(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn3-www.comingsoon.net%2Fassets%2Fuploads%2Fgallery%2Falien-covenant%2Falien-covenant-1280.jpg&hash=1b5c4fcc0b102d76bff4188acf01238ed46f4f1c)
Quote The man who kickstarted the Alien franchise lifts the lid on the latest installment.
Ridley Scott is back in the director's chair for his third Alien film - and he's described Covenant as a "joining up" of 2012's Prometheus and the 1979 original.
Scott told Digital Spy that Covenant - out May 19, 2017 - is a "multi-layered" tale "with some great characters".
"I saw Alien finally succumb after four films, then they also did Alien vs. Predator, after which I thought, 'Uh-oh, that's it' - but then I waited a couple of years, I went back and decided to resurrect it," he explained.
"No-one actually asked where they came from in the three subsequent movies, which is kind of ridiculous," he said. "That's why good writers are good writers, because they'll ask a basic question like that and make that into a scenario.
"So we did Prometheus - that heaved it off the ground - and Covenant is a follow-through to Prometheus. So we now know who created this, and why, and the next one's a joining up of the storyline. It touches on mortality, immortality and the real question of who created us and why."
Scott told us that both Prometheus and Covenant were inspired by his own beliefs and speculation on the origins of the human race.
"We're not just a random biological accident," he insisted. "For you and I to be sitting here right now [by accident] would take trillions of correct decisions to be made randomly by nature, which of course is ridiculous.
"I think there's some kind of decision being made. I believe in a higher force - if we want to call it God, then it's God."
http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/alien/news/a817799/alien-covenant-prometheus-sequel-ridley-scott-spoilers/ (http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/alien/news/a817799/alien-covenant-prometheus-sequel-ridley-scott-spoilers/)
"Who created US and why."
Music to my ears. There was too much talk about who created the XENOMORPHS and not enough about HUMANITY.
Now that's what I want to hear!!!! :)
Very intriguing. :)
Thanks Himmel. I'll get this posted.
It wouldn't surprise me if, once all is over, it turns out that the real aliens in Scott's Universe are us.
-Windebieste.
Thank the almighty; I love what I'm hearing.
So first off, the engineers made the alien and they made it to wipe us the f**k out.
Also I have no problems with him wanting to make the creation of the human race an act of another being. This is a story after all about what could be out there. I mean hell, you never know right.
Quote from: windebieste on Dec 31, 2016, 12:21:17 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if, once all is over, it turns out that the real aliens in Scott's Universe are us.
-Windebieste.
Indeed.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 12:29:26 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Dec 31, 2016, 12:21:17 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if, once all is over, it turns out that the real aliens in Scott's Universe are us.
-Windebieste.
Indeed.
I'm not to sure about that. I mean something or someone created us from Engineer dna. Scott straight up states that much. How would that make us alien to this universe? Unless some other-realm being is our true creator.
In any case he says A:Covenant will show us our creator and why we were created. Which actually now that I think about it, taking what he says literally, then that means the engineers are not our creator. They are simply the Alien's creator.
4chan guy said we ll not going to learn anything new about Engineers
or about those philosophical questions and Ridley now says we
actually will learn something new... ??? :P ???
That 4chan guy made me very confused.
The 4chan guy was bs, the crashed juggernaut is enough proof of that.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 31, 2016, 12:38:47 AM
The 4chan guy was bs, the crashed juggernaut is enough proof of that.
Hear, hear!
Hmm. So Ridley is saying the "next one" as in the film he makes AFTER Covenant? That would mean Covenant isn't touching on mortality and immortality and who created us, right? It would be the third film that joins the storylines together?
Also makes me think Peter Weyland will play a bigger role than expected given the immortality part.
Might not strictly be related to Weyland. Or the Engineers.
We could very well be aliens on our own World as it is.*
We've upset the natural balance of the World we live on. We've driven species to extinction (plants and animals). We can't live without shelter that we must construct for ourselves. We are affected adversely by solar radiation... The list goes on. Maybe we don't come from Earth. Maybe we were seeded here..?
There's so many indicators that we are not natural to this world. Scott may be right. Maybe the Engineers did create us. Maybe we are the real aliens here, especially within the Universe he is bringing to life.
Maybe Scott is the real Prometheus here by trying to take fire and light to give his cinematic creation life. lol.
-Windebieste.
*I am framing this response within the context of 'PROMETHEUS'.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 31, 2016, 12:38:47 AM
The 4chan guy was bs, the crashed juggernaut is enough proof of that.
I hope you're right. I really do.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 31, 2016, 12:38:47 AM
The 4chan guy was bs, the crashed juggernaut is enough proof of that.
How so? Consensus seems to be his spoilers are legit.
There is no consensus, how can we agree about
something we do not know? Its all hearsay.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 12:56:26 AM
There is no consensus, how can we agree about
something we do not know? Its all hearsay.
True - it's possible he saw the screened footage and made up the rest. But there are other people online who have corroborated much of it. They could, of course, all be lying as well. Not super far fetched.
But doesn't Hicks also have on good authority that the spoilers were correct?
Yes, Hick confirmed the validity of that but how can we be so sure when
there are contradictory facts constantly popping up. Those fact simply are not
in alignment with 4chan guys statements. Hicks is reliable but he is not
a Covenant scriptwriter, his sources could be misleading him or whatever.
Maybe 4chan guy was right about few thing but not about complete movie...
Who knows, I wont believe until I see the movie.
Quote from: shawsbaby on Dec 31, 2016, 12:53:08 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 31, 2016, 12:38:47 AM
The 4chan guy was bs, the crashed juggernaut is enough proof of that.
How so? Consensus seems to be his spoilers are legit.
To the trailers yea, but everything else we don't know yet. However the guy says that David bombs Paradise in the opening... well it looks quite clear that the Juggernaut crash lands instead. Something he entirely omitted because he never saw the film. I thought it true at first because I thought Hicks knew someone who saw the rough cut but that was incorrect information. What Ridley's telling us and what that person said isn't adding up.
Quote from: windebieste on Dec 31, 2016, 12:47:46 AM
We could very well be aliens on our own World as it is.*
We've upset the natural balance of the World we live on. We've driven species to extinction (plants and animals). We can't live without shelter that we must construct for ourselves. We are affected adversely by solar radiation... The list goes on. Maybe we don't come from Earth. Maybe we were seeded here..?
There's so many indicators that we are not natural to this world. Scott may be right. Maybe the Engineers did create us. Maybe we are the real aliens here, especially within the Universe he is bringing to life.
Maybe Scott is the real Prometheus here by trying to take fire and light to give his cinematic creation life. lol.
-Windebieste.
*I am framing this response within the context of 'PROMETHEUS'.
Hey, it's us man. 8)
Plus that could and would actually work well with Ridley's own self stated beliefs. There's a problem though in that the engineers only enhanced evolution through their DNA donation, Scott's words. In some of the cuts the elder engineer tells the deadman he hopes they will find their way back home. I always assumed that was back to them and not somewhere else. Then again if we were seeded than that surely means back to "somewhere else".
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 01:03:05 AM
Yes, Hick confirmed the validity of that but how can we be so sure when
there are contradictory facts constantly popping up. Those fact simply are not
in alignment with 4chan guys statements.
Which facts specifically are you referring to? I'd LOVE for the 4chan to be total BS since I spoiled it for myself ;-)
Amazing; that was exactly what I wanted to hear. I hope these themes are a big part of the film.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 31, 2016, 01:04:04 AM
Quote from: shawsbaby on Dec 31, 2016, 12:53:08 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 31, 2016, 12:38:47 AM
The 4chan guy was bs, the crashed juggernaut is enough proof of that.
How so? Consensus seems to be his spoilers are legit.
To the trailers yea, but everything else we don't know yet. However the guy says that David bombs Paradise in the opening... well it looks quite clear that the Juggernaut crash lands instead. Something he entirely omitted because he never saw the film. I thought it true at first because I thought Hicks knew someone who saw the rough cut but that was incorrect information. What Ridley's telling us and what that person said isn't adding up.
Quote from: windebieste on Dec 31, 2016, 12:47:46 AM
We could very well be aliens on our own World as it is.*
We've upset the natural balance of the World we live on. We've driven species to extinction (plants and animals). We can't live without shelter that we must construct for ourselves. We are affected adversely by solar radiation... The list goes on. Maybe we don't come from Earth. Maybe we were seeded here..?
There's so many indicators that we are not natural to this world. Scott may be right. Maybe the Engineers did create us. Maybe we are the real aliens here, especially within the Universe he is bringing to life.
Maybe Scott is the real Prometheus here by trying to take fire and light to give his cinematic creation life. lol.
-Windebieste.
*I am framing this response within the context of 'PROMETHEUS'.
Hey, it's us man. 8)
Plus that could and would actually work well with Ridley's own self stated beliefs. There's a problem though in that the engineers only enhanced evolution through their DNA donation, Scott's words. In some of the cuts the elder engineer tells the deadman he hopes they will find their way back home. I always assumed that was back to them and not somewhere else. Then again if we were seeded than that surely means back to "somewhere else".
Okay - this makes sense now re: the Juggernaut crashing and what David supposedly does from the ship not quite adding up.
Quote from: shawsbaby on Dec 31, 2016, 01:04:31 AM
Which facts specifically are you referring to? I'd LOVE for the 4chan to be total BS since I spoiled it for myself ;-)
Well obvious fact - Juggernaut crashed on the planet; He mentioned that David bombed engineers with the goo why omitting the fact that he crashed just moments after the act of bombing. He described that very well, yet he somehow forgot to mention that crash.... MORE THAN SUSPICIOUS if you ask me.
4chan guy said we ll not learn anything new about Engineers while Ridley just said totally different story. Even Wayne Haag spoke about Engineers technology and how we ll learn much more about that than the ultimate origins of the Aliens. Wayne mentioned that the doors for ultimate interpretations of their origins will remain opened.
4chan guy said Philosophy will not be so present like in Prometheus except that prologue scene with David and Weyland and thats about philosophy. Now Ridley again spoke differently.
Full transcription of 4chan guys words...
THUS SPOKE 4CHAN GUY ;D :D
Spoiler
QuoteHere it is:
-Main character is Katherine Waterston's Daniels but Billy Crudup, Danny McBride, and both androids get good screen time
-I liked it fine, it was pretty spooky/intense when they first arrive on the Engineer planet and the ending sequence. As a Prometheus sequel, people might get upset. They explain what happened to the Engineers and the mummified corpses you see in set pics but there's not too much followed up on apart from the setting and black goo stuff.
-Shaw is only in flashbacks when David finds the Covenant crew on the planet. She's dead before the movie begins and she sent the beacon the Covenant ship tracks to the planet.
-The Neomorphs are spooky and burst out of a guys back and another ones throat. They run on all fours at first then stand upright later on. They also have fang teeth and two spike things on their back they can shoot.
-I guess the only new monsters are the Neomorphs and some wildlife that has changed due to black goo exposure.
-Score in the rough cut was the original Alien 1979 score, they said the OST wasn't done.
-Sort of, he plays it straight this time (regarding characters) as an Alien film. Though some of the characters are generic like Prometheus.
-Engineer planet is not populated by anyone except David. It's pretty much Earth-like but with crazy storms. You get to see the Engineer citadel and the city left behind.
-No, it's the wildlife on the Engineer home world called Paradise. They are spores that send out an airborne version of the black goo basically when triggered. Those cause the Neomorphs
-(would you say the characters are comparable to Alien?) I wish I could. Honestly, there are only a couple characters I really liked but the whole cast wasn't memorable like Alien. Walter is great, Danny McBride's character Tennesse was cool, and Daniels.
-(How big is the budget?)
Doesn't seem like it's too big, somewhere around 120-150.
-Not that I remember, maybe a fly or something.
-Daniels is good, she reminds me of Ripley in the first Alien. Similar arc.
-David is a straight up villain yes. He's got a creepy shop of horrors underneath the Engineer citadel set up that you can see in pics I've posted in thread. Brownish looking room with failed experiments. Basically he *beep* over the Covenant crew when he finds them so he can use them for Xeno experiments. Also he doesn't like Walter.
-When David first tells the crew of Covenant what happened to Shaw, he claims she died when the Jockey ship crashed on the planet. Later we find out David killed her or exposed her to black goo for testing.
-The atmosphere and general tone felt the most like the original yeah, but also a bit of the intensity of Aliens because theres more than one creature running around.
-Ending was fine. I was a little confused, but it does set up a sequel.
-She (daniels) doesn't start off a badass but grows along the way
Posted Image
-Engineer planet is pic related, they move through the forest and David finds them. From there they go to Engineer city and citadel. That's basically the location the whole movie.
-David saves the Covenant crew from a Neomorph attack in the forest and brings them to the Engineer citadel which is basically his home. He *beep* over the crew and gets people killed because he doesn't care about humans and wants to experiment.
