Pretty surprisingly extensive interview here:
https://www.moviefone.com/2019/07/12/fred-dekker-interview-night-of-the-creeps-predator/
Highly doubt the original act would've made the movie any better but.... whatever, I guess.
It almost sounds like a better movie. Almost.
It doesn't really sound better than what we got.
May be the case in Predator Killer. They just put "=" between Predator-fans and Marvel-fans.
QuoteSigourney didn't want to clear any future for Ripley in the franchise and ultimately I don't think anybody remembers Newt well enough for that to have meant anything.
Oh, yes, no one remember Newt, because Aliens was released in 1986 - this is such an old film. No one is watching this today. Serious - thanks for not mixing Alien and Predator again, especially considering that The Predator has links to AvP films,
Kinda feel bad for him. His point on "Hollywood" trying to appeal to everyone is definitely a problem nowadays. But the film overall is still batshit crazy despite that.
In hindsight that motivation for them makes a surprising amount of sense considering the hell-hole in the galaxy their home-world is supposed to be.
It might not have been the film people had been expecting, but considering the last three films, pumping millions more into it for the sake of "purity" pretty much shot itself in the foot. These films never make Marvel levels of money and expecting it out of it now for the sake of comparing it to the other films while green-lighting it in the first place should probably have got that suit fired for it.
It's interesting to me that what hurt The Predator was pretty much what wee expected, a suit making a poor decision. Was there any firings over at Fox after this? I'm curious who actually made that call.
As ive said before i would have preferred the film to have possibly failed under its original vision, rather than getting cut up and redone
QuoteAt some point or another, the studio, I think, and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, but there were these misgivings that we were straying too far from what people expected the movie to be."
Thank you Fox. I'm all for expanding the Predator universe in creative, measured ways but wacky hybridization? Slapstick pred-dogs (which we got), pred-spiders, pred-monkeys? Plus completely
demystifing Predators with friendly ADI Crabators in camoflague suits working with humans and riding tanks and smoking cigarettes?
#FoxMadeTheRightDecision
#FoxOnlyHaveThemselvesToBlame
lol
Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Jul 13, 2019, 01:20:11 PM
#FoxOnlyHaveThemselvesToBlame
lol
#SadButTrue
They cauterized a wound they created. :-\
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7Zesyac4CuSN5rsA/giphy.gif)
Kind of a shame that it turned out this wait, we'll probably not get another Predator film give or take a decade or so.
I think we may see another Alien film in the next 5 years or so but probably nothing with a predator for at least a decade.
Test screenings, test audiences, business men meddling, rewrites and reshoots are nothing else than unprofessional behaviours that should stop as soon as possible, they only serve to make movies worse most of the time.
Having said that, this movie was doomed from the start because the very approach towards it was wrong, nothing could had made it decent except making a completely different movie, even the first half of the movie that is not completely bad is very choppy and mediocre.
Indeed. It was the worst possible idea right from the start. How it ever saw the light of day is darn near a mystery of the universe.
You co-star in Predator you're qualified to write Predator, apparently.
I was shocked when I read the script that was leaked. I thought Shane Black was supposed to be some kind of script writing wunderkind. The script was just awful, forget about the changes made to the lore, it was just a terrible script. The scene where the general was explaining the "emmisary" Preds...sounded like some 16 year old Predator fanboy trying to argue why his oc Predator should be the star of the next movie.
"Ok...they're, like, the good Predators, but they're still Predators man, so they're like still super badasses and kill prople and shit. It's, like, all morally GREY and shit, bro! Like Game of Thrones, bro!"
Only instead of calling the guy a moron Fox gave him 88 million dollars to film his fanfic.
I guess Dekker is still blaming anyone but himself for the way the film turned out, be it "toxic fans" or the studio. Never mind the terrible script he and Black wrote that was overwhelmingly laughed at when it was leaked.
