Neill Blomkamp's (cancelled?) Alien 5 project

Started by Jenga, Jan 02, 2015, 02:42:40 AM

Author
Neill Blomkamp's (cancelled?) Alien 5 project (Read 149,308 times)

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Jan 07, 2015, 11:49:51 PM
I'd prefer a reboot instead of them giving the franchise the TOHO Godzilla treatment.

You mean you DON'T like the idea of having two main different continuities/timelines which Toho has done for Godzilla, where neither canon is negated for Alien?

Visceral_Mass

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 07, 2015, 11:54:31 PM
Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Jan 07, 2015, 11:49:51 PM
I'd prefer a reboot instead of them giving the franchise the TOHO Godzilla treatment.

You mean you DON'T like the idea of having two main different continuities/timelines which Toho has done for Godzilla, where neither canon is negated for Alien?

LOL, you think there is only two?

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Jan 08, 2015, 12:09:53 AM
LOL, you think there is only two?

Actually, there are maybe seven or eight Godzilla timelines but what's wrong with Alien having multiple timelines/alternate universes that don't interact with each other as well?

Visceral_Mass

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 08, 2015, 12:12:46 AM
Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Jan 08, 2015, 12:09:53 AM
LOL, you think there is only two?

Actually, there are maybe seven or eight Godzilla timelines but what's wrong with Alien having multiple timelines/alternate universes that don't interact with each other as well?

It starts to dilute the franchise.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Jan 08, 2015, 12:40:32 AM
It starts to dilute the franchise.

I disagree, it just means more options for fans to choose from. If they don't like how a storyline progressed in one timeline, they have the option of following another. If you ask me, multiple timelines/alternate universes (as long as they don't) intersect with each other is the best thing the franchise could have.

Then again, your reboot proposal already does that in a sense. Shit, Robocop now has FOUR timelines because of the reboot (I'm counting the TV series and TV movies, and Animated series). The Nightmare on Elm Street series has three timelines, the original, New Nightmare, and the reboot. Halloween has three timelines, Halloween to Halloween 6, and Halloween to Resurrection and then Rob Zombie's reboot.

And hell, if you want to get technical.. we already have two timelines with AVP and Prometheus.

Visceral_Mass

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 08, 2015, 12:45:54 AM
Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Jan 08, 2015, 12:40:32 AM
It starts to dilute the franchise.

I disagree, it just means more options for fans to choose from. If they don't like how a storyline progressed in one timeline, they have the option of following another. If you ask me, multiple timelines/alternate universes (as long as they don't) intersect with each other is the best thing the franchise could have.

Then again, your reboot proposal already does that in a sense. Shit, Robocop now has FOUR timelines because of the reboot (I'm counting the TV series and TV movies, and Animated series). The Nightmare on Elm Street series has three timelines, the original, New Nightmare, and the reboot. Halloween has three timelines, Halloween to Halloween 6, and Halloween to Resurrection and then Rob Zombie's reboot.

And hell, if you want to get technical.. we already have two timelines with AVP and Prometheus.

More options isn't always a good thing, you may win over some fans with one version only to lose some with a different version. That is what I mean by dilution. A company can't keep all "lines" going. Why do you think Marvel's movie business is so strong? I bet one of the reasons is the story synergy between the movies.

Vrastal

same universe new story, new people, new place.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Jan 08, 2015, 01:02:26 AM
More options isn't always a good thing, you may win over some fans with one version only to lose some with a different version.

And I don't agree that only one version is a good thing either, especially if it is constantly being retconned. If you have one thing, you may end up losing more fans from the franchise entirely than them going to another version.

Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Jan 08, 2015, 01:02:26 AM
A company can't keep all "lines" going.

And they don't have to.

But those alternate timelines/alternate universes can exist. I mean take Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the lore establishes there are alternate timelines/universes. The original source, the Mirage comics have stopped since Mirage Studios went defunct but it's still existing as far as the alternates are concerned. Most of the universes in that franchise stopped, but they are still active within the lore.

Same goes for Robocop.. The alternate timelines still exist, and while they aren't exactly finished or on-going, they exist within the multiverse/multi-timeline scope of things. They aren't retconned, they aren't erased from the lore. Same applies for Godzilla's Showa, Heisei and Millennium timelines.

Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Jan 08, 2015, 01:02:26 AM
Why do you think Marvel's movie business is so strong? I bet one of the reasons is the story synergy between the movies.

Marvel is going strong because it has such a strong following and the movies don't take themselves seriously. Also, considering that they are being supervised by Marvel themselves to ensure that they don't deviate from the original source material, and like have continuity checkers, is a main reason why they are strong. But the Marvel cinematic universe isn't exclusive to the Marvel Studios movies..

You still have the Spider-Man and X-Men movies.. they are cinematic universe but are not officially a part of the Marvel Studios cinematic universe lore due to licensing issues. Sure they are trying to get them in their films, but when that happens.. don't expect Andrew Garfield or Hugh Jackman or their movies continuities to be part of the lore and continuity of Marvel Studios' films.

Quote from: Nazrel on Jan 08, 2015, 01:07:13 AM
same universe new story, new people, new place.

Stand alone movies also work.

Visceral_Mass

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Jan 08, 2015, 01:20:03 AM
Stand alone movies also work.

The problem I have with the idea of standalone movies is the same problem I started having with the Dark Horse comic series. They became nothing more than how many different situations can we throw the xenomorph into? They started feeling boring and watered down and I am sure I wasn't the only one to feel this way since Dark Horse stopped making them as much as they use to at the time.

There needs to be something more to the films, something holding them together, and drawing us in, beside the creature, I bet Dark Horse knows this and that is why we got the connected story arc over the current Aliens and Predator comics.

