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AvP Merchandise => Alien-Predator Literature => Topic started by: EJA on May 23, 2020, 09:30:54 PM

Title: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: EJA on May 23, 2020, 09:30:54 PM
Where do they come from? Are they all descended from those on LV-426?
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Stitch on May 24, 2020, 12:00:46 AM
Same place as the one in AlienĀ³
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 AM
Here's a quick and dirty list of Xeno origins from the Titan stories, in no particular order.

Drukathi site on LV-178 "New Galveston"
Alien: Out of the Shadows by Tim Lebbon
Alien: Sea of Sorrows by James A. Moore

Drukathi sites on LV-178 & 'Midsummer'
Rage War Trilogy by Tim Lebbon

From LV-426
Alien: River of Pain by Christopher Golden
Alien: Isolation by Keith R. A. DeCandido
No Good Deed by Ray Garton
Dark Mother by David Farland

Unknown but implied to be LV-426
Alien: The Cold Forge by Alex White (intention confirmed by Author in interviews)
Alien: Prototype by Tim Waggoner
Aliens: Phalanx by Scott Sigler
Hugs to Die For by Mike Resnick and Marina J. Lostetter
Zero to Hero by Weston Ochse

Another world in the Zeta Reticuli system
Chance Encounter by Paul Kupperberg

From Unknown origins
Reclamation by Yvonne Navarro
Empty Nest by Brian Keene
Darkness Falls by Heather Graham
Dangerous Prey by Scott Sigler

From LV-418
Deep Background by Keith R. A. DeCandido

All that being said, there's no reason to believe that the xeno varieties we know and love from across the franchise couldn't, haven't, or didn't exist before David decided to play around with his tissue remixes on Planet 4, suggestions otherwise are just that, ill defined suggestions.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: EJA on May 24, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 AM
There's no reason to believe that the xeno varieties we know and love couldn't have or didn't exist before David played around with his tissue remixes on Planet 4

Actually, there is very good reason to believe they didn't exist before David. It's what Covenant said, and it's what Ridley Scott fully intends, and since it is canon, we must roll with it.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 09:12:09 AM
Quote from: EJA on May 24, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 AM
There's no reason to believe that the xeno varieties we know and love couldn't have or didn't exist before David played around with his tissue remixes on Planet 4

Actually, there is very good reason to believe they didn't exist before David. It's what Covenant said, and it's what Ridley Scott fully intends, and since it is canon, we must roll with it.

Sure man, live it and breath it. Ride the Tiger! I assure you friend, I am in no way calling into question your fanhood. I'm just offering my counter interpretation of what I see in the film and how that would most reasonably fit in with an inclusive combined AvP universe encompassing Alien as well as Predator.

It sounds like you might practice belief in irreconcilably exclusive universes in which only the three Ridley Scott films are valid members, and that's cool. The way I interpret the essence of any given story is by accounting for all of its different iterations, and then comparing where the details of those various iterations are either similar or dissimilar. But perhaps, in your interpretation, there's more of a hierarchical structure in which there is only one true vision with one true creator rendering all others moot.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, figuratively, all the different orange varieties are oranges, and if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that one variety of orange is more orange than all the other varieties of oranges, and thus, the rest of the varieties cannot therefore truly be oranges.

Or, more to the point, using Blade Runner as an example, I would contend that all 7 versions of Blade Runner are collectively Blade Runner, and further that the scripts, the novelization, the comic adaptation, the original Philip K Dick novel, (both the first version set in 1992 & the later revision set in 2021), the other PKD stories connected to "Do Androids Dream..." like "We Can Build You" and "The Little Black Box", as well as the audiobook productions, and also the radio play adaptation, are all aspects of that same story that together makes up, in my mind, that which is "Blade Runner".

Conversely, you may perhaps believe that the 2007 "Final Cut" is the one and only true Blade Runner and that all other versions, perhaps, are merely sickening pretenders to the throne. And to that I unironically say, right on man, love what you love any way you want to. I ain't ever gonna take that from you.



...and by the way, that's not eeeeeven calling into account the KW Jeter Novel sequel series, the comic prequel Ashes to Ashes, or the sidequel video games or the ongoing Blade Runner 2019 comic, or 2049 or the short films.. whew lemme catch my breath. I never said it was a better way, I only say it's more exhausting.

Lawdy lawdy, guess who needs a 40'...

But yeah, I am genuinely this big an "Ass Burger", great with numbers and obsessive hobbies, bad on human simulation skills.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: HuDaFuK on May 24, 2020, 09:20:16 PM
Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 AMDrukathi site on LV-797 "New Galveston"

New Galveston is LV-178.

Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 AMZero to Hero by Weston Ochse

Reclamation by Yvonne Navarro

There aren't any Xenomorphs in those shorts? "Zero to Hero" mentions rumours of them being around, but none actually appear in it.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: SM on May 24, 2020, 09:46:22 PM
From memory Reclamation hints that the enemy are Aliens but doesn't confirm it.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: SpaceKase on May 25, 2020, 08:18:35 AM
Quote from: SM on May 24, 2020, 09:46:22 PM
From memory Reclamation hints that the enemy are Aliens but doesn't confirm it.

