What was your first reaction when you found out Shaw had been killed of ( either online or in the movie )
I'll admit I was pretty gutted. It's the second time the alien franchise did this along with Newt.
They were both such sweet natured innocent characters.
I say Shaw's had a bigger reaction from me, mostly because of the tease we got at the end of Prometheus, " my name is Elisabeth Shaw, and I'm still searching " suggesting her part was far from over.
And then also because it was David who did it, whom I felt shared a connection with her all the way back to Prometheus.
But what do you guys think?
Unsurprised.
Kind of disappointed at first. I wanted to see her get her camuffins on screen.
However I wouldn't wish Newts write off on a broke-dick dog.
Both seemed clumsy.
Newt's demise is particularly annoying as it seemingly changed the rules re facehuggers.
I wasn't really bothered about Newts death because she was surplus to requirements in Alien 3, it was Ripleys story and Newts death was part of that brutal story.
I was overjoyed they got shot of Shaw though.
Both cases really bothered me and were the work of terrible writing. Whenever you kill off a major character off-screen, it's a sign of terrible writing.
Hicks and Newt were all about them teleporting eggs, while Shaw was all about trusting David and him "loving" her despite them not even liking each other in Prometheus and Shaw not even wanting to take David with her.
I really like Shaw as a character - her determination, her belief that answers could be found.
She found herself in a position with no one left to help her besides David. There is such a rich and interesting story to be unpacked from their time on Paradise, and David even alludes to some of it in the Advent short film. I would have loved to see Shaw watching David become more and more unstable, watch as she tries to figure out a way to survive his increasingly overt attraction to her etc. That could have been a fear and tension filled sequence of events, all taking place on a world that is foreign, eerie, and filled with the bodies of people David has killed.
Although, with how they left it in the film, it leaves a lot to the imagination, and I find myself almost writing scenes about what happened. And in some ways, that is the fun of not knowing everything. It feels creepier than knowing it all.
So, Shaw's death got under my skin for sure. And the way her body appeared, the obvious experimentation...I just kept asking myself "What happened, Shaw? When did you know that you weren't going to survive?"
I wouldn't say I was disappointed, but I did think Shaw was a good character, better than Daniels. I don't know why she gets flack, she did a pretty damn good job. She acted excited at the prospect of new life and frightened at the prospect of dying. More than can be said of the drones in Covenant.
Newt was just a victim of a crappy script. I'd rather they worked her out of it another way.
After seeing Covenant, my mother's reaction was "killing Shaw was just like the Marine and little girl dying in Alien 3." I thought that was funny.
They were the reasons why I wanted to watch the sequels. I was very disappointed that I wouldn't see much of them in those sequels. All that wait for nothing.
Disappointed.
Just expected her part to be a little bigger.
Would've loved to see David and her arrive in a lost paradise and do some exploring.
Newt's death gets me more.
She's a kid. Innocent. Happy.
Both were so groan inducing and lazy. Why am I investing in the characters in these movies.
Having Hicks and Newt die at the beginning of Alien 3 was good because it immediately told the audience that this wasn't going to be a remake of ALIENS.
Shaw's death didn't bother me because David is a much better character.
Aliens wasn't a remake of Alien because it had Ripley returning.
If you have to kill off important characters that aren't yours in order to "make your mark" then you're just amazingly uncreative. It's not "punk rock".
He inherited a responsibility and he shirked it.
I think Shaw maybe should have had some time before being killed.
I felt Hicks and Newt, though, had a really good send off and it was fitting for Alien 3's style.
Neither of them shocked me though - it just seems normal for the Alien series. There's many other characters I've liked that have been tragically killed.
F that
Both were killed as cost cutting measures. Not for the Story.
Newt and Hicks should of been frozen in hyper sleep for the entire film only to wake after Ridley Sacrifices herself.
