QuoteThe studio's big summer bet was Ridley Scott's Prometheus, June's sort-of Alien prequel. The $130 million-budgeted film grossed a solid but not spectacular $303 mil- lion globally, putting it right on the franchise bubble. Fox confirms to THR that Scott and the studio actively are pushing ahead with a follow-up (stars Michael Fassbender and Noomi Rapace are signed) and are talking to new writers because Prometheus co-scribe Damon Lindelof might not be available. "Ridley is incred- ibly excited about the movie, but we have to get it right. We can't rush it," says Fox president of production Emma Watts, who also has overseen the successful reboots of the X-Men and Planet of the Apes franchises. A Prometheus sequel would be released in 2014 or 2015.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/summer-movie-franchise-avengers-snow-white-magic-mike-356583 (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/summer-movie-franchise-avengers-snow-white-magic-mike-356583)
Excellent. I really hope that everything goes according to plan :)
Good news! Thank you for that.
No Lindelof, no problem. ;D
I wouldn't mind if Lindelof came back, personally. Lindelof or not, Scott is still running with the human creator story and following up on the themes of the first film, after all.
I really hope they'll start this sequel with a backstory on Weyland as a character and the company, and then they'll segue it with the way Prometheus ended for Elizabeth and David. I also hope they'll explore the merger of Weyland and Yutani - probably caused by poor financial situation of Weyland Corp caused by allocating vast majority of funds to the Prometheus expedition (risking it all, hoping for a big pay-off). Needless to say I hope for a return of Guy Pearce as Peter Weyland.
"Damon Lindelof might not be available" LOL yea right the guy probably bailed out on Ridley almost instantly as soon as he heard sequel. probably found it hard to work with the director :P but yea hope things go well this time.
Great news!
Yeah baby 8)
Good news, but please no Spaihts... I feel like Lindelof got all the crap while Spaihts (the guy who wrote the terrible Darkest Hour before Prometheus) got off scott free.
Get the writer of The Tree of Life. Or, better yet...get Jon Spaihts back.
At the end of the day....I blame Ridley Scott for the gaping holes left by way of editing. Lindelof's contribution.....I don't know. The problem with the film is more in the way it was put together, as opposed to the writing.
BUT
There are elements (a lost geologist, among many) that were poorly written.
FIX THEM.
The Tree of life was the biggest steaming pile of shit movie I've ever sat through 30 minutes of (that's how far I made it).
Then you and I saw a different film. I think the film is a vesper to heaven....lyrical, low key, beautiful.
We can agree to disagree. Us not liking something doesn't make it bad, it just means we don't like it.
This has made my evening at work alot better!!! :-)
I'd like to see a thriller about how Weyland Industries becomes tied with the Yutani Coporation. And maybe end it with the Nostromo being redirected. But that is never going to happen. I hope at least we do get to see the whole Weyland Industries / Yutani Coporation joining though.
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Made my day.
Excellent news.
Quotehere are elements (a lost geologist, among many)
Geologists aren't cartographers or master navigators...They study natural formations. Like rocks.
I hope this gets made and is not put on hold like the sequel to Predators.
Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Aug 01, 2012, 05:43:52 PM
I hope this gets made and is not put on hold like the sequel to Predators.
I have a feeling we'll get this before a
Predators sequel, if only because of the original plan to release the 'Alien Prequel' as a two-part film.
I honestly do not know how to comprehend the idea of a Prometheus prequel. Don't get me wrong, I really liked the movie for what it was and enjoyed a lot of the elements which it introduced, but with the way the first film ended we can assume that the next film will be Paradise, and if it does go in the direction where Prometheus ended... I'm not so sure I'm ready for that.
I am for a sequel. I really am.
Just please, no Xenomorphs. I mean the way the Deacon was kind of shoved in seemed almost ham-fisted in a way.
-Rakai'Thwei
I'm all for it, so let's get this movie going already.
I wouldn't really say I'm hyped for it, but I'll give it a watch for sure.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 01, 2012, 05:45:38 PM
I have a feeling we'll get this before a Predators sequel, if only because of the original plan to release the 'Alien Prequel' as a two-part film.
Correction. Three part film series. We're going to be getting a trilogy.
And I hope we don't get a PREDATORS sequel. I'll take Prometheus sequels over Rodriguez's film any day.
-Rakai'Thwei
Maybe Fox should ask the fans to write it. Wouldn't it be cool if each forum dedicated to the Alien series and I know there's quite a few of them. Wouldn't it be cool if each forum got together writers and each forum posted their own script?
For example a group of users in another forum did just that and wrote a sequel. Well what they'd like to see in a sequel
http://www.prometheusforum.net/discussion/2878/paradise-lost-story-by-many-pf-users-and-script-by-me (http://www.prometheusforum.net/discussion/2878/paradise-lost-story-by-many-pf-users-and-script-by-me)
I know prometheusnews and another site i forget the name of is doing this also. so why don't the mods or something get together some members here with writing experience and write a script using imagination and ideas from the members here?
fox might take notice :P
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 01, 2012, 06:04:01 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 01, 2012, 05:45:38 PM
I have a feeling we'll get this before a Predators sequel, if only because of the original plan to release the 'Alien Prequel' as a two-part film.
Correction. Three part film series. We're going to be getting a trilogy.
And I hope we don't get a PREDATORS sequel. I'll take Prometheus sequels over Rodriguez's film any day.
-Rakai'Thwei
Deacon vs Goro-Predator!
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 01, 2012, 05:55:46 PM
Just please, no Xenomorphs. I mean the way the Deacon was kind of shoved in seemed almost ham-fisted in a way.
Ridley has said that a sequel would move even farther away from
Alien that
Prometheus was, so I wouldn't go in expecting literal Aliens. Of course, things can change from now to the film's release.
I would love to see more of the Deacon, however. I want to get to know just what the thing is.
Give it another 30 years, then we'll find out.
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Aug 01, 2012, 05:06:15 PM
Then you and I saw a different film. I think the film is a vesper to heaven....lyrical, low key, beautiful.
We can agree to disagree. Us not liking something doesn't make it bad, it just means we don't like it.
It's not that I didn't get what it was trying to achieve. Just that Baraka did it years ago, about ten times better and ten time's more breath taking without seeing random shots of Brad Pitt and Sean Penn with a thousand mile stare.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Aug 01, 2012, 06:06:46 PM
Deacon vs Goro-Predator!
No! Good God, no!
-Rakai'Thwei
Quote from: ShadowPred on Aug 01, 2012, 06:10:43 PM
Give it another 30 years, then we'll find out.
Does the Deacon wear a Ripley suit? :o
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 01, 2012, 06:12:43 PM
Quote from: ShadowPred on Aug 01, 2012, 06:06:46 PM
Deacon vs Goro-Predator!
No! Good God, no!
-Rakai'Thwei
LOL, god, I hope not.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 01, 2012, 06:13:23 PM
Quote from: ShadowPred on Aug 01, 2012, 06:10:43 PM
Give it another 30 years, then we'll find out.
Does the Deacon wear a Ripley suit? :o
I'm no Seer!
brother, i'm sorry to correct your grammer but its
'farther from Alien than Prometheus was'.
Thats elementary school for you.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 01, 2012, 06:09:49 PM
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Aug 01, 2012, 05:55:46 PM
Just please, no Xenomorphs. I mean the way the Deacon was kind of shoved in seemed almost ham-fisted in a way.
Ridley has said that a sequel would move even farther away from Alien that Prometheus was, so I wouldn't go in expecting literal Aliens. Of course, things can change from now to the film's release.
I would love to see more of the Deacon, however. I want to get to know just what the thing is.
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 06:15:06 PM
brother, i'm sorry to correct your grammer but its
'farther from Alien than Prometheus was'.
Thats elementary school for you.
Sorry for the typo, man. My finger must have slipped on the keyboard.
And I'm sorry to correct your spelling, but its actually 'grammar', not 'grammer'. Oh, and 'I'm' should be capitalized and there is an apostrophe in 'that's'. Learned that in elementary school :)
Lulz
I don't believe that Noomi and fassbender had already signed. I think thats BS. Plus wouldnt they have that in their WIKI page? if this is late breaking news, then we will see by end of day today.
That type of deal usually follows an extraordinary for-sight based on world wide earnings for Prometheus and sequal announcements. Plus thats the assumption that the sequel is a continuation of the last film and not a story in itself which i am personally more interested in.
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 06:21:31 PM
I don't believe that Noomi and fassbender had already signed. I think thats BS. Plus wouldnt they have that in their WIKI page? if this is late breaking news, then we will see by end of day today.
That type of deal usually follows an extraordinary for-sight based on world wide earnings for Prometheus and sequal announcements. Plus thats the assumption that the sequel is a continuation of the last film and not a story in itself which i am personally more interested in.
Why would they have that on their wiki page? They don't edit it themselves.
hrmm...shizzle my dizzle wizzle! ;)
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 01, 2012, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 06:15:06 PM
brother, i'm sorry to correct your grammer but its
'farther from Alien than Prometheus was'.
Thats elementary school for you.
Sorry for the typo, man. My finger must have slipped on the keyboard.
And I'm sorry to correct your spelling, but its actually 'grammar', not 'grammer'. Oh, and 'I'm' should be capitalized and there is an apostrophe in 'that's'. Learned that in elementary school :)
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 06:21:31 PM
I don't believe that Noomi and fassbender had already signed. I think thats BS. Plus wouldnt they have that in their WIKI page? if this is late breaking news, then we will see by end of day today.
That type of deal usually follows an extraordinary for-sight based on world wide earnings for Prometheus and sequal announcements. Plus thats the assumption that the sequel is a continuation of the last film and not a story in itself which i am personally more interested in.
Not necessarily. Marvel Studios, for example, is well known for signing cast members to multiple film contracts, just in case a sequel opportunity pops up. Fox could have done the same thing with them because they knew that they were going to survive the movie.
maybe not their own wiki page but the films wiki page. I forget how news get verified there but its usually source credited.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Aug 01, 2012, 06:23:06 PM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 06:21:31 PM
I don't believe that Noomi and fassbender had already signed. I think thats BS. Plus wouldnt they have that in their WIKI page? if this is late breaking news, then we will see by end of day today.
That type of deal usually follows an extraordinary for-sight based on world wide earnings for Prometheus and sequal announcements. Plus thats the assumption that the sequel is a continuation of the last film and not a story in itself which i am personally more interested in.
Why would they have that on their wiki page? They don't edit it themselves.
It's standard practice in Hollywood to sign actors on to multi-film deals, even if no sequels are planned. Just in case, y'know.
What if its a prequel to Prometheus? A Prequel to the Prequel of Alien. but called a Sequel.
A Sequel to the prequel thats is actual a Prequel to the Prequel.
Or maybe it could be a sequel but have a mini prequel inside it.
Excellent news! I hope Spaihts at least can be involved even if Lindelof can't.
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Aug 01, 2012, 06:28:41 PM
It's standard practice in Hollywood to sign actors on to multi-film deals, even if no sequels are planned. Just in case, y'know.
Yup. It was announced before the film came out if I remember and discussed on here. Something about David being able to play "alternate" versions of himself or something along those lines.
Niiiiice.
Dont rush it, Ridley.... get this shit right.
Quote from: Highland on Aug 01, 2012, 06:43:23 PM
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Aug 01, 2012, 06:28:41 PM
It's standard practice in Hollywood to sign actors on to multi-film deals, even if no sequels are planned. Just in case, y'know.
Yup. It was announced before the film came out if I remember and discussed on here. Something about David being able to play "alternate" versions of himself or something along those lines.
I would still love to see that happen. Maybe this David interacting with a new, fresh off the assembly line David 8 that's on board whatever the new ship in the film is.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 01, 2012, 06:44:50 PM
Niiiiice.
Dont rush it, Ridley.... get this shit right.
Depending on how much of his original two-part Alien Prequel script he used in
Prometheus, he may still have a lot of stuff to pull from.
Is it safe to say that the budget will be smaller this time around?
Prometheus did well but it wasnt a HUGE success...
It still outdid its budget, though. And sequels tend to be more popular (especially if this winds up being a success on DVD/Blu Ray).
I can't see the future, but I'm expecting the budget to be about the same.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 01, 2012, 06:49:24 PM
Is it safe to say that the budget will be smaller this time around?
Prometheus did well but it wasnt a HUGE success...
I actually hope for something like that if it translates in more focus into the script as opposed to the special effects \o/
I definitely want to see a tighter script this time around (and, perhaps moreso, tighter editing), but given where the story seems to be headed, big sets seem like a given again. And I'm very excited to see what visuals Scott is cooking up this time around.
Great news! More Noomi and Fassbender = ;D
I assume they'll go to the planet of the Engineers, though I expect more human characters to be added. Maybe a rescue ship is sent out to follow the trail of the Prometheus, perhaps a military eliment?
I'd like to see more of younger Weyland... maybe he comes back as an android?
The sequel needs to begin with us finding out Weyland had a second team following him to LV-223 to pick up his escape module, the new team sets down and discovers the dead engineer and the dead big face hugger and no survivors, then we have a nice classic alien sequence with the deacon attacking this new crew...after they kill the deacon (first 3rd of the movie) they go and explore the caves, they discover a message Shaw left, that lets them know where she was heading, so then they take off after her...we don't see Shaw until at least halfway through the film...then we follow Shaw and David as they reach the Engineer homeworld...they set down...(pro writer fills in this part) but the basic idea is Shaw discovers something entirely unforeseen about the Engineers...maybe she discovers they are breeding Xenos or whatever...but shit goes south in a hurry and she is taken by the engineers...then the new crew shows up and has to rescue her...but bottom line there needs to be a second crew, if Shaw and David are the only human/oid characters I don't think it would work
I for one would like to know what the teardrop ship in the opening sequence was.
We don't know a thing about it and we can't just assume that it was a friendlier ship. I bet the contents was just as bombastic and horrific as the stuff from Prometheus.
Well.. we need to know what Weyland did with LV-223 but that's not the most interesting storyline to follow.. we can learn about that at the end of the movie via a couple of lines. (I.e. we sent a clean up team, they were mostly killed by the deacon, we ended up nuking the entire planet. ta da.)
They should focus on the Shaw/David voyage.
They should bring new human characters into this voyage. (There are ways to do this well).
And they should answer EVERYTHING. They might not get a chance to do another sequel.. might as well go all in.
I'm not really that interested in anything Weyland related. He's dead and we already know what happens to the company. The fine details are not really necessary for me.
I also think the Deacon may be the only nod to Alien we get. I think Scott may go off into another direction, investigating other creatures and also the Engineers home world.
I'd be surprised if he put any Xeno's in the sequel.
Quote from: Highland on Aug 01, 2012, 07:27:39 PM
I'm not really that interested in anything Weyland related. He's dead and we already know what happens to the company. The fine details are not really necessary for me.
What happens?
Yutani? Does that name ring any bells?
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 01, 2012, 07:37:31 PM
Yutani? Does that name ring any bells?
And there's never anything to it.
And treating this matter in such way equals a wasted opportunity for a really interesting economic backdrop that'd add much depth.
He means that we already know Weyland and Yutani merge, and he doesn't care about why it happens.
Personally, I would love to see that element explored more in a future film. Though I'm also very interested in continuing Shaw and David's story. I'm very interested in, as Ripley said it, finally meeting 'god'.
I'm more interested in the company than the journey of Shaw and David. Would love to see how the sequel turns out though ;D Also i still kind of hope that Vickers is an android and she crawls away the spaceship in a future movie ::)
In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Vickers again. Not actual Vickers from Prometheus, mind you, but an android designed after her. A familiar face for the company, if you will.
Quote from: Snowdog on Aug 01, 2012, 07:44:54 PM
I'm more interested in the company than the journey of Shaw and David. Would love to see how the sequel turns out though ;D Also i still kind of hope that Vickers is an android and she crawls away the spaceship in a future movie ::)
I'm doubting vickers will be there as she seems to be super busy as an actress.
Quote from: fiveways on Aug 01, 2012, 07:54:37 PM
Quote from: Snowdog on Aug 01, 2012, 07:44:54 PM
I'm more interested in the company than the journey of Shaw and David. Would love to see how the sequel turns out though ;D Also i still kind of hope that Vickers is an android and she crawls away the spaceship in a future movie ::)
I'm doubting vickers will be there as she seems to be super busy as an actress.
I can still hope ::) She is my favorite Prometheus character and i would love to see her make a return
Quote from: Snowdog on Aug 01, 2012, 07:56:40 PM
Quote from: fiveways on Aug 01, 2012, 07:54:37 PM
Quote from: Snowdog on Aug 01, 2012, 07:44:54 PM
I'm more interested in the company than the journey of Shaw and David. Would love to see how the sequel turns out though ;D Also i still kind of hope that Vickers is an android and she crawls away the spaceship in a future movie ::)
I'm doubting vickers will be there as she seems to be super busy as an actress.
I can still hope ::) She is my favorite Prometheus character and i would love to see her make a return
Oh I get it, I also understand she is filming probably 2 mad max films on top of everything else on her IMDB.
Plus, I am probably more excited about a return to the world of mad max right now then a prometheus sequel.
honestly , anyone has seen Pandorum? now thats a GREAT MOVIE but it has the similar problems like Prometheus....and its only that the script is laking in some point, like we were watching a movie that we have seen it in a dosends of time before (not only because of avp cmon)! Both movies are well directed, no doubt! Awesome conversations, awesome sets, awesome footages, the tense is awesoem BUT Pandorum altough has the monsters that almost every 2nd movie has nowdays stil have a fews TWISTS at the end that u ....and i bet my whole life on it...would never figure out by yourself when u watching it 1st time.
ummm thats enough :D i mean hire the writer of Pandorum if he/she so talented!
Quote from: szkoki on Aug 01, 2012, 08:31:59 PM
honestly , anyone has seen Pandorum? now thats a GREAT MOVIE but it has the similar problems like Prometheus....and its only that the script is laking in some point, like we were watching a movie that we have seen it in a dosends of time before (not only because of avp cmon)! Both movies are well directed, no doubt! Awesome conversations, awesome sets, awesome footages, the tense is awesoem BUT Pandorum altough has the monsters that almost every 2nd movie has nowdays stil have a fews TWISTS at the end that u ....and i bet my whole life on it...would never figure out by yourself when u watching it 1st time.
ummm thats enough :D i mean hire the writer of Pandorum if he/she so talented!
I love Pandorum !!! :D I always said they need the director/writer of pandorum to make an alien/avp movie. It is a really interesting science fiction movie 8)
Quote from: newbeing on Aug 01, 2012, 04:58:08 PM
Good news, but please no Spaihts... I feel like Lindelof got all the crap while Spaihts (the guy who wrote the terrible Darkest Hour before Prometheus) got off scott free.
+1
I felt that Pandorum fell to pieces after the 20 min mark. Interesting ideas, but...
As for Prometheus ... feel strangely ambivalent.
I still dont know how was Prometheus turned into a vague mess but from what we got was that Lideloff took out all references to anything and Scott liked it. And this was after Scott had a complete script. This whole "is or is not a prequel" happened from the start and never let up.
So this next movie is will be up in the air to what it is until release unless these people get down to it and speak direct about what it is.
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 01, 2012, 08:36:45 PM
I felt that Pandorum fell to pieces after the 20 min mark. Interesting ideas, but...
As for Prometheus ... feel strangely ambivalent.
well i think the first 20 minutes are awesome, just a two of u in a haunted ghost ship trying to figure out whats going on...epic , then the monsters show up...i feel a bit dissapointed as the monsters from Descent also can be found here....so it goes into a mediocore horror, then in the end the whole acting of Quaid is pure awesome and also that last 20 minutes, epic! so basicly one of the best sci-fi in the 21st century for me...at least its not so "boring" as the 2nd half of the Prometheus
I'm going to take this news with a grain of salt, for now. It could be years until we see movement on this. Scott still has a bunch of other projects on his plate, and he's been known to procrastinate. I hope his passion is there.
I was also pumped for "Predators 2", and that isn't happening, apparently...
Quote from: szkoki on Aug 01, 2012, 08:55:39 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Aug 01, 2012, 08:36:45 PM
I felt that Pandorum fell to pieces after the 20 min mark. Interesting ideas, but...
As for Prometheus ... feel strangely ambivalent.
well i think the first 20 minutes are awesome, just a two of u in a haunted ghost ship trying to figure out whats going on...epic , then the monsters show up...i feel a bit dissapointed as the monsters from Descent also can be found here....so it goes into a mediocore horror, then in the end the whole acting of Quaid is pure awesome and also that last 20 minutes, epic! so basicly one of the best sci-fi in the 21st century for me...at least its not so "boring" as the 2nd half of the Prometheus
This is kinda why I want prometheus 2 to just be shaw, david, and engineers as the onlyt humanoids. I love the idea of a girl trapped in deep space with a walking version of Hal 9000 looking for a planet that is probably filled with death.
Bleak and depressing. Hopeless. No jock marines to save the day. No other people, use isolation to it's fullest.
Will never happen.
I also kinda expect ridley to only produce this one.
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 06:15:06 PM
brother, i'm sorry to correct your grammer but its
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic2.ucm.co.za%2Fmedia%2Fheat_coza%2Farticles%2F2010%2F05%2F_thumbs%2Fjesse-james-nightline_jpg_618x999_q85.jpg&hash=e1b851eb0f3c8a324f6b5958597b9af74a96bf37)
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 06:15:06 PM
correct your grammer
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgyazo.com%2Fbda0e8db87bf5450f6bd70b1595d9b69.png&hash=eeb4904c4827a646186fd239883d58589bd48172)
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 06:15:06 PM
grammer
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgyazo.com%2F39e74ae46455160fdb17afcf9604836e.png&hash=2f00caa8dccab8daa8a9eae342f5631477e511a9)
I heard that Lideloff wanted to make it a comedy because he's the twin brother of David Cross.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nymag.com%2Fnymetro%2Farts%2Ftv%2Fdavidcross041227_175.jpg&hash=d16b4416aa72d3f7987fcf5c6db7a1dc72dd45bb)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nextmovie.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2Fdamon-lindelof220x300.jpg&hash=994222bc6eb6e554efea66c1aae7ee787070bb04)
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Aug 01, 2012, 08:38:01 PM
I still dont know how was Prometheus turned into a vague mess but from what we got was that Lideloff took out all references to anything and Scott liked it. And this was after Scott had a complete script. This whole "is or is not a prequel" happened from the start and never let up.
So this next movie is will be up in the air to what it is until release unless these people get down to it and speak direct about what it is.
I think Pandorum was great until the monsters showed up.
All I want from prometheus 2 is Shaw and David, a properly biomechanical planet, and more engineers. Anything else is just icing.
Yeah i hope to see more biomechanical stuff
EXELSIOR my BROTHA!
EXCELSIOR!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgyazo.com%2F39e74ae46455160fdb17afcf9604836e.png&hash=2f00caa8dccab8daa8a9eae342f5631477e511a9)
there has to be 2 ideas
1. Shaw and David story + another one with other humans
2. Only Shaw and David and a lot of engineers or other creatures played by real actors.....just hope it doesnt turn out to be an avatar or a lame sci-fi with talking monsters.
Quote from: AmazSpiderMan1 on Aug 01, 2012, 09:07:48 PM
I'm going to take this news with a grain of salt, for now. It could be years until we see movement on this. Scott still has a bunch of other projects on his plate, and he's been known to procrastinate. I hope his passion is there.