Never mind that the finished product is no better than what their original vision was. Never mind that they de-mystified the Yautja and changed their entire reason for hunting and taking trophies, a move that goes directly against established expanded lore.
Even if for some reason the Predator Homeworld was dying, Black and Dekker seem to have completely forgotten about the Game Preserve planet established in Predator 3, which would easily be able to support them.
Black and Decker just don't seem to have done their research or if they did they didn't care about continuity or skilled writing. They might as well have had D&D do it for them.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 13, 2019, 05:26:55 PM
You co-star in Predator you're qualified to write Predator, apparently.
If only there had been some clue.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cheatsheet.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F07%2FBen-Kingsley-in-Iron-Man-3-1.jpg%3Fbe6cc4&hash=29b267157a81f13fa5152092ffc54999a7d91b55)
"Maybe we should move in. So the premise of the movie is that in the third act was these two predators come aboard the ship and everybody's freaking out and the predators actually want to communicate. They want to say, "Hey, we've got a problem, you have a problem. Maybe we should team up."
Sounds like an absolute shit premise
It'll never happen again.
That's the only silver lining.
So I'm guessing don't expect the deleted Emissary Predator scenes to be released anytime soon?
QuoteOh, yes, no one remember Newt, because Aliens was released in 1986 - this is such an old film. No one is watching this today.
The deleted scene said 'Rebecca Jorden'. A handful of people would pick that up and the rest of your audience is going to go "What?"
The movie sucked! The only enjoyable part ,was the captured Pred escaping the lab....the rest was an abomination
QuoteWe shot a version where Ripley was in the cocoon and we shot one where Newt from "Aliens" was in the cocoon. Sigourney didn't want to clear any future for Ripley in the franchise and ultimately I don't think anybody remembers Newt well enough for that to have meant anything..
Not to mention how absurd it is for characters that died on 2179 to be somehow alive on 2018. But then again I shouldn't expect those that wrote The Predator to realize this on their own.
It's science fiction. Time travel is a common trope and they were obviously going to introduce it.
On Alien/Predator? No. Just because its science fiction doesn't mean one can do anything. But in that case its quite easy to make the AVP movies fit in with David creating the alien. Just asspull timetraveling to explain any inconsistencies on movies or EU. Yay.
Besides Newt and Ripley died. Its wouldn't be just time travel but alternative timelines as well. At least this didn't happen.
So were they planning to carry on with those surprise characters in another film, or was it just supposed to be left as a cameo ending for the one?
I don't think those people at Fox are able to plan that far ahead. Or even have any idea at all on what they were trying to go with this. They are like dogs chasing cars, they wouldn't know what to do if they caught one, you know, they just do things.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jul 14, 2019, 12:47:59 AM
I don't think those people at Fox are able to plan that far ahead. Or even have any idea at all on what they were trying to go with this. They are like dogs chasing cars, they wouldn't know what to do if they caught one, you know, they just do things.
Close. Whoever it was, they just "doo" things, and hope it passes for entertainment.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jul 13, 2019, 11:55:51 PM
On Alien/Predator? No. Just because its science fiction doesn't mean one can do anything. But in that case its quite easy to make the AVP movies fit in with David creating the alien. Just asspull timetraveling to explain any inconsistencies on movies or EU. Yay.
Besides Newt and Ripley died. Its wouldn't be just time travel but alternative timelines as well. At least this didn't happen.
:laugh:
It's make believe. They can literally
do anything.
I think a doc Brown cameo could've saved it.
The movie shouldn't have been made.
Quote from: SM on Jul 14, 2019, 01:12:13 AM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Jul 13, 2019, 11:55:51 PM
On Alien/Predator? No. Just because its science fiction doesn't mean one can do anything. But in that case its quite easy to make the AVP movies fit in with David creating the alien. Just asspull timetraveling to explain any inconsistencies on movies or EU. Yay.
Besides Newt and Ripley died. Its wouldn't be just time travel but alternative timelines as well. At least this didn't happen.
