We all know the scene...Parker dead on the floor and the bare foot/feet of Lambert hanging from the ceiling. Also, you notice the bare leg of Lambert and a badly broken toe. Yes, her pants and shoes are gone.
Forgive my freeze-frame analysis but, I only locked the frame after that horrible scream of Lambert to try and figure out one strange thing...where is our xenomorph? Why did it just up and leave it's newest victim/s?
Ripley was at the Nostromo's bridge with Parker and Lambert 3 decks down. They were on the ship's intercom and Ripley heard it all go down. And, it was seriously creepy when we hear Lambert's final cry. It suddenly goes up an octave or two and then...silence.
Ripley did not even remotely get there in time to possibly hose the xeno with her flamethrower, so, why did it leave behind two bodies when it seemed intent on getting Brett and Dallas to it's "nest"? Let the discussion begin. (Or, if this topic has come up before in thousands of topics and replies from years past...sorry, that is a lot to go through. Just point me to the thread and I will read it).
The creature leaving after concluding its business with Lambert & Parker could be a script contrivance to spare the Ripley character. If she did get there and discovered the thing, the character's outcome would be quite different.
It got sleepy and tired after doing it to Lambert, wasn't it in the mood to take bodies anywhere.
Brett was not a threat and procreation needed to start asap. Egged.
Dallas was a limited threat. He was alone in a tight space and could be easily outmaneuvered. Plenty of meat left in the rest of the crew. Egged
Ash wasn't edible and was killed by the crew. Non issue.
Parker was a threat and interfered with his happy time. Killed.
Lambert was a fun experiment and likely not worth eating/too injured by the assault to be egged. Killed.
Ripley (another human) was on her way, and possibly armed. After being attacked by Parker, it would've known they all aren't just going to sit there and die. With 2 eggs going and 2 snacks set aside, it might as well get out of harms way and prepare to ambush the last (potential) threat. Whether Ripley would've gotten the lambert treatment or been egg-morphed, we'll never know. I'm inclined to think Lambert got him riled up, as he could've killed Ripley instantly on the Narcissus, but he didn't. He was still "in the mood", and he was going to have some fun with the lady in the underwear.
Quote from: Huggs on Oct 11, 2019, 09:45:40 PM
Brett was not a threat and procreation needed to start asap. Egged.
Dallas was a limited threat. He was alone in a tight space and could be easily outmaneuvered. Plenty of meat left in the rest of the crew. Egged
Ash wasn't edible and was killed by the crew. Non issue.
Parker was a threat and interfered with his happy time. Killed.
Lambert was a fun experiment and likely not worth eating/too injured by the assault to be egged. Killed.
Ripley (another human) was on her way, and possibly armed. After being attacked by Parker, it would've known they all aren't just going to sit there and die. With 2 eggs going and 2 snacks set aside, it might as well get out of harms way and prepare to ambush the last (potential) threat. Whether Ripley would've gotten the lambert treatment or been egg-morphed, we'll never know. I'm inclined to think Lambert got him riled up, as he could've killed Ripley instantly on the Narcissus, but he didn't. He was still "in the mood", and he was going to have some fun with the lady in the underwear.
It doesn't seem to matter whether the victim is alive or dead for them to be "egg-morphed". Brett was killed and Dallas taken alive - both being "egg-morphed".
^ Yep
Brett may have been killed. Ripley even said she didn't know. He was still screaming after the bite as he went up. He didn't die instantly like Parker, Clemens, etc.
He might have been injured to the point of being comatose, but still biologically "alive" enough to egg morph. It happens with massive head trauma. The Terror had an example of this.
Theory: It was aware the Nostromo wasn't a safe place anymore, and retreated to the Narcissus.
Could its later contemplative appearance outside the shuttle airlock provide some suggestion? Was it assessing the change in the ship's condition? It went there from C-Deck, instead of to A-Deck where the only living beings/prey were located.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Nov 25, 2019, 11:58:28 AM
Theory: It was aware the Nostromo wasn't a safe place anymore, and retreated to the Narcissus.
I personally think it was just a hunting instinct. If they were that intelligent, the queen and her warriors would've been evacuating the hive before the atmo processor blew up in the 2nd film. But they were going about business as usual until the very end.
Ripley was making an effort to get to the narcissus before she was scared away by the alien. It could just be that the xenomorph noticed this and hid in the narcissus as some sort of ambush tactic. It's a sealed area at then end of a long corridor. If the prey comes in, it's not getting out.
Even before that, it seemed to know where it was and what it was doing in the air vents when it came after Dallas. And it waited for Dallas to come to it. And it didn't attack Brett right off either. It hid in plain sight and waited until he was close and in just the right spot. Just like it did with Ripley near the end. The warrior in Aliens didn't grab Dietrich until she was right under it.
Using the environment to their advantage is their thing. They're ambush predators for the most part. They just blend in, and they wait like a Wobbegong Shark. As for situational awareness, I have my doubts that they understand what all the bells, steam and whistles mean.
It's kinda hard to assume the xeno even killed Parker and Lambert. Nobody knows if the head injury on Parker killed him, the guy coulda still had a heartbeat. It's not even clear what happens to Lambert so we can't even say it was something lethal with certainty.
When Ripley stumbles on them we only see Ripley's face, not anyone else's. Maybe she saw that they were unconscious [i.e. NOT dead] but also knew (sadly) that there was nothing she could do to help them without risking her safety too. She then decides to turn on her friends and get to the Narcissus and thus adding an extra element of tragedy to the overall story. Her character arch however, makes a complete turn-around when she goes back to save Newt in Aliens. I think that James Cameron would agree because why else would he do this??
They were dead.
Quote from: Huggs on Nov 26, 2019, 03:28:00 AM
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Nov 25, 2019, 11:58:28 AM
Theory: It was aware the Nostromo wasn't a safe place anymore, and retreated to the Narcissus.
