So I just came up with an idea that they put a lot of thought and effort into creating all these different locales (talking about the ones that were shown as conceptual pieces of artwork a couple of years ago) but they were eventually forced to scrap it altogether and they had a strict deadline to meet so they just put whatever they could in a haphazard fashion without as much love as they originally wanted when they were in full control and opted for an "auteur" vision. That could justify every single mishap that hitherto happened in the development of the latest, final build...Do you think that was the case?
They just put a lot of time doing story-boarding and pre-production, and SEGA scrapped EVERYTHING so they have to cling to a last-resort effort and basically recycle the material from movies...And of course they didn't have too much time to do that...
They built the game from the ground up and they are trying to cater to the widest audience possible. I don't think their vision for A:CM was compromised by some sort of nefarious meddling by SEGA halfway through development, forcing them to start over from scratch.
I think that GBX was well-intentioned and that, to some extent, we should feel fortunate that we got a game at all.
While I don't think that GBX had a strict deadline to meet since the game was pushed back countless times since its announcement, I do think that, much like Alien3, they scrapped some pretty interesting ideas for the sake of familiarity and, separately, for what they believed "the fans would want."
The game appears to play it safe on one hand while pushing the boundaries of the universe on another. I'd be more willing to accept the new xeno varieties if they emerged out of other settings on different planets inhabited by different creatures (earth-based or not). But the fact that they are using places we already know and manipulating things with hap-hazard rationales for all the new stuff suggests a half-assed approach to the whole game rather than the dedicated assurances we've got over and over again from GBX about "authenticity."
I still don't see how this game is suppose to make Alien3 better, either.
Who knows, they might've caved in from pressure from FOX or just got too caught up with other projects to see their original vision of A:CM all the way through.
I don't believe Gearbox was forced to scrap some things, if that were true, they would not be mouthing off about how detailed and correct everything is.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 08, 2013, 08:34:34 PM
I don't believe Gearbox was forced to scrap some things, if that were true, they would not be mouthing off about how detailed and correct everything is.
That, and as others have said with regards to any pressures... This game missed it's curtain call by about what? 2? 3 years now? (Forgetting the PS2 version, which really is a wholly different game beyond the base concepts.)
It's simple. Gearbox overlooked somethings, and made some choices gameplay wise that are suspect. A lot of the issues can actually be traced to the conceptual stage more than anything. I mean, the game does have some pretty nice assets. Things look good in the broad sense. Like the movie. There were some comparison shots a few years ago locations between the game and the movie. So that's all good. So like, the Alien warrior as an example. It looks pretty close to the Winston version of the suit. Probably the closest we've had in the games ever. The problem is in the concept of the way the warrior is treated as opposition. It's dumb, doesn't react fast enough, and it's general size is really quite small. It does not feel as imposing or threatening as it did within the movie. All of that is conceptual, and can frankly can be changed relatively easily. Scale the aliens up, maybe 10%. Speed up their reaction time a bit. Add in acid/additional acid damage.
Oh, and Gearbox really needs to look at FEAR for an example on how to do really good damage decals for walls. Take those kind of decals and use them for the acid damage effects. That would be really fantastic.
Quote from: Predaker on Feb 08, 2013, 08:33:51 PM
I think the comments about making Alien3 a better movie are mostly centered around the man wearing a hood in the story trailer.
The great fan debate about Alien3 never really circulated around the death of Hicks...that is accepted by anyone that accepts Alien3. The debate was about how the egg got on the Sulaco. If GBX wanted to make Alien3 better, that's the only thing they needed to address.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 08, 2013, 08:34:34 PM
I don't believe Gearbox was forced to scrap some things, if that were true, they would not be mouthing off about how detailed and correct everything is.
You might be right but how would we know for sure? If they were always going to make money based on the franchise alone, maybe that was a good-enough reason to get lazy with their concept. Or maybe FOX got involved and screwed things up or maybe SEGA wanted to see a profit asap and forced them to rush the project.
I have a feeling that we can debate all of these things to no end much like we have debated the production shortcomings of Alien3 since 1992. Haha.
Quote from: Ash 937 on Feb 08, 2013, 08:41:49 PM
Quote from: Predaker on Feb 08, 2013, 08:33:51 PM
I think the comments about making Alien3 a better movie are mostly centered around the man wearing a hood in the story trailer.
The great fan debate about Alien3 never really circulated around the death of Hicks...that is accepted by anyone that accepts Alien3. The debate was about how the egg got on the Sulaco. If GBX wanted to make Alien3 better, that's the only thing they needed to address.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 08, 2013, 08:34:34 PM
I don't believe Gearbox was forced to scrap some things, if that were true, they would not be mouthing off about how detailed and correct everything is.
You might be right but how would we know for sure? If they were always going to make money based on the franchise alone, maybe that was a good-enough reason to get lazy with their concept. Or maybe FOX got involved and screwed things up or maybe SEGA wanted to see a profit asap and forced them to rush the project.
I have a feeling that we can debate all of these things to no end much like we have debated the production shortcomings of Alien3 since 1992. Haha.
I just find it hard to believe that they would still continue to talk about the accuracy of the game when( if the situation of Gearbox being messed around with by the higher ups is true) they obviously know that it's all a lie.
I get the feeling this turned out the way it did due to DNF fever. Originally DNF stalled, again and again, due to the original creators aying "This would be so cool!" and adding anything and everything to the game, including 4+ engine changes. I get the impression Randy P got to put everything he wanted into the game, with no-one there to slap him upside the head and say "Dude, that's not f**king cool at all".
The buggyness, glitchyness and general feeling of being unfinished, I'd attribute to SEGA/Fox. With the game finally in a playable state, I imagine the last quarter of development to be rushed as hell just to get it out the door and start to see a return on investment.
i cant imagine how could they put together such a game like this in 3+ years while AVP2010 was pretty decent and was delivered in one year or one and half
GBX fu*cked this up, admit it...heads will fall....has to fall, Pitchford's or someone's at Sega who choosed GBX, i hope it will fail and does not get the profit with they would be proud so next time Sega consider multiple times whos gonna hire for an alien game
Nobody at gearbox is leaking complaints about the game's development. As already said, it kept getting pushed back.
This is simply how they wanted it to be. Look at the video which got released a couple of years ago. The same kind of basic game mechanics are there. There's no evidence that it was some kind of brilliant artistic masterpiece before Sega somehow took it apart.
It is what it is. Unless evidence to the contrary ever arises, it's also largely what it was intended to be.
Well, I would like to share something that may be relevant in this thread. I'm not sure if you all remember or not, but a powerpoint presentation was leaked by one of the game's designers, which expressed a handful of things that he would have done differently, if given the time.
If you remember, one of the things he would do all over again with the game is just start from scratch and re-skin the Left for Dead video game. I think there's a lot we can take away from that statement, but one of the main take-aways is that there were compromises that had to be made and all signs suggest that a deadline by Sega is what led them to deliver what many consider to be a "broken," buggy, glitchy product.
u guys r talking about this deadline thing like GBX would had only 1 year to make a game....how long has been this game under development? deadline my ass...lazy work as shit, sure every cancelled release date results even worse graphics but cmon....who cares about the graphics? no one would if it would be a decent, creative, bug-free game
Quote from: Robness Monster on Feb 08, 2013, 11:52:08 PM
Well, I would like to share something that may be relevant in this thread. I'm not sure if you all remember or not, but a powerpoint presentation was leaked by one of the game's designers, which expressed a handful of things that he would have done differently, if given the time.
Can you find a link for this?
Quote from: Robness Monster on Feb 08, 2013, 11:52:08 PM
If you remember, one of the things he would do all over again with the game is just start from scratch and re-skin the Left for Dead video game.
That sounds f**king desperate if all he wanted to do is just simply make a mod of L4D into a 60 dollar game.
Quote from: Robness Monster on Feb 08, 2013, 11:52:08 PM
Well, I would like to share something that may be relevant in this thread. I'm not sure if you all remember or not, but a powerpoint presentation was leaked by one of the game's designers, which expressed a handful of things that he would have done differently, if given the time.
Do you have a link? I don't think I ever saw this.
QuoteIf you remember, one of the things he would do all over again with the game is just start from scratch and re-skin the Left for Dead video game.
Well, that's effectively what they already did, so, I doubt
literally doing so would have changed much. Made it cheaper, maybe (to make and purchase).
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 09, 2013, 12:01:09 AM
That sounds f**king desperate if all he wanted to do is just simply make a mod of L4D into a 60 dollar game.
I'm going to be realistic and admit I'd probably still get it if they just straight up advertised it as a total conversion mod. I'd probably have more faith in it, knowing it has a solid gameplay foundation behind it, actually.
I'll be damned - I went through my post history at the Gearbox forums and the entire thread seems to have been erased. The thread had screen caps of the powerpoint where the Gearbox exec shared his thoughts on the conclusion of the project.
I'm going to keep on looking, but I'm sure there are others who got a chance to see the Gearbox executive's comments before they were deleted. Another thing I remember reading was that he wished that they could have focused more on creative a great FPS instead of being a slave to the license.
If anyone remembers these comments, please chime in with your thoughts, as they can be very relevant to the discussion now that we're seeing what the final product looks like and can read more into the types of things he was speaking about.
I'll go and look this up now. Be back in a few if I find anything.
My theory is that everything went downhill when they Replaced Bradley Thompson and David Weddle with whatever schmuck took over.
If it was following the project's conclusion, do you remember enough to remember if they were largely happy about the end result and just wanted to tweak it or more along the lines of thinking the product needed a complete rethink?
Ask ikarop, he knows. I read all six pages.
Just found the deleted thread on Google search and when I go to Gearbox, it tells me how it was removed. However, I was able to lift the exact quote from the powerpoint notes from the short description that was left behind by Google...
"I would have more game modes and focus less on the license AND MORE ON MAKING A GREAT FPS" - Gearbox designer
Edit: To me, it came off as largely negative, which can explain why Gearbox not only locked the topic, but deleted it from existence altogether. It came off as almost if Sega interfered with production and that a lot of limitations were placed on them from what they could do from a creative standpoint. But, I am really hoping someone saved the screen caps so we can further discuss things further. And it definitely was following the project's conclusion - I remember him titling the powerpoint as such.
Hmm... Interesting to know, but including more game modes wouldn't really address the gameplay criticisms raised after watching videos. I could be wrong, obviously, but doubt fixing those would've been interfered with by Sega.
An actual L4D reskin could have been excellent you know, replace the horde zombies with facehuggers, the special undead with drones. Bingo, swarms of scuttling, terrifying instant face rape death, and if you survive them the ultimate killing machine in the galaxy loving takes you away to a dark hole, where it would like to discuss the finer points of interior feng shui and massage. Possibly.
Quote from: Robness Monster on Feb 09, 2013, 12:26:55 AM
"focus less on the license AND MORE ON MAKING A GREAT FPS" - Gearbox designer
This right here shows that all Gearbox did was just jerk itself off with all this fanboy talk and shit. They didn't give a damn about the game itself, which is exactly what they should have been focusing on instead of squealing with orgasmic joy about the fact that they got the chance to work on a license that they are fans about. They completely lost their main focus and instead did what they shouldn't have done, which was just drool all over the ALIENS license.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 09, 2013, 12:33:42 AM
Quote from: Robness Monster on Feb 09, 2013, 12:26:55 AM
"focus less on the license AND MORE ON MAKING A GREAT FPS" - Gearbox designer
This right here shows that all Gearbox did was just jerk itself off with all this fanboy talk and shit. They didn't give a damn about the game itself, which is exactly what they should have been focusing on instead of squealing with orgasmic joy about the fact that they got the chance to work on a license that they are fans about. They completely lost their main focus and instead did what they shouldn't have done, which was just drool all over the ALIENS license.
The person who made that comment worked on the multiplayer, not singleplayer. He helped design four maps. I really suggest you read it all in context first.
In fairness, we don't know what being 'focused on the licence' meant. It could have been a criticism about spending too much time crafting the story (regardless of whether it was good/bad) and not enough on developing the actual game.
Quote from: Predaker on Feb 09, 2013, 12:36:18 AM
The person who made that comment worked on the multiplayer, not singleplayer. He helped design four maps. I really suggest you read it all in context first.
Much appreciated for those of us who didn't read it. :)
Quote from: Predaker on Feb 09, 2013, 12:36:18 AM
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 09, 2013, 12:33:42 AM
Quote from: Robness Monster on Feb 09, 2013, 12:26:55 AM
"focus less on the license AND MORE ON MAKING A GREAT FPS" - Gearbox designer
This right here shows that all Gearbox did was just jerk itself off with all this fanboy talk and shit. They didn't give a damn about the game itself, which is exactly what they should have been focusing on instead of squealing with orgasmic joy about the fact that they got the chance to work on a license that they are fans about. They completely lost their main focus and instead did what they shouldn't have done, which was just drool all over the ALIENS license.
The person who made that comment worked on the multiplayer, not singleplayer. He helped design four maps. I really suggest you read it all in context first.
Well if I had a link then I would actually be able to read it in proper context.
Sorry I can't find it right now, otherwise I would post it. Ikarop posted the link in one of the sticky threads recently.
Ikarop will find it, he always does. He like, f**king knows man!
Quote from: Predaker on Feb 09, 2013, 12:40:09 AM
Sorry I can't find it right now, otherwise I would post it. Ikarop posted the link in one of the sticky threads recently.
Ah, I'll go look for that.
A lot of bad things probably happened.
I could spot in several videos of gameplay missing polygons to mesh.
As I stated on GBX forums I just need to open Autodesk Maya, Select the Mesh, Shift + Right Mouse > Append Polygon tool and merge two edges so there's not backface culling missing face.
This is noob, this is really noob stuff and they had 6 years to do a 2 seconds job.
ALSO, if you take a look back to the first screenshot they uploaded, apart from the Gamma of pictures that wasn't correct due to the lack of ingame color correction I believe and / or the fact they probably did not set up at this early stage the Linear Workflow of the game, everything but sincerely EVERYTHING apart the alien mesh hasn't change a bit.
Even the shading/Lightning looks similar why they haven't stopped to tell us they were going to work with their own light system that was going to be spectacular.
I'm almost starting to think that this is an April fool. Ah no! Sorry! February is the month.
Found the actual post that Ikarop made about this...and it doesn't work anymore...all you can get is the image that Ikarop posted along with the link which no longer works.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=34412.msg1599951#msg1599951 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=34412.msg1599951#msg1599951)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.tinypic.com%2Fn3169y.jpg&hash=3bd0f19aad79627225fd42df000e77d59fd16279)
Regardless of what he designed, that final line saying that he wished they'd focused on the game rather than the license is completely true from we have seen in the last couple of days.
He is just making comments about what he would do without any constraints, not lambasting the game for trying too hard to be authentic. People read too much into these kinds of things and that is exactly why the link is broken now. The other five pages should be around here somewhere, someone saved the images I am sure.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 09, 2013, 12:47:14 AM
Found the actual post that Ikarop made about this...and it doesn't work anymore...all you can get is the image that Ikarop posted along with the link which no longer works.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=34412.msg1599951#msg1599951 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=34412.msg1599951#msg1599951)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.tinypic.com%2Fn3169y.jpg&hash=3bd0f19aad79627225fd42df000e77d59fd16279)
Regardless of what he designed, that final line saying that he wished they'd focused on the game rather than the license is completely true from we have seen in the last couple of days.
Funny, I just noticed that there's a lot of chance that this picture was rendered using VRay.
I can almost feel the pass of specular, diffuse, reflection, refraction, ID color correction, shadow map and Ambient Occlusion.
Or maybe they used some kind of advanced UT3 engine that doesn't do well with consoles.
If you look closely, all the aliens are in the exact same pose. Many of the shots of the game released at that time were mock ups.
Thank you for doing the research and finding the picture, ShadowPred. I had tried to find the information on the person's site as well, but couldn't find anything anymore. Well, now that the picture has resurfaced, it is what it is. Is the information alluding to a troubled production? Is it being misinterpreted? That's up to the reader to decide. All I know is that there are many people unhappy right now and it seems to me that this employee may have had special insight on how things were working on the inside regarding the game.
My major take-away from his final comment was "focusing less on the license and more on making a great FPS." That, to me, suggests that he didn't feel like that they were given the type of direction and support that would have allowed them to make a great FPS.
Quote from: Predaker on Feb 09, 2013, 12:53:55 AM
He is just making comments about what he would do without any constraints, not lambasting the game for trying too hard to be authentic. People read too much into these kinds of things and that is exactly why the link is broken now. The other five pages should be around here somewhere, someone saved the images I am sure.
Yeah, I can see what you're saying, but the comment, despite it being just about one guy talking about so and so - it's now even more relevant when you look at all the posts about this game, mostly all negative on this site. It actually does feel like the game was less focused on making a good game, and more about the license. I even felt this way before the game was even out, at least as recently as last month, I was hoping for this to no be the case, but all the people playing it have convinced me that I wasn't wrong in thinking the way I do.
is it a classic game?
no, that last classic avp game was avp2.
its even more populated then the avp 2010 game....
Im sure this game will also die a slow death do to the fact that its just a console port and wont allow mods...
Never yet played an AVP game which does justice to either of the licences it's based on.
That screen was interesting (and slightly alarming, since AVP 2010 disallowed crouching, but allowed light destruction, whereas this title seems to be the opposite), yet, doesn't address a single one of the gameplay issues which should have been improved.
The biggest flaw about the game, ironically, seems to be that everyone involved in it was locked into the formulaic game mindset. Forcing the licence's existing elements into a typical shooter template, rather than using them to improve it and making something innovative.
Bunch of fanboys with closed minds circle-jerked over the licence and thought the game is fun only to themselves, but couldn't ever get to think outside the box, be objective about it so they remained in this stagnancy...
http://www.destructoid.com/aliens-colonial-marines-has-never-been-delayed--228472.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/aliens-colonial-marines-has-never-been-delayed--228472.phtml)
The plot thickens...
Or, as I shall say from now on:
GEARBOXED!
Quote from: piff on Feb 09, 2013, 01:12:31 AM
is it a classic game?
no, that last classic avp game was avp2.
its even more populated then the avp 2010 game....
Im sure this game will also die a slow death do to the fact that its just a console port and wont allow mods...
Almost all games will go this way now. It's not profitable to have a modification system.
"Bunch of fanboys with closed minds circle-jerked over the licence and thought the game is fun only to themselves, but couldn't ever get to think outside the box, be objective about it so they remained in this stagnancy..."
I totally agree with this statement. Well said.
Quote from: UDA on Feb 09, 2013, 09:19:26 AM
Almost all games will go this way now. It's not profitable to have a modification system.
That's iffy. Duke Nukem 3D, a game made in 1996, is STILL SELLING new copies on sites like GOG, specifically because it was open sourced and great mods like Duke Nukem Eternity, Duke Plus, and the Duke HRP were possible. That means the owners of the game IP are still making bank on it.
So yeah, in the short term, the first months after the games release? It might hurt DLC sales.... But if the company is strong, and healthy, you can make a lot of money over a long stretch of time.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 09, 2013, 12:47:14 AM
Found the actual post that Ikarop made about this...and it doesn't work anymore...all you can get is the image that Ikarop posted along with the link which no longer works.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=34412.msg1599951#msg1599951 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=34412.msg1599951#msg1599951)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.tinypic.com%2Fn3169y.jpg&hash=3bd0f19aad79627225fd42df000e77d59fd16279)
Regardless of what he designed, that final line saying that he wished they'd focused on the game rather than the license is completely true from we have seen in the last couple of days.
Bear in mind that this was the portfolio of a developer from Timegate Studios not GBX. Kinda early now but I may elaborate on this a bit more at some point after launch.
whatever the problem was, it sure stopped it from turning out looking as great as it did here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG4opj3dMxc#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG4opj3dMxc#ws)
i only hope the pc looks similar and no where near as mediocre as the consoles.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 10, 2013, 12:10:12 AM
It might hurt DLC sales....
The Elder Scrolls and the Fallout games can prove the opposite. If you know what you are doing as a dev, you can get pretty good money from DLCs and to have a modding tools in the same time.
believe me or not, but from what I have heard, I know the game was reworked and scrapped many times...
in fact at one point it was outsourced to a completely different company... gearbox got it near the end of its development and what you see is what you get... alot of you are right, GBX focused ALOT on the license... so much so that there was never really an actual "game" for a long time...
i think the thing that dissapoints me most is the lackluster console port and the horrid story line and dialogue... I haven't heard such tasteless and uninspired dialogue in a longggg time.
oh well, back to dead space 3!
Quote from: jahickson on Feb 10, 2013, 08:35:44 AM
in fact at one point it was outsourced to a completely different company... gearbox got it near the end of its development
Not really.
sorry, let me rephrase that:
gearbox got it 'back' near the end of its development 'cycle'...
the outsourcing company really messed it up big time, then gbx was left to put it together to satisfy sega's demands of a release
Its nothing like that. The game was initially developed by other company back in 2000 but since 2006 its in GBX' hands and it never changed its owner since then. You are mistaken.
Multiplayer was outsorced to a different company. Only that!
like i said before, believe what you want. ;)
not everything that happens in game development winds up in wikipedia or in a developer interview...
and the information i am telling you is stuff you wont find in those sources..
anyways, ask yourself the simple question how did borderlands 2 attain such a nice high quality while aliens: cm is far inferior to that standard ? the simple answer is this game has gone through the hands of many many people... many redo's, scraps, and in many ways kit-bashing their way to make something out of what is really nothing gameplay wise...
measuring exactly where bishop's blood falls in the sulaco does not equal a great game...
anyways, believe what you want :) but there are very clear reasons why this game ended up why it did.. whether those become public remains to be seen.
No, I'm not theorizing to make myself feel better, don't misunderstand me...
Quote from: Salt The Fries on Feb 10, 2013, 09:54:58 AM
Multiplayer was outsorced to a different company. Only that!
trust me. there was more than multiplayer outsourced.
http://www.qj.net/xbox-360/news/gearbox-gets-help-from-timegate-for-aliens-colonial-marines.html (http://www.qj.net/xbox-360/news/gearbox-gets-help-from-timegate-for-aliens-colonial-marines.html)
these guys handled the game for about a year.
Quote from: WinterActual on Feb 10, 2013, 08:16:20 AM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 10, 2013, 12:10:12 AM
It might hurt DLC sales....
The Elder Scrolls and the Fallout games can prove the opposite. If you know what you are doing as a dev, you can get pretty good money from DLCs and to have a modding tools in the same time.
Like I said before "it might hurt DLC sales..." short term. Why buy some DLC when you can get free mods? Bare in mind, that's not my mentality, that's their mentality.
Quote from: WinterActual on Feb 10, 2013, 09:19:03 AM
Quote from: jahickson on Feb 10, 2013, 08:35:44 AM
in fact at one point it was outsourced to a completely different company... gearbox got it near the end of its development
Not really.
Actually it's something that has been discussed for a long time. For anyone out there, I'm just posting this for clarification.
They began the game back in 2006, then took a break to finish Borderlands. After Borderlands, GBX went back to A:CM and started updating the material as the game looked dated. Somewhere in 2010 the game was handled to Timegate so GBX could give BL2 the main focus. From what I understand Timegate was basically hired to do the legwork that GBX started which isn't that uncommon nowadays. One could say that they did the bulk of the game. Then in 2012 GBX started juggling things around and polishing the work Timegate did. I remember being told this last bit around July but I recall GBX already working on A:CM stuff earlier than that. Accurate time frames are always tricky.
In short, a lot of people and companies worked on this game as you can tell by the credits. Whether or not this kind of treatment is a recipe for disaster it's only up to you. Some people will love this game and others won't regardless of who worked on it. As said before, outsourcing things is pretty common nowadays and by no means unique to this game. Many great games wouldn't had been finished without the extra help.
Why didn't Sega just use a bigger developer in the first place if GBX was too busy?
When GBX went back to A:CM after BL and realized that the material was dated, they should've just scrapped it all and started from scratch (like Diablo 3 and TF2 for example) instead of trying to "update" it. Actually, at this point they probably should've just let the game go to another developer seeing as they were more keen on developing BL2.
Handing a dated game temporarily to another small developer (with mediocre track record) for completing and "updating" is just wrong from many standpoints.
Quote from: Darkness on Feb 10, 2013, 08:05:48 PM
Why didn't Sega just use a bigger developer in the first place if GBX was too busy?
It's not that much about them being busy but about making a game based on such a big franchise. It's always a delicate and tricky process.
Aliens: Colonial Marines has always been dumped for something else, first AVP, then Duke Nukem, then Borderlands 2...And the game was announced in December, 2006 for CHRIST SAKE!!!
I WILL RIP THEIR ******* THROATS OFF!!!
As I read these from early interviews, I just had to save them for later posterity. Give em a read......
""Aliens: Colonial Marines is a process of creativity and
invention and those don't necessarily follow the structure of
an assembly line."
"While setting clear goals, deadlines and predictions is
helpful, they are often subjective. We don't want to sacrifice
the creative process just for the sake of following a blue
print. We prefer to have the creative discovery shape that blue
print because our goal is to make a great game, and we are
prioritizing this goal over the previously targeted date."
"Randy Pitchford bounded on to the stage to say: "This is the sequel to
Aliens that we've all been waiting for. It's the game I've been
wanting to play since I saw that film so many years ago."
"But most of all, Gearbox has contemplated 25 years of developers'
collective failure to make a faithful Aliens follow-up and been
galvanised into creating a game that is truly worthy of the badge."
" I commended the MP designers that were at hand on their
decision to keep the aliens' perspective in third-person
because players would eventually sucuumb to vertigo if it was
in first-person.
