This subject came up in "Which crossovers would you like to see?" thread and I thought some of the resident Alien experts could chime in: could a facehugger impregnate the Thing?
The Thing could impregnate a facehugger; in russia or otherwise.
It's possible.
If you are talking about a comic crossover that could work :) as a movie just one big no ::).
Quote from: The Runner on Jan 31, 2012, 05:01:34 PM
It's possible.
Not really, no. the Thing is a shape-shifter by nature, a facehugger would have about as much luck as trying to impregnate the T-1000.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 31, 2012, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: The Runner on Jan 31, 2012, 05:01:34 PM
It's possible.
Not really, no. the Thing is a shape-shifter by nature, a facehugger would have about as much luck as trying to impregnate the T-1000.
Yep and the thing can't infect the alien because its cells would be killed by the acid blood if it tries to assimilate a xenomorph.
so both species cannot infect each other, how amusing.
I'm not sure I agree with that - the Thing adapts and imitates, I think if it tried to assimilate an Alien by duplicating its exoskeleton (which is immune to the Alien's acid) then the acid would become a non-issue.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 31, 2012, 09:47:05 PM
I'm not sure I agree with that - the Thing adapts and imitates, I think if it tried to assimilate an Alien by duplicating its exoskeleton (which is immune to the Alien's acid) then the acid would become a non-issue.
The exoskeleton is a different story to the internal workings and to even replicate the exoskeleton in the first place it would need to infect a xenomorph with its cells which would be destroyed upon entering the body. The thing can't just imitate things, it needs to assimilate them first.
Unless Ridely has some surprises for us in Prometheus, The Thing is the superior organism on a molecular level. Making any confrontation rather one sided.
Doesn't mean that it couldn't be done well in the right hands.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 12:41:01 AM
Unless Ridely has some surprises for us in Prometheus, The Thing is the superior organism on a molecular level. Making any confrontation rather one sided.
Doesn't mean that it couldn't be done well in the right hands.
but its cells are still a "alive" like other animals even if they act different and since alien acid can completely melt a living animal, then the things infectious cells have no chance.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 12:56:44 AM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 12:41:01 AM
Unless Ridely has some surprises for us in Prometheus, The Thing is the superior organism on a molecular level. Making any confrontation rather one sided.
Doesn't mean that it couldn't be done well in the right hands.
but its cells are still a "alive" like other animals even if they act different and since alien acid can completely melt a living animal, then the things infectious cells have no chance.
It would replicate the chemicals that comprise acid, becoming acid.
I imagine The Thing takeover of an alien hive would go as smoothly has the take over of the dog kennel. Only a lot more interesting to watch.
i honestly doubt it though, the alien acid is so potent the cells of the thing would be destroyed in seconds upon entering the body which leaves no time for replication.
The Thing doesn't rip you apart like a cheesy bean and rice burrito then put you back together like puzzle. It absorbs you from the outside in. Adsorbing the Aliens exoskeleton (which is acid resistant) would be the 1st and only step needed to avoid/nullify the acid defense.
MacReady: "Check Mate."
I'll just wait for someone else to chime in on this one. Someone who understands the chemical background of acid and how it can be chemically copied by science but not by science fiction.
What if the thing assimilated a Xenomorph and somehow got connected to the Xenomorph hive mind?
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 01:16:41 AM
The Thing doesn't rip you apart like a cheesy bean and rice burrito then put you back together like puzzle. It absorbs you from the outside in. Adsorbing the Aliens exoskeleton (which is acid resistant) would be the 1st and only step needed to avoid/nullify the acid defense.
MacReady: "Check Mate."
I'll just wait for someone else to chime in on this one. Someone who understands the chemical background of acid and how it can be chemically copied by science but not by science fiction.
well tell us how a simple cell will penetrate an exoskeleton/endoskeleton?
i ain't a scientist but i really doubt a living biological cell can mesh, copy and replicate the concentrated acid of xenomorphs.
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 01, 2012, 01:20:15 AM
What if the thing assimilated a Xenomorph and somehow got connected to the Xenomorph hive mind?
That would make it even easier for the Thing-Alien to trick other Aliens and then start assimilating them, too.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 01:26:04 AM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 01:16:41 AM
The Thing doesn't rip you apart like a cheesy bean and rice burrito then put you back together like puzzle. It absorbs you from the outside in. Adsorbing the Aliens exoskeleton (which is acid resistant) would be the 1st and only step needed to avoid/nullify the acid defense.
MacReady: "Check Mate."
I'll just wait for someone else to chime in on this one. Someone who understands the chemical background of acid and how it can be chemically copied by science but not by science fiction.
well tell us how a simple cell will penetrate an exoskeleton/endoskeleton?
i ain't a scientist but i really doubt a living biological cell can mesh, copy and replicate the concentrated acid of xenomorphs.
It wouldn't need to penetrate, it would only need to copy it. Cells are still cells, no matter if they happen to make up squishy fleshy bits or hard exoskeletons. On a small enough scale, the Thing's cellular makeup would allow it to duplicate and assimilate the Alien's endoskeleton.
maybe, but the thing needs to fully assimilate a creature all in one, so while assimilating one part of it, it may get burnt by the acid in another part.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 01:26:04 AM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 01:16:41 AM
The Thing doesn't rip you apart like a cheesy bean and rice burrito then put you back together like puzzle. It absorbs you from the outside in. Adsorbing the Aliens exoskeleton (which is acid resistant) would be the 1st and only step needed to avoid/nullify the acid defense.
MacReady: "Check Mate."
I'll just wait for someone else to chime in on this one. Someone who understands the chemical background of acid and how it can be chemically copied by science but not by science fiction.
well tell us how a simple cell will penetrate an exoskeleton/endoskeleton?
i ain't a scientist but i really doubt a living biological cell can mesh, copy and replicate the concentrated acid of xenomorphs.
A cell is a cell is a cell is a cell. Unless the exoskeleton is made of metal or another non living (non-cellular) material it would be another day on the job for The Thing. It would be as easy to copy a xeno as it would a ground squirrel. Only no one I know would pay money to read a comic or watch a movie about that.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 01:36:00 AM
It wouldn't need to penetrate, it would only need to copy it. Cells are still cells, no matter if they happen to make up squishy fleshy bits or hard exoskeletons. On a small enough scale, the Thing's cellular makeup would allow it to duplicate and assimilate the Alien's endoskeleton.
Pretty much this. And on a small enough scale, the acid too.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 01:48:20 AM
maybe, but the thing needs to fully assimilate a creature all in one, so while assimilating one part of it, it may get burnt by the acid in another part.
If The Thing assimilates the acid proof outer shell of the Alien, how can it be burned? It's a prime example of bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Or rather, a knife to an electricity fight.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 01:56:14 AM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 01:26:04 AM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 01:16:41 AM
The Thing doesn't rip you apart like a cheesy bean and rice burrito then put you back together like puzzle. It absorbs you from the outside in. Adsorbing the Aliens exoskeleton (which is acid resistant) would be the 1st and only step needed to avoid/nullify the acid defense.
MacReady: "Check Mate."
I'll just wait for someone else to chime in on this one. Someone who understands the chemical background of acid and how it can be chemically copied by science but not by science fiction.
well tell us how a simple cell will penetrate an exoskeleton/endoskeleton?
i ain't a scientist but i really doubt a living biological cell can mesh, copy and replicate the concentrated acid of xenomorphs.
A cell is a cell is a cell is a cell. Unless the exoskeleton is made of metal or another non living (non-cellular) material it would be another day on the job for The Thing. It would be as easy to copy a xeno as it would a ground squirrel. Only no one I know would pay money to read a comic or watch a movie about that.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 01:36:00 AM
It wouldn't need to penetrate, it would only need to copy it. Cells are still cells, no matter if they happen to make up squishy fleshy bits or hard exoskeletons. On a small enough scale, the Thing's cellular makeup would allow it to duplicate and assimilate the Alien's endoskeleton.
Pretty much this. And on a small enough scale, the acid too.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 01:48:20 AM
maybe, but the thing needs to fully assimilate a creature all in one, so while assimilating one part of it, it may get burnt by the acid in another part.
If The Thing assimilates the acid proof outer shell of the Alien, how can it be burned? It's a prime example of bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Or rather, a knife to an electricity fight.
Xenomorphs are sometimes described as bio-mechanical so it might not be all organic.
and again i say a thing cannot copy without assimilating first, they cannot just shapeshift into something, that have to either infect it or absorb it both which requires getting with the xenomorph and thus getting acid on it or a cell.
But that's the thing, it wouldn't need to get splashed with acid. If it goes from the outside in, it'd get the exoskeleton first and then it's immune to the Alien's acid.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 02:03:35 AM
But that's the thing, it wouldn't need to get splashed with acid. If it goes from the outside in, it'd get the exoskeleton first and then it's immune to the Alien's acid.
No, not really, for the thing to be able to copy the host it would need to completely assimilate it, i'm not sure but i doubt the exoskeleton is the source of the immunity to acid.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 02:02:24 AM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 01:56:14 AM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 01:26:04 AM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 01:16:41 AM
The Thing doesn't rip you apart like a cheesy bean and rice burrito then put you back together like puzzle. It absorbs you from the outside in. Adsorbing the Aliens exoskeleton (which is acid resistant) would be the 1st and only step needed to avoid/nullify the acid defense.
MacReady: "Check Mate."
I'll just wait for someone else to chime in on this one. Someone who understands the chemical background of acid and how it can be chemically copied by science but not by science fiction.
well tell us how a simple cell will penetrate an exoskeleton/endoskeleton?
i ain't a scientist but i really doubt a living biological cell can mesh, copy and replicate the concentrated acid of xenomorphs.
A cell is a cell is a cell is a cell. Unless the exoskeleton is made of metal or another non living (non-cellular) material it would be another day on the job for The Thing. It would be as easy to copy a xeno as it would a ground squirrel. Only no one I know would pay money to read a comic or watch a movie about that.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 01:36:00 AM
It wouldn't need to penetrate, it would only need to copy it. Cells are still cells, no matter if they happen to make up squishy fleshy bits or hard exoskeletons. On a small enough scale, the Thing's cellular makeup would allow it to duplicate and assimilate the Alien's endoskeleton.
Pretty much this. And on a small enough scale, the acid too.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 01:48:20 AM
maybe, but the thing needs to fully assimilate a creature all in one, so while assimilating one part of it, it may get burnt by the acid in another part.
If The Thing assimilates the acid proof outer shell of the Alien, how can it be burned? It's a prime example of bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Or rather, a knife to an electricity fight.
Xenomorphs are sometimes described as bio-mechanical so it might not be all organic.
and again i say a thing cannot copy without assimilating first, they cannot just shapeshift into something, that have to either infect it or absorb it both which requires getting with the xenomorph and thus getting acid on it or a cell.
I'm pretty sure one of the unseen life cycles of the all might xenomorph doesn't require it to check in with Skynet to be retrofit with the latest protective alloy gear. ;) Seriously, the Alien is a living creature comprised of living cells just like a man, a dinosaur, a tarantula, or any other fictinal creature from any fan favorite films such as Star Wars, Predator, Godzilla. All of which would fall under the base rules of how The Thing operates.
f**k. The Thing could even copy a Jedi and use the f**king force.
The only thing The Thing would run into problems with, would be something made of non living tissue. Terminators come to mine. Particularly the early models before the flesh coverings.
At this point in the debate it just feels like we're trolling one another. The creatures can only do what they do given the limited reality in which they were written. I 'love' the Alien, Predator, Jedis, and Godzilla, 10 times more than the uncharismatic Thing. But I just cannot logically conclude that any of them could survive a full on outbreak of The Thing.
It's the Eagle versus the Worm scenario.
but the xenomorph's exoskeleton isn't organic, right? they replace it with layers and layers of some sylicon compound, and according to the new movie, the Thing can't copy unorganic tissue.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 01, 2012, 02:59:25 AM
but the xenomorph's exoskeleton isn't organic, right? they replace it with layers and layers of some sylicon compound, and according to the new movie, the Thing can't copy unorganic tissue.
The polarized silicon of which you speak would be (I assume) some variation of regular silicon which is the eighth most common element in the universe. Nothing too fancy, and something I'm sure The Thing has dealt with in the unmeasurable amount of time it's bio mass has existed within the cosmos.
The protein polysaccharides and polarized silicon are still produced biologically (and only in the facehugger life cycle for sure) and there for are organic. Just as a spider's webbing is organic and a skunks musk is organic. Any byproduct of an organic entity would be organic as well, yes? Not necessarily living organic material, but nothing like a suit of armor.
Lets pretend that it (the alien adult) can produce a silicon shield akin to the facehugger. What's to stop The Thing from tearing through that (even on a molecular level) to the organic shell which covers the blood vessels (assuming they have them that is.) It would be the cellular equivalent of The Thing tearing through inorganic material (clothes, prosthetics, fillings) to get at the organic material in men.
alright, so that rules out any resistance to active infection. what if the alien has a few drops of thing blood spray on it? do you think the Thing cells are strong enough to dig in on their own or would they die from exposition eventually?
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 01, 2012, 04:18:11 AM
alright, so that rules out any resistance to active infection. what if the alien has a few drops of thing blood spray on it? do you think the Thing cells are strong enough to dig in on their own or would they die from exposition eventually?
I guess it depends on the environmental conditions and what 'form' The Thing was in before it commenced it's attack on the xenomorph. The Thing we witnessed in the 1980's film and the reboot was a diluted fraction of it's former self. A wounded off shoot bio mass that was really struggling for survival. Extreme cold froze it, but it lived on. Extreme heat (fire) would stop it (neutralize it) but any remains not reduced to ash would 'regenerate.'
The Alien also seemed to recoil from extreme temperatures. (Ripley's steam/compressed air attack on the lifeboat, Flame Thrower units the Marines used, and Wren's liquid nitrogen punishment blasts.) So they share similar weakness/resistances that each could not use against the other to any great effect.
For effect you must read the following sentence in Ian Malcom's voice.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1208.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc377%2FBatChainPuller%2FIanMalcolm.jpg&hash=f3bc19ea510982ac7fe2b39d1983eba0d4f631b2)
Ahem. Yes. If ... The Thing's blood was to spray on ... on an adult Alien's Caprice, I'm sure unless the Alien was engulfed in, um, flames? or swimming in -in liquid nitrogen, the blood would ... would find a way.
this is hard because i love both creatures original designs so much but, i feel The Thing would be able to replicate a xenomorphs outer layer if silicon, after all the creature must have some form of living cell. (im not entirely sureabout this but im almost positive there is no possible way a facehugger could infect The Thing. it would see the facehugger as a threat to it and each part would split apart as seen in John Carpenter's version) either way if done right this would be a epic battle of alien on alien proportion ;D
This would be a good match up. Each creature is immune to the other (impregnation vs assimilation) and it would come down to a tooth and claw fight.
But ultimately the Alien wouldn't be immune to assimilation, that's what we've been saying. :P
I don't see how the Thing could copy an Alien... if the Thing can't assimilate clothes, which is just organic compounds like wool and cloth, why would it somehow be able to copy polarized silicon? it wouldn't. Everything we've seen points to it needing a functional cell to assimilate and copy. Its best bet would be to tear through the Alien's outer shell to get to its innards but since the alien has acid blood that wouldn't work.
the Alien is truly immune. That's not to say that the Thing wouldn't most likely win in a fight though. i mean, its not like the Alien could just head bite it and walk away.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 31, 2012, 08:15:38 PM
Not really, no. the Thing is a shape-shifter by nature, a facehugger would have about as much luck as trying to impregnate the T-1000.
It could under two circumstances.
1) The Thing lets itself be impregnated... Why matters not.
2) It is possible that if an Oswoc Drone, or any other Alien adapted to use mutagenic acids, used mutagenic acid on the thing that the tumors forming on it would prevent shape shifting.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Jan 31, 2012, 09:47:05 PM
I'm not sure I agree with that - the Thing adapts and imitates, I think if it tried to assimilate an Alien by duplicating its exoskeleton (which is immune to the Alien's acid) then the acid would become a non-issue.
Aliens don't have exoskeletons, they have very unique skin that affords many unnatural defenses. Aliens Quadrilogy discs show they have an endoskeleton, other sources that show that they have skin and or a endoskeletion are as follows. Alien, Alien 3, AvP, AvP:R, Predator 2, Aliens: Rogue, Aliens: Genocide.
Anyway after watching The Thing again, I disagree that it can imitate Alien flesh and assimilate at the same time. After the Doctor in the The Thing examined the creature imitating the dog he said that IT had no cells. If it has no cells it is not imitating anything.
Also the Xenomorph is an inorganic creature its biology is H2So4 / HF [H20] and it is appears to be very similar to a Silicon-Carbon based life forms and is stated that its morphology is heavily based off Silicon polymers.
As we know from watching the preq of The Thing, it can not assimilate inorganic material.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 12:37:19 AM
The exoskeleton is
Xenomorphs do not have exoskeletons unless maybe they come from something that does.
Aliens have a mesoskeleton, it's a combination of an exo and endoskeleton. The Weyland-Yutani Archive on the AvP Requiem blu-ray go into a bit more detail on it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 08:21:49 AM
Aliens have a mesoskeleton, it's a combination of an exo and endoskeleton. The Weyland-Yutani Archive on the AvP Requiem blu-ray go into a bit more detail on it.
That bread may have had something like that even then it show in the movie an alien being skinned. Exoskeletions do not bend like its skin did in that movie. Nor do they peal off like they did when the Queen Predalien was molting.
Also in Aliens: Once in a lifetime, it is stated that Aliens can adapt to deal with whatever problems they are having, Bio-imperatives. It could get worse for the Thing, the Alien could very well adapt and instead of acid have enzymes that not only stop assimilation, but then infect the Thing causing it to not be able to regenerate and even not to be able shape-change.
Quote from: marrerom on Feb 01, 2012, 06:37:00 AM
I don't see how the Thing could copy an Alien... if the Thing can't assimilate clothes, which is just organic compounds like wool and cloth, why would it somehow be able to copy polarized silicon? it wouldn't. Everything we've seen points to it needing a functional cell to assimilate and copy. Its best bet would be to tear through the Alien's outer shell to get to its innards but since the alien has acid blood that wouldn't work.
the Alien is truly immune. That's not to say that the Thing wouldn't most likely win in a fight though. i mean, its not like the Alien could just head bite it and walk away.
Yep, plus the thing is mostly immune to physical damage as it can alter its form, only fire seems to do the trick and acid would have a similar affect.
QuoteThat bread may have had something like that even then it show in the movie an alien being skinned. Exoskeletions do not bend like its skin did in that movie. Nor do they peal off like they did when the Queen Predalien was molting.
No, the Alien actually does have an exoskeleton at the least, even if it's covered by some kind of thin skin or something like that.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 12:36:33 PM
Yep, plus the thing is mostly immune to physical damage as it can alter its form, only fire seems to do the trick and acid would have a similar affect.
And that would have to be A LOT of acid. A vat. A f**king splash tank.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 08:28:22 AM
That bread may have had something like that even then it show in the movie an alien being skinned. Exoskeletions do not bend like its skin did in that movie. Nor do they peal off like they did when the Queen Predalien was molting.
Also in Aliens: Once in a lifetime, it is stated that Aliens can adapt to deal with whatever problems they are having, Bio-imperatives. It could get worse for the Thing, the Alien could very well adapt and instead of acid have enzymes that not only stop assimilation, but then infect the Thing causing it to not be able to regenerate and even not to be able shape-change.
Invoking anything from AVP or AVPR isn't going to help the Alien as a species or a franchise. As far as the Alien magically changing it's blood to 'anti-shapeshifting potion' is beyond moronic and belongs in the fan fiction archives of The Ghoul personal collection.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
The Thing lets itself be impregnated... Why matters not.
Now this is interesting! The Thing
'could' allow the facehugger to impregnate it's perfectly replicated human without fear of physical damage. (Why it would allow this, I don't know, but bear with me!) The fun part would be ... what would be happening inside. Lots of speculation obviously. A decent writer could argue that the embryos 'hijacking' of the hosts DNA could result in a xeno with some shape shifting capabilities. However that would have to be one talented writer to make us forget the xeno only adopts basic structural likeness. Not complete biological makeups (such as the Thing.)
Even more likely, the embryo would just be assimilated the second the 'Alien proteins' were administered.
Nope. Sorry. Even with that interesting glimmer of hope from a xeno borrowing 'enough' of The Things power from an embryo DNA heist ... it's still woefully ignorant to believe the xeno strain could be anything more than 'the next assimilation' in the abyssal cosmic eye of The Thing.
I'd image it would be like chucking two molten rocks together, a completely new creature would be created as both strands of DNA try to assimilate each other.
Quote from: Scout on Feb 01, 2012, 05:06:24 PM
I'd image it would be like chucking two molten rocks together, a completely new creature would be created as both strands of DNA try to assimilate each other.
The Alien doesn't assimilate anything at any point in it's life cycle. It builds it's own structure (from infancy) based on it's hosts DNA. This is a long process and the alien zygote is profoundly vulnerable during this stage.
The Thing does assimilate all living tissue on contact. Has the ability to bring forth any shape (and there for natural powers) of any lifeforms previously assimilated. Countless lifeforms. A virtual army of options. It's a f**king Swiss Army Organism.
As cool as the Alien is, it would end up being another tool in The Things bag of tricks. A bottle opener with blood that could shift into acidic properties.
It's really not fair. The only way to fight The Thing is exactly how they did in the films. Isolated genocide powered by grievous paranoia. No one technically survived either film. Money on some bits of the Thing being re-frozen at both the American and Norwegian camps.
the only thing capable of effectively annihilating the thing would be a swarm of nanobots. a grey blob.
i don't think they can just assimilate their way in, the alien was thick enough to survive a direct jet of plasma and to swim in molten lead, so i doubt their hide is made of anything "alive". it would take a lot of time at least. they also seem to be unaffected by radiation either which might be a weakness of the thing considering the effects it has on a celular level.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 01, 2012, 05:43:45 PM
the only thing capable of effectively annihilating the thing would be a swarm of nanobots. a grey blob.
It would at least then be more of a fair fight. Then we'd have to worry about the nanobots. Oh Micheal Crichton. You know how no make me lose sleep at night. ;D
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 01, 2012, 05:43:45 PM
i don't think they can just assimilate their way in, the alien was thick enough to survive a direct jet of plasma and to swim in molten lead, so i doubt their hide is made of anything "alive". it would take a lot of time at least. they also seem to be unaffected by radiation either which might be a weakness of the thing considering the effects it has on a celular level.
I'm wary of invoking that "Jason moment" to explain something in a logical manner. It was a jump scare moment that completely undermined the entire plot of the film up until that point by having the Alien, who's sole purpose was to protect the Queen bearing Ripley, suddenly and inexplicably turn ferociously against and try to annihilate her.
To be fair I'm willing to ignore the Bull in the China Shop character departure of The Thing in the reboot, with it running through walls like the Kool-Aid man infected with the T-Virus.
Besides. The Thing assimilation is not akin to the destructive force of heat. It's a completely different process involving cellular manipulation, copying, absorbing. Just because something is extremely hard tactily speaking doesn't make it more difficult to copy. In terms of radiation, I'm drawing a blank on how it came into play in an alien film. I assume radiation wouldn't effect The Thing seriously except in incendiary doses. Any 'abnormal' mutations to it' caused by radiation to the biomass wouldn't impair it's base system functions before it shed the offending parts and generated new ones.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 01, 2012, 05:43:45 PM
the only thing capable of effectively annihilating the thing would be a swarm of nanobots. a grey blob.
Or these:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.toutlecine.com%2Fphotos%2Fc%2Fo%2Fe%2Fcoeur-de-dragon-1996-10-g.jpg&hash=8b3f1ce5e9788536ba29366a068348b06cb2e498)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi848.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab43%2FOmegaZilla95%2FGeneral%2520Movie%2520Monsters%2Freign-of-fire-dragon-1.jpg&hash=011330fd9b784f2f6e2bc4d1973a862bb34b0d46)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi848.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab43%2FOmegaZilla95%2FGeneral%2520Movie%2520Monsters%2FVermithraxfire.jpg&hash=91a675822b278d8bddb01cc68403af71b45696e0)
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 06:12:58 PM
It would at least then be more of a fair fight. Then we'd have to worry about the nanobots. Oh Micheal Crichton.
+1 for awesome reference!
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 01, 2012, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 01, 2012, 05:43:45 PM
the only thing capable of effectively annihilating the thing would be a swarm of nanobots. a grey blob.
Or these:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.toutlecine.com%2Fphotos%2Fc%2Fo%2Fe%2Fcoeur-de-dragon-1996-10-g.jpg&hash=8b3f1ce5e9788536ba29366a068348b06cb2e498)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi848.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab43%2FOmegaZilla95%2FGeneral%2520Movie%2520Monsters%2Freign-of-fire-dragon-1.jpg&hash=011330fd9b784f2f6e2bc4d1973a862bb34b0d46)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi848.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab43%2FOmegaZilla95%2FGeneral%2520Movie%2520Monsters%2FVermithraxfire.jpg&hash=91a675822b278d8bddb01cc68403af71b45696e0)
A heavily armored flying dragon with human intelligence would stand a chance to win a battle or two, or three! But I can't see them winning the war. If Matthew "Techno Viking" McConaughey can cliff dive into a Dragon's mouth with a battle axe and Peter MacNicol can rodeo with one ... I'm sure The Thing could take some form a little more proficient at sneak attacking than either of those two!
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 01, 2012, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 06:12:58 PM
It would at least then be more of a fair fight. Then we'd have to worry about the nanobots. Oh Micheal Crichton.
+1 for awesome reference!
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1208.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc377%2FBatChainPuller%2Fcrichton1.jpg&hash=0af465abe1c9736f8869292b096e208cd9c351ff)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 04:20:28 PM
QuoteThat bread may have had something like that even then it show in the movie an alien being skinned. Exoskeletions do not bend like its skin did in that movie. Nor do they peal off like they did when the Queen Predalien was molting.
No, the Alien actually does have an exoskeleton at the least, even if it's covered by some kind of thin skin or something like that.
If it has skin on top to the exoskeleton, it is not a exoskeleton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoskeleton#Diversity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoskeleton#Diversity)
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 09:17:42 PM
A heavily armored flying dragon with human intelligence would stand a chance to win a battle or two, or three! But I can't see them winning the war. If Matthew "Techno Viking" McConaughey can cliff dive into a Dragon's mouth with a battle axe and Peter MacNicol can rodeo with one ... I'm sure The Thing could take some form a little more proficient at sneak attacking than either of those two!
Well yeah, but would the Thing have a shield (which saved MacNicol's ass plenty of times) and all the advantages those characters had?
Another contender:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi848.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab43%2FOmegaZilla95%2FGeneral%2520Movie%2520Monsters%2FLeviathanhead.png&hash=23b650cfdcafd682dbc6211aa1863fbb5c2e45be)
(Most boring battle ever! Unless we had a microscope...)
And also...
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi848.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab43%2FOmegaZilla95%2FGeneral%2520Movie%2520Monsters%2Fbalrogyz9.jpg&hash=dee6f4895b4b8541bc319baaca9cdc31dd816703)
;D ;D
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 01, 2012, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 09:17:42 PM
A heavily armored flying dragon with human intelligence would stand a chance to win a battle or two, or three! But I can't see them winning the war. If Matthew "Techno Viking" McConaughey can cliff dive into a Dragon's mouth with a battle axe and Peter MacNicol can rodeo with one ... I'm sure The Thing could take some form a little more proficient at sneak attacking than either of those two!
Well yeah, but would the Thing have a shield (which saved MacNicol's ass plenty of times) and all the advantages those characters had?
Absolutely! You have to take into consideration the collected intelligence of The Thing on top of it's already 'top of the food chain' credentials. The Thing can instantly master whatever skills it's last victim possessed and expand upon them. Computer programming, fencing, macrame, even building space faring vehicles out of helicopter and snow cat parts! I'm sure it could figure out fire resistant shield. Especially in a world/realm of Dragons where such scales and crafts would be readily available.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 01, 2012, 09:38:18 PM
Another contender:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi848.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab43%2FOmegaZilla95%2FGeneral%2520Movie%2520Monsters%2FLeviathanhead.png&hash=23b650cfdcafd682dbc6211aa1863fbb5c2e45be)
(Most boring battle ever! Unless we had a microscope...)
Yeah, it's almost the same monster. Just a different environment. We should exclude creature contenders who owe their existence to The Thing. ;)
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 01, 2012, 09:38:18 PM
And also...
http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab43/OmegaZilla95/General%20Movie%20Monsters/balrogyz9.jpg
;D ;D
Yeah that would be interesting. Was the Balrog even flesh? I always considered it an elemental force. Like animate flame, smoke, lava, ash. More of a supernatural beast. But then again, if it can be killed by a sword, it must be alive enough to die. lol. Retarded wording I know, but I'm sure you get the point!
Someone should change the name of this thread to "The Thing Versus _____"
I'm still sticking with Skynet and it's artificial armada of killing machines. The Thing would have no way to infiltrate using it's biggest asset. Sure it could run amok on the battle field taking out a few machines with brute force. But that is in no way it's forte and would be eventually reduced to ash from a menagerie of photon weapons and flame units.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
And that would have to be A LOT of acid. A vat. A f**king splash tank.
Ironically enough Praetorians have been shown to projecting giant bursts of acid, showing the enemy in lots and lots of acid.
Alternately there Predalien Warriors from LV-742 that have evolved in such a way that their four mandibles can inject its prey full of acid dissolving it prey. Also in another Story human Alien warriors have evolved in such a way they can do the same thing as the Predalien Warriors of LV-742.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
Invoking anything from AVP or AVPR isn't going to help the Alien as a species or a franchise.
Why it is now. But now that you mention AvP:R the Predalien Queen had a sort of infectious bacterial poison in its tail. There is a good chance that this venom would kill the Thing in the effected area. We have seen that poison have an effect on the Thing as seen in on of the games.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
As far as the Alien magically changing it's blood to 'anti-shapeshifting potion' is beyond moronic and belongs in the fan fiction archives of The Ghoul personal collection.
This is a canon ability that it has, "Bio-imperatives" it is something that the Thing could very well be done in by.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
The Thing lets itself be impregnated... Why matters not.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
Even more likely, the embryo would just be assimilated the second the 'Alien proteins' were administered.
I don't think so, the Xenomorph is not only a inorganic entity, but it also has a powerful immune system. We have seen that the Thing can not assimilate inorganic material, we also have seen in the Special edition of the Thing that when it is assimilating something, it no longer has cells in its body, since that is the case it can't be imitating the Alien and assimilating at the same time.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
Nope. Sorry. Even with that interesting glimmer of hope from a xeno borrowing 'enough' of The Things power from an embryo DNA heist ... it's still woefully ignorant to believe the xeno strain could be anything more than 'the next assimilation' in the abyssal cosmic eye of The Thing.
A couple other things to point out is that the thing is a sentient creature. It has shown a great desire to survive and in effect has shown that it has a fear of death, otherwise it would not become separate creatures if the main body is going to die. The reason I point this out is because the Aliens have shown to be cosmic horrors, they have caused people to have constant horrifying dreams about them, even if said people had never seen or heard of a Xenomorph. The Queen Mother was able to even manipulate people through there dreams, possibly even causing them to go insane.
Their is a good chance that it could be mentally manipulated by the Queen Mother.
Another thing to point out is that if IF the Thing actually was able to assimilate a Xenomorph and it tried to infiltrate the hive, it would be detected immediately.
ALIENS OMNIBUS VOLUME 3 Aliens: Labyrinth page 206 panel 1 & 2
QuoteThe surface is lined with compound cells of Fullerite-encased Hurlantium. The Internal structure is solid neurons in two binary fans. Very, Very dense. I think it's the Alien psychic receiver. The fullerite and hurlantium pick up E-waves and the binary fans create interference patterns from electro-magnetic fields. So it would not only receive brainwaves but enable the alien to assess another animal's physical characteristics by seeing its subtle body.
In the end I think if a Thing was pretending to be a Xenomorph and it ran into a group of Xenomorphs, they would notice all the different components of the Thing having there own thought patterns. I am confident after seeing the scene I mentioned in the Thing special edition that the thing, when assimilating something, has not cells. The only way The Thing
could be immune to acids that Xenomorphs use would be when it itself is pretending to be a Xenomorph, once it reveals it self it is not emulating anything because it has no cells.
In the end though I a sure the thing can't even assimilate a Xenomorph so the above probably will not matter.
I see a confrontation ending two ways between these two.
1)The Aliens kill off all the Things on the planet they are on, the Thing has no capabilities to assimilate the Alien let alone kill it. The Thing becomes desperate and tries to kill the Xenomorphs outright instead of assimilating them. The Aliens adapt ether using Acid based attacks and defenses more, AND or developing a anti-Thing enzyme that flat out drops the thing to a 0 threat level and becomes extinct.
2)The Thing becomes a bottom feeder on the planet it shares with the Xenomorphs. This is the same thing that happened with the Metroids and the Parasite X in the Metroid series. Parasite X is exactly like the Thing except it floats through the air. The Metroids were impurvious to Parasites X attacks, so Parasite X went under gournd and stayed in hibernation and or attacked only the lowest lifeforms on the food chain on the planet it was on.
Damn dude you sure do know your shit. :P
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 01, 2012, 10:41:10 PM
Damn dude you sure do know your shit. :P
Not really, he forgot the third option, the thing kills the alien...
All it has to do is wrap a few tentacles around its neck and it will break and no acid will leak, plus the thing infects far faster than a xenomorph can, so it would have numbers on its side.
Quotethey would notice all the different components of the Thing having there own thought patterns.
Except that the Thing is a perfect imitation, which would cover that. At other points in the EU obvious non-Aliens are able to infiltrate hives using nothing but pheromones, as well.
That and the Alien isn't inorganic. At best it's a combination of organic and inorganic - even if it's entirely made of silicon (which it likely isn't) the Thing should be able to duplicate it since that's what it does.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 11:06:35 PM
Quotethey would notice all the different components of the Thing having there own thought patterns.
Except that the Thing is a perfect imitation, which would cover that. At other points in the EU obvious non-Aliens are able to infiltrate hives using nothing but pheromones, as well.
That and the Alien isn't inorganic. At best it's a combination of organic and inorganic - even if it's entirely made of silicon (which it likely isn't) the Thing should be able to duplicate it since that's what it does.
i'm not sure if it could assimilate a xenomorph because of the acid blood, it would destroy any foreign cells that entered into its "blood" stream.
But if the Thing had duplicated the Alien's acid-proof mesoskeleton first, then it wouldn't be seen as "foreign", would it? :P
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 11:15:32 PM
But if the Thing had duplicated the Alien's acid-proof mesoskeleton first, then it wouldn't be seen as "foreign", would it? :P
its possible but the thing assimilates by getting its cells within a creature, the aliens exoskeleton doesn't seem likely to be infected, its mostly near metal solid. :P but to be honest we still don't much about the xenomorph's structure to presume much about its capabilites.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 10:52:36 PM
Not really, he forgot the third option, the thing kills the alien...
All it has to do is wrap a few tentacles around its neck and it will break and no acid will leak, plus the thing infects far faster than a xenomorph can, so it would have numbers on its side.
Yeah small problem with your hypothesis, even if the thing were strong enough to break its neck, which most are not, they cant even break steal doors, if it wanted to assimilate it IT STILL has to deal with the acid.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 11:26:16 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 11:15:32 PM
But if the Thing had duplicated the Alien's acid-proof mesoskeleton first, then it wouldn't be seen as "foreign", would it? :P
its possible but the thing assimilates by getting its cells within a creature, the aliens exoskeleton doesn't seem likely to be infected, its mostly near metal solid. :P but to be honest we still don't much about the xenomorph's structure to presume much about its capabilites.
As a whole it's very solid, but when you go down to the molecular/cellular level that wouldn't be the case. Bone is very solid, but once you get to the microscopic level it looks like this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FVrCtw.jpg&hash=09d04934a67049cb6d45718e9347050ab83b6cb4)
And that's not even the cellular level, which looks like this:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FoCUGJ.jpg&hash=9e4eb73b919fa7d7b5a2f54bca5369688461487d)
That, and I doubt it's "metal solid" - it can be cracked (as seen in 'Alien3') and pierced by gunfire without much difficulty.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 11:30:42 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 10:52:36 PM
Not really, he forgot the third option, the thing kills the alien...
All it has to do is wrap a few tentacles around its neck and it will break and no acid will leak, plus the thing infects far faster than a xenomorph can, so it would have numbers on its side.
Yeah small problem with your hypothesis, even if the thing were strong enough to break its neck, which most are not, they cant even break steal doors, if it wanted to assimilate it IT STILL has to deal with the acid.
Why couldn't it break an Alien's neck or steel doors, exactly?
As for the acid blood, once it assimilates the mesoskeleton then the acid-blood is a non-issue. It would be immune to it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 11:06:35 PM
Except that the Thing is a perfect imitation, which would cover that. At other points in the EU obvious non-Aliens are able to infiltrate hives using nothing but pheromones, as well.
It being a perfect imitation does not change the fact that every little bit of it is a separate entity, the Alien will be able to detect that difference in it.
As for the other non-aliens entering the hive with pheromones, do not forget that most if not all the characters in different stories screwed up at one-point or another, they can't move normally if they do the Aliens will attack them.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 11:06:35 PM
That and the Alien isn't inorganic. At best it's a combination of organic and inorganic - even if it's entirely made of silicon (which it likely isn't) the Thing should be able to duplicate it since that's what it does.
Silicon is inorganic material, the Thing can not assimilate inorganic material.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 11:34:25 PM
Why couldn't it break an Alien's neck or steel doors, exactly?
Human Based Alien Warriors can ram right through 6 inchs of steel, the can punch through Armored Quartz which has a compression strength of 160,000 p.s.i. The Thing that turned into a dog couldn't even break a metal link fence down.
If they got to that close of range, the Warrior will easily get out of the tentacles. If its a non-xenomorph alien based Warrior like a Predalien, Pilot, Reaper, than its even easier for the Alien to overpower the Thing.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 11:34:25 PM
As for the acid blood, once it assimilates the mesoskeleton then the acid-blood is a non-issue. It would be immune to it.
If and only if it could, that would only help it if its not trying to assimilate a Xenomorph. Once it goes into its assimilation mode, it is not imitating anything, so it will melt itself trying to assimilate a Xenomorph.
And it get worse if the Aliens evolve to use more acid based weapon and or anti-thing enzymes.
an alien can't break steel doors either, it needed a horde to break down that door in aliens. the thing is potentially bigger than a single alien (depending on its last form) and is quite strong, it lifted a man and shook him about using just its head. alien necks can be broken and with the many tentacles it could break the alien into any horrible position it wants.
QuoteIt being a perfect imitation does not change the fact that every little bit of it is a separate entity, the Alien will be able to detect that difference in it.
If it's each little bit working in concert to imitate one organism, then the Alien wouldn't be able to tell the difference since it's a perfect imitation down to the smallest detail. Similarly, people are an amalgamation of billions of cells working together to create a person, the difference is that those individual cells don't break off and do their own thing if separated from the whole.
Quote
As for the other non-aliens entering the hive with pheromones, do not forget that most if not all the characters in different stories screwed up at one-point or another, they can't move normally if they do the Aliens will attack them.
It works more often than it doesn't, though - there's also the robotic Aliens (Jerry from 'Aliens: Stronghold' and the one from 'Aliens: Harvest' whose name I'm forgetting) who successfully infiltrated Alien hives and interacted with real Aliens numerous times based on pheromones alone.
QuoteSilicon is inorganic material
Not (http://www.docteur-saubens.com/organic-silicon.html) exactly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organosilicon). :)
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 11:48:32 PM
an alien can't break steel doors either,
Yes it can, we have seen warriors punch through steel 2 inches to 6 inchs thick in Aliens, AvP:R, Aliens: Colonial Marines, just about every story with the Alien has them destroying steel that are more durable than what we have. Not to mention it freaking punched through Armored Quartz.
Steels that we have now are not as strong as Armored Quartz.
1018 Mild (low-carbon) steel
Yield Strength, psi 53,700
ASTM A36 Mild (low-carbon) steel
Yield Strength, psi 36,300
1144 (Stressproof-equivalent) steel
Yield Strength, psi 100,000
12L14 free machining steel
Yield Strength, psi 60,200
ASTM A653 Mild (low-carbon) Hot Dipped Galvanized Steel
Yield Strength, psi 36,300
ASTM A366 (alloy 1008) steel
Yield Strength, psi 26,100 - 34,800
ASTM A513 alloys 1020 - 1026 Mild (low-carbon) steel
Yield Strength, psi 72,000
8620 (chrome-nickel-moly) Alloy Steel
Yield, psi 57,000
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 11:48:32 PM
it needed a horde to break down that door in aliens.
Only two at the most could even hit the strongest doors in that movie, even then the steel at that time is alot stronger.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 01, 2012, 11:48:32 PM
the thing is potentially bigger than a single alien (depending on its last form) and is quite strong, it lifted a man and shook him about using just its head. alien necks can be broken and with the many tentacles it could break the alien into any horrible position it wants.
That guy was probably around 170-190 pounds that nothing a Xenomorph can't handle.
I said an Alien not Aliens and there is no proof those doors were stronger than those in present day, nothing in that film say it is.
The Thing is mostly immune to physical damage, it will just alter its form. An alien wouldn't have much of a chance, regardless if it could kill that other guy.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 10:37:55 PM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
And that would have to be A LOT of acid. A vat. A f**king splash tank.
Ironically enough Praetorians have been shown to projecting giant bursts of acid, showing the enemy in lots and lots of acid.
Alternately there Predalien Warriors from LV-742 that have evolved in such a way that their four mandibles can inject its prey full of acid dissolving it prey. Also in another Story human Alien warriors have evolved in such a way they can do the same thing as the Predalien Warriors of LV-742.
Predalien's haven't been portrayed in any media that any right thinking individual would consider canon to either Alien or Predator franchises, respectfully. Regardless of what Magic Powers they have in comic books or some half baked script. They do no exist in this dojo.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 10:37:55 PM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
Invoking anything from AVP or AVPR isn't going to help the Alien as a species or a franchise.
Why it is now. But now that you mention AvP:R the Predalien Queen had a sort of infectious bacterial poison in its tail. There is a good chance that this venom would kill the Thing in the effected area. We have seen that poison have an effect on the Thing as seen in on of the games.
It's hard to see what your saying in this post. English be damned, but I see "AvP:R" and more "Predalien" stuff and now poison tails. Most of that didn't even happen in the AVP films (which continue to be invalid into this paragraph.) So I can only image that these are comic book attempts at expanding the classic canon.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 10:37:55 PM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
As far as the Alien magically changing it's blood to 'anti-shapeshifting potion' is beyond moronic and belongs in the fan fiction archives of The Ghoul personal collection.
This is a canon ability that it has, "Bio-imperatives" it is something that the Thing could very well be done in by.
A speculative expansion on a vague line from a movie with no on screen presence or evidence of off screen presence.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
The Thing lets itself be impregnated... Why matters not.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
Even more likely, the embryo would just be assimilated the second the 'Alien proteins' were administered.
You seem confused. You never said those things. I did.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 10:37:55 PM
I don't think so, the Xenomorph is not only a inorganic entity, but it also has a powerful immune system. We have seen that the Thing can not assimilate inorganic material, we also have seen in the Special edition of the Thing that when it is assimilating something, it no longer has cells in its body, since that is the case it can't be imitating the Alien and assimilating at the same time.
The Alien is an organic entity. It's not a sword, or a brick. It had a
life cycle. It's purpose is to breed. To survive. Nothing inorganic tries to survive because it was never alive to begin with. The Alien is an organism. A life form. Not some robot or machine.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
Nope. Sorry. Even with that interesting glimmer of hope from a xeno borrowing 'enough' of The Things power from an embryo DNA heist ... it's still woefully ignorant to believe the xeno strain could be anything more than 'the next assimilation' in the abyssal cosmic eye of The Thing.
Quoting me again as yourself. I had to catch myself from responding to myself. ;D
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
A couple other things to point out is that the thing is a sentient creature. It has shown a great desire to survive and in effect has shown that it has a fear of death, otherwise it would not become separate creatures if the main body is going to die. The reason I point this out is because the Aliens have shown to be cosmic horrors, they have caused people to have constant horrifying dreams about them, even if said people had never seen or heard of a Xenomorph. The Queen Mother was able to even manipulate people through there dreams, possibly even causing them to go insane.
More unimaginative sprinkles from the lesser peddlers of comics. If those ideas had any legitimacy they would have bet money of putting it into a film. Something more risky than a couple hundred pages of Alien themed pulp. And to say that The Thing is 'afraid' is stretching the definition of survival instincts. By that rational everything from brine shrimp to human beings are afraid of death. Rather, a instinctual desire/program to survive. Everything living has it. Even fictional living things. Even the Aliens, who by your definition aren't even alive.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
Another thing to point out is that if IF the Thing actually was able to assimilate a Xenomorph and it tried to infiltrate the hive, it would be detected immediately.
Unlikely. Considering The Thing imitates it's prey perfectly in everyday. Everything the prey knows The Thing learns and applies to it's already vast amount of knowledge. The Alien's learning curve just wouldn't keep up.
You go on to quote and reference the magnificently written and illustrated Aliens: Labyrinth. But in doing so you shoot holes in your own statement:
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
but it also has a powerful immune system.
about the Aliens being immune to disease because of their super spiffy 'bio-imperative' fueled immune systems. ;) But that's okay. You get a pass because as great as the story was, it was still a comic book and doesn't count. It should also be noted that they cannibalized that comic in many ways for the film Alien:Resurrection. Which as a result, was very comic bookey. And there for less compelling and campy.
[/quote]
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
I see a confrontation ending two ways between these two.
1)The Aliens kill off all the Things on the planet they are on, the Thing has no capabilities to assimilate the Alien let alone kill it. The Thing becomes desperate and tries to kill the Xenomorphs outright instead of assimilating them. The Aliens adapt ether using Acid based attacks and defenses more, AND or developing a anti-Thing enzyme that flat out drops the thing to a 0 threat level and becomes extinct.
2)The Thing becomes a bottom feeder on the planet it shares with the Xenomorphs. This is the same thing that happened with the Metroids and the Parasite X in the Metroid series. Parasite X is exactly like the Thing except it floats through the air. The Metroids were impurvious to Parasites X attacks, so Parasite X went under gournd and stayed in hibernation and or attacked only the lowest lifeforms on the food chain on the planet it was on.
1) It's like you don't even read the other posts in this thread and just keep on truckin' with this unbelievable fanboy stuff. You actually typed out "Anti-Thing enzyme." and for that I juuuust cannot bring myself to continue responding to these types of posts logically.
2) ... uh. Just no.
Edit*
Nero, Xenomrph. You make good points that I missed pointing out. Especially with bones on a molecular level. Fatality post right there!
Only Fire can kill The Thing, or as done in the book "Who Goes There?" for the blood drops and small parts, dissolved with sulphuric acid or destroyed by electricity.
Xenomorph acid would be very effective on The Thing.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 11:51:45 PM
If it's each little bit working in concert to imitate one organism, then the Alien wouldn't be able to tell the difference since it's a perfect imitation down to the smallest detail.
That doesn't hide the fact that it, The Thing is made up of multiple different consciousness.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 11:51:45 PM
Similarly, people are an amalgamation of billions of cells working together to create a person, the difference is that those individual cells don't break off and do their own thing if separated from the whole.
The Thing is very different from other creatures in the fact that human blood cells do not think and that goes for most other creatures to.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 11:51:45 PM
It works more often than it doesn't, though - there's also the robotic Aliens (Jerry from 'Aliens: Stronghold' and the one from 'Aliens: Harvest' whose name I'm forgetting) who successfully infiltrated Alien hives and interacted with real Aliens numerous times based on pheromones alone.
Yeah Jerry was more than likely made from Xenomorphs.
QuoteSilicon is inorganic material
Not (http://www.docteur-saubens.com/organic-silicon.html) exactly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organosilicon). :)
[/quote]
I would not trust a thing Docteur saubens had to say.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 02, 2012, 12:20:02 AM
I said an Alien not Aliens and there is no proof those doors were stronger than those in present day, nothing in that film say it is.
Bull an Alien Warrior in AvP:R easily rammed through 6 inchs of steel instantly. It took them a bit longer in Aliens to break 3 inchs of steel ergo steel is much better in the future.
Armored Quartz has a compression strength of 160,000 p.s.i. One Alien Warrior with one punch punched right through it. The strongest steel we have now is 3 times stronger than conventional steel. Ergo steel that is made during the time of Aliens is a lot stronger.
1018 Mild Steel
Yield Strength, psi 53,700 x 3 = 161,100 p.s.i.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 02, 2012, 12:20:02 AM
The Thing is mostly immune to physical damage, it will just alter its form. An alien wouldn't have much of a chance, regardless if it could kill that other guy.
Yes the Aliens would be able to break free easily from the thing if it grapples the Alien. It will have to deal with the fact that alien can and will adapt to fighting the Thing, ether the Thing will die out OR it will go into hiding only attacking the creatures that or in the bottom of the food chain on the planet they are on.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 02, 2012, 01:33:28 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 01, 2012, 11:51:45 PM
If it's each little bit working in concert to imitate one organism, then the Alien wouldn't be able to tell the difference since it's a perfect imitation down to the smallest detail.
That doesn't hide the fact that it, The Thing is made up of multiple different consciousness.
The Thing is very different from other creatures in the fact that human blood cells do not think and that goes for most other creatures to.
neither does the thing. the drops of blood jumped instinctively when McReady burned them. that means they had no idea they even had to hide, that they were in danger, they just reacted like a microorganism would, escaping from the harm. they were not smart, only alive. they are as smart as the size of the form they take allows, thus, they only start being truly smart once grouped in a complex organism and then, they act like one big brain.
QuoteYeah Jerry was more than likely made from Xenomorphs.
nothing indicates that. it's wishful thinking.
QuoteI would not trust a thing Docteur saubens had to say.
good for you, now present a rebutal.
and again, Psi are messures of PRESSURE. those resistance numbers correspond to a general uniform force applied from a large mass of fluid. not localized, precise forces like a hit from the alien's head or their claws. they would help if they were the resistance of certain sector of material, for example, 160,000 p.s.i.
per square centimeter.and the thing is not something that has to hide. it's a freaking spore. an alien could kill one and it would be covered in things, every particle, every single cell can regenerate provided it has something to consume. an alien could slash it, stab it, rip it, tear it, chop it, crush it and it would still be alive, because, as the laws of conservation state, matter cannot be destroyed or created, only transformed, and the only transformation that can hurt the thing is the chemical one.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 02, 2012, 12:26:25 AM
Predalien's haven't been portrayed in any media that any right thinking individual would consider canon to either Alien or Predator franchises, respectfully. Regardless of what Magic Powers they have in comic books or some half baked script. They do no exist in this dojo.
Yes they do exist in the same universe. The Aliens: Saga special feature that comes with the Aliens Anthology set confirms that the games, comics, novels, and movies are in the Same Saga.
Like I was saying once the Thing has to started dealing with Xenomorphs that use Acids regularly or adapt to using them, the Thing will be doomed.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
It's hard to see what your saying in this post. English be damned, but I see "AvP:R" and more "Predalien" stuff and now poison tails. Most of that didn't even happen in the AVP films (which continue to be invalid into this paragraph.) So I can only image that these are comic book attempts at expanding the classic canon.
It did happen actually, the producer and directors of AvP:R in the commentary said that the Predalien Queen has infectious bacterial poison in its tail blade, and that said poison kills Dallas younger brother.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
ve expansion on a vague line from a movie with no on screen presence or evidence of off screen presence.
If you are talking about 'Bio-Imperatives' we have seen it in the movies, why do you think that aliens change appearances movie to movie, before you say it I am talking about a in universe explanation. Anyway we have seen Aliens use "Bio-Imperatives" in extreme cases in AvP:E, AvP arcade, Aliens: Colonial Marines, Aliens: Once in a lifetime, maybe Aliens: Kidnapped, limited degree Aliens: Purge.
Now if you keep ignoring the full capabilities of the Xenomorphs you will end up forfeiting this argument.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
You seem confused. You never said those things. I did.
No the following comment that I am not deleting below this comment, was in response to both the comments that you made that appeared un-commented on.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 10:37:55 PM
I don't think so, the Xenomorph is not only a inorganic entity, but it also has a powerful immune system. We have seen that the Thing can not assimilate inorganic material, we also have seen in the Special edition of the Thing that when it is assimilating something, it no longer has cells in its body, since that is the case it can't be imitating the Alien and assimilating at the same time.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
The Alien is an organic entity. It's not a sword, or a brick. It had a life cycle. It's purpose is to breed. To survive. Nothing inorganic tries to survive because it was never alive to begin with. The Alien is an organism. A life form. Not some robot or machine.
Actually they are very close to being considered Bioroids.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110915091625.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110915091625.htm)
Also if you read a part of my comment that "they are based similarly to Silicon-Carbon based life," you may not have noticed I put similar in that sentence.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 01, 2012, 07:46:01 AM
A couple other things to point out is that the thing is a sentient creature. It has shown a great desire to survive and in effect has shown that it has a fear of death, otherwise it would not become separate creatures if the main body is going to die. The reason I point this out is because the Aliens have shown to be cosmic horrors, they have caused people to have constant horrifying dreams about them, even if said people had never seen or heard of a Xenomorph. The Queen Mother was able to even manipulate people through there dreams, possibly even causing them to go insane.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
More unimaginative sprinkles from the lesser peddlers of comics. If those ideas had any legitimacy they would have bet money of putting it into a film. Something more risky than a couple hundred pages of Alien themed pulp.
It matters not that it was not in the film, it is in the Saga.
sa·ga/ˈsägə/
Noun:
A long story of heroic achievement.
A long, involved story, account, or series of incidents.
Examples of the word Saga being used.
"We've stuck to a very clear branding strategy for the past decade. This is Star Wars. Individual movies come and go, as do TV shows, video games, books. They all contribute to the lore of Star Wars, but in the end it is one saga and that saga is called Star Wars. We've wanted to send a clear message to our fans that everything we do is part of that overall saga."
―Jim Ward
"This might be the third installment of the "Men in Black" saga, but it's going to be taking fans back in time. These stills don't do a great job of showcasing when "Men in Black 3″ is about, i.e. J traveling back in time to save K and, virtually, the whole world. Still, it's nice to see Jones and Smith back in black, replete with shades, crazy guns and memory-erasing devices."
―IFC
"And today, 19 December 2001, it comes to theaters that which is, both consciously and unconsciously, perhaps the most awaited film of the whole history of cinema, the movie that some million people have been unaware to be waiting for since years, or even hoped to be finally (and after a few disappointing false starts) brought to life by some director: The Lord of the Rings – now its first episode, The Fellowship of the Ring –, from the J.R.R. Tolkien's saga bearing the same title."
―C.E.S.N.U.R.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 04:36:20 PM
And to say that The Thing is 'afraid' is stretching the definition of survival instincts. By that rational everything from brine shrimp to human beings are afraid of death. Rather, a instinctual desire/program to survive. Everything living has it. Even fictional living things. Even the Aliens, who by your definition aren't even alive.
QuoteSelf-preservation is behavior that ensures the survival of an organism. It is universal among living organisms.[citation needed] Pain and fear are parts of this mechanism.
QuoteFear causes the organism to seek safety and may cause a release of adrenaline, which has the effect of increased strength and heightened senses such as hearing, smell, and sight. Self-preservation may also be interpreted figuratively; in regard to the coping mechanisms one needs to prevent emotional trauma from distorting the mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-preservation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-preservation)
Yes I would say fear effects the Thing.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 02, 2012, 12:26:25 AM
Unlikely. Considering The Thing imitates it's prey perfectly in everyday. Everything the prey knows The Thing learns and applies to it's already vast amount of knowledge. The Alien's learning curve just wouldn't keep up.
Well since you have been trying to pull the non-card with me on things that are canon, I will point out that never has it been said that the Thing "Perfectly Imitates it's host". There is no reason that the thing would be able to mask all its thoughts or intentions from psychic creatures. The Things Learing curve is not going to help it in this fight, especially if the Aliens have come from a host that was already brilliant, or a extremely deadly combatant.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 02, 2012, 12:26:25 AM
You go on to quote and reference the magnificently written and illustrated Aliens: Labyrinth. But in doing so you shoot holes in your own statement
I see your one of those type of debaters that tries to intimidate the other person, and or make them doubt there own sources. Yeah it is not working :)
P.S. You are talking about the Black mold I presume, well funny-thing about that is that it took a very long time for it to kill a already dysfunctional hive. Dr. Church tried weaponizing it to use on normal hives, it never worked.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 02, 2012, 12:26:25 AM
about the Aliens being immune to disease because of their super spiffy 'bio-imperative' fueled immune systems. ;) But that's okay. You get a pass because as great as the story was, it was still a comic book and doesn't count.
It does count ;)
The Aliens: Saga special feature that comes with the Aliens Anthology set confirms that the games, comics, novels, and movies are in the Same Saga.
sa·ga/ˈsägə/
Noun:
A long story of heroic achievement.
A long, involved story, account, or series of incidents.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 02, 2012, 12:26:25 AM
It should also be noted that they cannibalized that comic in many ways for the film Alien:Resurrection. Which as a result, was very comic bookey. And there for less compelling and campy.
Well it was written by Joss Whedon, the guy that has written X-men comics and is working on the Avengers movie.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 02, 2012, 12:26:25 AM
1) It's like you don't even read the other posts in this thread and just keep on truckin' with this unbelievable fanboy stuff.
I used Canon material, but to call me a fanboy when you are obviously a "Thing" fanboy is hypocritical.
I did read the other post, they had errors.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 02, 2012, 12:26:25 AM
You actually typed out "Anti-Thing enzyme." and for that I juuuust cannot bring myself to continue responding to these types of posts logically.
2) ... uh. Just no.
Not that I needed you to confirm it, but if you can't come up with a canon way for the Thing to annihilate the Xenomorph species, you should come to terms that it is true and move on. :)
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 02, 2012, 12:26:25 AM
Nero, Xenomrph. You make good points that I missed pointing out. Especially with bones on a molecular level. Fatality post right there!
The problem with the Thing is that it can't assimilate the Alien when it is emulating one, which means pretty much it flat out cant assimilate an Alien. They should in the Special edition of the Thing that when it is assimilating something it has no cells, it is not emulating anything, ergo it is not immune to acids nor the other biological weapons Xenomorphs use.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AM
neither does the thing. the drops of blood jumped instinctively when McReady burned them. that means they had no idea they even had to hide, that they were in danger, they just reacted like a microorganism would, escaping from the harm. they were not smart, only alive. they are as smart as the size of the form they take allows, thus, they only start being truly smart once grouped in a complex organism and then, they act like one big brain.
