Ridley Scott Talks Prometheus, Giger, Beginning of Man and Original Alien

Started by Darkoo, Dec 17, 2011, 02:26:48 PM

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Ridley Scott Talks Prometheus, Giger, Beginning of Man and Original Alien (Read 104,605 times)

Deuterium

Deuterium

#240
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 06:14:34 PM
The wiki report is quite frankly....wrong, as is so much on the internet. I'm reading A L I E N vault and it also backs up the claim that John Hurt was a last minute addition to the film.

That is correct.

Taken from the following Alien blog:
http://alienseries.blogspot.com/2011/03/principle-players-cast-character.html

Quote'I had cast Jon Finch, who was Polanski's Macbeth, as Kane. First day, first shot, Jon collapsed. I talked to him and he said, "I'm a diabetic..." He had gone yellow and couldn't get up - we had to lift him out of the scene. He was fine, but he had to recuperate. He hadn't taken his insulin and was drinking too much Coca-Cola. That night we looked at the book and came across John Hurt, who I have always liked. John lived in Hampstead, so we called and I drove up there. We sat down with a drink. I said, "Do you want to do this?" He said, "Yeah... I trust you, when do I start?" "Tomorrow morning, a car will come for you."'

-- Ridley Scott, Empire magazine, 2009




Valaquen

Valaquen

#241
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 06, 2012, 05:55:10 PM
"Hurt was Scott's first choice for the role"
-wikipedia.

and with that im done. i realized i shouldnt post anything at all without backing it up, but i feel like im wasting my time when even a quick wiki search to check your information would have yielded the same results.

if anyone wishes to contend with my ideas please post sources. thank you.
Wiki is wrong, sorry. Jon Finch was the first choice, and even filmed scenes. There are differing accounts of how long Finch spent on the film, but Hurt was a last moment addition. Sources have been cited by other posters, including one who posted an article from my own blog. Brian Johnson said that Finch first had troubles when the crew tried to make a cast of him: 'John Finch was the character that John Hurt took over. And John Finch went into the sculptor's place to have his life mask done, and he hadn't told anybody he was a diabetic, and we had to discover while he was inside his life mask. And he actually passed out. And they went, "okay John," and there was no response. And they got the ambulance out there and dragged him out. Because he hadn't declared that on his insurance, the company couldn't go on using him.'

Roger Christian [Alien set designer] says Finch shot for a few days:

'he was there for the first couple of days. He was really trying, and he looked great, actually, as the character. And then he got so ill he just couldn't carry on, and Hurt just took over and Ridley didn't have to re-shoot that much; just the parts with [Finch]'
http://www.shadowlocked.com/2010030984/interviews/roger-christian-interview-part-2.html#finchkane

Frankly, yes, it does feel like a waste of time when a quick search to check your information would reveal the same results.

ryanjayhawk

Quote from: Valaquen on Jan 06, 2012, 06:48:04 PM
Quote from: Weezus Christ on Jan 06, 2012, 05:55:10 PM
"Hurt was Scott's first choice for the role"
-wikipedia.

and with that im done. i realized i shouldnt post anything at all without backing it up, but i feel like im wasting my time when even a quick wiki search to check your information would have yielded the same results.

if anyone wishes to contend with my ideas please post sources. thank you.
Wiki is wrong, sorry. Jon Finch was the first choice, and even filmed scenes. There are differing accounts of how long Finch spent on the film, but Hurt was a last moment addition. Sources have been cited by other posters, including one who posted an article from my own blog. Brian Johnson said that Finch first had troubles when the crew tried to make a cast of him: 'John Finch was the character that John Hurt took over. And John Finch went into the sculptor's place to have his life mask done, and he hadn't told anybody he was a diabetic, and we had to discover while he was inside his life mask. And he actually passed out. And they went, "okay John," and there was no response. And they got the ambulance out there and dragged him out. Because he hadn't declared that on his insurance, the company couldn't go on using him.'

Roger Christian [Alien set designer] says Finch shot for a few days:

'he was there for the first couple of days. He was really trying, and he looked great, actually, as the character. And then he got so ill he just couldn't carry on, and Hurt just took over and Ridley didn't have to re-shoot that much; just the parts with [Finch]'
http://www.shadowlocked.com/2010030984/interviews/roger-christian-interview-part-2.html#finchkane

Frankly, yes, it does feel like a waste of time when a quick search to check your information would reveal the same results.