Fox going ahead with PROMETHEUS sequel, with or without Lindelof, or, maybe even, gulp, Scott.
http://collider.com/prometheus-2-sequel-2014/185603/ (http://collider.com/prometheus-2-sequel-2014/185603/)
DO NOT RUSH THIS, FOX!
I'm sorry, acrediblesource, are you Mastermoon on another account?
once again i struggle to be excited.
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 01, 2012, 09:21:03 PM
I'm sorry, acrediblesource, are you Mastermoon on another account?
If possible that is?
may he rest in peace.
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 01, 2012, 09:21:03 PM
I'm sorry, acrediblesource, are you Mastermoon on another account?
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Aug 01, 2012, 09:26:08 PM
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 01, 2012, 09:21:03 PM
I'm sorry, acrediblesource, are you Mastermoon on another account?
If possible that is?
You've gotta remember the period after the question mark.
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 09:26:35 PM
may he rest in peace.
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 01, 2012, 09:21:03 PM
I'm sorry, acrediblesource, are you Mastermoon on another account?
:c
I suppose now they can make up for the silly disaster that was the first film. Although considering where the story is probably going to go, the sequel will just be an even sillier disaster.
I won't actually believe it'll happen anyway til there's a green light.
they could just rename Prometheus to Vol. 1 and spend the entirety of this movie shooting the missing scenes to complete "the puzzle".
Lolz, of course it's going to happen. With Ridley bursting at the seams (after his PA reminds him in the morning), and the studio eager to get going, there's not much stopping it.
He just needs to find more push-over writers who will tell him his ideas are great and let him bend the story to his will.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi54.tinypic.com%2F34j9183.jpg&hash=31340e6b64687e8fa726f942b8a08ab7bd720e40)
The Engineers, I had this idea about them, like, it's about these pineapples. I have always found pineapples... really interesting. All these f**king spikes and shit. So I wanted to, you know, incorporate them into my story. So I came up with this... this idea there. I thought that perhaps the pineapples are the real creators of everything. You would not expect that now... *puffs cigar* ... now would you? So the f**king pineapples created everything you see. That is what the story is about. The Engineers don't know who... who the hell created them, you know. That's kind of how I wanted to continue my story.
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Aug 01, 2012, 06:28:41 PM
It's standard practice in Hollywood to sign actors on to multi-film deals, even if no sequels are planned. Just in case, y'know.
+1
I read Tom Hardy signed to Inception sequels, although the movie is pretty stand-alone..
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Aug 01, 2012, 09:38:22 PM
The Engineers, I had this idea about them, like, it's about these pineapples. I have always found pineapples... really interesting. All these f**king spikes and shit. So I wanted to, you know, incorporate them into my story. So I came up with this... this idea there. I thought that perhaps the pineapples are the real creators of everything. You would not expect that now... *puffs cigar* ... now would you? So the f**king pineapples created everything you see. That is what the story is about. The Engineers don't know who... who the hell created them, you know. That's kind of how I wanted to continue my story.
And with every post,
Prometheus becomes more and more related to SpongeBob.
Handsome Squidward=Engineer
Tiki House=Giant Head
and now PINEAPPLES! :o
Its all clear now. It all makes sense.
It's about these really important elements, yeah? These really big ideas.
What created us?
Where do we come from?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F5%2F5c%2FRidley_Scott_by_Gage_Skidmore.jpg%2F220px-Ridley_Scott_by_Gage_Skidmore.jpg&hash=c54d5d29eca93ab0897141d2392a8801c7560574)
Who does live in a pineapple under the sea?
I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
I've always wondered how a sea sponge moves. I mean, it's a sponge..in water. See, my understanding is..um..that sponges absorb. So how does it move if it's um...constantly sucking up all the...you know, absorbing the water and its surroundings. And I thought, hey, the fast food..you know, burger and fries and all that, well, they haven't had a, um...a good movie with them since...um, I think a crab and a sponge run a business...and there's this starfish who's an idiot, and he...well, the sponge and the starfish, I mean, the sponge and the crab employ the squid, who's always grumpy...you know, to create a contrast with the starfish who, um...embodies the...he lives under a rock, see, so he's, well, he's always happy.
Radiation due to nuclear tests in the Bikini Atoll.
Quote from: BANE on Aug 01, 2012, 10:07:36 PM
I've always wondered how a sea sponge moves. I mean, it's a sponge..in water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KryNGmx56ao#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KryNGmx56ao#ws)
Listen Jackie Brown, I think your in the wrong forum. Your 6 hour movie was great but it wasnt no scifi epic.
Quote from: Cvalda on Aug 01, 2012, 09:27:35 PM
I suppose now they can make up for the silly disaster that was the first film. Although considering where the story is probably going to go, the sequel will just be an even sillier disaster.
I won't actually believe it'll happen anyway til there's a green light.
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 10:23:19 PM
Listen Jackie Brown, I think your in the wrong forum. Your 6 hour movie was great but it wasnt no scifi epic.
Quote from: Cvalda on Aug 01, 2012, 09:27:35 PM
I suppose now they can make up for the silly disaster that was the first film. Although considering where the story is probably going to go, the sequel will just be an even sillier disaster.
I won't actually believe it'll happen anyway til there's a green light.
Lots of folks feel that the film wasn't worth it.
QuoteI think you're in the wrong forum.
Not really.
Jackie Brown or Prometheus?
Quote from: ShadowPred on Aug 01, 2012, 10:28:27 PM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 10:23:19 PM
Listen Jackie Brown, I think your in the wrong forum. Your 6 hour movie was great but it wasnt no scifi epic.
Quote from: Cvalda on Aug 01, 2012, 09:27:35 PM
I suppose now they can make up for the silly disaster that was the first film. Although considering where the story is probably going to go, the sequel will just be an even sillier disaster.
I won't actually believe it'll happen anyway til there's a green light.
Lots of folks feel that the film wasn't worth it.
QuoteI think you're in the wrong forum.
Not really.
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 10:37:49 PM
Jackie Brown or Prometheus?
Quote from: ShadowPred on Aug 01, 2012, 10:28:27 PM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 10:23:19 PM
Listen Jackie Brown, I think your in the wrong forum. Your 6 hour movie was great but it wasnt no scifi epic.
Quote from: Cvalda on Aug 01, 2012, 09:27:35 PM
I suppose now they can make up for the silly disaster that was the first film. Although considering where the story is probably going to go, the sequel will just be an even sillier disaster.
I won't actually believe it'll happen anyway til there's a green light.
Lots of folks feel that the film wasn't worth it.
QuoteI think you're in the wrong forum.
Not really.
Prometheus
Were you around when Prometheus was released? Lots of folks on the forum debated whether it was good or not. It shows that Prometheus isn't everyone's cup of tea, so when you said "wrong forum" that sounded pretty ignorant.
Terrible movie? yet nobody
HERE compares it to anything else other than itself. Its a gem. people may not agree on the details and thats pretty much it. The details. Thats where the devil hides.
He waits for you, to devour your soul.
Think about Miss ShadowPred, post count 21,293.
I'm acrediblesource post count 100 somethin.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Aug 01, 2012, 10:40:42 PM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 10:37:49 PM
Jackie Brown or Prometheus?
Quote from: ShadowPred on Aug 01, 2012, 10:28:27 PM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 10:23:19 PM
Listen Jackie Brown, I think your in the wrong forum. Your 6 hour movie was great but it wasnt no scifi epic.
Quote from: Cvalda on Aug 01, 2012, 09:27:35 PM
I suppose now they can make up for the silly disaster that was the first film. Although considering where the story is probably going to go, the sequel will just be an even sillier disaster.
I won't actually believe it'll happen anyway til there's a green light.
Lots of folks feel that the film wasn't worth it.
QuoteI think you're in the wrong forum.
Not really.
Prometheus
Were you around when Prometheus was released? Lots of folks on the forum debated whether it was good or not. It shows that Prometheus isn't everyone's cup of tea, so when you said "wrong forum" that sounded pretty ignorant.
what the f**k does that mean
It means ive been there before. Just not 21,293 times.
this. (throws cigar - lit for only 3 puffs)
I should retire, now that i'm a super face -- superface hugger.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Aug 01, 2012, 10:55:23 PM
what the f**k does that mean
It's not just the details that people on here complain about. There things that have to do with the pacing of the film, the editing, etc. These are not just simply details, they are HUGE aspects about the film. I for one like the movie, a lot, and I disagree with a lot of the things people say are reasons they don't like it. But you can't just say that someone is in the wrong forum because they don't like the film, because that's implying that everyone in here likes it, which is completely wrong.
Well, if it's greenlit, please let the storyline revolve around Shaw and Davids journey.
I'm not really interested in seeing what happens on Earth, how Weyland/Yutani came to be etc. I like to watch the original films in the franchise, with little idea how the company became so paranoid about their deep space activities. Some mysteries are best left as mysteries for us to speculate about...
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 01, 2012, 06:49:24 PM
Is it safe to say that the budget will be smaller this time around?
Prometheus did well but it wasnt a HUGE success...
Yes it did well, but bad word of mouth really stifled performance...be interesting to see how the Blu-Ray package is received...
Fox saying they've "got to get it right" doesn't make sense, they told us the first movie was perfect before release...they don't actually know what perfect is. I think someone in development will be equating perfect with "Christopher Nolan"...which is not a bad thing, but still not perfect ;)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1139.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn549%2Fsmarty9000%2Fprometheus6%2Foh_joy.jpg&hash=66407a2509adebf9113cbb55ad9fc5fbc15bc807)
Exciting news. There was no question that a sequel needed to be made.
Hope they get the mood of the film right this time around.
But do we really need this to be a trilogy? I mean really?
Quote from: orchidal on Aug 01, 2012, 11:38:47 PM
Hope they get the mood of the film right this time around.
Hmm, while
Prometheus was far from perfect, I felt that it really hit the nail on the head in terms of mood and atmosphere. I found it to be near perfect in that regard.
My problems with the film lied mostly in the pacing and the editing. The film would definitely benefit from an extended cut.
There was no mood or atmosphere in Prometheus, apart from the opening section of the movie. It was just a sequence of ludicrous set pieces hastily cobbled together with little coherence.
Quote from: Highland on Aug 01, 2012, 05:03:47 PM
The Tree of life was the biggest steaming pile of shit movie I've ever sat through 30 minutes of (that's how far I made it).
Highland -- we really do agree on a lot!
I've tried twice so far -- and without being completely stoned -- I think i am about 30 minutes in as well.
While I loved the visual effects -- I am absolutely lost on what the movie is about - and I just don't care either. :laugh:
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 01, 2012, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 06:15:06 PM
brother, i'm sorry to correct your grammer but its
'farther from Alien than Prometheus was'.
Thats elementary school for you.
Sorry for the typo, man. My finger must have slipped on the keyboard.
And I'm sorry to correct your spelling, but its actually 'grammar', not 'grammer'. Oh, and 'I'm' should be capitalized and there is an apostrophe in 'that's'. Learned that in elementary school :)
Nightmare -- maybe the best Internet post ever. Period. Exclamation point. Bravo. [though you both forgot its needs to be it's ;D] ahem, high school grad
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 01, 2012, 06:24:09 PM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 06:21:31 PM
I don't believe that Noomi and fassbender had already signed. I think thats BS. Plus wouldnt they have that in their WIKI page? if this is late breaking news, then we will see by end of day today.
That type of deal usually follows an extraordinary for-sight based on world wide earnings for Prometheus and sequal announcements. Plus thats the assumption that the sequel is a continuation of the last film and not a story in itself which i am personally more interested in.
Not necessarily. Marvel Studios, for example, is well known for signing cast members to multiple film contracts, just in case a sequel opportunity pops up. Fox could have done the same thing with them because they knew that they were going to survive the movie.
I believe both Noomi and Fassbender discussed their desire to do sequels in multiple interviews. And I may have even heard them say they signed up -- however -- I, like Wiki, am not acrediblesource
Quote from: 180924609 on Aug 02, 2012, 12:00:33 AM
There was no mood or atmosphere in Prometheus, apart from the opening section of the movie. It was just a sequence of ludicrous set pieces hastily cobbled together with little coherence.
Exactly. The trailers promised this epicly dark movie, and the film didn't deliver that. I don't know if it was a miscommunication between the editor about the tone or what, but I was expecting a different movie than what we got. No atmosphere. The only scene I felt tension during was the operation scene, and even then, the pacing was off. I kept thinking how we got to this moment so quick and randomly. It's kind of a bummer now re-watching the trailers and knowing we'll never feel that scary excitement watching the actual movie.
"Damon Lindelof might not be available"
Spoiler
F**K YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: 180924609 on Aug 02, 2012, 12:00:33 AM
There was no mood or atmosphere in Prometheus, apart from the opening section of the movie. It was just a sequence of ludicrous set pieces hastily cobbled together with little coherence.
and that is simply your opinion of course.
if you read the last several pages of this thread - that should be quite obvious.
what i've noticed -- is many of the most vocal haters of Prometheus no longer post that often leaving more of us percentage-wise that either liked or loved it.
hating something like a movie gets old and boring -- loving it last forever [usually]
Quote from: AmazSpiderMan1 on Aug 02, 2012, 12:21:27 AM
Quote from: 180924609 on Aug 02, 2012, 12:00:33 AM
There was no mood or atmosphere in Prometheus, apart from the opening section of the movie. It was just a sequence of ludicrous set pieces hastily cobbled together with little coherence.
Exactly. The trailers promised this epicly dark movie, and the film didn't deliver that. I don't know if it was a miscommunication between the editor about the tone or what, but I was expecting a different movie than what we got. No atmosphere. The only scene I felt tension during was the operation scene, and even then, the pacing was off. I kept thinking how we got to this moment so quick and randomly. It's kind of a bummer now re-watching the trailers and knowing we'll never feel that scary excitement watching the actual movie.
speak for yourself please.
I was speaking for the person I quoted about mood and atmosphere.
I rather enjoyed Prometheus. The film's biggest weakness are the obvious holes that were either edited out or intentionally omitted for the sake of a sequel. As fans its easy to turn our noses up at any little thing that isn't exactly the way *we* want it to be (as many prove in this topic alone), but its clear a great deal of care and thought went into the movie.
Ironically Kingdom of Heaven - also directed by Ridley Scott - suffered an oddly similar fate. The theatrical release was clearly butchered in the editing room... but the director's cut is absolute brilliance. One of my all time faves, as far as movies go.
The possibility of new writers has me interested again. I really didn't care for more of the same from Lindelof. Get some fresh eyes on it, and please get someone who isn't a 'fan boy' and who will actually call bullshit on Ridley rather than suck his toes.
I think 2015 is likely given that Scott is already working on a different film at the moment and 2014 has enough stuff being released that year. 2014 has two Marvel Studio films, Transformers 4, the third Hobbit movie, Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, Ninja Turtles, X-Men: First Class 2, How to Train Your Dragon 2, The Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part 1 and the new Godzilla film from Legendary Pictures.
Eradicate Ridley Scott and every other...human- who was responsible for the first Prometheus film. I can't take another terrible movie that has the misfortune of being attached to the Alien universe.
Quote from: Mr. Runner on Aug 02, 2012, 02:32:35 AM
Eradicate Ridley Scott and every other...human- who was responsible for the first Prometheus film. I can't take another terrible movie that has the misfortune of being attached to the Alien universe.
Prometheus IMO is an more enjoyable film then anything else alien beyond maybe the first one.
Just me. I also loved tree of life which most around here hated.
"Prometheus IMO is an more enjoyable film then anything else alien beyond maybe the first one."
Blasphemy! That's just like saying that Micheal Bay's Transformers is the best of the Transformers universes. :(
Prometheus to me was a very good film in my opinion and was much better then the AVP films for sure. We never had a Alien related film since 1997 and that was 15 years ago.
Quote from: Alienhunter15 on Aug 02, 2012, 12:22:56 AM
"Damon Lindelof might not be available"
Spoiler
F**K YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agreed 100%
As for Fox saying "we want to make sure we get it right", its practically an admittance to the fact that they didn't get it right with the first film. I enjoyed seeing Prometheus, but was overall disappointed. Personally, I would have killed to have seen Spaights original script for this. Lindelof must have spiked Scott's drink before slipping the script into his hand, because its so diced up that its too painful to even sit here and joke about. There were some great lines, but there was so much childish nonsense going on that I felt like I was watching a bad TV drama rather than an epic sci-fi horror.
I'm not sure about what I'd like to see story-wise. But as far as direction and atmosphere, I'd like to see more emphasis taken on dark horror and tension similar to what Alien had. With the trailers for the first film, we got that cool Alien siren sound effect and the trailer kept building and building in tension, but unfortunately it really did give the wrong impression about the actual film, tbh. I'd be happy with Prome' 2 regardless as long as the film is good, however (I enjoyed the first despite it being a different style to the Alien films), but I do miss the all out horror style of the original Alien.
This was expected, but it still pleases SpeedyMaxx.
Prometheus was a solid success for Fox and pretty well received. If the film was being written off as some 'error,' this would not be happening at all. Is it a perfect film? No. But it's pretty damn good. More horror, mystery and ideas than anything since the original. It was the third best film in the series, and it's the right way to go forward. Huzzah.
Quote from: Godroyah on Aug 02, 2012, 04:27:35 AM
Quote from: Alienhunter15 on Aug 02, 2012, 12:22:56 AM
"Damon Lindelof might not be available"
Spoiler
F**K YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agreed 100%
As for Fox saying "we want to make sure we get it right", its practically an admittance to the fact that they didn't get it right with the first film. I enjoyed seeing Prometheus, but was overall disappointed. Personally, I would have killed to have seen Spaights original script for this. Lindelof must have spiked Scott's drink before slipping the script into his hand, because its so diced up that its too painful to even sit here and joke about. There were some great lines, but there was so much childish nonsense going on that I felt like I was watching a bad TV drama rather than an epic sci-fi horror.
That's rubbish. It was a generally well received movie which made quite a bit of cash. What they are saying is that they want to make a worthy follow up.
Very few sequels are better than the original film.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Aug 02, 2012, 05:06:14 AM
Prometheus was a solid success for Fox and pretty well received. If the film was being written off as some 'error,' this would not be happening at all.
The people that are calling it a success are only doing so because the movie made more than it cost to make. Sometimes that has very little to do with the actual quality of the film. Prometheus was hyped and people bought into it as Ridley's grand return to sci-fi film making. There was no way it wasn't going to have a promising opening weekend. But the film suffered a sharp decline in revenue a week after it was released because the reviews were bad and people where determining that it wasn't the film they thought it would be. So building hype for a sequel might be difficult at this point. Faith might be lost for many...as it is for me. I'm not saying it wouldn't be impossible for a sequel to be successful but there might be less good faith than there was the first time around.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Aug 02, 2012, 05:06:14 AMIt was the third best film in the series, and it's the right way to go forward. Huzzah.
In the original "quadrilogy" I'd say it's the worst one. If you throw the
AvP films into the mix,
Prometheus is only better than
AvP:Requiem imo.
Quote from: Mr. Runner on Aug 02, 2012, 03:32:08 AM
"Prometheus IMO is an more enjoyable film then anything else alien beyond maybe the first one."
Blasphemy! That's just like saying that Micheal Bay's Transformers is the best of the Transformers universes. :(
I love gen one transformers as pure nostalgic crap. Dark of the moon is number two on my worst films ever list.
AvP:r is number one.
Aliens isnt my kinda movie. I'm just not into that kinda action flick.
Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Aug 02, 2012, 02:25:38 AM
I think 2015 is likely given that Scott is already working on a different film at the moment and 2014 has enough stuff being released that year. 2014 has two Marvel Studio films, Transformers 4, the third Hobbit movie, Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, Ninja Turtles, X-Men: First Class 2, How to Train Your Dragon 2, The Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part 1 and the new Godzilla film from Legendary Pictures.
More shitty sequels and remakes, yay! :D
BTW, do you think Scott will direct the sequel?
QuoteThe people that are calling it a success are only doing so because the movie made more than it cost to make.
No, it's because it cost $130m and is currently sitting on $302m, and will do a bit more business in the remaining markets it has to open in. Is it a smash hit? Probably not in box office terms. But those solid numbers coupled with the positive response from critics and audiences all spell "success".
Quote from: newbeing on Aug 01, 2012, 04:58:08 PM
Good news, but please no Spaihts... I feel like Lindelof got all the crap while Spaihts (the guy who wrote the terrible Darkest Hour before Prometheus) got off scott free.
Couldn't agree more. However I would also add Ridley into the line of ef ups into this line.
Spaihts has made solid well reviewed scripts (mostly for unproduced pictures).. but he's still renowned for being a decent writer... bit unfair to criticize him for a script of his that was quite rewritten by Lindelof.
Darkest Hour had a troubled production from what i hear...
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 10:50:51 PM
Terrible movie? yet nobody HERE compares it to anything else other than itself. Its a gem.
A gem infers it was shiny, polished and considered valuable to all. Whether you liked it or not, I think the troubled controversy surrounding its release demonstrates it far from qualified for that description.
And it got compared a
lot to the other films in the series. I'm unsure what you mean by claiming otherwise.
Quotepeople may not agree on the details and thats pretty much it. The details.
Like Hitler and Stalin disagreed "on the details"? I mean, there's a fairly huge gulf between its fans and critics... Some proclaim it to be a masterpiece and others call it a travesty. It's not people quibbling over a few minor plot points.
Quote from: orchidal on Aug 01, 2012, 11:38:47 PM
Exciting news. There was no question that a sequel needed to be made.
Hope they get the mood of the film right this time around.
But do we really need this to be a trilogy? I mean really?
It never "needed" a sequel to be made. It's clear from all the interviews, so far, that they were partly making it up as they went along and don't have some grand, '
Babylon 5'-style masterplan of where to steer it in the future.
This may be a good thing. It may also equally be bad.
We're in for a bit of a quirky ramble, no matter what happens. At least, if Sir Ridley of the Scotts is involved in any capacity other than producer. If he's the director, we'll be getting more of the same. Don't go holding your breath for greater inclusion of Giger, authentic biomechanical aesthetics, genuinely scary psychosexual horror or any of the rest - if he wanted to have included that, it would have been in this one and he's already said that he's happy with the edit we saw.
Quotetroubled controversy surrounding its release
What "troubled controversy"?
It was inevitable and I`m fine with that. I like Prometheus though it have many flaws and plot holes I hope they`ll answer in sequel. TBH I``d like them to complicate things abit and made Engineers and Space Jockeys two different races. Jockeys should be much older extinct race that Engineers are trying to emulate.
Quote from: Master on Aug 02, 2012, 09:48:09 AM
Jockeys should be much older extinct race that Engineers are trying to emulate.
I dig.
Never gonna happen, however.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 02, 2012, 07:13:46 AM
Spaihts has made solid well reviewed scripts (mostly for unproduced pictures).. but he's still renowned for being a decent writer... bit unfair to criticize him for a script of his that was quite rewritten by Lindelof.
Darkest Hour had a troubled production from what i hear...
I have no doubt that Lindelof, who wrote for the muddled Lost also had his part for mucking things up. And Scott does share some of the blame for not catching some of the WTF moments. I will be interested to see what the two scripts looked like when the blu ray is released.
Wonder how Duncan Jones would do handling the writing and/or directing a prometheus sequel. I thought Moon was a great piece of sci-fi, and had a very meager budget.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Aug 02, 2012, 09:22:18 AM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 10:50:51 PM
Terrible movie? yet nobody HERE compares it to anything else other than itself. Its a gem.
