Genetic Aberrations, Revisiting The Predator - AvP Galaxy Podcast #95

Started by Corporal Hicks, Oct 21, 2019, 05:36:02 AM

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Genetic Aberrations, Revisiting The Predator - AvP Galaxy Podcast #95 (Read 19,798 times)

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 22, 2019, 07:13:38 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Oct 21, 2019, 10:12:02 PM
Alien works best is when the human characters are normal, grounded regular men and women.  Predator works best when the humans are opposite of that, i.e. more exaggerated, larger than life, comic book like characters. The Loonie acrors on their own were fine, but they had no business being in a Predator film in my humble opinion.

Give the Loonies actors to Alien Resurrection and give the Alien Resurrection actors to The Predator and only 99 more fixes to go to fix both movies.  :)

I can't agree with that. Predator doesn't "need" exaggerated characters to work well. I say it all the time - Predator is such a versatile series. It doesn't need a formula to work.

Hey, you're quoting a word I didn't say.  I said "works best", I didn't say "need".  :P

In regards to formula, Xenomorphine was mentioning formula in this very podcast... that you have to make a "Predator film" that the Predator is a weapons specialist not a Hulk and it should finish the movie going mano e mano with one or two heroes . But me saying Predator works best when the humans are more exaggerated, larger than life, comic book like characters is not restricting at all if you consider that a formula - and it's a loose one at that. You still can write any story you want and convey any emotion you want including fear and sorrow with larger than life exaggerated humans.

QuoteThat said, I don't think the Loonies were particularly grounded. I couldn't envision them working in an Alien film.

That's why I kept saying the "actors", not the characters.  :) I don't believe the Loonies belong in an Alien film either.  But the Loonie actors to me are character actors, and they are more suited for an Alien film. Boyd Holbrook should have been a red shirted officer at the most in a Predator film imo. Larger than life Ron Perlman as the protagonist on the otherhand, is more suited for Predator in my eyes.

It's like if I had Brie Larson and Ronda Rousey to use as protagonists in a new Alien and Predator film. Unless it's Colonial Marines, it doesn't even require thought. Academy Award winning Brie goes to Alien and Championship Athlete Ronda Rousey to Predator, and that choice works best for both franchises. Plus Rhonda will appear like a helluva oponent to a Predator! :)

Alien Antagonist:


Predator Antagonist:



Corporal Hicks

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Oct 22, 2019, 01:13:39 PM
Hey, you're quoting a word I didn't say.  I said "works best", I didn't say "need".  :P

In regards to formula, Xenomorphine was mentioning formula in this very podcast... that you have to make a "Predator film" that the Predator is a weapons specialist not a Hulk and it should finish the movie going mano e mano with one or two heroes . But me saying Predator works best when the humans are more exaggerated, larger than life, comic book like characters is not restricting at all if you consider that a formula - and it's a loose one at that. You still can write any story you want and convey any emotion you want including fear and sorrow with larger than life exaggerated humans.

Granted, you weren't as absolute as "need", but I still disagree. I don't think you can do exaggerated humans as successfully now as when the first film came out. It just doesn't feel as right to me. But that's just my take on that.

QuoteThat's why I kept saying the "actors", not the characters.  :)

Yeah, that's my bad.

Kradan

f**king finally !!!  ;D

Seriously though, It's pretty sad to me that movie only went down for you guys . I still enjoy it and gonna rewatch it but understand there's some big flaws with it . For me it's now what's Requiem for RidgeTop . I'll never agree it's as bad though .

P.S. Still hoping for Isolation's walkthrough and 5th anniversary podcast. That should be great !


Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 22, 2019, 02:08:52 PM
Granted, you weren't as absolute as "need", but I still disagree. I don't think you can do exaggerated humans as successfully now as when the first film came out. It just doesn't feel as right to me. But that's just my take on that.

Hmm. That's interesting. For these fans of this genre of film, I think the exaggeration in Predator and Predator 2 is thought of more fondly than ever. Much like Shane Black's The Nice Guys brought back the buddy cop movie, I think it would not only work but be embraced in the nostalgic mania of today. That would be my bet at least. 

Wysps

Quote from: Kradan on Oct 22, 2019, 05:05:25 PM
f**king finally !!!  ;D

Seriously though, It's pretty sad to me that movie only went down for you guys . I still enjoy it and gonna rewatch it but understand there's some big flaws with it . For me it's now what's Requiem for RidgeTop . I'll never agree it's as bad though .

P.S. Still hoping for Isolation's walkthrough and 5th anniversary podcast. That should be great !

Not sure about which one's worse atm, but I will say that my disappointment for The Predator is just as great as for Requiem :-\  Maybe even more so, since I had much higher expectations for The Predator.

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Oct 22, 2019, 01:13:39 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 22, 2019, 07:13:38 AM
QuoteThat said, I don't think the Loonies were particularly grounded. I couldn't envision them working in an Alien film.