-It's 10 years after Prometheus, David has been there the whole time. The Engineer planet was exposed to the black goo and it has affected the environment.
-David is able to somewhat communicate with the Neomorphs and wants to protect them
-The Neomorphs are the main creature up until the 3rd act. David is able to lure a character into his egg room and exposes them to a classic facehugger. This spawns the Proto-Xenomorph. It's not the classic one we know, but the closest to it. It is more animal in nature.
-It was just under 2 hours (runtime) I think. Rough cut looked good. Mostly practical stuff, real sets and on location filming. Just like Prometheus.
-It is more violent than Prometheus. The Neomorph bursting scene alone is more violent than that movie.
-Cinematography, set design, costumes, and everything looked great. I liked the locale of this film more. The forest setting was more interesting than the dull desert of Prometheus imo
-The Proto Xeno is basically like the Runner in Alien 3, but looks like the one from 1979 movie. Looked pretty cool, but a lot of the CGI wasn't finished on it.
-Deacon does not make an appearance
-I felt the pacing was a little off, and it moved fast in places but I guess those are my only complaints
-The Engineers are gone, at least on their home planet. David wipes them out.
-David creates a Proto Xenormorph by exposing someone to a classic facehugger, but it's not exactly the one we know. I guess he's responsible for the facehugger.
-Shaw is dead and David "dies" off screen
-The only stuff that was claustrophobic was the last 15 mins or so when they get back on the Covenant. My favorite action sequence was the Neomorph bursting scene that happens shortly after they land on Paradise, really intense. Also the Covenant stuff at the end was cool.
-Color tone of the movie I'm not sure how to answer. It was set on a planet with wildlife and Engineer structures.
- the Engineers are barely in the movie apart from corpses
-(philosophical and religious themes present?)Not much apart from the prologue with Weyland and David vs Walter later on
-Inside the Covenant, lighting was like some of the images I posted earlier with McBride and Ridley on the bridge. Blue ish with some corridors being grey and red.
-Space suits are closer to original film, bigger and not the bubble helmet design from Prometheus
-It ends with Tennesse and Daniels going back into cryo sleep for the long journey to their original destination before receiving beacon at Paradise. Walter closes their pods and goes down to the colonist bay wheres theres 2 thousand grown colonists and 1,300 embryos or something. Turns out he snuck two Proto Xeno embryos on the ship and puts them with the human embryos. He skips away and movie ends.(this one maybe false)
-David "dies" of screen after fight with Walter towards the end, Walter fights him because he tries to kill Daniels and Walter finds out David has been screwing them over the whole time.
-Shaw reattaches David's head during the flight to Paradise with David's help.
-I was confused by that myself. The whole film Walter seems to not like David screwing around with the Xenos or black goo then at the end it seems he has a change of heart.
-Proto Xeno is the result of David's experiments or at least the facehugger is.
-The crew have WY patches on their gear so I'm guessing in the 10 years between this and Prometheus, the merger happened.
-We unfortunately don't learn anything new about them. When the Juggernaut ship David and Shaw are in arrives at Paradise, David positions the ship above the Engineer citadel. Thousands of Engineers look up in the sky confused, then David unleashes the full cargo hold of black goo containers and it wipes out all of them. The corpses are mummified.
-The Covenant is massive and stays in a low orbit. The ship in these pics is a small drop ship the exploration team takes.
Posted Image
-When David takes out the Engineers, Shaw is still asleep in one of the cryo pods on the Juggernaut. She goes in there and tells David to wake her up when they arrive. David does it behind her back. "To create, one must first destroy."
-At the end, a Proto Xeno is on board the Covenant. Daniels and Tennesse fight it and she has on the space suit, it's bulky(maybe false).
In 2017, the followers of Sagardoa began persecuting the heretical followers of 4chan guy... :laugh:
;D
This excites me. I actually liked the spoilers, honestly, but was bummed I'd read them at all. This makes me hopeful for a fresh experience.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 01:11:36 AM
Quote from: shawsbaby on Dec 31, 2016, 01:04:31 AM
Which facts specifically are you referring to? I'd LOVE for the 4chan to be total BS since I spoiled it for myself ;-)
Well obvious fact - Juggernaut crashed on the planet; He mentioned that David bombed engineers with the goo why omitting the fact that he crashed just moments after the act of bombing. He described that very well, yet he somehow forgot to mention that crash.... MORE THAN SUSPICIOUS if you ask me.
4chan guy said we ll not learn anything new about Engineers while Ridley just said totally different story. Even Wayne Haag spoke about Engineers technology and how we ll learn much more about that than the ultimate origins of the Aliens. There will be open doors for ultimate interpretations of their origins.
Full transcription of 4chan guys fords...
THUS SPOKE 4CHAN GUY ;D :D
Spoiler
QuoteHere it is:
-Main character is Katherine Waterston's Daniels but Billy Crudup, Danny McBride, and both androids get good screen time
-I liked it fine, it was pretty spooky/intense when they first arrive on the Engineer planet and the ending sequence. As a Prometheus sequel, people might get upset. They explain what happened to the Engineers and the mummified corpses you see in set pics but there's not too much followed up on apart from the setting and black goo stuff.
-Shaw is only in flashbacks when David finds the Covenant crew on the planet. She's dead before the movie begins and she sent the beacon the Covenant ship tracks to the planet.
-The Neomorphs are spooky and burst out of a guys back and another ones throat. They run on all fours at first then stand upright later on. They also have fang teeth and two spike things on their back they can shoot.
-I guess the only new monsters are the Neomorphs and some wildlife that has changed due to black goo exposure.
-Score in the rough cut was the original Alien 1979 score, they said the OST wasn't done.
-Sort of, he plays it straight this time (regarding characters) as an Alien film. Though some of the characters are generic like Prometheus.
-Engineer planet is not populated by anyone except David. It's pretty much Earth-like but with crazy storms. You get to see the Engineer citadel and the city left behind.
-No, it's the wildlife on the Engineer home world called Paradise. They are spores that send out an airborne version of the black goo basically when triggered. Those cause the Neomorphs
-(would you say the characters are comparable to Alien?) I wish I could. Honestly, there are only a couple characters I really liked but the whole cast wasn't memorable like Alien. Walter is great, Danny McBride's character Tennesse was cool, and Daniels.
-(How big is the budget?)
Doesn't seem like it's too big, somewhere around 120-150.
-Not that I remember, maybe a fly or something.
-Daniels is good, she reminds me of Ripley in the first Alien. Similar arc.
-David is a straight up villain yes. He's got a creepy shop of horrors underneath the Engineer citadel set up that you can see in pics I've posted in thread. Brownish looking room with failed experiments. Basically he *beep* over the Covenant crew when he finds them so he can use them for Xeno experiments. Also he doesn't like Walter.
-When David first tells the crew of Covenant what happened to Shaw, he claims she died when the Jockey ship crashed on the planet. Later we find out David killed her or exposed her to black goo for testing.
-The atmosphere and general tone felt the most like the original yeah, but also a bit of the intensity of Aliens because theres more than one creature running around.
-Ending was fine. I was a little confused, but it does set up a sequel.
-She (daniels) doesn't start off a badass but grows along the way
Posted Image
-Engineer planet is pic related, they move through the forest and David finds them. From there they go to Engineer city and citadel. That's basically the location the whole movie.
-David saves the Covenant crew from a Neomorph attack in the forest and brings them to the Engineer citadel which is basically his home. He *beep* over the crew and gets people killed because he doesn't care about humans and wants to experiment.
-It's 10 years after Prometheus, David has been there the whole time. The Engineer planet was exposed to the black goo and it has affected the environment.
-David is able to somewhat communicate with the Neomorphs and wants to protect them
-The Neomorphs are the main creature up until the 3rd act. David is able to lure a character into his egg room and exposes them to a classic facehugger. This spawns the Proto-Xenomorph. It's not the classic one we know, but the closest to it. It is more animal in nature.
-It was just under 2 hours (runtime) I think. Rough cut looked good. Mostly practical stuff, real sets and on location filming. Just like Prometheus.
-It is more violent than Prometheus. The Neomorph bursting scene alone is more violent than that movie.
-Cinematography, set design, costumes, and everything looked great. I liked the locale of this film more. The forest setting was more interesting than the dull desert of Prometheus imo
-The Proto Xeno is basically like the Runner in Alien 3, but looks like the one from 1979 movie. Looked pretty cool, but a lot of the CGI wasn't finished on it.
-Deacon does not make an appearance
-I felt the pacing was a little off, and it moved fast in places but I guess those are my only complaints
-The Engineers are gone, at least on their home planet. David wipes them out.
-David creates a Proto Xenormorph by exposing someone to a classic facehugger, but it's not exactly the one we know. I guess he's responsible for the facehugger.
-Shaw is dead and David "dies" off screen
-The only stuff that was claustrophobic was the last 15 mins or so when they get back on the Covenant. My favorite action sequence was the Neomorph bursting scene that happens shortly after they land on Paradise, really intense. Also the Covenant stuff at the end was cool.
-Color tone of the movie I'm not sure how to answer. It was set on a planet with wildlife and Engineer structures.
- the Engineers are barely in the movie apart from corpses
-(philosophical and religious themes present?)Not much apart from the prologue with Weyland and David vs Walter later on
-Inside the Covenant, lighting was like some of the images I posted earlier with McBride and Ridley on the bridge. Blue ish with some corridors being grey and red.
-Space suits are closer to original film, bigger and not the bubble helmet design from Prometheus
-It ends with Tennesse and Daniels going back into cryo sleep for the long journey to their original destination before receiving beacon at Paradise. Walter closes their pods and goes down to the colonist bay wheres theres 2 thousand grown colonists and 1,300 embryos or something. Turns out he snuck two Proto Xeno embryos on the ship and puts them with the human embryos. He skips away and movie ends.(this one maybe false)
-David "dies" of screen after fight with Walter towards the end, Walter fights him because he tries to kill Daniels and Walter finds out David has been screwing them over the whole time.
-Shaw reattaches David's head during the flight to Paradise with David's help.
-I was confused by that myself. The whole film Walter seems to not like David screwing around with the Xenos or black goo then at the end it seems he has a change of heart.
-Proto Xeno is the result of David's experiments or at least the facehugger is.
-The crew have WY patches on their gear so I'm guessing in the 10 years between this and Prometheus, the merger happened.
-We unfortunately don't learn anything new about them. When the Juggernaut ship David and Shaw are in arrives at Paradise, David positions the ship above the Engineer citadel. Thousands of Engineers look up in the sky confused, then David unleashes the full cargo hold of black goo containers and it wipes out all of them. The corpses are mummified.
-The Covenant is massive and stays in a low orbit. The ship in these pics is a small drop ship the exploration team takes.
Posted Image
-When David takes out the Engineers, Shaw is still asleep in one of the cryo pods on the Juggernaut. She goes in there and tells David to wake her up when they arrive. David does it behind her back. "To create, one must first destroy."
-At the end, a Proto Xeno is on board the Covenant. Daniels and Tennesse fight it and she has on the space suit, it's bulky(maybe false).
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 01:13:09 AM
In 2017, the followers of Sagardoa began persecuting the heretical followers of 4chan guy... :laugh:
But Sagardoa and 4chan guy have been saying the same things, no? (Perhaps are the same person...)
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 01:13:09 AM
In 2017, the followers of Sagardoa began persecuting the heretical followers of 4chan guy... :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Great comment.
Nah, Sagardoa called Guy Pearce and the name Walter months before anyone else. 4chan guy could have made it all up seeing the trailer and looking at the leaked pictures.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 01:17:04 AM
Nah, Sagardoa called Guy Pearce and the name Walter months before anyone else. 4chan guy could have made it all up seeing the trailer and looking at the leaked pictures.
Here, here.
There is a great chance for that scenario if you ask me. :)
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 01:17:04 AM
Nah, Sagardoa called Guy Pearce and the name Walter months before anyone else. 4chan guy could have made it all up seeing the trailer and looking at the leaked pictures.
Right, that I know. I also know that a simple imdb inbox message to Sagardoa will confirm or deny if he and 4chan guy saw the same film, and well, the answer might disappoint you. Hence my confusion that their reports were at odds...
When did the 4chan guy start posting his leaks? If it was post-trailer (not necessarily after the embargo ended, though, as he could have been present at the Showcase 2017 events), then the chances of it being fake go from very high to near certain (I'm much more relieved if that's the case).
Somewhere around December 19.
Those test screening were held earlier. Hicks know that best.
Why did he wait that long to share the intel on 4chan?
Anyone with an IMDB account want to just message Sagardoa and end the debate?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 01:29:25 AM
Anyone with an IMDB account want to just message Sagardoa and end the debate?
I'm saying that I already did last week and he said the 4chan guy knew what he was talking about. And given that he knew the name Walter a long, long time ago as well as Shaw's fate (both of which he publicly posted on imdb), I assume he's telling the truth and the 4chan spoilers are in fact the film we're getting.
