Marvel's First Alien Series Announced!

Started by Kailem, Dec 07, 2020, 07:22:32 PM

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Marvel's First Alien Series Announced! (Read 273,532 times)

HuDaFuK

The trouble with passing it off as Perez just not knowing is they wouldn't have gone to so much effort to get the Aliens back if they were hanging about somewhere else, as the EU implies. Indeed, according to the old EU, they're all over the place.

Given all the trouble the USM had getting the Queen, you have to say it was their last resort. Which basically backs up when Perez says.

SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#1186
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 30, 2021, 09:06:29 AM
The trouble with passing it off as Perez just not knowing is they wouldn't have gone to so much effort to get the Aliens back if they were hanging about somewhere else, as the EU implies. Indeed, according to the old EU, they're all over the place.

Given all the trouble the USM had getting the Queen, you have to say it was their last resort. Which basically backs up when Perez says.

Old EU? Which media specifically? Do you mean MJF's Original Sin and the AvPvT miniseries?
Why is modern day Iran going through so much effort to build a nuclear weapon if nukes are indeed all over the place? In 1986 we had over 70,000 hanging around on this planet alone, nowadays we're down to around a measly 15,000 or so. Thanks, Hippies.

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#1187
Quote from: SpaceKase on Mar 30, 2021, 10:02:58 AMOld EU? Which media specifically? Do you mean MJF's Original Sin and the AvPvT miniseries?

I mean the pre-Out of the Shadows stuff, which is when things were apparently reset.

I know the recent Titan and Dark Horse stuff has had Aliens increasingly popping up on numerous worlds, but they were even more prolific in the old Dark Horse stories. According to all those comics and novels, not only were the Aliens are all over the place but mankind often had ready access to them. Even if we assume humanity somehow completely forgot about all those encounters just because some computer records got deleted (lol), the Aliens themselves are still liberally distributed throughout the galaxy. So why would the USM need to fanny about cloning Ripley if that were true? (Answer: They wouldn't. Ergo Perez isn't just mistaken.)

The big deletion thing also falls down when you consider the fact that the USM apparently don't know about countless other Alien incidents in the interim, but do know that a woman named Ellen Ripley destroyed one on Fury 161.

Quote from: SpaceKase on Mar 30, 2021, 10:02:58 AMWhy is modern day Iran going through so much effort to build a nuclear weapon if nukes are indeed all over the place? In 1986 we had over 70,000 hanging around on this planet alone, nowadays we're down to around a measly 15,000 or so. Thanks, Hippies.

Because nukes are kept in hardened, guarded facilities. They're not just roaming free in a field somewhere for Iran to pick up.

Add to which Iran are merely trying to duplicate existing, proven technology. They're not pioneering groundbreaking science with a slim chance of success and substantial probability of failure just on the off chance they might succeed in their goals.

And we still know about the existence of the nukes.

Whiskeybrewer

Maybe a workaround is that many USM squads and other groups were killed/slaughtered trying to get living samples of the Xenomorph's.

With that much failure, they had to go for the wildest swing they could and use this old as all hell sample.

Even though that worked, they were still taken out by what they'd got

Hence Perez's line of "For all intensive purposes, she succeeded"

Dachande

Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Mar 30, 2021, 11:00:28 AM
Maybe a workaround is that many USM squads and other groups were killed/slaughtered trying to get living samples of the Xenomorph's.

With that much failure, they had to go for the wildest swing they could and use this old as all hell sample.

Even though that worked, they were still taken out by what they'd got

Hence Perez's line of "For all intensive purposes, she succeeded"

for all intents and purposes

SM

SM

#1190
If both Perez and Call knew about Ripley and the Aliens the deletion wasn't terribly big.

Drukathi

Damn, Ripley - how dare you?! You are responsible for the fact that the general Perez and his subordinates have no choice!

Voodoo Magic


SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#1193
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 30, 2021, 10:12:55 AM
Quote from: SpaceKase on Mar 30, 2021, 10:02:58 AMOld EU? Which media specifically? Do you mean MJF's Original Sin and the AvPvT miniseries?

