With Alien: Covenant due out any soon, more information from the press rounds is pouring out. Talking to Yahoo Movies (https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/alien-covenant-ridley-scott-admits-got-prometheus-wrong-teases-two-alien-sequels-exclusive-144721534.html), Sir Ridley Scott spoke about the reception to Prometheus and how fan reaction shaped Alien: Covenant.
"Fast-forward to 2017 and the beast is back. The classic xenomorph is front and centre in 'Alien: Covenant' (in cinemas Friday) – a direct sequel set 10 years after the events of 2012's divisive 'Prometheus' – so what changed?
"What changed was the reaction to 'Prometheus', which was a pretty good ground zero reaction," the forthright filmmaker responds without hesitation.
"It went straight up there, and we discovered from it that [the fans] were really frustrated. They wanted to see more of the original [monster] and I thought he was definitely cooked, with an orange in his mouth. So I thought: 'Wow, OK, I'm wrong'.""The fans, in a funny kind of way – they're not the final word – but they are the reflection of your doubts about something," Scott explains, "and then you realise 'I was wrong' or 'I was right'. I think that's where it comes in. I think you're not sensible if you don't actually take [the fans' reaction] into account."
Scott has spoken out in the past about not taking note of critical reception of his films but it seems he may be taking note of the fan reaction. Alien vs. Predator Galaxy recently had the opportunity to put some questions across to Sir Ridley Scott (videos will be coming soon!) and we asked about the change from Prometheus to Alien. He also told us that some of change of direction that was due to fan reaction on social media.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/10052017_05.jpg)
Yahoo Movies also asked Scott about the future of the Alien series. He re-affirmed that Neill Blomkamp's Alien 5 had ceased movement, shot down hopes of any revitalised interest in a new Alien vs. Predator film and added a couple of more months onto his previous 14 months estimate before he starts shooting Alien: Covenant 2 (Alien: Awakening?):
"As for the future of the franchise, Scott thinks there's a lot left in the tank creatively with screenwriter John Logan ('Skyfall', 'Alien: Covenant') already delivering a script for a direct sequel that Scott aims to shoot after 'All The Money In The World' and 'The Cartel'.
"I'll probably be filming it within a year," Scott says about the follow up to 'Covenant'. "It'll be out within a year and nine months. It's weird when you're writing, doing, planning, thinking about franchises, it's amazing how it opens up and starts to evolve."
On whether that film, rumoured to be called 'Alien: Awakening', will complete the prequel series and lead us directly up to the events of the 1979 'Alien', Scott remains coy. "I don't know. [I'll make] maybe two more [films], or maybe one more, I don't know."
Thanks to the Perfect Organism Podcast for the news! Keep a close eye on Alien vs. Predator Galaxy for the latest on Alien: Covenant and Alien: Covenant 2! You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram to get the latest on your social media walls. You can also join in with fellow Alien fans on our forums!
Have to take all this film promotion chat with a pinch of salt but a lack of Alien(s) was definitely not the biggest or only problem with Prometheus. Also if a script or outline for the sequel has already been thrashed out then surely he would know whether it'll take one or two movies to bridge the gap between Covenant and Alien?
Love that pic of the engineer.
Well Im sure theres gonna be another fan backlash after what David does.
HOWEVER! The lack of Aliens are way way down the list of the problems with Prometheus.
Quote from: T Dog on May 10, 2017, 07:21:38 PM
Well Im sure theres gonna be another fan backlash after what David does.
HOWEVER! The lack of Aliens are way way down the list of the problems with Prometheus.
I hope so. They can still turn back now, it's not too late. I doubt they will, though. :-\
Quote from: T Dog on May 10, 2017, 07:21:38 PM
Well Im sure theres gonna be another fan backlash after what David does.
HOWEVER! The lack of Aliens are way way down the list of the problems with Prometheus.
Boy I hope he gets an earful for what he did to David and Shaw and entire Prometheus narrative, and lets not get started with the entire Alien aspect.
Quote from: Evanus on May 10, 2017, 07:30:38 PM
Quote from: T Dog on May 10, 2017, 07:21:38 PM
Well Im sure theres gonna be another fan backlash after what David does.
HOWEVER! The lack of Aliens are way way down the list of the problems with Prometheus.
I hope so. They can still turn back now, it's not too late. I doubt they will, though. :-\
Fans can influence studios. So if there's a big enough outcry it could change things. At least in the area of the story that you're referring too.
It wasn't a lack of Aliens that hurt Prometheus, though I do think it would have benefited from more xeno variations , but it was the dumb as shit obnoxious characters that hurt it more than anything else.
Yeah Ridley but you didn't have to wholly abandon the Engineers. :'(
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on May 10, 2017, 07:37:47 PM
Yeah Ridley but you didn't have to wholly abandon the Engineers. :'(
Yeah, he's just making things worse. Much worse.
Changing the jockey to a humanoid was ok. Making them our creators .........not cool. Most of the fan base agrees on that(that's my perception anyway- correct me if I am wrong) but its only now that Scott is taking that into consideration. Its a pity that it didn't happen earlier.
And then wiping them out ..... even cooler.
*snip. Let's keep it respectful, please. This isn't IMDB. Thanks, Hicks.
The thing that is really missing from these movies and is so utterly disappointing is the lack of the Giger aesthetic.
I know I daydreamed many times of what the space jockey would look like, how it would move, a return to the inside of the ship with the black bones and pipes and organs in the walls. I dreamed about what their world would look like, their unintelligible architecture and technology. A world and civilisation where tge biology and machinery was a nightmarish blur.
Instead we get f**king Star Trek movies that are pretending to be Alien.
Why does Scott and co think the main issue people had with Prometheus was the lack of Xenomorphs?
While he has addressed the decision in the fan base I hope they don't go too overboard with fan service.
Quote from: imbrie on May 10, 2017, 07:41:46 PM
And then wiping them out ..... even cooler.
*snip. Let's keep it respectful, please. This isn't IMDB. Thanks, Hicks.
Sorry, but I have absolutely no idea how my post was disrespectful, and, to whom. Happy to discuss via PM.
