Why is it so seemingly difficult for producers to drop Ripley’s character?

Started by nanison, Aug 02, 2021, 10:40:51 PM

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Why is it so seemingly difficult for producers to drop Ripley’s character? (Read 6,378 times)

BigDaddyJohn


Kradan

Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Aug 08, 2021, 12:00:07 PM
Money, money, money money

MONEY!!!

Always sunny

In a rich men's world

AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !

Immortan Jonesy

Quote from: TC on Aug 05, 2021, 05:53:37 PM
Quite apart from Noah Hawley's project, I could see a "remix" of the entire feature film series (and even incorporating EU material like Seegson, the Cold Forge, etc) rewritten as a streaming show, pulling Shaw and David, Ripley, the Nostromo, Hadley's Hope and Newt, Fiorina, and the Auriga all into a single, contiguous, saga, not being spread out over a hundred year long narrative the way they currently are. The kernel of the plots would remain, but the characters and details of the storylines would be reimagined, much like Marvel's "Civil War" comic book was reimagined for the Avengers MCU.

TC

Hmm. I like the way that sounds.  8)

Quote from: TC on Aug 05, 2021, 05:53:37 PM
But that's rather old fashioned thinking. These days we have home video and streaming with which audiences continue to revisit original films at will. And philosophically, the current storytelling landscape is showing us over and over again that "alternate universe" stories are valid forms of franchise-making, especially when jumping to a different medium.

TC

I also really like this. Alternative universes, the "What if" or even the stories that didn't' make the cut like Dan O'Bannon's original Alien or William Gibson's Alien 3. There is already a recent media about that, but I wonder what a live action would be like. 🤔

irn

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Aug 08, 2021, 08:43:04 AM
I like A:R as a stand-alone spoof of an Alien film, but it really doesn't fit in or make sense with the rest of the movies.

I feel the same way about it. Like if you watch it immediately before or after the original Alien it is just so far away in tone that it's like they're not even in the same series. I've never considered it canon, but more like a comic book live action adaption for a bit of fun.

Kradan


Highland

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Aug 05, 2021, 08:35:31 PM
ALIEN 3 was the perfect ending of the original Alien saga. They should've just continued with new characters from there on. We would've probably had Alien 5, 6 & 7 by now if it wasn't for A:R. I don't know if that's actually a good or bad thing, but from a sequel perspective A:R made it extremely hard to make a sequel or a prequel to A:R (as in set not that far after A3).

As much as Alien 3 is a good film, I would argue it's not a "perfect ending" since the Alien wins and the hero dies.

I was thinking about that last night watching Aliens again and funnily enough it was the Cat that made me think that lol

Kradan

How does Alien win though ? Alien's goal is to spread and to procreate - it does not achieve that. Ripley's goal is to not let Alien spread and procreate - she achieves that even if by sacrificing her own life

SiL

Yeah, the Aliens very much lose. Ripley kills the "last" one, thwarting both them and the Company. Humanity survives.

TC

I think it's supposed to have one of those "mixed fortune" endings; both positive and sad at the same time. Alien 3 has the kind of story that you would normally think this should work well.

The trouble is Ripley spends the whole movie feeling depressed and in despair, which makes her end feel less like a heroic sacrifice than an act of suicide. It's kind of hard to cheer for a suicidal person's success at killing themself.

TC

Highland

She wins until Alien 4 then *insert other Alien stuff.

The Alien took her friends, her family, her new friends, her new family, then her life.

I'd say that's a definite loss. It would have been a brilliant installment in a bigger picture, but as the end? It's a no from me.

You wouldn't find a single Alien Fan knocking back another Ripley movie. I think Alien 3 is still as good if she lives. 

Nightmare Asylum

I'm an Alien fan knocking back another Ripley movie.

Alien 3 ended her story in an incredibly satisfactory way for me, and Resurrection is fun for what it is, but what it is is an eccentric, oddball one-off within the franchise. I dig it on its own merits but it isn't something that I want to dictate the core future direction of the franchise.

TC

Quote from: Highland on Aug 19, 2021, 12:56:29 PM
...
It would have been a brilliant installment in a bigger picture, but as the end? It's a no from me.
...

If I was asked to reboot the original films (conveniently ignoring  Resurrection), my way of making Alien 3 an "installment in a bigger picture" would be to make it the 2nd film, then cap the trilogy off with Aliens.

George Lucas had the right idea with the OT Star Wars films: Act 1 A New Hope, Act 2 Empire, Act 3 Return of the Jedi. The 2nd act is always the darkest one.

TC

Kradan

Kradan

#27
You've just voiced something I've only recentky started to think about: the first 3 Alien movies don't exactly follow traditional movie trilogy formula in a way that second and third installments are kinda inverted so middle chapter is the most optimistic and up-bit one while the final is dark and depressing.  You've mentioned Star Wars OT. I would add to that Dark Knight and Kung Fu Panda trilogies. 

The thing with first 3 Alien movies is that they were  never intended as one cohesive story. Each instalment was a one-off and represented unique style and vision of its director


Quote from: Highland on Aug 19, 2021, 12:56:29 PM
The Alien took her friends, her family, her new friends, her new family, then her life.

I'd say that's a definite loss. It would have been a brilliant installment in a bigger picture, but as the end? It's a no from me.

OK, on her personal level Ripley definetly lost a lot. But what you've listed didn't just happened in Alien 3 - it happened through the course of 3 movies. Ripley loses something in each one: she lost her friends in Alien (I think its safe to assume Nostromo's crew were her friends),  in Aliens she lost her family, specifically her daughter plus she lost her job, was proclaimed insane,  became an outcast in a world where nobody recogmises her anymore.

You can argue she lost the most in Alien 3 in a form of Newt, Hicks, Bishop and finally her own life. But as SiL and I pointed out on a bigger level  she had the last laugh and essentially said "f**k you" to Alien and Company while saving the universe and humanity from Alien's plague. Her jumping in a vat of molten lead is not a suicide - it's clear act of defiance

The Necronoir

The Necronoir

#28
Quote from: TC on Aug 19, 2021, 12:13:42 PM
I think it's supposed to have one of those "mixed fortune" endings; both positive and sad at the same time. Alien 3 has the kind of story that you would normally think this should work well.

The trouble is Ripley spends the whole movie feeling depressed and in despair, which makes her end feel less like a heroic sacrifice than an act of suicide. It's kind of hard to cheer for a suicidal person's success at killing themself.

TC

Interesting to hear someone interpret it that way, which is not at all how I've ever taken it. To me Ripley is the only constant optimist in the film, not in the sense that she's all sunshine and roses but that she refuses to just lay down and die despite knowing that a fairy tale ending is a forlorn hope.

Far from suicidal, she had the strongest tenacity for survival of anyone on FIORINA, and ultimately doesn't kill herself so much as ensure that the alien dies while also giving a massive middle finger to the company. It's a sacrifice, not a suicide, and making the best out of a hopeless situation.

Kradan


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