I never got attached to Shaw. She cried and complained a lot for a Scientist/Doctor/interplanetary voyager. Plus the Summer Teen sex comedy romp to get her into a sweaty white tank top...oh man. Get it out get it out! Lol.
I vote for Shaw/Noomi Rapace.
I never cared for Newt or Hicks. Never understood their popularity.
Hix and Nut had one of the best funerals on film.
:-*
That scene was worth the price of their death.
Adult Newt would have been played by Winona Ryder, but instead she played Call which is an alt-Newt.
Newt's death was way more of a burden to bear. The sadness and that feeling of being alone and TOTALLY f**ked doesn't compare to Shaw's death in Covenant. Though, I thought Shaw's demise was still quite disturbing considering her final outcome.
Shaw's dead? Wait, let me check my emotion chip...nope, nothing there. Who's Shaw again?
I was saddened by Newts death and angered by Shaw's. I have grown to be okay with Newt dying (seeing as she avoided all the pain that would have come from surviving) but Shaw had more potential and I wanted to see her get some answers. I wanted the answers Shaw wanted and her death only kept us away from getting any.
I'm now looking at these deaths as examples of how ruthless the Alien universe is and how no one is safe. The fact that these characters are killed off screen adds to the overall nihilistic tone that the universe sets up. Though we may like these characters and want to see them continue on, they can be easily killed off and the story must continue on. It's ruthless and fitting as these movies are about the Alien and not any character that we become fond of.
Quote from: Space7Horror on Oct 23, 2017, 05:25:17 PM
I was saddened by Newts death and angered by Shaw's. I have grown to be okay with Newt dying (seeing as she avoided all the pain that would have come from surviving) but Shaw had more potential and I wanted to see her get some answers. I wanted the answers Shaw wanted and her death only kept us away from getting any.
I'm now looking at these deaths as examples of how ruthless the Alien universe is and how no one is safe. The fact that these characters are killed off screen adds to the overall nihilistic tone that the universe sets up. Though we may like these characters and want to see them continue on, they can be easily killed off and the story must continue on. It's ruthless and fitting as these movies are about the Alien and not any character that we become fond of.
I thought it would've been cool if Shaw got answers and sorta went mad because of them, before she met here demise.
Like a character in a H.P. Lovecraft story that's not able to cope with the forbidden knowledge.
Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Oct 23, 2017, 05:59:40 PM
Quote from: Space7Horror on Oct 23, 2017, 05:25:17 PM
I was saddened by Newts death and angered by Shaw's. I have grown to be okay with Newt dying (seeing as she avoided all the pain that would have come from surviving) but Shaw had more potential and I wanted to see her get some answers. I wanted the answers Shaw wanted and her death only kept us away from getting any.
I'm now looking at these deaths as examples of how ruthless the Alien universe is and how no one is safe. The fact that these characters are killed off screen adds to the overall nihilistic tone that the universe sets up. Though we may like these characters and want to see them continue on, they can be easily killed off and the story must continue on. It's ruthless and fitting as these movies are about the Alien and not any character that we become fond of.
I thought it would've been cool if Shaw got answers and sorta went mad because of them, before she met here demise.
Like a character in a H.P. Lovecraft story that's not able to cope with the forbidden knowledge.
Yah it would have been cool to see her get the answers she was seeking but they are completely different from what she had anticipated. It's a shame we will never get to see her finish her journey. It would have been interesting seeing her unable to cope with the answers she finds and maybe they would have led to her demise eventually.
Honestly, I wasn't particularly fussed about Shaw's death. I wasn't really interested in her as a character. I'm still a bit bummed out we've not had something more detailing the events between Prometheus and Covenant but that's more an interest in the story and David than anything to do with Shaw.
Now Hicks and Newt's death...love it. Absolute gut punch and I still love that Alien 3 did that to us. The funeral scene is one of, if not the, best scenes in the series for me.
Quote from: PsyKore on Oct 21, 2017, 08:19:37 AM
I think Shaw maybe should have had some time before being killed.