One of the female MP level designers commented
that it was a decision born from one of the failures of
Rebellion's most recent Aliens vs. Predator game. Players felt
disoriented anytime they would climb on a wall or the ceiling,
so they wanted to correct that in Gearbox's iteration of the
Aliens franchise."
Read into this what you will. ;p
If that is true about getting a different developer before 2012, that is interesting, as I thought the game looked it's most promising with the 2011 E3 Demo Walkthrough. So that wouldn't have been Gearbox? Then they take it back and instead of making it better, make it worse!
That being said, the story always sounded a bit ridiculous, but it looks like they changed that a lot two, as Randy Pitchford said that the demo walkthrough took place in Act 2 of the game but of what I have seen, none of that stuff happens.
Quote from: MR EL1M1NATOR on Feb 10, 2013, 10:58:22 PM
If that is true about getting a different developer before 2012, that is interesting, as I thought the game looked it's most promising with the 2011 E3 Demo Walkthrough. So that wouldn't have been Gearbox?
The game has always been theirs. It wouldn't be respectful to say otherwise just because they had outsourcing partners. It's just the focus that varied depending on what was a priority at the moment.
As for the E3 demo, it was a cinematic experience put together by many people including GBX.
you are right ikarop, that is exactly the jist happened...
but things that wont be public is Time Gate changed many systems (including ai and pathfinding), textures, meshes, and particles, so that when GBX got the game back from Time Gate after more or less a year, it was a big mess to try and salvage enough to finish the game and make it something worth playing.
and no its not uncommon for material to be handed off to a outsourcing company, but to outsource the entire game just because you needed to finish work on BL2 seems counter productive to me... Should have just shelved it until they were ready to go back to it.
nothing worse than having a project go through multiple hands and phases were the direction can often shift dramatically from the original goal...
however, moreso than all this Time Gate stuff, I think one thing that this game is hindered by is the atrocious story and dialogue... I don't remember when it was that aliens franchise was ever "bro fisting" dialogue... The dialogue should add to the game not detract in every instance .. I don't need to hear the CM's say "Oorah to Ashes" every other cut scene...
it all makes a little clearer why it took so long up until recently to get a proper "story" trailer... most of what has been demoed and shown most often was the multiplayer...
i'm a rare breed but I don't play games for the sole purpose of multiplayer... I would rather have a strong single player campaign over any form of multiplayer any day of the week, but thats just me :)
Both studios worked closely so I'm not sure about any "salvaging".
Quoteit all makes a little clearer why it took so long up until recently to get a proper "story" trailer... most of what has been demoed and shown most often was the multiplayer...
That's just marketing. AvP's story trailer was released around the same time back in 2010.
right but what I am saying is, the quality of the 2012-2013 story trailer really foreshadowed a lot of the horrible dialogue, gameplay elements that we are seeing this weekend with early copies...
when I saw the latest story trailer my excitement diminished whole heartedly... They would have been better off just not releasing it.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/11/the-future-according-to-randy-pitchford (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/11/the-future-according-to-randy-pitchford)
Pitchford is a B/S artist. No doubt about it.
Anyone know what exact role Timegate studios played in this?
Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 12, 2013, 12:50:08 AM
Anyone know what exact role Timegate studios played in this?
Former Gearbox dev says Aliens: Colonial Marines development was a trainwreck, primary dev done by TimeGate http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=196001 (http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=196001)
That article seems to shed some light on that. Though, coming from a former GBX dev it should be taken with a grain of salt.
Anyway, if what that guy says is true, wow. GBX totally lost the ball on this one, giving most of the development to a mediocre developer.
Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 12, 2013, 12:50:08 AM
Anyone know what exact role Timegate studios played in this?
They helped with the overall game. I've seen mentions to both SP and MP.
Well, that again proves what I was saying a few days ago...
Yes, Time Gate did "the game" for about a year... More Single Player than anything...
Little tidbit... Sega was not made aware of this until GBX got the game back from them this past year... (GBX was too busy with BL2, DNF, and sending few people from the Aliens Team to work on Furious 4... which is another game that internally was turning out very bad as well from what I hear)
From my sources, by the time GBX got the game back from Time Gate the game was changed dramatically... whole integral systems were rewritten, new (but bad) art was put in the game, and GBX was left to finish a product that should have never seen the light of day... Alot, of the game in the end was rushed and a product of a like I said before-- a game that went through the hands of many developers and was scrapped and restarted over three times...
But again, one thing that still irks me about the game has nothing to do with Time Gate or the other companies... It has to do with the horrible writing and dialogue in the Single Player game... The writers should be fired or atleast asked to step down.... After 7 years (!!!) this is the story and dialogue we get??
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 12, 2013, 01:05:11 AM
Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 12, 2013, 12:50:08 AM
Anyone know what exact role Timegate studios played in this?
They helped with the overall game. I've seen mentions to both SP and MP.
IGN reported and quoted Pitchford, saying:
QuoteHouston-based TimeGate Studios, meanwhile, worked on "probably about 20 or 25 percent of the total time," with Pitchford noting that "if you take preproduction out of it, their effort's probably equivalent to ours.
More: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/02/11/the-future-according-to-randy-pitchford (http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/02/11/the-future-according-to-randy-pitchford)
Ugh, just reading this stinks of Alien 3-level production hell, which I was mercifully ignorant of until years later.
If the game tanks, hopefully we'll get some great articles divulging some of the problems (post-DNF style.) Even after it's all said and done, who wanted to see the damn game fail, or GBX for the matter? I can't stand Pitchford, but I don't questions his passion for what he does and they've made some great stuff.
Sigh. Welcome to the Aliens curse, friend. ;) We hope you've enjoyed your stay with the license! Now go sit in the corner with Dark Horse Comics and drink until the game is good.
I can't help but feel a bit cheated by this news. I was somewhat enthusiastic to hear that GBX had control of this game's development when it was announced. They are not Valve Software but the passion of their early interviews for the project and that they appeared to be dedicated fans of Aliens made me think this game was in good hands and would get special attention.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-12-aliens-colonial-marines-primary-development-outsourced-to-section-8-developer-timegate-studios-report (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-12-aliens-colonial-marines-primary-development-outsourced-to-section-8-developer-timegate-studios-report)
Now it's obvious that game was pimped out by GBX to sub-par developers for six years before there was simply nothing left for anybody to do with it. I'm still getting it because I usually buy all things that are Aliens related for video-games (so long as I own the system for it) and I'll probably think that the game is slightly better than the reviews because of the huge fan that I am. But damn, I really don't think a game like this could've been handled more poorly.
Yeah well, that's the thing with developers recently, we can't trust them to touch a good franchise without ruining it completely. I almost get the feel that the media and game devs want to put anything Aliens, Predator, or AvP down in the mud. We've seen that in the films, we're seeing it in the games.
...Or maybe, any game dev that makes a deal with Sega ends up failing to create something good AND lasting, AvP 2010 was meh-okay, though it didn't last for long.
Quote from: Ash 937 on Feb 12, 2013, 04:18:09 PM
I can't help but feel a bit cheated by this news. I was somewhat enthusiastic to hear that GBX had control of this game's development when it was announced. They are not Valve Software but the passion of their early interviews for the project and that they appeared to be dedicated fans of Aliens made me think this game was in good hands and would get special attention.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-12-aliens-colonial-marines-primary-development-outsourced-to-section-8-developer-timegate-studios-report (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-12-aliens-colonial-marines-primary-development-outsourced-to-section-8-developer-timegate-studios-report)
Now it's obvious that game was pimped out by GBX to sub-par developers for six years before there was simply nothing left for anybody to do with it. I'm still getting it because I usually buy all things that are Aliens related for video-games (so long as I own the system for it) and I'll probably think that the game is slightly better than the reviews because of the huge fan that I am. But damn, I really don't think a game like this could've been handled more poorly.
the aliens vs predator thing is a quick money maker for these companies, over charge for the pre-release, over charge for DLC, while they can, before they game turns into a bargain bin game, just like avp2010 did. Its all about to quick buck, and a quick death.
Quote from: Ash 937 on Feb 12, 2013, 04:18:09 PMNow it's obvious that game was pimped out by GBX to sub-par developers for six years
I wouldn't call Timegate or Demiurge subpar at all. Timegates
Section 8 & Predjudice games are great games. I can see Timegate becomming the next Free Radical; and Demiurge are a great boostrapped developer.
Nah, its all the partners in this, not those companies responsible for games that are well known to have good cred with the community. Demiurge did the original Mass Effect and Borderlands.
I remember contacting GBX about this back in the day and I'm sure I wasn't the only one who caught wind of it back then. I had my reasons not to report it but I'm not sure about the rest of the press, particularly since these outsourcing partners kept being mentioned in interviews for almost two years (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2011/06/10/timegate-studios-involved-with-acm/) (this was the first public mention). It's just kinda painful to watch all of this blow up on release date.
Official comment from Sega at a launch event:
Quote"Absolutely not, the game has been developed by Gearbox Software. Other studios [like Timegate] helped Gearbox on the production of single and multiplayer."
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/sega-aliens-colonial-marines-sp-was-not-outsourced-to-timegate-studios/ (http://www.dsogaming.com/news/sega-aliens-colonial-marines-sp-was-not-outsourced-to-timegate-studios/)
So... Liars, basically.
Regardless of what happened, this is on Gearbox's heads. The story was written by them, and they bullshitted this was a good game all the while knowing it was in reality a turd. They signed off on this product so the blame game just isn't going to fly.
texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2080612&forum_id=13 (http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2080612&forum_id=13)
QuoteHate to say it, but I wouldn't get your hopes up too high for Colonial Marines. I used to work at Gearbox, and the development of that game has been a total train wreck, going on what, 6 years now? Gearbox isn't even making the game, except for the multiplayer. Primary development was outsourced to TimeGate Studios, which has a less than stellar past.
I hope it proves me wrong, as I still have alot of friends still working at Gearbox, but I am expecting it to be average at best.
- mugwurt from TexAgs.com, posted 12:46a, 05/16/12
Of course, now here come the articles. ::) this is old news, it's just sad that they start publishing this stuff now. It makes them look just as bad as those who hyped the hell out of this game. Jump ship, quick!
http://www.gamespot.com/news/aliens-colonial-marines-development-was-a-total-train-wreck-says-ex-dev-6403761 (http://www.gamespot.com/news/aliens-colonial-marines-development-was-a-total-train-wreck-says-ex-dev-6403761)
There are quite a few things that point out that the game development hasn't been smooth.
First it is the choice of SEGA by picking Gearbox which was already devoting its soul to other games.
Because Gearbox couldn't focus on everything, they have chosen to get a little help from different studios.
The good thing is: You make work much faster.
The bad thing is: Other studios have different methods of coding. That can explain the X amount of glitch / bug / lag everywhere present in the game.
Also, you must remember that this game was intended for Wii U which was not even out.
Meaning that the developers had to focus on PC, PS3 and XBox but also a console that was still at its Beta stage and where no proper FPS have been developed before on it.
So you can guess that the amount of time spend on the game was doubled and the progress considerably slowed.
Plus you had in this mess Crazy fans asking for changing their Alien tail (so re-model, re-do setup (rigging + skinning) correcting animation since it may have brought a thousands problem) and many other small details rather than focusing on gameplay mechanic & networking.
You melt this during 6 years and you send the package and the result is here.
It's an experiment, kind of incomplete, it's not a beta or a a top quality, it's just a product that was pushed away constantly by saying "I want to add this, and this and this, work on that, this detail is not like the movie, maybe we should add that, this is a good idea let's bring it" and when the deadline came they had to pack it up as it was so it's nearly Work In Progress.
In response the the post about Sega denying TimeGates involvment in the Single Player..
Sega is saying this because as I said earlier in this thread: Sega was not made aware of TG's involvement when it was happening. Sega is right they paid GBX to make this game, not some outsourcing studio. Remember Sega funds Gearbox to make this game, not the other way around... So when GBX knew they couldn't fulfill their release commitments (all with being busy with BL2, DNF and Furious 4) they outsourced the game for ~year to make sure someone was working on it full time... Using, btw, the money Sega was giving them... Who is to even say GBX was giving TG less money than it was actually getting from Sega... Pulling off a profit while basically being a middle man... (that last part in conjecture, but I wouldn't put it past GBX)...
And again as I said before, since the game switched hands between Time Gate and GBX and then back to GBX, many systems were redone, art was redone (textures, particles, meshes) the game was tinkered with and changed by too many different people and too many different visions... Basically, if GBX would have had the balls to be honest with Sega and ask for more time while it worked on BL2 and kept the game in-house, this game could have been pretty good. But by selling off responsibilities to Time Gate, the game really had no chance in becoming the walkthrough video shown above.
Again, the stories from this GBX Employee are true... If anything Sega is just finding about all of this now...
Forget watergate, now we have timegate! ;)
Also, if you are curious about GBX's further bad dealings, investigate the relationship between Ubisoft and GBX and the Furious 4 game announced at E3 few years back... Ubisoft was funding GBX for another traditional Hell's Highway game... what they didn't want was a whole Inglorious Basterds game... Let's just say a lot of shit hit the fan and fan reaction to the trailer helped give Ubisoft some leverage in getting GBX back to making the game Ubisoft originally wanted.
http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/18ewf4/a_lot_of_you_are_rightfully_upset_at_the_final/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/18ewf4/a_lot_of_you_are_rightfully_upset_at_the_final/)
Interesting read and sounds plausible. What a mess.
Christ, Gearbox...what the f**k happened? Holy shit.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 13, 2013, 05:27:27 AM
Christ, Gearbox...what the f**k happened? Holy shit.
look at the game review, the game is done for. no dedicated servers, low score.
and they want people to invest over $100 when you factor in the game, maps ect...
http://www.gamespot.com/aliens-colonial-marines/reviews/aliens-colonial-marines-review-6403683/ (http://www.gamespot.com/aliens-colonial-marines/reviews/aliens-colonial-marines-review-6403683/)
4.5 POOR
Quote from: VonPelz on Feb 13, 2013, 05:17:45 AM
http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/18ewf4/a_lot_of_you_are_rightfully_upset_at_the_final/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/18ewf4/a_lot_of_you_are_rightfully_upset_at_the_final/)
Interesting read and sounds plausible. What a mess.
Interesting. Ta for the link.
This is true!!! The .ini file for the game is named PecanEngine.ini!!!
Interesting to see how it keeps being mentioned that Timegate only worked on SP which isn't true. You can even Google these devs resumes and find what they worked on (http://roberthallwood.com/resume_index.html). Just one example of a dev from Timegate who worked on MP:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GofMOMysgB4J:bigkidsteve.com/resume.html+&cd=1&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GofMOMysgB4J:bigkidsteve.com/resume.html+&cd=1&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es)
I downloaded the .doc version of his resume just in case.
Like I said before this and many articles came out, this entire game was handed off to Time Gate... the small team of Aliens GBX employees went off to help finish Borderlands 2....
Everything this Reddit person is telling you is true. Verified fact. Like I said earlier, when the game got back to GBX from Time Gate it was a mess and a shell of a game...
Like I said, similar things (in the sense of shady business, and bad game development) are happening with Brothers In Arms: Furious 4 (little tid bit... this project is code named Cedar... every GBX project has some tree or something as its code name)...
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 13, 2013, 07:57:15 AM
Interesting to see how it keeps being mentioned that Timegate only worked on SP. You can even Google these devs resumes and find what they worked on (http://roberthallwood.com/resume_index.html). Just one example of a dev from Timegate who worked on MP:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GofMOMysgB4J:bigkidsteve.com/resume.html+&cd=1&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GofMOMysgB4J:bigkidsteve.com/resume.html+&cd=1&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es)
I dowloaded Section 8 & the follow up Predjudice years ago. Timegate are a good choice for MP content. Even without dedicated servers never had a problem connecting to a game.
The games themselves are nothing new but thier implimentation of MP concept is as good as I've ever seen.
Personally I don't believe GBX outsourced the campaign to TG. If anything, TG would've done the coop arrangements, but thats about it.
The more interesting 3rd party right now are the bootstrapped Demiurge. They're not a company to release unfinished content, I read somewhere that they make a point of conditioning it in contracts.
Considering Demiurge were responsible for 99% of foundationary work on the title, before platform specific finishing was passed around; I'm kinda expecting the Wii U version will wow.
Which will piss me off more. Not because the Wii U version (I have one) will be better (if it is) but because the other version weren't enpar and the overall experience translates as a joke.
I like to be able to share my gaming experiences at the pub. Hard to do that when 2/3rds of participants have been alienated from that experience.
No, Time Gate did the campaign. Im sorry I can't tell you more beyond "trust me" without getting people in trouble or possibly sued for breaking NDA.... but every word of this article is fact.
http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/18ewf4/a_lot_of_you_are_rightfully_upset_at_the_final/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/18ewf4/a_lot_of_you_are_rightfully_upset_at_the_final/)
Again, this was shady dealings by Gearbox... they had too much on their plate especially with something they knew would be hot (Borderlands 2)... Time Gate did a lot of the campaign and when they (GBX) got the game back after finishing up BL2 they received a shell of a game...
Also some notes on the article... you guys may not realize but to pass cert on Xbox is a long ass process... with so little time between BL2 cert and ACM release, there wasn't much time to make anything out the game that had never been a fully realized project from the get go...
GBX suits were so focused on making the Sulaco sooooo close to the references and movies that for a while in the beginning of Pecan, there was no game... just a Aliens museum... and so the game never really had clear direction and between that and switching so many hands at Gearbox (from developers getting moved around to DNF, BL2, Furious 4) and other Outsourced companies (i.e. Time Gate ) the game was doomed to fail....
Quote from: jahickson on Feb 13, 2013, 10:16:22 AM
No, Time Gate did the campaign. Im sorry I can't tell you more beyond "trust me" without getting people in trouble or possibly sued for breaking NDA.... but every word of this article is fact.
http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/18ewf4/a_lot_of_you_are_rightfully_upset_at_the_final/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/LV426/comments/18ewf4/a_lot_of_you_are_rightfully_upset_at_the_final/)
Again, this was shady dealings by Gearbox... they had too much on their plate especially with something they knew would be hot (Borderlands 2)... Time Gate did a lot of the campaign and when they (GBX) got the game back after finishing up BL2 they received a shell of a game...
Also some notes on the article... you guys may not realize but to pass cert on Xbox is a long ass process... with so little time between BL2 cert and ACM release, there wasn't much time to make anything out the game that had never been a fully realized project from the get go...
GBX suits were so focused on making the Sulaco sooooo close to the references and movies that for a while in the beginning of Pecan, there was no game... just a Aliens museum... and so the game never really had clear direction and between that and switching so many hands at Gearbox (from developers getting moved around to DNF, BL2, Furious 4) and other Outsourced companies (i.e. Time Gate ) the game was doomed to fail....
f**kin Gearbox...f**k you. f**k you. f**k you.
Quote from: jahickson on Feb 13, 2013, 10:16:22 AM
No, Time Gate did the campaign. Im sorry I can't tell you more beyond "trust me" without getting people in trouble or possibly sued for breaking NDA.... but every word of this article is fact.
Wtf? who are you? - forget the link. Thats as old as the hills. The way I explained it is the way it occured, as of readily available info from the 3 corporate sources themselves. Just because newsites choose to bring these nuggets into focus now, only serves to make thier motives seem more suspicious to me. As do I feel its rather pathetic people choose to concern themselves
now with production issues, having had ample time to get on that bandwagon, long before the product went retail.
Anyway, apart from clarifications I'm not interested in this bullshit, its why I'm staying out of it.
I finished the game a week ago nearly, returned the PS3 vers for a complete refund and store credit of $10 and now will see what if any difference the Wii U version makes - my reasons for despising it are solely canonical (which I may be very alone, concerning), considering that this is the case for me I may not get that Wii U version, will depend on how much I calm down about it between now and then.
I've long considered gameplay like this was a joke, years ago when everyone else believed it was the pinnacle of achievement. I'm currently enjoying Time splitters 2 (again).
A:CM is past its launch comiseration date. If people are choosing to stick with it, then they see something in it and power to 'em; if not then it provides them with nothing. Alls good, people should just move on from here.
Only things of particular interest is the suspicious behaviour of the newsites, the Wii U vers. and where the title goes from here.
It would be widely worth considering; that if GBX polish the title to current standards would those that descry A:CM be also willing to trumpet that fact.
Shocking. Gearbox are the lowest of the low. I even feel sorry for SEGA.
Quote from: bobby brown on Feb 13, 2013, 08:01:24 PM
Gearbox´s employees probably worked their ass of making this game (as with all games late in development) and flat out confirm the game was shit would be an enormous backlash against company morale.
So expect no formal apology.
Gearbox didn't make the campaign.
Whaddaya mean GBX didn't make the campaign? They're mostly responsible for it, they just spent no time on it, thats clear.
You really buy that reddit crap? Ffs you guys need a career. Any halfwit could've assembled that amount of info to draw that conclusion. I'm looking at the syntax from that guy and it reads like any gamer shit-talking. Not a professional under an NDA choosing his/her words carefully.
This whole thing is probably nothing more than a joint venture with a discrepancy over the bottom line. GBX are solely to blame over the campaign and thats all there is to it.
No conspiracy theory, no reddit-blowing 00 employee, no Borderlands 2 holdup. Just business gone wrong.
Demiurge keep extending the release date for thier Wii U version, GBX could've done the same. They chose not to - now why is either due to entitlement or return vs investment and having spent more than 6 yrs on a 360 & PS3 versions with a new gen of hardware just around the corner is no longer viable.
Yet they released a product on those systems, and Wii U adoption is slow (perplexingly), so we'll see what happens.
Quote from: RC on Feb 13, 2013, 08:24:16 PM
Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 13, 2013, 08:13:24 PM
Best apology they could make is to fix the damn thing and make it enjoyable. Anything else would be more bullshit.
How about more Michael Biehn?
What?
Hold on, so Gearbox didn't make the campaign, only the MP? That's news to me, who did make the SP then?
Also, I agree OpenMaw, Biehns performance in this was pretty shitty.
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Feb 13, 2013, 09:05:48 PM
Hold on, so Gearbox didn't make the campaign, only the MP? That's news to me, who did make the SP then?
Also, I agree OpenMaw, Biehns performance in this was pretty shitty.
GBX did the SP, TG do MP - its what TG do. Demiurge did all the overhaul, something like 90% of all platform groundwork then GBX outsourced modules. Demiurge continue to work on the Wii U slowly and GBX spend a few months to finish the campaign (sp) - not enough time. When the release dates announced Demiurge ask for more time,why didn't GBX decide to spend more time too? because they didn't want to. Why? thsts the question isn't it?
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/of-course-gearbox-made-aliens-colonial-marines-sega-insists/0110827 (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/of-course-gearbox-made-aliens-colonial-marines-sega-insists/0110827)
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Feb 13, 2013, 09:14:44 PM
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/of-course-gearbox-made-aliens-colonial-marines-sega-insists/0110827 (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/of-course-gearbox-made-aliens-colonial-marines-sega-insists/0110827)
Thas, that exerpt from launch day in Italy isn't it?
Quote from: RC on Feb 13, 2013, 09:09:12 PM
Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 13, 2013, 08:50:33 PM
Quote from: RC on Feb 13, 2013, 08:24:16 PM
Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 13, 2013, 08:13:24 PM
Best apology they could make is to fix the damn thing and make it enjoyable. Anything else would be more bullshit.
How about more Michael Biehn?
What?
Aren't you his biggest fan?
wtf? whats that got to do with anything. I'm sure everyone knows I am no fan of Biehns. There a point to this or do you just need some sleep?
Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 13, 2013, 09:18:38 PM
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Feb 13, 2013, 09:14:44 PM
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/of-course-gearbox-made-aliens-colonial-marines-sega-insists/0110827 (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/of-course-gearbox-made-aliens-colonial-marines-sega-insists/0110827)
Thas, that exerpt from launch day in Italy isn't it?
Don't know to be honest, just google searched ''who actually made A:CM single player campaign'' and this popped up as a recent article.
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Feb 13, 2013, 09:20:54 PM
Quote from: Paladinrja on Feb 13, 2013, 09:18:38 PM
Quote from: Bjørn Half-hand on Feb 13, 2013, 09:14:44 PM
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/of-course-gearbox-made-aliens-colonial-marines-sega-insists/0110827 (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/of-course-gearbox-made-aliens-colonial-marines-sega-insists/0110827)
Thas, that exerpt from launch day in Italy isn't it?
Don't know to be honest, just google searched ''who actually made A:CM single player campaign'' and this popped up as a recent article.
Yah, I been pumping google searches since this all blew up and that tidbits the only thing so far. Sega honcho @ Italian launch or something. Clearly quotes GBX are solely responsible for the campaign.
Again, A:CM the game (SP and MP) were handed off to Time Gate for about year while the Aliens team (team Pecan) were pulled in to finish BL:2...
And no I didn't get this off reddit, I was saying days before (look back in this thread) these stories broke on twitter and reddit... I work in the Industry and if you do too you will know its not very big and you quite frequently hear directly from people who work or worked at certain companies and games...
Like I said before, the story of GBX's Furious 4 is another doozy. These things aren't uncommon they just never find the light of day.
Also, as I said before any of these other stories broke, Sega did NOT know at the time that GBX pushed the majority of the development to Time Gate while it finished up BL:2... Hence, why you see Sega coming out denying these rumors. It may seem like in front they are backing up GBX, but in fact that are making sure they don't look like idiots for not knowing... Again, Sega pays GBX for the game, not the other way around... They didn't pay Time Gate to make this game..
I guarantee there are some pretty heated talks in the GBX offices with Sega execs about the true nature of the development of this game.