I personally think it was just a hunting instinct. If they were that intelligent, the queen and her warriors would've been evacuating the hive before the atmo processor blew up in the 2nd film. But they were going about business as usual until the very end.
Ripley was making an effort to get to the narcissus before she was scared away by the alien. It could just be that the xenomorph noticed this and hid in the narcissus as some sort of ambush tactic. It's a sealed area at then end of a long corridor. If the prey comes in, it's not getting out.
Even before that, it seemed to know where it was and what it was doing in the air vents when it came after Dallas. And it waited for Dallas to come to it. And it didn't attack Brett right off either. It hid in plain sight and waited until he was close and in just the right spot. Just like it did with Ripley near the end. The warrior in Aliens didn't grab Dietrich until she was right under it.
Using the environment to their advantage is their thing. They're ambush predators for the most part. They just blend in, and they wait like a Wobbegong Shark. As for situational awareness, I have my doubts that they understand what all the bells, steam and whistles mean.
It came to Lambert & Parker. They didn't blunder into its waiting arms like the previous victims.
Indeed.
That's why I said "for the most part".
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 26, 2019, 04:02:44 AM
It's kinda hard to assume the xeno even killed Parker and Lambert. Nobody knows if the head injury on Parker killed him, the guy coulda still had a heartbeat. It's not even clear what happens to Lambert so we can't even say it was something lethal with certainty.
When Ripley stumbles on them we only see Ripley's face, not anyone else's. Maybe she saw that they were unconscious [i.e. NOT dead] but also knew (sadly) that there was nothing she could do to help them without risking her safety too. She then decides to turn on her friends and get to the Narcissus and thus adding an extra element of tragedy to the overall story. Her character arch however, makes a complete turn-around when she goes back to save Newt in Aliens. I think that James Cameron would agree because why else would he do this??
You did see Ripley's shudder of revulsion upon discovering the mess left behind by the Alien?
And the big hole in Parker's head.
Ripley wanted to save Dallas; she wouldn't have left Parker and Lambert alive.
She wouldn't have set the self destruct sequence if she had to go back and carry two severely wounded people to the narcissus, one at a time, plus a cat.
Personally I always thought the first intended it to be that intelligent, but the second film missed that, the third not so much.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Nov 26, 2019, 05:43:09 AM
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 26, 2019, 04:02:44 AM
It's kinda hard to assume the xeno even killed Parker and Lambert. Nobody knows if the head injury on Parker killed him, the guy coulda still had a heartbeat. It's not even clear what happens to Lambert so we can't even say it was something lethal with certainty.
When Ripley stumbles on them we only see Ripley's face, not anyone else's. Maybe she saw that they were unconscious [i.e. NOT dead] but also knew (sadly) that there was nothing she could do to help them without risking her safety too. She then decides to turn on her friends and get to the Narcissus and thus adding an extra element of tragedy to the overall story. Her character arch however, makes a complete turn-around when she goes back to save Newt in Aliens. I think that James Cameron would agree because why else would he do this??
You did see Ripley's shudder of revulsion upon discovering the mess left behind by the Alien?
Still doesn't prove that they were dead. I've looked at lots of living humans and shuddered in revulsion. None of them were dead.
Why would she abandon living crew mates?
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 27, 2019, 02:16:10 AM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Nov 26, 2019, 05:43:09 AM
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 26, 2019, 04:02:44 AM
It's kinda hard to assume the xeno even killed Parker and Lambert. Nobody knows if the head injury on Parker killed him, the guy coulda still had a heartbeat. It's not even clear what happens to Lambert so we can't even say it was something lethal with certainty.
When Ripley stumbles on them we only see Ripley's face, not anyone else's. Maybe she saw that they were unconscious [i.e. NOT dead] but also knew (sadly) that there was nothing she could do to help them without risking her safety too. She then decides to turn on her friends and get to the Narcissus and thus adding an extra element of tragedy to the overall story. Her character arch however, makes a complete turn-around when she goes back to save Newt in Aliens. I think that James Cameron would agree because why else would he do this??
You did see Ripley's shudder of revulsion upon discovering the mess left behind by the Alien?
Still doesn't prove that they were dead. I've looked at lots of living humans and shuddered in revulsion. None of them were dead.
Even if both victims were still (barely) alive when Ripley arrived, how long do you think they may have lingered on before eventually succumbing.
As has been already noted; if there was a chance both victims were still alive, wouldn't Ripley have tried to offer assistance?
She saw the full extent of the carnage and realised both victims were beyond help - being VERY dead.
"We set down there on company orders to get this thing, which destroyed my crew"
"One of those things managed to wipe out my entire crew in less than 24 hours"
Aliens only need to snack their way through a massacre to survive.
Quote from: SM on Nov 27, 2019, 03:05:53 AMWhy would she abandon living crew mates?
Same reason she would leave LV-426 without verifying the derelict was destroyed.
It was destroyed so she didn't need to.
<milburn>But how would she know?</milburn>
Because she has spaceship.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Nov 27, 2019, 03:16:14 AM
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 27, 2019, 02:16:10 AM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Nov 26, 2019, 05:43:09 AM
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 26, 2019, 04:02:44 AM
It's kinda hard to assume the xeno even killed Parker and Lambert. Nobody knows if the head injury on Parker killed him, the guy coulda still had a heartbeat. It's not even clear what happens to Lambert so we can't even say it was something lethal with certainty.
When Ripley stumbles on them we only see Ripley's face, not anyone else's. Maybe she saw that they were unconscious [i.e. NOT dead] but also knew (sadly) that there was nothing she could do to help them without risking her safety too. She then decides to turn on her friends and get to the Narcissus and thus adding an extra element of tragedy to the overall story. Her character arch however, makes a complete turn-around when she goes back to save Newt in Aliens. I think that James Cameron would agree because why else would he do this??
You did see Ripley's shudder of revulsion upon discovering the mess left behind by the Alien?
