There Are Some Places In The Universe You Don't Go Alone, Aliens 35th Anniversary Retrospective - AvP Galaxy Podcast #129

Started by Corporal Hicks, Jul 18, 2021, 03:49:53 PM

Author
There Are Some Places In The Universe You Don't Go Alone, Aliens 35th Anniversary Retrospective - AvP Galaxy Podcast #129 (Read 14,179 times)

BlueMarsalis79

I can get it, I do not personally empathize completely, but I understand the perspective being that it is one of only three entries in the franchise that receive near universal praise, and in that respect listening to people gushing endlessly over thirty five years can be tiring.

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Kradan on Jul 24, 2021, 05:55:09 AM
I can't stand whole "Alien vs Aliens" argument, comments like "Cameron turned them into bugs, Aliens aren't threat anymore?

Indeed! Valaquen said it best. "In light of the evidence pointing to the original Alien makers being heavily and happily influenced by insects, attributing this to Cameron is akin to blaming wet streets for rain."

And in the first film, the Alien was ultimately defeated when it went up against a handful of untrained-in-combat blue-collar workers. We witnessed a grappling hook puncture its hide and wound it. Yep, the xenos in Aliens are exactly the same threat level as in the film that spawned it. Maybe even more.

XenoHunter99

Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 23, 2021, 07:23:53 PM

Care to elaborate on what you consider its faults? Constructive criticism is always welcome. It is rare on these boards to meet someone who isn't fond of Aliens. I am honestly curious what you consider its faults. I may be major fan of Aliens myself, but I like hearing why someone isn't as keen on it as I am.

Hi all,
Sure, I'll be happy to talk a little bit about this. So, first: I'm not trying to kill anyone's love of the movie or say "Ew it's terrible." I still like a lot about it and happily acknowledge its much wider cultural influence. This is also not an Alien vs Aliens sort of thing. I'm talking about my own experience with it as audience. In that capacity, there are parts of the movie that bugged me from the start and, for me, haven't aged well. And I can actually sum much of that up in one thought: Too much Ripley. So, I'll just get in trouble here and probably offend everyone. Apologies in advance.

I've thought about it and it's really a combination of Cameron's writing, his direction, and Weaver's performance in the movie. I don't doubt it's a good performance large portions of her performance grate on me. They did from the start. There's inquest, the part where she briefs the marines, the parts with Newt. It's overplayed. It makes more sense witht he deleted scenes; but If I never see it again, it's fine.

This is not "I hate Sigourney Weaver." She's fine in the original, fine in A3, and even creepy-fine in Resurrection. I like Ripley 8 as a character. Also, no problem watching her in other movies. I love her character in Galaxy Quest, for example. But in Aliens, there is way too much of a certain sort of Ripley.

From a story point of view, sure. She's the Human Queen playing chess with the Alien Queen. But keep in mind, in the 80s, there was no extended director's cut. There was not a lot of the background. You just have Ripley doing all the things she did, the way she did in the theatrical cut. And it's kind of disjointed. I suppose I should cut her some slack 'cause she's probably got an awful case of PTSD. I'm sort of surprised they don't have a pill for that in the future, or maybe they do and Cameron didn't show that part. Either way, that's all I can say about it.

Let's move on to the action sequences. Oh, how can I complain about the action sequences? Well, the dropship crash looked bad even in 1986. So did the chestburster, actually. Around our house, we call the chestburster The Sockpuppet of Doom. They all look like fancy sockpuppets. I have a softspot for the original chestburster because there was really nothing like it before that; and I like the way the scene is framed and shot. But let's tell the truth: Spaceballs took the piss out of the chestburster, and John Hurt was there. And after seeing a chestburster dancing cabaret, how can you take the thing seriously ever again?

Then there is the end, and Ripley using her arm to hold back the whole vacuum of space with a 12 ton monster + powerloader hanging for seemingly forever from her foot. Cue the Hishe Aliens video.



So, yeah. But I don't end on a downer. So let's talk about some positive. The facehuggers still look great! The little buggers are strong, fast, and terrifying! The marines going into the hive sequence is great! Very creepy until it all turns deadly. I especially love that one shot where the creatures start unfolding from the walls. They were there the whole time! There is the shot where the Alien kills Ferro. Very well staged! The last stand fight is still excellent. The way it's lit, the way the creatures move, all of it. Good stuff!  After the survivors withdraw, Gorman got a surprisingly good death. Burke got what he deserved. Cheers to that! And Ripley vs Alien Queen was a good fight. I'd have liked it better if the queen put her tailspike through Ripley's forehead, but plot armor. Can't always have what you want.

Finally, the extended cut wins for showing life on the colony. The before/after contrast is powerful.

And that's all.



City Hunter Yautja

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Jul 24, 2021, 03:09:14 PM
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 23, 2021, 07:23:53 PM

Care to elaborate on what you consider its faults? Constructive criticism is always welcome. It is rare on these boards to meet someone who isn't fond of Aliens. I am honestly curious what you consider its faults. I may be major fan of Aliens myself, but I like hearing why someone isn't as keen on it as I am.

Hi all,
Sure, I'll be happy to talk a little bit about this. So, first: I'm not trying to kill anyone's love of the movie or say "Ew it's terrible." I still like a lot about it and happily acknowledge its much wider cultural influence. This is also not an Alien vs Aliens sort of thing. I'm talking about my own experience with it as audience. In that capacity, there are parts of the movie that bugged me from the start and, for me, haven't aged well. And I can actually sum much of that up in one thought: Too much Ripley. So, I'll just get in trouble here and probably offend everyone. Apologies in advance.