You're totally correct, its deliberately vague and ambiguous so they could skate that edge with Hicks' experience, since it could go either way it was a marginal inclusion and I just threw it in under the unknown heading;


Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 24, 2020, 09:20:16 PM
Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 AMDrukathi site on LV-797 "New Galveston"

New Galveston is LV-178.

Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 AMZero to Hero by Weston Ochse

Reclamation by Yvonne Navarro

There aren't any Xenomorphs in those shorts? "Zero to Hero" mentions rumours of them being around, but none actually appear in it.

re: New Galveston, you're totally right man, I musta been drinkin' draino, I totally got it mixed up in my head with Tartarus from Life & Death. Correction made, thanks for the catch.

re: Zero to Hero, yeah that was another marginal inclusion in the list since they're not technically there, but they're clearly present in the mind of the protagonist throughout the story, so it's kinda like they're a part of the story, and then the question becomes if they are out there somewhere in the story's world then where are they potentially coming from, it was a super tenuous judgement call, so I just threw them in there as unknown but implied.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: HuDaFuK on May 25, 2020, 08:37:27 AM
Quote from: SM on May 24, 2020, 09:46:22 PMFrom memory Reclamation hints that the enemy are Aliens but doesn't confirm it.

That was my bad, I was confusing Reclamation with the one about Dietrich and Frost fighting the alien insects in a bar :)
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: SpaceKase on May 25, 2020, 08:49:52 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 25, 2020, 08:37:27 AM
Quote from: SM on May 24, 2020, 09:46:22 PMFrom memory Reclamation hints that the enemy are Aliens but doesn't confirm it.

That was my bad, I was confusing Reclamation with the one about Dietrich and Frost fighting the alien insects in a bar :)

Yeah, Reclamation was doing the dodgy "are they or aren't they" thing which is a total prequel cliche, but I still dug it for the Hicks and Rachel stuff.

Exterminators was another on-the-fence one since the bugs described are clearly not "Xenos" as we think of them, but with the similar traits they did have leave one totally able to imagine they could potentially be offshoots that were somehow related, but yeah, they were different enough that I left them out, but I still love that story because of how the guy reads it in the Audiobook, that and fact that the story is totally reminiscent of the 2005 horror flick "Feast" which me and my partner also love, so it is fondly remembered, if not included. With the rain waking up the bugs it had a very Riddick vibe as well, which as a series I'm a complete sucker for. I really hope they get to make more of them. I know they're a labor of love for Diesel and Twohy,
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Xenomrph on May 26, 2020, 07:01:49 AM
Quote from: EJA on May 24, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 AM
There's no reason to believe that the xeno varieties we know and love couldn't have or didn't exist before David played around with his tissue remixes on Planet 4

Actually, there is very good reason to believe they didn't exist before David. It's what Covenant said, and it's what Ridley Scott fully intends, and since it is canon, we must roll with it.
No, we don't. :)
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Local Trouble on May 26, 2020, 02:19:56 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 26, 2020, 07:01:49 AM
Quote from: EJA on May 24, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 AM
There's no reason to believe that the xeno varieties we know and love couldn't have or didn't exist before David played around with his tissue remixes on Planet 4

Actually, there is very good reason to believe they didn't exist before David. It's what Covenant said, and it's what Ridley Scott fully intends, and since it is canon, we must roll with it.

No, we don't. :)

You are obligated to comply.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Xenomrph on May 26, 2020, 04:14:25 PM
NEVER.

Hey the old DHPress and Bantam stuff (and f**kin' Kenner stuff) got rolled back into "the official canon" courtesy of the RPG, so if we're tracing Alien origins then there's a lot more work to be done. ;D
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Hudson on May 26, 2020, 04:56:37 PM
Quote from: EJA on May 24, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 AM
There's no reason to believe that the xeno varieties we know and love couldn't have or didn't exist before David played around with his tissue remixes on Planet 4

Actually, there is very good reason to believe they didn't exist before David. It's what Covenant said, and it's what Ridley Scott fully intends, and since it is canon, we must roll with it.

I believe what I want.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: SpaceKase on May 26, 2020, 06:46:31 PM
Quote from: Hudson on May 26, 2020, 04:56:37 PM
Quote from: EJA on May 24, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 02:50:48 AM
There's no reason to believe that the xeno varieties we know and love couldn't have or didn't exist before David played around with his tissue remixes on Planet 4

Actually, there is very good reason to believe they didn't exist before David. It's what Covenant said, and it's what Ridley Scott fully intends, and since it is canon, we must roll with it.

I believe what I want.

"It's what I.. Choose to believe..."
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: EJA on May 27, 2020, 02:02:22 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 26, 2020, 04:14:25 PM
NEVER.

