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Films/TV => Alien Prequel Series: Prometheus & Alien Covenant => Topic started by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 09:38:14 AM

Title: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 09:38:14 AM
I was rewatching the footage of David unleashing is Ozmadias payload on the Engineers. I originally thought the black goo only killed them like the Engineer at the beginning of Prometheus, but if you watch carefully Deacons or Xenomorphs burst out of certain male and female Engineers's chests.

Which makes me wonder. Is it possible that one became a Queen and laid the eggs David had in his cave? 
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Jul 25, 2021, 09:49:09 AM
No. The film is very explicit about David having creates the eggs and their payload himself, by design, after years of experimentation on the planet with the raw materials that he had at his disposal.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 25, 2021, 10:04:16 AM
Hybrid forms as David says in the film.

But likely closer to Neomorphs and Abominations than anything else.

Certainly no traditional Aliens.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 25, 2021, 06:17:41 PM
He said he would do the same to Daniels that he did to Shaw. This is pure personal speculation, but I suppose the queen must have been created in the Covenant sequel, by experimenting with her.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Huggs on Jul 25, 2021, 06:39:41 PM
It was implied during the end of Advent.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 08:15:33 PM
My theory, David releases the black goo on the Engineers, and one of them as seen in the scene has a chestburster Queen, who then lays the eggs in the cave. This still makes David the father of the species because he unleashed the goo on the Engineers, but reconciles the idea of a Queen which is in a majority of the films. 
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 25, 2021, 08:24:28 PM
No thank you honestly, and that does not work with David's Drawings that chronicles the creation of the Alien from a myriad of sources, and The Pathogen does not create the traditional Alien outright.

That idea's not supported by anything in the story itself.

Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 08:39:45 PM
Quote from: Trash Queen on Jul 25, 2021, 08:24:28 PM
No thank you honestly, and that does not work with David's Drawings that chronicles the creation of the Alien from a myriad of sources, and The Pathogen does not create the traditional Alien outright.

That idea's not supported by anything in the story itself.



The two are not mutually exclusive, David could be doing his experiments but also have reactions that surprised him; he said the goo reacted differently with organisms, and bred hybrid lifeforms. It is conceivable a Queen came forth from one of the Engineers, not a Queen quite at the level of Aliens, but a Queen that could lay eggs, a Deaconess.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 25, 2021, 08:50:10 PM
I prefer him getting the ovums from Doctor Elizabeth Shaw personally in terms of David's character and for dozens of other reasons within and without the film itself.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 08:54:09 PM
My issue is retconning the Queen out of it affects so much of the continuity. The result is fans split into Team Alien (Alien, Prometheus, Covenant) or Team Aliens (Aliens, Alien3, Ressurection, AVP, AVPR) when it comes to the Xeno-origins.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 25, 2021, 08:55:29 PM
Just because the Queen does not exist yet by the time of Alien Covenant does not mean it never will.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Jul 25, 2021, 08:58:52 PM
The only way I think it would really work now for David to not be the direct creator of the Aliens (while still maintaining continuity) would be for him to realize that he is part of some cycle that repeats over and over again through history, a la the situation in Raised by Wolves, and for him to have a profoundly negative reaction to such a revelation – at this point, David and the Aliens are so intrinsically intertwined that any film that treats the prequels as canon either has to wholeheartedly maintain David in the role of direct creator, or subvert it in service of David's story. To skirt around it in order to offend/disappoint the least amount of people would be a disservice.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 08:59:50 PM
Quote from: Trash Queen on Jul 25, 2021, 08:55:29 PM
Just because the Queen does not exist yet by the time of Alien Covenant does not mean it never will.

True, but it messes with the more easy to understand lifecycle, an egglayer who is the salvation of the species, and that any drone can become one.

I suppose though, if you go back to black goo there is infinite ways this "Perfect Lifeform" can come to be.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 25, 2021, 09:01:09 PM
I don't understand what you mean.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 09:02:01 PM
Quote from: Trash Queen on Jul 25, 2021, 09:01:09 PM
I don't understand what you mean.

Which part?
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Jul 25, 2021, 09:05:41 PM
Covenant ends with David going back to the drawing board to further "perfect" his organism. The design of the Aliens in Covenant reflect their unfinished state – they are purely biological, with none of the mechanical design elements of the original bio-mechanical incarnation from the original Alien. Seeing as Covenant shows David's creation to be unfinished, it is safe to say that the Queen is yet to come, and will be created at some point prior to Alien.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: [cancerblack] on Jul 25, 2021, 10:17:24 PM
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 08:59:50 PM
Quote from: Trash Queen on Jul 25, 2021, 08:55:29 PM
Just because the Queen does not exist yet by the time of Alien Covenant does not mean it never will.

