predator. So who knows. (But I completely don't consider AVP-R cannon, but that's just me personally)
But I do believe that predalien should have been weaker than Predator. And considering the fact that it was a young queen and it came out of a predator I think it should have been plenty of tough. And it was. And I liked the fact that it threw punches. And I think this happened because the creators of the story were implying that aliens acquire more than just physical characteristics from their hosts. (Again, not necessarily cannon, though this is suggested in Alien: Resurrection because Ripley could only have gotten her memories back via the queen).
So that's my view on the topic.
Aww, you were doing so well, too...until that "the PredAlien punches because of its host" remark.
well that was just me theorizing... that doesn't mean the rest isn't accurate. And I'm sorry I presented a radical idea... I know talking about things that weren't specifically mentioned in the movie Aliens ruffles people's feathers.
Anyway, all that aside. Not theorizing here. Given the evidence presented, your average predator and your average drone are going to be equally strong. In my opinion.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 22, 2008, 12:19:17 AM
well that was just me theorizing... that doesn't mean the rest isn't accurate. And I'm sorry I presented a radical idea... I know talking about things that weren't specifically mentioned in the movie Aliens ruffles people's feathers.
Anyway, all that aside. Not theorizing here. Given the evidence presented, your average predator and your average drone are going to be equally strong. In my opinion.
You're right. But we weren't debating which is tougher, we were debating problems with the creature.
nchurch81, why do you think a predalien should be weaker than a pred? that doesnt make sense.
let this be a lesson to you all... when bitching in the forum... proof read your work before posting.
I probably meant "shouldn't have been weaker" and I wrote "should have been weaker". Sorry.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 22, 2008, 02:37:47 AMlet this be a lesson to you all... when bitching in the forum... proof read your work before posting.
Specifically?
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 22, 2008, 02:37:47 AM
let this be a lesson to you all... when bitching in the forum... proof read your work before posting.
I probably meant "shouldn't have been weaker" and I wrote "should have been weaker". Sorry.
oh ok, thats what i thought but i just wanted to make sure.
In story terms, the hive was supposed to show that the characters have entered the belly of the beast. To show that this is serious, and to be a metaphor to a cancerous growth.
suppose to be scary
Supposed to be a lot of things, turned out to be nothing.
well it wuz kinda scary wit a scene in da sewer wit dem old people
The hve was a joke in this mvie, in aliens you had the feeling they were in the heart of the infestation, in avp-r you saw a few glimpses of it and thats all...
Quote from: Cloverfield Monster on Feb 23, 2008, 05:18:40 AM
The hve was a joke in this mvie, in aliens you had the feeling they were in the heart of the infestation, in avp-r you saw a few glimpses of it and thats all...
I was under the impression that nearly half a hospital wing had been infested. That seems pretty severe to me. Not as much as Aliens yes, but still.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 23, 2008, 05:20:00 AM
Quote from: Cloverfield Monster on Feb 23, 2008, 05:18:40 AM
The hve was a joke in this mvie, in aliens you had the feeling they were in the heart of the infestation, in avp-r you saw a few glimpses of it and thats all...
I was under the impression that nearly half a hospital wing had been infested. That seems pretty severe to me. Not as much as Aliens yes, but still.
In aliens cameron used different camera angles to make you feel like your there and in trouble, in this it felt like a quick jog through the hive up to the roof...
Quote from: Cloverfield Monster on Feb 23, 2008, 05:22:10 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 23, 2008, 05:20:00 AM
Quote from: Cloverfield Monster on Feb 23, 2008, 05:18:40 AM
The hve was a joke in this mvie, in aliens you had the feeling they were in the heart of the infestation, in avp-r you saw a few glimpses of it and thats all...
I was under the impression that nearly half a hospital wing had been infested. That seems pretty severe to me. Not as much as Aliens yes, but still.
In aliens cameron used different camera angles to make you feel like your there and in trouble, in this it felt like a quick jog through the hive up to the roof...
Well this film was certainly no Aliens. Aliens had a bigger budget and was much grander in scope. Unfortunately this film should've been even more grander since we've got both creatures but...oh well.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 23, 2008, 05:26:13 AM
Aliens had a bigger budget
About the same budget, adjusting for inflation. 18 million in 1986 - 34 and a bit million in 2007.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 23, 2008, 05:57:06 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 23, 2008, 05:26:13 AM
Aliens had a bigger budget
About the same budget, adjusting for inflation. 18 million in 1986 - 34 and a bit million in 2007.
I doubt things were as expensive then. Predator was made on what, $50 million I believe and the executive producer said in the Collector's Edition DVD interview "That's not a lot of $$ b/c these days if you can make an action movie with $10 million you've done a good job."
Predator was made for the same amount as Aliens.
Even back in 1986, 18 million for what Aliens had in it was considered cheap; they just spent wisely.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 23, 2008, 06:09:35 AM
Predator was made for the same amount as Aliens.
Even back in 1986, 18 million for what Aliens had in it was considered cheap; they just spent wisely.
James Cameron knew how to spend it, and they used models and such. James Cameron is a genius in every sense of the word, what can I say.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 23, 2008, 06:09:35 AM
Predator was made for the same amount as Aliens.
Even back in 1986, 18 million for what Aliens had in it was considered cheap; they just spent wisely.
You're right about Predator's budget, sorry for the mistake. But I wasn't referring to just the special FX. For all I know, it may cost more to pay the cast and crew now than it did back then.
Regardless of inflation or costs, Aliens was still made on a small budget. It was not a "Let's spend up big" situation. Jimmy knows how to get bang for his buck, just as much as he also knows how to go wildly over-budget. ;)
The cast in AVPR were relatively unknown; they don't command large paychecks.
Colin pointed out crews are more expensive these days. Which is true.
But he also said the sets of Alien, today, would cost 20 million, which is bullcrap.
Even back in 1979 those sets were built relatively cheaply, because they went out and tore the guts out of a bunch of disused aircraft carriers and the like and stuck it to the walls to get the detailing.
Look at the sets in AvP; massive, intricately designed things. The shot where they walk into the temple for the first time was entirely in camera, and that chamber was huge. They were much more detailed and grand than anything in the Alien movies before then, yet Anderson managed to get all the sets done for, he said, around 2 million because they built them in Prague.
If there's one thing Anderson is good at, it's making a little money go a long way and tricking you into thinking his movies cost twice as much as they did. After seeing Cloverfield, AvPR looks like it cost about half of what it actually did.
These movies really don't need massive budgets, they just need effective spending.
I liked the fight sceen, it was a fair fight in my book.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 23, 2008, 06:19:06 AM
The cast in AVPR were relatively unknown; they don't command large paychecks.
Colin pointed out crews are more expensive these days. Which is true.
But he also said the sets of Alien, today, would cost 20 million, which is bullcrap.
Even back in 1979 those sets were built relatively cheaply, because they went out and tore the guts out of a bunch of disused aircraft carriers and the like and stuck it to the walls to get the detailing.
Look at the sets in AvP; massive, intricately designed things. The shot where they walk into the temple for the first time was entirely in camera, and that chamber was huge. They were much more detailed and grand than anything in the Alien movies before then, yet Anderson managed to get all the sets done for, he said, around 2 million because they built them in Prague.
If there's one thing Anderson is good at, it's making a little money go a long way and tricking you into thinking his movies cost twice as much as they did. After seeing Cloverfield, AvPR looks like it cost about half of what it actually did.
These movies really don't need massive budgets, they just need effective spending.
AvP still sucked though.
Eh. At least it didn't look cheap.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 23, 2008, 06:19:06 AM
.
But he also said the sets of Alien, today, would cost 20 million, which is bullcrap.
yup aircraft parts from a scrapyard if i remember.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 23, 2008, 05:20:00 AM
Quote from: Cloverfield Monster on Feb 23, 2008, 05:18:40 AM
The hve was a joke in this mvie, in aliens you had the feeling they were in the heart of the infestation, in avp-r you saw a few glimpses of it and thats all...
I was under the impression that nearly half a hospital wing had been infested. That seems pretty severe to me. Not as much as Aliens yes, but still.
It felt like the aliens were going to start something. The hospital was going to be where Chet was going to molt into royalty.
i guess so
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 23, 2008, 11:55:11 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 23, 2008, 05:20:00 AM
Quote from: Cloverfield Monster on Feb 23, 2008, 05:18:40 AM
The hve was a joke in this mvie, in aliens you had the feeling they were in the heart of the infestation, in avp-r you saw a few glimpses of it and thats all...
I was under the impression that nearly half a hospital wing had been infested. That seems pretty severe to me. Not as much as Aliens yes, but still.
It felt like the aliens were going to start something. The hospital was going to be where Chet was going to molt into royalty.
BAd pacing would have made that not seem as good as it could be....
Except the hospital scenes were sort of dispersed in the film. The aliens were there while our heroes were still in a tank.
the aliens was kind of scary, tried to bring back that horror feeling
it was good, but i found that most of the time wolf and chet fought wolf was already fighting aliens and then chet attacked wolf from behind or when he wasnt looking and he only really attacked him with his tail.
and what was with the punching in the sewer when the old tramp lady came to the old men who had been face hugged an alien was going to kill her then the predalien comes out and punches it??? wtf!
Quote from: avpmad! on Feb 25, 2008, 04:35:42 PM
it was good, but i found that most of the time wolf and chet fought wolf was already fighting aliens and then chet attacked wolf from behind or when he wasnt looking and he only really attacked him with his tail.
and what was with the punching in the sewer when the old tramp lady came to the old men who had been face hugged an alien was going to kill her then the predalien comes out and punches it??? wtf!
It was Chet's way of saying excuse me ;)
Quote from: avpmad! on Feb 25, 2008, 04:35:42 PM
and what was with the punching in the sewer...an alien was going to kill her then the predalien comes out and punches it??? wtf!
Why kill a perfectly good host when it can implant embryos. She was a pretty good mom.
What i dont get, was the rape sceen, why even bother ley eggs in her stomic, when they came out that fast.
different reproduction, its mixed with a alien and predator.
Quote from: gangstapred on Feb 25, 2008, 06:35:02 PM
different reproduction, its mixed with a alien and predator.
gosh, imagine what would happen if we took the brother Strause's explanations for what was going on the movie as canon.
Why does Chet's reproduction method seem to bother everyone? I thought it was unique.
another thing i dont get either, why move the dead body 2 times in a row( im talking about moving scar) and if it was the same ship, why dident we see the eldar on the ship?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 25, 2008, 07:45:01 PM
Why does Chet's reproduction method seem to bother everyone? I thought it was unique.
Probably because it completely destroys the Alien lifecycle in addition to being completely f**king stupid.
Besides that. ;)
Quote from: Xhan on Feb 25, 2008, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 25, 2008, 07:45:01 PM
Why does Chet's reproduction method seem to bother everyone? I thought it was unique.
Probably because it completely destroys the Alien lifecycle in addition to being completely f**king stupid.
How was it stupid??
Because it's an incredibly cheesy B-movie idea that everyone thought was a pile of crap when someone thought it up for Alien 3.
This is the problem. The people in charge. Half the ideas of AvPR was shitcanned back in 1989 by Fox for being retarded, but now the ideas are suddenly the way to restart the franchise. Whee.
I'm going to have to disagree with everyone's resentment about the predaliens unique form of reproduction. First off, we only know a sliver about the aliens, because there's so much potential of integrating other interesting facets into the creatures of this franchise that simply haven't been explored yet.
I don't mind the the reproduction method because I see as like a young queens back up system. I think the strause brothers idea is dumb so I just ignore that. I think it's just an aspect of a queen we hadn't seen yet. Obviously from A3 a queen doesn't need an ovipositor to lay eggs (I'm guessing that's how that egg got there). I would assume that once chet had fully matured she would reproduce through more traditional means. So I didn't mind it.
The other possibility ties in with the "aliens as weapons" concept. I mean there are lots of possibilities, this is just one I"m putting forth. Anyway, lets assume that aliens are constantly adaptiing to being that they encounter. The adapt and evolve until they are able to overwhelm that population in question (humans, predators, space jockey's, etc.) Well these adaptations might remain locked into the aliens genetic code. Even if the alien moves on to host from a different group, those adaptations remain in their genetic make up. So when they re-encounter that species, they don't start from scratch. Those adaptations are once again brought to the surface. Chet maybe a product of a strain of aliens that had, at some point in its history, adapted extensively to Predators. And one of those adaptations was having the queen take the place of the facehugger, which allowed hives to be nomadic. This may have proven use since (not cannon but according to some books) the Predators themselves are essentially space nomads.
Just a thought.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 25, 2008, 10:22:34 PM
Obviously from A3 a queen doesn't need an ovipositor to lay eggs (I'm guessing that's how that egg got there).
So a Queen not only doesn't need her eggsac, but she can also lay an egg in a room that she's never been to? Maybe Queens have transporter technology built into their reproduction system...after all, we don't know much about them, so we can't say for sure that they don't.
Ok, I have no idea how the egg got on the Sulaco from Alien 3. But I stand by the fact, that as a constantly evolving body of fiction, we still haven't explored all potential aspects of the aliens... within the realm of reason.
I hope that clarifies my statement.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 25, 2008, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 25, 2008, 10:22:34 PM
Obviously from A3 a queen doesn't need an ovipositor to lay eggs (I'm guessing that's how that egg got there).
So a Queen not only doesn't need her eggsac, but she can also lay an egg in a room that she's never been to? Maybe Queens have transporter technology built into their reproduction system...after all, we don't know much about them, so we can't say for sure that they don't.
What do you mean lay an egg in a room she's never been to? Does the room have to have a familiar feeling? 'Oh this feels like home to me, good place to breed." ???
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 25, 2008, 10:35:39 PM
What do you mean lay an egg in a room she's never been to?
The egg at the start of Alien 3 is in a room that the Queen never visited in Aliens. Hence, teleportation. Can't be disproven, so it must be true. Works for the PedAlien reproduction, so...
QuoteWhat do you mean lay an egg in a room she's never been to? Does the room have to have a familiar feeling? 'Oh this feels like home to me, good place to breed."
Watch the end of Aliens and the titles of Alien3 and play spot the difference.
QuoteObviously from A3 a queen doesn't need an ovipositor to lay eggs (I'm guessing that's how that egg got there).
Or she carried it up from the AP Station. So yes you are guessing and no it's not "obvious".
QuoteI don't mind the the reproduction method because I see as like a young queens back up system.
They already had a backup system, and the mindless twats f**ked it up.
Uncanny... is it upsetting you that I presented a new idea about this topic? I mean if you don't like it, I think that's fine because my ideas aren't cannon. It's just brainstorming. Playing pretend, if you will. If you would like to disagree with me that's fine. But I would prefer it if you simply presented alternative ideas, or possibly some creative criticism, instead of trying to knock me down with passive aggressive attacks and sarcasm.
Ants don't do "passive".
Well I guess.
Besides, I don't think my reasonings behind the new way the predalien reproduced was as out there as "teleportation." And yes I know what I said, and yes I do believe there should be certain limitations that just shouldn't be crossed. But that's part of the creative process. You go as extreme as you can go, and then you can pull it back to what works better. But again, I don't think my ideas were that outlandish.
If they've adapted beyond facehuggers - why do they need Queens to lay eggs that bear facehuggers at all? Why are they carrying around huggers on their ship (in fact whay are they doing that period)? Wouldn't it be simpler to just have a PredAlien (may it's name be forever cursed), and let it loose on the local populous then go hunt what it spawns?
No, when one gets loose they send in super badass Predator to wipe it out along with any evidence.
Quote from: SM on Feb 25, 2008, 11:10:17 PM
If they've adapted beyond facehuggers - why do they need Queens to lay eggs that bear facehuggers at all? Why are they carrying around huggers on their ship (in fact whay are they doing that period)? Wouldn't it be simpler to just have a PredAlien (may it's name be forever cursed), and let it loose on the local populous then go hunt what it spawns?
No, when one gets loose they send in super badass Predator to wipe it out along with any evidence.
A Queen can only create one egg sac befor elosing her abdomen
A Predalien can impregnate anyone it sees.Can easily overpower any other Alien race with drastic results.
In a way,Predators are like Wildlife Biologists,that actually hunt the animals.If a Predalien were to get loose on the predator homeworld,they'll say,"f**k THE REST.Get the Predalien"
Secondary cycles are secondary because they respond to abnormal situations.
Hermaphroditic worms can impregnate themselves, but they don't if they don't absolutely have to, because it's not as beneficial. Frogs don't change genders on a whim; only when there's an imbalance of one gender. One species of water-based animal has three reproductive methods - Sexual, asexual, and a form wherein they 'store' their young for better conditions.
The Queen growing a sack and churning out eggs is, as we've seen, the primary reproductive cycle. However, it is nowhere near as efficient or effective as the "secondary" cycle we've been presented; not only that, but the "secondary" cycle seems to be something any Alien can do so long as there's no Queen around.
So let's look at it like this:
Firstly, as a replacement for a Queen it's entirely unnecessary because egg morphing already does that. Queen moulting would work if there were no hosts around to make eggs into, but there were plenty of hosts around when Chet moulted. Woops!
Secondly, barfing 5 embryos directly into a host is much quicker and more prolific than the old egg-hugger-baby method, which only breeds a single organism over a 24 hour period. Given that Aliens drag hosts to the hive, the Queen could remain in the hive and just vomit some babies into host's mouths as they get shown to her. Or the hosts could be glued up and she could barf into them while they're there. Woops!
If anything, the 'primary' cycle actually feels much more like a secondary cycle than the new "back up" method presented by AvPR.
And for that reason it's a f**king huge load of horseshit.
Pardon my French.