Still doesn't prove that they were dead. I've looked at lots of living humans and shuddered in revulsion. None of them were dead.
Even if both victims were still (barely) alive when Ripley arrived, how long do you think they may have lingered on before eventually succumbing.
As has been already noted; if there was a chance both victims were still alive, wouldn't Ripley have tried to offer assistance?
She saw the full extent of the carnage and realised both victims were beyond help - being VERY dead.
To answer your initial question, the answer is no. It was in a time of crisis and she only had time to consider herself. Jones is only saved as an afterthought and because he's light enough to carry. Her reaction alone does not prove they died until she blew up the Nostromo.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 27, 2019, 03:30:26 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 27, 2019, 03:05:53 AMWhy would she abandon living crew mates?
Same reason she would leave LV-426 without verifying the derelict was destroyed.
She didn't find the egg on the sulaco either.
That is one careless lady. ;D
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 27, 2019, 03:40:17 AM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Nov 27, 2019, 03:16:14 AM
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 27, 2019, 02:16:10 AM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Nov 26, 2019, 05:43:09 AM
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 26, 2019, 04:02:44 AM
It's kinda hard to assume the xeno even killed Parker and Lambert. Nobody knows if the head injury on Parker killed him, the guy coulda still had a heartbeat. It's not even clear what happens to Lambert so we can't even say it was something lethal with certainty.
When Ripley stumbles on them we only see Ripley's face, not anyone else's. Maybe she saw that they were unconscious [i.e. NOT dead] but also knew (sadly) that there was nothing she could do to help them without risking her safety too. She then decides to turn on her friends and get to the Narcissus and thus adding an extra element of tragedy to the overall story. Her character arch however, makes a complete turn-around when she goes back to save Newt in Aliens. I think that James Cameron would agree because why else would he do this??
You did see Ripley's shudder of revulsion upon discovering the mess left behind by the Alien?
Still doesn't prove that they were dead. I've looked at lots of living humans and shuddered in revulsion. None of them were dead.
Even if both victims were still (barely) alive when Ripley arrived, how long do you think they may have lingered on before eventually succumbing.
As has been already noted; if there was a chance both victims were still alive, wouldn't Ripley have tried to offer assistance?
She saw the full extent of the carnage and realised both victims were beyond help - being VERY dead.
To answer your initial question, the answer is no. It was in a time of crisis and she only had time to consider herself. Jones is only saved as an afterthought and because he's light enough to carry. Her reaction alone does not prove they died until she blew up the Nostromo.
:laugh:
She had all the time she wanted. She could've easily checked if they were dead if she was unsure. She was not unsure.
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 27, 2019, 03:40:17 AM
To answer your initial question, the answer is no. It was in a time of crisis and she only had time to consider herself. Jones is only saved as an afterthought and because he's light enough to carry. Her reaction alone does not prove they died until she blew up the Nostromo.
Spoiler
(https://i.postimg.cc/RhtPMhKP/parker-death-2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wBbFLLkf/parker-death-3.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/GtPk7yk1/parker-death-4.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9f4y3SGb/parker-death-5-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dt4Chv6n/parker-death-6-1.jpg)
Parker was tough ... but not tough enough to survive this level of damage - same with his buddy, Brett.
But now I'm picturing Lambert just hanging by a mad wedgie, still quite a live, and Ripley deciding to nope out of there at the sight of it.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 27, 2019, 08:45:35 AM
But now I'm picturing Lambert just hanging by a mad wedgie, still quite a live, and Ripley deciding to nope out of there at the sight of it.
Can you picture where the blood is coming from...
A mad wedgie.
That would be an acceptable reason to leave her behind and no court would ever convict her for doing so.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Nov 25, 2019, 11:58:28 AM
Theory: It was aware the Nostromo wasn't a safe place anymore, and retreated to the Narcissus.
That would be wildly precognitive of it.
The real reason is that the filmmakers wanted us to see the bodies. But it's fun to read everyone's in-universe speculations :)
Quote from: Valaquen on Nov 27, 2019, 04:45:44 PM
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Nov 25, 2019, 11:58:28 AM
Theory: It was aware the Nostromo wasn't a safe place anymore, and retreated to the Narcissus.
That would be wildly precognitive of it.
Unless it knew that Ripley was going to use it as an escape craft, the Narcissus wasn't exactly safe either. Can the aliens glean knowledge from their victims like the brain bug from Starship Troopers?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 27, 2019, 05:33:05 PM
Quote from: Valaquen on Nov 27, 2019, 04:45:44 PM
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Nov 25, 2019, 11:58:28 AM
Theory: It was aware the Nostromo wasn't a safe place anymore, and retreated to the Narcissus.
That would be wildly precognitive of it.
Unless it knew that Ripley was going to use it as an escape craft, the Narcissus wasn't exactly safe either. Can the aliens glean knowledge from their victims like the brain bug from Starship Troopers?
If the Alien was truly intelligent and had the ability to glean or absorb knowledge from its victims, it would have known about the self-destruct system, anticipating any human survivors plan to destroy the ship - it could have saved its nest onboard, and - most importantly - paved the safe 10 months journey to Earth for its eggs.
Yeah, Parker's brains got scrambled. There is zero intent or depiction that indicates Lambert is alive.
I think I didn't articulate my meaning correctly, I meant that- gathering it's intelligent enough to understand the relationship between electricity and light, that suggests it's retreat to the Narcissus- somewhere comparatively quiet and dark, not loud and blaring as on the Nostromo suggests an instinctive intelligence that it understood the "main area" is no longer safe.
The blaring and light came long after it abandoned Parker and Lambert.
... well, minutes later, but still. Ripley didn't start the scuttle procedure until after.
There was blaring horns and flashing lights in the shuttle too.
It's one of those things doesn't make a lot of sense, but it was necessary.
They needed that last jumpscare for the end of the movie.
So in he went.