That's why I kept saying the "actors", not the characters.  :) I don't believe the Loonies belong in an Alien film either.  But the Loonie actors to me are character actors, and they are more suited for an Alien film. Boyd Holbrook should have been a red shirted officer at the most in a Predator film imo. Larger than life Ron Perlman as the protagonist on the otherhand, is more suited for Predator in my eyes.

I seem to recall that James Franco was considered an option for Boyd's character.  I may be completely misremembering this bit of information, or maybe it wasn't "official", but if I am remembering it correctly, do you think he would have been a better choice?  I find the characters in Predator films to be so animated in how they speak, carry themselves, etc.  Even when they're "reserved" (i.e. Brody), they're not.  Boyd's character just seemed kind of...bland in particular.  I don't know if it just boils down to how he was written or how he brought the character to life. And I think that goes for some of the other cast - was it the writing or the acting that made the characters fall flat?

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Wysps on Oct 23, 2019, 07:33:27 PM
I seem to recall that James Franco was considered an option for Boyd's character.  I may be completely misremembering this bit of information, or maybe it wasn't "official", but if I am remembering it correctly, do you think he would have been a better choice?

Maybe? Slightly? Neither would be my preference.

To me, with Predator, the ideal situation is to have the lead actor to have gravitas. One with that je ne sais quoi quality that performs a bit over-the-top. While casting, decide that acting comes secondary to charisma. Charisma is tops. Like why Arnold Schwarzenegger was cast as Conan back in 1982, but to a lesser degree.

It's like the cast of 300 which made Gerald Butler an above-the-title star. Its easy to get muscle bound men, and some of them can even act better than Gerald.



But make acting secondary and find someone that the camera loves with a slight over-the-top performance that can chew scenery. That should be priority in my opinion.



QuoteI find the characters in Predator films to be so animated in how they speak, carry themselves, etc.  Even when they're "reserved" (i.e. Brody), they're not.  Boyd's character just seemed kind of...bland in particular.  I don't know if it just boils down to how he was written or how he brought the character to life. And I think that goes for some of the other cast - was it the writing or the acting that made the characters fall flat?

I think writing can have an effect to a degree, but I put it squarely on the shoulder of Boyd i.e. casting.  Remember when Boyd says something to the effect of "touch me again and I'll break your neck".  Now imagine Jesse Ventura saying that line. Or Sonny Landham. Or Ron Perlman. It changes right? It improves? Less flat, right? A million people can act better than Jesse, but top acting is not what's required here.

No, Shane Black didn't have that gravitas in Predator (which makes sense why he died first). No Ruben Blades didn't have that gravitas in Predator 2 (which makes sense why he died first).  But when the whole entire cast less one doesn't have it in a Predator film, that one being Sterling K. Brown in The Predator, you have a severe casting problem in my opinion.  :)

Xiggz456

Ridgetop mentioned needing to have a drink in order to "enhance" the viewing experience and I couldn't agree more  :laugh:

My wife and I actually made a drinking game back in November when the film was released digitally. The rules basically make fun of the film's tropes. Some rules include:

Drink every time It's mentioned that McKenna is a sniper/killer

Drink every time Olivia Munn says something science-y

Drink every time Rory figures out predator tech

Drink every time the loonies crack a joke

Etc. there's a few more rules that I can't remember but we wrote them down so maybe I'll start a new thread with all the rules if people are interested lol. But it does make the movie more fun this way haha.

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Xiggz456 on Oct 24, 2019, 02:03:22 PM
Ridgetop mentioned needing to have a drink in order to "enhance" the viewing experience and I couldn't agree more  :laugh:

My wife and I actually made a drinking game back in November when the film was released digitally. The rules basically make fun of the film's tropes. Some rules include:

Drink every time It's mentioned that McKenna is a sniper/killer

Drink every time Olivia Munn says something science-y

Drink every time Rory figures out predator tech

Drink every time the loonies crack a joke

Etc. there's a few more rules that I can't remember but we wrote them down so maybe I'll start a new thread with all the rules if people are interested lol. But it does make the movie more fun this way haha.

That's a lot of drinking!  I'd be surprised to hear you both haven't passed out before the movie ended! :laugh:

EVILthePREDATOR

Voodoo do you think a serious take on predator is the way out of the hole the franchise has found itself in?

EVILthePREDATOR

For some reason my comment never registered so I'll have to write it again.

IMO Predator will remain broken until the directors stop pushing the cheesy throw backs and comedy. Which isn't even funny!

Iv said this a thousand times, the original predator film was never intended to be a comedy. Sure it had over the top jokes in it, but as Dutch and his team realize the gravity of their situation. The jokes dry up rather rapidly. 

Now.

I believe predator was a product of its time. Vietnam was still fresh on people's minds. It had a lot to say about the culture of the 80s at that point.