In the "adaptation" theory I presented, I'm assuming that upon encountering a new species they should shed the adaptations acquired from hosting from a previous group. This doesn't make sense from an evolutionary standpoint... but as a weapon it makes a little more sense. It starts with a clean slate, because every species they encounter would require it's own set of traits that would allow the aliens to efficiently wipe them out. In this theory, for example, the predalien would continue to produce young orally, but once it laid a queen inside a human host, the next generation would revert back to a previous stationary hive state. And the predators certainly wouldn't want to let loose a Predalien queen because of the fact that the normal human born queens stay in one place and doesn't keep changing locations. Which ultimately would make it harder for the predators to hunt and maintain some amount of control.
The other "young queen" theory appeals to me a little more since it's just simpler. The queen can make a quick army of foot soldiers that can protect her as she forms into a full grown queen and begin construction of the hive. Once matured, she would would lay eggs. Eggs have a lot of benefits. They remain when all other aliens are gone. The oral reproduction is contingent on the queens presence. Secondly, they're more efficient, because essentially they allow the queen to be in more places at one time. And remaining centralized gives the queen a little more stability and control of a hive. If there is no center, the the hive becomes a free for all.
QuoteA Queen can only create one egg sac befor elosing her abdomen
???
QuoteThe other "young queen" theory appeals to me a little more since it's just simpler. The queen can make a quick army of foot soldiers that can protect her as she forms into a full grown queen and begin construction of the hive.
They could've made an army quite easily within the existing rules, without bowing to lowest common denominator/ attention span rubbish they - appropriately - vomited onto celluloid.
Again, you're ignoring the weeeeeell established fact that Aliens have a tendency to drag people away for impregnating. Queeny wouldn't have to go anywhere. And as I said, laying eggs would work as a secondary cycle to produce eggs which could impregnate people later, but given the alternate method makes little sense as a primary means of reproduction.
O'Bannon, Giler, Hill, Shusett, Cameron, Fincher, JPJ, Whedon - what the f**k were they thinking? They shoulda though of this much more efficient method YEARS ago...
I'm simply working with what is given us. I'm sure it will never end up in these films again and that's fine. (Though I doubt there will be anymore Aliens movies). I didn't mind it because I thought it was just something new. So to quell the fan base, we'll just pretend it didn't happen. Though, I suspect, that if this movie had been better made, and the Predalien actually looked like an alien, then fans wouldn't be quite so upset about it.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 25, 2008, 09:55:58 PM
Because it's an incredibly cheesy B-movie idea that everyone thought was a pile of crap when someone thought it up for Alien 3.
it's a combination of two ideas from the Vincent Ward/Fasano script, the fact that the alien was impregnating hosts with chestbursters by some method, and then at the end, and that idea followed Scott' attempt to get people to think that the alien infected Jones the cat with an alien. I liked the script description of the sheep alien. The impregnation by regurgitation appears to echo the scene from one version of the script that Ward's film where Ripley vomits an alien chestburster into the mouth of a willing monk so she can escape.
I think that maybe what Vincent Ward would have come up with as choices for alien creatures would almost have been fine enough (I like his films a lot), were it not for the fact that Gillis and Woodruff were there to make the aliens.
But the idea of of clusters of chestbursters, that came through the Gibson script and I didn't know how that could be done in a way that would make it interesting, and so the multiple stomach bursters didn't seem interesting to me.
It's best for me to re-imagine the whole movie with characters, different scenes and a different Predalien, and a completely different use made of the need to pay homage to Texas Chainsaw Massacre which is probably the only interesting fact about the movie
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 25, 2008, 11:52:54 PM
I'm simply working with what is given us. I'm sure it will never end up in these films again and that's fine. (Though I doubt there will be anymore Aliens movies). I didn't mind it because I thought it was just something new. So to quell the fan base, we'll just pretend it didn't happen. Though, I suspect, that if this movie had been better made, and the Predalien actually looked like an alien, then fans wouldn't be quite so upset about it.
This may or may not be directed at me. I'm saying that both methods have advantages and disadvantages. Both are essentially inefficient (thank you SM). But we also haven't seen hives on grand scales. Maybe there are roving mobs of facehuggers patrolling the landscape. Or the drones can set the eggs in other areas. Then again we could just focus on the general nature of the beast. it seems to be established that the queen is an egg factory for the better part of her existence. That's just how it is. Saying, that another method of reproduction would be more efficient would be like telling a pregnant mom that it would have made more sense for her to lay an egg. It's just not going to happen because that's just not how it is. There are lizard that asexually reproduce. No need for all that clumsy sex. Seems more efficient. But in general those lizards, more often than not, mate and reproduce rather than immaculately concieve. It's jut how and what they are.
And if you don't like that, well then we can move on to the "alien as weapon" theory where that's a specific trait that aliens developed millennia (sp?) ago to combat the predators, and we see it resurface because this alien came from a predator.
I'm not married to either idea. Because that's all it is. Just an idea.
QuoteMaybe there are roving mobs of facehuggers patrolling the landscape.
So why was Newt still alive?
QuoteThis may or may not be directed at me.
You directed your own post at you?
As an egg layer, the huggers can do the impregnating work, while the queen could spend her time making more eggs.
As an RMer, the queen would need to be everywhere, while endangering herself. Chet was shot in the film, and ran like a little girl.
Whereas as an egg layer, she could stay in relative safety while making progress.
So, the RM is only if she has no sack.
lol... whoops... that was supposed to SiL post beginning with the "weeeeelll" thing.
That is a good point about Newt. But that hive was only a couple of weeks old. Maybe there weren't enough eggs yet. Maybe the population has to reach a critical mass of sorts. Or maybe the hive had gone into a sort of hibernation mode because they didn't sense anymore host. Though I am curious about the story behind the woman they found still alive in the hive. She could only have been there a few hours (or ten minutes according to Paul Anderson).
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 26, 2008, 12:19:03 AM
As an egg layer, the huggers can do the impregnating work, while the queen could spend her time making more eggs.
As an RMer, the queen would need to be everywhere, while endangering herself. Chet was shot in the film, and ran like a little girl.
Whereas as an egg layer, she could stay in relative safety while making progress.
So, the RM is only if she has no sack.
Couldn't have said it better.
word
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 26, 2008, 12:19:03 AM
As an egg layer, the huggers can do the impregnating work, while the queen could spend her time making more eggs.
But it takes five seconds for the Queen to vomit. It takes 10 hours for the huggers to impregnate.
QuoteAs an RMer, the queen would need to be everywhere, while endangering herself. Chet was shot in the film, and ran like a little girl.
HOW
GODDAMNEDMANYTIMESDOES
THIS
NEED
TO
BE
SAID?!
Aliens cocoon people. Aliens drag people away. Queeny could sit on her fat everloving ass all damned day and just puke into victims held down by the Aliens. Or she could puke into cocooned people. Given the speed of the method, they could restock a single room with hosts several times during the course of a day. She'd never have to leave one place.
QuoteAs an egg layer, the huggers can do the impregnating work, while the queen could spend her time making more eggs.
And since there were already huggers (which inexplicably lunge towards the PredAlien) and therefore Aliens from the ship, it makes the RM redundant. Those Aliens could've brought hosts to the where the Queen was laying eggs, and within 24 hours - you have lots more Aliens.
The RM would've made more sense (or indeed any sense) if the PredAlien had been alone. Would've been just as f**ktarded, but it might've made some sense in context.
But what if there are no people? And say the queen is injured. Better make those eggs, because if the queen dies, there needs to be something left over.
And going out to vomit, for lack of a better word, would put the predalien in pointless danger if it wasn't a final resort. Getting aliens to drag people to her would be stupid, because while this guy gets the treatment, some other guy gets away, and the queen isn't producing eggs, meaning nothing left over in the future. So the eggs are made, so facehuggers can get many people at a time.
In Alien, there wouldn't be any eggs if there was only the RM.
Quote from: SM on Feb 26, 2008, 12:26:25 AM
QuoteAs an egg layer, the huggers can do the impregnating work, while the queen could spend her time making more eggs.
And since there were already huggers (which inexplicably lunge towards the PredAlien) and therefore Aliens from the ship, it makes the RM redundant. Those Aliens could've brought hosts to the where the Queen was laying eggs, and within 24 hours - you have lots more Aliens.
The RM would've made more sense (or indeed any sense) if the PredAlien had been alone. Would've been just as f**ktarded, but it might've made some sense in context.
There were, what, four facehuggers that get into our system? Chet needs an army of guards. 4 won't cut it.
yet who knows how many more facehuggers were lose
Quote from: Zero on Feb 26, 2008, 12:31:55 AM
yet who knows how many more facehuggers were lose
4.
The others were dead on the ship.
Okay SiL. You have a point. But lets say the aliens come in with 150 hosts. What's more efficient, placing them in front of the queen and having her impregnate them one at a time. Or having an egg placed in front of each host. I'm going to say the egg method. You are welcome to disagree. And please to to keep the conversation civil, no one is swearing and no one is attacking you, so there's no reason to get up in arms about it. We're just having fun.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 12:35:51 AM
Okay SiL. You have a point. But lets say the aliens come in with 150 hosts. What's more efficient, placing them in front of the queen and having her impregnate them one at a time. Or having an egg placed in front of each host. I'm going to say the egg method. You are welcome to disagree. And please to to keep the conversation civil, no one is swearing and no one is attacking you, so there's no reason to get up in arms about it. We're just having fun.
I hear the wisdom of a future Moderator
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 12:35:51 AM
Okay SiL. You have a point. But lets say the aliens come in with 150 hosts. What's more efficient, placing them in front of the queen and having her impregnate them one at a time. Or having an egg placed in front of each host. I'm going to say the egg method. You are welcome to disagree. And please to to keep the conversation civil, no one is swearing and no one is attacking you, so there's no reason to get up in arms about it. We're just having fun.
So we agree.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 26, 2008, 12:30:11 AM
But what if there are no people?
Are you trying to prove my point or what? This is what I'm saying; the 'primary' method makes more sense as a secondary.
QuoteBetter make those eggs, because if the queen dies...
...another Alien just turns into one and starts vomiting Aliens all over again.
QuoteGetting aliens to drag people to her would be stupid, because while this guy gets the treatment, some other guy gets away,
...what, so it takes an entire hive of Aliens to get
one person? Shit, don't let the Bros see that.
Quoteand the queen isn't producing eggs, meaning nothing left over in the future.
Which is why when the hosts run out she reverts to the secondary egg-laying cycle. Ta daa!
QuoteIn Alien, there wouldn't be any eggs if there was only the RM.
And here you miss my point entirely. Thank you.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 12:35:51 AM
I'm going to say the egg method.
In the time it would take one of those huggers to merely impregnate a host, let alone for the Alien to be born, the Queen could've impregnated all of those 150 hosts with five Aliens each. By the time a singly traditionally birthed Alien was born, the Queen would have herself
seven hundred and fifty Aliens.
Seriously, let's do the math.
About 18 hours for the traditional born Aliens all to be born. Let's say they're all hugged at the same time and go by the
Alien length.
Judging by AvPR, it takes about half a minute for the PredAlien to impregnate someone. In 75 minutes, the Queen has impregnated 150 hosts with a total of 750 baby Aliens, who are then born not even an hour later, and are adults soon after.
See?
It doesn't add up.
QuoteChet needs an army of guards. 4 won't cut it.
Straight out of a BS Book of Zen and Higher Wisdom.
Oddly enough, one Alien has done plenty of damage in the past. Guess they don't count anymore.
If each of the four (hypothetically) Aliens abducted just two people - within 24 hours (in fact a lot less - say 16-20) you've gone from four to twelve Aliens. Another 24 hours you have 36 Aliens. It sticks within realistic established limitations, instead of "Duuuuhhh... look at my script! I wrote with my red crayon!!"
I should hope I act like that about all this, Zero. I'm a 26 year old man chatting in a sci-fi movie fan site.
And yes Alieneseses, I agree with you.
Again, I think the Predalien was just a young queen and that the "secondardy" reproduction was how she was able to establish a band of soldiers to protect her before just molted into a new queen. And it makes sense. Lets say the, a human birthed queen, pops out. No other aliens around. Or at least very few. Well, the queen needs to be able to quickly get a group together that can start getting hosts and start building the hive (though I still like to think the hive is "grown", but that's another topic). Now we've never seen a young queen change into a full grown one, so maybe she goes through a vulnerable period of time where she's possibly coccooned before she lays eggs. She need guardians. So I think the oral reproduction method (sans available eggs and facehuggers) makes sense.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2008, 12:42:02 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 26, 2008, 12:30:11 AM
But what if there are no people?
Are you trying to prove my point or what? This is what I'm saying; the 'primary' method makes more sense as a secondary.
QuoteBetter make those eggs, because if the queen dies...
...another Alien just turns into one and starts vomiting Aliens all over again.
QuoteGetting aliens to drag people to her would be stupid, because while this guy gets the treatment, some other guy gets away,
...what, so it takes an entire hive of Aliens to get one person? Shit, don't let the Bros see that.
Quoteand the queen isn't producing eggs, meaning nothing left over in the future.
Which is why when the hosts run out she reverts to the secondary egg-laying cycle. Ta daa!
QuoteIn Alien, there wouldn't be any eggs if there was only the RM.
And here you miss my point entirely. Thank you.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 12:35:51 AM
I'm going to say the egg method.
In the time it would take one of those huggers to merely impregnate a host, let alone for the Alien to be born, the Queen could've impregnated all of those 150 hosts with five Aliens each. By the time a singly traditionally birthed Alien was born, the Queen would have herself seven hundred and fifty Aliens.
Seriously, let's do the math.
About 18 hours for the traditional born Aliens all to be born. Let's say they're all hugged at the same time and go by the Alien length.
Judging by AvPR, it takes about half a minute for the PredAlien to impregnate someone. In 75 minutes, the Queen has impregnated 150 hosts with a total of 750 baby Aliens, who are then born not even an hour later, and are adults soon after.
See?
It doesn't add up.
If the queen dies, there may not be another alien.
And a queen can't imprgnate mouth-to-mouth on many people simultaneously.
The eggs are safer than the impregnation, because it ensures many embryos, while a single queen doing it herself would take time and would put the queen into danger.
Quote from: SM on Feb 26, 2008, 12:42:48 AM
QuoteChet needs an army of guards. 4 won't cut it.
Straight out of a BS Book of Zen and Higher Wisdom.
Oddly enough, one Alien has done plenty of damage in the past. Guess they don't count anymore.
If each of the four (hypothetically) Aliens abducted just two people - within 24 hours (in fact a lot less - say 16-20) you've gone from four to twelve Aliens. Another 24 hours you have 36 Aliens. It sticks within realistic established limitations, instead of "Duuuuhhh... look at my script! I wrote with my red crayon!!"
Except people have guns here. Lose the 4 guards. "Oh crud, I'm on my own! Too bad I can't make any more."
QuoteExcept people have guns here. Lose the 4 guards. "Oh crud, I'm on my own! Too bad I can't make any more."
Uh, no. Queens lay eggs. And she is surrounded by them. So if her 'guards' are killed and anyone tries to kill her - huggers on the loose looking for hosts. If she dies - stiff shit. Thems the breaks and the eggs are left behind to impregnate the next poor sod. Think I saw something like that in a film once...
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 26, 2008, 12:47:11 AM
If the queen dies, there may not be another alien.
In which case they're screwed. It happens.
QuoteAnd a queen can't imprgnate mouth-to-mouth on many people simultaneously.
...hence the whole 75 minutes thing.
QuoteThe eggs are safer than the impregnation, because it ensures many embryos, while a single queen doing it herself would take time and would put the queen into danger.
...So why, if the Queen is trying to build an army to
protect her, doesn't she just find a really nice secluded spot and start crapping out eggs? Hello? I'm seeing a fundamental flaw in this whole "she needs an army" baloney.
QuoteExcept people have guns here. Lose the 4 guards. "Oh crud, I'm on my own! Too bad I can't make any more."
Yeah, the national guard totally showed the Aliens what for.
Quite. Alieneseses argument there hinges on the hosts knowing exactly what and where the Aliens are.
SM, please play nice.
SiL, from my understanding, the reason that five aliens popped out of one host was because those hosts were pregnant. After that I'm kind of cornered, because the time it takes for an alien to gestate was so wildly altered because of AvP. According to AvP, aliens (and these ones were born from eggs) gestated and grew to full size in twenty minutes. In aliens and alien, it was something like 8 hours (I'm not acutallly sure, they never fully establish it). So I'm making the assumption that both in the OR (oral reproduction) and the ER (egg reproduction) the gestation time takes the same. But that's a sticky area because of those particular continuity issues. And I've never seen in books or movies what happens when a woman who is pregnant gets face hugged. Maybe it has the same results. So I'm still saying egg is more efficient.
Also, aliens can carry eggs away from the hive. A hive with just an OR queen couldn't do that. And maybe queens can't be produced through the OR method. Maybe that's why it's important for queens to transition into egg layers.
SiL, for someone who does't like the idea of having the OR the primary form of reproduction, you're fighting awfully hard for it.
Now I assume you're doing it to make the point that it messes with continuity because "hey, why don't the aliens do that all the time." Well, I return to the "nature of the beast argument" in that they simply don't. I'm trying to integrate the idea into established cannon. Not toss out the stuff that's already there. Sorry if you thought the contrary.
I'm gonna go with the following theory:
Some of us like the Predalien's reproductive technique and some of us don't. Sounds valid to me.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 12:58:38 AM
And I've never seen in books or movies what happens when a woman who is pregnant gets face hugged. Maybe it has the same results.
You see the PredAlien physically planting multiple embryos, so unless the assertion is that a typical facehugger has lots of embryos still inside it when it dies, this is unlikely.
QuoteSM, please play nice.
What wasn't nice about his reply?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2008, 01:04:14 AM
Some of us like the Predalien's reproductive technique and some of us don't. Sounds valid to me.