Also, quickly think about it... without knowing any of this information, what do you think GBX benefits more from:
a) Finishing BL2 and DLC
b) Finishing A:CM and DLC
http://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?p=285152#post285152 (http://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?p=285152#post285152)
CLUSTERf**k.
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 13, 2013, 10:07:10 PM
http://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?p=285152#post285152 (http://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?p=285152#post285152)
Poor bastards if true, gearbox basically used them and now everyone is pointing fingers.
thanks ikarop.... ;)
again, another article from the moderator of Time Gates forums saying what I am saying..
look Paladinrja, I am not blaming Time Gate for this mess... I am blaming GBX. They didn't have enough time to finish the game and saw something a lot more lucrative for their company in finishing Borderlands 2 first... (obviously at the cost of their other projects). They outsourced 'the game' while they finished up BL2, then had to quickly go back to Aliens C:M to meet Sega's demands of a finished product (which they have every right to-- 6+ years is a longggg time)...
Gearbox was greedy and unrealistic and had their best team working on BL2 and DLC while their other projects suffered as a consequence.
Quote from: jahickson on Feb 13, 2013, 09:47:23 PM
Again, A:CM the game (SP and MP) were handed off to Time Gate for about year while the Aliens team (team Pecan) were pulled in to finish BL:2...
And no I didn't get this off reddit, I was saying days before (look back in this thread) these stories broke on twitter and reddit... I work in the Industry and if you do too you will know its not very big and you quite frequently hear directly from people who work or worked at certain companies and games...
Like I said before, the story of GBX's Furious 4 is another doozy. These things aren't uncommon they just never find the light of day.
Also, as I said before any of these other stories broke, Sega did NOT know at the time that GBX pushed the majority of the development to Time Gate while it finished up BL:2... Hence, why you see Sega coming out denying these rumors. It may seem like in front they are backing up GBX, but in fact that are making sure they don't look like idiots for not knowing... Again, Sega pays GBX for the game, not the other way around... They didn't pay Time Gate to make this game..
I guarantee there are some pretty heated talks in the GBX offices with Sega execs about the true nature of the development of this game.
Also, quickly think about it... without knowing any of this information, what do you think GBX benefits more from:
a) Finishing BL2 and DLC
b) Finishing A:CM and DLC
I already said this was old news.
Original poster:-
submitted 20 hours ago* by throwawayacmJust what are you tryin ta pull mate? You'd be supprised just how much from the industry back channels really does get out actually.
Anyway. Not buying any of it. Even your multiple choice offerrings don't make the parity check. Thats a blatant ultimatum, this titles been in cascading cross developement for 6 yrs.
The picture you guys totting this around to any who will listen is to get GBX off the hook. You claim that 80%+ of the campaign was outsourced to Timegate, but that shouldn't have beeb blah, blah.
But heres the problem, see? No one got past the Timegate reference and peoples psychology being what it is will always return logic to Timegate. You're creating a scapegoat for GBX.
Second reason why its bulshittery is because you don't referrence Demiurge anywhere. Demi and GBX did the very first nterviews together last year to discuss the title. Its also confirmed that Demi took the title out of cryo and redid 90% of the groundwork across all platforms before handing it back to GBX. Demi are the only constant dev group on this because of the Wii U verion.
In short, stop trying to make a scapegoat for GBX. Its thier fault and no others. TG could never have done the story anyway because primaries can
only come from GBX they do the design solely.
This is quite funny. Are you the same guy across all forums on this because heaps of people are buyin it. You know what happens if they latch onto you right?
Yes, you are right. I am the community moderator at Time Gate throwing company under the bus... ::)
You responded before reading alll the responses above. I already addressed who I am blaming.
Quote from: jahickson on Feb 13, 2013, 10:25:56 PM
Yes, you are right. I am the community moderator at Time Gate throwing company under the bus... ::)
You responded before reading alll the responses above. I already addressed who I am blaming.
Sega already nicked GBX for blame on launch day (to a reporter I might add). Why bother with this? Coz you are throwing TG under a buss bringing this into focus.
You forget what people are like. They won't see a word past TG this and that. TG are a dev I kinda like who seem to me to be the next Free Radical. Hate to see them take the wrap for what 3 partners f**ked up all on thier own.
But the bigger plot point is that GBX outsourced a game they were hired to make... That is the part I am trying to communicate. Sega expected GBX's top people to be making this game, not outsourcing a majoirty of it because they couldn't handle it within their other schedules...
Remember, Gearbox is tied up with Sega for Aliens, 2K Games for Borderlands, and Ubisoft for Furious 4.... for at least the projects I am aware of. I am sure the uppers at GBX realized it would be best for them to push off Aliens in favor of DNF, BL2, DLC, etc etc...
Basically too much on their plate without the balls to admit they couldn't handle it. That is f**ked up part to me. In all these interviews, demos, etc they claim how much of an honor it is to work on this game yet they give it an half assed effort.
Trust me, I don't want to see Time Gate go down... I work for a company just like them. I want Randy to take off his smug expression and be honest for once in his studios history. They f**ked up. And in the end f**ked up what could have been an amazing game.
i really can't remember a scandal of this magnitude for the videogame industry happening in recent times.
Quote from: jahickson on Feb 13, 2013, 10:39:51 PM
But the bigger plot point is that GBX outsourced a game they were hired to make... That is the part I am trying to communicate. Sega expected GBX's top people to be making this game, not outsourcing a majoirty of it because they couldn't handle it within their other schedules...
Remember, Gearbox is tied up with Sega for Aliens, 2K Games for Borderlands, and Ubisoft for Furious 4.... for at least the projects I am aware of. I am sure the uppers at GBX realized it would be best for them to push off Aliens in favor of DNF, BL2, DLC, etc etc...
Basically too much on their plate without the balls to admit they couldn't handle it. That is f**ked up part to me. In all these interviews, demos, etc they claim how much of an honor it is to work on this game yet they give it an half assed effort.
Trust me, I don't want to see Time Gate go down... I work for a company just like them. I want Randy to take off his smug expression and be honest for once in his studios history. They f**ked up. And in the end f**ked up what could have been an amazing game.
This is true but ever stop to think how much work GBX sources for small groups like TG and Demi? These bootstrp devs havent built the numbers up yet to stand on thier own cred. Last thing anyone should want is GBX gone. So many other studio's would go with them.
That's not all true though. A lot, of the outsourcing firms work for multiple different companies and if GBX goes, it may be one lost partner, but I doubt GBX is going to have them help them again anyway... Not because they are bad mind you, but just for the sake of their own f**ked up PR and using Time Gate and the scapegoat for A:CM.
I have faith Time Gate will be OK. In the end, they most likely received all their money from GBX for this game... So sales will not necessarily have an impact for Time Gate... (although, since they did more than simple outsourcing, they may have a profit sharing agreement but I do not know that as fact... I would be surprised if they did)...
Again, the bigger plot point is I think we may see a showdown between Sega and GBX. No one is commenting which seems to suggest some legal repercussions may be underway.
Also the HORRIBLE part of the game to me was NOT outsourced... ;) The horrid story and dialogue... Mikey Nuemann needs to stop writing. Period.
"We had a thing.... A sex thing."
oh brother! haha ::)
I admit, I half expected Beavis and Butthead to show up at that point and go "Did you, like, put it in her butt?" "Huh huh!"
Hahaha right? My god, the writing is horrible. This is probably the best review I have seen haha:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/12/3979816/today-i-played-aliens-colonial-marines (http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/12/3979816/today-i-played-aliens-colonial-marines)
Quote from: jahickson on Feb 13, 2013, 10:58:33 PM
That's not all true though. A lot, of the outsourcing firms work for multiple different companies and if GBX goes, it may be one lost partner, but I doubt GBX is going to have them help them again anyway... Not because they are bad mind you, but just for the sake of their own f**ked up PR and using Time Gate and the scapegoat for A:CM.
I have faith Time Gate will be OK. In the end, they most likely received all their money from GBX for this game... So sales will not necessarily have an impact for Time Gate... (although, since they did more than simple outsourcing, they may have a profit sharing agreement but I do not know that as fact... I would be surprised if they did)...
Again, the bigger plot point is I think we may see a showdown between Sega and GBX. No one is commenting which seems to suggest some legal repercussions may be underway.
Also the HORRIBLE part of the game to me was NOT outsourced... ;) The horrid story and dialogue... Mikey Nuemann needs to stop writing. Period.
"We had a thing.... A sex thing."
oh brother! haha ::)
I think theres more going on here than is known so far. I also forsee a certain amount of aportioned blame by the venture partners themselves. Doesn't really matter - thier first duty should be to fix this, get that cost and then work out who's footing the bill.
I think theres more going on here than is known so far.
[/quote]
I do too. I say we give it a few days and see what happens.
QuoteMy god, the writing is horrible.
Excrutiating.
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 13, 2013, 10:07:10 PM
http://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?p=285152#post285152 (http://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?p=285152#post285152)
:D :D :D
It is a rare thing to see a game that is of such atrocious quality that its post release hype-lash debacle delivers such a juicy hurting of the butts.
More! More, I say! So many twists and turns in this story!
Damn...I got A:CM on launch day but have not had the time to open it on account of my work schedule. I'm seriously contemplating returning it to get a full refund. I have no doubt that it will cost $29.99 in a few weeks and then drop to $19.99 within a few months.
I knew it would be bad...but it's been a long time since I anticipated the release of a video game that earned a grip of review scores that were less than 5/10 overall.
Not sure how creditable this article is but it is quite interesting.
http://kotaku.com/5984068/how-aliens-colonial-marines-fell-apart (http://kotaku.com/5984068/how-aliens-colonial-marines-fell-apart)
As with Alien³, there's plenty of blame to go around.
To those whom say the Borderlands 2 did not interfere with A:CM's development, you are quite simply wrong. It's never going to be brought up in public or brought from behind closed doors, but BL2 impacted A:CM severely in the same way NOLF2 impacted AvP2, but to an even greater degree.
As for the story, it was done years ago. Literally. I actually pretty much called what was going to happen to the story point for point in 2007 and posted pretty much what we see in game then on the GBX forums. It wasn't word for word, but it was close enough that Mikey and Randy both addressed the thread directly themselves to allay concerns and give reasons why LV-426 should and would be re-explored, and why Marine gun-pr0n was the key to keeping user interest.
The story did get vastly simplified in regards to NPC happenstance and twists and turns, and some of that is actually still in the files thereof, but most of it, including what happened to other marines was set in stone.
Contrary to popular belief outsourcing happens all the time, and your favorite game probably contains a metric f**kton of outsourced or freelanced assets. I should know, it's one of the things I do.
Your favorite sword in that one adventure game was probably made by a chinese twentysomething in a literal art asset factory.
Assets outsourced can be an issue when there's no oversight or consistency amongst the art design and leads, and that's what happened here. When outsourcing you need a wrangler, Dead Space 2 and 3 contain a ton of chinese outsourced assets and the reason you can't tell between Visceral's and the contract people is because there was folks on both ends cracking the consistency whip.
That didn't happen in A:CM.
Hopping staff is also game design suicide, and it happened frequently throughout A:CM's development, by every company involved, including GBX, and even SEGA themselves.
Gearbox is a good company. They have a very flat management layer, they adapt quickly and their staff is loyal to a fault, and I mean literal fault, but even well intentioned folks can f**k stuff up, especially when you're playing musical chairs with design and implementation, again as Alien³ showed rather handily.
Sticking with the horrendous story and leaving behind the original tactical decision design base when the first iteration didn't work perfectly doomed SP from the beginning, the bad programming and lack of polish is simply icing on the cake.
Not sticking to canon for events and Alien design also shut a door before anyone could get through it. There's always a risk when you reinvent an already perfectly balanced wheel, and in THAT instance, yes GBX is guilty as hell and they knew they would be from the beginning and chose to do it anyway for the sake of colonial marine gun-pr0n fanservice, and it's pretty clear that was absolutely the wrong choice.
That's actually a good thing though. It's proven once and for all that you need balance and the Alien itself to be held in absolute esteem for a licensed product to have a rat's chance in hell of succeeding, and the oorah-gun-masturbation fantasy is just as terrible and ridiculous as it sounds on paper.
As for the combat design itself, those things could still be fixed, but this is SEGA, a game company literally fifteen years behind the design curve of modern interactive digital fiction and one of the WORST licensed-game producers in the world, hands down.
They aren't going to put out the money for more than the allotted set of rollouts and probably a preapproved number of title updates, whether patches or DLC. They are legally obligated to support the game until august, so you can expect to see stuff further down the road, but there's never going to be a total overhaul, and frankly there's never been one from from any other game company either, ever; expecting one now is pretty naive.
Never license something you don't actually understand, and never commit to something you're not really interested in are the lessons to be learned here.
While the external stuff could be fixed, no one's going to put up the money, and for the story, anyone who paid the least bit of attention knew it gonna be bad from day one.
Good thing MP is really fun, if not even remotely balanced (marine dragon punch elbow, 1 hit across the map battle rifle for three points, super megaton exploding kamikaze spitters)
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 13, 2013, 05:27:27 AM
Christ, Gearbox...what the f**k happened? Holy shit.
People like this happened.
http://www.gamefront.com/gearboxs-randy-pitchford-reviewers-who-dont-like-duke-nukem-forever-will-be-held-accountable/ (http://www.gamefront.com/gearboxs-randy-pitchford-reviewers-who-dont-like-duke-nukem-forever-will-be-held-accountable/)
Am still confused by how people kept investing 100% belief in his interviews, even after being warned of the kind of things he's said in the past.
Especially when he compared '
Duke Nukem Forever' as being just as good as '
Half-Life 2'.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 14, 2013, 04:44:17 AM
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 13, 2013, 05:27:27 AM
Christ, Gearbox...what the f**k happened? Holy shit.
People like this happened.
http://www.gamefront.com/gearboxs-randy-pitchford-reviewers-who-dont-like-duke-nukem-forever-will-be-held-accountable/ (http://www.gamefront.com/gearboxs-randy-pitchford-reviewers-who-dont-like-duke-nukem-forever-will-be-held-accountable/)
Am still confused by how people kept investing 100% belief in his interviews, even after being warned of the kind of things he's said in the past.
Especially when he compared 'Duke Nukem Forever' as being just as good as 'Half-Life 2'.
I always heard how much of a douche he was at the backlash the game got, but I never read any exact quotes. Holy shit is Randy a pretentious bastard. Yeah, can't trust a word he says now...ever.
Quote from: jahickson on Feb 13, 2013, 11:07:06 PM
Hahaha right? My god, the writing is horrible. This is probably the best review I have seen haha:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/12/3979816/today-i-played-aliens-colonial-marines (http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/12/3979816/today-i-played-aliens-colonial-marines)
Did he say based off of
Prometheus? :laugh:
Quote from: Stringer2355 on Feb 14, 2013, 05:23:54 PM
How Aliens: Colonial Marines Fell Apart
http://kotaku.com/5984068/how-aliens-colonial-marines-fell-apart (http://kotaku.com/5984068/how-aliens-colonial-marines-fell-apart)
If this is true that means that gearbox actually made something good. And what they showed us in 2011 was from their own software. It's really upsetting to read that another studio f*cks it up so badly and that gearbox is gonna take the fall from that.
Quote from: Snowdog on Feb 14, 2013, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: Stringer2355 on Feb 14, 2013, 05:23:54 PM
How Aliens: Colonial Marines Fell Apart
http://kotaku.com/5984068/how-aliens-colonial-marines-fell-apart (http://kotaku.com/5984068/how-aliens-colonial-marines-fell-apart)
If this is true that means that gearbox actually made something good. And what they showed us in 2011 was from their own software. It's really upsetting to read that another studio f*cks it up so badly and that gearbox is gonna take the fall from that.
I don't understand exactly. If they had a budget as huge as it was why did they choose to outsource to this degree? Why not get extra staff so you can keep a personal eye on it? In particular if you're weary with TG to begin with?
Something seems fishy.
Quote from: ScardyFox on Feb 14, 2013, 06:09:23 PM
Quote from: Snowdog on Feb 14, 2013, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: Stringer2355 on Feb 14, 2013, 05:23:54 PM
How Aliens: Colonial Marines Fell Apart
http://kotaku.com/5984068/how-aliens-colonial-marines-fell-apart (http://kotaku.com/5984068/how-aliens-colonial-marines-fell-apart)
If this is true that means that gearbox actually made something good. And what they showed us in 2011 was from their own software. It's really upsetting to read that another studio f*cks it up so badly and that gearbox is gonna take the fall from that.
I don't understand exactly. If they had a budget as huge as it was why did they choose to outsource to this degree? Why not get extra staff so you can keep a personal eye on it? In particular if you're weary with TG to begin with?
Something seems fishy.
Agree on the fishy part.
I don't hate the game but I dislike the human enemy thing. It sucks!!! The alien parts on the other hand are better but I'm never scared. If an alien shows up I'll just shoot it and continue my journey. No need for a motion tracker no real tension. So thats kind of lame. Such a shame that a game with so much potential got released in Alpha game quality....
Still don't hate it but I'm not loving it either.
The blame game is just coming out of the woodwork. Here is one saying TimeGate didn't "do it".
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/sega-aliens-colonial-marines-sp-was-not-outsourced-to-timegate-studios/ (http://www.dsogaming.com/news/sega-aliens-colonial-marines-sp-was-not-outsourced-to-timegate-studios/)
Oh boy. Gearbox, just what the hell were you doing?
The word coming out of Timegate is that they did a lot of work on it, but have to play the game through to work out how much of their stuff made it to the final product.
Quote from: Xhan on Feb 14, 2013, 01:28:20 AM
As with Alien³, there's plenty of blame to go around.
To those whom say the Borderlands 2 did not interfere with A:CM's development, you are quite simply wrong. It's never going to be brought up in public or brought from behind closed doors, but BL2 impacted A:CM severely in the same way NOLF2 impacted AvP2, but to an even greater degree.
As for the story, it was done years ago. Literally. I actually pretty much called what was going to happen to the story point for point in 2007 and posted pretty much what we see in game then on the GBX forums. It wasn't word for word, but it was close enough that Mikey and Randy both addressed the thread directly themselves to allay concerns and give reasons why LV-426 should and would be re-explored, and why Marine gun-pr0n was the key to keeping user interest.
The story did get vastly simplified in regards to NPC happenstance and twists and turns, and some of that is actually still in the files thereof, but most of it, including what happened to other marines was set in stone.
Contrary to popular belief outsourcing happens all the time, and your favorite game probably contains a metric f**kton of outsourced or freelanced assets. I should know, it's one of the things I do.
Your favorite sword in that one adventure game was probably made by a chinese twentysomething in a literal art asset factory.
Assets outsourced can be an issue when there's no oversight or consistency amongst the art design and leads, and that's what happened here. When outsourcing you need a wrangler, Dead Space 2 and 3 contain a ton of chinese outsourced assets and the reason you can't tell between Visceral's and the contract people is because there was folks on both ends cracking the consistency whip.
That didn't happen in A:CM.
Hopping staff is also game design suicide, and it happened frequently throughout A:CM's development, by every company involved, including GBX, and even SEGA themselves.
Gearbox is a good company. They have a very flat management layer, they adapt quickly and their staff is loyal to a fault, and I mean literal fault, but even well intentioned folks can f**k stuff up, especially when you're playing musical chairs with design and implementation, again as Alien³ showed rather handily.
Sticking with the horrendous story and leaving behind the original tactical decision design base when the first iteration didn't work perfectly doomed SP from the beginning, the bad programming and lack of polish is simply icing on the cake.
Not sticking to canon for events and Alien design also shut a door before anyone could get through it. There's always a risk when you reinvent an already perfectly balanced wheel, and in THAT instance, yes GBX is guilty as hell and they knew they would be from the beginning and chose to do it anyway for the sake of colonial marine gun-pr0n fanservice, and it's pretty clear that was absolutely the wrong choice.
That's actually a good thing though. It's proven once and for all that you need balance and the Alien itself to be held in absolute esteem for a licensed product to have a rat's chance in hell of succeeding, and the oorah-gun-masturbation fantasy is just as terrible and ridiculous as it sounds on paper.
As for the combat design itself, those things could still be fixed, but this is SEGA, a game company literally fifteen years behind the design curve of modern interactive digital fiction and one of the WORST licensed-game producers in the world, hands down.
They aren't going to put out the money for more than the allotted set of rollouts and probably a preapproved number of title updates, whether patches or DLC. They are legally obligated to support the game until august, so you can expect to see stuff further down the road, but there's never going to be a total overhaul, and frankly there's never been one from from any other game company either, ever; expecting one now is pretty naive.
Never license something you don't actually understand, and never commit to something you're not really interested in are the lessons to be learned here.
While the external stuff could be fixed, no one's going to put up the money, and for the story, anyone who paid the least bit of attention knew it gonna be bad from day one.
Good thing MP is really fun, if not even remotely balanced (marine dragon punch elbow, 1 hit across the map battle rifle for three points, super megaton exploding kamikaze spitters)
Sir, your post is thoughtful and enlightening.
http://www.destructoid.com/so-who-the-hell-did-make-aliens-colonial-marines--244939.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/so-who-the-hell-did-make-aliens-colonial-marines--244939.phtml)
Article with everything thats happened so far in it.
"Curiouser and curiouser..."
Quote from: scm on Feb 15, 2013, 01:19:04 AM
http://www.destructoid.com/so-who-the-hell-did-make-aliens-colonial-marines--244939.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/so-who-the-hell-did-make-aliens-colonial-marines--244939.phtml)
Article with everything thats happened so far in it.
Wow, this is becoming a bigger clusterf**k than I imagined would happen. This is truly f**king insane. From that article that states everything so far that has happened; I gathered from it that Gearbox is completely at fault, SEGA basically sounds like they didn't even know about the outsourcing, and it seems that Time Gate was under strict supervision by Gearbox, yet GB made horrid f**king decisions....jesus christ...how the hell did Gearbox drop the ball. Pitchford alone must be to blame, there's no way that any of this wasn't made by his approval in some way, shape, or form.
I really do hope that we get to the bottom of this, because this is definitely going to be one of the most talked about stories for a long time. It's amazing how everything exploded overnight.
All those making of vids and interviews of the GBX guys damn near ejaculating with excitment over this game (especially you Randy), about how great it was and rumours suggest they barely touched the SP, they didn't even make the f***ing thing.
FUN FACT!!!!
i posted these words by that guy from that other forum in a topic a few days ago...and a few hours later it was deleted?
Any particular reason for that?
Quote from: szkoki on Feb 16, 2013, 02:52:25 PM
FUN FACT!!!!
i posted these words by that guy from that other forum in a topic a few days ago...and a few hours later it was deleted?
Any particular reason for that?
Most links and quotes regarding the game's development have either been removed (if duplicated) or split and merged with this thread when posted in unrelated topics to avoid derailing the threads.
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 10, 2013, 08:39:11 PM
Quote from: Darkness on Feb 10, 2013, 08:05:48 PM
Why didn't Sega just use a bigger developer in the first place if GBX was too busy?
It's not that much about them being busy but about making a game based on such a big franchise. It's always a delicate and tricky process.
If this game was such a big service and honor for them. Why the f**k did they move onto boarderlands 2 and give the game to someone else to work on. Apparently when they gave the game to Timegate to work on, timegate scrapped and removed all of the original assests and when GBX Got the game back, it was really shitty and they had to rebuild it.
They just need to release the SDK and this game will get fixed! Shit, that one cat added DX10 support in like a day...
Quote from: Guts on Feb 16, 2013, 04:12:02 PM
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 10, 2013, 08:39:11 PM
Quote from: Darkness on Feb 10, 2013, 08:05:48 PM
Why didn't Sega just use a bigger developer in the first place if GBX was too busy?
It's not that much about them being busy but about making a game based on such a big franchise. It's always a delicate and tricky process.
If this game was such a big service and honor for them. Why the f**k did they move onto boarderlands 2 and give the game to someone else to work on.
greed.
Gearbox was never a big company, Borderlands got to their heads.
Quote from: Guts on Feb 16, 2013, 04:12:02 PM
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 10, 2013, 08:39:11 PM
Quote from: Darkness on Feb 10, 2013, 08:05:48 PM
Why didn't Sega just use a bigger developer in the first place if GBX was too busy?
It's not that much about them being busy but about making a game based on such a big franchise. It's always a delicate and tricky process.
If this game was such a big service and honor for them. Why the f**k did they move onto boarderlands 2 and give the game to someone else to work on. Apparently when they gave the game to Timegate to work on, timegate scrapped and removed all of the original assests and when GBX Got the game back, it was really shitty and they had to rebuild it.
The game industry is that, an industry (and a complex one). What is said in public doesn't always match what happens behind-the-scenes. Neither are always things as simple as they seem as you can tell by recent events.
Quote from: DRAKE M. on Feb 16, 2013, 04:19:10 PM
They just need to release the SDK and this game will get fixed! Shit, that one cat added DX10 support in like a day...
Not going to happen mate.
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 16, 2013, 04:34:50 PM
Quote from: DRAKE M. on Feb 16, 2013, 04:19:10 PM
They just need to release the SDK and this game will get fixed! Shit, that one cat added DX10 support in like a day...
Not going to happen mate.
I guess the old days of dedicated servers and releasing the SDK are gone? (when it comes to an Alien game anyway) Damn, AVP2 had so many options to choose from....I remember a time when I could choose the species I wanted to play. Now they force you to switch sides! wtf? I won't even play versus mode because of that...oh well.
