Strange Shapes

Started by Valaquen, Oct 19, 2012, 03:40:59 AM

Author
Strange Shapes (Read 68,209 times)

MrSpaceJockey

MrSpaceJockey

#15
Now I know why no one every comes down here. It's you SM.

Ain't got no personality...

samoht

samoht

#16
But he does have awesome shoes. holy shit man. Better than porn imo.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#17
Quote from: aliennaire on Oct 20, 2012, 04:12:12 PM
Valaquen, your blog on Wordpress platform looks more clear and neat (that is the power of white backgrounds  ;D kidding!..), it definitely looks more professional! I guess, it was a right move.

And early congratulations on your liitle one (with a wishing of oceans of patience  ;))
The same goes on SM way  :)

And may I ask, Valaquen, are you going to upload the article once I saw on your blogger source, the article critisising A^3? It read half-humorous, half-sad, and I liked it... Just asking!  :)
Thanks very much :)

Yeah, I'll have it up there at some point. I'm putting stuff up every day. Just ported this baby: http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/21/the-eighth-passenger/

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#18
Quote from: samoht on Oct 20, 2012, 11:04:33 AM
In case you didn't get that RaisingCane, the answer was no.

I don't understand.

samoht

samoht

#19
Quote from: RaisingCane on Oct 21, 2012, 10:20:33 PM
Quote from: samoht on Oct 20, 2012, 11:04:33 AM
In case you didn't get that RaisingCane, the answer was no.

I don't understand.

Let me explain.

You asked SM for sex and he said no. Just remember that the best kind of sex is consensual.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#20
Okay, that's what I thought.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#21
I had a brainfart and wrote this: http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/aliens-fear-of-fire/

I never found the idea that the Aliens are afraid of fire very convincing, so I wrote this up. Thoughts?

SM

SM

#22
I think there's plenty of evidence that they're afraid of fire.  The Queen cracking the shits when Ripley tries it on with the flamethrower, and then again when she torches the eggs.  So it's with good reason that the Queen was afraid of fire.

Does one recoil in 'anger' as the Queen did from the failing flamethrower in the lift or the welding torch on the loader?  I don't think so; you recoil because it hurts.  Ergo you have a fear of the pain fire causes.

Fincher directed Woodruff in Alien3 to 'Get that bitch!  You hate the fire!' or words to that affect, when Ripley's bashing it with the torch.

Will it kill them? I highly doubt it.  The Queen sat on top of an inferno of napalm and explosives with nary a scratch.  Doesn't mean it wouldn't sting a bit.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#23
Quote from: SM on Oct 22, 2012, 06:10:06 AM
I think there's plenty of evidence that they're afraid of fire.  The Queen cracking the shits when Ripley tries it on with the flamethrower, and then again when she torches the eggs.  So it's with good reason that the Queen was afraid of fire.
I never saw, or see, her as afraid of the fire itself, but the consequences (her children will die).

QuoteDoes one recoil in 'anger' as the Queen did from the failing flamethrower in the lift or the welding torch on the loader?  I don't think so; you recoil because it hurts.  Ergo you have a fear of the pain fire causes.
I think it hurt. I don't necessarily think they're afraid. Like flicking a lighter under your finger - it hurts, but I'm not afraid. It annoys me (I have an annoying brother). Of course, if someone threatened me with a flamethrower ... then again I'm not an alien superfiend  :P

QuoteFincher directed Woodruff in Alien3 to 'Get that bitch!  You hate the fire!' or words to that affect, when Ripley's bashing it with the torch.
Wasn't it "you hate that bitch!" ?

QuoteWill it kill them? I highly doubt it.  The Queen sat on top of an inferno of napalm and explosives with nary a scratch.  Doesn't mean it wouldn't sting a bit.
I agree.

Thanks for the intelligent response, SM. I'm musing on it.

SM

SM

#24
QuoteI never saw, or see, her as afraid of the fire itself, but the consequences (her children will die).

Fear of the consequences is still fear, thus making Ripley's statement correct to the best of her knowledge.

QuoteI think it hurt. I don't necessarily think they're afraid.

Yet the Queen recoils from it, thus making Ripley's statement correct again.

QuoteWasn't it "you hate that bitch!" ?

It might be - I don't have the exact quote, but I remember something mentioned about the torch.

PS- Junior sacrificed himself - not Jude.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#25
Quote from: SM on Oct 22, 2012, 06:18:44 AM
Fear of the consequences is still fear, thus making Ripley's statement correct to the best of her knowledge.
So she's afraid her children will die, fire seems to be the secondary concern. If Ripley could destroy the hive with anything else (flooding it?) would she necessarily fear that other object? I'm not afraid of the ocean, but if my duaghter was playing in the surf, I'd feel an innate concern, even fear, for the consequences. None of the other Aliens seem significantly repelled by the flames.