The shuttle was quieter than the rest of the ship. The sirens noticeably dip in volume when Ripley enters the Narcissus.
It's hardly quiet but.
Alien would've been better off in his nest where it really was quiet. He prolly gunked up the PA speakers.
It may have understood (in a very rudimentary way) the significance (danger) of the flashing lights and klaxons during the 10 mins countdown.
Interestingly, this ties in to an earlier deleted scene, that could subtly suggest a learning curve for the Alien - recalling its earlier, painful experience:
The creature was inquisitive enough to regard the pretty emerald light in the air lock - and certainly sensed danger when Ash tripped the alarm as Parker, Ripley and Lambert were about to spring their trap.
Or the above could be total hash as another deleted moment (the Box Alien) implies the creature was resting (?) peacefully - amidst the din - until disturbed by Ripley.
I personally believe it was - as (bad) luck would have it - the creature decided to use the shuttle as its final (?) resting place.
Where did Ripley actually bump into it and drop Jonesy?
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 06, 2019, 08:02:03 AM
Where did Ripley actually bump into it and drop Jonesy?
B-Level corridor. The Alien was blocking the corridor leading to the shuttle.
Quote from: SM on Dec 06, 2019, 07:21:15 AM
It's hardly quiet but.
It's also, apparently, convenient. We have no idea where it went after killing Parker and Lambert, just that it ended up on B-deck blocking the exit to the airlock.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 06, 2019, 09:29:43 AM
Quote from: SM on Dec 06, 2019, 07:21:15 AM
It's hardly quiet but.
It's also, apparently, convenient. We have no idea where it went after killing Parker and Lambert, just that it ended up on B-deck blocking the exit to the airlock.
Do you think it used the ladder to get up to B-deck or found another way?
Quote from: Huggs on Nov 26, 2019, 03:28:00 AM
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Nov 25, 2019, 11:58:28 AM
Theory: It was aware the Nostromo wasn't a safe place anymore, and retreated to the Narcissus.
I personally think it was just a hunting instinct. If they were that intelligent, the queen and her warriors would've been evacuating the hive before the atmo processor blew up in the 2nd film. But they were going about business as usual until the very end.
Ripley was making an effort to get to the narcissus before she was scared away by the alien. It could just be that the xenomorph noticed this and hid in the narcissus as some sort of ambush tactic. It's a sealed area at then end of a long corridor. If the prey comes in, it's not getting out.
Even before that, it seemed to know where it was and what it was doing in the air vents when it came after Dallas. And it waited for Dallas to come to it. And it didn't attack Brett right off either. It hid in plain sight and waited until he was close and in just the right spot. Just like it did with Ripley near the end. The warrior in Aliens didn't grab Dietrich until she was right under it.
Using the environment to their advantage is their thing. They're ambush predators for the most part. They just blend in, and they wait like a Wobbegong Shark. As for situational awareness, I have my doubts that they understand what all the bells, steam and whistles mean.
I always wondered about what the Alien on the Nostromo did and where it was, when it wasn't hunting.
If you go by the only version to go by the Theatrical, the Narcissus is the quietest place because the "nest" itself doesn't necessarily exist in that version.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Dec 06, 2019, 08:05:51 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 06, 2019, 08:02:03 AM
Where did Ripley actually bump into it and drop Jonesy?
B-Level corridor. The Alien was blocking the corridor leading to the shuttle.
If that's the case couldn't it just have anticipated Ripley going there since it stopped her before?
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 06, 2019, 05:39:13 PM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Dec 06, 2019, 08:05:51 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 06, 2019, 08:02:03 AM
Where did Ripley actually bump into it and drop Jonesy?
B-Level corridor. The Alien was blocking the corridor leading to the shuttle.
If that's the case couldn't it just have anticipated Ripley going there since it stopped her before?
After Ripley bumped into it, the thing rounded the corner but didn't pursue her. It was more interested in the contents of the cat box.
The Alien had no way of knowing she would be back. The Alien simply moved on, unfortunately, into the shuttle.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 06, 2019, 09:29:43 AM
Quote from: SM on Dec 06, 2019, 07:21:15 AM
It's hardly quiet but.
It's also, apparently, convenient. We have no idea where it went after killing Parker and Lambert, just that it ended up on B-deck blocking the exit to the airlock.
Convenient for what?
Quote from: Elmazalman on Dec 06, 2019, 07:53:25 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 06, 2019, 05:39:13 PM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Dec 06, 2019, 08:05:51 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 06, 2019, 08:02:03 AM
Where did Ripley actually bump into it and drop Jonesy?
B-Level corridor. The Alien was blocking the corridor leading to the shuttle.
If that's the case couldn't it just have anticipated Ripley going there since it stopped her before?
After Ripley bumped into it, the thing rounded the corner but didn't pursue her. It was more interested in the contents of the cat box.
The Alien had no way of knowing she would be back. The Alien simply moved on, unfortunately, into the shuttle.
I dunno. If you think the Alien is insect level intelligence maybe.
If they were smarter than that I think it could've just anticipated her coming back. She was headed there, the murder machine turned her around, she dropped something, it was quieter in the shuttle than anywhere else. Not seeing a huge leap.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 07, 2019, 01:45:22 AM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Dec 06, 2019, 07:53:25 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 06, 2019, 05:39:13 PM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Dec 06, 2019, 08:05:51 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Dec 06, 2019, 08:02:03 AM
Where did Ripley actually bump into it and drop Jonesy?
B-Level corridor. The Alien was blocking the corridor leading to the shuttle.
If that's the case couldn't it just have anticipated Ripley going there since it stopped her before?
After Ripley bumped into it, the thing rounded the corner but didn't pursue her. It was more interested in the contents of the cat box.
The Alien had no way of knowing she would be back. The Alien simply moved on, unfortunately, into the shuttle.
I dunno. If you think the Alien is insect level intelligence maybe.