:laugh:
It's make believe. They can literally do anything.
It's Fox/Disney's decision, yes, they can and will do whatever they want, there are no limits in a fictional universe. That doesn't mean they should.
To quote someone's uncle... "With great power comes great responsibility"
They tried something new, a lot of the fans didn't like where they went with the lore or the writing, lets not forget that, reviews were poor and the casual audience wasn't impressed enough to give it good word of mouth. It just didn't work and didn't perform as well as they hoped. Even with Covenants somewhat disappointment in performance, there's a reason we're having so much alien content now and the predator stuff is put mostly on "silent mode".
IMO the retroactive lore changes didn't work here. From a simple spine and skull loving techno tribal hunter to a rioded up planet invader with a corny sense of humor. The writing was very bad, as far as my taste goes, it didn't fit in well. The ending scene was hilarious and the alternative endings were unbelievable in the worst possible way. And the setting was very dull.
This movie is weird for me. I've never disliked an entry in the Alien/Predator universe this much and I really tried to not be a part of the hate fest, I tried to like the movie but it didn't work. I either enjoyed or loved all the other movies from both franchises as well as the games, comics, novels, but with this entry, my optimism and looking on the bright side of things failed.
I know that not everyone agrees with this though, but I do enjoy AVPR more than The Predator. I have fun more with a movie that tries to be serous and scary but fails than a movie that tries to be funny and fails. I've watched AVPR multiple times, I at least find it has fun moments, but I really can't make myself watch The Predator again with the only nice bit being the lab escape scene.
P.S. Every time I see mentioned about the change to the night setting cause that's where the scary comes from, I literally laugh.
I don't really have any issues with the lore as such.
There was just a few things wrong with the execution, and the longer it went more things went wrong.
Quote from: Nameless_1 on Jul 13, 2019, 08:51:37 PM
Even if for some reason the Predator Homeworld was dying, Black and Dekker seem to have completely forgotten about the Game Preserve planet established in Predator 3, which would easily be able to support them.
Great point!
Quote from: Still Collating... on Jul 14, 2019, 09:55:53 AM
Even with Covenants somewhat disappointment in performance, there's a reason we're having so much alien content now and the predator stuff is put mostly on "silent mode".
With Alien, I think it's easy to identify a lot of that was genesis from and buildup to Alien's 40th Anniversary less than two months ago, a fortunate well-timed palate cleanser for all that saw and felt sour towards Alien Covenant.
With Predator, I feel this pause after The Predator will service it well. It will alow fans and filmgoers to forget this, quite honest, easily forgettable film. Then in 2020 we get the Predator: Hunting Grounds Playstation Console game by IllFonic which, if great, hopefully will recharge the material.
QuoteI know that not everyone agrees with this though, but I do enjoy AVPR more than The Predator. I have fun more with a movie that tries to be serous and scary but fails than a movie that tries to be funny and fails. I've watched AVPR multiple times, I at least find it has fun moments, but I really can't make myself watch The Predator again with the only nice bit being the lab escape scene.
I agree with all of this. :)
Dekker being proud of that first act..... :-X
that first act is trash.
Quote from: SM on Jul 14, 2019, 10:54:21 AM
I don't really have any issues with the lore as such.
There was just a few things wrong with the execution, and the longer it went more things went wrong.
I honestly hope that I'll warm up to it eventually.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 14, 2019, 12:11:28 PM
Quote from: Nameless_1 on Jul 13, 2019, 08:51:37 PM
Even if for some reason the Predator Homeworld was dying, Black and Dekker seem to have completely forgotten about the Game Preserve planet established in Predator 3, which would easily be able to support them.
Great point!
Quote from: Still Collating... on Jul 14, 2019, 09:55:53 AM
Even with Covenants somewhat disappointment in performance, there's a reason we're having so much alien content now and the predator stuff is put mostly on "silent mode".