That's a theory?
Quote from: SM on Feb 26, 2008, 12:50:41 AM
QuoteExcept people have guns here. Lose the 4 guards. "Oh crud, I'm on my own! Too bad I can't make any more."
Uh, no. Queens lay eggs. And she is surrounded by them. So if her 'guards' are killed and anyone tries to kill her - huggers on the loose looking for hosts. If she dies - stiff shit. Thems the breaks and the eggs are left behind to impregnate the next poor sod. Think I saw something like that in a film once...
That's why I'm saying the RM is secondary and the eggs are necessary.
QuoteSM, please play nice.
I'm not?
QuoteIn aliens and alien, it was something like 8 hours (I'm not acutallly sure, they never fully establish it).
Aliens tells us nothing. Alien and Alien3 tells us somewhere around 16 hours give or take a few hours.
QuoteSo I'm still saying egg is more efficient.
In what way though? As SiL has pointed out, you get more Aliens quicker by barfing in someone's mouth. Unless it's exclusive to knocked up women - which makes it even more silly.
QuoteSiL, for someone who does't like the idea of having the OR the primary form of reproduction, you're fighting awfully hard for it.
He's making the point that it shouldn't be a secondary form of reproduction as so many fans and filmmakers claim. And therefore it's inherant moronity.
QuoteThat's why I'm saying the RM is secondary and the eggs are necessary.
Eh? Why is it secondary when she can just start laying eggs. Eggs = defenses.
QuoteThat's a theory?
Uh yeah...hmmm... It's fact. I don't really care if people like it - just don't try and tell me it makes sense.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 26, 2008, 01:05:33 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2008, 01:04:14 AM
Some of us like the Predalien's reproductive technique and some of us don't. Sounds valid to me.
That's a theory?
It's called sarcasm ::)
Uncanny, I'm going to say that the reason we assume that a bunch of aliens come out of pregnant woman because the directors made a distinct effort to show that it was pregnant woman that it was impregnating. They wouldn't have gone through all the trouble of having woman with prego eggos (thank you Juno) get pumped full of baby aliens. I'm making the assumption based on the information that was given up by the directors. But I'm no film scholar, I could be wrong.
Also, I don't know how many potential embryo's the facehugger puts in a host at all. Maybe it's many, and only the most viable is born because in a regular state, a host can only nurture one alien at a time. But in the case of a pregnant being, maybe many of the potential embryo's take hold.
And it was something SM said ealier. I'm a really slow typer.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 01:14:30 AM
Uncanny, I'm going to say that the reason we assume that a bunch of aliens come out of pregnant woman because the directors made a distinct effort to show that it was pregnant woman that it was impregnating. They wouldn't have gone through all the trouble of having woman with prego eggos (thank you Juno) get pumped full of baby aliens. I'm making the assumption based on the information that was given up by the directors. But I'm no film scholar, I could be wrong.
Also, I don't know how many potential embryo's the facehugger puts in a host at all. Maybe it's many, and only the most viable is born because in a regular state, a host can only nurture one alien at a time. But in the case of a pregnant being, maybe many of the potential embryo's take hold.
And it was something SM said ealier. I'm a really slow typer.
But we don't know that the homeless woman in the sewer or the waitress were pregnant. I'm also fairly confident it doesn't make a difference either way b/c I gather the Aliens busted out of their hosts at the same rate.
The pregnant thing was just to show that the aliens will kill anybody, no matter how helpless.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 01:14:30 AM
Uncanny, I'm going to say that the reason we assume that a bunch of aliens come out of pregnant woman because the directors made a distinct effort to show that it was pregnant woman that it was impregnating.
Except that for whatever reason, they only had the PredAlien impregnate women full stop. The homeless woman wasn't visibly pregant, as far as I can recall.
So it's difficult to assess intent. (Especially as Colin flip-flops on intent when pressed.)
SM. I think both side has made reasonable propositions as to why there are advantages and disadvantages to both forms of reproduction. So we agree to disagree. And yes, I know that SiL is making a point. I believe I explain that.
And I question the eggs=defense remark. The reason being this. Facehuggers are kind of crappy fighters. And someone has to drag hosts to the hive. Now there are alternative scenarios. in the comic Aliens: Earth Angels, the young queen gathered hosts while at the same time layed eggs, sans ovapositor (ovipositor?). So the queen could go through a gathering stage and then lay eggs.
I would like to make it clear at this time I'm not fighting to make the the OR fmethod a replacement for the traditional egg laying format of alien. Cause I don't think it should be that way. Though maybe there are different strains of aliens out there and some of them reproduce that way. That's fine by me.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 26, 2008, 01:20:29 AM
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 01:14:30 AM
Uncanny, I'm going to say that the reason we assume that a bunch of aliens come out of pregnant woman because the directors made a distinct effort to show that it was pregnant woman that it was impregnating.
Except that for whatever reason, they only had the PredAlien impregnate women full stop. The homeless woman wasn't visibly pregant, as far as I can recall.
So it's difficult to assess intent. (Especially as Colin flip-flops on intent when pressed.)
What do you mean full stop?
^That regardless of pregnancy, Chet only ever puked into women.
QuoteSo it's difficult to assess intent. (Especially as Colin flip-flops on intent when pressed.)
He can't help it if he never thought about it properly.
The up-the-duff chick thing just seems to complicate things even more. Seems extremely restrictive.
And what I don't get is why a supposed 'young Queen' needs a secondary cycle. She's the one who's supposed to be laying eggs. If she were simply a non-Queen - I can get the need for some process to bring about the birth of a Queen; but then egg morphing would've solved that little conundrum with this ill-conceived bullshit.
QuoteWhat do you mean full stop?
'Period' for non-English speakers.
QuoteFacehuggers are kind of crappy fighters.
:D
Yeah, Ripley really pwned that one in medlab...
They don't need to fight - they get the tail round your neck and you don't have two strapping marines to help you - you're f**ked.
I don't know about homeless woman. We didn't see how many babies came out of her. But lets count the aliens up to that point (minus Chet).
(Tell me if I'm wrong, I'm all ears)
We have the two from the man and the boy. Two from the homeless men. And one from the Homeless lady.
And in that first fight there were only about five aliens. Two got killed right off the bat. And three escaped with Predalien (I think).
So she only popped one alien.
And waitress lady was way pregers. So I stand by my conclusion. Pregnant women made for lots of baby aliens all at once.
I'm going to say something a little inflamitory, and it just my opinion. I was never a fan of the egg-morphing thing and I'm kind of glad it's not cannon. Having to use one host is inefficient enough. Needing two to make just one aliens, that's overkill. For me. If anything i liked the idea that Steven Perry came up with. That in the absence of a queen, a drone could morph into one. That's just me.
I promise my grammar isn't that bad in real life.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 01:35:24 AM
I promise my grammar isn't that bad in real life.
Lol
QuoteHaving to use one host is inefficient enough. Needing two to make just one aliens, that's overkill.
Ideally, the Alien would morph it's former host into an egg. So you only need one more for impregnation, not two.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 01:34:33 AM
Needing two to make just one aliens, that's overkill.
Which is why it makes a lot more sense as a back-up form of reproduction that the PredAlien's does.
Yeah, never got the egg-morph thing. That does make a little more sense, but I don't know if I remember that from the novelizations (which I think is where it's written about the most). On a side note, Alan Dean Foster is a really boring writer.
There was a fight on this site about whether or not the homeless woman was impregnated or skulled.
Uncanny.
Contribute, don't criticize, please.
I've already explained a couple of times why i think it makes sense. I am not saying I'm right by any means. The only people that can do that are the people that make the movies. And if you don't agree, that is perfectly fine. And if you have a better idea on how to integrate the oral reproduction thing into the Aliens mythos I am all ears.
Alieneses... you may be right about the "skulling her" thing. Because honestly, thinking about it, I think there were only four aliens (minus Chet, who's still an alien even though she wasn't as cute at the other girls) in the sewer fight.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 01:43:35 AM
Uncanny.
Contribute, don't criticize, please.
Thanks, but I'll contribute in whatever way I see fit. Don't let Zero's hero worship go to your head.
nchuch.
Modify, don't 'new reply', please.
The homeless woman was impregnated, and this is on film. Period.
The noises for striketeeth attack and implantation are different and it extremely clearly makes the implantation noise.
the end.
Yes, the homeless woman was implanted. I thought that was made very clear.
I thought so too, until somebody started arguing with me.
SM.... um, sorry?
Uncanny. Sorry.
And homeless chick was probably impregnated. But I still am not convinced she was pregnant.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 26, 2008, 01:50:11 AM
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 01:43:35 AM
Uncanny.
Contribute, don't criticize, please.
Thanks, but I'll contribute in whatever way I see fit. Don't let Zero's hero worship go to your head.
Hero Worship?
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 02:02:29 AM
And homeless chick was probably impregnated. But I still am not convinced she was pregnant.
I don't think she was supposed to be. Don't quote me, but I seem to recall mention of her being added specifically due to the fact that all the other women were pregnant, and it was thought a bit of a stretch to have her pregnant too. May have been in the ADI book, but I'll have to double check.
She wasn't pregnant. In the interview with Colin over at AXP, he said they had the homeless woman be impregnated to show that they don't have to be pregnant to be implanted.
If she was impregnated, what happened to the Alien? ???
Quote from: That Yellow Alien on Feb 26, 2008, 02:06:42 AM
She wasn't pregnant. In the interview with Colin over at AXP, he said they had the homeless woman be impregnated to show that they don't have to be pregnant to be implanted.
Not that I don't beileve you but did you know of any links for this interview...
Zero, you're not. Don't worry about it.
SiL. I'm confused too. Has anyone counted the aliens in the sewer scene?
I have.
There are four.
Wolf shoots one, pulls another from the ceiling and shoots it, then wrestles with the other two.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2008, 02:10:28 AM
I have.
There are four.
Wolf shoots one, pulls another from the ceiling and shoots it, then wrestles with the other two.
Don't forget the one he had in his hand at the time,then shoved the blue liquid into it
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2008, 02:07:58 AM
If she was impregnated, what happened to the Alien? ???
That one was the only one of the group who didn't have an off-switch, and was smart enough to go do its own thing.
It'd most likely be the hunter or hunter's son that was missing though. Didn't we only see one adult Alien in the sewer prior to Wolf showing up?
Yeah..... I'm going to have to chalk that up to the BS not being able to count. Though, there is the one that eats the little girls dad. That might have been the elusive fifth alien.
Quote from: Zero on Feb 26, 2008, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2008, 02:10:28 AM
I have.
There are four.
Wolf shoots one, pulls another from the ceiling and shoots it, then wrestles with the other two.
Don't forget the one he had in his hand at the time,then shoved the blue liquid into it
HOSPITAL SCENE.
QuoteSM.... um, sorry?
Accepted.
Quote from: Zero on Feb 26, 2008, 02:11:26 AM
Don't forget the one he had in his hand at the time,then shoved the blue liquid into it
That was in the hive.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 02:12:27 AM
Yeah..... I'm going to have to chalk that up to the BS not being able to count. Though, there is the one that eats the little girls dad. That might have been the elusive fifth alien.
Except that happens after the Aliens escape, so there's no way of knowing.
the one that got its tail pulled by wolf and was shot underwater lived.
its one of the aliens that tackles him.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 26, 2008, 02:13:10 AM
Quote from: Zero on Feb 26, 2008, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2008, 02:10:28 AM
I have.
There are four.
Wolf shoots one, pulls another from the ceiling and shoots it, then wrestles with the other two.
Don't forget the one he had in his hand at the time,then shoved the blue liquid into it
HOSPITAL SCENE.
hard to keep up with in dark inviroments
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 26, 2008, 02:13:53 AM
the one that got its tail pulled by wolf and was shot underwater lived.
its one of the aliens that tackles him.
So there are only three Aliens, which is even more confusing.
dont forget the one that jumped at wolf and was thrown into a wall. it never got back up. it must have been dead...stupid BS.
Yeah... agreed. These scenes were filmed in darkly-blur-o-rama shake-a-cam. So who knows. But It wasn't a whole bunch of aliens. So I'm going to say that if homeless chick was impregnated then only one monster baby popped out of her.
Mar, I think you're just confusing everyone unneedlessly.
There are four.
One is shot and hits the laser trap.
Two scuttles across the ceiling, is dragged down and shot by Wolf.
Three and Four attack Wolf, who (ugh) grabs them by the neck until Chet knocks his ass down.
Chet, Three, and Four escape into the street.
I think Uncanny is right (and "ugh" is right). And I think he's also right, that another alien wondered off. There was just the one of the hunter pair that shows up in the sewer to scare the homeless folk. So the other may have been a scout of sorts. I'm trying to think of when the attack in the girls bedroom happens in the sequence of things. Isn't that after the aliens escape the sewer.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 02:22:38 AM
I think Uncanny is right (and "ugh" is right). And I think he's also right, that another alien wondered off. There was just the one of the hunter pair that shows up in the sewer to scare the homeless folk. So the other may have been a scout of sorts. I'm trying to think of when the attack in the girls bedroom happens in the sequence of things. Isn't that after the aliens escape the sewer.
in some fan fiction or canon they do say Drones will wander away from the hive in search of more resources.
Not likely if there's plenty of resources on hand though.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 02:22:38 AM
I'm trying to think of when the attack in the girls bedroom happens in the sequence of things. Isn't that after the aliens escape the sewer.
Yes, the O'Brien attack happens after the sewer escape.
Still, no reason to assume that's not our solo wanderer.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 26, 2008, 02:18:56 AM
Mar, I think you're just confusing everyone unneedlessly.
There are four.
One is shot and hits the laser trap.
Two scuttles across the ceiling, is dragged down and shot by Wolf.
Three and Four attack Wolf, who (ugh) grabs them by the neck until Chet knocks his ass down.
Chet, Three, and Four escape into the street.
thats incorrect.
one aliens gets shot and cut up by the lasers.
another alien got its tail yanked and was shot underwater but lived.
another alien jumps at wolf and is thrown into the wall.
then an alien that is on the wall jumps at wolf followed by the alien that got its tail yanked.
then the stupid scene with wolf holding them happens.
http://www.alienexperience.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1032&Itemid=700
Also, as originally scripted, it was just pregnant women as PredAlien prey, and then as we were cutting the movie, we decided to revise that -- that's why we added the homeless woman who wasn't pregnant getting attacked -- because if they're all pregnant -- it's going to be so convenient -- it's going to be a plot convenience. So we said, we have to loose that subplot. -- so we just basically re-wrote that after we shot the movie.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 26, 2008, 02:26:35 AM
thats incorrect.
Well, either way...your count still indicates four, so what's the diff?
I think it may be time to pay a visit to notoneofothosesightsyoucanwatchillegallypiratedmoviesonbecausethatwouldbewrong.
Yeah, I'm all confused. Anyway, homeless chick not pregers. Prego chicks = muy alien belly party.
Though I am now completely fascinated by the alien body count in this film. Was anyone (including the BS) paying attention?
They were just following in Jeunet and Anderson's footsteps. ;)
By the time Wolf was in the sewers, there were about 7-8 Aliens.
2 from the facehugged hunters.
2 from the facehugged homeless guys.
3-4 from the womb of the homeless woman.
QuoteThey were just following in Jeunet and Anderson's footsteps.
Sadly. There wasn't much that shat me about Resurrection - but THAT did. >:(
AvP shat me in general so it didn't matter.
Wolf kills:
Two Aliens in the sewers (You're wrong, Mar; it is dead)
The Alien at the pool.
Four Aliens in the shoe store.
Six Aliens in the hive (including the elevator Alien).
Another Alien on the roof.
At least.
Quote from: That Yellow Alien on Feb 26, 2008, 02:32:24 AM
By the time Wolf was in the sewers, there were about 7-8 Aliens.
2 from the facehugged hunters.
2 from the facehugged homeless guys.
3-4 from the womb of the homeless woman.
I guess we're just agreeing to disagree. The most anyone has counted in the sewer was 5-4. Because there would have been even more aliens running around down there if homeless lady (who was pretty old, so I'm thinkin' her ovaries were all dried up) were pregnant. Which according the brothers the predator would have beaten senseless with one hand and no weapons and under the influence. Cause I guess that's how badass that predator was. I'm shocked he didn't get laid too. You know... while beating up aliens... at the same time...... badass.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2008, 02:35:55 AM
Wolf kills:
Two Aliens in the sewers (You're wrong, Mar; it is dead)
The Alien at the pool.
Four Aliens in the shoe store.
Six Aliens in the hive (including the elevator Alien).
Another Alien on the roof.
At least.
its not dead. it rose up right next to wolf.
I think that may have been another alien sneaking up behind him. I don't think an alien would survive a point blank blast from a predator gun. But I haven't watched in a while and I'm still in denial about most of what happened.
That one that rises up is the one that Wolf flips into a wall, not the one he shoots.
So now... I'm getting lost. What were we talk about again? I feel we got off track.
Quote from: That Yellow Alien on Feb 26, 2008, 02:42:15 AM
That one that rises up is the one that Wolf flips into a wall, not the one he shoots.
the one he threw against the wall was thrown far away from him. the one that was shot was right next to him. the alien that rises up is right next to him...therefore the aliens that rose up is the same one that was shot.
Thanks Yellow Alien for posting the thing from AXP. (and I always thought it was funny how like every damn woman in that town was pregnant)
Were talking about AVPR here. There is no way that Alien could survive being shot that close with two plasma casters at the same time. It died.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 26, 2008, 02:43:46 AM
So now... I'm getting lost. What were we talk about again? I feel we got off track.
The topic is discussing Chet vs. Wolf, but somehow we started discussing the Predalien's reproduction cycle.
