Do you think they'll come back from Predators? I'd like to see Stan Winston Studios or the guy who done Underworld give the Preds a go.
I hope ADI don't return for this. Their Alien and Predator redesigns are pathetic (being polite there) That's the only issue with ADI i have and i now that if they continue to use ADI in future Alien and Predator movies they will just continue to ruin the creature designs.
The Wolf had a great desgin other then the face. I hope they don't comeback but I doubt it.
Im hoping they get Stan Winston Studios to get involved again **Fingers Crossed** my brother thinks they should use KNB Efx Group Inc aka Greg Nicoteros company.
I'm sure ADI will return. Fox is too cheap to hire better talent, i.e. Stan Winston Studios.
if they trully mean business this time, it has got to be stan winston. Other wise you know their taking shortcuts.
Ya...which means more wide-mouthed Predators, and given that we're talking multiple Predators, we'll likely get the fat bastards from AvP again.
No! Stan Winston studios all the way please!
Most likely KNB FX, then ADI, then legacy FX... I hope either the first or the latter. While Wolf was alright, it still wasn't on par with the classics.
Spectral Motion, who designed the monsters for Hellboy 1 & 2, X-Men 3 and the Fantastic Four movies are my first choice to design the Predator effects.
Quote from: Draven on Apr 26, 2009, 01:31:33 PM
Spectral Motion, who designed the monsters for Hellboy 1 & 2, X-Men 3 and the Fantastic Four movies are my first choice to design the Predator effects.
Sorry bud no offence but i hope not.
Bah...let's face it. Those times are over. Today suits and animatronics always look cheap and silly no matter who does it. What we need is the latest CG motion capture technology.
Quote from: Scree on Apr 26, 2009, 01:57:46 PM
Bah...let's face it. Those times are over. Today suits and animatronics always look cheap and silly no matter who does it. What we need is the latest CG motion capture technology.
f**k no.
If animatronic effects could look good in the 80s they sure as hell can today with the prosthetics and materials getting better and better.
The only reason they weren't as good in the AvP movies is because of ADI and poor design choices.
f**k CG, you cant beat the real thing, only use it when it is the best choice for the scene and it cant be done practical.
Quotef**k no.
If animatronic effects could look good in the 80s they sure as hell can today with the prosthetics and materials getting better and better.
The only reason they weren't as good in the AvP movies is because of ADI and poor design choices.
f**k CG, you cant beat the real thing, only use it when it is the best choice for the scene and it cant be done practical.
Well said bud.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Apr 26, 2009, 02:04:45 PM
f**k no.
If animatronic effects could look good in the 80s they sure as hell can today with the prosthetics and materials getting better and better.
The only reason they weren't as good in the AvP movies is because of ADI and poor design choices.
f**k CG, you cant beat the real thing, only use it when it is the best choice for the scene and it cant be done practical.
Ditto. Stan Winston is ideal, but I'm not gonna be upset if they choose ADI. I'll just see what appears, though I do think for a Predator film they should go back to the original creative studio.
The face design in AvP:R was only slightly better than AvP's because while both heads were animatronics, Wolf's head looked more real to me. AvP's looked 110% fake.
Honestly, I would love to see KNB effects give it a shot. They have worked with Rodriguez before on Grindhouse, so it isnt like this is a complete shot in the dark. Heres a list of all the things they have done. http://www.knbefxgroup.com/FilmBio.html
I think it will probably be KNB Effects, if Rogriguez is involved. I think he's worked with them on all of his films.
Im sold on KNB effects. ;D
Quote from: severen76 on Apr 26, 2009, 04:20:51 PM
I think it will probably be KNB Effects, if Rogriguez is involved. I think he's worked with them on all of his films.
I think that's why brother thinks they would be suitable. They have a nice little filmography.
QuoteIm sold on KNB effects
Compare KNB's to ADI's
KNB
http://uk.imdb.com/company/co0015640/
ADI
http://uk.imdb.com/company/co0021289/
Even though KNB has been running longer compare movies they've worked on since 1990
Their demo reel is quite impressive.
