Alien3: How did the egg get onboard the Sulaco?

Started by StayFrosty, Oct 30, 2011, 01:19:51 AM

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Alien3: How did the egg get onboard the Sulaco? (Read 76,206 times)

StayFrosty

I'm sure this has already been done to death, but here it goes...

The question of all questions,

How did the egg get on board the Sulaco, hence starting the events of Alien3?

My theory is a simpler one... a chestburster hitched a ride with the Queen onto the dropship (obviously this chestburster hatched from one of the Marines - probably Apone or Deitreich). The chestburster crawls off, grows into an adult Xenomorph, and then does some kind of egg-morphing thing, and puts the egg on the Sulaco. The Xenomorph could have morphed some food on the Sulaco into an egg, or perhaps a Warrior Xenomorph can grow one egg inside itself and then lay it. Or, it may have morphed into a Queen and this Queen was able to lay a few eggs. Whatever this Xenomorph was, it was left behind when the shuttle detaches from the Sulaco.

But, still a question. What made the egg open up and hatch the face hugger? Motion is required for this to happen. And on the side of things, why do the cryo chambers in Alien3 look different than they did in ALIENS? I'll have to watch the ending of ALIENS again, I think I remember the cryo chambers looked different at the end than they did at the beginning, so maybe they were in a different cryo room.

However, I get the feeling that the common answer around here will be that Bishop put the egg on the Sulaco. It does make sense. In Alien3 when Ripley plugs the broken droid in, Bishop seems disturbed by something. It's like he doesn't want Ripley to know he put the egg on the Sulaco, which is why he urges her to permanently disconnect him. He's afraid she'll force him to reveal how the egg got on board. Bishop did have plenty of time in ALIENS to have recovered an egg and put it aboard the Sulaco, in fact this likely would have occurred BEFORE the initial battle.

I also think it makes sense that the Facehugger in Alien3 was able to use two hosts, instead of dying after using one host. A facehugger carrying a Queen embryo is special. It impregnates someone with a regular Xenomorph, and that Xenomorph is born and prepares the way for the Queen, while that same Facehugger crawls off and impregnates someone with this Queen. A pretty good safety measure.


SahrsnTheRonin

Nice explanation though I personally....Dont wanna think of Bishop....as a "bad guy" lol....XD Though its plausible and actually does make sense, be interesting to hear what ppl think about the egg, and the requiring motion to hatch the facehugger is a very good point, that does open a few posibilities. Good job :)

Xenomrph

The explanation I always went with is that the Queen laid an egg (or two) in the landing gear, and then for whatever reason they just... hatched. It always made the most sense to me.

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#3
Jones put it here.

The Xenoborg

Isn't there a topic 'Egg on Sulaco' already?

I say it was the Queen. She already laid the egg while the dropship was returning to the mothership and she stuck it up the undetermined corridor, while the humans were inside. While she sensed that they were coming outside the ship, she quickly hid inside and injured herself. :laugh:

StayFrosty

Wow! You guys are usually quite educated, but I'm surprised you didn't know more about this one. On the IMDB boards, they've ripped this plot hole to shreds.

1) It doesn't make sense that the Queen on Sulaco can lay eggs. Her egg sack had been ripped from her. Her body is quite skinny, so it would take some time for her to produce an egg and force it out of her body. That time frame just doesn't exist in the movie. The Queen also came directly out of the dropship.... she had no time to run around the Sulaco and plant an egg, in fact Ripley, Bishop, and Newt would have seen the Queen do this. It doesn't fit with the Queen's biology that she can just force an egg out of her body without the sac attached.

2) The egg we see onboard the Sulaco in Alien3 is not on board the dropship.... it's on board the Sulaco itself.


The only good explanation is the Bishop explanation.... and what I said about the conversation between Bishop and Ripley in Alien3 seems to imply it. Bishop has to take orders from the company.... Burke was the company man. Bishop is an android and can't really think for himself. So he may have had to take the order to plant an egg on board, even if he didn't want to. But, problems arise here. There are only a couple limited timeframes Bishop had to retrieve an egg and plant it on the ship. And where exactly did he find this egg? That is quite a problematic question if he did this all before the Marines' first battle with the Xenomorph. They didn't know where the eggs were. The only other chance was when he was waiting for Ripley to find Newt and save her from being impregnated (when he was flying the drop ship while the facility was exploding - end of the movie). At this point, it is very possible he was able to find an egg. But the problem here is there just isn't enough time for him to fly to the Sulaco, plant the egg, and return to save Ripley and Newt.

It would make more sense if he just took one of the face huggers the colonists had locked away, and brought that to the Sulaco. But that's not what happened here since there is an EGG present on the Sulaco as well.