I felt Hicks and Newt, though, had a really good send off and it was fitting for Alien 3's style.
Neither of them shocked me though - it just seems normal for the Alien series. There's many other characters I've liked that have been tragically killed.
I agree with that. Their deaths were coherent in regard to what atmosphere Fincher was trying to create in Alien 3. A dark, moody, depressed one, where warm and positive elements like that for ripley can't fit.
Newts death is more effective because we get that legitimate autopsy scene from it. The brutality of that scene alone shows more horror than Ridely Scott was able to generate in the entire scope of Alien Covenant.
Quote from: Ash 937 on Oct 28, 2017, 03:06:28 PM
Newts death is more effective because we get that legitimate autopsy scene from it. The brutality of that scene alone shows more horror than Ridely Scott was able to generate in the entire scope of Alien Covenant.
I totally agree with this too, this scene was brilliant, and served the purpose i mentioned.
Quote from: Ash 937 on Oct 28, 2017, 03:06:28 PM
Newts death is more effective because we get that legitimate autopsy scene from it. The brutality of that scene alone shows more horror than Ridely Scott was able to generate in the entire scope of Alien Covenant.
Is it impossible to feature an autopsy scene of a character that died during the natural progression of the story? Why was it necessary to kill her off-screen in order to have an autopsy scene? Wouldn't that autopsy scene have been even more horrific had Newt died due to legitimate reasons earlier on?
Both are examples of terrible writing and poor franchise direction.
I think it's highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it's just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn't/didn't want to/wasn't happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it's damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there's more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it's not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen
Quote from: David Weyland on Nov 01, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
I think it's highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it's just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn't/didn't want to/wasn't happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it's damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there's more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it's not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen
I imagine she would have been under contract to proceed.
Moreover, I imagine the prospect of "Shaw & David meet the Engineers" would have been a tough sell. Only David speaks their language, which itself would have needed to be subtitled. That just ain't gonna fly.
Quote from: Rudiger on Nov 02, 2017, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: David Weyland on Nov 01, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
I think it's highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it's just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn't/didn't want to/wasn't happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it's damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there's more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it's not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen
I imagine she would have been under contract to proceed.
Moreover, I imagine the prospect of "Shaw & David meet the Engineers" would have been a tough sell. Only David speaks their language, which itself would have needed to be subtitled. That just ain't gonna fly.
Agreed. No studio would risk a film like that.
Quote from: David Weyland on Nov 01, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
I think it's highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it's just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn't/didn't want to/wasn't happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it's damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there's more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it's not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen
Seeing how Luke Scott shot several shorts for their viral campaign, instead of doing that, Fox could have authorized an abridged 'David and Shaw' story short of 20-40 mins were we see them leaving LV-223, what happens in their arrival, their exploration of the planet, they discover Engineer survivors were she gets her answers though in the same time realizes David nuked the planet, confronts David leading to her downfall. They could have attached the short before the film started or included as a special feature in the blu-ray for all of us to at least have some closure with that aspect of the story.
They could still do this for Awakening. Instead of trying to answer every question left hanging from Prometheus and Covenant into one movie, do the short for her and David, leaving Awakening to focus on David and his reign on Origae-6 with his creation and the battle that will lead to his downfall by the Engineers. Fox if your reading this, take the idea. Won't charge you for it.
Quote from: 0321recon on Nov 02, 2017, 02:48:18 PM
Quote from: David Weyland on Nov 01, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
I think it's highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it's just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn't/didn't want to/wasn't happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it's damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there's more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it's not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen
Seeing how Luke Scott shot several shorts for their viral campaign, instead of doing that, Fox could have authorized an abridged 'David and Shaw' story short of 20-40 mins were we see them leaving LV-223, what happens in their arrival, their exploration of the planet, they discover Engineer survivors were she gets her answers though in the same time realizes David nuked the planet, confronts David leading to her downfall. They could have attached the short before the film started or included as a special feature in the blu-ray for all of us to at least have some closure with that aspect of the story.