What I am getting as it the parts act independently from each other.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AMYeah Jerry was more than likely made from Xenomorphs.
nothing indicates that. it's wishful thinking.[/quote]
Aliens: Purge. The Doctor involved with the operations pointed out that both the morphology of the Aliens and Androids is heavily based on Silicon polymers. He was able to influence how cloned Queen Aliens developed after learning that fact. There is a good chance the tech that built Jerry also knew about the similarities and cloned most of the parts he needed to build Jerry from Aliens.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AM
good for you, now present a rebutal.
The website looks like a infomercial website. Besides that I think you missed a couple things I pointed out.
Organic silicon aka Silica is Silicon dioxide, which is a oxide of silicon.
An oxide (play /ˈɒksaɪd/) is a chemical compound that contains at least one oxygen atom and one other element in its chemical formula
The creatures biology is H2So4 / HF [H20]
*H2So4 is Sulfuric acid which has no carbon in it.
*HF is Hydrogen fluoride which has no carbon in it.
*[H20] is Water, it doesn't have carbon in it.
All of these are inorganic.
It appears to be similar to carbon-silicon based life. The key word is similar to.
Its morphology is heavily based off Silicon polymers.
Notice it says Silicon not Organic silicon or Silica or Silicon dioxide.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AM
and again, Psi are messures of PRESSURE. those resistance numbers correspond to a general uniform force applied from a large mass of fluid. not localized, precise forces like a hit from the alien's head or their claws. they would help if they were the resistance of certain sector of material, for example, 160,000 p.s.i. per square centimeter.
P.S.I. is Pounds per Square Inch, not per square centimeter.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AM
and the thing is not something that has to hide. it's a freaking spore. an alien could kill one and it would be covered in things, every particle, every single cell can regenerate provided it has something to consume. an alien could slash it, stab it, rip it, tear it, chop it, crush it and it would still be alive, because, as the laws of conservation state, matter cannot be destroyed or created, only transformed, and the only transformation that can hurt the thing is the chemical one.
That is why I mentioned the Aliens that as standard have massive acid spewing capabilities, and also mentioned that Aliens can adapt to use lots of acid more often. In addition to this the Aliens can adapt to make a anti-thing enzyme. They have adapted to many many different types of problems before, this will not be a big problem for them ether.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AM
neither does the thing. the drops of blood jumped instinctively when McReady burned them. that means they had no idea they even had to hide, that they were in danger, they just reacted like a microorganism would, escaping from the harm. they were not smart, only alive. they are as smart as the size of the form they take allows, thus, they only start being truly smart once grouped in a complex organism and then, they act like one big brain.
What I am getting as it the parts act independently from each other.
[/quote]
so like a normal body.
Quote
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AMYeah Jerry was more than likely made from Xenomorphs.
nothing indicates that. it's wishful thinking.
Aliens: Purge. The Doctor involved with the operations pointed out that both the morphology of the Aliens and Androids is heavily based on Silicon polymers. He was able to influence how cloned Queen Aliens developed after learning that fact. There is a good chance the tech that built Jerry also knew about the similarities and cloned most of the parts he needed to build Jerry from Aliens.
[/quote]
why would you even acknowledge that comic? anyways, Purge is set way after the events in hive and stronghold, Jerri is not related.
Quote
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AM
good for you, now present a rebutal.
The website looks like a infomercial website. Besides that I think you missed a couple things I pointed out.
Organic silicon aka Silica is Silicon dioxide, which is a oxide of silicon.
An oxide (play /ˈɒksaɪd/) is a chemical compound that contains at least one oxygen atom and one other element in its chemical formula
The creatures biology is H2So4 / HF [H20]
*H2So4 is Sulfuric acid which has no carbon in it.
*HF is Hydrogen fluoride which has no carbon in it.
*[H20] is Water, it doesn't have carbon in it.
All of these are inorganic.
It appears to be similar to carbon-silicon based life. The key word is similar to.
Its morphology is heavily based off Silicon polymers.
Notice it says Silicon not Organic silicon or Silica or Silicon dioxide.
where did you get that creature biology from?
Quote
P.S.I. is Pounds per Square Inch, not per square centimeter.
i missworded i'll give you that.
Quote
That is why I mentioned the Aliens that as standard have massive acid spewing capabilities, and also mentioned that Aliens can adapt to use lots of acid more often. In addition to this the Aliens can adapt to make a anti-thing enzyme. They have adapted to many many different types of problems before, this will not be a big problem for them ether.
can you back any of these claims with sources? how about if an alien faces a thing physically larger than it? how could it spew more acid than it's body volume can contain? how can the alien adapt an enzime fast enough to counteract the assimilation? where was this shown?
Quote
Predalien's haven't been portrayed in any media that any right thinking individual would consider canon to either Alien or Predator franchises, respectfully. Regardless of what Magic Powers they have in comic books or some half baked script. They do no exist in this dojo.
Yes it does, the EU stuff is fair game in this part of the forum. :P
QuoteYeah Jerry was more than likely made from Xenomorphs.
No, he's a robot, same model as the one from Harvest. He's designed to
look like an Alien, but he's definitely
not an Alien. The comics are very clear on that point.
QuoteI would not trust a thing Docteur saubens had to say.
Why not, exactly?
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 10:06:06 PM
Absolutely! You have to take into consideration the collected intelligence of The Thing on top of it's already 'top of the food chain' credentials. [...]
Yeah, I was more like talking about the availability of those tools in the environment more than anything.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 10:06:06 PM
if it can be killed by a sword, it must be alive enough to die. lol. Retarded wording I know, but I'm sure you get the point!
:laugh: I do I do. I thought the flames would be enough for any Thing to back out.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 10:06:06 PM
Someone should change the name of this thread to "The Thing Versus _____"
YES! Much more fun that way. 8)
Alien's appearance is more likely age than anything else and i have not seen them adapt in the way you say kingangel, and even if and that is a big if, they could adapt to fight a thing, you forgot two things, 1) The thing would kill an alien right there and then so it would have no time to adapt. 2) a thing is potentially far stronger than a xenomorph due to the potential size of the creature, even a man sized thing easily picked up a man (with just its head) and killed him. Xenomorphs are deadly creatures who are awesome but the likelihood of a single xenomorph which only has its tail, claws and inner jaw to work with against a creature than can have any appendage or limb it wants is pretty much telling how such an encounter would end, the alien being able to spit acid would only effect the area of the thing it hit, so unless an alien can spew up more than its body size in acid then it has no chance.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 02, 2012, 06:09:23 AM
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 10:06:06 PM
Absolutely! You have to take into consideration the collected intelligence of The Thing on top of it's already 'top of the food chain' credentials. [...]
Yeah, I was more like talking about the availability of those tools in the environment more than anything.
Which is why you should have finished quoting me. ;D
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 10:06:06 PM
I'm sure it could figure out fire resistant shield. Especially in a world/realm of Dragons where such scales and crafts would be readily available.
And that would be everywhere a dragon would be. Or at least, where ever a dragon's territory overlapped with a being capable of using said materials for offensive/defensive purposes.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 10:06:06 PM
if it can be killed by a sword, it must be alive enough to die. lol. Retarded wording I know, but I'm sure you get the point!
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 02, 2012, 06:09:23 AM
:laugh: I do I do. I thought the flames would be enough for any Thing to back out.
True. The Thing would have to do what it does best and perfectly imitate the dragons next meal. Perhaps a deer, or some other sizable woodland creature high in protein. ;D Unless the dragon in question is from Reign of Fire, wherein they eat f**king ash. :-\ Then The Thing would have to copy Matthew McConaughey and learn his super fly axe attack! ;D
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 01, 2012, 10:06:06 PM
Someone should change the name of this thread to "The Thing Versus _____"
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 02, 2012, 06:09:23 AM
YES! Much more fun that way. 8)
Well that's up to the thread's creator! *blink blink*
And as entertaining at is was
KingAngel ofthe Outergulf our exchange has become more work than what's it's worth. I am the Alien and you are The Thing and I shrivel in your superior ability to copy and paste (the perfect imitation) irrelevant information and your complete lack of logical symmetry.
When all you had to say was their magical bio-imparative enables them to learn how to throw dynamite.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1208.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc377%2FBatChainPuller%2FThingFU2.gif&hash=e6a5cb80b83d1dd071debb818b67529724310259)
I must have expressed myself wrongly. I wanted to say that it is not a given that those instruments and tools are available during the Fight.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 05:12:27 AM
so like a normal body.
Every little bit of it is a creature, the more of this creature that sticks to gather the more intelligent it is. That is why the smaller ones are not quite smart enough to escape danger.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AMYeah Jerry was
why would you even acknowledge that comic? anyways, Purge is set way after the events in hive and stronghold, Jerri is not related.
No both scientists in the stories they are featured in have a superior understanding of the creature than 90% of the people in the Alien Predator universe. They will have very similar if not the same findings up to a point. The Doctor in Purge is superior to the ones in Hive and Stronghold.
I acknowledge that comic because it is in the Saga, and it supports my own research on the Intervacius-Raptus.
By the way I did a checkup on all the equipment humans use to INFILTRATE hives.
It only works if you don't move, and/or make sounds. Even then the Royal Guard knew something was wrong with Norbert and attacked it. Same with the guys in Stronghold, they could not be around the creatures AND use their devices and expect them to work. Even Jerry is attacked and from what I is seen of him he ether avoids contact with Aliens and or doesn't move when they are around so to not be attacked by Xenomorphs.
Same guys for Grant corps infrasonic suppression equipment. You do anything threatening around them and/or make loud noises you are dead.
This is why all the Marines and other branches of the United Americas are not equipped with any of this equipment because it will be dead weight to them, it will not help them in the end.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AM
where did you get that creature biology from?
The first disc in the Alien anthology set "Alien".
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AM
i missworded i'll give you that.
Also P.S.I. is not calculated with only fluids, it is anything that exerts Force.
For instance a morningstar can delver 1300 psi on an object/target.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AM
can you back any of these claims with sources?
Every movie, comic, book, and game with the Alien in it. For instance in AvP:E it is said in the lore that the Queen has access to vast biological database for evolutionary responses for uses against the hives enemies.
QuoteThe Ravager is presumed to be the Intervacius-Raptus evolutionary response to the heavier military equipment brought to bear by more advanced species. This massive beast towers above other Intervacius-Raptuss and is uniquely terrifying presence in battle. Instead of just having hands, its upper extremities terminate in "hull blades" capable of easily slicing through even advanced armors and metals. A Ravager is developed from a Praetorian.
It can evolve into a Colossal Ravager.
QuoteA Colossal Resilience to damage including Energy and Heat based weapons, and an immunity to all weapons but heavy caliber weapons because of a new chitinous shell that has formed over the skin.
An ability to perform a rapid internal restorative process called regenesis. Regenesis causes a severely damaged Ravager to enter a cataleptic state instead of dying. If a cataleptic Ravager avoids sufficient additional damage, it rapidly rebuilds itself and returns to battle. Decapitated Ravagers can not enter regenesis, nor can a Ravager succeed in its restoration if attacked with fire based weapons.
The things that Aliens can do to evolve is limitless.
Onslaught Genome
QuoteWhen needed Human based Warriors can evolve to become more suitable for heavy assault. First it develops hardened chitinous ridges that enable it to penetrate tougher armors. Second it develops a redundant vascular life support system, enabling it to continue fighting even after sustaining crippling damage including limb loss. Third, it improves its already amazing abilities to regenerate itself with the add assistance from hive web. The Later two abilities combine to enable the creature to regenerate lost limbs and return to perfect health fast through sustained healing at the hive.
Stalker
QuoteA larger, slightly more agile and stronger verson of the Alien warrior.
Alien Arachnoid
QuoteA special evolution of the Alien species that is equipped with stronger leg muscles, allowing for quicker movement and high jumps.
Smasher
QuoteThis special evolution of the Alien species is equipped with a reinforced caparace above the skull.
Defender
QuoteThis special evolution of the Alien species is equipped with reinforced arm caparace, allowing for them to literally "block" most attacks (including some gunfire shots)
Chrysalis
QuoteThe Chrysalis is a special spawn of the Alien queen that has a circular exoskeleton caparace, allowing it to do flips through the floor and ram opponents. It also hops around and uses its claws, fangs, and tail to attack enemies. Beware!
Razor Claw
QuoteThe Alien known as Razor Claws by the human soldiers is an abomination in genetic mutation. Through a genetic malfunction in the cocoon process, this Alien was born with extraordinary claws, which are razor-sharp.
Few things to point out about the Razor claw is that more than ac couple possible appear in Aliens: Rogue AND the Wraith Aliens look similar to a Razor Claws.
This is only the tip of the iceberg
1)The can evolve in more ways than this.
2)These were the ones that came from humans, think about that.
In Aliens: Once in a lifetime, the main character hypothesis that the Aliens have a bio-imperatives, which is heavily confirmed in AvP:E, Aliens: Once in a lifetime, AvP:Arcade, AvP:D.O.T.S., Aliens: Purge, really every story in every medium, which is also why the Predaliens physical features and functions change.
Alternatively instead of using a enzyme to protect themselves from the Thing, they could instead just use mutagenic acids like the Oswoc Drone does. Not only would it burn the Thing but if any parts survives they will be covered in tumors, effectively making it impossible for those parts to function.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 02:18:59 AM
how about if an alien faces a thing physically larger than it?
By that point the Thing will have to deal with the whole hive. If this hive is on a planet with a pro-life Eco system that the Aliens have taken over like "Xenomorph Prime" there are so many Aliens on it that when they are all active the surface of the planet is completely blocked from view, only the tops of mountains can be seen.
Earth, Salazar VII, LV-1201, LV-742 also had insanely high and growing populations of Xenomorphs. Once the Xenomorphs take control of the ecosystem of a planet you are not getting it back without heavy heavy loss. I might add out of all the planets that I mentioned only Earth was EVENTUALLY taken back, this similar story has playout out on many many many planets. They have after all wiped out all advanced space fair life in the Galaxy and or Universe almost instantly
during the times before man could go into space.
Look at this, this is Blairs 2nd projection.
QuoteProjection: if intruder organism reaches civilized areas...
entire world population infected 27,000 hours from first contact
The Xenomorphs did what the Thing did in a fraction of the time on Earth, against hostile terrestrial life.
I will also point out that the largest Thing was the Cloud B4 carrier, aliens that come from Crocodiles, most likely any Reptile, large animals, Wraiths, Pilots, and Whales that are warriors will dwarf Cloud BF carrier. If they evolve into other types of Xenomorphs including a Queen or even the rare War Empress it would make Cloud B4 carrier look like a twig.
Also Cloud B4 carrier appears to be immobile.
Now if we are talking about planets were Aliens can not make a large hive because the place they have has a Eco-system that does not support life, the thing can only target Xenomorphs. It is doomed to fail here because it cant
1)Assimilate inorganic material
2)Prevent the very acidic acids from burning it.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 05:12:27 AM
how could it spew more acid than it's body volume can contain?
They apparently regenerate said Acid quickly.
Look how much a Pilot Alien spews out, most Things that I have seen will be dead very quickly from that much acid.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120202213144/avp/images/c/cb/Sans_titre3.jpg (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120202213144/avp/images/c/cb/Sans_titre3.jpg)
Pratarions spew out close to that amount.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 02, 2012, 05:12:27 AM
how can the alien adapt an enzime fast enough to counteract the assimilation? where was this shown?
The Alien itself or when a Queen is around, can evolve just as quickly as the grow, and from what we have seen and red, The plan out their attacks very quickly and in depth, they see farther than 2 min into there attacks. This is especially true for the Queen Mother, she is able to observe events psychically from the other end of Galaxy. She has even manipulated the main characters to do her biding.
Aliens:Hive
QuoteHere They come. "Gill, that is the aperture through the field. Do You see It? "Classic strategy. Potter didn't anticipate their cleverness. "Have you ever seen anything move so quickly? "They'll never even know what hit them. "I would hate to encounter the Predator that acid defense was evolved to thwart." It's over quickly for most. But some of them aren't so lucky.
Aliens:Hive
QuoteAt first only one or two moved. But others joined quickly... A mute understanding passing among them... An understanding born of ritualized and tactile communication. Their mass built geometrically until they formed a living wall.*
Aliens: Outbreak
QuoteEvidently the Alien Queen is able to communicate in some subconscious fashion. With other species. In human beings, these disseminations manifest themselves in the form of pattern nightmares. The dreams were a lure. At first we thought we'd be able to contain the spore. Infestation seemed limited to a narrow geographic range. And yet for every cluster we found there were ten more just like it.
Aliens: Outbreak
QuoteThe Alien's subconscious bait transcended class and political boundaries. We found hives everywhere. With each new discovery, out hope of destroying the creatures before they entered the civilian population faded. However we still considered containment an option. In studying the bionational file we learned their Queen gestated a number of weeks prior to maturation. Using their experiment as a baseline, I assumed we still had time before any New Queens would become viable. I was wrong.
Aliens: Outbreak
QuotePerhaps our worst mistake was underestimating the sheer instinctual cunning of the creatures. We didn't see the underlying Pattern behind their evolutionary process--the way every facet of their existence was geared toward propagation. The Queens Matured at whatever speed their survival dictated. We had assumed the gestation period was time for the Alien embryo to feed and grow, but it was more than that. I was an opportunity for the unknowing host to spread it's spore to other sites.
Aliens: Outbreak
QuoteThe civilian authority was weak in the face of the devastation. When the Generals finally stage their coup it seemed almost--welcome. The military created testing centers where physicians checked civilians for signs of the Alien infection. At first the test were voluntary. Within days that changed. There were rumors the military was using the pretext of aline infection to eliminate political dissident--the poor, the diasaffected--As if such petty rivalries even mattered.
Aliens: Outbreak
QuoteVital services--water, electricity-- began to fail. We've heard of infestations in Europe, Australia. The seed is growing with remarkable speed. From all this I've come to understand something about humanity. Man is an animal, driven by animal passions. "Civilization" is a pathetic charge of manners, predicated on a tissue--thin veil of lies. In the future--if there is a future-- historians may blame out failures on some external cause--the Aliens. Bionational. Fate. I know the truth. Those things didn't destroy us. We did.
Aliens: Outbreak
QuoteDamn them damn them all to hell. They thought they could breed the monsters. The monsters were breading us!
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
QuoteI watched them disappear in the darkness. I let them Go--I wanted them to go. The Alien is the only one I can trust. Their loyalty transcends human treachery. Together, we will form a new world. I will lead man and alien alike toward a new glory, a new beginning--A better tomorrow! Some of course, will perish in the terrible struggle ahead. I know that. I respect it.--But In the end, we will prevail. I can hear the adulation of the masses as I rescue them from their misery. I can hear their cries of joy as I inspire them to rebuild out world. I could feel their love, their admiration--their fear. We ere on the cusp of a truly historic moment--when the tide would turn against the human disorganization of the past--my boys would make us proud again.
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
QuoteSquad--come to order! The time has come to prove yourselves--to show your commanding officer all you have learned. We must give no quarter. The others are your enemies. They must be destroyed! ATTACK! I gave you a direct order!
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
QuoteThe Old Guard must be overthrown-- they must be defeated--! I see now-- she's trying to turn you against me--You fility bitch! My God you used me-- You wanted your precious children back and I--I Brought them to you-- The tracked Spreas' ship to Earth--and then there was nothing. His revolution ended before it had a chance to begin. The alien wouldn't allow it.
Aliens: Female War
Quote--I felt her strength. Her utter supremacy. The pilot of the deflect ship had discovered the aliens genesis--the source of their power.
Aliens: Female War
QuoteWe assumed the Alien infestations were sporadic, arbitrary-- that they bred wherever convenient, like some horrible cancers. We were WRONG. They Move with PURPOSE. She's calling her children back to her."
Aliens: Female War
Quote--It's me you want. Billie--move over here with me. That's why you had your babies keep the little girl alive-- you knew we'd come for her.
It doesn't matter how many xenomorphs there are, unless they can kill every single cell of a thing, it won't die, snap the neck or crush a xenomorph and it ain't getting back up. Xenomorphs are not smart enough to kill a thing and said thing would overtake a world far faster than a xenomorph as its more infectious. A single cell if the thing can take over a human.
humans have killed aliens with bullets and ballistic weapons, the same can't be said with thing.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 02, 2012, 02:31:38 PM
Alien's appearance is more likely age than anything else and i have not seen them adapt in the way you say kingangel,
*The Aliens in Alien, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, AvP, and AvP:R, have more pointed nails which will allow them to puncture armor much better than the Alien warriors in Aliens which had much broader nails which would be good for gouging more flesh out.
*The Aliens in Alien Resurrection, AvP, and AvP:R have better rudder control underwater than the others.
*The Aliens in AvP:R have developed more armor than the others in a similar way that Warriors with the Onslaught Genome have.
*The Queen in Alien Resurrection was unintentionally evolved in a way that alowed her to bare creatures similar in size to a human based warrior.
*The Warriors in AvP and AvP:R have very very heavy tail blades, all creatures in the movies have unknown venom capabilities except for the Queen Predalien.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 02, 2012, 02:31:38 PM
1) The thing would kill an alien right there and then so it would have no time to adapt.
Once one knows about the Thing the rest will too, if the Queen and or Queen Mother didn't know already. The Thing can't afford to kill an Alien least it risk its own death from the acid.
Yeah and there are also many many more types of Alien than just the human types. Lots of them overall in Warrior form much larger than the largest Thing.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 02, 2012, 02:31:38 PM
2) a thing is potentially far stronger than a xenomorph due to the potential size of the creature, even a man sized thing easily picked up a man (with just its head) and killed him.
The Thing is weak compared to all but the chestbursters and facehuggers. The Alien in Alien was walking on a chain that was hanging from a ceiling with just its feat, supporting its own body weight and then Brett.
Not to mention the fact that Aliens in Aliens punched/rammed through advanced steel doors that were between 2 inchs - 3 inches, and the pressure door which is around 6-7 inchs. And A armored Quartz window with a compression p.s.i. of 160,000.
In Colonial: Marines a Queen without effort rammed through a steel wall 2 feet thick in the game play preview.
A Ravager is know for carving up the titanium hulls of space ships real easy.
Take in mind these are only the HUMAN Based ones.
Predaliens are insanely stronger, Predalien Warrior BG-386, could shake a entire room when it hit the ground with its fists.
The Praetorian-Gorilla Alien had similar physical capabilities.
The Bigger the animal the stronger and bigger the Alien. Biggest so far are the Whale Aliens. I do not see the thing doing anything to the Warriors of this type let alone Ravagers or Queens.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 02, 2012, 02:31:38 PM
Xenomorphs are deadly creatures who are awesome but the likelihood of a single xenomorph which only has its tail, claws and inner jaw to work with against a creature than can have any appendage or limb it wants is pretty much telling how such an encounter would end, the alien being able to spit acid would only effect the area of the thing it hit, so unless an alien can spew up more than its body size in acid then it has no chance.
The major problem with the Thing is is that even though it can have more limbs than an Alien, most are not going to be able to hold it down. The Thing can't afford to impale it because the acid will melt the Things parts quickly. If its fighting a Human Warrior with the Onslaught Genome, most of its body has sharp cutting blades on it for destroying armored hostiles, which can be used to get out of entanglement, AND its blood is highly pressurized, the blood is going to get on more than just the part that impaled it.
QuoteThe Thing can't afford to impale it because the acid will melt the Things parts quickly.
Since the Thing wins if any single part of it survives, why would it care if some of it got destroyed by acid if it ended up killing the Alien in the process?
Also you ignored the part about the robot Aliens (Jerri and the one from Harvest) and their ability to infiltrate hives despite obviously not being a part of the "hive mind".
The Thing is an entity made up of proto-plasmic cells, Small pieces of the The Thing will behave as independent organisms.
Now if the Xenomorph were to headbite it or slash it with it's claws, that can make it harder for the Xenomorph.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 02, 2012, 06:07:15 PM
And as entertaining at is was KingAngel ofthe Outergulf our exchange has become more work than what's it's worth. I am the Alien and you are The Thing and I shrivel in your superior ability to copy and paste (the perfect imitation) irrelevant information and your complete lack of logical symmetry.
Read everything I wrote above too Xenomorph.
Sorry this argument is more WORK than you would expect, after all this is a debate, its not ment to be EASY!
Like I said before this match will go two ways.
1)The Aliens complete destroy the the Thing. The Thing can not assimilate a Xenomorph because it is inorganic and has very very powerful acid for blood as standard. The Thing can not mask its intentions from a Xenomorph, which the Xenomorph can psychically see, it will have no hope of hiding and infiltrating. If it makes a last stand against the Xenomorphs the Thing will become extinct on that planet. Also by this time the Queen and or Xenomorphs with Bio-imperative will have evolved a counter against the Thing like anti-thing enzymes and or changing their acids to a mutagenic acid.
2)The Aliens defeat the Thing, the Thing unable to effect the Xenomorph population goes into hibernation or only feeds on the lowest creatures on the food chain on the planet the Xenomorphs occupy, avoiding Xenomorphs all together.
Quote from: Bat Chain Puller on Feb 02, 2012, 06:07:15 PM
When all you had to say was their magical bio-imparative enables them to learn how to throw dynamite.
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc377/BatChainPuller/ThingFU2.gif
No aliens can thorw just fine. What the Thing really should be afraid of are the Whiteys. Not only are the Xenomorphs but they can right from the get go use guns, fly ships, and nuke the Thing if need be.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 03:53:17 AM
QuoteThe Thing can't afford to impale it because the acid will melt the Things parts quickly.
Since the Thing wins if any single part of it survives, why would it care if some of it got destroyed by acid if it ended up killing the Alien in the process?
Also you ignored the part about the robot Aliens (Jerri and the one from Harvest) and their ability to infiltrate hives despite obviously not being a part of the "hive mind".
No you ignored my large post read that first before you continue.
We don't know that the Alien is completely inorganic, I already linked to numerous links that talk about organic silicon compounds. The entirety of your argument hinges on the Thing's inability to assimilate an Alien and you haven't proven that at all.
The Alien would have to be at least partly constituted of whatever the host was made of, since that's where it gets a lot of its initial bio-mass from (not to mention the Alien taking traits from the host and whatnot).
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 03:27:42 AM
It doesn't matter how many xenomorphs there are, unless they can kill every single cell of a thing, it won't die, snap the neck or crush a xenomorph and it ain't getting back up. Xenomorphs are not smart enough to kill a thing and said thing would overtake a world far faster than a xenomorph as its more infectious. A single cell if the thing can take over a human.
humans have killed aliens with bullets and ballistic weapons, the same can't be said with thing.
No it would not, you did not read my post above fully. It would take the thing nearly 1125 days to take over earth. The Xenomorphs did that in much much less time.
A human may have killed a Alien with a bullet but a Xenomorph has never been killed with a standard gas flamethrower, and they do survive nuclear explosions, both fission and fusion. The Thing would not.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:04:49 AM
We don't know that the Alien is completely inorganic, I already linked to numerous links that talk about organic silicon compounds. The entirety of your argument hinges on the Thing's inability to assimilate an Alien and you haven't proven that at all.
The Alien would have to be at least partly constituted of whatever the host was made of, since that's where it gets a lot of its initial bio-mass from (not to mention the Alien taking traits from the host and whatnot).
Organic silicon aka Silica is Silicon dioxide, which is a oxide of silicon.
An oxide (play /ˈɒksaɪd/) is a chemical compound that contains at least one oxygen atom and one other element in its chemical formula
The creatures biology is H2So4 / HF [H20]
*H2So4 is Sulfuric acid which has no carbon in it.
*HF is Hydrogen fluoride which has no carbon in it.
*[H20] is Water, it doesn't have carbon in it.
All of these are inorganic.
It appears to be similar to carbon-silicon based life. The key word is similar to.
Its morphology is heavily based off Silicon polymers.
Notice it says Silicon not Organic silicon or Silica or Silicon dioxide.
In chemistry everything including the equations must be exact, they are not going to throw silicon up in that equation and say it could be any. It if is the others it will say specifically what it is.
QuoteThe creatures biology is H2So4 / HF [H20]
*H2So4 is Sulfuric acid which has no carbon in it.
*HF is Hydrogen fluoride which has no carbon in it.
*[H20] is Water, it doesn't have carbon in it.
That's just its blood, and we don't know that that's actually what its blood is made of - the info you cited is from the USCM Tech Manual if I remember right, and it's entirely speculatory.
The fact remains that it would have to have some sort of organic components if it's being born from organic lifeforms and incubating/gestating inside them and drawing nutrients and materials from them, which means it's very likely that it IS an organic silicon or silicon-carbon combination.
lets remember that the thing is also an alien lifeform. it was never completely clear if it was ALL inorganic things that it couldn't copy or just certain materials like metals, such as that earing in the movie.
this is science fiction, there's an infinite amount of unknown factors that aren't or won't be shown in a movie because science is a vehicle for speculation in an artistic expression, not a subject for a factual essay. nothing can be 100% true.
There's that, too. Evidently the Thing is able to replicate clothing (characters find torn clothing, but then other characters who turn out to be Things end up wearing completely intact sets of clothes that are identical to what the character was wearing previously) and that clothing very likely includes synthetic materials. The only thing the Prequel points out that the Thing can't replicate is metal.
The creatures biology is H2So4 / HF [H20]
*H2So4 is Sulfuric acid which has no carbon in it.
*HF is Hydrogen fluoride which has no carbon in it.
*[H20] is Water, it doesn't have carbon in it.[/quote]
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:10:28 AM
That's just its blood, and we don't know that that's actually what its blood is made of - the info you cited is from the USCM Tech Manual if I remember right, and it's entirely speculatory.
No that is its biology. The creatures
biology is H2So4 / HF [H20]
No I didn't get it from the Tech manual, it is from the first disc of the Alien Anthology.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:10:28 AM
The fact remains that it would have to have some sort of organic components if it's being born from organic lifeforms and incubating/gestating inside them and drawing nutrients and materials from them, which means it's very likely that it IS an organic silicon or silicon-carbon combination.
It is not, the biology is inorganic, the morphology is inorganic. ::)
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 04, 2012, 04:17:01 AM
No I didn't get it from the Tech manual, it is from the first disc of the Alien Anthology.
and where did
they got it from?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:16:03 AM
There's that, too. Evidently the Thing is able to replicate clothing (characters find torn clothing,
There is no prof of that.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:16:03 AM
but then other characters who turn out to be Things end up wearing completely intact sets of clothes that are identical to what the character was wearing previously)
That is because the people working there at the complex have spare cloths.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 04, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:16:03 AM
There's that, too. Evidently the Thing is able to replicate clothing (characters find torn clothing,
There is no prof of that.
nor there's proof of
Quote
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:16:03 AM
but then other characters who turn out to be Things end up wearing completely intact sets of clothes that are identical to what the character was wearing previously)
That is because the people working there at the complex have spare cloths.
we
don't know this. the answer could be either. you can't just choose the option that favors you.
"*The Aliens in Alien, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, AvP, and AvP:R, have more pointed nails which will allow them to puncture armor much better than the Alien warriors in Aliens which had much broader nails which would be good for gouging more flesh out.
*The Aliens in Alien Resurrection, AvP, and AvP:R have better rudder control underwater than the others.
*The Aliens in AvP:R have developed more armor than the others in a similar way that Warriors with the Onslaught Genome have.
*The Queen in Alien Resurrection was unintentionally evolved in a way that alowed her to bare creatures similar in size to a human based warrior.
*The Warriors in AvP and AvP:R have very very heavy tail blades, all creatures in the movies have unknown venom capabilities except for the Queen Predalien."
Most of these are just design enhancements by the filmakers.
The thing is not weaker and is easily capable of killing a xenomorph, it doesn't need to impale an alien either, it could just crush it or break its neck.
You are not thinking logically, a xenomorph have no way to kill a thing and in terms of physical combat its out matched by the shape-shift monstrosity which with its ability to form many tentacles , could hold down a xenomorph.
A xenomorph has not been killed by a flamethrower because they have not been used on it yet, bullets have been used on the thing.
Realistically the thing would and could overtake the world faster then a xenomorph, as i said a single cell can take over a human easily. xenomorphs have a life-cycle to go through.
QuoteNo that is its biology. The creatures biology is H2So4 / HF [H20]
No I didn't get it from the Tech manual, it is from the first disc of the Alien Anthology.
Could you be more specific? Where on the disc is that?
The things you listed off are just... two acids and water. Acid is never a solid unless it's frozen, so obviously there has to be more to it than those three things.
Not to mention Hydrogen Fluoride is primarily a gas.
QuoteIt is not, the biology is inorganic, the morphology is inorganic.
So how is it getting those 3 things from a host when the host doesn't consist of them? Magic?
Their morphology is really obviously organic, otherwise how are they growing inside an organic host? Like, that's the fundamental part of their reproductive/growth cycle. They grow in a host and take traits/material from it. How would it even know how to translate some of those (organic) traits to an allegedly completely inorganic biology that's made of... two acids and water, apparently?
I mean if you want to be really scientific about this (which is kind of impossible, since it's a fictional creature - the entire last chapter of the Tech Manual is devoted to demonstrating this point) you should be ready to follow through with it.
Quote
That is because the people working there at the complex have spare cloths.
Where did Bennings get the spare clothes, exactly? Windows walks in on him being assimilated, and within seconds he'd gone and gotten the others and all the blood and everything was gone and the new Bennings-Thing had gone straight out the window. When they find him outside, he's wearing clothes. Where did he get them? He didn't have time to between the time Windows spots him getting assimilated and the time they get back to find him gone.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 04, 2012, 04:24:52 AM
we don't know this. the answer could be either. you can't just choose the option that favors you.
It would be unsanitary for them to only have one pair of cloths.
irrelevant. that would imply the thing actually did a trip to the closets of every room for every victim absorbed. covered in blood and all, without leaving trace and without bumping into anyone. now that's a hell of a stretch.
Exactly. Sure they had spare clothes, but then why do known Things wear the exact same clothes that their human counterparts did prior to assimilation? I guess those characters only bought 6 pairs of the same exact clothes and never wear anything different?
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 04:25:37 AM
"*The Aliens in Alien, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, AvP, and AvP:R, have more pointed nails which will allow them to puncture armor much better than the Alien warriors in Aliens which had much broader nails which would be good for gouging more flesh out.
*The Aliens in Alien Resurrection, AvP, and AvP:R have better rudder control underwater than the others.
*The Aliens in AvP:R have developed more armor than the others in a similar way that Warriors with the Onslaught Genome have.
*The Queen in Alien Resurrection was unintentionally evolved in a way that alowed her to bare creatures similar in size to a human based warrior.
*The Warriors in AvP and AvP:R have very very heavy tail blades, all creatures in the movies have unknown venom capabilities except for the Queen Predalien."
Most of these are just design enhancements by the filmakers.
In universe it is because of the bio-imperative
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 04:25:37 AM
The thing is not weaker and is easily capable of killing a xenomorph, it doesn't need to impale an alien either, it just crush it or break its neck.
I want to see it punch through steel, I want to see it punch through armored quartz, it has not done any of these things, including the games.
If the Thing tried to entangle a Xenomorph, the Xenomorph would rip it to shreds. Not to mention if it was up against a Razor Claw or a Ravager. Or even a ultra rare King.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 04:25:37 AM
You are not thing logically, a xenomorph have no way to kill a thing and in terms of physical combat its out matched by the shape-shift monstrosity which with its ability to form many tentacles , could hold down a xenomorph.
A xenomorph has not been killed by a flamethrower because they have not been used on it yet, bullets have been used on the thing.
You are not thinking logical, a it is near impossible for a Thing to hold down a Human Based Warrior let alone any other type that comes from other hosts. Venoms that Xenomorphs use also would make effective weapons against a Thing.
By the way flamethrower do not use combustalbes that are effective enough to kill Aliens EXCEPT Napalm which is good at killing anything including tanks.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 04:25:37 AM
Realistically the thing would overtake the world faster then a xenomorph, as i said a single cell can take over a human easily. xenomorphs have a life-cycle to go through.
Not not realistically that is the lore for both creatures, it will take 1125 days for the Thing to take over earth, it will take way way less for the Xenomorph. If you ignore lore for both the Thing and Xenomorph you will forfeit this fight.
QuoteYou are not thinking logical, a it is near impossible for a Thing to hold down a Human Based Warrior let alone any other type that comes from other hosts. Venoms that Xenomorphs use also would make effective weapons against a Thing.
How do you know any of this? (hint: you don't)
QuoteOr even a ultra rare King.
No such thing. The only "king" was the one from Rogue, and it was an artificial construct. They don't actually occur naturally.
Quoteit will take 1125 days for the Thing to take over earth
Where did this number come from? In the movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUxPer4lmGo#) Blair's estimate is that the Thing could take over the planet within 27000 hours, which is 120 days.
Have you seen a xenomorph rip a thing to shreds or get out out of a hold? no? then don't presume too much. i am going by logic to assume and i know a thing has more chance of killing a xenomorph than vice versa.
The thing hasn't been seen to punch through steel so it can't be proved either way but i know it took more the ONE xenomorph to bust down that door in aliens. may i remind you that this topic is basically just for fun and shouldn't be taken too seriously.
It all comes down to who has what to fight with. a thing has more and it can NOT die from physical damage no matter how shredded it would get but i wonder how many limbs or appendages you can pull of a xenomorph before it stops moving? short answer? just one, remove the head and its dead.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:26:12 AM
QuoteNo that is its biology. The creatures biology is H2So4 / HF [H20]
No I didn't get it from the Tech manual, it is from the first disc of the Alien Anthology.
Could you be more specific? Where on the disc is that?
The things you listed off are just... two acids and water. Acid is never a solid unless it's frozen, so obviously there has to be more to it than those three things.
Not to mention Hydrogen Fluoride is primarily a gas.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:26:12 AM
So how is it getting those 3 things from a host when the host doesn't consist of them? Magic?
Their morphology is really obviously organic,
No it is not, you are ignoring Alien lore.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:26:12 AM
otherwise how are they growing inside an organic host? Like, that's the fundamental part of their reproductive/growth cycle. They grow in a host and take traits/material from it. How would it even know how to translate some of those (organic) traits to an allegedly completely inorganic biology that's made of... two acids and water, apparently?
Just because it is taking in elements and digesting them doesn't make the Alien itself a Organic creature.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:26:12 AM
That is because the people working there at the complex have spare cloths.
Where did Bennings get the spare clothes, exactly? Windows walks in on him being assimilated, and within seconds he'd gone and gotten the others and all the blood and everything was gone and the new Bennings-Thing had gone straight out the window. When they find him outside, he's wearing clothes. Where did he get them? He didn't have time to between the time Windows spots him getting assimilated and the time they get back to find him gone.
Well in that scene you will notice that Bennings doesn't have his jacket on, or his shirt he may have taken it off before the attack, or the creature took it off of him. The cloths are gone with Bennings when Window brings Mac to look at the grizzly scene. The blood very well could have been absorbed from the cloths as well.
QuoteNo it is not, you are ignoring Alien lore.
You're continually moving the goalposts - for someone citing Wikipedia and various quotes regarding scientific principles to prove your point, you're quick to abandon that tactic when it stops making sense. Like, do you have any response for the Alien "biology" being apparently completely consistent of two acids (one of which is primarily a gas) and water other than "it's the lore"?
I mean the Alien does a lot of weird shit that can't be explained by science, but dancing between "this is what science says, it must be right" and "this is what the lore says, I don't care about science" is disingenuous at best.
Also you didn't mention specifically where in the Alien Anthology it says these things, anyway.
QuoteJust because it is taking in elements and digesting them doesn't make the Alien itself a Organic creature.
When it's taking in those elements as a part of itself while growing inside a host, then yeah it kind of does.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:49:22 AM
How do you know any of this? (hint: you don't)
Yes I do, poisons work on the Thing as was shown in one of the Thing games. They used it as a test. Blake sprayed poisons on the blood, the blood that would attack or jump after being sprayed was the infected blood.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:49:22 AM
No such thing. The only "king" was the one from Rogue, and it was an artificial construct. They don't actually occur naturally.
Bio-Imperative. Do not forget that the Alien has vast vast different ways it can evolve, the King is one way, the one from the Rogue comic was likely accidentally unlocked from the Alien genetic database, just like the
Yellows abities were unlocked by there creator. The reason Yellows are considered abominations is because they are forver locked in there configurations. In theory a Ravager can become more than just a Colossal Ravager, the Yellows Ravager can and will only be a Colossal Ravager.
Quoteit will take 1125 days for the Thing to take over earth
Where did this number come from? In the movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUxPer4lmGo#) Blair's estimate is that the Thing could take over the planet within 27000 hours, which is 120 days.
[/quote]
27000 / 24 = 1125 days, you can even check that on google.
QuoteYes I do, poisons work on the Thing as was shown in one of the Thing games. They used it as a test. Blake sprayed poisons on the blood, the blood that would attack or jump after being sprayed was the infected blood.
I don't think the blood test in the game was based around poisons, and that also doesn't mean that *all* poisons automatically work against the Thing.
QuoteBio-Imperative. Do not forget that the Alien has vast vast different ways it can evolve, the King is one way, the one from the Rogue comic was likely accidentally unlocked from the Alien genetic database
But the thing is the King was still an artificial construct, one that doesn't actually occur naturally since Aliens reproduce asexually. There aren't actually "males" (let alone male Queens) since there's no need for them.
Quote
27000 / 24 = 1125 days, you can even check that on google.
Whoops, you're right, my math was wrong.
However, it was still only a computer projection based on incomplete data. Over 3 years seems like a really long time given the Thing's ability to infect anyone with just a touch (not to mention getting groups of people to destroy each other through paranoia).
The big point of both Thing movies is that if even the smallest part of the Thing got to civilization, it would be a world-ending event. Aliens infesting Earth is a serious problem, but it's one that humanity can eventually overcome according to the novels and comics. If the Thing infected the planet, no matter how long it took, it's game over.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:58:12 AM
You're continually moving the goalposts - for someone citing Wikipedia and various quotes regarding scientific principles to prove your point, you're quick to abandon that tactic when it stops making sense. Like, do you have any response for the Alien "biology" being apparently completely consistent of two acids (one of which is primarily a gas) and water other than "it's the lore"?
It is a Alien creature that was designed to clean the galaxy, universe of all life.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:58:12 AM
I mean the Alien does a lot of weird shit that can't be explained by science, but dancing between "this is what science says, it must be right" and "this is what the lore says, I don't care about science" is disingenuous at best.
Nowhere did I say I don't care about science.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:58:12 AM
Also you didn't mention specifically where in the Alien Anthology it says these things, anyway.
Why should I tell you exactly...?
QuoteJust because it is taking in elements and digesting them doesn't make the Alien itself a Organic creature.
When it's taking in those elements as a part of itself while growing inside a host, then yeah it kind of does.
[/quote]
Not if it is converting those elements.
"It is a Alien creature that was designed to clean the galaxy, universe of all life."
its still not known if its natural or a bio-weapon and its not known for certain if they are cleaners of the galaxy, in one of e.u books, a creatures eats xenomorphs.
"Why should I tell you exactly...?"
why shouldn't you?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:58:12 AM
QuoteJust because it is taking in elements and digesting them doesn't make the Alien itself a Organic creature.
When it's taking in those elements as a part of itself while growing inside a host, then yeah it kind of does.
indeed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass) although the alien doesn't seem to obbey this law, the moment SOMETHING from the host is taken from him, be it by feeding or by copying or assimilating the host's genetic structure, the alien is growing by the host's . if the alien didn't take part of it's host with it, it's growing by expanding itself ussing mass that came from the host. it has "host" in it. there's no way to change that.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 04, 2012, 05:01:41 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:49:22 AM
No such thing. The only "king" was the one from Rogue, and it was an artificial construct. They don't actually occur naturally.
Bio-Imperative. Do not forget that the Alien has vast vast different ways it can evolve, the King is one way, the one from the Rogue comic was likely accidentally unlocked from the Alien genetic database
no it isn't. the King was the doctor's own machination. at no point in his dialogue does he says that he's unlocking something that was there. he tried to do his own thing, and he failed. there was never a place for a king in the hive, there was no reason why it should even exist, that was the whole point of the comic. the king was one big vehicle to the doctor's ego and his perverse ambition and that's why he was demented and obsessed to see it defeat the queen, and then went completely f**king apeshit when she kicked his ass.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 05:08:25 AM
I don't think the blood test in the game was based around poisons, and that also doesn't mean that *all* poisons automatically work against the Thing.
No but I would discount a Xenomorphs venom, epically because they were made to kill all life in the galaxy/universe. Thats a lot of crap they will have to adapt to do that.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 05:08:25 AM
But the thing is the King was still an artificial construct, one that doesn't actually occur naturally since Aliens reproduce asexually. There aren't actually "males" (let alone male Queens) since there's no need for them.
Your assuming it would only be used for sexual reason. For starters the King Could be a creature that is made to kill all Xenomorphs on the planet it is on. The fake one that was in Rogue did a pretty good job nearly killing a whole hive. If the creators of the Aliens truly wanted the galaxy/universe void of life, and they used Aliens to kill that life the would need a anti-alien to do this so that the universe is truly void of life.
Or it could be one of many ultimate weapons a hive will use to destroy a very hostile target.
Or if it was intended for reproductive purposes it could be used to forcefully make 2ndary xenomorphs from what ever female or equivalent was around. 2ndary xenomorphs are creatures similar to the newborn.
Quote
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 05:08:25 AM
However, it was still only a computer projection based on incomplete data. Over 3 years seems like a really long time given the Thing's ability to infect anyone with just a touch (not to mention getting groups of people to destroy each other through paranoia).
The big point of both Thing movies is that if even the smallest part of the Thing got to civilization, it would be a world-ending event. Aliens infesting Earth is a serious problem, but it's one that humanity can eventually overcome according to the novels and comics. If the Thing infected the planet, no matter how long it took, it's game over.
The reasons humans are even alive at that point is because of there level of technology. If the creatures swapped places in each others movies the Thing would be wiped out, the Alien if it did escaped the Arctic would take over the earth with no human survivors.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 05:13:07 AM
"It is a Alien creature that was designed to clean the galaxy, universe of all life."
its still not known if its natural or a bio-weapon and its not known for certain if they are cleaners of the galaxy, in one of e.u books, a creatures eats xenomorphs.
Maybe you missed Riddley Scotts message about what we are going to see in his preqs Prometheus. Engineers of Space, cleaners of the galaxy and or universe.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 05:13:07 AM
"Why should I tell you exactly...?"
why shouldn't you?
I want to know why you are asking my this question.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 04, 2012, 05:19:17 AM
indeed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass) although the alien doesn't seem to obbey this law, the moment SOMETHING from the host is taken from him, be it by feeding or by copying or assimilating the host's genetic structure, the alien is growing by the host's . if the alien didn't take part of it's host with it, it's growing by expanding itself ussing mass that came from the host. it has "host" in it. there's no way to change that.
You are assuming that it is not reconfiguring the elements that it takes in.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:49:22 AM
No such thing. The only "king" was the one from Rogue, and it was an artificial construct. They don't actually occur naturally.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 04:49:22 AM
no it isn't. the King was the doctor's own machination. at no point in his dialogue does he says that he's unlocking something that was there. he tried to do his own thing, and he failed.
He was freaking crazy even out of all the top scientists that study the Alien, they do not realize what they are studying, its bioroid/reploid that has the capabilities to be and do anything it is needed to do, if its creators were still alive they could reconfigure these things like the Zonoids and Zoloards in the Guyver series.
The guy in the Rogue story was trying to make a subservient Queen alien that was not aggressive at all. In the story he even tell the guy that is there to take his research, that he wants to make aliens that are not violent so he avoids humans primates most cattle. So what does he do when he tries to make this subservient Queen? He fills that damn thing full of testosterone and a bunch of other junk.
QuoteIt is a Alien creature that was designed to clean the galaxy, universe of all life.
We don't know this. We don't even know if they were "created".
QuoteWhy should I tell you exactly...?
So that we can verify what you're saying so we know you're not just making stuff up, not to mention common courtesy?
QuoteNot if it is converting those elements.
How would it do that? You said it yourself, in chemistry the equations have to balance out. How do you go from a carbon-based lifeform like a human to the Alien, which is (according to you) made up entirely of 2 acids and water?
QuoteFor starters the King Could be a creature that is made to kill all Xenomorphs on the planet it is on. The fake one that was in Rogue did a pretty good job nearly killing a whole hive.
But this doesn't change the fact that the King as seen in Rogue doesn't happen naturally, it was an artificial construct.
Quote
Maybe you missed Riddley Scotts message about what we are going to see in his preqs Prometheus. Engineers of Space, cleaners of the galaxy and or universe.
We still don't know what role the Alien will play in Prometheus, if any.
Quote
He was freaking crazy even out of all the top scientists that study the Alien, they do not realize what they are studying, its bioroid/reploid that has the capabilities to be and do anything it is needed to do, if its creators were still alive they could reconfigure these things like the Zonoids and Zoloards in the Guyver series.
I.... I don't even know what any of this means, let alone what it has to do with the topic. ???
QuoteThe guy in the Rogue story was trying to make a subservient Queen alien that was not aggressive at all. In the story he even tell the guy that is there to take his research, that he wants to make aliens that are not violent so he avoids humans primates most cattle. So what does he do when he tries to make this subservient Queen? He fills that damn thing full of testosterone and a bunch of other junk.
In other words, he creates a creature that doesn't naturally occur, similar to the Newborn in 'Alien Resurrection'.
idk if this was talked about but ive been thinking if a facehugger managed to impregnate a Thing, wouldnt the thing be able to replicate the embro. and if so think of how deadly
the thing/xeno would become!
Well i doubt a thing assimilate a xenomorph but if it allowed itself to get facehugged then it could possibly start assimilating the embryo when it absorbs the thing's blood.
"Maybe you missed Riddley Scotts message about what we are going to see in his preqs Prometheus. Engineers of Space, cleaners of the galaxy and or universe."
Engineers are not xenomorphs.
Not to mention everything organic is in potential danger with the Thing around, unless it is specified that it has a very strong (and mainly fast) immunitary system.
In my opinion, the thing would only be able to assimilate a xenomorph if it did so to the embryo first which would allow it to be absorbed into the system of the growing embryo without being destroyed by the acid, once it full assimilates it, it can replicate the immunity to acid and assimilate all xenos then.
What if an Alien eggmorphs The Thing? Then there would be a Thing-Alien that can be used to combat The Thing.
How would the Alien subdue the Thing in order to eggmorph it?
Maybe the Thing was set on fire and the Aliens harvested the remains.
I'd think it would just absorb whatever the Alien tried to egg-morph it with and then continue being a Thing.
Any life form that can attack the Alien has to contend with the acid blood, and in most cases will be either killed or incapacitated by it. A Thing maybe be slowed down by it, but it could just detach a body part (a ala Norris' head) that's unaffected by the acid and continue on it's merry way.
And exposure to the acid could hve it form a counter for it for future encounters.
It would be amusing to see a facehugger and a Norris head fighting, rolling around and chasing each other. :D
The mental image that generated for me is awesome/hilarious. :D
Yes that would be amusing but the facehugger would lose against it.
The norris-head was very creepy and i love how it was done, especially the effects when it grew the legs.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 05, 2012, 05:50:25 AM
I'd think it would just absorb whatever the Alien tried to egg-morph it with and then continue being a Thing.
But, that Thing is supposed to be dead. And the coccoon it's in isn't even alive.
Dead Things are not always fully dead.
See: Splitface over at Outpost 31.
Yeah, but it took a long while for Split Face corpse to recover and assimilate Bennings, maybe by the time it recovers during the eggmorphing process it'll already have been turned into an Alien. Failing that, the Aliens could perhaps adapt to speed up the eggmorphing process.
How'd they know every X and Y about The Thing?
Every X and Y? You mean the Thing's chromosones?
I expressed myself wrongly.
Sorry.
I mean, every characteristic of the Thing. How'd they know about its abilities? All of them?
perhaps the reason it took split-face long to recover was because it might have been partially frozen, it was out in the cold for perhaps a day or more. the blood from creature dripped like sludge in the first film, regardless its cells were still active and they would assimilate whatever foreign cells enter its body.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 05, 2012, 07:37:40 PM
I expressed myself wrongly.
Sorry.
I mean, every characteristic of the Thing. How'd they know about its abilities? All of them?
What do you mean? I imagine all the Aliens needs to do is grab a comatose Thing and eggmorph it. Simple.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 05, 2012, 07:47:22 PM
perhaps the reason it took split-face long to recover was because it might have been partially frozen, it was out in the cold for perhaps a day or more. the blood from creature dripped like sludge in the first film, regardless its cells were still active and they would assimilate whatever foreign cells enter its body.
Then why did it enter into its comatose state when Kate set it on fire? I don't think the freezing had anything to do with putting splitface into hibernation.
Speaking of which, should rename splitface into something else, ie. like twoface? It's clear now that its face never split.
i didn't say it was hibernating, i said it might have been frozen, its blood moved like sludge in the first movie, it was left in the snow and cold weather for at least a day or two.
Either way, I don't think it was frozen. It was already unconsciouis when Kate set it on fire and freezing hadn't even begun to set in then. What did MacReady and his team do to Splitface anyway? Did they just burn it again?
you are misunderstanding me, i am not saying it was conscious beforehand or even alive, i am saying its "body" AFTER being burnt by kate was left out in the freezing cold weather and was probably partly frozen, its blood seemed like it was just thawing out before it attacked bennings. it was dripping very slowly was like slush.
yes, i believe they had split-face and the other dog-thing thrown in a ditch and burned.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 05, 2012, 08:05:09 PM
What do you mean? I imagine all the Aliens needs to do is grab a comatose Thing and eggmorph it. Simple.
You said they could adapt and make the egg-morphing faster. How would they know about that?
And how are we sure the Thing wouldn't take over
during the egg-morphing process?
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 05, 2012, 08:20:16 PM
you are misunderstanding me, i am not saying it was conscious beforehand or even alive, i am saying its "body" AFTER being burnt by kate was left out in the freezing cold weather and was probably partly frozen, its blood seemed like it was just thawing out before it attacked bennings. it was dripping very slowly was like slush.
yes, i believe they had split-face and the other dog-thing thrown in a ditch and burned.
Oh ok, but it took a long while for The Thing to become active again so therefore it may take a long time for it to become active during the eggmorphing process. Also, what was the point of burning splitface's remains again? Kate already did it, wouldn't burning it again be superfluous?
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 05, 2012, 08:33:48 PM
You said they could adapt and make the egg-morphing faster. How would they know about that?
And how are we sure the Thing wouldn't take over during the egg-morphing process?
You mean how can Aliens know how to speed up eggmorphing? Well, they have been shown to adapt physically and mentally as needed in the EU; incubation time decreases, etc. Of course this all depends on what you consider to be canon. And as I understand it The Thing only takes over living creatures, saliva isn't a living creature and even if The Thing could take over the coccoon, then I think it's possible that the Aliens would eventually adapt and breed a new genetic variety of Alien that The Thing couldn't take over. I believe Aliens are supposedly resistant to disease (I think I heard that somewhere), this is probably due to their capabilities to adapt.
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 05, 2012, 08:57:44 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 05, 2012, 08:20:16 PM
you are misunderstanding me, i am not saying it was conscious beforehand or even alive, i am saying its "body" AFTER being burnt by kate was left out in the freezing cold weather and was probably partly frozen, its blood seemed like it was just thawing out before it attacked bennings. it was dripping very slowly was like slush.
yes, i believe they had split-face and the other dog-thing thrown in a ditch and burned.
Oh ok, but it took a long while for The Thing to become active again so therefore it may take a long time for it to become active during the eggmorphing process. Also, what was the point of burning splitface's remains again? Kate already did it, wouldn't burning it again be superfluous?
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 05, 2012, 08:33:48 PM
You said they could adapt and make the egg-morphing faster. How would they know about that?
And how are we sure the Thing wouldn't take over during the egg-morphing process?
You mean how can Aliens know how to speed up eggmorphing? Well, they have been shown to adapt physically and mentally as needed in the EU; incubation time decreases, etc. Of course this all depends on what you consider to be canon. And as I understand it The Thing only takes over living creatures, saliva isn't a living creature and even if The Thing could take over the coccoon, then I think it's possible that the Aliens would eventually adapt and breed a new genetic variety of Alien that The Thing couldn't take over. I believe Aliens are supposedly resistant to disease (I think I heard that somewhere), this is probably due to their capabilities to adapt.
because burning them briefly with a flamethrower only kills the surface and the outer parts of the thing, its enough to stop them but internally the cells are still active, so they need to be completely burned right until everything is dried out and ash, basically they need to be cremated :laugh:
What I meant is how would they know they had to speed it up, because the Thing is a tricky f**k?
Not to mention that A. it takes on alive organic cells and B. when the egg starts forming, that's when it'd strike.
we don't know how the egg-morphing works. we don't know exactly what the process does with the victim's body, maybe the thing cells could simply endure it(it's a shape shifter already). or maybe there would be residual thing cells and they would take over the egg again anyways. i don't see the alien successfully morphing the thing.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 04:50:46 AM
Have you seen a xenomorph rip a thing to shreds or get out out of a hold? no? then don't presume too much.
I do not have to see a xenomorph rip the Thing to shreds to know it would. The Thing is not anywhere near a durable as the materials the Xenomorph has destroyed, let alone Xenomorphs that have evolved and or come from different hosts.
For instance a Thing grapling a Human Xenomorph Warrior with a the Onslaught Genome is nearly un-grappleable just because of were all its sharp blades on on its body.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 04:50:46 AM
i am going by logic to assume and i know a thing has more chance of killing a xenomorph than vice versa.
You are not going by logic, Bio-Imperative makes it imposible for the Thing to flat out win agianst the Xenomorphs besides the fact that the Queen Mother is aware of what is happening in the Galaxy/Universe, and the Queens on a smaller scale.
There is a good chance that the Aliens will have already adapted to deal with the Thing before it gets to the planet they are on.