Quote from: shawsbaby on Dec 31, 2016, 01:31:06 AM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 01:29:25 AM
Anyone with an IMDB account want to just message Sagardoa and end the debate?
I'm saying that I already did last week and he said the 4chan guy knew what he was talking about. And given that he knew the name Walter a long, long time ago as well as Shaw's fate (both of which he publicly posted on imdb), I assume he's telling the truth and the 4chan spoilers are in fact the film we're getting.
Oh, sorry for the confusion. That's a shame.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 01:31:13 AM
I dont think you can message someone on IMDB :-\ :-[
Of course you can!
So, the crashed ship remains a mystery I suppose but otherwise, I think we know how this movie is going to unfold.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 01:32:17 AM
Quote from: shawsbaby on Dec 31, 2016, 01:31:06 AM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 01:29:25 AM
Anyone with an IMDB account want to just message Sagardoa and end the debate?
I'm saying that I already did last week and he said the 4chan guy knew what he was talking about. And given that he knew the name Walter a long, long time ago as well as Shaw's fate (both of which he publicly posted on imdb), I assume he's telling the truth and the 4chan spoilers are in fact the film we're getting.
Oh, sorry for the confusion. That's a shame.
No problem. But that's why I've been so confused by the "fact" of the Juggernaut
appearing crashed in the trailer somehow negating both 4chan guy and Sargadoa's accounts of the film.
Are you Sagardoa, are you 4chan guy :laugh: :laugh:
I think they are the same person.
Why ask a liar about other liar :)
Well someone needs to do a point by point debunking of 4chan guy's statements.
From what I have seen there are points in there that were only seen when we got the trailer.
Quote from: anduu on Dec 31, 2016, 01:34:54 AM
Well someone needs to do a point by point debunking of 4chan guy's statements.
From what I have seen there are points in there that were only seen when we got the trailer.
I do agree that many of his recollections seem to be missing some narrative logic here and there. If it plays out exactly as he's detailed, then the script may indeed be problematic. Given how the ending seemed to confuse him, it's likely he was confused by other aspects of the film/wasn't paying close attention. So we'll see.
Just messaged Sagardoa myself. Trust, but verify, ;)
I dont believe any of those guys.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 01:40:16 AM
I dont believe any of those guys.
Could be! I'm secretly hoping it's all a big lie. Would be great to be surprised in May :)
Quote from: shawsbaby on Dec 31, 2016, 01:41:48 AM
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 01:40:16 AM
I dont believe any of those guys.
Could be! I'm secretly hoping it's all a big lie. Would be great to be surprised in May :)
Indeed. I'm really hoping to be pleasantly surprised by a totally different film.
Shawsbaby, could you provide us with the exact answer Sagardoa wrote to you?
A lot of it could be true and a lot of it is from the trailer and behinds the scenes footage, however it's always best just to call them liars to piss them off. It's the only way to get pictures out of them. ::)
They are f**king liars... :D :D
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 01:43:34 AM
Shawsbaby, could you provide us with the exact answer Sagardoa wrote to you?
I didn't save the message unfortunately but I just sent him a link to the 4chan spoilers and asked if he could confirm they were legit. He said they were accurate and made note that the 4chan guy had misunderstood the ending, that the film made it pretty obvious.
I asked him about the earlier rumor about xenos moving around quickly and their biomechanical appearance taking on new meaning in this film; he said he saw nothing like that in the film.
I didn't push it further because I didn't want to bother him. I'm certain he's getting bombarded by other people messaging him.
Just thinking to myself, who in the right mind would leak such info on imdb of all places, they have almost everything needed to bust one's ass on completely legal grounds with standing. This is stealing cable illegal with or without a NDA.
okidoki
We ll need a new approach. :D
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview5%2F2600383%2Fsafe-auto-dr-gloves-o.gif&hash=9fc89d9afe1caaadbe6d2b99b2f31787c07563e1)
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 31, 2016, 01:53:55 AM
Just thinking to myself, who in the right mind would leak such info on imdb of all places, they have almost everything needed to bust one's ass on completely legal grounds with standing. This is stealing cable illegal with or without a NDA.
Quite right, my friend. :)
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 31, 2016, 01:53:55 AM
Just thinking to myself, who in the right mind would leak such info on imdb of all places, they have almost everything needed to bust one's ass on completely legal grounds with standing. This is stealing cable illegal with or without a NDA.
Excellent point! Here's to a (mostly) unspoiled film, maybe? :)
... mostly unspoiled or most spoiled movie of our time... :laugh:
This seems a little contradictory:
"So we did Prometheus - that heaved it off the ground - and Covenant is a follow-through to Prometheus. So we now know who created this, and why, and the next one's a joining up of the storyline. It touches on mortality, immortality and the real question of who created us and why."
What is Scott saying here? That the Engineers aren't the top of the food chain? That they did create us but not for the reasons we think? There is a clear connection between the Engineers and humans. It makes me wonder if our creation is a violation-perhaps to a higher power we haven't seen yet? We were created in their image, but what if the image of "God" is terrifying?
Regarding 4Chan/Sargoda, there were two test-screenings, one before and one after reshoots and re-editing.
4Chan was pre reshoots yes?
there was a guy a while back who claimed to be a time traveler (bare with me) who wrote up an entire Prometheus 2 re-enactment, like scene by scene. it sounded so damn cool... kinda wished it was the actual movie (very giger-esque motif and the engineers home planet was basically a giant giger painting). i really hope the IMDB guy was bullshitting about most of what he said, but honestly it sound like the way the film will go. still sounds amazing!
Sagardoa just got back to me, and yeah, he backed up what 4chan guy said.
Spoiler
No Engineers other than the flashback where David kills them all.
Because Ridley Scott couldn't be blowing smoke up peoples asses to try to pop the opening weekend box office figures.
From how I read what Scott is saying, I am more excited for the next film in the series than this one.
"I think there's some kind of decision being made. I believe in a higher force – if we want to call it God, then it's God." -- Ridley Scott
Yes, Ridley, He is the unmoved Mover, the uncaused Cause, the uncreated Creator, pure Act and the very essence of Being itself (ipsum esse subsistens). Also known as God, who has One Divine nature, and exists as three eternal Persons.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 04:20:44 AM
Sagardoa just got back to me, and yeah, he backed up what 4chan guy said. Spoiler
No Engineers other than the flashback where David kills them all.
Depressing. There has yet to be a single Alien sequel that actually followed through on the original sequel plan, and it looks like Covenant is no different. It's lack of story continuity that keeps stalling this series. They can't get enough dramatic momentum carried over from episode to episode, meaning each series (Alien, AvP, and now possibly Prometheus) has gradually lost steam. There is no point doing a series unless it builds to something, and how can it build to anything special if they keep deviating from their course to chase money?
I'm glad Scott found a way to include his themes, but this series has been extremely frustrating on a story level. Is it foolish to hope that Covenant 2 might actually continue the story, or are we doomed to have this series get re-imagined every step of the way?
There were a number of sequel plans, Protozoid. Which one do you refer to? The one where another team went to the same planet and the Jockey's showed up all pissed off?
Quote from: OpenMaw on Dec 31, 2016, 05:46:58 AM
There were a number of sequel plans, Protozoid. Which one do you refer to? The one where another team went to the same planet and the Jockey's showed up all pissed off?
Never heard of that one. Is that a comic book? I'm pretty sure they never intended to adapt that into Prometheus 2.
There has only ever been one sequel concept discussed by Scott & Co. prior to the announcement of Covenant. On the Prometheus commentary track, Scott described the sequel as Robinson Crusoe in Space, with Shaw and David's head trying to survive on Paradise while she searches for the origins of the Engineers. It's pretty obvious looking at the conclusion of Prometheus that Covenant does not represent their original plan for a sequel. The very fact that Fox plans to
Spoiler
kill the final survivor of the prior film offscreen
shows that Fox doesn't care about continuing the Prometheus storyline. This movie looks like an awkward compromise between Fox's desire to have a dumb action tentpole and Ridley's desire to finish the futurist-religious triptych he's trying to paint.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 04:20:44 AM
Sagardoa just got back to me, and yeah, he backed up what 4chan guy said. Spoiler
No Engineers other than the flashback where David kills them all.
That is a real letdown. So David is indeed more intelligent then them . Sad
Quote from: oduodu on Dec 31, 2016, 06:59:27 AM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 04:20:44 AM
Sagardoa just got back to me, and yeah, he backed up what 4chan guy said. Spoiler
No Engineers other than the flashback where David kills them all.
That is a real letdown. So David is indeed more intelligent then them . Sad
Does explain why they wanted us dead I guess. We are getting too smart.
QuoteDepressing. There has yet to be a single Alien sequel that actually followed through on the original sequel plan
I agree. The video games have the same problem. We will never know what ACM's ending means, and Amanda is forever doomed floating in space.
Sad indeed.
At least the visual style of Prometheus is followed through in Covenant.
Prometheus had the same theme didnt it?
I fear this film and franchise will fall flat again, it wants to be so much more and Ridley wants to save it so badly.
Oh yes! It looks like a sequel to Prometheus, it's perfect guys!
I remember Ridley's saying something exactly similar for Prometheus ::)
And to be honest I really wish this question to remain secret forever.
And morality... lol.
Scott says:
QuoteI think there's some kind of decision being made. I believe in a higher force - if we want to call it God, then it's God.
Ridley, there is only one God. Spaghetti Flying Monster! ;D
Same things were said about Prometheus but nothing came out of it except more questions. I am sure all these questions won't be answered till next the sequel.
I'm a firm advocate for the theory of evolution but it's an interesting idea that we were helped along the way by something, like we're living in some higher intelligence's petri dish and they are observing to understand their own evolution and past. It's not so difficult to imagine, if humans can clone life, if they could eventually terraform planets that is exactly what the Engineers are doing in Prometheus. Of course we have to work out space travel first.
That said, I think Scott is a bit disingenuous when he says nobody ever asked where the Alien came from, a lot of people wanted to know where the derelict, its pilot and cargo came from and why it's on LV 426 - Sigourney Weaver has gone on record several times as saying she wants to return to the Alien planet and deal with them there.
And I don't like the idea that David may have created the Alien, but then perhaps he didn't create them. Perhaps the Derelict on LV426 is indeed full of ancient sacrificial beasts and David tries to recreate them when he finds out about their existence.
Didn't the guy something about
Spoiler
that we would learn about how the xenos were able to perfectly find their way around in every environment?
What about the original derelict and space jockey? It seemed to be so old that it had been fossilized.
Game over, guys...
LEAKS ARE CORRECT!
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 12:02:41 PM
Game over, guys...
LEAKS ARE CORRECT!
Do you have further evidence?
Game over, man. Game over.
it's fynny how this post has gone from super happy and optimistic to downright depressing. . Cheer up people. .if 4chan guys spoilers are true. . It still sounds like a very decent movie to me . .in the end they can't please everyone and it could have been a hell of a lot worse. .just go read that prometheus 2 script from the so called time traveler. .
Trust me on this. I havent believed it myself till now... :) They are completely true.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 01:17:07 PM
Trust me on this. I havent believed it myself till now... :) They are completely true.
I'm not bothered. Interested in philosophy? Read books bro. Besides, Covenant is the first part of the upcoming trilogy so these themes might be addressed in next movies.
Philosophy... I m interested in undertones and smarter storytelling.
I do not say Covenant will not contain non of these, but I m certainly
bothered with the fact that we wont get any relevant answers. They
simply deleted all those elements they found difficult to provide the answers for.
And again we ll hear that phrase... "maybe the next one will refer those questions
and provide some clues..."
. .4chan guy says the suits are bulky and no bubble helmets. . Yet their is a bubble helmet in the trailer. . So i am still not convinced all he says is true. .
^ Lol, yep, Daniels' helmet, which is my favourite so far. Anyway, Haag said there are "a ton of answers". Now showing the answers is much better than some info dumping, though I think David might wax philosophically a little; some sinister, Miltonian quips perhaps, otherwise, yeah, I just want a good Alien film to be honest.
As a true Alien fan, I wasn't speaking about finite answers... we all want to have something to really reinvigorate and amplify the mystery behind Xeno and behind Engineers because they introduced them poorly in Prometheus. Even the introduction of Engineers could serve as a great story tool for indirect introduction or perhaps hint of some far more sinister and incomprehensible force somewhere in the universe. Engineers and the current state of things in Alien universe do not add to the mystery of the Alien and Jockey, they simply diminish that very mystery. Ridley spoke about that ultimate God/creative force (I dont want the finite answer but I crave for some cool hints), so that reassured me he intends to introduce something completely new and mysterious. He cant make Alien scarier... he simply can not do that, but he can create far more sinister Universe... and with that, Xeno will automatically become far more creepier and mystery will be refreshed.
Asked Sagardoa about the mortality/immortality theme. Interested to see what he says.
Quote"We're not just a random biological accident," he insisted. "For you and I to be sitting here right now [by accident] would take trillions of correct decisions to be made randomly by nature, which of course is ridiculous.