Quote from: DRAKE M. on Feb 16, 2013, 04:45:20 PM
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 16, 2013, 04:34:50 PM
Quote from: DRAKE M. on Feb 16, 2013, 04:19:10 PM
They just need to release the SDK and this game will get fixed! Shit, that one cat added DX10 support in like a day...
Not going to happen mate.
I guess the old days of dedicated servers and releasing the SDK are gone? (when it comes to an Alien game anyway) Damn, AVP2 had so many options to choose from....I remember a time when I could choose the species I wanted to play. Now they force you to switch sides! wtf? I won't even play versus mode because of that...oh well.
Those days are (generally) long behind us because of DLC. If you can make or mod the changes you want, they wont be able to sell you as much DLC. There are a few games who allow modding next to their DLC (notably Skyrim) but they're an ever decreasing minority.
Blame people like the fans who bought the season pass the day A:CM came out before playing to see how bad the game was, or those who pre-ordered the game before reading any reviews.
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 16, 2013, 04:55:00 PM
Those days are (generally) long behind us because of DLC. If you can make or mod the changes you want, they wont be able to sell you as much DLC. There are a few games who allow modding next to their DLC (notably Skyrim) but they're an ever decreasing minority.
Blame people like the fans who bought the season pass the day A:CM came out before playing to see how bad the game was, or those who pre-ordered the game before reading any reviews.
You can't accuse the developers of lying with one hand and then blame the
customers with the other. There were plenty of good reasons to buy the season pass and/or pre-order, if that's your thing, and they give you incentives for both. The odds were good that this would at least be an average game, and the anticipation was so great that a lot of people wanted to buy and play it just on principle of how long it's taken.
If you say they lied about the game, you can't blame people for believing their lies and taking someone's repeated word as the truth when they have little reason to think otherwise.
And I don't feel that something like DNF was a good reason to think that Pitchford was just selling us all a pile of bull. They had different circumstances, and if anything I personally would think the DNF mess would make Gearbox more likely to be honest this time around and avoid a repeat scenario.
Guess not.
the game wasn't looking that good even back when the graphics weren't FUBAR, you gotta admit.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 16, 2013, 05:21:42 PM
the game wasn't looking that good even back when the graphics weren't FUBAR, you gotta admit.
True, but it would have been decent enough at least.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 16, 2013, 05:13:29 PM
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 16, 2013, 04:55:00 PM
Those days are (generally) long behind us because of DLC. If you can make or mod the changes you want, they wont be able to sell you as much DLC. There are a few games who allow modding next to their DLC (notably Skyrim) but they're an ever decreasing minority.
Blame people like the fans who bought the season pass the day A:CM came out before playing to see how bad the game was, or those who pre-ordered the game before reading any reviews.
You can't accuse the developers of lying with one hand and then blame the customers with the other. There were plenty of good reasons to buy the season pass and/or pre-order, if that's your thing, and they give you incentives for both. The odds were good that this would at least be an average game, and the anticipation was so great that a lot of people wanted to buy and play it just on principle of how long it's taken.
If you say they lied about the game, you can't blame people for believing their lies and taking someone's repeated word as the truth when they have little reason to think otherwise.
And I don't feel that something like DNF was a good reason to think that Pitchford was just selling us all a pile of bull. They had different circumstances, and if anything I personally would think the DNF mess would make Gearbox more likely to be honest this time around and avoid a repeat scenario.
Guess not.
Actually, in my honest opinion, anyone buying the game on pre-order is entirely to blame for the abundance of pre-order shenanigans going on nowadays, the quality of the product doesn't come into the equation. My issue isn't with people falling for Gearbox/Randy's lies, the issue is people buying a game before having tried it or waited for a decent spectrum of reviews to arrive and allow them to make an informed decision.
The issue is: The more people pre-order a game and the more money devs make from day one purchases, the more likely they are to enforce release date review embargoes and produce sham marketing ploys to sucker in more pre-orders.
A:CM is a prime example, though not only shitty games are guilty of this, put out lots of bonuses as a 'reward' for pre-ordering a game that you have no real knowledge about in order to boost sales. And no, no matter how much controlled footage you watch, you can never know 100% how a game is until it has either been reviewed by a wide range of unbiased sources or released a demo and you can try the damn game yourself.
Even games that released to critical acclaim and financial success is guilty of this, take Dishonoured and it's 11 different release versions for example (I can't remember the exact number, but nearly every different store had it's own pre-order bonus of an exclusive in game ability).
Every time you pre-order a game, you're setting yourself up for a disappointment, and studios will continue to put out sub-standard products they can get away with on the back of those pre-orders. Look at the sheep who constantly bemoan CODs lack of improvement year on year, yet still fall foul of the pre-order marketing hype and buy the game before a substantial review or demo is released.
Gearbox made a shit game, I'm not deflecting away from that. Everyone who pre-ordered it and paid for the DLC season pass has basically said "Yeah, I'll buy it, it's got Aliens on it!". What they'll take away from this is that Aliens is hugely popular and will sell pretty much anything, the outrage and poor review scores only work in our favour if the game is a financial failure as well as a critical failure.
Stop pre-ordering games, waiting an extra day or two won't f**king kill you, but it could have saved you all £40/$60 and
really made an impact on what SEGA/Gearbox do in the future.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 16, 2013, 05:21:42 PM
the game wasn't looking that good even back when the graphics weren't FUBAR, you gotta admit.
Exactly why I've never felt hyped for it, to be honest.
Sega and Gearbox should be striped of the licence of Alien and Predator give it to crytek or rocksteady be much better for it.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 16, 2013, 05:21:42 PM
the game wasn't looking that good even back when the graphics weren't FUBAR, you gotta admit.
It looked great in 2008.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Feb 16, 2013, 06:48:38 PM
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 16, 2013, 05:21:42 PM
the game wasn't looking that good even back when the graphics weren't FUBAR, you gotta admit.
It looked great in 2008.
I disagree.
It looks "well" but not great.
Far better graphic existed already and since a few years.
They advertised it way too much which got people excited and expected more, then when it came out it wasnt what people expected. I think Advertisement played a role in its bad rep. I personally liked the game.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Feb 16, 2013, 06:48:38 PM
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 16, 2013, 05:21:42 PM
the game wasn't looking that good even back when the graphics weren't FUBAR, you gotta admit.
It looked great in 2008.
we didn't have gameplay back in 2008 and it was still a tactical squad shooter.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 16, 2013, 07:28:47 PM
Quote from: Cal427eb on Feb 16, 2013, 06:48:38 PM
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 16, 2013, 05:21:42 PM
the game wasn't looking that good even back when the graphics weren't FUBAR, you gotta admit.
It looked great in 2008.
we didn't have gameplay back in 2008 and it was still a tactical squad shooter.
I know. I thought those screen shots looked awesome and I thought we were going to be able to actually control a squad. Too bad none of that happened.
I thought this game was written by Bradley Thompson and David Weddle who wrote DS9 and BSG episodes?!! The story and dialogue is mental!
Quote from: SuperM on Feb 16, 2013, 07:40:34 PM
I thought this game was written by Bradley Thompson and David Weddle who wrote DS9 and BSG episodes?!! The story and dialogue is mental!
It was, at one point. The current mess belongs to Mikey Neuman, no one knows what Brad and David originally wrote.
I was so excited when they announced to do a Alien Game. And after endless waiting i finally was holding that game what i was waiting so much for in my hands. I already read some reviews, but i thougt ok these guys are not an Hardcore fan as iam... i should have known it better. After installing it on my PC i was thinking ok gearbox is kidding me. After waiting so long they give us that pice of sh*t. I cant belive how they played us all. And i am so disappointed i literally cried while i played the game. Because i think with that game they finally killed my beloved franchise.
What do you guys think, is it a god idea for a petiton for a adequate compensation?
Oh I see :(
Its time's like I wish they would have just shelved the damn thing and not release it at all. I'd rather have NO alien games than shitty ones...
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/aliens-colonial-marines-tester-spills-the-beans-sega-were-well-aware-the-game-sucks/ (http://www.dsogaming.com/news/aliens-colonial-marines-tester-spills-the-beans-sega-were-well-aware-the-game-sucks/)
http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png (http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png)
Another lie they said must be about the decals. Randy said that their artist made alot of skins for weapons....But they only place in 3 for each gun -_-
Man, if everything that came out these last couple days is legit, Gearbox is so getting sued.
I bet that just a group of fans can make an Aliens game that can be Canon
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 16, 2013, 11:36:58 PM
http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png (http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png)
this guy is just repeating what was all over the news and possibly making shit up.
I pray he's legit. I need a good Aliens game and I would hate it if Creative Assembly's game isn't any good.
wow, i will never forgive Gearbox, it seems they took the money Sega gave them, and then used it on Boarderlands, while giving the leftover coin to some medicore studio to finish the game. What assholes. I feel bad for Sega, they trusted Gearbox
I don't think a tester would have access to all the information this guy claims he has. Sounds like he's just parroting a lot of rumors that have already been circulated.
You would be surprised how much informations tester have.
Just sayin'
Quote from: Guts on Feb 17, 2013, 12:17:32 AM
wow, i will never forgive Gearbox, it seems they took the money Sega gave them, and then used it on Boarderlands, while giving the leftover coin to some medicore studio to finish the game. What assholes. I feel bad for Sega, they trusted Gearbox
If this is true, I would fully support Sega suing their asses.
Quote[UPDATE2]
According to /r/Games moderator 'nothis':
"Guy just deleted everything. He sent as good confirmation as one could expect on the internet. Maybe just a troll or tomorrow we'll learn how "reddit was gamed by the investigative uber journalist" and why we shouldn't trust any sources ever. Or he got cold feet after revisiting his contract with Gearbox."
If he deleted everything doesn't that make his information even more trustworthy?
Quote from: Cal427eb on Feb 17, 2013, 01:09:58 AM
If he deleted everything doesn't that make his information even more trustworthy?
Depends on how you look at it.
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 16, 2013, 11:36:58 PM
http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png (http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png)
The positive words about Creative Assembly's Alien game... good to hear :) "Slow. Dark. Good graphics." :)
I sure f**king hope so.
Simply because of that post I hope he's legit.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 17, 2013, 01:14:09 AM
Depends on how you look at it.
Ehh, I guess.
Quote from: Blacklabel on Feb 17, 2013, 01:16:32 AM
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 16, 2013, 11:36:58 PM
http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png (http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png)
The positive words about Creative Assembly's Alien game... good to hear :) "Slow. Dark. Good graphics." :)
This.
I wonder what kind of game it's going to be like. What genre?
The bit about how big the budget was matches with what I've heard.
Third times a charm right? Least people arent getting in the way of CA's Alien.
Quote from: Guts on Feb 17, 2013, 04:01:14 AM
Third times a charm right? Least people arent getting in the way of CA's Alien.
For now.
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 16, 2013, 11:36:58 PM
http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png (http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png)
As they apparently verified him/her, what's said is interesting. Especially with verification of the supposed demonstration build
never having been sent for testing. Not that I was ever impressed with it as in any way fresh or innovative, but if this is true, it would back up the view of that version never ultimately being intended for the public.
Squad control was the one thing I was surprised, however, to see go down the pan. Should've been incredibly easy. Flight simulators were doing it for wingmen, way back in the 1990s. Oh, how I miss the likes of '
EF-2000'... They're either dumbed down arcade shooters or way too complicated, these days. Nothing realistic
and relatively accessible.
Would've liked to seen confirmation over what
type of game Creative Assembly are doing development for, but you can't have everything. :)
We'll have an idea about how accurate this is if the Nintendo version either has those mini-games or is cancelled.
"Yes, there will be legal ramifications."
Ominous...
SEGA is gonna go nuts.
let the bodies hit the floor.
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 16, 2013, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: szkoki on Feb 16, 2013, 02:52:25 PM
FUN FACT!!!!
i posted these words by that guy from that other forum in a topic a few days ago...and a few hours later it was deleted?
Any particular reason for that?
Most links and quotes regarding the game's development have either been removed (if duplicated) or split and merged with this thread when posted in unrelated topics to avoid derailing the threads.
thx ikarop
Now read it somewhere -only the translation not the original- that sega denies the fact he outsorced the game rather timegate and other devs only helped gbx because they were too busy with borderlands and etc. But its a90% gbx work
sounds bullshit to me...or the lets pointing our fingers begins
This was posted in the gearbox forums about a QA that started posting some interesting facts about the "development hell" that was A:CM on reddit. The QA has since deleted his posts and his account but there was a SS taken of the whole thing. An interesting read that adds onto the ongoing story.
http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png (http://i1.minus.com/iTeTRho14DHI6.png)
Reddit admin proving the poster was infact an employee
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee137/aranathos/verified_zps7637dd5a.png (http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee137/aranathos/verified_zps7637dd5a.png)
This is indeed a fascinating read and very interesting rammifications if true but this has already been posted and discussed in another thread.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=47114.165 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=47114.165)
Ah didn't read all the ongoing threads and didn't see a topic on this so felt since this is probably the biggest bomb shell yet it deserved it's own thread :P
Mods can delete or keep it going what ever they want to do :)
Topics merged.
Quote from: Deathly_rYaN on Feb 17, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
I bet that just a group of fans can make an Aliens game that can be Canon
That's effectively what Gearbox were...
Entering the territory of hardcore fan-boy/girl-ism is when you step over the line into pure enthusiasm at the expense of reason and common sense.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 17, 2013, 04:02:03 PM
Topics merged.
Quote from: Deathly_rYaN on Feb 17, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
I bet that just a group of fans can make an Aliens game that can be Canon
That's effectively what Gearbox were...
Entering the territory of hardcore fan-boy/girl-ism is when you step over the line into pure enthusiasm at the expense of reason and common sense.
I hardly think so, Xenomorphine... Fans would not do what they did! Fans would give this game their fullest attention, they did not! Fans would KNOW what we would like to se in an Aliens game AND have the technical and storytelling expertise to build up on that amazing world and go beyond it! And certainly Fans would have NOT have BSed other fans!
I think Gearbox deserves all the fallout imaginable after this total lack of respect for their contract, for being derelict of duty, and certainly for lying so shamelessly for months and months!
I hope they get the punishment they deserve, like no other publishing houses ordering any games to them! I think this has to stop! This is not just a fan thing, this is an ethical issue! An issue I hope Sega takes to the last consequences... I bet they never knew Gearbox actually outsourced ALL of the SP campaign to TimeGate... I bet Sega would never allow a company that has no relevant experience, especially in Alien games, to be in charge of such an important game for, for us and for the industry! ESPECIALLY after saying that this excuse of a story is now CANON! OMG
Cheers!
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 17, 2013, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 17, 2013, 04:02:03 PM
Topics merged.
Quote from: Deathly_rYaN on Feb 17, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
I bet that just a group of fans can make an Aliens game that can be Canon
That's effectively what Gearbox were...
Entering the territory of hardcore fan-boy/girl-ism is when you step over the line into pure enthusiasm at the expense of reason and common sense.
I hardly think so, Xenomorphine... Fans would not do what they did! Fans would give this game their fullest attention, they did not! Fans would KNOW what we would like to se in an Aliens game AND have the technical and storytelling expertise to build up on that amazing world and go beyond it! And certainly Fans would have NOT have BSed other fans!
I think Gearbox deserves all the fallout imaginable after this total lack of respect for their contract, for being derelict of duty, and certainly for lying so shamelessly for months and months!
I hope they get the punishment they deserve, like no other publishing houses ordering any games to them! I think this has to stop! This is not just a fan thing, this is an ethical issue! An issue I hope Sega takes to the last consequences... I bet they never knew Gearbox actually outsourced ALL of the SP campaign to TimeGate... I bet Sega would never allow a company that has no relevant experience, especially in Alien games, to be in charge of such an important game for, for us and for the industry! ESPECIALLY after saying that this excuse of a story is now CANON! OMG
Cheers!
Yeah but fans got a wife and child too.
If you have no money to feed them, you won't work.
Quote from: Le Celticant on Feb 17, 2013, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 17, 2013, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 17, 2013, 04:02:03 PM
Topics merged.
Quote from: Deathly_rYaN on Feb 17, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
I bet that just a group of fans can make an Aliens game that can be Canon
That's effectively what Gearbox were...
Entering the territory of hardcore fan-boy/girl-ism is when you step over the line into pure enthusiasm at the expense of reason and common sense.
I hardly think so, Xenomorphine... Fans would not do what they did! Fans would give this game their fullest attention, they did not! Fans would KNOW what we would like to se in an Aliens game AND have the technical and storytelling expertise to build up on that amazing world and go beyond it! And certainly Fans would have NOT have BSed other fans!
I think Gearbox deserves all the fallout imaginable after this total lack of respect for their contract, for being derelict of duty, and certainly for lying so shamelessly for months and months!
I hope they get the punishment they deserve, like no other publishing houses ordering any games to them! I think this has to stop! This is not just a fan thing, this is an ethical issue! An issue I hope Sega takes to the last consequences... I bet they never knew Gearbox actually outsourced ALL of the SP campaign to TimeGate... I bet Sega would never allow a company that has no relevant experience, especially in Alien games, to be in charge of such an important game for, for us and for the industry! ESPECIALLY after saying that this excuse of a story is now CANON! OMG
Cheers!
Yeah but fans got a wife and child too.
If you have no money to feed them, you won't work.
They should have thought of that, before craping all over this game! All they had to do was to fulfill their contract with the dedication and professionalism any contract implies! I think Gearbox treated us fans like cattle, easily manipulated and underestimating us into believing that any piece of crap with Aliens in it would be enough, or thinkjing that hype alone would give them the sales they wanted! I think we all got duped big time! And for that, Randy and the other members of Gearbox should be out of the job! Unethical as they were, and pursuing their own agenda and even using time and money given to them By Sega to invest on Borderlands, clearly breaching their contract, I think Sega can and should give them nine circles of hell! So that this could send the signals to other companies what they should expect when they violate their contract to pursue their own private agendas! Randy, you will never have credibility again! You should step down! Gearbox, because of all this ethical and professional debacle, will never have my money again! I don't and will never trust them again!
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 17, 2013, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 17, 2013, 04:02:03 PM
Topics merged.
Quote from: Deathly_rYaN on Feb 17, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
I bet that just a group of fans can make an Aliens game that can be Canon
That's effectively what Gearbox were...
Entering the territory of hardcore fan-boy/girl-ism is when you step over the line into pure enthusiasm at the expense of reason and common sense.
I hardly think so, Xenomorphine... Fans would not do what they did! Fans would give this game their fullest attention, they did not! Fans would KNOW what we would like to se in an Aliens game AND have the technical and storytelling expertise to build up on that amazing world and go beyond it! And certainly Fans would have NOT have BSed other fans!
I think Gearbox deserves all the fallout imaginable after this total lack of respect for their contract, for being derelict of duty, and certainly for lying so shamelessly for months and months!
I hope they get the punishment they deserve, like no other publishing houses ordering any games to them! I think this has to stop! This is not just a fan thing, this is an ethical issue! An issue I hope Sega takes to the last consequences... I bet they never knew Gearbox actually outsourced ALL of the SP campaign to TimeGate... I bet Sega would never allow a company that has no relevant experience, especially in Alien games, to be in charge of such an important game for, for us and for the industry! ESPECIALLY after saying that this excuse of a story is now CANON! OMG
Cheers!
You really believe that? Fans on this forum can't even agree over what would make a good Aliens game, let alone saying that "Fans would KNOW what we would like to see in an Aliens game". Know? f**k we can't even all agree whether we want a solo campaign focussed game or a MP/CO-OP focussed game.
Then every time an AVP is announced we have the Pred fans who don't want Aliens in their Predator franchise, and Aliens fans who don't want Preds in their Alien franchise! We're a fanbase naturally divided by those who enjoyed Alien/Alien 3's horror and those who prefer Aliens action-horror. We're a fanbase who cannot truly come to any sort of consensus because there are as many opinions as there are fans to voice them.
Just being a fan doesn't make you infallible at making something relating to whatever you a fan of.
If all this true I hope gearbox are destroyed.
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 17, 2013, 05:09:59 PM
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 17, 2013, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 17, 2013, 04:02:03 PM
Topics merged.
Quote from: Deathly_rYaN on Feb 17, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
I bet that just a group of fans can make an Aliens game that can be Canon
That's effectively what Gearbox were...
Entering the territory of hardcore fan-boy/girl-ism is when you step over the line into pure enthusiasm at the expense of reason and common sense.
I hardly think so, Xenomorphine... Fans would not do what they did! Fans would give this game their fullest attention, they did not! Fans would KNOW what we would like to se in an Aliens game AND have the technical and storytelling expertise to build up on that amazing world and go beyond it! And certainly Fans would have NOT have BSed other fans!
I think Gearbox deserves all the fallout imaginable after this total lack of respect for their contract, for being derelict of duty, and certainly for lying so shamelessly for months and months!
I hope they get the punishment they deserve, like no other publishing houses ordering any games to them! I think this has to stop! This is not just a fan thing, this is an ethical issue! An issue I hope Sega takes to the last consequences... I bet they never knew Gearbox actually outsourced ALL of the SP campaign to TimeGate... I bet Sega would never allow a company that has no relevant experience, especially in Alien games, to be in charge of such an important game for, for us and for the industry! ESPECIALLY after saying that this excuse of a story is now CANON! OMG
Cheers!
You really believe that? Fans on this forum can't even agree over what would make a good Aliens game, let alone saying that "Fans would KNOW what we would like to see in an Aliens game". Know? f**k we can't even all agree whether we want a solo campaign focussed game or a MP/CO-OP focussed game.
Then every time an AVP is announced we have the Pred fans who don't want Aliens in their Predator franchise, and Aliens fans who don't want Preds in their Alien franchise! We're a fanbase naturally divided by those who enjoyed Alien/Alien 3's horror and those who prefer Aliens action-horror. We're a fanbase who cannot truly come to any sort of consensus because there are as many opinions as there are fans to voice them.
Just being a fan doesn't make you infallible at making something relating to whatever you a fan of.
Fully agree with you, Elicas... But this is no AVP! This is an Aliens sequel in game form! I think all Alien fans converge on what they would want to see and the quality of treatment this Sci-fi saga deserves!
Aliens is not AVP! And Gearbox treated the Aliens sequel like it was an AVP game, only far worse! Gearbox showed, with this game, that all they care about is money and being in a creative process, this kind of mercenary behavior is proof that they direly need of new guidance! Otherwise, they deserve to fall into oblivion!
The Alien saga is not a crossover cashcow! It goes beyond that and I am sure as an Alien fan, and I have been here and read most of my fellow ALien fans remarks, we mostly are in tune with the respect we demand from Fox, the programmers, the editors, etc, even if we personally favor this character over that one or this set over that one...!
Anderson: Fan-boy.
Strause brothers: Fan-boys.
Pitchford: Fan-boy.
Being a fan is fine, so long as you don't lose sight of how to make the basic product good, regardless of the licence. Orgasming over whose face model you've scanned in or right to manufacture a specific type of rubber suit means nothing if you wind up putting said digital model or rubber suit into something hopelessly mediocre.
Incidentally, this is why a TV series usually won't take new writers in unless they give examples of writing for other shows. They want to know if you're a decent writer, period, not whether you've got an encyclopaedic knowledge of what's taken place.
Just take a look over the majority of fan-films (and, especially, fan-written scripts) and you'll see that the majority aren't in the league of what you would call decent.
But as SM's said, in this particular case, it wouldn't have hurt Gearbox to have got a few respected consultants in to help with their oft-trumpeted authenticity claims - or just watched the films in an objective manner.
Did anyone of the self-professed hardcore fans working at gearbox ever sit down to play the game and read Hicks' bio? Who even wrote it?
Quote from: Predaker on Feb 17, 2013, 06:23:55 PM
Did anyone of the self-professed hardcore fans working at gearbox ever sit down to play the game and read Hicks' bio? Who even wrote it?
Maybe Timegate did that bit :D
A wizard did it.
Interesting fan discussion up there. I'd like to drop in my two cents and say that one of the many things that worries me when "fans" get ahold of their own property is that they can strip those elements which they enjoy the most out of the larger framework of solid fiction and storytelling.
Even with games, the developers focus on what resonates strongest from Aliens to them, and in this case, that's both incredibly troubling and way off the mark from the majority of other viewers. Those "cool" elements are "cool" because they're in a well constructed tale, exactly where elements like that are supposed to be.
Strip them out of the larger narrative, and they lose all context and meaning. Focusing on these elements too much, or at best letting them distract you from creating a powerful story, seem common to the hardcore fans that create their own things. It results in an immature product, but that's not a judgment call on someone's personality, only on their ability to understand, dissect, and reconstruct stories and narrative plotlines well.
It's like saying a lawyer won't make a good doctor. There are people who can understand the core elements of stories and how they're used better than others, though anyone can probably learn.. but there are also people that obviously don't do this as well, or fans that can be distracted by the coolness that they get to wield.
"Like a kid who's gotten ahold of his dad's gun!"Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theshiznit.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fmain%2Fjurassic-park-week-why-i-love-ian-malcolm-chaos-nerd.jpg&hash=33ceb85a8436a962383dd2e4bac112bd33160baa)
Pitchford had the passion, and the knowledge, but his priorities were apparently a bit off. His idea of what 'Aliens' is to fans must have been quite underdeveloped, given how shallow our final product (the story, I mean) ended up being. We've also entered territory where he's just become an open and pathological liar. :-\
At least the Bros. could come out and acknowledge mistakes post-mortem.
I doubt Pitchford even had the passion. If you have passion for a project, you don't put it on hold 2-3 times, to work on other projects.
Quote from: Dusk on Feb 17, 2013, 07:29:55 PM
I doubt Pitchford even had the passion. If you have passion for a project, you don't put it on hold 2-3 times, to work on other projects.