Incoming.
Logan returning could be seen as a good or bad thing depending on what you thought of Covenant (still waiting on the 18th). I was kinda expecting Dante Harper to take on scripting duties though.
Harper will probably come in again for rewrites. He might not have an interest in the direction they're taking too.
I wonder what the early scripts was about the story I mean before it was changed - what was the story Scott wanted to tell then. Would kill to know that.
Would it be a very different story to this one? If it is closer to what we wanted then again who made that decision .
For now let's assume Scott.
Has Ridley gone the way of Lucas with the prequels? ::)
Quote from: oduodu on May 10, 2017, 08:02:06 PM
I wonder what the early scripts was about the story I mean before it was changed - what was the story Scott wanted to tell then. Would kill to know that.
I've always been curious about that too. I don't think there was a script written for a direct sequel to
Prometheus. I think there pitches, but nothing ever to paper.
Quote from: Whos_Nick on May 10, 2017, 07:45:10 PM
Why does Scott and co think the main issue people had with Prometheus was the lack of Xenomorphs?
It was a big thing for those of us that wanted a true Alien prequel. Though the lack of an Alien wasn't the driving force behind the reason why Prometheus was so-so.
He wasn't that wrong with Prometheus and the Alien was inside of there. As he put it, it's DNA. It was on the wall, in the hammerpede and at the very end. I think he just ran into the problem of having a prequel that was well before the movie where the real alien appears and didn't know what to call it. If he called in Alien and the alien didn't appear all shit would have hit the fan.
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 10, 2017, 08:06:54 PM
He wasn't that wrong with Prometheus and the Alien was inside of there. As he put it, it's DNA. It was on the wall, in the hammerpede and at the very end. I think he just ran into the problem of having a prequel that was well before the movie where the real alien appears and didn't know what to call it. If he called in Alien and the alien didn't appear all shit would have hit the fan.
This^
Quote from: oduodu on May 10, 2017, 08:02:06 PM
I wonder what the early scripts was about the story I mean before it was changed - what was the story Scott wanted to tell then. Would kill to know that.
So would I. If Fox really is listening: what we want is Ridley Scott sci-fi movies, the more ambitious the better. We prefer him leading trends, not following them. Let him off the leash for the next one and you will be glad. The fans will debate the details forever, but Scott's VISION is something we all admire and want to see taken to its limits. I think the response to Prometheus and Covenant shows that its Scott's vision, not the monster, that we are drawn to. Prometheus was headed on the right direction: the unknown. Knowing that this series is going to collide with Alien is causing anxiety, not anticipation. So for at least two reasons, I hope Scott is allowed to do something bolder than an Alien prequel.
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on May 10, 2017, 07:37:47 PM
Yeah Ridley but you didn't have to wholly abandon the Engineers. :'(
I wanted to learn more about the damn engineers. >:(
Quote from: oduodu on May 10, 2017, 08:08:56 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on May 10, 2017, 08:06:54 PM
He wasn't that wrong with Prometheus and the Alien was inside of there. As he put it, it's DNA. It was on the wall, in the hammerpede and at the very end. I think he just ran into the problem of having a prequel that was well before the movie where the real alien appears and didn't know what to call it. If he called in Alien and the alien didn't appear all shit would have hit the fan.
This^
It's too bad they didn't wait until after fans had seen a longer cut of Prometheus before decent to make a change. Lindelof gave them everything they needed on the page to answer many of the complaints. If just a few this worked better, it would dramatically improve people's enjoyment of the film. It's a cerebral movie that moves extremely fast. Most people only saw it once. They should have slowed it down for home video and spent more time on characterisation. And remove some of those on the nose reshoots that make Shaw and Janek jump to crazy conclusions instead of letting the audience find it. Just sloooow it down. Like Alien and Aliens do.
Quote from: Whos_Nick on May 10, 2017, 08:04:09 PM
Has Ridley gone the way of Lucas with the prequels? ::)
Prometheus wasn't nearly as bad as Phantom Menance. Maybe the same basic idea of him having too much control over the project, but even so, the comparison feels unfair for a variety of reasons.
Quote from: NickisSmart on May 10, 2017, 08:34:12 PM
Quote from: Whos_Nick on May 10, 2017, 08:04:09 PM
Has Ridley gone the way of Lucas with the prequels? ::)
Prometheus wasn't nearly as bad as Phantom Menance. Maybe the same basic idea of him having too much control over the project, but even so, the comparison feels unfair for a variety of reasons.
People project too much of Lucas onto Scott. Totally different people and movies. Only similarity is how the fans react to uncanniness: seeing familiar stories by familiar filmmakers but with digital effects. It gives people a weird feeling and then they start hunting for reasons to explain their repulsion. I wish people would get over it, but they can't.
Quote from: Protozoid on May 10, 2017, 08:27:08 PM
Quote from: oduodu on May 10, 2017, 08:02:06 PM
I wonder what the early scripts was about the story I mean before it was changed - what was the story Scott wanted to tell then. Would kill to know that.
So would I. If Fox really is listening: what we want is Ridley Scott sci-fi movies, the more ambitious the better. We prefer him leading trends, not following them. Let him off the leash for the next one and you will be glad. The fans will debate the details forever, but Scott's VISION is something we all admire and want to see taken to its limits. I think the response to Prometheus and Covenant shows that its Scott's vision, not the monster, that we are drawn to. Prometheus was headed on the right direction: the unknown. Knowing that this series is going to collide with Alien is causing anxiety, not anticipation. So for at least two reasons, I hope Scott is allowed to do something bolder than an Alien prequel.
You say "we" like you're talking for all of us.
I still believe that Prometheus was a very good film. Especially Elizabeth Shaw was worth watching to. Moreover ,the general idea of Prometheus was gripping, That is why I do not hestitate to go to the cinema to watch film similar to Prometheus.What is more, the biggest advantages of this film was a deep sense, loooking for fundamentals answers about human. If people want film like actions film without any idea, I do not belong to this group.
I'm among those who think Scott is wrong now.
