Why is it so seemingly difficult for producers to drop Ripley’s character?

Started by nanison, Aug 02, 2021, 10:40:51 PM

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Why is it so seemingly difficult for producers to drop Ripley’s character? (Read 6,248 times)

Nightmare Asylum

Quote from: Kradan on Aug 19, 2021, 01:59:44 PM
Each instalment was a one-off and represented unique style and vision of its director

And that right there is the core appeal to me of Alien as an ongoing franchise.

Kradan


Darwinsgirl


In some ways I'm surprised there is a mystery on why the franchise finds it hard to drop Ripley? Its the same reason Harrison Ford is still playing Indiana Jones. They are iconic characters in their franchise. Harrison Ford has way more years than Sigourney. And considering I have heroine's in real life such a Jane Goodall age is not an issue for me.

I don't expect Sigourney to be physically "fighting" ALIENS in future films. But I can see her in an advisory role or planning strategy's. She has always been a voice of reason when it concerns ALIENS. I don't think that will ever change.

That is not to say I don't welcome other characters to take over new and major roles. I hope it is so. I'm just not writing off Ripley. ;)

[cancerblack]

Quote from: Highland on Aug 19, 2021, 12:56:29 PM
You wouldn't find a single Alien Fan knocking back another Ripley movie. I think Alien 3 is still as good if she lives. 

Wrong.

Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Aug 19, 2021, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 19, 2021, 01:59:44 PM
Each instalment was a one-off and represented unique style and vision of its director

And that right there is the core appeal to me of Alien as an ongoing franchise.

Not wrong.

nanison

This is what makes the alien trilogy different and refreshing, the downbeat ending took everyone by surprise, the constant soul destroying losses Ripley undergoes. We see Ripley grow as a leader then find happiness and purpose again only to see everything go to shit in the last part. I love it when films don't have the obligatory happy ending. alien 3 is not a perfect film mainly due to a bad and confusing finale and horrible special effects but Weaver absolutely kills it and the film overall is very refreshing and atmospheric.

I agree that each film is different in style, none of the sequels feel rehashed. Brilliant trilogy!

judge death

Like others said: Ripley didnt lose, she sacrificed herself to make sure the xenomorphs would die out and weyland yutani to never get their hands on them and in making so saving earth. The xenos lost as the runner failed in its mission and the queen died and last chance for them to breed.
All that ripley lost and went through and knowing getting out of there alive is just meters away and chosed to sacrifice herself for those who died earlier and saving humanity, its a great ending to her arch.

I love alien3 due to this and they didnt go the safe route like star wars or other big franchises where you know the hero will win and nothing bad can ever happen to him/her, alien3 and the franchise itself shows how gritty and dark nature and space is and no one is safe and will have to do hard choices to remain alive. Alien3 made the xenos a big threat again and not a family safe movie like aliens movie did in a way. Like the youtubers: off the shelves said in their review: alien movies are gritty and brutal and cold and nothing is guaranteed, humans are meat for the xenos and people will die, xenos are the perfect organism and having ripley survive them again and hicks and newt too, would make them less dangerous and the audience would never fear for the heroes, here the movie has the balls to kill them.

Alien3 was a good ending of the trilogy and ripley.
In my opinion having her survive and get even more movies with her running around, killing xenos like nothing would just harm the main star: the xenos.
Jaws took that route and its silly when the sharks is hunting the family and kids of the star of the first movie, traveling halfway around the sea to get after that old lady.... same for seeing ripley face the xenos againa nd again, what are the odds for that to happen?


No I dont want to see more ripley vs aliens again, its like eating same food: first time its nice but after 4-5 time you get sick of eating the same.
Give me new charachters and setting, maybe have a small cameo at best but else I prefer there to be no ripley. The xeno is the star and only thing we need for a good movie.

Highland

Highland

#36
Quote from: TC on Aug 19, 2021, 01:39:20 PM
Quote from: Highland on Aug 19, 2021, 12:56:29 PM

...

If I was asked to reboot the original films (conveniently ignoring  Resurrection), my way of making Alien 3 an "installment in a bigger picture" would be to make it the 2nd film, then cap the trilogy off with Aliens.

George Lucas had the right idea with the OT Star Wars films: Act 1 A New Hope, Act 2 Empire, Act 3 Return of the Jedi. The 2nd act is always the darkest one.

TC

This is exactly what I was about to write. Aliens is the last film. That's when she wipes out the Planet, Queen and all and essentially gets a new family. That's a win.

Also the "other Ripley" part was more about in the past , not now. She wouldn't fit into a movie now.

Alien3 was a last ditch job with an average script saved only by the people involved, the soundtrack and made multiple times better by the passing of time.