True, but it messes with the more easy to understand lifecycle, an egglayer who is the salvation of the species, and that any drone can become one.

I suppose though, if you go back to black goo there is infinite ways this "Perfect Lifeform" can come to be.

You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding the film. Between his arrival on the planet and the arrival of the Covenant crew, David creates the first batch of eggs after a decade of Frankenstein-like experimentation.

There were no Aliens at all up til this point. At this stage there is no Queen at all yet either, and the Alien is still "unfinished" (lacking the biomechanical element).

The Advent short heavily implies that, similar to his experiments with Shaw, he will use Daniels reproductive organs (the difference being, Daniels is fertile). This would presumably result in the first Queen.

If the problem you're having is that various media (and in particular AvP) depicts Queens (and Aliens full stop, for that matter) at times well before Covenant occurs, you'll need to unpick those strands into separate, non-linked IPs because unless you're Xenomrph, they do not and will never work together narratively, and were not intended to by Scott, et al. 
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 25, 2021, 10:25:01 PM
This should work too. ;D

Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Jul 25, 2021, 08:58:52 PM
The only way I think it would really work now for David to not be the direct creator of the Aliens (while still maintaining continuity) would be for him to realize that he is part of some cycle that repeats over and over again through history, a la the situation in Raised by Wolves, and for him to have a profoundly negative reaction to such a revelation...

I think it's a perfect ending for his arc: a dark genius with god-compex and master of manipulation.

Sir Peter Weyland, a tech mogul who envisioned achieving immortality one day, created a synthetic immortal man, something that cannot be achieved biologically. Humanity alienates Victor Frankenstein's creation as an abomination against nature. According to Walter, David disturbed people for being too human, too idiosyncratic and always thinking for himself.

He is Weyland'son, but in a way God's Lucifer / Frankenstein's monster. Covenant is like a sequel in wich the monster becomes a creator by itself. His alienation from mankind has caused him to become a monster; unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality; and so his creation as well: a trully alien entity designed to destroy humans in their roots; their sexual reproduction.

Now, if David discovers that he was being a key entity in the cyclical resurrection of a terror as old as the Engineers, if not even older, I would pay to see his reaction!  ;D Or put another way; I trust Fassbender's acting skills. I bet it would be like a Shakespearean tragedy.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jul 25, 2021, 10:17:24 PM
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 08:59:50 PM
Quote from: Trash Queen on Jul 25, 2021, 08:55:29 PM
Just because the Queen does not exist yet by the time of Alien Covenant does not mean it never will.

True, but it messes with the more easy to understand lifecycle, an egglayer who is the salvation of the species, and that any drone can become one.

I suppose though, if you go back to black goo there is infinite ways this "Perfect Lifeform" can come to be.

You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding the film. Between his arrival on the planet and the arrival of the Covenant crew, David creates the first batch of eggs after a decade of Frankenstein-like experimentation.

There were no Aliens at all up til this point. At this stage there is no Queen at all yet either, and the Alien is still "unfinished" (lacking the biomechanical element).

The Advent short heavily implies that, similar to his experiments with Shaw, he will use Daniels reproductive organs (the difference being, Daniels is fertile). This would presumably result in the first Queen.

If the problem you're having is that various media (and in particular AvP) depicts Queens (and Aliens full stop, for that matter) at times well before Covenant occurs, you'll need to unpick those strands into separate, non-linked IPs because unless you're Xenomrph, they do not and will never work together narratively, and were not intended to by Scott, et al.

If I misunderstand, some of the blame is on whoever cut Advent and other parts out of the film to make those points clearer.

My point is Aliens went out of its way to explain the eggs come from a Queen. I understand Scott intended something else, but he did not return to the franchise till much later, when the Queen mythos was added. My issue wouldn't be with David creating some kind of Protomorph that becomes the Queen and lays eggs, my issue is he is made to be the one who created the eggs.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 25, 2021, 10:30:41 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jul 25, 2021, 10:17:24 PM
The Advent short heavily implies that, similar to his experiments with Shaw, he will use Daniels reproductive organs (the difference being, Daniels is fertile). This would presumably result in the first Queen.

