Prometheus Re-collated: a theory on the origins of the Engineers, Xenos, and us

Started by JungleHunter94, Jan 18, 2025, 04:05:52 PM

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Prometheus Re-collated: a theory on the origins of the Engineers, Xenos, and us (Read 1,163 times)

javablue

Quote from: SM on Jan 29, 2025, 12:56:49 AM
Quote from: javablue on Jan 29, 2025, 12:43:37 AM
Quote from: JungleHunter94 on Jan 18, 2025, 04:05:52 PM•    (I subscribe to the theory that Vickers, wanting to sabotage her unloving father's expedition and inherit the company, hired [the scientists] for that exact reason).

Poor theory. When Vickers says, "For those of you I hired personally, it's nice to see you again" in her short pre-landing introduction, she is seen looking to her left and nodding acknowledgment to characters seated there. The only character of any merit seated there is Jackson, the security guy. He's not a scientist. All the scientists are seated in front of her, and she pays them no heed.

And there are other reasons for overturning this theory, for example, if you subscribe to the belief that the moon they are about to land on is approximately 35 light years from Earth (which most people seem to) then Vickers will be away from Earth and the company for 70 odd years. Inheriting the company may be a bit difficult.

And sabotaging the mission could mean sabotaging her means of returning to Earth or even death. Which is, as I recall, exactly what happened.

Still you do have some interesting points. PM me...


It takes 28 months to get to LV-223.  If they spend a few months there then head back she'll be away for about 6 years or so.

What a surprise! So how do you arrive at that?


SiL

Quote from: javablue on Jan 29, 2025, 05:36:02 AMWhat a surprise! So how do you arrive at that?

David says how long the travel time is in the movie.

SM


SiL

However 28 months x 2 is 56 months; if she spent 4 months on the planet she's pretty much bang on 5 years, not 6.

javablue

Quote from: SiL on Jan 29, 2025, 08:46:09 AMHowever 28 months x 2 is 56 months; if she spent 4 months on the planet she's pretty much bang on 5 years, not 6.

We did this about 12 years but lets go around once more.

Distance

1. Non-diegetic source:  3.27 x 10 to the power of 14.  (35 light years)

The biggest question about this, is why is Ridley using a mathematical format that is meaningless to his audience?

2. Vickers:  Why would I fly myself half a billion miles from ... Earth.

This would put Vickers somewhere near Jupiter, so another contradiction. However, Lindelöf has said that this is legit - ie not a mistake.


Time

2.  Weyland:  I am recording this, 22 June, 2091. And if you're watching it ... I am long dead.

3.  David:  Two years, four months, 18 (19) days, 36 (12) hours, 15 minutes.

This is the most popular time frame mainly because David told us and we definitely don't trust him. It is also the most likely one to be wrong because it mentions a 36+ hour day which means that the Prometheus' last port of call was not Earth. And therefore all calculations based on Distance above are null and void. But Widley told us it was a mistake because the super professional Fassbender spilt his cornflakes that morning and had a bad day. And we believed him too.
 
4.  Fifield:  I've been asleep two years.

Probably ship time.


The three points above can be either Earth time (trip takes 35 years for those on Earth) or ship time (trip takes 2+ years for those onboard). This is because of the effects of time dilation. We can't tell which one it is because we don't know how fast the Prometheus can travel. I would prefer to choose ship time because more likely those on the ship would operate on this time. And the Prometheus may have other tricks up its sleeve which we don't know about.


Speed
These are the only time speed is mentioned (albeit indirectly) in the film (that I know of).

5.  JaneK: We need the holidays to show time is still moving.

This cryptic statement from Janek seems to be saying the spaceship is travelling at sol. Given time does not exist at the speed of light, no time would pass onboard the ship. What this means I have no idea.

6.  Janek: Warm up the ion propulsion.

Ion propulsion is contemporary technology and when powering a spaceship in space over these distances, it can, after a very slow build up, reach up to about 70% of sol. So was the case 12 years ago. Not sure where this fits - perhaps with Vickers and Jupiter.


Bottom line - we don't know.


SiL

Quote from: javablue on Jan 29, 2025, 01:05:18 PMTime

2.  Weyland:  I am recording this, 22 June, 2091. And if you're watching it ... I am long dead.

3.  David:  Two years, four months, 18 (19) days, 36 (12) hours, 15 minutes.

This is the most popular time frame mainly because David told us
 
There is also text plastered over the screen when we see the Prometheus flying through space that says the date is December 21, 2093.

Bottom line: we do know, because the film goes out of its way to repeatedly tell us that it's about two years to the ship's destination, both in diagetic and non-diagetic sources.


SM

Quote from: SiL on Jan 29, 2025, 08:46:09 AMHowever 28 months x 2 is 56 months; if she spent 4 months on the planet she's pretty much bang on 5 years, not 6.

Dude I was just doing it in my head.

Quote from: 426Buddy on Jan 29, 2025, 02:11:41 PMFfs  ::)

Indeed.

Guess old mate's been wrong for 12 years.

javablue

Quote from: SiL on Jan 29, 2025, 01:14:58 PMBottom line: we do know, because the film goes out of its way to repeatedly tell us that it's about two years to the ship's destination, both in diagetic and non-diagetic sources.

Ok. I can see where you and SM are confused. You probably haven't factored in time dilation (I did mention it but perhaps you missed it). Basically, it works like this: if you're on a fast moving spaceship, those onboard will experience time differently from those in a more stationary situation. For those on Prometheus, time will move more slowly (this is called ship time) than for those back on Earth (called Earth time).

So those onboard Prometheus as it travelled the 35 light years between Earth and the moon at close to the speed of light, only about 2.5 years of time would have passed. Much less than those waiting on Earth, however, who would experience time passing as it normally did - in this case 35 years. So if Vickers was to return to Earth, 70 years of time would have passed,  and she would possibly find the company had moved on.

So I never disagreed with you on the 2 years travel time, I just saw it as ship time.

Anyhow, I'm no expert - just a sci-fi fan - so maybe you could junior Google the topic for a more suitable explanation.

Sorry Lloyd and Harry (or whatever your names are) but no further correspondence will be entered into on this subject.

SM

And as we crest Mt Stupid, time dilation isn't a thing in Alien.  If it did Newt would be in her 40s by the time the marines got there, and Ripley couldn't have made promises about being home for her daughters 11th birthday.

QuoteAnyhow, I'm no expert

This, however, is correct.

SiL

SiL

#26
Quote from: javablue on Jan 30, 2025, 08:57:23 AMOk. I can see where you and SM are confused. You probably haven't factored in time dilation (I did mention it but perhaps you missed it).
Hi!

First, take your condescension and take a hike.

Secondly, the films have clearly never cared about time dilation. It's not a factor in these works of fiction.

Prometheus is unambiguous: the trip is a little over 2 years.

SM

Lucky it's your birthday and he caught you in a good mood.

SiL

Quote from: SM on Jan 30, 2025, 09:58:59 AMLucky it's your birthday and he caught you in a good mood.
I'm in a fantastic mood, which is why I'm in no mood to be talked down to by someone so hopelessly wrong.


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