Oh that. Well. I thought it was kind of a badass fight. Alien sucker punches and all. I just wish it wasn't so damn short.
It was most certainly a bad ass-fight. ;)
Ha, I get it.
Quote from: That Yellow Alien on Feb 26, 2008, 02:47:54 AM
Were talking about AVPR here. There is no way that Alien could survive being shot that close with two plasma casters at the same time. It died.
it was under water so that probably protected it right? also we saw an alien on the roof get hit by plasma and it was more or less fine.
I just checked the video again (thank you, Fox advertising department, for all but ruining the movie prior to release). The Alien that gets shot stays dead.
and yet you see it rise up and takes wolf. so clearly, it wasnt dead.
We see an Alien rise up. We also see the PredAlien rise the fudge out of nowhere, too.
I also watched it again, and there is no showing of the distance that Wolf flings the Alien. It jumps, Wolf uses his arms to propel the Alien away, and it hits a wall and lands in the water. It later gets up and tackles Wolf into the water along with another Alien.
Quote from: That Yellow Alien on Feb 26, 2008, 03:03:28 AM
I also watched it again, and there is no showing of the distance that Wolf flings the Alien. It jumps, Wolf uses his arms to propel the Alien away, and it hits a wall and lands in the water. It later gets up and tackles Wolf into the water along with another Alien.
so you are saying that wolf threw the alien all of 2 feet?
^Depends. Are you saying that Aliens cannot move all by themselves?
well that alien must have moved like lightning then.
Maybe it crawled under the water up to Wolf. Either way, I am certain that is the same Alien Wolf threw. The one he double blasted (ewww) is dead.
so five aliens. or four?
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 26, 2008, 02:59:36 AM
and yet you see it rise up and takes wolf. so clearly, it wasnt dead.
Wolf pulled down an Alien from the ceiling, shot that one. He threw another one against the wall, which simply fell into the water. Before he could blast it, he was tackled by another Alien, then the one he threw against the wall.
Then came the controversial scene with Wolf holding them both by the neck but before he could do anything, Chet came up from behind and bitch slapped him.
4 and chet. Chet, who was sitting under the water?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2008, 03:16:55 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 26, 2008, 02:59:36 AM
and yet you see it rise up and takes wolf. so clearly, it wasnt dead.
Wolf pulled down an Alien from the ceiling, shot that one. He threw another one against the wall, which simply fell into the water. Before he could blast it, he was tackled by another Alien, then the one he threw against the wall.
Then came the controversial scene with Wolf holding them both by the neck but before he could do anything, Chet came up from behind and bitch slapped him.
The neck thing never bothered me. They struggled, and one of them tries to bite a caster, but everyone says it's terrible.
Preds are strong too. And they were thrashing. How Wolf was going to blow up one with a caster and avoidthe acid will be unknown.
Can you see those floppy ass dorsal tubes in the film?
Nah, not really. You really don't see much of anything for long in the sewer scene, until Wolf starts grandstanding with the two bitches.
There is a nice Alien 3-esque shot of a CG Alien running across the ceiling though.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 26, 2008, 03:18:27 AM
4 and chet. Chet, who was sitting under the water?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2008, 03:16:55 AM
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 26, 2008, 02:59:36 AM
and yet you see it rise up and takes wolf. so clearly, it wasnt dead.
Wolf pulled down an Alien from the ceiling, shot that one. He threw another one against the wall, which simply fell into the water. Before he could blast it, he was tackled by another Alien, then the one he threw against the wall.
Then came the controversial scene with Wolf holding them both by the neck but before he could do anything, Chet came up from behind and bitch slapped him.
The neck thing never bothered me. They struggled, and one of them tries to bite a caster, but everyone says it's terrible.
Preds are strong too. And they were thrashing. How Wolf was going to blow up one with a caster and avoidthe acid will be unknown.
Preds are strong, but dude, unless Wolf was holding them strongly enough that he was crushing their necks, they could have just as easily spit acid or impaled him with their tales. The most they did was headbite, and that was no good b/c they weren't close enough.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 26, 2008, 03:23:08 AM
Nah, not really. You really don't see much of anything for long in the sewer scene, until Wolf starts grandstanding with the two bitches.
There is a nice Alien 3-esque shot of a CG Alien running across the ceiling though.
Actually they are stiff when the Alien comes out of the water, which i thought was odd given the nature of the suit.
Chet vs Wolf Breakdown:
Chet hit Wolf with her tail hard enough to make him fly back I'd say about ten feet. (Sewer)
(Wolf showed no physical signs of damage.)
Chet hit Wolf with her tail again this time Wolf went through a wall. (Hive)
(Wolf shook his head after the blow showing that getting knocked through a wall by the tail strike might have hurt a little more.)
Wolf slashed Chet's stomach horizontally with the reverse side of his Wrist Blades. (Hive)
(Chet howled either in pain or to call the other Aliens to attack wolf and she backed away from Wolf.)
Wolf whipped Chet with his Whip. (Rooftop)
(This is hard to see and I had to watch it a couple times but Wolf does whip Chet with his whip, on what looks like her left shoulder, before Chet catches his next attack with her tail. No physical damage done to Chet.)
After Wolf misses with his first jab of his Combi-Stick, Chet clubs the side of Wolf's head. (Rooftop)
(Wolf doesn't seem to be fazed. He spins off of the attack which leads to his next attack...)
Wolf impales Chet with his Combi-Stick. (Rooftop)
Chet roars in pain but retaliates quickly...)
Chet, again, clubs Wolf on the side of the head. (Rooftop)
(Wolf does not seem too bothered by these attacks. After being hit, he throws his Combi-Stick at Chet and nearly impales her again.)
Chet rams Wolf with her head and Wolf flies back about five feet and slams into a pipe. (Rooftop)
(Wolf is still standing. Pimp doesn't seem to be fixed so that would lessen the damage.)
After Chet rams Wolf with her head, there seems to be some sort of attack as she closes on Wolf but I can't tell if it's Wolf or Chet striking the other. (Rooftop)
(Looked again and it might be another head butt by Chet. Wolf appears fine.)
Wolf punches Chet in the face. (Rooftop)
(Chet appears fine.)
After taking the punch, Chet claws at Wolf's head. (Rooftop)
(I say "at" because I don't think this attack landed. Wolf rolls out of the way. Correct me if I am wrong though.)
Like Chet's very first attack, she whips Wolf with her tail again. Wolf flies back about ten feet. (Rooftop)
(Wolf gets up rather quickly and seems fine.)
Next is the collision between the two. (Rooftop)
(I don't think either warrior took any damage but points to Chet for driving Wolf back into a pipe.)
After Wolf is driven into the pipe, Chet clubs him hard enough to knock him into a metal box and onto his hands and knees. (Rooftop)
(This, along with the tail strike in the hive, seems to be the most damage Chet has done to Wolf so far. Wolf is on his hands and knees and seems to be disorientated a bit.)
Chet picks Wolf up and spins him chest-first into another flimsy pipe leading to her next strike. Wolf still seems to be dazed from Chet's last attack. Chet's inner-jaw extends and pierces Wolf's right shoulder. (Rooftop)
(Wolf, still dazed, roars in pain as his blood spews from the wound.)
Seemingly "woken up" from his dazed state from Che's inner-jaw attack, Wolf reaches up with his right arm and cradles Chet's head in some sort of reverse head-lock. Bending forward, Wolf slams Chet's head into the flimsy pipe. (Rooftop)
(Chet seems fine.)
Chet spins Wolf around and pins him against the pipe with her right hand on his chest. (Rooftop)
(Not really an attack but the look on Wolf's face shows that he's in trouble.)
After Chet's third attempt at piercing Wolf's skull with her inner-jaw, Wolf grabs her inner-jaw and tears it from her head. (Rooftop)
(Arguably the most damage Wolf has done to Chet. Blood spews from Chet's mouth.)
Wolf then uses this opportunity to extend his Wrist Blades and stab Chet under her jaw and clear through her head. (Rooftop)
(This is an arguably fatal wound for an Alien. No doubt Chet was in pain.)
While her head is impaled on Wolf's Wrist Blades, Chet swings her tail around and impales Wolf through his chest. (Rooftop)
(Wolf howls in pain and this type of attack is know to be fatal for Predators though not instantly.)
BOMB
You also have to take into account each combatant was injured throughout the movie.
Wolf:
Wolf might have been injured when the two Aliens leaped on him.
Wolf fell onto a steel beam from about twenty feet and was impaled by a small pipe on his right hip.
Wolf was shot at repeatedly and might have been injured by some of those bullets.
Wolf was knocked down an elevator shaft and was unknown how far he fell.
(That's all I can think of. If I am forgetting anything, please add.)
Chet:
Chet took about ten bullets in the body.
(That's all I can think of. lol. If you know of anything I am forgetting feel free to add.)
Who do you think won?
zis a trick question?
Who won...what do you mean? Who was the tougher creature, or who won the final fight?
I think we'll award this round to nuclear radiation. That bastard seems to win a lot of these contests.
However you want to slice it.
Who's tougher?
Who would have one if the bomb never dropped?
Whatever...
Quote from: GeToFfMe on Feb 26, 2008, 05:32:24 AM
However you want to slice it.
Who's tougher?
Who would have one if the bomb never dropped?
Whatever...
I think both creatures are equally tough. Had the bomb not been dropped, prolly Chet coz Wolf had been hit with the stroke of death.
Quote from: GeToFfMe on Feb 26, 2008, 05:32:24 AM
Who would have one if the bomb never dropped?
Chet. Wolf was already chestified, and Chet really only had injuries that we know Aliens can survive.
So much as it pains me to give it to that Bill Paxton-wannabe, Chet is the winnah in this particular instance. (Hardly surprising, seeing as full-of-himself Wolfie ditched all his weaponry for no sensible reason.)
chet was tougher and stronger. one of the few things the BS got right.
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 26, 2008, 05:51:47 AM
Quote from: GeToFfMe on Feb 26, 2008, 05:32:24 AM
Who would have one if the bomb never dropped?
Chet. Wolf was already chestified, and Chet really only had injuries that we know Aliens can survive.
So much as it pains me to give it to that Bill Paxton-wannabe, Chet is the winnah in this particular instance. (Hardly surprising, seeing as full-of-himself Wolfie ditched all his weaponry for no sensible reason.)
How is Wolf a Bill Paxton-wannabe??
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2008, 06:06:51 AM
How is Wolf a Bill Paxton-wannabe??
He isn't. I said that in reference to Chet.
QuoteWolf was already chestified
OH CHESTIFY, MY BROTHER!!!!
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 26, 2008, 06:10:48 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2008, 06:06:51 AM
How is Wolf a Bill Paxton-wannabe??
He isn't. I said that in reference to Chet.
Ok, then replace Wolf with Chet in my initial question.
Bill Paxton's character in Weird Scienece was named Chet. It was why they named the AvPR 'thing' such as they did.
**Psi**
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 26, 2008, 06:06:51 AM
How is Wolf a Bill Paxton-wannabe??
weird science chet
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg168.imageshack.us%2Fimg168%2F9199%2Fturdgd4.jpg&hash=2dfe23f2a084e77a1837eada4af4ead9917c98f1)
any thoughts?
Notice how Wolf was sent flying by the tail towards the laser trap, and he fired two plasma bolts backwards to save himself and propel slightly forward?
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 26, 2008, 12:05:43 PM
Notice how Wolf was sent flying by the tail towards the laser trap, and he fired two plasma bolts backwards to save himself and propel slightly forward?
nah i didnt, the bad editing and bad lighting made it hard to see what the hell is goin on...
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 26, 2008, 12:05:43 PM
Notice how Wolf was sent flying by the tail towards the laser trap, and he fired two plasma bolts backwards to save himself and propel slightly forward?
you're serious? i can't remeber that from theater, i'll check it on dvd, when it finally be released, but that sounds pretty interesting :o
It's arguable.
The cutting just makes it seem like Wolf was firing anyway but was a moment too late to stop being knocked ass-backwards.
But y'know, I'll buy the 'intentional' idea. He is a super-elite-badass-mega-Pred, after all. ;)
Quote from: Uncanny Antman on Feb 26, 2008, 06:27:22 AM
Bill Paxton's character in Weird Scienece was named Chet. It was why they named the AvPR 'thing' such as they did.
**Psi**
Huh, I didn't know that. I was wondering for the longest where the name Chet came from, thanks.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 26, 2008, 12:05:43 PM
Notice how Wolf was sent flying by the tail towards the laser trap, and he fired two plasma bolts backwards to save himself and propel slightly forward?
He wasn't THAT close to the laser traps. The cannons fired with the intent to hit the two Aliens he was holding. He didn't intentionally fire them to stop from flying backward. We he got to his feet and stared at Chet, the laser trap was a good 15-20 feet behind him.
with the fast action you couldnt tell what was happenin
Quote from: gangstapred on Feb 27, 2008, 12:57:11 AM
with the fast action you couldnt tell what was happenin
An with the shitty lighting you couldn't tell what was happening either.
I saw things just fine.
I didn't.
Should have gotten more brutal, like instead of wolf taking off his mask, the predalien smashing it up.
Heres a thought: Did wolf take some of his gear off, to make the fight more fair, or because he wanted more a challenge?
thats a good way to look at it . cuz in the movie . to me they made it look like this pred was the shit . so i like your idea
Quote from: Weasel on Feb 27, 2008, 09:01:17 PM
Should have gotten more brutal, like instead of wolf taking off his mask, the predalien smashing it up.
Heres a thought: Did wolf take some of his gear off, to make the fight more fair, or because he wanted more a challenge?
The latter I believe. He knew his mission at that point was a wash so he upped the ante for himself. I still wanna know how he saw Chet after removing his mask though...
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 27, 2008, 09:47:02 PM
I still wanna know how he saw Chet after removing his mask though...
The same way the three previous Predators saw their opponents when they removed their masks... that slightly distorted red spectrum.
Quote from: Slugworth on Feb 27, 2008, 09:57:56 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 27, 2008, 09:47:02 PM
I still wanna know how he saw Chet after removing his mask though...
The same way the three previous Predators saw their opponents when they removed their masks... that slightly distorted red spectrum.
Only problem with that is the Aliens don't give off a heat signature, that's a Predator has to switch vision modes when hunting them.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 27, 2008, 10:14:48 PM
Only problem with that is the Aliens don't give off a heat signature, that's a Predator has to switch vision modes when hunting them.
Dutch's body didn't give off any noticeable heat signatures when the Predator removed his mask. I think it's well established that the Predator can see well enough without it, just like how Scar saw the Queen in AVP.
If the Predator's natural washed-out,
red-spectrum of vision refers to
heat, then naturally the Predator's vision would be slightly
less-obscured in the cooler climate of Colorado, perhaps making it easier to see objects without his mask.... like the Predalien. Just a theory.
QuoteDutch's body didn't give off any noticeable heat signatures when the Predator removed his mask. I
Watch it again. He gives off plenty of heat signatures while being knocked around by the Predator.
true
I think that the predalien didnt even want to kill Wolf, he needed him to make more predaliens.
Thats why it only tossed Wolf around so he would be weak and submissive to the inpragnant prosess.
Quote from: OxygenNarcotic on Feb 27, 2008, 11:10:02 PM
I think that the predalien didnt even want to kill Wolf, he needed him to make more predaliens.
Thats why it only tossed Wolf around so he would be weak and submissive to the inpragnant prosess.
yeah but what about the predator in the crashed ship that saw the facehuggers leaving. Chet didnt try to plant eggs in that predator it just killed him. :-X
well he has mask on and may have been too injured to be a host. but i stik with the mask :D
and he did set the wrist bomb, maybe chet tought it would be best to run as far as he can.
Quote from: OxygenNarcotic on Feb 28, 2008, 12:20:34 AM
well he has mask on and may have been too injured to be a host. but i stik with the mask :D
and he did set the wrist bomb, maybe chet tought it would be best to run as far as he can.
No he didn't. If he had set the bomb, there wouldn't have been anything left for Wolf to explore.
yeah he just sent a signal to the predators homeland
or he was going to set the wrist bomb, but the last push was interupted by alien lashing his headoff,
(and thats why he didnt inpragnant this predator cos he didnt have head anymore, and it seems decapasitating is the best way to kill predator as they seem to have good resistance to piercing effects on torso), i think that in this kind of case the first idea to predator would be blow him self up with everything in 1000yards radius or more.
i would surley think that this kind of highthec ship has automatic distress call mechanism for worst case scenarios like this, and not impelmented to the wrist computer. would be stupid in case of them all died at crash and no distress signal would be sent at all.
And the second blast destroying the ship seems bit deliberate cos the predator is standing in long corridor and for the second blast he turns his head 45degrees and blast full power to the ships hull with the cannon. the first blast doesnt seem to affect the ship at all, so i think he set the cannon for full poweroutput and downed the ship that was in remotecontrolled to go back to homeworld
as the other predators, (there were more than 2 in the ship) well they were allready hibernating in chambers or somthing as the vojage were to be long, so they would be easy target for predalien to inpragnant as she could do that with out the eggs.
Quote from: OxygenNarcotic on Feb 28, 2008, 09:04:24 AM
or he was going to set the wrist bomb, but the last push was interupted by alien lashing his headoff,
(and thats why he didnt inpragnant this predator cos he didnt have head anymore, and it seems decapasitating is the best way to kill predator as they seem to have good resistance to piercing effects on torso)
(This must have been in your version of the movie.)
It was never actually shown how Chet killed this Predator therefore we can only speculate.
They both were alive and kickin' before the bomb dropped. It was a draw.
How could the predalien impregnate the predator without a inner jaw?
Grow up and lay eggs?
That's IF it's a premature queen. And according to AVP-R (and alien 3) they eat with their inner jaws.
No, not according to Alien3.