Damm Ridley is completely ignorant to how evolution works, he may know how to make movies but in regards for science he have the mental capacity of a 12 year old.
Sagardoa and 4chan haven't seen the final cut. Besides 4chan doesn't look like die-hard Alien fan so perhaps he didn't pay attention enough to the details.
You should not worry about spoilers. Stay away from this. At worst it will influence your judgment.
There are tons of people who don't like Prometheus and find the story stupid ...
this is not the case of Enoch for example, you love the whole mystery surrounding Prometheus. Just to say that nobody feels the same in front of the pictures or the story.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Dec 31, 2016, 03:01:37 PM
Quote"We're not just a random biological accident," he insisted. "For you and I to be sitting here right now [by accident] would take trillions of correct decisions to be made randomly by nature, which of course is ridiculous.
Damm Ridley is completely ignorant to how evolution works, he may know how to make movies but in regards for science he have the mental capacity of a 12 year old.
Agree ;D. I like Ridley but sometimes he crosses the line.
You know sometimes I think that you guys purposely want to depress yourselves!!
Example:
The planet has gray sky. GRAY SKY... OH MAN CHILDHOOD RUINED!!!! :laugh:
Quote from: Samhain13 on Dec 31, 2016, 03:01:37 PM
Quote"We're not just a random biological accident," he insisted. "For you and I to be sitting here right now [by accident] would take trillions of correct decisions to be made randomly by nature, which of course is ridiculous.
Damm Ridley is completely ignorant to how evolution works, he may know how to make movies but in regards for science he have the mental capacity of a 12 year old.
And how does the evolution work... enlighten us 12 year old guys?...
I always thought evolution is a PROCESS... and using analogy I deducted
that the process comes after the object upon that process takes effect... SO... explain how
Ridley is wrong... There needs to be a life in order to have evolution, not other way around. Evolution
is not a process of creating life but a process of changing and transforming that life form or object, sometimes for
the better and sometimes not.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Dec 31, 2016, 03:01:37 PM
Quote"We're not just a random biological accident," he insisted. "For you and I to be sitting here right now [by accident] would take trillions of correct decisions to be made randomly by nature, which of course is ridiculous.
Damm Ridley is completely ignorant to how evolution works, he may know how to make movies but in regards for science he have the mental capacity of a 12 year old.
And how does the evolution work... enlighten us 12 year old guys?...
I always thought evolution is a PROCESS... and using analogy I deducted
that the process comes after the object upon that process takes effect... SO... explain how
Ridley is wrong wrong... There needs to be a life in order to have evolution, not other way around. Evolution
is not a process of creating life but a process of changing and transforming that life form or object, sometimes for
the better and sometimes not.
He should read Richard Dawkins.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Dec 31, 2016, 03:01:37 PM
Quote"We're not just a random biological accident," he insisted. "For you and I to be sitting here right now [by accident] would take trillions of correct decisions to be made randomly by nature, which of course is ridiculous.
Damm Ridley is completely ignorant to how evolution works, he may know how to make movies but in regards for science he have the mental capacity of a 12 year old.
And how does the evolution work... enlighten us 12 year old guys?...
I always thought evolution is a PROCESS... and using analogy I deducted
that the process comes after the object upon that process takes effect... SO... explain how
Ridley is wrong... There needs to be a life in order to have evolution, not other way around. Evolution
is not a process of creating life but a process of changing and transforming that life form or object, sometimes for
the better and sometimes not.
Since googling seems too hard for you to do on your own, let me help:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
Ridley is wrong because he seems to think that evolution works by "accident".
Whether Scott is scientifically rigorous or not is kind of beside the point here. The important thing is the world he has created supports the idea that man was created by a higher power. The who is pretty much known. The why is still being explored.
You still do not make a difference between evolution and "creation" of life.
Abiogenesis is still a hypothesis.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m4hzjpLbbk1qzktzro1_r1_250.gif&hash=053e5fa160e7311b2c230f1b6f60e82999484164)
rabidranger, Completely agree with you.
-----------------------
Even if that theories of Abiogenesis are correct... again its still
unknown how matter came to be... Higgs boson, Higgs field,
Zero universe theory, Holographic theory...all this is still unclear.
Behind everything in universe stand some very intriguing force...
you may call it a knowledge. Some order within disorder.
There are certain triggers, causes leading from one stage to another...
That is pretty difficult to explain... With the religion everything has had
some cause (God), and religion gave us the answers to why questions (for what reason)...
With the appearance of science everything lost "that kind of causality" and became "determined" by the laws of nature/physics/ evolution; but dont forget... its us who DISCOVERED THAT!!! Those principles and postulated existed there and look how intricate and well devised they are. They "exist/work/have a certain pattern" or measure and therefore there is certain causality in all that...or perhaps everything we see or seem is just a dream within a dream and everything is a projection of NOTHING).. who knows what will the future disciplines discover. Science just provide us with HOW answers... so scientist are just an interpreters or discoverers of nature and nothing more. They will never succeed to discover the origin of everything because of their methods.. Maybe the understanding of terms cause, causality, order, creation , life and existence are still too primitive and human mind therefore cant understand the "meaning" hovering somewhere in the mysterious void. I think there is grand "meaning" behind the mystery of universe/existence/life/being....
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 31, 2016, 01:04:04 AM
However the guy says that David bombs Paradise in the opening... well it looks quite clear that the Juggernaut crash lands instead. Something he entirely omitted because he never saw the film. I thought it true at first because I thought Hicks knew someone who saw the rough cut but that was incorrect information. What Ridley's telling us and what that person said isn't adding up.
The 4chan guy did say that the Juggernaut crashed:
Spoiler
Quote from: The 4chan guyWhen David first tells the crew of Covenant what happened to Shaw, he claims she died when the Jockey ship crashed on the planet. Later we find out David killed her or exposed her to black goo for testing.
Yes, he did... :D
Leaks are true...
(https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ForceAwakens7Text.gif)
So what happened? What made you change your mind after I've been hitting my head against a brick wall for so long? :laugh:
Spoilers, guys! Spoilers in a non-spoiler thread.
Even if the leaks are true, they don't disconfirm that there isn't anything about immortality in the movie.
Sorry Bishop, fixed mine. I think the other guys just didn't believe them, that's why they didn't bother spoiler tagging 'em.
I m sorry about your head... :) :laugh: I was really stubborn and opposed to cope with the state of affairs. I simply received
several confirmations from two different people I previously asked. Someone who was really close to the Engineer scene. ;) Obviously there is still a small possibility that every of them fooled me but... that chances are now very tiny, because their statements are pretty identical. I even received a description of some other scenes but I wont share that here. (one scene was provided by Sagardoa and other two by some other source I cant name. Those scenes completely fit with everything other we know or have seen in trailer. ) This movie is pretty spoiled already... My God, this is the most spoiled movie ever. :(
Hahaha... cool, now we can agree with each other for a change! :laugh:
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Dec 31, 2016, 05:03:33 PM
Hahaha... cool, now we can agree with each other for a change! :laugh:
Hallelujah!!! :laugh:
(https://static56.cmtt.ru/tj_paper/comments/9-5723/69816154105e5eb1ec8.gif)
:laugh:
I think this movie will be great for the majority of audience (it ll earn some serious money and thats why studios suddenly change the release date), and will have some food for thoughts also (for us who always want to see that). But I m still unsure how will those hardcore Alien fans react to this one... I dont think they ll be satisfied. I dont thin I ll be entirely satisfied. :)
Ridley was pushed to play Covenant in safe mode, obviously.
I just hope its not played out too safe...
hardcore alien fans are a difficult crowd to please. . Cause we don't neccesarily want the exact same thing. .from what i have gathered so far . . I definately am feeling very happy. .but it won't apease everyone. . Tho i think it will be better received than prometheus. .
I agree with you.
I think Scott is drinking too much of his own coolade here.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 04:46:49 PM
I m sorry about your head... :) [emoji23] I was really stubborn and opposed to cope with the state of affairs. I simply received
several confirmations from two different people I previously asked. Someone who was really close to the Engineer scene. ;) Obviously there is still a small possibility that every of them fooled me but... that chances are now very tiny, because their statements are pretty identical. I even received a description of some other scenes but I wont share that here. (one scene was provided by Sagardoa and other two by some other source I cant name. Those scenes completely fit with everything other we know or have seen in trailer. ) This movie is pretty spoiled already... My God, this is the most spoiled movie ever. :(
Is there something about Eggmorphing in the movie?
I think not... :)
Quote from: Alien Grand Master on Dec 31, 2016, 06:16:32 PM
I think Scott is drinking too much of his own coolade here.
This is what he had to say about the
Prometheus naysayers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R9TNByubnY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R9TNByubnY)
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 04:37:10 PM
Yes, he did... :D
Leaks are true...
(https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ForceAwakens7Text.gif)
Quote from: echobbase79 on Dec 31, 2016, 07:49:49 PM
Quote from: Alien Grand Master on Dec 31, 2016, 06:16:32 PM
I think Scott is drinking too much of his own coolade here.
This is what he had to say about the Prometheus naysayers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R9TNByubnY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R9TNByubnY)
Say that to my face and i punch your nose in. Narcissistic old man is so full of himself. ::)
Spoiler
I swear if Transformers finishes their "Who Created us" arc before this series does...
This forum went pretty dead after finding out the leaks are true. Thankfully I don't know much.
I think these leaks are big bullshit. There may be some real things because when you say a big pack of shit there is always a part of it. This is what the clairvoyants practice, it is the technique of the shotgun. We say vague things and quite wide and there is necessarily something true.
Quote from: Bworko on Dec 31, 2016, 09:00:50 PM
I think these leaks are big bullshit. There may be some real things because when you say a big pack of shit there is always a part of it. This is what the clairvoyants practice, it is the technique of the shotgun. We say vague things and quite wide and there is necessarily something true.
I don't doubt there is a lot of truth to it but that doesn't mean it's the whole movie.
Take this info as a grain of salt..
It's still odd to me they'd even bother screening this film this far in advance.
. . I would'ny mind if it's true actually. .but it could be red herrings coming directly from fox. .and that might be the very reason it's not been taken down yet. .
Quote from: juxtapose on Dec 31, 2016, 09:48:35 PM
. . I would'ny mind if it's true actually. .but it could be red herrings coming directly from fox. .and that might be the very reason it's not been taken down yet. .
It's been taken down.
Quote from: shawsbaby on Dec 31, 2016, 09:45:51 PM
It's still odd to me they'd even bother screening this film this far in advance.
It's common practice.
Quote from: Bworko on Dec 31, 2016, 09:00:50 PM
I think these leaks are big bullshit. There may be some real things because when you say a big pack of shit there is always a part of it. This is what the clairvoyants practice, it is the technique of the shotgun. We say vague things and quite wide and there is necessarily something true.
lulz.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Dec 31, 2016, 09:51:59 PM
It's common practice.
Well, I know films commonly screen before release, but it seems strange they'd do so for a big film in an established franchise that benefits from keeping things a surprise, especially since leaks and spoilers are utterly impossible to stop these days. Apart from industry, I don't know why they'd risk it.
Quote from: shawsbaby on Dec 31, 2016, 09:58:42 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Dec 31, 2016, 09:51:59 PM
It's common practice.
Well, I know films commonly screen before release, but it seems strange they'd do so for a big film in an established franchise that benefits from keeping things a surprise, especially since leaks and spoilers are utterly impossible to stop these days. Apart from industry, I don't know why they'd risk it.
You might be right but the question remains: who really reads those leaks? Only die-hard fans. Random audience know shit :).
Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 31, 2016, 10:24:17 PM
Quote from: shawsbaby on Dec 31, 2016, 09:58:42 PM
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Dec 31, 2016, 09:51:59 PM
It's common practice.
Well, I know films commonly screen before release, but it seems strange they'd do so for a big film in an established franchise that benefits from keeping things a surprise, especially since leaks and spoilers are utterly impossible to stop these days. Apart from industry, I don't know why they'd risk it.
You might be right but the question remains: who really reads those leaks? Only die-hard fans. Random audience know shit :).
True. Most people do not care about test screening leaks. But this might be a unique situation where a leak effected the opinions of the fans. I'm sure if would effect the box office of the next Star Wars film if there were confirmed reports that
Spoiler
Rey would die offscreen before the start of Episode VIII
. Nobody would believe that this was the original plan, and it would be all too obvious that interference is occurring on the highest levels. That might actually effect the box office.
Is anyone really surprised that Scott has become/has been a narcissist? Big block buster movies, prestige and fame, knighting, awards, etc...