Immortan Jonesy

Immortan Jonesy

#37
Quote from: Highland on Aug 20, 2021, 12:13:37 AM
Quote from: TC on Aug 19, 2021, 01:39:20 PM
Quote from: Highland on Aug 19, 2021, 12:56:29 PM

...

If I was asked to reboot the original films (conveniently ignoring  Resurrection), my way of making Alien 3 an "installment in a bigger picture" would be to make it the 2nd film, then cap the trilogy off with Aliens.

George Lucas had the right idea with the OT Star Wars films: Act 1 A New Hope, Act 2 Empire, Act 3 Return of the Jedi. The 2nd act is always the darkest one.

TC

This is exactly what I was about to write. Aliens is the last film. That's when she wipes out the Planet, Queen and all and essentially gets a new family. That's a win.

Also the "other Ripley" part was more about in the past , not now. She wouldn't fit into a movie now.

Alien3 was a last ditch job with an average script saved only by the people involved, the soundtrack and made multiple times better by the passing of time.

Well, there is a movie that is no longer "Ripley vs. Alien" with the bad guy winning at the end. It's like Revenge of the Sith from Alien.  ;D



Now Going back to the original series, it could be said that we have the optimistic happy ending and the depressive happy ending with ALIENS and ALIEN³ respectively. In Cameron's movie, Ripley destroyed the Aliens and won a family. It will sound controversial, I know, but maybe that should have been the end of Ripley. Then they could have explored other things, like the Space Jockey, maybe another Derelict, and a story with new characters.

But yes, probably back then, for FOX an Alien movie without Ripley would be like Return of the Jedi without Luke or something. And so came the Fincher movie, with all the problems of its development as the true closing of Ripley's arc, a darker and more depressing one as you have already pointed out.

Maybe Ridley Scott was unsuccessful, but he was the only one who tried to do something different. Although I wonder if Shaw and Daniels were attempts to create a new Ripely, but for better or worse the prequels ended up being the arc of a villain rather than a hero. It's like having Ash as the lead in the original movies :laugh: and that's without mentioning the controversial direction that the director took with the concepts that years ago seemed more striking; the Space Jockeys and the supposed origin of the Alien.

I still think you can have a good Alien movie if you go back to basics, without Ripley of course. New characters, Giger's Alien (seriously, we've already seen so many variants and abominations, that I think it's time to go back to the beautiful original design  ::)), the tension and the grity setting of the two first flicks. Not LV-426 offcourse, but something that trully looks otherworldly, weird, ghostly, or uncanny.

Highland

Highland

#38
David is outstanding in the new ones. It's the other characters that let those movies down. When the Audience knows whats about to happen the characters should too.

I love the way James Cameron structures his films in the opposite way. Like imagine the power loader scene at the end of Aliens out of the blue, ridiculous, but because he set up the loading bay scene earlier in the movie it flows beautiful. I love that type of writing that sets up scenes later without you knowing.

Some Old Dude

I genuinely think it's Alien 3 resentment syndrome. Bringing her back means Aliens' "happy" ending is intact again. People just need to move on.

[cancerblack]

People have been born, grown up, and had families of their own in the length of time some people have been salty about that ending getting subverted.

Highland

True, but most people (fans and critics) thought Alien 3 was garbage on release and here we are.


Rankles75

Tbf, people are never going to "move on" when they think a film has ruined (or at least tarnished) their favourite franchise. And, regardless of your own personal opinions of Alien 3, I don't think there's much doubt that the series has never recovered from the hammering that movie took upon release.

Going back to the initial topic, following on from Aliens was always going to be a tough proposition, no matter what they did. But if they were ever going to move on from Ripley, that third film would have been the time to do it imo. Her story had been resolved, and although she was obviously the star of the first two films, I don't think any fans of the series would have walked away from it just because she wasn't there. Obviously that didn't happen, and I can understand why fans want the series to go back to Ripley (the real one, not Resurrection's hybrid nonsense) after the two poorly received entries that have followed Aliens.

In saying that, after initially being a big fan of Neill Blomkamp's proposed film, I would in hindsight only want to see an alternative Alien 3 in either animated or graphic novel form. Too much time has passed for Sigourney Weaver and Michael Biehn to be dragged out to fight more xenos, and I don't think there's a satisfactory way to explain the age difference.

Highland

"what if" Alien 3!

I'm pumped they went for the TV show. We've seen how good the short films can be. Imagine an 8 part series.

[cancerblack]

Quote from: Rankles75 on Aug 21, 2021, 01:08:50 PM
Tbf, people are never going to "move on" when they think a film has ruined (or at least tarnished) their favourite franchise. And, regardless of your own personal opinions of Alien 3, I don't think there's much doubt that the series has never recovered from the hammering that movie took upon release.

That's an unfortunate dependence on media for them then. Even though I enjoy Rez and Covvie well enough and kinda love Prometheus, I think it would have been better over all if 3 really had killed the franchise dead.

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