Alien: Engineers Podcast - AvPGalaxy Podcast #33

Started by Corporal Hicks, Feb 29, 2016, 10:08:08 PM

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Alien: Engineers Podcast - AvPGalaxy Podcast #33 (Read 28,075 times)

426Buddy

426Buddy

#15
Great podcast fellas!

I would say that there is a film somewhere between this script and Prometheus that would have been incredible and scary. I think if you had cut the original xenos out, changed planets, and made it less busy the spaights draft would have been great.

As it is I feel Prometheus is heavily flawed and contains almost no dread or atmosphere, I find the soundtrack was more uplifting than not. Its confusing and overly vague, not mysterious.

Not to say there isn't things I enjoy about Prometheus, its just has so many problems.

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: Xeno-Dwarf on Mar 02, 2016, 01:26:47 AM
As vague as Prometheus was at times, I thought it did a really god job of feeling like a part of Alien, even though there weren't any Xenomorphs.

No disagreeing with you there. There was no doubting at all that Prometheus was a part of the Alien universe. You couldn't escape that fact!

QuoteThose creatures did seem cool, but the monster has never been the main thing that makes the Alien films truly scary or mysterious. It's always been about the atmosphere of the films, and the overall sense of dread or impending doom, which Prometheus nailed.

On a personal level I disagree with you there. For me it was the Aliens. They were the reason I had nightmares for so many years, they were what I was fascinated with.

I was also drawn in heavily by the mystery and intrigues of the Space Jockeys so I definitely understand the allure and appeal of any mysteries in Prometheus. However, for a film that was supposed to be there to be chockablocked with answers, it was a frustratingly vague film. Just my stance, anyway.

Quote from: 420Buddy on Mar 02, 2016, 01:45:09 AM
Great podcast fellas!

Thank you, kindly.  :)

QuoteI would say that there is a film somewhere between this script and Prometheus that would have been incredible and scary. I think if you had cut the original xenos out, changed planets, and made it less busy the spaights draft would have been great.

Exactly how I feel. I would love to see those earlier drafts (especially the one where they just find the Derelict, rather than pyramids. I wonder how differently that one plays out because I couldn't imagine them finding any terraforming technology within the ship. It'd seem more of a stretch.

QuoteAs it is I feel Prometheus is heavily flawed and contains almost no dread or atmosphere, I find the soundtrack was more uplifting than not. Its confusing and overly vague, not mysterious.

Not to say there isn't things I enjoy about Prometheus, its just has so many problems.

There's plenty of things I enjoy in Prometheus too. I just find it a very frustrating film to watch.

426Buddy

I think it bothers me a lot more now that I know Spaights script had already dealt with a lot of dumb story and character stuff in Prometheus. The finding of the star map and the general behavior of the scientists was great in the script, can't believe they changed it to what we ended up with.

It bothers me even more that they thought the black goo was a good idea. put it in a bottle and call it LPD -  Liquid Plot Device.

markweatherill

Just to point out conventional pronunciation is 'Nost-ROW-mo' not 'Nost-ROMM-o'
and 'Su-LAH-co' not 'SULACCO' ......just sayin' :)

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: 420Buddy on Mar 02, 2016, 01:30:14 PM
I think it bothers me a lot more now that I know Spaights script had already dealt with a lot of dumb story and character stuff in Prometheus. The finding of the star map and the general behavior of the scientists was great in the script, can't believe they changed it to what we ended up with.

Yeah. That's one of the more irritating points. Whilst I freely acknowledge that Lindelof fixed issues I had with Spaiht's work, conversely he made other points worse. They traded one script with issues (though I still stand by the opinion it was a better piece) for another script with issues.

Xenomorphine

Quote from: oduodu on Mar 01, 2016, 11:37:06 AM
Xenomorphine: you studied AI?

I did!

Was a part of a larger course, but AI was a specific section, yes. Back in the late nineties, although the basic principles still mostly apply.

chromhart

Hey I have the Alien 01 - Genesis script that you were asking for in the podcast. Hit me up and I'll send you a copy

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: chromhart on Mar 09, 2016, 07:01:02 AM
Hey I have the Alien 01 - Genesis script that you were asking for in the podcast. Hit me up and I'll send you a copy

Hey Chrom! I've sent you an email to the address in your profile. Thanks man, I appreciate you letting us know.

XenoHunter99

Hey Hicks,
I finally made it through the whole thing. Longer podcasts are fine, but they take a little longer to get through. Interruptions, double back to re-listen to the section I missed, that sort of thing. It's obvious you all put a lot of thought into the topic and the discussion. I agree the aliens were too easily defeated and there were some bits that needed smoothing. It was, of course, a mistake to let Lindelof near any of it.

In terms of android behavior, I like full evil android David. The idea that he "overcame his programming" doesn't necessarily mean what we think it means. He probably had an evolving AI. That's a common enough trope in SF. He's supposed to be a learning machine. Maybe he learned things that affected his worldview. Maybe he had soem logic errors in his subroutines  ;D Point is, we know androids in the Alien universe are not always completely reliable, and this one may have had more reason than we know to do the things he did in that draft.

I don't agree with the idea that Giger could have had a field day with the Spaihts script. Look, I'm a lifelong fan of Giger's work. But I doubt - seriously doubt - that Giger could have made a very a big contribution to the project. Maybe he could have done something, but I think the Giger who made the works that affected so many people sort of went away by the mid nineties. Even the work he did for Alien 3 was mostly small drawings. There is really no sign that he was still doing a lot after that.That's probably a remarkably unpopular thing to say; but all anyone has to do is prove me wrong and I'll cheerfully recant it. Ironically, it's much like Vicker's line in the movie. "A king has his reign, then he dies." And Giger has no heir, literally or figuratively speaking. It's unfortunate. That said, I hope Scott's team will do a fine pastiche of Giger for Covenant and future movies.

Anyway, good job on the podcast.

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Mar 10, 2016, 12:35:36 PM
I finally made it through the whole thing. Longer podcasts are fine, but they take a little longer to get through. Interruptions, double back to re-listen to the section I missed, that sort of thing.

No worries mate. I completely understand. I'm exclusively a car journey listener myself so my podcast listening time is just about an hour every day. I appreciate you taking the time to listen.  :)

QuotePoint is, we know androids in the Alien universe are not always completely reliable, and this one may have had more reason than we know to do the things he did in that draft.

That's certainly a possibility and not one I'd argue against! Personally I just feel as if Fassbender and Lindelof greatly improved the character.

QuoteI don't agree with the idea that Giger could have had a field day with the Spaihts script. Look, I'm a lifelong fan of Giger's work. But I doubt - seriously doubt - that Giger could have made a very a big contribution to the project. Maybe he could have done something, but I think the Giger who made the works that affected so many people sort of went away by the mid nineties.

I understand where you're coming from. We all wanted Ridley Scott to come back and we got that. It didn't equate to an amazing film.

QuoteAnyway, good job on the podcast.

Thanks. :)

chromhart

hey, i can't find a scanned copy anymore but I'll scan mine for u over the weekend

Corporal Hicks

Quote from: chromhart on Mar 10, 2016, 11:16:27 PM
hey, i can't find a scanned copy anymore but I'll scan mine for u over the weekend

Fantastic! Thanks mate. I look forward to reading it!  :)

BeowolfSchaefer

Great show guy, thanks a lot!

Corporal Hicks


T Dog

Enjoyable listen as always!
I agree a combination of the two writers would have worked best but much more in favor of Spaights version with the pacing tidied up, the characters more developed and the aliens more lethal and less cannon foddery.

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