QuoteIt might be - I don't have the exact quote, but I remember something mentioned about the torch.

PS- Junior sacrificed himself - not Jude.
I'm sure it is. Paraphrased from Sigourney.

Cheers, corrected! Shouldn't even be awake a this time...

SM

SM

#26
Get used to it.

QuoteNone of the other Aliens seem significantly repelled by the flames.

None of them have to go through the flames either (in the nursery).  Ripley shoots a couple off the walls, possibly indicating they're climbing around the inferno on the floor, rather than just walking through it.

Again, why does the Queen recoil from flame if not from the hurties it causes?  It's right there in your sig picture, even.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#27
Quote from: SM on Oct 22, 2012, 06:30:48 AM
Get used to it.
:laugh: I'll have no choice, will I?

Quote

None of them have to go through the flames either (in the nursery).  Ripley shoots a couple off the walls, possibly indicating they're climbing around the inferno on the floor, rather than just walking through it.
What do you think of the Alien in the third movie, in the flaming tunnels?

QuoteAgain, why does the Queen recoil from flame if not from the hurties it causes?  It's right there in your sig picture, even.
I should be clearer in my proposition: when the characters state that the Aliens are afraid of fire, I take it to mean that it repels them; they inherently fear the flames. When it comes to a pain response, recoiling seems natural, though not necessarily tied to a flat-out, tail-between-the-legs response to a stimulus. I definitely think the Aliens, all of them, feel pain, but not that fire is their one and only fear. Had Ripley stabbed the Queen and it recoiled, I'm not entirely sure we would say that the Aliens necessarily fear sharp objects.

This reminds me of the 'do androids feel pain' debate (which I'll probably write an article on - a debate series would be good).

SM

SM

#28
QuoteWhat do you think of the Alien in the third movie, in the flaming tunnels?

It doesn't actually come into contact with any flame.  The flames are on the walls and it runs right down the middle of the corridor.  Could even make a hypothetical argument that it came down out of the ducts because the fir in them.

QuoteWhen it comes to a pain response, recoiling seems natural, though not necessarily tied to a flat-out, tail-between-the-legs response to a stimulus.

I don't think it'd ever make them turn tail and run - but a flaming torch could be sufficient to hold it at bay, if only for short time.

QuoteI definitely think the Aliens, all of them, feel pain, but not that fire is their one and only fear.

Of course, but this whole debate it born out of Ripley's assertion that they're afraid of fire - which as far as she's experienced is true.

QuoteThis reminds me of the 'do androids feel pain' debate (which I'll probably write an article on - a debate series would be good).

They don't - but they can do a good job of faking it.

EGM1966

EGM1966

#29
Quote from: Valaquen on Oct 22, 2012, 05:48:59 AM
I had a brainfart and wrote this: http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/aliens-fear-of-fire/

I never found the idea that the Aliens are afraid of fire very convincing, so I wrote this up. Thoughts?

Like the new blog - been a reader for a while.  As for fire I'd say the situation changes per film and that the answer should probably be no but Cameron changed that around.  In Alien Ash (who we know is actually protecting the Alien) suggests fire because most creatures are afraid of fire.  However the Alien no only doesn't seem put off by Dallas spraying fire around and in fact closes in towards him.  It's also very unlikely Ash would suggest fire if it would really harm the Alien.  So purely in terms of Alien I'd say that while it's never properly tested it's very likely fire would be an annoyance at best.

Cameron picked up on the fire/flamethrowers for Aliens however he clearly took Ash's words as gospel (his narrative required fire to be somewhat of a threat as well) and showed that the Alien's are at least wary of fire and that it can kill at least immature Alien forms (the chestburster in this case).

Poor Fincher - saddled with a muddled script from 13 different writers) has fire both seem to be a threat while also showing the Alien is fairly heat resistant (if it could take being heated by molten metal then the fire seen previously would be nothing to it).

So I'd say there's no clear evidence the Alien truly fears fire as an adult but they may show respect for it if embryonic Aliens are threatened (eggs and chestbursters).

I tend to take Alien as cannon above all sequels and personally I'd say the answer was certainly originally intended to be "no" on the basis of Ash only suggesting fire because it would prove useless (and this I'd argue was proven when the Alien nabbed Dallas) plus the fact at one point they planned to show the Alien in Alien rushing right through the fire completely untroubled by it - so basically Camerson retconned the context of Alien to suit his narrative needs.


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