As one of the few Christians on the forum here, I read a lot of interesting posts to say the least. While I don't like Prometheus' attempt to turn the scifi horror franchise I grew up with into an "ancient alien/extraterrestrial creation " propaganda tale, I still intend to see this film and see how it stacks up against the other films. For me, the Alien franchise has always been about Ripley, her survival against impossible odds, the nastiest species ever encountered, and why space is unforgiving. If anything, the films say "don't bother looking for aliens, you'll regret what you find!!!" :)
Regardless of your own personal faith or ideology, these films are just that. Films. Science FICTION. No doubt Scott has taken the series in a bold direction, considering the original movie and its sequels, and his own views have influenced the direction. As an art form, films can be enjoyed and hated all the same and we're all entitled to our own opinions.
If we respect each other and make sure to post SPOILERS when necessary, the forum will continue to thrive!
Also, I wouldn't believe a thing from 4chan. It literally is the collective cesspool of the internet.
Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Jan 01, 2017, 01:33:52 AM
Also, I wouldn't believe a thing from 4chan. It literally is the collective cesspool of the internet.
BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! So true. At least don't rely solely on 4Chan as a reliable source -
always get your information verified if it comes from 4Chan.
Mind you, 4Chan does have its uses. Like, gathering all the trolls in one place. It's too bad they just don't stay there.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: windebieste on Jan 01, 2017, 01:58:20 AM
Mind you, 4Chan does have its uses....
yeah it does... pr0n :D
Pepe's birth place lol
Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Jan 01, 2017, 01:33:52 AM
As one of the few Christians on the forum here, I read a lot of interesting posts to say the least.
If we respect each other and make sure to post SPOILERS when necessary, the forum will continue to thrive!
Also, I wouldn't believe a thing from 4chan. It literally is the collective cesspool of the internet.
You are not the only Christian, here, PRJ....so don't feel too lonely. I haven't posted in a few years, but used to be a regular. I agree with your post, completely. I am a scientist, by background, and accept the Modern Synthesis of Evolutionary Theory as the correct scientific explanation of life's development on Earth. With that said, I see the complex beauty, contingency, and the evolution of humanity (in the fullness of time) as a shining,
ne plus ultra example of God's Providence at work in our physical Universe. In my personal case, it was the deeper study of physics and advanced mathematics which helped serve to reinforce my Faith. As a devout Catholic, we understand that there exists no contradiction or incompatibility between Faith and Science.
"Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth." "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are." -- CCC #159
Cheers,
John
Haha, love the Malmsteen quote. Imagine what would've happened had he drank the water!
I think Scott has every right to be confident and tell people to f**k off, if he wants. I mean, he's Ridley Scott. He's made a name for himself and there's no doubt he's worked very hard to get where he's at. I think the people who attack him feel threatened by his success or annoyed being in his shadow.
I'm not saying you can't level legitimate criticism at the guy but just getting miffed at him for being narcissistic. Well, it's hard to get anywhere in the world the way Scott has done without being somewhat arrogant. It's just fuel that gives one drive.
Agreed.
It's interesting to see Ridley's comments on his own belief system, and certainly explains the overtly 'religious' allusions that he included in PROMETHEUS storyline.
I personally don't believe that any kind of 'supernatural anomaly' is behind the creation of our world and the cosmos at large, and am more inclined to believe that life 'found a way' in some random, naturalistic manner instead. For one example - if the 'multi-verse' theory is correct, then there could be countless times (yes, even trillions) that different 'universes' have popped into existence over aeons of time - and ours is one that just happened to involve all the random processes necessary to end up with the habitable planet that we've evolved on. What triggered our particular universe (or even the multi-verse) in the first place? - well, I can't say, but I'm content to think it was due to some as-yet-unknown 'natural' trigger, rather than because of some pre-existing 'supernatural' event.
As far as Ridley's PROMETHEUS storyline however, I never really liked the 'Chariots Of The Gods' concept that he went with in the first place, where our human evolution involved intervention by others from another planet (the 'Engineers'). It's interesting enough in the sense that he's able to intertwine that concept with humans then going on to create robots in our own image...but to be honest, I'd have preferred a storyline which didn't involve 'tall humanoid aliens' whatsoever.
While I'll always love watching Ridley's fantastic visual sense, whatever he comes up with for these latest movies, I've come to the conclusion that I prefer to look on his whole 'Engineers'/'Chariots Of The Gods' storyline as some kind of 'what if?'/'alternative universe' scenario which is totally unconnected to his more 'Giger'-esque original classic ALIEN with it's NON-'space-suited' space jockey! And I'll continue to keep ALIENS as a worthy follow-up sequel, and look on ALIEN 3 and ALIEN RES as mere 'hypersleep nightmares' Ripley endures. :P
This way, I'm gonna go into ALIEN COVENANT with some renewed anticipation after the many miss-steps of PROMETHEUS. I haven't read the 'spoilers', and won't watch any further trailers...so hopefully there will be something of interest in this 'alternative' storyline for me to take away. I'll certainly give PROMETHEUS another re-watch before I go see this continuation, but it will be Agent 9's excellent 'special edition' which I go to for that.
There is nothing random in the Universe... I can tell you that. Regarding God question... I personally believe there is more than meets the eye. Even with multiple universes/times or whatever you say... all that came from nothing, or perhaps existed forever... or came from the explosion of the previous universe, or is just a projection of non material information... no matter what... there is more than just a coincidence for us and everything else to be here and to say/understand and comprehend that we are indeed here. God is that knowledge, that eternal and everlasting information of everything that is and will be. It strange how calculated things in the Universe are... very strange.
He builds his lofty palace in the heavens
and sets its foundation on the earth;
he calls for the waters of the sea
and pours them out over the face of the land—
the Lord is his name.
The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone,
I will make a helper suitable for him."
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,
so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky,
over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures
that move along the ground."
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth
and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the
throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for
ever and ever!"
By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has
gone, the new is here!
Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker,
those who are nothing but potsherds
among the potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
'What are you making?'
Does your work say,
'The potter has no hands'?
I would have been more than happy had Scott been able to do a Ancient Aliens trilogy, disconnected from the Alien franchise. It's a fascinating theory that can really get the imagination going, and the look of the original Engineers was a really good look for that. Jesus as an engineer, why not, just not in the Alien universe, and not so vaguely referenced, as if the writers were unsure they could get away with it. I really feel both the Ancient Alien and "Alien" stories being forced together has muddled both. But still I guess the whole story arc he's doing now can be enjoyable in a Heavy Metal, pulpy out-on-a-weird-planet-with-no-helmet-on way. I look at Prometheus that way now and it works as an in-over-its-head silly sci fi story wirh serious themes that go nowhere unless you apply a lot of your own imagination... I've decided to try to enjoy the mess.
I was most intrigued to see how you guys would react to Rldley's remarks and the response is, unlike scified, rather than hint at entitlement makes it much more bare faced.
May I also say this is not a criticism it is merely an observation which has been growing in my mind for sometime.
Essentially Ridley has taken an outcome of various minds from 1978 the Xenomorph and said lets give it context what does this mean.
Given what had been offered since it is easy to be distracted but it is essentially someone saying we struck gold with this notion of reproduction for its own sake without a moral compass or environment how might that have happened. Or to put it another way the beast in a tin can is cooked and comes across as gratuitous with subtexts of rape and domination unless you explain how.
What I get from reading many entries here is people do not want that. They want the zenomorph to remain/be ancient magnificent a mystery which is unconquerable and special.
In Ridleys mind its nearly always been a weapon an unthinking cat out of the bag piece of nihilism.
If he wants to tell a story which says thanks to Promethean Minds (Engineers, Peter Weyland) over inquisitiveness and unpreparedness to accept mortality as an accident or as a booby trap a mutagen was created which had zeno characteristics which re organised its victim and made it predatory over sexualised and deeply unsympathetic to its own hosts original natural intent I will say he has made a neat morality tale and if he ruins the mystique of this nasty parasitic retributive creature where humiliation and punishment is the programme I am good to go.
Just one final thought if AC
If AC has great characters (which we do not know yet) and a great story (which we do not know yet) then most people including me will be captured by that rather than worrying about helmet protocols.
I would love to see some of the analysis that goes on here be applied to Shakespeare. "How stupid was it to rely on a messenger to get through to Romeo" Didn't Lear's madness seem contrived anyway.
Quote from: Protozoid on Dec 31, 2016, 10:48:38 PM
Spoiler
Rey would die offscreen before the start of Episode VIII
That's about the only thing that would get me to see that movie in the theatre.
Spoiler
Sadly they are going to have to do that with Princess Leia.
Quote from: BringbackJonesy! on Jan 01, 2017, 02:00:29 PM
I personally don't believe that any kind of 'supernatural anomaly' is behind the creation of our world and the cosmos at large, and am more inclined to believe that life 'found a way' in some random, naturalistic manner instead. For one example - if the 'multi-verse' theory is correct, then there could be countless times (yes, even trillions) that different 'universes' have popped into existence over aeons of time - and ours is one that just happened to involve all the random processes necessary to end up with the habitable planet that we've evolved on. What triggered our particular universe (or even the multi-verse) in the first place? - well, I can't say, but I'm content to think it was due to some as-yet-unknown 'natural' trigger, rather than because of some pre-existing 'supernatural' event.
Hello BringbackJonesy!
There are major philosophical and scientific problems with the entire "Multiverse" hypothesis (in all of it's various permutations).
From a scientific standpoint, it is by definition, non-scientific and therefore a purely metaphysical hypothesis. It is non-scientific because if fails a fundamental principle of the scientific method, that is, the existence of alternate universe(s) is beyond experimental scrutiny, observation and testing. The hypothesis is inherently unfalsifiable. While certain aspects may be technically sweet, self-consistent and have explanatory powers within a mathematical "toy" model...explanation is
NOT prediction. The hypothesis does not make any predictions that can be tested. In fact, it is even more nonsensical, from a purely scientific perspective. Due to the unimaginably large Set of possible universes that modern Multiverse theory posits, testable predictions are not only impossible, but intrinsically meaningless if they were possible. That is to say, in the incredibly large Set of possible universes, virtually anything is possible and virtually anything can happen...this means any notional prediction will not translate into a specific, unique testable fact.
From a philosophical standpoint, the argument for a Multiverse simply kicks the can down the road. Our physical universe does not contain within itself an explanation of it's own existence. A myriad of additional universes does not help explain why there is something rather than nothing. I can simply expand my definition of our physical Universe (with a capital "U") to be that Universe that contains all universes. You can't stop me from constructing this Set. Instead of a Set with one member, I now have a Set with a bazillion members. In either case, one is still stumped by the Argument for Contingency.
Cheers,
John
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Jan 01, 2017, 05:04:21 PM
He builds his lofty palace in the heavens
and sets its foundation on the earth;
he calls for the waters of the sea
and pours them out over the face of the land—
the Lord is his name.
The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone,
I will make a helper suitable for him."
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,
so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky,
over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures
that move along the ground."
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth
and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the
throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for
ever and ever!"
By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has
gone, the new is here!
Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker,
those who are nothing but potsherds
among the potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
'What are you making?'
Does your work say,
'The potter has no hands'?
Amen, brother. :)
Quote from: Enoch on Jan 01, 2017, 03:21:51 PM
There is nothing random in the Universe... I can tell you that.
How do you know that? I can claim that a lot of things are random in the universe and add to it:
I can tell you that.
Precisely... and thats why nothing is random... :D ;) :laugh:
Hello Deuterium.
Concerning the 'Multiverse' scenario - I agree with everything you wrote about it. As you say, the existence of alternate universe(s) is beyond scientific scrutiny, observation and testing...and therefore the hypothesis is indeed inherently unfalsifiable.
On the other hand, the existence of some meaningful 'Grand Designer' is equally unprovable.
However, I was really trying to get across the point that if the 'Multiverse' scenario is correct (in whatever type of form), then it could be that out of all the different permutations possible, that we happen to be in a random one which led to our galaxies forming in a way which gave rise to life as we know it...on our planet at least, so far.
But whether the fabric of overall 'reality' threw up a 'Multiverse' or just the single observable Universe we know about is not something I'm too fussed about. I don't believe that the 'Big Bang' we know about came out of 'absolutely nothing'...but I do believe that it's more likely it came about due to 'something' like a type of 'quantum fluctuation' that might make up the fabric of our unseeable overall 'reality' to begin with...rather than coming about due to some 'all-powerful', pre-existing deity.
Either way, I realise that my belief in a random, 'naturalistic' act of existence is as difficult a concept for some to accept, as the idea of a deliberate 'Creator' is for me...so we'll just have to agree to disagree in which 'faith' we choose to believe in.
Going back to these PROMETHEUS movies however, I would have preferred a storyline which kept the 'Xenomorph' eggs (along with the 'Queen') as having evolved in a truly independent, 'alien' manner on some far-flung planet with difficult conditions...rather than ending up as some kind of developed 'bio-weaponry' by 'tall humanoids'...which seems to be the direction Ridley's going.
Fair enough, if that's the way he wanted to set these creatures up...but I REALLY could have done without him involving the 'tall humanoids' as being instrumental in OUR develpment too!!