I'm not an Alien fan. I just like the series of movies. Prometheus had problems but it was an a somewhat clumsy attempt to broaden the Alien universe and I was OK with that perspective.
I'll not put all the Alien fans in the same bag (OK, I'm just using a calque of a French expression because I don't know the English one, sorry :laugh:), but once there were news about a potential Alien 5 that would have rebooted the series, I was perplex. Rehearsing Alien or Aliens indefinitely is clearly not what I want for this series. I haven't seen the new movie yet, but I know it won't be revolutionary on that matter.
I would like new movies, but taking a different road and expanding the universe. It would not mean letting the xenomorphs altogether on the sideway.
Scott seems to forget that among those who liked the mysteries of Alien, there were imaginative people who indeed asked themselves what was the Space Jockey (and the aliens), but also people who wondered about the rest of what could be invented in such a universe, that has potential for dark discoveries and a tone of his own. People who like Giger's beast but who wonder also what horrors could represent a war between the Engineers and a similarly advanced species, for example.
Scott is getting wrong. Prometheus main problems as noting to do with the lack of Aliens.
It has to do with among other things:
- Incredibly stupid,not relatable and not likable characters, probably the worse of the whole franchise
- Extremly ndervelopped and as result underwhelming Engineers
- A film which seems rushed
- Cut secnes which must have figured in the movie
- Many questions without answers,etc...
To add Xenomorph in this movie could have even made it worse.
QuoteMany questions without answers,etc...
This is not a problem per se, most notably when you know there will be a sequel somewhere down the line. And there is also the fact that some questions have answers (or propositions of answers) in the movie itself (when you pounder about it), and others can be left that way (in another genre, Tolkien himself specifically let in this works mysteries, because it's better that way).
QuoteWhat is more, the biggest advantages of this film was a deep sense, loooking for fundamentals answers about human.
The way Prometheus turned up, that thematic was maybe a bit pretentious for this movie. But it was a risk and I prefer creators who take risks to others who just follow the trend.
People who are responsible for this franchise don't know what they're doing. So far Covenant's got slightly less positive reviews than Prometheus and then what? Changes again because fans don't like it?
Quote from: T Dog on May 10, 2017, 07:44:40 PM
The thing that is really missing from these movies and is so utterly disappointing is the lack of the Giger aesthetic.
I know I daydreamed many times of what the space jockey would look like, how it would move, a return to the inside of the ship with the black bones and pipes and organs in the walls. I dreamed about what their world would look like, their unintelligible architecture and technology. A world and civilisation where tge biology and machinery was a nightmarish blur.
Instead we get f**king Star Trek movies that are pretending to be Alien.
Chris Seagers (Covenant's Production Designer) mentioned in an interview recently that they were working towards the Giger aesthetic. Apparently it's actually part of the evolving story and the biomechanical elements will be introduced gradually.
Quote from: Chris Seagers"The aesthetic choices aren't just superficial, they tie into the larger story. "Technically, we're slightly earlier than the Giger stuff, a little bit," Seagers explained. "We're sort of edging into that. That's part of that whole storyline."
Not sure about the Space Jockeys (aka Engineers) though. Looks like they are goners for now. But I'm actually fine with just seeing more remnants of their civilization though.
With what I read about the plot I'm none to happy about Ridley's movie's being made over Blomkamps entry.
Quote from: oduodu on May 10, 2017, 07:39:56 PM
Changing the jockey to a humanoid was ok. Making them our creators .........not cool. Most of the fan base agrees on that(that's my perception anyway- correct me if I am wrong) but its only now that Scott is taking that into consideration. Its a pity that it didn't happen earlier.
I don't think most cares at all that the engineers created us and look like us. I think most people care about the stupid characters doing stupid things (which means the alien creature was also not the big problem with prometheus).
Quote from: That Yellow Alien on May 10, 2017, 07:36:08 PM
It wasn't a lack of Aliens that hurt Prometheus, though I do think it would have benefited from more xeno variations , but it was the dumb as shit obnoxious characters that hurt it more than anything else.
On opening night at the cinema I attended there was an audible cheer when Vickers torched Holloway. Logan Marshall Green's performance plus the script made that character insufferable. There were bright spots but I think that scene's intent was to invoke sympathy from the audience. Total failure though.
I'm looking forward to Alien: Covenant as I've heard the characters are much better.
The general audience wants superheroes, dinosaurs, and fast cars. The Alien fanbase is completely divided right now so there really is no film Ridley and Fox could have made that would satisfy everyone. It's kind of a tricky place. Hopefully Covenant will satisfy a lot of people and make some money, otherwise I could see Fox saying screw high budget Alien movies from this point on.
I actually quite liked Prometheus but I agree it could have been so much better.
I might be in a small minority but I'd liked Prometheus to have been a 3 hour epic with a 2001 style vision.
Weyland's TED talk should have been in, and much if the viral stuff.
The journey to LV 223 should have taken longer on screen.
Holloway was a dreadful, unsympathetic character. I also blame the actor.
Idris Elba was underused as was Charlize Theron. Two very good actors and proper stars who could have had expanded roles.
We possibly needed more about the Engineers and more answers in Prometheus not wait until the sequel.
I believe it was one such film that the bare bones story wasn't as well served as perhaps one that was a bit more bloated and full more of subplots and ideas.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I liked Prometheus. I think the scenes that were cut should have been in there (making dumb decisions less stupid), but overall I like the expanding the universe and trying something new. I think Alien Covenant will feel more like a pleaser for the alienfans. Nothing wrong with that, but more risky directions should be supported too.
Nice to see what I've been talking about confirmed. Pity the storyline is now repetitious and tired, even if I expect AC to be a fun, impeccably-made horror movie.
Prometheus had its share of flaws and issues, but what it didn't lack for was scope and vision to expand the franchise in new directions without damaging
Alien - adding a cosmic scale to stories that was already inherent in the original vision of the alien as an ancient weapon.
The new direction with AC allows for all the body horror
Prometheus unfortunately lacked (and didn't have to), but the problem is that it not only regresses the series to the same old routine and fan service - it also fundamentally compromises
Alien, subverting it into
Spoiler
the master plan of an evil android
a mere decade or two prior. I think that's a huge shame.