Weyland-Yutani was responsible for replacing Finch with Hurt a couple days before the Nostromo was set to leave for Earth ;-)

Glaive

Quote from: ryanjayhawk on Jan 06, 2012, 07:19:40 PM


Weyland-Yutani was responsible for replacing Finch with Hurt a couple days before the Nostromo was set to leave for Earth ;-)

...and what's the betting neither Lambert nor Ripley had sex with him?

ThisBethesdaSea

Let me start this by saying I have immense respect for James Cameron as a director of spectacle, and solid story telling. I love a lot of his films. As I continue to ponder Prometheus until I see it, I realize that we're going to get a film Cameron could probably never deliver. Ridley Scott has never shied away from anything, and the two science fiction films that he's given us easily dance between bleak hopelessness and hyper realism, something that Cameron has never been able to achieve. THIS ISN'T A DIG AT CAMERON....rather, what I'm saying is that I don't think there is anyone suited better to return to the alien universe then Scott, hands down. Quite frankly, I don't want James Cameron touching a Prometheus sequel, ever. It's not that I think he wouldn't Make a great film, but that he would again stray from harder more direct/real story telling, opting for a summer blockbuster instead of a horror infused intelligent science fiction head scratcher.


Ash 937

Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 11:27:20 PM
Let me start this by saying I have immense respect for James Cameron as a director of spectacle, and solid story telling. I love a lot of his films. As I continue to ponder Prometheus until I see it, I realize that we're going to get a film Cameron could probably never deliver. Ridley Scott has never shied away from anything, and the two science fiction films that he's given us easily dance between bleak hopelessness and hyper realism, something that Cameron has never been able to achieve. THIS ISN'T A DIG AT CAMERON....rather, what I'm saying is that I don't think there is anyone suited better to return to the alien universe then Scott, hands down. Quite frankly, I don't want James Cameron touching a Prometheus sequel, ever. It's not that I think he wouldn't Make a great film, but that he would again stray from harder more direct/real story telling, opting for a summer blockbuster instead of a horror infused intelligent science fiction head scratcher.

I completely understand what you are saying but I also think that it might be a little presumptuous too.  Cameron really did expand the universe more than any other writer/director that has done so far.  Whether or not that will change with Ridley's involvement in the prequel remains to be seen.  One could also argue that without Aliens, Alien would be a far less recognized film because both films compliment each other so well. 

To be honest, I really wouldn't be surprised if Cameron did tackle a sequel to Prometheus.  It was Cameron, afterall, who inspired Ridley to go back into Sci-Fi and shoot Prometheus in 3D...after Ridley saw what Cameron had done/was doing with Avatar.  It's odd but, in a way, one could argue that Prometheus already owes something of itself to James Cameron.

I think Cameron would be a good choice to make a sequel to Prometheus.


Xenomorphine

Yeah, Ridley might not have got back to him after agreeing to do an 'Alien 5' together, but they still, nevertheless, did agree to collaborate. I think the deal was meant to be Ridley producing and directing the first, then Cameron directing the next. They evidently saw eye to eye on a creative level during those private talks.

And don't forget, Cameron deliberately went and filmed the Jordans entering the derelict. If there had been the budget for it, I don't doubt he would have attempted to recreate the interior with just as much impressive attention to detail as he did for the shuttle (most people don't even realise Ripley's harpoon is by the door).

BioMechanical

I bet Cameron get's a shot a the sequel to Prometheus.

ThisBethesdaSea

I think my post was misunderstood in totality. It's not that I don't think Cameron could make a witty and thrilling sequel to Prometheus, it's that he would turn what might turn out to be complex and intelligent science fiction into a testosterone summer blockbuster negating the larger mythos. I base this off of ALIENS and how the mystery that Scott created, Cameron left behind, by nature of his instincts as a writer/director. Cameron doesn't have the grit of of Scott, they don't tell the same kind of stories. Scott directs with a bit of danger, Cameron is completely safe for the most part.

I don't want to see a safe Prometheus sequel.