Another issue (although maybe one easier to answer), is how Bishop could retrieve an egg without causing it to hatch? And really.... why leave the egg out in the open where it could be discovered by Ripley, Newt, and Hicks? Why risk disrupting the crew's stasis on the way back to earth, when he just could have frozen the egg somewhere, so that when they arrive back on earth, the company can deal with it?

Too many questions in a movie full of plot-holes.

BTW, I just rewatched some scenes from ALIENS, and the cryo pods at the end are the same as in the beginning. There's some things I wanna check out regarding this in Alien3 tomorrow.

OmegaZilla

OmegaZilla

#6
In the original 'Egg on Sulaco' thread they've dissected this plot hole in its smallest parts. 26 pages! You can find it here.

The Xenoborg

How do you know that it was on the Sulaco itself?
The dropship could have had the name Sulaco on it too.

Bishop could have gone to take an egg while Ripley went inside to rescue Newt. When she returned, he wasn't there. He emerged from the lower levels of the facility, where Ripley just came from.
He might have taken an egg and stuck it at a place where the rest of the crew wouldn't really go. Like the weapons shaft.
Hicks was injured and all three of the humans would be in their hypersleeps.
Bishop was an android, so the facehugger would never attack him.

Or perhaps there could have been a sneaky Alien on board as well.
"Was there an Alien on board?
"Yes. It was there all the time."
A: CM says that there was a party of humans that arrives after the crew was in stasis. They had Alien specimens of their own but something goes wrong and they all end up dying (or facehugged). There is no Queen in Sulaco at the moment and one of the Aliens might have done the magic tricks of molting eggs into super facehugger eggs on one of the later-crew.
That facehugger than spits acid around and impregnates Ripley.
Revenge!

SiL

Quote from: StayFrosty on Oct 30, 2011, 09:50:32 AM
The only good explanation is the Bishop explanation....
"I cannot harm, nor by omission of action allow to come to a harm, a human being."

QuoteIt would make more sense if he just took one of the face huggers the colonists had locked away, and brought that to the Sulaco. But that's not what happened here since there is an EGG present on the Sulaco as well.
Also there were only two alive. And they both got wasted.

Aaand Burke didn't speak for the Company -- he was a representative, yes, but he was there solely to assess the situation. Otherwise he was flying solo.

QuoteBTW, I just rewatched some scenes from ALIENS, and the cryo pods at the end are the same as in the beginning. There's some things I wanna check out regarding this in Alien3 tomorrow.
The pods are different in A³. It was a creative decision by Fincher.

Quote from: The Xenoborg on Oct 30, 2011, 10:06:37 AM
The dropship could have had the name Sulaco on it too.
The dropship has a cockpit and a hold for the APC, both of which we see in Aliens, neither of which even vaguely look like a long pale-coloured corridor like we see in Alien³.

PsyKore

I like to think the Queen took an egg with her from the hive, one that didn't get burnt, and stuck it on her back for the journey to the Sulaco. It's bullshit of course, but it doesn't seem too far-fetched to me that she could piggyback one with her.

StayFrosty

Did anyone even bother to read my last post?

I'd really recommend reading some of the 26-page thread OmegaZilla linked to. The discussion there shows us there really is no answer.

The whole argument is fubar. After everything the Marines had gone through, it makes no sense that Ripley didn't do some kind of ship scan to make sure there were no other aliens on board, after the Queen had been eliminated. It would have been COMMON SENSE to scan the ship and look for invaders before going into hyper sleep.

QuoteI like to think the Queen took an egg with her from the hive, one that didn't get burnt, and stuck it on her back for the journey to the Sulaco. It's bullshit of course, but it doesn't seem too far-fetched to me that she could piggyback one with her.

Yes, part of that seems realistic. But the Queen had no time to take that egg and put it somewhere else on the Sulaco. In Alien3, the egg was definitely not on the drop ship. There are other problems with your theory too, but I won't go into them. Even if we assume the egg WAS on the dropship, the dropship would have been likely closed and sealed. So how did the face hugger get out? And most importantly, *what* made the egg open up in the first place?

Unless the egg was somewhere near the cryo room, the face hugger would have had to spit TONS of acid and open all these doors into order to get in there and impregnate Ripley. But still, no answer to why the egg opened in the first place.

Quote

"I cannot harm, nor by omission of action allow to come to a harm, a human being."

This doesn't matter in the least. When Bishop said that line, he was stating he cannot harm a human being on his own accord. But he is a *robot*. He has to taken orders from *someone*. He is property of the *company*. There is no reason to believe that Bishop, a robot, has freewill.