QuoteAliens: Outbreak
Quote
Evidently the Alien Queen is able to communicate in some subconscious fashion. With other species. In human beings, these disseminations manifest themselves in the form of pattern nightmares. The dreams were a lure. At first we thought we'd be able to contain the spore. Infestation seemed limited to a narrow geographic range. And yet for every cluster we found there were ten more just like it.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
The Alien's subconscious bait transcended class and political boundaries. We found hives everywhere. With each new discovery, out hope of destroying the creatures before they entered the civilian population faded. However we still considered containment an option. In studying the bionational file we learned their Queen gestated a number of weeks prior to maturation. Using their experiment as a baseline, I assumed we still had time before any New Queens would become viable. I was wrong.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Perhaps our worst mistake was underestimating the sheer instinctual cunning of the creatures. We didn't see the underlying Pattern behind their evolutionary process--the way every facet of their existence was geared toward propagation. The Queens Matured at whatever speed their survival dictated. We had assumed the gestation period was time for the Alien embryo to feed and grow, but it was more than that. I was an opportunity for the unknowing host to spread it's spore to other sites.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
The civilian authority was weak in the face of the devastation. When the Generals finally stage their coup it seemed almost--welcome. The military created testing centers where physicians checked civilians for signs of the Alien infection. At first the test were voluntary. Within days that changed. There were rumors the military was using the pretext of aline infection to eliminate political dissident--the poor, the diasaffected--As if such petty rivalries even mattered.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Vital services--water, electricity-- began to fail. We've heard of infestations in Europe, Australia. The seed is growing with remarkable speed. From all this I've come to understand something about humanity. Man is an animal, driven by animal passions. "Civilization" is a pathetic charge of manners, predicated on a tissue--thin veil of lies. In the future--if there is a future-- historians may blame out failures on some external cause--the Aliens. Bionational. Fate. I know the truth. Those things didn't destroy us. We did.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Damn them damn them all to hell. They thought they could breed the monsters. The monsters were breading us!
The thing hasn't been seen to punch through steel so it can't be proved either way but i know it took more the ONE xenomorph to bust down that door in aliens. may i remind you that this topic is basically just for fun and shouldn't be taken too seriously.
It all comes down to who has what to fight with. a thing has more and it can NOT die from physical damage no matter how shredded it would get but i wonder how many limbs or appendages you can pull of a xenomorph before it stops moving? short answer? just one, remove the head and its dead.
QuoteAliens: Nightmare Asylum
Quote
Squad--come to order! The time has come to prove yourselves--to show your commanding officer all you have learned. We must give no quarter. The others are your enemies. They must be destroyed! ATTACK! I gave you a direct order!
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
Quote
The Old Guard must be overthrown-- they must be defeated--! I see now-- she's trying to turn you against me--You fility bitch! My God you used me-- You wanted your precious children back and I--I Brought them to you-- The tracked Spreas' ship to Earth--and then there was nothing. His revolution ended before it had a chance to begin. The alien wouldn't allow it.
QuoteAliens: Female War
Quote
--I felt her strength. Her utter supremacy. The pilot of the deflect ship had discovered the aliens genesis--the source of their power.
Aliens: Female War
Quote
We assumed the Alien infestations were sporadic, arbitrary-- that they bred wherever convenient, like some horrible cancers. We were WRONG. They Move with PURPOSE. She's calling her children back to her."
Aliens: Female War
Quote
--It's me you want. Billie--move over here with me. That's why you had your babies keep the little girl alive-- you knew we'd come for her.
The Thing is not in the same league as the Xenomorphs.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 06:33:20 AM
We don't know this. We don't even know if they were "created".
???
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 06:33:20 AM
So that we can verify what you're saying so we know you're not just making stuff up, not to mention common courtesy?
You know what, I was just kidding that it is in the First disc in the Alien: Anthology set. There 6 discs in the set, the information about the Aliens biology is on the 37th disc. Go Fish.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 06:33:20 AM
How would it do that? You said it yourself, in chemistry the equations have to balance out. How do you go from a carbon-based lifeform like a human to the Alien, which is (according to you) made up entirely of 2 acids and water?
It is unknown how they do, what we do know is that they are inorganic. You also seem to forget that this creature impregnates other creatures that are not carbon-based, yet they appear very similar.
Since we know they are inorganic and their morphology is heavily based on Silicon polymer, you should be looking for the reason how they convert other elements rather than ignoring the lore. For all we know the Facehugger helps in the process of conversion of matter before it dies.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 06:33:20 AM
which is (according to you) made up entirely of 2 acids and water?
Perhaps you have forgotten that you are mostly water and carbon molecules...?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 06:33:20 AM
But this doesn't change the fact that the King as seen in Rogue doesn't happen naturally, it was an artificial construct.
It doesn't change the fact that he made a artificial King. You can not prove it doesn't happen naturally, and the fact that the genetic data base is so vast that the Aliens have access to helps my argument, the probability of them not being able to evolve a King is very low because of bio-imperative.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 06:33:20 AM
We still don't know what role the Alien will play in Prometheus, if any.
Seriously ??? I don't even need to see the movie to know what is going to happen, especially after the comments Scott said about his movie/movies.
QuoteHe was freaking crazy even out of all the top scientists that study the Alien, they do not realize what they are studying, its bioroid/reploid that has the capabilities to be and do anything it is needed to do, if its creators were still alive they could reconfigure these things like the Zonoids and Zoloards in the Guyver series.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 04, 2012, 06:33:20 AM
I.... I don't even know what any of this means, let alone what it has to do with the topic. ???
Well that explains everything. And this comment below.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 04:50:46 AM
Xenomorphs are not Engineers of Space
Seriously??? :-X
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 04, 2012, 04:50:46 AM
In other words, he creates a creature that doesn't naturally occur, similar to the Newborn in 'Alien Resurrection'.
I have already explained the Rogues deal.
As for the Newborn we know they do have "2ndary Xenomorphs" that looks similar to "the Newborn".
Couple things to point out. We know that Aliens that come from Males or the equivalent are the same sex more than likely as the host because.
*A Wraith Warrior has Male sex organs.
*A women that was pregnant with belly buster hybrids didn't get pregnant on her own. Aliens: Labyrinth
*The doctor in Aliens:Rogue refers to the Rogue as a "Rogue Male".
I still am not seeing how the Thing can kill off the Xenomorphs!
Xenomorph Assets.
*Biological-Imperative (Always them to reconfigure/evolve to deal with what ever is a threat to them and or the hive fast. The Queen has a vast genetic database for evolutionary responses against enemies of the hive.
For example Aliens have evolved to use more acid based attacks, including the Acid Alien from the computer games, the Predaliens of LV-742, Oswoc Drones of LV-742, Praetorians of LV-742 and BG-386 use lots of Acid LOTS, Carriers/Super Carriers of LY-742, Space Jockey Aliens from LV-426 uses massive amounts of Acid and dwarfs all known "Things" except for Carrier B4. One Alien was even shown to have changed its blood in Aliens: Once in a lifetime.
There is a very real probability that the Aliens will make a anti-thing Enzyme and/or make more acid attack based Xenomorphs, quickly and possible even before the Thing arrives on the planet the Xenomorphs are on.
*Xenomorphs that come from different host have different capabilities, which also plays into the Biological-Imperative asset.
*Xenomorphs, are much better tacticians, and are Galacticly aware of what is happening in the Galaxy and or universe.
QuoteAliens:Hive
Quote
Here They come. "Gill, that is the aperture through the field. Do You see It? "Classic strategy. Potter didn't anticipate their cleverness. "Have you ever seen anything move so quickly? "They'll never even know what hit them. "I would hate to encounter the Predator that acid defense was evolved to thwart." It's over quickly for most. But some of them aren't so lucky.
Aliens:Hive
Quote
At first only one or two moved. But others joined quickly... A mute understanding passing among them... An understanding born of ritualized and tactile communication. Their mass built geometrically until they formed a living wall.*
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Evidently the Alien Queen is able to communicate in some subconscious fashion. With other species. In human beings, these disseminations manifest themselves in the form of pattern nightmares. The dreams were a lure. At first we thought we'd be able to contain the spore. Infestation seemed limited to a narrow geographic range. And yet for every cluster we found there were ten more just like it.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
The Alien's subconscious bait transcended class and political boundaries. We found hives everywhere. With each new discovery, out hope of destroying the creatures before they entered the civilian population faded. However we still considered containment an option. In studying the bionational file we learned their Queen gestated a number of weeks prior to maturation. Using their experiment as a baseline, I assumed we still had time before any New Queens would become viable. I was wrong.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Perhaps our worst mistake was underestimating the sheer instinctual cunning of the creatures. We didn't see the underlying Pattern behind their evolutionary process--the way every facet of their existence was geared toward propagation. The Queens Matured at whatever speed their survival dictated. We had assumed the gestation period was time for the Alien embryo to feed and grow, but it was more than that. I was an opportunity for the unknowing host to spread it's spore to other sites.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
The civilian authority was weak in the face of the devastation. When the Generals finally stage their coup it seemed almost--welcome. The military created testing centers where physicians checked civilians for signs of the Alien infection. At first the test were voluntary. Within days that changed. There were rumors the military was using the pretext of aline infection to eliminate political dissident--the poor, the diasaffected--As if such petty rivalries even mattered.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Vital services--water, electricity-- began to fail. We've heard of infestations in Europe, Australia. The seed is growing with remarkable speed. From all this I've come to understand something about humanity. Man is an animal, driven by animal passions. "Civilization" is a pathetic charge of manners, predicated on a tissue--thin veil of lies. In the future--if there is a future-- historians may blame out failures on some external cause--the Aliens. Bionational. Fate. I know the truth. Those things didn't destroy us. We did.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Damn them damn them all to hell. They thought they could breed the monsters. The monsters were breading us!
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
Quote
I watched them disappear in the darkness. I let them Go--I wanted them to go. The Alien is the only one I can trust. Their loyalty transcends human treachery. Together, we will form a new world. I will lead man and alien alike toward a new glory, a new beginning--A better tomorrow! Some of course, will perish in the terrible struggle ahead. I know that. I respect it.--But In the end, we will prevail. I can hear the adulation of the masses as I rescue them from their misery. I can hear their cries of joy as I inspire them to rebuild out world. I could feel their love, their admiration--their fear. We ere on the cusp of a truly historic moment--when the tide would turn against the human disorganization of the past--my boys would make us proud again.
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
Quote
Squad--come to order! The time has come to prove yourselves--to show your commanding officer all you have learned. We must give no quarter. The others are your enemies. They must be destroyed! ATTACK! I gave you a direct order!
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
Quote
The Old Guard must be overthrown-- they must be defeated--! I see now-- she's trying to turn you against me--You fility bitch! My God you used me-- You wanted your precious children back and I--I Brought them to you-- The tracked Spreas' ship to Earth--and then there was nothing. His revolution ended before it had a chance to begin. The alien wouldn't allow it.
Aliens: Female War
Quote
--I felt her strength. Her utter supremacy. The pilot of the deflect ship had discovered the aliens genesis--the source of their power.
Aliens: Female War
Quote
We assumed the Alien infestations were sporadic, arbitrary-- that they bred wherever convenient, like some horrible cancers. We were WRONG. They Move with PURPOSE. She's calling her children back to her."
Aliens: Female War
Quote
--It's me you want. Billie--move over here with me. That's why you had your babies keep the little girl alive-- you knew we'd come for her.
*Xenomorphs, can psychically see what the Things intentions are, the Queen Mother at least knows what the Thing is Thinking. This makes the Things Morphing ability useless.
*Xenomorphs, are nearly-impossible to impossible to assimilate.
1)The Acid blood Aliens have is very acidic, just a sputer of it will burn a hole through a Thing let alone the amount of blood that would come out of an injured Xenomorph or the amount of acids spit out by Praetorians and Space Jockey Aliens. The Thing will lose lots of biomass just hurting a Xenomorph let alone trying to assimilate one.
Sidenote the more biomass a Thing losses the less intelligent it becomes.
2)Even if the Thing COULD assimilate a Alien it will only be immune to acids when it is pretending to be a Xenomorph. Once it tries to assimilate a Xenomorph or any creature for that matter it is stated that the Thing has no cells. It can't be imitating something without have its cells imitating the cells of its target(Xenomorph).
3)The Xenomorph is Inorganic, from what we have seen the Thing can not assimilate inorganic material.
4)The Xenomorphs have Bio-Imperatives, they will adapt to the thing and ether use some sort of anti-thing enzyme, and or more mutagenic acids, that will debilitate the Thing.
*Xenomorphs also use many different types of venoms one type that Kurn runners use is a type that turns bodily fluids black because the body of the victim is full of a fast self replicating virus, making them very sick.
Finally We have the Whiteys they can do the above and they use guns, bombs, ships such and such.
All of these issues have to be addressed and countered for the Thing to have a chance.
Here is a shortened of the list of things the "Thing has to deal with.
1)Biological-Imperative
2)Xenomorphs that come from different host have different capabilities
3)Xenomorphs, are much better tacticians, and are Galacticly aware of what is happening in the Galaxy and or universe.
4)Xenomorphs, are nearly-impossible to impossible to assimilate.
5)Whiteys
There are two ways war will end
1)The Thing becomes extinct after going into a straight up fight with the Xenomorphs on the planet, the Xenomorphs adapted to the Thing and/or they both are on a planet with no life on it so the Thing has no more bio-mass to consume.
2)The Thing becomes a bottom feeder on the planet they both occupy or becomes dormant. The Xenomorphs have adapted to them so the Thing steers clear of the Xenomorph contact.
Sorry but that is a load of hogwash, xenomorphs can be beaten by predators and even humans easy enough at times , the thing would destroy a xenomorph and since one particular thing broke out of solid ice and then a ceiling, i think its durable enough. Xenomorphs cannot read minds in the film franchise and maybe at all since the whole overtaking earth story (which had queens entering dreams) was contradicted by alien resurrection and even if they could read minds, they not an intelligent species and would not understand anything a human mind thinks nevermind what a more complicated creature such as the thing would think, the bio-imperative thing sounds like an excuse to me. when it comes down to a thing vs a xenomorph, i would put my money on the thing, it has more "weapons" and can split itself, shape-shift and form tentacles, while i do not think of e.u as canon i will say the genome warrior has the same chance as a normal warrior 0% the thing cannot die from physical damage, it will just regenerate or split its self apart and infact it seems bullets or axes don't even bother it too much. I think you being too biased to see all angles, i prefer the alien franchise over the thing and even the xenomorph itself but even i know the thing would win, the thing has only one main weakness and that is fire and even then not all cells are dead until it is thoroughly burned.
The title "The Thing" seems to imply that it's some sort of creature, but in reality it reminds me more of a virus (like the zombie virus) than any sort of sentient being.
It's obviously a sentient being in some capacity, it's able to reason and make conscious choices, communicate, use tools, etc.
QuoteYou know what, I was just kidding that it is in the First disc in the Alien: Anthology set. There 6 discs in the set, the information about the Aliens biology is on the 37th disc. Go Fish.
So what you're saying is you made up that "alien biology" stuff and we can ignore it wholesale, got it.
QuoteSeriously ??? I don't even need to see the movie to know what is going to happen, especially after the comments Scott said about his movie/movies.
Yes seriously, there's probably good reasons why the movie has been
really hush-hush thus far and we don't actually know much about the movie other than it's related to the Alien series in some way. You should probably wait until the movie comes out and you have some facts from it before you start citing it as evidence, or you'll look pretty dumb if/when you're wrong.
QuoteSince we know they are inorganic
You keep saying this like it's some kind of fact, but you haven't actually proven it.
QuotePerhaps you have forgotten that you are mostly water and carbon molecules...?
Yeah, and a whole lot of other stuff too. I'm not made up of 3 things like you seem to think the Alien is.
QuoteIt doesn't change the fact that he made a artificial King. You can not prove it doesn't happen naturally, and the fact that the genetic data base is so vast that the Aliens have access to helps my argument, the probability of them not being able to evolve a King is very low because of bio-imperative.
The sheer number of logic leaps here are so numerous I don't even know where to begin (or if it would even be worth my time).
The important part is that Kleist created something that doesn't occur naturally, something that wouldn't have otherwise happened had he not gotten involved.
Quote*Xenomorphs, are much better tacticians, and are Galacticly aware of what is happening in the Galaxy and or universe.
I think you're going to have to justify this one a little bit. The Thing knows how to make UFOs from spare parts and would have as wide of a "genetic database" as the Alien if not wider, since it can draw upon the knowledge of any creature it's ever assimilated.
Quote
*Xenomorphs, can psychically see what the Things intentions are, the Queen Mother at least knows what the Thing is Thinking. This makes the Things Morphing ability useless.
How do you know this? (spoiler alert: you don't)
QuoteHere is a shortened of the list of things the "Thing has to deal with.
1)Biological-Imperative
2)Xenomorphs that come from different host have different capabilities
3)Xenomorphs, are much better tacticians, and are Galacticly aware of what is happening in the Galaxy and or universe.
4)Xenomorphs, are nearly-impossible to impossible to assimilate.
5)Whiteys
The problem with this is that it all hinges on #4 being true, and you haven't proven it at all.
Even if Aliens were better tacticians (which I strongly doubt, and how would you even measure it? They operate on a totally different form of intelligence than humans do since they're, you know, aliens) or had different abilities or had a database of traits they can call upon, all it takes is one touch from a Thing and it's game over. One touch, and the Thing starts to assimilate the Alien. Another Alien tries to kill the new Thing-Alien using the tools at its disposal (claws/tail/whatever) and... it touches it. Now it's infected too. Game over for that Alien too. This continues until there's no more Aliens left. If it were so inclined the Thing could actively hunt Aliens down just to infect them because it's an asshole. It knows how to make UFOs and operate complex machinery.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AMIf it were so inclined the Thing could actively hunt Aliens down just to infect them because it's an asshole.
I just want you to know that this line made my day. :laugh:
I have my moments.
Alien and predator cross word??
When are you guys gunna give The Thing its own site? I remember Darkness saying in "Inside the Members Studio" that he was making a Thing site, but could not figure a name for it because Outpost31 name was taking so he put it on hold. Would love to see The Thing site get made by the same people behind AVP Galaxy. however Outpost31 is still a great little site.
A thing infected Alien would be some crazy f**ked up shit. But i think The Thing vs The Blob would be more of a equal fight.
Outpost31 is pretty awesome, I don't know that it needs another fan-site.
Outpost 31 is awesome... if you are only looking for stuff about the John Carpenter film. The forum contains a subsection for games, a subsection for the new film, but no dedicated sub-forum for the comics. The games sub-forum is basically obsessed with the 2002 game and completely ignores newer stuff like Hunt The THING that came out in conjunction with the new film last year. And about the new film. They F%^&ING HATE it. They're worse than we are over here. Like, if you thought the nit-picking over here was bad, just go browse some of the discussions about the new film over there. The vitriol is caustic. They may eventually warm to it, but at the moment it's not really a good idea to talk about how much you like it.
Over here, you can at least hold a decent conversation about AvP:R (or other less-popular films/comics/games/whatever from the AvP-verse) and while you might have people duck in and pan it you can still have a good discussion. This site is fairly open to ALL components of its expanded universe. Outpost 31 is pretty much a John Carpenter's The THING circle jerk.
Again, it's a nice little site, but it's extremely tunnel-visioned, and doesn't really seam that interested in expanding.
I haven't browsed their forum in forever, I didn't realize they hated the new movie. I liked it a lot, I've got the bluray coming in the mail right now. It had problems and it's not as good as the Carpenter one, but it was still a lot of fun.
True it wasn't as good as the original but it was decent and enjoyable, i still kinda prefer the old special effects.
I enjoyed it as well. And there are people over there who are admitting as much. But we're still at a stage where they feel the need to quantify the statement of "actually, I liked it" with "even if it did have all this horrible stuff wrong with it." Enjoying the film as it is is not a good stance to have at the moment over at O31.
There are a few people attempting to begin getting stuff about the new film onto the main site, but considering the bulk of the main site is still the Carpenter film analyzed in excruciating detail, with basically footnote sections for "btw there's some comics" or "btw there's a game" (and they love that game), I'm not optimistic about how long it's going to take them to integrate the info into the main bulk of the site.
well it sounds like its not a site about the thing, its site a about john carpenter's thing, so they are entitled to only focus on that film. games and comics are E.U, so they won't include it if they view only the film as canon.
Well sure, but even this site has stuff about games and comics and stuff too. If nothing else including that EU material can broaden their site's appeal and increase their traffic/user-base. It's not like they have to delete the movie stuff to make room for EU, both can be on the site in their own sections.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 08:00:13 PM
Well sure, but even this site has stuff about games and comics and stuff too. If nothing else including that EU material can broaden their site's appeal and increase their traffic/user-base. It's not like they have to delete the movie stuff to make room for EU, both can be on the site in their own sections.
true, i have no problem with including E.U even though i only view the films as canon, i include them on my wiki but there are some who are so serious about it that they won't even allow it to be on their site.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
Sorry but that is a load of hogwash,
You are ignoring the lore do that one more time and you forfeit.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
xenomorphs can be beaten by predators and even humans easy enough at times ,
You are forgetting that the nearly wiped out all life from the galaxy and or universe before humans could travel in space. You are also forgetting that behind the scenes they are taking more planets than the humans can take back from them.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
the thing would destroy a xenomorph and since one particular thing broke out of solid ice and then a ceiling, i think its durable enough.
Ice does not equal super steels nor armored quartz. The Aliens have been shown to survive worse things that the Thing could not survive. One being Fission and Fusion bombs.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
Xenomorphs cannot read minds in the film franchise and maybe at all since the whole overtaking earth story (which had queens entering dreams) was contradicted by alien resurrection
You have just forfeited the match because you are ignoring canon material.
QuoteQuoteAliens: Female War
Quote
We assumed the Alien infestations were sporadic, arbitrary-- that they bred wherever convenient, like some horrible cancers. We were WRONG. They Move with PURPOSE. She's calling her children back to her."
Aliens: Female War
Quote
--It's me you want. Billie--move over here with me. That's why you had your babies keep the little girl alive-- you knew we'd come for her.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Evidently the Alien Queen is able to communicate in some subconscious fashion. With other species. In human beings, these disseminations manifest themselves in the form of pattern nightmares. The dreams were a lure. At first we thought we'd be able to contain the spore. Infestation seemed limited to a narrow geographic range. And yet for every cluster we found there were ten more just like it.
Aliens: Labyrinth
QuoteThis organ is what interests me most. The surface is lined with compound cells of Fullerite-Encased Hurlantium. The internal structure is solid neurons in two binary fans. Very, very dense. I think it's the Alien Psychic receiver. The fullerite and Hurlantium pick up E-Waves and the Binary fans create interference patterns from electro-magnetic fields. So it would not only receive brainwaves but enable the alien to assess another animal's physical characteristics by seeing its subtle body.
Fullerite is inorganic carbon.
Nothing in Alien Resurrection contradicts the lore about aliens being psychic. For one thing they are modified aliens, and not in a good way.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
and even if they could read minds, they not an intelligent species and would not understand anything a human mind thinks nevermind what a more complicated creature such as the thing would think,
You have ignored the Lore again, they are shown to do everything you just said they can't.
QuoteAliens: Female War
Quote
We assumed the Alien infestations were sporadic, arbitrary-- that they bred wherever convenient, like some horrible cancers. We were WRONG. They Move with PURPOSE. She's calling her children back to her."
ens: Outbreak
Quote
Perhaps our worst mistake was underestimating the sheer instinctual cunning of the creatures. We didn't see the underlying Pattern behind their evolutionary process--the way every facet of their existence was geared toward propagation. The Queens Matured at whatever speed their survival dictated. We had assumed the gestation period was time for the Alien embryo to feed and grow, but it was more than that. I was an opportunity for the unknowing host to spread it's spore to other sites.
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
Quote
The Old Guard must be overthrown-- they must be defeated--! I see now-- she's trying to turn you against me--You fility bitch! My God you used me-- You wanted your precious children back and I--I Brought them to you-- The tracked Spreas' ship to Earth--and then there was nothing. His revolution ended before it had a chance to begin. The alien wouldn't allow it.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
the bio-imperative thing sounds like an excuse to me.
Not one time did I ignore the Lore of the Thing, YET that is all you have done with the Alien. This is why you forfeit. This is a very real very canon ability the have and you ignoring it. I could have easily said that the Thing can't shape change or assimilate things which would be no different than what you are doing.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
when it comes down to a thing vs a xenomorph, i would put my money on the thing, it has more "weapons"
The Xenomorphs have more weapons, and can develop more, PS Snowflakes use Weapons instantly.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
and can split itself,
The more the creature divides it self the less intelligent it becomes, as is shown in the games and the movie with the walking head it just sat there and let the guy burn it to death.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
shape-shift and form tentacles,
Bio-imperative ::)
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
while i do not think of e.u as canon i will say the genome warrior has the same chance as a normal warrior 0%
It is canon, the only hope a Thing has against any type of Warrior is to run, if it injures and Alien is risks its own death.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
the thing cannot die from physical damage,
Yes it can otherwise explosive would do nothing to it. Acid weapons that aliens can evolve fast through bio-imperative will fix the 'Thing' problem anyway. That and they can use venoms and or create a anti-thing enzyme because of the bio-imperative ability.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
it will just regenerate or
It needs to consume other creatures to do that. If this fight is on a planet that the Alines control but has no other life, the Thing is extra screwed.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
split its self apart and infact it seems bullets or axes don't even bother it too much.
When it splits itself is becomes less intelligent.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
I think you being too biased to see all angles, i prefer the alien franchise over the thing and even the xenomorph itself but even i know the thing would win, the thing has only one main weakness and that is fire and even then not all cells are dead until it is thoroughly burned.
The Thing does not have cells and Acids will work just fine on the Thing, or any-other weapons the Aliens evolve to deal with the Thing.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 08, 2012, 09:50:53 PM
You have just forfeited the match because you are ignoring canon material.
I'd just like to point out that he wasn't (at least in that line you quoted) ignoring canon material. He was pointing out that the a film (base level canon) contradicted events depicted in an expanded universe publication, and chose to believe the film instead of the comic books.
Also, as long as you're being a canon nazi, The Thing From Another World comics (also by Dark Horse) show that a single touch from even just
a splash of blood from another infected person/animal/whatever is enough to infect someone else. Even if a xeno tore through a Thing like a rabid tiger in a damp tissue factory, it would be infected. It's just a matter of time until the Thing supersedes that xeno. The Thing wins, even if it has to wait a little bit. The Thing is able to come back from a single drop of blood. And while it will have to re-assimilate higher-level intelligence when re-growing itself, I still think, regardless of all the special traits the Aliens have in the EU, that when taking the Thing's EU into account as well, the Thing will win this fight.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 08, 2012, 09:50:53 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
Sorry but that is a load of hogwash,
You are ignoring the lore do that one more time and you forfeit.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
xenomorphs can be beaten by predators and even humans easy enough at times ,
You are forgetting that the nearly wiped out all life from the galaxy and or universe before humans could travel in space. You are also forgetting that behind the scenes they are taking more planets than the humans can take back from them.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
the thing would destroy a xenomorph and since one particular thing broke out of solid ice and then a ceiling, i think its durable enough.
Ice does not equal super steels nor armored quartz. The Aliens have been shown to survive worse things that the Thing could not survive. One being Fission and Fusion bombs.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
Xenomorphs cannot read minds in the film franchise and maybe at all since the whole overtaking earth story (which had queens entering dreams) was contradicted by alien resurrection
You have just forfeited the match because you are ignoring canon material.
QuoteQuoteAliens: Female War
Quote
We assumed the Alien infestations were sporadic, arbitrary-- that they bred wherever convenient, like some horrible cancers. We were WRONG. They Move with PURPOSE. She's calling her children back to her."
Aliens: Female War
Quote
--It's me you want. Billie--move over here with me. That's why you had your babies keep the little girl alive-- you knew we'd come for her.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Evidently the Alien Queen is able to communicate in some subconscious fashion. With other species. In human beings, these disseminations manifest themselves in the form of pattern nightmares. The dreams were a lure. At first we thought we'd be able to contain the spore. Infestation seemed limited to a narrow geographic range. And yet for every cluster we found there were ten more just like it.
Aliens: Labyrinth
QuoteThis organ is what interests me most. The surface is lined with compound cells of Fullerite-Encased Hurlantium. The internal structure is solid neurons in two binary fans. Very, very dense. I think it's the Alien Psychic receiver. The fullerite and Hurlantium pick up E-Waves and the Binary fans create interference patterns from electro-magnetic fields. So it would not only receive brainwaves but enable the alien to assess another animal's physical characteristics by seeing its subtle body.
Fullerite is inorganic carbon.
Nothing in Alien Resurrection contradicts the lore about aliens being psychic. For one thing they are modified aliens, and not in a good way.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
and even if they could read minds, they not an intelligent species and would not understand anything a human mind thinks nevermind what a more complicated creature such as the thing would think,
You have ignored the Lore again, they are shown to do everything you just said they can't.
QuoteAliens: Female War
Quote
We assumed the Alien infestations were sporadic, arbitrary-- that they bred wherever convenient, like some horrible cancers. We were WRONG. They Move with PURPOSE. She's calling her children back to her."
ens: Outbreak
Quote
Perhaps our worst mistake was underestimating the sheer instinctual cunning of the creatures. We didn't see the underlying Pattern behind their evolutionary process--the way every facet of their existence was geared toward propagation. The Queens Matured at whatever speed their survival dictated. We had assumed the gestation period was time for the Alien embryo to feed and grow, but it was more than that. I was an opportunity for the unknowing host to spread it's spore to other sites.
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
Quote
The Old Guard must be overthrown-- they must be defeated--! I see now-- she's trying to turn you against me--You fility bitch! My God you used me-- You wanted your precious children back and I--I Brought them to you-- The tracked Spreas' ship to Earth--and then there was nothing. His revolution ended before it had a chance to begin. The alien wouldn't allow it.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
the bio-imperative thing sounds like an excuse to me.
Not one time did I ignore the Lore of the Thing, YET that is all you have done with the Alien. This is why you forfeit. This is a very real very canon ability the have and you ignoring it. I could have easily said that the Thing can't shape change or assimilate things which would be no different than what you are doing.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
when it comes down to a thing vs a xenomorph, i would put my money on the thing, it has more "weapons"
The Xenomorphs have more weapons, and can develop more, PS Snowflakes use Weapons instantly.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
and can split itself,
The more the creature divides it self the less intelligent it becomes, as is shown in the games and the movie with the walking head it just sat there and let the guy burn it to death.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
shape-shift and form tentacles,
Bio-imperative ::)
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
while i do not think of e.u as canon i will say the genome warrior has the same chance as a normal warrior 0%
It is canon, the only hope a Thing has against any type of Warrior is to run, if it injures and Alien is risks its own death.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
the thing cannot die from physical damage,
Yes it can otherwise explosive would do nothing to it. Acid weapons that aliens can evolve fast through bio-imperative will fix the 'Thing' problem anyway. That and they can use venoms and or create a anti-thing enzyme because of the bio-imperative ability.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
it will just regenerate or
It needs to consume other creatures to do that. If this fight is on a planet that the Alines control but has no other life, the Thing is extra screwed.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
split its self apart and infact it seems bullets or axes don't even bother it too much.
When it splits itself is becomes less intelligent.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 07, 2012, 12:31:10 AM
I think you being too biased to see all angles, i prefer the alien franchise over the thing and even the xenomorph itself but even i know the thing would win, the thing has only one main weakness and that is fire and even then not all cells are dead until it is thoroughly burned.
The Thing does not have cells and Acids will work just fine on the Thing, or any-other weapons the Aliens evolve to deal with the Thing.
Match? what are you 12? this ain't boxing or wrestling match, and i was calling your theory of bio-imperative of anti-thing hogwash.
No, i didn't forfeit anything and the thing does have cells, watch the prequel.
Nope, the thing can generate more weapons and shape shift at will so it could kill a xenomorph fairly easily i reckon. The thing would still be more intelligent than a xenomorph unless it smaller than a xenomorph. A xenomorph is not a god, it cannot change form at will, it had no tentacles, it cannot regenerate instantly and it has no flamethrower. A block of ice is still strong pal and the thing has busted through ceilings and floors.
QuoteYou are also forgetting that behind the scenes they are taking more planets than the humans can take back from them.
The thing is, in the EU this isn't true. By the mid 2200s the humans have Berserker kill-teams going around the galaxy stomping Alien ass left and right.
QuoteThe Aliens have been shown to survive worse things that the Thing could not survive. One being Fission and Fusion bombs.
No, nuking them is very effective. I can think of several instances where nuclear explosions wiped out Aliens, most notably the movie 'Aliens'.
You might think we're dogpiling you, and in a sense we are, but a lot of it has to do with your inability to see other people's viewpoints, comprehend very simple concepts, or acknowledge when you're wrong.
I mean, I'm very well versed in Alien lore and EU. I have a copy of everything (minus a handful of the comics that were only printed in the UK 'Aliens' magazine like "Crusade" and the like) and I tend to know what I'm talking about (or, in this instance, when other people aren't).
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
So what you're saying is you made up that "alien biology" stuff and we can ignore it wholesale, got it.
I SAID ITS BIOLOGY IS H2SO4 / HF [H20]!!!SULFURIC ACID IS INORGANIC HYDROGEN FLUORIDE IS INORGANICWATER IS INORGANICQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
Yes seriously, there's probably good reasons why the movie has been really hush-hush thus far and we don't actually know much about the movie other than it's related to the Alien series in some way. You should probably wait until the movie comes out and you have some facts from it before you start citing it as evidence, or you'll look pretty dumb if/when you're wrong.
No I already know whats going to happen.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
You keep saying this like it's some kind of fact, but you haven't actually proven it.
AND NOW YOU ARE IGNORING THE LORE. IF YOU DO THIS ONE MORE TIME YOU FORFEIT!
It is a fact it is inorganic, it's biology is inorganic, its morphology is inorganic.
biology
The life processes or characteristic phenomena of a group or category of living organisms
morphology
This includes aspects of the outward appearance (shape, structure, colour, pattern)[8] as well as the form and structure of the internal parts like bones and organs. This is in contrast to physiology, which deals primarily with function. Morphology is a branch of life science dealing with the study of gross structure of an organism or Taxon and its component parts.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
The sheer number of logic leaps here are so numerous I don't even know where to begin (or if it would even be worth my time).
The important part is that Kleist created something that doesn't occur naturally, something that wouldn't have otherwise happened had he not gotten involved.
You obviously do not understand what bio-imperative does.
Quote*Xenomorphs, are much better tacticians, and are Galacticly aware of what is happening in the Galaxy and or universe.
I think you're going to have to justify this one a little bit. The Thing knows how to make UFOs from spare parts and would have as wide of a "genetic database" as the Alien if not wider, since it can draw upon the knowledge of any creature it's ever assimilated.
It will not be wider than the Aliens since they can evolve what they need whenever they need it. The Aliens also take the knowledge and skills from there hosts and have been shown to be programmable, case and point Snowflakes. They will have an easier time dealing with the 'Thing' than the classics will. Also the Thing did not build a space ship, it built a disc shaped aircraft.
Quote
*Xenomorphs, can psychically see what the Things intentions are, the Queen Mother at least knows what the Thing is Thinking. This makes the Things Morphing ability useless.
How do you know this? (spoiler alert: you don't)
Aliens: Female War
Quote
We assumed the Alien infestations were sporadic, arbitrary-- that they bred wherever convenient, like some horrible cancers. We were WRONG. They Move with PURPOSE. She's calling her children back to her."
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Evidently the Alien Queen is able to communicate in some subconscious fashion. With other species. In human beings, these disseminations manifest themselves in the form of pattern nightmares. The dreams were a lure. At first we thought we'd be able to contain the spore. Infestation seemed limited to a narrow geographic range. And yet for every cluster we found there were ten more just like it.
Aliens: Labyrinth
Quote
This organ is what interests me most. The surface is lined with compound cells of Fullerite-Encased Hurlantium. The internal structure is solid neurons in two binary fans. Very, very dense. I think it's the Alien Psychic receiver. The fullerite and Hurlantium pick up E-Waves and the Binary fans create interference patterns from electro-magnetic fields. So it would not only receive brainwaves but enable the alien to assess another animal's physical characteristics by seeing its subtle body
Look who is wrong... It is you
Xenomrph!!!
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
Here is a shortened of the list of things the "Thing has to deal with.
1)Biological-Imperative
2)Xenomorphs that come from different host have different capabilities
3)Xenomorphs, are much better tacticians, and are Galacticly aware of what is happening in the Galaxy and or universe.
4)Xenomorphs, are nearly-impossible to impossible to assimilate.
5)Whiteys
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
The problem with this is that it all hinges on #4 being true, and you haven't proven it at all.
Yes I have.
1) Acids will protect the Alien from assimilation.
2) Bio-imperatives allows them to evolve fast and adapt to whatever threat the hive faces.
3) Except for the nails and teeth the Thing absorbed, it can't absorb inorganic material.
4) Even if it could infect an assimilate a Alien it would it could never do this when the Alien is alive and or until the blood is not acidic which for human based Warriors takes a long time. When the 'Thing' assimilates something it doesn't pretend to have cells anymore, ergo it can't assimilate living Aliens.
4 is moot because of Bio-imperatives.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
Even if Aliens were better tacticians (which I strongly doubt, and how would you even measure it? They operate on a totally different form of intelligence than humans do since they're, you know, aliens) or had different abilities or had a database of traits they can call upon,
Read the quotes I have posted.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
all it takes is one touch from a Thing and it's game over.
1) Acids will protect the Alien from assimilation.
2) Bio-imperatives allows them to evolve fast and adapt to whatever threat the hive faces.
3) Except for the nails and teeth the Thing absorbed, it can't absorb inorganic material.
4) Even if it could infect an assimilate a Alien it would it could never do this when the Alien is alive and or until the blood is not acidic which for human based Warriors takes a long time. When the 'Thing' assimilates something it doesn't pretend to have cells anymore, ergo it can't assimilate living Aliens.
4 is moot because of Bio-imperatives.
One touch, and the Thing starts to assimilate the Alien. Another Alien tries to kill the new Thing-Alien using the tools at its disposal (claws/tail/whatever) and... it touches it. Now it's infected too. Game over for that Alien too.
1) Acids will protect the Alien from assimilation.
2) Bio-imperatives allows them to evolve fast and adapt to whatever threat the hive faces.
3) Except for the nails and teeth the Thing absorbed, it can't absorb inorganic material.
4) Even if it could infect an assimilate a Alien it would it could never do this when the Alien is alive and or until the blood is not acidic which for human based Warriors takes a long time. When the 'Thing' assimilates something it doesn't pretend to have cells anymore, ergo it can't assimilate living Aliens.
4 is moot because of Bio-imperatives.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
This continues until there's no more Aliens left. If it were so inclined the Thing could actively hunt Aliens down just to infect them because it's an asshole. It knows how to make UFOs and operate complex machinery.
1) Acids will protect the Alien from assimilation.
2) Bio-imperatives allows them to evolve fast and adapt to whatever threat the hive faces.
3) Except for the nails and teeth the Thing absorbed, it can't absorb inorganic material.
4) Even if it could infect an assimilate a Alien it would it could never do this when the Alien is alive and or until the blood is not acidic which for human based Warriors takes a long time. When the 'Thing' assimilates something it doesn't pretend to have cells anymore, ergo it can't assimilate living Aliens.
4 is moot because of Bio-imperatives.
Oh and the Snowflakes can just nuke the planet the Thing is on and or use Laser or flame weapons to deal with the Thing.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 10:07:22 PM
I'd just like to point out that he wasn't (at least in that line you quoted) ignoring canon material. He was pointing out that the a film (base level canon) contradicted events depicted in an expanded universe publication, and chose to believe the film instead of the comic books.
There was no contradiction, and he did ignore the lore more than once.
Also, as long as you're being a canon nazi, The Thing From Another World comics (also by Dark Horse) show that a single touch from even just
a splash of blood from another infected person/animal/whatever is enough to infect someone else. Even if a xeno tore through a Thing like a rabid tiger in a damp tissue factory, it would be infected.
1) Acids will protect the Alien from assimilation.
2) Bio-imperatives allows them to evolve fast and adapt to whatever threat the hive faces.
3) Except for the nails and teeth the Thing absorbed, it can't absorb inorganic material.
4) Even if it could infect an assimilate a Alien it would it could never do this when the Alien is alive and or until the blood is not acidic which for human based Warriors takes a long time. When the 'Thing' assimilates something it doesn't pretend to have cells anymore, ergo it can't assimilate living Aliens.
4 is moot because of Bio-imperatives.
Also Bio-Imperatives will allow them to evolve weapons they need to fight the 'Thing' like acid based attacks, anti-thing enzymes, change its blood into say a mutagenic acid.
There are two outcomes to this fight.
1)The Aliens kill off all the Things on the planet they are on, the Thing has no capabilities to assimilate the Alien let alone kill it. The Thing becomes desperate and tries to kill the Xenomorphs outright instead of assimilating them. The Aliens adapt ether using Acid based attacks and defenses more, AND or developing a anti-Thing enzyme that flat out drops the thing to a 0 threat level and becomes extinct.
2)The Thing becomes a bottom feeder on the planet it shares with the Xenomorphs. This is the same thing that happened with the Metroids and the Parasite X in the Metroid series. Parasite X is exactly like the Thing except it floats through the air. The Metroids were impurvious to Parasites X attacks, so Parasite X went under gournd and stayed in hibernation and or attacked only the lowest lifeforms on the food chain on the planet it was on.
yet again you keep assuming ridiculous things and drawing convenient conclusions from purposely ambiguous data. you can't hide behind a wall of text forever.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 10:24:44 PM
The thing is, in the EU this isn't true. By the mid 2200s the humans have Berserker kill-teams going around the galaxy stomping Alien ass left and right.
That is not true there was only ONE berserker kill team.
Also if it were true what you are saying Humans should have been able to retake Salazar VII.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 10:24:44 PM
No, nuking them is very effective. I can think of several instances where nuclear explosions wiped out Aliens, most notably the movie 'Aliens'.
So are you saying you forfeit this argument? Or are did you forget Aliens did survive the LV-426 incident TWICE! And they survived when all the largest most powerful nukes on earth detonated all over the earth?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 10:24:44 PM
You might think we're dogpiling you, and in a sense we are, but a lot of it has to do with your inability to see other people's viewpoints, comprehend very simple concepts, or acknowledge when you're wrong.
Your view points are incorrect in the fact you ether are forgetting, don't know, or are ignoring the Aliens attributes.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 10:24:44 PM
I mean, I'm very well versed in Alien lore and EU. I have a copy of everything (minus a handful of the comics that were only printed in the UK 'Aliens' magazine like "Crusade" and the like) and I tend to know what I'm talking about (or, in this instance, when other people aren't).
Ha you have errors already in just this one post alone when it comes to Alien lore.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 08, 2012, 11:01:02 PM
yet again you keep assuming ridiculous things and drawing convenient conclusions from purposely ambiguous data.
I am following the lore of Alien, its Bio-Imperative is as dangerous as I have made it out to be. Now your tactic is to make me doubt my references. Which will not work I might add.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 08, 2012, 11:01:02 PM
you can't hide behind a wall of text forever.
So are you saying we get to settle this hand to hand? I will let you use a weapon just to make it fair, ok...?
QuoteI SAID ITS BIOLOGY IS H2SO4 / HF [H20]!!!
SULFURIC ACID IS INORGANIC
HYDROGEN FLUORIDE IS INORGANIC
WATER IS INORGANIC
You keep saying this, but you haven't cited it. We asked for a citation and you refused to give it.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you haven't been to college, because if you had and tried to pull that stunt the outcome wouldn't be pretty.
Perhaps you'd like to provide us some sort of citation on that info, unless you want to "forfeit", to use your words?
QuoteNo I already know whats going to happen.
Did you write the movie or work on it?
If not, then no you don't.
QuoteAlso the Thing did not build a space ship, it built a disc shaped aircraft.
The fact that it built
anything at all makes it more technologically advanced than an Alien.
QuoteLook who is wrong... It is you Xenomrph!!!
The problem with your quotes is that they don't show that your average Alien can read minds, and in fact the Earth War trilogy books are pretty explicit that only the Queen Mother can, and even then it's a "maybe". In Labyrinth they weren't reading thoughts, they were reading brainwaves - all they could see were moods and feelings, it's how they knew if prey was afraid, or aggressive, etc. An EEG can read brain activity, but it's not actually reading
thoughts.
Quote2) Bio-imperatives allows them to evolve fast and adapt to whatever threat the hive faces.
3) Except for the nails and teeth the Thing absorbed, it can't absorb inorganic material.
4) Even if it could infect an assimilate a Alien it would it could never do this when the Alien is alive and or until the blood is not acidic which for human based Warriors takes a long time. When the 'Thing' assimilates something it doesn't pretend to have cells anymore, ergo it can't assimilate living Aliens.
You say "bio-imperatives as if it's some sort of infinite catch-all that covers every possibility, but you're not willing to give the Thing the same benefit of the doubt that it could assimilate any living creature. The only inorganic material we know it can't assimilate is metal.
QuoteOh and the Snowflakes can just nuke the planet the Thing is on and or use Laser or flame weapons to deal with the Thing.
What is a Snowflake? ???
Quote
That is not true there was only ONE berserker kill team.
Also if it were true what you are saying Humans should have been able to retake Salazar VII.
You're forgetting the one from 'Aliens: Tribes'. There was definitely more than one Berserker team. Whoops!
QuoteOr are did you forget Aliens did survive the LV-426 incident TWICE! And they survived when all the largest most powerful nukes on earth detonated all over the earth?
Which times did they survive on LV-426? The Derelict (and its cargo of eggs) survived the events of 'Aliens' because it was behind a mountain range, but the actual Alien hive in the atmosphere processor and colony got hosed when the atmosphere processor exploded.
As for the nukes detonated on Earth, they were only detonated at one mountain, most of the nukes ended up not going off, and even then it
still killed most of the Aliens (which were drawn to the nuke site by the Queen Mother) and allowed the humans to retake the planet. The book 'Aliens: Genocide' and the comic 'Aliens: Alien' (reprinted in 'Dark Horse Presents: Aliens') go into detail on that, and the comic even shows hundreds of Aliens getting blown away by nukes.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 08, 2012, 10:40:50 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
So what you're saying is you made up that "alien biology" stuff and we can ignore it wholesale, got it.
I SAID ITS BIOLOGY IS H2SO4 / HF [H20]!!!
SULFURIC ACID IS INORGANIC
HYDROGEN FLUORIDE IS INORGANIC
WATER IS INORGANIC
Fun fact: the human body is also composed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_the_human_body) of several inorganic materials, along with all the organic ones. ;)
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
Yes seriously, there's probably good reasons why the movie has been really hush-hush thus far and we don't actually know much about the movie other than it's related to the Alien series in some way. You should probably wait until the movie comes out and you have some facts from it before you start citing it as evidence, or you'll look pretty dumb if/when you're wrong.
No I already know whats going to happen.
No, you don't. You may think you do, and you may even be pretty close to the mark, but unless you're on the film crew, you
don't actually know, and won't until its release.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
You keep saying this like it's some kind of fact, but you haven't actually proven it.
AND NOW YOU ARE IGNORING THE LORE. IF YOU DO THIS ONE MORE TIME YOU FORFEIT!
This isn't a debate club, and that's not how arguments actually work. Just because you say we forfeit doesn't mean we're going to stop pointing out inaccuracies in your arguments.
QuoteIt is a fact it is inorganic, it's biology is inorganic, its morphology is inorganic.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
It is a living organism. By the very definition of those words, it is organic. It may not be carbon-based, but it sure as hell is organic and alive.
Quote1) Acids will protect the Alien from assimilation.
2) Bio-imperatives allows them to evolve fast and adapt to whatever threat the hive faces.
3) Except for the nails and teeth the Thing absorbed, it can't absorb inorganic material.
4) Even if it could infect an assimilate a Alien it would it could never do this when the Alien is alive and or until the blood is not acidic which for human based Warriors takes a long time. When the 'Thing' assimilates something it doesn't pretend to have cells anymore, ergo it can't assimilate living Aliens.
4 is moot because of Bio-imperatives.
Oh and the Snowflakes can just nuke the planet the Thing is on and or use Laser or flame weapons to deal with the Thing.
The human body also contains hydrochloric acids, silicone, and even low level irradiated material. The Thing clearly has no trouble infecting, assimilating, and copying these things.
While I guess it's theoretically possible for the alien 'bio-imperitive' to save them from assimilation, I don't see how it would, short of them crossing over into something that isn't 'alive' anymore, like a robot.
And as for nuking the planet, who cares? this is about Things versus Aliens. If anything, the nuking argument works the other way, in that a Thing could infiltrate society and gain access to a nuke to use against the Aliens.
Quotedid you forget Aliens did survive the LV-426 incident TWICE! And they survived when all the largest most powerful nukes on earth detonated all over the earth?
Did
you forget that they've never successfully killed
the one Thing that has arrived on this planet yet? Not once. They burn the bodies, bomb it, murder it, destroy it, and it
always comes back. Play the games. Read the comics. From 1982 to 2011, that one Thing continues to assimilate and divide. They haven't beaten it yet. On the other hand, I don't really need to try too hard to find Aliens dying left and right in any given comic or game.
QuoteOn the other hand, I don't really need to try too hard to find Aliens dying left and right in any given comic or game.
Or movie, for that matter.
Quote3) Except for the nails and teeth the Thing absorbed, it can't absorb inorganic material.
Except for all the dozens of other ones found in dog and human bodies, conveniently enough.
At best they can't assimilate things which aren't naturally occurring. Fillings, earrings, etc. are made of alloys, are treated, etc.
Yeah, saying "inorganic material" is an easy way to convey to the audience and characters that fillings or earrings aren't going to get replicated by the Thing, but the reality is likely "inorganic material EXCEPT for in this lengthy list of exceptions blah blah blah.........."
If it's a naturally occurring chemical, molecule, whatever, the Thing can get it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:30:53 PM
Yeah, saying "inorganic material" is an easy way to convey to the audience and characters that fillings or earrings aren't going to get replicated by the Thing, but the reality is likely "inorganic material EXCEPT for in this lengthy list of exceptions blah blah blah.........."
In other words: it can't replicate stuff not found in the assimilated organism's DNA blueprint.
I myself think that the Thing couldnt assimilate a Alien do to the acid for blood would kill the Thing on contact. If you think about the Alien is the perfect enemey for the Thing since the acid for blood is a great defense mechanism for the perfect organism.
it would need a lot of acid to completely engulf the thing and kill it.
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Feb 08, 2012, 11:33:36 PM
I myself think that the Thing couldnt assimilate a Alien do to the acid for blood would kill the Thing on contact. If you think about the Alien is the perfect enemey for the Thing since the acid for blood is a great defense mechanism for the perfect organism.
But there's no guarantee that the acid would affect a Thing in the way you're assuming. It doesn't seem to be affected by hydrochloric acids, which seems to indicate that while the alien's acid
might affect a Thing, it wouldn't be as dire an effect as you might think.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you haven't been to college, because if you had and tried to pull that stunt the outcome wouldn't be pretty.
Perhaps you'd like to provide us some sort of citation on that info, unless you want to "forfeit", to use your words?
I will not give you the same respect I would a professor. And I would rather "forfeit" than to be controlled by someone like you. You would have to be pretty thick not to be able to find were it says the Aliens biology on the first disc in the Aliens: Anthology.
By the way if you ignore the lore again you forfeit yourself.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
Did you write the movie or work on it?
If not, then no you don't.
::)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
The fact that it built anything at all makes it more technologically advanced than an Alien.
Yeah and...? If given enough time a classic could do the same, if around technology and after coming from someone that knows how to do the same thing. We also have Snowflakes which can use technology very well and probably can repair/build there own stuff given enough time.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
The problem with your quotes is that they don't show that your average Alien can read minds, and in fact the Earth War trilogy books are pretty explicit that only the Queen Mother can, and even then it's a "maybe". In Labyrinth they weren't reading thoughts, they were reading brainwaves - all they could see were moods and feelings, it's how they knew if prey was afraid, or aggressive, etc. An EEG can read brain activity, but it's not actually reading thoughts.
They show in AvP 3 that the Alien Warriors can detect the intentions of whatever it is it looking at.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
You say "bio-imperatives as if it's some sort of infinite catch-all that covers every possibility, but you're not willing to give the Thing the same benefit of the doubt that it could assimilate any living creature. The only inorganic material we know it can't assimilate is metal.
No I am not willing to give it the same abilities that the Aliens have "bio-imperatives" because in every medium there is with the 'Thing', it has not shown to be able to adapt in the same way or same degree. So far the only thing I have seen the Thing do better than an alien is hide is true form.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
What is a Snowflake? ???
White Xenomorph.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
You're forgetting the one from 'Aliens: Tribes'. There was definitely more than one Berserker team. Whoops!
From what I am reading it has no relation to the Berserker armor, they are nothing but juicers.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
Which times did they survive on LV-426? The Derelict (and its cargo of eggs) survived the events of 'Aliens' because it was behind a mountain range, but the actual Alien hive in the atmosphere processor and colony got hosed when the atmosphere processor exploded.
Aliens: Infestation
Aliens: Colonial Marines
Aliens: Female Wars
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
As for the nukes detonated on Earth, they were only detonated at one mountain, most of the nukes ended up not going off, and even then it still killed most of the Aliens (which were drawn to the nuke site by the Queen Mother) and allowed the humans to retake the planet. The book 'Aliens: Genocide' and the comic 'Aliens: Alien' (reprinted in 'Dark Horse Presents: Aliens')
Still they survived the Nuking and had kept hold of American territory for years.
the actual hive in aliens got destroyed. in A:CM, the colony gets re-infestated when the WY personel returns to it after being infected in the derelict. they don't look the same and they aren't the same. those are fresh aliens.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 08, 2012, 11:42:32 PM
By the way if you ignore the lore again you forfeit yourself.
You keep saying that like it will make it true.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
Did you write the movie or work on it?
If not, then no you don't.
::)
The hell does this response even mean?
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
The fact that it built anything at all makes it more technologically advanced than an Alien.
Yeah and...? If given enough time a classic could do the same, if around technology and after coming from someone that knows how to do the same thing. We also have Snowflakes which can use technology very well and probably can repair/build there own stuff given enough time.
...no? By that logic the xeno's would be the dominant species already because they can all fly spaceships and use heavy weaponry. Obviously when Hadley's Hope was over-run WY never found out because the xenos operated the transmitters and com-devices and fooled everyone into thinking everything was okay. Oh wait...
While the xenos
have displayed high intelligence for a predatory animal, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them develop the use of tools in an un-agitated setting, it doesn't quite reach the point of assimilated memories, perfect mimicking of the host down to a cellular level, and
building a spaceship out of spare snowcat parts.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
The problem with your quotes is that they don't show that your average Alien can read minds, and in fact the Earth War trilogy books are pretty explicit that only the Queen Mother can, and even then it's a "maybe". In Labyrinth they weren't reading thoughts, they were reading brainwaves - all they could see were moods and feelings, it's how they knew if prey was afraid, or aggressive, etc. An EEG can read brain activity, but it's not actually reading thoughts.
They show in AvP 3 that the Alien Warriors can detect the intentions of whatever it is it looking at.
That's not really mind-reading. That's just being able to recognize body language. Lots of animals can do that, and people too if they've trained for it.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
You say "bio-imperatives as if it's some sort of infinite catch-all that covers every possibility, but you're not willing to give the Thing the same benefit of the doubt that it could assimilate any living creature. The only inorganic material we know it can't assimilate is metal.
No I am not willing to give it the same abilities that the Aliens have "bio-imperatives" because in every medium there is with the 'Thing', it has not shown to be able to adapt in the same way or same degree. So far the only thing I have seen the Thing do better than an alien is hide is true form.
You clearly haven't read the Thing comics, or you'd see it adapting it's behavior to suit the predicament several times across different mini-series. And maybe it hasn't shown any magical bio-imperative because
it doesn't need one. As I've pointed out, they've yet to even kill the damn thing.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
Which times did they survive on LV-426? The Derelict (and its cargo of eggs) survived the events of 'Aliens' because it was behind a mountain range, but the actual Alien hive in the atmosphere processor and colony got hosed when the atmosphere processor exploded.
Aliens: Infestation
Aliens: Colonial Marines
Aliens: Female Wars
The Aliens in Infestation and Colonial Marines are both due to Company interference, not natural circumstances. And as has been stated before, the events of Female Wars are contradicted by dialogue in Alien Resurrection and is therefor a bit suspect to use as evidence.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
Fun fact: the human body is also composed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_the_human_body) of several inorganic materials, along with all the organic ones. ;)
And alot of those things are really organic because the carbon is the backbone molecule.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
Yes seriously, there's probably good reasons why the movie has been really hush-hush thus far and we don't actually know much about the movie other than it's related to the Alien series in some way. You should probably wait until the movie comes out and you have some facts from it before you start citing it as evidence, or you'll look pretty dumb if/when you're wrong.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
This isn't a debate club, and that's not how arguments actually work. Just because you say we forfeit doesn't mean we're going to stop pointing out inaccuracies in your arguments.
I do not have any inaccuracies in my argument.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Do you? I know I do.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
It is a living organism. By the very definition of those words, it is organic. It may not be carbon-based, but it sure as hell is organic and alive.
Your definition of what is and isn't organic doesn't apply to this creature. It is for all intense and purposes ether a Bioroid or a Reploid. Just so you know right this very moment scientist are working on making inorganic life, and I do not mean robots.
QuoteProf Cronin said: "All life on earth is based on organic biology (i.e. carbon in the form of amino acids, nucleotides, and sugars, etc.) but the inorganic world is considered to be inanimate.
Quote1) Acids will protect the Alien from assimilation.
2) Bio-imperatives allows them to evolve fast and adapt to whatever threat the hive faces.
3) Except for the nails and teeth the Thing absorbed, it can't absorb inorganic material.
4) Even if it could infect an assimilate a Alien it would it could never do this when the Alien is alive and or until the blood is not acidic which for human based Warriors takes a long time. When the 'Thing' assimilates something it doesn't pretend to have cells anymore, ergo it can't assimilate living Aliens.
4 is moot because of Bio-imperatives.
Oh and the Snowflakes can just nuke the planet the Thing is on and or use Laser or flame weapons to deal with the Thing.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
The human body also contains hydrochloric acids,
That is only one thing so far it can assimilate. It would have to be able to assimilate everything that the Alien is to imitate it.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
silicone,
To be exact, the human body has silicon in it known as "Silicic acid" which is not the same as Silicon.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
and even low level irradiated material. The Thing clearly has no trouble infecting, assimilating, and copying these things.
Everything does.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
While I guess it's theoretically possible for the alien 'bio-imperitive' to save them from assimilation, I don't see how it would, short of them crossing over into something that isn't 'alive' anymore, like a robot.