Quote from: Lt. Mike Harrigan on Apr 26, 2009, 04:38:32 PM
There demo reel is quite impressive.
Im just watching that now... :D
EDIT: Did you notice the Aliens head in that demo reel?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg527.imageshack.us%2Fimg527%2F7153%2Falienhead.jpg&hash=459a6718eedfceb56847a028ed6b7d9fb8caf1b7)
I don't like the lower jaw on the Alien there. doesn't look right. everything else is ok though.
ADI sucks. I don't know why the hell god (or who ever or what ever you worship) allowed ADI to be created.
honestly, I don't want a predator reboot. besides. why does everybody think the film will bring back the original Predator creature design? what makes you all think they won't redesign the predator? like almost all reboots everything is redesigned.
Yeah, that head looks a little off, but Im guessing it was something just made for fun. I never heard of them auditioning for the AvP films, and they never officially collaborated with ADI on them. Given the incentive, they could pull it off easily.
Quote from: xeno_alpha_07 on Apr 26, 2009, 04:56:02 PM
Im just watching that now... :D
EDIT: Did you notice the Aliens head in that demo reel?
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg527.imageshack.us%2Fimg527%2F7153%2Falienhead.jpg&hash=459a6718eedfceb56847a028ed6b7d9fb8caf1b7)
Well, it looks more like the Cameron Aliens then the ones we got from ADI, and they actually got the same mold and still didn't got it right.
Quotewhy does everybody think the film will bring back the original Predator creature design?
Maybe because the design is perfect and doesn't require any major changes?
Of course they could redesign it, but it would be even more unnecessary then the concept of a remake.
Quote from: Undeadite on Apr 26, 2009, 06:25:06 PM
Yeah, that head looks a little off, but Im guessing it was something just made for fun. I never heard of them auditioning for the AvP films, and they never officially collaborated with ADI on them. Given the incentive, they could pull it off easily.
Turns out Greg Nicotero is an 'Aliens' Fan (and Jaws), he even has his own Pulse Rifle.
QuoteWell, it looks more like the Cameron Aliens then the ones we got from ADI, and they actually got the same mold and still didn't got it right.
True indeed. But if i had the choise id choose that design over ADI's anyday.
you never know. FOX is known for screwing things up so bad. even reboots are bad. Idk I just can't trust fox.
Quote from: xeno_alpha_07 on Apr 26, 2009, 01:39:27 PM
Sorry bud no offence but i hope not.
Have you seen the creatures in Hellboy 2? Easily the best practical monster effects I've seen in years.
I think most of HB2's practical effects were done by FB-FX. I dont know who did the digital renderings, and I have yet to see a complete list of all the companies that attributed to the Troll Market.
I'll try and have an answer for you guys tomorrow on whether it's ADI, KNB, or a colloboration. I've just collected both their business numbers. Neither are open over the weekend so probably tomorrow morning.
I hope you get some info. -crosses fingers-
I am also going to add Stan Winston Studios to that call-list. Or should I say Legacy Effects...
Did they change the company name?
Yes.
Cool name if you ask me.
Quote from: War Wager on Apr 26, 2009, 10:45:20 PM
Cool name if you ask me.
I see it has a tribute to Stan Winston. He left a "Legacy".
Quote from: TITANOSAUR on Apr 26, 2009, 06:06:27 PM
what makes you all think they won't redesign the predator? like almost all reboots everything is redesigned.
They already did. Little movies called AvP and AvP:R.
I'd like for Stan Winston studios to be involved and that's being ideal, but ....
I thought Wolf looked excellent in AVPR so if they can do similar work here, awesome ... just as long as they don't look like the first AVP Preds. ADI CAN do good work and if they can make Predators that look like Wolf, I'm all for it.
What if Industrial Light and Magic can get involved? :) I have their number as well.