If they were smarter than that I think it could've just anticipated her coming back. She was headed there, the murder machine turned her around, she dropped something, it was quieter in the shuttle than anywhere else. Not seeing a huge leap.
I don't think the Alien was bothered by the noise, it may have entered the shuttle because it was attracted to the
darkness - rather than the relative quiet of the
Narcissus.
It chose the lower (much darker) levels of the ship to frequent. C-deck is also noisier than A and B-decks.
The deleted shots of the Alien in the corridor, show it to be in a relaxed state (until disturbed) - not at all distressed by the klaxons.
Deleted Scenes don't matter, IMO.
Quote from: SM on Dec 06, 2019, 08:33:06 PM
Convenient for what?
Finding a quiet place to have a pint and wait for the whole thing to blow over.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Dec 07, 2019, 02:32:08 AM
Deleted Scenes don't matter, IMO.
They do matter - as long as they don't contradict the content of the final cut.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Dec 07, 2019, 02:32:08 AM
Deleted Scenes don't matter, IMO.
Yeah, get that out of universe noise out of here.
QuoteI don't think the Alien was bothered by the noise, it may have entered the shuttle because it was attracted to the darkness - rather than the relative quiet of the Narcissus.
This is a good point.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 07, 2019, 03:45:18 AM
Quote from: SM on Dec 06, 2019, 08:33:06 PM
Convenient for what?
Finding a quiet place to have a pint and wait for the whole thing to blow over.
This is a better point.
Dallas retreated to the shuttle to get away from all the chaos.
Maybe it's a parallel in regard to the noise and steam.
Quote from: razeak on Dec 08, 2019, 01:59:54 PM
Dallas retreated to the shuttle to get away from all the chaos.
Maybe it's a parallel in regard to the noise and steam.
Bit of a stretch but another parallel being, Ripley & Dallas had sex in the
Narcissus.
Ripley's final encounter with the Alien may have ended in the same manner. Too bad the scenes of the creature peering in and studying the pink form, through the small window set in the door of the locker, weren't filmed.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Dec 08, 2019, 08:38:10 PM
Quote from: razeak on Dec 08, 2019, 01:59:54 PM
Dallas retreated to the shuttle to get away from all the chaos.
Maybe it's a parallel in regard to the noise and steam.
Bit of a stretch but another parallel being, Ripley & Dallas had sex in the Narcissus.
Ripley's final encounter with the Alien may have ended in the same manner. Too bad the scenes of the creature peering in and studying the pink form, through the small window set in the door of the locker, weren't filmed.
It's that lightning rush it does back to the door that I'd like to have seen
I really don't think it's a stretch at all, it's clearly more intelligent than most people give it credit for.
Quote from: Huggs on Dec 08, 2019, 08:46:05 PM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Dec 08, 2019, 08:38:10 PM
Quote from: razeak on Dec 08, 2019, 01:59:54 PM
Dallas retreated to the shuttle to get away from all the chaos.
Maybe it's a parallel in regard to the noise and steam.
Bit of a stretch but another parallel being, Ripley & Dallas had sex in the Narcissus.
Ripley's final encounter with the Alien may have ended in the same manner. Too bad the scenes of the creature peering in and studying the pink form, through the small window set in the door of the locker, weren't filmed.
It's that lightning rush it does back to the door that I'd like to have seen
A follow-up to the earlier meeting between the two (the DC), would have been the Alien pounding the cat box into the shuttle's wall - something else I wish was filmed.
I just wish even the shot from the DC was included, the smack, I greatly prefer it as a transition to Ripley running down the corridor.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Dec 08, 2019, 09:31:14 PM
I just wish even the shot from the DC was included, the smack, I greatly prefer it as a transition to Ripley running down the corridor.
I prefer the version from the 1979 theatrical release, but I don't like the abrupt cut off to the film's score as the scene ends. The DC fixed this - I consider this an improvement.
I actually love that abrupt cut from the music to the sirens and Ripley's panicked breathing. It's anxiety inducing.
Agreed.
I don't get that at all, if anything it takes me out of it because the music cut reminds me I'm watching a film.
Did the 1979 TC version of the scene also end with the smack for Jones? If so, I wonder why the scene was cut short?
Quote from: Elmazalman on Nov 27, 2019, 05:23:25 AM
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 27, 2019, 03:40:17 AM
To answer your initial question, the answer is no. It was in a time of crisis and she only had time to consider herself. Jones is only saved as an afterthought and because he's light enough to carry. Her reaction alone does not prove they died until she blew up the Nostromo.
Spoiler
(https://i.postimg.cc/RhtPMhKP/parker-death-2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wBbFLLkf/parker-death-3.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/GtPk7yk1/parker-death-4.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9f4y3SGb/parker-death-5-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dt4Chv6n/parker-death-6-1.jpg)
Parker was tough ... but not tough enough to survive this level of damage - same with his buddy, Brett.
People survive trauma to their head like sometimes.
Point is that those stills don't prove he died. Also, the scene itself was only a few frames and does not show enough specific damage.
And maybe he was in a shielded compartment that survived the ships destruction and he flew back to LV-223 and fell in some goo and changed into the QueenParkerAlien which then flew back through time to lay eggs on the Derelict one million billion years ago after he fought with elephant Space Jockey.
Quote from: Ash 937 on Dec 09, 2019, 06:24:30 AM
Point is that those stills don't prove he died. Also, the scene itself was only a few frames and does not show enough specific damage.
LOL :laugh: LOL.
Having a chunk of brain violently ripped out defo not enough specific damage.
:laugh:
Quote from: Ash 937 on Dec 09, 2019, 06:24:30 AM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Nov 27, 2019, 05:23:25 AM
Quote from: Ash 937 on Nov 27, 2019, 03:40:17 AM
To answer your initial question, the answer is no. It was in a time of crisis and she only had time to consider herself. Jones is only saved as an afterthought and because he's light enough to carry. Her reaction alone does not prove they died until she blew up the Nostromo.