Pa$$ion
indeed. :laugh:
Quote from: Dusk on Feb 17, 2013, 07:29:55 PM
If you have passion for a project, you don't put it on hold 2-3 times, to work on other projects.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcomicbookmovie.com%2Fimages%2Fusers%2Fuploads%2F18926%2Fguillermo-del-toro1.jpg&hash=f3ba9c95a847925683bb106fe9e9fbdc60ca71b2)
Alright, I need more info.
Quote from: Dusk on Feb 17, 2013, 07:40:02 PM
Alright, I need more info.
Del Toro pretty much takes up a movie, only to somehow drop it, and work on something else and one other thing. Take for instance his desire to make At The Mountains of Madness. He basically has stopped work on that and now he's working on Pacific Rim, producing a Hulk TV show, making a video game, developing a sequel to Pacific Rim, etc. He's sort-of-not-working on other projects, not sure where his Frankenstein movie is at nowadays, but I don't think any work has been done on that for a while now. Recently he was going to do Pinocchio, but I think that was dropped as well...there's a few more examples, but I think I've made my point.
Great point, Shadow. ;) but Del Toro gets a free pass because he makes great shit. :laugh:
He's good at dodging the M. Night Shyamalahdlmvnehm bullets, apparently.
I can't argue with that.
The situation just keeps on shocking me. Gearbox spent money for ACM on Borderlands? And the Wii U version is apparently worse than what's already been released?
I *really* hope Sega sue Gearbox. I think they'd have a great case here.
Nice to hear about the Creative Assembly game though.
Quote from: Darkness on Feb 17, 2013, 07:48:22 PM
The situation just keeps on shocking me. Gearbox spent money for ACM on Borderlands? And the Wii U version is apparently worse than what's already been released?
I *really* hope Sega sue Gearbox. I think they'd have a great case here.
Nice to hear about the Creative Assembly game though.
It really is baffling. How they could do this is beyond me. Hearing Randy Pitchford's voice in previews and interviews makes my stomach churn.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 17, 2013, 05:32:56 PM
Anderson: Fan-boy.
Strause brothers: Fan-boys.
Pitchford: Fan-boy.
Being a fan is fine, so long as you don't lose sight of how to make the basic product good, regardless of the licence. Orgasming over whose face model you've scanned in or right to manufacture a specific type of rubber suit means nothing if you wind up putting said digital model or rubber suit into something hopelessly mediocre.
Incidentally, this is why a TV series usually won't take new writers in unless they give examples of writing for other shows. They want to know if you're a decent writer, period, not whether you've got an encyclopaedic knowledge of what's taken place.
Just take a look over the majority of fan-films (and, especially, fan-written scripts) and you'll see that the majority aren't in the league of what you would call decent.
But as SM's said, in this particular case, it wouldn't have hurt Gearbox to have got a few respected consultants in to help with their oft-trumpeted authenticity claims - or just watched the films in an objective manner.
The issue here is not being a fan-boy, but being a
Colonial Marine fan boy, which is the same issue Rebellion had via Preds.
There are some opinion based comments on that SOE's tester AMA. I'm not trying to make any excuses for GBX but I know for a fact that they were creating content and adding it to the game after it came back from Timegate. It wasn't only progression blockers or crashes being fixed.
i find it interesting that the moderators/admins here are commenting on these forums now about this mess :D
- i like it. :)
i think they spent their money on those shitty mini documentaries where the developers "try" to look cool with their names popping up all fancy n stuff...
QuoteAnderson: Fan-boy.
Strause brothers: Fan-boys.
Pitchford: Fan-boy.
You forgot Whedon in that list.
QuotePitchford had the passion, and the knowledge, but his priorities were apparently a bit off.
Knowledge of what? It certainly wasn't the universe he was working in.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 17, 2013, 07:38:43 PM
Quote from: Dusk on Feb 17, 2013, 07:29:55 PM
If you have passion for a project, you don't put it on hold 2-3 times, to work on other projects.
http://comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/18926/guillermo-del-toro1.jpg
Filmmakers are
always putting shit on hold - often for years - until they're in the best position to do them. The comparison is flawed.
I think back to the comments about Gearbox having access to all of Fox's archives for Aliens, for sound files and film information and canon and blah blah. Meeting with Ridley, too. I mean, such a hype show, and for what?
What in the story could they not have accomplished without all of that?
If they only would have put half of the effort in the game, that they used to hype this.
Quote from: SM on Feb 17, 2013, 10:41:46 PM
QuoteAnderson: Fan-boy.
Strause brothers: Fan-boys.
Pitchford: Fan-boy.
You forgot Whedon in that list.
QuotePitchford had the passion, and the knowledge, but his priorities were apparently a bit off.
Knowledge of what? It certainly wasn't the universe he was working in.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 17, 2013, 07:38:43 PM
Quote from: Dusk on Feb 17, 2013, 07:29:55 PM
If you have passion for a project, you don't put it on hold 2-3 times, to work on other projects.
http://comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/18926/guillermo-del-toro1.jpg
Filmmakers are always putting shit on hold - often for years - until they're in the best position to do them. The comparison is flawed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7MWiwctME# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7MWiwctME#)
Jive mothers.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Feb 17, 2013, 07:43:48 PM
Quote from: Dusk on Feb 17, 2013, 07:40:02 PM
Alright, I need more info.
Del Toro pretty much takes up a movie, only to somehow drop it, and work on something else and one other thing. Take for instance his desire to make At The Mountains of Madness. He basically has stopped work on that and now he's working on Pacific Rim, producing a Hulk TV show, making a video game, developing a sequel to Pacific Rim, etc. He's sort-of-not-working on other projects, not sure where his Frankenstein movie is at nowadays, but I don't think any work has been done on that for a while now. Recently he was going to do Pinocchio, but I think that was dropped as well...there's a few more examples, but I think I've made my point.
He stopped working on At the Mountains of Madness because publishing studios didn't like his budget plans and wanted him to produce a PG13 film, which he didn't want to do. And then Prometheus came out with similar themes, so Del Toro has stopped his work on the film completely.
It restarted. He basically saw 'Prometheus', realised it wasn't nearly as close as to what he planned as had been feared and pretty much went, "F**k it," then started production back up.
The other 2 projects on his plate. The Hulk TV Show isn't up to him, until Marvel finally gives it the green light. Which I hope they don't. You can't create an awesome Hulk on a TV budget. And his Video game? THQ wouldn't back him because they were short on cash, and are now gone.
I hope Gearbox gets sued.
I remember all that time ago talk of a immersive co-op experience, no HUD, squad based game play... all too good to be true.
I played borderlands 1, to be honest it was fun, but I really didn't think it lived up to the hype,. I was thinking about getting borderlands 2 but now, despite the fact I think I would enjoy it, I'll be damned before I buy another gearbox game.
Lying scum.
And as for Del Toro, cut the guy some slack, he basically had a couple of years of his life wasted waiting for the hobbit to start, I think it's understandable that he's taking a more cautious approach to projects after that. And as someone already said, the man makes good shit.
Hi everyone,
Please like that Page:. https://www.facebook.com/Petition4ACM?ref=stream. (https://www.facebook.com/Petition4ACM?ref=stream.)
And don't forget to tell everyone who is not satisfied with the game...That means everyone :p
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 18, 2013, 12:24:57 AM
It restarted. He basically saw 'Prometheus', realised it wasn't nearly as close as to what he planned as had been feared and pretty much went, "F**k it," then started production back up.
Awesome. That's fantastic news as
At the Mountains of Madness is pretty amazing and deserves a film adaptation.
I too hope SEGA sues Gearbox, but I also hope that is a wakeup call for the gaming press. We've seen numerous articles now about the false advertising of the game, let's see this have consequence on the future dealings Gearbox and Pitchford have within the gaming industry. I want to see websites like IGN and Gamespot refuse to print previews for Gearbox games.
Let this be an end of 'bullshots' and have the gaming press develop a backbone. No more embargos too.
Quote from: CONKERSBADFURDAY on Feb 18, 2013, 11:38:05 PM
Awesome. That's fantastic news as At the Mountains of Madness is pretty amazing and deserves a film adaptation.
"I saw it finally and... Yes, there are things in common, but, you know, screw it. Lovecraft was there first."
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/BatFreak/news/?a=72246 (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/BatFreak/news/?a=72246)
Presently being discussed over at:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=43247.60 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=43247.60)
Quote from: redxavier on Feb 19, 2013, 12:13:45 AM
I too hope SEGA sues Gearbox, but I also hope that is a wakeup call for the gaming press. We've seen numerous articles now about the false advertising of the game, let's see this have consequence on the future dealings Gearbox and Pitchford have within the gaming industry. I want to see websites like IGN and Gamespot refuse to print previews for Gearbox games.
Let this be an end of 'bullshots' and have the gaming press develop a backbone. No more embargos too.
Not gonna happen. Those same websites will be sucking his dick over Borderlands 3 in a year or so, knowing that if they don't bend over they won't get any exclusive interviews, early previews etc. etc. So many Gearbox fanboys/Borederlands sheep will buy their next game no matter what because "yay Borderlands/BIA" that this will ultimately have little to no impact whatsoever on Gearbox or the industry as a whole.
Just look at this time, when people were never going to trust them after DNF.
I didn't trust them after that.
Quote from: SpeedyMaxx on Feb 19, 2013, 08:25:17 AM
I didn't trust them after that.
Congratulations, you'll probably be one amongst every ten, possibly even hundred thousand fans. Even if ten thousand of us didn't buy the game because of DNF, with 300,000 pre-orders i'm very sure they don't really give a f**k.
Too many sheep out there for our voices to either be heard, or to really matter.
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 19, 2013, 01:04:42 AM
Not gonna happen. Those same websites will be sucking his dick over Borderlands 3 in a year or so, knowing that if they don't bend over they won't get any exclusive interviews, early previews etc. etc.
Then we are lost, because those are the only people (except Sega's lawyers) who have any power to 'punish' Gearbox and make this whole affair more than just the controversy de jour.
Quote from: redxavier on Feb 19, 2013, 10:09:52 AM
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 19, 2013, 01:04:42 AM
Not gonna happen. Those same websites will be sucking his dick over Borderlands 3 in a year or so, knowing that if they don't bend over they won't get any exclusive interviews, early previews etc. etc.
Then we are lost, because those are the only people (except Sega's lawyers) who have any power to 'punish' Gearbox and make this whole affair more than just the controversy de jour.
Of course, that's how the industry works. Give bad reviews to developer/publisher X too many times and you lose out on early preview/review code which means you lose out on many of your general casual readership who want to know about the latest shiney, thus you'll typically end up either A: going out of business or B: sacking the reviewer who gave the bad scores. For eg. the whole Kane and Lynch fiasco, think it was with Gamespot.
It even happens with fansites you know, I've written MMO tanking for a few down the years such as TankTelara and Force Junkies, and we always see a big spike in our readership whenever we're given preview photos or exclusive interviews. React badly to a patch, criticise something on the forums or disagree with a patch cycle over class nerfs/buffs and you'll find your site getting less promotional material, sometimes even having the designers you were talking to about the Math in your guides refuse to answer emails part way through a discussion. Suddenly, your website is f**ked, and TankTelara died a death within weeks of the games release after we did a poll asking about the communities top ten issues that needed fixing. Preview material dried up, Trion stopped answering my mail, the site died.
I think lotsa people just wanna see what the fuss is all about. Truth is alot of people don't give a rats ass whether the game is good or not once it gets this much attention.
The majority of consumers play so many games in a year that they are literally quite happy with a familiar buzz for a few hours til a truelly great game comes along, they probably already have targetted.
A:CM for them is - "Oh man, lets see how bad it really is? Meh, that was fun for a bit, next!"
This is a lesson in true game design. Take what you have & make something out of it. If its a sensational masterpiece, great!; if not but you can make as much money outta it, thats just as good for the bottom line.
At the end of the day few people can make something outta nothing, nevermind expecting something great outta nothing.
Seen so many topics about Sega suing or class actions. Its like everyones an authority on something just coz they have a strong, biased, point of view.
Truth is Sega's probably not complaining too much because the contract has made them money. Lots of it.
Thats what it had to achieve. Now if it never made a dime, yah Sega would be in talks with devs about how to recoupe $60 million. No way that any publisher is going to take down a studio that generally does good work, no matter how angry I am about another Alien game that never did much on my ricter-scale.
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 19, 2013, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: redxavier on Feb 19, 2013, 12:13:45 AM
I too hope SEGA sues Gearbox, but I also hope that is a wakeup call for the gaming press. We've seen numerous articles now about the false advertising of the game, let's see this have consequence on the future dealings Gearbox and Pitchford have within the gaming industry. I want to see websites like IGN and Gamespot refuse to print previews for Gearbox games.
Let this be an end of 'bullshots' and have the gaming press develop a backbone. No more embargos too.
Not gonna happen. Those same websites will be sucking his dick over Borderlands 3 in a year or so, knowing that if they don't bend over they won't get any exclusive interviews, early previews etc. etc. So many Gearbox fanboys/Borederlands sheep will buy their next game no matter what because "yay Borderlands/BIA" that this will ultimately have little to no impact whatsoever on Gearbox or the industry as a whole.
Just look at this time, when people were never going to trust them after DNF.
Unless I completely missed understood what you wrote, people should be excited as hell for Borderlands 3, if they were fans of 1 and 2. Calling them sheep for buying a gearbox game, because of what happened to ACM, who a lot probably won't play, is kind of silly.
Quote from: Prime113 on Feb 19, 2013, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 19, 2013, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: redxavier on Feb 19, 2013, 12:13:45 AM
I too hope SEGA sues Gearbox, but I also hope that is a wakeup call for the gaming press. We've seen numerous articles now about the false advertising of the game, let's see this have consequence on the future dealings Gearbox and Pitchford have within the gaming industry. I want to see websites like IGN and Gamespot refuse to print previews for Gearbox games.
Let this be an end of 'bullshots' and have the gaming press develop a backbone. No more embargos too.
Not gonna happen. Those same websites will be sucking his dick over Borderlands 3 in a year or so, knowing that if they don't bend over they won't get any exclusive interviews, early previews etc. etc. So many Gearbox fanboys/Borederlands sheep will buy their next game no matter what because "yay Borderlands/BIA" that this will ultimately have little to no impact whatsoever on Gearbox or the industry as a whole.
Just look at this time, when people were never going to trust them after DNF.
Unless I completely missed understood what you wrote, people should be excited as hell for Borderlands 3, if they were fans of 1 and 2. Calling them sheep for buying a gearbox game, because of what happened to ACM, who a lot probably won't play, is kind of silly.
I'm calling them sheep for following a bad developer that f**ks up 1 in every three games they release, and of those released only one could be called 'great', and that is debatable (Borderlands 2 is their only game with an average rating of 90+). Lets have a look at the FPS games they've developed (because comparing other games quality to a fps in useless in the discussion of A:CM) and disregard games they've only ported such as Halo PC (because they didn't actually make said games).
(all scores taken from metacritic for PC, console shooters are a whole different kettle of fish)Opposing Force - Mid 80's
Blue Shift - mid 60's
007 Nightfire - mid to high 50's
BIA - mid 80's
BIA-EIB - low 80's
BIA-HH - low 70's, with an accompanying pre-release preview demo that had close to 0 gameplay from the final version, around three months before release.
Borderlands 1+2, notorious for their DLC skimming, highly rated for their MP coop, two of the worst single player shooters ever. Generally received favourably, personally I hate them, but enough people rate them highly for them to be seen as good. Borderlands sits in the low to mid 80's and Borderlands 2 sits on 90 exactly.
DNF - low to mid 40's, with the excuse they did next to no work on the game despite having it for at least a year (some sites have reported two years) before release.
A:CM - low to mid 40's, with an accompanying pre-release preview demo that had close to 0 gameplay from the final version, still being shown as of october 2012, around three months before release. Screenshots of which, are still on the Steam Store page!
What we can see is four games in the 80's, good but not great. One game bang on 90, the borderline between good and great. Two games in the sixties/seventies which comes up as average but flawed. Three games in the 40's/50's (coincidently two being their last releases). That's an exact split of 5 good 5 bad games, two of them known as the f**king worst FPS games to have been released in the last decade at least, if not the worst since Daikatana.
Pre-ordering on a 50% chance to get a good game, with a 10% chance of getting a great game? Yes, anyone who does that is a sheep.
Also: Borderlands 1 and 2 were f**king shite.
http://www.destructoid.com/developer-gearbox-lied-to-sega-2k-over-colonial-marines-245986.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/developer-gearbox-lied-to-sega-2k-over-colonial-marines-245986.phtml)
I've watched Aliens again last night, and what i noticed...they failed to make Ripley's Duct taped PR/FT movie accurate.
None of the images were reveres ed at all
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1209.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc397%2FDeathly_rYaN%2FACMWrong.png&hash=1555f87e5da968d6bdc8c4e2844320090091615f)
I'm shocked.
Is that sarcasm SM? ::)
I'm sure I have no idea what you're talking about.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Feb 20, 2013, 01:15:56 AM
Is that sarcasm SM? ::)
Im sure Ripleys face is ow shocked SM is :P
Quote from: Deathly_rYaN on Feb 20, 2013, 01:11:51 AM
I've watched Aliens again last night, and what i noticed...they failed to make Ripley's Duct taped PR/FT movie accurate.
None of the images were reveres ed at all
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc397/Deathly_rYaN/ACMWrong.png
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=45518.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=45518.0)
They had five months and they never fixed it, big suprise.
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 19, 2013, 06:27:18 PM
Quote from: Prime113 on Feb 19, 2013, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 19, 2013, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: redxavier on Feb 19, 2013, 12:13:45 AM
I too hope SEGA sues Gearbox, but I also hope that is a wakeup call for the gaming press. We've seen numerous articles now about the false advertising of the game, let's see this have consequence on the future dealings Gearbox and Pitchford have within the gaming industry. I want to see websites like IGN and Gamespot refuse to print previews for Gearbox games.
Let this be an end of 'bullshots' and have the gaming press develop a backbone. No more embargos too.
Not gonna happen. Those same websites will be sucking his dick over Borderlands 3 in a year or so, knowing that if they don't bend over they won't get any exclusive interviews, early previews etc. etc. So many Gearbox fanboys/Borederlands sheep will buy their next game no matter what because "yay Borderlands/BIA" that this will ultimately have little to no impact whatsoever on Gearbox or the industry as a whole.
Just look at this time, when people were never going to trust them after DNF.
Unless I completely missed understood what you wrote, people should be excited as hell for Borderlands 3, if they were fans of 1 and 2. Calling them sheep for buying a gearbox game, because of what happened to ACM, who a lot probably won't play, is kind of silly.
I'm calling them sheep for following a bad developer that f**ks up 1 in every three games they release, and of those released only one could be called 'great', and that is debatable (Borderlands 2 is their only game with an average rating of 90+). Lets have a look at the FPS games they've developed (because comparing other games quality to a fps in useless in the discussion of A:CM) and disregard games they've only ported such as Halo PC (because they didn't actually make said games). (all scores taken from metacritic for PC, console shooters are a whole different kettle of fish)
Opposing Force - Mid 80's
Blue Shift - mid 60's
007 Nightfire - mid to high 50's
BIA - mid 80's
BIA-EIB - low 80's
BIA-HH - low 70's, with an accompanying pre-release preview demo that had close to 0 gameplay from the final version, around three months before release.
Borderlands 1+2, notorious for their DLC skimming, highly rated for their MP coop, two of the worst single player shooters ever. Generally received favourably, personally I hate them, but enough people rate them highly for them to be seen as good. Borderlands sits in the low to mid 80's and Borderlands 2 sits on 90 exactly.
DNF - low to mid 40's, with the excuse they did next to no work on the game despite having it for at least a year (some sites have reported two years) before release.
A:CM - low to mid 40's, with an accompanying pre-release preview demo that had close to 0 gameplay from the final version, still being shown as of october 2012, around three months before release. Screenshots of which, are still on the Steam Store page!
What we can see is four games in the 80's, good but not great. One game bang on 90, the borderline between good and great. Two games in the sixties/seventies which comes up as average but flawed. Three games in the 40's/50's (coincidently two being their last releases). That's an exact split of 5 good 5 bad games, two of them known as the f**king worst FPS games to have been released in the last decade at least, if not the worst since Daikatana.
Pre-ordering on a 50% chance to get a good game, with a 10% chance of getting a great game? Yes, anyone who does that is a sheep.
Also: Borderlands 1 and 2 were f**king shite.
I...Are you seriously calling games with 80's only good? Come on, man. Come on. Nightfire and BlueShift are really the only games backing up your cause, except for DNF, which was f**ked from the start, and ACM, I'll give you that one.
Also, I was only talking about Borderlands 3.
Yes, 80's are only 'good'. Since when is good a bad thing?
50-59 is barely above average, 60-69 is good but significant flaws, 70-79 is good but flawed, 80-89 is good, 90+ is great.
I don't f**king understand why so many people seem to think getting a game that is 80+ means they're great or must buys. They're not, they're solid titles, good titles even, but that doesn't make them great. Even PCGamer follows the same system, where anything up to an 85% is labelled as "Good", with 85-89% as excellent and 90+ exceptional. Even following that logic Gearbox have only had one game, ever, rate above good. PCGamer are generally looked down on for being over kind to many games as well, like the DA2 debacle.
Perhaps saying 5 good games and 5 bad games was over exaggerating. It should really read 5 bad games, 4 good games and 1 great game. That still makes them a hit and miss developer.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthecontrolleronline.com%2Fwp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2FAliens-Colonial-Marines-Extended-Cut.jpg&hash=4c304537193c66ab8f84c37a5c09a1584e4dc9aa)
Quote
Last week, a supposed Gearbox developer responded to fan backlash regarding the poorly received Aliens: Colonial Marines. That alleged dev claimed via Reddit that Gearbox shifted focus to the successful Borderlands, stunting Aliens: Colonial Marines' development in the process. Today, a new mystery source's testimony echoes previous reports, while adding new insight to the game's messy creation.
Destructoid's anonymous source, who claims to have worked on the game between 2007 and 2008, says Gearbox pulled team members off Aliens: Colonial Marines to have them work on the first Borderlands. He or she also says Sega nearly canceled development on Aliens: Colonial Marines sometime in 2008 after catching onto Gearbox's supposed misappropriation of studio resources. The source also says Gearbox continued collecting payment for work on Aliens: Colonial Marines and lied about the number of team members working on the game.
We've reached out to Sega and Gearbox for comment on the anonymous sources. Sega says the company "...won't be commenting on this topic at the moment." We've also contacted the Destructoid editor to clarify whether this is a different developer than the one from the aforementioned Reddit post. Keep in mind this is all hearsay from one side of the story at this point. We'll keep you updated as more develops.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/02/19/report-anonymous-aliens-colonial-marines-dev-says-gearbox-misappropriated-resources.aspx
This pretty much guarantee's I will never buy another Gearbox game again.
A supposed developer and a discreet 'source', is still rumour, speculation and hypothesis until we get something concrete.
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 20, 2013, 02:26:17 PM
A supposed developer and a discreet 'source', is still rumour, speculation and hypothesis until we get something concrete.
Oh come on... Everybody loves a little gossip. :P
Quote from: XenoMAC on Feb 20, 2013, 02:50:09 PM
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 20, 2013, 02:26:17 PM
A supposed developer and a discreet 'source', is still rumour, speculation and hypothesis until we get something concrete.
Oh come on... Everybody loves a little gossip. :P
Most people do yes, but currently all it does is propagate bad feeling against a developer without us knowing all of the facts. Gearbox deserve to get bent over a f**ked silly by the fans, after all the available data is out in the open and we can categorically state
exactly what they did or did not do.Currently they are guilty of overseeing a bad game, but we cannot yet all agree on exactly which bits of it they are responsible for making. We might never get the real facts (most likely) and it'll forever be remember as a group effort that failed spectacularly.
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 20, 2013, 02:54:01 PM
Quote from: XenoMAC on Feb 20, 2013, 02:50:09 PM
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 20, 2013, 02:26:17 PM
A supposed developer and a discreet 'source', is still rumour, speculation and hypothesis until we get something concrete.
Oh come on... Everybody loves a little gossip. :P
Most people do yes, but currently all it does is propagate bad feeling against a developer without us knowing all of the facts. Gearbox deserve to get bent over a f**ked silly by the fans, after all the available data is out in the open and we can categorically state exactly what they did or did not do.
Currently they are guilty of overseeing a bad game, but we cannot yet all agree on exactly which bits of it they are responsible for making. We might never get the real facts (most likely) and it'll forever be remember as a group effort that failed spectacularly.
INDEED(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.digstudent.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F11%2Fmovember-moustache.jpg&hash=38831efa7892cbb14564ed97b61b23c319fa8615)
Where did you get that picture of me? :o
You've been spying on my sexy. :D
What a cluster. This is such a disaster it's hilarious.