Mainy, I'm hoping that I end up actually caring for the new characters in ALIEN COVENANT in the same way that I did for the characters in ALIEN and ALIENS...or all the fancy kills and effects will be rendered meaningless overall. So fingers crossed for that.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to you and everyone else here.
:P :P :P
Quote from: BringbackJonesy! on Jan 02, 2017, 02:36:49 AM
Hello Deuterium.
Concerning the 'Multiverse' scenario - I agree with everything you wrote about it. As you say, the existence of alternate universe(s) is beyond scientific scrutiny, observation and testing...and therefore the hypothesis is indeed inherently unfalsifiable.
On the other hand, the existence of some meaningful 'Grand Designer' is equally unprovable.
However, I was really trying to get across the point that if the 'Multiverse' scenario is correct (in whatever type of form), then it could be that out of all the different permutations possible, that we happen to be in a random one which led to our galaxies forming in a way which gave rise to life as we know it...on our planet at least, so far.
But whether the fabric of overall 'reality' threw up a 'Multiverse' or just the single observable Universe we know about is not something I'm too fussed about. I don't believe that the 'Big Bang' we know about came out of 'absolutely nothing'...but I do believe that it's more likely it came about due to 'something' like a type of 'quantum fluctuation' that might make up the fabric of our unseeable overall 'reality' to begin with...rather than coming about due to some 'all-powerful', pre-existing deity.
Either way, I realise that my belief in a random, 'naturalistic' act of existence is as difficult a concept for some to accept, as the idea of a deliberate 'Creator' is for me...so we'll just have to agree to disagree in which 'faith' we choose to believe in.
Going back to these PROMETHEUS movies however, I would have preferred a storyline which kept the 'Xenomorph' eggs (along with the 'Queen') as having evolved in a truly independent, 'alien' manner on some far-flung planet with difficult conditions...rather than ending up as some kind of developed 'bio-weaponry' by 'tall humanoids'...which seems to be the direction Ridley's going.
Fair enough, if that's the way he wanted to set these creatures up...but I REALLY could have done without him involving the 'tall humanoids' as being instrumental in OUR develpment too!!
Mainy, I'm hoping that I end up actually caring for the new characters in ALIEN COVENANT in the same way that I did for the characters in ALIEN and ALIENS...or all the fancy kills and effects will be rendered meaningless overall. So fingers crossed for that.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to you and everyone else here.
:P :P :P
Thank you for your thoughtful reply, BringbackJonesy!
And Happy New Year to you, as well.
Just a brief response and clarification to our previous dialogue.
I completely agree that the existence of God cannot be established or proved through the Scientific Method. But that does not mean we do not have other means by which to apprehend facts and derive truths about reality.
I fully accept (and continually practice) science, and believe it to be a practical, and even a
necessary means for understanding and explaining properties of our physical Universe. However, I cordially disagree with those who believe it to be the
necessary and sufficient means for the same. That would be "scientism", which is a philosophical belief. That, in and of itself, does not make it a false or an erroneous belief. However, one would have to use philosophical arguments to make the case for scientism...i.e. science and the scientific method is the exclusive and exhaustive means for understanding and explaining all of reality.
Which brings us back to the question of God, and how we can come to knowledge of His existence, and certainty about this truth, as well as other truths about reality which fall outside the scope and domain of science. There are two primary means. The first is through natural reason and philosophical arguments. The second is through direct (Divine) revelation. Incidentally, the first means has also given us the entire field and structure of mathematics, which just so happens to be a critical component in the practice of the scientific method.
Sorry for the diversion into epistemology. Now back to the topic at hand. ;D
Why of why did Ridley feel the need to retcon the mysterious, surreal and truly "alien" Space Jockey creature into a something so mundane as a big, blue human?? That was my biggest frustration with Prometheus. He took the "alien" out of Alien.
Although this Logos is eternally valid, yet men are unable to understand it -- not only before hearing it, but even after they have heard it for the first time. That is to say, although all things come to pass in accordance with this Logos , men seem to be quite without any experience of it -- at least if they are judged in the light of such words and deeds as I am here setting forth. ...
We should let ourselves be guided by what is common to all. Yet although the Logos is common to all, most men live as if each had a private intelligence of his own.
Although intimately connected with the Logos, men keep setting themselves against it.
Listening not to me but to the Logos, it is wise to acknowledge
that all things are one.
MIND IS EVERYONE'S GOD.
Heraclitus, fr. 2 (p. 19)QuoteTime present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future
And time future contained in time past.
If all time is eternally present
All time is unredeemable.
What might have been is an abstraction
Remaining a perpetual possibility
Only in a world of speculation.
What might have been and what has been
Point to one end, which is always present.
Footfalls echo in the memory
Down the passage which we did not take
Towards the door we never opened
Into the rose-garden (death/life). My words echo
Thus, in your mind .
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
T.S. Eliot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo9lUPeAAJs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo9lUPeAAJs)
;)
dam alien covenent good movie10;10pts
Sagardoa messaged me again, and he dropped an inetersting tidbit.
Spoiler
Apparently at one point two kinds of alien fight, allowing the humans to get away. So maybe the Neomorphs fight Big Chap?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 02, 2017, 05:16:09 PM
Sagardoa messaged me again, and he dropped an inetersting tidbit.
Spoiler
Apparently at one point two kinds of alien fight, allowing the humans to get away. So maybe the Neomorphs fight Big Chap?
But if
Spoiler
Big chap is there which one ends up on Covenant!!
Wanna c more about the Engineers, their planets and their culture, Ancient Gods... why they wanted to wipe out humanity... + some classic Gigersque Alien stuff :)
Quote from: Pvt. Himmel on Jan 02, 2017, 05:18:53 PM
But if Spoiler
Big chap is there which one ends up on Covenant!!
ALL THE ALIENS! lol ;)
Im worried about this creationist no-sense...not a fan of religion in scifi films
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 02, 2017, 05:16:09 PM
Sagardoa messaged me again, and he dropped an inetersting tidbit.
Spoiler
Apparently at one point two kinds of alien fight, allowing the humans to get away. So maybe the Neomorphs fight Big Chap?
Spoiler
Whoever wins...we lose.
;D
Quote from: Deuterium on Jan 02, 2017, 08:23:04 PM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 02, 2017, 05:16:09 PM
Sagardoa messaged me again, and he dropped an inetersting tidbit.
Spoiler
Apparently at one point two kinds of alien fight, allowing the humans to get away. So maybe the Neomorphs fight Big Chap?
Spoiler
Whoever wins...we lose.
Now it's just getting ridiculous :laugh:
Ridley says a LOAD of shit...much of it contradictory...
interesting to think the covenant made between the engineers and the Alien being the engineers get immortality and the tech to Travers entire universes and the Alien creature gets hosts in return 😊😊😊
I wonder if the Paradise engineers renounced that covenant and remained pure whilst our lv223 engineers devoted themselves and their ideology and physicality to that of the Alien creature they worship from the mural
Quote from: windebieste on Jan 01, 2017, 01:58:20 AM
Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Jan 01, 2017, 01:33:52 AM
Also, I wouldn't believe a thing from 4chan. It literally is the collective cesspool of the internet.
BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! So true. At least don't rely solely on 4Chan as a reliable source - always get your information verified if it comes from 4Chan.
Mind you, 4Chan does have its uses. Like, gathering all the trolls in one place. It's too bad they just don't stay there.
-Windebieste.
Yeah that is a shame they don't. It would be humorous to look back after the film comes out and has been dissected to pieces that the story elements were true.
Quote from: Deuterium on Jan 02, 2017, 03:29:57 PM
Why of why did Ridley feel the need to retcon the mysterious, surreal and truly "alien" Space Jockey creature into a something so mundane as a big, blue human?? That was my biggest frustration with Prometheus. He took the "alien" out of Alien.
Quote from: BringbackJonesy! on Jan 02, 2017, 02:36:49 AM
Going back to these PROMETHEUS movies however, I would have preferred a storyline which kept the 'Xenomorph' eggs (along with the 'Queen') as having evolved in a truly independent, 'alien' manner on some far-flung planet with difficult conditions...rather than ending up as some kind of developed 'bio-weaponry' by 'tall humanoids'...which seems to be the direction Ridley's going.
Fair enough, if that's the way he wanted to set these creatures up...but I REALLY could have done without him involving the 'tall humanoids' as being instrumental in OUR develpment too!!
This this this that and this! The Alien movies were always enjoyable because they were about the story of Ripley and her survival against the Xenos. The focus was never on where they came from, but rather, dealing with them on a scene to scene thrill ride, let alone throwing mankind's creation into the mix. Perhaps the possible extinction, sure, but never creation. Had he left that out, Prometheus would still be a movie about scientists following a star map from extraterrestrials, finding their remains, discovering that they are mad scientists building monsters in their little shop of horrors to bomb the Earth with! Their motive could literally be jealousy of mankind, their beautiful world, something like that.
Quote from: Deuterium on Jan 01, 2017, 09:14:20 AM
Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Jan 01, 2017, 01:33:52 AM
As one of the few Christians on the forum here, I read a lot of interesting posts to say the least.
If we respect each other and make sure to post SPOILERS when necessary, the forum will continue to thrive!
Also, I wouldn't believe a thing from 4chan. It literally is the collective cesspool of the internet.
You are not the only Christian, here, PRJ....so don't feel too lonely. I haven't posted in a few years, but used to be a regular. I agree with your post, completely. I am a scientist, by background, and accept the Modern Synthesis of Evolutionary Theory as the correct scientific explanation of life's development on Earth. With that said, I see the complex beauty, contingency, and the evolution of humanity (in the fullness of time) as a shining, ne plus ultra example of God's Providence at work in our physical Universe. In my personal case, it was the deeper study of physics and advanced mathematics which helped serve to reinforce my Faith. As a devout Catholic, we understand that there exists no contradiction or incompatibility between Faith and Science.
"Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth." "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are." -- CCC #159
Cheers,
John
Thank you for the kind sentiment Deuterium. Although I must admit we have doctrinal differences, I'm glad to hear you speak your heart. What are your thoughts on the Alien prequels then and where do you think the series is going? Feel free to DM if needed.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 02, 2017, 05:16:09 PM
Sagardoa messaged me again, and he dropped an inetersting tidbit.
Spoiler
Apparently at one point two kinds of alien fight, allowing the humans to get away. So maybe the Neomorphs fight Big Chap?
Was worried this would happen.
Spoiler
hope this doesn't end up a predators/jurrasic park 3 scenario. Would have rather had the big chap become the alpha of the neomorphs and leads them to fight the engineers
I think the important thing here is the word 'apparently'.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: PRJ_since1990 on Jan 03, 2017, 01:08:42 AM
Thank you for the kind sentiment Deuterium. Although I must admit we have doctrinal differences, I'm glad to hear you speak your heart. What are your thoughts on the Alien prequels then and where do you think the series is going? Feel free to DM if needed.
Hi PRJ,
Firstly, a brief sideline / segue related to previous post...
I just wanted to clarify that the Catholic Church has not made a dogmatic declaration or doctrinal definition when it comes to the Creation timeline and duration of events. A Catholic is free to believe in a literalistic interpretation (i.e. six 24-hour days), or to interpret and understand the Creation narrative in a more figurative, allegorical (and anagogical) manner. The Church teaches, unambiguously, that all of Sacred Scripture is the inspired Word of God, and affirms it's inerrancy. However, there is no question that the Bible, nor the inspired authors, ever intended to present a scientific account of Creation. The inerrancy needs to be understood in light of the four senses of Scripture, as well as the distinction between interpreting the Bible literally (which we do), or interpreting the Bible literalisticaly. The "literal" meaning of a passage of Scripture is the meaning that the author of that passage of Scripture intended to convey. The "literalist" interpretation of a passage of Scripture is: "that's what it says, that's what it means." The latter has to be handled with more care, and with a firm grasp on the style and genre that the inspired author was writing.
The 73 books of the Bible are written by many inspired authors, who are writing in many different genres, across a great span of time. Certain books (such as the Gospels, Acts, and many of the Epistles) are straightforward historical accounts. Others, such as Revelation and the Book of Daniel belong to Apocalyptic genre. Still other books are written in the style and genre of prophecies, allegories, parables, poetry, songs, etc.
So, to be clear, most Church scholars, including many of the Early Church Fathers, do not hold a "literalistic" interpretation of Genesis, although they all hold a "literal" interpretation. This would also be the case for the Orthodox Church, as well as most main-line Protestant denominations.
Now, back to your question on my thoughts/opinions on Prometheus, and the state of the Alien franchise, in general. Please keep in mind that everything to follow is simply my humble opinion (obviously).