A gem infers it was shiny, polished and considered valuable to all. Whether you liked it or not, I think the troubled controversy surrounding its release demonstrates it far from qualified for that description.
And it got compared a lot to the other films in the series. I'm unsure what you mean by claiming otherwise.
Quotepeople may not agree on the details and thats pretty much it. The details.
Like Hitler and Stalin disagreed "on the details"? I mean, there's a fairly huge gulf between its fans and critics... Some proclaim it to be a masterpiece and others call it a travesty. It's not people quibbling over a few minor plot points.
Quote from: orchidal on Aug 01, 2012, 11:38:47 PM
Exciting news. There was no question that a sequel needed to be made.
Hope they get the mood of the film right this time around.
But do we really need this to be a trilogy? I mean really?
It never "needed" a sequel to be made. It's clear from all the interviews, so far, that they were partly making it up as they went along and don't have some grand, 'Babylon 5'-style masterplan of where to steer it in the future.
This may be a good thing. It may also equally be bad.
We're in for a bit of a quirky ramble, no matter what happens. At least, if Sir Ridley of the Scotts is involved in any capacity other than producer. If he's the director, we'll be getting more of the same. Don't go holding your breath for greater inclusion of Giger, authentic biomechanical aesthetics, genuinely scary psychosexual horror or any of the rest - if he wanted to have included that, it would have been in this one and he's already said that he's happy with the edit we saw.
Pretty much agree with you Xenomorphine
With no Lindelof I'm sort of vaguely interested, and even more vaguely, extremely cautiously optimistic
Re. Ridley Scott: 'he's happy with the edit we saw'......really ??!!!.........he really said that ??!!!............really ????!!!!!!!
(I cant think of a worse film that had his name attached to it than Prometheus.........had he been hanging out with George Lucas around the time he read Lindelof's script?)
Quote from: Ash 937 on Aug 02, 2012, 06:13:06 AM
Very few sequels are better than the original film.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Aug 02, 2012, 05:06:14 AM
Prometheus was a solid success for Fox and pretty well received. If the film was being written off as some 'error,' this would not be happening at all.
The people that are calling it a success are only doing so because the movie made more than it cost to make. Sometimes that has very little to do with the actual quality of the film. Prometheus was hyped and people bought into it as Ridley's grand return to sci-fi film making. There was no way it wasn't going to have a promising opening weekend. But the film suffered a sharp decline in revenue a week after it was released because the reviews were bad and people where determining that it wasn't the film they thought it would be. So building hype for a sequel might be difficult at this point. Faith might be lost for many...as it is for me. I'm not saying it wouldn't be impossible for a sequel to be successful but there might be less good faith than there was the first time around.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Aug 02, 2012, 05:06:14 AMIt was the third best film in the series, and it's the right way to go forward. Huzzah.
In the original "quadrilogy" I'd say it's the worst one. If you throw the AvP films into the mix, Prometheus is only better than AvP:Requiem imo.
I don't think that's correct. 'Success' is usually attributed to positive reaction as well as financials...
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Aug 02, 2012, 11:34:06 AM
Quote from: Master on Aug 02, 2012, 09:48:09 AM
Jockeys should be much older extinct race that Engineers are trying to emulate.
I dig.
Never gonna happen, however.
After Ridley's comments about meeting 'god' in the sequel, you never know.
Quote from: newbeing on Aug 02, 2012, 11:54:17 AM
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 02, 2012, 07:13:46 AM
Spaihts has made solid well reviewed scripts (mostly for unproduced pictures).. but he's still renowned for being a decent writer... bit unfair to criticize him for a script of his that was quite rewritten by Lindelof.
Darkest Hour had a troubled production from what i hear...
I have no doubt that Lindelof, who wrote for the muddled Lost also had his part for mucking things up. And Scott does share some of the blame for not catching some of the WTF moments. I will be interested to see what the two scripts looked like when the blu ray is released.
Wonder how Duncan Jones would do handling the writing and/or directing a prometheus sequel. I thought Moon was a great piece of sci-fi, and had a very meager budget.
But when they gave him bigger budget he made average though entertaining Source Code.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Aug 02, 2012, 09:22:18 AM
Quote from: acrediblesource on Aug 01, 2012, 10:50:51 PM
Terrible movie? yet nobody HERE compares it to anything else other than itself. Its a gem.
A gem infers it was shiny, polished and considered valuable to all. Whether you liked it or not, I think the troubled controversy surrounding its release demonstrates it far from qualified for that description.
And it got compared a lot to the other films in the series. I'm unsure what you mean by claiming otherwise.
Quotepeople may not agree on the details and thats pretty much it. The details.
Like Hitler and Stalin disagreed "on the details"? I mean, there's a fairly huge gulf between its fans and critics... Some proclaim it to be a masterpiece and others call it a travesty. It's not people quibbling over a few minor plot points.
Quote from: orchidal on Aug 01, 2012, 11:38:47 PM
Exciting news. There was no question that a sequel needed to be made.
Hope they get the mood of the film right this time around.
But do we really need this to be a trilogy? I mean really?
It never "needed" a sequel to be made. It's clear from all the interviews, so far, that they were partly making it up as they went along and don't have some grand, 'Babylon 5'-style masterplan of where to steer it in the future.
This may be a good thing. It may also equally be bad.
We're in for a bit of a quirky ramble, no matter what happens. At least, if Sir Ridley of the Scotts is involved in any capacity other than producer. If he's the director, we'll be getting more of the same. Don't go holding your breath for greater inclusion of Giger, authentic biomechanical aesthetics, genuinely scary psychosexual horror or any of the rest - if he wanted to have included that, it would have been in this one and he's already said that he's happy with the edit we saw.
Could be wrong, but I was always under the impression Prometheus was originally in 2 parts, that the second half had 'probably' already been written. Lindelof himself discussed in numerous interviews how he and Riddles deliberately evaded answering certain questions, leaving things open for a "possible" sequel. We've all debated the idea niether of them really knew the answers, but let's assume we were wrong, and there were certain things they didnt want to reveal this time. I wouldn't be suprised if a rough draft of the screenplay had already been written at least, who knows, maybe Lindelof and Scott actually did the whole thing. This film may not have been for a lot of people, reguardless of its faults, but even I found plenty to like, and it was hardly going to fail financially with all the hype anyone could see at that, in my opnion it was always guarenteed a sequel and maybe these people are already 2 steps ahead of the game.
Quote from: Salt The Fries on Aug 02, 2012, 02:08:30 PM
Quote from: newbeing on Aug 02, 2012, 11:54:17 AM
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 02, 2012, 07:13:46 AM
Spaihts has made solid well reviewed scripts (mostly for unproduced pictures).. but he's still renowned for being a decent writer... bit unfair to criticize him for a script of his that was quite rewritten by Lindelof.
Darkest Hour had a troubled production from what i hear...
I have no doubt that Lindelof, who wrote for the muddled Lost also had his part for mucking things up. And Scott does share some of the blame for not catching some of the WTF moments. I will be interested to see what the two scripts looked like when the blu ray is released.
Wonder how Duncan Jones would do handling the writing and/or directing a prometheus sequel. I thought Moon was a great piece of sci-fi, and had a very meager budget.
But when they gave him bigger budget he made average though entertaining Source Code.
Its been a while since I saw it, but I remember really liking
Source Code. Not as much as
Moon, but it was really good nonetheless.
I don't know about Duncan Jones and
Prometheus, however. His two films were solely about the humanity of the characters, while
Prometheus is more about conveying grand ideas. Still, if he was given the oppertunity to helm an
Alien or
Prometheus related film, I would love to see it.
But if anyone should come over to this franchise from
Moon, I would have to say Clint Mansell. His music and this universe would make for an excellent pairing.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 02, 2012, 02:37:33 PM
Quote from: Salt The Fries on Aug 02, 2012, 02:08:30 PM
Quote from: newbeing on Aug 02, 2012, 11:54:17 AM
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 02, 2012, 07:13:46 AM
Spaihts has made solid well reviewed scripts (mostly for unproduced pictures).. but he's still renowned for being a decent writer... bit unfair to criticize him for a script of his that was quite rewritten by Lindelof.
Darkest Hour had a troubled production from what i hear...
I have no doubt that Lindelof, who wrote for the muddled Lost also had his part for mucking things up. And Scott does share some of the blame for not catching some of the WTF moments. I will be interested to see what the two scripts looked like when the blu ray is released.
Wonder how Duncan Jones would do handling the writing and/or directing a prometheus sequel. I thought Moon was a great piece of sci-fi, and had a very meager budget.
But when they gave him bigger budget he made average though entertaining Source Code.
Its been a while since I saw it, but I remember really liking Source Code. Not as much as Moon, but it was really good nonetheless.
I don't know about Duncan Jones and Prometheus, however. His two films were solely about the humanity of the characters, while Prometheus is more about conveying grand ideas. Still, if he was given the oppertunity to helm an Alien or Prometheus related film, I would love to see it.
But if anyone should come over to this franchise from Moon, I would have to say Clint Mansell. His music and this universe would make for an excellent pairing.
Agreed. I don't know if Moon would have had the impact it did without that soundtrack.
I think Prometheus kind of lacked the humanity of the characters element or at lease they felt glossed over. I never really felt Prometheus met that EPIC that Ridley was promising and rather found myself wanting to know more about the character's and their reaction to the grand discovery that was placed before them. I'd like to see them take that conversation that Halloway had with David and expand upon that, but I feel like they're probably going to take the more action oriented route over the more philosophical one.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 02, 2012, 02:37:33 PM
I don't know about Duncan Jones and Prometheus, however. His two films were solely about the humanity of the characters, while Prometheus is more about conveying grand ideas. Still, if he was given the oppertunity to helm an Alien or Prometheus related film, I would love to see it.
But if anyone should come over to this franchise from Moon, I would have to say Clint Mansell. His music and this universe would make for an excellent pairing.
Yes, I agree with Duncan Jones being a very promising filmmaker after MOON & SOURCE CODE. He could be a very interesting candidate for PROMETHEUS 2. And Clint Mansell, I swear I hear his cues when watching PROMETHEUS. His score for Arronofski's FOUNTAIN is dark, epic and mesmerizing.
I wonder if Prometheus 2 will end up leading up to Alien? My guess is that they will have Prometheus be a trilogy.
Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Aug 02, 2012, 07:46:24 PM
I wonder if Prometheus 2 will end up leading up to Alien? My guess is that they will have Prometheus be a trilogy.
Can't remember the exact quote but its been said the sequel will move away from the Alien films and a 3rd would be needed to bridge the gap between the two
I assume the sequel will follow mostly David/Shaw and some bits on LV-233 as I doubt they went to the trouble of putting the Deacon in without thinking of using it in a sequel!
Found this on another site. A few comments seem new to me.
Prometheus Sequel Slated For 2014/2015 Release
The eagerly anticipated follow-up to the blockbuster is being actively pursued by studio Fox but co-writer Damon Lindelof may not be available to work on it due to scheduling conflicts.
Fox told The Hollywood Reporter: "[Sir Ridley Scott and Fox] are actively pushing ahead with a follow-up," and looking to a 2014 or 2015 release.
Ridley has previously hinted at the name for the sequel which is expected to again feature Michael Fassbender and Noomi Rapace.
When discussing what he envisages in the second movie, he referenced the film's original working title, 'Paradise', suggesting it will be used next time.
He said: "From the very beginning, I was working from a premise that lent itself to a sequel."
"I really don't want to meet God in the first one. I want to leave it open to Shaw saying, 'I don't want to go back to where I came from. I want to go where they came from.'"
"I'd love to explore where [Dr. Shaw] goes next and what does she do when she gets there because if it is paradise, paradise can't be what you think it is."
The director views paradise in his movie as "sinister and ominous".
He added: "Because [the Engineers] are such aggressive f*****s. I always had it in there that the God-like creature that you will see actually is not so nice, and is certainly not God."
http://www.contactmusic.com/news/prometheus-sequel-slated-for-20142015-release_1381807 (http://www.contactmusic.com/news/prometheus-sequel-slated-for-20142015-release_1381807)
I still think 2015 is likely since it been a few years since the first film came out and that will give them time to work on the movie. If go for a 2014 release date then Fox will try to rush out it as fast as possible given that we are half way through the year.
Quote from: Salt The Fries on Aug 02, 2012, 02:08:30 PM
Quote from: newbeing on Aug 02, 2012, 11:54:17 AM
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 02, 2012, 07:13:46 AM
Spaihts has made solid well reviewed scripts (mostly for unproduced pictures).. but he's still renowned for being a decent writer... bit unfair to criticize him for a script of his that was quite rewritten by Lindelof.
Darkest Hour had a troubled production from what i hear...
I have no doubt that Lindelof, who wrote for the muddled Lost also had his part for mucking things up. And Scott does share some of the blame for not catching some of the WTF moments. I will be interested to see what the two scripts looked like when the blu ray is released.
Wonder how Duncan Jones would do handling the writing and/or directing a prometheus sequel. I thought Moon was a great piece of sci-fi, and had a very meager budget.
But when they gave him bigger budget he made average though entertaining Source Code.
It got 91% in Rottentomatoes! That means it close to being excellent!
This may be a strategy on part of Fox's considering that Avatar is being pushed indefinitely to 2015. 2014-15 could be a scifi segue to this all things considered.
James Cameron will be doing the first non R movie sequel, and who knows it may be kick ass or it may need the reinforcement (help) of other movies in it's genre.
Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Aug 02, 2012, 09:12:48 PM
I still think 2015 is likely since it been a few years since the first film came out and that will give them time to work on the movie. If go for a 2014 release date then Fox will try to rush out it as fast as possible given that we are half way through the year.
Quote from: SM on Aug 02, 2012, 09:36:11 AM
What "troubled controversy"?
Well, the general audience reaction has hardly been smooth sailing, has it? :)
Quote from: JKS1 on Aug 02, 2012, 12:04:14 PM
Re. Ridley Scott: 'he's happy with the edit we saw'......really ??!!!.........he really said that ??!!!............really ????!!!!!!!
It was in an interview where he was asked if there was going to be much added for the Blu-Ray release. He said that there would be lots of stuff included as extras, but that he wasn't planning on some kind of radically new edition, because he was happy with the way it is.
Quote from: 180924609 on Aug 02, 2012, 08:25:15 PM
The director views paradise in his movie as "sinister and ominous".
Is that like how he predicted this one would "scare the shit out of you"? :)
QuoteWell, the general audience reaction has hardly been smooth sailing, has it?
You tell me, has it?
Been pretty positive overall as far as I can tell. Hardly "controversial" or "troubled".
Quote from: SM on Aug 03, 2012, 03:07:13 AM
QuoteWell, the general audience reaction has hardly been smooth sailing, has it?
You tell me, has it?
Been pretty positive overall as far as I can tell. Hardly "controversial" or "troubled".
Ya. I'd say the general audience reaction has been mostly positive. That's not just taking facts into account. Everyone of my "regular" friends really liked it when I asked them. It seems to be only at higher levels the arguments start. If you go to the Blu Ray forums it has a 90% popularity rating.
Definition of regular - Someone who does not collect toys, comic books or hang out on nerd site's all day like me..... ;)
According to Boxoffice Mojo Prometheus is the highest grossing movie for Fox this year, so far. Which I am not surprize they want a second one to happen but I dout it will get a budget on par with the first.
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Aug 03, 2012, 04:33:15 AM
According to Boxoffice Mojo Prometheus is the highest grossing movie for Fox this year, so far. Which I am not surprize they want a second one to happen but I dout it will get a budget on par with the first.
I'd agree with that. I could see it getting around 100 - 120 mill. Basically lower or slightly under.
Very unlikely it would get more. Could depend on how the Blu Ray goes and the like.
I guess there are slight savings to be made though on top of that. Costumes, ship interiors, not making the same mistakes again etc etc
If it's just Nooms and Fassbender with Ian Whyte as the Engineers, casting costs would be well down.
A bunch Ian Whyte Engineers fighting off Proto-aliens!
Played by Tom Woodruff Jnr...
:-X
Oh God, my prediction is coming true :D
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 02, 2012, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: Eva on Aug 02, 2012, 07:02:37 PM
BANNED for even contemplating taking relationship advice from PHANTOM ;)
BANNED for having a name that will eventually be used when the Alien and Prometheus franchises cross over.
EVA: Engineers vs Aliens
Coming soon to a fanfiction forum near you
Quote from: SM on Aug 03, 2012, 05:39:38 AM
Played by Tom Woodruff Jnr...
:-X
LOL, the Proto-Alien DOES look like something ADI would design. All organic-looking and such.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m65cd66lWS1rxhm6yo1_500.jpg&hash=7be1267b0b1a179216e2a3b206198646f4e45cc7)
And pretty cool (or, at the very least, interesting) looking...lets not forget that :D
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Aug 03, 2012, 04:33:15 AM
According to Boxoffice Mojo Prometheus is the highest grossing movie for Fox this year, so far. Which I am not surprize they want a second one to happen but I dout it will get a budget on par with the first.
Domestic, in total Ice Age made double and a bit more.
Anyway, that is actually really bad for FOX.
Quote from: SM on Aug 03, 2012, 03:07:13 AM
You tell me, has it?
Been pretty positive overall as far as I can tell. Hardly "controversial" or "troubled".
Not from what I've seen, no. YMMV.
Like what?
Quote from: ShadowPred on Aug 03, 2012, 05:44:25 AM
LOL, the Proto-Alien DOES look like something ADI would design. All organic-looking and such.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m65cd66lWS1rxhm6yo1_500.jpg
eh The Deacon > all the fleshy ADI designs.
blue shark-like skin ftw.
The original chest burster looked pretty fleshy at birth too (except for it's chrome teeth).
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.chud.com%2F9%2F90%2F908ba31c_chest-burster.jpg&hash=63c4326b6e1172abcd40c221f62c14c1345f8453)
I don't see why the Deacon couldn't potentially grow in to a bio-mechanical nightmare too.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Aug 03, 2012, 05:44:25 AM
LOL, the Proto-Alien DOES look like something ADI would design.
Always struck me more as a Huante-influenced design. He did have his part in the creative process.
i actually dont want the deacon to be a biomechanical creature in it's adulthood.... the shark like skin is one of the aspects that make it unique... giving it the traditional giger look would go against what makes it interesting for me.
i do, however, want more biomech monstruosities in the space jockey world though. The engineer homeworld better look like something of a Giger nightmare.. or they will lose an amazing opportunity to have a large Giger-designed planet on film. :P
They could pull off a "Darkseed" and license some of Giger's artworks to use on the movie as set designs. :P
If the deacon is derived from xenomorph experimentation or is related in a similar way I would like to see bio-mechanical aspects in the adult design. That said, I certainly don't want to see an Alien clone. That would be a totally wasted opportunity in my opinion.
Especially since, supposedly, the Alien has been 'squeezed out dry' (or whatever Scott said). :P
ugh.. surely i'm not the only one that disagrees about that ;)
You're certainly not!
The creature in Alien is a perfect movie monster imo but I'd actually still rather see Scott attempt to do something new with the Alien instead of covering the same ground. That's part of the reason I like the Deacon design. I just wish it wasn't a pre-credits fan service and was instead an integral part of the story. I wanted to see that bad boy develop into the monster that had Space Jockey's running for their lives. Maybe we'll see that in the next film.
There's enough room in one story for them to bring back the deacon..and the original Giger design ;)
Shaw is in a spaceship loaded with the black fluid..- they can use that as a weapon of revenge against the engineers... (unleashing new trilobites and deacons) ...the original facehugger can be a different bioweapon that Shaw stumbles unto in their planet... lots of room to play with.
Oh yeah, there are plenty of directions they can head in with both the new elements that Prometheus introduced to the universe and the old. In regards to a sequel I do hope is that Scott allows for a more coherent script that knows which questions to ask and what holes to fill (Like Cameron did with Aliens). But my biggest worry is that Fox may try and force some of the more traditional aspects of the Alien series on him instead of allowing him to explore these new landscapes and ideas. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if that's how Scott sees the natural progression of the series but I don't want to see a Giger Alien shoe-horned in to the narrative. It deserves more than that.
There's no way ADI could design something as aesthetically creepy and thought-provoking like the Deacon. Their track record in the Alien saga consistently shows them taking something good, stripping them of all the unearthly and interesting design qualities, and putting in place their own brand of generic monster shit.
erhmm.. ADI does what the director commands.. and what the budget allows..
they did well on the Runner in Alien 3 (minus the poor cgi work).. it's my 2nd favourite alien creature ever ;)
Look at Pumpkinhead, or whatever it is; it's almost the same design as the A:Res aliens. ADI definitely put their own touch on things.
I don't believe it's always the director with total control of designs. They may ask for a smooth head or rigid head, or whatever else, but what they get in return could be completely different to how they pictured and they'd probably just have to settle for something eventually.
Yeah i noticed the pumpkinhead resemblance....
if Jeunet, Anderson or the Strause brothers wanted more biomechanical elements in the movie... they would surely have asked specifically for that..
alas.. they didnt seem to care.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Aug 03, 2012, 10:32:05 AM
Especially since, supposedly, the Alien has been 'squeezed out dry' (or whatever Scott said). :P
...It has.
>^>
It certainly has not. Its potential has just not been used to its full extent since and including the third film -- and before anyone jumps on me, I love/like all the films with the exception of the second AvP film --. I'm surprised Scott didn't realize that.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 03, 2012, 11:42:37 AM
(minus the poor cgi work)
The Runner was a combination of a suit and a go-motion rod puppet. The only cgi parts are the cracks on the dome at the end and the newborn creature in the assembly cut.
Quote from: PsyKore on Aug 03, 2012, 11:52:51 AM
I don't believe it's always the director with total control of designs.
Oh yes, that's entirely how it works out. If the Director does not approve a design, it is changed. Example? Let's go back to when
Alien3 was in production. Fincher wanted the literal mechanical parts -- real pipes, real tubes, you name it -- out of the Alien. ADI then applied the detailing mostly with airbrushing. Fincher wanted the back tubes out of the Alien. ADI designed an Alien without back tubes. Fincher saw the Alien without back tubes, completely changed the idea around and wanted the back tubes. ADI added the back tubes. Fincher saw the Alien with the back tubes and decided to revert that completely and remove them.
The only
real similarity between Pumpkinhead and the Resurrection Aliens, too, is the fact they have protruding ribcages and they're humanoid in some way. The protruding ribcage seems to be some kind of ADI trademark since other monster designs of theirs have them (namely the Apes from
Evolution).
The point I'm making is the style of the design. Directors can't control that. Think if Stan Winston had designed the A:RES aliens; they'd probably be very different from ADI's style. They both may adhere to the directors requests but you're still gonna end up with different looks depending on who's designing. This is why I think if ADI did the Deacon, it'd be not as good.
Quote from: PsyKore on Aug 03, 2012, 12:07:39 PM
The point I'm making is the style of the design. Directors can't control that.
They can and do -- hence the example above.
Quote from: PsyKore on Aug 03, 2012, 12:07:39 PM
This is why I think if ADI did the Deacon, it'd be not as good.
No way to tell.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Aug 03, 2012, 12:18:30 PM
Quote from: PsyKore on Aug 03, 2012, 12:07:39 PM
The point I'm making is the style of the design. Directors can't control that.
They can and do -- hence the example above.
Think if Stan Winston had designed the A:RES aliens; they'd probably be very different from ADI's style. They both may adhere to the directors requests but you're still gonna end up with different looks depending on who's designing.