If that even happens, I hope the design is somewhat different from Cameron's queen.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: [cancerblack] on Jul 25, 2021, 10:40:51 PM
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
If I misunderstand, some of the blame is on whoever cut Advent and other parts out of the film to make those points clearer.

Can't recall if it was actually cut or just always intended as a supplemental piece, but yes, it's less than perfectly clear in Covenant.

QuoteMy point is Aliens went out of its way to explain the eggs come from a Queen.

Eggs that look really rather different, that create Aliens who look quite different too.

QuoteI understand Scott intended something else, but he did not return to the franchise till much later, when the Queen mythos was added.

I fail to see how that's relevant.

QuoteMy issue wouldn't be with David creating some kind of Protomorph that becomes the Queen and lays eggs, my issue is he is made to be the one who created the eggs.

So the biggest problem, for you, is the idea of David fabricating the very first batch of eggs from multiple different creatures that themselves have undergone multiple iterations of refinement, as a vector for his near-perfected form of the pathogen, rather than making a creature that lays the eggs for him?

That's an odd gripe bruh but ok.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 10:48:24 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jul 25, 2021, 10:40:51 PM
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 10:28:43 PM
If I misunderstand, some of the blame is on whoever cut Advent and other parts out of the film to make those points clearer.

Can't recall if it was actually cut or just always intended as a supplemental piece, but yes, it's less than perfectly clear in Covenant.

QuoteMy point is Aliens went out of its way to explain the eggs come from a Queen.

Eggs that look really rather different, that create Aliens who look quite different too.

QuoteI understand Scott intended something else, but he did not return to the franchise till much later, when the Queen mythos was added.

I fail to see how that's relevant.

QuoteMy issue wouldn't be with David creating some kind of Protomorph that becomes the Queen and lays eggs, my issue is he is made to be the one who created the eggs.

So the biggest problem, for you, is the idea of David fabricating the very first batch of eggs from multiple different creatures that themselves have undergone multiple iterations of refinement, as a vector for his near-perfected form of the pathogen, rather than making a creature that lays the eggs for him?

That's an odd gripe bruh but ok.

Its relevant that Scott should have at least honored some of the Queen continuity.

Odd is your view, I say its a legitament critique. I want the two franchises to be in harmony, to do that Scott and other directors have to keep certain things consistent. 
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: [cancerblack] on Jul 25, 2021, 10:54:28 PM
The thing is, a director like Scott, at this point in his career, is going to basically come in and do whatever the f**k he likes, with zero regard for franchises, canon, or other marketing terms (which is explicitly what these ideas are) that might limit his creativity. And he's done it twice, for better or worse.

This is literally a chicken/egg scenario, where Scotts answer is that the egg, in fact, came before the chicken, since it was made in a lab. David made some eggs, and he'll eventually make a hen that can self-perpetuate the eggs.

You don't have to like it, but that's how it is, at this point in time. On the other hand, you could choose to ignore Covenant until something in the future retcons its retcon.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 25, 2021, 10:58:26 PM
Scott is remarkable good in retcon his own retcons.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 11:02:48 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jul 25, 2021, 10:54:28 PM
The thing is, a director like Scott, at this point in his career, is going to basically come in and do whatever the f**k he likes, with zero regard for franchises, canon, or other marketing terms (which is explicitly what these ideas are) that might limit his creativity. And he's done it twice, for better or worse.

This is literally a chicken/egg scenario, where Scotts answer is that the egg, in fact, came before the chicken, since it was made in a lab. David made some eggs, and he'll eventually make a hen that can self-perpetuate the eggs.

You don't have to like it, but that's how it is, at this point in time. On the other hand, you could choose to ignore Covenant until something in the future retcons its retcon.

Chicken or the Egg indeed. Except this chicken has a heck of a bite. :D

Your right about Scott, he seems more interested in beautiful cinematography than if its consistent with canon or the franchise as a whole. In all honestly I prefer Scott's style, so I get it.

I'd prefer not to ignore Covenant, I love the film. I think what you laid out as the point and that Trash Queen mentioned about David creating a queen will work. The truth is David is not the sole creator, the black goo came from Engineers; they still are the gods with David being Prometheus or perhaps Thanatos, and the Xenomorph being Cerebrus.

Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: [cancerblack] on Jul 25, 2021, 11:11:14 PM
As Jonesy loves pointing out, it's also entirely possible that the goo is older than even the Engineers, which is where you get into the really juicy fan wank headcanon about Engies and SJ being separate species, or the goo being an inert form of a Lovecraftian terror from outside time that keeps tricking lesser creatures into resurrecting it.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: judge death on Jul 25, 2021, 11:32:20 PM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Jul 25, 2021, 08:58:52 PM
The only way I think it would really work now for David to not be the direct creator of the Aliens (while still maintaining continuity) would be for him to realize that he is part of some cycle that repeats over and over again through history, a la the situation in Raised by Wolves, and for him to have a profoundly negative reaction to such a revelation – at this point, David and the Aliens are so intrinsically intertwined that any film that treats the prequels as canon either has to wholeheartedly maintain David in the role of direct creator, or subvert it in service of David's story. To skirt around it in order to offend/disappoint the least amount of people would be a disservice.
I would so love this and how David would react to it :D
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 11:37:03 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jul 25, 2021, 11:11:14 PM
As Jonesy loves pointing out, it's also entirely possible that the goo is older than even the Engineers, which is where you get into the really juicy fan wank headcanon about Engies and SJ being separate species, or the goo being an inert form of a Lovecraftian terror from outside time that keeps tricking lesser creatures into resurrecting it.

Or it could just be the Darwinian primordial ooze.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: [cancerblack] on Jul 25, 2021, 11:42:29 PM
Could be, but I think that one's supposed to be a different flavour of this biological nanotech.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 25, 2021, 11:47:16 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jul 25, 2021, 11:42:29 PM
Could be, but I think that one's supposed to be a different flavour of this biological nanotech.

It would be Scott slapping Weyland in the face if the black goo is Darwain's ooze and the quest for a creator is a fool's errand. It would be poetic.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Jul 26, 2021, 12:19:14 AM
Whether the two Black Goos are one and the same or not (I'm inclined to think that the one in Prometheus' prologue that is used by the Sacrificial Engineer to seed life on Earth is the same Pathogen from LV-223 that David eventually brings to "Paradise" and uses to create the Alien but coded/programmed differently for different use), Weyland's quest is still very much that same senseless fool's errand that ends in him meeting his uncaring creators and having what little life he was clinging to snuffed out by them.

Back at the time of Prometheus' release, before Covenant came around and recontextualized the Pathogen and its relationship with the Alien via David's arc, I was actually under the impression that the Alien itself was ancient and the Black Goo/Pathogen was the Engineers' attempt at distilling the Alien into what was intended to be a more controllable bio-weapon for them to use that eventually got out of hand and became uncontrollable – and if it was uncontrollable for them, then clearly Weyland-Yutani and the USM's future attempts at controlling and weaponizing the Alien would be just as futile.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 26, 2021, 12:40:29 AM
To me:
I like all those possibilities, with cosmic horror as my favorite. However, there is nothing in Prometheus to indicate that the Alien existed before Covenant. The mural is a creature whose head tip ends in a fine pointed end very similar to the head of a Deacon / Neomorph.

David created Plagarius linesteres which materializes in a morph lacking the biomechanical characteristics of Plagarius praepotens. Whether P. praepotens existed before David's actions is the subject of speculation, and probably the plan was that David eventually plays a pivotal role in the evolution from P. linesteres to P. praepotens, with all that and maybe even a first queen.

Sometimes we talk about Xeno-like traits when referring to the Neomorph & Deacon. But maybe it's the other way around: the Alien has Neomorph-like traits.

Anyway, the pathogen is the only thing that is undoubtedly ancient, and it appears to be a nanobot soup indeed.  :laugh:

Edit ~ I included the option of the Alien as an organism with a natural origin, because seriously! imagine how terrifying the ecosystem would be to force an organism to become this!!  :o

(https://i.ibb.co/PW6LZ36/Gigers-Alien-fln-Qk-Aw.jpg)

(https://s6.gifyu.com/images/QA43uZ.gif)
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Jul 26, 2021, 12:43:02 AM
I am not really into the Alien as a naturally occurring lifeform. At least, not in the way the original comic handled it, with them just coming from some random planet where they're part of the natural ecosystem that marines can just fly over to and mop up and whatnot.

My number one choice, at the moment, is David as creator. Love the thematic ripple effect that that has across the rest of the films, given what we know about David and the things we see the Aliens do.