Yeah. the alien in alien3 ate with it's primary mouth on a couple of occasions. I just kind of considered the in jaws more like a tongue, and the esophagus was located back behind it. I'm pretending that the alien in AVPR (which I seriously don't think ultimately will be considered cannon in the alien or Predator universe) was cracking open that dead guy's chest or something. To get at the good parts. Yeah, he could have used his hands, but apparently aliens are sophisticated enough to do that. (AR when the aliens pushes the button with it's tongue... don't get it)
I think the alien in AVP-R was just making holes, to prepare it for the actual eating.
QuoteYeah. the alien in alien3 ate with it's primary mouth on a couple of occasions.
Eating implies it ingested food for sustenance. We simply do not know this.
Nor do we know this from AVP-R.
Nor was I talking about AvP-Poo.
True, I don't know what the directors actual intention for having the alien maul the bodies of certain humans was. This may actually be the first step in the precess of generating hive material, because the queen was going to be born soon.
It's still up in the air whether or not the aliens eat or not. But then again, that mean there basic nature is quite possibly up in the air. Are they more animal or machine. I would think that suggesting they don't eat makes them more like a machine. They acquire energy through some internal means. Then again, machines often times need refueling. And if they were some how able to generate this energy, there would also be the issue of them converting that pure energy into mass.
Anyway, I'm getting off topic. All we can figure is that the aliens do in fact use their primary jaws to rip and tear flesh.
what are we talking about again....?
Chet vs. Wolf
Yeah... how... side tracked.
In Alien, I think the facehugger is giving Kane Oxygen at a point, right? Otherwise he would have died in the Jockey ship.
Does the alien adapt to the host's atmosphere?
Does the PA breathe in the same stuff as the predator? In P2 it has a respirator...
Quote from: nchurch81 on Feb 29, 2008, 02:55:07 AM
Yeah... how... side tracked.
I don't know what else there is to say lol. Just offer your thoughts on what you thought of it.
QuoteDoes the PA breathe in the same stuff as the predator? In P2 it has a respirator...
You're assuming they need to breathe like we do.
Quote from: SM on Feb 29, 2008, 03:07:13 AM
QuoteDoes the PA breathe in the same stuff as the predator? In P2 it has a respirator...
You're assuming they need to breathe like we do.
I've assumed it since Alien.
But I think it could hold in its breath a long time.
As far as aliens and breathing goes... I have no clue.
How about this. Aliens have acid for blood. Maybe this acid is meant to break down any particles that it contacts. This includes food, air... whatever. When the molecules are broken down to their very base components, the cells in the aliens can reconstruct them into whatever the body needs.
Though this would have a limit. The aliens body probably can't break apart individual atoms, unless it's generating little fission reactions in the cells. Who knows.
So either the aliens are filtering and slightly altering the atmosphere into whatever it needs to breathe (in the case of the all the aliens and in the case of Kane). Or they are doing some crazy physics magic in their bodies.
Now how did the alien know what combination of oxygen and nitrogen to feed Kane... that's a whole other topic.
QuoteI've assumed it since Alien.
It's still an assumption.
Quote from: SM on Feb 29, 2008, 03:23:01 AM
QuoteI've assumed it since Alien.
It's still an assumption.
Therefore, anything is possible. Even the assumption.
I could assume they communicate by ultrasonically whistling Herb Alpert's Casino Royale at each other - but it's not something I'd try and build a theory or argument on.
well as far as the breathing thing is concerned... you could both be right. We just don't know. And if the aliens can ultasonically whistle a good tune, I say why not.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 29, 2008, 02:09:53 AM
I think the alien in AVP-R was just making holes, to prepare it for the actual eating.
Well the bros. said it was eating. Not 'preparing'.
Quote from: Weasel on Feb 29, 2008, 04:16:55 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 29, 2008, 02:09:53 AM
I think the alien in AVP-R was just making holes, to prepare it for the actual eating.
Well the bros. said it was eating. Not 'preparing'.
The Brothers say a lot of things.
Said a lot of things. Ain't so talkative no more.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 29, 2008, 02:09:53 AM
I think the alien in AVP-R was just making holes, to prepare it for the actual eating.
No. It was just bad pupeetering. They did it so
good 16 years ago, why can't they do it even better today?
Quote from: Pvt. Hicks on Feb 29, 2008, 05:23:34 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 29, 2008, 02:09:53 AM
I think the alien in AVP-R was just making holes, to prepare it for the actual eating.
No. It was just bad pupeetering. They did it so good 16 years ago, why can't they do it even better today?
Bad directing. Also accounts for why the Alien dragged the bully so far away from where it killed him just for a snack.
Quote from: Pvt. Hicks on Feb 29, 2008, 05:23:34 AM
Quote from: Alienseseses on Feb 29, 2008, 02:09:53 AM
I think the alien in AVP-R was just making holes, to prepare it for the actual eating.
No. It was just bad pupeetering. They did it so good 16 years ago, why can't they do it even better today?
I like the puppeteering on the tongue. It opens wide before plunging.
There was no puppeteering on the tongue; it's computer generated. Really, really obviously so.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 29, 2008, 08:43:00 PM
There was no puppeteering on the tongue; it's computer generated. Really, really obviously so.
yeah it looked so fake, they really should leave the aliens inner jaw out of the CG category and leave it to the puppeteering. :o
Now how did the alien know what combination of oxygen and nitrogen to feed Kane... that's a whole other topic.
i would think that those facehuggers use the method of recycling the air they are in with those side sacks they got, so they dont need to breath at all them selfs (or they breath at the same process) and they are always providing the same air that they victims needs.
so basically they just pump the air they are in thru the sacks to the victim. works like bellows.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glassmenagerie.com%2Fcatalog%2Fimages%2FBellows.jpg&hash=e616ebe1a8031fbe5c8fe8dfcdd9e01c28975e4a)
And it happened to be our kind of air.
I think it's a mechanism evolved to keep hosts alive. You can't breathe if you are on a different planet or if you have something blocking your mouth and nose.
Problem with recycling air is that the air we breathe out is bad for us. That's why we breathe it out. So if the the facehugger takes it in and puts it back in the host, the host would choke on Carbone dioxide.
The issue is, how does the the facehugger figure out what the host needs to keep it alive.
Okay, this is a huge stretch. But maybe the egg is more than just a vessel for the facehugger. Maybe it scans hosts that approach and transfers this info to the facerhugger inside. That might explain that subtle glow the egg emits.
Now this doesn't explain free ranger facehuggers, like those in AVP-R or Aliens i the medlab. Lets assume that after awhile in an environment the eggs and huggers adjust to the atmosphere and it's only when encounters a being not of that evironment that those settings are changed. In this scenario, if a free ranger hugger adapted from earth attached itself to a being that breathed methane (makin' it up, don't know if it could happen) then the hugger would kill the host because it wouldn't have the egg there to re-adjust those "settings" of what kind of atmosphere to feed the host.
Though this gets into even weirder territory because these ideas assume that all beings have a similar set up as many of those on earth, that have a face and an esophagus through which they exchange gasses.
How do facehuggers deal with beings that don't have this set up?
Why do you people keep jacking the thread?
well when the facehugger is able to attack its prey for egglaying the pray should be breathing the air its in, so if it just recycles the air in it will automatically be the right air.. and the part of getting the bad air off is simple. one tube down other up. so when air is pushed downwards the air inside will come up as result of pressure. you can test it with tube and water, the bubbels are air coming up, it doesent stay in water.
what i would have asked would be.. when the facehugger attacked inside of derelict, the jockey ship, the air would have been the air that was the planet lv-426 and it would have killed the host immediatly.
so maybe your scan idea works bit better there ;D The hugger would have to know hold its breath untill they got them inside the nostromo. Unless it can determine the air inside the lungs and outside in athmosphere as it lays eggs.
How do facehuggers deal with beings that don't have this set up?
this is also one matter that indicates the fact that it is weapon that is created for beings that has mouth kind of organism, like the predators and humans.
maybe thats why predators originaly camed to earth when they were looking for same kind of host creature for their experiments.
I havent read any of this thread, but anyway, I liked how Wolf didn't exactly come out on top, everyone thinks that the Preds whoop alien ass, but this proves them wrong HAHA!!
No it doesn't. It just proves that the only way the filmmakers thought an Alien could do anything but flail and die against a Predator was to have come out of one.
Come on, Aliens have the best weapon ever, mass reproduction, no Predator could survive against that kind of an onslaught, of course, AVP proved that wrong, but still. And plus, aliens are supposed to be quite strong (Attack wise) even though they can't survive an onslaught of viscious attacks.
QuoteCome on, Aliens have the best weapon ever, mass reproduction, no Predator could survive against that kind of an onslaught.
that is what i have been trying to say also, in slight diffrence.. predaliens are way stronger and can kill predatros fairly easily, but aliens are bit weaker (almoust as strong as predators) and have the change to kill predator but often die in the process them selfs also.
Quote from: Private Hudson on Mar 01, 2008, 08:50:51 AM
I havent read any of this thread, but anyway, I liked how Wolf didn't exactly come out on top, everyone thinks that the Preds whoop alien ass, but this proves them wrong HAHA!!
Wolf was abit more alive then the predalien :D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Private Hudson on Mar 01, 2008, 09:41:10 AMCome on, Aliens have the best weapon ever, mass reproduction, no Predator could survive against that kind of an onslaught, of course, AVP proved that wrong, but still.
AVP:R showed me that if I have enough handgun bullets or some assault rifle rounds I can just sit and shoot. There's no reason to fear their numbers anymore. All it mean is that they can have more casualties for the kill count.
QuoteAnd plus, aliens are supposed to be quite strong (Attack wise) even though they can't survive an onslaught of viscious attacks.
How, exactly? We've devolved from the creature in Fincher's film to two beasts that can't even fend off a single Predator. The only creature that proved that wrong in this movie was the PredAlien, and it died in the process. That only brings me back to my point that the only xenomorph in the movie that can think and fend for itself has Predator DNA.
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Mar 01, 2008, 07:52:19 PM
Quote from: Private Hudson on Mar 01, 2008, 09:41:10 AMCome on, Aliens have the best weapon ever, mass reproduction, no Predator could survive against that kind of an onslaught, of course, AVP proved that wrong, but still.
AVP:R showed me that if I have enough handgun bullets or some assault rifle rounds I can just sit and shoot. There's no reason to fear their numbers anymore. All it mean is that they can have more casualties for the kill count.
QuoteAnd plus, aliens are supposed to be quite strong (Attack wise) even though they can't survive an onslaught of viscious attacks.
How, exactly? We've devolved from the creature in Fincher's film to two beasts that can't even fend off a single Predator. The only creature that proved that wrong in this movie was the PredAlien, and it died in the process. That only brings me back to my point that the only xenomorph in the movie that can think and fend for itself has Predator DNA.
Technically the PA won. The nuke was what killed it off, not Wolf.
Naa it was more wounded then wolf ;D( sorry im a pred fan) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
^ chet was about to finish wolf, so the nuke saved wolf from a "defeat" so to speak..
I like to think the only reason the regular aliens get killed by Wolf is that Wolf is an elite Pred, which he really is.
I only wish the writers and directors were talented enough to make Wolf actually seem like an elite, rather than having to water the aliens down for him to seem elite.
I want the laiens to be like they were in Aliens, with a Pred as strong as Anytime, that would be a decent fight.
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 01:40:28 AM
I only wish the writers and directors were talented enough to make Wolf actually seem like an elite, rather than having to water the aliens down for him to seem elite.
To everyone complaining about the Aliens being watered down:
The Brothers made a point of saying this film would feature a badass Predator. Plus they also said they were huge Predator fans. If you couldn't read b/w the lines, then I feel sorry for you.
They did make the point that he would be badass, but I was disappointed, as a pred fan, that they couldn't actually make him do some skilled elite, badass, hunting, but had to weaken his enemies to seem better.
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 01:49:51 AM
They did make the point that he would be badass, but I was disappointed, as a pred fan, that they couldn't actually make him do some skilled elite, badass, hunting, but had to weaken his enemies to seem better.
But weakened in what way? The only reason I'm having a hard time digesting this argument is b/c IMO there were only two scenes where the Aliens were watered down: the sewer and the one above Dallas' head on the rooftop.
I mean, the Predators were watered down and made stupid in AvP, yet the same people complaining about the Aliens in AvP:R are the same people who say the Predators behaved perfectly in AvP ???
Quote from: Cloverfield Monster on Mar 02, 2008, 01:08:03 AM
^ chet was about to finish wolf, so the nuke saved wolf from a "defeat" so to speak..
u out yo rabbit azz mind if it wasnt for that bomb wolf would have won. IF A HUMAN GETS STABBED IN THE BACK AND SURVIVES ( PIZZA BOY ) WHY NOT A PREDATOR WHICH IS 100 TIMES BETTER. :P
Quote from: gangstapred on Mar 02, 2008, 01:55:58 AM
Quote from: Cloverfield Monster on Mar 02, 2008, 01:08:03 AM
^ chet was about to finish wolf, so the nuke saved wolf from a "defeat" so to speak..
u out yo rabbit azz mind if it wasnt for that bomb wolf would have won. IF A HUMAN GETS STABBED IN THE BACK AND SURVIVES ( PIZZA BOY ) WHY NOT A PREDATOR WHICH IS 100 TIMES BETTER. :P
The tail went through Ricky's shoulder, not his chest.
A little off topic, but... was there ever a theory that aliens thrived on fear?
I thought I heard it once.
Is it possible that they were intimidated by Wolf because he wasn't afraid of them?
Probably not, and it's probably a stupid idea, but it would explain why some aliens didn't try too hard.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 01:55:22 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 01:49:51 AM
They did make the point that he would be badass, but I was disappointed, as a pred fan, that they couldn't actually make him do some skilled elite, badass, hunting, but had to weaken his enemies to seem better.
But weakened in what way? The only reason I'm having a hard time digesting this argument is b/c IMO there were only two scenes where the Aliens were watered down: the sewer and the one above Dallas' head on the rooftop.
I mean, the Predators were watered down and made stupid in AvP, yet the same people complaining about the Aliens in AvP:R are the same people who say the Predators behaved perfectly in AvP ???
THAT IS TRUE, THE ALIEN FANS ROOTING FOR ( AVP ) DIDNT MINE FOR 1 ALIEN TO KILL 2 PREDATORS. THEY WOULDNT EVEN CARE IF THE PREDATORS WERE 5 FT TALL AND IS BIGGER THAN WHAT THEY WERE IN ( AVP ) ::)
Quote from: gangstapred on Mar 02, 2008, 02:02:00 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 01:55:22 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 01:49:51 AM
They did make the point that he would be badass, but I was disappointed, as a pred fan, that they couldn't actually make him do some skilled elite, badass, hunting, but had to weaken his enemies to seem better.
But weakened in what way? The only reason I'm having a hard time digesting this argument is b/c IMO there were only two scenes where the Aliens were watered down: the sewer and the one above Dallas' head on the rooftop.
I mean, the Predators were watered down and made stupid in AvP, yet the same people complaining about the Aliens in AvP:R are the same people who say the Predators behaved perfectly in AvP ???
THAT IS TRUE, THE ALIEN FANS ROOTING FOR ( AVP ) DIDNT MINE FOR 1 ALIEN TO KILL 2 PREDATORS. THEY WOULDNT EVEN CARE IF THE PREDATORS WERE 5 FT TALL AND IS BIGGER THAN WHAT THEY WERE IN ( AVP ) ::)
Caps lock is your enemy.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 01:55:22 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 01:49:51 AM
They did make the point that he would be badass, but I was disappointed, as a pred fan, that they couldn't actually make him do some skilled elite, badass, hunting, but had to weaken his enemies to seem better.
But weakened in what way? The only reason I'm having a hard time digesting this argument is b/c IMO there were only two scenes where the Aliens were watered down: the sewer and the one above Dallas' head on the rooftop.
I mean, the Predators were watered down and made stupid in AvP, yet the same people complaining about the Aliens in AvP:R are the same people who say the Predators behaved perfectly in AvP ???
The preds in AvP were lame in their portrayal, but those kills by Grid we're okay, it was stupid to kill two in the same scene, though. As for how they fought, that wasn't nearly as bad as the aliens in AvP:R. One got killed from behind while distracted, one got killed from being cocky (like the preds fromt he original films).
Yet, the aliens in AvP:R don't attack or do anything to Wolf when they clearly can, and he knocks them around like they were nothing. I wouldn't care if he killed 100x as many aliens if he did it in a way that showed him as a badass elite hunter and got his kills in a way that didn't require weaker/stupider aliens.
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 01:49:51 AM
They did make the point that he would be badass, but I was disappointed, as a pred fan, that they couldn't actually make him do some skilled elite, badass, hunting, but had to weaken his enemies to seem better.
I got the idea that once the predator took off his armour to fight the Predalien, he had no intention of winning
^ He did it for honour dude, remember P1?
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:03:28 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 01:55:22 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 01:49:51 AM
They did make the point that he would be badass, but I was disappointed, as a pred fan, that they couldn't actually make him do some skilled elite, badass, hunting, but had to weaken his enemies to seem better.
But weakened in what way? The only reason I'm having a hard time digesting this argument is b/c IMO there were only two scenes where the Aliens were watered down: the sewer and the one above Dallas' head on the rooftop.
I mean, the Predators were watered down and made stupid in AvP, yet the same people complaining about the Aliens in AvP:R are the same people who say the Predators behaved perfectly in AvP ???
The preds in AvP were lame in their portrayal, but those kills by Grid we're okay, it was stupid to kill two in the same scene, though. As for how they fought, that wasn't nearly as bad as the aliens in AvP:R. One got killed from behind while distracted, one got killed from being cocky (like the preds fromt he original films).