They could still do this for Awakening. Instead of trying to answer every question left hanging from Prometheus and Covenant into one movie, do the short for her and David, leaving Awakening to focus on David and his reign on Origae-6 with his creation and the battle that will lead to his downfall by the Engineers. Fox if your reading this, take the idea. Won't charge you for it.
I would be totally fine if they did this. All we need a quick 20-30 min short on what happened with some of our questions being answered to tie up loose ends. This could have the way for the next movie and it would have a stronger basis as the short could strengthen both Prometheus and mainly Covenant.
Quote from: David Weyland on Nov 01, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
I think it's highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it's just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn't/didn't want to/wasn't happy with the money to carry on the role....
The fact she was in The Crossing means it wasn't all about the money. She couldn't have been paid much for that brief appearance.
More likely is, she just isn't a box office draw. When Prometheus came out, she was still a newcomer, had been in a few big movies and had won critical notice for Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. But now she's a has been in hollywood. That's just how they work unfortunately.
Quote from: Space7Horror on Nov 03, 2017, 12:27:07 AM
Quote from: 0321recon on Nov 02, 2017, 02:48:18 PM
Quote from: David Weyland on Nov 01, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
I think it's highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it's just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn't/didn't want to/wasn't happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it's damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there's more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it's not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen
Seeing how Luke Scott shot several shorts for their viral campaign, instead of doing that, Fox could have authorized an abridged 'David and Shaw' story short of 20-40 mins were we see them leaving LV-223, what happens in their arrival, their exploration of the planet, they discover Engineer survivors were she gets her answers though in the same time realizes David nuked the planet, confronts David leading to her downfall. They could have attached the short before the film started or included as a special feature in the blu-ray for all of us to at least have some closure with that aspect of the story.
They could still do this for Awakening. Instead of trying to answer every question left hanging from Prometheus and Covenant into one movie, do the short for her and David, leaving Awakening to focus on David and his reign on Origae-6 with his creation and the battle that will lead to his downfall by the Engineers. Fox if your reading this, take the idea. Won't charge you for it.
I would be totally fine if they did this. All we need a quick 20-30 min short on what happened with some of our questions being answered to tie up loose ends. This could have the way for the next movie and it would have a stronger basis as the short could strengthen both Prometheus and mainly Covenant.
Exactly. I'm shocked Fox didn't go for this route. Seems they didn't realize the backlash they would have from those who liked Shaw.
Seeing David's lab of horrors we see a dissected Engineer. You could make a story of Shaw and this engineer.
We could begin with the entire 12 minutes crossing sequence of David and Shaw in the ship until she goes into hypersleep. Then, David wakes her eight to nine years after their initial arrival. David tells her the world was already wiped out. Shaw feels something is not right when she notices the silo open, and the entire payload missing. She goes to explore the planet, trying to find what happened.
In the forest, she comes across three survivors. They fear her, though shows she's not going to harm them. They ask why did she nuke their planet, she's shocked by the allegations. Shaw tells them she was only seeking answers to her questions found in LV-223. Here, the engineers reveal that her companion destroyed the planet several years back. With a small device they show her the bombing. She's horrified by this. While this transpires two of the engineers get infected by the spores.
Fearing David, she stays with them. However, David has being following her from afar. They tell her of a plan to kill David, lift the shields on the planet, and try to escape. When, suddenly two of the engineers get severely sick. David appears out of no where. Shaw is horrified by him and what's occurring to the engineers. David calmly tells her what's going to occur when two neos are born. David prevents the neo from attacking her and the engineer. He gives her the choice to replenish the planet and become his eve? she spits at him. David sicks the neos on her and the engineer. Both run for dear life rushing across the forest towards the underground base were the ships are. The neos attack them, one of them killing the engineer. Shaw is about to be killed by when David stops the neo, and slams her to the ground. He injects her with a sedative mixed with the pathogen. She quietly moans as her head begins to mutate, he carries her back to the temple.