It's a shame indeed. And I'm afraid things will get even worse after Covenant. But I hope I'm wrong.
Covenant it´s worst than Prometheus. Ridley doesn´t know what to do with the franchise. He is mixing thing so bad and he didn´t continue with the Engineers on Covenant. We want Engineers, we want Engineers creating Xenos, not David. We want the Engineers planet with H.R Giger designs..
I am loosing faith after seeing Covenant. Ridley destroyed the Engineers, destroyed Shaw (amazing character) and he is not using practical effects for the creatures.
Quote from: John Doe on May 10, 2017, 11:57:05 PM
Covenant it´s worst than Prometheus. Ridley doesn´t know what to do with the franchise. He is mixing thing so bad and he didn´t continue with the Engineers on Covenant. We want Engineers, we want Engineers creating Xenos, not David. We want the Engineers planet with H.R Giger designs..
I am loosing faith after seeing Covenant. Ridley destroyed the Engineers, destroyed Shaw (amazing character) and he is not using practical effects for the creatures.
While the engineers didn't create the alien itself, they did play a big part in its creation. So there's that.
Quote from: John Doe on May 10, 2017, 11:57:05 PM
Covenant it´s worst than Prometheus. Ridley doesn´t know what to do with the franchise. He is mixing thing so bad and he didn´t continue with the Engineers on Covenant. We want Engineers, we want Engineers creating Xenos, not David. We want the Engineers planet with H.R Giger designs..
I am loosing faith after seeing Covenant. Ridley destroyed the Engineers, destroyed Shaw (amazing character) and he is not using practical effects for the creatures.
I can't stand Shaw. One man's dream is another man's nightmare.
By the way, i didn´t see this clip before going to press screening and now that i saw it.... it explains what i felt at cinema about the CGI Xeno :
That´s why the movie has a low budget than Prometheus. The production was rushed, like the CGI. Too many ideas but not much time to do it.
Production couldn't have been rushed, they spent 5 bloody years getting to this point lol.
Quote from: John Doe on May 10, 2017, 11:57:05 PM
Covenant it´s worst than Prometheus. Ridley doesn´t know what to do with the franchise. He is mixing thing so bad and he didn´t continue with the Engineers on Covenant. We want Engineers, we want Engineers creating Xenos, not David. We want the Engineers planet with H.R Giger designs..
I am loosing faith after seeing Covenant. Ridley destroyed the Engineers, destroyed Shaw (amazing character) and he is not using practical effects for the creatures.
They hammered out this script for years. I understand why they did it. It's more cinematic to have David create (or recreate) the Xenomorph. The audience is not personally invested with the Engineers. It's all for dramatic purposes.
Besides, they can include the Engineers planet/Xenomorph homeworld for future sequels.
Quote from: Whos_Nick on May 11, 2017, 12:39:20 AM
Production couldn't have been rushed, they spent 5 bloody years getting to this point lol.
Read what FXS team told on the AVP interview. They didn´t have enought time for the Alien puppet and they kept for the next movie.
QuoteThe audience is not personally invested with the Engineers.
One of the point of
Prometheus should have been to tend towards this result. It didn't really manage to do that. Some deleted scenes we can see could have helped : the interraction with the awoken Engineer for instance - but strangely the Engineer reacts agressively to Weyland's words even though he could not understand them, David having no time to do a translation ; the longer pursuit between Shaw and the Engineer, etc.
I'm starting to question what the point of being a fan of this franchise is anymore. There's never going to be another movie that satisfies everyone. The direction the series is going in is just going to piss people off and kill everything. Scott is chasing his muse into a black hole.
Just skip Covenant. For your own mental health. Move on to another fandom. You'll be happier. There is only death and mourning here. Sure, we can watch the old movies and enjoy those, but soon the newer prequels will kill off anything you liked about them. In a year there will efffectively be no fandom left.
Some of us will stay, like the musicians playing on the Titanic, but eventually the sun will burn out and all life will cease. Perhaps some visitor from another world will stumble across the ashes of earth and find a skeleton holding a laptop. The visitors will wonder what this strange creature was doing, and speculation will run wildly. Decades after returning to their homeworld, a holographic adventure film inspired by this discovery is made, and it will be rather sensationalized. In this movie, the human skeleton with a laptop turns out to be a spacesuit. Inside is a creature that closely resembles the alien visitors.
The visitors who remember the original discovery are angry. They go home to their house-pods and furiously type away on their computers, not noticing the asteroid about to hit their planet.
Years later another civilization discovers the visitor's home planet. Exploring the ruins of a city they discover the remains of one of the visitors at their computer. "What was he doing? Is this a skeleton?" one of the Explorers says. The other Explorer pauses for a moment, then says "Nah, it's gotta be a suit of some kind."
Um...anyway, what was I talking about again?
Quote from: acidreign on May 11, 2017, 12:52:11 AM
I'm starting to question what the point of being a fan of this franchise is anymore. There's never going to be another movie that satisfies everyone. The direction the series is going in is just going to piss people off and kill everything. Scott is chasing his muse into a black hole.
Just skip Covenant. For your own mental health. Move on to another fandom. You'll be happier. There is only death and mourning here. Sure, we can watch the old movies and enjoy those, but soon the newer prequels will kill off anything you liked about them. In a year there will efffectively be no fandom left.
Some of us will stay, like the musicians playing on the Titanic, but eventually the sun will burn out and all life will cease. Perhaps some visitor from another world will stumble across the ashes of earth and find a skeleton holding a laptop. The visitors will wonder what this strange creature was doing, and speculation will run wildly. Decades after returning to their homeworld, a holographic adventure film inspired by this discovery is made, and it will be rather sensationalized. In this movie, the human skeleton with a laptop turns out to be a spacesuit. Inside is a creature that closely resembles the alien visitors.
The visitors who remember the original discovery are angry. They go home to their house-pods and furiously type away on their computers, not noticing the asteroid about to hit their planet.