Yet, the aliens in AvP:R don't attack or do anything to Wolf when they clearly can, and he knocks them around like they were nothing. I wouldn't care if he killed 100x as many aliens if he did it in a way that showed him as a badass elite hunter and got his kills in a way that didn't require weaker/stupider aliens.
I apologize if I seem arrogant here, but I just don't buy that argument: the Predators in AvP were cocky.
Gill, w/e, he was distracted, his problem. But Celtic? No freaking way.
He saw his blades go blunt after cutting off Grid's tail. He nets Grid, but for w/e reason, all of a sudden FORGETS THAT THE NET CUTS THROUGH THE PREY AND CAUSES THEM TO BLEED. So what does he do? He stands there, admires his work, casually strolls over, says to himself "Well looky at that..." pulls out the knife ever so slowly thinking "Now let's see, where does this go..."
Then Grid breaks free, NOT pinning down Celtic's arms, yet he just sits there and gets killed.
::) gimme a freaking break.
I mean good God, at least the Aliens in AvP:R could move like they always have, across walls and with great speed and agility. But b/c the Predators in AvP were so fat, Scar couldn't even outrun Lex!!! Jesus...
^ Wow, thats funny dude, especially,
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 02:12:18 AM
So what does he do? He stands there, admires his work, casually strolls over, says to himself "Well looky at that..." pulls out the knife ever so slowly thinking "Now let's see, where does this go..."
Then Grid breaks free, NOT pinning down Celtic's arms, yet he just sits there and gets killed.
::) gimme a freaking break.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 02:12:18 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:03:28 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 01:55:22 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 01:49:51 AM
They did make the point that he would be badass, but I was disappointed, as a pred fan, that they couldn't actually make him do some skilled elite, badass, hunting, but had to weaken his enemies to seem better.
But weakened in what way? The only reason I'm having a hard time digesting this argument is b/c IMO there were only two scenes where the Aliens were watered down: the sewer and the one above Dallas' head on the rooftop.
I mean, the Predators were watered down and made stupid in AvP, yet the same people complaining about the Aliens in AvP:R are the same people who say the Predators behaved perfectly in AvP ???
The preds in AvP were lame in their portrayal, but those kills by Grid we're okay, it was stupid to kill two in the same scene, though. As for how they fought, that wasn't nearly as bad as the aliens in AvP:R. One got killed from behind while distracted, one got killed from being cocky (like the preds fromt he original films).
Yet, the aliens in AvP:R don't attack or do anything to Wolf when they clearly can, and he knocks them around like they were nothing. I wouldn't care if he killed 100x as many aliens if he did it in a way that showed him as a badass elite hunter and got his kills in a way that didn't require weaker/stupider aliens.
I apologize if I seem arrogant here, but I just don't buy that argument: the Predators in AvP were cocky.
Gill, w/e, he was distracted, his problem. But Celtic? No freaking way.
He saw his blades go blunt after cutting off Grid's tail. He nets Grid, but for w/e reason, all of a sudden FORGETS THAT THE NET CUTS THROUGH THE PREY AND CAUSES THEM TO BLEED. So what does he do? He stands there, admires his work, casually strolls over, says to himself "Well looky at that..." pulls out the knife ever so slowly thinking "Now let's see, where does this go..."
Then Grid breaks free, NOT pinning down Celtic's arms, yet he just sits there and gets killed.
::) gimme a freaking break.
I mean good God, at least the Aliens in AvP:R could move like they always have, across walls and with great speed and agility. But b/c the Predators in AvP were so fat, Scar couldn't even outrun Lex!!! Jesus...
Your argument is weak. Hunters usually admire their catch before they kill it, if the thing they are hunting is dying they don't immediately kill it before admiring it.
Grid is on him for six seconds, 3 of those are showing his inner mouth coming out in Celtic's mask to actually make the fight epic, the music helps emphasis this. The aliens in AVP-R were so retarded it makes Wolf look like the weakest Predator.
yeah, I'll admit, the death could have been done better. When hes pinned though, whats he gonna do? Hes out of weapons, he was screwed.
Oh, and Wolf taking of his armor for the predalien was stupid too. First, the thing just stands there while he does it. The predalien had just knocked the spear out of Wolfs hand, so Wolf figures it would be a good idea to put his entire mission at risk (as there are still aliens everywhere) to go hand to hand with a stronger creature that is basically a living weapon. Thats not honor, thats stupidity.
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:23:09 AM
yeah, I'll admit, the death could have been done better. When hes pinned though, whats he gonna do? Hes out of weapons, he was screwed.
Oh, and Wolf taking of his armor for the predalien was stupid too. First, the thing just stands there while he does it. The predalien had just knocked the spear out of Wolfs hand, so Wolf figures it would be a good idea to put his entire mission at risk (as there are still aliens everywhere) to go hand to hand with a stronger creature that is basically a living weapon. Thats not honor, thats stupidity.
When he was pinned, he could dodged the tongue or ripped it out. It worked for Wolf.
And on Wolf removing his weapons (he left his armour on), the mission was a wash at that point. My guess is, he probably figured "Let's make this a challenge" or something to that effect. Besides, he only lost his spear, he could have just as easily picked it up had he killed Chet.
I think he realized that without his caster shurikens and whip, he wouldn't stand much of a chance against this thing that keeps beating him up anyway. He knew he was going to die, so he decided to go out with a bang.
Yet another stupid reason to include another homage in Aliens Vs Predator: Homage.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 02:26:10 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:23:09 AM
yeah, I'll admit, the death could have been done better. When hes pinned though, whats he gonna do? Hes out of weapons, he was screwed.
Oh, and Wolf taking of his armor for the predalien was stupid too. First, the thing just stands there while he does it. The predalien had just knocked the spear out of Wolfs hand, so Wolf figures it would be a good idea to put his entire mission at risk (as there are still aliens everywhere) to go hand to hand with a stronger creature that is basically a living weapon. Thats not honor, thats stupidity.
When he was pinned, he could dodged the tongue or ripped it out. It worked for Wolf.
And on Wolf removing his weapons (he left his armour on), the mission was a wash at that point. My guess is, he probably figured "Let's make this a challenge" or something to that effect. Besides, he only lost his spear, he could have just as easily picked it up had he killed Chet.
It would have been a challenge for Celtic to get that inner jaw before it hit him as it was like 3-4 inches from him. Besides he would have died by being covered in acid (though thinking about that, that would have looked pretty badass.)
Wolf should have used his wrist bomb if the mission was a failure to ensure it was a success. That would have been honorable.
Compare Celtic to Wolf.
Were they alike AT ALL?
So why would they think alike? Celtic was too slow and dimwitted. Wolf had his wits about him.
I'm not even sure if Wolf had a wrist bomb. His gauntlet was all different. I don't think he expected to be a failure.
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:41:15 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 02:26:10 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:23:09 AM
yeah, I'll admit, the death could have been done better. When hes pinned though, whats he gonna do? Hes out of weapons, he was screwed.
Oh, and Wolf taking of his armor for the predalien was stupid too. First, the thing just stands there while he does it. The predalien had just knocked the spear out of Wolfs hand, so Wolf figures it would be a good idea to put his entire mission at risk (as there are still aliens everywhere) to go hand to hand with a stronger creature that is basically a living weapon. Thats not honor, thats stupidity.
When he was pinned, he could dodged the tongue or ripped it out. It worked for Wolf.
And on Wolf removing his weapons (he left his armour on), the mission was a wash at that point. My guess is, he probably figured "Let's make this a challenge" or something to that effect. Besides, he only lost his spear, he could have just as easily picked it up had he killed Chet.
It would have been a challenge for Celtic to get that inner jaw before it hit him as it was like 3-4 inches from him. Besides he would have died by being covered in acid (though thinking about that, that would have looked pretty badass.)
Wolf should have used his wrist bomb if the mission was a failure to ensure it was a success. That would have been honorable.
I dunno, he was still wearing one chest plate so his armour might've absorbed most of it and I gather he would've knocked Grid off pretty quickly before any serious damage would've occurred.
Wolf was in the middle of a fight, when was he going to set the bomb?
He would have been all kinds of f*cked up I think, if he lived (in that hed have some burns and his mask would probably be ruined)
He had time to take his armor off, he could have set the bomb in that time too, didn't look like Chet minded waiting.
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:51:06 AM
He would have been all kinds of f*cked up I think, if he lived (in that hed have some burns and his mask would probably be ruined)
The armour covered his entire body half, I doubt much of the acid would fall on his face.
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:51:06 AMHe had time to take his armor off, he could have set the bomb in that time too, didn't look like Chet minded waiting.
Fair enough.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 02:54:22 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:51:06 AM
He would have been all kinds of f*cked up I think, if he lived (in that hed have some burns and his mask would probably be ruined)
The armour covered his entire body half, I doubt much of the acid would fall on his face.
Does his armor have some kind of magnetic property that makes the acid attract to it? Of course his face would be hit.
Quote from: Craig on Mar 02, 2008, 02:56:47 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 02:54:22 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:51:06 AM
He would have been all kinds of f*cked up I think, if he lived (in that hed have some burns and his mask would probably be ruined)
The armour covered his entire body half, I doubt much of the acid would fall on his face.
Does his armor have some kind of magnetic property that makes the acid attract to it? Of course his face would be hit.
Like I said,
much acid. My guess is had Celtic ripped the tongue out, the same thing that happened to Chet would've happened to Grid, face would turn away from the force of the pull, then turned back.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 02:54:22 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:51:06 AM
He would have been all kinds of f*cked up I think, if he lived (in that hed have some burns and his mask would probably be ruined)
The armour covered his entire body half, I doubt much of the acid would fall on his face.
If he ripped out the jaw that was right in front of his face, even if he moved quickly I don't think he could avoid some splattering onto his face.
Remember ripley pulled put a iner jaw too, she dident get acid on her.
Quote from: chopperbuilder on Mar 02, 2008, 04:25:14 PM
Remember ripley pulled put a iner jaw too, she dident get acid on her.
It was dead.
There would still be acid in it.
Quote from: Private Hudson on Mar 02, 2008, 02:10:31 AM
^ He did it for honour dude, remember P1?
If 'honour' equates to 'egotistical pissing contest', yeah. :)
Quote from: chopperbuilder on Mar 02, 2008, 04:25:14 PM
Remember ripley pulled put a iner jaw too, she dident get acid on her.
Ripley 8 had immunity to acid.
Quote from: Private Hudson on Mar 02, 2008, 02:10:31 AM
^ He did it for honour dude, remember P1?
No he didn't. Predators are not honorable whatsoever. They are just cocky killers who get mad if they don't win.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 02, 2008, 06:37:40 PM
Quote from: Private Hudson on Mar 02, 2008, 02:10:31 AM
^ He did it for honour dude, remember P1?
If 'honour' equates to 'egotistical pissing contest', yeah. :)
Quote from: chopperbuilder on Mar 02, 2008, 04:25:14 PM
Remember ripley pulled put a iner jaw too, she dident get acid on her.
Ripley 8 had immunity to acid.
ohh but still, celtic could just turn the face away and then pulled the jaw out while pushing the alien away, insteed of just lieing on the floor doing nothing, and he couldent be forced to the floor by the aliens weight, he would easly push the alien away with the strength he had, its clearly that poul was more into aliens then predators.
Oh lord. Don't start with that again.
Anyway. One of the complaints I heard from people (and people that aren't fan boys) was that the Predator some how managed to not get any alien blood on him at all. Particularly the part where the alien got it's tongue ripped out.
And can I just say that I"m tired of the aliens tail being it's most formidable weapon. Seriously.
I thought acid would be all over wolf when he was in the sewers and was holding the aliens by the throat, then shot them both with his plasma casters.
Tell me if I'm way off base here. But this is concerning aliens fans vs. predator fans.
It's interesting to see how heated the "my monster is better than your monster" debates get. I have this idea that the fans of both aliens and predators connect with those characters in very profound way.
I get this impression that Predator fans (not all) are all about machismo. Now this is tapping high school histories. They may be into sports, were possibly jocks in school, and really hold "manliness" in high regard. Predators are super masculine.
The aliens fans I (maybe, and again, not all) are kind of the underdogs. Groups of kids pushed around back in high school The aliens are all skinny and waifish and yet are still super strong and can kick the asses of bigger guys.
So a fight between aliens and predators fans really becomes a fight between the haves and the have nots back in high school. Which is why they both get so offended when one gets the upper hand over the other (particularly when aliens get whooped, because it's high school all over again for the underdogs).
I also think that's why aliens fan get upset about the Predalien, because only becoming like the predator are aliens able to do some real damage. And that's the last thing aliens fan want to hear.
I am probably SO off base, but think it's really interesting to think about.
I guess I'm both there then, because I like them both equally.
Well it doesn't apply to everyone. And it certainly may not apply to anyone. But I think it helps explain why some fans take that kind of debate so very personally.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Mar 02, 2008, 07:49:20 PM
.
And can I just say that I"m tired of the aliens tail being it's most formidable weapon. Seriously.
well, that appendage, whether it's a tail or not, if they're going to make it a weapon, I wish they'd do something a bit alien or weird in a biomechanic way with it to make it an interesting weapon
Quote from: nchurch81 on Mar 02, 2008, 07:49:20 PM
And can I just say that I"m tired of the aliens tail being it's most formidable weapon. Seriously.
It was only their most formidable weapon in one movie ...
Well it's also what got predi-locks in AVPR.
Doesn't make it their most formidable weapon. That would be their tongues.
"predi-locks" :D
They used their inner mouths more than their tails.
I suppose you're right. Maybe it's just the those two particular attacks are are primarily what we see. I guess I wouldn't mind seeing a little more variety and creativity in the aliens onslaught.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 02:12:18 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:03:28 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 01:55:22 AM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 01:49:51 AM
They did make the point that he would be badass, but I was disappointed, as a pred fan, that they couldn't actually make him do some skilled elite, badass, hunting, but had to weaken his enemies to seem better.
But weakened in what way? The only reason I'm having a hard time digesting this argument is b/c IMO there were only two scenes where the Aliens were watered down: the sewer and the one above Dallas' head on the rooftop.
I mean, the Predators were watered down and made stupid in AvP, yet the same people complaining about the Aliens in AvP:R are the same people who say the Predators behaved perfectly in AvP ???
The preds in AvP were lame in their portrayal, but those kills by Grid we're okay, it was stupid to kill two in the same scene, though. As for how they fought, that wasn't nearly as bad as the aliens in AvP:R. One got killed from behind while distracted, one got killed from being cocky (like the preds fromt he original films).
Yet, the aliens in AvP:R don't attack or do anything to Wolf when they clearly can, and he knocks them around like they were nothing. I wouldn't care if he killed 100x as many aliens if he did it in a way that showed him as a badass elite hunter and got his kills in a way that didn't require weaker/stupider aliens.
I apologize if I seem arrogant here, but I just don't buy that argument: the Predators in AvP were cocky.
Gill, w/e, he was distracted, his problem. But Celtic? No freaking way.
He saw his blades go blunt after cutting off Grid's tail. He nets Grid, but for w/e reason, all of a sudden FORGETS THAT THE NET CUTS THROUGH THE PREY AND CAUSES THEM TO BLEED. So what does he do? He stands there, admires his work, casually strolls over, says to himself "Well looky at that..." pulls out the knife ever so slowly thinking "Now let's see, where does this go..."
Then Grid breaks free, NOT pinning down Celtic's arms, yet he just sits there and gets killed.
::) gimme a freaking break.
I mean good God, at least the Aliens in AvP:R could move like they always have, across walls and with great speed and agility. But b/c the Predators in AvP were so fat, Scar couldn't even outrun Lex!!! Jesus...
;D to much fat thats why LEX outran scar :o
Quote from: chopperbuilder on Mar 02, 2008, 05:41:07 PM
There would still be acid in it.
The acid nulls after a while if its dead or the acid falls out.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 02:12:18 AM
He saw his blades go blunt after cutting off Grid's tail. He nets Grid, but for w/e reason, all of a sudden FORGETS THAT THE NET CUTS THROUGH THE PREY AND CAUSES THEM TO BLEED. So what does he do? He stands there, admires his work, casually strolls over, says to himself "Well looky at that..." pulls out the knife ever so slowly thinking "Now let's see, where does this go..."
Then Grid breaks free, NOT pinning down Celtic's arms, yet he just sits there and gets killed.
gimme a freaking break.
i dont see what your objection is. the urban hunter did the same thing to danny glover... standing there, admiring his work, saying to himself "Well looky at that..." cracking his knuckles "Now let's see, where does this go..." then danny glover kills him.
i dont hear you complaining about that.
and btw the aliens in avp-r literally just fell over whenever wolf touched them or they just stood there not fighting so he could kill them. it was easily far worse then anything the pred fans say happened to the preds in avp.
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 03, 2008, 05:20:33 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 02, 2008, 02:12:18 AM
He saw his blades go blunt after cutting off Grid's tail. He nets Grid, but for w/e reason, all of a sudden FORGETS THAT THE NET CUTS THROUGH THE PREY AND CAUSES THEM TO BLEED. So what does he do? He stands there, admires his work, casually strolls over, says to himself "Well looky at that..." pulls out the knife ever so slowly thinking "Now let's see, where does this go..."
Then Grid breaks free, NOT pinning down Celtic's arms, yet he just sits there and gets killed.
gimme a freaking break.
i dont see what your objection is. the urban hunter did the same thing to danny glover... standing there, admiring his work, saying to himself "Well looky at that..." cracking his knuckles "Now let's see, where does this go..." then danny glover kills him.
i dont hear you complaining about that.
and btw the aliens in avp-r literally just fell over whenever wolf touched them or they just stood there not fighting so he could kill them. it was easily far worse then anything the pred fans say happened to the preds in avp.
