What happened before 1987?

Started by NightstormScarab, May 13, 2022, 12:59:29 PM

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What happened before 1987? (Read 1,284 times)

NightstormScarab

NightstormScarab

After completing my entire runthrough of all "Predator" comics I decided to move on to the "Predator novels. The reason I have inverted the word "Predator" in commas is because if it's Alien vs Predator or Batman vs Predator I haven't read them yet. I decided to first do only things named "Predator".

After reading the Predator 2 movie novel I noticed that it said Dutch was the "first human to actually defeat a Predator." Which means all of those comics/novels set pre 1987 and manage to kill a Predator don't fit. Which honestly is fine by me, because I always felt for an elite hunter their species win/loss record is kind of abysmal. When reading the comics I got the sense that some writers don't understand that I am not here for generic human #30. I am in fact here to see/read about the Predator. Even as little as ten comics in I began to notice a theme. 90% of the comic is about their human protagonist, the Predator has sparce introductions at the end of each issue and it always ends with their protagonist beating the Predator to make ANOTHER hero. Rinse, cycle and repeat for the entire comic line. The only time I remember them breaking the mold was for the "1718" comic with Greyback's backstory.

If we take this rule that no Predator deaths occurred before 1987 then the chronology timeline becomes a lot more realistic however we wipe out many installments and that is a shame but also I feel necessary to protect the Predator's capability. Here is what we would get without any Predator deaths:

1718 - Predator: 1718                  
1860-1890 – Predator: If It Bleeds: Buffalo Jump         
1926 - Predator: God's Truth                  
1933 – Predator: If It Bleeds – Blood and Sand         
1936 - Predator: The Pride at Nghasa            
1939-1945 – Predator: Demon's Gold            
1958 – Predator: Kindred                
1959 – Predator: Invaders from the Fourth Dimension      
1983 – Predator It It Bleeds – The Pilot            

All the other installments have a Predator die thus not making Dutch the first human to kill a Predator and breaking the lore. Further information from Hunting Grounds, and the original Predator and Predator 2 novels also suggests that the Predator species didn't see humans as worthy of hunting until Dutch. Before then the human species just wasn't worth the effort. There was no pride in hunting humans and a human trophy would essentially be scoughed at. Which is why I see Jungle Hunter as sort of a game changer. Some see Jungle Hunter as sort of a cheat or one could say even coward for challenging these unworthy humans. But on the contrary I see him as perceptive and ahead of the time. He saw a challenge in humans and further more went on to prove it. When Dutch and his team put up a great battle even defeating him in the end. Which City Hunter then saw and wanted to challenge his own skills against the human. In some dark way you could say Jungle Hunter was pulling for humans, almost saying "this species is worthy and deserves a chance". Elevating us and now putting humans on their radar.

Anyway I feel this fact has been backed up with new recent installments and in later novels such as Predator 2 when it says that the human species has advanced with the likes of soldiers and weapons. They also see a large majority of us as worker ants but every once in a while a queen ant will emerge such as Dutch, Harrigan and later Royce and so on. It is this type of human, a queen ant/leader/soldier that they want for a challenge. Before 1987 with the lack of weapon technology and the fact that they just didn't deem us worthy that I don't think a Predator would even consider hunting us. The Predator 2 novel strictly states that they keep records of their kinds death and Dutch was the "first" to kill a Predator in their records.

Finally I brought this to a friend who also follows the series and he said well maybe the Predator's are unranked and unskilled but isnt the lore that only skilled elite Predators are able to hunt alone. Which means most of these Predator's that died (alone) had to be on earth by themselves meaning they were ranked and highly regarded as an elite so they weren't unskilled. 

I feel until this point this rule of no Predator deaths on Earth pre 1987 can be followed by the movies and novels with the exception of some If It Bleeds stories. It is mostly only the comics that break this rule. It would appear that the new movie is also going to buck this trend and break the lore by adding Prey to that list of pre 87 deaths no longer having Dutch as the first human to kill a Predator. Let's face it the Predator is going to die... again.

I am interested in everyone's thoughts on this as I am not new to the series been following it on and off since around 1995 but this is the first time I have taken a deep dive into the expanded lore and tried to make sense of the surrounding elements.

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#1
I really don't care for the idea Dutch's the first to kill a Predator on Earth personally especially with what Anna said, I just feel it's a bit creatively restrictive, but I entirely see what you're saying about them dying like flies somewhat killing the mystique.

NightstormScarab

Yeah I can see what you are saying and kind of agree with restricting ourselves. Not a fan of ridding of any supplementals myself but we could just have these same stories only let the Predator survive. Need more stories like 1718 where we establish some Predator's. If the comics set up certain Predator characters then the movies and novels could continue their story. I like to think we could get some comics to set up a Predator, continued with a novel and then get him to show up in a movie. Personally I would love to see that. When the Predator whose story we have been following finally showed up on screen would be fantastic to recognise it and have it's backstory.

Some Old Dude

Some Old Dude

#3
I guess Prey happened before Predator.

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#4
Honestly, I never took Predator as actually being the first time a Predator had been defeated. As Blue says, it does wash away the mystique for it to keep happening - though not if you read Ultimate Prey - so it would certainly be nice to see more Predator victory in some of the random EU adventures, but that prospect will never not be an issue.

Some Old Dude

Some Old Dude

#5
I simply take it as Predators come and hunt all the time, we as audience members are only happening to see the times humanity eeks out a win.

Kane's other son

Every year big game hunters are killed by the animals they hunt. That doesn't make them as a whole less dangerous to the animals.

NightstormScarab

Quote from: Kane's other son on May 20, 2022, 08:00:44 AMEvery year big game hunters are killed by the animals they hunt. That doesn't make them as a whole less dangerous to the animals.

But if they were killed consistently by the same species then that species would be known as the dominant one. So what we are left with is humans always win in the end. Which yeah I think hurts the tension, I don't fear for the main characters life. It's not the worst thing in fact it is quite common in all horror movies. Very rarely does the protagonist not win. But I would like to see it more in a series that is named "Predator" not "Human". As opposed to telling the same story of human overcomes massive odds to win, again.

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#8
That's the majority of stories though. Even in Alien Covenant the Aliens are vanquished.

NightstormScarab

Yeah I understand that it can be applied to most series, I'm just saying I would like to see a bit more variety especially in supplemental materials like comics and novels where the Predator is the selling point. Could say the same for Aliens, I'm guessing most fans buy these materials to see the Predator/Alien so give them what they want. Like the Predator I share my username with. I would be much more interested in getting a comic giving us Nightstorms backstory than another human overcomes the odds story. Maybe I am alone in that? Having read the entire comic line, I've seen it too many times now.

[cancerblack]

[cancerblack]

#10
I don't think you're alone in wanting to see a few more L's for the human protagonists, or stories more focused on the titular creatures.

Can't agree with you that backstories for Kenner toys is the way to improve the series though lol.

NightstormScarab

NightstormScarab

#11
That's interesting because they used elements of them for the Hunting Grounds game and that made significant repairs to the series lore after The Predator movie.

NECA also gives backstory when many other materials don't bother. Lots of info on Jungle, City, Berserker, Falconer, The Lost Tribe and so on.

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