Years later another civilization discovers the visitor's home planet. Exploring the ruins of a city they discover the remains of one of the visitors at their computer. "What was he doing? Is this a skeleton?" one of the Explorers says. The other Explorer pauses for a moment, then says "Nah, it's gotta be a suit of some kind."
Um...anyway, what was I talking about again?
.....okay then.
This confirms what I was worried about, that he learned the wrong lessons from Prometheus. Now if only Ridley would admit that The Counselor and Exodus were mistakes. :laugh:
he is wrong, he should not apologize just because some people did not understood his movie, Prometheus is good, it only needs better editing and the deleted scenes back in, this is stupid, negating his movie because of negative backslash
Prometheus was a terrible movie with lazy writing that relied on supposedly intelligent characters behaving unintelligently to advance the plot. The negative backlash was well deserved.
Blomkamp's Alien 5 got people excited in a way that Covenant hasn't... but Ridley's ego won't let any of the other kids play in his sandbox.
I'd much rather he stepped back and let others expand on the universe again. I'd certainly rather see Alien 5 than yet another Prometheus misstep.
I think Prometheus was hurt most by the poor..whoops, I mean BAD script. Now, I can absolutely respect any person wanting to honestly create something as they see fit, whether it be music, movies, etc. If it was the movie he wanted it to be, and he is satisfied with it, then so be it. But if we're being totally honest here, I would love to hear him say "we hired the wrong guy to write this thing, and it backfired majorly". In this particular universe (Alien) you have a horrific monster hunting people. The simplicity is the most beautiful part of it. The only mysteries were the space jockey and how Wey-Yu knew about the crash.
But with Prometheus, (in my sole and personal opinion) it felt like Damon was knowingly trying to input as much philosophical white noise and unanswered questions as possible to confuse people into thinking it was some intricately written and deeply well thought out philosophical masterpiece. I'm one of those people that was blessed to experience the Alien universe at a young age, when I wasn't supposed to be watching stuff like that. ;D When Prometheus came along and made the space jockey into some Humanoid Darwin, it took away a huge piece of the magic from the original film for me. Space is a dark void, and darkness belongs to the monsters.
What damn sites was Ridley reading to come to the conclusion that Prometheus needed more Xeno's? It obviously wasn't this site. In the grand scheme of things, this sites membership is a miniscule percentage of the movie going public. Shrug.. Maybe Ridley is right.. Maybe the average movie goer who would see these films knows a little bit about the ALIEN series and just wants a simple monster movie.
I've been a fan since I saw the first film on VHS in the early 1980's, but after half a dozen films and probably close to 100 viewings.. I'm bored of Xeno's
IMO, the trouble with Prometheus is that the Engineers feel like a tacked on afterthought. Intelligence and power with malevolent intent is a lot more scary and unnerving to me than critters crawling through ducts. Also too much time screwing around with old man Withers.. err Weyland.. It's a wasted opportunity because Prometheus could have been saved with a proper part 2 follow-up.
Nobody watches a movie like The Fellowship of the Ring as a stand alone story. You need to see Two Towers and Return of the King to make it complete. That is what I hoped for, but this feels more like a reboot. Another robot slips a cog movie.
How many people here have seen the movie yet? Seems like a lot of people are making hyperbolic statements before having seen it. See it for yourself and make up you own mind.
Quote from: Mustangjeff on May 11, 2017, 03:45:50 AM
What damn sites was Ridley reading to come to the conclusion that Prometheus needed more Xeno's?
When
Prometheus came out there were a lot of people wondering if it did have the alien in it, or where was the alien, etc. That's something he can pick up on and do differently. When it comes to criticism of the story or writing itself, you can get like 20 different answers from 10 people. So it seems at the end of the day Ridley will just go with the story he wants to tell.
Quote from: That Yellow Alien on May 11, 2017, 03:53:20 AM
How many people here have seen the movie yet? Seems like a lot of people are making hyperbolic statements before having seen it. See it for yourself and make up you own mind.
i seen it and very disappoint.
alien prequel pretty much is david story feat alien,engineer.
Well, any film set in the aliens "universe" that doesn't feature aliens probably won't cut the biscuits, as it were. It's like making a movie set in the marvel universe but it's all about Stark's Dad and some struggle about his purpose in life. People go into a marvel movie, they wanna see Iron Man. DC, they wanna see Batman. The Mummy, anyone but Tom Cruise. :) Space Philosophy is why we have movies like the Martian. But Prometheus was like a burger without the meat. Where's the beef man?
Quote from: T Dog on May 10, 2017, 07:44:40 PM
The thing that is really missing from these movies and is so utterly disappointing is the lack of the Giger aesthetic.
I know I daydreamed many times of what the space jockey would look like, how it would move, a return to the inside of the ship with the black bones and pipes and organs in the walls. I dreamed about what their world would look like, their unintelligible architecture and technology. A world and civilisation where tge biology and machinery was a nightmarish blur.
Instead we get f**king Star Trek movies that are pretending to be Alien.
Unless you wanna see that movie done for under $40m you'll never get that movie. It's not commercially viable enough and too abstract and weird for the general population. Ridley might be powerful enough to get it made but it would be on sever budget restriction as they would see it as a limited market film.
"How many people here have seen the movie yet? Seems like a lot of people are making hyperbolic statements before having seen it. See it for yourself and make up you own mind."
I second gantarat. I've read the full plot summary, and I'm strongly leaning towards waiting for the Blu-ray release. And the marketing did spoil way too much, but I don't mind spoilers.
"How many people here have seen the movie yet? Seems like a lot of people are making hyperbolic statements before having seen it. See it for yourself and make up you own mind."
I second gantarat. I've read the full plot summary, and I'm strongly leaning towards waiting for the Blu-ray release. And the marketing did spoil way too much, but I don't mind spoilers.
I just got home from seeing it.
It's Great!
All these panic mongers, perfectionists and overly expectant going on about retcons and crap are full of bullshit. They can all just f**k off.
The only thing being retconned is their precious head canon.
Go see it.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: windebieste on May 11, 2017, 04:39:15 AM
I just got home from seeing it.