Wobblyboddle77

Wobblyboddle77

#249
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 06, 2012, 11:27:20 PM
Let me start this by saying I have immense respect for James Cameron as a director of spectacle, and solid story telling. I love a lot of his films. As I continue to ponder Prometheus until I see it, I realize that we're going to get a film Cameron could probably never deliver. Ridley Scott has never shied away from anything, and the two science fiction films that he's given us easily dance between bleak hopelessness and hyper realism, something that Cameron has never been able to achieve. THIS ISN'T A DIG AT CAMERON....rather, what I'm saying is that I don't think there is anyone suited better to return to the alien universe then Scott, hands down. Quite frankly, I don't want James Cameron touching a Prometheus sequel, ever. It's not that I think he wouldn't Make a great film, but that he would again stray from harder more direct/real story telling, opting for a summer blockbuster instead of a horror infused intelligent science fiction head scratcher.

To me that is absolute nonsense, Camerons films such as Terminator 1 and 2 and Aliens are grounded in reality which explore science fiction. Aliens is perfectly respectable film, which Cameron took in the logical direction with a good story, and told it well. The guy respected Scotts original and built upon it, by giving the audience the ultimate sci fi horror MORE aliens and he notched the pace up a gear too. I mean LV426 was so barren the wind blowing, colonist vehicles scattered about, doors flapping in the wind.Once inside cameron uses the element of silence and abandonment to make the viewer feel very uneasy. Where are the colonists? where are the xenomorphs? how many are there? what actually happened? The military elements of it cameron got spot on, and bishops character was very well written because cameron takes advantage of what we saw androids are capable of in alien, and he also develops Ripleys uneasiness around bishop. Cameron never overexposes the xenomorphs, he keeps the scenes tightly shot and what he done with the face huggers was great giving us a claustrophobic feel. I would love to see Cameron direct a prometheus sequel, he would take it in a different direction and give us something that would scare the living daylights out've us but also make us think. which is what he done with aliens. What your chatting about Cameron is absolute nonsense, he helped define the horror sci fi genre of the 80's with his hard work, just as Scott did with alien in 1979, and i actually prefer alien over aliens but i still acknowledge caeron is amazing, what you're saying is absolutely 'pedestrian', end of. So acknowledge cameron for the genius he is, not derogatory nonsense.


Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 07, 2012, 04:55:56 AM
I think my post was misunderstood in totality. It's not that I don't think Cameron could make a witty and thrilling sequel to Prometheus, it's that he would turn what might turn out to be complex and intelligent science fiction into a testosterone summer blockbuster negating the larger mythos. I base this off of ALIENS and how the mystery that Scott created, Cameron left behind, by nature of his instincts as a writer/director. Cameron doesn't have the grit of of Scott, they don't tell the same kind of stories. Scott directs with a bit of danger, Cameron is completely safe for the most part.

I don't want to see a safe Prometheus sequel.

Cameron took a massive risk introducing the alien queen, so that's not safe it's very ballsy, i think you need to watch aliens again and the terminator films again and appreciate cameron for the great director he is.

ThisBethesdaSea

Again, I'm being completely misunderstood. I have  much respect for Cameron, absolutely, but he's not making the kind of films he used to...ALIENS was great, a fantastic film, but void of the mystery of ALIEN that Scott introduced. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, it's just a different....very different direction.

Scott directs with a bit more abandon, he isn't as safe as Cameron is these days. Again, Prometheus deserves a sequel that's just as dangerous as the film appears to hint at. But maybe that's all just complete nonsense :)

Xenomorphine

Xenomorphine

#251
Quote from: ThisBethesdaSea on Jan 07, 2012, 04:55:56 AM
I think my post was misunderstood in totality. It's not that I don't think Cameron could make a witty and thrilling sequel to Prometheus, it's that he would turn what might turn out to be complex and intelligent science fiction into a testosterone summer blockbuster negating the larger mythos. I base this off of ALIENS and how the mystery that Scott created, Cameron left behind, by nature of his instincts as a writer/director. Cameron doesn't have the grit of of Scott, they don't tell the same kind of stories. Scott directs with a bit of danger, Cameron is completely safe for the most part.

