"Doesn't Everyone Want Their Parents Dead?" Prometheus 10th Anniversary Retrospective - AvP Galaxy Podcast #147

Started by Corporal Hicks, Jul 15, 2022, 04:44:41 PM

Author
"Doesn't Everyone Want Their Parents Dead?" Prometheus 10th Anniversary Retrospective - AvP Galaxy Podcast #147 (Read 18,680 times)

OmegaZilla

Quote from: Kradan on Jul 19, 2022, 12:41:20 PM
Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 19, 2022, 10:06:58 AMAlso it gets rid of Shaw, so like 500 bonus points

What about James Franco being rostated alive in the first 10 minutes ?
12500 points

javablue

Quote from: Kradan on Jul 16, 2022, 03:04:58 PMOmega mentioning whole "300 years of darvinism" thing made me remember a problem I always had watching that scene: Milburn says it as if 300 years makes it have more weight. Well, there's that little thing called Christianity, you stupid ass, which tells us that we were all created by the will of God and that shit existed for over 2000 years, you f**k !

Not sure what point you're trying to make but I agree with Omega. When Millburn said "300 years of Darwinism", I immediately thought, "well, he's not a biologist" because if he was he would have said, "3.5 billion years of Evolution" (as Omega pointed out).

Kradan

Quote from: Kradan on Jul 16, 2022, 07:07:35 PMWell, I guess, my point is that something being centuries old doesn't necessarily make it true

javablue

Excellent discussion. Very nostalgic.

judge death

Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 19, 2022, 10:06:58 AMIt does suffer from similar problems to Prometheus (many characters are not flawed like other 'ID island' films, but downright idiotic, for no discernible reason other than... they're dumb)
I will have to defend covenant here: In prometheus I agree they were dumb and thats why it dont fit the plot when they say these are the best scientists there is on earth, but in the movie they act like teenagers and idiots rather than scientists....
I see some people complain that the people in covenant are dumb and why they dont wear helmets or do science etc, why would they? They are colonist and normal workers, some are military to protect the others, none of them from what the movie shows are scientists. So to me its okay that they dont act too smart or talk like scientists would, more like the crew of nostromo, normal people traveling in space.

And we all know how dumb people can be and do stupid decisions, aka look at covid years how people fail to follow simpliest of tasks or rules....

NecronomIV

Quote from: judge death on Jul 21, 2022, 12:39:56 AM
Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 19, 2022, 10:06:58 AMIt does suffer from similar problems to Prometheus (many characters are not flawed like other 'ID island' films, but downright idiotic, for no discernible reason other than... they're dumb)
I will have to defend covenant here: In prometheus I agree they were dumb and thats why it dont fit the plot when they say these are the best scientists there is on earth, but in the movie they act like teenagers and idiots rather than scientists....
I see some people complain that the people in covenant are dumb and why they dont wear helmets or do science etc, why would they? They are colonist and normal workers, some are military to protect the others, none of them from what the movie shows are scientists. So to me its okay that they dont act too smart or talk like scientists would, more like the crew of nostromo, normal people traveling in space.

And we all know how dumb people can be and do stupid decisions, aka look at covid years how people fail to follow simpliest of tasks or rules....

I will say that when I watched this with my wife, who is a microbiologist and ecologist among other things, I was surprised she didn't mention Milburn's rather naive approach to the Hammerpede, and when I quizzed her about it she said "No... that's about right. A lot of people in the sciences aren't actually that sensible or bright."

Here's a joke: "What do you call someone who got 51% on their medicine exam?"
Answer: "Doctor"

OTOH, quarantine procedures for space-farers would almost certainly be breathtakingly high. In Covenant, and Prothemetheus both, taking off your helmet is not just stupid, it's likely contravening SOP. It's probably bad enough people carrying basic and exotic Terran infections from place to place (as the waves of flu, SARS and other exotics like Ebola and Monkeypox demonstrate!), let alone stopping off on an alien planet with an actual functioning ecology and picking up almost anything.

Ripley knew about quarantine procedure, and was not only sabotaged by the company in the form of Ash, but attacked for her by-the-book approach by her crew-mates who should have known better. I forget what Parker and Brett's reaction was, but Dallas and Lambert should have realised they weren't getting back on-board and their attitude otherwise suggests a certain lets-not-and-say-we-did approach to quarantine among truckers-in-space.

SiL

Their reactions aren't shown but I can't imagine either was ecstatic letting an Alien on board.

javablue

Quote from: NecronomIV on Jul 21, 2022, 05:18:20 AMI will say that when I watched this with my wife, who is a microbiologist and ecologist among other things, I was surprised she didn't mention Milburn's rather naive approach to the Hammerpede, and when I quizzed her about it she said "No... that's about right. A lot of people in the sciences aren't actually that sensible or bright."

Your wife has presented us with a paradox. How can take much notice of her opinion that a lot of scientists aren't very bright, given that she herself is a scientist and therefore possibly not very .......

However, fully agree with your comments on quarantine procedures.

OmegaZilla

Quote from: javablue on Jul 20, 2022, 12:59:50 PMNot sure what point you're trying to make but I agree with Omega. When Millburn said "300 years of Darwinism", I immediately thought, "well, he's not a biologist" because if he was he would have said, "3.5 billion years of Evolution" (as Omega pointed out).
THANK YOU

the guy's comic relief clearly, but a misplaced one....