I mean the pre-Out of the Shadows stuff, which is when things were apparently reset.

I know the recent Titan and Dark Horse stuff has had Aliens increasingly popping up on numerous worlds, but they were even more prolific in the old Dark Horse stories. According to all those comics and novels, not only were the Aliens are all over the place but mankind often had ready access to them. Even if we assume humanity somehow completely forgot about all those encounters just because some computer records got deleted (lol), the Aliens themselves are still liberally distributed throughout the galaxy. So why would the USM need to fanny about cloning Ripley if that were true? (Answer: They wouldn't. Ergo Perez isn't just mistaken.)

The big deletion thing also falls down when you consider the fact that the USM apparently don't know about countless other Alien incidents in the interim, but do know that a woman named Ellen Ripley destroyed one on Fury 161.

Quote from: SpaceKase on Mar 30, 2021, 10:02:58 AMWhy is modern day Iran going through so much effort to build a nuclear weapon if nukes are indeed all over the place? In 1986 we had over 70,000 hanging around on this planet alone, nowadays we're down to around a measly 15,000 or so. Thanks, Hippies.

Because nukes are kept in hardened, guarded facilities. They're not just roaming free in a field somewhere for Iran to pick up.

Add to which Iran are merely trying to duplicate existing, proven technology. They're not pioneering groundbreaking science with a slim chance of success and substantial probability of failure just on the off chance they might succeed in their goals.

And we still know about the existence of the nukes.

Wow, you seem pretty passionate about this, it'll take a little bit to address all these points, but I guess the more important question would be, what in your opinion would be a plausible explanation for any post Alien3 EU material to exist? It sounds like, in your opinion, this is something that's impossible to reconcile and therefore no stories can exist.

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#1194
I wouldn't say I'm passionate.

I just think the concept of the big deletion is a stupid solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. I don't see any need to try and shoe-horn the world of the comics into that of the films because, as Alien 3 and Resurrection have shown, it's fundamentally futile - the minute they bring out a new movie that changes things you're back to square one with trying to force everything to make sense. You're better off just forgetting about it and letting the EU be it's own thing imo.

Besides, the EU has enough trouble not contradicting itself, let alone the films on which it's based.

Immortan Jonesy

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 30, 2021, 04:27:27 PM
as Alien 3 and Resurrection have shown, it's fundamentally futile - the minute they bring out a new movie that changes things you're back to square one with trying to force everything to make sense. You're better off just forgetting about it and letting the EU be it's own thing imo.

Besides, the EU has enough trouble not contradicting itself, let alone the films on which it's based.

People who have only one continuity disagree with that.

Engineer

Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 30, 2021, 04:27:27 PM
I wouldn't say I'm passionate.

I just think the concept of the big deletion is a stupid solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. I don't see any need to try and shoe-horn the world of the comics into that of the films because, as Alien 3 and Resurrection have shown, it's fundamentally futile - the minute they bring out a new movie that changes things you're back to square one with trying to force everything to make sense. You're better off just forgetting about it and letting the EU be it's own thing imo.

Besides, the EU has enough trouble not contradicting itself, let alone the films on which it's based.

I agree.

I prefer to think of it as alternative canons. Like branches on a tree. Trying to fit it all into one continuity is messy and unrealistic IMO.

The big deletion was just as messy as the "wilks/Billie" fix...

SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#1197
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 30, 2021, 04:27:27 PM
I wouldn't say I'm passionate.

I just think the concept of the big deletion is a stupid solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. I don't see any need to try and shoe-horn the world of the comics into that of the films because, as Alien 3 and Resurrection have shown, it's fundamentally futile - the minute they bring out a new movie that changes things you're back to square one with trying to force everything to make sense. You're better off just forgetting about it and letting the EU be it's own thing imo.

Besides, the EU has enough trouble not contradicting itself, let alone the films on which it's based.