Ok so Ive gathered as much info as i can and compiled all the info and rumors into 1 short video on youtube and thrown in some personal opinions as well
Any feedback given would be awesome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEDKzXSw6w0#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEDKzXSw6w0#ws)
Video Features
Multiplayer Gameplay
Development Outsourcing
Employee Reddit Posts
Red Ring Engine Failure
Missing Campaign and Story Elements
Gorman and Weirzbowski Character Removal
Sega Threats to Gearbox
Reasons for the games Bugs
Personal Opinions
Welcome To Recoils Rumor Mill
Hope you all enjoy the vid
As previously said here: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=47114.msg1613115#msg1613115 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=47114.msg1613115#msg1613115)
http://www.destructoid.com/timegate-resumes-show-a-lot-of-colonial-marines-work-246223.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/timegate-resumes-show-a-lot-of-colonial-marines-work-246223.phtml)
Quote from: Recoil1986 on Feb 20, 2013, 10:01:47 PM
Ok so Ive gathered as much info as i can and compiled all the info and rumors into 1 short video on youtube and thrown in some personal opinions as well
Any feedback given would be awesome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEDKzXSw6w0#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEDKzXSw6w0#ws)
Video Features
Multiplayer Gameplay
Development Outsourcing
Employee Reddit Posts
Red Ring Engine Failure
Missing Campaign and Story Elements
Gorman and Weirzbowski Character Removal
Sega Threats to Gearbox
Reasons for the games Bugs
Personal Opinions
Welcome To Recoils Rumor Mill
Hope you all enjoy the vid
Ok, so, I am writing this as I am hearing your input, and first of all, it is quite clear from the final ACM game, that most of the money is not there! Also, outsourcing means you get the work done for far less money! Also, Gearbox's DUTY is to respect the contract they established BEFORE the ones signed with 2K Games! Also, it is rumored as well that SEGA was about to cancel ACM because Gearbox was lying to them about the real amount of money they were spending! So, Gearbox is showing itself as a hack company which SEGA should NEVER have hired! Not because of the end product, which is a disaster, but ever since the first problems started to show! gearbox has shown nothing BUT total derelict of duty, compete disregard for the game and completely false, intentionally dishonest marketing! They mainly lied to the fans and potential buyers with a fake GAMEPLAY demo, which had the same levels in it, but technologically and dialogue-wise, was far superior to what we end up having in the final product!
Also, regarding the multiplayer or co-op you had, why pay 60 euros for a bunch of maps and no AI required, nor story, nor characterization whatsoever?! Sorry, but the multiplayer bravado is the lamest excuse to save a game which was desired MOSTLY for the SP campaign! I don't care one bit for multiplayer, which ANY fan can do (take Gamebanana CSS maps, for instance) and be done about it...! Multiplayer is all about map design and bot pathfinding, collision damage and little more! you don't need to a lot in MP modes, only the basic animation, which was already done in the SP campaign, so NO, the MP never saves a game to me, only the lasting effect of it! And Inever buy a game for the MP, because it is not worth spending 50, 60 euros to play online! That is preposterous!
So, I think you have your take on thiings, which, of course, I respect, but I have to say I disagree with you on most counts!
Cheers!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthecontrolleronline.com%2Fwp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2FAliens-Colonial-Marines-Extended-Cut.jpg&hash=4c304537193c66ab8f84c37a5c09a1584e4dc9aa)
WTF!! What the f**k happened to that game? It doesnt even look like the same game. Screenshots like this got me really excited for the game when it was in development. 16XAA aside on the picture. Im sure they could of achieived this on current hardware.
Think about it. AVP2010 had a 16 million budget? And Rebellion created an "Average shooter" But a decent Aliens game for such a small budget. (I like AVP2010 alot fyi)
65 million budget for Aliens CM gave us a sub-par game, filled with bugs, (No pun intended) glitches, and horrible design choices. And a sub-par aliens game. I think Rebellion did a good job for the small budget, give them a bigger budget and more development time and im sure they could give us a good game. I mean, they even gave us a multiplayer demo, and that sold me instantly on buying the game.
That first level on AVP2010 is scary lol, you're only given a pistol and you get alot of fake readings on your motion tracker, you crank that game up on hard mode and the xenos are scary :P plus they have decent AI, they will try to avoid your flashlight and they actually jump around alot.
What do the Xenos do in A:CM? Run at you without no effort at all.
And Rebellion didn't hide anything with the game, even the screenshots looked like the game we got or give us a fake trailer. Thats why i knew what i was getting when i bought the full game and im happy. Any developer that takes gamers as being stupid kids i refuse to support.
Quote from: Guts on Feb 21, 2013, 09:14:43 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthecontrolleronline.com%2Fwp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2FAliens-Colonial-Marines-Extended-Cut.jpg&hash=4c304537193c66ab8f84c37a5c09a1584e4dc9aa)
You realize that's not a screenshot right? It looks pretty bad regardless.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Feb 21, 2013, 10:02:36 PM
Quote from: Guts on Feb 21, 2013, 09:14:43 PM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthecontrolleronline.com%2Fwp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F02%2FAliens-Colonial-Marines-Extended-Cut.jpg&hash=4c304537193c66ab8f84c37a5c09a1584e4dc9aa)
You realize that's not a screenshot right? It looks pretty bad regardless.
That one render had more potential and atmosphere than the whole game released though, I'm sure that was the point.
I guess, but this what I wanted the game to look like:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen13.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen11.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen04.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen15.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen05.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen02.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen06.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen08.jpg)
Looked pretty good all the way back in 2008. :-\
The game never looked that way at any point. Every single one of those is a pre render, even Crysis doesn't look that good running benchmark on a Titan.
I don't know what Crysis you've been playing but mine looked way better than those screenshots, even if they were pre-rendered.
Hi guys
Pre-rendered or not, there are engines that can get that lighting, shading, light sources, etc... The U3 engine was more than capable to achieve it... hell, they could have mixed the FEAR engine and the DOOM 3 engine and spawn far better graphics than this ACM game!
Fact is that they had the tools, but not their heart in the right place! Once they signed the contract, gearbox had 3 years to do it...I even accept that in 2006, the engines were still like SOURCE, CRYENGINE 1 and Id's DOOM3 engines, but for cripes sake... to get this as a result, I would prefer a cross between FEAR and DOOM3 and be done with it...!
Any news regarding a possible lawsuit against Crapbox?
Red Ring is capable of producing that. Red Ring is not capable of producing that on current gen consoles.
It's not just the high quality of the visuals in those screenshots though, it's the atmosphere and feel of them that's different to the final game. The implication of immersive co-op play, the possibility of being in vents or ducts above the corridors, rooms of facehuggers, the fear that comes with watching multiple blips on the tracker as a buddy marine welds a door. I get more feeling out of these pre-rendered stills than I do when playing the game.
Of course, that's the point of these bullshots. To instill strong enough emotions to make us want to get the game as soon as humanly possible.
And no, I don't buy that current generation consoles are unable to produce the same sort of quality of lighting and textures. That's a poor excuse.
Quote from: redxavier on Feb 21, 2013, 11:11:33 PM
And no, I don't buy that current generation consoles are unable to produce the same sort of quality of lighting and textures. That's a poor excuse.
I agree with you... A particle system for fogs, weather FX, shaders, etc, are quite capable of being done by current top game engines... I have always thought that the reason most games never match the demo videos of these engines is devs« lazyness, pure and simple! One example: STALKER! The richness and diversity of textures in that game engine is what makes the world so believable!The excess of specular lighting is one of the things that bothered me in games ever since Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory! Wet surfaces are suppposed to look wet, but not everything! And basically, what bothered me most in ACM was the outdoors ground textures! Also, if you compare AVP2 2010 with ACM, another quite obvious problem rise immediately: the size of things on the screen, even at 1080p, in my case! The size of characters, objects, corridors, etc,looked more like a 3rd person POV to me than an FP one! IT is almost like they used third-person perspective with a first person gun in it! I have seen this in other games, but it was most noticeable to me in this one!
Quote from: Cal427eb on Feb 21, 2013, 10:13:48 PM
I guess, but this what I wanted the game to look like:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen13.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen11.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen04.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen15.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen05.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen02.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen06.jpg)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/screenshots/normal_alienscmscreen08.jpg)
Looked pretty good all the way back in 2008. :-\
Yeah, back in 2008 i was so hyped. No hud style gameplay, instead your hud is on the guns and stuff. That would of been epic. I would of loved free roaming gameplay around LV-426, random spawns for Xenos, suvival, all went into trash for a basic FPS where you run and gun Xeno swarms and humans.
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 21, 2013, 10:28:49 PM
Hi guys
Pre-rendered or not, there are engines that can get that lighting, shading, light sources, etc... The U3 engine was more than capable to achieve it... hell, they could have mixed the FEAR engine and the DOOM 3 engine and spawn far better graphics than this ACM game!
Fact is that they had the tools, but not their heart in the right place! Once they signed the contract, gearbox had 3 years to do it...I even accept that in 2006, the engines were still like SOURCE, CRYENGINE 1 and Id's DOOM3 engines, but for cripes sake... to get this as a result, I would prefer a cross between FEAR and DOOM3 and be done with it...!
Any news regarding a possible lawsuit against Crapbox?
What developers do with engines is completely up to them with how they code and optimize it.
Even doom III which came out in 2004 with a few minor mods on it looks better than A:CM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abload.de%2Fimg%2Fdoom3_2012_05_20_21_0xkumk.png&hash=834da25dcf87d5f5c6d704affd0b2c02c69fcae1)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets2.ignimgs.com%2F2013%2F02%2F11%2F2013-02-0200047jpg-a9d3bc_610w.jpg&hash=27c1795d7a1ad3bd149e1babb2171d7df37d0f04)
QuoteEven doom III which came out in 2004 with a few minor mods on it looks better than A:CM
Did this a year after launch:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16768161/DeadMansLift.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16768161/DeimosvsPhobos.jpg)
Quote from: Xhan on Feb 22, 2013, 06:33:23 AM
QuoteEven doom III which came out in 2004 with a few minor mods on it looks better than A:CM
Did this a year after launch:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16768161/DeadMansLift.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16768161/DeimosvsPhobos.jpg)
That is what I am saying, TOO MUCH specular lighting! It looks like you hosed the entire set with water! That is my main boggle with today's graphics, they use and abuse the specular lighting!
Some more information, basically just confirming most of the stuff that is out already. The story just never dies it seems!
http://segaawakens.blogspot.nl/2013/02/that-eventual-aliens-colonial-marines.html (http://segaawakens.blogspot.nl/2013/02/that-eventual-aliens-colonial-marines.html)
http://www.destructoid.com/gearbox-embezzled-aliens-colonial-marines-money-246558.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/gearbox-embezzled-aliens-colonial-marines-money-246558.phtml)
"Whoever wins, we lose."
Interesting stuff.
Considering all the rumours which have sprung up, I'm now more surprised that bad news wasn't leaking on a frequent basis about this project, while still in development for all those years.
This article is very intriguing even though nothing has been officially confirmed by the three parties involved Sega, GBX and Timegate.
http://www.destructoid.com/gearbox-embezzled-aliens-colonial-marines-money-246558.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/gearbox-embezzled-aliens-colonial-marines-money-246558.phtml)
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 24, 2013, 07:46:11 PM
Interesting stuff.
Considering all the rumours which have sprung up, I'm now more surprised that bad news wasn't leaking on a frequent basis about this project, while still in development for all those years.
At least they managed to keep us in the dark for quite some time, we have to give them credit for that. :laugh: >:(
Quote from: Gren_86 on Feb 25, 2013, 02:19:09 AM
This article is very intriguing even though nothing has been officially confirmed by the three parties involved Sega, GBX and Timegate.
http://www.destructoid.com/gearbox-embezzled-aliens-colonial-marines-money-246558.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/gearbox-embezzled-aliens-colonial-marines-money-246558.phtml)
At this point, there's no believing anything, 'cuz Sega won't give two craps to sue Randy Bitchfraud and Gearbox. The money does the talking for them.
Quote from: VonPelz on Feb 24, 2013, 07:23:31 PM
Some more information, basically just confirming most of the stuff that is out already. The story just never dies it seems!
http://segaawakens.blogspot.nl/2013/02/that-eventual-aliens-colonial-marines.html (http://segaawakens.blogspot.nl/2013/02/that-eventual-aliens-colonial-marines.html)
http://www.destructoid.com/gearbox-embezzled-aliens-colonial-marines-money-246558.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/gearbox-embezzled-aliens-colonial-marines-money-246558.phtml)
Sorry, but part of that is pure bullshit.
SEGA knew the game was shit in November of last year and still demanded it ship in the current window, and SEGA was the one the rescinded the cancellation order themselves. this was a known thing then; it's not remotely surprise.
The current regime of SEGA
never wanted the license in the first place, fired the guy that bought it.
Gearbox also didn't just sit on their ass. Yes, they absolutely 100% f**ked up and f**ked up in so many ways, but work on the game was active all the way up to cert.
Timgate also made some horrendous product and kept a straight face when they shipped it back to gbx as is.
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 22, 2013, 03:46:26 PM
Quote from: Xhan on Feb 22, 2013, 06:33:23 AM
QuoteEven doom III which came out in 2004 with a few minor mods on it looks better than A:CM
Did this a year after launch:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16768161/DeadMansLift.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16768161/DeimosvsPhobos.jpg)
That is what I am saying, TOO MUCH specular lighting! It looks like you hosed the entire set with water! That is my main boggle with today's graphics, they use and abuse the specular lighting!
Has nothing to do with the specular highlights and everything to do with hell being slimey.
Xhan, who is more to blame, the guys that outsourced (crime nº 1 in my book - if they didn't want to do it, they shouldn't have signed the contract with SEGA in the first place!) and second, TimeGate did the best they could with such a giant endeavour ldropped on their almost novice laps! This is not TimeGate's fault at all! Gearbox had the DUTY to oversee the progress by TG, in the first place! They did a pisspoor job at that! SEGA, well, they had AVP a couple of years back, so that comment makes no sense to me! They did an arguably good job, with Rebellion, and ACM looked incredibly promising in the 2011 demo! So, maybe SEGA wanted it back in because Gearbox made some more empty promises! It is quite obvious that Gearbox has a lot of explaining to do, especially where all the SEGA money went! IT is clear that oursourcing the game made them save a few million, so SEGA,if they were smart, they protected themselves from any INTENTIONAL wrongdoings from a company whose rep is damaged beyond repair! NO credible company will give them money in advance now without heavy scrutiny from them during pre-prod, prod and post-prod...!
Gearbox is already burned with the news and accusations, and I think Sega employees have the right to be outraged, because it is true, their money was diverted for unscrupulous one-sided agendas by Gearbox! And 2K should come clean about how much money did they give Gearbox to do B1!
Quote from: Xhan on Feb 25, 2013, 05:30:02 AM
Has nothing to do with the specular highlights and everything to do with hell being slimey.
You missed my point... Look at the games at the time and post_SPLINTER CELL - CHAOS THEORY...! The specular lighting is everywhere! Even in surfaces like clothes and skin that isn't supposed to be THAT shiny! And Hell is not supposed to be slimey at all! OR have human-like structures, for that matter! I can understand some iron structures to shine, but rocks, clothing and skin shinning the way they do NOW, that is my concern! Only wet surfaces or metallic structures are supposed to shine like that! And I misspoke, it doesn't look like you hosed it down with water, but rather OIL! I don't know how people aren't constantly slippering on the floor, in games! HAHAHAH I don't know if that is a problem of the graphic cards, but they need to stop that! I can get specular lighting in the HIve, and Aliens, and so on...! But if you saw the ALine movies, you know people's skin can shine with sweat, but not the armor! Or weapons! We all know the weapons have a coating that prevent them from shining and giving away the shooter's positio!
http://kotaku.com/5986694/from-dream-to-disaster-the-story-of-aliens-colonial-marines (http://kotaku.com/5986694/from-dream-to-disaster-the-story-of-aliens-colonial-marines)
The lack of anyone knowing what the final story was and constant rewrites is gradually confirming my suspicion that this was the 'Alien 3' of the series' computer game era... Which has a certain measure of karmic irony, considering what some involved on the project said about that film.
Regardless, without saying too much, this appears to correlate with some of what my own source has been saying. I'm still attempting to verify which of the companies they were directly involved with, but it's looking like Gearbox. They informed me that a lot of headaches were involved with trying to fix all the various problems which kept cropping up, for the same reason as Xhan has been alluding to: Fixing one thing made several completely different other things fail and compounding the issue, because of all the different coding mess, every time something was tried.
Which, ultimately, does not bode well for future patching attempts...
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 25, 2013, 10:11:48 PM
Fixing one thing made several completely different other things fail and compounding the issue, because of all the different coding mess, every time something was tried.
You just described game development in its entirety. I've been QA testing for games for a while now and unfortunately this case with most games. Some games are less broken than others but it happens constantly. Whether the powers that be are willing to spend more time/money or have the will to fix these things is an entirely different matter.
Quote from: ikarop on Feb 25, 2013, 10:44:50 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 25, 2013, 10:11:48 PM
Fixing one thing made several completely different other things fail and compounding the issue, because of all the different coding mess, every time something was tried.
You just described game development in its entirety. I've been QA testing for games for a while now and unfortunately this case with most games. Some games are less broken than others but it happens constantly. Whether the powers that be are willing to spend more time/money or have the will to fix these things is an entirely different matter.
All software development. I've never worked on games, but worked in an office that did backend system coding. Just having one programmer off for a day could snarl up the whole office, and out projects were nowhere near as big as this.
Extensively, though. If this person is to be believed, it was meant to have been a lot more extreme than on other projects.
It was more extreme than most.
And yes the onus of failure is highest on GBX both subjectively and objectively.
GBX made the decision to change the entire feel of the game from action-tactical control and GBX came up with the ridiculous story along with the two BSG writers who helped Neumann codify his fangasm premise into what we see now. GBX also failed to get Red Ring properly implemented across all platforms within alloted specs.
TG also made, as we see, spectacularly mediocre content. Look at a video of section8 gameplay and then look at A:CM which is supposed to be the greatest licensed game ever made. Weapons and anims are pretty familiar, no? They're also not up to AAA quality by any stretch of the imagination, and neither are any of the levels.
SEGA knew full well what they were getting, on several versions, so the innocent SEGA angle is also a lie. Though in fairness they were expecting at the end what we were expecting, they just knew it would suck a lot earlier. SEGA didn't even want the damned license to begin with, so them funneling what they did into it is rather surprising.
Quote from: Xhan on Feb 26, 2013, 12:52:58 AMSEGA didn't even want the damned license to begin with, so them funneling what they did into it is rather surprising.
Are you referring to when they previously wanted to cancel A:CM or was Sega really against obtaining the Alien license in the first place?
Sega is certainly to blame for a few reasons, mainly for not keeping on top of Gearbox and then meddling with the game's aesthetics.
With much of the story still unheard I do wonder if Sega had a bigger part in this. Just looking at their track record over the past decade shows that they've mismanaged a lot of projects, including their own IPs.
It just seems strange to me, and I have no doubt it's due partially to my own gullibility and partial ignorance of the situation, that Gearbox would push production of ALIENS, a billion dollar franchise, in favor of a new IP like Borderlands and an almost forgotten IP like Duke Nukem. It just seems like ALIENS would, at the time, be a safe bet for the company if they could pull it off.
GBX does deserve a good portion of the blame, especially if these stories being leaked are true, but part of me knows that a publisher that both meddles too much, and isn't sure what it wants, can completely cripple a game. Mix in a studio like FOX, which apparently has no clue how to direct one if it's more successful franchises and you have a really shitty situation on your hands.
On a side note: I would love to get my hands on the script written by the BSG guys.
The guy that bought the IP to use in the first place was fired later Newbs, and him buying Aliens was one of the reasons he was fired. So as a company, no they really didn't want it, and yeah SoA/E's track record is pretty horrendous over the last twenty years, ESPECIALLY concerning licensed products.
As for the second canceling, you were on the forums when Sharky reported SEGA wanted to cancel the project due to gross mismanagement.
Quote from: Xhan on Feb 26, 2013, 03:55:59 AM
The guy that bought the IP to use in the first place was fired later Newbs, and him buying Aliens was one of the reasons he was fired. So as a company, no they really didn't want it, and yeah SoA/E's track record is pretty horrendous over the last twenty years, ESPECIALLY concerning licensed products.
As for the second canceling, you were on the forums when Sharky reported SEGA wanted to cancel the project due to gross mismanagement.
Xhan, I am sorry, but your 'SEGA didn't want the license in the first place' is bollux to me...! Frst of all, why make three games then?! not one, not two, THREE (for now)! Also, the ALIENS franchise is an automatic gold mine, assuming they do a relatively OK job with it... Even a regular game like AVP, not formidable but not sucky-sucky, gave them some good money! It has it's fanbase! SO, why would they hire Rebellion, the creator of the acclaimed first AVP game?! Why would they invest SO MUCH money in it and keep postponing it and therefore losing even more money?! Why?!
SO, I am not buying that at all, Xhan! NOw, I am buying the whole 'SEGA knew it was crap and still they sold it'! Of course they would! I ask you this: after spending all that money, wasting it for 6 YEARS, a timeframe in which you could develop 3 CRYSIS games :o , would you just waste all that money and time and resources for nothing, shelving the game yeat again or wasting two more years perfecting what they knew was a turd regardless...?! NO, I don't think so! They cut their losses (they should have done it earlier, the first time around, and after year 3, Sega should have just sacked Gearbox ( I am sure the contract had a deadline for producing the game) I mean, a CRYSIS game takes about 2 years to develop, so after year 3, it would be clear to me that Gearbox had more than they could chew, and ought to have been sacked on the spot! TimeGate was the patsy for Gearbox to put blame in, but they knew that outsourcing it was a bad idea, far worse when you outsource to newbies such an important AAA game! SEGA's only fault was a) hiring Gearbox in the first place; b) letting Gearbox geta away with it by year 3; c) not pulling the plug definitively the first time around... I am sure us, fans, would wait as long as we could (we had an AVP game in between to at least appease our lust for our fave monsters... And in 2009, hire a full-proof dev like Crytek, Ubisoft Montreal or any other AAA-level dev, to deliver an ALIENS sequel in game form worthy of the movie... So, by 2011, just one year after we got the AVP game, we would have had a great game, especially since it was going to be canon in the Alien franchise, wich means, more reason to have a AAA dev company at the helm of this project... Rebellion could have done it... I think that AVP failed story-wise because they had to make three stories intertwine, and that is always tricky and messy... WIth only one storyline to focus on, I am sure Rebellion would have made a great job... Of course, it would mean pushing the Aliens game two more years, which we would have right about the same time we got this piece of crap... UNless Rebellion would hire more people and they would be able to develop BOTH games... but nah, I think they would be holding too many balls in the air by then...
I think MOnolith could also do it in conjonction with Rebellion, for instance... Monolith would take care of the story and Rebellion would take care of making sure the story was playable and enjoyable... I mean, what has MOnolith been doing lately? For those who just tuned in, Monolith was the developer of AVP 2...
So, there ya go, Xhan... SEGA just made poor choices and was naive to believe Gearbox wasn't just shining her out of her money... I am sure SEGA is going to, either sue Gearbox or, better yet, make sure no other software house wil ever hire her! Hehehe I would love that... 8)
They were legally contracted for three games, and the BoD whom now hold court over SEGA want nothing to do with the franchise.
That's not a supposition.
Secondly Monolith did the same thing Gearbox did and used money and tech developed for AvP2 to finance NOLF2, that's also not supposition.
Monolith isn't even around anymore except as a tech and tool house for Warner Brothers Games.
Quote from: Xhan on Feb 26, 2013, 07:08:46 AM
They were legally contracted for three games, and the BoD whom now hold court over SEGA want nothing to do with the franchise.
That's not a supposition.
Secondly Monolith did the samr thing Gearbox did and used money and tech developed for AvP2 to finance NOLF2, that's also not supposition.
Monolith isn't even around anymore except as a tech and tool house for Warner Brothers Games.
Xhan, BoD? Who's that?
Actually, I wouldn't blame SEGA or any other company not wanting to have anything to do with ALIENS... This franchise has become a curse to anyone who touched it! FOX made a mess of it, so did the devs, the publishers...! So, if they were indeed obligated to do just 3 games and if they are just wanting to get rid of it, I doubt the next Alien game will be any good as well! That is actually no good prognosis, if you're correct there, Xhan!
Regarding Monolith, this is actually good news... I just wrote on another thread that FOX should just sell the Alien rights altogether to Warner or any other movie company! :laugh:
Board of Directors, homie, jeeze! :laugh:
Xhan.. are you telling us that AvP 2 could've been better than it already was? That what you're saying?
The Aliens curse, man. IT'S A CURSE I TELL YOU!
Aliens make corporations turn evil.
that's pretty meta.
http://pixelsmashers.com/wordpress/?p=18167 (http://pixelsmashers.com/wordpress/?p=18167) :laugh:
Yeah, I REEEEEEEALLLY believe they will come clean and tell us EXACTLY WTF happened...! ::)
About the patches, if there is ever any relevant one, that is, I doubt it very much! This truly required an 8GB patch, AKA another game entirely! If they are willing to do that, and with the feedback they have had by now, I am sure they would do something more substantial than what came to pass! But of course, that won't be happening... SO yeah, an apology will not redeem their derelict posture at all! And they waited what, A WHOLE MONTH to issue a statement of apology... Uau! That amounts for what in GEARBOX YEARS?! HAHAHA
my favorite part, the damage control.
An apology would blow my skirt up, and I would scurry back to the multiplayer with my belly full of butterflies, giggling like a little girl.
But seriously, hope it's true. It also means they can maybe bring back some of the players with patches, strong DLC, and a few good months support.
Wait, ... wait I think I'm insane. :laugh:
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 26, 2013, 04:24:26 PM
Board of Directors, homie, jeeze! :laugh:
Xhan.. are you telling us that AvP 2 could've been better than it already was? That what you're saying?
The Aliens curse, man. IT'S A CURSE I TELL YOU!