With Alien, I think it's easy to identify a lot of that was genesis from and buildup to Alien's 40th Anniversary less than two months ago, a fortunate well-timed palate cleanser for all that saw and felt sour towards Alien Covenant.
With Predator, I feel this pause after The Predator will service it well. It will alow fans and filmgoers to forget this, quite honest, easily forgettable film. Then in 2020 we get the Predator: Hunting Grounds Playstation Console game by IllFonic which, if great, hopefully will recharge the material.
Touche :)
Just watch Fox news and pretend they have say over how a predator movie should be made.
I am certain I woud have enjoyed the intended movie more. But not much more.
Perfect storm of bad script, bad casting, bad directing, and studio meddling. I gave it another try, but it was worse since I already knew the humorous moments.
These two franchises have it rough. That could be a documentary on its own. You have to do something new, but it should probably be slight deviations rather than total overhauls .
So they watched Independence day 2 and thought wow that's how our film should end ::)
Quote from: skhellter on Jul 14, 2019, 12:59:01 PM
Dekker being proud of that first act..... :-X
that first act is trash.
Haven't you heard?
The film was written just fine. If it wasn't for the studio and the fans, it would've been the best Predator movie ever.
It certainly had nothing to do with writers and directors and that sort of thing.
To me, it feels like Robocop 3 all over again. That movie was such a massive deviation and so badly written - The Predator is very similar.
Ultimatly it is Fox studios fault becaue they green light it and can influence the plot.
I just hope the people at disney get Legend Studios working on whatever comes next and do not over officiate to the point they ruin the creative direction of the franchise.
Predator still has all the potential in the right hands.
Just too bad about all the wasted time and let downs when the films are being produced.
Quote from: Huggs on Jul 13, 2019, 09:05:28 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jul 13, 2019, 05:26:55 PM
You co-star in Predator you're qualified to write Predator, apparently.
If only there had been some clue.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cheatsheet.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F07%2FBen-Kingsley-in-Iron-Man-3-1.jpg%3Fbe6cc4&hash=29b267157a81f13fa5152092ffc54999a7d91b55)
Interesting that IM3 was the exact same problems as The Predator: abuse of out of place comedy and completely unrelated story and characters to the brand the movie is named after, so i know that is a Shane thing and not a studio being **** thing.
Dude you do not get my point. No movie gets made untill studio says yes. If i give you two choices one good one bad and you choose bad then it is your fault not the guy who had the bad idea
Fox chooses when and who. If they made better choices then we would be getting a better movie. Not shanes fault fox fell for it.
Shane had a bad idea and fox green lit that idea. Fox could have hired someone else with a better idea.
Also Fox news is racist as f**k.
That interview is just headache-inducing. Shane and Fred seem like okay guys, and I've got a lot of respect for their early work, but this just reads like someone who doesn't understand the basics of the universe they're working in. Every idea that was thrown out was legitimately worse than what was put in or made no logical sense whatsoever, and what actually end up in the movie was terrible to begin with.
When you have the balls to conduct interviews pre-release saying "we'd only do this if it's a real event picture!" and talk up how it's their dream project etc. Then the final product looks like a SyFy Original, feeling cheaper than AVPR and dumber than Alien Resurrection. Not to mention the sheer hubris of calling it THE Predator, like some franchise reboot.. God the more I learn about this thing the worse it is.
I almost feel that this is all political or out of spite or just about paying off some Fox ceo's private island and not about making a great movie that sticks to what makes predator interesting. Legend studios stan winston for example.
I need another pay check so make a predator movie dont care the fans will pay anyway.
seems like hollywood lies ? :o
Quote from: razeak on Jul 14, 2019, 10:41:48 PM
Perfect storm of bad script, bad casting, bad directing, and studio meddling. I gave it another try, but it was worse since I already knew the humorous moments.
These two franchises have it rough. That could be a documentary on its own. You have to do something new, but it should probably be slight deviations rather than total overhauls .
