(https://i.ibb.co/Jt0BTGM/predators-berserker-vs-classic.webp) (https://ibb.co/KhR0gf3) I am curious why fans or anyone calls them Super Predators? I have always wondered. They aren't super, they are not any better, bigger, stronger, faster or better fighters then the standard predator. I always watched the movie and thought Robert Rodriguez was laying out that they were bad bloods fairly clearly, even referencing a blood feud in the film.
He understood i am certain that most casual viewers would not understand the bad blood reference nor could a character in the film say that term in any natural way. So if I'm wrong do indeed tell me, I just assumed they were bad bloods and not "super" predators all this time. Basically "super predator" just sounds a little misplaced as a name for these particular predators.
There was a reference to them as that early on, I think before the film came out, and it stuck.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2024, 11:58:26 AMThere was a reference to them as that early on, I think before the film came out, and it stuck.
Ah I see, it makes sense. So as a prominent member of this community, what is your opinion? Do you think these predators are bad bloods or some subspecies?
Quote from: (Bad Blood) on Jan 10, 2024, 12:55:06 PMAh I see, it makes sense. So as a prominent member of this community, what is your opinion? Do you think these predators are bad bloods or some subspecies?
I'm not Sil but I don't think he would mind if I answered for him in regards to this question.
If we go by the Word of God trope, according to interviews from Rodriguez and Antal, the Super Predators ARE in fact, Bad Bloods. Rodriguez and Antal have said that these Predators are outcasts and they've been sent to the planet as a means of punishment by Predator society.
However.... the movie and expanded universe material seems to... not necessarily adhere to that.
Is "Super Predator" ever said in the movie?
I consider them to be another subspecies (just look at the face), who happen to be at war with the "traditional Yautja". So the traditional Yautja might consider them to be Bad Bloods, but the "Super Predators" don't much care about it.
Quote from: (Bad Blood) on Jan 10, 2024, 12:55:06 PMQuote from: SiL on Jan 10, 2024, 11:58:26 AMThere was a reference to them as that early on, I think before the film came out, and it stuck.
Ah I see, it makes sense. So as a prominent member of this community, what is your opinion? Do you think these predators are bad bloods or some subspecies?
Subspecies is what the film says. Compares them as wolves to dogs.
Quote from: Wweyland on Jan 13, 2024, 10:46:18 AMIs "Super Predator" ever said in the movie?
I consider them to be another subspecies (just look at the face), who happen to be at war with the "traditional Yautja". So the traditional Yautja might consider them to be Bad Bloods, but the "Super Predators" don't much care about it.
No, I think the differences that were pointed were just said by Noland I think? Said difference being akin to wolf and dogs or something.
The only fight we see between the Predators is Berserker fighting a weakened and wounded Jungle Hunter type Predator. So not a fair comparison in that scene.
I do enjoy Predators, but the "Bigger and Badder" Predator angle really started to go out of hand from here.
But to be fair, it already somewhat started in the first AvP.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 13, 2024, 11:00:05 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Jan 13, 2024, 10:46:18 AMIs "Super Predator" ever said in the movie?
I consider them to be another subspecies (just look at the face), who happen to be at war with the "traditional Yautja". So the traditional Yautja might consider them to be Bad Bloods, but the "Super Predators" don't much care about it.
No, I think the differences that were pointed were just said by Noland I think? Said difference being akin to wolf and dogs or something.
The only fight we see between the Predators is Berserker fighting a weakened and wounded Jungle Hunter type Predator. So not a fair comparison in that scene.
What it debatable now is that due to a main stream wounded JH Predator managing to hold their own against a Super Predator, does that mean the JH Predator is that skilled and determined OR the Super Predator is just that incompetent and thus foils the concept of a Super Predator.
Its this why I prefer the combat of one of the past scripts where the JH Predator's combat strategy is to fight Berserker long range due to knowing that it would be dominated up-close, which would have shown a much better understanding of proper character establishment AND a very interesting inverse of how humans fight Predators to now a Predator mimicking the same strats to fight a superior foe.
Of course I'll always remember about what Corporal Hicks said, something like "It's not really a Super Predator if it requires a job of 3 that one manages to do just fine in the past two films." They really didn't do much on presenting how the Predators are Super compared to main stream other than looking different.
The "super" predator resorted to using his plasma caster too.
And I can't remember the details for since it has been awhile, but it was a three vs one fight that got the JH predator captured in first place. It is shown in the prequel comic to Predators.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 18, 2024, 06:39:56 PMThe "super" predator resorted to using his plasma caster too.
And I can't remember the details for since it has been awhile, but it was a three vs one fight that got the JH predator captured in first place. It is shown in the prequel comic to Predators.
And it misses from a few yards away. Advanced targeting system my ass. Least in Prey they can convey dodging projectiles better via Taabe dodging bolt arrows. I know why they resorted to the theatrical cut of the fight as the mindset is no one wants to see smart and tension filled fights, just unga bonga big meatheads throwing a fistcuffs at each other. Could have had both but whatever.
And that lil motion comic was a fun thing to have. Loved that they went out of their way to make a interesting story though a fun medium. Just a shame they couldn't use that opportunity to show why they have this blood feud and how the mainstream Pred got there in the first place.