Quote from: 0321recon on Nov 03, 2017, 01:58:34 AM
Quote from: Space7Horror on Nov 03, 2017, 12:27:07 AM
Quote from: 0321recon on Nov 02, 2017, 02:48:18 PM
Quote from: David Weyland on Nov 01, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
I think it's highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it's just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn't/didn't want to/wasn't happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it's damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there's more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it's not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen
Seeing how Luke Scott shot several shorts for their viral campaign, instead of doing that, Fox could have authorized an abridged 'David and Shaw' story short of 20-40 mins were we see them leaving LV-223, what happens in their arrival, their exploration of the planet, they discover Engineer survivors were she gets her answers though in the same time realizes David nuked the planet, confronts David leading to her downfall. They could have attached the short before the film started or included as a special feature in the blu-ray for all of us to at least have some closure with that aspect of the story.
They could still do this for Awakening. Instead of trying to answer every question left hanging from Prometheus and Covenant into one movie, do the short for her and David, leaving Awakening to focus on David and his reign on Origae-6 with his creation and the battle that will lead to his downfall by the Engineers. Fox if your reading this, take the idea. Won't charge you for it.
I would be totally fine if they did this. All we need a quick 20-30 min short on what happened with some of our questions being answered to tie up loose ends. This could have the way for the next movie and it would have a stronger basis as the short could strengthen both Prometheus and mainly Covenant.
Exactly. I'm shocked Fox didn't go for this route. Seems they didn't realize the backlash they would have from those who liked Shaw.
Seeing David's lab of horrors we see a dissected Engineer. You could make a story of Shaw and this engineer.
We could begin with the entire 12 minutes crossing sequence of David and Shaw in the ship until she goes into hypersleep. Then, David wakes her eight to nine years after their initial arrival. David tells her the world was already wiped out. Shaw feels something is not right when she notices the silo open, and the entire payload missing. She goes to explore the planet, trying to find what happened.
In the forest, she comes across three survivors. They fear her, though shows she's not going to harm them. They ask why did she nuke their planet, she's shocked by the allegations. Shaw tells them she was only seeking answers to her questions found in LV-223. Here, the engineers reveal that her companion destroyed the planet several years back. With a small device they show her the bombing. She's horrified by this. While this transpires two of the engineers get infected by the spores.
Fearing David, she stays with them. However, David has being following her from afar. They tell her of a plan to kill David, lift the shields on the planet, and try to escape. When, suddenly two of the engineers get severely sick. David appears out of no where. Shaw is horrified by him and what's occurring to the engineers. David calmly tells her what's going to occur when two neos are born. David prevents the neo from attacking her and the engineer. He gives her the choice to replenish the planet and become his eve? she spits at him. David sicks the neos on her and the engineer. Both run for dear life rushing across the forest towards the underground base were the ships are. The neos attack them, one of them killing the engineer. Shaw is about to be killed by when David stops the neo, and slams her to the ground. He injects her with a sedative mixed with the pathogen. She quietly moans as her head begins to mutate, he carries her back to the temple.
This easily work as a horror as well, the complete and utter fear Shaw would feel as she explores the now decimated planet of her creators. They really could have played on her emotions through the short while answering many lingering questions and giving us, the audience a satisfying end to Shaw's story. And it would be a cool thing to see surviving engineers which would show just hat David was hunting them down and killing them for experiments. It would really fit into the poster for the movie with the engineers being wiped out by aliens.
And how many millions would this 30 minute short cost?
Proper storytelling gets done in the cinema, not on youtube or as an extra.
Quote from: Rudiger on Nov 03, 2017, 09:30:58 PM
And how many millions would this 30 minute short cost?
Proper storytelling gets done in the cinema, not on youtube or as an extra.