Hey, I know CEO, CFO, COO... GImme a break, that's a lot of acronyms to memorise! :P Never heard that one before... Like I say, ask and you're ignorant no more! :D
I know you were asking Xhan, but I will tell you this much: make AvP2 with AVP 2010 graphics, and I am game! Just that, mod it the hell out, gimme that game in full cosmetic redo, and I will buy it instantly! I loved the game, but it is dated now... It is hard for me to go back, having seen CRYSIS HEAVEN OF GRAPHICS and go back to that polygonal crappy graphics! With Crysis or AVP 2010 graphics, I would give AVP2 a go again! Hear that, MOD wizzards?! :laugh:
I can't remember much from AVP2, or at least I get confused between the two of them, but AVP1... I would so love to play an updated version of it. I still remember the beginning fondly, first time I'ver ever been so scared playing a game. There's a video floating around where someone remade it using the CryEngine and it looks pretty good. Probably got Fox'ed though as they say.
Quote from: redxavier on Feb 26, 2013, 06:48:19 PM
I can't remember much from AVP2, or at least I get confused between the two of them, but AVP1... I would so love to play an updated version of it. I still remember the beginning fondly, first time I'ver ever been so scared playing a game. There's a video floating around where someone remade it using the CryEngine and it looks pretty good. Probably got Fox'ed though as they say.
The first game could be fun to play (but as I've said elsewhere, had an unfortunate effect of not conveying a sense of traction if you were an Alien, because it was like gliding along on butter), yet had virtually
zero story. You were effectively just playing through set-pieces.
Second one had a weirdly convoluted story.
I wouldn't want to see either of them updated, but there's no reason someone couldn't make up something new with the tools presently available.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 26, 2013, 04:24:26 PM
Board of Directors, homie, jeeze! :laugh:
Xhan.. are you telling us that AvP 2 could've been better than it already was? That what you're saying?
The Aliens curse, man. IT'S A CURSE I TELL YOU!
Actually, much like Gearbox, they had press conferences on how awesome AvP2 was going to be and even took swipes at Rebellion while doing it. We got about half the game they promised.
Aliens grabbing and carrying people in both SP and MP
Best lag compensation model then available (HA)
Multispecies versus game modes
in game clan coloring and tag support
The reason the story doesn't make much sense is about 35% of it is missing.
-Android organ replacement facility
-Rykov's backstory was supposed to actually be a Pred mission
-Boss sequence puzzle fights for every race turned into spam the giant health bar fests
-Eisenberg's backstory was turned into a bunch of post it notes
-Most main actors had to double duty on voices after "project re-evaluation" aka sending everyone over to the NOLF2 section
- Other Marine squads on the ship literally handwaved into existence and then killed off, mostly in cutscenes that were supposed to be full levels
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 26, 2013, 07:05:34 PM
The first game could be fun to play (but as I've said elsewhere, had an unfortunate effect of not conveying a sense of traction if you were an Alien, because it was like gliding along on butter), yet had virtually zero story. You were effectively just playing through set-pieces.
Ah, that's the one with Fury 161 and Gateway Station right? I enjoyed those. I remember spending hours just console spawning various creatures and watching the chaos unfold. I don't remember any sort of story and and wikipedia page doesn't seem to indicate any!
Shame that you couldn't get away with doing this now. It's clear from the other thread that everyone has their own ideas and no story's going to not have someone roll their eyes. Why do you need a story at all? Just have a series of vignettes, each a self-enclosed story with its own setting, style and characters.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Feb 26, 2013, 07:05:34 PM
yet had virtually zero story. You were effectively just playing through set-pieces.
I actually thought the Marine story was pretty funny in a macabre way:
You wake up alone on the worst planet in the galaxy and it turns out you've been left behind because you slept in or something. And there's plenty of aliens around to keep you company. Oh and a rescue team is on their wa- actually scratch that. They're all dead. Looks like you'll have to rescue yourself. Now the process involves going through huge empty colonies; dark atmosphere processors and derelict ships but finally! Finally! you are rescued!
Oh wait no. The orbital platform we took you to is infested too, and there's predators to boot as well! And some weird robot alien hybrid... Good thing you can't get back in that dropship that took you there in the first place. Never fear, there's an escape pod not too far away! A USCM ship is nearby and you'll be playing knife games with their android in no time!
Now welcome to the Tyrargo! SURPRISE MORE ALIENS FOR SOME REASON! And Predators. And Predaliens. We're still going to get you out of this! Actually, no wait. We're not. The company has decided that you can go screw yourself. Goodbye.
Just kidding! I'm opening these doors for ten seconds. Go through it or be forever locked in this room with the sentry guns we didn't bother putting on when you could've used their help to kill the predator and predalien. Good thing you managed to fight through those praetorians too! Now there's a dropship waiting for you in the hanger!
HAHA Just kidding again! It's an alien Queen!
Defeated her? Good! I guess you can starve to death, or wait until the aliens get you too. Whichever comes first.
I forgot just how nonsensical that first game was! :laugh:
Most bizarre thing about it was the inclusion of the 'xenoborgs', who were just really slow walking platforms for giant lasers. I remember playing through it and being confused about why they'd been manufactured, because they didn't bother to even so much as pounce or anything.
And, wow... Never knew the second one got butchered that ferociously. :o The strangeness of it kind of makes more sense now.
I remember getting the feeling that Rykov's mission was going to unfold in a flashback mission, actually.
Quote from: Xhan on Feb 26, 2013, 07:32:09 PM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 26, 2013, 04:24:26 PM
Board of Directors, homie, jeeze! :laugh:
Xhan.. are you telling us that AvP 2 could've been better than it already was? That what you're saying?
The Aliens curse, man. IT'S A CURSE I TELL YOU!
Actually, much like Gearbox, they had press conferences on how awesome AvP2 was going to be and even took swipes at Rebellion while doing it. We got about half the game they promised.
Aliens grabbing and carrying people in both SP and MP
Best lag compensation model then available (HA)
Multispecies versus game modes
in game clan coloring and tag support
The reason the story doesn't make much sense is about 35% of it is missing.
-Android organ replacement facility
-Rykov's backstory was supposed to actually be a Pred mission
-Boss sequence puzzle fights for every race turned into spam the giant health bar fests
-Eisenberg's backstory was turned into a bunch of post it notes
-Most main actors had to double duty on voices after "project re-evaluation" aka sending everyone over to the NOLF2 section
- Other Marine squads on the ship literally handwaved into existence and then killed off, mostly in cutscenes that were supposed to be full levels
Gosh, didn't realize all of that was true. Game is still one of my all time favorites though :P
I remember replaying it not too long ago, and I really couldn't tell you anything that involves the story. Just as forgettable as the one we got I suppose, though I do know I enjoyed the way the campaigns overlapped at points.
You cats must really not pay attention to the story in games. :-\ AvP 2 had a great one. They were able to somehow obtain flight telemetry on the Derelict and trace it back to a planet where they found a ruined civilization. This is where the observation pods and hab complex are set up, with security by Rykov and his Iron Bears, and this is where the Marines and Predators end up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_versus_Predator_2#Story_2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_versus_Predator_2#Story_2)
Wiki is your friend.
Story was light years ahead of this craptastic crap-flavored crap salad, and gave us great movie-like moments without having to force them into an impossible facepalm of a narrative. :laugh: The dark side is flowing through me.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 27, 2013, 12:40:23 AM
You cats must really not pay attention to the story in games. :-\ AvP 2 had a great one. They were able to somehow obtain flight telemetry on the Derelict and trace it back to a planet where they found a ruined civilization. This is where the observation pods and hab complex are set up, with security by Rykov and his Iron Bears, and this is where the Marines and Predators end up.
It makes me wonder what they could do with that story in this day and age now that Prometheus has shed some light on the engineers. Prometheus certainly wasn't my favorite film but I can't help but think what would've happened if you added in aspects like the black goo to the storyline as well.
OK, who did it? Who got my AVP2 game? I need it back! I need to replay it, although I kinda saw it on Youtube for nostalgia sake, and man, those seriously outdated graphics are a major turn off! :P
At least, the first one had darkness and scary facehuggers... I remember dreading to play that level where you come out of the APC and then you know that at the bottom, you had a barely visible facehugger that almost gave me a heart attack EVERY SINGLE time it jumped at my face! Seriously, I only got to the ending of that game ONCE! I kid you not! Up until this day, that was the only time I ever screamed in a game! HAHAHAH
Well, not quite! Just until I got attacked by the alligators in FAR CRY 3! :-[
Boy, did I jump out of my skin on that one!
In AVP2, they lacked that...the scariness... The hugger was weak, the levels lacked the atmosphere, and the story was pretty boring! I prefer the first one definitely over the second one!
Also, AVP HAD A STORY?!?!? Really?! I thought it was just random levels with just a silly guy on a screen giving us background and missions (actually, just 'pull the lever' and stuff like that)! HAHAHA
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 27, 2013, 12:40:23 AM
You cats must really not pay attention to the story in games. :-\ AvP 2 had a great one.
Aye. The game had a wonderfully realized setting. A real work of love :) The Observation pods and other areas were very well made and i loved the nods to the Nostromo set designs here and there. (The air vents! The dinning areas!) The pda's had tons of info on backgrounds and characters and i loved browsing through them along the way.
Shame about the development process :/
by the way.. there are papercraft models of the AVP2 Alien warrior, runner and egg :)
http://noturnosukhoi.blogspot.pt/2011/12/alien-runner-16.html (http://noturnosukhoi.blogspot.pt/2011/12/alien-runner-16.html)
Quote from: Blacklabel on Feb 27, 2013, 01:39:39 AM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 27, 2013, 12:40:23 AM
You cats must really not pay attention to the story in games. :-\ AvP 2 had a great one.
Aye. The game had a wonderfully realized setting. A real work of love :) The Observation pods and other areas were very well made and i loved the nods to the Nostromo set designs here and there. (The air vents! The dinning areas!) The pda's had tons of info on backgrounds and characters and i loved browsing through them along the way.
Shame about the development process :/
by the way.. there are papercraft models of the AVP2 Alien warrior, runner and egg :)
http://noturnosukhoi.blogspot.pt/2011/12/alien-runner-16.html (http://noturnosukhoi.blogspot.pt/2011/12/alien-runner-16.html)
Aww
cooooooool.Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 27, 2013, 01:37:55 AM
In AVP2, they lacked that...the scariness... The hugger was weak, the levels lacked the atmosphere, and the story was pretty boring! I prefer the first one definitely over the second one!
I think they were scary in both. The ones in AvP 99 were totally evil, with that lightning-speed screaming facehug. I remember the second ones being about as fast too... from parts like the lab where you release them all, or if you ever played a multiplayer match with lifecycle (the moment of true AvP glory) the huggers were very fast and almost impossible to dodge.
I had a very easy time hugging marines in lifecycle mp. ;) I guarantee you some of them jumped lol.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 27, 2013, 01:53:26 AM
I think they were scary in both. The ones in AvP 99 were totally evil, with that lightning-speed screaming facehug. I remember the second ones being about as fast too... from parts like the lab where you release them all, or if you ever played a multiplayer match with lifecycle (the moment of true AvP glory) the huggers were very fast and almost impossible to dodge.
I had a very easy time hugging marines in lifecycle mp. ;) I guarantee you some of them jumped lol.
Actually, I am writing you this on a break from an extensive search after my AVP 1 and AVP 2 CDs and I AM FREAKING OUT! Too bad the multiplayer in AVP2 is no longer active... Or is it? ???
Now, if only there was a MOD who could use a FAR CRY 2 editor or an UNREAL 3 editor to redo the whole game in all its glory! OK, more realistically, just have a MOD to AVP2 that could make the graphics look better and with shaders in them to add sliminess, that would be great! Now, if you'll excuse me, Raging, I must resume 'my very rigid search' for the AVP game classics! See ya in a bit... :laugh:
AvP2 master server patch, by x-M-x dawg. Been posted before but here:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=47578.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=47578.0)
The more players, the better! The mp in that game was sooo much fun. I'm ecstatic to see it still going. The truly great games never die. ;)
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 27, 2013, 02:25:33 AM
AvP2 master server patch, by x-M-x dawg. Been posted before but here:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=47578.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=47578.0)
The more players, the better! The mp in that game was sooo much fun. I'm ecstatic to see it still going. The truly great games never die. ;)
Thanks, Raging... If only I could find the darned CDs... Think... Think... :'(
why don't you just download it
I want the music CD as well for AVP1, chupa! They're together! SHoot... I will do it tomorrow... Find the CDs, I mean! I am too tired now!
In the meantime, I cam across this piece of work! It even made PC GAMER! I don't know if it was posted before, but If it was, I apologise... I am just mind-blown to see my fave AVP game looking like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7m5cRX3q2M#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7m5cRX3q2M#ws)
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/09/aliens-vs-marines-mod-crysis-2/ (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/09/aliens-vs-marines-mod-crysis-2/)
OMG... I want it, I want it! 8)
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 27, 2013, 04:04:23 AM
I want the music CD as well for AVP1, chupa! They're together! SHoot... I will do it tomorrow... Find the CDs, I mean! I am too tired now!
In the meantime, I cam across this piece of work! It even made PC GAMER! I don't know if it was posted before, but If it was, I apologise... I am just mind-blown to see my fave AVP game looking like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7m5cRX3q2M#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7m5cRX3q2M#ws)
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/09/aliens-vs-marines-mod-crysis-2/ (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/09/aliens-vs-marines-mod-crysis-2/)
OMG... I want it, I want it! 8)
That looks amazing.
every day i'm growing more and more worried about that mod ever since i heard about Fox sending him a C&D.
You think they're going to shut it down?
they always do.
i still can't believe Hemi got his AKF through them.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2013, 04:13:57 AM
they always do.
i still can't believe Hemi got his AKF through them.
FOX should be commending him, not admonish him! And by the way, this game should be free by now! Free to be modded!
And FOX sending him a CEASE AND DESIST for a game this old, to a guy who is not even looking to profit from this, is just another demonstration of the pathetic company they are!
I hope he will continue to do it, just for fun! AND if he is as pissed as I am at FOX, he should! That company never ceases to amaze me at how low they can get! A C&D for a game this old, for a guy who is doing this because he wants people to have fun and not looking for a profit...!
Dave, if you are reading this, you are to be commended! You did a fantastic job and if you did this all by yourself, you should be at Crytek, man!
I would love for Crytek (game) and Warner (movies) to approach FOX and buy this franchise off and away from FOX's idiotic hands! That is the only way I can envision to indulge in the possibility of EVER having good Alien movies and games! 8)
I was just wondering, Dave made a fatal mistake: he should have kept it under wraps until it was finished! Otherwise, all that fine work for nothing! At least, we got a great video out of it showing how formidable AVP looks under the Cryengine 3! Uau! :o :P (this is me salivating, not sticking my tongue out! HAHAHA
As much as it pains me to say.... Fox has every right to shut down mods made based off their IPs. It's a terrible truth.
That mod looked incredible, but if he got a letter, and he's smart, he will follow their request and not continue development. At the very least if he chooses to do so it will be done very quietly. Companies do not fool around. When they send you a C&D, they mean it.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 27, 2013, 08:25:20 AM
As much as it pains me to say.... Fox has every right to shut down mods made based off their IPs. It's a terrible truth.
That mod looked incredible, but if he got a letter, and he's smart, he will follow their request and not continue development. At the very least if he chooses to do so it will be done very quietly. Companies do not fool around. When they send you a C&D, they mean it.
Still a dick move though.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2013, 04:10:09 AM
every day i'm growing more and more worried about that mod
Its dead. FOX killed it. Don't hold your breath mate.
these are dark times
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 27, 2013, 04:30:22 AM
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2013, 04:13:57 AM
they always do.
i still can't believe Hemi got his AKF through them.
FOX should be commending him, not admonish him! And by the way, this game should be free by now! Free to be modded!
And FOX sending him a CEASE AND DESIST for a game this old, to a guy who is not even looking to profit from this, is just another demonstration of the pathetic company they are!
I hope he will continue to do it, just for fun! AND if he is as pissed as I am at FOX, he should! That company never ceases to amaze me at how low they can get! A C&D for a game this old, for a guy who is doing this because he wants people to have fun and not looking for a profit...!
Dave, if you are reading this, you are to be commended! You did a fantastic job and if you did this all by yourself, you should be at Crytek, man!
I would love for Crytek (game) and Warner (movies) to approach FOX and buy this franchise off and away from FOX's idiotic hands! That is the only way I can envision to indulge in the possibility of EVER having good Alien movies and games! 8)
I was just wondering, Dave made a fatal mistake: he should have kept it under wraps until it was finished! Otherwise, all that fine work for nothing! At least, we got a great video out of it showing how formidable AVP looks under the Cryengine 3! Uau! :o :P (this is me salivating, not sticking my tongue out! HAHAHA
THIS!!
FOX have nearly killed this franchise off completely ???
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 27, 2013, 04:04:23 AM
I want the music CD as well for AVP1, chupa! They're together! SHoot... I will do it tomorrow... Find the CDs, I mean! I am too tired now!
In the meantime, I cam across this piece of work! It even made PC GAMER! I don't know if it was posted before, but If it was, I apologise... I am just mind-blown to see my fave AVP game looking like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7m5cRX3q2M#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7m5cRX3q2M#ws)
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/09/aliens-vs-marines-mod-crysis-2/ (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/09/aliens-vs-marines-mod-crysis-2/)
OMG... I want it, I want it! 8)
Thats sexy. Bet it didnt take em 6 years to get the mood down either...
Ya know, Fox oughta develop an Aliens engine, no game just a crap ton of tools and flexibility and sell it. Then they can C&D people using it for non-Aliens games and let the fans go wild.
Quote from: Aceburster on Feb 27, 2013, 03:51:18 PM
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 27, 2013, 04:04:23 AM
I want the music CD as well for AVP1, chupa! They're together! SHoot... I will do it tomorrow... Find the CDs, I mean! I am too tired now!
In the meantime, I cam across this piece of work! It even made PC GAMER! I don't know if it was posted before, but If it was, I apologise... I am just mind-blown to see my fave AVP game looking like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7m5cRX3q2M#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7m5cRX3q2M#ws)
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/09/aliens-vs-marines-mod-crysis-2/ (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/09/aliens-vs-marines-mod-crysis-2/)
OMG... I want it, I want it! 8)
Thats sexy. Bet it didnt take em 6 years to get the mood down either...
Ya know, Fox oughta develop an Aliens engine, no game just a crap ton of tools and flexibility and sell it. Then they can C&D people using it for non-Aliens games and let the fans go wild.
Fox wouldn't be able to find a whore in a whorehouse, much less build their own game engine! They could do it, but they would have to do a lot of catch-up to be on the same battle ground as the more experienced brands, such as Crytek, Valve, Epic, etc... :-\
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2013, 02:32:29 PM
these are dark times
Indeed!
Corporate douchebaggery bullshit galore
Quote from: YutaniDitch on Feb 27, 2013, 04:47:46 PM
Fox wouldn't be able to find a whore in a whorehouse, much less build their own game engine!
Or as Hudson might say:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcUWG23hqvw#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcUWG23hqvw#ws)
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 26, 2013, 04:53:40 PM
An apology would blow my skirt up, and I would scurry back to the multiplayer with my belly full of butterflies, giggling like a little girl.
But seriously, hope it's true. It also means they can maybe bring back some of the players with patches, strong DLC, and a few good months support.
Wait, ... wait I think I'm insane. :laugh:
No, the DLC if anything will hurt the game more and split up the community to those who do not want the mappacks and those who have got them. Imagine that the game had 100 players. Then 50 buy the mappacks and 50 dont. You'll only be playing with 50 or so people when you buy the dlc. You dont make DLC or addons for a game that so few people play have/play to begin with.
Quote from: Guts on Feb 28, 2013, 01:53:37 AM
Quote from: RagingDragon on Feb 26, 2013, 04:53:40 PM
An apology would blow my skirt up, and I would scurry back to the multiplayer with my belly full of butterflies, giggling like a little girl.
But seriously, hope it's true. It also means they can maybe bring back some of the players with patches, strong DLC, and a few good months support.
Wait, ... wait I think I'm insane. :laugh:
No, the DLC if anything will hurt the game more and split up the community to those who want the mappacks and those who have got them. Imagine that the game had 100 players. Then 50 buy the mappacks and 50 dont. You'll only be playing qith 50 or so people then if you buy the dlc. You dont make DLC or addons for a game that so few people play have/play to begin with.
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=english (http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=english)
Very close to the truth. I can't see A:CM on the list any more, which means that today
THERE WAS LESS THAN 500 PLAYERS WORLDWIDE ON PC FOR A:CM. Game might as well be dead, MP DLC makes 0 sense now, who is going to buy it? It might be a bit more popular on consoles, but I doubt it.
Quote from: Elicas on Feb 28, 2013, 02:01:48 AM
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=english (http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=english)
Very close to the truth. I can't see A:CM on the list any more, which means that today THERE WAS LESS THAN 500 PLAYERS WORLDWIDE ON PC FOR A:CM. Game might as well be dead, MP DLC makes 0 sense now, who is going to buy it? It might be a bit more popular on consoles, but I doubt it.
http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=49540&from=1360447200000&to=1362088800000 (http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=49540&from=1360447200000&to=1362088800000)
This graph also tells the same sad story. Peaks are now under 1000 players and the lows are around 300. They probably go higher during the weekends but still, the average player count is in steady decline.
I'm still keeping my hopes up that DLC might give the game more enjoyable qualities, just gotta hope that GBX and Sega stick to the plan.
There's just some things people don't want to accept, and I understand that. The DLC will not save this game. If you give your money to gearbox for the DLC, you're going to get more of the same. The core gameplay is broken. It requires a heavy duty overhaul, and they just aren't going to do that.
Quote from: VonPelz on Mar 01, 2013, 01:21:05 AM
I'm still keeping my hopes up that DLC might give the game more enjoyable qualities, just gotta hope that GBX and Sega stick to the plan.
The problem with this game is that neither GBX or Sega stuck to a plan.
Quote from: Ash 937 on Mar 01, 2013, 06:17:54 AM
Quote from: VonPelz on Mar 01, 2013, 01:21:05 AM
I'm still keeping my hopes up that DLC might give the game more enjoyable qualities, just gotta hope that GBX and Sega stick to the plan.
The problem with this game is that neither GBX or Sega stuck to a plan.
The problem with this game, is that it was made.
Lol core gameplay is far from "broken." What's broken is the design of the game in single-player. Multiplayer is well made and enjoyable, but they should've been rushing to fix and support this game from day 1.
After all of their bullshit, they should've seen this coming. I mean, even with the popularity of mp these days, and the longevity it can bring to games, A:CM was sold on the story, the atmosphere, and replaying something close to Aliens. Even though the mp component was strong, and still has quite a few players on consoles at least, they haven't been supporting it at all.
Their behavior, be it restricted by legal issues or whatever, has shown the community that they don't care enough to try and save the game when the time is right to try something like that. All it would've taken would be a simple "we are working hard on a patch, please bear with us" or something.
This is just embarrassing, and confirms what the angry community has said about a bait and switch.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Mar 01, 2013, 05:14:23 PM
Lol core gameplay is far from "broken." What's broken is the design of the game in single-player. Multiplayer is well made and enjoyable, but they should've been rushing to fix and support this game from day 1.
After all of their bullshit, they should've seen this coming. I mean, even with the popularity of mp these days, and the longevity it can bring to games, A:CM was sold on the story, the atmosphere, and replaying something close to Aliens. Even though the mp component was strong, and still has quite a few players on consoles at least, they haven't been supporting it at all.
Their behavior, be it restricted by legal issues or whatever, has shown the community that they don't care enough to try and save the game when the time is right to try something like that. All it would've taken would be a simple "we are working hard on a patch, please bear with us" or something.
This is just embarrassing, and confirms what the angry community has said about a bait and switch.
I'm having what Raging is having, please! ;)
Quote from: RagingDragon on Mar 01, 2013, 05:14:23 PM
Lol core gameplay is far from "broken." What's broken is the design of the game in single-player. Multiplayer is well made and enjoyable, but they should've been rushing to fix and support this game from day 1.
I completely disagree with you there.
They have to release what DLC was promised because people prebought it, but I don't think it'll do any good.
Seeing this game fail and fall apart into a crazy conspiracy war over what happened during production is more fun than the actual game.
http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/4/4063842/layoffs-hit-one-of-the-aliens-colonial-marines-development-studios (http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/4/4063842/layoffs-hit-one-of-the-aliens-colonial-marines-development-studios)
Quote from: ikarop on Mar 04, 2013, 09:23:36 PM
http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/4/4063842/layoffs-hit-one-of-the-aliens-colonial-marines-development-studios (http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/4/4063842/layoffs-hit-one-of-the-aliens-colonial-marines-development-studios)
Finally
something. I'm kind of hoping that things are so mum due to potential legal bs flying around, because Gearbox not even taking the opportunity to try and salvage their own game after such a shit show doesn't even make basic business sense.
By trying to support the game and acknowledging its problems, they both do something to repair their reputation and keep what players are left playing longer. They also show future business partners that they aren't in to flagrantly burning their entire customer base by spitting years worth of lies before releasing a crap product.
Let me call my lawyer and see if that's an advisable route to take... ::) no he wants me to keep my head buried in the ground until the reputation and future of my entire business have completely imploded.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 01, 2013, 03:30:23 AM
There's just some things people don't want to accept, and I understand that. The DLC will not save this game. If you give your money to gearbox for the DLC, you're going to get more of the same. The core gameplay is broken. It requires a heavy duty overhaul, and they just aren't going to do that.
You're wasting your money buying DLC for this game when in one more or two months time no one will be playing this game online for you to ultilize your paid DLC with. You're better off buying The orginal AVP for 5 bucks and playing with people on there.