Quote from: TITANOSAUR on Apr 26, 2009, 06:06:27 PM
what makes you all think they won't redesign the predator? like almost all reboots everything is redesigned.
They already did in '
Predator 2'. The head is
completely different (although my own personal favourite). The last two films they featured in also had very different looks, although not quite as much of a departure.
Quote from: Pvt. Hicks on Apr 26, 2009, 09:41:03 PM
I'll try and have an answer for you guys tomorrow on whether it's ADI, KNB, or a colloboration. I've just collected both their business numbers. Neither are open over the weekend so probably tomorrow morning.
You realise
no decision will have yet been taken on the special effects team, right? :)
Remember, they haven't even got a writer or director yet.
But Rodriguez or Fox could have mentioned it to any one of those companies.
Quote from: Undeadite on Apr 27, 2009, 01:57:52 AM
But Rodriguez or Fox could have mentioned it to any one of those companies.
I'm sure they've put feelers out to a
lot of people. It's a world away from making a final decision, though. :)
The most likely answer is that they'll put out a request to several different companies, have them send in some demonstrations and cost estimates and then decide, based on that. Anything before this is unlikely to mean anything.
Fine, piss in our frosted flakes, see if we care! ;)
Quote from: Undeadite on Apr 27, 2009, 02:15:50 AM
Fine, piss in our frosted flakes, see if we care! ;)
Why not wheatabix? ;)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 27, 2009, 02:00:04 AM
I'm sure they've put feelers out to a lot of people. It's a world away from making a final decision, though. :)
The most likely answer is that they'll put out a request to several different companies, have them send in some demonstrations and cost estimates and then decide, based on that. Anything before this is unlikely to mean anything.
^^^^ Xenos got a point there. Its been known for studios to say who they would like to use for specail effects, directors, writers etc etc but then end up changing there minds at the last mintute or someone pulls out.
Stay.
The fuc|<.
Away.
Will try and call later, nothing too interesting:
KNB: Was only able to get Greg Nicotero's assistant, he was in a meeting. It's safe to assume he's probably heard about it.
ADI: Tom was out, Alec was in a meeting. Though is it a good thing that "We haven't heard anything about it."? ;)
Quote from: Pvt. Hicks on Apr 27, 2009, 05:09:41 PM
Will try and call later, nothing too interesting:
KNB: Was only able to get Greg Nicotero's assistant, he was in a meeting. It's safe to assume he's probably heard about it.
ADI: Tom was out, Alec was in a meeting. Though is it a good thing that "We haven't heard anything about it."? ;)
Please let this be true -crosses fingers-!!!
I love ADI's work but I think the Aliens were their strong suit. No matter how well they did with the Predator in AVP:R, it wasn't nearly as good as their aliens.
Predator was Stan's baby first and foremost. But with Stan Winston dead and gone, no longer able to shepherd any new creations, I have concerns about what his re-named "Legacy Studios" can do. Apparently Terminator Salvation is the last project they worked on that he had his mitts on, so we'll see what comes in the aftermath of Stan's involvement...
Quote from: Bishop2 on Apr 27, 2009, 06:24:09 PM
I love ADI's work but I think the Aliens were their strong suit. No matter how well they did with the Predator in AVP:R, it wasn't nearly as good as their aliens.
Only for one movie. Everything after A3 just sucked to me. The Resurrection and AvP drones were too fleshy and skinny for my liking, and the AvP:R Warriors had bad heads.
Quote from: DoomRulz on Apr 27, 2009, 08:17:57 PM
Only for one movie. Everything after A3 just sucked to me. The Resurrection and AvP drones were too fleshy and skinny for my liking, and the AvP:R Warriors had bad heads.
The aliens in AVP are my favorite aliens to date, so we will agree to disagree on this matter. I love the fact that their aliens look more believably alive and more "alien" than the older ones, and I adore how Woodruff moves inside the suit.
Well granted they moved a lot better due to the use of CGI, but I found that with that improved movement, the way the Aliens were filmed lost their mysterious appearance. What I mean is, all the atmosphere, shadows, mist, etc... that accompanied showing an Alien in Aliens or Alien was gone once CGI became more regular.