The can, and have, most acid based weapons. Or change there blood into something else more dangerous like Mutagenic Acids. Or develop an enzyme that will kill the thing, if they don't already.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
And as for nuking the planet, who cares? this is about Things versus Aliens. If anything, the nuking argument works the other way, in that a Thing could infiltrate society and gain access to a nuke to use against the Aliens.
Yes this is about Aliens vs The Thing, this topic will inculde everything they can do. So yes if the Thing could possible infiltrate society and grab nuke it could use it on them, however they are resistant to nukes, and the military because of the way it runs would be a lot more difficult to infiltrate during the times of the Aliens than the eras the Thing has been in.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
Did you forget that they've never successfully killed the one Thing that has arrived on this planet yet? Not once. They burn the bodies, bomb it, murder it, destroy it, and it always comes back. Play the games. Read the comics. From 1982 to 2011, that one Thing continues to assimilate and divide. They haven't beaten it yet. On the other hand, I don't really need to try too hard to find Aliens dying left and right in any given comic or game.
The difference between the two is that the Aliens actually have taken over planets, including Earth for a time. Planets that have active eco-system that Aliens control are next to impossible to take back from the Aliens because they do not ever stop making more of themselves.
The Thing on the other hand has not taken over earth, has died a lot, and from what I have seen still alive up till the last game because the American tried to turn it into a weapon.
you don't know if the thing has taken over planets or not. it has more likely done so.
would this (http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/watts_01_10/) be considered canon for the thing?
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:39:33 PM
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Feb 08, 2012, 11:33:36 PM
I myself think that the Thing couldnt assimilate a Alien do to the acid for blood would kill the Thing on contact. If you think about the Alien is the perfect enemey for the Thing since the acid for blood is a great defense mechanism for the perfect organism.
But there's no guarantee that the acid would affect a Thing in the way you're assuming. It doesn't seem to be affected by hydrochloric acids, which seems to indicate that while the alien's acid might affect a Thing, it wouldn't be as dire an effect as you might think.
The acid used in the human body is nowhere near as strong as the acid used by the Aliens. Since we have seen Jockey Aliens, and Prateriens spit out huge amount of acid, and others including human based warriors develop teeth that allows them to pump acid right into whatever it is its biting, its a good bet they have enough acids.
i doubt they have enough acid to kill a thing.
The thing could have possibly taken over worlds, the ufo was in a hurry before something caused it to crash.
the thing would have to be SUBMERGED in acid for several minutes to be completely terminated. even if a tiny pint, if any particle floating in the air gets away, the thing prevails.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 12:52:19 AM
the thing would have to be SUBMERGED in acid for several minutes to be completely terminated. even if a tiny pint, if any particle floating in the air gets away, the thing prevails.
Indeed, its the most infectious lifeform ever as it can assimilate in many ways, either through somehow introducing one of its cells to a lifeform, stabbing lifeform with an appendage which would start the assimilation process within the lifeform or it could simply swallow a lifeform and absorb it.
QuoteAnd alot of those things are really organic because the carbon is the backbone molecule.
Iron is iron. Same with gold. And half the other things on the list. Carbon molecules don't factor into it.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 12:37:28 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
Fun fact: the human body is also composed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_the_human_body) of several inorganic materials, along with all the organic ones. ;)
And alot of those things are really organic because the carbon is the backbone molecule.
I may just be ignorant of this, but where is it said that the xenos aren't carbon-based?
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 07, 2012, 04:56:05 AM
Yes seriously, there's probably good reasons why the movie has been really hush-hush thus far and we don't actually know much about the movie other than it's related to the Alien series in some way. You should probably wait until the movie comes out and you have some facts from it before you start citing it as evidence, or you'll look pretty dumb if/when you're wrong.
Hmm. You don't seem to have actually responded to this one despite giving it it's own quote block.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
This isn't a debate club, and that's not how arguments actually work. Just because you say we forfeit doesn't mean we're going to stop pointing out inaccuracies in your arguments.
I do not have any inaccuracies in my argument.
...we're clearly (http://cdn.twentytwowords.com/wp-content/uploads/Flowchart-to-determine-if-youre-having-a-rational-discussion-e1300206446831-634x882.jpg) not actually having a discussion anymore...
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Do you? I know I do.
well the way you seem to be using the word 'inorganic' I'm fairly certain that I could argue that Humans are 'inorganic' and therefor, by your logic, immune to assimilation by a Thing.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
It is a living organism. By the very definition of those words, it is organic. It may not be carbon-based, but it sure as hell is organic and alive.
Your definition of what is and isn't organic doesn't apply to this creature. It is for all intents and purposes ether a Bioroid or a Reploid. Just so you know right this very moment scientist are working on making inorganic life, and I do not mean robots.
Your dubious use of the term 'inorganic' aside, how the hell is a xeno a bioroid or reploid? They seem pretty much 100% biological in everything I've come across, but I'm willing to concede that I may be misinformed.
As an aside, do you have a link to the inorganic life thing? That's actually really cool and I'd like to read up on it.
QuoteQuote1) Acids will protect the Alien from assimilation.
2) Bio-imperatives allows them to evolve fast and adapt to whatever threat the hive faces.
3) Except for the nails and teeth the Thing absorbed, it can't absorb inorganic material.
4) Even if it could infect an assimilate a Alien it would it could never do this when the Alien is alive and or until the blood is not acidic which for human based Warriors takes a long time. When the 'Thing' assimilates something it doesn't pretend to have cells anymore, ergo it can't assimilate living Aliens.
4 is moot because of Bio-imperatives.
Oh and the Snowflakes can just nuke the planet the Thing is on and or use Laser or flame weapons to deal with the Thing.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
The human body also contains hydrochloric acids,
That is only one thing so far it can assimilate. It would have to be able to assimilate everything that the Alien is to imitate it.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
silicone,
To be exact, the human body has silicon in it known as "Silicic acid" which is not the same as Silicon.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
and even low level irradiated material. The Thing clearly has no trouble infecting, assimilating, and copying these things.
Everything does.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
While I guess it's theoretically possible for the alien 'bio-imperitive' to save them from assimilation, I don't see how it would, short of them crossing over into something that isn't 'alive' anymore, like a robot.
The can, and have, most acid based weapons. Or change there blood into something else more dangerous like Mutagenic Acids. Or develop an enzyme that will kill the thing, if they don't already.
This is all based on the assumption that a Thing wouldn't be able to get past an Alien's acid 'blood'. Evidence suggests that a Thing might actually be able to process the acids, using human digestive acids as a baseline. No evidence suggests, however, that a Thing
wouldn't be able to handle the acid, but I'll be nice and admit that we have no way of knowing at the moment, even though the evidence points against your argument. ;)
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
And as for nuking the planet, who cares? this is about Things versus Aliens. If anything, the nuking argument works the other way, in that a Thing could infiltrate society and gain access to a nuke to use against the Aliens.
Yes this is about Aliens vs The Thing, this topic will inculde everything they can do. So yes if the Thing could possible infiltrate society and grab nuke it could use it on them, however they are resistant to nukes, and the military because of the way it runs would be a lot more difficult to infiltrate during the times of the Aliens than the eras the Thing has been in.
First of all, just because Aliens as a whole
might be able to recover their numbers from having a nuke dropped on them, Aliens as a unit sure as hell
aren't resistant to nukes. And have never been shown to be so. Nukes kill xenos just fine. The trick is, I admit, killing
all of them.
Also, one could argue that a Thing would have an
easier time of it infiltrating the military during a xeno outbreak. They're not looking for something that looks just like them, something that looks just like someone they've known their whole lives, knows how to act and what to say, etc... They're looking for a xeno. Nothing to worry about from your own men. ;)
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
Did you forget that they've never successfully killed the one Thing that has arrived on this planet yet? Not once. They burn the bodies, bomb it, murder it, destroy it, and it always comes back. Play the games. Read the comics. From 1982 to 2011, that one Thing continues to assimilate and divide. They haven't beaten it yet. On the other hand, I don't really need to try too hard to find Aliens dying left and right in any given comic or game.
The difference between the two is that the Aliens actually have taken over planets, including Earth for a time. Planets that have active eco-system that Aliens control are next to impossible to take back from the Aliens because they do not ever stop making more of themselves.
The Thing on the other hand has not taken over earth, has died a lot, and from what I have seen still alive up till the last game because the American tried to turn it into a weapon.
The Thing hasn't died. Ever.
Parts of it may have been destroyed but it continues to come back time and time again. And the key word in your sentence is
tried. They have tried and failed to weaponize the Thing. They have tried and failed to create a poison to use against it. It survives all of the various stories set in 1982, appearing in Hunt the THING (set in 2011), where all you succeed in doing by the end of the campaign is encasing it (multiple full-bodied iterations, actually) in ice,
not killing it.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 12:43:01 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:39:33 PM
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Feb 08, 2012, 11:33:36 PM
I myself think that the Thing couldnt assimilate a Alien do to the acid for blood would kill the Thing on contact. If you think about the Alien is the perfect enemey for the Thing since the acid for blood is a great defense mechanism for the perfect organism.
But there's no guarantee that the acid would affect a Thing in the way you're assuming. It doesn't seem to be affected by hydrochloric acids, which seems to indicate that while the alien's acid might affect a Thing, it wouldn't be as dire an effect as you might think.
The acid used in the human body is nowhere near as strong as the acid used by the Aliens. Since we have seen Jockey Aliens, and Prateriens spit out huge amount of acid, and others including human based warriors develop teeth that allows them to pump acid right into whatever it is its biting, its a good bet they have enough acids.
Jockey aliens are null and void at the moment. The "jockeys" as depicted in the comics can no longer be considered canon due to the fact that we now know that they are based off of a fossilized space suit that was mistakenly believed to be the outer appearance of the creature itself. Early trailers seem to indicate that the Jockeys actually look quite similar to humans. Until the finalized depiction of the jockeys is seen in Prometheus upon release, we can't take Jockey Aliens based on previous Jockey depictions into account.
And, as others have pointed out, you'd have to submerge a Thing in a molecular acid bath, and make sure that every cell was broken down to be absolutely sure.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 12:04:41 AM
You keep saying that like it will make it true.
It is true, I do not write to nero anymore, if the block button wasn't useless I would just block him, and Xenomrph.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
The fact that it built anything at all makes it more technologically advanced than an Alien.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 12:04:41 AM
While the xenos have displayed high intelligence for a predatory animal, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them develop the use of tools in an un-agitated setting, it doesn't quite reach the point of assimilated memories, perfect mimicking of the host down to a cellular level, and building a spaceship out of spare snowcat parts.
For starters the Thing didn't build a spaceship. Also you wont see any aliens in "Aliens" building a space ship because no one their is a crew member for a star ship. The ship, and the crew of the ship, dropped those people off on LV-426 and left.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 12:04:41 AM
That's not really mind-reading. That's just being able to recognize body language. Lots of animals can do that, and people too if they've trained for it.
No it's not, the Alien can since the pheromones of whatever it is looking at, and can tell jut with that if it is a treat or not. Being able to see the brainwaves also helps them detect the intentions of whatever it is they are looking at.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
You clearly haven't read the Thing comics, or you'd see it adapting it's behavior to suit the predicament several times across different mini-series. And maybe it hasn't shown any magical bio-imperative because it doesn't need one. As I've pointed out, they've yet to even kill the damn thing.
Obviously its adaptions are not enough if it can't take over Earth at the time the stories are written.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
The Aliens in Infestation and Colonial Marines are both due to Company interference, not natural circumstances. And as has been stated before, the events of Female Wars are contradicted by dialogue in Alien Resurrection and is therefor a bit suspect to use as evidence.
Do you have prof the company caused the Aliens active during the events of the two games?
As for Female wars there is no contradictions in the dialogue in Alien Resurrection. Hell after they get to they land on Earth you can see it is a waste land because of what happen long ago.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 12:42:52 AM
you don't know if the thing has taken over planets or not. it has more likely done so.
would this (http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/watts_01_10/) be considered canon for the thing?
No this is not canon. Childs is found dead in the games from exposure.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 12:52:19 AM
the thing would have to be SUBMERGED in acid for several minutes to be completely terminated. even if a tiny pint, if any particle floating in the air gets away, the thing prevails.
If it is fighting an Alien on a dead world it is screwed because there will be nothing for it to assimilate.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 09, 2012, 12:55:34 AM
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 12:52:19 AM
the thing would have to be SUBMERGED in acid for several minutes to be completely terminated. even if a tiny pint, if any particle floating in the air gets away, the thing prevails.
Indeed, its the most infectious lifeform ever as it can assimilate in many ways, either through somehow introducing one of its cells to a lifeform, stabbing lifeform with an appendage which would start the assimilation process within the lifeform or it could simply swallow a lifeform and absorb it.
yeah, and even if it's covered in acid, it can just split into another creature and that creature will live and grow. you have to kill all of it, simultaneously, instantly. and even then, there will be traces of thing in every footstep, in every wall, in every single spot the thing touched or habitated, in every spray of blood that flies in the air, every single invisible and untouchable molecule, trillions of them, all capable of growing to be a huge monster, as intelligent and perfectly guised and adapted for the world as any native inhabitant, or even more, judging by the untold amounts of intelligent beings it seems to have taken over and incorporated in it's common, all knowing consience.
it's not just organism, it's not a creature, it's an
entire troposphere of life that cannot be extincted without disintegrating the whole planet. the alien either lives IN the thing, or stops reproducing and fades away as the bizarre, chimeric, and unimpregnable forms of the thing kill them off without minding their acid, as they are infinitely numerous and evergrowing.
every single drop of acid of every alien could kill a piece of >a< thing and they would still reform and kill an alien, because if the thing is of the same or similar size, the alien would have to be completely drained of blood to even cover it externally. we call that bleeding to death. and the thing could just f**king deal with it. infact, it could bleed all aliens to death and still live on hitching a ride on a rat, on a bug, on a fungus, on anything that has cells, the thing will not give a damn.
there will ALWAYS be more things, and there will ALWAYS be less aliens, because every single thing the alien can reproduce with will be taken over and bastardized by the thing, until there's no more aliens. the thing just can't be wiped out without the forces of the universe itself.
if the thing goes loose, it's game over. mankind and alienkind is over.
all of life is over. they put "thing" in "everything".
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 01:38:03 AM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 09, 2012, 12:55:34 AM
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 12:52:19 AM
the thing would have to be SUBMERGED in acid for several minutes to be completely terminated. even if a tiny pint, if any particle floating in the air gets away, the thing prevails.
Indeed, its the most infectious lifeform ever as it can assimilate in many ways, either through somehow introducing one of its cells to a lifeform, stabbing lifeform with an appendage which would start the assimilation process within the lifeform or it could simply swallow a lifeform and absorb it.
yeah, and even if it's covered in acid, it can just split into another creature and that creature will live and grow. you have to kill all of it, simultaneously, instantly. and even then, there will be traces of thing in every footstep, in every wall, in every single spot the thing touched or habitated, in every spray of blood that flies in the air, every single invisible and untouchable molecule, trillions of them, all capable of growing to be a huge monster, as intelligent and perfectly guised and adapted for the world as any native inhabitant, or even more, judging by the untold amounts of intelligent beings it seems to have taken over and incorporated in it's common, all knowing consience.
it's not just organism, it's not a creature, it's an entire troposphere of life that cannot be extincted without disintegrating the whole planet. the alien either lives IN the thing, or stops reproducing and fades away as the bizarre, chimeric, and unimpregnable forms of the thing kill them off without minding their acid, as they are infinitely numerous and evergrowing.
every single drop of acid of every alien could kill a piece of >a< thing and they would still reform and kill an alien, because if the thing is of the same or similar size, the alien would have to be completely drained of blood to even cover it externally. we call that bleeding to death. and the thing could just f**king deal with it. infact, it could bleed all aliens to death and still live on hitching a ride on a rat, on a bug, on a fungus, on anything that has cells, the thing will not give a damn.
there will ALWAYS be more things, and there will ALWAYS be less aliens, because every single thing the alien can reproduce with will be taken over and bastardized by the thing, until there's no more aliens. the thing just can't be wiped out without the forces of the universe itself.
if the thing goes loose, it's game over. mankind and alienkind is over. all of life is over. they put "thing" in "everything".
Yep, even the main characters of the films know this. That is why they attempt to stop their fellow humans from leaving until they know for sure who is human.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 01:28:48 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 12:04:41 AM
You keep saying that like it will make it true.
It is true, I do not write to nero anymore, if the block button wasn't useless I would just block him, and Xenomrph.
That's hardly them forfeiting. If anything that's you putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALA" at the top of your lungs.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
The fact that it built anything at all makes it more technologically advanced than an Alien.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 12:04:41 AM
While the xenos have displayed high intelligence for a predatory animal, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them develop the use of tools in an un-agitated setting, it doesn't quite reach the point of assimilated memories, perfect mimicking of the host down to a cellular level, and building a spaceship out of spare snowcat parts.
For starters the Thing didn't build a spaceship. Also you wont see any aliens in "Aliens" building a space ship because no one their is a crew member for a star ship. The ship, and the crew of the ship, dropped those people off on LV-426 and left.
Can you point me to where it is stated Aliens get this sort of knowledge from their hosts?
Also, it
has built a space ship. Again, read the damn comics.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 12:04:41 AM
That's not really mind-reading. That's just being able to recognize body language. Lots of animals can do that, and people too if they've trained for it.
No it's not, the Alien can since the pheromones of whatever it is looking at, and can tell jut with that if it is a treat or not. Being able to see the brainwaves also helps them detect the intentions of whatever it is they are looking at.
Being able to read pheromones is hardly mind-reading. Nor is picking up brain waves. Neither is exactly a remarkable feat in the animal kingdom.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
You clearly haven't read the Thing comics, or you'd see it adapting it's behavior to suit the predicament several times across different mini-series. And maybe it hasn't shown any magical bio-imperative because it doesn't need one. As I've pointed out, they've yet to even kill the damn thing.
Obviously its adaptions are not enough if it can't take over Earth at the time the stories are written.
If anything indicated it actually wanted to take over the Earth I
might agree with you. It's only noticeable objectives seems to be to
escape the planet, first on the ship, and then by building one of its own (twice). It then tries to survive, and get rid of people that are a threat to its survival.
Just because it hasn't mindlessly over-run the planet doesn't mean it's not as adaptable as an Alien.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 08, 2012, 11:12:20 PM
The Aliens in Infestation and Colonial Marines are both due to Company interference, not natural circumstances. And as has been stated before, the events of Female Wars are contradicted by dialogue in Alien Resurrection and is therefor a bit suspect to use as evidence.
Do you have prof the company caused the Aliens active during the events of the two games?
As for Female wars there is no contradictions in the dialogue in Alien Resurrection. Hell after they get to they land on Earth you can see it is a waste land because of what happen long ago.
I don't have any proof as far as CM is concerned because
it's not out yet, a fact you seem to neglect about it and other titles. In Infestation the Aliens on Acheron are infested members of the UDP crew that were investigating the remains of the colony as well as the Derelict. Try playing the game before you site it again.
Yes, there
are contradictions in Res. The scientists state they haven't seen anything like the Aliens since Ripley's time, and the crew of the Betty has never even
heard of them before. Earth is a dump, but there's nothing to indicate it's from Aliens over-running the planet. Considering how quickly nations rebuilt after WWII, I find it hard to believe Earth's cities would still be so run down a couple hundred years after clearing the Xeno's off the damn planet.
QuoteYou would have to be pretty thick not to be able to find were it says the Aliens biology on the first disc in the Aliens: Anthology.
By the way if you ignore the lore again you forfeit yourself.
I'm asking you to cite it for the benefit of the people who don't have access to the blu-ray. It's really not that complex.
QuoteBy the way if you ignore the lore again you forfeit yourself.
I'm waiting for you to prove that it's actually a part of the lore before I acknowledge it.
QuoteYeah and...? If given enough time a classic could do the same, if around technology and after coming from someone that knows how to do the same thing. We also have Snowflakes which can use technology very well and probably can repair/build there own stuff given enough time.
What are these "Snowflakes" from, exactly? I'm looking for some kind of citation.
Also if Aliens could use technology, why do they have to hitchhike on other people's ships all the time? The EU is chock-full of Alien hives that are older than dirt, and the Aliens never use technology. The closest they've come is in 'Nightmare Asylum' (which ended up being a total failure) and 'Labyrinth', with their rudimentary "science experiments" to save their dying hive.
QuoteThey show in AvP 3 that the Alien Warriors can detect the intentions of whatever it is it looking at.
Yeah, but that's still moods, it's not actual thought-reading. My cat can read my mood, and she's not psychic (I think).
QuoteNo I am not willing to give it the same abilities that the Aliens have "bio-imperatives" because in every medium there is with the 'Thing', it has not shown to be able to adapt in the same way or same degree. So far the only thing I have seen the Thing do better than an alien is hide is true form.
That, and
not die. The Thing can be shot, stabbed, lit on fire, frozen, blown up with dynamite, and if even the smallest part of it isn't completely vaporized it's still a problem.
Quote
From what I am reading it has no relation to the Berserker armor, they are nothing but juicers.
The one in 'Tribes' is totally a Berserker team. They say the term by name. "Shitkicker" is their MOX unit, a variant on the MAX unit that shows up in 'Aliens: Berserker'.
QuoteStill they survived the Nuking and had kept hold of American territory for years.
Some Aliens survived because they weren't caught in the direct blast and were outside the blast radius, so yes their species survived (but ultimately got wiped off the planet when humans reclaimed it anyway) but that doesn't mean they're actually immune to nukes. A nuclear blast
can kill them. It'll kill them dead.
QuoteI do not have any inaccuracies in my argument.
The problem is that you do, and you're unwilling/unable to acknowledge it.
QuoteFor starters the Thing didn't build a spaceship. Also you wont see any aliens in "Aliens" building a space ship because no one their is a crew member for a star ship. The ship, and the crew of the ship, dropped those people off on LV-426 and left.
This assumes Aliens gain memories from their hosts or something, which nothing in the EU indicates that they do.
The Thing, on the other hand, DOES gain knowledge from the creatures it assimilates. It has to, in order to create a perfect imitation that behaves appropriately.
---------------------------------------
QuoteYes, there are contradictions in Res. The scientists state they haven't seen anything like the Aliens since Ripley's time, and the crew of the Betty has never even heard of them before. Earth is a dump, but there's nothing to indicate it's from Aliens over-running the planet. Considering how quickly nations rebuilt after WWII, I find it hard to believe Earth's cities would still be so run down a couple hundred years after clearing the Xeno's off the damn planet.
Well to be totally fair, there's ways to work around the apparent contradictions in Resurrection, and the comics offer the "Big Deletion" idea as a sort of half-assed way to address it - basically a computer virus wipes out the entire sum of human knowledge and isolates Earth from all the colonies for like 100+ years, and it basically puts humanity back into the stone age as it tries to recover.
Also there's other ways to interpret some of the stuff from Resurrection - Call obviously knew what Aliens were, and you could interpret Christie's actions as knowing what was going on, too - he takes the problem seriously right from the start. Most of the other mercenary characters don't seem to go one way or another, to be honest. The scientists all knew what Aliens were and had enough specialized equipment to breed them and contain them, even if they apparently forgot about the acid blood.
Earth being a shithole obviously isn't because of the Alien infestation in the comics - even in the comics humanity is able to rebuild and whatnot fairly rapidly after reclaiming the planet.
Personally I'm willing to overlook/creatively reinterpret a line or two in 'Resurrection' if it means I don't have to discard the vast majority of the EU, which I happen to like. :)
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:16:23 AM
I may just be ignorant of this, but where is it said that the xenos aren't carbon-based?
There biology is made up inorganic components. Their morphology is heavily based on silicon polymers.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:16:23 AM
well the way you seem to be using the word 'inorganic' I'm fairly certain that I could argue that Humans are 'inorganic' and therefor, by your logic, immune to assimilation by a Thing.
Humans are not inorganic because they are made up of organic carbon.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110915091625.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110915091625.htm)
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:16:23 AM
This is all based on the assumption that a Thing wouldn't be able to get past an Alien's acid 'blood'. Evidence suggests that a Thing might actually be able to process the acids, using human digestive acids as a baseline. No evidence suggests, however, that a Thing wouldn't be able to handle the acid, but I'll be nice and admit that we have no way of knowing at the moment, even though the evidence points against your argument. ;)
Not really they are both different acids. The acids you are talking about cant do what the Aliens did in the time that it did it. All acids are different in formula to each other. Some are organic, some are inorganic. Some are gasses unless they are correctly mixed with water.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
First of all, just because Aliens as a whole might be able to recover their numbers from having a nuke dropped on them, Aliens as a unit sure as hell aren't resistant to nukes.
They are at least very resistant to Radiations, except neutron and photon. The Alien in Alien survived being in a Nuclear jet turbine.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
Also, one could argue that a Thing would have an easier time of it infiltrating the military during a xeno outbreak. They're not looking for something that looks just like them, something that looks just like someone they've known their whole lives, knows how to act and what to say, etc... They're looking for a xeno. Nothing to worry about from your own men. ;)
Problem is in the the time during the Aliens all the soldiers vitals are watched and they have a head mounted camera. Some one would see the thing actually attack one of these people through the camera.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
The Thing hasn't died. Ever. Parts of it may have been destroyed but it continues to come back time and time again. And the key word in your sentence is tried. They have tried and failed to weaponize the Thing. They have tried and failed to create a poison to use against it. It survives all of the various stories set in 1982, appearing in Hunt the THING (set in 2011), where all you succeed in doing by the end of the campaign is encasing it (multiple full-bodied iterations, actually) in ice, not killing it.
Same is said about the Alien, humans tried weaponizing it and have failed. As for the Thing being frozen at the end of the game that is also not true. Blake used a light artillery weapon and explosive barrels to kill Carrier B4 the largest thing I have ever seen and it was immobile.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 12:43:01 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
But there's no guarantee that the acid would affect a Thing in the way you're assuming. It doesn't seem to be affected by hydrochloric acids, which seems to indicate that while the alien's acid might affect a Thing, it wouldn't be as dire an effect as you might think.
You are just generalizing acids which is not the right thing to do. Your comment if correct would mean that throwing a jar of butyric acid on a thing would alow it to resist every other acid known and unknown to man, which is wrong.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
Jockey aliens are null and void at the moment. The "jockeys" as depicted in the comics can no longer be considered canon due to the fact that we now know that they are based off of a fossilized space suit that was mistakenly believed to be the outer appearance of the creature itself. Early trailers seem to indicate that the Jockeys actually look quite similar to humans. Until the finalized depiction of the jockeys is seen in Prometheus upon release, we can't take Jockey Aliens based on previous Jockey depictions into account.
The appearance can be different because the Jockeys are using different models of biomechanical suits. I do not think it is a suit anyway because the one in Alien has a mouth, what would be the point in having a suit with a mouth?
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
And, as others have pointed out, you'd have to submerge a Thing in a molecular acid bath, and make sure that every cell was broken down to be absolutely sure.
As much as some of them pump out, acid, and taken into consideration how strong the acid is before they alter it, I would say it doesn't need to be submerged in acid.
QuoteI do not think it is a suit anyway because the one in Alien has a mouth, what would be the point in having a suit with a mouth?
Finally, something I agree with. The Jockey "corpse" in 'Alien' had teeth and shit, it really doesn't look like a suit.
Frankly, I hope 'Prometheus' doesn't make it be a suit with a human inside it. I want it to be a damn wacky looking extraterrestrial, not something human-ish.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 01:38:03 AM
Indeed, its the most infectious lifeform ever as it can assimilate in many ways, either through somehow introducing one of its cells to a lifeform, stabbing lifeform with an appendage which would start the assimilation process within the lifeform or it could simply swallow a lifeform and absorb it.
The problem is that the blood and Bio-Imperative makes this moot at least when concerning aliens.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 01:38:03 AM
yeah, and even if it's covered in acid, it can just split into another creature and that creature will live and grow.
Not if its covered in Acid too.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 01:38:03 AM
you have to kill all of it, simultaneously, instantly. and even then, there will be traces of thing in every footstep, in every wall, in every single spot the thing touched or habitated, in every spray of blood that flies in the air, every single invisible and untouchable molecule, trillions of them, all capable of growing to be a huge monster, as intelligent and perfectly guised and adapted for the world as any native inhabitant, or even more,
Yes and that would be dangerous for other creatures, but not so much so for Xenomorphs. maybe a few other things that we don't know about ether.
Also if this fight were on a planet that was very very cold, or insanely hot, or another very hostile place, the Thing is screwed, it will ether go into hibernation or die.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 01:38:03 AM
judging by the untold amounts of intelligent beings it seems to have taken over and incorporated in it's common, all knowing consience.
It doesn't have an all knowing consience. If it did Earth would be gone, or better yet the saucer that crashed onto earth would not have crashed, the thing would have flown it away from earth.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 01:38:03 AM
it's not just organism, it's not a creature, it's an entire troposphere of life that cannot be extincted without disintegrating the whole planet.
That is until the Aliens use there bio-imperative.
Besides that we also know that the Thing can't actuly live on all the planets the Xenomorph acupy because the Thing is shown to be stuned from cold weather environments. We also know the poisons work on them as well, so that would rule out the Thing ever wanting to come to planet that is not M class that has Xenomorphs on it.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 01:38:03 AM
the alien either lives IN the thing, or stops reproducing and fades away as the bizarre, chimeric, and unimpregnable forms of the thing kill them off without minding their acid, as they are infinitely numerous and evergrowing.
Well the reproduction part could happen, except with the Queen Mother she is always making more Super Aliens aka Chosen Protector.
However because there are so many different Aliens, and they can all quickly adapted to whatever threat there is to the hive because of bio-imperative, in the end the Xenomorphs will prevail, ether because the Thing gets sick and or dies just from touching them, they use more Acid based weapons or poisons OR the Thing just leaves the Xenomorph alone because it is just to deadly for it.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 01:38:03 AM
every single drop of acid of every alien could kill a piece of >a< thing and they would still reform and kill an alien, because if the thing is of the same or similar size, the alien would have to be completely drained of blood to even cover it externally.
we call that bleeding to death. and the thing could just f**king deal with it.
You are assuming you are dealing with one human based Warrior. On the planets they have conquered the 'Thing' will have to deal with all the different Aliens that came from different host, Whale Aliens dwarf any Thing I have ever seen. Hell Whale Aliens that are warriors dwarf the largest Nid bio-titans.
Also the Thing is going to have to deal with the whole hive. One Xenomorph Prime they couldn't get correct reading on how many there were, but it would be over trillions of different Xeonmorphs. When they all came out of hibernation there were so-many of them that not one bit of the planets surface could be scene except the mountain tops.
So on top of that The Queens, War Empress, and Queen Mother can use Bio-Imperative and make them fully capable of killing the Thing permanently.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 01:38:03 AM
infact, it could bleed all aliens to death and still live on hitching a ride on a rat, on a bug, on a fungus, on anything that has cells, the thing will not give a damn.
Well we have scene that the Alien can regenerate there acid fast, but you tactic with the Thing hiticing a ride on another creature that is not a Xenomorph only works if it is not on a hostile planet, and or has life. If the Thing ends up on a world with no life at all with no breathable gases or/and is super hot or cold the Thing is screwed.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 01:38:03 AM
there will ALWAYS be more things, and there will ALWAYS be less aliens, because every single thing the alien can reproduce with will be taken over and bastardized by the thing, until there's no more aliens. the thing just can't be wiped out without the forces of the universe itself.
The Queen Mother makes Super Aliens without need of a host.
you're assuming that the thing was piloting the ufo, there is a lot of theories about the ufo and its potential pilot one which is that the thing attacked the pilot.
The cold weather doesn't stun the thing, they operate fine in it, they were walking around and killing people just find outside the outposts. its possible it just chooses to go into hibernation.
Again you're using this "bio-imperative"as an excuse, they didn't adapt to predators and they didn't adapt well to humans, the only time they do any unique adapting that changes their form is when they come from a certain host type.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 02:11:48 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:16:23 AM
I may just be ignorant of this, but where is it said that the xenos aren't carbon-based?
There biology is made up inorganic components. Their morphology is heavily based on silicon polymers.
That didn't actually answer my question of
where this is stated.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:16:23 AM
well the way you seem to be using the word 'inorganic' I'm fairly certain that I could argue that Humans are 'inorganic' and therefor, by your logic, immune to assimilation by a Thing.
Humans are not inorganic because they are made up of organic carbon.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110915091625.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110915091625.htm)
Okay, let's try a different tact. The Aliens are, regardless of your definition of 'inorganic', at the very least cellular in nature. They are made up of cells. They have to be, other wise they wouldn't logically be able to absorb traits from the host creature. Non-cellular things (stones, glass, etc) don't have DNA. Aliens have DNA, and cells, and some biological trait allows them to take on some of ours as they gestate inside of us.
A Thing copies and mimics its prey on a cellular level, as seen in both films. Its cells take over and mimic our cells. Or a dog's cells. Or whatever's cells. It copies cells, and by extension DNA, and builds itself into a copy of the assimilated victim.
Aliens have cells. They can be infected.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:16:23 AM
This is all based on the assumption that a Thing wouldn't be able to get past an Alien's acid 'blood'. Evidence suggests that a Thing might actually be able to process the acids, using human digestive acids as a baseline. No evidence suggests, however, that a Thing wouldn't be able to handle the acid, but I'll be nice and admit that we have no way of knowing at the moment, even though the evidence points against your argument. ;)
Not really they are both different acids. The acids you are talking about cant do what the Aliens did in the time that it did it. All acids are different in formula to each other. Some are organic, some are inorganic. Some are gasses unless they are correctly mixed with water.
I'm willing to agree that there isn't enough evidence either way.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
First of all, just because Aliens as a whole might be able to recover their numbers from having a nuke dropped on them, Aliens as a unit sure as hell aren't resistant to nukes.
They are at least very resistant to Radiations, except neutron and photon. The Alien in Alien survived being in a Nuclear jet turbine.
And I can (and have) survive having a blow torch point at my head. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be dead after a grenade went off in my face.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
Also, one could argue that a Thing would have an easier time of it infiltrating the military during a xeno outbreak. They're not looking for something that looks just like them, something that looks just like someone they've known their whole lives, knows how to act and what to say, etc... They're looking for a xeno. Nothing to worry about from your own men. ;)
Problem is in the the time during the Aliens all the soldiers vitals are watched and they have a head mounted camera. Some one would see the thing actually attack one of these people through the camera.
And? Why does the Thing have to mimic a grunt? And if it mimics them outside of a combat situation, who's to say those vitals you are monitoring aren't a Thing's?
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
The Thing hasn't died. Ever. Parts of it may have been destroyed but it continues to come back time and time again. And the key word in your sentence is tried. They have tried and failed to weaponize the Thing. They have tried and failed to create a poison to use against it. It survives all of the various stories set in 1982, appearing in Hunt the THING (set in 2011), where all you succeed in doing by the end of the campaign is encasing it (multiple full-bodied iterations, actually) in ice, not killing it.
Same is said about the Alien, humans tried weaponizing it and have failed. As for the Thing being frozen at the end of the game that is also not true. Blake used a light artillery weapon and explosive barrels to kill Carrier B4 the largest thing I have ever seen and it was immobile.
I'm not talking about the 2002 PS2/PC game starring Blake. I'm talking about
Hunt THE THING, an online game released by Entropia Universe
last October in conjuction with the new film. It is set in 2011, and features The Thing (which obviously survived Blake's exploits), and ends with you dropping a shit-ton of ice and snow on its alien ass. Try to keep up to date will you? ;)
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 12:43:01 AMQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
Jockey aliens are null and void at the moment. The "jockeys" as depicted in the comics can no longer be considered canon due to the fact that we now know that they are based off of a fossilized space suit that was mistakenly believed to be the outer appearance of the creature itself. Early trailers seem to indicate that the Jockeys actually look quite similar to humans. Until the finalized depiction of the jockeys is seen in Prometheus upon release, we can't take Jockey Aliens based on previous Jockey depictions into account.
The appearance can be different because the Jockeys are using different models of biomechanical suits. I do not think it is a suit anyway because the one in Alien has a mouth, what would be the point in having a suit with a mouth?
I didn't say I
agreed with it, I'm just citing what has been confirmed in interviews.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
And, as others have pointed out, you'd have to submerge a Thing in a molecular acid bath, and make sure that every cell was broken down to be absolutely sure.
As much as some of them pump out, acid, and taken into consideration how strong the acid is before they alter it, I would say it doesn't need to be submerged in acid.
And I would say you're wrong. Unless it got the entire Thing at once, parts of it can escape. And the Thing survives.
Quotethe Thing is shown to be stunned from cold weather environments.
It really hasn't. If The two films, two games, and a couple of the comics are showing off a 'stunned' Thing, I'd hate to see it when it's not. ;)
if both the alien and the thing are in an hostile planet, then neither the thing or he alien can succeed, since both require pre-existing life to spread. and there's more chance of small and simple creatures for the thing to infect than alien-infectable ones. also, the thing can take over every single biological kingdom, not just the animalia one.
and the queen mother is in her own planet and will not leave. she can't produce forever, otherwise there would be ONLY super aliens.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
Can you point me to where it is stated Aliens get this sort of knowledge from their hosts?
AvP:R The Predalien Queen skinned the Predators, took the cooks skull as a trophy, and allowed Wolf to take his mask off before they continued fighting.
AvP 3 The Predalien Warrior takes a guys skull and spine and runs away with it.
Alien: Resurrection Ripley inherited a lot of her members and skills she had before she died.
Aliens: Purge the Alien Ellie is programmable and knows everything it was meant to know, and is capable of learning.
Aliens vs Predator: Deadliest of the Species, The Snowflakes aka White Xenomorphs instantly knew how to, proficiently, us the technology around them including Laser Weaponry, The White King could also talk, I think the Warriors could too.
Aliens vs Predator: Deadliest of the Species, The Alien that comes from the main character knows not to hurt Big Mama, a Predator. Big Mama was friends with its host. It helped kill the White King.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
or is picking up brain waves. Neither is exactly a remarkable feat in the animal kingdom.
What animals pick up brain waves. I just looked it up on google and found nothing.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
If anything indicated it actually wanted to take over the Earth I might agree with you. It's only noticeable objectives seems to be to escape the planet, first on the ship, and then by building one of its own (twice). It then tries to survive, and get rid of people that are a threat to its survival.
Just because it hasn't mindlessly over-run the planet doesn't mean it's not as adaptable as an Alien.
If it where as adaptable, it would have developed a defense against the cold weather environments, or to poisons that Blake used on part of it or people he thought could be infected.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
I don't have any proof as far as CM is concerned because it's not out yet, a fact you seem to neglect about it and other titles. In Infestation the Aliens on Acheron are infested members of the UDP crew that were investigating the remains of the colony as well as the Derelict. Try playing the game before you site it again.
Perhaps you forgot the Jockey Xenomorph. Did the UDP bring a Jockey with them to get impregnated...? Wait.. No they didn't because I watched every bit of the game, I know they didn't bring a Jockey with them.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
Yes, there are contradictions in Res. The scientists state they haven't seen anything like the Aliens since Ripley's time,
He didn't say in Ripley's time. What that scientist is getting at is that how remarkable the creature is because other none xenomorph aliens they have encountered are nothing in comparison.
I should point out that there was a terrible event that cause a good chunk of the human history to be destroyed. Most people will not know what a Xenomorph is. Heck before that event people in the outer-rim areas had never heard of or scene a Xenomorph in Aliens: Wraith. The same doctor you are talking about in your above quote had never heard of W.Y. ether.
See most countries were completely whiped out by the Xenomorphs when they came to earth. So that would explain why colonies wouldn't even know what a Xenomorph is because the people that COULD tell them are dead. During most of the Aliens stories the Humans have not made a United Government yet.
Oh and if you were unlucky enough to find out Aliens existed the Americans and I am guessing later the USM would kill you right then and their.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
and the crew of the Betty has never even heard of them before.
Read my above information.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
Earth is a dump, but there's nothing to indicate it's from Aliens over-running the planet. Considering how quickly nations rebuilt after WWII, I find it hard to believe Earth's cities would still be so run down a couple hundred years after clearing the Xeno's off the damn planet.
Well while the American came back to the planet they did start rebuilding there parts of the country, although Alien hives did hamper there efforts for a long time. Why would the Americans have to rebuild France when not a single one of them are french. From what it sounds like excluding the colonies, their are no French people to rebuild France.
sharks can feel electricity in the water, electricity generated from the neural spasms of smaller fish.
QuoteHe didn't say in Ripley's time. What that scientist is getting at is that how remarkable the creature is because other none xenomorph aliens they have encountered are nothing in comparison.
That's not what he said at all. Your attempts to make everything fit are admirable if ultimately futile.
:laugh:
QuoteI should point out that there was a terrible event that cause a good chunk of the human history to be destroyed. Most people will not know what a Xenomorph is. Heck before that event people in the outer-rim areas had never heard of or scene a Xenomorph in Aliens: Wraith. The same doctor you are talking about in your above quote had never heard of W.Y. ether.
Yeah, but Wren had. And Call. So obviously that "good chunk" didn't include all the details surrouding Ellen Ripley and the Aliens.
Phew! That was lucky!!
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 03:34:10 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
Can you point me to where it is stated Aliens get this sort of knowledge from their hosts?
AvP:R The Predalien Queen skinned the Predators, took the cooks skull as a trophy, and allowed Wolf to take his mask off before they continued fighting.
AvP 3 The Predalien Warrior takes a guys skull and spine and runs away with it.
Alien: Resurrection Ripley inherited a lot of her members and skills she had before she died.
Aliens: Purge the Alien Ellie is programmable and knows everything it was meant to know, and is capable of learning.
Aliens vs Predator: Deadliest of the Species, The Snowflakes aka White Xenomorphs instantly knew how to, proficiently, us the technology around them including Laser Weaponry, The White King could also talk, I think the Warriors could too.
Aliens vs Predator: Deadliest of the Species, The Alien that comes from the main character knows not to hurt Big Mama, a Predator. Big Mama was friends with its host. It helped kill the White King.
Kain's son makes psycho-sexual displays, despite being non-sexual in and of itself. The runner displays traits of a beast, toying with it's food and such. It is arguable that the skinning and 'trophy taking' behaviors of the Predaliens are simply throwbacks to more primitive instincts of the Predator species.
Ripley 8 retaining Ripley's memories is arguably due more to the cloning process. Nothing indicates that the Aliens would have this knowledge. If anything, it's indicative that Ripley's baby, the Queen, would only have the memories of the queen it was cloned from, and nothing more.
As for the albino alien/predator/hybrid
things, they are explicitly stated to be a special case within the comics themselves.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
If anything indicated it actually wanted to take over the Earth I might agree with you. It's only noticeable objectives seems to be to escape the planet, first on the ship, and then by building one of its own (twice). It then tries to survive, and get rid of people that are a threat to its survival.
Just because it hasn't mindlessly over-run the planet doesn't mean it's not as adaptable as an Alien.
If it where as adaptable, it would have developed a defense against the cold weather environments, or to poisons that Blake used on part of it or people he thought could be infected.
Why would it need a defense against cold weather environments? It seems to operate just fine in them in the 2 films, 2 games, and 4 comic storylines that feature such environs.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
I don't have any proof as far as CM is concerned because it's not out yet, a fact you seem to neglect about it and other titles. In Infestation the Aliens on Acheron are infested members of the UDP crew that were investigating the remains of the colony as well as the Derelict. Try playing the game before you site it again.
Perhaps you forgot the Jockey Xenomorph. Did the UDP bring a Jockey with them to get impregnated...? Wait.. No they didn't because I watched every bit of the game, I know they didn't bring a Jockey with them.
I thought it was rather obvious that that was the original Jockey-Alien, woken up. Where else would it come from? Rather weak argument you've got there, if I do say.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 03:22:45 AM
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110915091625.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110915091625.htm)
Okay, let's try a different tact. The Aliens are, regardless of your definition of 'inorganic', at the very least cellular in nature. They are made up of cells. They have to be, other wise they wouldn't logically be able to absorb traits from the host creature. Non-cellular things (stones, glass, etc) don't have DNA. Aliens have DNA, and cells, and some biological trait allows them to take on some of ours as they gestate inside of us.
A Thing copies and mimics its prey on a cellular level, as seen in both films. Its cells take over and mimic our cells. Or a dog's cells. Or whatever's cells. It copies cells, and by extension DNA, and builds itself into a copy of the assimilated victim.
Aliens have cells. They can be infected.[/quote]
Except for the fact they are inorganic and have acid for blood, and can change fast to adapt through the use of bio-imperative.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
survive having a blow torch point at my head. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be dead after a grenade went off in my face.
Well they have shown them surviving the strongest nuclear weapons humans have, so I would say they are more resent than most.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
And? Why does the Thing have to mimic a grunt? And if it mimics them outside of a combat situation, who's to say those vitals you are monitoring aren't a Thing's?
It still would be very difficult for it to infiltrate a into society during the Aliens era just because it is hard to keep private from other people. Not to mention that if the Thing is gunning for a high ranking person so it could have access to Nukes it would have to deal with guards, it would have to deal with the security systems of that base because people in the Military unless they are a weekend warrior stay on base even if they are not fighting. Lots of people have to share barracks as well, there are to-many things that could go wrong for it to effectively take over a Colonial Marines base. That is effectively what it would have to do to get nuclear weapons.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
It really hasn't. If The two films, two games, and a couple of the comics are showing off a 'stunned' Thing, I'd hate to see it when it's not. ;)
Yes it has otherwise it would not have froze and went into hibernation. If the cold didn't bother it it would have assimilated all the cavemen and sabre toothed tigers.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 04:02:54 AM
Except for the fact they are inorganic and have acid for blood, and can change fast to adapt through the use of bio-imperative.
except that the thing copied inorganic(yet cellular) things before, and by absorbing the alien's skin, they would be immune to acid as well as the alien is.
It is clearly shown that the cold doesn't effect the thing, unless you going to tell us that you can also wake up and burst out of solid ice with no ill effects. The thing only froze because it was out there for a long time, it wouldn't freeze or hibernate instantly or within minutes. The thing has shown when threatened, it will purposely allow itself to freeze so something can find it and then it can assimilate it.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 03:33:27 AM
and the queen mother is in her own planet and will not leave. she can't produce forever, otherwise there would be ONLY super aliens.
Actually a Queen Mother can form anywhere. The Grant corp even wanted to make there own which would be disastrous. As for the Super Aliens I will point out she has been making them for a very very long time and hasn't stopped until she was brought to earth. Her replacement went on to make her own.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 03:40:49 AM
sharks can feel electricity in the water, electricity generated from the neural spasms of smaller fish.
That is not the same thing.
Quote from: SM on Feb 09, 2012, 03:41:05 AM
QuoteHe didn't say in Ripley's time. What that scientist is getting at is that how remarkable the creature is because other none xenomorph aliens they have encountered are nothing in comparison.
That's not what he said at all. Your attempts to make everything fit are admirable if ultimately futile.
:laugh:
You have misinterpreted the line again from that movie.
Quote from: SM on Feb 09, 2012, 03:41:05 AM
Yeah, but Wren had. And Call. So obviously that "good chunk" didn't include all the details surrouding Ellen Ripley and the Aliens.
Phew! That was lucky!!
Yeah and, the series is full of chance events, by freaking chance Ripley is found drifting through space right before the Aliens take over LV-426.
QuoteQuote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 04:02:54 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 03:22:45 AM
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110915091625.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110915091625.htm)
Okay, let's try a different tact. The Aliens are, regardless of your definition of 'inorganic', at the very least cellular in nature. They are made up of cells. They have to be, other wise they wouldn't logically be able to absorb traits from the host creature. Non-cellular things (stones, glass, etc) don't have DNA. Aliens have DNA, and cells, and some biological trait allows them to take on some of ours as they gestate inside of us.
A Thing copies and mimics its prey on a cellular level, as seen in both films. Its cells take over and mimic our cells. Or a dog's cells. Or whatever's cells. It copies cells, and by extension DNA, and builds itself into a copy of the assimilated victim.
Aliens have cells. They can be infected.
Except for the fact they are inorganic and have acid for blood, and can change fast to adapt through the use of bio-imperative.
No. It doesn't f%^&ing work that way. I'm getting kind of tired of your "lalala BIO-IMPERITIVE" magical catch-all response.
I have been rational. I have been logical. I have been scientific. You have not.
Tell me specifically where it states that a single Alien can force evolve itself quickly enough to stave off rapid assimilation on a cellular level so complete that sometimes
victims don't even know they've been wholly converted.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
survive having a blow torch point at my head. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be dead after a grenade went off in my face.
Well they have shown them surviving the strongest nuclear weapons humans have, so I would say they are more resilient than most.
Again, getting a little tired of arguments that amount to a kid on the playground yelling "I have a force field! your laser gun can't hit me!"
Show me where individual aliens have survived nuclear blasts. Cause I can point to Aliens, Alien Resurrection, Alien vs Predator, and Aliens vs Predator Requiem for examples in the films of instances where massive nuclear and nuclear level explosions have obliterated the shit out of Aliens.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
And? Why does the Thing have to mimic a grunt? And if it mimics them outside of a combat situation, who's to say those vitals you are monitoring aren't a Thing's?
It still would be very difficult for it to infiltrate a into society during the Aliens era just because it is hard to keep private from other people. Not to mention that if the Thing is gunning for a high ranking person so it could have access to Nukes it would have to deal with guards, it would have to deal with the security systems of that base because people in the Military unless they are a weekend warrior stay on base even if they are not fighting. Lots of people have to share barracks as well, there are to-many things that could go wrong for it to effectively take over a Colonial Marines base. That is effectively what it would have to do to get nuclear weapons.
no. a Thing is intelligent and patient. There are instances in the comics of it infecting a rodent and working it's way up from low level soldier to commanding officer of a protected military establishment via handshakes, brushes, etc via patience and cunning. It could totally get access to nukes if it wanted, Aliens era or no. Also, why should we assume a future timeframe? Aliens have shown up in present day stories, as well ancient earth, as has the Thing.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
It really hasn't. If The two films, two games, and a couple of the comics are showing off a 'stunned' Thing, I'd hate to see it when it's not. ;)
Yes it has otherwise it would not have froze and went into hibernation. If the cold didn't bother it it would have assimilated all the cavemen and sabre toothed tigers.
It wasn't in "hibernation", it was f*&%ing
frozen. With no ill effects either, mind you. It woke the f**k up and burst out of a g*dd@mned
block of solid ice. For the remainder of the two films it acted just fine in the cold. Same with the 2 games. And the multiple comics. The cold obviously doesn't affect it. Stop trying to play off that it does.
And seriously? Cavemen and sabre-tooth tigers? Did you miss the part where it crashed into an already frozen continent, in the middle of nowhere? I mean, do I really even need to go in to this one? ::)
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 03:52:58 AM
Ripley 8 retaining Ripley's memories is arguably due more to the cloning process. Nothing indicates that the Aliens would have this knowledge. If anything, it's indicative that Ripley's baby, the Queen, would only have the memories of the queen it was cloned from, and nothing more.
You have to understand even the top authorities concerning the Aliens barely know jack about them.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 03:52:58 AM
As for the albino alien/predator/hybrid things, they are explicitly stated to be a special case within the comics themselves.
They are quasi special cases, they reason it happened at all was because of tampering with the bio-imperative.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
Why would it need a defense against cold weather environments? It seems to operate just fine in them in the 2 films, 2 games, and 4 comic storylines that feature such environs.
It can't stay out there long without becoming frozen.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
Rather weak argument you've got there, if I do say.
There is nothing weak about it, you were trying to say that all the Aliens came from humans that were on LV-426 but they can't be because their is a space jockey alien there.
QuoteYou have misinterpreted the line again from that movie.
No, it's just you making stuff up again.
QuoteYeah and, the series is full of chance events, by freaking chance Ripley is found drifting through space right before the Aliens take over LV-426.
Chance was her being found. The Alien being found on LV-426 wasn't chance at all.
QuoteYou have to understand even the top authorities concerning the Aliens barely know jack about them.
So all those years of research in the comics amounted to nothing then?
keep it up, we're almost there.
QuoteThat is not the same thing.
THEN. WHAT. IT. IS?
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 04:25:34 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 03:52:58 AM
Ripley 8 retaining Ripley's memories is arguably due more to the cloning process. Nothing indicates that the Aliens would have this knowledge. If anything, it's indicative that Ripley's baby, the Queen, would only have the memories of the queen it was cloned from, and nothing more.
You have to understand even the top authorities concerning the Aliens barely know jack about them.
So all of those scientists studying them over the decades in the comics amounted to.... They barely know anything about them at all? What's to say that any of their suppositions were correct in the first place then? Like the Brain waves thing, for instance.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 03:52:58 AM
As for the albino alien/predator/hybrid things, they are explicitly stated to be a special case within the comics themselves.
They are quasi special cases, they reason it happened at all was because of tampering with the bio-imperative.
There's that bio-imperative card again. Was it natural tampering or deliberate genetic engineering?
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
Why would it need a defense against cold weather environments? It seems to operate just fine in them in the 2 films, 2 games, and 4 comic storylines that feature such environs.
It can't stay out there long without becoming frozen.
In that case, why do you think an Alien would fair any differently?
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
Rather weak argument you've got there, if I do say.
There is nothing weak about it, you were trying to say that all the Aliens came from humans that were on LV-426 but they can't be because their is a space jockey alien there.
ANd now you've resorted to nitpicking the phrasing of my responses.
Fine.
The Aliens on LV-426
ASIDE FROM THE JOCKEY ALIEN were from UDP personnel. The Jockey Alien is the one that burst out of the Jockey sometime before the start Alien.
Please, before we go any further, if we're talking Infestation - it's UPP.
Quote from: SM on Feb 09, 2012, 04:36:49 AM
Please, before we go any further, if we're talking Infestation - it's UPP.
My apologies. I feel somewhat embarrassed. :-X
Unless of course you were referring to these guys (http://www.udp.com.au/).
;)
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:24:27 AM
No. It doesn't f%^&ing work that way. I'm getting kind of tired of your "lalala BIO-IMPERITIVE" magical catch-all response.
You are getting tired of it because you can not find away around it.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:24:27 AM
I have been rational. I have been logical. I have been scientific. You have not.
Really, I have corrected your mistakes concerning science and biological chemistry.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:24:27 AM
Tell me specifically where it states that a single Alien can force evolve itself quickly enough to stave off rapid assimilation on a cellular level so complete that sometimes victims don't even know they've been wholly converted.
AvP:E The Queen can and will make the creatures under her evolve as needed using the Aliens vast genetic data base to counter any threat to the hive.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
Show me where individual aliens have survived nuclear blasts. Cause I can point to Aliens, Alien Resurrection, Alien vs Predator, and Aliens vs Predator Requiem for examples in the films of instances where massive nuclear and nuclear level explosions have obliterated the shit out of Aliens.
Aliens: Female Wars very last panel.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
a Thing is intelligent and patient. There are instances in the comics of it infecting a rodent and working it's way up from low level soldier to commanding officer of a protected military establishment via handshakes, brushes, etc via patience and cunning. It could totally get access to nukes if it wanted, Aliens era or no. Also, why should we assume a future timeframe? Aliens have shown up in present day stories, as well ancient earth, as has the Thing.
Because nuclear weapons are weaker in the past, and the Thing would have no way of even getting of earth to use nukes.
Now as I pointed out even with the nukes, the Aliens can surve said attack. Especially on plants they control, there is just way to many of them to kill and not enough nukes.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
It wasn't in "hibernation", it was f*&%ing
frozen. [/quote]
This is from Outpost # 31
QuoteIt is pretty obvious that the Thing did not just lay there wide-awake for 100,000 years, motionless. That would be enough to make anything go insane. That makes it slightly possible that the Thing went insane in the ice and attacked once it was thawed, but I'm not here to try to prove that. If you want to try, go ahead.
So, we can establish that the Thing went into some form of hibernation. Now, hibernation basically means going to sleep for a long time, and not waking up for any normal bodily functions or going out to consume something. So how could it stay alive for 100,000 years and not eat anything?
Let's look at bears. Bears pretty much eat a lot during the summer. Also, they eat a lot of grass and rocks to plug up their intestines. This is so they can reuse food that they ate. This works fine for bears, but could this be how the Thing survived? No. That is not possible. As far as we know, the last surviving Thing crawled out of the ship, walked a few meters, and then froze in the ice. It had no chance to eat anything, so unless it got prepared for hibernation before the trip, which also is very unlikely, this form of hibernation is impossible.
Now let's look at frogs. Frogs dig themselves into the ground before winter and hibernate there. When winter comes, they freeze solid in the ice and cease all body functions. Even the heart stops beating. This is made possible because amphibians are cold blooded, so the icy temperatures do not harm them as much. Another thing is that their blood generates a special antifreeze sugar to ensure the ice doesn't crack their skin and bleed them to death. Similar to human attempts at cryogenic freezing. However, even though frogs don't eat dirt and rocks, they still eat a lot before hibernation. So, while this method is more likely, let's try to think of non-terrestrial ways to accomplish this task.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
g*dd@mned block of solid ice.
Yeah I am going to stop you right there. You say anything stupid like that again with the world God in it or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, me menting the Bio-Imperative will be the thing I do that least annoys you.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
For the remainder of the two films it acted just fine in the cold. Same with the 2 games. And the multiple comics. The cold obviously doesn't affect it. Stop trying to play off that it does.
Yes it does effect it otherwise it would have never gone into hibernation, it would have gone someplace with creatures it could assimilate.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:24:27 AM
And seriously? Cavemen and sabre-tooth tigers? Did you miss the part where it crashed into an already frozen continent, in the middle of nowhere? I mean, do I really even need to go in to this one? ::)
Go for it.
can you even define what the bio-imperative is?
how the hell does it work?
Quote from: SM on Feb 09, 2012, 04:26:59 AM
No, it's just you making stuff up again.
And now you are self-projecting again.
Quote from: SM on Feb 09, 2012, 04:26:59 AM
Chance was her being found. The Alien being found on LV-426 wasn't chance at all.
Yeah it was by chance, because even if she were never found the colonists would have found the ship.
Quote from: SM on Feb 09, 2012, 04:26:59 AM
So all those years of research in the comics amounted to nothing then?
No but they do not have to full picture of the Alien, and what it is capable of.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 04:27:57 AM
keep it up, we're almost there.
QuoteThat is not the same thing.
THEN. WHAT. IT. IS?
Sharks see all the electoral impulses in there prey. Being able to see the brain waves would be like seeing what the person or thing is intending to do because those brain waves travel through neurons to the desired location.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:33:28 AM
sg1281084#msg1281084 date=1328761534]
They barely know anything about them at all? What's to say that any of their suppositions were correct in the first place then? Like the Brain waves thing, for instance.