I've thought about it and it's really a combination of Cameron's writing, his direction, and Weaver's performance in the movie. I don't doubt it's a good performance large portions of her performance grate on me. They did from the start. There's inquest, the part where she briefs the marines, the parts with Newt. It's overplayed. It makes more sense witht he deleted scenes; but If I never see it again, it's fine.

This is not "I hate Sigourney Weaver." She's fine in the original, fine in A3, and even creepy-fine in Resurrection. I like Ripley 8 as a character. Also, no problem watching her in other movies. I love her character in Galaxy Quest, for example. But in Aliens, there is way too much of a certain sort of Ripley.

From a story point of view, sure. She's the Human Queen playing chess with the Alien Queen. But keep in mind, in the 80s, there was no extended director's cut. There was not a lot of the background. You just have Ripley doing all the things she did, the way she did in the theatrical cut. And it's kind of disjointed. I suppose I should cut her some slack 'cause she's probably got an awful case of PTSD. I'm sort of surprised they don't have a pill for that in the future, or maybe they do and Cameron didn't show that part. Either way, that's all I can say about it.

Let's move on to the action sequences. Oh, how can I complain about the action sequences? Well, the dropship crash looked bad even in 1986. So did the chestburster, actually. Around our house, we call the chestburster The Sockpuppet of Doom. They all look like fancy sockpuppets. I have a softspot for the original chestburster because there was really nothing like it before that; and I like the way the scene is framed and shot. But let's tell the truth: Spaceballs took the piss out of the chestburster, and John Hurt was there. And after seeing a chestburster dancing cabaret, how can you take the thing seriously ever again?

Then there is the end, and Ripley using her arm to hold back the whole vacuum of space with a 12 ton monster + powerloader hanging for seemingly forever from her foot. Cue the Hishe Aliens video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcFnvULy8zA

So, yeah. But I don't end on a downer. So let's talk about some positive. The facehuggers still look great! The little buggers are strong, fast, and terrifying! The marines going into the hive sequence is great! Very creepy until it all turns deadly. I especially love that one shot where the creatures start unfolding from the walls. They were there the whole time! There is the shot where the Alien kills Ferro. Very well staged! The last stand fight is still excellent. The way it's lit, the way the creatures move, all of it. Good stuff!  After the survivors withdraw, Gorman got a surprisingly good death. Burke got what he deserved. Cheers to that! And Ripley vs Alien Queen was a good fight. I'd have liked it better if the queen put her tailspike through Ripley's forehead, but plot armor. Can't always have what you want.

Finally, the extended cut wins for showing life on the colony. The before/after contrast is powerful.

And that's all.

Your critiques of Ripley are valid. I think I didn't notice them as much because the wider cast takes your attention off her until the last 20mins which is all her. I agree with you, Ripley comes off a little too zealous and bossy in those scenes, especially on LV-421's Colony. She's a civilian, but is giving orders. She also doesn't seemes horrified enough, I mean at the beginning of the film she has PTSD and fears becoming a hist, but in also her scenes on LV she is calm, composed, and frankly lacking the craven demeanor from earlier in the film.

Ripley is better in Alien and Alien 3 I agree. There her behavior seems more realistic. James Cameron made Ripley too much of Linda Hamilton/ Sarah Conner T2 knock off (even though I realize T2 came later).

I think the facehugger scene lacks tension because its Ripley and Newt. Had they been released on everyone, and Hutson got one on his face, that would have been a fitting end to him; loudest and most talkative guy gets his pie hole stuffed with facehugger. Perhaps Burke even getting a facehugger on him too, some reverse justice since he released them.

While I likes the Alien Queen vs Ripley in the Loader, the scene when she opens the airlock and Queen Alien holds on to her leg is ridiculous. Her leg would have snapped or tore off.

While I love Aliens, I admit it has flaws. Like any movie we overlook the flaws because the full product is well done. I think Aliens is well done, but yes, Cameron went over the top in areas.


SiL

I read that whole post and am still not sure what the actual problem is. Too much of a "certain sort" of Ripley? What does that even mean  :laugh:

Ripley responds to difficult situations by switching into problem solving mode. This is consistent in the first three movies. She's a "bossy" character, constantly butting heads with authority. Again, consistent in the movies.

I'm no cheerleader for the film - I've never much liked it - but I'm not sure what the particular issue there is.


SiL

I prefer her in 1 and 3 but honestly it may just be the perm.

Voodoo Magic


City Hunter Yautja

Quote from: SiL on Jul 24, 2021, 10:26:57 PM
I prefer her in 1 and 3 but honestly it may just be the perm.

Sigourney does look better in longer hair. I mean I had a crush on her in Resurrection.

Alien 3 G.I. Jane look isn't my fav, but it works for the movie.

BlueMarsalis79


City Hunter Yautja

So far its unanimous, Rupley's Aliens hairdo sucks.

I have to say Aliens also is least terrifying entry. Alien and Alien3 mess with you psychologically. That was the genius of Alien3 it made you get inkling of the terror from Alien that Ripley is carrying a chestburster inside her, which makes you empathically think about one being in yourself (or at least I did).

Cameron didn't emphasize the horror of the Xenomorph life cycle enough. Its too fun a thrill ride to really let the horror penetrate your mind and soul as it did in Alien.

SiL

The lead into the Operations firefight is singularly more nerve wracking and suspenseful than anything Alien 3 managed.

The growing dread and realisation as the Aliens close in, followed by one of the most iconic reveals of the entire franchise, is a masterpiece of suspense.

City Hunter Yautja

Quote from: SiL on Jul 25, 2021, 01:41:43 AM
The lead into the Operations firefight is singularly more nerve wracking and suspenseful than anything Alien 3 managed.

The growing dread and realisation as the Aliens close in, followed by one of the most iconic reveals of the entire franchise, is a masterpiece of suspense.

Suspense yes, but not horror.

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