Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 29, 2019, 05:35:17 PM
GW has gotten a lot better about rules balance since, like, 2017 with 8th edition.
LOL. Is that why there's constant updates, erratas and FAQs (many of which you need to pay for), wildly broken armies still being released, others in desperate need of patching getting precisely dick, and over-all an edition that favours boring, static, buff-aura formations and exploiting the command point system at list building? 8th might be better than 6/7th were, but balanced it is not. If anything, it's the easiest edition to accidentally end up with two seriously mismatched armies that kill fun for one or both parties, thanks to how lethal the shooting phase is in 8th and all the free buffs some armies get that others have nothing to counter.
QuoteAlso a lot of their models are expensive but the reasoning is that you're paying for not only the work that went into making it, but also the hobby enjoyment time you're going to get out of building and painting it - presumably you're going to spend a lot more time on an individual "hero" character or elite unit as opposed to, say, a box of 10 rank-and-file troops. It's kind of like the logic behind buying a video game or a movie ticket - it isn't just about the tangible object you get, it's about the enjoyment you get out of interacting with it.
Bit of a cop out, considering the prices other companies can offer similar wares for, but it's not the per-unit price I was actually attacking, it's the sheer quantity you need to have a "real" army. For example, a game like Kill Team is very affordable because you're likely to only buy one or two boxes of troops and maybe a hero. Trying to go for the standard 2000pts in 40k proper, you're looking at 10+ troop sets, 5-10 vehicles/monsters, multiple heroes. It gets ridiculous fast.
QuoteGranted that means less if you don't particularly like painting stuff, but I understand the logic behind it.
I mostly paint stuff, because the game has IMO been essentially unplayable (or at least totally joyless) for about ten years and my buddies who I still play 3e with live in another part of the country.
QuoteAs for getting kids involved, I'm of two minds about it. I think the game can be fun on different levels for certain kids depending on age/attention span/interests, and the starter boxes for the game if you just want to slap together a bunch of push-fit models that don't require glue or paint and just go roll some dice are really cheap, and even some of the starter paint/brush/tool sets are very reasonably priced considering what you get.
I think if the kids are already enjoying X-wing and AvP (one a game with far better balance than basically any GW product, with a much smaller model count, the other a "dead" game that he's already fully invested in for models), I'd advise him to just stick to those for as long as possible.
QuoteIt's when you start getting more minis and paints that the price starts adding up, and that's when it starts pricing itself out of a kids' budget and becomes a bitter pill for parents to swallow.
And GW is pretty great at encouraging that idea of "needing" another unit or hero on a regular basis.
QuoteThe "time consuming" element is kind of subjective - I actually prefer painting and building the stuff more than actually playing the game, so that never feels like "wasted" time. And when I do get around to playing games, I've got a cool looking army to show off.
100% agreed.
QuoteI do buy GW products, but mostly it's to support the local GW store that I like a lot that's really close to my work. The managers are awesome and don't just feel like they're trying to sell me stuff non-stop, the crowd that hangs out and plays there are generally pretty great, it's like 2 blocks from my work, and they've all around been really helpful with supporting my interest in the hobby. Could I get cheaper paints (or even cheaper GW minis) if I went elsewhere? Yeah sure, but I feel I'm getting enough value out of the store and the people who work there to warrant paying a bit of a premium.
It's also not like I'm dumping hundreds of dollars into them every time I go to the shop, I've got a big backlog of minis so I'm mostly just buying the occasional paints or something.
Fair enough. But do consider that their business model is primarily (and they'll admit as much) selling eye-wateringly expensive initial buy-ins to the parents of younger kids who have gotten hyped about the game, and they're pretty skilled at it.
I also buy a lot of GW product, and much of it is NiB from actual retailers since I prefer to work from a fresh sprue than fix someones shit job, and I (mostly) don't mind paying for it. The NZ prices do make that sting though, so my retailers are frequently overseas because the shipping is cheaper than the arbitrary markup GW imposes here.