What would Bishop do if say, Hudson went A-WOL and started trying to stab Newt? What if the only way to stop Hudson from doing this, was to harm Hudson? By your logic, Bishop wouldn't be able to do anything, because he cannot harm a human being. You're taking his words out of context.

Plus, what if Bishop was lying that he cannot harm a human being? What if he was just saying what the company wanted to say to shut Ripley up?

I do believe Bishop cared about Ripley, the crew, and humanity in general. But he still does not have freewill, and he has to obey orders. He worked for a greedy, manipulative company that did not care about Ripley, the crew, or humanity.

Even if Bishop was property of the military, and not the company directly, he still could have been reprogrammed *before* the Marines sent out on the journey to LV-426.

QuoteAlso there were only two alive. And they both got wasted.

Aaand Burke didn't speak for the Company -- he was a representative, yes, but he was there solely to assess the situation. Otherwise he was flying solo.

Ok, you are right about the two face huggers being killed. But we saw from Burke's actions later in the film that he was willing to do ANYTHING to bring the alien back. We don't know how Bishop may have been reprogrammed before the Marines came to LV-426.

Either way, you may be right. If that's the case, then that just further exposes this plot-hole in Alien3, because the Bishop answer is really the best one.

QuoteThe pods are different in A³. It was a creative decision by Fincher.

I don't understand why the directors blatantly put these plot-holes into the movie. What were his reasons for making this creative decision?

I suppose it makes sense that the cryo tubes slid into different casing on board the Sulaco's shuttle (we see this happening at the beginning of Alien3), but I believe it showed them on board the Sulaco *before* they slid into the shuttle, so it still doesn't make sense.

Quote
Bishop could have gone to take an egg while Ripley went inside to rescue Newt. When she returned, he wasn't there. He emerged from the lower levels of the facility, where Ripley just came from.
He might have taken an egg and stuck it at a place where the rest of the crew wouldn't really go. Like the weapons shaft.
Hicks was injured and all three of the humans would be in their hypersleeps.
Bishop was an android, so the facehugger would never attack him.

There wasn't enough time for Bishop to do all that when Ripley was rescuing Newt. I agree he could have grabbed an egg within this time frame and hid it aboard the shuttle, but there was no time to hide it on the Sulaco itself. It's already been stated here that the egg was *not* on board the shuttle when we see it in Alien3. And I've already raised further questions about this, like how the egg itself opened up, or how the face hugger would be able to get off the shuttle.

If Bishop did just hide the egg on board the shuttle, there was no time for him to take it and hide it somewhere on board the Sulaco. Bishop is attacked and decimated by the Queen as soon as the shuttle returns.

QuoteA: CM says that there was a party of humans that arrives after the crew was in stasis. They had Alien specimens of their own but something goes wrong and they all end up dying (or facehugged). There is no Queen in Sulaco at the moment and one of the Aliens might have done the magic tricks of molting eggs into super facehugger eggs on one of the later-crew.
That facehugger than spits acid around and impregnates Ripley.
Revenge!

Who's CM?

This theory is just silly. It's been covered before, like in the 26 pages that have already been discussed in the other thread. Even if another party had recovered alien eggs, it makes no sense that they'd just bring them to the Sulaco, hide them there, and hope everything plays out the way they want it to. If the company recovered eggs, they would be studying them in their own labs. There would be no reason to bring them to the Sulaco, especially hide them there and then leave. There are so many problems with this theory it's not even worth going into. Plus, in Alien3 Bishop says the Alien was with them ALL THE WAY.... as in, as soon as they left LV-426.


Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#11
Quote
1) It doesn't make sense that the Queen on Sulaco can lay eggs. Her egg sack had been ripped from her. Her body is quite skinny, so it would take some time for her to produce an egg and force it out of her body. That time frame just doesn't exist in the movie. The Queen also came directly out of the dropship.... she had no time to run around the Sulaco and plant an egg, in fact Ripley, Bishop, and Newt would have seen the Queen do this. It doesn't fit with the Queen's biology that she can just force an egg out of her body without the sac attached.
We don't know that the egg sac is a requirement, and there could very well have been enough time for the Queen to crank out an egg on the trip up to the Sulaco. We see an egg inside the Sulaco somewhere, but it's also implied that the opening to 'Alien3' could be a dream sequence on Ripley's part. It's also implied that what we're seeing is not in chronological order - it's meant to be disorienting, both for the audience and for Ripley. Really the only "reliable" thing you can take from the opening is the stuff Ripley learns *after* waking up:
- there was an Alien onboard
- there was a fire, the cryopods got ejected
- she got facehugged at some point
- Hicks and Newt died in the crash

The blu-ray menu actually addresses it by putting the egg in the dropship's landing gear.