I won't pull any punches. I absolutely loathed Prometheus. IMHO, it was a beautifully filmed mess. I was offended by the bad science that riddles the film, as well as the bad scientists making outrageously stupid decisions. Also, there is the ridiculous retcon of the once mysterious, eerie, unsettling, disturbing and utterly alien Space Jockey. Now, it becomes nothing more than an exo-suit worn by a big, blue human. Of course, we have the ill conceived "Chariots of the gods" storyline to thank for that. Even that wouldn't have been so bad, if Lindelof and Scott had maintained a truly inscrutable and utterly alien high tech civilization as the so-called "engineers". Heck, I wouldn't even have had a problem with an alien Space Jockey race interacting with and influencing ancient human culture. But Lindelof/Scott had to shoehorn in a lame "they were our creators", we were "made in their image" twist and anti-religious corruption of authentic Judeo-Christian belief. Then, there is the sheer laziness of non-explanation, via the introduction of a magical "black goo". How I hate the "black goo" trope. Finally, we have the not-so-subtle atheist agenda shoved in our face, with the character of Shaw facing a crisis and then losing her Faith. Seems like we can never get a story of someone, when faced with a spiritual crisis, finding the strength (working through Grace) to persevere and triumphantly reaffirm and renew their Faith with a deeper and abiding conviction. I guess that wouldn't be "edgy" enough. ::)
So, to sum up, my favorite films of the franchise are:
#1) Alien (by a country mile) -- pretty much a "perfect" film, like "Jaws" or "Raiders of the Lost Ark".
#2) Aliens -- excellent film in it's own right, and a great action flick. However, I have issues with how Cameron reduced the fantastical, biomechanical, Lovecraftian Alien into something that is little more than a glorified insect (hence "bug-hunt"), complete with a Queen termite. The original nightmare fuel, the "perfect organism", has been transformed into a rather mundane bullet-sponge.
#3) Alien 3
Cheers,
John
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Dec 31, 2016, 03:52:51 AM
4Chan was pre reshoots yes?
No, post. It's why he may have found the ending a bit confusing. Apparently it was telegraphed a lot more obviously in the earlier screening.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Dec 31, 2016, 01:53:55 AM
Just thinking to myself, who in the right mind would leak such info on imdb of all places, they have almost everything needed to bust one's ass on completely legal grounds with standing. This is stealing cable illegal with or without a NDA.
It's a very frequent occurance and they happen on all sorts of dubious outlets that people don't take seriously.
Quote from: Enoch on Dec 31, 2016, 01:17:07 PM
Trust me on this. I havent believed it myself till now... :) They are completely true.
I thought you were going to go into the screen still firmly denying them. :laugh:
Quote from: Ingwar on Dec 31, 2016, 03:02:14 PM
Sagardoa and 4chan haven't seen the final cut. Besides 4chan doesn't look like die-hard Alien fan so perhaps he didn't pay attention enough to the details.
Completely true. We still don't know what other changes might occur between then and now. Reactions I heard to that last screening were quite positive though.
Quote from: windebieste on Jan 01, 2017, 01:58:20 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! So true. At least don't rely solely on 4Chan as a reliable source - always get your information verified if it comes from 4Chan.
I did. Otherwise I never would have said it sounded legit. Just wanted people who wanted to go in spoiler-free warned away from it.
So for those who have read the spoilers, with a simple yes or no, does it sound like we've got a good movie on our hands?
Quote from: Godzillakuj94 on Jan 03, 2017, 09:20:14 AM
So for those who have read the spoilers, with a simple yes or no, does it sound like we've got a good movie on our hands?
If the spoilers are true, then it would appear (to me) that Covenant will have many problematic elements, both in story/narrative as well as character reactions and motivations. There may well be a disturbance in the force. :'(
To me it sounds like a great movie. .a nice combination of alien and prometheus and i enjoyed both. .is everyone gonna love it. .? ofcause not. . But i think i will.
So the spoilers are most likely true? hmm...
Spoiler
you know what, I can live with David bombing the shit out of the engineers. Hell maybe he did it because he knows that they are evil and the only way to save mankind was to waste them like figgy pudding. Cause I just don't know about David being "that" evil. Yea I know "the secret is not minding that it hurts" and all but shit. Oh well I guess David can redeem himself in the sequel.
Quote from: juxtapose on Jan 03, 2017, 09:41:57 AM
To me it sounds like a great movie. .a nice combination of alien and prometheus and i enjoyed both. .is everyone gonna love it. .? ofcause not. . But i think i will.
I think this one is going to have a really steep uphill battle to face. Prometheus pissed off some Alien fans so much that Fox wanted to steer it back towards Alien so there's going to be some expectation from Alien fans who will likely be pissed off that it's still including elements of Prometheus. Then we're going to have fan of Prometheus that might be pissed off that it's steering off-course and heading back to Alien.
Hopefully it'll end up being a well rounded film and from what I've heard, the recent screening was actually pretty tight and put together.
Personally, I'm going into this movie looking on it as the 2nd half of PROMETHEUS, rather than looking on it as a 'standalone' - I have a hard time believing that it's gonna make much sense to those that haven't seen PROMETHEUS first, but who knows?, perhaps some of that movie's content will be reprised by dialogue exposition of some sort.
I'm interested to see if the 'black goo' will be fully explained this time around - I'm going to make a guess is that it might turn out to be the naturally-growing 'black spores' on the planet 'Paradise' which is the initial source of producing that.
Either way, at this point I'm more interested in what how the 'black goo' supposedly came about in the first place, rather than how it was eventually used by others.
Quote from: BringbackJonesy! on Jan 03, 2017, 11:43:22 AM
Personally, I'm going into this movie looking on it as the 2nd half of PROMETHEUS, rather than looking on it as a 'standalone' - I have a hard time believing that it's gonna make much sense to those that haven't seen PROMETHEUS first, but who knows?
Yeah I think this would be the best way to view the film. From what we know so far the film would be better off being called Prometheus Covenant as it as serving as part 2 of that story.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 04:20:44 AM
Sagardoa just got back to me, and yeah, he backed up what 4chan guy said. Spoiler
No Engineers other than the flashback where David kills them all.
This really worries me. I know that what I "expect" is of no interest to anybody, really. Even though I am a dying fan.
Spoiler
However, killing of all engineers, just like that, seems rather dumb. Unless they are present on other planets etc. If this will appear to be true, I will be very disappointed, but that's just me. This may backfire at Fox, as keeping Engineers and their lore for the sequel or a movie further down the line, may appear to people as too much of a wait. People may show less interest. I genuinely hope that things change.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Dec 31, 2016, 03:01:37 PM
Quote"We're not just a random biological accident," he insisted. "For you and I to be sitting here right now [by accident] would take trillions of correct decisions to be made randomly by nature, which of course is ridiculous.
Damm Ridley is completely ignorant to how evolution works, he may know how to make movies but in regards for science he have the mental capacity of a 12 year old.
Was he home-schooled n religious upbringing? That tends to fudge up peoples brains...
Quote from: axor993 on Jan 03, 2017, 03:32:46 PM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 04:20:44 AM
Sagardoa just got back to me, and yeah, he backed up what 4chan guy said. Spoiler
No Engineers other than the flashback where David kills them all.
This really worries me. I know that what I "expect" is of no interest to anybody, really. Even though I am a dying fan. Spoiler
However, killing of all engineers, just like that, seems rather dumb. Unless they are present on other planets etc. If this will appear to be true, I will be very disappointed, but that's just me. This may backfire at Fox, as keeping Engineers and their lore for the sequel or a movie further down the line, may appear to people as too much of a wait. People may show less interest. I genuinely hope that things change.
Added spoiler tags. Hicks.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect there's likely other Engineers dotted around on other outposts or colonies throughout the galaxy.
Quote from: Astronoë on Jan 03, 2017, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Dec 31, 2016, 03:01:37 PM
Quote"We're not just a random biological accident," he insisted. "For you and I to be sitting here right now [by accident] would take trillions of correct decisions to be made randomly by nature, which of course is ridiculous.
Damm Ridley is completely ignorant to how evolution works, he may know how to make movies but in regards for science he have the mental capacity of a 12 year old.
Was he home-schooled n religious upbringing? That tends to fudge up peoples brains...
Chill out with the insults please. We have religious members here that don't warrant your attacks. Only warning.
Quote from: axor993 on Jan 03, 2017, 03:32:46 PM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Dec 31, 2016, 04:20:44 AM
Sagardoa just got back to me, and yeah, he backed up what 4chan guy said. Spoiler
No Engineers other than the flashback where David kills them all.
This really worries me. I know that what I "expect" is of no interest to anybody, really. Even though I am a dying fan. However, killing of all engineers, just like that, seems rather dumb. Unless they are present on other planets etc. If this will appear to be true, I will be very disappointed, but that's just me. This may backfire at Fox, as keeping Engineers and their lore for the sequel or a movie further down the line, may appear to people as too much of a wait. People may show less interest. I genuinely hope that things change.
My biggest issue is that Scott is doing the whole bait and switch on us. Pre-Promtheus he was telling us that he wanted to explore the space Jockey. He wanted to tell their story. Instead we got 15 minutes of roid rage.
We learned they seeded life on many planets, we learned they seeded humans, we learned they have really poor quality video surveillance systems, we learned they aren't very good at keeping their creations under control, and we learned they had at some point decided to hit ctrl-alt-del on earth. We really know nothing about their culture, who they are, or what their overall goals include.
I could honestly care less about the Xeno or other random creations themselves, but I do find them interesting as a tool of the engineers because it lends insight into their world.
At least now we know where all those eggs on LV426 come from.
Quote from: Mustangjeff on Jan 03, 2017, 04:11:40 PM
I could honestly care less about the Xeno or other random creations themselves, but I do find them interesting as a tool of the engineers because it lends insight into their world.
That's one of the things I find interesting about the concept of Aliens being an ancient artificial creation. It implies quite some power in their creators and also in some major threat that they needed to face.
Engineers are just an ancient human race... first ones. Everyone want to imitate their masters (gods/creators), so they just copied the patterns of God, or perhaps the patterns of their creators (some ancient sentient race/ maybe the Xenolike sentient beings/mural in the pyramid is in accordance with this theory). I speculated long ago that Engineers were given the sacred right to use the agent of life to create life in accordance to divine law... to sacrifice their life in order to create new. Some rebellious group stole the agent from their GODS and used it to enhance their bodies (bio suit resembling the Xeno exoskeleton), their technology and eventually they used it to create new lifeforms, or perhaps to create something that could destroy their parents (gods), instead that very weapon (agent or perhaps the blood of the primordial creator) they stole and tempered with on LV-223 turned against them or perhaps someone came and let loose some other weapon on them and destroyed every Engineers (except the last one) before they could leave for Earth to complete their plan. Thats about Engineers story. Perhaps there are begins way above them in cosmic hierarchy. Maybe the wall mural with crucified Xenolike entity shows what Engineers did with their Gods, the very same thing humans allegedly did to their Gods (engineers / Christ). Fine parable. Except every entity in the equation (humans, engineers, jockeys) forgot the one thing - there is always someone on the top of the pyramid... The all-seeing Eye!! :)
So are the spoilers true? Hicks can you confirm?
Disappointing that Scott doesn't understand evolution. Its not a random process.
Quote from: Enoch on Jan 03, 2017, 04:51:27 PM
Engineers are just an ancient human race... first ones. Everyone want to imitate their masters (gods/creators), so they just copied the patterns of God, or perhaps the patterns of their creators (some ancient sentient race/ maybe the Xenolike sentient beings/mural in the pyramid is in accordance with this theory). I speculated long ago that Engineers were given the sacred right to use the agent of life to create life in accordance to divine law... to sacrifice their life in order to create new. Some rebellious group stole the agent from their GODS and used it to enhance their bodies (bio suit resembling the Xeno exoskeleton), their technology and eventually they used it to create new lifeforms, or perhaps to create something that could destroy their parents (gods), instead that very weapon (agent or perhaps the blood of the primordial creator) they stole and tempered with on LV-223 turned against them or perhaps someone came and let loose some other weapon on them and destroyed every Engineers (except the last one) before they could leave for Earth to complete their plan. Thats about Engineers story. Perhaps there are begins way above them in cosmic hierarchy. Maybe the wall mural with crucified Xenolike entity shows what Engineers did with their Gods, the very same thing humans allegedly did to their Gods (engineers / Christ). Fine parable. Except every entity in the equation (humans, engineers, jockeys) forgot the one thing - there is always someone on the top of the pyramid... The all-seeing Eye!! :)
Hopefully we'll find out about the Engineers from David. It's better than nothing I guess.
It would be much more interesting to learn about the Engineers through first hand interactions. But I'd take David regurgitating information in a scene of exposition versus nothing at all.
Quote from: Spiderpope on Jan 03, 2017, 06:25:04 PM
Disappointing that Scott doesn't understand evolution. Its not a random process.
Well, that is not quite true. The first part of the process is random, i.e. mutation to genome. It is the 2nd part that is non-random,...i.e. Natural Selection working upon the expressed mutation (phenotype), typically at the organism level, and differentially selecting that adaptation best conferring survival/reproductive advantage in a changing local environment.