Yes they would. Don't see how it has anything to do with 'ADI can't design something like the Deacon' or 'it's ADI's fault for [supposedly] turning the Alien into a generic monster'.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Aug 03, 2012, 12:31:16 PM
Yes they would. Don't see how it has anything to do with 'ADI can't design something like the Deacon' or 'it's ADI's fault for [supposedly] turning the Alien into a generic monster'.
Because some design teams design better than others, like any art form. ADI have shown pretty horrid design work throughout their time.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Aug 03, 2012, 12:31:16 PM
Yes they would. Don't see how it has anything to do with 'ADI can't design something like the Deacon' or 'it's ADI's fault for [supposedly] turning the Alien into a generic monster'.
Your not getting what he's saying. They do take instructions but a perfect example would be the Predator. KNB couldn't even copy stan winston's version in Predators, it still looked off.
The designers use specific techniques and textures to create. It's like asking two people to draw a portrait. They will be very similar but one could well be better than the other.
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Aug 03, 2012, 08:21:01 AM
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Aug 03, 2012, 04:33:15 AM
According to Boxoffice Mojo Prometheus is the highest grossing movie for Fox this year, so far. Which I am not surprize they want a second one to happen but I dout it will get a budget on par with the first.
Domestic, in total Ice Age made double and a bit more.
Anyway, that is actually really bad for FOX.
you are comparing a r rated horror sci-fi that only gets a 18+ audience and not to many females, to a familly movie where the audience is comprised of kids, parents,teens,young adults amd older folks.
i'm thinking if they make a sequel, they will either make it with the same budget as this one but with a hard r rating this time, or a pg13 movie but with bigger budget to atract the massive teen population and make more money this time
Another huge Fox project is Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, which if it's story timelines indicate, it will be another philosophically shocking movie. So it may be an Apes, Avatar and Aliens summer.
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Aug 03, 2012, 08:21:01 AM
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Aug 03, 2012, 04:33:15 AM
According to Boxoffice Mojo Prometheus is the highest grossing movie for Fox this year, so far. Which I am not surprize they want a second one to happen but I dout it will get a budget on par with the first.
Domestic, in total Ice Age made double and a bit more.
Anyway, that is actually really bad for FOX.
Why do people keep on saying that given that the movie made over 300 million worldwide? People forget that R rated films don't make that much money unless they have a lot of hype behind them (300) or they are sequels (Matrix's 2 and 3).
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Aug 03, 2012, 12:02:37 PM
It certainly has not. Its potential has just not been used to its full extent since and including the third film -- and before anyone jumps on me, I love/like all the films with the exception of the second AvP film --. I'm surprised Scott didn't realize that.
What's being referred to is that the creature just isn't scary anymore. It's been so over-played and put out in the open that nobody finds it frightening or its presence to feel 'alien' anymore. Well, aside from the first movie, and to it's best, in Aliens and Alien3 (luckily the movie didn't focus on the creature as much). Anything beyond that has attempted to add new layers just exploited what had already been established, and could
hardly be taken seriously. The Deacon had/has that very problem.
The creature has effectively gone from terrifying to "Oh".
The Deacon is the result of very specific directions given by Ridley Scott. No one can say he could not have given ADI the same directions or that they could have
not come up with something like it.
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 03, 2012, 07:20:48 PM
Well, aside from the first movie, and to it's best, in Aliens and Alien3
Do not get me wrong, as I love
Alien3, but it arguably was the start of the 'unscary' Alien. Aside from the brilliant design, the Runner wasn't used as well, and didn't have the same presence or menace as the Aliens from the first two films.
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 03, 2012, 07:20:48 PM
The creature has effectively gone from terrifying to "Oh".
That'd be because there has not been a 'terrifying'
Alien film after the second one, as no one managed
yet to replicate, or even come close to (which is undoubtely not impossible) the wonder of
Alien and
Aliens.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Aug 03, 2012, 07:43:15 PM
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 03, 2012, 07:20:48 PM
Well, aside from the first movie, and to it's best, in Aliens and Alien3
Do not get me wrong, as I love Alien3, but it arguably was the start of the 'unscary' Alien. Aside from the brilliant design, the Runner wasn't used as well, and didn't have the same presence or menace as the Aliens from the first two films.
I think we could both agree there, but that would be because it had two options: follow the similar behaviors and presentation of the previous aliens and lose most of the effect or deviate and lose the effect altogether. Each movie has moved farther and farther away from scary, and that's because the creature only has so much steam in it. The first movie was clearly meant to be a horror film, but a large part of that was with the stunningly horrific alien qualities of the creature and it's dark sexual undertones. Now it's "been there done that", and during re-watches the fear comes from that creature originality and the masterful filmmaking that went with it.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Aug 03, 2012, 07:43:15 PM
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 03, 2012, 07:20:48 PM
The creature has effectively gone from terrifying to "Oh".
That'd be because there has not been a 'terrifying' Alien film after the second one, as no one managed yet to replicate, or even come close to (which is undoubtely not impossible) the wonder of Alien and Aliens.
And the point is that it can't be replicated because that level of fear that came from the creature was a one time thing, and worked seeing the creature in a different light in Aliens. No matter how you capture the alien now, we'd have already seen it. All the jump scares and all the dark lighting in the world wouldn't do it again. It's time to move on, and that's the point. For the same creature, it's undoubtedly impossible.
Unless you're a fan of repetition, it's time to move on and contribute to the universe instead of rehash. One of the best things about Prometheus was that there was no xenomorph presence to affect the story, and therefore made it feel like something new.
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 03, 2012, 08:04:39 PM
Each movie has moved farther and farther away from scary, and that's because the creature only has so much steam in it.
No, that's due to a combination of factors which includes the misuse of the creature -- not the fact it does not have potential anymore.
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 03, 2012, 08:04:39 PM
For the same creature, it's undoubtedly impossible.
Unlikely, yes, because coming close to that level is pretty difficult.
Impossible? That's a pretty absolute.
I am not saying
anything against bringing new dishes to the table; I am the first to welcome the expansion of a universe, as long as I like what's being offered. I like the Deacon and a film revolving around it would be interesting.
The Alien still has its charisma and cosmic terror embedded into it, though. It just needs the right talents.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblueberrybells.blogg.se%2Fimages%2F2010%2Ffacedesk_108484377.gif&hash=842d28508ced23257ac5b51c63f7324aa5f0d0eb)
This is what I get for coming to the Prometheus section.
Differing opinions are boggling indeed.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Aug 03, 2012, 08:20:02 PM
Differing opinions are boggling indeed.
It's more a matter of...
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...coping with denial.
The ADI comments are interesting. My own first reaction to the Deacon was that it looked like a prototype OF the ADI design, disregarding the Giger and other interpretations of the basic anatomy if favour of a fleshier, more streamlined look (though of course the idea that it's a prototype of any 'xeno' is problematic).
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 03, 2012, 08:23:03 PM
It's more a matter of...
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwhtwlQF091r6aoq4o1_250.gif
...coping with denial.
As much as it's a matter of rigid thinking.
Spoiler
In other words, none of all of this.
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 03, 2012, 08:04:39 PM
And the point is that it can't be replicated because that level of fear that came from the creature was a one time thing, and worked seeing the creature in a different light in Aliens. No matter how you capture the alien now, we'd have already seen it. All the jump scares and all the dark lighting in the world wouldn't do it again. It's time to move on, and that's the point. For the same creature, it's undoubtedly impossible.
eh. disagree.
None of the films after Aliens have been scary because... surprise, surprise.. they were badly written and badly directed.. and for the most part they assumed that audiences would be instantly scared of the alien just because they were seeing it (seriously lazy thinking) on the screen.. and not, you know.. due to the scary shit that he should actually be doing.
The fact that most of it's victims after Aliens were poorly characterised redshirts, killed in poorly written attacks also didnt help.
i think SIL said it best.. paraphrased:
Quoteit's a huge, acid bleeding, freudian monstruosity.. if you cant make it scary, you are a shit filmmaker.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 03, 2012, 10:26:02 PM
None of the films after Aliens have been scary because... surprise, surprise.. they were badly written and badly directed
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Of course, your mileage may vary on wether ali3n was scary or not.
happy, Cvalda? :P
Whether it's scary or not isn't so much the issue as it is being 'badly written and badly directed", the latter of which is especially untrue. ;)
true, true. Ali3n had it's good moments due to fincher's directing and some of the actors..... it's just that only 1 of them involved scares with the xeno. :P
mea culpa and all that.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 03, 2012, 10:26:02 PM
eh. disagree.
None of the films after Aliens have been scary because... surprise, surprise.. they were badly written and badly directed.. and for the most part they assumed that audiences would be instantly scared of the alien just because they were seeing it (seriously lazy thinking) on the screen.. and not, you know.. due to the scary shit that he should actually be doing.
The fact that most of it's victims after Aliens were poorly characterised redshirts, killed in poorly written attacks also didnt help.
Yes - in the same way that it's still possible to make a scary movie with a ghost or a killer with a knife... but I don't think that's the point. One of the things that made
Alien so interesting was the mystery of the xeno... never really knowing what it looked like, never knowing what it was going to do. That was a big facet of the original movies suspense. There is absolutely no mystery left in that design/or portrayed lifecycle of the xeno now... the design is spent, the concept is passe... just like it is for the look of Karloff's Frankenstein's monster or Lugosi's slicked back hair and tuxedo wearing Dracula. It's not enough to simply put the creature in a new situation, you have to do something different with the creature itself. And if the creature has been used in virtually every scenario, it's time to do something new.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 03, 2012, 10:41:26 PM
true, true. Ali3n had it's good moments due to fincher's directing and some of the actors..... it's just that only 1 of them involved scares with the xeno. :P
mea culpa and all that.
All the best bits of
Alien 3 (and there are many good bits) don't involve the xeno at all - IMHO. I think that's reflective of how the xeno was wearing thin even by the 3rd outing.
Quote from: Darth Vile on Aug 03, 2012, 10:53:43 PM
All the best bits of Alien 3 (and there are many good bits) don't involve the xeno at all - IMHO. I think that's reflective of how the xeno was wearing thin even by the 3rd outing.
i think that's more reflective of how poor the script actually was... the Runner was only scary for me when he killed Clemens... because we had already spent time with him... but even then.. his death was so fast that the fear it generated had barely any time to really linger in the audience.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 03, 2012, 10:14:26 AM
eh The Deacon > all the fleshy ADI designs.
When ADI are given the right direction, they can do amazing work. Some of their very best stuff never even made it to the screen: The Superfacehugger ('
Alien 3') and unused Green Goblin ('
Spiderman') are cases in point.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 03, 2012, 11:55:30 AM
if Jeunet, Anderson or the Strause brothers wanted more biomechanical elements in the movie... they would surely have asked specifically for that..
alas.. they didnt seem to care.
The brothers had some odd ideas about biomechanical aesthetics, if what they espoused in interviews and posted in this forum are anything to go by. While Jeunet deliberately wanted a fleshy look.
Anderson, though, was unfortunately stuck with existing props to hand. From what I remember, they didn't have the money to make up lots of new Alien suits and that meant they had to work with the ones from '
Alien Resurrection'.
Quote from: Space Sweeper on Aug 03, 2012, 07:20:48 PM
What's being referred to is that the creature just isn't scary anymore. It's been so over-played and put out in the open that nobody finds it frightening or its presence to feel 'alien' anymore.
That's more to do with it being handled badly on screen, ever since after 1986. There are some parts of '
Alien 3' and '
Alien Versus Predator' where you can see glimmers of inspiration, but... The things never come close to the menace they conveyed in the first two films (not helped terribly much by the relatively unconvincing special effects) - as proven by how people can watch those, to this very day and
still be chilled for the first time. Something I tested with a friend of mine, just recently, who had never seen any of them and experienced that very result. :)
Ironically, the most Alien-like portrayal in '
Alien Resurrection' didn't even come from anyone wearing the costumes. It was Sigourney Weaver's primal, instinctive turn as the part-Alien Ripley clone.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Aug 03, 2012, 10:26:02 PM
i think SIL said it best.. paraphrased:
Quoteit's a huge, acid bleeding, freudian monstruosity.. if you cant make it scary, you are a shit filmmaker.
Hah, yes!
Essentially, what made the original two films so effective in their portrayal of the creatures are timeless themes which will never be exhausted. They just need to be executed right.
Same goes for other iconic examples, like Terminators and Daleks. Both of which exist in properties which have become rife with parody, but can
easily return to their original status of dread and foreboding if the right people are involved. These things remain classics for a reason and that reason is usually that they have yet to be bettered.
Quote from: Darth Vile on Aug 03, 2012, 10:53:43 PM
And if the creature has been used in virtually every scenario, it's time to do something new.
By the same token, simply putting a new creature design on screen will encounter
precisely the same problems. That's not how you remedy a situation like that. You find ways to make the old stuff more
effective and, in the case of this series, more disturbing. Think up new situational ideas. You don't solve it by taking away your star and deciding a giant starfish would somehow make it refreshing.
I think Alien 3 was scarier than Aliens. The score especially seems to pump up the heat and creeps me out a little.
Each to their own.
I agree!
The score is haunting and beautiful. To this day I still dont know how Goldenthal managed to create such a rich canvas of original sound. Christ only knows why it wasnt nominated for an oscar.
Quote from: 180924609 on Aug 04, 2012, 12:06:17 AM
Christ only knows why it wasnt nominated for an oscar.
Same reason his jaw dropping work on
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within didn't get nominated--the film was released in the Summer and not well received. Also, the Academy has terrible taste in scores in general. When Goldenthal eventually won the Oscar for
Frida--his safest, most musically unadventurous work--it was pretty telling.
QuoteBy the same token, simply putting a new creature design on screen will encounter precisely the same problems.
So anything new is automatically screwed.
Right. ::)
Quote from: Cvalda on Aug 04, 2012, 12:10:08 AM
Quote from: 180924609 on Aug 04, 2012, 12:06:17 AM
Christ only knows why it wasnt nominated for an oscar.
Same reason his jaw dropping work on Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within didn't get nominated--the film was released in the Summer and not well received. Also, the Academy has terrible taste in scores in general. When Goldenthal eventually won the Oscar for Frida--his safest, most musically unadventurous work--it was pretty telling.
Cool - I need to have a listen to those other works by Elliot Goldenthal. Thanks.
I somehow missed all of his later stuff and only recently realised that he had suffered a serious brain injury. Sad indeed. Glad he pulled himself through ok and is still creating music.
The music was beautiful. Possibly the best in the entire series. I just wasn't engaged by anything in the film (aside from the starting and ending credit sequences). Certainly not scared/horrified/unsettled; which has always been one of the main critiques of the third film - that it's meant to be a horror film and fails to do any scaring (admittedly, for most people; there are probably some who felt otherwise). Something apparently shared with 'Prometheus'.
Incidentally, if you run the 'Alien 3' and 'Interview With the Vampire' soundtracks back to back, it's like one huge score for a single film. Some differences, but... Very similar in style.
Definitely great news! Prometheus gave us some answers but more questions. So I hope the next movies answers A LOT of those questions.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Aug 03, 2012, 08:23:25 AM
Quote from: SM on Aug 03, 2012, 03:07:13 AM
You tell me, has it?
Been pretty positive overall as far as I can tell. Hardly "controversial" or "troubled".
Not from what I've seen, no. YMMV.
You've clearly not seen very much. There's a big wide world outside these cloisters of rage.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Aug 04, 2012, 01:48:08 AM
The music was beautiful. Possibly the best in the entire series. I just wasn't engaged by anything in the film (aside from the starting and ending credit sequences). Certainly not scared/horrified/unsettled; which has always been one of the main critiques of the third film - that it's meant to be a horror film and fails to do any scaring (admittedly, for most people; there are probably some who felt otherwise). Something apparently shared with 'Prometheus'.
Incidentally, if you run the 'Alien 3' and 'Interview With the Vampire' soundtracks back to back, it's like one huge score for a single film. Some differences, but... Very similar in style.
Haha, I always noticed the sound effect used when Cruise bites Pitt on the ship in the beginning sounded exactly like whenever the Alien showed up behind somebody in "Alien 3". It's a very specific cue.
Excellent news!!! ;D
Quote from: Godroyah on Aug 02, 2012, 04:27:35 AM
As for Fox saying "we want to make sure we get it right", its practically an admittance to the fact that they didn't get it right with the first film.
no. ::)
God it's not bloody hard.
Use more appropriate music and sound design that doesn't constantly try and force the audience into feeling "oh booooyyyy this is EPIC Duuuuude". Either make an atmospheric horror movie or make a hard science fiction movie. The two obviously don't seem to mesh and just cause each other to fizzle out.
Have more focused plotting. Having groups of characters all over the place that you have to keep cutting to and from just disintegrates the forward momentum of the plotting. If you are going to try and do this, watch Magnolia, notice how that movie uses music to weave a flowing tapestry that handles a several story lines simultaneously.
Scrub up the creature CGI.
Don't have so many plot holes, and don't make me pay 9 euro only to get 50% of a story. If you are going to give the audience a half assed story then make sure that you make up for it by having the movie dripping in mood and atmosphere.
Stop being so up your own arses. The audience is smarter than you think. Stop treating us like bufoons. Use your millions of dollars to make something highly artistic and forward reaching that cuts to the core of human feelings.
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 04, 2012, 01:49:14 PMStop being so up your own arses. The audience is smarter than you think.
Are they really? There are people about who think that
Prometheus is a masterpiece of science fiction. ;)
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Aug 04, 2012, 02:06:30 PM
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 04, 2012, 01:49:14 PMStop being so up your own arses. The audience is smarter than you think.
Are they really? There are people about who think that Prometheus is a masterpiece of science fiction. ;)
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I would agree that Ridley Scott and Co. 'getting it right' as it were is something that was and is absolutely doable, and there's no excuse that the film was filled with so many nonsensical plot holes. Scott's pretty arrogant, and in some ways, the failings of Prometheus serve him right.
On the other hand, I'm of the opinion that what Prometheus got right....got it masterfully right!
f**k off with this plot hole nonsense. Jesus. You don't know what the term means.
Quote from: SM on Aug 04, 2012, 03:32:33 AM
You've clearly not seen very much. There's a big wide world outside these cloisters of rage.
I'm aware. That's precisely what's formed my view of the reaction.
The general reaction from critics seemed to be "A good ride, but it's got some problems. Not bad, just not as great as it thinks it is."
Quote from: BANE on Aug 04, 2012, 07:22:38 PM
f**k off with this plot hole nonsense. Jesus. You don't know what the term means.
plot holes isnt the right term to use when talking about prometheus, some points are unexplained but there are no holes.
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 04, 2012, 01:49:14 PM
God it's not bloody hard.
Use more appropriate music and sound design that doesn't constantly try and force the audience into feeling "oh booooyyyy this is EPIC Duuuuude". Either make an atmospheric horror movie or make a hard science fiction movie. The two obviously don't seem to mesh and just cause each other to fizzle out.
Have more focused plotting. Having groups of characters all over the place that you have to keep cutting to and from just disintegrates the forward momentum of the plotting. If you are going to try and do this, watch Magnolia, notice how that movie uses music to weave a flowing tapestry that handles a several story lines simultaneously.
Scrub up the creature CGI.
Don't have so many plot holes, and don't make me pay 9 euro only to get 50% of a story. If you are going to give the audience a half assed story then make sure that you make up for it by having the movie dripping in mood and atmosphere.
Stop being so up your own arses. The audience is smarter than you think. Stop treating us like bufoons. Use your millions of dollars to make something highly artistic and forward reaching that cuts to the core of human feelings.
the creature CGI was very good, apart from a couple shots of the trilobite. actually, after reading through the whole of your post, it seems your not part of this 'smart' audience.
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 04, 2012, 01:49:14 PM
Stop being so up your own arses. The audience is smarter than you think. Stop treating us like bufoons.
Unfortunately audiences aren't that bright (or to be generous - not that discerning)... generally speaking that is. Audiences tend to get the movies they deserve... They want to be entertained by something with little to think about. Look at the box office stats for most popular films this year...
Quote from: BANE on Aug 04, 2012, 07:22:38 PM
f**k off with this plot hole nonsense. Jesus. You don't know what the term means.
You might want to remind yourself of the definition, there are a good amount of plot holes in this movie.
I think I would have enjoyed Prometheus a lot more had the music/editing and pacing been more focused and atmospheric. I feel like those aspects of the production let it down and opened the gateway to all the other criticisms. For myself anyway.
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 05, 2012, 12:49:10 PM
I think I would have enjoyed Prometheus a lot more had the music/editing and pacing been more focused and atmospheric. I feel like those aspects of the production let it down and opened the gateway to all the other criticisms. For myself anyway.
It really depends on what your definition of atmospheric is. It terms of style, Prometheus is closer to Gladiator than it is to Alien or Bladerunner. I don't think Scott was going for something particularly atmospheric... but rather grande/epic.
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Aug 05, 2012, 12:10:33 PM
Quote from: BANE on Aug 04, 2012, 07:22:38 PM
f**k off with this plot hole nonsense. Jesus. You don't know what the term means.
You might want to remind yourself of the definition, there are a good amount of plot holes in this movie.
I think the only element coming close to a plot hole is Janek's statement to Shaw about the temple being a weapons factory... which I assume is because of a missing scene/dialogue. The rest are more conveniences than anything else.
The standard definition of a plothole includes unlikely character behaviours. Which I don't tend to count, as literally every fiction movie has instances of that.
Quote from: Darth Vile on Aug 05, 2012, 03:57:16 PM
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 05, 2012, 12:49:10 PM
I think I would have enjoyed Prometheus a lot more had the music/editing and pacing been more focused and atmospheric. I feel like those aspects of the production let it down and opened the gateway to all the other criticisms. For myself anyway.
It really depends on what your definition of atmospheric is. It terms of style, Prometheus is closer to Gladiator than it is to Alien or Bladerunner. I don't think Scott was going for something particularly atmospheric... but rather grande/epic.
Well I think the film fails in that respect. It's grandiose, and simply put, the music doesn't marry the visuals in a lot of cases. There is no substance at the core. Nothing sucks you in. There is no focus, just lots of things going on but with no flow and gelling between them all.
Alien and Blade Runner have simple stories but the atmosphere, the marriage between the sound and visuals sucks you in.
I have to admit, in a few instances the music really took away from the eeriness of the scene. That epic music played in parts that were supposed to be creepy, taking a whole lot of any feelings of danger or fear from the scene.
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 05, 2012, 04:53:23 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Aug 05, 2012, 03:57:16 PM
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 05, 2012, 12:49:10 PM
I think I would have enjoyed Prometheus a lot more had the music/editing and pacing been more focused and atmospheric. I feel like those aspects of the production let it down and opened the gateway to all the other criticisms. For myself anyway.
It really depends on what your definition of atmospheric is. It terms of style, Prometheus is closer to Gladiator than it is to Alien or Bladerunner. I don't think Scott was going for something particularly atmospheric... but rather grande/epic.
Well I think the film fails in that respect. It's grandiose, and simply put, the music doesn't marry the visuals in a lot of cases. There is no substance at the core. Nothing sucks you in. There is no focus, just lots of things going on but with no flow and gelling between them all.
Alien and Blade Runner have simple stories but the atmosphere, the marriage between the sound and visuals sucks you in.
I think
Prometheus is visually quite epic and grandiose... regardless of whether one likes the movie or not. I personally quite like the score... and I find it very reminiscent of other Jerry Goldsmith work - including the main theme from
Alien.
In terms of
Alien and
Blade Runner - I'd agree about the former but not the latter.