Quote from: Guts on Mar 04, 2013, 11:01:09 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Mar 01, 2013, 03:30:23 AM
There's just some things people don't want to accept, and I understand that. The DLC will not save this game. If you give your money to gearbox for the DLC, you're going to get more of the same. The core gameplay is broken. It requires a heavy duty overhaul, and they just aren't going to do that.
You're wasting your money buying DLC for this game when in one more or two months time no one will be playing this game online for you to ultilize your paid DLC with. You're better off buying The orginal AVP for 5 bucks and playing with people on there.
What's the community like there, since that's easier than modding AvP2 and downloading all kinds of crazy stuff :P
dead as hell too, you either join a clan or do skirmish for the rest of your life.
Another interesting video, got some BIA:HH comparisons and other stuff. I guess I really hadn't seen Randy demo any other games, but his borderline idiotic glee and talk of how cool and new everything he's doing is makes my skin crawl now. Same old Randy, what a motherf**ker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heubQ9pqvCM#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heubQ9pqvCM#ws)
How can you do that to your own products? The man must have zero artistic integrity. I'm beginning to think they just got lucky with Borderlands, maybe helped out through using money from other projects!
Yeah, Gearbox should rot in f**king hell.
Hi there!
While searching for news, I came upon this five part series from Machinima - "From the Atari 2600 to Colonial Marines" - wich puts the development story in a wider historical context.
Final episode is yet to be released.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8dbZGDOmCA#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8dbZGDOmCA#ws)
Hello AvP community, please hear my plea. I just like you, am totally disgusted with how ACM has turned out. I am a HUGE fan of the Alien franchise. I have waited 12 long years for this game, anticipated how utterly awesome this game was going to be. We were all sucked in by Randy's lies and false advertisement for this game. False demos, boasts about the next gen lighting, and a story that was going to blow us all away. All filthy disgusting lies.
I think what has upset me the most is that Randy/Gearbox have made no attempt at all really to try and smooth things over with the fans. I know we'll never realistically get it, but an apology or even just a explanation of what really happened to the making of this game. Something must be done. We must not allow Gearbox and Randy Pukeface to get away with this travesty.
I would like to open the floor of what we as a community (grant it we might be small in number), but what we can do to stick it to "The Company." A petition to demand what really happened to the making of this game. Or hell, even a petition for Fox to throw this out as cannon -ahem example: Alien Resurrection, ahem- :laugh:
I dont know......sigh.......I guess I fell powerless and taken advantage of. I just want some justice. Sorry for the rant.
Quote from: ShadowPred on Mar 06, 2013, 01:58:01 AM
Yeah, Gearbox should rot in f**king hell.
I think it's worse than that, Shadow... SEGA and Gearbox signed a contract and SEGA gave them 50 million to do it... Gearbox dragged it's feet and by 2008, SEGA wanted to pull the plug on it... Gearbox eventually convinced them and at the same time, outsourced the whole SP campaign, a vital piece of the game, to a nobody company, TimeGate, resulting in a game that looks like it didn't cost more than 3 mil...So, my question is: what happened to the remaining 47 million?!?! THAT is what SEGA should scrutinise and I think Randy and crew could be facing criminal charges for embezzlement of funds, false advertising, and also, if it is proven that BORDERLANDS was indeed made with SEGA's money, a share of the profits of both BORDERLANDS 1 and 2 are in order for SEGA! Because without BORDERLANDS, there wouldn't be BORDERLANDS 2!
Unless SEGA is a naive company, a company with so many years of experience, they should be suing Gearbox for all those crimes! Because we can easily SEE in the game where all that money went to! There is no way they spent 50 million on that piece of crap game! No way! :-X
Quote from: Bounds34 on Mar 13, 2013, 07:08:06 AM
Hello AvP community, please hear my plea. I just like you, am totally disgusted with how ACM has turned out. I am a HUGE fan of the Alien franchise. I have waited 12 long years for this game, anticipated how utterly awesome this game was going to be. We were all sucked in by Randy's lies and false advertisement for this game. False demos, boasts about the next gen lighting, and a story that was going to blow us all away. All filthy disgusting lies.
I think what has upset me the most is that Randy/Gearbox have made no attempt at all really to try and smooth things over with the fans. I know we'll never realistically get it, but an apology or even just a explanation of what really happened to the making of this game. Something must be done. We must not allow Gearbox and Randy Pukeface to get away with this travesty.
I would like to open the floor of what we as a community (grant it we might be small in number), but what we can do to stick it to "The Company." A petition to demand what really happened to the making of this game. Or hell, even a petition for Fox to throw this out as cannon -ahem example: Alien Resurrection, ahem- :laugh:
I dont know......sigh.......I guess I fell powerless and taken advantage of. I just want some justice. Sorry for the rant.
Eh. I really want a novel or something about the development of this game because it's been such a trainwreck and trainwrecks are entertaining in a macabre way. But other than that, there isn't much we can do other than tell people to not buy this game.
I don't see petitions or anything being of any help, since those that worked on the game are probably under NDAs and cannot talk about it without legal repercussions or losing their jobs. I'd love for Randy to come out and speak, but he's their head PR man and doing that would wind up being a nightmare. I guess one hope is that if he goes into a legal battle with Sega, the court might force documents to be released that could give insight into what happened. I'd sure love those.
And it's pretty easy to write this off as not canon considering that it completely breaks canon.
Quote from: Bounds34 on Mar 13, 2013, 07:08:06 AM
Hello AvP community, please hear my plea. I just like you, am totally disgusted with how ACM has turned out. I am a HUGE fan of the Alien franchise. I have waited 12 long years for this game, anticipated how utterly awesome this game was going to be. We were all sucked in by Randy's lies and false advertisement for this game. False demos, boasts about the next gen lighting, and a story that was going to blow us all away. All filthy disgusting lies.
I think what has upset me the most is that Randy/Gearbox have made no attempt at all really to try and smooth things over with the fans. I know we'll never realistically get it, but an apology or even just a explanation of what really happened to the making of this game. Something must be done. We must not allow Gearbox and Randy Pukeface to get away with this travesty.
I would like to open the floor of what we as a community (grant it we might be small in number), but what we can do to stick it to "The Company." A petition to demand what really happened to the making of this game. Or hell, even a petition for Fox to throw this out as cannon -ahem example: Alien Resurrection, ahem- :laugh:
I dont know......sigh.......I guess I fell powerless and taken advantage of. I just want some justice. Sorry for the rant.
Lotta people feeling the same way. The best way to stick it to GBX is to not let anyone forget about it... Boycott if you feel that passionate or AT LEAST wait a couple weeks whenever a Gearbox game releases to stick it to em. Bout 800,000 people who wait a couple weeks damages a company in an unbelievable way. Thats about how many people got shafted with this one so dont forget about it.
More "official" forums are doing everything possible to prevent people from talking about how awful this game is or how much of a group of bastards GBX and co. are so be clever and subtle about it but dont be quiet. They need you to be quiet and forget about it.
Layoffs will keep coming and eventually people will speak up. Use every opportunity you can to use Sega GBX or anyone else you feel is at fault as an example of whats wrong with games and the franchise. Id sign a joke petition to have Randy Pitchford deported :) Just anything to keep reminding people that the guy is a !@#$%^& tool and doesnt deserve another dime.
The Sega facebook page is a good example of thousands of real people bringin the hate. Keep bringin it.
^This relieves me, Ace.
The Gearbox forums are just a psychotic shit show of poorly-spelled adoration for the game. It's like a troll invasion, or some heinous nightmare, or both. I don't understand how anyone over there can take themselves seriously after this.
I would hope most forums are a variant of our own, which I think is a nice mix of healthy anger and lots of discussion. I don't see anyone attacked for liking the game, because they explain themselves accordingly and don't try and sugar-coat the entire game through their opinion, but I also don't see people abiding this garbage. I'm very happy that people are staying mad. They definitely should be.
and I agree with you, Bounds. I truly wish there were some consequences for the blatant lies they've spun for so long.
QuoteThe Gearbox forums are just a psychotic shit show of poorly-spelled adoration for the game.
They are? I've seen a metric shit-tonne of people complaining about it.
Just try to keep it respectful when talking about other fans/forums whenever possible please.
This Kotaku article may have already been posted, from the 25th of last month:
http://kotaku.com/5986694/from-dream-to-disaster-the-story-of-aliens-colonial-marines (http://kotaku.com/5986694/from-dream-to-disaster-the-story-of-aliens-colonial-marines)
...but it's full of interesting bits like this:
QuoteAccording to one source, Sega's producers wanted Colonial Marines to feel like Call of Duty—in other words, more shooting marines, less shooting aliens. Upper staff at both Gearbox and TimeGate disagreed with this mentality, the source said, and there was a tug-of-war between developer and publisher on how the game should be designed.
And this gem here:
Quote"The game feels like it was made in nine months, and that's because it was," said a source.
Sad sad. Are they just never going to say anything to anyone about it?
Quote from: RagingDragon on Mar 18, 2013, 03:50:46 PM
This Kotaku article may have already been posted, from the 25th of last month:
http://kotaku.com/5986694/from-dream-to-disaster-the-story-of-aliens-colonial-marines (http://kotaku.com/5986694/from-dream-to-disaster-the-story-of-aliens-colonial-marines)
...but it's full of interesting bits like this:
QuoteAccording to one source, Sega's producers wanted Colonial Marines to feel like Call of Duty—in other words, more shooting marines, less shooting aliens. Upper staff at both Gearbox and TimeGate disagreed with this mentality, the source said, and there was a tug-of-war between developer and publisher on how the game should be designed.
And this gem here:
Quote"The game feels like it was made in nine months, and that's because it was," said a source.
Sad sad. Are they just never going to say anything to anyone about it?
I think missed part about Sega forcing COD crap into this game. Well there goes more blame on Sega. This is why I hate COD.
Screw dumb masses that buy the same shit. COD only worsens gaming market, leading the second gaming crash. I wouldn't hate that franchise if it weren't for its shitty influence on other games.
Quote from: RagingDragon on Mar 18, 2013, 03:50:46 PM
This Kotaku article may have already been posted, from the 25th of last month:
http://kotaku.com/5986694/from-dream-to-disaster-the-story-of-aliens-colonial-marines (http://kotaku.com/5986694/from-dream-to-disaster-the-story-of-aliens-colonial-marines)
...but it's full of interesting bits like this:
QuoteAccording to one source, Sega's producers wanted Colonial Marines to feel like Call of Duty—in other words, more shooting marines, less shooting aliens. Upper staff at both Gearbox and TimeGate disagreed with this mentality, the source said, and there was a tug-of-war between developer and publisher on how the game should be designed.
And this gem here:
Quote"The game feels like it was made in nine months, and that's because it was," said a source.
Sad sad. Are they just never going to say anything to anyone about it?
Jesus...
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Sega-Wanted-Aliens-Colonial-Marines-More-Like-Call-Duty-Says-Dev-52980.html (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Sega-Wanted-Aliens-Colonial-Marines-More-Like-Call-Duty-Says-Dev-52980.html)
Old story. But it still sickens me. Why did Sega think making a COD clone would make the game sell better? or get more people to buy it or play it? Making a aliens game into a COD clone where you shoot humans all the time and stuff isn't playing to the strength of the brand.
Isn't it possible that y'all are being a little rough on ol' Randy and Gearbox?
Guys? :-\
I'm sure all will be forgiven once that film grain toggle is sorted...
Quote from: RC on Apr 07, 2013, 05:14:24 PM
Isn't it possible that y'all are being a little rough on ol' Randy and Gearbox?
Guys? :-\
We're being too nice.
Quote from: RC on Apr 07, 2013, 05:14:24 PM
Isn't it possible that y'all are being a little rough on ol' Randy and Gearbox?
Guys? :-\
Nope
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi50.tinypic.com%2F2n21afm.jpg&hash=0907ffc143a07c9cb8031176807958521a01900c)
Quote from: RC on Apr 07, 2013, 05:14:24 PM
Isn't it possible that y'all are being a little rough on ol' Randy and Gearbox?
Guys? :-\
Where do we start?
Used fund to create Alien: Colonial Marines on Borderland 1,2 and Duke Dukem Forever. Check
Constantly lying about their oassion toward the franchise when they had freaking 6 years to work on. Check
Lying about so many stuff like solving plotholes from the movies, and yet dare to charge extra buck for that content in dlc form. Check
Releasing game in unifinished state yet charging full retail price along with season pack, dlc. Check
Deceiving gamers through fake demo that looks far better than the final product. Check.
Now tell me. How can we be generous to Gearbox and Randy Bitchfraud?
They deserve to be stomped down until they can get back up with dignity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4_3J8pvuq0# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4_3J8pvuq0#)
QuoteUsed fund to create Alien: Colonial Marines on Borderland 1,2 and Duke Dukem Forever. Check
This was proven?
Quote from: demonbane on Apr 07, 2013, 11:07:11 PM
Quote from: RC on Apr 07, 2013, 05:14:24 PM
Isn't it possible that y'all are being a little rough on ol' Randy and Gearbox?
Guys? :-\
Where do we start?
Used fund to create Alien: Colonial Marines on Borderland 1,2 and Duke Dukem Forever. Check
Constantly lying about their oassion toward the franchise when they had freaking 6 years to work on. Check
Lying about so many stuff like solving plotholes from the movies, and yet dare to charge extra buck for that content in dlc form. Check
Releasing game in unifinished state yet charging full retail price along with season pack, dlc. Check
Deceiving gamers through fake demo that looks far better than the final product. Check.
Now tell me. How can we be generous to Gearbox and Randy Bitchfraud?
Half the things you're quoting SEGA did.
Quote from: Xhan on Apr 08, 2013, 05:47:22 AM
Quote from: demonbane on Apr 07, 2013, 11:07:11 PM
Quote from: RC on Apr 07, 2013, 05:14:24 PM
Isn't it possible that y'all are being a little rough on ol' Randy and Gearbox?
Guys? :-\
Where do we start?
Used fund to create Alien: Colonial Marines on Borderland 1,2 and Duke Dukem Forever. Check
Constantly lying about their oassion toward the franchise when they had freaking 6 years to work on. Check
Lying about so many stuff like solving plotholes from the movies, and yet dare to charge extra buck for that content in dlc form. Check
Releasing game in unifinished state yet charging full retail price along with season pack, dlc. Check
Deceiving gamers through fake demo that looks far better than the final product. Check.
Now tell me. How can we be generous to Gearbox and Randy Bitchfraud?
Half the things you're quoting SEGA did.
I never said Sega is totally innocent. Hell, I blamed them for daring to demand to put COD elements to this game. That was stupid decision. Why bother obtaining liscense at all if they were to fill more than half of campaign with COD elements when COD kids won't even give a look at the game?
And for Sega releasing unfinished game despite knowing the poor quality has to do with Gearbox lying as well. As far as I know, they were unware of outsourcing.
And deceiving consumers were mostly done by Gearbox. I mean Randy Pitchfraud came to E3 and hyped the game through the demo. So no. Gearbox should take most of blame. One thing gaming industry should learn from this fiasco is good management.
So you're reporting the 'Gearbox took the Aliens money and spent it on Borderlands' rumour as fact then?
Quote from: SM on Apr 08, 2013, 11:09:25 PM
So you're reporting the 'Gearbox took the Aliens money and spent it on Borderlands' rumour as fact then?
Im pretty sure it is fact.
All those interviewed employees of timegate/gearbox confirm it.
Whom?
There's no real evidence that funds from Aliens: Colonial Marines were used to make any other games. This is just the type of conspiracy fanboy mannerism that gives gamers in a general a bad image. No, I'm not happy with the way the game turned out - I was seriously disappointed and upset - but I can move on.
I don't know what really happened to the game (neither do any of you) - we only have bits and pieces. Pointing the finger at Randy is easy enough, but that doesn't solve anything. Gearbox has delivered solid game series like Brothers in Arms and Borderlands, yet you just like to act as if they are the most evil company on Earth. Whatever happened to the game, it is obvious that it isn't solely Gearbox's fault. SEGA for one wanted the game to be more similar to Call of Duty series.
Sega is a horrible company that is also missmanged and has been for years. This is the same company that gave up Bayonetta which is the single greatest new IP in years to Nintendo. Granted AVP2010 had a 11 million budget? and i think for that money they created a pretty decent game. Aliens Colonial marines had 65 million. Which is in the same league as Killzone as far as budget goes.
But where did all this money go to? in the development time of Aliens We've had two Borderlands games. TWO! We was promised a AAA title and for that budget we should of got it. Sega had good intentions with the game. giving a respectful developer alot of money to develop a good game. Instead Sega let things slip on gearbox and gearbox got away with oursourcing most of the game to a shitty developer.
After playing this game for the past week its clear something went wrong in its development. Sure it has the fundementals of being such a great game. If the game had been funded correctly and was given another year in full time development. Im sure we could of gotten a better game.
They took breaks to finish Borderlands 1 & 2 in which time people were moved from one project to another. This is something I know personally. That's where most of the speculation is coming from. This shifting of resources was publicly pointed out by several former devs (you can find all the articles in this thread) after launch but nothing has been proved to a deeper (or official) extend yet.
Honestly, has Gearbox ever thought of using their money earned from Boderland 1,2 to extend A:CM development?
I mean they should be ashamed to ask Sega for more money if they needed more time.
Since the internal monetary dealings of Gearbox and Sega are not publicly known - it's pretty pointless casting nasturtiums.
Quote from: SM on Apr 10, 2013, 03:51:38 AM
Since the internal monetary dealings of Gearbox and Sega are not publicly known - it's pretty pointless casting nasturtiums.
The only true wisdom consists in knowing that you know nothing. That's us, dude!
Quote from: demonbane on Apr 09, 2013, 07:02:22 PM
Honestly, has Gearbox ever thought of using their money earned from Boderland 1,2 to extend A:CM development?
I mean they should be ashamed to ask Sega for more money if they needed more time.
They did use money from those to extend the game, they just didn't do it very well. A game does not exist in development for that long without substantial financial wherewithal. If you knew how much Duke Nukem actually cost, you'd be peeing blood.
I can do that without knowing how much it cost. :-[
Quote from: Xhan on Apr 10, 2013, 04:20:19 AM
Quote from: demonbane on Apr 09, 2013, 07:02:22 PM
Honestly, has Gearbox ever thought of using their money earned from Boderland 1,2 to extend A:CM development?
I mean they should be ashamed to ask Sega for more money if they needed more time.
They did use money from those to extend the game, they just didn't do it very well. A game does not exist in development for that long without substantial financial wherewithal. If you knew how much Duke Nukem actually cost, you'd be peeing blood.
How much did it cost?
One large pool of urine smelling blood.
Quote from: SM on Apr 19, 2013, 05:51:59 AM
One large pool of urine smelling blood.
I need a source.
An infected urinary tract.
What was the cause?
Talent deficiency.
Quote from: SM on Apr 19, 2013, 07:05:51 AM
Talent deficiency.
Total incompetence for such a thing to happen.
Just read this via Sadogoat on the GBX forums (http://www.shacknews.com/article/79027/section-8-developer-files-for-bankruptcy-protection)
Timegate files for bankruptcy protection...
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/02/colonial-marines-co-dev-timegate-files-for-bankruptcy-protection/ (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/02/colonial-marines-co-dev-timegate-files-for-bankruptcy-protection/)
See post before yours.
It was in it's own thread titled 'Timegate files for Chapter 11' but that's now missing since it got merged in here and just looks like some obscure and unrelated link...
Karma. It always comes back. Gearbox will get it back too on them for what they have done. Timegate is already suffering.
Looks like they laid everyone off.. http://kotaku.com/the-studio-behind-aliens-colonial-marines-just-laid-of-498772251?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow (http://kotaku.com/the-studio-behind-aliens-colonial-marines-just-laid-of-498772251?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow)
Timegate shouldn't have to suffer for the mistakes made by others. Gearbox is a cowardly sack of shit. Sega is a bastard.
I hope they screw up the next Borderlands, and it gets bad reviews and because of such reviews and bad "word of mouth" the game has terrible sales. Then, that might mark the end of Gearbox. Cause they need to go down for all this.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/10/game-over-timegate-shut-down-most-staff-laid-off/ (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/10/game-over-timegate-shut-down-most-staff-laid-off/)
Possibly due to A:CM being the straw that broke the camels back, possibly due to their other outstanding factors (they seem to be in a lot of debt to numerous people), but Timegate has gone under.
Quote from: Elicas on May 10, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/10/game-over-timegate-shut-down-most-staff-laid-off/ (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/10/game-over-timegate-shut-down-most-staff-laid-off/)
Possibly due to A:CM being the straw that broke the camels back, possibly due to their other outstanding factors (they seem to be in a lot of debt to numerous people), but Timegate has gone under.
Well, sucks to be those guys, they shoulda never accepted GBX's offer to work on A:CM.
Quote from: Grey_Yautja on May 11, 2013, 07:27:57 AM
Quote from: Elicas on May 10, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/10/game-over-timegate-shut-down-most-staff-laid-off/ (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/10/game-over-timegate-shut-down-most-staff-laid-off/)
Possibly due to A:CM being the straw that broke the camels back, possibly due to their other outstanding factors (they seem to be in a lot of debt to numerous people), but Timegate has gone under.
Well, sucks to be those guys, they shoulda never accepted GBX's offer to work on A:CM.
It would've seemed like a dream come true... until they got GBX's build and saw what had been done so far.
Quote from: Samus007 on May 09, 2013, 06:43:32 PM
I hope they screw up the next Borderlands, and it gets bad reviews and because of such reviews and bad "word of mouth" the game has terrible sales. Then, that might mark the end of Gearbox. Cause they need to go down for all this.
I wouldn't want them to go down because of one project, really. I'm just pissed it is A:CM...
Quote from: Elicas on May 10, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/10/game-over-timegate-shut-down-most-staff-laid-off/ (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/05/10/game-over-timegate-shut-down-most-staff-laid-off/)
Possibly due to A:CM being the straw that broke the camels back, possibly due to their other outstanding factors (they seem to be in a lot of debt to numerous people), but Timegate has gone under.
I can't see A:CM having too much to do with Timegate closing. As you stated, even if the game had done well review wise, Timegate had way too much unpaid debt. If anything I'd imagine working on A:CM kept them alive longer than they would have been without it. It just sounds like bad management and from the sound of these worker reviews the company was badly run for years. http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Timegate-Studios-Reviews-E227799.htm (http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Timegate-Studios-Reviews-E227799.htm)
In the end the quality of the game still falls on Sega and Gearbox's shoulders. Gearbox should have been developing the majority of the game themselves instead of entrusting so much to a company that had so little experience under its belt. Even in doing so, was no one at Gearbox or Sega routinely checking or reviewing builds from Timesgate ever day or week to see what shape it was in?Just mind boggling.
Aliens DLC Movie Pack on polycount-
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1867584#post1867584 (http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1867584#post1867584)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spetch.me%2Fimages%2Faliensdlc%2FGalley01.jpg&hash=994b08dfcea0b32f9fbf6d968c1c06781ad5124b)
Similar compilation from a Demiurge worker: http://aeternumars.wordpress.com/new-page-2/ (http://aeternumars.wordpress.com/new-page-2/)
Related (SP DLC): http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=47572.msg1672959#msg1672959 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=47572.msg1672959#msg1672959)
I just read the Naughty Dog's PS3 exclusive title, The Last of Us was in development for 4 years. By contrast, A:CM was in development for 6 years with GBX (while getting help from a number of other studios to boot).
Naughty Dog = Masters of the Game
Gearbox = A crack house studio full of quasi-pimp charlatans
imo
Quote from: Ash 937 on Jun 29, 2013, 01:20:35 AMimo
It's a mutual sentiment. Past this point/game, you can't just trust GBX with any franchise, because money speaks louder than...words and actions, I guess.
https://twitter.com/DuvalMagic/status/351149261540429825
"To share intent..."
He did show what he intended the game to be, it just ended up nothing like what he was going for.
I really wish there was some way to get a look at the script that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson worked on. Was it scrapped because it was too complicated or could it possibly have been worse than what we got?
I don't know if that's possible.
There is no way that their script was even worse than what we ended up getting. I refuse to believe that such a possibility could even exist.
GBX probably couldn't fit enough of a game into a script that was very intricate...so they had to go with something more simple in the end. The overall quality of the game matches the overall quality of the script when you think about it. I'm sure that GBX's investment in the project squandered any good ideas that the original writers had going into the project.
No commitment to level design, cut scenes, or even finishing the game = your game will be crap in writing department too. No way around it.
The saddest thing about the game is that is sold very well despite it's quality...that's a message to other game companies to follow suit and do the same thing.
Quote from: newbeing on Jul 01, 2013, 07:23:50 PM
I really wish there was some way to get a look at the script that David Weddle and Bradley Thompson worked on. Was it scrapped because it was too complicated or could it possibly have been worse than what we got?
It couldn't have been worse, that's impossible.
That script was from back when the game was going to have us visit other places than LV-426 I believe, it probably got scrapped because of the shift to focusing entirely on LV-426.
Quote from: Ash 937 on Jul 02, 2013, 12:59:48 AM
GBX probably couldn't fit enough of a game into a script that was very intricate...so they had to go with something more simple in the end. The overall quality of the game matches the overall quality of the script when you think about it. I'm sure that GBX's investment in the project squandered any good ideas that the original writers had going into the project.
No commitment to level design, cut scenes, or even finishing the game = your game will be crap in writing department too. No way around it.
The saddest thing about the game is that is sold very well despite it's quality...that's a message to other game companies to follow suit and do the same thing.
Just pray the gearbox and sega lose the lawsuit hard.
Me too.
Not to bump, but im curious if anyone has heard anything new
About what?