It's Great!
All these panic mongers, perfectionists and overly expectant going on about retcons and crap are full of bullshit. They can all just f**k off.
The only thing being retconned is their precious head canon.
Go see it.
-Windebieste.
yep retcon head canon that people believe than 30+ years.
Watched prometheus last night the first time I've done so in a few years. It really does have a great concept but the rushed edits and the 2hr running time dampens the narrative. But it wasnt as bad as I remembered.
Release an extended version since the original version woild have been 2hr and 35 minutes long. Dat alternate engineer fight was really effective.
Personally I hate it when directors and such panic due to negative reaction. If you have a vision, stick to it. Because he might have been responding to the wrong complaints.
I just saw it. I didn't mind Prometheus. But this film is a big fat stinking turd. SOOOO bad I wanted to walk out.
The first 30min were great and then.......
Forget about not having xeno's and stuff. Just a really poor screenplay and lazy directing. Acting was really good for such a piece of shit.
I mean even the mythology he is coming up with is just weak. He's doing more harm than good.
I am lost for words how bad this is.
So,
He begins ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD in a few days.
Then, He begins THE CARTEL in January 2018.
I suppose, He begins ALIEN: COVENANT 2 in July 2018.
Fully agree prometheus was a movie apart from alien an is not the xenomorph story just a start to the trilogy that would explain were an who created them.... personally i think
I can imagine Ridley Scott admitting he was wrong about anything and going on to say, '...still got paid though.' :)
Quote from: windebieste on May 11, 2017, 04:39:15 AM
I just got home from seeing it.
It's Great!
All these panic mongers, perfectionists and overly expectant going on about retcons and crap are full of bullshit. They can all just f**k off.
The only thing being retconned is their precious head canon.
Go see it.
-Windebieste.
Here here. I'll see it and stay true to my thoughts, though I suspect i'll be in your camp Windebieste because I've gotta say, some of the plot points I've read really don't upset me or phase me. It's nearly 40 years after the original man-in-a-suit movie, I'm just so glad it's still around and I for one, am glad about some of the elements Ridley is putting in.
QuotePrometheus is good, it only needs better editing and the deleted scenes back in
:D
Quote from: Sen on May 11, 2017, 02:48:35 AM
Prometheus was a terrible movie with lazy writing that relied on supposedly intelligent characters behaving unintelligently to advance the plot. The negative backlash was well deserved.
^This. The lack of Aliens was indeed not the biggest problem. I'm glad Prometheus is off the table and looking forward to Covenant and it's sequels. Alien: Isolation proved the Xeno is still fckin scary (hell maybe Scott even played it for all we know lol) and it seems Covenant is out to scare people. So bring on the new beasties, storylines and crazy androids. :P
I didn't find the movie all that 'scary'. Long time fans aren't going to be scared - it's a thriller, sure, and some of the action components are great as is the philosophical content. Scary, sure... I guess. If I was ever to find myself in the situation depicted in the movie and not familiar with critical themes the movie offers.
Thats' where 'ALIEN: Isolation' succeeded. It placed me directly in the shoes of Amanda Ripley. Yeah. That was scary at times.
For newcomers, yeah. It'll be a scary movie. It would be interesting experiment to take someone who's not been exposed to any 'ALIEN' movies, including the 'AvP' stuff - and see how they react.
And yes. A little tidying up would improve 'PROMETHEUS' outta sight! There's a decent movie there that I hope will one day emerge - much like 'ALIEN 3' has improved as time as passed with each release adding cut content returned to the movie. I think that will eventually happen.
-Windebieste.
The problem with the film being scary is there's no time to breathe. Fear is anticipation. There are lots of tense moments where lots of bad things happen at once, but you never really get any time to dread something happening because something is always happening.
It's like a roast, you gotta let it sit for a minute if you want to do it right.
Yeah. That's probably an issue that Scott himself should understand better. 'ALIEN's tension and scares are played out over a long period of time with very little else happening outside of 'where is it?' and 'how do we get rid of it?' Much of 'ALIEN' is little more than that.
I found 'A:C' to have a lot going on and be more of a space thriller along the lines of a roller coaster ride rather than something genuinely frightening.
-Windebieste.
Lindelof was the biggest issue with Prometheus glad to see Ridley remedied that one after he got his fingers burnt(although I will say the space jockey identity was a dud, although he could still readdress this)
Personally I love the way Scotts taking the story(controversial opinion I know) just add more Giger and its perfect!
Quote from: SuicideDoors on May 11, 2017, 07:08:36 AM
Quote from: windebieste on May 11, 2017, 04:39:15 AM
I just got home from seeing it.
It's Great!
All these panic mongers, perfectionists and overly expectant going on about retcons and crap are full of bullshit. They can all just f**k off.
The only thing being retconned is their precious head canon.
Go see it.
-Windebieste.
Here here. I'll see it and stay true to my thoughts, though I suspect i'll be in your camp Windebieste because I've gotta say, some of the plot points I've read really don't upset me or phase me. It's nearly 40 years after the original man-in-a-suit movie, I'm just so glad it's still around and I for one, am glad about some of the elements Ridley is putting in.
Me too, really enjoyed reading Windbieste review and you certainly made the film sound close to what I had hoped for.
You cant please everyone and I kind of like the idea that the story is going in a completely different direction than I imagined for all those years, its refreshing, to me anyway.
Roll on Saturday
Quote from: windebieste on May 11, 2017, 04:39:15 AM
I just got home from seeing it.
It's Great!
All these panic mongers, perfectionists and overly expectant going on about retcons and crap are full of bullshit. They can all just f**k off.
The only thing being retconned is their precious head canon.
Go see it.
-Windebieste.
lol! Winde's trying to lay the wood on 'em.
I think the people banging on about not getting a proper sequel really just wanted more engineers.
I just wanted a well constructed last half :P
Ridley Scott, as great as a filmmaker as he is just doesn't understand what made the first movie so appealing. It's not so much his fault, as he was involved in the process of making the film, but it's really time to pass the torch to someone who can see the bigger picture. Isolation is a perfect example of a group of creative people that "get it".