There is no Super Predator. It was a concept for an earlier version of the film that never materialized in the finished product. There's just a single line that makes it into the film comparing the two different types to Wolfs and dogs, and it's delivered from a character who is demonstrated to be quite insane and untrustworthy. They're nothing more than a different clan with different rules of conduct and hunting methods. I just refer to them as Berserker Predators.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 22, 2024, 09:07:05 AMThey're nothing more than a different clan with different rules of conduct and hunting methods. I just refer to them as Berserker Predators.
Came here to post this.
And distinctly different appearance.
The Lost Predators also had a very distinct differences with Jungle Hunter. But acknowledging that Predators has some bigger differences in terms of facial structure and (I think) feet, that can as easily be explained away by them being other other species of Predator without them having to be the originally envisioned genetically engineered "Super Predators". Which given the big ass radical changes in design we saw in Prey too, seems to be the way to head-canon these things now.
Only The Predator has actual genetic tinkering brought up in the narrative.
The Lost Predators we are on screen are just repainted of Jungle and City Hunter though.
The wolves and dogs line is from an unreliable narrator but it's clearly covering they're not exactly the same. It's not just a different clan.
Which, hey, space faring race, probably going to end up with some diversity after a while.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 22, 2024, 12:18:53 PMThe Lost Predators we are on screen are just repainted of Jungle and City Hunter though.
True, but very different facial marking, skin coloration and etc. City Hunter also has a different facial structure with the slope and the crown. But already we're seeing different appearances. Which I'd always personally put to other ethnicities of Predators.
QuoteThe wolves and dogs line is from an unreliable narrator but it's clearly covering they're not exactly the same. It's not just a different clan.
There's so little focus on it, and no other detail about it in the film. They aren't presented as "Super Predators" in the narrative. They're different in some fashion or another, I'm not arguing that. They can be another clan. Whether it's a clan of this other sub-species, ethnicity, etc. We only see the one unmasked, after all. But they are not "Super Predators."
Which is always my point. Whether they are another subspecies or not - that's not what I get stuck on. It's that they are not Super Predators as the concept was initially conceived.
The skull collectibles from both NECA and Sideshow illustrate that they have distinct and significant biological differences. Their skull structure is different, they have unique heads, feet, and dreadlock placements. They logically must be a sub-species, ala Feral being another type of sub-species.
(https://www.sideshow.com/cdn-cgi/image/height=850,quality=90,f=auto/https://www.sideshow.com/storage/product-images/400048/classic-predator-skull_predator_gallery_5ed037b48b487.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgqyUY1zLGOPGGsjyLply8j376sW05kbkgaxA7FovmZy9BfQWoaBMRp5oVkY5_qCwPi21pZ19hIpO2C5H1GPXoVOwyLHUHIH8Ves4VPASIswIBcvFGw-HOZAsftSd5HeYoqk98TAg/s1600/400062_press03-001.jpg)
Personally I've always made the comparison between Homo Sapian and Neanderthal. Both are part of the Hominidae family yet all the other early humanoid species died out. That apparently didn't happen with the Predators.
I'm not hung up on the naming thing personally, and I find the 'Berserker' and 'Super Predator' names to be interchangeable. But given their description in the scripts as these self experimented on, juiced up Predators with black blood... no the movie didn't follow that idea, thankfully. Though the next one sure did.
They were also referred to as a Super Predator clan in AVP Evolution, and I think they are referred to as that in the BTS materials of Predators post when that draft was. Those probably helped to contribute to the name sticking.
(https://www.geek-pride.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Screenshot_2013-03-14-16-35-20-e1363686992718.png)
Not sure if Neca is a reliable source there though, some of their bios regarding Predators was very over the top.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 23, 2024, 12:39:12 PMNot sure if Neca is a reliable source there though, some of their bios regarding Predators was very over the top.
Hence why I also included Sideshow. The skulls were designed by KNB EFX group who did the Predator effects for the film.
It's funny, I prefer hand-waving aesthetic differences in Predator designs as simply artistic choice, even to the point of ignoring clearly stated intent to the contrary.
But I'll hypothesise and fanwank for literally years about slight variations in Alien design.
I think you could say that the super predators are just artistic redesigns had they NOT included the OG pred in the film who clearly looks way different.
They aren't super, just a different sort of paint chip eating pred.
When I do go in for lore explanations, I claim that those bigger, uglier ones were just girls.
Prey really did make the thinking behind the Super Predators even more thoughtless when you see how the artist brings forth the biological lore of Feral's subspecies. Down from the thermal sensory organ on his head to a stronger bite force due to a bone based diet, we got nothing on what Mr.Black and his crew is or why other than the fact that they are just "Super".
Hell, compare the faces and you can clearly see one is more of a subspecies but the other looks more like a mutation. Feral looks biologically normal in part of what he is but Mr. Black has lots of skin bursting due to muscles forcing its way out from it's own skin. Facial structure radically changed and muscles overdeveloped in some areas. Despite trying to go for "dogs and wolves" comparison, Feral fits the bill a whole lot more than Mr. Black.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZgv6vwXkAIOVp4.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/d6/cd/a7/d6cda77cfca2942260a4651bb2482ee8.jpg)
Predators might feel like a fanfilm, but I can say I do look at them, and say it is real though.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 22, 2024, 11:40:28 AMAnd distinctly different appearance.
we realy dont know what the other ones faces looked like I assume the same as berserker, that's what the toys and stuff did. I think they are all just different races of the same species. Like the original is from a jungle environment I think farrel is meant to be from a dry desert region or maybe they have eugenic programs and they are selectively bred for different purposes.