Quote from: Bishop2 on Apr 27, 2009, 06:24:09 PM
I love ADI's work but I think the Aliens were their strong suit. No matter how well they did with the Predator in AVP:R, it wasn't nearly as good as their aliens.
Predator was Stan's baby first and foremost. But with Stan Winston dead and gone, no longer able to shepherd any new creations, I have concerns about what his re-named "Legacy Studios" can do. Apparently Terminator Salvation is the last project they worked on that he had his mitts on, so we'll see what comes in the aftermath of Stan's involvement...
It's not like he was going to anyway. He was disheartened they didn't include him in AvP.
Quote from: Pvt. Hicks on Apr 27, 2009, 10:01:06 PM
It's not like he was going to anyway. He was disheartened they didn't include him in AvP.
So your theory is that he wouldn't work on Predator 3 just because he was disheartened that he wasn't a part of AVP?
Of course he'd take the job if they offered the money and the ability to take control of the creature he created again.
Quote from: Bishop2 on Apr 27, 2009, 10:05:15 PM
So your theory is that he wouldn't work on Predator 3 just because he was disheartened that he wasn't a part of AVP?
Of course he'd take the job if they offered the money and the ability to take control of the creature he created again.
I'm not saying he wouldn't jump at the chance, I'm saying Fox wouldn't offer it to him in the first place.........
Quote from: Bishop2 on Apr 27, 2009, 08:37:49 PM
and more "alien" than the older ones,
...
There is no facepalm grand enough. No head-against-wall violent enough.
Just
wow, dude.
The thing with the Alien suits is that AR's design reflect the story. AvPs was down to cost and retconed after the fact. AvPRs was once again ease and cost with an attempt at a new head.
They're learning with Predator and they're getting there. Like others thing, Wolf (with the helmet on) was badass and fantastic. If they can fix the face...I don't have a problem with them being involved in this.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 27, 2009, 10:33:47 PM
...
There is no facepalm grand enough. No head-against-wall violent enough.
Just wow, dude.
You can have your own opinion and I can have mine. And we can even doing it without being dismissive and insulting about other opinions, too.
True! But your opinion that the AvP Aliens look more alien is unfounded. I know it's opinion, but opinion's can be wrong. It can be someone's opinion that the holocaust didn't happen - Doesn't make it so.
Not that this is the thread for that conversation.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 28, 2009, 01:23:45 AM
True! But your opinion that the AvP Aliens look more alien is unfounded. I know it's opinion, but opinion's can be wrong. It can be someone's opinion that the holocaust didn't happen - Doesn't make it so.
Well it's basically just the Alien Resurrection aliens painted black, so if that's what you're talking about, I realize that. And I prefer the black color, which is why I cite AVP's creatures over AR. AR's brown shades made sense because that movie was so damn brown, just like Alien 3, but black is the classic Alien color for me at least.
But it's my opinion that the skinnier torso of the AVP/AR alien looks more inhuman, as does the reflexive leg joints. I think it makes the creature feel less like a typical humanoid "man-in-suit" type of creation, and more "alien" as a result. Now, I think that's pretty easy to understand, and not inherently wrong, myself, but then again I'm the one having the opinion. So anyway.
I prefer AvP's Aliens over AR as well.
I'm talking AvP vs. Alien/Aliens. The AR-AvPR chests are more human, despite them trying to raise the sternum to make the rest of the design look skinner, by having floating ribs attaching to the sternum, as opposed to Alien/Aliens, where all the ribs joined directly to it, with tubes visible directly behind them. The dog-legs do look less human, but that hardly makes up for all the translucency, tubing, condom lips and wires of the original design.
...so how 'bout them ADI Preds?
The ADI ribs were always a major weakness in the design.