Read my comment that I made in response to the similar question you have asked me.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:33:28 AM
They are quasi special cases, they reason it happened at all was because of tampering with the bio-imperative.
There's that bio-imperative card again. Was it natural tampering or deliberate genetic engineering?[/quote]
Deliberate engineering.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
Why would it need a defense against cold weather environments? It seems to operate just fine in them in the 2 films, 2 games, and 4 comic storylines that feature such environs.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 01:47:13 AM
It can't stay out there long without becoming frozen.
In that case, why do you think an Alien would fair any differently?[/quote]
They are designed and or will adapt to such conditions, the only way to even make an alien go into hibernation is to restrain it and freeze it.
This f**king thread.
Quote
The Queen Mother makes Super Aliens without need of a host.
Just wanted to say that this is nonsense unless you can provide some kind of citation. Aliens reproduce via hosts. It's... kind of their thing. Like, it's the point of the Alien as a creature. It incubates in a host, then pops out violently. That's why it was a big deal in Resurrection that the Newborn was created without a host. If Queen Mothers could make these so-called "Super Aliens" without a host, why wouldn't they do it non-stop? Why would they bother with hosts at all, ever?
QuoteYeah I am going to stop you right there. You say anything stupid like that again with the world God in it or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, me menting the Bio-Imperative will be the thing I do that least annoys you.
What is this I don't even
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 04:51:23 AM
can you even define what the bio-imperative is?
how the hell does it work?
I can not say 100% how it works, only that the Queen has access to a vast database of biological evolutionary responses that she can use to adapt the hive against the current threat. It also said the process is quick too. Regular Aliens without Queen can do it too but it looks like once a Queen shows it she has the finale word how they will evolve.
first off, let me get this rant out of here:
QuoteWHEN RIPLEY GOT SALVAGED, BURKE GOT INVOLVED IN HER CASE, HE READ HER FILES AND THE INFORMATION FROM THE INCIDENT INCLUDING THE PRESENCE OF A SHIP FULL OF INVALUABLE ALIENS. HE THEN PROCEEDED TO SEND THE ORDER TO EXPLORE THE LOCATION OF THE DERELICT, WHICH WAS FOUND TWO WEEKS AFTERWARDS. THE FINDING OF THE DERELICT BY THE COLONISTS IS DI-RECT-LY LINKED TO RIPLEY'S RETURN.
THE WHOLE PLANETOID WAS THROUGHFULLY SCANNED BEFORE THE COLONY WAS SET UP. THE DERELICT WAS NOT FOUND BEFORE AND IT WOULD BE HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE THE COLONIZATION EXTENDED THAT FAR, IF IT WOULD EVEN EXTEND AT ALL. IT WAS OBVIOUSLY CAMOUFLAGED BY ITS OWN NATURE, THE DAMAGE FROM QUAKES, AND THE GEOGRAPHY. THE BEACON WAS NO LONGER ACTIVE EITHER, POSSIBLY DUE TO THE NOSTROMO'S CREW INTERACTION OR THE DAMAGE SUSTAINED. THE CHANCE OF ANYONE FINDING THE DERELICT WOULD BE INFIMAL CONSIDERING THE AMOUNT OF TIME THE COLONY HAD BEEN THERE ALREADY; IF RIPLEY HADN'T SHOWED UP.
WE SOLVED THIS LONG AGO.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 05:07:16 AM
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 04:51:23 AM
can you even define what the bio-imperative is?
how the hell does it work?
I can not say 100% how it works, only that the Queen has access to a vast database of biological evolutionary responses that she can use to adapt the hive against the current threat. It also said the process is quick too. Regular Aliens without Queen can do it too but it looks like once a Queen shows it she has the finale word how they will evolve.
and how do you know that the thing is one of the threats those evolutionary responses work against?
infact, if a thing manages to snatch up an alien, wouldn't it have access to all bio-imperatives?
The problem with citing bio-imperative is that if you don't actually know how it works or what it's capable of other than a vague "vast database", you can't really cite it because there's nothing to cite. You don't have any evidence that this "bio-imperative" does specifically what you're saying it does, at best I guess you could cite some of the specific mutations shown in 'AvP: Extinction' or whatever. But just making up responses the Alien would have and then filing it under "bio-imperative"? That doesn't really count.
It'd be like if I said that cockroaches are very adaptive and can live just about anywhere (which is true) and then started making up abilities they'd have in order to survive certain hypothetical conditions.
QuoteTHE WHOLE PLANETOID WAS THROUGHFULLY SCANNED BEFORE THE COLONY WAS SET UP.
I'm actually not so sure on this, but you might have to clarify what you mean by "scanned". Like, an orbital satellite topography/mapping scan might not have picked up the Derelict (but I sort of doubt this - the thing is kind of huge and obvious). The beacon wasn't functioning anymore as you mentioned, but both the Jordens and the Nostromo crew visually spotted it from a reasonable distance away.
I don't think it would have taken centuries for the colonists to stumble across it, really I think it would have only been a matter of time. Some colonist gets in his space-buggy and goes out exploring because he's got nothing better to do or he's been nominated the official Hadley's Hope cartographer or whatever, and he gets lucky. It might have taken years, maybe decades, but I'm confident it
would have been found eventually. Especially if we take the approach that the Derelict was (potentially) destroyed in the Atmosphere Processor blast (and in the EU it survived the blast specifically because it was behind a mountain range), that means it couldn't have been
too far from the colony to begin with.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 09, 2012, 05:04:12 AM
Just wanted to say that this is nonsense unless you can provide some kind of citation. Aliens reproduce via hosts. It's... kind of their thing. Like, it's the point of the Alien as a creature. It incubates in a host, then pops out violently. That's why it was a big deal in Resurrection that the Newborn was created without a host. If Queen Mothers could make these so-called "Super Aliens" without a host, why wouldn't they do it non-stop? Why would they bother with hosts at all, ever?
Aliens: Female Wars
QuoteOh God-- I'M picking up movement from the five external clusters. Wilks-- it's coming from those pods! Flak! Get out of there--Now! ...There's something inside. Carvey! Those Power loaders are built out of alloyed steel, and they're tearing them apart like tissue paper! The Goddamn things must have evolved-- I'm getting motion sensor Readings from all the external pods--must be more of the things that attacked carvery.
Aliens: Genocide
QuoteThe material we want is in the large central sack. But these smaller pods are what we must keep out eyes on.
So ether she converts them or she grows them. I would go with the growing part for these reasons.
1)Any alien the Queen evolves, will cocoon and emerge from that not go inside the Queen Mother.
2)In Aliens: Infestation one of the Queens really did spawn warriors from it.
And to answer your other question, why would the Aliens bother to lay eggs if they can spawn aliens from the Queen Mother.
Well first reason is that the Queen Mother probabley doesn't even lay eggs from the looks of it. And secondly why would they stick with one method of reproduction when you can build a hive much quicker using both and or more.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 09, 2012, 05:04:12 AM
What is this I don't even
He used God in a cuss word. I will not stand for it.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 04:48:46 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:24:27 AM
No. It doesn't f%^&ing work that way. I'm getting kind of tired of your "lalala BIO-IMPERITIVE" magical catch-all response.
You are getting tired of it because you can not find away around it.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:24:27 AM
Tell me specifically where it states that a single Alien can force evolve itself quickly enough to stave off rapid assimilation on a cellular level so complete that sometimes victims don't even know they've been wholly converted.
AvP:E The Queen can and will make the creatures under her evolve as needed using the Aliens vast genetic data base to counter any threat to the hive.
I couldn't find a way around it because I couldn't figure out where it was from. I wasn't going to dismiss it wholesale because I was willing to admit that I might be wrong. But now I know that you are taking as gospel the in-game-explanation for a standard RTS mechanic of upgrading troops as something that can be applied to the rest of the EU. So obviously I can do the same across other mechanic explanations. Such as Preds uncloaking when using certain weapons, or "hive points" (oh wait). Or the perfectly biological and instinctual explanation for Predaliens taking trophies found in the same game, which makes me wonder why you needed to ask that question earlier. Stop cherry-picking. Other than that, I'm perfectly happy to admit I'm gonna need some time to gather material for my argument against this, as you seem to find applying video-game logic to non-video-games perfectly reasonable.
EDIT: I see that this has already been addressed for me by you
admitting that you don't actually know how this 'bio-imperative' even works. You've more or less admitted that even you are just using it as a catch-all "don't have an answer. claim the bio-imperative will handle it." response. As such, you can't actually back up that it works the way you claim it does. As seen in the game, it simply allows the queen to beef up her troops.
And if it
did work the way you claimed...
why would the Aliens ever lose a fight!?In any case, the bio-imperative as you seem to explain it is a
responsive measure. She adapts to the situation. So, by that logic, A Thing would have already needed to assimilate an Alien for the Queen to be able to know how to protect against it.
I could go on, but there's more to address here.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
Show me where individual aliens have survived nuclear blasts. Cause I can point to Aliens, Alien Resurrection, Alien vs Predator, and Aliens vs Predator Requiem for examples in the films of instances where massive nuclear and nuclear level explosions have obliterated the shit out of Aliens.
Aliens: Female Wars very last panel.
That's only evidence that at least one xeno survived,
not that all xenos are immune to the effects of a nuclear explosion going off in their faces, as you seem to be fond of implying.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
a Thing is intelligent and patient. There are instances in the comics of it infecting a rodent and working it's way up from low level soldier to commanding officer of a protected military establishment via handshakes, brushes, etc via patience and cunning. It could totally get access to nukes if it wanted, Aliens era or no. Also, why should we assume a future timeframe? Aliens have shown up in present day stories, as well ancient earth, as has the Thing.
Because nuclear weapons are weaker in the past, and the Thing would have no way of even getting of earth to use nukes.
Now as I pointed out even with the nukes, the Aliens can survive said attack. Especially on planets they control, there is just way to many of them to kill and not enough nukes.
I'm not trying to say that a nuke would automatically just kill all the xenos. I'm just saying that xenos, in and of themselves, can be killed by nukes.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PMIt wasn't in "hibernation", it was f*&%ing frozen.
This is from Outpost # 31
QuoteIt is pretty obvious that the Thing did not just lay there wide-awake for 100,000 years, motionless. That would be enough to make anything go insane. That makes it slightly possible that the Thing went insane in the ice and attacked once it was thawed, but I'm not here to try to prove that. If you want to try, go ahead.
So, we can establish that the Thing went into some form of hibernation. Now, hibernation basically means going to sleep for a long time, and not waking up for any normal bodily functions or going out to consume something. So how could it stay alive for 100,000 years and not eat anything?
Let's look at bears. Bears pretty much eat a lot during the summer. Also, they eat a lot of grass and rocks to plug up their intestines. This is so they can reuse food that they ate. This works fine for bears, but could this be how the Thing survived? No. That is not possible. As far as we know, the last surviving Thing crawled out of the ship, walked a few meters, and then froze in the ice. It had no chance to eat anything, so unless it got prepared for hibernation before the trip, which also is very unlikely, this form of hibernation is impossible.
Now let's look at frogs. Frogs dig themselves into the ground before winter and hibernate there. When winter comes, they freeze solid in the ice and cease all body functions. Even the heart stops beating. This is made possible because amphibians are cold blooded, so the icy temperatures do not harm them as much. Another thing is that their blood generates a special antifreeze sugar to ensure the ice doesn't crack their skin and bleed them to death. Similar to human attempts at cryogenic freezing. However, even though frogs don't eat dirt and rocks, they still eat a lot before hibernation. So, while this method is more likely, let's try to think of non-terrestrial ways to accomplish this task.
For that sense of 'hibernation', yes, it was hibernating. I was referring more to the seasonal hibernation that bears and such go through. What the Thing did was more akin to how certain species of frogs can be frozen solid during cold spells, thaw out later, and go about their business. More biologically supported chrio-stasis than hibernation.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
g*dd@mned block of solid ice.
Yeah I am going to stop you right there. You say anything stupid like that again with the world God in it or Jesus or the Holy Spirit, me mentioning the Bio-Imperative will be the thing I do that least annoys you.
I apologize for the language, but making threats to be
even more infuriating is hardly the right way to go about addressing your grievances.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
For the remainder of the two films it acted just fine in the cold. Same with the 2 games. And the multiple comics. The cold obviously doesn't affect it. Stop trying to play off that it does.
Yes it does effect it otherwise it would have never gone into hibernation, it would have gone someplace with creatures it could assimilate.
To that extant, yes, it was affected, but what you were intimating was that its abilities were somehow 'dulled' by the cold climate. This is patently not the case.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:24:27 AM
And seriously? Cavemen and sabre-tooth tigers? Did you miss the part where it crashed into an already frozen continent, in the middle of nowhere? I mean, do I really even need to go in to this one? ::)
Go for it.
Well first of all, by the time Antarctica was a frozen continent, which it was when the ship crashed, as stated in the films, it had gone through at least one extinction level event and did not support life. It was only relatively recently (geologically speaking) that the continent supported anything more advanced than microscopic organisms, and even then, most of those lived in the oceans around and under the coasts, not in the middle of the continent where the ship crashed.
So, no cavemen and sabre-tooth tigers. Sorry.
QuoteQuoteThere's that bio-imperative card again. Was it natural tampering or deliberate genetic engineering?
Deliberate engineering.
In that case, why are you using it as an example of a natural biological function of the Aliens?
QuoteHe used God in a cuss word. I will not stand for it.
Then the internet is perhaps not the place for you, as no one gives a shit. Though this does explain much.
QuoteAliens: Female Wars
If you insist on referring to EU, please get the names right. Aliens - The Female War.
It's not that difficult.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 05:16:49 AM
and how do you know that the thing is one of the threats those evolutionary responses work against?
The Alien killed just about all the life in the Galaxy and or universe before humans could travel though space. That is a lot of things for it to have killed, probability becomes very high that They fought and killed something like the Thing.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 05:16:49 AM
infact, if a thing manages to snatch up an alien, wouldn't it have access to all bio-imperatives?
If it was trying to perfectly imitate a Alien it would not be able to change if a Queen is in charge and running a hive.
If there was no Queen it could but so could the real Aliens as well. But that is only if the Thing can assimilate an Alien. Chances are with the Queen mother around that the Aliens will already be ready for the Things arrival.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 05:39:16 AMQuote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 09, 2012, 05:16:49 AM
infact, if a thing manages to snatch up an alien, wouldn't it have access to all bio-imperatives?
If it was trying to perfectly imitate a Alien it would not be able to change if a Queen is in charge and running a hive.
If there was no Queen it could but so could the real Aliens as well. But that is only if the Thing can assimilate an Alien. Chances are with the Queen mother around that the Aliens will already be ready for the Things arrival.
How do you figure? Why
wouldn't it gain the benefits of the bio-imperative after mimicking an Alien?
And as you've described it the bio-imperative is a reactionary measure. As such an unprepared Hive would still be subject to at least one Thing assimilation before the imperative could even begin to attempt to kick in to protect against it.
but the thing was said to have wiped out and absorbed much of the galaxy too. perhaps it's evolution was linked to the alien apocalypse refered to in the EU, making it either a particularly strong being that already survived aliens once, or it would most certainly be a new kind of being that the universe has never seen before, which the aliens would not have something to fight against. if they were both to exist in the same universe, either of them wouldn't exist if the other did. or perhaps "just about all life in the universe" is a very gross exaggeration and the Universe is just as infinite as it's supposed to be.
or if a portal between two universes opened, the same would happen. the thing would be a new unknown threat to the xenomorphs.
and a nuclear explosion is not something the alien would survive because it would violate what we see in the movie itself. why? because in a nuclear explosion even the tiniest fragment of debri is propulsed at speeds of thousands and thousands of kilometers per hour, and being the strong space materials that are much stronger than the lead buckshot hicks used(in and outside of the aliens mouth) which hurt them plenty, and the sheer pressure of the blast wave would put an amount of force on the xenos far greater than needed to crush their bodies(the APC's 1/4 weight). and that's not counting on the extreme, hotter-than-the-sun heat that would occur, which is much hotter than napalm, which can already fry them well.
even a rudimentary fision bomb could do that, what do you think a mayor, 40 megaton blast would do?
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 05:34:24 AM
I couldn't find a way around it because I couldn't figure out where it was from. I wasn't going to dismiss it wholesale because I was willing to admit that I might be wrong. But now I know that you are taking as gospel the in-game-explanation for a standard RTS mechanic of upgrading troops as something that can be applied to the rest of the EU. So obviously I can do the same across other mechanic explanations. Such as Preds uncloaking when using certain weapons, or "hive points" (oh wait). Or the perfectly biological and instinctual explanation for Predaliens taking trophies found in the same game, which makes me wonder why you needed to ask that question earlier. Stop cherry-picking. Other than that, I'm perfectly happy to admit I'm gonna need some time to gather material for my argument against this, as you seem to find applying video-game logic to non-video-games perfectly reasonable.
I am only using the lore not the game mechanics, also bio-imperatives are used really in all the aliens stories, but things that have talked about the bio-imperatives the most has been Aliens: Once in a life time, which Aliens had different blood, AvP:Arcade, which show Aliens evolving to deal with enemies.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 05:34:24 AM
And if it did work the way you claimed... why would the Aliens ever lose a fight!?
Superior tactics, really plot armor, but to counter that I will point out that the Aliens during full scale war were very successful in fighting enemies of the hive and taking lots of worlds. But not only did they take the worlds, they held them, even the main characters in Aliens: Xenogenesis were unable to take back the planet they were fighting on, and they were pretty broken plot wise.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 05:34:24 AM
In any case, the bio-imperative as you seem to explain it is a responsive measure. She adapts to the situation. So, by that logic, A Thing would have already needed to assimilate an Alien for the Queen to be able to know how to protect against it.
Not with the Queen Mother around, she directs the military actions of different hives around the galaxy/universe. She very likely will see the Thing coming before it arrives. But just encase she doesn't since she is directing the military actions of her children on multiple planets the odds that the Thing would end up on one of those and not Xenomorph prime is high. Once she see it attack the other hives, she can then use bio-imperative to evolve all her children.
We assumed the Alien infestation were sporadic, arbitrary-- that they bred wherever convenient, like some horrible cancers. We were wrong. The move with purpose. She's calling her children back to her."
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 08, 2012, 11:14:05 PM
Aliens: Female Wars very last panel.
That's only evidence that at least one xeno survived,
not that all xenos are immune to the effects of a nuclear explosion going off in their faces, as you seem to be fond of implying.[/quote]
No I am not implying that they all survived unscratched, I am just saying it really isn't the only way to be sure that they are all dead. Enough of them survived to hold parts of America for a couple years.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:24:27 AM
]Well first of all, by the time Antarctica was a frozen continent, which it was when the ship crashed, as stated in the films, it had gone through at least one extinction level event and did not support life. It was only relatively recently (geologically speaking) that the continent supported anything more advanced than microscopic organisms, and even then, most of those lived in the oceans around and under the coasts, not in the middle of the continent where the ship crashed.
So, no cavemen and sabre-tooth tigers. Sorry.
What you wrote above validates my position that Science is wrong and we will never completely find the truth about thing in the past and possible things in the future. The last thing I saw about the cavemen depicted them living in those areas.
Quotewhy are you using it as an example of a natural biological function of the Aliens?
Two reasons I used this example.
Because there configuration/evolution was unlocked, people have tried to mutate aliens with many many different viruses and tiny robots, and there efforts have ended in failure. From my understanding, the only way they can be manipulated is if the Bio-Imperative is manipulated, even if it was complete on accident, they would have to use products and harmonies (the equivalent) that already came from the Alien to manipulate it.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 09, 2012, 06:10:09 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 05:34:24 AM
I couldn't find a way around it because I couldn't figure out where it was from. I wasn't going to dismiss it wholesale because I was willing to admit that I might be wrong. But now I know that you are taking as gospel the in-game-explanation for a standard RTS mechanic of upgrading troops as something that can be applied to the rest of the EU. So obviously I can do the same across other mechanic explanations. Such as Preds uncloaking when using certain weapons, or "hive points" (oh wait). Or the perfectly biological and instinctual explanation for Predaliens taking trophies found in the same game, which makes me wonder why you needed to ask that question earlier. Stop cherry-picking. Other than that, I'm perfectly happy to admit I'm gonna need some time to gather material for my argument against this, as you seem to find applying video-game logic to non-video-games perfectly reasonable.
I am only using the lore not the game mechanics, also bio-imperatives are used really in all the aliens stories, but things that have talked about the bio-imperatives the most has been Aliens: Once in a life time, which Aliens had different blood, AvP:Arcade, which show Aliens evolving to deal with enemies.
I said the explanations for mechanics, not the mechanics themselves.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 05:34:24 AM
And if it did work the way you claimed... why would the Aliens ever lose a fight!?
Superior tactics, really plot armor, but to counter that I will point out that the Aliens during full scale war were very successful in fighting enemies of the hive and taking lots of worlds. But not only did they take the worlds, they held them, even the main characters in Aliens: Xenogenesis were unable to take back the planet they were fighting on, and they were pretty broken plot wise.
It still stands that if the bio-imperative were as magically awesome as you claim it is, they'd never lose a fight. Call it plot-armor all you like, they still lose fights all the time. Bio-imperative is not all powerful or infallible. I therefor surmise that it may fail against a Thing, just as it has failed against lesser beings.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 05:34:24 AM
In any case, the bio-imperative as you seem to explain it is a responsive measure. She adapts to the situation. So, by that logic, A Thing would have already needed to assimilate an Alien for the Queen to be able to know how to protect against it.
Not with the Queen Mother around, she directs the military actions of different hives around the galaxy/universe. She very likely will see the Thing coming before it arrives. But just encase she doesn't since she is directing the military actions of her children on multiple planets the odds that the Thing would end up on one of those and not Xenomorph prime is high. Once she see it attack the other hives, she can then use bio-imperative to evolve all her children.
This is so. I don't even. She'd likely see him coming!? Really? You're not even trying to come up with evidence anymore. This argument comes down to ifs and luck. If she's lucky, she'll see it coming. If the Thing's lucky, she won't. Could go either way. I'm going to point above to the fact that evidence shows the bio-imperative is not infallible and can fail; therefor it can fail against a Thing as well.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:24:27 AMWell first of all, by the time Antarctica was a frozen continent, which it was when the ship crashed, as stated in the films, it had gone through at least one extinction level event and did not support life. It was only relatively recently (geologically speaking) that the continent supported anything more advanced than microscopic organisms, and even then, most of those lived in the oceans around and under the coasts, not in the middle of the continent where the ship crashed.
So, no cavemen and sabre-tooth tigers. Sorry.
What you wrote above validates my position that Science is wrong and we will never completely find the truth about thing in the past and possible things in the future. The last thing I saw about the cavemen depicted them living in those areas.
While cavemen and other creatures contemporary to that time may have inhabited cold climates, they did, it seems, not inhabit Antarctica. I could of course be wrong, but this is what a quick perusal of the facts shows me. I suggest, for your own erudition, that you go read up on the subject. I find it quite fascinating myself and am always eager to introduce my interests to others.
btw, saying things like "Science is Wrong" in an argument where you've continually cited scientific evidence for your arguments is not really a good way to look credible.
QuoteQuotewhy are you using it as an example of a natural biological function of the Aliens?
Two reasons I used this example.
Because there configuration/evolution was unlocked, people have tried to mutate aliens with many many different viruses and tiny robots, and there efforts have ended in failure. From my understanding, the only way they can be manipulated is if the Bio-Imperative is manipulated, even if it was complete on accident, they would have to use products and harmonies (the equivalent) that already came from the Alien to manipulate it.
But the point still stands that it was genetic manipulation, not natural endeavor, that produced the Aliens capable of these things you have been using as baseline arguments for the abilities of the Alien species as a whole.
QuoteSo ether she converts them or she grows them. I would go with the growing part for these reasons.
1)Any alien the Queen evolves, will cocoon and emerge from that not go inside the Queen Mother.
2)In Aliens: Infestation one of the Queens really did spawn warriors from it.
Neither of those prove that the Queen Mother is spawning aliens from nothing without the use of hosts, and in Infestation we don't see Aliens appearing out of thin air during the final boss fight. The Aliens are just appearing from off-screen on the left where the player doesn't have access to, who knows where they're actually coming from.
Also I'm still waiting for a response on what these "Snowflakes" are and what they're from.
Also the big problem with continually saying "Aliens have wiped all life from the galaxy before" is that this is an entirely hypothetical situation between two creatures that haven't actually encountered each other because they're from different franchises. How could you even say...
QuoteThe Alien killed just about all the life in the Galaxy and or universe before humans could travel though space. That is a lot of things for it to have killed, probability becomes very high that They fought and killed something like the Thing.
...and be able to prove it? It's just as easy to say that the fact that they were able to wipe out all life unimpeded indicates that there
aren't Thing-like creatures it's encountered, because if there were then the Aliens would have lost.
I started the thread to discuss the facehugger's ability or lack thereof to impregnate The Thing. Can we please leave God out of the equation?
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 09, 2012, 03:20:26 PM
I started the thread to discuss the facehugger's ability or lack thereof to impregnate The Thing. Can we please leave God out of the equation?
I thought it was about any stage of xenomorph's encounter with the thing, i already said that none can stand a chance against the thing but i suppose if the thing imitates a person and purposefully allows itself to be facehugged, then it can assimilate it when it starts absorbing its cells during the embryo stage as the absorbed dna would not be (presumably) destroyed by the acid.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 09, 2012, 12:51:18 PM
Also I'm still waiting for a response on what these "Snowflakes" are and what they're from.
The "Snowflakes" as he keeps calling them are the genetically engineered white pred/human/alien hybrid things from AvP: Deadliest of the Species. His arguments using their abilities as a baseline for the Alien species as a whole are basically flawed due to the fact that the only reason they are so intelligent, can speak, use advanced technology, etc is due to genetic manipulation from outside sources in the first place.
Wasn't there only one of those anyway? It's been forever since I read that series (since it kind of sucked). Most of my A/P/AvP comics are in storage right now, when I can get back at them I'll likely re-read it, haha.
There were a few of them. But only one of them could talk, as far as I recall. It's been awhile since I read it as well. Where did I put those Omnibi? >__>
I too haven't read it a awhile but i think those white aliens were hybrids, they had human, alien and predator traits in them which may count for the intelligence and the ability to speak but as you guys said, its unnatural and only existed because of genetic tampering.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:21:48 PM
There were a few of them. But only one of them could talk, as far as I recall. It's been awhile since I read it as well. Where did I put those Omnibi? >__>
Bah, you whippersnappers with your Omnibi, back in the day we had individual issues
and we liked it.
that's the same comic that showed a female predator on a dress on a wild west town cantina in a virtual fantasy.
DotS is the worst comic Dark Horse has ever made.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 09, 2012, 06:03:06 PM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 04:21:48 PM
There were a few of them. But only one of them could talk, as far as I recall. It's been awhile since I read it as well. Where did I put those Omnibi? >__>
Bah, you whippersnappers with your Omnibi, back in the day we had individual issues and we liked it.
No, I just don't like Deadliest of the Species and didn't want to spend my money on it :D
It came with everything else that was in the omnibus :P
The sad part is it had potential, and then it just goes completely off the rails and never recovers.
It's notable as the only AvP comic to specifically reference the infestation of Earth, though.
Yeah I've got a couple of the singles, but it just went way way out into left field and I stopped picking it up after that.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 09, 2012, 03:44:57 PM
Quote from: DoomRulz on Feb 09, 2012, 03:20:26 PM
I started the thread to discuss the facehugger's ability or lack thereof to impregnate The Thing. Can we please leave God out of the equation?
I thought it was about any stage of xenomorph's encounter with the thing, i already said that none can stand a chance against the thing but i suppose if the thing imitates a person and purposefully allows itself to be facehugged, then it can assimilate it when it starts absorbing its cells during the embryo stage as the absorbed dna would not be (presumably) destroyed by the acid.
The facehugger was what I was thinking of when I started the thread, but the discussion has evolved nicely :)
You've got a different definition of "nicely" than I do. :-\
QuoteWasn't there only one of those anyway?
The white thing at the end? Yeah only one. The use of the plural "snowflakes" confused me too.
well it was evolving nicely, we went from how a facehugger could implant a thing which we agreed it can't unless it allowed itself and while it was in the embryo stage, it could possibly be assimilated then we covered that a thing with its many tentacles and appendages could kill an adult alien fairly easily.
Were would this crossover take place, LV-426?.
I have an easier time picturing a Thing vs. Predator crossover.
Quote from: Celtic on Feb 14, 2012, 02:47:30 AM
I have an easier time picturing a Thing vs. Predator crossover.
That would end even more quickly than an Alien vs Thing one.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 14, 2012, 03:30:37 AM
Quote from: Celtic on Feb 14, 2012, 02:47:30 AM
I have an easier time picturing a Thing vs. Predator crossover.
That would end even more quickly than an Alien vs Thing one.
As evidenced by the fact that that thread didn't get nearly this big :laugh:
Quote from: mastermoon on Feb 14, 2012, 01:56:36 AM
Were would this crossover take place, LV-426?.
AVP and both Thing movies were set in Antarctica, so that would seem to be the most likely place.
One thing I just remembered; The Thing couldn't assimilate Fuchs because he killed himself, right? Doesn't this suggest that The Thing can't assimilate nonliving organic material?
"That's only evidence that at least one xeno survived, not that all xenos are immune to the effects of a nuclear explosion going off in their faces, as you seem to be fond of implying.[/quote]
No I am not implying that they all survived unscratched, I am just saying it really isn't the only way to be sure that they are all dead. Enough of them survived to hold parts of America for a couple years."
They only nuked one mountain. ONE MOUNTAIN. It's not liked America as a whole.
Just to put this out there, didn't one of the guys say that there was still cellular activity in the burned corpses?
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 14, 2012, 04:18:13 AM
One thing I just remembered; The Thing couldn't assimilate Fuchs because he killed himself, right? Doesn't this suggest that The Thing can't assimilate nonliving organic material?
I think they can assimilate the dead if they absorb/digest it. When they eat people, said people are obviously killed but then the the thing shape-shifts into their form or grows a part of itself to look like their victim. fuchs burned himself, so the thing would not have been able to absorb him while he was on fire and i think time the flames stopped is when mac was nearby so the thing wouldn't have had time.
QuoteThey only nuked one mountain. ONE MOUNTAIN. It's not liked America as a whole.
Earth/ Female War shows nukes going off all over the world.
It also shows an ALien still alive in the final panel.
Like the Thing itself, this topic will not die. :laugh:
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 14, 2012, 07:27:12 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 14, 2012, 04:18:13 AM
One thing I just remembered; The Thing couldn't assimilate Fuchs because he killed himself, right? Doesn't this suggest that The Thing can't assimilate nonliving organic material?
I think they can assimilate the dead if they absorb/digest it. When they eat people, said people are obviously killed but then the the thing shape-shifts into their form or grows a part of itself to look like their victim. fuchs burned himself, so the thing would not have been able to absorb him while he was on fire and i think time the flames stopped is when mac was nearby so the thing wouldn't have had time.
Or maybe the thing doesn't liked cooked flesh ;D
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 15, 2012, 05:43:00 AM
Like the Thing itself, this topic will not die. :laugh:
It still lives on :laugh:
Maybe it can infect living beings by touch, and assimilate dead organic matter via the digestive method scene in 2011?
Quote from: SM on Feb 15, 2012, 05:24:09 AM
QuoteThey only nuked one mountain. ONE MOUNTAIN. It's not liked America as a whole.
Earth/ Female War shows nukes going off all over the world.
The Perry novel (and the "Aliens: The Alien" story from Dark Horse Presents) retconned that.
Quote from: Terx2 on Feb 15, 2012, 05:48:06 AM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 14, 2012, 07:27:12 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 14, 2012, 04:18:13 AM
One thing I just remembered; The Thing couldn't assimilate Fuchs because he killed himself, right? Doesn't this suggest that The Thing can't assimilate nonliving organic material?
I think they can assimilate the dead if they absorb/digest it. When they eat people, said people are obviously killed but then the the thing shape-shifts into their form or grows a part of itself to look like their victim. fuchs burned himself, so the thing would not have been able to absorb him while he was on fire and i think time the flames stopped is when mac was nearby so the thing wouldn't have had time.
Or maybe the thing doesn't liked cooked flesh ;D
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 15, 2012, 05:43:00 AM
Like the Thing itself, this topic will not die. :laugh:
It still lives on :laugh:
Killing the Thing ??
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnerdice.com%2Fjapaobizarro%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F11%2Fimmposibru.jpg&hash=da0bda1bd60840218cdc562d9a23b1a8925f8ca2)
Fun note: The new(ish) Dark Horse Thing Comic, The Northman Nightmare, shows that a Thing also crashed in Greenland. There's two of them out there. @__@
Also, just realized that The Thing would make a great Spy class for an updated AvP Team Fortress game.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 15, 2012, 08:22:37 AM
Quote from: SM on Feb 15, 2012, 05:24:09 AM
QuoteThey only nuked one mountain. ONE MOUNTAIN. It's not liked America as a whole.
Earth/ Female War shows nukes going off all over the world.
The Perry novel (and the "Aliens: The Alien" story from Dark Horse Presents) retconned that.
It's still in the revised Billie/ Wilks comics.
Besides what was there to retcon?
The (apparent) total destruction of the Earth because of nukes going off all over the place, versus only some of the nukes going off specifically at Orona's mountain.
There was no need for a retcon though since nukes going off all over the world didn't result in the Aliens destruction anyway - as shown in the last panel of the comic. There were still infestations for years, if not decades.
I'm just saying that subsequent sources went out of their way to say that nukes didn't go off all over the world (as previously thought) and that far fewer nukes than expected actually detonated.
But why did they bother?
I don't know, and ultimately I don't care. My point is that they went out of their way to do it.
Dark Horse + Fox != coherent continuity.
Oh well. :)
They should have given the rights to Ridley or Cameron, at least they would have made decent sequels and would have perhaps preserved and maintained continuity. Instead we have fox owning the rights to a franchise that they don't care about except when it comes to milking the profits.
HybridNewborn
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 06:32:17 AM
It still stands that if the bio-imperative were as magically awesome as you claim it is, they'd never lose a fight. Call it plot-armor all you like, they still lose fights all the time.
They have only shown them lose when they had small numbers, the only time I have seen the main characters take a planet from Xenomorphs, Xenomorphs that had taken over an ecosystem, was on earth, after nuking the hell out of it, and fighting them with on the ground for decades.
Other than Earth no planets have ever been shown being taken back from Xenomorphs that have a build up army and have taken control of the ecosystem on a planet. They didn't on Lv-1201, they didn't on LV-742, They didn't on Salazar VII, they didn't on Bunda Archey 377, they didn't ever take out Xenomorph Prime, and those are just planets that were in the story arcs. This has happened to a lot of planets.
As for the Thing it has had a 100% failure rate in all the mediums it has been in.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 06:32:17 AM
Bio-imperative is not all powerful or infallible. I therefor surmise that it may fail against a Thing, just as it has failed against lesser beings.
The Thing is going to have to come at the Entire species, it will not succeed, the Aliens will adapt with the use of the Bio-Imperative. Even if it could assimilate an Alien, which it can't because it is Inorganic, and has powerful acid for blood as a default, the aliens will have adapted to it and killed the Thing if they hadn't already because of the Queen Mother.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 06:32:17 AM
This is so. I don't even. She'd likely see him coming!? Really? You're not even trying to come up with evidence anymore. This argument comes down to ifs and luck. If she's lucky, she'll see it coming. If the Thing's lucky, she won't. Could go either way. I'm going to point above to the fact that evidence shows the bio-imperative is not infallible and can fail; therefor it can fail against a Thing as well.
I have already shown you evidence that the Queen Mother has Galactic awareness capabilities. She also has the ability to psychically influence hundreds, thousands, maybe even millions of people at one time from across the Galaxy. And once they are impregnated She has even more psychic control over her target, said targets are known as Infectoids.
The Thing is at high risk at being psychically controlled by the Queen Mother, and as is shown range is not an issue. And if the Thing decides its willingly going to let itself be impregnanted, so it can get genetic marital, the Queen Mother can then fully control that Thing turning it into an Infectoid.
Your statement that I made this argument come down to ifs and luck is not a fully correct statement, I am talking about chance and probability. The Probability that the Thing will first make contact on Xenomorph prime before other controlled Xenomorph planets is very low. Even IF the Thing did reach Xenomorph Prime first, there are so-many Aliens there that The Thing can not hope to win a fight there, not only that but the Queen Mother will be able to Quickly Evolve her brood with the use of the Bio-Imperative, and annihilate the Thing, or make it retreat and never come back.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 06:32:17 AM
While cavemen and other creatures contemporary to that time may have inhabited cold climates, they did, it seems, not inhabit Antarctica. I could of course be wrong, but this is what a quick perusal of the facts shows me. I suggest, for your own erudition, that you go read up on the subject. I find it quite fascinating myself and am always eager to introduce my interests to others.
I do not care really about Cavemen the only thing that interests me is herpetology.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 09, 2012, 06:32:17 AM
But the point still stands that it was genetic manipulation, not natural endeavor, that produced the Aliens capable of these things you have been using as baseline arguments for the abilities of the Alien species as a whole.
Genetic manipulations with compounds made from the Aliens themselves. They were designed to be as adaptable as they are written. As I have said before they are very similar to the Zoanoids when it comes to evolution.
Xenomrph
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 09, 2012, 12:51:18 PM
Also the big problem with continually saying "Aliens have wiped all life from the galaxy before" is that this is an entirely hypothetical situation between two creatures that haven't actually encountered each other because they're from different franchises. How could you even say...
...and be able to prove it? It's just as easy to say that the fact that they were able to wipe out all life unimpeded indicates that there aren't Thing-like creatures it's encountered, because if there were then the Aliens would have lost.
If there were things like the Thing in the Aliens mulitverse they would have died because of the same reason the Thing would die against the Xenomorph. Besides the fact that have an amazing immune system, acid for blood, are inorganic, they have the Bio-Imperative. Its somthing nothing will ever be able to get around when dealing with the Xenomorphs.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 09, 2012, 12:51:18 PM
Wasn't there only one of those anyway? It's been forever since I read that series (since it kind of sucked). Most of my A/P/AvP comics are in storage right now, when I can get back at them I'll likely re-read it, haha.
No there was alot more than just one.
SM
Quote from: SM on Feb 11, 2012, 10:35:35 AM
The white thing at the end? Yeah only one. The use of the plural "snowflakes" confused me too.
There was more than one...
predxeno
Quote from: predxeno on Feb 14, 2012, 04:18:13 AM
One thing I just remembered; The Thing couldn't assimilate Fuchs because he killed himself, right? Doesn't this suggest that The Thing can't assimilate nonliving organic material?
Glad you mentioned this, they also show that if some one dies right before the Thing can assimilate them, they are unable to be assimilated by the Thing. It was shown that the dead Norwegian they found with his neck sliced open had killed himself before he could be infected, the Thing was in the room with him when it happen. It never infected him. So obviously the Thing has some limitation on what it can assimilate and what state its target is in.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 09, 2012, 01:12:34 AM
QuoteAnd alot of those things are really organic because the carbon is the backbone molecule.
Iron is iron. Same with gold. And half the other things on the list. Carbon molecules don't factor into it.
No all the elements in the human body are organic because CARBON is the back bone for all the elements in the human body.
In the End The is going to have to come after every Alien in the Universe to win this fight, it can not succeed because of how vast the Alien population is, and because of the Bio-Imperative and the Queen Mother and her powerful psychic abilities. This is a lost War for the Thing, it will be out adapted and and out thought by the whole Xenomorph species. That or become a puppet for the Queen Mother because of her Psychic abilities.
I have not seen one person come up with a tactic or an ability that the Thing can do to win this fight, they wont ether because the Thing is out classed in an all out war against the whole Xenomorph species.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 22, 2012, 03:26:48 AM
They have only shown them lose when they had small numbers, the only time I have seen the main characters take a planet from Xenomorphs, Xenomorphs that had taken over an ecosystem, was on earth, after nuking the hell out of it, and fighting them with on the ground for decades.
They had a whole moon to themselves in
Labyrinth up until some
mold killed them all. So much for the almighty "bio-imperative".
QuoteAs for the Thing it has had a 100% failure rate in all the mediums it has been in.
The Aliens have been in six movies -- all of which ended in them all dying -- and Lord knows how many
dozen comics, novels, and games. Most of which end with the local Alien population
totally wiped out.
The Thing's been in one novella, two movies (I'm not counting the intergalactic vampire carrot from
The Thing From Another World), two comics, one video game, and a movie novel tie-in.
Also, for the record, The Thing's only explicitly dead at the end of ... what, the novella, and maybe the two comics, I've not read them. It's alive at the end of the prequel, obviously, and if you allow for EU, it's still alive at the end of the Carpenter movie in the form of MacReady -- see the video game. Or the TV edit that shows the dog fleeing the camp at the end of the movie.
QuoteNo all the elements in the human body are organic because CARBON is the back bone for all the elements in the human body.
You clearly have no idea how biology or chemistry works. At all. We are not fusion reactors. We cannot make elements out of carbon.
Carbon is the backbone of compounds,
groups of elements. Iron is an
element, not a
compound. It might be found
in compounds, but that doesn't suddenly make it organic. This is one of the many reasons why The Thing, The Prequel was stupid.
Beyond which, just because something has carbon in it, doesn't make it organic. Diamonds are nothing but carbon, but they're not considered organic.
QuoteIf there were things like the Thing in the Aliens mulitverse they would have died because of the same reason the Thing would die against the Xenomorph. Besides the fact that have an amazing immune system, acid for blood, are inorganic, they have the Bio-Imperative.
That's circular reasoning. You're saying that obviously the Alien would win because there's no Things present in the Alien universe, and if there were Things present then the Alien would obviously win. That's circular.
Their "amazing immune system" got defeated by mold in 'Labyrinth', as mentioned. The inorganic thing has already been addressed, and I just pointed out why "bio-imperative" isn't just some magic card you can play to cover any contingency.
QuoteThere was more than one...
There was? Didn't the final panel of the comic have Ash Parnall, the Predator and one white thing?
QuoteAlso, for the record, The Thing's only explicitly dead at the end of ... what, the novella, and maybe the two comics, I've not read them.
The Thing survived the original comic series because it showed up in Climate of Fear, where I think it was killed. But Mac tracked it to NZ in Eternal Vows and it survived.
"Glad you mentioned this, they also show that if some one dies right before the Thing can assimilate them, they are unable to be assimilated by the Thing. It was shown that the dead Norwegian they found with his neck sliced open had killed himself before he could be infected, the Thing was in the room with him when it happen. It never infected him. So obviously the Thing has some limitation on what it can assimilate and what state its target is in. "
..... :laugh:
The things can assimilate the dead, its shown in the prequel when it eats someone and and kills the guy with glasses.
Also i can't imagine someone just sitting in a chair and simply slicing their wrists and neck while the thing is in the room with them....so no, if the thing was in the room with him then he would not have been just sitting down while killing himself and the thing would have assimilated him while he was dying or dead.
For what it's worth, Colin's death (the guy who slits his own throat) is a deleted scene on the blu-ray for the prequel. I'm not sure if it's present on the regular DVD version.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 22, 2012, 04:06:17 PM
For what it's worth, Colin's death (the guy who slits his own throat) is a deleted scene on the blu-ray for the prequel. I'm not sure if it's present on the regular DVD version.
It is, i saw his body at the end.
one thing i don't get is where does this "massive population of aliens come from. One xeno per host is WAY f**king less than one organism per cell. The thing would have a whole continent before the aliens had a hive up and running.
Thats true. Xenomorphs offspring are implanted inside living hosts before erupting from their chests while The Thing can infect the entire Earth.
Exactly and should a thing-beast come up against a xeno, the former would easily win since it can't die from physical damage and it can shape-shift, thus having more weapons than the alien.
Adult Alien: Claws, tail, inner jar, acid.
The thing: Claws, tentacles, many mouths, shape-shifting, physically unkillable, infectious blood, able to attach itself to a living organism to merge with it, able to split itself into two, intelligence, able to use weapons like flamethrowers and guns...i could go on.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 22, 2012, 04:12:17 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 22, 2012, 04:06:17 PM
For what it's worth, Colin's death (the guy who slits his own throat) is a deleted scene on the blu-ray for the prequel. I'm not sure if it's present on the regular DVD version.
It is, i saw his body at the end.
No I mean they filmed the scene of him actually slitting his own throat and everything, you can watch the scene on the blu-ray but I don't know if that deleted scene is on the DVD.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 22, 2012, 05:54:59 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 22, 2012, 04:12:17 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 22, 2012, 04:06:17 PM
For what it's worth, Colin's death (the guy who slits his own throat) is a deleted scene on the blu-ray for the prequel. I'm not sure if it's present on the regular DVD version.
It is, i saw his body at the end.
No I mean they filmed the scene of him actually slitting his own throat and everything, you can watch the scene on the blu-ray but I don't know if that deleted scene is on the DVD.
I see, well i will try and find that scene.
Quote from: SM on Feb 22, 2012, 10:37:36 AM
QuoteThere was more than one...
There was? Didn't the final panel of the comic have Ash Parnall, the Predator and one white thing?
QuoteAlso, for the record, The Thing's only explicitly dead at the end of ... what, the novella, and maybe the two comics, I've not read them.
The Thing survived the original comic series because it showed up in Climate of Fear, where I think it was killed. But Mac tracked it to NZ in Eternal Vows and it survived.
As I've mentioned before, the
one Thing that is seen in the films
hasn't actually died yet.It's the same organism for the 2 films, 4 comic series, and 2 video games. The latest game,
Hunt THE THING, takes place in 2011, showing that the Thing survives
all of the other EU material, which is all set in and around 1982. At the end of Hunt THE THING, you
don't kill it, you just manage to trap it under a couple tons of ice.
The
new comic that Dark Horse released to tie in with the prequel,
The Thing: The Northman Nightmare, shows that a
second Thing crashed in Greenland during Nordic times.
There are Two of them now.
One was dangerous enough :laugh:
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 22, 2012, 06:17:08 PM
It's the same organism for the 2 films, 4 comic series, and 2 video games. The latest game, Hunt THE THING, takes place in 2011, showing that the Thing survives all of the other EU material, which is all set in and around 1982. At the end of Hunt THE THING, you don't kill it, you just manage to trap it under a couple tons of ice.
So The Thing's been shown to fail once -- in the original novella.
Heck, the Aliens got their asses beat six times straight.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2012, 10:04:52 PM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 22, 2012, 06:17:08 PM
It's the same organism for the 2 films, 4 comic series, and 2 video games. The latest game, Hunt THE THING, takes place in 2011, showing that the Thing survives all of the other EU material, which is all set in and around 1982. At the end of Hunt THE THING, you don't kill it, you just manage to trap it under a couple tons of ice.
So The Thing's been shown to fail once -- in the original novella.
Heck, the Aliens got their asses beat six times straight.
More than six times if you count the individual aliens that get killed.
WAY more than six times if you start counting the EU, haha.
QuoteThe new comic that Dark Horse released to tie in with the prequel, The Thing: The Northman Nightmare, shows that a second Thing crashed in Greenland during Nordic times. There are Two of them now.
Wow. How original. To say nothing of convenient. What, are their spaceships attracted to snow or soemthing?
It wasn't a very good comic.
Well the Thing transformations were drawn pretty well, there was one particular frame that was really, really disturbing.
But yeah on the whole it was pretty predictable and not too memorable. Then again it was also available to read online for free so it's hard to complain too loudly.
Quote from: SM on Feb 23, 2012, 01:50:02 AM
QuoteThe new comic that Dark Horse released to tie in with the prequel, The Thing: The Northman Nightmare, shows that a second Thing crashed in Greenland during Nordic times. There are Two of them now.
Wow. How original. To say nothing of convenient. What, are their spaceships attracted to snow or soemthing?
Possible theories are that the thing is not the pilot and that the pilot may have crashed on isolated places on purpose since the thing assimilated the crew and the pilot wanted to make sure it won't spread. The pilot would eventually be assimilate by the thing which gains its knowledge.
Good thing Earth was there eh? Crossing interstellar distances and crashing a dangerous lifeform on the only planet out of eight that's capable of supporting life...
indeed but maybe during the crash is when the pilot was being assimilated and just seconds before that it maybe programmed the ships computer to hit the isolated spots. just a theory anyway since the thing itself could have been the pilot.
From the Thing Prequel what did the Thing look like from the Ice Block...before it had contact with any humans?
All I saw were giant blades for arms.
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 23, 2012, 02:22:37 AM
From the Thing Prequel what did the Thing look like from the Ice Block...before it had contact with any humans?
All I saw were giant blades for arms.
It looked like a giant bug, it was like an arachnid or beetle as it had an exoskeleton and many legs.
Have a clear pic of it?
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 23, 2012, 02:28:39 AM
Have a clear pic of it?
I will see what i can do and i will have to snapshot it. i will post it tomorrow.
but here is one i just copied.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnSh7ju-Zk4Oc9OlhcUZbd95NhPW2YIL63b0I4s_R2Xl7IBHLv (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnSh7ju-Zk4Oc9OlhcUZbd95NhPW2YIL63b0I4s_R2Xl7IBHLv)
SO I am assuming the pilot was insectoid.
or the pilot's species were zoo-type collectors and thing was one creature they shouldn't have collected which absorbed the rest of collection and the insectoid was one of them but yes its possible that the pilot was insectoid but thing might not have had time to finish assimilating when the crash happened so what it currently looks like might be half thing and half pilot.
Was there ever really a pure form of the Thing?
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 23, 2012, 02:55:49 AM
Was there ever really a pure form of the Thing?
possibly, but it would had to have to be on its own planet.
one could say the the thing's cells are its true form. They are cells with tentacles on them.
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 23, 2012, 02:34:40 AM
SO I am assuming the pilot was insectoid.
The Pilot
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/401347_353775191300527_191901360821245_1402966_950713987_n.jpg)
A very nice design. I'm fond of the three eyes in a vertical column going down the center of its face.
It looks nothing like the Thing's form from the ice-block.
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 23, 2012, 02:55:49 AM
Was there ever really a pure form of the Thing?
According to the filmmakers, no.
There only ever was in the novella and the early concepts for the Carpenter movie. After that it was just an amorphous, well, thing.
Frankly that's how it should be, too.
Why did the pilot have a Thing on its ship in the first place??
In the very beginning in its life it would have probably been pure but it has obviously assimilates so much life-forms now that it just shape-shifts into them or half-them and something else.
The pilot may have been a collector or the thing hitch hiked or infected a crew member.
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 23, 2012, 05:33:58 PM
Why did the pilot have a Thing on its ship in the first place??
I've read both that it was a zoological ship, and the Pilot didn't realize that one of its specimen's was the Thing in disguise and that it was a prisoner transport ship and the Thing was an inmate being moved somewhere.
Either way, they were originally setting up to show a room full of chambers or 'pods' inside the ship, one of which would have been ripped open from the inside. They were also going to have the mummified dead and disfigured/thinged out bodies of the alien crew (all of the same race as the pilot) strewn about the ship as Kate explored it, hinting at what happened after the Thing got loose on the ship before the crash.
And then in 2040 we could have gotten the pre-prequel showing what happened on the spaceship leading to the crash! :D
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 23, 2012, 09:02:31 PM
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 23, 2012, 05:33:58 PM
Why did the pilot have a Thing on its ship in the first place??
I've read both that it was a zoological ship, and the Pilot didn't realize that one of its specimen's was the Thing in disguise and that it was a prisoner transport ship and the Thing was an inmate being moved somewhere.
Either way, they were originally setting up to show a room full of chambers or 'pods' inside the ship, one of which would have been ripped open from the inside. They were also going to have the mummified dead and disfigured/thinged out bodies of the alien crew (all of the same race as the pilot) strewn about the ship as Kate explored it, hinting at what happened after the Thing got loose on the ship before the crash.
That would have awnsered A TON of questions for me. I always wondered why if this thing was so advanced as to build a SPACE SHIP acted like an animal killing everything. The idea that it was being held on that ship by the intelligent aliens makes more sense to me. (although its just like Alien)./
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 23, 2012, 09:02:31 PM
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 23, 2012, 05:33:58 PM
Why did the pilot have a Thing on its ship in the first place??
I've read both that it was a zoological ship, and the Pilot didn't realize that one of its specimen's was the Thing in disguise and that it was a prisoner transport ship and the Thing was an inmate being moved somewhere.
Either way, they were originally setting up to show a room full of chambers or 'pods' inside the ship, one of which would have been ripped open from the inside. They were also going to have the mummified dead and disfigured/thinged out bodies of the alien crew (all of the same race as the pilot) strewn about the ship as Kate explored it, hinting at what happened after the Thing got loose on the ship before the crash.
The Thing was an inmate!? :o
Things have their own society?
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 24, 2012, 12:02:55 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 23, 2012, 09:02:31 PM
Quote from: The Runner on Feb 23, 2012, 05:33:58 PM
Why did the pilot have a Thing on its ship in the first place??
I've read both that it was a zoological ship, and the Pilot didn't realize that one of its specimen's was the Thing in disguise and that it was a prisoner transport ship and the Thing was an inmate being moved somewhere.
Either way, they were originally setting up to show a room full of chambers or 'pods' inside the ship, one of which would have been ripped open from the inside. They were also going to have the mummified dead and disfigured/thinged out bodies of the alien crew (all of the same race as the pilot) strewn about the ship as Kate explored it, hinting at what happened after the Thing got loose on the ship before the crash.
The Thing was an inmate!? :o
Things have their own society?
They are intelligent,
Or the lifeforms thay copied are.
After they've been assimilated, is there a difference?
The Thing could almost be thought of as an organic form of 'The Borg', although the Borg has the collective hive-mind and the Thing can split off into independent organisms at will.
Quote from: SM on Feb 24, 2012, 03:07:28 AM
Or the lifeforms thay copied are.
True its possible that they may have started out stupid or instinctual but the thing we see in the films has all the intelligence of what its assimilates so far, hence the fact that the Blair-thing built a ufo.
This reminds of the phantom where a monster living under a town started out as a small unintelligent creature before consuming near all lifeforms and gaining sentience and great intelligence.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 24, 2012, 06:02:06 PM
Quote from: SM on Feb 24, 2012, 03:07:28 AM
Or the lifeforms thay copied are.
True its possible that they may have started out stupid or instinctual but the thing we see in the films has all the intelligence of what its assimilates so far, hence the fact that the Blair-thing built a ufo.
This reminds of the phantom where a monster living under a town started out as a small unintelligent creature before consuming near all lifeforms and gaining sentience and great intelligence.
See: The Planarian Worm experiments, where researchers taught worms to run a maze. Subsequent batches of worms instantly knew how to run the maze when fed the ground up remains of the previous test worms. Until the results were eventually explained, it led to generations of people thinking that RNA held some form of 'memories' of the persons/animals it was extracted from. Put cannibalism in a whole new light.
Some really great stories came from that line of thinking, such as Moore's Swamp Thing story
The Anatomy Lesson.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 24, 2012, 06:44:17 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 24, 2012, 06:02:06 PM
Quote from: SM on Feb 24, 2012, 03:07:28 AM
Or the lifeforms thay copied are.
True its possible that they may have started out stupid or instinctual but the thing we see in the films has all the intelligence of what its assimilates so far, hence the fact that the Blair-thing built a ufo.
This reminds of the phantom where a monster living under a town started out as a small unintelligent creature before consuming near all lifeforms and gaining sentience and great intelligence.
See: The Planarian Worm experiments, where researchers taught worms to run a maze. Subsequent batches of worms instantly knew how to run the maze when fed the ground up remains of the previous test worms. Until the results were eventually explained, it led to generations of people thinking that RNA held some form of 'memories' of the persons/animals it was extracted from. Put cannibalism in a whole new light.
Some really great stories came from that line of thinking, such as Moore's Swamp Thing story The Anatomy Lesson.
Some tribes used to believe they would gain their enemies knowledge if they ate them. Cannibalism was used a lot.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2012, 10:13:05 AM
They have only shown them lose when they had small numbers, the only time I have seen the main characters take a planet from Xenomorphs, Xenomorphs that had taken over an ecosystem, was on earth, after nuking the hell out of it, and fighting them with on the ground for decades.
They had a whole moon to themselves in
Labyrinth up until some
mold killed them all. So much for the almighty "bio-imperative".[/quote]
Perhaps you missed the bit that Dr. Church tried to weaponize said mold to kill off the Alien species. It didn't work, it has no effect on them.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2012, 10:13:05 AM
The Aliens have been in six movies -- all of which ended in them all dying -- and Lord knows how many dozen comics, novels, and games.
No they haven't, the Alien didn't die in Alien, the Queen didn't die in Aliens, also Warriors on LV-426 didn't all die in the explosion, The Queen didn't die in AvP. Perhaps you should name every comic, game, and novel they have failed in, you will find it is not as many as you would like to think.
Just to name a few story's that end in an Alien victory, AvP:2, AvP(movie), AvP:Extinction (not including yellows), Aliens: Hive, Aliens: Stronghold, Aliens vs Predator: War, Aliens: Xenogenesis, Aliens: Purge, Aliens: Elder Gods, Aliens: Apocalypse, Aliens: Rogue, Aliens: Outbreak, Aliens: Nightmare Asylum. Most of the other story's are draws, the main villains being people themselves.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2012, 10:13:05 AM
Also, for the record, The Thing's only explicitly dead at the end of ... what, the novella, and maybe the two comics, I've not read them. It's alive at the end of the prequel, obviously, and if you allow for EU, it's still alive at the end of the Carpenter movie in the form of MacReady -- see the video game. Or the TV edit that shows the dog fleeing the camp at the end of the movie.
It matters not that it survived its main objectives are too A)Leave earth, B) Infect all of earths living organisms. It has failed both objectives.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2012, 10:13:05 AM
You clearly have no idea how biology or chemistry works. At all. We are not fusion reactors. We cannot make elements out of carbon.
Carbon is the backbone of compounds, groups of elements. Iron is an element, not a compound. It might be found in compounds, but that doesn't suddenly make it organic. This is one of the many reasons why The Thing, The Prequel was stupid.
http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/minerals/organic-and-inorganic-minerals.html (http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/minerals/organic-and-inorganic-minerals.html)
Everything in the Human body is organic.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2012, 10:13:05 AM
Beyond which, just because something has carbon in it, doesn't make it organic. Diamonds are nothing but carbon, but they're not considered organic.