QuoteAfter everything the Marines had gone through, it makes no sense that Ripley didn't do some kind of ship scan to make sure there were no other aliens on board, after the Queen had been eliminated. It would have been COMMON SENSE to scan the ship and look for invaders before going into hyper sleep.
Alternately, she may have simply been so exhausted (and her friends were wounded) and she just needed to let the adrenaline die down. Makes plenty of sense that she'd have overlooked doing a shipwide scan, especially after she just ejected a Queen out of the airlock using a mechanical loader.

QuoteUnless the egg was somewhere near the cryo room, the face hugger would have had to spit TONS of acid and open all these doors into order to get in there and impregnate Ripley. But still, no answer to why the egg opened in the first place.
Assuming it would have had to open any doors in the first place. As for why it opened, perhaps it just... opened. I really don't have a problem with that, to be honest.

QuoteThis doesn't matter in the least. When Bishop said that line, he was stating he cannot harm a human being on his own accord. But he is a *robot*. He has to taken orders from *someone*. He is property of the *company*.
He's actually USCM property - the Marines all knew him and had served with him before. And even when taking orders, the First Law overrides that.

QuoteWhat would Bishop do if say, Hudson went A-WOL and started trying to stab Newt? What if the only way to stop Hudson from doing this, was to harm Hudson? By your logic, Bishop wouldn't be able to do anything, because he cannot harm a human being. You're taking his words out of context.
He'd likely have to make a judgment call, but that's an extreme case. That doesn't mean he'd knowingly endanger the characters by putting an Alien egg or two onboard the Sulaco. Doing so would violate the First Law.

QuoteHe worked for a greedy, manipulative company that did not care about Ripley, the crew, or humanity.
As mentioned, the entire project was Carter Burke's doing. If anyone were to reprogram Bishop, it would have had to have been him (assuming he could have gotten to him).

Quotehe still could have been reprogrammed *before* the Marines sent out on the journey to LV-426.
But to assume that is circular reasoning. You're assuming he's reprogrammed so you can use it as evidence that he planted the eggs, but the only way to justify him planting the eggs is to say he's been reprogrammed. That's circular.

Lost Predator

I mean from a quick POV, the Queen brought it on somehow. But if she did, then she didn't have enough time to secretly plant it somelace where no one would see it. The most logical and sensible place she had any realistic time to plant the egg is in the dropship, which needless to say isn't where the egg is shown in Alien 3.

But for a logical POV, the best theory is Bishop or another xeno somehow planted the egg. Bishop could have lied about how long it took for the dropship to arrive, took some time (maybe a different egg nursry?) to grab an egg, hide it in the dropship, then go resuce Ripley and the others.

I personally don't like to think of Bishop as a bad guy. But if we believe he has no freewill, then he is just being used for bad purposes.


Xenomrph

QuoteThe most logical and sensible place she had any realistic time to plant the egg is in the dropship, which needless to say isn't where the egg is shown in Alien 3.
This assumes we take what we see in the opening of 'Alien3' literally, which may not be the case. As mentioned, the blu-ray shows the egg in the dropship's landing gear.

StayFrosty

Well from what I've read all over the net, on IMDB, forums, and in that 26-page thread, this all is just more reason for me to disregard Alien3 (and thus, Resurrection) as canon. I sure hope if another Alien movie is made, it does not follow Ripley after the events of Resurrection. I'd prefer a new Alien franchise to begin, with entirely different characters. They could easily forget the derelict as well, and find some eggs on another planet, and completely ignore the continuity of the four films we have.

Likewise, I don't know why it was so hard to come up with a good Alien3 script. So I hear, 3/4 out of the scripts that were created involved some egg magically appearing on the Sulaco. They could have done something with alien eggs being discovered on some other planet, and Ripley being involved. My Alien3 idea is to have Ripley, Hicks, Bishop and Newt return to Earth. Perhaps they are all good friends, or even a family. Several years after they return to earth, the company arrives with some eggs they've recovered from some planet. Everything goes out of control, as usual, and the aliens begin to take over a futuristic earth. Ripley (Hicks, Newt, Bishop) naturally gets involved, due to her prior knowledge on the alien.

Actually, come to think of it, what if Ripley, Hicks, Newt and Bishop did return to Earth, and the company scans the Sulaco, and finds Alien DNA aboard the ship from the Queen, and clones it? The characters and their clothing could have been covered in alien DNA, due to their encounters with the aliens.

Alien3 is really quite boring and not really entertaining. I don't really need it.

I'm entirely surprised there are no EU theories about how the egg got on board. Doesn't the EU have anything to say about this?

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