Glover took advantage of a genuine weakness. He had a shot and he took it. Pussyface was in too much pain to fight back. Celtic however COULD'VE fought back but chose not to.
Fought back what? The Alien was tied up in the net.
Quote from: SM on Mar 03, 2008, 05:49:04 AM
Fought back what? The Alien was tied up in the net.
It did break free you know.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 03, 2008, 05:59:17 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 03, 2008, 05:49:04 AM
Fought back what? The Alien was tied up in the net.
It did break free you know.
and it pinned him and head bit him. also the whole scene was filmed with a healthy dose of slow motion so it seemed longer then it was.
QuoteIt did break free you know.
And next in great pointless posts...
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 03, 2008, 05:59:17 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 03, 2008, 05:49:04 AM
Fought back what? The Alien was tied up in the net.
It did break free you know.
You just proved yourself wrong.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 03, 2008, 05:35:27 AM
Glover took advantage of a genuine weakness. He had a shot and he took it. Pussyface was in too much pain to fight back. Celtic however COULD'VE fought back but chose not to.
An Alien is a heck of a lot stronger than Harrigan ever was.
The second film's Predator was still very physically capable. In fact, it's a wonder that last sparring match didn't have the guy cut to ribbons, giving him only a light couple of streaks across the face. The music really worked wonders to suspend a willing sense of disbelief.
We could say it
could have very easily taken ahold of the guy's hand, at wrist, stopping him from continuing to cut in, instead of just flail. That, however, would not have suited the conclusion very well.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Mar 02, 2008, 08:15:15 PM
Tell me if I'm way off base here. But this is concerning aliens fans vs. predator fans.
It's interesting to see how heated the "my monster is better than your monster" debates get. I have this idea that the fans of both aliens and predators connect with those characters in very profound way.
I get this impression that Predator fans (not all) are all about machismo. Now this is tapping high school histories. They may be into sports, were possibly jocks in school, and really hold "manliness" in high regard. Predators are super masculine.
The aliens fans I (maybe, and again, not all) are kind of the underdogs. Groups of kids pushed around back in high school The aliens are all skinny and waifish and yet are still super strong and can kick the asses of bigger guys.
So a fight between aliens and predators fans really becomes a fight between the haves and the have nots back in high school. Which is why they both get so offended when one gets the upper hand over the other (particularly when aliens get whooped, because it's high school all over again for the underdogs).
I also think that's why aliens fan get upset about the Predalien, because only becoming like the predator are aliens able to do some real damage. And that's the last thing aliens fan want to hear.
I am probably SO off base, but think it's really interesting to think about.
First of all, im a predfan, why well because the pred has a special charatar i think is interstring, he both think and kills, the alien are more a ruthless killer, for an alinen its forwarth and kill every thing in its way, that why i think the pred. is better he thinks before he kills, thats why i like the pred more then the alien, another thing is the design, the nature there is alot more to the pred (in my eyes, its a matter of taste i know) then the alien.
about the school thingy it dosent add up for me, i wasent a geek neither a bully in school i was more of a loner, did what i wanted not giving a f*** about what other did or thought about me and the people i talked to.
Quote from: nchurch81 on Mar 02, 2008, 08:15:15 PM
Tell me if I'm way off base here. But this is concerning aliens fans vs. predator fans.
It's interesting to see how heated the "my monster is better than your monster" debates get. I have this idea that the fans of both aliens and predators connect with those characters in very profound way.
I get this impression that Predator fans (not all) are all about machismo. Now this is tapping high school histories. They may be into sports, were possibly jocks in school, and really hold "manliness" in high regard. Predators are super masculine.
The aliens fans I (maybe, and again, not all) are kind of the underdogs. Groups of kids pushed around back in high school The aliens are all skinny and waifish and yet are still super strong and can kick the asses of bigger guys.
So a fight between aliens and predators fans really becomes a fight between the haves and the have nots back in high school. Which is why they both get so offended when one gets the upper hand over the other (particularly when aliens get whooped, because it's high school all over again for the underdogs).
I also think that's why aliens fan get upset about the Predalien, because only becoming like the predator are aliens able to do some real damage. And that's the last thing aliens fan want to hear.
I am probably SO off base, but think it's really interesting to think about.
I'm a Predator fan not just b/c it's a badass, but b/c there's an interesting creature to learn about in so far as to how their culture of hunting works and such. I like the idea of a "Yautja ladder", and blooding rituals and such.
I like the Aliens purely and simply b/c they're living weapons and can scare a person shitless. But beyond that...to me, they're just mindless bugs.
If I had to choose b/w the two, I'll take the Predator any day of the week over an Alien.
I liked the way God (Wolf) was getting owned.
Thanks guys for responding to my post. Like I said, it's just and idea, so it's cool if I'm off base.
Chopper... though I see where you're coming from a little bit, and maybe I misread your post. It seems like you see the predator as kind of a hero figure. Am I off base again?
Quote from: nchurch81 on Mar 03, 2008, 07:15:31 PM
Thanks guys for responding to my post. Like I said, it's just and idea, so it's cool if I'm off base.
Chopper... though I see where you're coming from a little bit, and maybe I misread your post. It seems like you see the predator as kind of a hero figure. Am I off base again?
Yes :) i just think his more interesting then the alien, his so much more then the alien, meaning his culture, his essence, his hole personalty, he has so many fact that center him and makes him a hole lot more interesting then the alien, im not saying that i dont like the alien, its just...the predator has a bigger universe then the alien.
and if you have seen any of my other post, i keep saying that the pred should survive the movie, its just because im tired of seeing him die all the time, you cant build on them/him because they keep killing him/them, just like tusk you grow fond of him, but at the end he dies, its abit like seening a john wayne movie where they keep killing him every time.
haha no kidding, but i agree.. the predator universe has way more to offer than the alien, but you do relize that if the pred kept living , it would be the end of the humans everyone knows the predator could kick a humans ass. so thats why they make him die, if he lived then we die.
We are far more f*cked if the aliens survive and thrive... at least the preds just hunt for a bit and go home, aliens kill everything indiscriminately.
Quotethe predator universe has way more to offer than the alien
2 Predator films vs. 4 Alien films and the Predators continuing popularity solely relying on Alien, says 'no'.
Quote from: SM on Mar 03, 2008, 11:11:58 PM
Quotethe predator universe has way more to offer than the alien
2 Predator films vs. 4 Alien films and the Predators continuing popularity solely relying on Alien, says 'no'.
What's your point? The Aliens may be more popular, but that doesn't mean it's a deeper creature.
I think the wads been shot on the alien universe, theres not much else they can do with them beyond a hive planet. (too crass?)
I think the preds do offer more at this point, with their culture and such..... not that I'd like to see any of it in films.
Quote from: Purebreedalien on Mar 03, 2008, 06:19:44 PM
I liked the way God (Wolf) was getting owned.
Your so funny... ::) ::) ::)
QuoteWhat's your point? The Aliens may be more popular, but that doesn't mean it's a deeper creature.
Popularity = more to offer to viewers.
Quote from: SM on Mar 04, 2008, 12:32:11 AM
QuoteWhat's your point? The Aliens may be more popular, but that doesn't mean it's a deeper creature.
Popularity = more to offer to viewers.
How do you figure? I'm talking about the creature itself. How much more can the Alien offer outside discovering its origins?
QuoteHow do you figure?
See above. 4 films vs. 2. You might think Predator has more to offer. The average punter thinks otherwise.
Quote from: SM on Mar 04, 2008, 01:11:36 AM
QuoteHow do you figure?
See above. 4 films vs. 2. You might think Predator has more to offer. The average punter thinks otherwise.
We're arguing two different things here. You're saying the Alien has more to offer by virtue of its popularity. I'm saying the Predator has more to offer b/c it's a deeper creature.
Mebbe. Obviously people simply don't care. And I agree with them.
The average punter doesn't know how many alien and predator films there are on the back of his hand.
Quote from: SM on Mar 04, 2008, 01:11:36 AM
QuoteHow do you figure?
See above. 4 films vs. 2. You might think Predator has more to offer. The average punter thinks otherwise.
well, I think that both the alien and the predator used to have something to offer, but these years, I don't think so so much, or not as far as the last few movies have shown
QuoteThe average punter doesn't know how many alien and predator films there are on the back of his hand.
Not seeing the relevance.
Quote from: wmmvrrvrrmm on Mar 04, 2008, 02:33:17 AM
Quote from: SM on Mar 04, 2008, 01:11:36 AM
QuoteHow do you figure?
See above. 4 films vs. 2. You might think Predator has more to offer. The average punter thinks otherwise.
well, I think that both the alien and the predator used to have something to offer, but these years, I don't think so so much, or not as far as the last few movies have shown
This is what I see coming from either franchise at this point:
Aliens - origins
Predator - Bad Blood(s), origins, blooding ritual (done properly, not AvP again), homeworld invasion (or something like that)
At least.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 04, 2008, 05:01:36 AMAliens - origins
And hybrids, egg-morphing, queen facehuggers, etc. Since your bringing the EU into this, you might as well say that royal jelly is another topic (though I never want to see it). This is a creature of mystery. Exploring the origin is just a fraction of what you could do with the xenomorph.
QuoteBad Blood(s)
A question- why? So I can see AVPVP someday, or a Predator 3 that's spent with more creature fighting and less...I dunno...storyline?
Quoteorigins
Why would anyone want to know this? We know a Predator homeworld exists. That's enough.
That's all I need...another Italian super-sleuth deciphering some heiroglyphs on the homeworld and finding out that the Predator descended from Earth's dinosaurs or something stupid like that.
Quoteblooding ritual (done properly, not AvP again)
The whole concept is flawed, but I think AVP did a fine job with the blooding concept. Plus, it'd be nothing new. That's hardly something that could compete with the xenomorph's origin.
Quotehomeworld invasion (or something like that)
Well, I'll give you this. I'd be okay with seeing this. Stil don't see how this compares to a massive answer to the questions behind an award-winning monster, but it'd be nice for a third film.
i agree. invasion of the pred homeworld sounds good.
Not that this has much to do with this thread anymore but I'm going to throw in my two cents.
I'm going to say that there are more things to explore other than the aliens origins. Just because you haven't thought of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But lots of territory won't get explored because fans are terrified of change. Here's why. The preds have tech and culture. We can explore all kinds of aspects of these things without altering the fundamental creature itself. The aliens have their biology and behavior. If you alter these too much you completely change the creature itself.
So I agree there are lots of aspects of the predator to explore. But I don't think the aliens are dried up either.
Quote from: UltimateHunter on Mar 03, 2008, 09:05:05 PM
haha no kidding, but i agree.. the predator universe has way more to offer than the alien, but you do relize that if the pred kept living , it would be the end of the humans everyone knows the predator could kick a humans ass. so thats why they make him die, if he lived then we die.
you seen the story with tusk? where he gets killed by the queen at the end? and after that the human that helps him gets a scar in the forhead, and next time he meets the preds, they fight on the same side, it would be cool to see such story, but insteed the main pred fights with a special human, against..well who knows :) so in that way they arent fully killers, they have honor and if a human gets that honour then they could fight sids by side, and you could relate to the main pred, and keep building on that consept, ( build figures, write storyes and so on)
maybe to see the ancient pred from avp, to see something like that story where he survives the manhood and makes it to the end, and we could set back on the cinama then think wow he was one bad ass pred :)abd he made it from the start to the end of the movie, now that would be awsome to see. :D yes im a pure pred fan and damn pround of it he he ;) again because the pred has so much to offer, much more then the alien.
we know, well i know, that the alien was build by a nother alien race to be used as a killing mashine, maybe with gene manipulation, and i know that the alien lives in a hive like an ant with one queen, the only prupose is like an ant get food to the queen, gets hosts for more aliens to come alive, and so on, but the pred. has so more to offer it has tribs, honour, social behavior, rules, socity, rangs, you can build so much more on the pred. maybe im saying this because im a pred fan, and dont know so much about the alien, and another thing heh the pred design is better then the alien he he ( i know its a matter of taste) some like preds some like aliens, cant we all just get along??...... and admit that the pred is better :D(joke) :D
Quote from: The Chibi Kiriyama on Mar 04, 2008, 09:26:00 AM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 04, 2008, 05:01:36 AMAliens - origins
And hybrids, egg-morphing, queen facehuggers, etc. Since your bringing the EU into this, you might as well say that royal jelly is another topic (though I never want to see it). This is a creature of mystery. Exploring the origin is just a fraction of what you could do with the xenomorph.
Egg-morphing?
I could see a film possibly being made out of Queen facehuggers, but in a way, that ties back into origins b/c the Queen is the starting for the Aliens.
true. . that would be a little weird tho wouldnt it ? cuz the queen is a morph from the drone .. rite? or am i mixing that up with a story?
I think you might be.
I'm an Alien fan because they are deeper than Predators, all a Predator does is kill, skin, and take skull, thats all. An alien, it doesn't kill anything and everything it sees from miles away, they killed people when they are close to the hive, or feel threatened. What does a Pred do? "Ohh, look at that human hundreds of miles away, lets go kill him!!"
Quote from: Private Hudson on Mar 04, 2008, 10:35:23 PM
I'm an Alien fan because they are deeper than Predators, all a Predator does is kill, skin, and take skull, thats all. An alien, it doesn't kill anything and everything it sees from miles away, they killed people when they are close to the hive, or feel threatened. What does a Pred do? "Ohh, look at that human hundreds of miles away, lets go kill him!!"
You don't very much about a Predator's MO if you believe that's how they act. They will only kill a human if they feel it's worthy prey.
Anyone carrying a gun is 'worthy prey'?
And anyone wielding a big knife that is either on a log or a train.
Here it comes, the 'my monster is better than your monster' debate.
No need to debate when one already knows the Alien is better.
You see? You see? ::)
Quote from: SM on Mar 04, 2008, 10:46:31 PM
Anyone carrying a gun is 'worthy prey'?
No. The Predator discriminates who it kills that way.
Example: in Predator 2, he didn't kill the kid b/c he was only holding a toy. He'll only kill you if you
use the weapon against him. And he can designate who's worthy prey in terms of how much power they wield. Best example I can think of is in the first Batman vs. Predator graphic novel in which the Predator targets the police chief and champion boxer b/c they command respect from others.
Is Batman vs. Predator cannon anyway?
Quote from: Private Hudson on Mar 05, 2008, 12:53:43 AM
Is Batman vs. Predator cannon anyway?
The movies are canon. The movies are canon. The movies are canon.
"But Batman vs. Predator is a movie!"No. It's a fan-film. It wasn't released to theaters.
Quote from: Private Hudson on Mar 05, 2008, 12:53:43 AM
Is Batman vs. Predator cannon anyway?
Might be; to the best of my knowledge, literature usually is considered as such. But even if it isn't the Predator is still properly portrayed.
QuoteNo. It's a fan-film. It wasn't released to theaters.
You mean Batman : Dead End?
Theatrical release doesn't mean anything - it's simply unlicensed. Ergo not canon for Batman; not canon for Alien.
Just because it isn't canon doesn't mean it has such bad ideas.
And the comic is canon for Batman. It is acknowledged in later issues.
People, I was referring to Batman vs. Predator DC graphic novel #1, not the fan film.
Oh OK.
QuoteJust because it isn't canon doesn't mean it has such bad ideas.
Don't recall anyone mentioning quality.
It's just that whenever an idea from the EU is brought up, people just say 'It's not canon' without considering if it's a good idea or not.
Most times they aren't, though.
Some times they are.
Quote from: Alienseseses on Mar 05, 2008, 03:27:10 AM
It's just that whenever an idea from the EU is brought up, people just say 'It's not canon' without considering if it's a good idea or not.
Its mostly because people use it to support arguments that have no real basis in the films.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 05, 2008, 03:29:40 AM
Most times they aren't, though.
They also say it because of that. They're mostly pretty awful ideas (IMO). Very few are decent.
What's EU?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 05, 2008, 04:22:11 AM
What's EU?
Expanded
Universe
Anything thats not in the movies is considered EU and non-canon
Ahh, gotcha! Thanks.
But even still, aren't comics considered canon in some ways?
Not in any way shape or form.
Ideas can be drawn from them, but they hold no merit as evidence in an argument (no more than if you or I just made something up and started passing it off as a supporting fact)
There's no official standing from Fox as to what is and isn't canon. Most fans don't consider stuff form the comics canonical.
What? No Deadliest of the Species proselytizing?
Quote from: Xhan on Mar 05, 2008, 06:39:53 AM
What? No Deadliest of the Species proselytizing?
Any Alien\Predator\AvP comic book is ripped version only, IMHO. Original ideas have ripped especially for comic book format. ::)
I'm being pedantic, RP.
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 05, 2008, 04:29:00 AM
Not in any way shape or form.
Ideas can be drawn from them, but they hold no merit as evidence in an argument (no more than if you or I just made something up and started passing it off as a supporting fact)
One could make the argument that they could be considered canon in some ways though b/c they're based off of the movie material.
Define cannons?? cannons for me is fact that sounds most reasonable, facts that i heard more then 1 time.
Canon - established continuity. Wherever the material originates from initially is considered canon. In this case, the films are canon b/c they came first.
What i said then :)
Not exactly; you said canon is what's considered most reasonable. That isn't always the case.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 05, 2008, 05:29:42 PM
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 05, 2008, 04:29:00 AM
Not in any way shape or form.
Ideas can be drawn from them, but they hold no merit as evidence in an argument (no more than if you or I just made something up and started passing it off as a supporting fact)
One could make the argument that they could be considered canon in some ways though b/c they're based off of the movie material.
One could make that argument, but one would be wrong. The films are the only source of canon material, everything else is theory or just plain wrong (as many comics contradict the movies and even each other)
Then if a diractor made a movie where the aliens had 4 arms then it would be cannon?
im sticking to what i said before.