I don't want to see a safe Prometheus sequel.

And what do you call things like 'GI Jane', 'Black Hawk Down' and 'Gladiator'? :)

Oh, but Scott is just as capable of putting in blockbusters with a superficial vibe in parts as anyone else. Just because they're well-crafted, doesn't mean they're not deliberately aimed at the blockbuster market.

Personally, I felt things like 'Kingdom Of Heaven' and 'Robin Hood' felt dull and uninteresting. They didn't engage me in their characters and Ridley Scott going for Orlando Bloom, of all people, as someone who was meant to come across as a leader of men... Ugh. No. That struck me as insane.

No, I think they've both got things in common and have, in a sense, perhaps even both learnt from one another (and don't forget Cameron's private screening of 'Avatar' was what apparently convinced Scott to make 'Prometheus' in 3D - they're definitely friends and speak to one another).

Remember, the director, himself, has said that this film is aiming to deliberately be "epic". That doesn't infers a purposeful aim at the blockbuster market, not the artistic mystery demographic.

'Aliens' was never trying to be 'Alien', but that doesn't mean to say it wasn't extremely dark and, yes, mysterious in places. The scenes of wandering through the colony and finding nothing but gaping holes caused by acid and "no bodies" comes to mind - as does visiting the nursery chamber and, later, the Queen's reveal. Then, later, when the extra scenes were added, the discovery of the derelict. Cameron knew how to play on the fears and expectations of an audience which knew, in advance, what those clues meant, without diminishing their atmospheric value.

Valaquen

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jan 07, 2012, 06:09:47 AM
'Aliens' was never trying to be 'Alien', but that doesn't mean to say it wasn't extremely dark and, yes, mysterious in places. The scenes of wandering through the colony and finding nothing but gaping holes caused by acid and "no bodies" comes to mind - as does visiting the nursery chamber and, later, the Queen's reveal. Then, later, when the extra scenes were added, the discovery of the derelict. Cameron knew how to play on the fears and expectations of an audience which knew, in advance, what those clues meant, without diminishing their atmospheric value.
Aye!

I think Avatar's success and popularity has overshadowed Cameron's work on Terminator, Aliens, The Abyss, and T2, somehow. Those are very gritty films, possibly with the exception of T2, which has more polish but is no less dark and speculative [the first film was about pre-determination - but can you change your future? Should you try? Should you kill one man to save billions? Do we morally abide by deontology or consequentialism? what makes us human?] The first Terminator had all sorts of things that were hinted at or speculated which we didn't see; it had a mystery of its own, usually concerning the future war. The first half of The Abyss is quite creepy, especially the scene where they all enter the downed submarine and come across corpses and ... well, something else that is in there.

Avatar was easy, but Cameron's other sci-fi films are by no means purely summer blockbusters. They do have intellectual qualities to them, which Cameron was consistently praised for in the first half of his career. Films like Titanic and Avatar took that away from him; people were happier to roll their eyes. I'm not accusing ThisBethesdaSea of this, because I think he iterated his point very well, but a lot of Cameron criticism you see online amounts to ad hominems, and nothing else. He can be criticised but I think the ability to make an intelligent, dark sci-fi is not something he lacks.

[minor point: I thought it was interesting that Scott described Prometheus as an 'epic', that he namechecks Avatar as having raised the bar -these RS and JC guys are friends- and that there's a shot of Noomi in the teaser, pulling the throttle on a vehicle and reversing; a shot that is reminiscent of Ripley in Aliens driving the APC into the Hive.]

ThisBethesdaSea

Thanks Valaquen, you got it. I would totally agree that Cameron's earlier forays into science fiction were grittier and a bit dangerous, to be sure. ALIENS holds a lot of mystery to it (I've never debated the mystery).

Wobblyboddle77

I think underlying problem is with Fox, as theyre the guys who finance these film, they wanted avatar to be pg13, prometheus, every subsequent big blockbuster fox want to play safe, so it's not really the fault of the directors, they have to 'appease' to the execs to get their budgets for these films, so we all make valid points, but a director can only do what his budget allows. I found the abyss an amazing film especially the directors cut, i'm unsure if it's on blu ray in the U.S. but i can't find it here in the U.K.

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