Consider this, isn't it time for a predator film to say something about our times now? In a world where war is rapidly rising and terrorism is rife. Isn't this the perfect backdrop to do something interesting and original?

Be it the Middle East, Mexico or even Brazil take your pick. They all have extreme brutality happening in those places. Predator would be perfect for that kind of environment.

I think the next film needs to take risks, be intelligent, dark, horrifying and mature. Made for adults by adults. I want to feel the true awe and horror of what a predator is about.

Just interested in hearing everyone's views on this.

I repeat this is ONLY my opinion.




Xiggz456

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Oct 24, 2019, 02:51:38 PM
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Oct 24, 2019, 02:03:22 PM
Ridgetop mentioned needing to have a drink in order to "enhance" the viewing experience and I couldn't agree more  :laugh:

My wife and I actually made a drinking game back in November when the film was released digitally. The rules basically make fun of the film's tropes. Some rules include:

Drink every time It's mentioned that McKenna is a sniper/killer

Drink every time Olivia Munn says something science-y

Drink every time Rory figures out predator tech

Drink every time the loonies crack a joke

Etc. there's a few more rules that I can't remember but we wrote them down so maybe I'll start a new thread with all the rules if people are interested lol. But it does make the movie more fun this way haha.

That's a lot of drinking!  I'd be surprised to hear you both haven't passed out before the movie ended! :laugh:

:laugh: Oh ya we got all faded! We drink Michelob Ultra (cuz we count calories) it's only like 4% alcohol so nothing too heavy. But do not try playing this with hard alcohol or you will die lol.

@evilthepredator I agree that a more serious take would be preferred after this one. If they want humor it should be dark humor not punchlines.

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: Xiggz456 on Oct 24, 2019, 02:03:22 PM
Drink every time It's mentioned that McKenna is a sniper/killer

The line "I'm a sniper, just get me close" f**ks me off every time.

Xiggz456

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 24, 2019, 05:37:59 PM
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Oct 24, 2019, 02:03:22 PM
Drink every time It's mentioned that McKenna is a sniper/killer

The line "I'm a sniper, just get me close" f**ks me off every time.

Lol it's really ridiculous how many times it's mentioned!

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: EVILthePREDATOR on Oct 24, 2019, 03:18:43 PM
Voodoo do you think a serious take on predator is the way out of the hole the franchise has found itself in?

To me? Definitely. And get back to basics!  Go back to only one single Predator hunter again. After two movies, no more Predator vs Predator this time around.

Quote from: EVILthePREDATOR on Oct 24, 2019, 03:33:30 PM
For some reason my comment never registered so I'll have to write it again.

IMO Predator will remain broken until the directors stop pushing the cheesy throw backs and comedy. Which isn't even funny!

Iv said this a thousand times, the original predator film was never intended to be a comedy. Sure it had over the top jokes in it, but as Dutch and his team realize the gravity of their situation. The jokes dry up rather rapidly. 

Now.

I believe predator was a product of its time. Vietnam was still fresh on people's minds. It had a lot to say about the culture of the 80s at that point.

Consider this, isn't it time for a predator film to say something about our times now? In a world where war is rapidly rising and terrorism is rife. Isn't this the perfect backdrop to do something interesting and original?

Be it the Middle East, Mexico or even Brazil take your pick. They all have extreme brutality happening in those places. Predator would be perfect for that kind of environment.

I think the next film needs to take risks, be intelligent, dark, horrifying and mature. Made for adults by adults. I want to feel the true awe and horror of what a predator is about.

Just interested in hearing everyone's views on this.

I repeat this is ONLY my opinion.


The middle east sounds appealing to me. Maybe the final showdown can take place with the protagonist luring the Predator into the desert. No trees. No buildings. No cover.  Just him, and me.

EVILthePREDATOR

@ voodoo Magic.

I really like where you're going with that. Could definitely work! Totally!

I also think it needs to go back to basics with a reimagining of the character. And absolutely it should be just one predator.

Now by no means am I blood thirsty. But predator skins people etc, and that's a hunter playing by the rules. Imagine what a bad predator is capable of.  We need to see it happen as it's in context and brings home, how heinous this creature actually is. Gore is part an parcel of this characters make up. I don't want to see another dumbed down movie aimed at teens.

I want to come out of the cinema horrified after what this ancient alien hunter is capable of, yet at the same time fascinated by its mystery.

I like the idea of a rogue predator that's not playing by the normal rules and has revenge on its mind, what ever that may be. Perhaps in a flash back sequence we find out why. (Revenge for the original creatures death perhaps?)

I don't know 🤷‍♂️

All I know is the next film needs to be aimed at over 18s.

And it will be probably be its last chance to get it right, before Hollywood gives up on the property entirely.

Let's hope who ever directs again, they take a hard look at what went wrong. So mistakes are not repeated.

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