Spoiler
(https://i.postimg.cc/RhtPMhKP/parker-death-2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wBbFLLkf/parker-death-3.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/GtPk7yk1/parker-death-4.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9f4y3SGb/parker-death-5-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dt4Chv6n/parker-death-6-1.jpg)
Parker was tough ... but not tough enough to survive this level of damage - same with his buddy, Brett.
People survive trauma to their head like sometimes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYmfSbfA5iU
Point is that those stills don't prove he died. Also, the scene itself was only a few frames and does not show enough specific damage.
That fellow didn't have his brain pulled out of his skull. It's cherry picking an extreme example. Your position is not defensible. The final step is just admitting it to yourself :P
I always wandered this considering the fact that both Dallas and Brett were cocooned and taken advantage of after the xenomorph killed them.
I have a theory on why Parker and Lambert were left behind. I think the creature did intend to take them or at least just Lambert. Based on Dan O Bannon's comment and another article, which I can't find, the Alien tried to squeeze Lambert through the air vent but she wouldn't fit hence her dangling the way she was and the creature just gave up and moved on leaving them both behind.
(https://i.ibb.co/N2Y4zQH/fmofl1.jpg)
Jonesy did make Ripley lose some time while searching for him also. That could be a factor in why she at least couldn't intervene in time.
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Jul 01, 2022, 03:00:34 PMJonesy did make Ripley lose some time while searching for him also. That could be a factor in why she at least couldn't intervene in time.
That and she didn't head off running to help them immediately. If Ripley had gone to help them straight away would she have still got to them in time?
Quote from: xeno_alpha_07 on Jul 01, 2022, 03:06:49 PMQuote from: BigDaddyJohn on Jul 01, 2022, 03:00:34 PMJonesy did make Ripley lose some time while searching for him also. That could be a factor in why she at least couldn't intervene in time.
That and she didn't head off running to help them immediately. If Ripley had gone to help them straight away would she have still got to them in time?
Maybe for Lambert. I think Parker would've already been toasted.
Quote from: Valaquen on Nov 27, 2019, 04:45:44 PMQuote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Nov 25, 2019, 11:58:28 AMTheory: It was aware the Nostromo wasn't a safe place anymore, and retreated to the Narcissus.
That would be wildly precognitive of it.
The real reason is that the filmmakers wanted us to see the bodies. But it's fun to read everyone's in-universe speculations :)
Indeed. I don't think the Alien would be able to distinguish between the Nostromo and the Narcissus. If anything, the Narcissus was just a quieter place to be rather than the roaring racket of the evacuation alarms and exploding engineering.
I stand by what I wrote, they can understand electricity, who's to say they don't understand a countdown as well? A place becoming unsafe. Further films corroborate this extensive level of intelligence.
Quote from: xeno_alpha_07 on Jul 01, 2022, 02:46:11 PMI have a theory on why Parker and Lambert were left behind. I think the creature did intend to take them or at least just Lambert. Based on Dan O Bannon's comment and another article, which I can't find, the Alien tried to squeeze Lambert through the air vent but she wouldn't fit hence her dangling the way she was and the creature just gave up and moved on leaving them both behind.
(https://i.ibb.co/N2Y4zQH/fmofl1.jpg)
Problem is, if the creature was determined to take both bodies, it could've used the doorway Parker's body was slumped next to, instead of the airshaft.
(https://i.imgur.com/vbQES0B.jpg)
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 01, 2022, 08:34:29 PMI stand by what I wrote, they can understand electricity, who's to say they don't understand a countdown as well? A place becoming unsafe. Further films corroborate this extensive level of intelligence.
But as someone else said, the Queen hangs around the atmosphere processor whilst the alarms are going off and it's blowing up. Only the presence of Ripley and her antics with the rifle and flamer cause her to move and pursue. Otherwise, I think she and the rest of them would have sat there oblivious.
Oh yeah... Aliens lol
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 01, 2022, 08:34:29 PMI stand by what I wrote, they can understand electricity, who's to say they don't understand a countdown as well? A place becoming unsafe. Further films corroborate this extensive level of intelligence.
But the countdown hadn't even started. Even if it did understand, how would it be relevant to Parker and Lambert?
Further films absolutely do not corroborate that level of intelligence. Two later films explicitly show Aliens hanging around while shit exploded/crashes around then while alarms go off.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 03, 2022, 07:18:51 PMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 01, 2022, 08:34:29 PMI stand by what I wrote, they can understand electricity, who's to say they don't understand a countdown as well? A place becoming unsafe. Further films corroborate this extensive level of intelligence.
But the countdown hadn't even started. Even if it did understand, how would it be relevant to Parker and Lambert?
Further films absolutely do not corroborate that level of intelligence. Two later films explicitly show Aliens hanging around while shit exploded/crashes around then while alarms go off.
I agree. Even in the first film the Alien cocoons Dallas and Brett. In Aliens Hadley's Hope is decimated by a nuke and the aliens never escaped. In Resurrection the aliens stuck around on the Auriga until the ship collided with Earth. There are multiple examples of xenomorphs and other Aliens lingering around at the worst possible times getting destroyed without any knowledge of a countdown or escape.
The countdown hadn't started? My mistake. To be fair Aliens do have a habit of being stowaways though.
Aliens 1986, like it's comedy of errors though, did have a habit of making them dumb when the plot required it and smart when the plot required it.
They were meant to scuttle the ship together after they got the coolant.
"It was quiet" makes the most sense for why it ended up in the shuttle. I imagine the Hadley hive would've relocated if it wasn't so established.
Or just trying to ambush Ripley. But he did appear to be having a nice nap.
I doubt any Alien could outrun the atmosphere processor blast in time even if they knew.
Yeah Big Chap wasn't ambushing shit, dude wanted a nap. If Ripley hadn't sprayed it with pesticide it might've ignored her completely for the rest of the trip.