The problem isn't the Xenomorph, the problem is the ALIEN is gone. The mystery, the wonder and cosmic horror has been reduced to a slasher villain in space, with stories resulting in nothing more than people bumping into the Xenomorph and dying. Rinse off the blood and repeat. I appreciate Scott's attempts to bring some deeper meaning to the franchise, but it's done with out reverence to the source and ultimately it comes off sloppy and meaningless.
It's frustrating as all hell to see how muddled this series has become. As formulaic and sometimes filler as the Marvel and new Star Wars movies are, at least they are maintaining some consistency in their world building.
Quote from: SiL on May 11, 2017, 01:48:08 PM
I just wanted a well constructed last half :P
Yeah, it seems there was a bit too much going on, too fast towards the end.
I was referring to people who think
Prometheus II would have been god-tier and Alien: Covenant is for the peasants.
Quote from: Predaker on May 11, 2017, 02:15:27 PM
Quote from: SiL on May 11, 2017, 01:48:08 PM
I just wanted a well constructed last half :P
Yeah, it seems there was a bit too much going on, too fast towards the end.
I was referring to people who think Prometheus II would have been god-tier and Alien: Covenant is for the peasants.
It wouldn't have been God-tier. That kinda sci-fi doesn't exist in 2017 with a budget of 100m+ if it exist at all in film forum. We're well beyond the days where a studio would have the balls to release something like 2001 without adding a sub-plot to appeal to people who absolutely need human melodrama to make their films enjoyable (Interstellar I am looking at you). As much as I love the idea of Shaw and David exploring an Alien race we do not understand I've always known that wouldn't full happen because most people would be bored by that film.
I was just hoping for something more than a typical horror movie. I know people didn't like the Star Trek aspect of Prometheus but that is what kept me interested in the movie and keeps me kinda championing it even though it is not a good movie. I thought second time around maybe they would get it right.
I am thrilled that Ridley Scott is...FINALLY...taking the heat for the criticism lobbed at "Prometheus," which I loved, by the way. I felt it was hugely unfair that fans took out their frustrations on Damon Lindelof over the film, when all he did was write what Scott wanted. If Scott hadn't liked what Lindelof wrote, he wouldn't have directed it. As Lindelof has repeatedly stated, he would write something, go over with Scott, and Scott would advise him on what to do next. And as we all know, Scott loves to improvise on his sets, which made further changes.
It pisses me off that fans dumped on Lindelof because they were still butt-hurt about how "Lost" ended, which I loved, by the way. It was the "cool thing" to do at the time: instantly hate on anything Lindelof did. Never mind there were several cooks in the kitchen on the new "Star Trek" films; anything fans didn't like, it was Lindelof's fault.
I loved "Prometheus," so I'm not hating on the film. But I am happy that, after all these years, Scott can finally admit that HE was at fault for the film's shortcomings, not Lindelof. I respect Scott more now than I ever have.
It's generous of Ridley - he did sound pretty stubborn at the time, But also I think he's easing the responsibilites of the executive producers who ultimately had the final say. I suppose he needs their support now, especially to up the budget for what will probably be his final contribution to the franchise.
I don't mind Prometheus in retrospect - it has an Italian B-Movie vibe about it, mirroring the grand pretentions of those films, and the grand disappointments of not fulfilling their promise! :)
Quote from: fiveways on May 11, 2017, 03:13:42 PM
Quote from: Predaker on May 11, 2017, 02:15:27 PM
Quote from: SiL on May 11, 2017, 01:48:08 PM
I just wanted a well constructed last half :P
Yeah, it seems there was a bit too much going on, too fast towards the end.
I was referring to people who think Prometheus II would have been god-tier and Alien: Covenant is for the peasants.
It wouldn't have been God-tier. That kinda sci-fi doesn't exist in 2017 with a budget of 100m+ if it exist at all in film forum. We're well beyond the days where a studio would have the balls to release something like 2001 without adding a sub-plot to appeal to people who absolutely need human melodrama to make their films enjoyable (Interstellar I am looking at you). As much as I love the idea of Shaw and David exploring an Alien race we do not understand I've always known that wouldn't full happen because most people would be bored by that film.
I was just hoping for something more than a typical horror movie. I know people didn't like the Star Trek aspect of Prometheus but that is what kept me interested in the movie and keeps me kinda championing it even though it is not a good movie. I thought second time around maybe they would get it right.
I mean that kinda sci-fi does exist, we just had Prometheus.
The only "scary" thing in the film is how bad Ridley is butchering the alien franchise.
Quote from: fiveways on May 11, 2017, 03:13:42 PM
As much as I love the idea of Shaw and David exploring an Alien race we do not understand I've always known that wouldn't full happen because most people would be bored by that film.
It's not one or the other. I think you could've had both cosmic exploration with new ideas for the franchise
and grueling body horror and scares in the same film. Both
Prometheus and this film are two separate and incomplete halves of an excellent new movie thanks to elements within each.
Quote from: Game_Over_Man on May 11, 2017, 05:46:23 PM
It's generous of Ridley - he did sound pretty stubborn at the time, But also I think he's easing the responsibilites of the executive producers who ultimately had the final say. I suppose he needs their support now, especially to up the budget for what will probably be his final contribution to the franchise.
We need to stop putting this on other people. This was Ridley's choice - he made the calculation to go back to the alien and all its appropriate fan service, to re-crown himself the king of sci-fi horror.
QuoteI don't mind Prometheus in retrospect - it has an Italian B-Movie vibe about it, mirroring the grand pretentions of those films, and the grand disappointments of not fulfilling their promise! :)
It was in fact heavily inspired - at least visually - by Bava's
Planet of the Vampires.
Quote from: Lee on May 11, 2017, 04:41:29 PM
I am thrilled that Ridley Scott is...FINALLY...taking the heat for the criticism lobbed at "Prometheus," which I loved, by the way. I felt it was hugely unfair that fans took out their frustrations on Damon Lindelof over the film, when all he did was write what Scott wanted.