But I'm also very loose on canon and would be totally down to see this either blow up in David's face as he finds out that he's part of some cyclical saga of re-creation (and how he reacts to that) or a flat out reboot/retconning that just goes for something totally different, something more inherently cosmic/primordial - I'm not beholden to any one  strict continuity, so long as each individual film/story is interesting in and of itself.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: [cancerblack] on Jul 26, 2021, 01:28:01 AM
God I wish this was an anthology series with a shared setting but no real continuity.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 26, 2021, 01:35:43 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Jul 26, 2021, 12:43:02 AM
I am not really into the Alien as a naturally occurring lifeform. At least, not in the way the original comic handled it, with them just coming from some random planet where they're part of the natural ecosystem that marines can just fly over to and mop up and whatnot.

My number one choice, at the moment, is David as creator. Love the thematic ripple effect that that has across the rest of the films, given what we know about David and the things we see the Aliens do.

But I'm also very loose on canon and would be totally down to see this either blow up in David's face as he finds out that he's part of some cyclical saga of re-creation (and how he reacts to that) or a flat out reboot/retconning that just goes for something totally different, something more inherently cosmic/primordial - I'm not beholden to any one  strict continuity, so long as each individual film/story is interesting in and of itself.

You make an interesting point that we can look at the horrors of Xenomorph as Collected Stories, which can differ in details. Perhaps something in each interation is willing this nightmare into existance. For now its David Weyland.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Stitch on Jul 26, 2021, 01:16:14 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 26, 2021, 12:40:29 AM
David created Plagarius linesteres which materializes in a morph lacking the biomechanical characteristics of Plagarius praepotens. Whether P. praepotens existed before David's actions is the subject of speculation, and probably the plan was that David eventually plays a pivotal role in the evolution from P. linesteres to P. praepotens, with all that and maybe even a first queen.
I'm confused. As far as I was aware, P. praepotens was the black goo itself, but you're referring to it as if it's the alien from Covenant. What gives?
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: jorel04 on Jul 26, 2021, 01:37:36 PM
I had a problem with how the creation was so easy in terms of how it was portrayed. That's why, in my fan fiction, I try to answer that question using what I think of the pathogen, David's experiments, and how "unpredictable" the pathogen's results were told to be.  I've always thought that, since it was so interpretative that David was the creator, it can also be interpretive on what resulted from it.  That he facilitated it versus out-and-out creating it... A cop out, sure. But if I "was booking it," to use a pro wrestling phrase.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Jul 26, 2021, 02:01:20 PM
Was it easy, though? I mean, it took David ~10 years and if his lab is anything to go by, it took a ton of trial and error and experimentation over the course of that decade before he reached the iteration of the Alien that we see in Covenant, and by Covenant's ending the Alien still isn't even completed/perfected.

(https://www.alien-covenant.com/aliencovenant_uploads/AlienCovenant_Luma_ITW_15.jpg)
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 26, 2021, 04:30:05 PM
Quote from: Stitch on Jul 26, 2021, 01:16:14 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 26, 2021, 12:40:29 AM
David created Plagarius linesteres which materializes in a morph lacking the biomechanical characteristics of Plagarius praepotens. Whether P. praepotens existed before David's actions is the subject of speculation, and probably the plan was that David eventually plays a pivotal role in the evolution from P. linesteres to P. praepotens, with all that and maybe even a first queen.
I'm confused. As far as I was aware, P. praepotens was the black goo itself, but you're referring to it as if it's the alien from Covenant. What gives?

P. praepotens was introduced in the novel The Cold Forge as a mutagenic substance produced by a facehugger to create a chestburster embryo within a host.

https://youtu.be/NdqInTKzWbc

But yeah, Alex White said something along these lines.  :laugh:

(https://i.ibb.co/1KNt15K/Kr3-Sm7-G5z6-Uiad1-Zlvr-WBh-VODvs-LTL-ja-Fgdof-SAMps.jpg)

Honestly, I don't know why he said that. Was it his way of making things less confusing for us? I mean, P. praepotens is the mutagenic substance to create the biomechanical Alien, as far I'm aware. The closest thing to the pathogen is P. linesteres which creates a chestburster that matures into a non-biomechanical Alien. That's...

(https://i.ibb.co/Xyh1734/5hnx1k-1.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/SQL0tG6/5hnx9h.jpg)

I could be wrong, but as I understand the pathogen took many forms, until David began to do his own experimentation, with a less random direction,  since as White himself states "resequenced by David, Linneaus-style". The result was his Praetomorph, which is created when a facehugger introduces P. linesteres to a host. P. praepotens produces Giger's Alien, with its biomechanical details, in addition to the chestbursters from the original films, which are generally snake-shaped (some with front limbs and others without limbs).