I'm not suggesting that they could've outrun it, just that they might have also moved somewhere quieter.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 03, 2022, 07:52:36 PMThey were meant to scuttle the ship together after they got the coolant.
What did they need the coolant for? Weren't there three cryotubes on the shuttle?
Shits and giggles apparently. Maybe it doubles as happy gas?
Quote from: Local TroubleWhat did they need the coolant for? Weren't there three cryotubes on the shuttle?
Maybe Graham knows?
I don't believe the Alien hid in the shuttle because it knew or sensed danger. It may've been looking for a quieter place to rest (or die?). The interior of the shuttle (at that time) was also much darker than the ship's corridors - the creature appears to have an affinity for the dark.
It was just plain bad luck it happened to be in there - as it was earlier, in the corridor, blocking the shuttle's access from Ripley.
I always found that part disorientating.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 04, 2022, 08:59:45 AMI always found that part disorientating.
The flashing lights?
Knowing what direction Ripley was going, or the Alien either, but then I think that's kinda the point.
Me too. But it does help you get in Ripley shoes indeed. You struggle to get where you want and you feel it.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 03, 2022, 08:36:07 PMQuote from: SiL on Jul 03, 2022, 07:52:36 PMThey were meant to scuttle the ship together after they got the coolant.
What did they need the coolant for? Weren't there three cryotubes on the shuttle?
I just watched this scene on the theatrical cut VHS.
The quote is:
Ripley. "We're gonna need coolant for the air support system..."
Ripley "You two go down get all the coolant you can carry..."
Ripley "I'll get the shuttle ready"
It's curious to me Ripley would know you need coolant for the air support system. One would think Parker being an engineer would be the one to know this?
I imagine they all know.
Local Trouble is wondering why they need to bother since the "official" blueprints book added a third cryotube that makes no sense to be there, which was a source of much derision when it came out.
What bothers me is that did Ripley stilll need that coolant after Parker and Lambert were killed ? I don't remember her carrying any
Quote from: Kradan on Jul 06, 2022, 09:05:07 PMWhat bothers me is that did Ripley stilll need that coolant after Parker and Lambert were killed ? I don't remember her carrying any
Nope. And that's because they only needed the coolant when someone was going to be awake and breathing the whole time.
Quote from: Kradan on Jul 06, 2022, 09:05:07 PMWhat bothers me is that did Ripley stilll need that coolant after Parker and Lambert were killed ? I don't remember her carrying any
What I got from it is: Only one cryo is working and the coolant is for keeping the life support working, so the other two can eat and breath air while they wait to get some sleep in the cryo, they most likely going to take turns. To keep 2 people extra alive for a so long journey they need all the coolant.
Both tubes worked, but there were three people. Someone was going to have to stay awake the whole time.
So if it did take 57 years for Ripley to be found, the one who would stay awake would be... dead ?
Yeah. That's why Ripley said they'd be taking their chances. Even then, she was only expecting it to be a scant six weeks until she reached the frontier and the network would hopefully pick her up.
People forget that the Alien franchise treats space as vast and sparsely populated and dedicated life boats don't make much sense.
The shuttle had to have an FTL drive though, right? I highly doubt it would have been able to reach the core systems at sublight speeds in only 57 years. Zeta II Reticuli is nearly 40 light years away.
My understanding of physics isn't good enough to answer, but since the Nostromo was going FTL and the Narcissus only slowed down to escape it, it might not have needed its own FTL drive - it would've been going FTL already.
Quote from: Kradan on Jul 06, 2022, 09:05:07 PMWhat bothers me is that did Ripley stilll need that coolant after Parker and Lambert were killed ? I don't remember her carrying any
She does in the comic book - and the self-destruct is set
before Parker & Lambert are killed.
Quote from: Darwinsgirl on Jul 06, 2022, 07:37:08 PMIt's curious to me Ripley would know you need coolant for the air support system. One would think Parker being an engineer would be the one to know this?
It's also curious that Ripley is the one wiring up Ash's head, instead of Parker - but that does tie in later, with A3 (when she accesses Bishop's memory).
In the novel, I think it's Parker that wires up the head, instead?
I don't see why being a ship engineer means he'd necessarily know how to wire an android. They're entirely different fields.
Ripley doesn't grab coolant in the comic, she grabs the fuel from the flamethrower (you see her switching the tanks later).
She does set the countdown before - from the bridge, which is drawn suspiciously like the engine room.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 07, 2022, 03:25:48 AMI don't see why being a ship engineer means he'd necessarily know how to wire an android. They're entirely different fields.
Ripley doesn't grab coolant in the comic, she grabs the fuel from the flamethrower (you see her switching the tanks later).
She does set the countdown before - from the bridge, which is drawn suspiciously like the engine room.
It's a coolant bottle. The same bottles Parker & Lambert were collecting. The comic book panel is right next to the one showing Parker & Lambert's bodies. She also has a bottle tucked under arm as she runs off in the next panel.
I just checked the comic. That bottle doesn't make it to the shuttle in the end -- but we do see her adjusting the bottle on the flamethrower while escaping. I thought they forgot about the coolant until I saw that panel and realised what they were trying to show.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 07, 2022, 03:43:03 AMI just checked the comic. That bottle doesn't make it to the shuttle in the end -- but we do see her adjusting the bottle on the flamethrower while escaping. I thought they forgot about the coolant until I saw that panel and realised what they were trying to show.
She isn't adjusting anything. It's the way she's holding the incinerator unit - one hand on the trigger, the other on the bottle.
Yes, the bottle she took disappears before she reaches the shuttle, but that's a continuity error - the comic is littered with them - e.g. Dallas enters the air shafts with a short sleeved shirt - which changes to long sleeves - when he's ambushed by the Alien.