Hey now, stop insulting Blomkamp's current career.
Quote from: Space7Horror on Nov 03, 2017, 09:01:59 PM
Quote from: 0321recon on Nov 03, 2017, 01:58:34 AM
Quote from: Space7Horror on Nov 03, 2017, 12:27:07 AM
Quote from: 0321recon on Nov 02, 2017, 02:48:18 PM
Quote from: David Weyland on Nov 01, 2017, 08:46:27 PM
I think it's highly simplistic to just criticise the writing for why Shaw was killed off
I think it's just as possible that perhaps Naomi Rapace couldn't/didn't want to/wasn't happy with the money to carry on the role....for all we know it's damn lucky we got The Crossing or that there's more of her story to tell in the next one somewhere but the point ive seen lacking here is it's not always bad scriptwriting that makes these things happen
Seeing how Luke Scott shot several shorts for their viral campaign, instead of doing that, Fox could have authorized an abridged 'David and Shaw' story short of 20-40 mins were we see them leaving LV-223, what happens in their arrival, their exploration of the planet, they discover Engineer survivors were she gets her answers though in the same time realizes David nuked the planet, confronts David leading to her downfall. They could have attached the short before the film started or included as a special feature in the blu-ray for all of us to at least have some closure with that aspect of the story.
They could still do this for Awakening. Instead of trying to answer every question left hanging from Prometheus and Covenant into one movie, do the short for her and David, leaving Awakening to focus on David and his reign on Origae-6 with his creation and the battle that will lead to his downfall by the Engineers. Fox if your reading this, take the idea. Won't charge you for it.
I would be totally fine if they did this. All we need a quick 20-30 min short on what happened with some of our questions being answered to tie up loose ends. This could have the way for the next movie and it would have a stronger basis as the short could strengthen both Prometheus and mainly Covenant.
Exactly. I'm shocked Fox didn't go for this route. Seems they didn't realize the backlash they would have from those who liked Shaw.
Seeing David's lab of horrors we see a dissected Engineer. You could make a story of Shaw and this engineer.
We could begin with the entire 12 minutes crossing sequence of David and Shaw in the ship until she goes into hypersleep. Then, David wakes her eight to nine years after their initial arrival. David tells her the world was already wiped out. Shaw feels something is not right when she notices the silo open, and the entire payload missing. She goes to explore the planet, trying to find what happened.
In the forest, she comes across three survivors. They fear her, though shows she's not going to harm them. They ask why did she nuke their planet, she's shocked by the allegations. Shaw tells them she was only seeking answers to her questions found in LV-223. Here, the engineers reveal that her companion destroyed the planet several years back. With a small device they show her the bombing. She's horrified by this. While this transpires two of the engineers get infected by the spores.
Fearing David, she stays with them. However, David has being following her from afar. They tell her of a plan to kill David, lift the shields on the planet, and try to escape. When, suddenly two of the engineers get severely sick. David appears out of no where. Shaw is horrified by him and what's occurring to the engineers. David calmly tells her what's going to occur when two neos are born. David prevents the neo from attacking her and the engineer. He gives her the choice to replenish the planet and become his eve? she spits at him. David sicks the neos on her and the engineer. Both run for dear life rushing across the forest towards the underground base were the ships are. The neos attack them, one of them killing the engineer. Shaw is about to be killed by when David stops the neo, and slams her to the ground. He injects her with a sedative mixed with the pathogen. She quietly moans as her head begins to mutate, he carries her back to the temple.
This easily work as a horror as well, the complete and utter fear Shaw would feel as she explores the now ddescimatez planet of her creators. They really could have played on her emotions through the short while answering many lingering questions and giving us, the audience a satisfying end to Shaw's story. And it would be a cool thing to see surviving engineers which would show just hat David was hunting them down and killing them for experiments. It would really fit into the poster for the movie with the engineers being wiped out by aliens.