Blade Runner is not that simple, and whilst I've always loved the movie (from both a visual and narrative perspective), I know just as many people who don't get it or out and out dislike it... and remember
Blade Runner was not that well received with audiences upon initial release.
Quote from: BANE on Aug 05, 2012, 06:56:30 PM
I have to admit, in a few instances the music really took away from the eeriness of the scene. That epic music played in parts that were supposed to be creepy, taking a whole lot of any feelings of danger or fear from the scene.
Any specific examples Bane? I thought the music worked more than it didn't - thinking specifically of 'Going In' and Engineers' - which seemed to fit perfectly with what happened in the temple/ship.
On the subject of the score...
I have to admit that both 'A Planet' and 'Life' from the Prometheus soundtrack are now irrevocably part of my music collection. I do love 'A Planet' but it was definitely a stroke of genius to override it to incorporate a more 'positive themed' mood for the sacrificial engineer prelude.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that 'A Planet' was originally intended to be used for the 'beginning of time' sequence.
Yeah, I came to that conclusion also. And although I agree with the decision to swap it out I still think it's a great track.
I don't think the visuals or the music and sound design are bad by themselves.
I just don't think they gel together well, they don't marry to enhance and heighten the power of either of them and thus they fall flat.
Maybe this time they could make a movie that's actually as smart as it thinks it is. Or at least, stop acting like asking "Where did we come from? Aliens?" is some kind of deep, profound question. It isn't.
Quote from: SiL on Aug 05, 2012, 10:27:57 PM
Maybe this time they could make a movie that's actually as smart as it thinks it is. Or at least, stop acting like asking "Where did we come from? Aliens?" is some kind of deep, profound question. It isn't.
I agree. The lack of wonder and amazement on the screen (in response to those questions of human origins and the potential answers) was reflected in the audience. It was much more intriguing to see the environment, and consider the origins of the engineers.
I'm now interested to see how they are going to integrate more human characters in this next film (as in human actors/actresses). I don't think it's wise to return to this same planet with a search squad, but it would be odd to find Earthlings on other engineer planets (unless Yutani is involved?). Hmm..
"A book is a mirror: if an ape looks into it an apostle is hardly likely to look out."
Georg Christoph Lichtenberg
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 04, 2012, 01:49:14 PM
God it's not bloody hard.
Use more appropriate music and sound design that doesn't constantly try and force the audience into feeling "oh booooyyyy this is EPIC Duuuuude". Either make an atmospheric horror movie or make a hard science fiction movie. The two obviously don't seem to mesh and just cause each other to fizzle out.
Have more focused plotting. Having groups of characters all over the place that you have to keep cutting to and from just disintegrates the forward momentum of the plotting. If you are going to try and do this, watch Magnolia, notice how that movie uses music to weave a flowing tapestry that handles a several story lines simultaneously.
Scrub up the creature CGI.
Don't have so many plot holes, and don't make me pay 9 euro only to get 50% of a story. If you are going to give the audience a half assed story then make sure that you make up for it by having the movie dripping in mood and atmosphere.
Stop being so up your own arses. The audience is smarter than you think. Stop treating us like bufoons. Use your millions of dollars to make something highly artistic and forward reaching that cuts to the core of human feelings.
Agree.
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 04, 2012, 01:49:14 PM
God it's not bloody hard.
Not for nothing -- but you've done it, right? :-\
Fact: The vast majority of movies that come out are not worth the film they were printed on.
The fact that this movie attempted to tackle the subject matter it did and a great if not perfect movie came from it is proof that it's much harder than you seem to think.
Because of all the other movies in its genre that were this good? The last Sci Fi movie [without an Alien monster in it] that was this good and thought of in the regard it has been by an awful lot of people might have been 2001 -- an altogether different take on the same subject "where did we come from" and it took a second movie to try and answer the questions of the first- -- not to mention 3 or 4 more novels.
"God - it IS
not that bloody hard" and the above post is simply post simply "Agreed" ::) -- where is your film? I'll watch it. Not a film maker? What was the last thing you've done personally on this scale that received this much positive [and negative] attention? Where is your 100 movie long list of films in this genre that were better?
??? ??? ???
Ah, the old "Let's see yo do better" argument.
It isn't an argument at all.
That aside, yes it generally IS that hard. Though it is easier when you're Ridley Scott.
Quote from: SiL on Aug 05, 2012, 10:27:57 PM
Maybe this time they could make a movie that's actually as smart as it thinks it is. Or at least, stop acting like asking "Where did we come from? Aliens?" is some kind of deep, profound question. It isn't.
Wait a sec... you're saying the the question of where the Human Race and everything else on the planet Earth if not the entire galaxy / universe is not a profound question? ???
Surely you jest. Because I'd dare say that most astrophysicists and religious zealots would argu it is THE most profound question in Human History.
Quote from: SM on Aug 06, 2012, 03:17:24 AM
Ah, the old "Let's see yo do better" argument.
It isn't an argument at all.
That aside, yes it generally IS that hard. Though it is easier when you're Ridley Scott.
Yes - we can call me out on a logical fallacy -- but I am not asking that.
I am saying if it's so easy - and this isn't the quality of film I think is -- then tell me what you say is. So I have a frame of reference.
Seriously SM - you might not realize the passive / aggressive nature of nearly all your posts -- but jeez you sure do like to stir things up --
and my guess is you'd deny it.
I think Sil might've been trying to say "It's been done".
Quote from: SM on Aug 06, 2012, 03:21:02 AM
I think Sil might've been trying to say "It's been done".
And so what? Unless you're trying to tell me it was answered somewhere I am unaware of and thus there is a new most profound question that the human race would like answered.
Sorry - but let's stop sending rovers to Mars -- "It's been done"
Oh - yes - no one is writing any books on it anymore either. Good grief.
Can Time mag stop putting out it's annual God issue -- because it's been done.
Also -- no more rookie cop dramas on TV please -- it's been done. And of course - no A-Team sequels -- it's been done.
A-Team sequel hasn't been done. Mores the pity.
As for the rest, take it up with Sil. I made it pretty clear I was guessing.
Quote from: episodenone on Aug 06, 2012, 03:11:54 AM
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 04, 2012, 01:49:14 PM
God it's not bloody hard.
Not for nothing -- but you've done it, right? :-\
Fact: The vast majority of movies that come out are not worth the film they were printed on.
The fact that this movie attempted to tackle the subject matter it did and a great if not perfect movie came from it is proof that it's much harder than you seem to think.
Because of all the other movies in its genre that were this good? The last Sci Fi movie [without an Alien monster in it] that was this good and thought of in the regard it has been by an awful lot of people might have been 2001 -- an altogether different take on the same subject "where did we come from" and it took a second movie to try and answer the questions of the first- -- not to mention 3 or 4 more novels.
"God - it IS not that bloody hard" and the above post is simply post simply "Agreed" ::) -- where is your film? I'll watch it. Not a film maker? What was the last thing you've done personally on this scale that received this much positive [and negative] attention? Where is your 100 movie long list of films in this genre that were better?
??? ??? ???
Ridley Scott has mentioned on record as admirer of 2001 A Space Odyssey ,,,
Quote from: episodenone on Aug 06, 2012, 03:11:54 AM
Quote from: tmjhur on Aug 04, 2012, 01:49:14 PM
God it's not bloody hard.
Not for nothing -- but you've done it, right? :-\
Fact: The vast majority of movies that come out are not worth the film they were printed on.
The fact that this movie attempted to tackle the subject matter it did and a great if not perfect movie came from it is proof that it's much harder than you seem to think.
Because of all the other movies in its genre that were this good? The last Sci Fi movie [without an Alien monster in it] that was this good and thought of in the regard it has been by an awful lot of people might have been 2001 -- an altogether different take on the same subject "where did we come from" and it took a second movie to try and answer the questions of the first- -- not to mention 3 or 4 more novels.
"God - it IS not that bloody hard" and the above post is simply post simply "Agreed" ::) -- where is your film? I'll watch it. Not a film maker? What was the last thing you've done personally on this scale that received this much positive [and negative] attention? Where is your 100 movie long list of films in this genre that were better?
??? ??? ???
I was making issue of the post production editing, the bad use of sound and music which amounted to no atmosphere, bad pacing and ultimately didn't pull me into the feeling of watching a movie.
You know what, yeah I think I could have done a better job at editing sections of Prometheus> I would've attempted to better pace the film and find a better way to handle having multiple characters instead of simply letting it be a series of scenes played one after the other. Nothing gelled particularly.
I've honestly been half thinking of recutting Prometheus when the DVD comes out, add a different score add in the deleted scenes. Kind of like what Topher Grace did with Star Wars Episode 1-3.
Quote from: episodenone on Aug 06, 2012, 03:18:48 AM
Wait a sec... you're saying the the question of where the Human Race and everything else on the planet Earth if not the entire galaxy / universe is not a profound question? ???
Surely you jest. Because I'd dare say that most astrophysicists and religious zealots would argu it is THE most profound question in Human History.
Problem is, it isn't asking a question about the origin of life.
It's asking about the origin of
terrestrial life.
And then saying "Aliens did it".
This is not profound. This is not intellectually deep, nor is it difficult to fathom. It's every bit the cheap, lazy answer of "God did it". Something
did it, something
made it; we think this because this is how things
work on the human scale. The existence of a watch implies a watchmaker, ergo we conclude that the existence of Man implies some Creator.
Prometheus, being sci-fi, proposes its Engineers, and so thinks it's made some grand statement.
It hasn't.
Not only that, passing off the origin of life
here to something over
there doesn't actually answer the question of how life started, it just passes it off to something else. As Holloway himself asks, "Who made them?". If the answer is "Engineer Engineers", it's bullshit. If the answer is "Presumably the same way life in reality started -- no f**kin' clue", then what was the point in the Engineers in the first place?
But I admit I have missed what
Prometheus clearly considers its
biggest question -- not who, but
why. Why make us?
Except the film never answers this. Nor does it give the audience the tools it needs to answer this. It doesn't even give the audience enough to begin justifying their own beliefs. All they can do is form an opinion and scrounge the film for scraps of information to tentatively support what amounts to musing. It throws the question out, dangling it in front of the audience, looking so God-damned pleased with itself because of it, and then tears it away and says "Nope, horror movie ending now, see you for part 2 when we get around to answering what is, ostensibly, the question that
justifies this film's existence in the first place."
There's nothing smart or clever or deep or intellectual about posing a question in a vacuum. The film hardly seems bothered to make us interested in the question anyway. It's dropped in a handful of dialogue, but every time something comes up the movie throws another tentacle monster at us.
tl;dr "Did aliens do it?" is a boring horseshit non-answer to a legitimately intellectually stimulating question and saying "Why did aliens do it?" isn't actually profound or meaningful unless you
actually give the audience something to mull on.
The question of "why" can be answered by saying: we were a lab experiment. A lab experiment gone wrong.
Examples can be: we turned against them at some point 2000 years ago -or-
we evolved too far, to the point of being able to colonize space - thus becoming a potential threat
Those 2 examples and the (known) fact that we tend to be a violent species with a need of conquering, maybe convinced the Elephants that we have to be shut down somehow.
Or simply the experiment reached the end goal, so the Elephants found no further use for us.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps we were nothing more but guinea pigs, who managed to turn against the scientists and even got out of the maze.
Now, think about what human scientists would do in such a situation? What would human scientists do if ants from an ant farm would've gotten out of the contained area and started spreading in the laboratory itself? You can't handpick each and every ant and place it back in the jar. You think about using a bug spray before the situation gets even worse.
enough with the hate already just because the movie wasnt exactly what you expected. i thought it was great. i dont remember any plotholes, although they did intentionally leave some questions unanswered and im ok with that. i cant wait for this next one, and possibly one more after that. im really curious to see this "paradise" and how everything bridges to the original Alien. and the evolution of the creature itself, of course. the only thing i agree with is that the tone should be a little more eerie. and less cg for the actual alien. other than that, great f**king movie!
Quote from: n00b133 on Aug 22, 2012, 09:35:35 AM
enough with the hate already just because the movie wasnt exactly what you expected. i thought it was great. i dont remember any plotholes, although they did intentionally leave some questions unanswered and im ok with that. i cant wait for this next one, and possibly one more after that. im really curious to see this "paradise" and how everything bridges to the original Alien. and the evolution of the creature itself, of course. the only thing i agree with is that the tone should be a little more eerie. and less cg for the actual alien. other than that, great f**king movie!
If it's meant to bridge that gap at all.... "Paradise" could just as easily relate to something Shaw's father told her about other peoples beliefs, the question of 'what happens when we die', as seen by David during Shaw's dream in hyper-sleep. We know David knows how her father dies, maybe there's more to see in that scene, but Scott decided it wasn't necessary for the final film.
Quote from: SiL on Aug 07, 2012, 12:10:02 PM
Quote from: episodenone on Aug 06, 2012, 03:18:48 AM
Wait a sec... you're saying the the question of where the Human Race and everything else on the planet Earth if not the entire galaxy / universe is not a profound question? ???
Surely you jest. Because I'd dare say that most astrophysicists and religious zealots would argu it is THE most profound question in Human History.
Problem is, it isn't asking a question about the origin of life.
It's asking about the origin of terrestrial life.
And then saying "Aliens did it".
This is not profound. This is not intellectually deep, nor is it difficult to fathom. It's every bit the cheap, lazy answer of "God did it". Something did it, something made it; we think this because this is how things work on the human scale. The existence of a watch implies a watchmaker, ergo we conclude that the existence of Man implies some Creator. Prometheus, being sci-fi, proposes its Engineers, and so thinks it's made some grand statement.
It hasn't.
Not only that, passing off the origin of life here to something over there doesn't actually answer the question of how life started, it just passes it off to something else. As Holloway himself asks, "Who made them?". If the answer is "Engineer Engineers", it's bullshit. If the answer is "Presumably the same way life in reality started -- no f**kin' clue", then what was the point in the Engineers in the first place?
But I admit I have missed what Prometheus clearly considers its biggest question -- not who, but why. Why make us?
Except the film never answers this. Nor does it give the audience the tools it needs to answer this. It doesn't even give the audience enough to begin justifying their own beliefs. All they can do is form an opinion and scrounge the film for scraps of information to tentatively support what amounts to musing. It throws the question out, dangling it in front of the audience, looking so God-damned pleased with itself because of it, and then tears it away and says "Nope, horror movie ending now, see you for part 2 when we get around to answering what is, ostensibly, the question that justifies this film's existence in the first place."
There's nothing smart or clever or deep or intellectual about posing a question in a vacuum. The film hardly seems bothered to make us interested in the question anyway. It's dropped in a handful of dialogue, but every time something comes up the movie throws another tentacle monster at us.
tl;dr "Did aliens do it?" is a boring horseshit non-answer to a legitimately intellectually stimulating question and saying "Why did aliens do it?" isn't actually profound or meaningful unless you actually give the audience something to mull on.
You know it saddens me that such a well reasoned, intelligent, post 'can be' essentially played down with responses like "Well, I liked it" or "Stop with the hate."
It's damn near theological or religious in the natures of some peoples defenses around here when it comes to this movie.
I guess we'll just have to see, but I think the next film needs to one better than Prometheus. Not squander it's potential. Be more than the sum of it's parts. Not play intelligence frisbee by passing the scenes off early to monster scares.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Aug 23, 2012, 11:20:47 AM
Quote from: SiL on Aug 07, 2012, 12:10:02 PM
Quote from: episodenone on Aug 06, 2012, 03:18:48 AM
Wait a sec... you're saying the the question of where the Human Race and everything else on the planet Earth if not the entire galaxy / universe is not a profound question? ???
Surely you jest. Because I'd dare say that most astrophysicists and religious zealots would argu it is THE most profound question in Human History.
Problem is, it isn't asking a question about the origin of life.
It's asking about the origin of terrestrial life.
And then saying "Aliens did it".
This is not profound. This is not intellectually deep, nor is it difficult to fathom. It's every bit the cheap, lazy answer of "God did it". Something did it, something made it; we think this because this is how things work on the human scale. The existence of a watch implies a watchmaker, ergo we conclude that the existence of Man implies some Creator. Prometheus, being sci-fi, proposes its Engineers, and so thinks it's made some grand statement.
It hasn't.
Not only that, passing off the origin of life here to something over there doesn't actually answer the question of how life started, it just passes it off to something else. As Holloway himself asks, "Who made them?". If the answer is "Engineer Engineers", it's bullshit. If the answer is "Presumably the same way life in reality started -- no f**kin' clue", then what was the point in the Engineers in the first place?
But I admit I have missed what Prometheus clearly considers its biggest question -- not who, but why. Why make us?
Except the film never answers this. Nor does it give the audience the tools it needs to answer this. It doesn't even give the audience enough to begin justifying their own beliefs. All they can do is form an opinion and scrounge the film for scraps of information to tentatively support what amounts to musing. It throws the question out, dangling it in front of the audience, looking so God-damned pleased with itself because of it, and then tears it away and says "Nope, horror movie ending now, see you for part 2 when we get around to answering what is, ostensibly, the question that justifies this film's existence in the first place."
There's nothing smart or clever or deep or intellectual about posing a question in a vacuum. The film hardly seems bothered to make us interested in the question anyway. It's dropped in a handful of dialogue, but every time something comes up the movie throws another tentacle monster at us.
tl;dr "Did aliens do it?" is a boring horseshit non-answer to a legitimately intellectually stimulating question and saying "Why did aliens do it?" isn't actually profound or meaningful unless you actually give the audience something to mull on.
You know it saddens me that such a well reasoned, intelligent, post 'can be' essentially played down with responses like "Well, I liked it" or "Stop with the hate."
It's damn near theological or religious in the natures of some peoples defenses around here when it comes to this movie.
I guess we'll just have to see, but I think the next film needs to one better than Prometheus. Not squander it's potential. Be more than the sum of it's parts. Not play intelligence frisbee by passing the scenes off early to monster scares.
Haha ..yeah...'Promethean Fundamentalists'...cant see past their own noses, all swivel eyed reaction, and simply unable to hear genuine and valid criticism of the film's many, glaring flaws ....'if youre not with us youre against us !!"
Quote from: JKS1 on Aug 23, 2012, 01:28:13 PMHaha ..yeah...'Promethean Fundamentalists'...cant see past their own noses, all swivel eyed reaction, and simply unable to hear genuine and valid criticism of the film's many, glaring flaws ....'if youre not with us youre against us !!"
Just don't lump us all in with that generalization. I like the film because it's fun to watch. Sure, it has flaws. So does Alien3 - and I like that one, too. :)
Concerning of the bridge to the Alien.. Buddy of mine thought the crashed Juggernaut was THE Derelict.. So I explained to him that Prometheus took place on the LV-223, not the LV-426 (which was the other planet in the shots in space).. Anyway, he did not give a s**t..
Most Alien fans outside the internet probably don't. They just see an alien planet, a similar ship, and the Alien, and that's more than enough for them.
Same principle applies over us picking apart every Alien design and comparing it to Giger's original. Most people don't care at all. All they have to do is see the Alien and they're happy, makes no difference if its the Alien design or the AVPR one.
Quotenot the LV-426 (which was the other planet in the shots in space)..
It was?
Not unless it shrank drastically in 20 years.
And gas giant gained another moon...
And moved 4 ly futher away...
Your very last comment is a great one. I for one hope that this mentality is correct, considering the amount of flack Alien flicks get all the time since fanboys (not Film lovers) get carried away on spats between fanboys.
A formula like this will help push Prometheus into new territory rather than lump the Alien franchise as just another monster movie like Dracula or the Wolfman to be forgotten in another bargain bin product.
I am a film lover first and formost. But I respect the Alien franchise. I hope that Art can dictate where the story goes rather money.
AND BY ART I MEAN f**kING STORY TELLING. A RIPPING f**kING GOOD YARN!!!!!
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 26, 2012, 05:49:22 PM
Most Alien fans outside the internet probably don't. They just see an alien planet, a similar ship, and the Alien, and that's more than enough for them.
Same principle applies over us picking apart every Alien design and comparing it to Giger's original. Most people don't care at all. All they have to do is see the Alien and they're happy, makes no difference if its the Alien design or the AVPR one.
A lot of the flak that Alien flicks get (mainly from Alien3 onwards) is perfectly legitimate, be it from 'fanboys' or 'Film lovers'.
I think it will fit to this thread well.. Check the second question & answer: http://storyshots.tumblr.com/post/30407729786/late-question-monday (http://storyshots.tumblr.com/post/30407729786/late-question-monday)
(It's a blog of a former Pixar story artist who has great knowledge not only about the animated movies, she really knows a lot..)
No great revelation that a movie aimed at a wider audience is more likely to score a higher budget.
People are always going to hate a film, no matter how good some may find it. It's hard making a film because you have to try to please every different type of audience member, and that just can't be done. Hell, there are people who hated The Dark Knight Rises ( which I was not overly impressed with, but still enjoyed). There are people who hate movies which are often considered some of the best films ever made. It''s just the way it is. I don't care just as long as people act civil and use reasons to back up their opinions, rather than just saying " That movie sucked."
Quote from: BobGrill on Aug 29, 2012, 07:21:35 AMIt's hard making a film because you have to try to please every different type of audience member, and that just can't be done.
That's true, but you
can avoid basic movie mistakes. People may hate the film for various reasons; that logan guy, dis-continuity with the universe, the god-damned squid - but ultimately it falls over because of shoddy film making; choppy editing, badly drawn characters and an aimless screenplay.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Aug 29, 2012, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: BobGrill on Aug 29, 2012, 07:21:35 AMIt's hard making a film because you have to try to please every different type of audience member, and that just can't be done.
That's true, but you can avoid basic movie mistakes. People may hate the film for various reasons; that logan guy, dis-continuity with the universe, the god-damned squid - but ultimately it falls over because of shoddy film making; choppy editing, badly drawn characters and an aimless screenplay.
But that's based on the assertion that it's a badly made movie... something which many here would disgaree with.
Quote from: Darth Vile on Aug 29, 2012, 01:46:44 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Aug 29, 2012, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: BobGrill on Aug 29, 2012, 07:21:35 AMIt's hard making a film because you have to try to please every different type of audience member, and that just can't be done.
That's true, but you can avoid basic movie mistakes. People may hate the film for various reasons; that logan guy, dis-continuity with the universe, the god-damned squid - but ultimately it falls over because of shoddy film making; choppy editing, badly drawn characters and an aimless screenplay.
But that's based on the assertion that it's a badly made movie... something which many here would disgaree with.
Yes, that is my assertion. My point, however, was that despite all of the nit-picking there are fundamental problems with the film that have nothing to do with personal taste or expectations...
...and that is my opinion dammit and I ain't budging from it...
...and I am not nitpicking. :P
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Aug 29, 2012, 02:02:49 PM
Quote from: Darth Vile on Aug 29, 2012, 01:46:44 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Aug 29, 2012, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: BobGrill on Aug 29, 2012, 07:21:35 AMIt's hard making a film because you have to try to please every different type of audience member, and that just can't be done.
That's true, but you can avoid basic movie mistakes. People may hate the film for various reasons; that logan guy, dis-continuity with the universe, the god-damned squid - but ultimately it falls over because of shoddy film making; choppy editing, badly drawn characters and an aimless screenplay.
But that's based on the assertion that it's a badly made movie... something which many here would disgaree with.
Yes, that is my assertion. My point, however, was that despite all of the nit-picking there are fundamental problems with the film that have nothing to do with personal taste or expectations...
...and that is my opinion dammit and I ain't budging from it...