This so much. I mean, if you're going to make changes, at least do it incrementally imo. Don't completely change things so its almost like a different franchise altogether.
There's a new Predator film??
Even the lab escape scene is terrible once you closely watch it and see all of the poor choreography, from soldiers with rifles trying to attack at close range to the Fugitive's terrible gun handling.
It was a step or three backwards for sure. The begining scene with the predator jumping from tree to tree and getting guts pourd on his face is still fun to watch.
It is by far the most unrewatchable predator film. With tiny silvers of entertainment scattered about.
I hope Disney can do better.
Quote from: Glaive on Jul 19, 2019, 11:30:47 PM
There's a new Predator film??
Yeah, something they call The Predator. Not sure what it is though. But trailers look ... interesting.
"So our idea was that their planet is dying. And so they've decided to take what previously was explored, which is to dope up creatures with the DNA of other types of predators from alien worlds and create new targets for their hunt. But now they realized, well, hey, we need maybe to upgrade ourselves just to survive. And then they go to themselves, well, hey, earth is warming up. We like a warm environment. Maybe we should move in. So the premise of the movie is that in the third act was these two predators come aboard the ship and everybody's freaking out and the predators actually want to communicate. They want to say, "Hey, we've got a problem, you have a problem. Maybe we should team up." "
This whole thing of "this happens...and that happens...and this happens" is why the movie failed. This whole idea was garbage.
The only parts of The Predator I could tolerate were the opening in the woods, the interior parts of the base escape, and a few moments in the forest hunt at the end.
As far as I'm concerned, the franchise excels at close quarters horror and sci-fi. Politics and global implications are just not its thing. Hostile predators hunting people in the subway, in buildings, alleyways, patches of forest. That's where the magic is.
To "PsyKor" what a great analogy! "The Predator" is totally the Robocop 3 of the predator franchise. Bigger action, no brains, new cast, removal of what made the original great while doing a half-hearted tone-deaf retread of some ideas while completely abandoning others. THIS movie is tragically bad and it breaks my heart that so many amazing creature people worked on it. It's sad how good creature work can essentially be tarnished by bad movies and vice versa.
Quote from: Jenga on Jul 22, 2019, 05:54:09 PM
To "PsyKor" what a great analogy! "The Predator" is totally the Robocop 3 of the predator franchise. Bigger action, no brains, new cast, removal of what made the original great while doing a half-hearted tone-deaf retread of some ideas while completely abandoning others. THIS movie is tragically bad and it breaks my heart that so many amazing creature people worked on it. It's sad how good creature work can essentially be tarnished by bad movies and vice versa.
I'm going to place this right here....
(https://i.ibb.co/Xz0vLbw/IMG-20190321-130005.jpg)
...and disappear. ;D
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HelpfulAlarmedEmperorshrimp-size_restricted.gif)
Fugitive is great predator's design. One day you'll admit it!
The premise of The Predator was weak. Predators are about challenge and adversity in the Hunt and the overwhelming danger a single one presents to human beings. The only purpose of a super predator was to amplify the sense of danger. Yet, in the end, the super predator was eliminated handily. This mocked the idea of genetic enhancement, which itself has been done before. Plus, Olivia Munn was badly miscast and executed by script writers and actress alike. She behaved like a Navy Seal who happened to have a genetics degree and was, like the clown scientists in Alien: Covenant, quite unscientific. Black tried too hard to replicate the chemistry of the boys in the first Predator movie but ended up with a group less impressive than that in Predators. In the end, the danger arose for a bit and then was eliminated. The rest of the story - the end of the direction it was headed - was just left hanging. Coming to our world? Heck, no! The Predator didn't go anywhere except in a circle. We needed a home run. We got a long fly foul ball.
Ouch Fred Dekker, you'll trigger Neill Blomkamp with such a statement about the memorability of certain characters of Alien³/Aliens, even though you're correct to the majority of a modern audience.