Quote from: judge death on Jul 21, 2022, 12:39:56 AMI will have to defend covenant here: In prometheus I agree they were dumb and thats why it dont fit the plot when they say these are the best scientists there is on earth, but in the movie they act like teenagers and idiots rather than scientists....
I will concede if you convince me Oram's death is somehow justifiable within the context of the movie
or why no one questions why david is mimicking (and then maaaaybe replacing) walter

(genuine question, not an attack; I don't watch Covenant often)

NecronomIV

Quote from: javablue on Jul 21, 2022, 01:12:07 PM
Quote from: NecronomIV on Jul 21, 2022, 05:18:20 AMI will say that when I watched this with my wife, who is a microbiologist and ecologist among other things, I was surprised she didn't mention Milburn's rather naive approach to the Hammerpede, and when I quizzed her about it she said "No... that's about right. A lot of people in the sciences aren't actually that sensible or bright."

Your wife has presented us with a paradox. How can take much notice of her opinion that a lot of scientists aren't very bright, given that she herself is a scientist and therefore possibly not very .......

However, fully agree with your comments on quarantine procedures.

She was digusted by science in the end - way too much politicising, infighting, sabotage and you get to produce reports that allow the goverment to say "Look! We've done something about Problem X" and then implement or provide funding for exactly none of the recommendations. She moved to teaching, and then to farming/ecology/education.  :)

Immortan Jonesy

Immortan Jonesy

#55
Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 19, 2022, 10:06:58 AMA lot of people go back to O'Bannon's ideas but the truth of the matter is - they didn't matter anymore by 2012 and they certainly won't matter in the foreseeable future. To the joy of its fans and the dismay of many secular fans, Prometheus has won its way in official lore and it's not going away any time soon.

Covenant starts over from Prometheus and dare I say it's a much, much better film, more clean cut in what it wants to be, more clean cut with how it writes the android, and most importantly way, way meaner than Prometheus. If Prometheus was stitched together, Covenant is its refinement, and finds its voice in referencing classic gothic literature and British horror of old (Hammer horror most importantly). It does suffer from similar problems to Prometheus (many characters are not flawed like other 'ID island' films, but downright idiotic, for no discernible reason other than... they're dumb) but at the very least it retcons the retcon and makes the Alien go back to being something interesting.

Also it gets rid of Shaw, so like 500 bonus points

To me, Covenant definitely triumphs over Prometheus -- DESPITE that horrid android kung-fu and Oram being the worst written character of the entire series -- so I look forward to doing a podcast on it

I'll play nice when the time comes :P

I am not a canon denier despite sharing my nerdy fetishes. You're right, and unless someone makes a serious retcon, David is the creator of the Alien and the Engineers are the Space Jockeys. That being said, Covenant is a nice gothic sci-fi movie and the Fassbender vs. Fassbender scene reminds me of the Jinsei chamber from Mortal Kombat.  ;D


javablue

Quote from: Omegamorph on Jul 22, 2022, 12:20:19 AM
Quote from: javablue on Jul 20, 2022, 12:59:50 PMNot sure what point you're trying to make but I agree with Omega. When Millburn said "300 years of Darwinism", I immediately thought, "well, he's not a biologist" because if he was he would have said, "3.5 billion years of Evolution" (as Omega pointed out).

THANK YOU

the guy's comic relief clearly, but a misplaced one....

The actions of Millburn (and Fifield) are clearly set up to be interpreted as comic relief but I think their role goes beyond that. And if you look closely at Holloway's presentation, you will see that it's full of similar silly mistakes and therefore you could just as easily say "well, he's not an archaeologist". Ditto Shaw. 

Are they all comic relief or is something else going on?

OmegaZilla

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 22, 2022, 01:49:32 AMI am not a canon denier despite sharing my nerdy fetishes. You're right, and unless someone makes a serious retcon, David is the creator of the Alien and the Engineers are the Space Jockeys. Covenant is a cute gothic sci-fi movie and the Fassbender vs. Fassbender reminds me of the Jinsei bedroom from Mortal Kombat.  ;D
Thank you

of course, a lot of people can still do whatever and select the canon continuity for their own viewing

for example, Alien DC contradicts Aliens, therefore, it can be a logical argument to put it into its own continuity

examples of possible continuity branching (think Halloween) excluding AvP:

ALIEN DC - PROMETHEUS - COVENANT (linked by the use of spores; eggmorphing was never a thing)

ALIEN TC - ALIENS TC/DC - ALIEN3 TC/AC - RESURRECTION TC/DC - PROMETHEUS - COVENANT (PROMETHEUS and COVENANT gain stylistical points if RESURRECTION is included in the equation)


my personal canon timelines for the films depends on my mood but generally here goes

ALIEN DC - (THE DESTROYING ANGELS) (neither makes a single reference to a Queen caste)

ALIEN TC - ALIENS TC/DC (ALIEN DC can be conciliated with ALIENS in a vacuum, but not considering author intentions)

ALIEN TC - ALIENS TC/DC - ALIEN3 TC/DC (Ripley arc)
ALIEN: RESURRECTION TC/DC (French coda in an alternate universe where everything is Jeunet)

ALIEN TC - ALIENS TC/DC - ALIEN3 TC/DC - ALIEN: RESURRECTION (Ripley arc + French coda in an unrecognizable future wrapping Ripley's arc in a most unusual way)

SiL

I just like watching the movies.

OmegaZilla

Quote from: SiL on Jul 22, 2022, 02:02:07 AMI just like watching the movies.
I like watching them

alot

AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Patreon RSS Feed
Contact: General Queries | Submit News