...and I am not nitpicking. :P
It's just that the point becomes a bit moot... same as if someone was stating that "you can't make a film that pleases everyone, even acknowledging that
Prometheus is probably the best science fiction movie ever made".
I don't believe that by the way... just using it to mirror it with your view/language. ;)
QuoteIt's hard making a film because you have to try to please every different type of audience member, and that just can't be done.
No one ever tries to please every different type of audience member. For the very reason you stated.
If Fox wants to do this "right" it should be scary, with believable characters, and for once let the director do what he wants to. But, Fox doesn't work that way.
:laugh:
Yeah, Riddles is so Fox's bitch. They never let him do anything...
Quote from: eyeballkid on Aug 30, 2012, 02:08:45 AM
If Fox wants to do this "right" it should be scary, with believable characters, and for once let the director do what he wants to. But, Fox doesn't work that way.
Scott has stated many time's this is the movie he wanted to make.
EDIT SM in before :P
I understand some of the hate this movie gets for the flat characters, but what if that's all part of the themes and will be more clear as time goes on? What if Ridley meant for us to eventually see things through David's perspective? Viewing humans as foolish compared to him; connected to why he wants to kill his father/the king and is so ambiguous. He feels humans are too quick to act without thinking/perceiving the consequences like a robot would, he also feels humans make bad decisions quickly and rely on answers being given to them or handed to them from above by a king. He feels some of them are helpless without Weyland's company being the leading power on Earth..
David may be starting to feel... while most of the other characters are starting to not feel/ not show much emotion, and starting to lose faith in things under the surface. While still trying to remain in control and display confidence in what they know and feelings/beliefs about what is going on/happened/may happen. However, the characters end up displaying what is actually ego, or sometimes falsely justified egos that are displayed through their actions/lines and shattered by some of their eventual outcomes (Vickers). Janek has few illusions, he puts up the Christmas tree as a ceremonial thing and explains it as such, stating it's to remind them of the passage of time. Even some of the editing choices are deliberate I feel, to keep the mystery about what David will do.
What if it's part of how Ridley envisioned humans would become in that time period? Where science leads the way and the archaeologists depend on machines that make their jobs even easier, carrying a portable carbon dater. They are putting faith in science but not asking the fundamental archaeological questions they should be asking. Instead they ask David if he can read the hieroglyphs and he says he believes he can.
It was a golden age for Weyland Corp, where it had all these wonderful gifts their brilliant yet somewhat irrational corporate head created for them and left them with. Sometimes when an influential king dies and no one up to the task can replace him the kingdom will enter a state of decline and start to crumble or disintegrate. Like the Engineer genetics after affected by the goo it disintegrates and recombines with other elements or kingdoms to create the Weyland-Yutani Empire. These humans were living in a time where things were a little bit better, nicer and shinier for the Weyland kingdom. After the headless kingdom breaks down and almost completely disintegrates it'll need to be combined with another kingdom to form the Weyland-Yutani empire. A larger, more militaristic version of the previous incarnation. That has lost some of it's shininess due to a hidden war.. and the need to expand, where humans have returned to a more balanced, less egotistical, sometimes emotionally cold state.
This is all related to how Lindelof said the movie would be all about "getting inside the robot's head". His inner desires and feelings/ attitudes towards the crew.. Maybe Ridley set out to partially displease us with the human characters and some of their choices/actions for now, and to please us with David's performance because he'll be a very big part of the series and is the key to it all. Fassbender's performance/the character of David is probably the thing that might make even people who partially disliked Prometheus come back for a second helping in Paradise since we know David is alive, and Fassbender is on contract to keep playing him, or other incarnations of the character.
Ridley may have wanted us to start to like/trust David's words, or to distrust him completely, or at least see his view on some things. With many viewing him as the best part of the movie, to make what David eventually does that much more powerful. Even though we have hints that he can be perceived as evil while under Weyland's control, we don't know David's thoughts on the matter other than vague hints about wanting to kill Weyland. None of the other characters except Shaw, Holloway and Vickers were given much emotion or depth on purpose..
There may be a reason why most of the human characters don't show much emotion and some of their lines come off as flat or robotic. Or quoted from pop culture of the past or movies. David tries to hide his artificial emotions and act like he's not developing some free will, and personality, but we know he's an android who has artificial feelings and is emotional. Holloway didn't know this, and had a hate on for robots, he wasn't forgetting he was a robot. He was reminding him to be a dick about it and was surprised this robot was a dick back... And seemed to be almost ticked off at Holloway, choosing him to test the goo on. David may dislike humans to a certain extent because he feels he's superior to them.
David's "a superior species no doubt" statement can be read as being sarcastic, and possibly holding a double meaning implying he feels it's easy to be superior to humans and that androids already are. Holloway lets his guard down when David comes to bring him the booze, playing nice, and pretending to help him feel better about not finding any Engineers alive. Holloway still tests/teases him as he accepts the drink and is showing some of his irrational distrust for androids. Holloway also feels more than other characters, but hides it well and is the true parallel opposite of David and not Shaw. He feels an irrational distrust that may be justified because he doesn't know what's up with this particular android. Earlier in the movie Holloway's afraid that they're making them more and more real, to which David responds "not too real I hope" because David doesn't wanna be like the humans.. We're supposed to dislike Holloway's character for now... and enjoy David's character more. All part of the trick.
The archaeologists were hoping David would just tell them about the hieroglyphs since they knew he spent time learning. Shaw says "David I hope you can read that" because she has no clue, possibly hoping later that he has some answer for the urns and everything else too. Because they sure don't analyze it for long. They just gloss over everything, not asking the pertinent archaeological questions about the mural, while relying on/believing most everything David says. Which is not a lot on purpose... to avoid lying. The mural changing and the storm approaching stops them from asking for his interpretation as he was busy looking at the urns. And David has to reveal the truth /his true meaning/inner desires, at least partially, through his statements that hold multiple meanings. But Shaw is the only one who begins to understand this through her experiences with him. And like David Shaw believes she knows much more than she's saying.
Shaw had definitely grown to distrust him after the squid thing, but she doesn't even want to fully trust his words at the end. David's the only one who shows a true almost human reaction to seeing her bloody in the doorway, and is probably actually the most emotional of all the crew, even though he hides it well. Except possibly Shaw who didn't lose her faith, or her life because her choices were actually guided by a balanced mixture of knowledge and belief/feelings. However, David's the only one who can take her where she feels she must go. And he's the only one who even says anything to Shaw after the squid incident, even though he's being sarcastic and outright lying through a double statement about not knowing she had it "in her".
David's actions put the squid in her, and he told her it was in her, but he was under Weyland's orders the whole time.
Maybe he was actually amused that she was fighting back against what Weyland had programmed him to do. Which was to freeze her and take her back to Earth, before she wakes up, breaks free from whats being done to her by this irrational leader, and takes the thing out from within her. David instantly knows this is what she must have done and says "I didn't know you had it in you".
Here he's practicing lying about not knowing the squid was inside her because he now chooses what to believe and admires Shaw, in a way, for her dream teaching him this. If he chooses what he believes he can tell a partial lie, because his built in artificial emotions make him unable to tell a complete lie, sort of like Pinnochio. But now the artificial emotions have made David almost a real boy, despite the fact Weyland thought he had no soul. Weyland gave him his ability to develop a soul/free-will and it was partially Weyland's undoing.
There's no reason for him to add a double meaning here other than to practice his form of a lie about not knowing it was inside her when he knows she knows he already knew to some extent (lol is this too complicated?). David may also feel guilty and this is an attempt to cover up the fact that he knows exactly how it got inside her. Shaw chooses what to believe and how to act based on a balanced mixture of logic/knowledge and science vs. faith/feelings/beliefs/gut reactions (making her survive where Vicker's doesn't). However, part of the lesson is that sometimes you can't completely trust science, and sometimes you can't completely trust belief/feelings/gut reactions. David may be unaware of just how real he is, and that his feelings/beliefs are a lot more real than he thinks. Influencing his views even when he doesn't choose what to believe/report/ reveal.
David thinks he knows and that his words are the truth in some cases, making him just as egotistical as some of the characters in the movie. When really the only one who should have a big ego was the man who brought them all there and made all that possible through his achievements. He created David who has now developed a pseudo-ego problem or superiority complex because of his superiority to humans and influence from his father. Weyland had the right to be egotistical because all of his past achievements led him to that point, however he was still following what he believed, that they were gods. He was being too irrational and didn't have David's extra knowledge about the fact there was only bio-weapons there.
The humans may have made a mistake in making David too real. So real that he has chosen what to believe and cannot be controlled after Weyland is gone. The artificial emotions are influencing him and influencing his observations and analyses.
When forming a theory or thesis and then drawing conclusions you have to separate science from feelings/beliefs. David is not doing this... and may be partially unaware that his thesis is just a thesis as well, because of how much of his own interpretation went into his statements. David is now choosing what to believe like Shaw, and is reporting it as the truth. We can't trust anything he said to be completely true.
Shaw has a balance of knowledge and belief that is like David's but she almost always knows that she lets her beliefs influence her theories and combines them when she needs to, while still separating them and accepting the evidence that the Engineers are us. Her question about "who created them then?" is a logical one that's inspired by her belief/faith. She allows both sides of her character (scientist and believer) to mix, combines it at the correct times and ends up rewarded for it. David takes an interest in this. And her ability to let her instincts take over while still remaining logical.
Shaw lets her gut reactions take over and does the logical thing at the same time which is rolling out of the way of the rolling Juggernaut. Vickers spends too long running straight ahead and lets the irrational/chaos side take over, clouding her judgement. When the logical thing to do was to roll out of the way, to break from a linear path and allow her instincts to take over, but she was too busy panicking. Letting her feelings that she was done for take over, and not thinking fast enough or allowing her gut reactions to keep her alive. Because Vickers is all about order and logic, but also contains elements of chaos/the illogical. She runs from and tries to keep order over the situation, but is not actually in charge. Vickers eventually succumbs to the chaos side and can't combine both to think on her feet. She's all about planning too and trying to maintain her plan. Vickers couldn't control herself/maintain order/think logically or react appropriately in the chaotic situation and was relying more on the basic reaction of just running. She never thought to, or immediately reacted to, break from her straight line/linear thinking because she can't handle this much chaos, and so she gets flattened.
I believe David is the standout performance because him and Shaw are basically the only ones who care about things for what they perceive to be the right reasons, and show true emotions in their performances. All the other characters have become a certain way during Weyland's reign because of his influence on culture.. His subjects are almost robotic slaves to money or something else: themselves. Holloway is all about ego and his belief that he was correct that they weren't gods, looking for evidence to prove he was right "gods don't build in straight lines". Holloway was selfishly in it for the glory at first. Shaw actually wanted to know. The humans are starting to become less emotional because they are becoming more egotistical like Weyland, the creator of the golden age for Weyland corp and for the Earth. All because they're handed everything at this time, and see themselves as gods/kings because of mankind's achievements and advancements. Which really came from Weyland, almost all of them that make up their futuristic tech.
It wasn't humans as a whole who developed all the futuristic things used in the the series, it was Peter Weyland who was a head of his time. This will change over time as all things do. After a king dies someone else will step up to the throne and change the kingdom, even if it's minor changes. The Weyland company/kingdom changes shape drastically between Prometheus and Alien and becomes the Weyland-Yutani Empire. After a series of events happens that are covered up by the new management.
Here, characters are leaning too far one way or the other and put too much faith in things like the instruments of science they use and rely on, and money. It's not even about science vs religion when u apply it to every character, it's more about the logical vs the illogical, order vs chaos, and rational vs irrational behavior. It's about knowledge & belief or feelings/gut reactions much more than strictly being about science and religion.
David is a mixture of these traits because he's an extremely intelligent instrument of science who has been given artificial emotion and understands feelings. He's one of the three semi-balanced characters who have a mix of both sides (him, Vickers and Holloway), but he leans heavier on the knowledge side of things; while Shaw is a more balanced mixture who has faith that answers are out there, and accepts the scientific evidence while combining that with her beliefs to reform her theories. Asking very valid questions inspired by her beliefs/feelings. She puts her faith in answers. David puts his beliefs/feelings in his answers. Her intuitions and justifiable chaotic actions in breaking free from those who wished to freeze her and extracting the trilobite herself leads her down the right paths that allow her to get out of her situation, to survive and not be frozen. Her intelligence and logical side leads her straight to the medpod and she quickly finds a way to extract the thing from herself even though it was designed for males.
To me this is the most powerful scene of the series. She's facing death and being treated as part of an experiment, used as a vessel to carry a sample back for the company. She suspects this, and knows there's always a chance that they might not be able to get it out without killing her or allowing it to kill her. She believes something about the unknown, knows she has to fight. So she fights back and she removes the creature from herself in this ship where people don't care about others. It's about sooo much more under the surface, tying into the male patriarchy themes, coming from the king themes the uber male engineers, and Weyland's preference for a son + Weyland's disapproval of Vickers and the line of succession theme. Usually after the king dies the prince gets to rule..
Was David ok with the fact that Weyland made him do his evil bidding if he has artificial feelings and can understand emotion? Since he wanted to kill his creator, or implies this, I'm thinking he had some problems with the way Weyland ran things.
Was he hiding his emotions (misleading Holloway about not being as real as he actually is) and the fact that he grew over the 2.5 years as he was developing inner desires and a personality? Is it part of David and Ridley's trick in Prometheus. Ridley not minding that to tell his story some of the human characters might be perceived as irrational or chaotic in this time period, or is it that they put too much faith in science/past experience/knowledge and belief when dealing with an unknown, like Millburn does? David not minding that he has feelings/can't lie and that it hurts him. Because he can't feel true pain like in Weyland's match trick when he quotes Lawrence of Arabia. Indicating both have a preference for the same movie. Some of the father's personality is in the son. David not showing his true emotions/feelings is tied into this, and he knew he had to carry out Weyland's orders against his will and couldn't lie, but also didn't mind because he had a bigger trick in mind. And he found a way to not show his true feelings. To not show that his programming hurts him. Again it's emotional pain/ artificial guilt and a programmed inability to lie that David has to not mind. He's referred to as immortal and feels no real physical pain. Ridley may not have minded that certain things would have to be cut so we would actually grow to like David more...
Did I put way too much work into this?
Before the Engineer awakening scene Shaw asks David what he'll do when Weyland's gone, and David says he imagines he'd be free then.
Quote from: eyeballkid on Aug 30, 2012, 02:08:45 AM
If Fox wants to do this "right" it should be scary, with believable characters, and for once let the director do what he wants to. But, Fox doesn't work that way.
After Alien3, FOX gave a lot of creative control to Jeunet for
Alien Resurrection and (apparently) to Scott for
Prometheus. Both of those films are very weak entries in the series, even weaker than
Alien3 imho. At this point, if FOX can squeeze out a sequel for
Prometheus that is as good as
Alien3 it would be some kind of a miracle. I just don't see the source material of the first film having the strength to distribute itself to an entire trilogy.
Then again...
Nobody ever commended the original
Saw for it's stellar storyline either and it's already got, what, six sequels now??? I'd bet that FOX would be pretty pleased with itself if
Prometheus could have a smiliar legacy for them. I'd also bet that they could get Lindelof to even write all of the scripts for them if it ever came to that. ;D ;D ;D
But in all seriousness...
I'm beginning to think that the missing ingredient for success in the series (story-wise) is the involvement of Hill and Giler who have been absent from the franchise ever since Alien3. Bring them back (even if it is just to consult) and I'd probably have more faith in the next film being any good.
Hill and Giler were involved in Alien3 and look how that turned out.
As for Jeunet and Resurrection, I don't believe he had a lot of creative control. Maybe over the look of it but not a stack else. Pretty sure he saw himself as a director-for-hire compared to his own films. Plus they kept ripping stuff out to reduce his budget.
On the other hand I believe there were people who commended Saw's stroyline. It's a cracking setup if nothing else.
Quote from: Malakak on Aug 30, 2012, 02:18:01 AM
I understand some of the hate this movie gets for the flat characters, but what if that's all part of the themes and will be more clear as time goes on? What if Ridley meant for us to eventually see things through David's perspective? Viewing humans as foolish compared to him; connected to why he wants to kill his father/the king and is so ambiguous. He feels humans are too quick to act without thinking/perceiving the consequences like a robot would, he also feels humans make bad decisions quickly and rely on answers being given to them or handed to them from above by a king. He feels some of them are helpless without Weyland's company being the leading power on Earth...
I see your point... but I don't think it's that conscious on Scott's part. I don't believe that
Prometheus was conceived/designed to be a character piece that takes places in a 'real' universe. Hence - the characters are quite 2-dimensional and unrealistic. I don't say that as a criticism, but as merely an observation on the tone Scott sets in the movie. I know this has been said before – but
Prometheus has the same sense of realism as Star Trek... again, I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, but clearly it was intentional on Scott's part (IMHO) to make something much more 'science fiction' than 'science fact'. This is a common theme in Scott's movies, I think, where characters don't come across as overtly realistic... For example, if you take a look at
Alien,
Bladerunner,
Thelma and Louise and
Gladiator, the characters are very stylised and often rather flat. Even in
Alien, where there was quite a bit of room for actors to improvise and be more natural, they are often merely characatures and not really rounded e.g. the sardonic and rough engineers, the uptight scientist and the screaming/emotional woman.
IMHO - Scott is much more interested in the aesthetics of a piece rather than the emotonal/character elements... hence his movies are far more famous and merit worthy for their visuals/cinematography. Ultimately I don't think it's anything more complex than that. :)
Quote from: Ash 937 on Aug 30, 2012, 06:04:09 AM
I'm beginning to think that the missing ingredient for success in the series (story-wise) is the involvement of Hill and Giler who have been absent from the franchise ever since Alien3. Bring them back (even if it is just to consult) and I'd probably have more faith in the next film being any good.
I think
Alien 3 is a train wreck of a film. Somewhere in all those great ideas there is something good wanting to break free. It was clear then that Fincher was a great director in the making... but as a film, I think it works less succesfully than
AVP - unfortunately.
My point is Fox wasn't sure about a R rated movie from the beginning. That is why we had a slowly evolving trailer that showed the Fifield monster, and yet he wasn't in the film. I also believe that the Hammerpede scene was abruptly cut because the scene just ends for no reason. What we got was a pg-13 movie with one scene that was "disturbing", but not really.
There are more than one scene in the film that is disturbing in my point o view.Public in general will agree in two or three scenes.For us one was sure , and maybe we must consider the battle between the engineer and the Trilobite which bring us to Deacon of course.We must put ourselves in the position of the casual audience.
The bit where Shaw cuts her baby out earns it an R easily.
I saw people in the cinema cringing and gripping their chairs when the Shaw caesarian scene was happening. And then people were like, "is that an Alien???" :laugh:
Not gonna lie, I was one of the people cringing.
Most women are not going to want to get pregnant after that.
I don't want to get pregnant after that. ;)
No Chuck Norris pointing at you in the scene, so you two don't have to worry.
On my last screening, so far, one from the rows in front of me suddenly began to grin.. And then, when the movie ended and the lights were turned on, one lady from that row stood up, turning to leave, revealing her huuuge belly.
I met her a few times, while I was walking my dog.. She have twins. I think.
Did you ask her what she thought of the scene? :P
She looks like sister of Uma Thurman, her husband, who was nearby, wouldn't be happy :D
Meh. Next time you're around them, just be sure not to spike his drink if either of them are looking ;)
Quote from: ShadowPred on Sep 01, 2012, 04:30:11 PM
Most women are not going to want to get pregnant after that.
My wife told me she was preggers the day before. When we went to see it the only thing I was cringing at was the fact that I totally forgot about that scene and was facing a slap afterwards.
Just got back from watching it again. I swear to god if it turns out the Engineers hate us because we killed Space Jockey Jesus I'm going to throw a chair through the movie screen.
Quote from: Highland on Sep 01, 2012, 11:30:28 PM
Quote from: ShadowPred on Sep 01, 2012, 04:30:11 PM
Most women are not going to want to get pregnant after that.
My wife told me she was preggers the day before. When we went to see it the only thing I was cringing at was the fact that I totally forgot about that scene and was facing a slap afterwards.
I didn't even know that scene was in it when my up-the-duff missus got grossed out by it. And then accused me of not telling her about it!
Quote from: SM on Sep 03, 2012, 05:33:14 AM
Quote from: Highland on Sep 01, 2012, 11:30:28 PM
Quote from: ShadowPred on Sep 01, 2012, 04:30:11 PM
Most women are not going to want to get pregnant after that.
My wife told me she was preggers the day before. When we went to see it the only thing I was cringing at was the fact that I totally forgot about that scene and was facing a slap afterwards.
I didn't even know that scene was in it when my up-the-duff missus got grossed out by it. And then accused me of not telling her about it!
:D I only remembered whilst watching it.
Funny thing was I did it again the week after. We decided to pick a Blu Ray to watch and I picked Children of Men..... :o :laugh:
I was looking forward to seeing my friend's reaction when I went to see it with her, but the only thing that bothered her was the fact Shaw seemed awful athletic immediately following a c-section.
"So, the whole scene with the baby alien ... "
"It was bullshit! You couldn't run around and pull yourself up like she was at the end after a c-section. You're not allowed to lift anything for, like, a week afterwards."
Quote from: Highland on Sep 01, 2012, 11:30:28 PM
Quote from: ShadowPred on Sep 01, 2012, 04:30:11 PM
Most women are not going to want to get pregnant after that.
My wife told me she was preggers the day before. When we went to see it the only thing I was cringing at was the fact that I totally forgot about that scene and was facing a slap afterwards.
My fiance was four months pregnant at the time, and we saw it twice. Her only reaction was, like SiL's friend, to criticise Noomi's performance pre- and post-caesarian, 'cause y'know, now that she's pregnant she's a know-it-all :laugh: Now my other good friend squirmed, and
he ain't pregnant!
Also regarding C sections. Don't they remove your guts and place them on a tray?
I was really hoping for the ultimate gross out ever. Didn't happen unfortunately. You know, something to actually rival the beloved chestburster.
Quote from: tmjhur on Sep 03, 2012, 11:16:19 AM
Also regarding C sections. Don't they remove your guts and place them on a tray?
I was really hoping for the ultimate gross out ever. Didn't happen unfortunately. You know, something to actually rival the beloved chestburster.
It was a bit light on gore but I still found the scene pretty tense. It was almost like you were going into surgery yourself.
Quote from: tmjhur on Sep 03, 2012, 11:16:19 AM
Also regarding C sections. Don't they remove your guts and place them on a tray?
I was really hoping for the ultimate gross out ever. Didn't happen unfortunately. You know, something to actually rival the beloved chestburster.
No, they don`t.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarean_section (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarean_section)
My bad. It would have been more disgusting though if so.
Quote from: tmjhur on Sep 03, 2012, 11:16:19 AM
Also regarding C sections. Don't they remove your guts and place them on a tray?
I was really hoping for the ultimate gross out ever. Didn't happen unfortunately. You know, something to actually rival the beloved chestburster.
Honestly, I thought the scene held up on its own while remaining a great callback to the original. Even though I knew it was coming (damn trailers) it was still very tense and hard for me to watch.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Sep 03, 2012, 03:16:58 PM
Quote from: tmjhur on Sep 03, 2012, 11:16:19 AM
Also regarding C sections. Don't they remove your guts and place them on a tray?
I was really hoping for the ultimate gross out ever. Didn't happen unfortunately. You know, something to actually rival the beloved chestburster.
