The End of Alien and Predator Movies?

Started by chrisr232007, May 29, 2012, 05:14:29 PM

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The End of Alien and Predator Movies? (Read 12,137 times)

Predaker

Predaker

#105
Quote from: Negatronix on May 31, 2012, 12:30:06 AM
Quote from: Valaquen on May 29, 2012, 06:42:44 PM
Quote from: Negatronix on May 29, 2012, 06:25:04 PM
I think that there is a tremendous opportunity for RS to undo the bastardization that JC did to the Alien species in Aliens, which pretty much guaranteed crap Alien movies for ever after.. The perfect organism was turned into a giant cricket and lives in a bug hive.. Jesus. That was never even close to what was set up in Alien with the SJ and the derelict.
Well, you've clearly done your research into the first film... Giger even called the egg silo in Alien a "termite nest," whilst Scott called the Alien a "biomechanoid insect". Pretty much everyone involved in Alien loved or appreciated the sequel, so no, nothing's getting 'undone'.

There is a big difference between an artist describing a piece of art as inspired by something or similar, and doing what JC did. Cameron even wrote an apology to Giger with big regrets of not involving him, and letting his ego get in the way. Sorry, Ive studiedGiger to death, and his Alien may have been desribed as living like a termite, but that is far from the alien .. Non-earth type lifeform they set out to create. The nest by the way was inspired by a moths cocoon and how the larvae changes.

While Aliens is an entertaining sequel, it strayed far from giger look of the nest, and the xenos were just waaaay dumbed down compared to Kanes son. In fact, not once while watching Aliens did I ever think.. Wow.! That is a mix of two species. Also, the queen designed by giger should have been used if you really got to have one. To me, the queen is what really bastardized the perfet organism.. I wonder why RS decided not to use it... Maybe its more Alien.
I respectfully disagree. :)

I think what they did with the queen was great, and it did not retcon the egg morphing concept. Also the sequel ALIENS showed how deadly they are against a group of trained and armed marines. The first movie had the Alien against a smaller crew of civilians with no real weapons or combat training, and even then Ripley managed to defeat it in the end.


BTW, if the Aliens were meant to be invulnerable to such and such, then they wouldn't need acid for blood.  ;)

Much love fellow fans!

Valaquen

Valaquen

#106
Quote from: Negatronix on May 31, 2012, 12:30:06 AM
There is a big difference between an artist describing a piece of art as inspired by something or similar and doing what JC did.
Not inspired by - based directly on. When it came to O'Bannon's conceptualising of it, Ron Cobb explained: "[T]hat was the core of the idea that Dan had about the [chestburster scene], he got that from the paralysing wasp." O'Bannon himself said: "I also patterned the Alien's life cycle on real-life parasites. A recent book on parasitology, Carl Zimmer's Parasite Rex (2001) acknowledges this ... [] Zimmer understands the core psychological significance of ALIEN: 'When an alien bursts out of a movie actor's chest, it bursts through our pretenses to be more than brilliant creatures. It is nature itself that is bursting through, and it terrifies us.''" O'Bannon was very, very much relying on terrestrial fears.

Ridley says, in 1999: "The whole notion of this [creature] was taken off a certain kind of insect that will find a host, lay its eggs, and then in that host –which could be another insect, a grub preferably- it will bury its eggs, and then of course the eggs will grow and consume the host. So that's the logic of it all. Probably what makes a lot of nature go around." He told journalist Danny Peary in 1984: "'What gave us the coccoon concept was that insects will utilise others' bodies to be the host of their eggs." He was pretty clear on the Alien's life-goal: "The Alien life form lived to reproduce." Here's what he says on its 'sexuality': "There are insects like that [androgynous, asexual], so we based that on a little bit of good old Mother Nature."

O'Bannon pal, executive producer, and co-story credited Ron Shusett says: "People have read all kinds of things into it that we didn't intend, not even subconsciously. But there was one thing we did do. It was our idea that it would be the life-cycle of an insect. ... We thought people might pick up on it and say, 'Yeah, an alien life-cycle can be like an insect life-cycle.'" (here's what he says about the excision of the egg morphing scene: "it's good we all came to the same conclusion, because we could have made a terrible mistake: Oh, look at that great idea we had, where he says, 'Kill me!' and he's growing into the egg!" - here's what Giger told Total Film about it: "It really didn't fit with the rest of the film. It used this strange yellow light that was a different colour to the rest of the film. I didn't feel that the sequence was as horrifying as many people believe.")