I mean it's not like the comic panel is in motion, and the cylinders are all drawn the same. The cylinder disappears when she gets to the access corridor and sees the Alien, then when she gets back she's got her hand on the forward bottle.
Easy enough to read it as flamer fuel and not coolant but whatever, this is all a tangent. The way the comic plays out gives An easy way to fix the continuity issue :P
My favourite continuity issue in the comic is the Alien's size. Man sized? f**king giant? Whatever makes the panel pop.
As you said yourself; the alternating size of the adult Alien was, perhaps, done for effect. It makes sense to make it massive (Queen-sized) for its first appearance.
Quote from: Darwinsgirl on Jul 06, 2022, 07:37:08 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Jul 03, 2022, 08:36:07 PMQuote from: SiL on Jul 03, 2022, 07:52:36 PMThey were meant to scuttle the ship together after they got the coolant.
What did they need the coolant for? Weren't there three cryotubes on the shuttle?
I just watched this scene on the theatrical cut VHS.
The quote is:
Ripley. "We're gonna need coolant for the air support system..."
Ripley "You two go down get all the coolant you can carry..."
Ripley "I'll get the shuttle ready"
It's curious to me Ripley would know you need coolant for the air support system. One would think Parker being an engineer would be the one to know this?
In general, Ripley knows how alot of stuff works almost straight off the bat. I'm always struck how she can get the APC up and running in Aliens; knows how the EEV's medical scanning system works in Alien 3; knows how to pilot the Betty despite never flying that particular ship before in Alien Resurrection. The only time we ever see her learning something new is with the pulse rifle and Hick's brief tutorial.
Most of those can be explained - learning heavy machinery operation kind of covers the APC, probably had a safety brief before boarding the Sulaco (she seemed to think Burke could sabotage the cryotubes so their operation it's probably common knowledge) - but the Betty flying is an arse pull if ever there was one. She's not a pilot.
Quote from: Building Better Worlds on Jul 07, 2022, 11:55:37 PMQuote from: Darwinsgirl on Jul 06, 2022, 07:37:08 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Jul 03, 2022, 08:36:07 PMQuote from: SiL on Jul 03, 2022, 07:52:36 PMThey were meant to scuttle the ship together after they got the coolant.
What did they need the coolant for? Weren't there three cryotubes on the shuttle?
I just watched this scene on the theatrical cut VHS.
The quote is:
Ripley. "We're gonna need coolant for the air support system..."
Ripley "You two go down get all the coolant you can carry..."
Ripley "I'll get the shuttle ready"
It's curious to me Ripley would know you need coolant for the air support system. One would think Parker being an engineer would be the one to know this?
In general, Ripley knows how alot of stuff works almost straight off the bat. I'm always struck how she can get the APC up and running in Aliens; knows how the EEV's medical scanning system works in Alien 3; knows how to pilot the Betty despite never flying that particular ship before in Alien Resurrection. The only time we ever see her learning something new is with the pulse rifle and Hick's brief tutorial.
She's obviously a bot.
Nah, she just put these couple of weeks on Gateway station to good use
The Ash circuit reactivation I always assumed came from another field of work she previously was in, maybe.
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Jul 09, 2022, 11:19:39 AMThe Ash circuit reactivation I always assumed came from another field of work she previously was in, maybe.
There's the ("
My Johnson's what's happening.") scene with Parker & Brett. She's on the bridge with Lambert - both repairing circuitry / wiring overhead (Lambert gets something else useful to do in the scene).
Quote from: Elmazalman on Jul 09, 2022, 12:31:22 PMQuote from: BigDaddyJohn on Jul 09, 2022, 11:19:39 AMThe Ash circuit reactivation I always assumed came from another field of work she previously was in, maybe.
There's the ("My Johnson's what's happening.") scene with Parker & Brett. She's on the bridge with Lambert - both repairing circuitry / wiring overhead (Lambert gets something else useful to do in the scene).
Oh yes of course. Forgot about that.
Quote from: Kradan on Jul 08, 2022, 04:14:30 PMNah, she just put these couple of weeks on Gateway station to good use
We need Ridley to come out and insist that Ripley is actually a robot. ;D
I did not know that in one of the versions of Lambert's death (https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/debate-loving-lambert/), his fate is similar to that of the Newborn from Resurrection. :o
(https://i.ibb.co/RgYNnc9/Screenshot-20220718-161234.jpg)
That reminds me more of a similar scene in Jason X :laugh:
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 18, 2022, 08:19:30 PMI did not know that in one of the versions of Lambert's death (https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/debate-loving-lambert/), his fate is similar to that of the Newborn from Resurrection. :o
https://i.ibb.co/RgYNnc9/Screenshot-20220718-161234.jpg
It was also how General Perez was supposed to die as well before they changed it to the Newborn.
Lambert's version of this death was originally to take place during the Airlock sequence.
Faust, the "unimaginative tech" in O'Bannon's draft, got crushed by the inner door closing on him as the Alien escaped. I'm guessing that was going to go to Lambert?
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 18, 2022, 08:19:30 PMI did not know that in one of the versions of Lambert's death (https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/debate-loving-lambert/), his fate is similar to that of the Newborn from Resurrection. :o
https://i.ibb.co/RgYNnc9/Screenshot-20220718-161234.jpg
You gotta get all the good books, then. Lots of that stuff.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 18, 2022, 09:51:59 PMFaust, the "unimaginative tech" in O'Bannon's draft, got crushed by the inner door closing on him as the Alien escaped. I'm guessing that was going to go to Lambert?
I'm not sure, to be honest, but it is possible. Maybe in an earlier draft, which we haven't seen yet, it's Parker or Lambert that is crushed by the inner door. But that is just a guess. In the unrevised June 1978 hill & Giler draft, Parker has a similar fate being sucked against the gap in the hatch but doesn't get sucked out into space through the acid hole. Ripley has to prize him off the hatch to escape. I'm guessing this is where Ridley got the idea for Lambert to be sucked out into space came from?