Honestly, I thought the scene held up on its own while remaining a great callback to the original. Even though I knew it was coming (damn trailers) it was still very tense and hard for me to watch.
Agreed. Nothing comes close to the original chestburster in terms of shock value... but the c-section was at least semi original and felt 'Alien'ish'.
Quote from: tmjhur on Sep 03, 2012, 11:16:19 AM
Also regarding C sections. Don't they remove your guts and place them on a tray?
I was really hoping for the ultimate gross out ever. Didn't happen unfortunately. You know, something to actually rival the beloved chestburster.
My birth would be so much more f**king awesome if they did remove the guts.
I wasn't dissing the C section scene. I just thought it would be gorier.
F**king trailers man. What a way to go and ruin the movie. If it wasn't in the trailer then none of us would have known.
My only gripe about the c-section scene is that we knew it was coming. If they didn't include that in the trailers, that would have been amazing. Ridley really thought they had that under wraps, didn't he? I remember him mentioning this secret scene that would rival the chestburster scene and for a minute I thought that maybe there was something else we didn't know about - turns out the trailers included way too many spoilers. :-\
Ridley is quite arrogant and it doesn't help the quality of his movies.
His perception of things is very different to how they truly are.
I think he was going on about how epic their story was and this and that blah blah blah (I can't remember).
In the end there was very little story in this movie. A story needs a beginning, middle and end (no shit!).
This movie is actually like a 2 hour prologue with some bad film-making decisions along the way.
It would be better if they got a good ambitious director who knows how to weave a good story to do the next one (if anybody cares). Although I'd feel bad for that new director as they have to build upon something that's got a wonky foundation. And they've already pointlessly butchered Giger's work along the way by making everything shiny and post Minority Report in aesthetically (it works great for Thee Minority Report though).
Quote from: SiL on Sep 03, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
I was looking forward to seeing my friend's reaction when I went to see it with her, but the only thing that bothered her was the fact Shaw seemed awful athletic immediately following a c-section.
"So, the whole scene with the baby alien ... "
"It was bullshit! You couldn't run around and pull yourself up like she was at the end after a c-section. You're not allowed to lift anything for, like, a week afterwards."
I read about criticisms of Shaw running around after the c-section, but once I saw the film a) it's the f**king future and b) she's doubled over in pain is nearly every second shot.
QuoteIn the end there was very little story in this movie. A story needs a beginning, middle and end (no shit!).
:laugh: It had plenty of story, it just didn't have a proper ending.
QuoteRidley is quite arrogant and it doesn't help the quality of his movies.
His perception of things is very different to how they truly are.
Yeah Alien sucked balls. And don't get me started on Blade Runner.
the music wasn't the best choice for "scaring the shit out of you",
you gotta admit.
Quote from: SM on Sep 03, 2012, 11:14:43 PM
Quote from: SiL on Sep 03, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
I was looking forward to seeing my friend's reaction when I went to see it with her, but the only thing that bothered her was the fact Shaw seemed awful athletic immediately following a c-section.
"So, the whole scene with the baby alien ... "
"It was bullshit! You couldn't run around and pull yourself up like she was at the end after a c-section. You're not allowed to lift anything for, like, a week afterwards."
I read about criticisms of Shaw running around after the c-section, but once I saw the film a) it's the f**king future and b) she's doubled over in pain is nearly every second shot.
QuoteIn the end there was very little story in this movie. A story needs a beginning, middle and end (no shit!).
:laugh: It had plenty of story, it just didn't have a proper ending.
QuoteRidley is quite arrogant and it doesn't help the quality of his movies.
His perception of things is very different to how they truly are.
Yeah Alien sucked balls. And don't get me started on Blade Runner.
I'm talking about the 73 year old Ridley Scott. Not the one of the past. I like a lot of his films. Even the ones that get slated.
But I think he's become all about simply satisfying certain aspects of characters and story, a kind of "yeah that's good enough, that'll do" attitude. He doesn't seem to creating anything of overall excellence anymore.
And Prometheus had very little story. It's story was that God visited us and then finding out God created us. Wow. HUGE story. Prometheus had a lot of plot though. Bad, messy, awfully paced plot.
By those standards, Alien had perhaps even less story. People go on an Alien planet and get killed.
Granted, Alien is a much better structured film than Prometheus.
Quite.
Extremely deep story that....
Maybe I should have made my point clearer and more rounded.
ALIEN and BLADE RUNNER have very simple stories. One is essentially a slasher movie, the other is about a hit man.
But they are both dripping in atmosphere and are perfect mood movies that pull you into their world and explore a lot of ideas in their subtexts.
Prometheus fails at creating a consistent mood and atmosphere that you can sink into and fails to follow through on it's potential saving grace which is a well told story with a beginning, middle and end.
They decided they wouldn't tell us the whole story for the sake of commerce and thought they could patch up the holes with some monster movie moments.
It's a 2.5/5* - 3/5* movie tops.
Quote from: SM on Sep 03, 2012, 11:14:43 PM
Quote from: SiL on Sep 03, 2012, 09:57:03 AM
I was looking forward to seeing my friend's reaction when I went to see it with her, but the only thing that bothered her was the fact Shaw seemed awful athletic immediately following a c-section.
"So, the whole scene with the baby alien ... "
"It was bullshit! You couldn't run around and pull yourself up like she was at the end after a c-section. You're not allowed to lift anything for, like, a week afterwards."
I read about criticisms of Shaw running around after the c-section, but once I saw the film a) it's the f**king future and b) she's doubled over in pain is nearly every second shot.
QuoteIn the end there was very little story in this movie. A story needs a beginning, middle and end (no shit!).
:laugh: It had plenty of story, it just didn't have a proper ending.
QuoteRidley is quite arrogant and it doesn't help the quality of his movies.
His perception of things is very different to how they truly are.
Yeah Alien sucked balls. And don't get me started on Blade Runner.
PLEASE tell me you're being sarcastic. :o
Speaking solely from my own opinion here, I thought the mood and atmosphere of Prometheus were near perfect. Very reminiscent to the style of Alien but still very much its own animal. I'd be lying if I said I was bored at any point during the film.
Prometheus's problems, for me at least, lied in the structure of the film. The editing and pacing had plenty of problems that I would love to see improved.
^ It wasn't anywhere as immersive as Alien and there's some well documented dumb stuff, but I more or less agree.
Quote from: tmjhur on Sep 04, 2012, 12:20:52 AM
Maybe I should have made my point clearer and more rounded.
ALIEN and BLADE RUNNER have very simple stories. One is essentially a slasher movie, the other is about a hit man.
But they are both dripping in atmosphere and are perfect mood movies that pull you into their world and explore a lot of ideas in their subtexts.
Prometheus fails at creating a consistent mood and atmosphere that you can sink into and fails to follow through on it's potential saving grace which is a well told story with a beginning, middle and end.
They decided they wouldn't tell us the whole story for the sake of commerce and thought they could patch up the holes with some monster movie moments.
It's a 2.5/5* - 3/5* movie tops.
Scott's movies are primarily visual masterclasses (well his better ones anyway). He doesn't major on character and story as much. Prometheus is, I'd say, a very typical Scott movie. It has bags of atmosphere and looks fantastic - IMHO. It suffers in some of it's character development and pacing. The major difference between it and Alien is, simply put and IMHO, it's tone and a hugely original take on design concepts and the alien morphology.
The major difference is the scripts.
Alien was written by people who wanted to make tell a neat story well and as unpretentious as possible.
Prometheus was ostensibly written by people who didn't realise most of the rest of humanity no longer considers "Maybe aliens made us?" a particularly novel or deep idea.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 04, 2012, 07:27:01 AM
The major difference is the scripts.
Alien was written by people who wanted to make tell a neat story well and as unpretentious as possible.
Prometheus was ostensibly written by people who didn't realise most of the rest of humanity no longer considers "Maybe aliens made us?" a particularly novel or deep idea.
Playing devil's advocate for a second:
Quote
Alien was ostensibly written by people who didn't realise most of the rest of humanity no longer considers "simplistic haunted house" a particularly novel or deep idea.
I don't believe that, and I also don't believe that the Prometheus story was any more cliched or unoriginal than any other movie. Alien is about as unoriginal as you can get.
Quote from: zoidy on Sep 04, 2012, 11:27:25 AM
Quote from: SiL on Sep 04, 2012, 07:27:01 AM
The major difference is the scripts.
Alien was written by people who wanted to make tell a neat story well and as unpretentious as possible.
Prometheus was ostensibly written by people who didn't realise most of the rest of humanity no longer considers "Maybe aliens made us?" a particularly novel or deep idea.
Playing devil's advocate for a second:
Quote
Alien was ostensibly written by people who didn't realise most of the rest of humanity no longer considers "simplistic haunted house" a particularly novel or deep idea.
I don't believe that, and I also don't believe that the Prometheus story was any more cliched or unoriginal than any other movie. Alien is about as unoriginal as you can get.
This isn't aimed at you or anything but you just jogged my memory of the silliness of Shaw's character.
"I believe, because I choose to believe it."
F**k, late 21st century Christians. Still sending missionaries to Africa. F**k off. What an interesting Alien movie.
Quote from: zoidy on Sep 04, 2012, 11:27:25 AM
I don't believe that, and I also don't believe that the Prometheus story was any more cliched or unoriginal than any other movie. Alien is about as unoriginal as you can get.
There is a distinction in that Dan O'Bannon was happy to admit that Alien was derivative of other B-movies and EC comic strips. He championed Giger and the film's artists for its originality or freshness. Ridley's direction also helped; the film's incredibly immersive. Prometheus stumbled because it wanted to go beyond the relatively simple set-up of Alien and be something grandiose and shattering, but it resorted to the sort of trickery we all see on History channel alien shows and von Daniken literature which is, essentially, a pseudo-scientific take on Lovecraft (a guy that Ridley, like O'Bannon, really should have turned to). With Alien, the writers, all three of them (O'Bannon, Giler, and Hill - you can throw in ideas-men like Cobb and Shussett too) were all scrumming to get their end into the film. What resulted was a wonderful mixing pot of ideas. With Prometheus, both writers made it clear that they were conduits for Ridley, and what we get is something sort of flat and almost one-dimensional, ideas-wise. Back in the Blade Runner days, Scott and Hampton Fancher would almost literally duke it out when it came to the writing, and David Peoples also did his thing nicely; throwing in an idea of his own but also translating Ridley's thoughts. They were collaborative. Now with Ridley's reputation, it seems like all he got were yes-men in the shape of Lindelof.
My two pennies, anyway.
QuoteF**k, late 21st century Christians. Still sending missionaries to Africa. F**k off. What an interesting Alien movie.
Yes, because religion doesn't exist in Alien movies. ::)
Quote from: SM on Sep 03, 2012, 11:14:43 PMI read about criticisms of Shaw running around after the c-section, but once I saw the film a) it's the f**king future and b) she's doubled over in pain is nearly every second shot.
Her legs wouldn't work, regardless of how much Cordrazine was in her system. ;)
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 04, 2012, 12:45:52 PMNow with Ridley's reputation, it seems like all he got were yes-men in the shape of Lindelof.
And what he needed was no-men, just decent writers.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 04, 2012, 07:27:01 AM
The major difference is the scripts.
Alien was written by people who wanted to make tell a neat story well and as unpretentious as possible.
Prometheus was ostensibly written by people who didn't realise most of the rest of humanity no longer considers "Maybe aliens made us?" a particularly novel or deep idea.
I'd agree with that... although I'd be more specific and state that
Alien was created by a group of people who wanted to make a scary movie, and who championed a design aesthetic, as then, not seen on film. Whereas
Prometheus is a much more commercial movie designed to appeal to a much broader audience.
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Sep 04, 2012, 03:10:22 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 03, 2012, 11:14:43 PMI read about criticisms of Shaw running around after the c-section, but once I saw the film a) it's the f**king future and b) she's doubled over in pain is nearly every second shot.
Her legs wouldn't work, regardless of how much Cordrazine was in her system. ;)
Future, new, better drugs.
I'm sort of surprised people can be very deep and logical about certain flaws within the movie but not recognize that it's a.) Far enough in the future to where ftl exists and medicine has advanced a lot and b.)We don't actually KNOW how much time has passed from when she meets up with weyland for the first time to when they're all suddenly gearing up to go to the pyramid.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2012, 03:44:27 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Sep 04, 2012, 03:10:22 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 03, 2012, 11:14:43 PMI read about criticisms of Shaw running around after the c-section, but once I saw the film a) it's the f**king future and b) she's doubled over in pain is nearly every second shot.
Her legs wouldn't work, regardless of how much Cordrazine was in her system. ;)
Future, new, better drugs.
Drugs can`t overrun anatomy flaws ;)
Quote from: thecaffeinatedone on Sep 04, 2012, 03:50:34 PM
I'm sort of surprised people can be very deep and logical about certain flaws within the movie but not recognize that it's a.) Far enough in the future to where ftl exists and medicine has advanced a lot
It's utterly ridiculous, scientifically, in Alien where Lambert says they are 10 months travel time from Zeta II Reticuli to Earth - in Aliens the better technology (or military supremacy > truckers) has rendered this into a matter of weeks. So I don't get too hung up on a couple of implausibilities, s'long as they're not absolutely glaring (100% DNA match, err ...)
I need to watch again, but my recollection was that it was just 'match', not '100% match'...which is plausible.
Quote(100% DNA match,
Yeah, it's silly how the jockey creates all life on earth by breaking his body apart and then the DNA just happens to evolve to his exact strand. Kind of like a lazy way of connecting the jockey's and humans. Possibly it's the fact that two different scripts were written and cobbled together? Or maybe Lindelof was just like, "make DNA match, no make organic plot"
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2012, 03:44:27 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Sep 04, 2012, 03:10:22 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 03, 2012, 11:14:43 PMI read about criticisms of Shaw running around after the c-section, but once I saw the film a) it's the f**king future and b) she's doubled over in pain is nearly every second shot.
Her legs wouldn't work, regardless of how much Cordrazine was in her system. ;)
Future, new, better drugs.
Yeah that never really bothered me. I'm sure we see her take tablets, then an injection, then the med pod spray's her across the guts with another presumably pain killing liquid. It's pretty clear she's drugged up like a mofo.
Plus getting cut open by a laser would prevent tearing of tissue. I'd assume it would be like a hot knife through butter.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2012, 04:03:10 PM
I need to watch again, but my recollection was that it was just 'match', not '100% match'...which is plausible.
it is like you said. they just show the dna animation on the screen getting on top of eachother and a big text that says match. they don't give any number
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2012, 04:03:10 PM
I need to watch again, but my recollection was that it was just 'match', not '100% match'...which is plausible.
I saw it twice and remember 100%, as did a couple of the people we saw it with (we all remarked on it afterwards). We could be wrong though.
I clearly recall it just saying "MATCH"--no number. Either way, it's still dumb.
They are as much phisically different to us as a tutsi is different to a caucasian - or what have you.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Sep 04, 2012, 06:50:01 PM
They are as much phisically different to us as a tutsi is different to a caucasian - or what have you.
But a tutsi and a caucasian would have pretty much the exact same DNA--they are both of the same species. :P
What's stupid about the Engineers and us having the exact same DNA is that there's, oh, a billion years of evolution between the two to account for. And also why the Engineers themselves
haven't changed at all in that time.
But they look like us, as said.
The idea is dumbfounded to begin with IMHO.
Quote from: Cvalda on Sep 04, 2012, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Sep 04, 2012, 06:50:01 PM
They are as much phisically different to us as a tutsi is different to a caucasian - or what have you.
But a tutsi and a caucasian would have pretty much the exact same DNA--they are both of the same species. :P
What's stupid about the Engineers and us having the exact same DNA is that there's, oh, a billion years of evolution between the two to account for. And also why the Engineers themselves haven't changed at all in that time.
Prometheus and bad science: http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/ (http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/)
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 04, 2012, 07:13:46 PM
Prometheus and bad science: http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/ (http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/)
Now you're just rubbing our noses in it >:( :P
Is... is the dialogue extract in that article verbatim?
What, this?:
QuoteElizabeth Shaw: We call them engineers.
Fifield: Engineers? You mind telling us what they engineered?
Elizabeth Shaw: They engineered us.
Fifield: Bullshit.
Millburn: OK so do you have anything to back that up? I mean look, how do you discount three centuries of Darwinism? How do you know?
Elizabeth Shaw: I don't but it's what I choose to believe.
Yes.
But that's not even the
really bad dialogue--of which there is pllleeeenntttyy more.
Quote from: Cvalda on Sep 04, 2012, 07:05:41 PM
And also why the Engineers themselves haven't changed at all in that time.
er... er.... hrm...
http://bigthink.com/ideas/26647
Quote from: Cvalda on Sep 04, 2012, 07:29:58 PM
Yes.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markta.co.uk%2Falien%2Fscreens9%2Falien_192.JPG&hash=8a6c9e01606e6f8f42dcc9c851c18c86eb9f092b)
No... no... They're out of their minds!
Quote from: Blacklabel on Sep 04, 2012, 07:42:10 PM
er... er.... hrm... http://bigthink.com/ideas/26647
"So in other words, chances are, decades from now, we'll look pretty much the same."
Uh, no shit.
A billion years from now, if our species is even still around (it won't be by all odds), we will most certainly look drastically different than we do now. To say that we won't is just silliness.
Quote from: Cvalda on Sep 04, 2012, 07:48:25 PM
A billion years from now, if our species is even still around (it won't be by all odds), we will most certainly look drastically different than we do now. To say that we won't is just silliness.
The point in the article is that we are now (mostly) in control of our own evolutionary process. I doubt that we'll have extra limbs or webbed hands by the year 1000000000 AD .. :laugh: nah.. mankind will probably stick with what has worked.
the big changes will probably come in the way of man/machine interaction with enhanced cybernetics etc... or changes at the chemical level, with enhanced control of our own DNA to eradicate hereditary sickness etc.. etc..
and guess what.. that's pretty much what we get with the engineers in the film :P No biomech in the first "Engie" we see. The newer models we got in touch with on LV223, though...
Quote from: Blacklabel on Sep 04, 2012, 07:55:44 PM
the big changes will probably come in the way of man/machine interaction with enhanced cybernetics etc... or changes at the chemical level, with enhanced control of our own DNA to eradicate hereditary sickness etc.. etc..
You're still thinking at an immediate level of time, though. A billion years is a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time. Long enough for bacteria to turn into protists into arthropods into fish into amphibians into reptiles into rodents into monkeys into apes into us. And yet in allllllllllllllllllllllll that deep time, the biggest change the Engineers go through is to don a tapir suit? And still tend to some little ball of savages for no clear purpose? It's so ridiculous.
A race that advanced, a billion years after seeding Earth with life--why would they still even care? Why would they still even have frail physical bodies that can get burned in a ship crash and face raped? I'm sure a billion years of technological development would allow them to, I dunno, ascend to a higher plane of existence like the aliens in
2001 or somesuch--but no, they're still just a bunch of tall pale guys who throw a temper tantrum and decide to wipe out all life because Space Jesus got crucified. What kind of idiot ancient aliens are these?
Higher planes of "existence" make me cringe :P
what.. do they all grow fairy wings and magically go into some alternate dimention?
It might well happen that there are limits to what physics can lead us to do. :laugh:
...and at least the engineers were bullet proof. :laugh:
srsly now.. the movie expands so little on the differences between the first engineers we see and the biomech ones that continuing this discussion is akin to discussing the sex of angels... a new movie may well end up estabilishing the biomech as.. dun dun dun.. not being a suit at all... rather something that makes them more akin to the first Giger Alien.. that may well be what they "are" now.
of course 16 million years of evolution has done very little effect on the great white shark... given the right conditions.. another 16 million years might have little effect on them again... and what if the shark had the technology to render null the effect of the evolutionary process? Could he remain virtually the same.. forever?
Answer here:
Spoiler
Laser sharks madafaka. Pew Pew
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.westword.com%2Fshowandtell%2Fassets_c%2F2010%2F08%2F05shark-thumb-325x190.jpg&hash=4503f8de57ad2d350b0fd5758fad6eec015b3bb5)
Quote from: Blacklabel on Sep 04, 2012, 08:25:14 PM
Higher planes of "existence" make me cringe :P
what.. do they all grow fairy wings and magically go into some alternate dimention?
No, they just get immortal, all-powerful and make for an extremely cool lawn ornament.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.staticflickr.com%2F4102%2F4856543733_75045552e0_z.jpg&hash=87e0ff2fc67d9cab4b4a66dd33dd6324903c12d3)
the hipster variety of garden gnomes, then. :laugh:
What the engineers are up to in between seeding a planet with life and the time that we eventually find them is something that also bugs me...
i'd favor the fanwank theory of an alternate dimension were time ticks by much slower in relation to time in the standard universe...:P 1/1000 of time perhumps. :P (Of course time would still go by normally for the engineers)
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 04, 2012, 07:13:46 PM
Quote from: Cvalda on Sep 04, 2012, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Sep 04, 2012, 06:50:01 PM
They are as much phisically different to us as a tutsi is different to a caucasian - or what have you.
But a tutsi and a caucasian would have pretty much the exact same DNA--they are both of the same species. :P
What's stupid about the Engineers and us having the exact same DNA is that there's, oh, a billion years of evolution between the two to account for. And also why the Engineers themselves haven't changed at all in that time.
Prometheus and bad science: http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/ (http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/)
Alot of those questions are actually answered in film...and some a quick Google search answers (Guy Pearce --> Old). One is simply anal (DNA look...at least they got the handedness of the helix right), one is quickly answered (Carbon dating --> They do atmosphere analysis. I doubt detecting isotopes is impossible in a FTL world, explaining the dating ability), and the evolutionary one isn't at all answered. It could well be they guided our evolution. Or it could be we just evolved the way we did
without their interference. Or, maybe there is a 'god'.
Quote from: Cvalda on Sep 04, 2012, 08:28:38 PM
Quote from: Blacklabel on Sep 04, 2012, 08:25:14 PM
Higher planes of "existence" make me cringe :P
what.. do they all grow fairy wings and magically go into some alternate dimention?
No, they just get immortal, all-powerful and make for an extremely cool lawn ornament.
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4102/4856543733_75045552e0_z.jpg
Either that, or God's setting up an amazing domino chain.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Sep 04, 2012, 08:30:24 PM
the hipster variety of garden gnomes, then. :laugh:
Hipsters don't
have gardens, duh.
http://hipstergardener.wordpress.com/ (http://hipstergardener.wordpress.com/)
MIND BLOWN.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F004%2F077%2FRaisins_Face.jpg&hash=bd97884d29bf7a076970541ce4dec017e277b397)
They've learned to work the land!
i bet that at least 5% of said land is for growing cannabis :P
not judging.. just saying. :)
These are hipsters, Blacklabel, not stoners. Marijuana is too mainstream.
They bake all their drugs in an oven using conventional household cleaning supplies.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Sep 04, 2012, 08:43:29 PM
i bet that at least 5% of said land is for growing cannabis :P
not judging.. just saying. :)
Hipsters are usually straight edge,
maaaan. Let
me grow the cannabis :)
Quote from: Cvalda on Sep 04, 2012, 08:07:34 PM
Quote from: Blacklabel on Sep 04, 2012, 07:55:44 PM
the big changes will probably come in the way of man/machine interaction with enhanced cybernetics etc... or changes at the chemical level, with enhanced control of our own DNA to eradicate hereditary sickness etc.. etc..