As far as ADI Predators, Wolf looked like he was pretty spot-on but honestly, it's hard to tell. The film is so dark you can't really see jack shit enough to tell how good or bad the work is. As far as the first AVP, the articulation and skin folding was all great (well mostly, but I seem to recall there was an issue with how the mouth-flaps opened up being off), but the skin on Scar looked too rubbery to me - like it needed a bit of a glistening sheen, and was too dry.
Maybe it was because of the cold. :P
Quote from: Bishop2 on Apr 28, 2009, 02:22:42 AM
As far as ADI Predators, Wolf looked like he was pretty spot-on but honestly, it's hard to tell. The film is so dark you can't really see jack shit enough to tell how good or bad the work is. As far as the first AVP, the articulation and skin folding was all great (well mostly, but I seem to recall there was an issue with how the mouth-flaps opened up being off), but the skin on Scar looked too rubbery to me - like it needed a bit of a glistening sheen, and was too dry.
Wolf's body design was far superior to the chunky football players in AvP, but he was a bit too skinny all the same. I think Anytime's design was perfect. Now while Wolf had the superior body design, ADI still f**ked the head up. The mandibles were too big, there were too many of them, and the mouth was too big again.
I wonder how we realize their mistakes, but they don't. And they just keep f**king up...and f**king up...and f**king up.
I don't want to sound as though I'm excusing their designs, but in most cases, they are doing what the director(s) tells them to do.
I feel like we're nitpicking pretty bad if we're calling out the mandibles for being a little too large. Maybe it's just me, but it feels... too x-treme fanboyish to take it that far and say "they f**ked it up" over such an insignificant detais. Then again, I guess maybe we should just own what we are: We ARE posting on an Alien/Predator forum, after all, so f**k it, we're fanboys... ;D
As for the "chunky football players," I suppose this doesn't have to be said but heck, I'll say it anyway: That was because of the armor layered on them and not the body design beneath.
Personally, I suspect the fanbase will never be pleased until Kevin Peter Hall is brought back from the dead and put back into a Predator suit in order to properly fill it out.
Quote from: Bishop2 on Apr 28, 2009, 05:53:29 AM
I feel like we're nitpicking pretty bad if we're calling out the mandibles for being a little too large. Maybe it's just me, but it feels... too x-treme fanboyish to take it that far and say "they f**ked it up" over such an insignificant detais. Then again, I guess maybe we should just own what we are: We ARE posting on an Alien/Predator forum, after all, so f**k it, we're fanboys... ;D
It's not just that they're too big. It's "they are so f**king big, how the hell did Wolf get his mask on" big. And again, why did Wolf have the extra tusks? They just looked retarded.
Quote from: Bishop2 on Apr 28, 2009, 05:53:29 AMAs for the "chunky football players," I suppose this doesn't have to be said but heck, I'll say it anyway: That was because of the armor layered on them and not the body design beneath.
It was the armour and the body design underneath. Even after removing the decaying breast plate, Celtic was still a fatass.
Quote from: Bishop2 on Apr 28, 2009, 05:53:29 AMPersonally, I suspect the fanbase will never be pleased until Kevin Peter Hall is brought back from the dead and put back into a Predator suit in order to properly fill it out.
It's got nothing to do with KPH coming back from the dead. Ian Whyte is getting better, and he was way better in AvP:R. ADI just needs to get their shit together.
I would love for them to hire ILM but it's probably way out of their budget. ADI's alright too given the right direction, sans decent looking mandibles.
I'd be fine with the Brothers handling the special effects. That's something they excel at.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 27, 2009, 11:01:39 PM
The thing with the Alien suits is that AR's design reflect the story. AvPs was down to cost and retconed after the fact. AvPRs was once again ease and cost with an attempt at a new head.
They're learning with Predator and they're getting there. Like others thing, Wolf (with the helmet on) was badass and fantastic. If they can fix the face...I don't have a problem with them being involved in this.
In regards to the Aliens, there is some truth in that, but their comments over what makes for a biomechanical aesthetic, during the making of the most recent one, gave most of us reasons to cringe.