That's nice, I have explained this already.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 22, 2012, 10:22:49 AM
Their "amazing immune system" got defeated by mold in 'Labyrinth', as mentioned. The inorganic thing has already been addressed, and I just pointed out why "bio-imperative" isn't just some magic card you can play to cover any contingency.
Not one time has the Thing assimilated anything Inorganic, ps Dr. Church tired to weaponize said mold, it didn't work on any other aliens. They adapted to it or as he noted when he was in the hive, the hive was not a normal hive.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 22, 2012, 04:22:42 PM
one thing i don't get is where does this "massive population of aliens come from. One xeno per host is WAY f**king less than one organism per cell. The thing would have a whole continent before the aliens had a hive up and running.
You forget that once they take over a planets ecosystem, they purposeless keep the system going so the aliens themselves can make more of themselves. That is why on Xenomorph prime there are so many of them that not on bit of land on the whole planet can be seen except the mountains, same deal with other planets they take control of.
So still I will point out that no one has come up with a way the Thing can defeat the Bio-Imperative, nor the Queen Mothers telepathic abilities. The reason that no one has is because theirs no way around them. The Alien was made to clean the galaxy/universe of life, they were very successful in there jobs. So successful there own creators society was pulverized by them.
Besides the Bio-Imperative the Thing is helpless against the Queen Mothers telepathic attacks on its mind, especially if it gets the bright idea to let itself be impregnated. At that point it becomes an infectoid. The Thing is out classed by the whole Xenomorph bioroid war machine. It's best bet at survival is just too leave the Xenomorphs alone or it will lose its own life.
QuotePerhaps you missed the bit that Dr. Church tried to weaponize said mold to kill off the Alien species. It didn't work, it has no effect on them.
This isn't true, he couldn't even get at the mold because his rescuers torched the hive and killed all the mold, and he's spent his entire career trying to recreate it without success.
The mold obviously worked - it's how he was able to escape from the hive. It was the entire point of his flashback.
QuoteNo they haven't, the Alien didn't die in Alien, the Queen didn't die in Aliens, also Warriors on LV-426 didn't all die in the explosion, The Queen didn't die in AvP.
The Alien was quite dead in the first movie, and the nuclear explosion in 'Aliens' killed all the Aliens that were present at the time. More Aliens show up later in other sources for various reasons, but as of 'Aliens' they got blown up.
QuoteIt matters not that it survived its main objectives are too A)Leave earth, B) Infect all of earths living organisms. It has failed both objectives.
The fact that it survived is pretty important when we're talking about who would win in a fight. The fact that the Thing has never actually been completely killed (whereas hundreds of Aliens have been killed across the movies, comics, games, etc) speaks volumes about which would win in a fight.
QuoteNot one time has the Thing assimilated anything Inorganic
That's nice, and we already explained why this doesn't matter when it comes to Aliens.
QuoteThat is why on Xenomorph prime there are so many of them that not on bit of land on the whole planet can be seen except the mountains, same deal with other planets they take control of.
I don't know where that description is from.
QuoteSo still I will point out that no one has come up with a way the Thing can defeat the Bio-Imperative, nor the Queen Mothers telepathic abilities.
No we already addressed that, because "Bio-Imperative" isn't a catch-all you can play to cover every contingency. Also the telepathic abilities part has been addressed.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 26, 2012, 07:46:40 AM
It matters not that it survived its main objectives are too A)Leave earth, B) Infect all of earths living organisms. It has failed both objectives.
I'd just like to point out that it's sole objective has been to leave, which it fails to complete because it keeps getting interrupted violently whenever it's trying to take off/finish constructing its ship.
The main characters across various media try to kill it relentlessly because,
if it actually cared enough to, it could assimilate all life on the damn planet by the end of the week.
BUT, that has
never been shown to be its objective.
It only wants to leave. For the most part it minds its own business when we're not actively harassing it. The films would be a lot shorter if they just let it go and stopped harassing it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:06:01 AM
This isn't true, he couldn't even get at the mold because his rescuers torched the hive and killed all the mold, and he's spent his entire career trying to recreate it without success.
The mold obviously worked - it's how he was able to escape from the hive. It was the entire point of his flashback.
That not true, he himself said it was a common mold.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:06:01 AM
The Alien was quite dead in the first movie, and the nuclear explosion in 'Aliens' killed all the Aliens that were present at the time. More Aliens show up later in other sources for various reasons, but as of 'Aliens' they got blown up.
The Alien didn't die in the first movie do you even have prof it died in the first encounter. So your saying hudson could survive the explosion on LV-426 but the Aliens can't even though they are more durable than him... right...
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:06:01 AM
The fact that it survived is pretty important when we're talking about who would win in a fight.
It does not matter if it survives, if has never completed it primary objectives, I will point out that the enemies it faced were not anywhere nearly well equipped or advanced as the enemies that the Alien has faced AND EXTERMINATED.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:06:01 AM
The fact that the Thing has never actually been completely killed (whereas hundreds of Aliens have been killed across the movies, comics, games, etc) speaks volumes about which would win in a fight.
The main difference between the Alien and the humans the Thing fights is that the Aliens have the ability to QUICKLY evolve to face the current threat of the hive. They the Alien, have a vast database of evolutionary responses at there command that can and will kill the thing. Just one simple change the hive can make is the use of mutagenic-acids for blood and weaponry, not only will the this acid eat the thing BUT the parts that survive will be riddled with tumors, this will hinder the Things assimilation and mimicking capabilities.
But they can evolve to do even worse things than just using mutangenic-acids.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:06:01 AM
That's nice, and we already explained why this doesn't matter when it comes to Aliens.
No your answer was that there are inorganic elements in the human body that the thing assimilates, but this is not true, every bit of the human body and other organisms on earth have nothing but organic elements in it.
AGAIN I will point out the Thing has no defense against the Queen Mothers telepathic influence, it will become a puppet for the Xenomorphs, that and bio-imperative in the end will doom the thing. It only hope of survival is not to deal with Xenomorphs.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 26, 2012, 08:21:41 AMSo your saying hudson could survive the explosion on LV-426 but the Aliens can't even though they are more durable than him... right...
Why are you under the impression that Hudson survived?
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 08:17:08 AM
if it actually cared enough to[/u][/i], it could assimilate all life on the damn planet by the end of the week. BUT, that has never been shown to be its objective. It only wants to leave. For the most part it minds its own business when we're not actively harassing it. The films would be a lot shorter if they just let it go and stopped harassing it.
Not by blairs calculations it would take a little over three years. The Aliens took over earth in a much much shorter amount of time.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 08:24:49 AM
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 26, 2012, 08:21:41 AMSo your saying hudson could survive the explosion on LV-426 but the Aliens can't even though they are more durable than him... right...
Why are you under the impression that Hudson survived?
That is what everyone is saying, you find him alive in the game, Aliens:Colonial Marines.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 26, 2012, 08:27:07 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 08:17:08 AM
if it actually cared enough to[/u][/i], it could assimilate all life on the damn planet by the end of the week. BUT, that has never been shown to be its objective. It only wants to leave. For the most part it minds its own business when we're not actively harassing it. The films would be a lot shorter if they just let it go and stopped harassing it.
Not by blairs calculations it would take a little over three years. The Aliens took over earth in a much much shorter amount of time.
It's called hyperbole. And let's be fair here. How long would it take a single Alien by itself to take over the planet if it were so inclined? Or, how long would it take a hive-worth of Things?
Quote
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 08:24:49 AM
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 26, 2012, 08:21:41 AMSo your saying hudson could survive the explosion on LV-426 but the Aliens can't even though they are more durable than him... right...
Why are you under the impression that Hudson survived?
That is what everyone is saying, you find him alive in the game, Aliens:Colonial Marines.
The developers have stated in interviews that, among other things, we will find out what happened to various persons after they were dragged off in Aliens,
but, as the developers put it, they "won't be magically bringing anybody back to life."
Hudson's dead.
QuoteThat not true, he himself said it was a common mold.
That's not true, unless you'd like to provide a quote that indicates otherwise...?
QuoteIt does not matter if it survives, if has never completed it primary objectives, I will point out that the enemies it faced were not anywhere nearly well equipped or advanced as the enemies that the Alien has faced AND EXTERMINATED.
Except for all the movies where the Aliens got beaten and killed, I guess?
If the Thing's primary objective is "kill Aliens" and the Thing itself cannot be killed, it's only a matter of time before the Thing wins.
QuoteJust one simple change the hive can make is the use of mutagenic-acids for blood and weaponry, not only will the this acid eat the thing BUT the parts that survive will be riddled with tumors, this will hinder the Things assimilation and mimicking capabilities.
But they can evolve to do even worse things than just using mutangenic-acids.
Now you're just making stuff up. How do you even know that sort of stuff would affect the Thing in any way?
QuoteAGAIN I will point out the Thing has no defense against the Queen Mothers telepathic influence, it will become a puppet for the Xenomorphs, that and bio-imperative in the end will doom the thing. It only hope of survival is not to deal with Xenomorphs.
You keep saying this, and they've both already been refuted. I don't get why you can't grasp this. ???
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 26, 2012, 07:46:40 AM
Perhaps you missed the bit that Dr. Church tried to weaponize said mold to kill off the Alien species. It didn't work, it has no effect on them.
As explained later, he was never able to recreate it. When he said "common mold", he meant that mold itself is common -- not this type. Given every Alien in the hive was killed by it, it'd be impossible for them to develop a resistance to it, because no immune specimens lived to pass on their genes.
QuoteNo they haven't, the Alien didn't die in Alien,
Yes it did.
Quotethe Queen didn't die in Aliens,
Not on-camera.
Quotealso Warriors on LV-426 didn't all die in the explosion,
Yes they did, f**k the games. Otherwise there were really also bright-pink Aliens running around at the same time Ripley was going through the hive.
QuoteIt matters not that it survived
Yeah it does. Your entire argument was "Well the Thing always dies, so it's not as good". If it always live, the basis of your argument is destroyed.
Quoteits main objectives are too A)Leave earth, B) Infect all of earths living organisms. It has failed both objectives.
No, its main objective is to survive. Which it did. Repeatedly.
QuoteYes they did, f**k the games. Otherwise there were really also bright-pink Aliens running around at the same time Ripley was going through the hive.
Even if you include the games it's clear they all died in 'Aliens'. The ones that show up in later games like AvPClassic and Colonial Marines are from other sources, they're not survivors from 'Aliens'.
And Infestation.
And Extermination.
But not Earth War.
Gentlemen, what we got here is a person who is a trope codifier of the trope which i won't name but the type of it is Toxic genius.
"The Highbrow: A fan who is convinced that he is so much more sophisticated and intelligent than those around him. Tends to come in three varieties:
The Toxic Genius: A fan who seems to believe that the fact that people are disagreeing with his strongly held opinions is not because they have different but equally strongly-held opinions, but because he's just so much smarter than they are that they can't see that he's correct. The operative term is usually "you just don't get it" (i.e. "you're much stupider than I am and thus can't see why this show is amazing / dreadful"), couched in as patronising and condescending a fashion as possible. This variant can also be found engaging in slightly pretentious (and often wildly off-mark) analysis of the show. Many times the Toxic Genius is often shown as being a single-character-interpreter blind to Alternate Character Interpretation, believing that only their interpretation of the character is correct. (Seen especially in character-heavy works like books, film, and some video games) They will also not allow anyone to view the character any differently. Abridged version"
Now, no offence intended with this but this describes your actions here perfectly kingangel, it seems you are not looking at this from other points of view and insanely believe that xenomorphs are the strongest creatures ever and your only evidence is this so called "bio-imperative" which if it exists does not work, they didn't develop an immunity to bullets did they? or plasma bolts, or sharp, bladed weapons...or humans and predators.
We have all looked at this from different angles but you have not.
Its no stretch to say a shape-shifting thing can take out a xenomorph. A thing can alter itself into weapons and pretty much anything it wants.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 08:31:32 AM
It's called hyperbole. And let's be fair here. How long would it take a single Alien by itself to take over the planet if it were so inclined? Or, how long would it take a hive-worth of Things?
It depends on the Xenomorph, what it came from, and how it has evolved.
For the Thing it flat out depends on what planet it is on and what is facing, if its Xenomorphs the Thing is screwed. If its on a very hostile planet, environmental wise, it is screwed.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
That's not true, unless you'd like to provide a quote that indicates otherwise...?
QuoteTrue, they were not NORMAL, healthy Aliens: but they had been brought low by nothing more than a COMMON MOLD.
page 236 third panel.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
Except for all the movies where the Aliens got beaten and killed, I guess?
Out of the five movies that have classic Xenomorphs in them, they survived and or killed all the main characters in 3.
Hey just a thought, you like to point out that more Xenomorphs have died than Things. Well you see The Thing is cells when it is assimilating something or pretending to be somthing, well the Human body is made up of
60-90 trillion cells. It is very safe to say that more Things have died in one scene in the Thing than all the Aliens that have been showing being killed in all the games, books, graphic novels, and movies combined.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
If the Thing's primary objective is "kill Aliens" and the Thing itself cannot be killed, it's only a matter of time before the Thing wins.
With bio-imperative the aliens can and will adapt to use more acid based weapons and or anti-thing enzymes. Also the Thing NEEDS to assimilate something to gain more biomass, if it is on a planet that the Xenomorphs control it is only a matter of time before there is no biomass to consume, and it will be killed easily or go into hiding. Do not forget the less mass a Thing has the less intelligent it it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
You keep saying this, and they've both already been refuted. I don't get why you can't grasp this. ???
No you have not refuted the Aliens ability to use Bio-Imperative, nor the Queen Mothers telepathic capabilities. If you have you can re-post them after this comment. But you wont because the Thing has no resistance to telepathic attacks or mentally being controlled by the Queen Mother.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 08:59:51 AM
As explained later, he was never able to recreate it. When he said "common mold", he meant that mold itself is common -- not this type. Given every Alien in the hive was killed by it, it'd be impossible for them to develop a resistance to it, because no immune specimens lived to pass on their genes.
Your comment
QuoteWhen he said "common mold", he meant that mold itself is common -- not this type.
is pretty screwy.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 08:59:51 AM
Yes it did.
Source...? you are coming pretty close to breaking the lore for the Aliens. There is no reason for the Alien to have died, they live in space, and when they have nothing to eat or do they go into hibernation. Unless you have prof that the Alien drifted into a star, black hole, planet, deathstar, it didn't die.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 08:59:51 AM
Not on-camera.
Source...?
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 08:59:51 AM
Yes they did, f**k the games. Otherwise there were really also bright-pink Aliens running around at the same time Ripley was going through the hive.
If you are ignoring canon material you will forfeit. Anyway we know that the Pilot Alien survived the explosion of the base, we no the explosion reached the pilots ship because how badly damaged it was.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 08:59:51 AM
Yeah it does. Your entire argument was "Well the Thing always dies, so it's not as good". If it always live, the basis of your argument is destroyed.
No my argument is a counter argument to your argument that the Alien always dies and or loses, they have casualties of War but they win a lot of times, the Thing on the other hand has cells survive but it has not ever completed its primary objectives. Nor faced an enemy that can evolve to start spiting gobs of dangerous acids at it.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 08:59:51 AM
No, its main objective is to survive. Which it did. Repeatedly.
It's primary objective is to leave earth. It has been stopped every time. If the Thing had to deal with Humans like Colonial Marines and or Predators that are using there weapons of War, The Thing can be made permanently dead. To some degree it would not be as easy nor a sure thing like the Aliens victory over the Thing but they both have a much greater threat level and chance at killing the thing unlike the people the Thing is dealing with.
I will also point out Predators avoid going to war or hunting Aliens that have come from hosts other than human and or have large hives, just because of how dangerous Xenomorphs are.
In the end though the Thing can not win against the Alien. Both Bio-Imperative and the Queen Mother and her telepathic capabilities will be the Things downfall. It has no defense against being mental controlled, nor can it deal with an enemy that can evolve its fighting capabilities to counter a current threat.
No one hear as found a counter for the above abilities, this topic would be better off being changed to "The Thing vs Colonial Marines, or The Thing vs Yautja, because at least the outcome will not be as certain.
Quotethe Thing has no resistance to telepathic attacks or mentally being controlled by the Queen Mother.
How would you know, have you asked a thing?
You just can't see anything beyond your love for xenomorphs. I suppose you reckon a xenomorph can beat up godzilla too.
The thing is trying to survive first escape second and it succeeds in the first part immensely.
The Thing has never died, an Alien has.
Quotepage 236 third panel.
That doesn't say anything about him trying to use that mold against other Aliens and it not working. That's the part I was looking for a citation on.
QuoteOut of the five movies that have classic Xenomorphs in them, they survived and or killed all the main characters in 3.
Hey just a thought, you like to point out that more Xenomorphs have died than Things. Well you see The Thing is cells when it is assimilating something or pretending to be somthing, well the Human body is made up of 60-90 trillion cells. It is very safe to say that more Things have died in one scene in the Thing than all the Aliens that have been showing being killed in all the games, books, graphic novels, and movies combined.
Which three? The Aliens were soundly beaten in every movie they've shown up in.
And the "cells" thing is semantics at best, especially when any one Thing cell can compromise an entire organism.
That's like saying that if a human being gets stung to death by a swarm of bees and he manages to kill 100 bees in the process, that the human "won" because he had a higher body-count. The human is still dead and the bee hive is still standing, the fact that 100 bees died is really irrelevant.
QuoteWith bio-imperative the aliens can and will adapt to use more acid based weapons and or anti-thing enzymes.
How do you know this, other than pure speculation? Also what does "anti-thing enzymes" even mean? We're still talking about a totally hypothetical situation - we don't know that the Alien has ever encountered anything remotely like the Thing.
QuoteBut you wont because the Thing has no resistance to telepathic attacks or mentally being controlled by the Queen Mother.
How do you know this? Again, it's still a hypothetical situation.
You're the one making the claim, by all means back it up. :)
QuoteSource...? you are coming pretty close to breaking the lore for the Aliens. There is no reason for the Alien to have died, they live in space, and when they have nothing to eat or do they go into hibernation. Unless you have prof that the Alien drifted into a star, black hole, planet, deathstar, it didn't die.
It climbed into an engine and got lit on fire. In the script, novelization, comic book adaptation, and
especially the earlier draft of the script, it's very clear that the Alien in 'Alien' was killed.
QuoteNor faced an enemy that can evolve to start spiting gobs of dangerous acids at it.
How do you know it hasn't?
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 26, 2012, 09:04:04 PM
Quotethe Thing has no resistance to telepathic attacks or mentally being controlled by the Queen Mother.
How would you know, have you asked a thing?
You just can't see anything beyond your love for xenomorphs. I suppose you reckon a xenomorph can beat up godzilla too.
The thing is trying to survive first escape second and it succeeds in the first part immensely.
The Thing has never died, an Alien has.
Now there is a cross over....Godzilla vs The Thing...
Literally any creature vs The Thing (Aliens included, no matter how badly KingAngel wishes to believe otherwise) would end with The Thing winning.
Having said that, The Terminator vs The Thing would be halfway interesting, if the Thing cells managed to infect the cloned skin on the outside of a Terminator endoskeleton. That would be pretty freaky, seeing it totally Thing out and contort the flesh, but the metal endoskeleton stays intact and has no idea what's going on.
What about Godzilla and his G-cells?? Dont you think he could fight off the infection of the Thing due to his cells?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:13:14 PM
Literally any creature vs The Thing (Aliens included, no matter how badly KingAngel wishes to believe otherwise) would end with The Thing winning.
Having said that, The Terminator vs The Thing would be halfway interesting, if the Thing cells managed to infect the cloned skin on the outside of a Terminator endoskeleton. That would be pretty freaky, seeing it totally Thing out and contort the flesh, but the metal endoskeleton stays intact and has no idea what's going on.
Well the terminator would win in a way since its a cyborg and inorganic but unless it had the proper equipment, then it can't kill the thing, Godzilla perhaps could due to the radiation blast....if that kills cells ( i ain't an expert) but he could perhaps be infected unless his cells are irradiated as well which could effect the thing.
well regardless that is irrelevant due to being half-off topic. :laugh:
Betcha the Thing could not stand against a Shoggoth or the Great Old Ones, hah.
Or a fire spitting Dragon from long range, as previously noted -- I also mentioned Leviathan. Most boring fight ever, unless you have a microscope. :laugh:
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 26, 2012, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:13:14 PM
Literally any creature vs The Thing (Aliens included, no matter how badly KingAngel wishes to believe otherwise) would end with The Thing winning.
Having said that, The Terminator vs The Thing would be halfway interesting, if the Thing cells managed to infect the cloned skin on the outside of a Terminator endoskeleton. That would be pretty freaky, seeing it totally Thing out and contort the flesh, but the metal endoskeleton stays intact and has no idea what's going on.
Well the terminator would win in a way since its a cyborg and inorganic but unless it had the proper equipment, then it can't kill the thing, Godzilla perhaps could due to the radiation blast....if that kills cells ( i ain't an expert) but he could perhaps be infected unless his cells are irradiated as well which could effect the thing.
well regardless that is irrelevant due to being half-off topic. :laugh:
Off topic yes but interesting which anything is interesting when you include Godzilla...
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Feb 26, 2012, 09:14:25 PM
What about Godzilla and his G-cells?? Dont you think he could fight off the infection of the Thing due to his cells?
The Thing's whole gimmick is that it imitates other cells perfectly - it would likely find a way to copy those, and then Godzilla's body wouldn't realize it's infected by anything foreign because the Thing would no longer seem like a foreign entity to the Thing's body.
Then again I'm not at all versed in Godzilla "lore". Like I have no idea what "G-cells" are, haha. Maybe he would have a defense against it, I don't know.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 26, 2012, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:13:14 PM
Literally any creature vs The Thing (Aliens included, no matter how badly KingAngel wishes to believe otherwise) would end with The Thing winning.
Having said that, The Terminator vs The Thing would be halfway interesting, if the Thing cells managed to infect the cloned skin on the outside of a Terminator endoskeleton. That would be pretty freaky, seeing it totally Thing out and contort the flesh, but the metal endoskeleton stays intact and has no idea what's going on.
Well the terminator would win in a way since its a cyborg and inorganic but unless it had the proper equipment, then it can't kill the thing, Godzilla perhaps could due to the radiation blast....if that kills cells ( i ain't an expert) but he could perhaps be infected unless his cells are irradiated as well which could effect the thing.
well regardless that is irrelevant due to being half-off topic. :laugh:
Well yeah the Thing wouldn't be able to do anything about the endoskeleton, but imagine it infecting the cloned outer flesh and that flesh just going totally crazy and trying to kill the endoskeleton (somehow).
Or even better, a Thing-monster vs the T-1000. It would be a slap-fight -- the Thing can't destroy the T-1000 by itself through shapeshifting, and "stabbing weapons" are amazingly ineffective against the Thing. :P
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Feb 26, 2012, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 26, 2012, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:13:14 PM
Literally any creature vs The Thing (Aliens included, no matter how badly KingAngel wishes to believe otherwise) would end with The Thing winning.
Having said that, The Terminator vs The Thing would be halfway interesting, if the Thing cells managed to infect the cloned skin on the outside of a Terminator endoskeleton. That would be pretty freaky, seeing it totally Thing out and contort the flesh, but the metal endoskeleton stays intact and has no idea what's going on.
Well the terminator would win in a way since its a cyborg and inorganic but unless it had the proper equipment, then it can't kill the thing, Godzilla perhaps could due to the radiation blast....if that kills cells ( i ain't an expert) but he could perhaps be infected unless his cells are irradiated as well which could effect the thing.
well regardless that is irrelevant due to being half-off topic. :laugh:
Off topic yes but interesting which anything is interesting when you include Godzilla...
Half-off topic since the thing is still involved :) and i remember now, high doses of nuclear radiation will kill cells so i reckon godzilla's radiation blast power could possibly kill a thing
I am now picturing the Palmer Thing and the T-1000 slapping each other whilst saying 'bitch' and 'whore'.
Thank you.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:21:21 PM
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Feb 26, 2012, 09:14:25 PM
What about Godzilla and his G-cells?? Dont you think he could fight off the infection of the Thing due to his cells?
The Thing's whole gimmick is that it imitates other cells perfectly - it would likely find a way to copy those, and then Godzilla's body wouldn't realize it's infected by anything foreign because the Thing would no longer seem like a foreign entity to the Thing's body.
Then again I'm not at all versed in Godzilla "lore". Like I have no idea what "G-cells" are, haha. Maybe he would have a defense against it, I don't know.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 26, 2012, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:13:14 PM
Literally any creature vs The Thing (Aliens included, no matter how badly KingAngel wishes to believe otherwise) would end with The Thing winning.
Having said that, The Terminator vs The Thing would be halfway interesting, if the Thing cells managed to infect the cloned skin on the outside of a Terminator endoskeleton. That would be pretty freaky, seeing it totally Thing out and contort the flesh, but the metal endoskeleton stays intact and has no idea what's going on.
Well the terminator would win in a way since its a cyborg and inorganic but unless it had the proper equipment, then it can't kill the thing, Godzilla perhaps could due to the radiation blast....if that kills cells ( i ain't an expert) but he could perhaps be infected unless his cells are irradiated as well which could effect the thing.
well regardless that is irrelevant due to being half-off topic. :laugh:
Well yeah the Thing wouldn't be able to do anything about the endoskeleton, but imagine it infecting the cloned outer flesh and that flesh just going totally crazy and trying to kill the endoskeleton (somehow).
Or even better, a Thing-monster vs the T-1000. It would be a slap-fight -- the Thing can't destroy the T-1000 by itself through shapeshifting, and "stabbing weapons" are amazingly ineffective against the Thing. :P
T-1000 vs the thing? they would be fighting forever :laugh:
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 26, 2012, 08:50:47 PM
Source...? you are coming pretty close to breaking the lore for the Aliens. There is no reason for the Alien to have died, they live in space, and when they have nothing to eat or do they go into hibernation. Unless you have prof that the Alien drifted into a star, black hole, planet, deathstar, it didn't die.
The people who made it said it died. It explodes in the script. If you take EU into account, then you take scripts.
QuoteIt's primary objective is to leave earth.
No. It isn't. It never has been. You are pulling this right out your ass. It's never been seen attempting to leave the planet -- it only wants to survive. This is explained in explicit detail in both movies, in the original story, in the novelisation. It wasn't building a ship to leave Earth, it was building a ship to leave the
frozen, near-uninhabited wasteland it found itself in.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 26, 2012, 09:23:17 PM
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Feb 26, 2012, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 26, 2012, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:13:14 PM
Literally any creature vs The Thing (Aliens included, no matter how badly KingAngel wishes to believe otherwise) would end with The Thing winning.
Having said that, The Terminator vs The Thing would be halfway interesting, if the Thing cells managed to infect the cloned skin on the outside of a Terminator endoskeleton. That would be pretty freaky, seeing it totally Thing out and contort the flesh, but the metal endoskeleton stays intact and has no idea what's going on.
Well the terminator would win in a way since its a cyborg and inorganic but unless it had the proper equipment, then it can't kill the thing, Godzilla perhaps could due to the radiation blast....if that kills cells ( i ain't an expert) but he could perhaps be infected unless his cells are irradiated as well which could effect the thing.
well regardless that is irrelevant due to being half-off topic. :laugh:
Off topic yes but interesting which anything is interesting when you include Godzilla...
Half-off topic since the thing is still involved :) and i remember now, high doses of nuclear radiation will kill cells so i reckon godzilla's radiation blast power could possibly kill a thing
Off topic yes but interesting which anything is interesting when you include Godzilla...
Redundancy is one hell of a thing.
you cant prove the bio imperative can defeat the thing. thats your opinion, not a fact.
th aliens have never, ever met anything like the thing. even if they could adapt(eventually,not immediately),the thing would already be acid proof and stronger than the average alien, and in more numbers.
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Feb 26, 2012, 09:33:46 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 26, 2012, 09:23:17 PM
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Feb 26, 2012, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 26, 2012, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:13:14 PM
Literally any creature vs The Thing (Aliens included, no matter how badly KingAngel wishes to believe otherwise) would end with The Thing winning.
Having said that, The Terminator vs The Thing would be halfway interesting, if the Thing cells managed to infect the cloned skin on the outside of a Terminator endoskeleton. That would be pretty freaky, seeing it totally Thing out and contort the flesh, but the metal endoskeleton stays intact and has no idea what's going on.
Well the terminator would win in a way since its a cyborg and inorganic but unless it had the proper equipment, then it can't kill the thing, Godzilla perhaps could due to the radiation blast....if that kills cells ( i ain't an expert) but he could perhaps be infected unless his cells are irradiated as well which could effect the thing.
well regardless that is irrelevant due to being half-off topic. :laugh:
Off topic yes but interesting which anything is interesting when you include Godzilla...
Half-off topic since the thing is still involved :) and i remember now, high doses of nuclear radiation will kill cells so i reckon godzilla's radiation blast power could possibly kill a thing
Off topic yes but interesting which anything is interesting when you include Godzilla...
Half-off topic since the thing is still involved.
I too can repeat myself but its better to actually say something different. ::) :laugh:
Why did you say it twice?
I didn't, it was the echo!
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 26, 2012, 09:43:47 PM
Why did you say it twice?
I didn't, it was the echo!
At least billy got that joke.
This tread should be changed to The thing vs everything.......... ;)
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 09:29:09 PM
QuoteIt's primary objective is to leave earth.
No. It isn't. It never has been. You are pulling this right out your ass. It's never been seen attempting to leave the planet -- it only wants to survive. This is explained in explicit detail in both movies, in the original story, in the novelisation. It wasn't building a ship to leave Earth, it was building a ship to leave the frozen, near-uninhabited wasteland it found itself in.
In the prequel it attempts to use the ship to leave the planet. In John Carpenter's film it attempts to build a craft but is interrupted. In one of the comics it assimilates a crewmember on a tanker and
is being taken back to civilization, but still attempts to build a space ship on the boat and leave the planet. In another of the comics it has escaped to Central America and takes over a military base for the purpose of using the base's resources to build a space ship. I think it's pretty clear that it's trying to get off the planet, not just out of the snow.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 26, 2012, 08:50:47 PM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 08:31:32 AM
It's called hyperbole. And let's be fair here. How long would it take a single Alien by itself to take over the planet if it were so inclined? Or, how long would it take a hive-worth of Things?
It depends on the Xenomorph, what it came from, and how it has evolved.
For the Thing it flat out depends on what planet it is on and what is facing, if its Xenomorphs the Thing is screwed. If its on a very hostile planet, environmental wise, it is screwed.
How do you figure? You keep saying that it's screwed against Xenos and we keep refuting all your arguments. And seeing as humans haven't been able to kill it over the course of 30 years, I don't really think a 'hostile' environment is going to be much of a problem.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
Except for all the movies where the Aliens got beaten and killed, I guess?
Out of the five movies that have classic Xenomorphs in them, they survived and or killed all the main characters in 3.
Hey just a thought, you like to point out that more Xenomorphs have died than Things. Well you see The Thing is cells when it is assimilating something or pretending to be something, well the Human body is made up of 60-90 trillion cells. It is very safe to say that more Things have died in one scene in the Thing than all the Aliens that have been showing being killed in all the games, books, graphic novels, and movies combined.
of the
six films featuring the Aliens, they die in all of them. Individuals may survive in some of them, arguably Alien, Aliens, and Alien vs Predator, which is debatable in and of itself,
but, as whole, they get wiped out time and time again.
The Thing is a gestalt entity. It's a completely different argument that I feel don't really feel like getting into as to whether separated parts of the Thing count as separate creatures or not. Either way, you're just playing semantics at this point, trying to bolster your argument in the face of failing tactics.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
If the Thing's primary objective is "kill Aliens" and the Thing itself cannot be killed, it's only a matter of time before the Thing wins.
With bio-imperative the aliens can and will adapt to use more acid based weapons and or anti-thing enzymes. Also the Thing NEEDS to assimilate something to gain more biomass, if it is on a planet that the Xenomorphs control it is only a matter of time before there is no biomass to consume, and it will be killed easily or go into hiding. Do not forget the less mass a Thing has the less intelligent it it.
No. We've already shown that it doesn't work that way. Try something new.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
You keep saying this, and they've both already been refuted. I don't get why you can't grasp this. ???
No you have not refuted the Aliens ability to use Bio-Imperative, nor the Queen Mothers telepathic capabilities. If you have you can re-post them after this comment. But you wont because the Thing has no resistance to telepathic attacks or mentally being controlled by the Queen Mother.
How would you know? Most sci-fi stories that feature both psi and gestalt entities stipulate that the mind-benders have a hard time dealing with a gestalt being as they don't have a centralized mind to control.
Quote from: chrisr232007 on Feb 26, 2012, 09:45:59 PM
This tread should be changed to The thing vs everything.......... ;)
I agree. Combine it with my "How Would a Predator Hunt The Thing" topic and we've got all our bases covered. :)
This tread should be changed to The thing vs everything..........
I agree. Combine it with my "How Would a Predator Hunt The Thing" topic and we've got all our bases covered
Yes, becasue I would like to see what people would think about putting it up against Wolverine or Superman and so on.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:07:52 PM
That doesn't say anything about him trying to use that mold against other Aliens and it not working. That's the part I was looking for a citation on.
QuoteOriginally, I tried to develop a viral bomb to eliminate aliens forever. But my experiments yield unexpected, miraculous results. Results?! You've heard rumors, no doubt: numerous metabiotics, self-replication brain tissue, acquired infrasenory abilites, the so-called "time serum"...
These are his only results from his experiments with this weapon. It was not successful otherwise it would be used in the stories after.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:07:52 PM
Which three? The Aliens were soundly beaten in every movie they've shown up in.
Alien, Aliens, AvP. Anyone that crosses path with the Aliens is dead.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:07:52 PM
And the "cells" thing is semantics at best, especially when any one Thing cell can compromise an entire organism.
The fact of the matter still stands, every Thing cell is a Thing organism, beyond trillions of them have died in all the Thing mediums.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:07:52 PM
That's like saying that if a human being gets stung to death by a swarm of bees and he manages to kill 100 bees in the process, that the human "won" because he had a higher body-count. The human is still dead and the bee hive is still standing, the fact that 100 bees died is really irrelevant.
It is not the same thing. For starters each Thing cell is sentient.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:07:52 PM
How do you know this, other than pure speculation? Also what does "anti-thing enzymes" even mean? We're still talking about a totally hypothetical situation - we don't know that the Alien has ever encountered anything remotely like the Thing.
Because acids are pretty deadly stuff and if any super acids, let alone the stuff classics use as standard, got on the Thing it would turn it into hamburger, sap nutrients right out of it, and or dissolve it lickty split.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:07:52 PM
How do you know this? Again, it's still a hypothetical situation.
You're the one making the claim, by all means back it up. :)
Ok every human, yautja the queen mother wanted to control mentally she did. Even from the other end of the galaxy, she even controlled humans that were so badly decayed that had the appearance of ghouls/zombies. The Thing thinks, has emotion, feels, it is no different than any other creature the alien has faced in those respects.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:07:52 PM
It climbed into an engine and got lit on fire. In the script, novelization, comic book adaptation, and especially the earlier draft of the script, it's very clear that the Alien in 'Alien' was killed.
All of those do not fit what was seen in the movie.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:07:52 PM
Nor faced an enemy that can evolve to start spiting gobs of dangerous acids at it.
How do you know it hasn't?[/quote]
It would ether be dead or retreated from said creature.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 09:13:14 PM
Literally any creature vs The Thing (Aliens included, no matter how badly KingAngel wishes to believe otherwise) would end with The Thing winning.
The Xenomorph is one creature the Thing wont be able to beat. The reason being.
1)Bio-Imperative
2)Acid blood as a default
3)Inorganic not one time has the Thing assimilated a being that was inorganic.
4)Queen Mother
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 09:29:09 PM
The people who made it said it died. It explodes in the script. If you take EU into account, then you take scripts.
I want to see videos and or writen prof they said it died.
As for the script it is non canon compared to what is seen in the film.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 09:29:09 PMNo. It isn't. It never has been. You are pulling this right out your ass. It's never been seen attempting to leave the planet -- it only wants to survive. This is explained in explicit detail in both movies, in the original story, in the novelisation. It wasn't building a ship to leave Earth, it was building a ship to leave the frozen, near-uninhabited wasteland it found itself in.
Ok Team Thing, get your act together, now you all are coming up with random baloney, first your teammates tell me that its main goal is to get of earth, and that it built a spaceship to get off earth in the MMORPG, but is constantly buried in snow preventing this, now you say this never happened.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 26, 2012, 10:03:00 PM
As for the script it is non canon compared to what is seen in the film.
And yet video games, by people completely unrelated to production, are?
The Alien is said to burst as it tumbles away. We see the Alien for only a few seconds after it gets hit by the engines -- it happens just after that, about when we see Ripley's close-up. This is also in the novel.
QuoteOk Team Thing, get your act together, now you all are coming up with random baloney, first your teammates tell me that its main goal is to get of earth, and that it built a spaceship to get off earth in the MMORPG, but is constantly buried in snow preventing this, now you say this never happened.
Anyone who says the Thing's main goal is to leave Earth hasn't been paying attention.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 10:07:02 PM
QuoteOk Team Thing, get your act together, now you all are coming up with random baloney, first your teammates tell me that its main goal is to get of earth, and that it built a spaceship to get off earth in the MMORPG, but is constantly buried in snow preventing this, now you say this never happened.
Anyone who says the Thing's main goal is to leave Earth hasn't been paying attention.
While it obviously tries to survive first and foremost, it has definitely been trying to leave the planet as a secondary objective. In the prequel it attempts to use the ship to leave the planet. In John Carpenter's film it attempts to build a craft but is interrupted. In one of the comics it assimilates a crewmember on a tanker and is being taken back to civilization, but still attempts to build a space ship on the boat and leave the planet. In another of the comics it has escaped to Central America and takes over a military base for the purpose of using the base's resources to build a space ship. I think it's pretty clear that it's trying to get off the planet, not just out of the snow, otherwise what would be the point of continuing trying to make space-ships after it got out of Antarctica?
A predator has beaten a xenomorph in a hand to hand fight, a thing could easily do the same. The things cells just go on instinct, the thing itself never got killed as the original infecter of the first movie escaped through the ceiling to infect others.
so tell us, where was this bio imperative when they got killed by humans and predators?
In the first movie, the alien is clearly seen getting burnt.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 10:10:34 PM
While it obviously tries to survive first and foremost, it has definitely been trying to leave the planet as a secondary objective. In the prequel it attempts to use the ship to leave the planet. In John Carpenter's film it attempts to build a craft but is interrupted. In one of the comics it assimilates a crewmember on a tanker and is being taken back to civilization, but still attempts to build a space ship on the boat and leave the planet. In another of the comics it has escaped to Central America and takes over a military base for the purpose of using the base's resources to build a space ship. I think it's pretty clear that it's trying to get off the planet, not just out of the snow, otherwise what would be the point of continuing trying to make space-ships after it got out of Antarctica?
In the Carpenter film, it builds the ship to get "anywhere but here", as is said by the characters. That tiny thing's not going to reach escape velocity; it doesn't need to. In the original novella it builds anti-gravity packs, again, to get off the ice.
A much, much simpler explanation for why it'd keep building space-ships -- ignoring the "Well the Carpenter film did it, so we'll do it, too" -- is that it
knows how, and is building its own transport to move freely.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 10:14:59 PM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 10:10:34 PM
While it obviously tries to survive first and foremost, it has definitely been trying to leave the planet as a secondary objective. In the prequel it attempts to use the ship to leave the planet. In John Carpenter's film it attempts to build a craft but is interrupted. In one of the comics it assimilates a crewmember on a tanker and is being taken back to civilization, but still attempts to build a space ship on the boat and leave the planet. In another of the comics it has escaped to Central America and takes over a military base for the purpose of using the base's resources to build a space ship. I think it's pretty clear that it's trying to get off the planet, not just out of the snow, otherwise what would be the point of continuing trying to make space-ships after it got out of Antarctica?
In the Carpenter film, it builds the ship to get "anywhere but here", as is said by the characters. That tiny thing's not going to reach escape velocity; it doesn't need to. In the original novella it builds anti-gravity packs, again, to get off the ice.
A much, much simpler explanation for why it'd keep building space-ships -- ignoring the "Well the Carpenter film did it, so we'll do it, too" -- is that it knows how, and is building its own transport to move freely.
Regardless of it's motivation, I think we can agree that even after it got out of the cold it didn't exactly go out of its way to assimilate anything and everything it could get its hands on. I mean, in the storyline where its in Central America it could have easily taken over not just the higher-ups at the base but everyone else there and all the surrounding wildlife by the time the main character woke up at the beginning.
Only if it had the opportunity to do so undetected.
It's made pretty clear in the comic that it could have had it wanted to. It also had several opportunities to infect MacReedy, especially because he was knocked out and isolated in a base where 75% of the staff had already been assimilated, but didn't. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't infect everything indiscriminately, and that "assimilating the world" is not its goal.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 09:55:23 PM
How do you figure? You keep saying that it's screwed against Xenos and we keep refuting all your arguments. And seeing as humans haven't been able to kill it over the course of 30 years, I don't really think a 'hostile' environment is going to be much of a problem.
You havn't refuted anything, the only thing you say is that you have refuted it which is falsy. The Thing is shown being affected by cold conditions, how is the Thing going to live on a near barren planet with nothing but chlorine to breath.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 08:38:11 AM
Except for all the movies where the Aliens got beaten and killed, I guess?
Out of the five movies that have classic Xenomorphs in them, they survived and or killed all the main characters in 3.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 09:55:23 PM
of the six films featuring the Aliens, they die in all of them. Individuals may survive in some of them, arguably Alien, Aliens, and Alien vs Predator, which is debatable in and of itself, but, as whole, they get wiped out time and time again.
No they don't I will repeat this comment again.
They have only shown them lose when they had small numbers, the only time I have seen the main characters take a planet from Xenomorphs, Xenomorphs that had taken over an ecosystem, was on earth, after nuking the hell out of it, and fighting them with on the ground for decades.
Other than Earth no planets have ever been shown being taken back from Xenomorphs that have a build up army and have taken control of the ecosystem on a planet. They didn't on Lv-1201, they didn't on LV-742, They didn't on Salazar VII, they didn't on Bunda Archey 377, they didn't ever take out Xenomorph Prime, and those are just planets that were in the story arcs. This has happened to a lot of planets.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 09:55:23 PM
The Thing is a gestalt entity. It's a completely different argument that I feel don't really feel like getting into as to whether separated parts of the Thing count as separate creatures or not. Either way, you're just playing semantics at this point, trying to bolster your argument in the face of failing tactics.
Its not a failing tactic the Thing can not adapt to or kill of the Xenomorphs, The Queen Mother will be aware if it, she will have the Aliens adapt to it, eventually the Thing will die off or retreat and never come back. That or become controlled.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 09:55:23 PM
No. We've already shown that it doesn't work that way. Try something new.
No Bio-Impertive works. Otherwise the Aliens never would have killed off all advanced life in the universe and or at least destroyed the other creatures societies. The Alien will have plenty of time to adapt to the Thing and neutralize it as a threat.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 09:55:23 PM
How would you know? Most sci-fi stories that feature both psi and gestalt entities stipulate that the mind-benders have a hard time dealing with a gestalt being as they don't have a centralized mind to control.
The problem with this statement here is that those mind-benders you are talking about do not have galactic awareness, they do not command every person in there army no matter where they are in the universe. With as many things the Queen Mother can control with her telepathic abilities dealing with a gestalt being will not be a problem. The Queen mother is not some generic psychic like from the x-men or 40k, she is very very powerful.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 26, 2012, 09:40:05 PM
you cant prove the bio imperative can defeat the thing. thats your opinion, not a fact.
Yeah I can prove it the bio-imperative can defeat the thing. The fact is it is stated as being a vast database, of evolutionary responses to a problem that hive faces.
Definition of vast
vast/vast/
Adjective:
Of very great extent or quantity; immense: "a vast plain of buffalo grass".
Noun:
An immense space.
Synonyms:
adjective. immense - huge - extensive - enormous - wide - spacious
noun. vastness - expanse
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 26, 2012, 09:40:05 PM
th aliens have never, ever met anything like the thing. even if they could adapt(eventually,not immediately
It states that they Evolve quickly, The Queen Mother is aware of everything going on in all the hives in the universe, they will be ready for this threat.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 26, 2012, 09:40:05 PM
the thing would already be acid proof and stronger than the average alien, and in more numbers.
The Thing can't assimilate the Xenomorph.
1)As standard it has really powerful acid for blood.
2)Bio-Imperative
3)The Alien is Inorganic, not one time has the Thing assimilated anything inorganic.
4)The Thing is very precise on what it can assimilate (example it can't assimilate freshly killed people), The Aliens bioology may be too alien for the Thing.
The other problem is IF it could assimilate an Alien it would ONLY be immune to acid when pretending to be a Xenomorph. They even say in the special edition that the Thing has no cells when it is assimilating something. Ergo it is not immitating the Aliens biology. 2nd) Bio-Imperative will fix this problem as well.
Quote1)As standard it has really powerful acid for blood.
And? Acids aren't magic.
Quote3)The Alien is Inorganic, not one time has the Thing assimilated anything inorganic.
Show us a situation where the Thing's had the
chance to assimilate a living organism that doesn't use carbon as a base for its compounds.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 26, 2012, 10:41:06 PM
1)As standard it has really powerful acid for blood.
And? Acids aren't magic.
Yes it is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_acid)
Quote3)The Alien is Inorganic, not one time has the Thing assimilated anything inorganic.
Show us a situation where the Thing's had the
chance to assimilate a living organism that doesn't use carbon as a base for its compounds.
[/quote]
If it could assimilate inorganic material it could just assimilate the snow tractor, or helicopter, or the radio ecct ecct.
First of all, what we have refuted is that "Bio-Imperative" works the way you are attesting it does. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, or that it doesn't work to a point, but the simple facts that Aliens die, hives get wiped out, queens can be killed, etc show that it's not the magical catch-all that you are making it out to be. You're simply refusing to acknowledge the validity of this point. Just because you're ignoring it doesn't mean we haven't done so.
And without that, a lot of your arguments fall flat.
Aliens are not hard to kill. It can be done with a hand-gun, as per Aliens. Meanwhile, the only thing that seems to work, to a point, on the Thing is a flamethrower, and even that doesn't actually kill it, it just takes an extended period of time for it to regenerate from the damage.
We've reasoned fairly succinctly that a Thing could in fact adapt to, assimilate, and kill xenomorphs, so stop saying it can't.
And your argument that the Queen Mother could mind-rape it 'because' lacks substance. And since you brought up the 'generic' psychics of X-Men, I'm pretty sure that Phoenix would make both the Aliens and the Thing her bitches. Just saying. :P
Anyway the Thing is just about as vulnerable to elements and hazards as humans are. For instance Blake used some kind of gaseous poison to check blood that could have been contaminated, his test were successful. A lot of acids in there descriptions have specific functions, they all react differently to different things, say for instance one type of acid is listed as not being able to breakdown salt, other things it eats up, do you really think the Thing will be immune to such an acid?
Oh, back to the Acid Argument? Okay.
Let's try a different approach on this one.
Do I think an Alien's acid could harm the Thing? Most certainly. I see no reason why it wouldn't. Barring a Thing assimilating an Alien and acquiring its acid-resistance I have no reason to believe it is acid proof.
That doesn't mean that the acid would kill it.
We see many times in Aliens that the acid is potent, but slow, and burns out quickly. When the acid is splashed around the environs, it eats strait down and loses power as it goes. It doesn't go forever or Alien would have been a much shorter film. And Aliens shows us what happens when it comes into contact with something other than star-ship deck plating. Some splashes on a Marine's face, and leaves nasty acid-burn but doesn't eat all the way through to the bone. When a character is splashed and it gets acid on their vest, they have time to take the vest off and throw it aside before the acid even eats all the way through the fabric.
Given all that, the Thing could be splashed numerous times and not even care. Assuming it got enough acid splash to maim a limb, it could easily excise it and grow a new one. An Alien's acid isn't some super-weapon that's just going to disintegrate the Thing on contact. The Thing could certainly get around it, and easily, even without any special acid immunity.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 11:06:27 PM
Oh, back to the Acid Argument? Okay.
Let's try a different approach on this one.
Do I think an Alien's acid could harm the Thing? Most certainly. I see no reason why it wouldn't. Barring a Thing assimilating an Alien and acquiring its acid-resistance I have no reason to believe it is acid proof.
That doesn't mean that the acid would kill it.
We see many times in Aliens that the acid is potent, but slow, and burns out quickly. When the acid is splashed around the environs, it eats strait down and loses power as it goes. It doesn't go forever or Alien would have been a much shorter film. And Aliens shows us what happens when it comes into contact with something other than star-ship deck plating. Some splashes on a Marine's face, and leaves nasty acid-burn but doesn't eat all the way through to the bone. When a character is splashed and it gets acid on their vest, they have time to take the vest off and throw it aside before the acid even eats all the way through the fabric.
Given all that, the Thing could be splashed numerous times and not even care. Assuming it got enough acid splash to maim a limb, it could easily excise it and grow a new one. An Alien's acid isn't some super-weapon that's just going to disintegrate the Thing on contact. The Thing could certainly get around it, and easily, even without any special acid immunity.
Plus the alien can't vomit up enough acid to completely engulf the thing.
so? the alien has one kind of acid and humans already can neutralize it. its not magic, it is not perfect.
and about hostile environments let me remind you that the aliend depends on an incredibly narrow selection of hosts than the thing, none as resilent as the xeno itself. there are more extremophile bacteria and microorganisms for thrle thing than suitable implantation hosts at any given time. and thing adapts as it absorbs, theres no place too inhospitable as long as something already lives there. most of those are useless to the alien.
QuoteThese are his only results from his experiments with this weapon. It was not successful otherwise it would be used in the stories after.
Yeah that doesn't say anything about him using the mold from the dying hive. Like I said, that mold was specifically exterminated (by accident) when his rescuers razed the hive. The characters specifically ask Church about the black mold and why he doesn't use it, and he laments that it got destroyed.
QuoteAlien, Aliens, AvP. Anyone that crosses path with the Aliens is dead.
Except for all the people who survived in the movies, right? Ripley (twice!), Newt, Hicks, Bishop, Morse, Johner, Call, Vriess, Lex, the ones from AvPR, and that's just from the movies.
QuoteBecause acids are pretty deadly stuff and if any super acids, let alone the stuff classics use as standard, got on the Thing it would turn it into hamburger, sap nutrients right out of it, and or dissolve it lickty split.
But you don't actually know how any of it would work against the Thing.
Quote
Ok every human, yautja the queen mother wanted to control mentally she did. Even from the other end of the galaxy, she even controlled humans that were so badly decayed that had the appearance of ghouls/zombies. The Thing thinks, has emotion, feels, it is no different than any other creature the alien has faced in those respects.
The problem here is you don't know how the Thing's mind works, or if it could be "controlled".
Quote
All of those do not fit what was seen in the movie.
Yes it does,
we see it happen.
I... I can't believe I'm having to explain this.
QuoteIt would ether be dead or retreated from said creature.
Then perhaps it retreated?
What you're saying is a circular argument at best. You tried it earlier in the thread and it was already refuted as a circular argument. I don't know why you're trying it again. ???
QuoteThe Xenomorph is one creature the Thing wont be able to beat. The reason being.
1)Bio-Imperative
2)Acid blood as a default
3)Inorganic not one time has the Thing assimilated a being that was inorganic.
4)Queen Mother
1. Bio-imperative was already shown to not be a catch-all magic card you can play to cover any contingency
2. humans have stomach acid, the Thing didn't have a problem coping with and replicating that.
3. you haven't proven that the Alien is inorganic any more than a human is inorganic, or that the Thing couldn't replicate it. The Alien obviously has organic elements to it.
4. already been addressed, we don't know that the Queen Mother could do anything with regard to the Thing.
QuoteAs for the script it is non canon compared to what is seen in the film.
Oh it's conveniently non-canon because it dis-proves what you're saying? Whoops! :D
QuoteNo Bio-Impertive works. Otherwise the Aliens never would have killed off all advanced life in the universe and or at least destroyed the other creatures societies. The Alien will have plenty of time to adapt to the Thing and neutralize it as a threat.
That's circular reasoning. You're saying "bio-imperative" works because bio-imperative works. That's a pretty huge logical fallacy.
QuoteOther than Earth no planets have ever been shown being taken back from Xenomorphs that have a build up army and have taken control of the ecosystem on a planet.
This is a fallacy. Just because it's never
shown doesn't mean it's never
happened.
The implication of the kill-teams in Xenogenesis, Tribes, and Berserker (off the top of my head) is that humans can and have reclaimed worlds infested by Aliens.
QuoteWith as many things the Queen Mother can control with her telepathic abilities dealing with a gestalt being will not be a problem. The Queen mother is not some generic psychic like from the x-men or 40k, she is very very powerful.
This is entirely an assumption and speculation. Cite some data where a Queen Mother has dealt with some sort of gestalt organism, and then you might have a case.
QuoteYeah I can prove it the bio-imperative can defeat the thing. The fact is it is stated as being a vast database, of evolutionary responses to a problem that hive faces.
Did you notice that the definition of "vast" does not include "omniscient"?
Quote4)The Thing is very precise on what it can assimilate (example it can't assimilate freshly killed people)
This is actually false if you go by the deleted scenes from the prequel, where the Thing assimilates the blonde dude with the glasses that the Juliette-Thing stabs in the chest.
Just sayin'.
That scene wasn't deleted or at least on the one i watched.
but yes xeno, the thing can indeed assimilate the dead...which is how it assimilates. it kills the original to replace it.
There are many ways it assimilates, either through its cells that are somehow introduced to the host body or the thing simply eats the victim and absorbs it
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 10:47:04 PM
First of all, what we have refuted is that "Bio-Imperative" works the way you are attesting it does. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, or that it doesn't work to a point, but the simple facts that Aliens die, hives get wiped out, queens can be killed, etc show that it's not the magical catch-all that you are making it out to be. You're simply refusing to acknowledge the validity of this point. Just because you're ignoring it doesn't mean we haven't done so.
And in all those cases only ONE was a planet that was taken over and its ecosystem highjacked. No other planet has the humans, predators, anyone else taken back from the xenomorphs. Fact of the matter is predators themselves avoid fighting any other type of alien that has NOT come from a human and other creatures that produce sim type Xenomorphs. They avoid fighting Xenomorphs that have evolved, all but one story with them heavily evolving shows the Predators getting there butts kicked.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 10:47:04 PM
Aliens are not hard to kill. It can be done with a hand-gun, as per Aliens.
At point blank range, if she tired doing the same thing to say a Onslaught Genome, Razor Claw, Whale Warrior Xenomorph, nothing would have happened.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 10:47:04 PM
Meanwhile, the only thing that seems to work, to a point, on the Thing is a flamethrower, and even that doesn't actually kill it, it just takes an extended period of time for it to regenerate from the damage.
Yes and anyone using a standard flamethrower/incenratior on a xenomorph would be killed, Napalm makes a good anti-tank substance, naplam is very very nasty, and that is the only fire based weapon we have seen used on Xenomorphs and work.
By the way do you think the Thing could survive being submerged in liquid lead? I seriously do not think it can, it is barely more durable than a human.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 10:47:04 PM
We've reasoned fairly succinctly that a Thing could in fact adapt to, assimilate, and kill xenomorphs, so stop saying it can't.
No you have not reasoned it out. All I saw your team say "The Thing prequel is stupid, they can assimilate everything." That is basically all I have seen your team say. There is nothing that shows in any medium that it can infect a Xenomorph.
I will go over the list of reasons why again.
1) It is inorganic
The Thing in the prequel was shown not to be able to assimilate anything inorganic. It had to leave a filling behind because that is something it can't digest. In that regard it is not 100% perfect at imitating its prey. Even IF the human body had inorganic material in it (IT doesn't) the thing may spit this stuff out or leave it behind, the thing always leaves a pool of junk behind after assimilating something. Xenomorphs are inorganic, there biology is inorgainc, there morphology is based heavily on silicon which is inorganic, it is even stated in Resurrection that the Alien is of foreign element, the material that makes up its brain is inorganic material. It is a bioroid, or even a reploid, to say it basically it is a living machine, a grown cyborg.
2) Bio-Imperative
The Aliens have destroyed all or nearly all advanced life before the Humans could even fly, they did this with there ability to evolve/adapt to whatever problem the hive/species faces. It has been doing this for eons or close to it, this ability has allowed the Aliens to fight hostile armed and armored enemies in frontal assaults and even siege like warfare and win, and they have done this many many times. Any human, Predator, Space Jockey, Others that have stood up and fought the Aliens, when the Aliens have adapted and grown in size after taking over the ecosystem, have had their butts kicked. And it gets worse because the Aliens gain skills from there hosts. Grouped with the Queen Mothers ability to command and plot what the race does form the other side galaxy/universe, the Aliens will not fall to the Thing period. Let say the Things DO take out hives of the Xenomorphs even assimilate them, it wont take long for the Xenomorph to have adapted and countered the Things capabilities. There so many planets that have had there ecosystems taken over, that have multiple multiple hives, the numbers are astronomical. There is no way they wont know about the thing, there is no way the wont have time to perfectly adapt to the Thing.
And as I pointed out earlier, Predators avoid contact with Xenomorphs that are not human based or of similar capabilities. If the Predators go up against an equal numbered army of Pred-aliens, it doesn't matter how they have evolved, the predators are dead.
You and your team have ignored this fact.
3)Acid for blood
As standard they have a very powerful acid for blood. This acid melts anything it comes into contact with very quickly. So the cells of the Thing once they get into the body would be destroyed very quickly. There is no way around this, the Thing being able to digest human stomach acids is a weak argument because those acids do not even act like the acid the aliens us as standard. With the Bio-Imperative they can even change what their blood does, they can even start using worse things than the acids that are scene normally. Like I pointed out before a mutagenic-acid would be a nightmarish thing to use on the Thing because not only is it dissolving the Thing, the parts that survive are infested with tumors. Those parts wont work correctly anymore, in fact it even says that those acids will sap the nutrients out it its body.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 10:47:04 PM
And your argument that the Queen Mother could mind-rape it 'because' lacks substance. And since you brought up the 'generic' psychics of X-Men, I'm pretty sure that Phoenix would make both the Aliens and the Thing her bitches. Just saying. :P
The Queen has controlled a lot of people all at once not only that but the Thing when it is whole acts as one being, there is nothing special about the Thing that would make it immune to being mind controlled, driven mad, or influenced.