Whatever they do, retcon/reboot/move forward, Fox needs to weave a compelling story over several movies instead of giving us a series of connected "one-shots". That is the only way I can see the franchise turning itself around again.

I'm anxiously awaiting news on the Predator 4 movie we are getting and hoping it is a reboot of the series.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Jan 08, 2015, 01:51:33 AM
There needs to be something more to the films, something holding them together, and drawing us in, beside the creature, I bet Dark Horse knows this and that is why we got the connected story arc over the current Aliens and Predator comics.

I have.. some issues with the new comics which are being put out. Namely considering the idea that they more or less had essentially New 52'ed everything.. or perhaps more aptly put.. did what Disney did with the Star Wars EU. Also.. Now that the focus is Prometheus.. I don't like that they're trying to mix Predator and Prometheus. Two different things. It's not the AvP which I feel is the true AvP-- which was the core of the AvP franchise since the old comics started it all. But we're not talking about the comics.. we're talking about the movies.

Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Jan 08, 2015, 01:51:33 AM
I'm anxiously awaiting news on the Predator 4 movie we are getting and hoping it is a reboot of the series.

As long as it ignores PREDATORS, and doesn't inject something stupid on it's own, I'll be fine with it. I am cautiously optimistic.. After all, Shane is involved and so is Fred Dekker, who did Night of the Creeps and Monster Squad, movies I love.. though Dekker is what has me cautious since he did Robocop 3, which killed his directing career.

Xenomorphine

Fox hasn't even been able to keep together the continuity it already has. I don't see them doing much better with several.

RakaiThwei

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jan 08, 2015, 03:01:15 AM
Fox hasn't even been able to keep together the continuity it already has.

I am more of a Predator fan but the recent retcons they've done for both franchise, and most notable Alien have somewhat pushed me away from the franchise. I suppose that's why I feel the resentment towards Fox and the choices they've made. More retcons would just push me away further and feel more resentment. I'm afraid I'll just stop enjoying something I was passionate about.

HuDaFuK

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jan 07, 2015, 10:13:58 PMCheaply killing off Hicks/Newt could also be said to be infantile. Their deaths served no purpose which keeping them in stasis (or jettisoned off to an unknown separate location) couldn't have also achieved.

It absolutely served a purpose. The entire point of Alien 3 was Ripley losing everything, yet again, to the Alien. If they were still alive somewhere that would totally negate that point.

As I said, you can love or hate the decision, but it was an integral part of what the third film was trying to do.

Russ

I think that we (the forum we) tend to look on Alien3 much more kindly because I would guess that most of us have seen the superior Assembly Cut.

Alien3 was really poorly received - Fincher has disowned it: even he hated the film (studio interference, getting told what to do, etc). But ultimately, the theatrical cut was - by and large - regarded as a bag of shit. Even if it made money (as we said before - have someone pissing against a wall and put "Alien" in the title and you've just made 30 million).

From the drawings, it's pretty clear that Blomkamp was going to retcon the franchise.

It's a strange one though - we discussed the "happy ending" earlier: does a happy ending work for Alien(s). Well, by and large (in my view, but that's purely subjective), but my thought is that ultimately, Ripley and Hick's fate may well be sealed (if the suicide bomb vest is anything to go by). So almost certainly Ripley and probably Hicks are marked to to die. If that's the case (and it may well not be, I'm just postulating based on the drawings), then why bother with a retcon at all?

I think simply because the way that the two characters were hand-waved out of Alien3 (to serve the plot) was pretty poorly handled. We get that the point of the film was to have the Alien take everything away - understood. However, it was a bad way of handling it after the success of Aliens - it just wasn't the way to go.

It's a bit like the next Superman film opening with him standing at Lois Lane's grave and Perry White saying "That plane crash was just awful." Yes, it opens the door for a Superman / Wonder Woman romance if that's what they wanted to do, but I'm not convinced that anyone would be satisfied by that - even if it served the plot. I'm just making that up to illustrate a point, by the way.

I can't honestly believe that anyone who went into the cinema having seen Alien3 came out thinking "that was the film I really wanted to see." Whatever its merits and flaws, it was not what the franchise needed at that time. I was so hyped for it (we saw Aliens every week in the Curzon - we were so regular they gave us all the merch when the run finally ended - standees, 10x8s, everything) and I came away reeling not quite sure what I'd seen. Only that I was underwhelmed.

The issue comes with "Ripley's Nightmare" or just ignoring the events of the last two movies (a la Superman Returns). "Ripely's Nightmare" isn't as daft as all that after what we saw in Prometheus... dreams are a big part of Hypersleep it would seem. All it would take would be scientists standing over the cryotube with grainy images of the past two movies flashing on the screen as in the dream sequence in Ridders movie. We think its silly - but, given what happened in Prometheus, "Ripley's Nightmare" is actually keeping with the "science" of the movies.

Clearly, these drawings were done before all that - but now it actually works better as an explanation than having to serve it up and justify it in a retcon - as the device has been used before.

It's frustrating - I guess we'll never know what he intended to do - what the retcon method would be. I just don't think the events of A3 and A:R could be ignored like Superman III and IV - they'd have to do something with it. But "what?" remains the unanswered question.


HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#224
Quote from: Russ on Jan 08, 2015, 09:48:36 AMAlien3 was really poorly received

...in America. It did quite well in Europe.

Quote from: Russ on Jan 08, 2015, 09:48:36 AM"Ripely's Nightmare" isn't as daft as all that after what we saw in Prometheus... dreams are a big part of Hypersleep it would seem.

It is daft, because it's a really cheap way of undoing a problem that could be left well alone. It's not like they need to bring Hicks back to make more Alien movies. Or as I said, just ignoring it would be preferable to such a cheesy plot device.

AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Patreon RSS Feed
Contact: General Queries | Submit News