Exactly. Killing two birds with one stone. We show how demented David has become in hunting the surviving engineers for his diabolic experiments and in the same time demonstrating David's true intentions towards Shaw. In the point of view of Shaw, she gets the answers that she was seeking at the cost of her and the engineers lives.
Quote from: Rudiger on Nov 03, 2017, 09:30:58 PM
And how many millions would this 30 minute short cost?
Proper storytelling gets done in the cinema, not on youtube or as an extra.
I agree that proper storytelling belongs in the cinema, however seeing how the franchise finds itself at the moment, its the next best thing to do since a lot of the questions asked in Prometheus were left hanging.
As for the cost of the short, having gone to film school it could be made in the cheap if they shot the majority of this in a large forest to save the cost of the sets. For the sets themselves, just build small sections of juggernaut such as hyper-sleep chamber, the hallway and the silo (shot these sequences with a mediums or close ups) For the engineers since its going to be only three, we could put some money on their prosthetics to match them with what we saw in Prometheus. Finally, try to use man in a suit for the two neos. Saving whatever money is left for the device showing the bombing sequence.
They could shot this as third unit while Awakening is being filmed.
The problem with Shaw's death is the problem with the entire Prometheus run thus far. The entire series has been ill conceived. The creative objectives therein have been all over the map. There is no real sense of cohesion in the characters or the story. We go here, do this, go here, do that. Character's have no distinct motivation. The only reason David rises above that is because he's at least somewhat more focused, has more character going on, and he's being played brilliantly by Fassbender.
I hate the death of Newt and Hicks, and I hated it even without having seen Aliens. However, however, I will say this. I think it has more artistic and creative merit and actually resonates in a big way inside of Alien 3. It moves and affects Ripley in a bigger way than Shaw's death does in Covenant.
The motivations of Shaw, Holloway, Vickers and Janek are pretty distinctive.
Disappointed with Shaw. Is like we lost a movie between Prometheus and Covenant and took the movie equivalent of Skyrim "fast travel" to a place not so interesting as what the Prometheus ending was hinting.
Quote from: SM on Nov 30, 2017, 03:50:40 AM
The motivations of Shaw, Holloway, Vickers and Janek are pretty distinctive.
True, that.
And I'd add that Janek's motivations, driven by his past experience with SNAFUs like the engineers', would be very interesting to hear. It opens up the Alien universe just a little wider.
I think Newt's death is far more emotionally powerful than Shaw's; not only because Newt sort of replaced Ripley's deceased daughter, but also because she's a completely innocent character and way more fragile than others since she's a kid. It begs the question wether they should have left her 'unmarked' or chop her up instead...as they did. Anyway, the shots where she is lying on the table and you see the shadows of the surgical instruments pass over her closed eyes or when Ripley is checking her mouth always get to me. Shaw's death was like: 'well, here she is'. No drama whatsoever.
Shaw all the way. Newt is overrated as a character. She is basically a plot device in Aliens. A 'damsel in distress' to gain the audience's sympathy and cheer on the hero. Her funeral scene in Alien 3 ironically made her more of a complete character than the entirety of the previous film.
Quote from: Snake on Dec 10, 2017, 02:55:18 AM
I think Newt's death is far more emotionally powerful than Shaw's; not only because Newt sort of replaced Ripley's deceased daughter, but also because she's a completely innocent character and way more fragile than others since she's a kid. It begs the question wether they should have left her 'unmarked' or chop her up instead...as they did. Anyway, the shots where she is lying on the table and you see the shadows of the surgical instruments pass over her closed eyes or when Ripley is checking her mouth always get to me. Shaw's death was like: 'well, here she is'. No drama whatsoever.
Some people say Newt's autopsy is in bad taste, but it was definitely gut-wrenching to watch, probably more so because from Ripley's POV it was only moments ago that they were both going to hypersleep.
But for all the flak Alien 3 gets, I really feel it did give a terrific and respectful send off for Hicks and Newt during the funeral. Writing out the characters that way - killing them off in the opening credits - may be a cheap method, but it wasn't like they were just ignored. I thought it was well done.