When it comes to mind control the Queen Mother is more-powerful than the Phoenix, if IF she has no telepathic capabilities that project energy blasts then yes the Phoenix is more powerful. But since the Phoenix was mentioned I will point out that the Three Xenomorphs that are apart of the Sinestro corps or the Xenomorphs that have access to the force in starwars got into this fight those Xenomorphs will clobber her.
Quote from: Nero the Jackal on Feb 26, 2012, 11:41:47 PM
That scene wasn't deleted or at least on the one i watched.
but yes xeno, the thing can indeed assimilate the dead...which is how it assimilates. it kills the original to replace it.
There are many ways it assimilates, either through its cells that are somehow introduced to the host body or the thing simply eats the victim and absorbs it
You mean the scene where the blonde guy is standing in the room and Lars torches him after he does the inhuman Bennings-style howl?
That was totally a deleted scene. :)
QuoteYes and anyone using a standard flamethrower/incenratior on a xenomorph would be killed
The video games show this isn't true.
Quote[the Thing] is barely more durable than a human.
The Thing has survived getting shot, frozen, burned, blown up, cut, all sorts of stuff that kills a human outright. I'd say they're quite a bit more durable than a human.
QuoteXenomorphs are inorganic, there biology is inorgainc, there morphology is based heavily on silicon which is inorganic, it is even stated in Resurrection that the Alien is of foreign element, the material that makes up its brain is inorganic material.
This is false and has already been addressed.
Also I think you're going to have to provide some sort of citation on that Resurrection "foreign element" part.
QuoteAnd as I pointed out earlier, Predators avoid contact with Xenomorphs that are not human based or of similar capabilities. If the Predators go up against an equal numbered army of Pred-aliens, it doesn't matter how they have evolved, the predators are dead.
You and your team have ignored this fact.
This isn't true - every time a PredAlien has shown up in the video games (aside from the Alien campaign in AvP Extinction where you play as them) and the one time they've shown up in the comics, the PredAlien has been killed.
Predators see PredAliens as abominations, not scary nightmare-creatures that have to be avoided at all costs. Predators specifically single out PredAliens and kill them.
QuoteLike I pointed out before a mutagenic-acid would be a nightmarish thing to use on the Thing because not only is it dissolving the Thing, the parts that survive are infested with tumors.
You said it before, but you didn't prove that it would have any actual effect on the Thing.
QuoteWhen it comes to mind control the Queen Mother is more-powerful than the Phoenix, if IF she has no telepathic capabilities that project energy blasts then yes the Phoenix is more powerful. But since the Phoenix was mentioned I will point out that the Three Xenomorphs that are apart of the Sinestro corps or the Xenomorphs that have access to the force in starwars got into this fight those Xenomorphs will clobber her.
What in the-- what is... I don't even know what's going on here. ???
We're getting trolled. We have to be. There's no way this is unironic, non-trolling posting.
QuoteBy the way do you think the Thing could survive being submerged in liquid lead? I seriously do not think it can, it is barely more durable than a human.
well that goes for aliens as well, they can be stabbed, squashed, shot at and even bludgeoned and do you know what the difference between the two in the scenarios? The thing will always still be alive while the majority of these will kill an alien.
Predators do not avoid non-human spawned aliens. In AVP-R, Wolf was relentlessly trying to confront the predalien.
the predators also deployed eggs on a planet that had those four-legged creatures (can't remember the name) and the predators fought them i believe and then there was AVP War when a few non-humans get facehugged too if i recall correctly.
QuoteYou mean the scene where the blonde guy is standing in the room and Lars torches him after he does the inhuman Bennings-style howl?
That was totally a deleted scene.
Thought you meant when the juliet thing started assimilating him in the hallway.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 11:06:27 PM
Oh, back to the Acid Argument? Okay.
Let's try a different approach on this one.
Do I think an Alien's acid could harm the Thing? Most certainly. I see no reason why it wouldn't. Barring a Thing assimilating an Alien and acquiring its acid-resistance I have no reason to believe it is acid proof.
That doesn't mean that the acid would kill it.
We see many times in Aliens that the acid is potent, but slow, and burns out quickly. When the acid is splashed around the environs, it eats strait down and loses power as it goes. It doesn't go forever or Alien would have been a much shorter film. And Aliens shows us what happens when it comes into contact with something other than star-ship deck plating. Some splashes on a Marine's face, and leaves nasty acid-burn but doesn't eat all the way through to the bone. When a character is splashed and it gets acid on their vest, they have time to take the vest off and throw it aside before the acid even eats all the way through the fabric.
Given all that, the Thing could be splashed numerous times and not even care. Assuming it got enough acid splash to maim a limb, it could easily excise it and grow a new one. An Alien's acid isn't some super-weapon that's just going to disintegrate the Thing on contact. The Thing could certainly get around it, and easily, even without any special acid immunity.
Actually they have shown that the more concentrated the acid is in volume, the more potent it is, I really do not see a Thing surviving being doused with Acid vomit from a Praetorian, Pilot Alien, or any Alien evolved to use more acid weapons. As for the Marine that had his face splashed with acid, we only see what it looks like after a couple secondeds. Also in the case of hicks, it barley did anything to his skin, BUT it was enough to disable him, do you think the Thing has a higher pain threshold than a human, after seeing what the humans do to the Thing in the movies, I would say is very similar.
Yes they do have a higher pain threshold since they don't even acknowledge getting shot but a human would scream in pain. ::)
you don't understand. as soon as the acid hits the thing, a million limbs will come off and run away. and then it beings all over again. it's not a f**king disintegrator ray, it's a liquid. a tentacle, a tooth, an eyelash, a freaking microscopic particle of skin(which we, and subsecuently, the thing, shed constantly and leave a layer off in every surface, called dust). anything that flies away, crawls away, or stains the floor behind it, any insignificant trace the thing leaves behind is also part a thing, and still alive. you cannot, cannot, ever, ever end it. the alien would have to break the law of conservation of mass to make the seas of acid. shit, the only way the thing would be erradicated like that is to create a 50 meters deep sea of acid covering the entire planet. you might aswell melt the whole planet to the core then.
it needs to be slowly submerged into acid like the T-800 in T2. and how the hell are the aliens supposed to make a jaccuzzi of acid without it burning a well into the ground and dissipating? as a matter of fact, how are they going to handle the thing? you grab it and the body divides. you touch it and it envelops you. it's not an unit. it's amorphous, incontenible. the aliens cannot just pick things up like that,
and seriously...
QuoteThe Aliens have destroyed all or nearly all advanced life before the Humans could even fly, they did this with there ability to evolve/adapt to whatever problem the hive/species faces.
they obviously haven't destroyed the thing since it still exists, and existed millions of years before this supposed encounter happens. the thing has to exist in the first place for the alien to defeat it, or not? that also means the bio imperative is NOT pre-prepared(i know) for the thing.
the mere existance of the thing as a sentient being(you support this), means the alien did NOT wipe out absolutely everything. or it did and the thing just didn't gave a f**k and continued to live anyways, because it was infact unkillable.
QuoteIt has been doing this for eons or close to it, this ability has allowed the Aliens to fight hostile armed and armored enemies in frontal assaults and even siege like warfare and win, and they have done this many many times.
and have lost many times too.
QuoteAny human, Predator, Space Jockey, Others that have stood up and fought the Aliens, when the Aliens have adapted and grown in size after taking over the ecosystem, have had their butts kicked.
Herk f**king Mondo.
QuoteAnd it gets worse because the Aliens gain skills from there hosts. Grouped with the Queen Mothers ability to command and plot what the race does form the other side galaxy/universe, the Aliens will not fall to the Thing period.
superliminal communication with every being and the alien in alien still didn't manage to stay hidden and take over gateway by following Ripley. nor did the queen in aliens knew better than to give away herself, instead of starting to lay eggs in the Sulaco to spread once it docked, as the queen mother would surely know is a better strategy that would have worked. no, these aliens took their own choices.
QuoteLet say the Things DO take out hives of the Xenomorphs even assimilate them, it wont take long for the Xenomorph to have adapted and countered the Things capabilities.
how long again? Aliens aren't shapeshifters like the thing, they need to wait for a new generation for a mutagen to take effect. all the aliens that already exist would be succeptible to the thing anyways. what are they gonna do, mass suicide? how are they gonna replenish their number if they killed everything already?
QuoteThere so many planets that have had there ecosystems taken over, that have multiple multiple hives, the numbers are astronomical. There is no way they wont know about the thing, there is no way the wont have time to perfectly adapt to the Thing.
you still don't understand. one alien per one ANIMAL host. aliens can't facehug plants, can't facehug fungi, can't facehug bacteria, viruses, can't do f**k-all without relatively complex life. the thing only needs puddles of slime to expand. insects, there's more weight in insects on this world than humans. can the aliens infest insects? the thing can.
the thing has no limits.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
Yeah that doesn't say anything about him using the mold from the dying hive. Like I said, that mold was specifically exterminated (by accident) when his rescuers razed the hive. The characters specifically ask Church about the black mold and why he doesn't use it, and he laments that it got destroyed.
Source...? But you know what you don't have one because it isn't stated anywhere that the mold was destroyed, in the graphic novel.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
Except for all the people who survived in the movies, right? Ripley (twice!), Newt, Hicks, Bishop, Morse, Johner, Call, Vriess, Lex, the ones from AvPR, and that's just from the movies.
Just about all those people you mentioned are dead! All the people in AvPR were more than likely executed just from seeing the Aliens, Dallas brother is dead from a Alien bacterial infection.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
But you don't actually know how any of it would work against the Thing.
It is organic so yes I know that those acids will work on it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
The problem here is you don't know how the Thing's mind works, or if it could be "controlled".
It would be no different than command the armys of Xenomorphs that the Queen Mother does all over the universe. And I grantee there more Xenmorphs than there are cells in the Things body.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
Then perhaps it retreated?
What you're saying is a circular argument at best. You tried it earlier in the thread and it was already refuted as a circular argument. I don't know why you're trying it again. ???
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
1. Bio-imperative was already shown to not be a catch-all magic card you can play to cover any contingency
You have not shown prof of this.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
2. humans have stomach acid, the Thing didn't have a problem coping with and replicating that.
Yes because stomach acid from humans is the same type of acid Aliens use as standard.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
3. you haven't proven that the Alien is inorganic any more than a human is inorganic, or that the Thing couldn't replicate it. The Alien obviously has organic elements to it.
Ok you have forfeited this match. You have ignored canon material one too many times in this argument. You have shown a blatant disregard for the Aliens lore.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
4. already been addressed, we don't know that the Queen Mother could do anything with regard to the Thing.
It is mentally no different than any other creature in the galaxy. It feels fear, it has a since of survivability, it will even sell others of it kind down the river to survive. As has been talked about.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
Oh it's conveniently non-canon because it dis-proves what you're saying? Whoops! :D
You should know better that when it comes to continuity that you can't have multiple stories of the same general event with other different happen and count the other stories as canon, movies beat out the other versions of the same story unless specified elsewhere.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
QuoteNo Bio-Impertive works. Otherwise the Aliens never would have killed off all advanced life in the universe and or at least destroyed the other creatures societies. The Alien will have plenty of time to adapt to the Thing and neutralize it as a threat.
That's circular reasoning. You're saying "bio-imperative" works because bio-imperative works. That's a pretty huge logical fallacy.
No it is not circular reasoning, for example the Ravager was created to deal with the heavy units of whatever it is fighting, head on.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
This is a fallacy. Just because it's never shown doesn't mean it's never happened.
The implication of the kill-teams in Xenogenesis,
This is fallcy they never took any planets back in Xenogenesis. They failed with all their plot broken equipment.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
Tribes,
Where is your source that the juciers in these stories took on hives that took over planets and the ecosystem.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
and Berserker (off the top of my head) is that humans can and have reclaimed worlds infested by Aliens.
That was a space-station in that story. That same suit in Berserker would annihilate the Thing.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
This is entirely an assumption and speculation. Cite some data where a Queen Mother has dealt with some sort of gestalt organism, and then you might have a case.
She is able to command all the Alien in the universe, there are more aliens than there Thing cells in a Thing organism.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
Did you notice that the definition of "vast" does not include "omniscient"?
No but with the Queen Galactic awareness, and the tactics the normal Queens use, they are almost on the same level as Darth Sidious when it comes to plotting and tactics.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:34:12 PM
This is actually false if you go by the deleted scenes from the prequel, where the Thing assimilates the blonde dude with the glasses that the Juliette-Thing stabs in the chest.
Just sayin'.
Well then he wasn't dead.
QuoteJust about all those people you mentioned are dead! All the people in AvPR were more than likely executed just from seeing the Aliens, Dallas brother is dead from a Alien bacterial infection.
... really?.....really?! *rolls around on the floor laughing* :laugh:
Apart from newt, hicks and ripley who are now dead, that is wild speculation at best and a desperation and straw grabbing at worst.
the only one doing the disregarding is you kingangel, you are refusing to acknowledge other people's strong opinions, you are too biased and emotionally involved when it comes to aliens, so its you who have "forfeited" the debate or in your case argument.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:48:22 PM
Yes and anyone using a standard flamethrower/incenratior on a xenomorph would be killed
The video games show this isn't true.
Not soo, the fire based weapons used by Marines uses Napalm. Or in the case of AvP:E heavily heavily radiated napalm.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:48:22 PM
The Thing has survived getting shot,
Yeah and, it still damaged it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:48:22 PM
frozen,
I might point out that since Aliens can take jets of liquid nitrogen, that the alien can survive in colder places than the Thing.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:48:22 PM
burned, blown up,
Prof, source...? They killed Carrier bf in a giant freaking explosion and it stayed dead.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:48:22 PM
cut, all sorts of stuff that kills a human outright. I'd say they're quite a bit more durable than a human.
All these thing damage its tissue, you are mistaking, healing or morphing capabilities with durability.
QuoteXenomorphs are inorganic, there biology is inorgainc, there morphology is based heavily on silicon which is
This is false and has already been addressed.
Also I think you're going to have to provide some sort of citation on that Resurrection "foreign element" part.
You are a troll. You have a complete disregard for canon materiel. It is stated they are of foreign element by the doctor when they find the guy that was asleep that was impregnated that was holding a metal rod.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:48:22 PM
This isn't true - every time a PredAlien has shown up in the video games (aside from the Alien campaign in AvP Extinction where you play as them) and the one time they've shown up in the comics, the PredAlien has been killed.
Predators see PredAliens as abominations, not scary nightmare-creatures that have to be avoided at all costs. Predators specifically single out PredAliens and kill them.
Yes it is true they don't go out of there way to fight them because of what you said and because they are too dangerous. Hell the Predators had to deal with an Army of them in Aliens vs Predator War. Besides the Max suit being there it endeds up with all those predators dead.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:48:22 PM
You said it before, but you didn't prove that it would have any actual effect on the Thing.
It works on everything else, why would the Thing be an exception? It is an organic creature mutagenic acids are going to work on it. Hell it will work on inorgainc stuff too use not cause it to develop tumors.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:48:22 PM
We're getting trolled. We have to be. There's no way this is unironic, non-trolling posting.
Rigght...
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 26, 2012, 11:58:11 PM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 26, 2012, 11:06:27 PM
Oh, back to the Acid Argument? Okay.
Let's try a different approach on this one.
Do I think an Alien's acid could harm the Thing? Most certainly. I see no reason why it wouldn't. Barring a Thing assimilating an Alien and acquiring its acid-resistance I have no reason to believe it is acid proof.
That doesn't mean that the acid would kill it.
We see many times in Aliens that the acid is potent, but slow, and burns out quickly. When the acid is splashed around the environs, it eats strait down and loses power as it goes. It doesn't go forever or Alien would have been a much shorter film. And Aliens shows us what happens when it comes into contact with something other than star-ship deck plating. Some splashes on a Marine's face, and leaves nasty acid-burn but doesn't eat all the way through to the bone. When a character is splashed and it gets acid on their vest, they have time to take the vest off and throw it aside before the acid even eats all the way through the fabric.
Given all that, the Thing could be splashed numerous times and not even care. Assuming it got enough acid splash to maim a limb, it could easily excise it and grow a new one. An Alien's acid isn't some super-weapon that's just going to disintegrate the Thing on contact. The Thing could certainly get around it, and easily, even without any special acid immunity.
Actually they have shown that the more concentrated the acid is in volume, the more potent it is, I really do not see a Thing surviving being doused with Acid vomit from a Praetorian, Pilot Alien, or any Alien evolved to use more acid weapons. As for the Marine that had his face splashed with acid, we only see what it looks like after a couple secondeds. Also in the case of hicks, it barley did anything to his skin, BUT it was enough to disable him, do you think the Thing has a higher pain threshold than a human, after seeing what the humans do to the Thing in the movies, I would say is very similar.
Except how the f**k do you 'disable' a Thing? You maim a limb, it grows a new one. You chop it up, the parts can each attack you separately or form back into a whole. I really can't see splashing it with some acid slowing it down. The get enough acid splash to actually make it back off, the alien a) is dead, and it's broken body bled all over the Thing, in which case the Thing already won that fight, or b) is one of those hypothetical bigger Aliens in which case, they'll run out of acid (it's not indefinite) and the Thing will win the battle of attrition.
And seriously, a Thing's 'pain tolerance'? It's so much higher than ours it's not even funny. And ours is pretty high to begin with. Seriously. Even if you're just watching the films, it gets stabbed, axed, shot, lit on fire, and blown up, and yeah, it's hurt, but it doesn't stop, and in many cases doesn't even slow down.
QuoteQuote from: Xenomrph
1. Bio-imperative was already shown to not be a catch-all magic card you can play to cover any contingency
You have not shown prof of this.
Yes, we have. Several times. You just keep ignoring it.
QuoteOk you have forfeited this match. You have ignored canon material one too many times in this argument. You have shown a blatant disregard for the Aliens lore.
Oh for f**k's sake. That's not how this works. Stop doing this, it's childish.
By your logic you yourself have forfeited because you keep ignoring all the canon arguments we bring against you.
QuoteShe is able to command all the Alien in the universe, there are more aliens than there Thing cells in a Thing organism.
Are you f**king kidding me?
Current estimates place the number of cells in the human body to be between 75 and 100 trillion. That's in the average
human body. The Thing is bigger than us and can grow to colossal size. If you look at the end boss of the 2002 video game, let's be conservative and say it's ten times the size of an average human, that 10x10^15 cells estimate. That's 10,000,000,000,000,000 cells. There aren't that many Aliens in all of the comics, games, films, and novels put together. And the Thing can always get more by assimilating more creatures, exponentially increasing the number of cells with each host, which can be any living thing; insects, extremaphiles, birds, people, you name it. whereas the Aliens have to find a suitable host, get it facehugged in order to produce
one more Alien.
QuoteJust about all those people you mentioned are dead!
Even if that were true, you'll notice it wasn't the Aliens that killed them.
Your arguments are refuted time and time again. You have made no apparent effort to see things from an opposing viewpoint, and continue to regurgitate the same arguments over and over again regardless of the fact that the rest of us have come up with several ways around all of them, if not refuted them outright. In your own words, You are a troll. You cherry-pick the expanded universe to suit your tastes and have taken some of its features out of context and blown them out of proportion, while ignoring others brought up in opposition to your viewpoint. You are stubbornly clinging to your arguments without even considering that you might be wrong.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 27, 2012, 12:48:47 AM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 26, 2012, 11:48:22 PM
We're getting trolled. We have to be. There's no way this is unironic, non-trolling posting.
Rigght...
Tis why I left this thread several pages back. Very enjoyable for a time.
Quote
Source...? But you know what you don't have one because it isn't stated anywhere that the mold was destroyed, in the graphic novel.
I'll try and get a quote for you later.
QuoteJust about all those people you mentioned are dead! All the people in AvPR were more than likely executed just from seeing the Aliens, Dallas brother is dead from a Alien bacterial infection.
No they're not though. ??? How do you know he's dead from a bacterial infection? Can you provide a source?
QuoteIt is organic so yes I know that those acids will work on it.
Without knowing how the Thing operates you don't know how it would work. Just because it works one way on one organism doesn't mean it works the same way on ALL organisms. Assuming that is a huge logical fallacy.
QuoteIt would be no different than command the armys of Xenomorphs that the Queen Mother does all over the universe.
But that doesn't prove anything, that's an assumption at best. Seriously it's not that complicated.
QuoteOk you have forfeited this match. You have ignored canon material one too many times in this argument. You have shown a blatant disregard for the Aliens lore.
el oh el
Quote
It is mentally no different than any other creature in the galaxy. It feels fear, it has a since of survivability, it will even sell others of it kind down the river to survive. As has been talked about.
It's also a gestalt entity, which means its mind could very well operate differently from a "conventional" creature.
You just don't know.
QuoteYou should know better that when it comes to continuity that you can't have multiple stories of the same general event with other different happen and count the other stories as canon, movies beat out the other versions of the same story unless specified elsewhere.
Yeah and the movie doesn't contradict what the script, novelization, and comic adaptation say: that the Alien was killed at the end of the movie.
QuoteThis is fallcy they never took any planets back in Xenogenesis. They failed with all their plot broken equipment.
No, Xenogenesis shows them screwing up on one planet, but other than that their gear worked just fine and they killed plenty of Aliens.
Their "juice"
outright dissolved Aliens. It made them fall apart.
Also I don't think you know what "fallacy" means.
QuoteShe is able to command all the Alien in the universe, there are more aliens than there Thing cells in a Thing organism.
How do you know this? (hint: you don't)
The number of cells in a Thing organism is dependent on the amount of bio-mass in the Thing at a given time. Saying "there are more Aliens than Thing cells" is absolute nonsense. Like it literally does not make sense.
QuoteNo but with the Queen Galactic awareness, and the tactics the normal Queens use, they are almost on the same level as Darth Sidious when it comes to plotting and tactics.
If this were at all true, Earth would never have been reclaimed and no Aliens would ever die in any of the movies ever.
Quote
Well then he wasn't dead.
Yes he was, the filmmakers are quite clear on it in the commentary for the deleted scene.
It's similar to Windows getting killed in the Carpenter movie, and then he starts to move around as the Thing takes over his corpse's bio-mass, or why the black guy gets burned in the prequel after he dies, because he'd been stabbed by the Thing and the characters didn't want to risk his body getting up and walking around after the Thing took over.
Quote
Yeah and, it still damaged it.
Yeah and it outright kills Aliens. What's your point?
Quote
I might point out that since Aliens can take jets of liquid nitrogen, that the alien can survive in colder places than the Thing.
Humans can survive jets of liquid nitrogen, too. Doesn't mean it's pleasant, but it isn't automatically fatal. Submerge an Alien in liquid nitrogen and it'll get frozen plenty good - in fact it happens in 'Aliens: Salvation', 'Aliens: Glass Corridor', and 'Aliens: Cargo' (I think) off the top of my head.
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Prof, source...? They killed Carrier bf in a giant freaking explosion and it stayed dead.
I don't know what "Carrier bf" is, but the split-face Thing got burned alive and then turned around and infected Bennings in the Carpenter movie. The Dog-Thing got burned and Blair outright says it's not dead.
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All these thing damage its tissue, you are mistaking, healing or morphing capabilities with durability.
What's your point? The Thing still survived all those things.
QuoteIt is stated they are of foreign element by the doctor when they find the guy that was asleep that was impregnated that was holding a metal rod.
Can you provide a quote?
QuoteYes it is true they don't go out of there way to fight them because of what you said and because they are too dangerous. Hell the Predators had to deal with an Army of them in Aliens vs Predator War. Besides the Max suit being there it endeds up with all those predators dead.
Nothing you said changed anything I said. ???
And a lot of those Predators weren't killed by the Aliens. Hell, War opens with a group of Predators (and a human) raiding an Alien hive, stomping some Alien ass, and capturing a Queen. By your reasoning, that shouldn't have happened.
QuoteIt works on everything else, why would the Thing be an exception? It is an organic creature mutagenic acids are going to work on it.
Because it's an extraterrestrial and we don't know how it works, I assumed that would be common sense.
You're the one claiming it would have an effect, by all means prove it. :)
Didn't one of the guys say that there was still cellular activity in the charred remains?
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Feb 27, 2012, 01:03:28 AM
Didn't one of the guys say that there was still cellular activity in the charred remains?
Yes, not even flamethrowers work entirely.
My bet is that the only sure way of killing a thing completely is to somehow dump it in a blast furnace or a volcano which in itself would be extremely difficult since getting the thing there would be very dangerous.
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Feb 27, 2012, 01:03:28 AM
Didn't one of the guys say that there was still cellular activity in the charred remains?
Yep, Blair says it.
QuoteSource...? But you know what you don't have one because it isn't stated anywhere that the mold was destroyed, in the graphic novel.
Novel page 183.
Or does that suddenly and conveniently not count?
I KNEW it was in the novel. I actually just checked the comic and he's right, it's not there.
Thanks, I was going to ask you (or Predxeno or someone) to find it for me. I don't have my copy of the Labyrinth novel handy.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
you don't understand. as soon as the acid hits the thing, a million limbs will come off and run away. and then it beings all over again. it's not a f**king disintegrator ray, it's a liquid. a tentacle, a tooth, an eyelash, a freaking microscopic particle of skin(which we, and subsecuently, the thing, shed constantly and leave a layer off in every surface, called dust). anything that flies away, crawls away, or stains the floor behind it, any insignificant trace the thing leaves behind is also part a thing, and still alive. you cannot, cannot, ever, ever end it.
No you do not understand that they will be fighting each-other for a very very long time. This battle involves a lot of attrition. Eventually there will be nothing for the Thing to assimilate. If it has enough biomass it will have to retreat or die. The Thing except for carrier b4 do not keep growing without consuming body mass.
By the way I call false on your statement that with its eye lashes and skin flakes and even drool counts as thing particles, because there were people that handled that dog in the first thing movie and they didn't become the Thing, the guy that handled it the most was even shot in the head because he was supected as being the Thing, but it turns out he wasn't.
Also just so you know there are acids that travel though nerves and or to bone and screw thing up instead of just flat out melting whatever it is it touched, so not all acids follow a splatter pattern when they make contact with organic material.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
the alien would have to break the law of conservation of mass to make the seas of acid. shit, the only way the thing would be erradicated like that is to create a 50 meters deep sea of acid covering the entire planet. you might aswell melt the whole planet to the core then.
Perhaps you didn't notice, Aliens do constantly break the law of conversion of mass, and not just with Acids ether.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
it needs to be slowly submerged into acid like the T-800 in T2.
Source...?
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
and how the hell are the aliens supposed to make a jaccuzzi of acid without it burning a well into the ground and dissipating?
This is a problem why...? A similar thing happened in Aliens: Labyrinth.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
as a matter of fact, how are they going to handle the thing? you grab it and the body divides. you touch it and it envelops you. it's not an unit. it's amorphous, incontenible. the aliens cannot just pick things up like that,
With more acid based weapons, venoms, enzymes, and, toxins. We no poisens that work on humans works on the thing as was shown in the game with Blake as the main character. Mostly just the Bio-Imperative.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
they obviously haven't destroyed the thing since it still exists, and existed millions of years before this supposed encounter happens. the thing has to exist in the first place for the alien to defeat it, or not? that also means the bio imperative is NOT pre-prepared(i know) for the thing.
And the Thing obviously hasn't killed the Xenomorphs... Just saying. By the way since you guys pull this with me all the time, where does it say or show a Thing assimulating a Xenomorph?
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
the mere existance of the thing as a sentient being(you support this), means the alien did NOT wipe out absolutely everything. or it did and the thing just didn't gave a f**k and continued to live anyways, because it was infact unkillable.
You do know that Thing itself has not officially been put in a cross over with the Aliens...? That kinda ruins your statement that Aliens are incompetent. But if they were at the time that the Aliens did kill off just about everything you would have to prove that the Thing/s had there own society and were space capable, seeing how it is it hitched a ride or was forced to hitch a ride in a saucer and crashed when it did it was most likley did NOT come from a space fairing race.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
and have lost many times too.
Not as many as you think!
Other than Earth no planets have ever been shown being taken back from Xenomorphs that have a build up army and have taken control of the ecosystem on a planet. They didn't on Lv-1201, they didn't on LV-742, They didn't on Salazar VII, they didn't on Bunda Archey 377, they didn't ever take out Xenomorph Prime, and those are just planets that were in the story arcs. This has happened to a lot of planets.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
Herk f**king Mondo.
One of the most broken characters in comicdom. He would do the same thing to the Thing as he did to the Aliens.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
superliminal communication with every being and the alien in alien still didn't manage to stay hidden and take over gateway by following Ripley. nor did the queen in aliens knew better than to give away herself, instead of starting to lay eggs in the Sulaco to spread once it docked, as the queen mother would surely know is a better strategy that would have worked. no, these aliens took their own choices.
In the end she killed just about everyone on Earth.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
how long again? Aliens aren't shapeshifters like the thing, they need to wait for a new generation for a mutagen to take effect.
Very very fast, it says in the lore they evolve quickly with preexisting Xenomorphs, so it wont take "generations" to take effect.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
all the aliens that already exist would be succeptible to the thing anyways. what are they gonna do, mass suicide? how are they gonna replenish their number if they killed everything already?
Read above, Bio-Imperative.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
you still don't understand. one alien per one ANIMAL host. aliens can't facehug plants, can't facehug fungi, can't facehug bacteria, viruses, can't do f**k-all without relatively complex life. the thing only needs puddles of slime to expand. insects, there's more weight in insects on this world than humans. can the aliens infest insects? the thing can.
You don't understand, with Bio-Imperative they can impregante a host with more than one Xenomorph, belly bursters also produce 6 xenomorphs per host.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 12:29:45 AM
the thing has no limits.
Oh so the Thing finale took over Earth...? It left Earth to go do its business...? When did this happen...?
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You don't understand, with Bio-Imperative they can impregante a host with more than one Xenomorph, belly bursters also produce 6 xenomorphs per host.
That was a queen predalien that could do that, not just any predalien and by my count there were four bellybursters not six.
QuoteThis is a problem why...? A similar thing happened in Aliens: Labyrinth.
Yeah because the humans vaporized the shit out of a bunch of Aliens, and then their acid splashed over them like a wave. It wasn't anything the Aliens did.
QuoteOther than Earth no planets have ever been shown being taken back from Xenomorphs that have a build up army and have taken control of the ecosystem on a planet.
Just because it hasn't been shown doesn't mean it hasn't happened. To assume as such is a logical fallacy.
QuoteOne of the most broken characters in comicdom. He would do the same thing to the Thing as he did to the Aliens.
So? Just goes to show Aliens aren't as infallible as you'd like to think if one guy can make his living by razing Alien hives singlehandedly.
Seriously it's like talking to a brick wall. I'm confident you're not actually reading any of the replies anyone is posting, or at the very least you're grossly misunderstanding them.
If you come back with "no it's you who is wrong/misunderstanding/whatever" that just backs up what I'm talking about.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Except how the f**k do you 'disable' a Thing? You maim a limb, it grows a new one. You chop it up, the parts can each attack you separately or form back into a whole. I really can't see splashing it with some acid slowing it down.
Have you seen how much acid a human based Pratarion or a Pilot Alien can vomit? All the Things I have seen except Carrier B4 would be complete covered or almost completely covered, the bigger ones in the game only need to be puked on twice.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
The get enough acid splash to actually make it back off, the alien a) is dead, and it's broken body bled all over the Thing, in which case the Thing already won that fight, or b) is one of those hypothetical bigger Aliens in which case, they'll run out of acid (it's not indefinite) and the Thing will win the battle of attrition.
The Thing would recoil from the pain from just acid splashed on it from a would to the alien. The amount of acid a Partarion, Pilot Alien, or the Predalien Warriors on LV-742 use, is in much much much greater volumes.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
And seriously, a Thing's 'pain tolerance'? It's so much higher than ours it's not even funny. And ours is pretty high to begin with. Seriously. Even if you're just watching the films, it gets stabbed, axed, shot, lit on fire, and blown up, and yeah, it's hurt, but it doesn't stop, and in many cases doesn't even slow down.
The dog one got shot in the FACE one time and that made it recoil. The one with the bad heart couldn't take have a defibrillator, the Thing that was pretending to be a french women ran to go put the fire out that was covering it. It has nearly the same pain tolerance as a human. Haveing acid but on it is going to mess it up bad.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Yes, we have. Several times. You just keep ignoring it.
Then by your logic the Alien never could have won against it enemies, but alas they have.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Oh for f**k's sake. That's not how this works. Stop doing this, it's childish.
HEY TIME TO WAKE UP! How about you take a trip to the comicvine and learn the specific rules that are used in match up fighting debate. We do not tolerate canon breakers.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
By your logic you yourself have forfeited because you keep ignoring all the canon arguments we bring against you.
No I am not ignoring them, you all ether are lacking in tactical awareness skills and or are not seeing the whole picture in this fight, or maybe you even do not know the parameters for this fight. This is not a fight between the Thing and one hive a Xenomorphs on one planet, this fight is every xenomorphs, on every planet, and every hive, vs every Thing, in a battle of annihilation.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Are you f**king kidding me?
Current estimates place the number of cells in the human body to be between 75 and 100 trillion. That's in the average human body. The Thing is bigger than us and can grow to colossal size. If you look at the end boss of the 2002 video game, let's be conservative and say it's ten times the size of an average human, that 10x10^15 cells estimate. That's 10,000,000,000,000,000 cells. There aren't that many Aliens in all of the comics, games, films, and novels put together. And the Thing can always get more by assimilating more creatures, exponentially increasing the number of cells with each host, which can be any living thing; insects, extremaphiles, birds, people, you name it. whereas the Aliens have to find a suitable host, get it facehugged in order to produce one more Alien.
No I am not kidding you do you realize how many planets there are in the universe, and that the Aliens are not just fighting humans? They NEARLY wiped all life out in the galaxy and or universe, that is a freaking huge amount of places the Alien went to kill and set up shop. So yes I am sure there are more Aliens than there cells in the human body. Xenomorph prime alone would have around trilions on it just from what was scene in Genocide, and the fact that the Alien do alow the ecosystem of planet to keep going so they CAN keep making more of themselves. They have been doing this for a very long time.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Even if that were true, you'll notice it wasn't the Aliens that killed them.
Oh so Ripley is alive explain this? Newt is alive explain how. Hicks is alive explain how. Lex is alive explain how. The ones from AvPR, and that's just from the movies. The directors said the wanted them all to die, and more than likely to keep the coverup under raps the Americans killed those people. They definitely didn't exile them to Novotel St. Petersburg Centre.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Your arguments are refuted time and time again.
You keep ignoring them is more like it, or throwing out things like "have you seen and alien use mutagenic-acid on a Thing" I can ask a similar question, have you seen a Thing assimilate a Xenomorph? No, well I guess they can't.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
You have made no apparent effort to see things from an opposing viewpoint,
Yes I have, but you are using flawed logic, and from the get go you and your team have been nothing but pro Thing and are quite willing to ignore canon material. From what you and your team have said the Aliens are a 0-1 level threat. Well I can say for sertan that have a bunch of snow fall on an alien that it wont just give up and go into hibernation. The tactics that the Humans have used to fight the Thing in the movies and games, would not work well against the Xenomorphs.
That and I have seen this debate before I know how it will play out. My only question is why are you even on this website? Shouldn't you be on a "Thing" fan site.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
and continue to regurgitate the same arguments over and over again regardless of the fact that the rest of us have come up with several ways around all of them, if not refuted them outright.
The reason I mention them over and over again is because you haven't refuted them. Every example you bring up with aliens losing is when they have not really built up a hive, and taken over an ecosystem. For example the Predators do not go out of there way to deal with Aliens that do have a planet wide hive, if they do it is a new hive, even then the prefer hunting freshly made Xenomorphs more than likely because of the problems they would face if they did fight a hive prepared for them that has use the bio-imperative.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
In your own words, You are a troll. You cherry-pick the expanded universe to suit your tastes and have taken some of its features out of context and blown them out of proportion, while ignoring others brought up in opposition to your viewpoint. You are stubbornly clinging to your arguments without even considering that you might be wrong.
This whole statment is false, not only that but you have done exactly what you are saying I did. Like for example the thing can spread just through a finger print left on a wall. Oh and my favorite one, the Thing could leave earth IF THE HUMANS LEFT IT ALONE. ::)
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The dog one got shot in the FACE one time and that made it recoil. The one with the bad heart couldn't take have a defibrillator, the Thing that was pretending to be a french women ran to go put the fire out that was covering it. It has nearly the same pain tolerance as a human. Haveing acid but on it is going to mess it up bad.
Its called survival numtpy, if you were on fire but couldn't feel it much what would you do? put it out to stay alive or just sit down and read the newspaper? Norris having a bad heart was due to perfect imitation and it could take the defibs but it viewed it as an attack and so proceed to eat the good doctors hands.
"Oh so Ripley is alive explain this? Newt is alive explain how. Hicks is alive explain how. Lex is alive explain how. The ones from AvPR, and that's just from the movies. The directors said the wanted them all to die, and more than likely to keep the coverup under raps the Americans killed those people. They definitely didn't exile them to Novotel St. Petersburg Centre."
The aliens didn't kill them. In Alien 3, Newt drowned, Hicks got smashed by a beam. Ripley killed herself. He never said they were alive, he said the aliens didn't kill them.
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Feb 27, 2012, 02:41:37 AM
"Oh so Ripley is alive explain this? Newt is alive explain how. Hicks is alive explain how. Lex is alive explain how. The ones from AvPR, and that's just from the movies. The directors said the wanted them all to die, and more than likely to keep the coverup under raps the Americans killed those people. They definitely didn't exile them to Novotel St. Petersburg Centre."
The aliens didn't kill them. In Alien 3, Newt drowned, Hicks got smashed by a beam. Ripley killed herself. He never said they were alive, he said the aliens didn't kill them.
And lex is still alive last we see and so are the survivors of AVP-R.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 27, 2012, 02:21:23 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Except how the f**k do you 'disable' a Thing? You maim a limb, it grows a new one. You chop it up, the parts can each attack you separately or form back into a whole. I really can't see splashing it with some acid slowing it down.
Have you seen how much acid a human based Pratarion or a Pilot Alien can vomit? All the Things I have seen except Carrier B4 would be complete covered or almost completely covered, the bigger ones in the game only need to be puked on twice.
This still doesn't mean it's an instant kill.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
The get enough acid splash to actually make it back off, the alien a) is dead, and it's broken body bled all over the Thing, in which case the Thing already won that fight, or b) is one of those hypothetical bigger Aliens in which case, they'll run out of acid (it's not indefinite) and the Thing will win the battle of attrition.
The Thing would recoil from the pain from just acid splashed on it from a would to the alien. The amount of acid a Partarion, Pilot Alien, or the Predalien Warriors on LV-742 use, is in much much much greater volumes.
1) learn to spell. It's Praetorian or Prætorian.
2) you're using game mechanics as story canon again. Stop that.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
And seriously, a Thing's 'pain tolerance'? It's so much higher than ours it's not even funny. And ours is pretty high to begin with. Seriously. Even if you're just watching the films, it gets stabbed, axed, shot, lit on fire, and blown up, and yeah, it's hurt, but it doesn't stop, and in many cases doesn't even slow down.
The dog one got shot in the FACE one time and that made it recoil. The one with the bad heart couldn't take have a defibrillator, the Thing that was pretending to be a french women ran to go put the fire out that was covering it. It has nearly the same pain tolerance as a human. Haveing acid but on it is going to mess it up bad.
Guess what? The last time I saw an alien get shot in the face from that range,
it died. Big difference between "shot in the face, recoiled and shrugged it off" and "shot in the face. dead."
Also, you're using the term "pain tolerance" incorrectly.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Yes, we have. Several times. You just keep ignoring it.
Then by your logic the Alien never could have won against it enemies, but alas they have.
No, my logic is simply not overstating their abilities. I'm simply stating that they're capable of losing, and do, frequently, and backing it up with evidence. Your overplaying of their capabilities seems to suggest this shouldn't happen.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Oh for f**k's sake. That's not how this works. Stop doing this, it's childish.
HEY TIME TO WAKE UP! How about you take a trip to the comicvine and learn the specific rules that are used in match up fighting debate. We do not tolerate canon breakers.
Sorry, I had to wait till I stopped laughing to respond to this one. ::)
1) This isn't comicvine. Cry some more.
2) we're not breaking canon, we're simply not ignoring the parts we don't like.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
By your logic you yourself have forfeited because you keep ignoring all the canon arguments we bring against you.
No I am not ignoring them, you all ether are lacking in tactical awareness skills and or are not seeing the whole picture in this fight, or maybe you even do not know the parameters for this fight. This is not a fight between the Thing and one hive a Xenomorphs on one planet, this fight is every xenomorphs, on every planet, and every hive, vs every Thing, in a battle of annihilation.
That's actually the first time this has been stated. Thanks for filling us in. ;)
I still contend the Things would win. They can multiply at an exponentially larger and faster rate than the xeno's can, and since a single Thing vs a Xeno hive results in a Thing win, I can easily extrapolate the results from there.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Are you f**king kidding me?
Current estimates place the number of cells in the human body to be between 75 and 100 trillion. That's in the average human body. The Thing is bigger than us and can grow to colossal size. If you look at the end boss of the 2002 video game, let's be conservative and say it's ten times the size of an average human, that 10x10^15 cells estimate. That's 10,000,000,000,000,000 cells. There aren't that many Aliens in all of the comics, games, films, and novels put together. And the Thing can always get more by assimilating more creatures, exponentially increasing the number of cells with each host, which can be any living thing; insects, extremaphiles, birds, people, you name it. whereas the Aliens have to find a suitable host, get it facehugged in order to produce one more Alien.
No I am not kidding you do you realize how many planets there are in the universe, and that the Aliens are not just fighting humans? They NEARLY wiped all life out in the galaxy and or universe, that is a freaking huge amount of places the Alien went to kill and set up shop. So yes I am sure there are more Aliens than there cells in the human body. Xenomorph prime alone would have around trilions on it just from what was scene in Genocide, and the fact that the Alien do alow the ecosystem of planet to keep going so they CAN keep making more of themselves. They have been doing this for a very long time.
So Have the Things. Extrapolation again results in Thing numbers expanding far more rapidly than Aliens, accounting for a difference in Thing cells to Aliens that I don't even have numbers high enough to express. Get over it.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Even if that were true, you'll notice it wasn't the Aliens that killed them.
Oh so Ripley is alive explain this? Newt is alive explain how. Hicks is alive explain how. Lex is alive explain how. The ones from AvPR, and that's just from the movies. The directors said the wanted them all to die, and more than likely to keep the coverup under raps the Americans killed those people. They definitely didn't exile them to Novotel St. Petersburg Centre.
Ripley killed herself. Newt drowned. Hicks was mutilated in the crash. None of them were killed by Aliens.
Lex is totally alive, why wouldn't she be? Same goes for Dallas, Rickey, Kelly, & Molly. They were all alive last I checked.
By the way, don't try to paraphrase what directors want and then discount scripts and novelizations. It's just hypocritical.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Your arguments are refuted time and time again.
You keep ignoring them is more like it, or throwing out things like "have you seen and alien use mutagenic-acid on a Thing" I can ask a similar question, have you seen a Thing assimilate a Xenomorph? No, well I guess they can't.
Then we agree that you're pulling stuff out of your ass when you claim a xenomorph couldn't be assimilated? We're at least trying to logic our way through it. You, on the other hand, seem to clinging to some misbegotten definition of "organic" as a defense.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
You have made no apparent effort to see things from an opposing viewpoint,
Yes I have, but you are using flawed logic, and from the get go you and your team have been nothing but pro Thing and are quite willing to ignore canon material. From what you and your team have said the Aliens are a 0-1 level threat. Well I can say for sertan that have a bunch of snow fall on an alien that it wont just give up and go into hibernation. The tactics that the Humans have used to fight the Thing in the movies and games, would not work well against the Xenomorphs.
That and I have seen this debate before I know how it will play out. My only question is why are you even on this website? Shouldn't you be on a "Thing" fan site.
We've ignored no canon material. I'm not sure why you continue to say we are. And you're exaggerating again. We never said the Aliens weren't a threat. We've just said a Thing could beat one. And the Thing didn't go into hibernation because of "a bunch of snow fall", it went into some hibernation because it was damaged from crashing a f**king space ship into the planet and clawing its way out of a tunnel of ice said ship created on impact and making it to the frozen surface where there was no life and no warmth to sustain itself on. When the Aliens do better in a similar situation I'll concede the point.
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with what tactics humans would use against these creatures, as humans aren't a part of this fight.
And I am on the Thing website. Why can't I be here too? I love Aliens. I love Predators. I love the franchise. I just happen to think, after reviewing the information, that the Thing would win this fight.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
and continue to regurgitate the same arguments over and over again regardless of the fact that the rest of us have come up with several ways around all of them, if not refuted them outright.
The reason I mention them over and over again is because you haven't refuted them. Every example you bring up with aliens losing is when they have not really built up a hive, and taken over an ecosystem. For example the Predators do not go out of there way to deal with Aliens that do have a planet wide hive, if they do it is a new hive, even then the prefer hunting freshly made Xenomorphs more than likely because of the problems they would face if they did fight a hive prepared for them that has use the bio-imperative.
Actually, the Preds go out of their way to set up planet-wide Alien hives so they can then hunt them. See: the original AvP comics.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
In your own words, You are a troll. You cherry-pick the expanded universe to suit your tastes and have taken some of its features out of context and blown them out of proportion, while ignoring others brought up in opposition to your viewpoint. You are stubbornly clinging to your arguments without even considering that you might be wrong.
This whole statment is false, not only that but you have done exactly what you are saying I did. Like for example the thing can spread just through a finger print left on a wall. Oh and my favorite one, the Thing could leave earth IF THE HUMANS LEFT IT ALONE. ::)
Who the hell said anything about finger prints on a wall? it certainly wasn't me. Seriously, where the hell did that come from?
And of course the Thing could leave if people left it alone. What the hell does that have to do with anything?
QuoteSorry, I had to wait till I stopped laughing to respond to this one.
Glad it wasn't just me.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
No they're not though. ??? How do you know he's dead from a bacterial infection? Can you provide a source?
Someone says it in the commentary at or near the end of AvP:R They also said they wanted everyone to be executed at the end but fox said that that scene would make the movie to dark.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
Without knowing how the Thing operates you don't know how it would work. Just because it works one way on one organism doesn't mean it works the same way on ALL organisms. Assuming that is a huge logical fallacy.
Its worked on more than one organism, humans, predators, other hurd and predatory animals.
By the way without know how the Xenomorph orperates how are you so sure that it will be assimilated...? Seems from the get go you Thing fans are very sure of what it can do, anything Xenomorph related I practically have to have everything I mentioned written with the Thing in the same story.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
But that doesn't prove anything, that's an assumption at best. Seriously it's not that complicated.
I can say the same thing about your comment here. It would take a hell of alot of telepathic power to command, all the Xenomorphs in the universe, AND be able to telepathically take over other alien species, on top of that take control of a lot of them all at once.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
el oh el
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Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
It's also a gestalt entity, which means its mind could very well operate differently from a "conventional" creature. You just don't know.
The Xenomorphs brain works like no conventional creature yet the Queen Mother controls other aliens other than Xenomorphs...
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
Yeah and the movie doesn't contradict what the script, novelization, and comic adaptation say: that the Alien was killed at the end of the movie.
Its the other way round the Movie is primary source for the one story. Are you going to tell me there was a pilot in Aliens, or that their was no pilot in Alien?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
No, Xenogenesis shows them screwing up on one planet, but other than that their gear worked just fine and they killed plenty of Aliens.
Their "juice" outright dissolved Aliens. It made them fall apart.
Also I don't think you know what "fallacy" means.
They failed to take the planet plain and simple, also said juice weapon works on anything, and would be very lethal against the Thing.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
How do you know this? (hint: you don't)
The number of cells in a Thing organism is dependent on the amount of bio-mass in the Thing at a given time. Saying "there are more Aliens than Thing cells" is absolute nonsense. Like it literally does not make sense.
I will say the same thing I said to your best-est buddy. The Aliens killed or nearly killed all life in the universe. They have been doing this since before man could fly. When they take a planet over that has a pro-life ecosystem, they keep the ecosystem going so they can keep making more of themselves. Planets that they have had control over for awhile will have large armies of Xenomorphs. Xenomorph Prime had so-many Xenomorphs that the ground could not be seen only the mountains. That's going to be anywhere between billions and trillions. Now take in mind they are NOT just attack humans they control Lots of planets, the galaxy, the UNIVERSE is freaking huge. Taking that in mind I am willing to say she commands more Xenomorphs than a single Thing has cells.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
If this were at all true, Earth would never have been reclaimed and no Aliens would ever die in any of the movies ever.
Like I said almost on the same level. But you know what you are totally right the Thing is so dangerous that it has overcome its enemies and left the planet earth. At least that is what you make it sound like it could do. Why does it keep getting barred in snow...? Why has it not just taken the initiative and caped every freaking human it sees, assimilate them and then leave earth?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
Yes he was, the filmmakers are quite clear on it in the commentary for the deleted scene.
Something doe'nt sound right with your comment. How about you show me the commentary.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
It's similar to Windows getting killed in the Carpenter movie, and then he starts to move around as the Thing takes over his corpse's bio-mass, or why the black guy gets burned in the prequel after he dies, because he'd been stabbed by the Thing and the characters didn't want to risk his body getting up and walking around after the Thing took over.
How do you know he was killed?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
Yeah and it outright kills Aliens. What's your point?
It will stun the creature from the pain. Xenomorphs not so much, ps those stabing weapons your takening about you know good and well they are not normal stabbing weapons.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
Humans can survive jets of liquid nitrogen, too. Doesn't mean it's pleasant, but it isn't automatically fatal.
Bull
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
Submerge an Alien in liquid nitrogen and it'll get frozen plenty good - in fact it happens in 'Aliens: Salvation',
Unless you are referring to some kind of hypersleep this is wrong.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
'Aliens: Glass Corridor',
Unless you are referring to some kind of hypersleep this is wrong.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
and 'Aliens: Cargo' (I think) off the top of my head.
Unless you are referring to some kind of hypersleep this is wrong.
A browny was hit with a jet of liquidnitergen in Resurrection, just because of the nature of the Thing I am sure liquidnitergen is lethal to it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
I don't know what "Carrier bf" is, but the split-face Thing got burned alive and then turned around and infected Bennings in the Carpenter movie. The Dog-Thing got burned and Blair outright says it's not dead.
They didn't burn it long enough. Napalm would have taken care of the job.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
What's your point? The Thing still survived all those things.
Those things cause the Thing pain, pain distracts it. Acid can cause it enough pain to leave its target alone, unless of course it is a Prateraion or other type of alien that uses alot of acid.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
Can you provide a quote?
You can watch the movie can't you...?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
]Nothing you said changed anything I said. ???
And a lot of those Predators weren't killed by the Aliens. Hell, War opens with a group of Predators (and a human) raiding an Alien hive, stomping some Alien ass, and capturing a Queen. By your reasoning, that shouldn't have happened.
That is what we call plot armor. The main character is the only reason the Predator were successful, and the same time it also because of the main character that the Aliens are the last one standing in the battle at the end.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
Because it's an extraterrestrial and we don't know how it works, I assumed that would be common sense.
You're the one claiming it would have an effect, by all means prove it. :)
Oh yeah I see what you mean, it works on every other alien and or human in the series BUT because it the Thing we are talking about, its immune, gotcha ::) By the way your portrayal of the Thing is ridicules. I didn't say much about it at the beginning but since I let you get away with it long enough, I am tired of your inflation of the Thing abilities, it is not as infectious as you say, for example having on bit of ash from a incinerated thing will not infect you. Not one time have I seen a thing assimilate an evergreen ether. From what is said about the Thing by you Thing fans the only reason it losses is because it suffers from the same amount of p.i.s. that darkseid does.
QuoteA browny was hit with a jet of liquidnitergen in Resurrection, just because of the nature of the Thing I am sure liquidnitergen is lethal to it.
Big whoop - it just breaks off a bit of itself not covered in liquid
nitrogen.
This f**king thread.
I know, right?
It's not actually the fault of the thread...
You've got a point there.
How is liquid nitrogen going to kill the thing? It would only stop it but its still alive.
CONGRATULATIONS! YOU JUST REALIZED ALL OF THIS, AAAAALL OF THIS DISCUSSION IS *GASP* ES-PE-CULATION!
we can't f**king know. you don't know if the bio imperative will work, or if it won't, because it hasn't faced the Thing, or any equivalent to it in the stories it was featured, but a weird, non active mold already did, so chances are, a lifeform that acts as a DICEASE will. you don't know if the alien can't or can't be completely infected, because there's INCONSISTENCIES! OH MY GOSH! THE HUMAN BODY HAS METALS TOO! NO WAY!
you can't claim the alien queen can f**king telephatically control the thing, because there's more "thing" in a thing than aliens in the universe, you said it yourself, there's trillions of cells and shit. she might aswell control machines and amoebas too. has she?
and finally, it is indisputable, and you keep avoiding this, that the thing can INFECT MORE, and ACTS. FASTER. drop two aliens and a thing in a city. the aliens will snatch ten or so people and a bunch of dogs and make eggs of half. it will take hours for the eggs to be ready. it will take a day for the new aliens to hatch. in that same time lapse, there will be dozens of thingified monsters, and hundreds, if not thousands of people, pets, pests, plants and god knows f**king what roaming around being slowly taken over without suspecting it.
the next day, the whole city will be things. meanwhile, the aliens will have barely multiplied by five. and they can't reproduce further because every infectable lifeform is already a thing. and what are they gonna do? fight their way out of the thing infected space? pfft. even if ten things die killing one alien, all the aliens still die, there's always more thing. oh bother.
but let's asume they are like the best f**king aliens ever and they manage to get to the next city. whelp. it's infected too, because there's a hundred percent chance that someone infected left that city, or sneezed on someone who did, or sent contaminated material, or a hundred different variables. it doesn't matter. and the city next to it too. and all the cities within a day of travel by car, and all the countries within 12 hours of flight. the thing doesn't need to move. the world will carry it. it's a dicease and a monster at the same time. remember the spreading of the H1N1? or the bird flu, the black pest, or any zombie pandemic for that matter. the thing doesn't NEED to do anything but let the world carry it around and pop out and absolutely slaughter everyone who's not yet one of them, which will be the minority of the human and animal population. it will be more like the body snatchers than Dead Space.
and all this will happen in a month tops. meanwhile, the aliens have barely built a hive, and have next to no increase in population because there's simply not even a f**king cat or dog left. ALL. IS. THING. asume it, even if the aliens are much nastier, they will not get the chance to prove it. there will simply not be anything left for them to infect.
Quote from: Sgt. Apone on Feb 27, 2012, 04:17:35 AM
How is liquid nitrogen going to kill the thing? It would only stop it but its still alive.
right. it was frozen when it was found first, it's a fact it needs to be molecularly destroyed by combustion to be stopped(but not erradicated).
He raises a good point. When Blair said it would take however long it would take, that was in 1982. We have vastly superior ways of getting around the planet now. The Thing could plant a carrier on each continent within a day.
and imagine the future. if they can travel FTL they might go from Hong Kong to Barcelona in about 20 minutes by the time of aliens.
you could take a ride to the moon with spare change.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
This still doesn't mean it's an instant kill.
Now your just grasping at straws. You have seen what just Little bit of acid can do, do you realize how much damage that amount of acid would cause to a Thing.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
1) learn to spell. It's Praetorian or Prætorian.
They way is spelled lights my browser up, so no I will spell it the way I did before.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
2) you're using game mechanics as story canon again. Stop that.
No I am not it is in the lore that they can do what I just wrote, so get over it.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
Guess what? The last time I saw an alien get shot in the face from that range, it died. Big difference between "shot in the face, recoiled and shrugged it off" and "shot in the face. dead."
No you didn't see an Alien die from one 12 gauge round at short range. Never ever has it happened in the movies.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
Also, you're using the term "pain tolerance" incorrectly.
No just no.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
No, my logic is simply not overstating their abilities. I'm simply stating that they're capable of losing, and do, frequently, and backing it up with evidence. Your overplaying of their capabilities seems to suggest this shouldn't happen.
They do not lose frequently, if they lost frequently, they would be of no threat to beings living in the Alien Predator universe. They would be a failure as a weapon, W.Y. and other companies, would be incompetent to want a Xenomorph as a weapon. Alas your comment is incorrect they have won a lot more times than you are admitting. Here is a re post of all the Alien victorys.
Just to name a few story's that end in an Alien victory, AvP:2, AvP(movie), AvP:Extinction (not including yellows), Aliens: Hive, Aliens: Stronghold, Aliens vs Predator: War, Aliens: Xenogenesis, Aliens: Purge, Aliens: Elder Gods, Aliens: Apocalypse, Aliens: Rogue, Aliens: Outbreak, Aliens: Nightmare Asylum. Most of the other story's are draws, the main villains being people themselves.
Definition of frequently
fre·quent·ly (frkwnt-l)
adv.
At frequent intervals; often.
I will point out that the Thing frequently is defeated and unable to escape earth, and suffers from p.i.s.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Oh for f**k's sake. That's not how this works. Stop doing this, it's childish.
Sorry, I had to wait till I stopped laughing to respond to this one. ::)
1) This isn't comicvine. Cry some more.
2) we're not breaking canon, we're simply not ignoring the parts we don't like.[/quote]
So your ignoring the parts you don't like. Well that solves all my problems, I an just ignore the Thing being able to shape change and assimilate creatures. You know what I think the Thing is exactly like Richard Simmons, both in intelligence and physical capabilities.
On a serious note you have made this an non serious battle, which for the most part I played along with your buddys stupid overinflated capabilities, and your lack of belief in what the Aliens can do. I see no reason in the continuation of this battle to even listen too you.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
That's actually the first time this has been stated. Thanks for filling us in. ;)
I still contend the Things would win. They can multiply at an exponentially larger and faster rate than the xeno's can,
They maybe able to multiply quicker however there is only so much biomass they can absorb in the galaxy and or universe, till the only thing left is the Xenomorph and the Thing. With the combination of the Queen Mother and bio-imperative, the aliens will prevail in this war of annihilation.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
and since a single Thing vs a Xeno hive results in a Thing win, I can easily extrapolate the results from there.
How is the Thing going to assimilate a Xenomorph? Have you seen a Thing assimilate a Xenomorph, a Xenomorph after all is alien compared to humans.
Oh my response to your comment above this comment still stands.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Are you f**king kidding me?
So Have the Things. Extrapolation again results in Thing numbers expanding far more rapidly than Aliens, accounting for a difference in Thing cells to Aliens that I don't even have numbers high enough to express. Get over it.