Giger's two quotes on the silo being akin to a termite nest: "[W]e decided it would be a good idea to have these [Alien] eggs inside the derelict like termites inside the walls of a house," and "I thought we could place the egg silo under the ship, a bit like termites do."

This is why you won't see any reversal of the Queen: it's in tune with what the original filmmakers were doing.

QuoteCameron even wrote an apology to Giger with big regrets of not involving him
The letter explained why Giger was not hired.

Quoteand letting his ego get in the way.
Uh, no.

QuoteWhile Aliens is an entertaining sequel, it strayed far from giger look of the nest, and the xenos were just waaaay dumbed down compared to Kanes son. In fact, not once while watching Aliens did I ever think.. Wow.! That is a mix of two species. Also, the queen designed by giger should have been used if you really got to have one. To me, the queen is what really bastardized the perfet organism.. I wonder why RS decided not to use it... Maybe its more Alien.
Not that Giger cared: "When Aliens came out I questioned the change in tone and pacing from the original. It was an unexpected suprise to me, as it was for everyone. When I was abe to to put aside my personal disappointment in not having been asked to work on it, I soon realised that it was the change from the first film which made it an excellent and original movie, not another predictable sequel. It is a movie I've enjoyed more and more with every viewing and I consider it among the best action films ever made. And when I heard James Cameron himself designed the Alien Queen I was even more impressed by the talents of this versatile director."

As for intelligence, the Aliens in the sequel routinely root out the Marines through sabotage (Xenomorphine will likely come in and list the feats they pull off). I think you're unhappy that some died in the process. Kane's Son was scripted to be nigh-on hypnotised by a light/siren, preceding his tail being cut off by a closing door. In the actual film he screams in pain/fear when sprayed by hot air. He was an animal. That was the intent. The filmmakers have routinely pointed this out. Scott even expressed bemusement when it was suggested to him that the Alien knowingly stowed away on the Narcissus to antagonise Ripley. It's pure invention on the audience's part.

Xenomorphine

If anyone's interested in viewing the letter:

http://www.hrgiger.com/james_cameron.htm

I'm always confused about why there's an outcry from some over Giger not being hired for it. He's a designer. The only thing left for Giger to have been involved in, would have been in designing the Queen - and Cameron had already done that. There wouldn't have been anything else for Giger to have done.

There are also quotes from Stan Winston's team about how much meticulous attention to detail they paid in trying to recreate the original design. A lot about how they got sent the original suit and it was shipped to them in an awful, partially decomposed state (still reeking of sweat from being last worn). I seem to remember there was something about them finding bits of pasta had apparently been glued on it by the original film's production team, to try and make it look more strange?

All things considered, the Stan Winston guys performed miracles upon being given what was effectively a tattered mess!

Valaquen

Quote from: Xenomorphine on May 31, 2012, 01:34:58 AM
I'm always confused about why there's an outcry from some over Giger not being hired for it.
Trust me - Giger got over it. It's a shame others haven't.

escroto

Quote from: Negatronix on May 31, 2012, 12:30:06 AM
Quote from: Valaquen on May 29, 2012, 06:42:44 PM
Quote from: Negatronix on May 29, 2012, 06:25:04 PM
I think that there is a tremendous opportunity for RS to undo the bastardization that JC did to the Alien species in Aliens, which pretty much guaranteed crap Alien movies for ever after.. The perfect organism was turned into a giant cricket and lives in a bug hive.. Jesus. That was never even close to what was set up in Alien with the SJ and the derelict.
Well, you've clearly done your research into the first film... Giger even called the egg silo in Alien a "termite nest," whilst Scott called the Alien a "biomechanoid insect". Pretty much everyone involved in Alien loved or appreciated the sequel, so no, nothing's getting 'undone'.

There is a big difference between an artist describing a piece of art as inspired by something or similar, and doing what JC did. Cameron even wrote an apology to Giger with big regrets of not involving him, and letting his ego get in the way. Sorry, Ive studiedGiger to death, and his Alien may have been desribed as living like a termite, but that is far from the alien .. Non-earth type lifeform they set out to create. The nest by the way was inspired by a moths cocoon and how the larvae changes.

While Aliens is an entertaining sequel, it strayed far from giger look of the nest, and the xenos were just waaaay dumbed down compared to Kanes son. In fact, not once while watching Aliens did I ever think.. Wow.! That is a mix of two species. Also, the queen designed by giger should have been used if you really got to have one. To me, the queen is what really bastardized the perfet organism.. I wonder why RS decided not to use it... Maybe its more Alien.
Totally agree Negatronix. The first monster had absolutely nothing to do with what we saw next.

Some people will never get over It  :laugh:

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