I definitely agree that Shaw's had no drama, which was disappointing.
Quote from: PsyKore on Dec 10, 2017, 08:50:08 AM
Some people say Newt's autopsy is in bad taste,
Well. It's a horror movie. For adults.
I'm not entirely sure why some people go
to a horror movie and expect to be coddled...
Quote from: skhellter on Dec 10, 2017, 08:56:07 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Dec 10, 2017, 08:50:08 AM
Some people say Newt's autopsy is in bad taste,
Well. It's a horror movie. For adults.
I'm not entirely sure why some people go
to a horror movie and expect to be coddled...
Probably because it's a child. I can respect it may be crossing the line for some, even though I think it fits well for the ruthless nature of the Alien series.
Quote from: skhellter on Dec 10, 2017, 08:56:07 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Dec 10, 2017, 08:50:08 AM
Some people say Newt's autopsy is in bad taste,
Well. It's a horror movie. For adults.
I'm not entirely sure why some people go
to a horror movie and expect to be coddled...
This isn't how life works.
Quote from: skhellter on Dec 10, 2017, 08:56:07 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Dec 10, 2017, 08:50:08 AM
Some people say Newt's autopsy is in bad taste,
Well. It's a horror movie. For adults.
I'm not entirely sure why some people go
to a horror movie and expect to be coddled...
Probably because of the broader audience Aliens appealed to e.g. soccer moms.
Quote from: Scorpio on Dec 10, 2017, 03:15:13 AM
Shaw all the way. Newt is overrated as a character. She is basically a plot device in Aliens. A 'damsel in distress' to gain the audience's sympathy and cheer on the hero. Her funeral scene in Alien 3 ironically made her more of a complete character than the entirety of the previous film.
I agree.
Quote from: tleilaxu on Dec 10, 2017, 05:21:53 PM
Quote from: skhellter on Dec 10, 2017, 08:56:07 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Dec 10, 2017, 08:50:08 AM
Some people say Newt's autopsy is in bad taste,
Well. It's a horror movie. For adults.
I'm not entirely sure why some people go
to a horror movie and expect to be coddled...
Probably because of the broader audience Aliens appealed to e.g. soccer moms.
:laugh:
I never had a problem with the autopsy, even as a kid. Oh it's uncomfortable and it made me somewhat sick to my stomach, but how it's handled in the story, really adds to the trauma that Ripley is suffering. Not enough that Newt died, but that she may have been a host, and having to see her cut into like that. Ugh. Weaver does a great job in that scene, as always.
The autopsy was done about as tastefully as such a scene could be done. There's no lingering wide shots with Newt's guts hanging out. It's all close ups, and quick cuts, and Ripley's response conveys sorrow rather than shock, along with Clemens reluctance. Even the shots of bloody instruments are tempered by the fact they're not being used on anyone that's alive.
Quote from: PsyKore on Dec 10, 2017, 09:02:17 AM
Probably because it's a child. I can respect it may be crossing the line for some, even though I think it fits well for the ruthless nature of the Alien series.
Poor adults, they get no respect. If a child is being mutilated, a gush of empathy ensues, but if it's an adult or even older teenager, too bad so sad, mutilate, amputate, hack, and stab to their heart's delight. :laugh:
I once saw a sticker on the back of a car that read "Adults on board, we want to live too". :laugh:
Quote from: PsyKore on Dec 11, 2017, 02:11:04 AM
I once saw a sticker on the back of a car that read "Adults on board, we want to live too". :laugh:
Can't say I've ever seen that. Good one!
Whatever happened to women and children first?
Newt (and Hicks)? Blessed relief, got Alien3 off to a promising start.
Shaw? Made David a more interesting, complex character so whilst I'd like to know what went down I think her 'use' makes the story that stems from the themes in Prometheus all the better.