For the Predators, yeah, like I said, most people liked 'Wolf', when its mask was on. the bulkiness of the previous ones was meant to be down to the material the other director had specified.
Above all concerns about the recent Predators (AVP and AVPR) we saw, stands one major concern:
THERE IS NO KEVIN PETER HALL INSIDE!!
Whatever suit, costume or rubber, latex, silicone ADI, Legacy Studio or KNB can use, and all their professional knowledge, which I never would doubt, it is still the acting, that makes the Predator to the creature we love that much.
I don't wanna blame now Ian Whyte for his acting inside the suits in the last 2 movies, cause I know how freaking hard it is to find a approx 7 feet high athletic and sporty guy, which should have decent acting skills at the same time. No question!
So towards the main question, I would say that ADI could make a good Predator design and good looking, believable suits, if FOX gives them the needed resources. And that is money and time.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 28, 2009, 01:39:05 AM
...so how 'bout them ADI Preds?
They suck.
Would you like fries with that?
Quote from: Bishop2 on Apr 28, 2009, 05:53:29 AM
Personally, I suspect the fanbase will never be pleased until Kevin Peter Hall is brought back from the dead and put back into a Predator suit in order to properly fill it out.
Whyte's preformance in the 1st AVP wasn't great because the suits we too heavy. The much slimmer Predator in AVP:R was easier for Whyte to work in. I thought he did a great job in AVP:R
I would hope they bring him back to this film as well.
Thats a given. ^
That's what I am thinking. I can't see putting someone else without the expirience Whyte has.
Experience, but also he's got the body for it. Not too many actors around that are over 7".
I don't mind Whyte reprising the role, but I'm done with ADI...I'd love to see someone new handling it (with nice credentials)...whoever mentioned KNB deserves a cookie...
Cookie taken, I'd really love to see them try the Predator, them or Weta, or simply hand the contract to SWFX/Legacy FX.
Whoever will do, the new Predator design will be interesting, i think. But I hope it will not be bad, of course! (Damn, i want Winston's team back! :'( )
Quote from: Gates on May 01, 2009, 11:57:55 PM
I don't mind Whyte reprising the role, but I'm done with ADI...I'd love to see someone new handling it (with nice credentials)...whoever mentioned KNB deserves a cookie...
...a cookie of pity, if you ask me. KNB does pretty shoddy work outside of gore effects.
What has KNB worked on? Anything popular?
Quote from: DoomRulz on May 04, 2009, 03:43:59 PM
What has KNB worked on? Anything popular?
They do a lot of work on gore/dead body effects, it seems like. I mean, they did work on
Casino Royale but there wasn't much interesting to see there aside from some gunshot wounds. They took over the body suits and prosthetics in the Austin Powers movies on
Goldmember, and most people seem to agree Fat Bastard looked far worse in that than he did in the previous one, so that doesn't really bode well.
They did creature effects on Wes Craven's
Cursed but I never saw that one, so maybe I'm selling them short. The creature effects I saw them do most recently were on "Tremors: The Series" and that had such a low budget that it's probably not a fair thing to judge them by.
Oh wait, they did the practical creatures in
Evolution. Those looked pretty good, I guess, although there weren't many to see. Mostly that was CGI.
Okay, here's a list: http://www.imdb.com/company/co0015640/
Quote from: Bishop2 on May 04, 2009, 03:36:09 PM
...a cookie of pity, if you ask me. KNB does pretty shoddy work outside of gore effects.
I don't follow...the Predator is a combination of prosthetic effects, animatronics, and good acting...KNB did the creature design for the first
Narnia flick and
The Mist (while not really fresh creations, neither is the Predator at this point)...they did decent animatronics work on
Transformers, which even though I personally dislike the film - special and practical effects were not high on the list of cons for that film...plug in Whyte and we have a 50/50 chance of receiving something nice looking and nice moving...
And with regards to gore and mutilated dead body effects, I would imagine that in a Predator film we would need a healthy dose of both...