You're still thinking at an immediate level of time, though. A billion years is a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time. Long enough for bacteria to turn into protists into arthropods into fish into amphibians into reptiles into rodents into monkeys into apes into us. And yet in allllllllllllllllllllllll that deep time, the biggest change the Engineers go through is to don a tapir suit? And still tend to some little ball of savages for no clear purpose? It's so ridiculous.
A race that advanced, a billion years after seeding Earth with life--why would they still even care? Why would they still even have frail physical bodies that can get burned in a ship crash and face raped? I'm sure a billion years of technological development would allow them to, I dunno, ascend to a higher plane of existence like the aliens in 2001 or somesuch--but no, they're still just a bunch of tall pale guys who throw a temper tantrum and decide to wipe out all life because Space Jesus got crucified. What kind of idiot ancient aliens are these?
I don't follow? In the movie they seed human life, not all life. Are you trying to say that it's implied in the movie that the Engineers started everything on planet earth?
I thought it was pretty clear that they only built humans, which would be in ten's of thousands of years, not millions.
Quote from: Highland on Sep 05, 2012, 10:27:53 AM
I thought it was pretty clear that they only built humans, which would be in ten's of thousands of years, not millions.
Which completely ignores our ancestral heritage and the other hominid species from which we emerged. I think Kubrick's 2001 had a neat trick where it showed one particular group of naturally evolved creatures being given the spark of human intelligence, which presumably lead to our ancestors and eventually us. Prometheus is kind of muddled in that it wants to be a mythological film in a scientific context. I don't think we'll ever really come to a complete understanding of what it's clearly trying to say.
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 05, 2012, 11:18:42 AM
Quote from: Highland on Sep 05, 2012, 10:27:53 AM
I thought it was pretty clear that they only built humans, which would be in ten's of thousands of years, not millions.
Which completely ignores our ancestral heritage and the other hominid species from which we emerged. I think Kubrick's 2001 had a neat trick where it showed one particular group of naturally evolved creatures being given the spark of human intelligence, which presumably lead to our ancestors and eventually us. Prometheus is kind of muddled in that it wants to be a mythological film in a scientific context. I don't think we'll ever really come to a complete understanding of what it's clearly trying to say.
I just assumed he was going for the whole "missing link" thing.
Quote from: Highland on Sep 05, 2012, 10:27:53 AM
Quote from: Cvalda on Sep 04, 2012, 08:07:34 PM
Quote from: Blacklabel on Sep 04, 2012, 07:55:44 PM
the big changes will probably come in the way of man/machine interaction with enhanced cybernetics etc... or changes at the chemical level, with enhanced control of our own DNA to eradicate hereditary sickness etc.. etc..
You're still thinking at an immediate level of time, though. A billion years is a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time. Long enough for bacteria to turn into protists into arthropods into fish into amphibians into reptiles into rodents into monkeys into apes into us. And yet in allllllllllllllllllllllll that deep time, the biggest change the Engineers go through is to don a tapir suit? And still tend to some little ball of savages for no clear purpose? It's so ridiculous.
A race that advanced, a billion years after seeding Earth with life--why would they still even care? Why would they still even have frail physical bodies that can get burned in a ship crash and face raped? I'm sure a billion years of technological development would allow them to, I dunno, ascend to a higher plane of existence like the aliens in 2001 or somesuch--but no, they're still just a bunch of tall pale guys who throw a temper tantrum and decide to wipe out all life because Space Jesus got crucified. What kind of idiot ancient aliens are these?
I don't follow? In the movie they seed human life, not all life. Are you trying to say that it's implied in the movie that the Engineers started everything on planet earth?
I thought it was pretty clear that they only built humans, which would be in ten's of thousands of years, not millions.
I have to say that I thought it was the building blocks for all life... in order that it could naturally evolve into homo erectus etc.
In the concept art it is shown that all kind of stuff happens after he gets disolved in the water. And everything finishes with a reptile of somekind emerging from the water. The concept was probably that the engineers seeded all life,not just human.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvyle-art.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2Fsalamndo.jpg&hash=c718853502c08bf80e3d3cd5245fe56972451ff8)
Weren't there trees in the background of the opening scene?
Or was that just a still?
They were Engineers. In a still.
Nah I'm sure I saw another one where there were trees on a hill way in the background on the far side of the waterfall?
Or something?
Quote from: zuzuki on Sep 05, 2012, 12:17:17 PM
In the concept art it is shown that all kind of stuff happens after he gets disolved in the water. And everything finishes with a reptile of somekind emerging from the water. The concept was probably that the engineers seeded all life,not just human.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvyle-art.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2Fsalamndo.jpg&hash=c718853502c08bf80e3d3cd5245fe56972451ff8)
In that case the Planet shown doesn't really make sense then since life didn't just wait until the planet was all nicey Scottish hillside with waterfalls. Although he did say it could be any planet.
Quote from: SM on Sep 05, 2012, 11:38:40 PM
Nah I'm sure I saw another one where there were trees on a hill way in the background on the far side of the waterfall?
Or something?
Not trees... hundreds of other engineers, there to watch the ritual.
Oh right.
Quote from: BANE on Sep 04, 2012, 03:44:27 PM
Quote from: ChrisPachi on Sep 04, 2012, 03:10:22 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 03, 2012, 11:14:43 PMI read about criticisms of Shaw running around after the c-section, but once I saw the film a) it's the f**king future and b) she's doubled over in pain is nearly every second shot.
Her legs wouldn't work, regardless of how much Cordrazine was in her system. ;)
Future, new, better drugs.
Better than Cordrazine!? Get the f**k out... ;)
Found this flaoting about over on Facebook a few hours ago...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi16.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb13%2FAndyUK_1962%2FParadise.jpg&hash=30216f334ed530175ee82b4fe3fb2870dbf97d03)
...the image has been around a while, so probably not gonna happen, but nice piece anyway!
(unless of course, someone else here knows different) ::)
Its fan art.
damn good fan art (other than the tagline, which I'm not a huge fan of), but fan art nonetheless.
The actual image in it isn't fan art, though, it's original concept art for the pyramid.
Quote from: Cvalda on Sep 06, 2012, 04:22:20 PM
The actual image in it isn't fan art, though, it's original concept art for the pyramid.
Indeed you're spot on, I believe the image first appeared in Prometheus: The Art of the Film book by Mark Salisbury, I doubt the sequel will even be Paradise anyway, just thought the idea it was a nice touch :)
Ahh, wasn't aware of that. In that case, great concept are used effectively in a really cool fan poster.
As for the title, I think Paradise could be really cool for the next film. Whether it ends up happening or not is a whole different story :P
Anyone think 2015 is likely to happen for Prometheus 2. 2014 has a lot of stuff coming out in the summer, so I think 2015 will be a safer bet.
I'd say 2015 at the earliest, but it could just as easily come out 2016 or beyond...
By 2015 it has been three years since the first film came out. It seems like a good time gab between the two.
Probably that new flick with Brad Pitt, Fassbender, etc., based on Cormac McCarthy then Blade Runner 2 then Prometheus 2...
Quote from: Salt The Fries on Sep 14, 2012, 05:39:04 AM
Probably that new flick with Brad Pitt, Fassbender, etc., based on Cormac McCarthy then Blade Runner 2 then Prometheus 2...
Ridley's already shooting "The Counselor" (that new flick with Fassbender, Pitt and Bardem). The production has been halted for two weeks after Tony Scott's dead.
I remember reading that Spaihts has been approached during the postproduction of the Robin Hood.. Didn't Ridley said that he already contacted the guy who wrote the original Blade Runner script to speak about the sequel? If I follow Ridley's system right, I see The Counselor during the summer of 2013, shooting of BR2 during the fall of 2013, 2014 summer release, Prometheus 2 production afterward, release during 2015.
So I have about a year or two for becoming bigass screenwriter who can be blamed here later :D
Quote from: Zenzucht on Sep 14, 2012, 02:35:40 PM
Quote from: Salt The Fries on Sep 14, 2012, 05:39:04 AM
Probably that new flick with Brad Pitt, Fassbender, etc., based on Cormac McCarthy then Blade Runner 2 then Prometheus 2...
Ridley's already shooting "The Counselor" (that new flick with Fassbender, Pitt and Bardem). The production has been halted for two weeks after Tony Scott's dead.
I remember reading that Spaihts has been approached during the postproduction of the Robin Hood.. Didn't Ridley said that he already contacted the guy who wrote the original Blade Runner script to speak about the sequel? If I follow Ridley's system right, I see The Counselor during the summer of 2013, shooting of BR2 during the fall of 2013, 2014 summer release, Prometheus 2 production afterward, release during 2015.
So I have about a year or two for becoming bigass screenwriter who can be blamed here later :D
It doesn't mean he will direct all these movies. He will most likely produce or oversee some of them. I don't seee him direct neither Blade Runner or Prometheus 2
And suddenly I am really up for this sequel....
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-fox-studios-cochairman-tom-rothman-forced-out-20120914,0,3201671.story (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-fox-studios-cochairman-tom-rothman-forced-out-20120914,0,3201671.story) :laugh:
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 04, 2012, 07:13:46 PM
Prometheus and bad science: http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/ (http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/)
Oh man, I hate reviews that start with references to The Phantom Menace... ::) It just reminds me of wannabe critics that rant about episode I, indy IV and Starcraft.
Nothing against the guy though ;), just the following paragraphs.
QuoteI still have no clue why the android would poison the scientist! I still have no clue why face-melting acid turned the ginger into a monster! I don't know why they did not cast a old man to play Peter Weyland and what his caricature hoped to achieve by meeting one of the aliens. As well as nothing making any sense, it was not scary in the slightest. In fact, it was quite the opposite. I found myself bursting with laughter at the death of Meredith Vickers (Charlize Theron), which she could easily have prevented by walking two metres to her left.
Er... all of those situations were supposed to be left in the open.
David could have "decided" to do a test wih the scientist, or Weiland could have ordered him to do it, or any other reason.
Why would I care why the ginger turns into a monster? He got hit with it and turned into a monster. I don't need to know why.
They didn't cast an old man because they wanted consistency with the viral video, or they liked the actor, or both. But that's fair to ask I think.
And I doubt that Vickers would be able to easily outrun a GIANT HUMONGOUS CRASHING SPACESHIP lol. I'm actually more bothered by Shaw having survived that.
Quoteit's when TV shows and movies show the cartoon version of DNA instead of the actual structure.
Yes, but just try showing the "real" version in the movie. Nobody would have a clue of what was happening. It's one of those things you do in movies to facilitate the viewing and understanding of the movie.
Other than that, I'm ok with his other points.
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 04, 2012, 07:13:46 PM
Prometheus and bad science: http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/ (http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/)
I always hate when people look into real science and realism in Sci-Fi movie. I guess people forget the "fiction" in science fiction ::).
Quote from: Hellspawn28 on Sep 15, 2012, 07:36:15 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Sep 04, 2012, 07:13:46 PM
Prometheus and bad science: http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/ (http://mylespower.co.uk/2012/06/07/bad-science-in-ridley-scotts-prometheus/)
I always hate when people look into real science and realism in Sci-Fi movie. I guess people forget the "fiction" in science fiction ::).
I guess there must be a threshold someplace, but the "bad" science doesn't really bother me in the movie. And I actually enjoyed the bits where the movie decided to be more subtle and not explain everything right away. It did seem to have a little bad editing/silly scenes in there and I hope that they fix that in the sequel.
I would love a sequel with just Shaw and David searching for the engineer's homeworld/whatever although I realize that that would be an hell of an undertaking, making a movie with only 2 characters and a whole alien world.
I like things being kept mysterious. We don't need to explain everything, after all, the point is that everything is alien, right? Most events in Prometheus seemed to be accidental and all of the life forms that appeared in that ship were just consequences. There wasn't really any antagonist apart from the Engineers/Weiland/Vickers/David and even then they're still just consequences of all of their paths crossing. Everything seems a bit accidental in this movie.
I think that that's one of the reasons that it divides people. People were expecting a story with more of a purpose and it ended up being all about just the consequences, hence all the random monsters being released from the space ship or neither the engineers/weiland/Vickers/David getting what they want.
I don't know if I'm explaining myself well here, but the whole movie's plot seems to be just about consequences, like, none of the characters seem to achieve anything by the end of it and it was all just a series of events. I don't quite know what to make of that. The ending did feel a little empty but it could still serve as a prologue for a more fulfilling story in the sequel.
The idea of fiction is pretty much escapism. Just trying to make movies realistic now these days just ruins the fun of it. I do agree that there are times when a movie can be too stupid, but I never care about how real the science is in movies. As long if the story and acting is good then that's what I care about.
I'd only care about bad science in a movie if it had claimed to be completely accurate, thoroughly-researched, hard sci-fi.
Something which Prometheus never claimed to be.
nor any of the other alien movies tbh.
Alien has sound in space, gravity aboard the Nostromo without rotation, dodgy physics for LV-426 (so small it wouldnt be able to have much gravity), FTL travel, ...a computer translating a purely alien transmission! (at the time.. of course that has now been retconned eh)
but none of it matters because it's a MOVIE... it's not a f**king documentary. Storytelling comes first, folks :P
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Sep 16, 2012, 08:55:56 PM
I'd only care about bad science in a movie if it had claimed to be completely accurate, thoroughly-researched, hard sci-fi.
Something which Prometheus never claimed to be.
Maybe not completely accurate nor thoroughly researched (would never believe that looking at Ridley's mind-boggling quotes) but Lindelof called it "hard sc-fi" -- he told i09: "And I do think that the idea that Prometheus is, in my opinion, a scifi movie first and foremost. It's hard scifi ... [it] is based on some sort of philosophical question that we have about the human experience and an exploration of that through scientific means." Spaihts, talking about writing the movie, said: "I'm a science junkie myself, so I usually go into a story with a pretty grounded scientific framework for my premise. I also work with an organization called the Science & Entertainment Exchange, whose entire reason for being is to connect filmmakers with scientists to improve storytelling and better represent science in fiction. I've had invaluable conversations with scientists – real luminaries in their fields – through that organization." He later adds, "I always fight for scientific rigor."
eh. They died by their mouth. Jon Spaihts, less so... we dont know yet what stuff he had on his version of the script.
Lindelof doesnt seem like a guy that is really into hard scifi.... or even seems to know it's definition.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Sep 16, 2012, 09:52:46 PM
eh. They died by their mouth. Jon Spaihts, less so... we dont know yet what stuff he had on his version of the script.
Lindelof doesnt seem like a guy that is really into hard scifi.... or even seems to know it's definition.
I would agree. He just seems to flap at the mouth, I'm not even sure if his flashes of humility are genuine or just an attempt to proactively save face.
Probably both.
Quote from: RoaryUK on Sep 15, 2012, 06:14:07 AM
And suddenly I am really up for this sequel....
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-fox-studios-cochairman-tom-rothman-forced-out-20120914,0,3201671.story (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-fox-studios-cochairman-tom-rothman-forced-out-20120914,0,3201671.story) :laugh:
Was Rothman an uncredited writer/ director on Prometheus?
Quote from: SpaceMarines on Sep 16, 2012, 08:55:56 PM
I'd only care about bad science in a movie if it had claimed to be completely accurate, thoroughly-researched, hard sci-fi.
Something which Prometheus never claimed to be.
Quite. I often find those sorts of articles just ego trips for the writer.
Eh. Tom Rothman had a rule that all FOX summer blockbuster releases should be under two hours to get more money from showings... this might explain a lot of the cuts to Prometheus :P
Prometheus was just over two hours.
X Men First Class was even more over two hours.
Ultimately it doesn't matter what Ridley says about cuts to the film - people will always assume it was forced on him by the studio.
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2012, 12:42:23 AM
Ultimately it doesn't matter what Ridley says about cuts to the film - people will always assume it was forced on him by the studio.
Yep. What we saw in theaters
is the director's cut and Ridley's preferred version of the film. Any future cut, with Ridley's involvement or not, will not be his preferred version. Still, I think I'm going to hold off on the first Blu Ray release, for a little while at least, just in case Fox has some kind of Special Edition up their sleeve.
Ridley did make comments about Alien being too "slow for today's audiences"... hm.. Prometheus seems to reflect his "newly found wisdom". eh.
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2012, 12:11:35 AM
Quite. I often find those sorts of articles just ego trips for the writer.
Huh. I find them interesting and informative.
Generally not the sciency ones. They often just smack of "See how much I know about science and those rich successful movie people don't! Love me!" Genuinely interesting nuggets of info often get lost under layers of vitriol and/ or smug.
It's all make believe.
I must just be reading the right reviews.
Either that or I'm getting old and don't care enough to join in the raging anymore.
I like Bad Astronomy (http://"http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/movies/index.html"). It's not really rage or smugness; half of the reviews are made up of "Yes, this is convention, but let's talk about the actual science for a sec cos it's interesting."
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2012, 12:11:35 AM
Quote from: RoaryUK on Sep 15, 2012, 06:14:07 AM
And suddenly I am really up for this sequel....
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-fox-studios-cochairman-tom-rothman-forced-out-20120914,0,3201671.story (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-fox-studios-cochairman-tom-rothman-forced-out-20120914,0,3201671.story) :laugh:
Was Rothman an uncredited writer/ director on Prometheus?
You don't know who Tom Rothman is or are you taking the pee....probably the latter I suspect. ;D Anyway, wether it will make any difference at FOX we'll just have to see, but it's interesting to note the guy was reportedly "pushed" and it seems wasn't popular with many actors/directors alike, which couldn't have been good for the studio.
I just hope they actually find something on the next planet :P
Quote from: keeperxiii on Sep 17, 2012, 09:17:37 AM
I just hope they actually find something on the next planet :P
For some reason I keep picturing the Engineers talking but the voice I hear is the Darth Maul voice from Phantom menace.
"At last we will have our revenge"
You know, some people don't like the fact that the engineers are actually humans and not the elephantine race that we love so much because it loses some of that lovecraftian vibe that the first movie does so well. While that is true, I'm still happy that they decided to go the way they did, since it makes it more of a story on its own, as opposed to just a prequel, even if the lifespan of the engineer's race is ludicrous :P
the space jockey from alien looked never elephantine to me. the jockeys are the best things about prometheus, but the other creatures (especially: trilobite) were so goddamn piss poor. the whole artistic direction was rather lame.
on the second part, the writers should add a background for the jockeys. just being gods dark angel who creates life and destroys the same life is a bit schizoid.
in order to create, you must first destroy is also an allegory to the alien lifecycle as the jockeys whole culture.
but loosing tom rothman is a good first step into the right direction. his decisions braked the necks of bunch of directors and their movies.
Thank god that Rothman has gone, he was the dumbass who was pushing PG13 films and the reason why we got a PG13 Die Hrad and why Prometheus was rumoured to be PG13 up until the very end (and it is PG13 really when you watch it).
Quote from: Mastes1 on Sep 17, 2012, 12:50:12 PM
Thank god that Rothman has gone, he was the dumbass who was pushing PG13 films and the reason why we got a PG13 Die Hrad and why Prometheus was rumoured to be PG13 up until the very end (and it is PG13 really when you watch it).
Add to that why the original script for daredevil got dumbed to a PG-13, why the third X-Men movie was terrible [his hatred of Giant Robots so no Sentinels [which was the only scene people cheered in that movie], Not waiting for contract to open up so you get lame off screen deaths, and offering Bryan Singer a wage reduction after the success of X-Men 2]. He is the reason Kingdom of Heaven was hacked apart for the Theatre release because he felt that a modern audience wouldn't want a 3 hour movie [most likely it was to get more screening daily]. This is just a small list.
You can read up on his handling of the first X-men film...He felt it was below him. He hacked the budget, movies the release day from November to May. He tried to make it a failure. It backfired to say the least.
I for one am glad to see him go. Though, the replacement might be no better. It is Fox.
Add to that:
Galactus as a f**king GIANT CLOUD was his idea. This is a rumour, but with his hate of giant robots it makes sense. And if you think about it, maybe this is part of the reason that the Engineer was made smaller. He hates giants.
There is a rumour he shot down "Alien 5" with Scott and Cameron because they had an "AvP" script he was happy with.
Back to Fantastic Four, he ok'd a comedy director for it and then complained the tone of the movie was wrong. Of course it was you hired the wrong f**king guy. He also cut the budget and rushed production of it.
also FUN FACT Tom Rothman was responsible for the whole mess that X-men: The Last Stand was (alienating and not setting a production start date even after X2's box office returns, which led to the director of the first two leaving after being offered Superman Returns, then Rothman fast tracked the third X-men movie's production ridiculously to beat Superman Returns to theaters, with of course runtime restrictions to maximize profits).
I hope Rothman never finds another job at any studio, although that is sadly unlikely.
I think he is not innocent in the butchering of Dragonball either.
Quote from: Promethée on Sep 17, 2012, 06:02:26 PM
I think he is not innocent in the butchering of Dragonball either.
The casting was off and the director wasn't great but it mostly lacked the confidence a studio should have. Before they even started filming they changed the budget to a laughable level...... Also they needed someone that actually knew the dragonball story.. But yeah to many things wrong with that movie. I actually felt raped when i left the theater..
Was he responsible for the TV productions as well? Can I blame him for wasting tons of money on Terra Nova and then not having the foresight to hire competente writers/producers? :P
Anyway, at least Prometheus had a pretty excelent production. CGI wasn't overused in the slightest and everything looks fantastic. I droll at the thought of seeing them create a truly alien world for the sequel (as opposed to the original's rock). Now they just need a few original creatures, as opposed to just random genetic freaks that look like mutants or squids. Supposedly that squid was meant to look like a proto-facehugger with a bit more "human" look.
Quote from: Snowdog on Sep 17, 2012, 06:29:29 PM
Quote from: Promethée on Sep 17, 2012, 06:02:26 PM
I think he is not innocent in the butchering of Dragonball either.
The casting was off and the director wasn't great but it mostly lacked the confidence a studio should have. Before they even started filming they changed the budget to a laughable level...... Also they needed someone that actually knew the dragonball story.. But yeah to many things wrong with that movie. I actually felt raped when i left the theater..
As soon as i saw chow yun fat attached i gave up hope. I love Chow Yun Fat, but as Master Roshii? No way, unless whenever he does anything doves go flying everywhere.
Master Roshi with doves flying everywhere? Count me in.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 17, 2012, 07:25:05 AM
I like Bad Astronomy (http://"http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/movies/index.html"). It's not really rage or smugness; half of the reviews are made up of "Yes, this is convention, but let's talk about the actual science for a sec cos it's interesting."
Phil Plaitt is one of the good ones. Bit nitpicky, but not to over the top.
Least he usually calls himself out when he's nit picking, though.
Tom Rothman is a legendary dick. But I'm pretty sure Dragonball had enough problems approaching something like quality filmmaking before a single line of dialogue was written or a single frame of film shot.
Think the Holocaust was Hitler's fault?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F26am.jpg&hash=a3e48857398904f6b99d3552a5f5f2015af4ad6a)
Rothman.
Quote from: SiL on Sep 18, 2012, 10:58:04 PM
Least he usually calls himself out when he's nit picking, though.
But he doesn't have a review of Prometheus or does he? I couldn't find any in his site at least.
Quote from: keeperxiii on Sep 19, 2012, 01:12:00 PM
Quote from: SiL on Sep 18, 2012, 10:58:04 PM
Least he usually calls himself out when he's nit picking, though.
But he doesn't have a review of Prometheus or does he? I couldn't find any in his site at least.
Maybe Prometheus was too obvious a target.
I don't think he's done any recent movies, they're just reviews I like.