(https://i.ibb.co/tzsjWnT/5ho09c.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/YWWVnpy/5ho0qs.jpg)

Also, if we talk about mutagenic substances produced by facehugger (or the equivalent) to create chestbursters in hosts, there is still an unknown type of Plagiarious. I guess it's the original pathogen playing randomly to create a hybrid. 👀

(https://i.ibb.co/yPMCxw6/5ho4c6.jpg)

Actually, in David's Praetomorph (P. linesteres) in addition to being fleshy like the pathogen-based hybrids, the chestbursters are born fully developed with arms and legs just like the Deacon & Neomorph. So yeah, P. linesteres is the closest thing to the original pathogen IMO. I wonder if you need a queen for facehuggers that are carriers of P. praepotens? 🤔

Here's a stunning comparison to real life viruses.  8)

PLAGIARUS PRAEPOTENS by STUDIO YUTANI (https://yutani.studio/2018/05/09/plagiarus-praepotens/)
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 27, 2021, 02:40:59 AM
Thank you for the thorough explanation and link.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 27, 2021, 06:22:17 PM
TY. I like helping.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: jorel04 on Oct 11, 2021, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 27, 2021, 06:22:17 PM
TY. I like helping.

Freakin' awesome!  Thank you for posting that; it makes it look a little easier to understand.  Definitely don't want to study these creatures up-close... LOL
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Oct 14, 2021, 04:36:31 PM
That last one is Plagarius Deaconis. ;)
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: [cancerblack] on Oct 14, 2021, 08:29:52 PM
But where's Plagarius Tapiridae?
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Oct 14, 2021, 09:03:29 PM
Would the King Alien be Rex Plagarius?
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: [cancerblack] on Oct 14, 2021, 09:38:19 PM
No, it would be Plagarius Praepotens Rex or something to that effect.

Except it wouldn't, because the "King Alien" doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: City Hunter Yautja on Oct 15, 2021, 01:55:44 AM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Oct 14, 2021, 09:38:19 PM
No, it would be Plagarius Praepotens Rex or something to that effect.

Except it wouldn't, because the "King Alien" doesn't exist.

(https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/fr/cp0/e15/q65/245927028_394774978804331_3437771010588823366_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=110474&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=dzgiQn0ESLEAX8RUW49&tn=hjHmWW9HJOPHPAZc&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=b982166d870e4b84a945702e0f9ee9fd&oe=616DF8F2)
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: [cancerblack] on Oct 15, 2021, 06:22:36 PM
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Oct 15, 2021, 01:55:44 AM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Oct 14, 2021, 09:38:19 PM
No, it would be Plagarius Praepotens Rex or something to that effect.

Except it wouldn't, because the "King Alien" doesn't exist.

(https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/fr/cp0/e15/q65/245927028_394774978804331_3437771010588823366_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=110474&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=dzgiQn0ESLEAX8RUW49&tn=hjHmWW9HJOPHPAZc&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=b982166d870e4b84a945702e0f9ee9fd&oe=616DF8F2)

Is there supposed to be an image there? I can't see anything.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Oct 18, 2021, 11:18:29 AM
Kenner King.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: [cancerblack] on Oct 18, 2021, 05:07:46 PM
A completely blank post? Bizarre.
Title: Re: Alien Covenant: Chestbursters and Queen Alien
Post by: Inverse Effect on Oct 18, 2021, 09:45:22 PM
Or. Maybe the engineer on LV-426 is David, and the thing that bursts out of him is the Queen chestburster? after he uses Daniels reproductive organs to make the queen. It escapes and dies somehow to events not portrayed in any movie yet. And all of the eggs in the derelict are the crew of the covenant turned into eggs via egg morphing via his experiments?

Or he made a queen to make all of the eggs inside the derelict instead and we dont use the egg morphing method. And now we're left not only with the reasoning behind biomechanic aliens because he used himself as a host. But we also have the Queen > eggs life cycle set up.

When the crew of the Nostromo find the space jockey, it's not at all fossilized, it just appears to be because of the way the suit is made from bone/alien biomechanical space jockey tech. (Which i can forgive because the Jockey suit was already different visually in Prometheus)