“I Found Perfection Here. I’ve Created It. Perfect Organism” – Alien: Covenant’s Alien Creation Controversy

Started by Corporal Hicks, Jan 02, 2022, 11:17:58 AM

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“I Found Perfection Here. I’ve Created It. Perfect Organism” – Alien: Covenant’s Alien Creation Controversy (Read 3,772 times)

Corporal Hicks

Perfect Organism is to Alien what Man of Steel is to Superman, what Dark Knight is to Batman. The Perfect Organism is the Alien. So when David told Walter "I found perfection here. I've created it. Perfect Organism" Alien: Covenant is explicitly telling us something: that David created the Alien. 

Before we dive too deep, I just wanted to say that I love Alien: Covenant. It's my favourite Alien film next to the original trilogy, and I easily consider David one of the best things to happen to the franchise in recent years. But I'm not a big fan of the idea that David was responsible for the creation of the Aliens.  

I know I'm not alone in this. And I know I'm also not alone in hanging my hopes on that precious wiggle room that Alien: Covenant offers us that perhaps David isn't going to be responsible for the creation of H.R Giger's Alien as we know it from the original films.  

It's a discussion that I frequently see arise, with passion shown for and against. I've been wanting to take a look at both sides of this coin for a while now. So let's lay down the truths as the film sees it, and the possibilities I cling to so that we can work our way away from this direction. 

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Nightmare Asylum

Will listen to this in a bit!

I obviously fall very much into the side that is really into the idea of David being the creator (and just bringing the Covenant crew into H.R. Giger's his lab to show off the fun new toys he made) of the capital-A Alien, as everyone knows, but I would also be ok with recontextualizing that provided the revelation is something that actually propels David's story forward so that he has to actually confront the idea that he isn't the creator that he truly believes himself to be. Either way, whether he originates the form of Alien that we know from the original films or not, the raw materials and core genetic coding of the pathogen that he used to shape his Alien remains ancient and unknowable eldritch horror.

Nukiemorph

I personally love David as the creator, but I understand I'm in the minority... so I'm willing to sell out and let it go if it makes people love this franchise again.

Interesting to hear Ridley discuss AI being incapable of creation. That's an angle I've imagined for David. Maybe before he's destroyed, he could be emotionally devastated to learn that he's not actually capable of creation.

Whatever happens with this franchise, I just hope the events of the prequels remain canon.

PsyKore

The process and tools available tend to lead to a similar outcome; and I think by that extension David is just recreating something. Everything involving the black goo has Alien traits, and we know the Engineers have biomech technology already, so all the pieces exist before the time of David. There is some missing information in whether or not a true Giger-esque Alien already exists somewhere. But overall I feel like David has just been connecting dots rather than creating.

The real allure to David's character is his insanity, I think, and how it links to the Alien being born. The chaos of his AI is something which, in a roundabout way, tends to go hand-in-hand with the chaos of the Alien. It's kinda cool. So to me it's not so much him creating the Alien, but it's as if they both represent chaos and it's chaos itself which creates. It's this chaos that spurs David's passion, I think. I dunno if that sounds wank, but it's fun to think about.


Nightmare Asylum

Nightmare Asylum

#4
Quote from: Nukiemorph on Jan 02, 2022, 09:42:03 PM
I personally love David as the creator, but I understand I'm in the minority... so I'm willing to sell out and let it go if it makes people love this franchise again.

Eh, I really don't care much if the audience at large loves this stuff - in fact, I'd prefer that it never really gets Marvel/Star Wars-level big, because that's when they really start playing everything safe and making everything just basically retreads of Alien/Aliens again and we never see any more risks akin to the David as creator angle that Covenant tackled.

I don't even care if I love everything that comes out, honestly. Most of the fun of Alien as an "ongoing franchise" is that it is string of sequels/prequels where each new creator that comes in (or old creator that returns, in the case of Ridley) really puts their own stamp on the material in ways that they want to, with a level of freedom and willingness to break the mold that so many other franchises don't have the luxury of because most of the other film series in this vein are more rigidly locked into a singular style/tone. I don't love Prometheus - but I'm intrigued by a lot of what it is going for and have a certain level of appreciation for it and the concepts that it is exploring, and Covenant, a movie I did end up loving, built on those concepts in even more interesting ways.

That's why I feel like, if this revelation is ever going to be retconned, then it has to be in service of David's further development, otherwise why even bother retconning it in the first place? If you aren't going to do it in a way that continues and expands upon David's story, then there really isn't even any reason to ever mention the creation again at all as they move forward. It's not like any other characters in this universe would know/care where the Aliens came from, one way or the other.

The Cruentus

The "david creating the alien" is only a part of the problem there, its how they altered the alien biology to implant chestbursters within seconds of attachment even when it doesn't have its tube in anyone's throat. (Lope was shouting clearly with no obstruction to his throat.)

I enjoyed Alien: Covenant but I find it far too lore breaking and shallow for my liking. I daresay even the first avp film didn't leave as much gut punch as Covenant did, and even that film messed with the lore and life-cycle too.

Still, I hope Scott gets to finish his trilogy, if only for closure on the chapter,  and maybe we can get a new lore friendly origins could be created (or maybe leave the origins a mystery)

EJA

David being THE creator of the Alien is a stupid idea.

oduodu

i am cool with david being a re creator  of what has been around for 10 s of milenia. .

𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

Quote from: EJA on Jan 03, 2022, 01:44:58 PM
David being THE creator of the Alien is a stupid idea.

It's a great twist actually. No-one saw it coming. Covenant would be a bit flat otherwise, no?

And just because you and many others on here don't like it doesn't mean it's technically a stupid idea. In fact, it appears the only people who seem to find issue with the idea are longtime fans of the franchise with pre-conceived ideas about the Alien's origin. It was never an issue in the reviews of professional critics.

Kradan

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 03, 2022, 05:51:24 PM
It's a great twist actually. No-one saw it coming. Covenant would be a bit flat otherwise, no?

Professor Kradanovich approves

David Weyland

David Weyland

#10
I think it was a great idea to make David the creator of the Xenos as we know them from the main trilogy.

It marries into Giger's bio mech vision and helps to lay the path of Ash's motivations and what I like to think is actually an ignorance of Weyland Yutani's human employees of events rather than a nasty conspiracy protected for profit. Sure, Burke tried but he was just an opportunist trying to save his ass.
I find it a more scary proposition that the event of the Nostromo was directed by David etc without anybody human actually knowing thus making the Inquest board in Aliens believable at not being receptive to Ripley's account of what happened.

It is actually more reductive to have the Xenos come from a Xenomorph Prime or whatever. It's shallower and offers nothing new.

The idea of keeping it all a mystery is also pointless as the point of a prequel story is to expand the backstory or the origins of.

There is plenty else going on with the Engineers and the black goo if people had a little patience to marry into a lovecraftian Space jockey path.

Making David the creator or the catalyst to bringing the Perfect Organism to life was the right decision and I would metaphorically die on a hill for it


Immortan Jonesy

About 10 years ago, no one would have thought that the Alien was created by Ash's kind. So aye, it's kinda the Mother of plot twists :laugh:

BlueMarsalis79

It's all said and done before.

Within the context of Alien Covenant I like the narrative.

Within the context of the original Alien it is laughable.

Voodoo Magic

I loathe the idea of David creating the Alien, yet loved Hick's video... such confusing times.

Show of hands: Other than me, how many guiltily want to see David turn out to be the Space Jockey just for Hick's to lose his sh*t?  ;D

Kradan

I don't believe they'll do it but to see Hicks lose his shit over that would be ... glorious  :D

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