Don't count yourself out, you've written at length now so there's clearly some fire in that belly, I'm just trying to piece it all apart into smaller bits so I can more clearly understand where you're coming from.

Again, the Big Deletion is AvP franchise, not Aliens franchise. I'm not entirely certain what you're arguing, so I'm not quite sure how to respond.

This thread is about the newest piece of EU material, are you simply saying that EU material can't, in your opinion, exist and therefore there's no point in discussing them in threads such as this? Isn't the entire point of licensed EU material to have fun and shoe-horn more stories into the universe(s) created by the films? Has anyone in this thread tried to claim the EU does or should take precedence over films?



Quote from: Engineer on Mar 30, 2021, 05:16:55 PM

I prefer to think of it as alternative canons. Like branches on a tree. Trying to fit it all into one continuity is messy and unrealistic IMO.

The big deletion was just as messy as the "wilks/Billie" fix...

None of this is realistic, it's all just a matter of degrees and what people personally like and dislike, it can be as messy or as elegant as one chooses to make it, but IMO reality is typically much messier than fiction is. I'd contend that, if recent real world events have taught us nothing else, everyone carries around their own alternative canons about the world they walk around in everyday.

The Big Deletion in AvP is only as messy as you want it to be, but yes, in the Aliens franchise the "wilks/Billie" fix is a hot mess.

Engineer

Quote from: SpaceKase on Mar 30, 2021, 05:17:57 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 30, 2021, 04:27:27 PM
I wouldn't say I'm passionate.

I just think the concept of the big deletion is a stupid solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. I don't see any need to try and shoe-horn the world of the comics into that of the films because, as Alien 3 and Resurrection have shown, it's fundamentally futile - the minute they bring out a new movie that changes things you're back to square one with trying to force everything to make sense. You're better off just forgetting about it and letting the EU be it's own thing imo.

Besides, the EU has enough trouble not contradicting itself, let alone the films on which it's based.

Don't count yourself out, you've written at length now so there's clearly some fire in that belly, I'm just trying to piece it all apart into smaller bits so I can more clearly understand where you're coming from.

Again, the Big Deletion is AvP franchise, not Aliens franchise. I'm not entirely certain what you're arguing, so I'm not quite sure how to respond.

This thread is about the newest piece of EU material, are you simply saying that EU material can't, in your opinion, exist and therefore there's no point in discussing them in threads such as this? Isn't the entire point of licensed EU material to have fun and shoe-horn more stories into the universe(s) created by the films? Has anyone in this thread tried to claim the EU does or should take precedence over films?



Quote from: Engineer on Mar 30, 2021, 05:16:55 PM

I prefer to think of it as alternative canons. Like branches on a tree. Trying to fit it all into one continuity is messy and unrealistic IMO.

The big deletion was just as messy as the "wilks/Billie" fix...

None of this is realistic, it's all just a matter of degrees and what people personally like and dislike, it can be as messy or as elegant as one chooses to make it, but IMO reality is typically much messier than fiction is. I'd contend that, if recent real world events have taught us nothing else, everyone carries around their own alternative canons about the world they walk around in everyday.

The Big Deletion in AvP is only as messy as you want it to be, but yes, in the Aliens franchise the "wilks/Billie" fix is a hot mess.

Part of why the big deletion gets so messy is because it was a "fix" applied to when all 3 franchises were still considered one franchise. It was still sloppy even then imo, but now with all 3 being distinctly separate franchises, it causes a grey area... without resurrection, the big deletion isn't necessary, so even though the big deletion is only mentioned in an AVP comic, the concept is there because of an alien movie. So resurrection would kind of have to be both AVP and alien, existing in two separate franchises, and to us... ok that makes sense, it's not that hard to follow. But less familiar, causal fans or new fans are going to be confused out of their minds about what belongs in which franchises, and why.


PS. And that's only scratching the surface of it...

The_Nostromo_Files

While we're crossing franchises, could this have been more effective?

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