While I'd seen Furious Gods a few times and read Spaihts' draft several times, I've only recently read Lindelof's and I have to say, there's stuff in there that is better than the film. Off the top of my head - Milburn isn't a biologist so it's not as stupid with the Hammerpede and that line about everyone wanting their parents dead is along the lines of "doesn't everyone hate their parents?"
Unfortunately, there's been a lot going on so my memory might not be as clear but I remember reading it going "this is much better." I think Scott and Scalia's editing has been more harmful. For Prometheus and Covenant.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on May 11, 2017, 06:54:04 PM
We need to stop putting this on other people. This was Ridley's choice - he made the calculation to go back to the alien and all its appropriate fan service, to re-crown himself the king of sci-fi horror.
I understand that was actually forced down on him. And you can tell, I think.
I don't have a reason to doubt you, I guess it just doesn't feel like him at all to me. This film seems like his attempt at a victory lap after being doubted slightly with Prometheus (and having no idea where to go next story-wise).
I do agree Scott's compulsion to be pacey in the editing hurts both films. And I think a similar compulsion and drive to continue proving out as the unaged master drove him back to the alien. The drive to make David/Fassbender central to the mythos seems very much a personal choice.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on May 12, 2017, 08:42:35 AM
The drive to make David/Fassbender central to the mythos seems very much a personal choice.
I completely agree. There's some definite and obvious fascination with David (and rightfully so, I think). I think that in order for him to play with this more, he had to bow to the Alien inclusion because that seems to be the big thing Fox took away from Prometheus.
I just think this particular story choice not only cheapened David's previously-ambiguous and fascinating character, it diminished the alien and the franchise at large.
Dookie, SpeedyMaxx, I agree.
Problem with Alien Covenant, is when David cut his own hair to look like Walters. It would have been obvious to Walter (who presumably has a high IQ) that David was showing motives to replace him by looking like him.
Also continuity error. Blood on woman's face. Then next scene no blood on face. Then blood on face again. Still totally forgiven!
Other problem is the conversation at the beginning by Peter Weyland about not believing evolution, by suggesting humans must have had a creator... glaring philosophical hole... who created the tall pale aliens? Evolution perhaps. Peter Weyland would be smart enough to realise the hole in his own logic.
However the rest of it was excellent. Worst part was Walter not realising... almost ruined the film.
All this shit ultimately came out of Jon Spaights head. He thought the only way people would be able to get into the space jockeys story would be if they "relatable" to humans and had a link to them. Thus the creation blah blah blah mumbo jumbo and the tall albino horseshit.
It was just f**king lazy and Ridley went with it because it was the easy answer.
And now this shit with David is again the lazy easy answer.
Quote from: T Dog on May 13, 2017, 01:01:20 AM
All this shit ultimately came out of Jon Spaights head. He thought the only way people would be able to get into the space jockeys story would be if they "relatable" to humans and had a link to them. Thus the creation blah blah blah mumbo jumbo and the tall albino horseshit.
It was just f**king lazy and Ridley went with it because it was the easy answer.
I suspect that came from both him and Scott. And it was likely correct. It's hard to play scenes with giant elephant men and make them viable to a mass audience. That being said, the way the Engineers were used didn't have to be quite so functional - just them running around hitting people.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on May 13, 2017, 01:22:34 AM
Quote from: T Dog on May 13, 2017, 01:01:20 AM
All this shit ultimately came out of Jon Spaights head. He thought the only way people would be able to get into the space jockeys story would be if they "relatable" to humans and had a link to them. Thus the creation blah blah blah mumbo jumbo and the tall albino horseshit.
It was just f**king lazy and Ridley went with it because it was the easy answer.
I suspect that came from both him and Scott. And it was likely correct. It's hard to play scenes with giant elephant men and make them viable to a mass audience. That being said, the way the Engineers were used didn't have to be quite so functional - just them running around hitting people.
They didnt even play any scenes with them bar one at the very end of the movie. They werent supposed to be "relatable". They are crazy looking f**king Aliens! Wheres the fun and intrigue in "relatable".
http://www.mtv.co.uk/alien-covenant/videos/alien-covenant-sequel-ridley-scott-and-cast-reveal-ideas
Not really anything but ...
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on May 11, 2017, 06:54:04 PM
It was in fact heavily inspired - at least visually - by Bava's Planet of the Vampires.
It's the original 79' Alien that is a ripoff of Terrore nello Spazio, not really prometheus.
Date: 3 May 2021
Topic: Ridley Scott Admits He Was "Wrong" about Covenant & Talks about Retirement
.....
Actually I hope this thing is succesful and he takes any critism to make the final prequel film amazing.
I wonder if he will admit someday that Engineers are a mistake. Though the bombing sequence might be his way of saying it :P
Ridley has made a lot of mistakes he'll never admit to. Like GI Jane. :laugh:
Quote from: cucuchu on May 15, 2017, 04:33:58 PM
Date: 3 May 2021
Topic: Ridley Scott Admits He Was "Wrong" about Covenant & Talks about Retirement
.....
Actually I hope this thing is succesful and he takes any critism to make the final prequel film amazing.
Ridley will never retire. He'll be making Prometheus 5 even after the giant cockroaches take over the Earth. :D
I think Alien Covenant was a very bad movie. The Alien universe became dull and shallow separated from the engineers and predators. The origin of the aliens in Alien Covenant took away anything interesting about the beast xenomorph.
For many years I liked the Alien franchise, but the direction Alien Covenant went was the coup de grace for the franchise, it feels like Ridley has a short time to live and wants to gut the franchise as fast as he can so no one can continue expanding the universe when he is gone. He wants Xenomorphs to be the plane Jane of space horror and with AC he accomplished that. Alone for the space ships and gorefest is a trip to the theaters not worth it.
When the movie was over I could not believe I had seen a movie that bad and I am not taking into consideration the major plot holes. People land on an alien planet and wear no helmets or any kind of protection against infection? Really?!
I could go on here, but I think the movie does not deserve more of my time, yet I felt motivated enough to rant about it.
The only thing I liked was Michael Fassbenders acting.