Hey the old DHPress and Bantam stuff (and f**kin' Kenner stuff) got rolled back into "the official canon" courtesy of the RPG, so if we're tracing Alien origins then there's a lot more work to be done. ;D

Eh? How can that be? There are too many contradictions.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Xenomrph on May 27, 2020, 02:48:36 PM
Quote from: EJA on May 27, 2020, 02:02:22 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 26, 2020, 04:14:25 PM
NEVER.

Hey the old DHPress and Bantam stuff (and f**kin' Kenner stuff) got rolled back into "the official canon" courtesy of the RPG, so if we're tracing Alien origins then there's a lot more work to be done. ;D

Eh? How can that be? There are too many contradictions.
"Canon" and "continuity" are not synonyms. :)

But to use your words - it is canon, and we must roll with it. ;)
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: SpaceKase on May 27, 2020, 08:03:52 PM
Quote from: EJA on May 27, 2020, 02:02:22 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 26, 2020, 04:14:25 PM
NEVER.

Hey the old DHPress and Bantam stuff (and f**kin' Kenner stuff) got rolled back into "the official canon" courtesy of the RPG, so if we're tracing Alien origins then there's a lot more work to be done. ;D

Eh? How can that be? There are too many contradictions.

Not contradictions so much as paradoxes.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: SM on May 27, 2020, 09:40:54 PM
The RPG doesn't make old licensed material canon. The RPG just uses some of the old locations.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Xenomrph on May 27, 2020, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: SM on May 27, 2020, 09:40:54 PM
The RPG doesn't make old licensed material canon. The RPG just uses some of the old locations.
Not exactly, the locations are canon (and in the case of Tanaka 5, the scorpions and by proxy Scorpion Aliens), but according to Andrew Gaska it's done that way so players can treat the old stories as "canon" if they want to. He talked about it on the podcast he participated in for Alien Day.



I'll ask him about it anyway.


Got an answer:

https://imgur.com/a/ZMFcQI3
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Local Trouble on May 27, 2020, 11:48:08 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 27, 2020, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: SM on May 27, 2020, 09:40:54 PM
The RPG doesn't make old licensed material canon. The RPG just uses some of the old locations.

Not exactly, the locations are canon (and in the case of Tanaka 5, the scorpions and by proxy Scorpion Aliens), but according to Andrew Gaska it's done that way so players can treat the old stories as "canon" if they want to. He talked about it on the podcast he participated in for Alien Day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5sSiYwEF-Y

I'll ask him about it anyway.


Got an answer:

https://imgur.com/a/ZMFcQI3

:o
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: SpaceKase on May 28, 2020, 07:55:47 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 27, 2020, 10:50:40 PM
Quote from: SM on May 27, 2020, 09:40:54 PM
The RPG doesn't make old licensed material canon. The RPG just uses some of the old locations.
[...]
I'll ask him about it anyway.


Got an answer:
https://imgur.com/a/ZMFcQI3

Damn. That is classy AF.  Right on, man. I'm really looking forward to checking that out.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Still Collating... on May 28, 2020, 08:39:40 AM
Love that explanation.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: j0nesy on May 28, 2020, 03:59:00 PM
same, when it comes to the alien rpg i consider the locations, characters and general story premises as canon, and then whatever path playing the game actually takes, is in line with his "overheard in a bar" take
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: SM on May 28, 2020, 08:52:16 PM
Also consider that nearly all that old EU stuff hasn't happened in the timeframe of the RPG yet.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Xenomrph on May 28, 2020, 09:06:02 PM
Quote from: SM on May 28, 2020, 08:52:16 PM
Also consider that nearly all that old EU stuff hasn't happened in the timeframe of the RPG yet.
That doesn't change Gaska's point or intent.

Also the bulk of the old EU is vague to the point that it can happen just about whenever you want in the timeline.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: SpaceKase on May 29, 2020, 11:53:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on May 28, 2020, 09:06:02 PM
Quote from: SM on May 28, 2020, 08:52:16 PM
Also consider that nearly all that old EU stuff hasn't happened in the timeframe of the RPG yet.
That doesn't change Gaska's point or intent.
[...]

Truth.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on May 30, 2020, 12:35:19 AM
Places/locations/ideas from old content showing up in the new canon doesn't make the old content canon... if merely makes those places/locations/ideas canon. When Thrawn appeared in Star Wars Rebels, that didn't make the old Timothy Zahn novels canon again. It just created a new, canon version of Thrawn. Darth Bane being in The Clone Wars didn't re-canonize old Darth Bane stories. Or the planet Malachor in Rebels. Or the mention of Life Day in The Mandalorian. And so on and so forth.

Same principle applies here. Maybe some locations from old Dark Horse comics are canon, since they're on the map, but that doesn't make the old stories that were set on those planets canon.
Title: Re: Aliens in the Titan novel series
Post by: Xenomrph on May 30, 2020, 01:08:03 AM
That's not what Gaska said, he was awfully clear on it. The audience is deciding what's canon, and those stories are part of it if they want them to be. Even SM recognized that, even if he made the claim that the stories "hadn't happened yet" (which is contingent on when one places them in the timeline).

Also Star Wars =/= Alien/Predator/AvP