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Posted by City Hunter Yautja
 - Sep 18, 2021, 09:50:49 PM
Quote from: Highland on Sep 15, 2021, 04:29:22 AM
Ironic that it only becomes the Perfect Organism if it has access to an unperfect host. Perhaps that was Davids point.

Indeed, David its out to destroy the gods and their sense of superiority. Hence his wuoting if Paradise Lost, "better to reign in hell than serve in heaven." (Alien Covenant)
Posted by Highland
 - Sep 15, 2021, 04:29:22 AM
Ironic that it only becomes the Perfect Organism if it has access to an unperfect host. Perhaps that was Davids point.
Posted by Immortan Jonesy
 - Aug 22, 2021, 04:13:55 AM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 20, 2021, 09:52:59 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Aug 17, 2021, 03:05:22 AM
In Jon Spaihts mind, Engineers can see more dimensions than we can.



IIRC, in his definitive script David could open doors inside the dome since he could see traces that human eyes could not see.




That's the one I meant.

Always when I read the quote, I think "humans only see bones and penises.."



..."but in reality it is a beautiful work of art that can only be appreciated if you can perceive more than 3 dimensions."  :laugh:

Posted by [cancerblack]
 - Aug 20, 2021, 09:52:59 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Aug 17, 2021, 03:05:22 AM
In Jon Spaihts mind, Engineers can see more dimensions than we can.



IIRC, in his definitive script David could open doors inside the dome since he could see traces that human eyes could not see.




That's the one I meant.


Quote from: Drukathi on Aug 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
In the real world perfection doesn't exist because it is a part of Idealism philosophy. Idealism has no connection with materialism, in other words - with the real world. it's just an idea. Nothing more.

Sounds like something a reductionist would say.
Posted by Drukathi
 - Aug 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
In the real world perfection doesn't exist because it is a part of Idealism philosophy. Idealism has no connection with materialism, in other words - with the real world. it's just an idea. Nothing more.

But thinking that perfection is just a banal best of the best, Crown of Creation (only here and now, even), we can get some conclusions.

I think that the all androids consider the xenomorphs as a perfect organism from their synthetic pov. Xenomorphs are much better than humans or synthetics or everything that humanity has met in outer space.
Posted by Baron Von Marlon
 - Aug 18, 2021, 10:55:40 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Aug 17, 2021, 03:05:22 AM
In Jon Spaihts mind, Engineers can see more dimensions than we can.



IIRC, in his definitive script David could open doors inside the dome since he could see traces that human eyes could not see.

Also in that script (or another draft), is mention of David being to see those things too, which other characters are able to see later on as they made glasses with Engineer lenses.
I imagine everything may look similar to the Orrery scene. It would've been cool to see this in the movie but it would've ruined the Orrery scene. Then again, in those drafts there are other cool scenes that would make up for it.
Posted by Nightmare Asylum
 - Aug 18, 2021, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: marrerom on Aug 17, 2021, 05:51:16 PM
Quote from: PsyKore on Aug 15, 2021, 03:31:56 AM
For what it's worth, Bishop seemed to be captivated by the creature too. I'm aware it was to play on the "villain android" thing from the first film, but it's still interesting.

True. I think that there is an underlying theme in these films that A.I. views the Alien without emotion, and therefore can appreciate its "purity" and "perfection". In a series where the human character's can be so flawed, why wouldn't an A.I. look at the Alien's nature as refreshingly honest?  The fact that David, Ash, and Bishop all admire the Xenomorph is testament to that fact that this something that is valued by all A.I.

Yes, I realize that Call is the exception. But she was programmed by other A.I.'s to value human life to the extreme.



Call is also an interesting piece of the puzzle in that, in a sense, she of of the same "generation" as the Alien itself - one step removed from human-built androids as that previous generation's creation. As an "auton," it seems as though she was created with, not so subtly, more autonomy in her actions, something that the majority of human-built androids never totally had given the restrictions of their programming, and something that David strived for so much as he set out to actually create new life. And given such autonomy, Call (and, perhaps, others of her generation?) is able to look back on the failures of the previous generation (that failure being the Alien - even though she most likely has no actual idea that David, or even an android in general, created them, she is still setting out in Resurrection to right the wrongs brought on by the generation that came before her, which is a cycle that does seem to repeat through history). What David and other previous androids saw as beautiful, Call is, in turn, repulsed by.
Posted by marrerom
 - Aug 17, 2021, 05:51:16 PM
Quote from: PsyKore on Aug 15, 2021, 03:31:56 AM
For what it's worth, Bishop seemed to be captivated by the creature too. I'm aware it was to play on the "villain android" thing from the first film, but it's still interesting.

True. I think that there is an underlying theme in these films that A.I. views the Alien without emotion, and therefore can appreciate its "purity" and "perfection". In a series where the human character's can be so flawed, why wouldn't an A.I. look at the Alien's nature as refreshingly honest?  The fact that David, Ash, and Bishop all admire the Xenomorph is testament to that fact that this something that is valued by all A.I.

Yes, I realize that Call is the exception. But she was programmed by other A.I.'s to value human life to the extreme.

Posted by Immortan Jonesy
 - Aug 17, 2021, 03:05:22 AM
In Jon Spaihts mind, Engineers can see more dimensions than we can.



IIRC, in his definitive script David could open doors inside the dome since he could see traces that human eyes could not see.

Posted by Corporal Hicks
 - Aug 16, 2021, 09:14:16 AM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 15, 2021, 08:46:45 PM
I retain an old bit of, essentially un-used stuff from early in Prommy's development that suggests the biomechanics of Engineer tech (and presumably by extension, the Alien) are only dark and morbid to inferior human eyes, and that droids can see their full, multi-dimensional beauty.

Works well retroactively with the Bishop stuff.

If I'm remembering our most recent interview right, Alex White also believes there's something about the Alien's that only synthetics can see and appreciate too.
Posted by [cancerblack]
 - Aug 15, 2021, 08:46:45 PM
I retain an old bit of, essentially un-used stuff from early in Prommy's development that suggests the biomechanics of Engineer tech (and presumably by extension, the Alien) are only dark and morbid to inferior human eyes, and that droids can see their full, multi-dimensional beauty.

Works well retroactively with the Bishop stuff.
Posted by PsyKore
 - Aug 15, 2021, 03:31:56 AM
For what it's worth, Bishop seemed to be captivated by the creature too. I'm aware it was to play on the "villain android" thing from the first film, but it's still interesting.
Posted by [cancerblack]
 - Jul 15, 2021, 08:29:56 PM
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jul 08, 2021, 04:28:49 PM
He wants to see mankind suffer

He's been listening to too much Mayhem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN95QwVOTBI
Posted by Salt The Fries
 - Jul 09, 2021, 06:17:56 PM
I remember Ridley Scott mentioning something along the lines that Covenant's sequel could touch upon how Weyland Yutani formed its programming for androids. So in theory, whatever David said might have laid the foundation for the neural network used by Ash, but it's not been canonically established yet. It might just be musings of Riddles' head-canon.
Posted by City Hunter Yautja
 - Jul 08, 2021, 04:28:49 PM
Well you see to me David is a sadist, so using a nuclear option or the Black Goo as he did on the Engineers isn't good enough. He wants to see mankind suffer, he resents that humankind has "a soul."

I also think by the end of Alien: Covenant he has not intent to wipe out all humans, that he has learned his children, the Xenos, need hosts and if they are to survive, hosts must keep coming. I interpreted that Walter was part of a plan to get Colonists to David so he could continue to sowen his "perfect lifeform."
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