Depends on the rest of the movie.
There is no spoon.
Every person takes what they consider canon and makes it canon.
The vast majority of fans don't take the comics as canon, because they contradict themselves, (Genocide, Labrynth, Destroying Angel ) and in many cases are completely contradicted by the movies. (Spears, Herc Mondo, Earth Angel, ALIENS II - I,II,III, Colonial Marines)
so then the books are wrong ? and movies are rite?
Quote from: UltimateHunter on Mar 05, 2008, 09:03:38 PM
so then the books are wrong ? and movies are rite?
Well, the books aren't considered canon, but some are fun to read.
ill agree with you 0n that one
now im confused, WHAT DOES CANNON MEAN?
Quote from: gangstapred on Mar 05, 2008, 11:09:05 PM
now im confused, WHAT DOES CANNON MEAN?
Movies, movies are cannon, books, and comics are not.
Nope, you're wrong. Cannon is a mounted gun for firing heavy projectiles; a gun, howitzer, or mortar. :P
Quote from: Master Chief on Mar 05, 2008, 11:12:07 PM
Nope, you're wrong. Cannon is a mounted gun for firing heavy projectiles; a gun, howitzer, or mortar. :P
.......
:D
The word is canon.
:D
Quoteso then the books are wrong ? and movies are rite?
Please read the last pages worth of posts again and you'll have your answer.
You can shoot the canon out of a cannon, but can you shoot the cannon out of a canon?
Cannons are tough.
But canons are tougher ;D
Quote from: Master Chief on Mar 05, 2008, 11:12:07 PM
Nope, you're wrong. Cannon is a mounted gun for firing heavy projectiles; a gun, howitzer, or mortar. :P
Ha ha sorry my bad..canon then :)
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 19, 2008, 06:02:48 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 19, 2008, 03:15:53 PM
in Predator, it survived a full barrage of 7.67mm bullets from Mac's machinegun
well, first off it was only hit once. in the leg. you make it sound as if it was riddled with bullets.
Quote
in Predator, it was still alive after having a tree dropped on its head
this is true, but it didnt look like the predator was going to survive from that injury.
Quotein Predator 2, it also took liquid nitrogen to the head an body
true, but it wasnt hit point blank like the alien in A:R was. but still its very impressive for the predator.
Quotein Predator 2, it had its arm cut off and was still standing tall
very impressive. although we have seen aliens lose limbs and continue fighting also.
Quotein Predator 2, it survived 10 direct hits from Harrigan's shotgun
it was not 10. some of the shots hit armor others missed. i believe the acurate hit count is 5-6 but i'm not 100% sure.
Quotein AvP, it got Grid's tail thru its arm and was still walking hard (yes I know the same thing happened to Ricky in AvP:R, but he could barely walk afterwards)
in AvP:R, it was knocked off a platform, fell something like 15-20 feet, had a spike go thru its leg, and still ran off
again very impressive. but i feel that the evidence shows that aliens are still more durable. if you look at the alien that was hit by the plasma blast after it had been shot by machine gun and pistol fire you can see that it was back in motion seconds after being shot. it then gets put down for good after the handgun unloads on its face.
Compare the falling log, to a multi-ton powerloader falling 20ft and landing on the Queen in A2, when she pulled it down with her as Ripley attempted to drop her into the airlock, and other than being pinned the Queen was still kicking, AND she was not even bleeding. Not enough to put a hole in the airlock anyway.
Had a loader like that fell on a Pred it would have turned him into glowing green paste, seeing that he was dying after having a "log" dropped on him from 20ft.
QuoteCompare the falling log, to a multi-ton powerloader falling 20ft and landing on the Queen in A2, when she pulled it down with her as Ripley attempted to drop her into the airlock, and other than being pinned the Queen was still kicking, AND she was not even bleeding. Not enough to put a hole in the airlock anyway.
Had a loader like that fell on a Pred it would have turned him into glowing green paste, seeing that he was dying after having a "log" dropped on him from 20ft.
think abut it, your comparing a humanoid creature to an alien thats nearly the size of a t-rex, aliens have exo-skeletons preds dont....
ya dude . preds are really only like super humans if you get down to it .
@Meathead...you're comparing the Queen to a Predator ???
meathead, what do you expect, the predator to still get up and walk away after a hit like that
The Queen is larger than the regular aliens are, but there is little evidence she is made of anything any more durable than the others.
Pound for pound she is the similar in strength and durability. She is a little slower however.
Quote from: Silver Surfer on Mar 07, 2008, 09:07:43 AM
think abut it, your comparing a humanoid creature to an alien thats nearly the size of a t-rex, aliens have exo-skeletons preds dont....
Yes, similar to the queen, scaled down to 1/10th size.
When I say size I mean total volume. The Queen is more robust, especially in her torso, and as her measurements, height and length, are at least 200% that of regular alien. Her total volume is at least 8x, but due to her shape also being more robust, she would be 10x the volume, and 10x the mass if she is made of the same substances.
Anyway, you could do the math, and compare the distance of the fall, and scale down her size, and the object landing on her, and the density of the metal loader, and at 1/10th, it is still more than the impact that the predator took with the log.
AND she was hardly bleeding (as that would have quickly ate through the hull), she was only pinned.
If Ripley would have made a "bad judgment call", and went to go get a cup of coffee for 30 minutes, likely the Queen would have gotten out relatively quickly on her own.
Anyway, I am comparing the only known example I can think of, of an Alien having an object around its own size dropped on it, and the only example just happens to be the Queen, with the loader falling on her, in A2.
If you can think of a closer example to the log on the Pred, of a regular Alien, then please post it and the result.
good comparison. 8)
The queen from AVP was on predator roids to beef her up. For all we know the queen from Aliens is as big as they get.
Quote from: Weasel on Mar 10, 2008, 11:52:45 PM
The queen from AVP was on predator roids to beef her up. For all we know the queen from Aliens is as been as they get.
The Predators were on Predator roids, nvm the Queen :P
There could have been so much more ass kicking.
Wolf and Chet should have beaten each other brutaly.
It was more of a shoving match.
Quote from: Weasel on Mar 10, 2008, 11:52:45 PM
The queen from AVP was on predator roids to beef her up. For all we know the queen from Aliens is as big as they get.
if youre being serious, where does it show this in the movie.
It doesn't, Paul W.S. Anderson said that. It was his explanation on why the aliens grew so fast.
Quote from: Master Chief on Mar 11, 2008, 02:20:59 PM
It doesn't, Paul W.S. Anderson said that. It was his explanation on why the aliens grew so fast.
I wouldn't take his word for it since this is the guy who somehow made the claim that the Predators in P1 and P2 were kids.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: Master Chief on Mar 11, 2008, 02:20:59 PM
It doesn't, Paul W.S. Anderson said that. It was his explanation on why the aliens grew so fast.
I wouldn't take his word for it since this is the guy who somehow made the claim that the Predators in P1 and P2 were kids.
the thomas bros agree with him.
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 11, 2008, 03:17:05 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: Master Chief on Mar 11, 2008, 02:20:59 PM
It doesn't, Paul W.S. Anderson said that. It was his explanation on why the aliens grew so fast.
I wouldn't take his word for it since this is the guy who somehow made the claim that the Predators in P1 and P2 were kids.
the thomas bros agree with him.
HUH!?!?!? :o Ok, that's news to me.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 03:33:38 PM
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 11, 2008, 03:17:05 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: Master Chief on Mar 11, 2008, 02:20:59 PM
It doesn't, Paul W.S. Anderson said that. It was his explanation on why the aliens grew so fast.
I wouldn't take his word for it since this is the guy who somehow made the claim that the Predators in P1 and P2 were kids.
the thomas bros agree with him.
HUH!?!?!? :o Ok, that's news to me.
its in the commentary for predator 2.
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 11, 2008, 04:33:24 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 03:33:38 PM
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 11, 2008, 03:17:05 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: Master Chief on Mar 11, 2008, 02:20:59 PM
It doesn't, Paul W.S. Anderson said that. It was his explanation on why the aliens grew so fast.
I wouldn't take his word for it since this is the guy who somehow made the claim that the Predators in P1 and P2 were kids.
the thomas bros agree with him.
HUH!?!?!? :o Ok, that's news to me.
its in the commentary for predator 2.
That's retarded. What's the reasoning for those Preds being kids?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 04:39:34 PM
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 11, 2008, 04:33:24 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 03:33:38 PM
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 11, 2008, 03:17:05 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: Master Chief on Mar 11, 2008, 02:20:59 PM
It doesn't, Paul W.S. Anderson said that. It was his explanation on why the aliens grew so fast.
I wouldn't take his word for it since this is the guy who somehow made the claim that the Predators in P1 and P2 were kids.
the thomas bros agree with him.
HUH!?!?!? :o Ok, that's news to me.
its in the commentary for predator 2.
That's retarded. What's the reasoning for those Preds being kids?
they said that the idea is that when they (preds) are young they do these solo hunts, and when they get older and more experienced they start hunting in groups.
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 11, 2008, 04:44:05 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 04:39:34 PM
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 11, 2008, 04:33:24 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 03:33:38 PM
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 11, 2008, 03:17:05 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 11, 2008, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: Master Chief on Mar 11, 2008, 02:20:59 PM
It doesn't, Paul W.S. Anderson said that. It was his explanation on why the aliens grew so fast.
I wouldn't take his word for it since this is the guy who somehow made the claim that the Predators in P1 and P2 were kids.
the thomas bros agree with him.
HUH!?!?!? :o Ok, that's news to me.
its in the commentary for predator 2.
That's retarded. What's the reasoning for those Preds being kids?
they said that the idea is that when they (preds) are young they do these solo hunts, and when they get older and more experienced they start hunting in groups.
That's odd, you'd think the more experienced a Predator, the more solo hunting trips they'd do. Groups would make sense if they were n00bs, that way backup is present if needed.
I don't remember PWA saying that they hunt in groups when they were older. What I remember is him saying the original ones we're like kids, and the ones in his movie were like teenagers going through the ritual. I don't think he meant it literally. He was just using a simile to give some context to where his preds stood when compared to the previous ones seen (ie: that they were more skilled and the best of the best).
i thought it was they were just earning there man hood by completing hunts .. not that they were kids. thats kinda gay..
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 11, 2008, 06:49:52 PM
I don't remember PWA saying that they hunt in groups when they were older. What I remember is him saying the original ones we're like kids, and the ones in his movie were like teenagers going through the ritual. I don't think he meant it literally. He was just using a simile to give some context to where his preds stood when compared to the previous ones seen (ie: that they were more skilled and the best of the best).
Which is why Anytime and Pussyface fared much better than Scar, Celtic, and Gill combined ::)
at least better than Gill, Idk about Scar and Celtic
Pussyface lost to Harrigan (though he did only have one arm) in much the same way Celtic lost to Grid.
And Scar did pretty good for himself.
but look at the skill level ... to be honest it could be even .. but idk cuz scar and celtic and gill prbly were more traind to deal with the aliens . ... but idk thats just me
Quote from: UltimateHunter on Mar 11, 2008, 08:12:11 PM
...but idk cuz scar and celtic and gill prbly were more traind to deal with the aliens . ... but idk thats just me
Do you honestly believe that the 3 Predators you've mentioned were trained to deal with aliens?
why not .???
Because the condition of the Predators seemed to lack the education, instruction, or discipline of any kind to deal with an Alien.
Why do you think they were trained?
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 11, 2008, 08:08:53 PM
at least better than Gill, Idk about Scar and Celtic
Pussyface lost to Harrigan (though he did only have one arm) in much the same way Celtic lost to Grid.
And Scar did pretty good for himself.
Pussyface beat Harrigan up pretty good though. Why does everyone seem to be bothered by Harrigan killing PF anyway?
you tellen me that scar, celtic, and chopper were trained to deal with aliens, I think someone need to watch that movie AGAIN. I think the predators from P1 and P2 would have gave a better fight. Celtic gave a decent fight but by him being so DAMM FAT he ran out of energy and let grid headbite him. >:( NOW on the other hand wolf is slim so that allows him to... You've seen the movie. :o
Celtic only got beat because of his overconfidence and use of brute strength over technique.He didnt land a killing blow and took his time and got caught.
QuoteCeltic gave a decent fight but by him being so DAMM FAT
i think it was his weight adantage that allowed him to take grid blows...
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 11, 2008, 06:49:52 PM
I don't remember PWA saying that they hunt in groups when they were older. What I remember is him saying the original ones we're like kids, and the ones in his movie were like teenagers going through the ritual. I don't think he meant it literally. He was just using a simile to give some context to where his preds stood when compared to the previous ones seen (ie: that they were more skilled and the best of the best).
PWA didnt say that, the thomas bros said it in the P2 commentary.
Quote from: Silver Surfer on Mar 12, 2008, 10:25:38 AM
QuoteCeltic gave a decent fight but by him being so DAMM FAT
i think it was his weight adantage that allowed him to take grid blows...
Wolf was half of Celtic's size and he took several beatings from Chet who was much bigger than Grid.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 12, 2008, 03:16:02 PM
Quote from: Silver Surfer on Mar 12, 2008, 10:25:38 AM
QuoteCeltic gave a decent fight but by him being so DAMM FAT
i think it was his weight adantage that allowed him to take grid blows...
Wolf was half of Celtic's size and he took several beatings from Chet who was much bigger than Grid.
chet wasnt that much bigger than Grid. six inches taller about i'd say.
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 12, 2008, 03:19:46 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 12, 2008, 03:16:02 PM
Quote from: Silver Surfer on Mar 12, 2008, 10:25:38 AM
QuoteCeltic gave a decent fight but by him being so DAMM FAT
i think it was his weight adantage that allowed him to take grid blows...
Wolf was half of Celtic's size and he took several beatings from Chet who was much bigger than Grid.
chet wasnt that much bigger than Grid. six inches taller about i'd say.
She was much stronger though. Don't forget Chet had Predator DNA.
Chet was supposed to be around 9-10ft tall. Of course this translated terribly in the movie because you had a suit that was built with proportions to accomodate a 6ft actor.
yeah predaliens will/should always be stronger than human born aliens.
they will. i dont think youd have to worry about that .
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Mar 12, 2008, 03:27:07 PM
Chet was supposed to be around 9-10ft tall. Of course this translated terribly in the movie because you had a suit that was built with proportions to accomodate a 6ft actor.
Well how many actors or people in general have you heard of that are 9-10 ft tall? :P
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 12, 2008, 03:24:53 PM
Quote from: marrerom on Mar 12, 2008, 03:19:46 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Mar 12, 2008, 03:16:02 PM
Quote from: Silver Surfer on Mar 12, 2008, 10:25:38 AM
QuoteCeltic gave a decent fight but by him being so DAMM FAT
i think it was his weight adantage that allowed him to take grid blows...
Wolf was half of Celtic's size and he took several beatings from Chet who was much bigger than Grid.
chet wasnt that much bigger than Grid. six inches taller about i'd say.
She was much stronger though. Don't forget Chet had Predator DNA.
That's completely BS, has zero basis in the movies, common sense or science.
QuoteWell how many actors or people in general have you heard of that are 9-10 ft tall?
If they could find a 7ft-ish actor for the Predator I don't see why they couldn't find a taller actor for the Predalien, or regular Alien for that matter. Woodruff Jnr. just hasn't done the creature justice since Alien 3.
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Mar 12, 2008, 09:08:02 PM
QuoteWell how many actors or people in general have you heard of that are 9-10 ft tall?
If they could find a 7ft-ish actor for the Predator I don't see why they couldn't find a taller actor for the Predalien, or regular Alien for that matter. Woodruff Jnr. just hasn't done the creature justice since Alien 3.
7ft is rare, nvm mind 9-10.
are you kidding me, theres no person on this earth 9-10ft tall. The clostest we can get is barely 8ft. >:(
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Mar 12, 2008, 09:08:02 PM
QuoteWell how many actors or people in general have you heard of that are 9-10 ft tall?
If they could find a 7ft-ish actor for the Predator I don't see why they couldn't find a taller actor for the Predalien, or regular Alien for that matter. Woodruff Jnr. just hasn't done the creature justice since Alien 3.
Claustrophobias puts a lot of people off. Anderson couldn't find three 7-ft guys for the predators so he just changed the angles and such to give the allusion they are taller, Scar was always further back from what i remember.
Quote from: Craig on Mar 13, 2008, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: Porkus Maximus on Mar 12, 2008, 09:08:02 PM
QuoteWell how many actors or people in general have you heard of that are 9-10 ft tall?
If they could find a 7ft-ish actor for the Predator I don't see why they couldn't find a taller actor for the Predalien, or regular Alien for that matter. Woodruff Jnr. just hasn't done the creature justice since Alien 3.
Claustrophobias puts a lot of people off. Anderson couldn't find three 7-ft guys for the predators so he just changed the angles and such to give the allusion they are taller, Scar was always further back from what i remember.
That might explain why he beefed them up so much. Still didn't work though.
maybe worked for a little while
Quote from: Eidotemit on Mar 02, 2008, 02:51:06 AM
He had time to take his armor off, he could have set the bomb in that time too, didn't look like Chet minded waiting.
I have a real answer for you...Chet's last hit fried the bomb.
wow
I found a new and improved version of the final fight scene. Im sure the BS would be envious of these directing skills. and im sure these guys can give ADI some pointers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px3J3FDMyc8&NR=1
I fail to see the humour.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 05, 2008, 05:02:15 AM
I fail to see the humour.
thats too bad, cuz i laughed.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 05, 2008, 05:02:15 AM
I fail to see the humour.
thats what happens when ya high on fox's shit...
and i found it funny...lol
After watching that and remembering the movie all I can say is:
omfgrotflmao
+1.