Who are we to question nature... who are we to qualify the ways of nature as random...
we can only observe, learn but our own judgments are irrelevant... Till yesterday
we spoke about lightening as if it was a sign of God... and now we took the right to
qualify things as random and yet we do not fully understand the meaning of random or
causal...
Quote from: Enoch on Jan 03, 2017, 08:24:40 PM
Who are we to question nature... who are we to qualify the ways of nature as random...
we can only observe, learn but our own judgments are irrelevant... Till yesterday
we spoke about lightening as if it was a sign of God... and now we took the right to
qualify things as random and yet we do not fully understand the meaning of random or
causal...
Hello Enoch,
I certainty am not questioning Nature, nor the inscrutable Wisdom of our Creator, which completely transcends our finite intellect. However, from a purely scientific perspective , a purely random (stochastic) process has a precise definition and understanding. With that said, it is my belief that what will forever be a non-deterministic event or process, for our finite intellect, is completely known (determined) by an infinite Creator.
Mutation is random. Evolution through natural selection is not, the process is not a random one. Unfortunately it looks like Covenant is going to be as unscientific as Prometheus.
" purely random (stochastic) process has a precise definition and understanding"
Why do we call them random in the first place... If we have an explanation, definition and understanding of them..then they are not random. They do not need to be tagged as stochastic or deterministic because all divisions are limiting in their nature... all divisions and classifications are deterministic... We humans tend to be too deterministic and chained by the limitations of our understandings (systems) and interpretations... while our "Creator" or Logos or Cosmos (however you wan to call it) is certainly liberated from those chains of determinism, certainty, randomness and something we call reason... etc. God is reason per se and therefore is infinite, while human reason is by nature limited within itself... To understand something like cosmos and "laws of very existence" we would need more than science and our current rationality. We need to free the mind of all limitations... but again, how can someone do that... as you said, with our FINITE intellect?
Quote from: Enoch on Jan 03, 2017, 04:51:27 PM
instead that very weapon (agent or perhaps the blood of the primordial creator) they stole and tempered with on LV-223 turned against them
Ridley Scott once referred to the Black Goo as "evil bacteriology."
Fire and Stone says the Goo has constantly changing DNA, as if it cannot decide what it is.
So - DNA + "Bacteria" = it could be alive. Viruses are just proteins with shards of DNA, but bacteria are simple single cellular life.
So, the "Gods" could ironically be a form of bacteria or other single celled life that eventually gives rise to more complex life. And the "Gods" are a unique type, perhaps more aware.
Maybe as you mentioned, it didn't just turn on them, it punished them for trying to use it for their own gains rather than the purpose of creating life.
Those are some interesting theories you shared that got me thinking about it a bit. I've always found the Black Goo to be really fascinating and would love to see what else it does.
Remember how Elden became a walking Genesis? Every step he took, plants and trees grew? Amazing! The ship bridge he sat in eventually became an Eden.
So the ones the engineers truly fear are their very own beloved parents? Oh man this race has some major daddy issues.
Although what if God was bacteria, cough midichlorians... I don't like where this is going but it sure sounds like this is where it's going.
I also dont like the idea of God being bacteria... :laugh:
But Goo could certainly be something Engineers found
somewhere in their Eden (perhaps it was guarded by that
first xenolike entity) and some of them used it to create life
sacrificing themselves for that cause and others used it for
their selfish intentions... and then something happened to them.
Goo is more similar to Eitir than pure organic mutagen, accelerant or
some microorganism... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eitr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eitr)
Ridley spoke about goo in directors commentary, he compared it to ebola saying that Engineers made it...
I never liked that explanation. He even spoke about ceiling mural... he said it depicts some kind of self sacrificing
of that humanoid figure in order to complete the last phase of that "dangerous creation" as Ridley described it.
I think the source is that green stone 😉
just like in the color from outer space by lovecraft .
it fell to their planet and the radiation causes mutations in everything it reaches , they placed it in that room with the urns acting like batteries ..... soaking up the radiation 😊😊😊
Quote from: Enoch on Jan 03, 2017, 09:14:14 PM
" purely random (stochastic) process has a precise definition and understanding"
Why do we call them random in the first place... If we have an explanation, definition and understanding of them..then they are not random. They do not need to be tagged as stochastic or deterministic because all divisions are limiting in their nature... all divisions and classifications are deterministic... We humans tend to be too deterministic and chained by the limitations of our understandings (systems) and interpretations... while our "Creator" or Logos or Cosmos (however you wan to call it) is certainly liberated from those chains of determinism, certainty, randomness and something we call reason... etc. God is reason per se and therefore is infinite, while human reason is by nature limited within itself... To understand something like cosmos and "laws of very existence" we would need more than science and our current rationality. We need to free the mind of all limitations... but again, how can someone do that... as you said, with our FINITE intellect?
Hi Enoch,
I agree. I thought that was exactly what I just wrote. Please read once again...
Quote from: Deuterium on Jan 03, 2017, 08:56:33 PM
With that said, it is my belief that what will forever be a non-deterministic event or process, for our finite intellect, is completely known (determined) by an infinite Creator.
Quote from: Spiderpope on Jan 03, 2017, 09:01:09 PM
Mutation is random. Evolution through natural selection is not, the process is not a random one. Unfortunately it looks like Covenant is going to be as unscientific as Prometheus.
Hello Spiderpope,
Yikes...whiplash.
I believe that is exactly what I just explained. Please re-read my prior post/reply to you.
Quote from: Deuterium on Jan 03, 2017, 07:51:03 PM
Well, that is not quite true. The first part of the process is random, i.e. mutation of the genome. It is the 2nd part that is non-random,...i.e. Natural Selection working upon the expressed mutation (phenotype), typically at the organism level, and differentially selecting that adaptation best conferring survival/reproductive advantage in a changing local environment.
Cheers,
John
But who created the Goo?
In the end, I'm not sure I want all of these questions answered, these aren't the reason we want to watch these movies...it was the mystery and fear of not knowing that appealed.
Quote from: Deuterium on Jan 03, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
Hi Enoch,
I agree. I thought that was exactly what I just wrote. Please read once again...
Quote from: Deuterium on Jan 03, 2017, 08:56:33 PM
With that said, it is my belief that what will forever be a non-deterministic event or process, for our finite intellect, is completely known (determined) by an infinite Creator.
Yes, I know we agree about that. I ve read all your previous posts...
You know some serious stuff. :D Fine "reasoning". ;D
Wish you all the best.
Quote from: Game_Over_Man on Jan 03, 2017, 10:58:14 PM
But who created the Goo?
In the end, I'm not sure I want all of these questions answered, these aren't the reason we want to watch these movies...it was the mystery and fear of not knowing that appealed.
I think we need some mystery... at this point, Space Jockey mystery from alien
is pretty diminished by the introduction of Engineers... now we need some serious
mysteries and of course some answers.
Doesn't David say something like "in order to create you must destroy"-or am I imagining that? Seems to be taken straight from the Engineers' playbook though. They did that at the beginning of Prometheus (even if it seemed somewhat benign).
Quote from: Enoch on Jan 03, 2017, 11:04:03 PM
Yes, I know we agree about that. I ve read all your previous posts...
You know some serious stuff. :D Fine "reasoning". ;D
Wish you all the best.
Thanks, Enoch. Same here. 8)
Cheers, mate.
Quote from: Enoch on Jan 03, 2017, 09:14:14 PM
" purely random (stochastic) process has a precise definition and understanding"
Why do we call them random in the first place... If we have an explanation, definition and understanding of them..then they are not random. They do not need to be tagged as stochastic or deterministic because all divisions are limiting in their nature... all divisions and classifications are deterministic... We humans tend to be too deterministic and chained by the limitations of our understandings (systems) and interpretations... while our "Creator" or Logos or Cosmos (however you wan to call it) is certainly liberated from those chains of determinism, certainty, randomness and something we call reason... etc. God is reason per se and therefore is infinite, while human reason is by nature limited within itself... To understand something like cosmos and "laws of very existence" we would need more than science and our current rationality. We need to free the mind of all limitations... but again, how can someone do that... as you said, with our FINITE intellect?
God its a human concept...our finite intellect it what makes "god" the first answer for questions we dont know how tondeal with "yet"
@ Enoch and seegson
the prometheus scans showed the environment to be toxic ?
the crew wore protective gear ........
the crews scans show the environment within the structures to be clean .......
NOBODY died of airborne pathogens......... the scans were 100% correct
your points are COMPLETELY pointless
even in covenant they are infected by an alien lifeform .... NOT airborne viruses or disease , which I'm also sure the covenants scans will show to be none existing .
Quote from: prometheusfire08 on Jan 05, 2017, 05:36:28 PM
@ Enoch and seegson
the prometheus scans showed the environment to be toxic ?
the crew wore protective gear ........
the crews scans show the environment within the structures to be clean .......
NOBODY died of airborne pathogens......... the scans were 100% correct
your points are COMPLETELY pointless
even in covenant they are infected by an alien lifeform .... NOT airborne viruses or disease , which I'm also sure the covenants scans will show to be none existing .
We dont know yet abour Covenant. The planet could be totally analized before. BUT in prometheus its a no-sense. Their scans were used to find out if the air was bretheable ..not to find bio-pathogens.
The real reason they don't wear spacesuits our bio suits is because Hollywood want you to be able to see who talking and who doing what all actor are vain and want to be seen on camera plus the big studio boss think we want be able to work out what's going on
no they scanned the molecular composition of the planet aswell..........
how would you imagine them picking up never before encountered organisms without having the previous data to recognise and confirm that data ?
with the amount of Arial and antenna featured on the ship prometheus I doubt they only scanned for breathable air ......
my point is this , we didn't see shaws inception or birth , by your logic she shouldn't even be in the movie because we didn't see her birth .......
we don't get to see captain janeks parents raising him correctly so Scott took major liberties in just expecting us to except him as the pilot of a very expensive ship.
Quote from: prometheusfire08 on Jan 03, 2017, 10:40:16 PM
I think the source is that green stone 😉
just like in the color from outer space by lovecraft .
it fell to their planet and the radiation causes mutations in everything it reaches , they placed it in that room with the urns acting like batteries ..... soaking up the radiation 😊😊😊
If only we would get something like this.. how lucky would we be?!
Quote from: lv_226 on Jan 06, 2017, 07:26:29 PM
Quote from: prometheusfire08 on Jan 03, 2017, 10:40:16 PM
I think the source is that green stone 😉
just like in the color from outer space by lovecraft .
it fell to their planet and the radiation causes mutations in everything it reaches , they placed it in that room with the urns acting like batteries ..... soaking up the radiation 😊😊😊
If only we would get something like this.. how lucky would we be?!
That would be nice, but unfortunately I think it was a case where someone thought a gem would look better than a bowl.
Perhaps someone was rooting around an old prop room and came across the gem used in the movie, "Romancing the Stone" :)
(https://www.yourprops.com/movieprops/original/47b2283ec665a/Romancing-the-Stone-Romancing-The-Stone-Emerald-1.jpg)
I think thats not case when we speak about Ridley Scotts movies. People could
dislike his movies an his storytelling but everything in his films is deliberate and
with purpose. There is a great symbolic meaning behind that emerald crystal. Whether
that fact is going to have some significance in later movies or not is irrelevant.
Quote from: Enoch on Jan 06, 2017, 09:21:53 PM
I think thats not case when we speak about Ridley Scotts movies. People could
dislike his movies an his storytelling but everything in his films is deliberate and
with purpose. There is a great symbolic meaning behind that emerald crystal. Whether
that fact is going to have some significance in later movies or not is irrelevant.
I think he's a great visual director. And like an artist, he has a great feel for atmosphere and aesthetics. I don't necessarily agree that all his visual cues and choices are done with deliberate meaning and intention in mind (beyond visual appearance). I honestly think the bowl was replaced with the gem because the gem sparkled and drew attention when Holloway shined his light on it. If RS has said differently, I'll stand corrected.
in miltons paradise .......
Satan attains many special stones for his crown , the center peice was a green emerald he aquired from the neutral angels .
this emerald gave him the power to transform humans into demons 😉😉😉
big words and big thoughts in a movie...where is a shower sex death scene. cmon
Quote from: prometheusfire08 on Jan 06, 2017, 09:47:55 PM
in miltons paradise .......
Satan attains many special stones for his crown , the center peice was a green emerald he aquired from the neutral angels .
this emerald gave him the power to transform humans into demons 😉😉😉
Correct.
Quote from: szkoki on Jan 06, 2017, 10:20:47 PM
big words and big thoughts in a movie...where is a shower sex death scene. cmon
Has it occurred to you that the process of the creation of Life and the notion of Mortality may be connected? One is the beginning - the other is the end.
-Windebieste.
just to add a little more umph to my proposed theory
in the Greek comparative for the war in heaven ( titanochamy ?)
the Titan prometheus was a member of the neutrals who provided weapons and tech ( green gem ) to Zeus ( lucifer )so he could win his war .
prometheus and his group agreed to this with their reward being allowed to create life 😉