Do you have any prof that the Thing has assimilated most of universe as you say here?
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Oh so Ripley is alive explain this? Newt is alive explain how. Hicks is alive explain how. Lex is alive explain how. The ones from AvPR, and that's just from the movies. The directors said the wanted them all to die, and more than likely to keep the coverup under raps the Americans killed those people. They definitely didn't exile them to Novotel St. Petersburg Centre.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Ripley killed herself. Newt drowned. Hicks was mutilated in the crash. None of them were killed by Aliens.
No but they died because of the Aliens.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Lex is totally alive, why wouldn't she be?
Oh I don't know maybe because a lot of her thermal gear is gone, she is in the Antarctic, and aways from the boat.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Same goes for Dallas, Rickey, Kelly, & Molly. They were all alive last I checked.
By the way, don't try to paraphrase what directors want and then discount scripts and novelizations. It's just hypocritical.
It is not hypocritical. P.s. the director said that Lex froze to death too.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Your arguments are refuted time and time again.
You keep ignoring them is more like it, or throwing out things like "have you seen and alien use mutagenic-acid on a Thing" I can ask a similar question, have you seen a Thing assimilate a Xenomorph? No, well I guess they can't.[/quote]
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Then we agree that you're pulling stuff out of your ass when you claim a xenomorph couldn't be assimilated? We're at least trying to logic our way through it. You, on the other hand, seem to clinging to some misbegotten definition of "organic" as a defense.
No where did I hint at or say I was making stuff up, or flat out making stuff up. You on the other hand are trying to twist the facts around and as you said "ignoring what you don't like" so its no wonder you are breaking canon, you just do want to except it because it will ruin your hypothesis about the Thing wining.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
We've ignored no canon material. I'm not sure why you continue to say we are.
Right...
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
we're not breaking canon, we're simply ignoring the parts we don't like.
Bull...
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
And you're exaggerating again. We never said the Aliens weren't a threat. We've just said a Thing could beat one. And the Thing didn't go into hibernation because of "a bunch of snow fall", it went into some hibernation because it was damaged from crashing a f**king space ship into the planet and clawing its way out of a tunnel of ice said ship created on impact and making it to the frozen surface where there was no life and no warmth to sustain itself on.
Remember when you were telling me about that mediocre mmorpg game based of the Thing that barely any hardcore gamer has heard of? You told me the main character trapped the Thing yet again in a big layer of ice and snow. What did it do after being trapped? Not leave earth thats for sure.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
When the Aliens do better in a similar situation I'll concede the point.
Oh is that all ok, a human based warrior punched through armored quartz which has a compression p.s.i. of 160,000. Ice is no where near that. A Ravager will destroy the armor of a Space ship, I am pretty sure a Ravager can do the same as well.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with what tactics humans would use against these creatures, as humans aren't a part of this fight.
Let me refresh your memory, you said "alien barely ever win against humans" so I pointed out that the Thing get its but kicked by humans that are no where near as advanced as the humans Xenomorphs face. You like to point out bullets can kill Xenomorphs, which is some what true, however it wont be working on a lot of none human xenomorphs, or Ravagers, or Queens/ Empresses/War Empresses, unless its really really heavy caliber, it would be abusrd to think that you can kill a Xenomorph Whale Warrior with even heavy anti-tank weaponry, or at least not fast.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
And I am on the Thing website. Why can't I be here too? I love Aliens. I love Predators. I love the franchise. I just happen to think, after reviewing the information, that the Thing would win this fight.
Pretty easy to come to that conclusion after saying you don't use information you don't like. But if you did use every bit of canon information on both side you will see the Thing is toast. Unless of course it just says hell with this and avoids the Xenomorphs.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Actually, the Preds go out of their way to set up planet-wide Alien hives so they can then hunt them. See: the original AvP comics.
Actually they don't they avoid using the Queen because they want the aliens to grow in numbers and they don't want the aliens to use bio-imperative, no Queen no true bio-imperative.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Who the hell said anything about finger prints on a wall? it certainly wasn't me. Seriously, where the hell did that come from?
One of your teammates, the one with the face from Prometheus as his avatar. Don't you people keep track of what you guys say, I was assuming you all instant message each-other to make strategic attacks on the Xenomorphs, choosing what to say and debating what will be effect with each other. This is irregular if you guys are not doing this.
QuoteP.s. the director said that Lex froze to death too.
No he didn't, he specifically shows her walking towards one of the still-running snow tractors.
QuoteNo you didn't see an Alien die from one 12 gauge round at short range. Never ever has it happened in the movies.
Hicks put a shotgun in an Alien's mouth and blew the top of its head off.
Feedest ye not yon trolle.
and you hear aliens dying when he opened fire before, from Hudsons and Vasquez' feed.
if those aliens weren't dying then the sentry turrets didn't kill any either.
Quote from: SM on Feb 27, 2012, 05:15:39 AM
Feedest ye not yon trolle.
don't you wanna see how far the rabbit hole goes?
soon enough we will be showcasing this thread in a museum, along with Colin's posts.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 05:18:05 AM
don't you wanna see how far the rabbit hole goes?
It's getting tiresome, I'm not sure I want to anymore.
I guess that means I "forfeit this match"? I don't even know anymore.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 05:18:05 AM
and you hear aliens dying when he opened fire before, from Hudsons and Vasquez' feed.
if those aliens weren't dying then the sentry turrets didn't kill any either.
Quote from: SM on Feb 27, 2012, 05:15:39 AM
Feedest ye not yon trolle.
don't you wanna see how far the rabbit hole goes?
soon enough we will be showcasing this thread in a museum, along with Colin's posts.
Hadn't thought of that.
Carry on.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
CONGRATULATIONS! YOU JUST REALIZED ALL OF THIS, AAAAALL OF THIS DISCUSSION IS *GASP* ES-PE-CULATION!
No actually because you are only 17 years old you could not tell I was being sarcastic. I was insulting you and your tactic you were using, saying that the Alien actually has to be seen doing said attack and or things to the Thing to actually count while with your team everything said about the Thing goes, and will steam roll the Xenomorph. Which is wrong by the way.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
we can't f**king know.
Says who? Their abilities a detailed enough to make a correct conclusion of what will happen.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
you don't know if the bio imperative will work, or if it won't,
So I don't know if it wont work and I don't know if it wont work ??? Don't you mean I don't know if it will work, or if it will fail? Because I do know the outcome it will succeed bio-imperative.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
because it hasn't faced the Thing, or any equivalent to it in the stories it was featured, but a weird, non active mold already did, so chances are, a lifeform that acts as a DICEASE will.
Couple things about this 1) Dr. Church said they were not normal Xenomorphs and 2) They probable will adapt to it.
The same can be said about the Thing since poison works on it that definitely will mean aliens venoms work on it including the one that turns body mass and fluids black with decay, and there are a lot of Xenomorphs with various different poisons.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
you don't know if the alien can't or can't be completely infected, because there's INCONSISTENCIES! OH MY GOSH! THE HUMAN BODY HAS METALS TOO! NO WAY!
Hey this might come as a surprise to you but every metal in the human body is organic. I do know the Alien can't be infected, its inorganic, as standard has acid for blood, bio-imperative.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
you can't claim the alien queen can f**king telephatically control the thing, because there's more "thing" in a thing than aliens in the universe, you said it yourself, there's trillions of cells and shit.
There is that many Aliens just on Xenomorph prime kid.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
she might aswell control machines and amoebas too. has she?
Well as I pointed out Xenomorphs are bioriods, so yes she has controlled machines, as for amoebas, not that I am aware of but the Xenomorphs do use a lot of micro-organisms that they grow themselves...
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
and finally, it is indisputable, and you keep avoiding this,
No it is of little tactical importance since the Xenomorphs already number beyond trillion all together. The thing will be throwing itself into the meat grinder, intrenched defenders.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
that the thing can INFECT MORE, and ACTS. FASTER.
Depends on the breed of Xenomorph and how it is evolved. There was going to be and still could be a kind that has a conversion field that forcefully mutates people into xenomorphs. Other than that Male xenomorphs can quickly make 2ndary xenomorphs.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
drop two aliens and a thing in a city. the aliens will snatch ten or so people and a bunch of dogs and make eggs of half. it will take hours for the eggs to be ready. it will take a day for the new aliens to hatch.
No it just takes minutes for the aliens to burst, or are you doing the same thing as the rest of your team picking and choosing what you want to use as canon?
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
in that same time lapse, there will be dozens of thingified monsters, and hundreds, if not thousands of people, pets, pests, plants and god knows f**king what roaming around being slowly taken over without suspecting it.
the next day, the whole city will be things. meanwhile, the aliens will have barely multiplied by five. and they can't reproduce further because every infectable lifeform is already a thing. and what are they gonna do? fight their way out of the thing infected space? pfft. even if ten things die killing one alien, all the aliens still die, there's always more thing. oh bother.
but let's asume they are like the best f**king aliens ever and they manage to get to the next city. whelp. it's infected too, because there's a hundred percent chance that someone infected left that city, or sneezed on someone who did, or sent contaminated material, or a hundred different variables. it doesn't matter. and the city next to it too. and all the cities within a day of travel by car, and all the countries within 12 hours of flight. the thing doesn't need to move. the world will carry it. it's a dicease and a monster at the same time. remember the spreading of the H1N1? or the bird flu, the black pest, or any zombie pandemic for that matter. the thing doesn't NEED to do anything but let the world carry it around and pop out and absolutely slaughter everyone who's not yet one of them, which will be the minority of the human and animal population. it will be more like the body snatchers than Dead Space.
and all this will happen in a month tops. meanwhile, the aliens have barely built a hive, and have next to no increase in population because there's simply not even a f**king cat or dog left. ALL. IS. THING. asume it, even if the aliens are much nastier, they will not get the chance to prove it. there will simply not be anything left for them to infect. [/quote]
Nice little hypothesis you got their. But you forgot that the Aliens already control somany planets and have such vast numbers that in a war of attrition the Thing will lose.
Ps the Thing is not as infectious as you like to think. Were has it sneezed on someone and infected them? Anyway the character in in the movie in charge of taken care of the dogs, made lots of physical contact with the thing dog and never got infected. How do you account for this?
How is the Thing going to infect creatures that live on extremely hostile planets, has the Thing been shown going on said hostile planets. The Xenomorph does not have limitation on what planet it goes on.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 04:21:11 AM
right. it was frozen when it was found first, it's a fact it needs to be molecularly destroyed by combustion to be stopped(but not erradicated).
The same amount of liquid nitrogen that the Xenomorph in resurrection was exposed too would have critically wounded a Thing. PS you do realize that Acids affect things on a molecular level? And yet you question if it work.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 05:13:43 AM
No he didn't, he specifically shows her walking towards one of the still-running snow tractors.
Yes he did how about you listen to the commentary again.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 05:13:43 AM
Hicks put a shotgun in an Alien's mouth and blew the top of its head off.
That is known as POINT BLANK RANGE.
Quote from: KingAngel ofthe Outergulf on Feb 27, 2012, 05:10:54 AM
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
This still doesn't mean it's an instant kill.
Now your just grasping at straws. You have seen what just Little bit of acid can do, do you realize how much damage that amount of acid would cause to a Thing.
No, I'm just tired of you being stubborn. My responses will be more articulate when yours are more thought out.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
1) learn to spell. It's Praetorian or Prætorian.
They way is spelled lights my browser up, so no I will spell it the way I did before.
...I'm not sure what to say to this. You're willfully misspelling stuff because your browser doesn't recognize the words? You realize you can right-click and add it to your dictionary right?
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
2) you're using game mechanics as story canon again. Stop that.
No I am not it is in the lore that they can do what I just wrote, so get over it.
You keep saying that, and we keep proving you wrong, so get over it.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
Guess what? The last time I saw an alien get shot in the face from that range, it died. Big difference between "shot in the face, recoiled and shrugged it off" and "shot in the face. dead."
No you didn't see an Alien die from one 12 gauge round at short range. Never ever has it happened in the movies.
Aliens. Hicks shotguns an Alien in the face. Stop ignoring canon.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
Also, you're using the term "pain tolerance" incorrectly.
No just no.
Actually yes.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 03:15:29 AM
No, my logic is simply not overstating their abilities. I'm simply stating that they're capable of losing, and do, frequently, and backing it up with evidence. Your overplaying of their capabilities seems to suggest this shouldn't happen.
They do not lose frequently, if they lost frequently, they would be of no threat to beings living in the Alien Predator universe. They would be a failure as a weapon, W.Y. and other companies, would be incompetent to want a Xenomorph as a weapon. Alas your comment is incorrect they have won a lot more times than you are admitting. Here is a re post of all the Alien victorys.
Just to name a few story's that end in an Alien victory, AvP:2, AvP(movie), AvP:Extinction (not including yellows), Aliens: Hive, Aliens: Stronghold, Aliens vs Predator: War, Aliens: Xenogenesis, Aliens: Purge, Aliens: Elder Gods, Aliens: Apocalypse, Aliens: Rogue, Aliens: Outbreak, Aliens: Nightmare Asylum. Most of the other story's are draws, the main villains being people themselves.
Definition of frequently
fre·quent·ly (frkwnt-l)
adv.
At frequent intervals; often.
I will point out that the Thing frequently is defeated and unable to escape earth, and suffers from p.i.s.
I'm getting tired of arguing this point with you. Even if they only lose half the time, or less than half the time, they still loose a bunch. The point I was trying to make is that they're not unstoppable and lose a
noticeable amount of the time.
I notice you've begun to stop arguing my points and are instead arguing the
semantics of how I phrased them.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Sorry, I had to wait till I stopped laughing to respond to this one. ::)
1) This isn't comicvine. Cry some more.
2) we're not breaking canon, we're simply not ignoring the parts we don't like.
So your ignoring the parts you don't like. Well that solves all my problems, I an just ignore the Thing being able to shape change and assimilate creatures. You know what I think the Thing is exactly like Richard Simmons, both in intelligence and physical capabilities.
On a serious note you have made this an non serious battle, which for the most part I played along with your buddys stupid overinflated capabilities, and your lack of belief in what the Aliens can do. I see no reason in the continuation of this battle to even listen too you.
Your reading comprehension sucks. Go read what I said again. I said we're NOT ignoring the parts we don't like. For f**k's sake.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
That's actually the first time this has been stated. Thanks for filling us in. ;)
I still contend the Things would win. They can multiply at an exponentially larger and faster rate than the xeno's can,
They maybe able to multiply quicker however there is only so much biomass they can absorb in the galaxy and or universe, till the only thing left is the Xenomorph and the Thing. With the combination of the Queen Mother and bio-imperative, the aliens will prevail in this war of annihilation.
You know what? We've proved you wrong on this so many f**king times it's not even funny anymore.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
and since a single Thing vs a Xeno hive results in a Thing win, I can easily extrapolate the results from there.
How is the Thing going to assimilate a Xenomorph? Have you seen a Thing assimilate a Xenomorph, a Xenomorph after all is alien compared to humans.
Oh my response to your comment above this comment still stands.
I wasn't even talking about assimilation. Even if a Thing can't assimilate a xeno, they win by sheer numbers.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Are you f**king kidding me?
So Have the Things. Extrapolation again results in Thing numbers expanding far more rapidly than Aliens, accounting for a difference in Thing cells to Aliens that I don't even have numbers high enough to express. Get over it.
Do you have any prof that the Thing has assimilated most of universe as you say here?
I said I was extrapolating. Your reading comprehension has failed you again.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AMQuote
Oh so Ripley is alive explain this? Newt is alive explain how. Hicks is alive explain how. Lex is alive explain how. The ones from AvPR, and that's just from the movies. The directors said the wanted them all to die, and more than likely to keep the coverup under raps the Americans killed those people. They definitely didn't exile them to Novotel St. Petersburg Centre.
Ripley killed herself. Newt drowned. Hicks was mutilated in the crash. None of them were killed by Aliens.
No but they died because of the Aliens.
Not the same and now you're just grasping at straws.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Lex is totally alive, why wouldn't she be?
Oh I don't know maybe because a lot of her thermal gear is gone, she is in the Antarctic, and aways from the boat.
So you're conveniently ignoring the vehicles visible in the pan-out shot that would allow her to drive back to the boat? Stop ignoring canon.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Same goes for Dallas, Rickey, Kelly, & Molly. They were all alive last I checked.
By the way, don't try to paraphrase what directors want and then discount scripts and novelizations. It's just hypocritical.
It is not hypocritical. P.s. the director said that Lex froze to death too.
I am genuinely interested to hear where he says this.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AMQuote
You keep ignoring them is more like it, or throwing out things like "have you seen and alien use mutagenic-acid on a Thing" I can ask a similar question, have you seen a Thing assimilate a Xenomorph? No, well I guess they can't.
Then we agree that you're pulling stuff out of your ass when you claim a xenomorph couldn't be assimilated? We're at least trying to logic our way through it. You, on the other hand, seem to clinging to some misbegotten definition of "organic" as a defense.
No where did I hint at or say I was making stuff up, or flat out making stuff up. You on the other hand are trying to twist the facts around and as you said "ignoring what you don't like" so its no wonder you are breaking canon, you just do want to except it because it will ruin your hypothesis about the Thing wining.
That's three reading comprehension fails, but as this is the same as a previous one, I'm willing to overlook it. Again, I'm not ignoring anything.
And you know what, I'm not actually that attached to the theory that the Thing will win, it's just that the evidence heavily supports that outcome. There's no emotional investment in it. If there were actual logical evidence I could get behind that the Alien would win, I would support that outcome. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of evidence that the Aliens will put up a hell of a fight, but the match-up seems to come out in the Thing's favor.
It's not personal. Don't try to make it so.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
We've ignored no canon material. I'm not sure why you continue to say we are.
Right...
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
we're not breaking canon, we're simply ignoring the parts we don't like.
Bull...
Holy Shit did you just deliberately misquote me? You did! Wow. It's like you're not even trying anymore...
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
And you're exaggerating again. We never said the Aliens weren't a threat. We've just said a Thing could beat one. And the Thing didn't go into hibernation because of "a bunch of snow fall", it went into some hibernation because it was damaged from crashing a f**king space ship into the planet and clawing its way out of a tunnel of ice said ship created on impact and making it to the frozen surface where there was no life and no warmth to sustain itself on.
Remember when you were telling me about that mediocre mmorpg game based of the Thing that barely any hardcore gamer has heard of? You told me the main character trapped the Thing yet again in a big layer of ice and snow. What did it do after being trapped? Not leave earth thats for sure.
So I'm not sure what leaving the earth has to do with the hibernation stuff you quoted me about. We don't know what happens next because nobodies released anything that happens chronologically afterwards.
And why the f**k should it matter how well known the game is? Elitist much? I notice that's the second time you've attacked me or my sources instead of responding to the argument at hand.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
When the Aliens do better in a similar situation I'll concede the point.
Oh is that all ok, a human based warrior punched through armored quartz which has a compression p.s.i. of 160,000. Ice is no where near that. A Ravager will destroy the armor of a Space ship, I am pretty sure a Ravager can do the same as well.
Now strand one on a frozen continent with no potential hosts after fighting its way through a space ship that's just crashed through a glacier.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with what tactics humans would use against these creatures, as humans aren't a part of this fight.
Let me refresh your memory, you said "alien barely ever win against humans" so I pointed out that the Thing get its but kicked by humans that are no where near as advanced as the humans Xenomorphs face. You like to point out bullets can kill Xenomorphs, which is some what true, however it wont be working on a lot of none human xenomorphs, or Ravagers, or Queens/ Empresses/War Empresses, unless its really really heavy caliber, it would be abusrd to think that you can kill a Xenomorph Whale Warrior with even heavy anti-tank weaponry, or at least not fast.
Fair enough. And it will certainly work on non-human-born xeno's or else the Colonial Marines died rather quickly in pretty much all the AvP games and their campaigns were just pre-death hallucinations.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
And I am on the Thing website. Why can't I be here too? I love Aliens. I love Predators. I love the franchise. I just happen to think, after reviewing the information, that the Thing would win this fight.
Pretty easy to come to that conclusion after saying you don't use information you don't like. But if you did use every bit of canon information on both side you will see the Thing is toast. Unless of course it just says hell with this and avoids the Xenomorphs.
Again, never said that. That's 3 instances of you basing your argument on that same misinformation, but I'm beginning to think it was deliberate, considering that you actually edited the line when you quoted me earlier.
And I have reasoned the argument on both sides coming to my conclusion. You however seem to be lacking in one side of the argument, seeing as how many times I had to point out Thing EU sources to you.
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Actually, the Preds go out of their way to set up planet-wide Alien hives so they can then hunt them. See: the original AvP comics.
Actually they don't they avoid using the Queen because they want the aliens to grow in numbers and they don't want the aliens to use bio-imperative, no Queen no true bio-imperative.
I thought you said that Queen Mothers were connected to all the Aliens everywhere? If this is true, why should it matter if there's a Queen on the planet or not?
QuoteQuote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
Who the hell said anything about finger prints on a wall? it certainly wasn't me. Seriously, where the hell did that come from?
One of your teammates, the one with the face from Prometheus as his avatar. Don't you people keep track of what you guys say, I was assuming you all instant message each-other to make strategic attacks on the Xenomorphs, choosing what to say and debating what will be effect with each other. This is irregular if you guys are not doing this.
Really? You think this is a coordinated attack? You think this is 'Team Thing' vs 'Team Alien'? Wow. That's kind of hilarious actually.
No, we're not IM'ing each other. At least I'm not, no idea about the others. As far as I know, we're just a group of people heavily dedicated to a hard-core AvP community who
still think the Thing would win this fight because we have the ability to actually look at evidence and draw unbiased conclusions from it.
Quote
No actually because you are only 17 years old you could not tell I was being sarcastic.
yeah.
it totally must be that. nice argument by the way. i'm going to bed now, don't get any smarter.
QuoteNo actually because you are only 17 years old you could not tell I was being sarcastic.
If you're going to make statements like that you're going to have to tell us how old
you are.
Really bad troll, and shame on all of you for taking the bait. :P
Epic troll more like.
No one is messaging each other kingangel, you're being insanely paranoid now and none of us as far as i know are team anything. we are just not biased, emotionally invested insane fanatics of the xenomorph or the thing for that matter. its simply logic.
1 A thing: claws, tentacles, super-strength (at least compared to most creatures) shape-shifting, able to detach body parts, able to generate other mouths and claws, immune to bullets and other physical weapons, is very intelligent, can heal very fast, semi-weakness to fire (Its cells are still alive)
2. a Xenomorph: strong, fast, claws, tail, inner jaw, acid spit, weakness to fire, Vulnerable to guns, vulnerable to sharp objects that can impale them, can get squashed.
Obviously the thing would win but you're too pro-alien and arrogant to see other's point of view and the fact the xenomorphs are fallible.
Lex was walking towards the vehicle and so its obvious she survived, the sequel has survivors too but you were using speculation to say they weren't.
Also stop calling a debate as a fight or match, this isn't boxing. saying that though, you have a habit of turning civil debates (which is what is normally done around the forums ) into an argument which is full of ranting, frustration and emotional outbursts, a big no no in my book, so i guess thanks to you this is no longer a civil debate.
Editing someone else's post and using it to make it look like you're winning is very bad form, anyone editing other's posts to manipulate a situation in their favour should be banned as its not only lying but quite malevolent not to mention its cheating.
so as you say "you forfeit the match"
Quote from: Kriszilla on Feb 27, 2012, 10:19:44 AM
Really bad troll, and shame on all of you for taking the bait. :P
I'm actually having a hard time figuring if he's actually a troll or not. On the one hand, trolls usually go for the lowest possible effort versus the biggest possible response, and he's been writing a lot of huge multi-thousand-word effortposts that actually reference a lot of sources (even if he does so badly and often incorrectly).
On the other hand, he's been so aggressively ignorant that I just can't help but feel like it's intentional.
Oh well.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 04:09:48 PM
Quote from: Kriszilla on Feb 27, 2012, 10:19:44 AM
Really bad troll, and shame on all of you for taking the bait. :P
I'm actually having a hard time figuring if he's actually a troll or not. On the one hand, trolls usually go for the lowest possible effort versus the biggest possible response, and he's been writing a lot of huge multi-thousand-word effortposts that actually reference a lot of sources (even if he does so badly and often incorrectly).
On the other hand, he's been so aggressively ignorant that I just can't help but feel like it's intentional.
Oh well.
I feel sorry for the people at the other avp wiki, they have to deal with him there all the time, and since its now adminless, i read a post month or two back saying he now considers himself an admin more or less even though he is not one.
He has so far shown arrogance, disrespect and very bad behaviour (for editing someone else's post) he refuses to take other people's thoughts and opinions into consideration, he is too biased and emotionally involved and i get the feeling he thinks he is better than us.
I don't think he is a troll exactly more like a "fan dumb" trope, the type of FD is "toxic genius" with a bit of "wilfully blind" basically it means that these type of fans refuse to accept others opinions no matter how strong or logical even if they are fact, they believe they are right and smart while everyone else is stupid. So i doubt anyone here will convince him otherwise, he genuinely believes he is right in every way.
anyway in terms of the majority, we believe the thing would win against a xenomorph, so that should settle the debate or should i say argument? we have already established strength and weaknesses of the creatures and so i say, the thing wins, debate over.
QuoteI feel sorry for the people at the other avp wiki, they have to deal with him there all the time, and since its now adminless, i read a post month or two back saying he now considers himself an admin more or less even though he is not one.
Hahaha seriously? Which wiki does he trash, so I know not to use it?
Cannot decide what's the better solution for this thread: nuking it from orbit or making a flying saucer crash into it.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 07:32:57 PM
QuoteI feel sorry for the people at the other avp wiki, they have to deal with him there all the time, and since its now adminless, i read a post month or two back saying he now considers himself an admin more or less even though he is not one.
Hahaha seriously? Which wiki does he trash, so I know not to use it?
Its called Xenopedia and while it originally more or less decent, it slowly became bad and eventually adminless and disorganized which among other reasons is why i created a new wiki, xenoversal.
QuoteCannot decide what's the better solution for this thread: nuking it from orbit or making a flying saucer crash into it.
Nuke it, its the only way to be sure.
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 27, 2012, 07:38:23 PM
Cannot decide what's the better solution for this thread: nuking it from orbit or making a flying saucer crash into it.
Go for a TwoFor!
Load a bunch of Nukes onto the Saucer and then crash it from orbit. :P
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 07:41:02 PM
Quote from: OmegaZilla on Feb 27, 2012, 07:38:23 PM
Cannot decide what's the better solution for this thread: nuking it from orbit or making a flying saucer crash into it.
Go for a TwoFor!
Load a bunch of Nukes onto the Saucer and then crash it from orbit. :P
Not enough, use the nuke filled sauce to drag the moon down to it. :laugh:
Create a blackhole. Better than a nuke and a saucer. No we know nothing survived.
True now lets get back to the topic at hand...unless this thread has now served its purpose and there is nothing else to say...
Only about 20 odd pages back.
We don't have to nuke the thread. It's a nice thread. I liked this thread for quite some time.
Ignore the troll. There is even a button that allows you to do this with now actual effort.
Ignore and continue.
Well what more is there to talk about? the thing will kill a xenomorph, that is it. unless there is more scenarios we can pit the two against.
If there was an The Thing/Alien crossover, it should take place on LV-426.
Quote from: mastermoon on Feb 28, 2012, 05:30:44 PM
If there was an The Thing/Alien crossover, it should take place on LV-426.
Why? Only like 1 of the AvP crossovers takes place there.
Shouldn't it be set on neutral ground to both series?
LV-426 is the new Tatooine. Ass-end of nowhere, but everything happens there.
A space station like gateway would be good for such a situation.
Why not Antarctica, like I mentioned before? Both creatures have already been established there.
Quote from: kelgaard on Feb 29, 2012, 04:59:00 AM
Why not Antarctica, like I mentioned before? Both creatures have already been established there.
Because its a been there, done that scenario, space station can be more isolating especially if all the lights were out and the escape shuttles gone. Anyone still on the space station will have to deal with the thing and the xenomorphs.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
No, I'm just tired of you being stubborn. My responses will be more articulate when yours are more thought out.
They are thought out, just one little splash of acid from a Xenomorph incapacitated Hicks, the Thing is going to have more than a splash of acid get on it ether because it was barfed at, or because it wounded a Xenomorph. The Thing recoiled from hot metal, and attack people that were shocking it, besides the fact it screams when it is on fire. That hot meta, fire and defibrillator, could never do as much damage, or cause as much pain, as the standard acid used by a Xenomorph Warrior. Said acid will give the Thing incentive not to try and impale a Xenomorph, and or slash it.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
You keep saying that, and we keep proving you wrong, so get over it.
Bull you obviously never red the bestiary. It describes what the Xenomorphs in the AvP:E story can do. So it is not JUST game mechanics that a Pratarian can spew lots and lots of acid, or a Predalien infects its prey full of acids.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
Aliens. Hicks shotguns an Alien in the face. Stop ignoring canon.
Their is a BIG difference between POINT BLANK and CLOSE RANGE.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
Actually yes.
Actually no.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
'm getting tired of arguing this point with you. Even if they only lose half the time, or less than half the time, they still loose a bunch. The point I was trying to make is that they're not unstoppable and lose a noticeable amount of the time.
I notice you've begun to stop arguing my points and are instead arguing the semantics of how I phrased them.
Perhaps you should reread the comments agian and look at the meaning behind them. By saying "Aliens lose often" that means they lose alot! Which is false, however I can say the Thing loses often. The reason I am pointing this out is because tactical competence plays a factor in this, a factor no one here is looking into.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
Your reading comprehension sucks. Go read what I said again. I said we're NOT ignoring the parts we don't like. For f**k's sake.
That's three reading comprehension fails, but as this is the same as a previous one, I'm willing to overlook it. Again, I'm not ignoring anything.
Bull one of your best friends said to "f**k the games." You constantly are claiming that things I say are from gamemechanics only, I am using the bestiary from both AvP:E, AvP:arcade, the guides, onscreen footage and literature, only when their is nothing written about a particular alien is gamemechanics acceptable to use.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
You know what? We've proved you wrong on this so many f**king times it's not even funny anymore.
You have not proved anything in this matter. You have not taken into consideration that
1)The Aliens already have cleared out a large portion of the galaxy and or universe and there not as many life forms as you would like to think that are left for the Thing to use as full to rebuild or grow,
2) You have automatically assumed that the Thing beats the humans, Yautja, Space Jockeys and whatever is left that the Xenomorphs didn't kill off completely, the Thing, MAY be killed off and or greatly hampered by said creatures, and or there constructs, I grantee a combat syth isn't just going to let a Thing get away with killing its master, and because it is also inorganic, their is nothing the Thing gains from fighting said combat syth.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
I wasn't even talking about assimilation. Even if a Thing can't assimilate a xeno, they win by sheer numbers.
By sheer numbers you mean cells in a Thing 'WHEN' it is imitating something? Having an army of cell sized organisims isn't going to help the Thing fight and or win against the Xenomorph.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
I said I was extrapolating. Your reading comprehension has failed you again.
No I am taking into consideration that in order for the Thing to build up it's numbers, it is going to have to assimilate more beings from other planets, which can be a problem for the the Thing because most life in the galaxy has been killed by the Xenomorph, said life also will be on planets that the Thing can't operate on. This fact alone would make this battle a draw because the Thing would not be able to kill off all the Xenomorphs in the universe.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
So you're conveniently ignoring the vehicles visible in the pan-out shot that would allow her to drive back to the boat? Stop ignoring canon. I am genuinely interested to hear where he says this.
I already wrote where you can find the dialog.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
And you know what, I'm not actually that attached to the theory that the Thing will win, it's just that the evidence heavily supports that outcome. There's no emotional investment in it. If there were actual logical evidence I could get behind that the Alien would win, I would support that outcome. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of evidence that the Aliens will put up a hell of a fight, but the match-up seems to come out in the Thing's favor.
Here are the reasons why the Xenomorphs will win in the end.
1)Biological-Imperative
They change/evolve, fast mind you, to deal with the current threat of the hive. They have a vast database of evolutionary responses at their disposal for dealing with there enemies. Now your response has been "Well some die from guns so Biological-Imperative = 0 capabilities at best," or "they have been infected with black mold so the Thing can infect it too."
Well to counter your claims, I will point out that the whole reason Onslaught Genomes, Ravagers, and slew of other evolved Xenomorphs, is to COUNTER heavy weaponry, even vehicles or in the case of Ravagers, attack fortifications, and ships. Their are Xenmorphs that have evolved and or as standard that can take pulse rifle rounds and bigger, and have no effect on them PERIOD. You will notice in the stories that the humans constantly have new weapons in the stories, that is because the Aliens keep evolving to be more dangerous. The only time they can't really evolve is if they do not have a Queen/Empress/War Empress/Queen Mother(on same planet) Go ahead look at all the stories, the weapons get more and more advanced, bigger meaner.
As for chemical, and biological weapons used on them, I will point out that the black mold was used on a strange breed of alien, but if needed (like if the whole species were in danger) the Aliens can evolve to protect themselves from it. I will also point out that the Juice that was effective at killing anything it touched in Xenogen, is no longer used on the aliens. There THREE reasons WHY humans would stop using it on Xenomorphs,
1)They don't have the ingredients, to make it anymore( unlikely), The Queen Mother made them stop making/using the juice(possible),
OR they evolved and it has no effect on them (more than likely because bio-imperative is one of their most powerful abilities.)
Also I will point out that when you do have the capabilities to protect yourself from diseases, infections, it is easier to protect yourself from said diseases than it is to defend yourself against ballistic weapons even if you have the armor. So-much can go wrong when ballistics are concerned it isn't funny. Lets say you got yourself a turtle shell, and a guy shots you right were your ribs should be with a S&W 500 anti-Trex 700 milligram round. The shell probably wont let the bullet through HOWEVER the force from the shell will probably destroy your ribs, you could very well still die even though the bullet didn't get through the armor. Antibiotics on the other hand if you are not allergic to them, and its the right type, will work 100%
The Aliens are constantly having to deal with an enemy that changes there weapons, they ether keep using better armor piercing ammo, higher caliber weapons, or energy weapons. They fact that these weapons are changed often should tell you that they lose there effectiveness.
The Thing on the other hand can only infect a creature in one way. Now take in mind that their are massive amounts of planets that the Xenomorphs have taken over in a long long period of time. On the planets that have a pro-life ecosystem that the Aliens have taken over, they constantly are building up an army with said exosystem. On Xenomorph Prime their were so many Aliens on the surface of the Planet, that the Planet surface could not be seen except the mountains themselves, we are talk billions-trillions of Xenomorphs on one planet, and its close to being like this on all planets they control with an pro-life active ecosystem.
I will also point out that in Xenogenesis that the teammembers were concurend with getting acid on their suits, because it could kill them. Xenogenesis takes place after a good majority of stories I presume, so why would they not be using the special alloys that are made to defeat the effects of acid? Well the answer it ether they lots the ability to make acid prof armor OR the Aliens evolved to use a different acid, or enzymes, or anything else that is very caustic. The last is more likely because of Bio-Imperative.
2)Xenomorphs that come from different host have different capabilities
This goes along with Bio-Imperative but I will point out that Xenomorphs from other host creatures can be immensely more durable, stronger, bigger than human born Xenomorphs. The Predalien Warrior from BG-386 was monsteriously durable, the Predaliens from LV-1201 had to be taken down with sold slugs from a master key and heavier weapons, The Warriors that came from Whales, were so freaking huge that they dwarf nid Bio-titains, and all the lower end Imperial Titains, Queens, Ravagers ecct, that come from Whales I would freaking hate to see, especially since I saw a panel where a Warrior took a hit to the head from weapons from a Drop ship and it didn't die.
3)Xenomorphs, are much better tacticians, and are Galacticly aware of what is happening in the Galaxy and or universe.
QuoteThis is true here are some quotes proving what I said above.
Aliens:Hive
Quote
Here They come. "Gill, that is the aperture through the field. Do You see It? "Classic strategy. Potter didn't anticipate their cleverness. "Have you ever seen anything move so quickly? "They'll never even know what hit them. "I would hate to encounter the Predator that acid defense was evolved to thwart." It's over quickly for most. But some of them aren't so lucky.
Aliens:Hive
Quote
At first only one or two moved. But others joined quickly... A mute understanding passing among them... An understanding born of ritualized and tactile communication. Their mass built geometrically until they formed a living wall.*
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Evidently the Alien Queen is able to communicate in some subconscious fashion. With other species. In human beings, these disseminations manifest themselves in the form of pattern nightmares. The dreams were a lure. At first we thought we'd be able to contain the spore. Infestation seemed limited to a narrow geographic range. And yet for every cluster we found there were ten more just like it.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
The Alien's subconscious bait transcended class and political boundaries. We found hives everywhere. With each new discovery, out hope of destroying the creatures before they entered the civilian population faded. However we still considered containment an option. In studying the bionational file we learned their Queen gestated a number of weeks prior to maturation. Using their experiment as a baseline, I assumed we still had time before any New Queens would become viable. I was wrong.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Perhaps our worst mistake was underestimating the sheer instinctual cunning of the creatures. We didn't see the underlying Pattern behind their evolutionary process--the way every facet of their existence was geared toward propagation. The Queens Matured at whatever speed their survival dictated. We had assumed the gestation period was time for the Alien embryo to feed and grow, but it was more than that. I was an opportunity for the unknowing host to spread it's spore to other sites.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
The civilian authority was weak in the face of the devastation. When the Generals finally stage their coup it seemed almost--welcome. The military created testing centers where physicians checked civilians for signs of the Alien infection. At first the test were voluntary. Within days that changed. There were rumors the military was using the pretext of aline infection to eliminate political dissident--the poor, the diasaffected--As if such petty rivalries even mattered.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Vital services--water, electricity-- began to fail. We've heard of infestations in Europe, Australia. The seed is growing with remarkable speed. From all this I've come to understand something about humanity. Man is an animal, driven by animal passions. "Civilization" is a pathetic charge of manners, predicated on a tissue--thin veil of lies. In the future--if there is a future-- historians may blame out failures on some external cause--the Aliens. Bionational. Fate. I know the truth. Those things didn't destroy us. We did.
Aliens: Outbreak
Quote
Damn them damn them all to hell. They thought they could breed the monsters. The monsters were breading us!
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
Quote
I watched them disappear in the darkness. I let them Go--I wanted them to go. The Alien is the only one I can trust. Their loyalty transcends human treachery. Together, we will form a new world. I will lead man and alien alike toward a new glory, a new beginning--A better tomorrow! Some of course, will perish in the terrible struggle ahead. I know that. I respect it.--But In the end, we will prevail. I can hear the adulation of the masses as I rescue them from their misery. I can hear their cries of joy as I inspire them to rebuild out world. I could feel their love, their admiration--their fear. We ere on the cusp of a truly historic moment--when the tide would turn against the human disorganization of the past--my boys would make us proud again.
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
Quote
Squad--come to order! The time has come to prove yourselves--to show your commanding officer all you have learned. We must give no quarter. The others are your enemies. They must be destroyed! ATTACK! I gave you a direct order!
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
Quote
The Old Guard must be overthrown-- they must be defeated--! I see now-- she's trying to turn you against me--You fility bitch! My God you used me-- You wanted your precious children back and I--I Brought them to you-- The tracked Spreas' ship to Earth--and then there was nothing. His revolution ended before it had a chance to begin. The alien wouldn't allow it.
Aliens: Female War
Quote
--I felt her strength. Her utter supremacy. The pilot of the deflect ship had discovered the aliens genesis--the source of their power.
Aliens: Female War
Quote
We assumed the Alien infestations were sporadic, arbitrary-- that they bred wherever convenient, like some horrible cancers. We were WRONG. They Move with PURPOSE. She's calling her children back to her."
Aliens: Female War
Quote
--It's me you want. Billie--move over here with me. That's why you had your babies keep the little girl alive-- you knew we'd come for her.
Now remember I was talking about how-many planets the Xenomorphs control AND that the Queen Mother commands all the Aliens in universe. Think of every planet that the Xenomorphs are on as a wireless router. The Queen Mother is aware of what is going on on is said areas were their are Xenomorphs. Now besides the fact the Queen can see what the other species are doing to some degree if not completely, she will know when the Thing comes and attacks one of her planets.
Now I don't think the Thing (All of them that have ever existed) would even be able to take the first planet it came across that the Xenomorphs control and have controlled for awhile. BUT if the Thing did take that planet it, and was able to infect those Xenomorphs and it went on to the next Xenomorphs planet, odds are that next planet will be able to kill off the Thing, in fact if you take probability in mind and the bio-imperative, the probability that the Xenomorphs will have adapted to The Thing and have become lethal to it is 100% after a couple planets and like I said there somany planets in the universe that the Aliens are on that they took control of and away from other alien species that they wiped out it isn't even funny.
With Bio-Imperative they can (the have before) adapt to using a lot more acid based weapons/ powerful enyzmes, venoms and such to fight off the Thing. Now I onisly want you to tell me with a straight face that if the Thing came to a alien controlled world and all those aliens adapted to use acid based weapons that it would survive.
Remember there billions-trillions of the freaking Xenomorphs on Xenomorph prime Remember that acid bath you said you would need to kill the thing will I grantee billions-trillions of Xenomorphs on just one planet alone will give you that acid bath you asked for and more, not one piece of the Thing will be able to run, see the whole planet is a giant hive with billions-trillions of Xenomorphs on it. The hives themselves on Xenomorph Prime are linked to the Queen Mother and the Super Aliens, not only that but if the Aliens are using hive nods they have a similar benefit the Queen Mother has and her personal hive. Nothing can get in these hives without them knowing.
Ok now I will point out a couple things not going for the Thing.
1)It is intelligent but it is not wise AT ALL.
The Thing makes way to many mistakes.
*I tired to assimilate the whole group of people in most of its stories. If it's goal was to leave earth it should have just killed ONE person cleaned up its mess after assimilation and then built its space ship. The Thing could have told the people at the base not to disturb it because it was running vital tests, building equipment, ecct.
*It didn't try and kill anybody with weapons. IF
IF The Thing could assimilate dead people AND it's goal was to leave Earth, it SHOULD have just taken over one person, then taken possession of the guns and flame thrower and kill everyone like its hunting season like it was freaking scar face and or rambo. Instead it tried to hide out and kill people by assimilating them, which didn't turn out to be a good plan for it.
*It didn't poison anyone either. Alternatively it could have just put something in everyone ones food or drinking water that would cause everyone to die, if for some reason it is to
SHY to use firearms.
*The smaller they are the dumber. Case and point the walking head decided to stick around and have a hot dog roast courtesy of it former body. And then it got set on fire. (Hint there is a good chance when the thing is covered in acid that if pieces come off them the will sit and watch what is going on, and then be doused in acid/enzymes as well.
*They let Mac live?: Yeah they could have killed him in South America yet they let him get away uninfected. From my understanding he was ASLEEP a good while, they could have infected him at that point but didn't. Maybe the Thing likes being roasted...? Maybe deep down it wants to fail just like Thantos does. PS If the Thing can infect everything including plants as chupacabras acheronsis has stated, why did they not infect all of South America? There so many trees there, animals, it would be so easy and fast to do if it were possible.
Here are a couple other things to point out about the Thing not concerning its lack of strategic thought.
1)As has been shown the bigger the Thing gets the more immobile it gets, most the time if not all the time.
2)When it is not pretending to be some one or some thing, it has no cells
ZERO ZIP NADA! So in this form they really would be easy to control mentally with the Queen Mother considering just how freaking powerful she is mentally..
3)Even if it consumes more than one person it is still imitating whatever it is imitating so it cell count will still remain the same otherwise it is not a prefect imitation.
4)IF the Xenomorph and the Thing switched places between stories the Thing would not survive what the Xenomorph survives. Case and point a Xenomorph Whale Warrior took hits to the head from weapon mounted on a drop ship. A Thing would be none existent. Ravagers were created for fighting the enemy head one even if the enemy is using the heaviest weapons available to it. The Thing would be obliterated by the weapons used on a Ravager, weapons that the Ravager survives. S.A.D.A.R. S.A.D.A.R.MAG, tanks, armored carries, weaponized power armorers with ether rotary cannons or the kill book, a weapon that shots lots and LOTS of RAIL GUN rounds, or radioactive napalm or hell
DARK PLASMA, that's all a Predator needs to finish the the Thing.
Now if the Alien were in the Thing stories instead of the Thing it will end with a game over for the humans.
5)The Thing is not meant to be in in every environment. Case in point if the Thing was not affected by the cold conditions it would have strolled out of their and made its way to were more lifeforms exist that it can assimilate. Which means it just can't go to every planet that the Xenomorphs occupy.
4)Xenomorphs, are nearly-impossible to impossible to assimilate.
After taking all of these things into consideration the Thing has no hope of killing all the Xenomorphs, not only that but surviving a war with the Xenomorphs. Not only would it be easier to adapt to the Thing, the Thing is not good at observing the situation and or making good tactical judgements. Taking into consideration that the Queen Mother could just take over the Things mind and or drive it insaine, AND the population per planet geared towards killing the Thing, the fight becomes pointless to the Thing.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
Holy Shit did you just deliberately misquote me? You did! Wow. It's like you're not even trying anymore...
No I corrected your comment, I just assumed you miss-wrote what you wrote like your 17 year old friend did when he was writing to me. Ether way though your team has said things to me like "comics, games, novels, do not count are not in this dojo" so ehter way my comment is right, your team is trying to de-canonize canon material so they can have a better chance at wining the battle. Take for instance xenomorph, the person I am talking to on your team, is quote unquote pro-canon except for during this battle he has tried to de-canonize events in Aliens Predator lore.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
So I'm not sure what leaving the earth has to do with the hibernation stuff you quoted me about. We don't know what happens next because nobodies released anything that happens chronologically afterwards.
That is its main objective, leave earth, and or infect everything on it. It has done nether, and lots of it has been permanently killed mainly the games and comics. Nothing may happen afterwards because as far as the Thing goes the preq was so so and the newest game is unheard of.
PS The Thing was part of the apocalypses trilogy which possible means that the Devil and the Old-ones destroy earth before the Thing gets to leave earth.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
Now strand one on a frozen continent with no potential hosts after fighting its way through a space ship that's just crashed through a glacier.
It leaves...
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
Fair enough. And it will certainly work on non-human-born xeno's or else the Colonial Marines died rather quickly in pretty much all the AvP games and their campaigns were just pre-death hallucinations.
Actually when the Colonial Marines had to fight a Predaliens they required using much heavier weaponry to kill them. Oh and just so you know most if not all Predaliens have a fantastic defense against, heat and energy based weapons. To fight reg Ravagers you need very heavy cal weapons, the alien is evolved to fight head long into fortified locations. Those Weapons are pretty much usless against a Whale based Warrior.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
I thought you said that Queen Mothers were connected to all the Aliens everywhere? If this is true, why should it matter if there's a Queen on the planet or not?
Because the local Queen has access to the Aliens related to hers bio-imperative, it is probably some sort of security feature to prevent a hostile Queen from just making all of her enemies Xenomorphs going into hibernation before an attack and or to evolve in to something completely useless.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
Really? You think this is a coordinated attack? You think this is 'Team Thing' vs 'Team Alien'? Wow. That's kind of hilarious actually.
Well I quess that sucks for you because I do have a team, and for what ever reason one that is here will not say anything to you. I think I know why its pretty obvious after being here for a couple months.
Quote from: HybridNewborn on Feb 27, 2012, 06:03:01 AM
No, we're not IM'ing each other. At least I'm not, no idea about the others. As far as I know, we're just a group of people heavily dedicated to a hard-core AvP community who still think the Thing would win this fight because we have the ability to actually look at evidence and draw unbiased conclusions from it.
Yeah you might want to rethink it. Read my big post above.
Quote from: chupacabras acheronsis on Feb 27, 2012, 06:11:15 AM
nice argument by the way. i'm going to bed now, don't get any smarter.
Yeah I forgot to mention that with egg barfing the Aliens can take over a city with a population of 5,409 in just around 48 hours. I know how much you love AvP:R just thought you should know they can both spread just as fast if not faster than the Thing.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Feb 27, 2012, 06:38:46 AM
If you're going to make statements like that you're going to have to tell us how old you are.
Sorry you are not the CO or a XO, so go ice skate up a hill monkey boy.
Epic troll is epic.
TL;DR
Here are the reasons why the Xenomorphs will win in the end.
1)Biological-Imperative
They change/evolve, fast mind you, to deal with the current threat of the hive. They have a vast database of evolutionary responses at their disposal for dealing with there enemies. Now your response has been "Well some die from guns so Biological-Imperative = 0 capabilities at best," or "they have been infected with black mold so the Thing can infect it too."
Well to counter your claims, I will point out that the whole reason Onslaught Genomes, Ravagers, and slew of other evolved Xenomorphs, is to COUNTER heavy weaponry, even vehicles or in the case of Ravagers, attack fortifications, and ships. Their are Xenmorphs that have evolved and or as standard that can take pulse rifle rounds and bigger, and have no effect on them PERIOD. You will notice in the stories that the humans constantly have new weapons in the stories, that is because the Aliens keep evolving to be more dangerous. The only time they can't really evolve is if they do not have a Queen/Empress/War Empress/Queen Mother(on same planet) Go ahead look at all the stories, the weapons get more and more advanced, bigger meaner.
As for chemical, and biological weapons used on them, I will point out that the black mold was used on a strange breed of alien, but if needed (like if the whole species were in danger) the Aliens can evolve to protect themselves from it. I will also point out that the Juice that was effective at killing anything it touched in Xenogen, is no longer used on the aliens. There THREE reasons WHY humans would stop using it on Xenomorphs,
1)They don't have the ingredients, to make it anymore( unlikely), The Queen Mother made them stop making/using the juice(possible), OR they evolved and it has no effect on them (more than likely because bio-imperative is one of their most powerful abilities.)
Also I will point out that when you do have the capabilities to protect yourself from diseases, infections, it is easier to protect yourself from said diseases than it is to defend yourself against ballistic weapons even if you have the armor. So-much can go wrong when ballistics are concerned it isn't funny. Lets say you got yourself a turtle shell, and a guy shots you right were your ribs should be with a S&W 500 anti-Trex 700 milligram round. The shell probably wont let the bullet through HOWEVER the force from the shell will probably destroy your ribs, you could very well still die even though the bullet didn't get through the armor. Antibiotics on the other hand if you are not allergic to them, and its the right type, will work 100%
The Aliens are constantly having to deal with an enemy that changes there weapons, they ether keep using better armor piercing ammo, higher caliber weapons, or energy weapons. They fact that these weapons are changed often should tell you that they lose there effectiveness.
The Thing on the other hand can only infect a creature in one way. Now take in mind that their are massive amounts of planets that the Xenomorphs have taken over in a long long period of time. On the planets that have a pro-life ecosystem that the Aliens have taken over, they constantly are building up an army with said exosystem. On Xenomorph Prime their were so many Aliens on the surface of the Planet, that the Planet surface could not be seen except the mountains themselves, we are talk billions-trillions of Xenomorphs on one planet, and its close to being like this on all planets they control with an pro-life active ecosystem.
I will also point out that in Xenogenesis that the teammembers were concurend with getting acid on their suits, because it could kill them. Xenogenesis takes place after a good majority of stories I presume, so why would they not be using the special alloys that are made to defeat the effects of acid? Well the answer it ether they lots the ability to make acid prof armor OR the Aliens evolved to use a different acid, or enzymes, or anything else that is very caustic. The last is more likely because of Bio-Imperative.
2)Xenomorphs that come from different host have different capabilities
This goes along with Bio-Imperative but I will point out that Xenomorphs from other host creatures can be immensely more durable, stronger, bigger than human born Xenomorphs. The Predalien Warrior from BG-386 was monsteriously durable, the Predaliens from LV-1201 had to be taken down with sold slugs from a master key and heavier weapons, The Warriors that came from Whales, were so freaking huge that they dwarf nid Bio-titains, and all the lower end Imperial Titains, Queens, Ravagers ecct, that come from Whales I would freaking hate to see, especially since I saw a panel where a Warrior took a hit to the head from weapons from a Drop ship and it didn't die.
3)Xenomorphs, are much better tacticians, and are Galacticly aware of what is happening in the Galaxy and or universe.
Now remember I was talking about how-many planets the Xenomorphs control AND that the Queen Mother commands all the Aliens in universe. Think of every planet that the Xenomorphs are on as a wireless router. The Queen Mother is aware of what is going on on is said areas were their are Xenomorphs. Now besides the fact the Queen can see what the other species are doing to some degree if not completely, she will know when the Thing comes and attacks one of her planets.
Now I don't think the Thing (All of them that have ever existed) would even be able to take the first planet it came across that the Xenomorphs control and have controlled for awhile. BUT if the Thing did take that planet it, and was able to infect those Xenomorphs and it went on to the next Xenomorphs planet, odds are that next planet will be able to kill off the Thing, in fact if you take probability in mind and the bio-imperative, the probability that the Xenomorphs will have adapted to The Thing and have become lethal to it is 100% after a couple planets and like I said there somany planets in the universe that the Aliens are on that they took control of and away from other alien species that they wiped out it isn't even funny.
With Bio-Imperative they can (the have before) adapt to using a lot more acid based weapons/ powerful enyzmes, venoms and such to fight off the Thing. Now I onisly want you to tell me with a straight face that if the Thing came to a alien controlled world and all those aliens adapted to use acid based weapons that it would survive. Remember there billions-trillions of the freaking Xenomorphs on Xenomorph prime Remember that acid bath you said you would need to kill the thing will I grantee billions-trillions of Xenomorphs on just one planet alone will give you that acid bath you asked for and more, not one piece of the Thing will be able to run, see the whole planet is a giant hive with billions-trillions of Xenomorphs on it. The hives themselves on Xenomorph Prime are linked to the Queen Mother and the Super Aliens, not only that but if the Aliens are using hive nods they have a similar benefit the Queen Mother has and her personal hive. Nothing can get in these hives without them knowing.
Ok now I will point out a couple things not going for the Thing.
1)It is intelligent but it is not wise AT ALL.
The Thing makes way to many mistakes.
*I tired to assimilate the whole group of people in most of its stories. If it's goal was to leave earth it should have just killed ONE person cleaned up its mess after assimilation and then built its space ship. The Thing could have told the people at the base not to disturb it because it was running vital tests, building equipment, ecct.
*It didn't try and kill anybody with weapons. IF IF The Thing could assimilate dead people AND it's goal was to leave Earth, it SHOULD have just taken over one person, then taken possession of the guns and flame thrower and kill everyone like its hunting season like it was freaking scar face and or rambo. Instead it tried to hide out and kill people by assimilating them, which didn't turn out to be a good plan for it.
*It didn't poison anyone either. Alternatively it could have just put something in everyone ones food or drinking water that would cause everyone to die, if for some reason it is to SHY to use firearms.
*The smaller they are the dumber. Case and point the walking head decided to stick around and have a hot dog roast courtesy of it former body. And then it got set on fire. (Hint there is a good chance when the thing is covered in acid that if pieces come off them the will sit and watch what is going on, and then be doused in acid/enzymes as well.
*They let Mac live?: Yeah they could have killed him in South America yet they let him get away uninfected. From my understanding he was ASLEEP a good while, they could have infected him at that point but didn't. Maybe the Thing likes being roasted...? Maybe deep down it wants to fail just like Thantos does. PS If the Thing can infect everything including plants as chupacabras acheronsis has stated, why did they not infect all of South America? There so many trees there, animals, it would be so easy and fast to do if it were possible.
Here are a couple other things to point out about the Thing not concerning its lack of strategic thought.
1)As has been shown the bigger the Thing gets the more immobile it gets, most the time if not all the time.
2)When it is not pretending to be some one or some thing, it has no cells ZERO ZIP NADA! So in this form they really would be easy to control mentally with the Queen Mother considering just how freaking powerful she is mentally..
3)Even if it consumes more than one person it is still imitating whatever it is imitating so it cell count will still remain the same otherwise it is not a prefect imitation.
4)IF the Xenomorph and the Thing switched places between stories the Thing would not survive what the Xenomorph survives. Case and point a Xenomorph Whale Warrior took hits to the head from weapon mounted on a drop ship. A Thing would be none existent. Ravagers were created for fighting the enemy head one even if the enemy is using the heaviest weapons available to it. The Thing would be obliterated by the weapons used on a Ravager, weapons that the Ravager survives. S.A.D.A.R. S.A.D.A.R.MAG, tanks, armored carries, weaponized power armorers with ether rotary cannons or the kill book, a weapon that shots lots and LOTS of RAIL GUN rounds, or radioactive napalm or hell DARK PLASMA, that's all a Predator needs to finish the the Thing.
Now if the Alien were in the Thing stories instead of the Thing it will end with a game over for the humans.
5)The Thing is not meant to be in in every environment. Case in point if the Thing was not affected by the cold conditions it would have strolled out of their and made its way to were more lifeforms exist that it can assimilate. Which means it just can't go to every planet that the Xenomorphs occupy.
4)Xenomorphs, are nearly-impossible to impossible to assimilate.
After taking all of these things into consideration the Thing has no hope of killing all the Xenomorphs, not only that but surviving a war with the Xenomorphs. Not only would it be easier to adapt to the Thing, the Thing is not good at observing the situation and or making good tactical judgements. Taking into consideration that the Queen Mother could just take over the Things mind and or drive it insaine, AND the population per planet geared towards killing the Thing, the fight becomes pointless to the Thing.
I don't think copying and pasting a previous post is going to convince anyone.
This is what i had to put up with in the avp wiki :laugh:
He is obviously an idiot.
I am neither a fan of the thing or the xenomorph(though i enjoy both) and i see that the thing would win anyday due to its shape shifting ability.
While i believe assimilation is near impossible,i know in a physical match up the thing will dominate a xenomorph.
Also we know a thing would easily survive what the xenomorph has been through more or less.
oh for f**k's sake, he's back? This is what I get for spending the day on a plane.
QuoteNo I corrected your comment,
And that is different from misquoting me on purpose how?
So you
deliberately misquoted me and then based a good chunk of your arguments against my statements on the "corrected" version of what I said?
And
then you write a long response post restating the same stuff we've refuted again and again (and, btw, just because you can't admit it doesn't mean we haven't) while continuing to make snide personal remarks?
QuoteSorry you are not the CO or a XO, so go ice skate up a hill monkey boy.
I don't even know what this
means. ???
Quote from: SM on Mar 05, 2012, 02:46:13 AM
I don't think copying and pasting a previous post is going to convince anyone.
That's my favorite part - as if repeating it enough times will somehow make it true. :D