The Last of Us: Part II

[Kimarhi]

I called the first twist way before the spoiler dump, but when and how it was done felt pretty blah.  I literally felt no emotion when it happened.

Hoping the rest of the game makes up for it.



Man vs Man is kind of the point of most zombie fiction.  It is kind of the point of most outbreak fiction tbh, because it always calls back to man's most dangerous enemy being himself.  Only those that band together and put the good of the group over themselves survive OR those that only look after themselves and embrace the true wild nature of men survive. 

You can see how stupid people got when corona tested them.  Imagine how bad it would get if things that could eat your face were running around.  I think I would get bored if there were ONLY infected to fight in the game. 

[PredBabe]

Yeah I'm a few hours into TLOU Part II as well, I lost some hype for the game right before release and even considered returning the game.


But I gotta say the graphics are gorgeous, and I agree thats it's really impressive for being a PS4 title. The amount of detail to the environments is something I do always enjoy with Naughty Dog games and it's even more enhanced this time around. The gameplay has also been polished.

Spoiler

I really loved the first twenty minutes or so where we got to see Joel discuss the events of the last game from his perspective  to his brother. Then the scene where he plays a song for Ellie was very moving- especially knowing that they were going to do him real dirty with this sequel.

I always had suspicions that he would be killed off if they did a sequel, just didn't know how they would do it and, even now as I play the game, it was surprising to see how early on it takes place. I get where fans are coming from with saying he deserved better and to an extent I agree, but I also get that this game is revolving in a world that is very ruthless... so I guess in a sense it is sort of fitting.

That said, so far my biggest gripe is the teenage love triangle that really seems to be a focus with Ellie and Dina. I just think it is a really lame storyline for ND to follow through with, especially compared to the impressive character personalities and development from the first game.

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[Kimarhi]

Spoiler

The main thing the game is missing is Joel and Ellie interaction that made the first game famous.  I would have thought that they would have killed him later in the game or even a third game and instead have focused on a story involving Jackson and Tommy/Joel/Ellie's growing relationship in the years after the first game as The Lie sat and festered.  Alas this is only ever covered in flashbacks, which when the two of them are together are the best parts of the game so far.  It really seems like we jumped from the opening chapter in TLOU to like chapter three or four.

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That said, it isn't as bad as the people who are killing it online are saying it is.  It would be worth playing just for the environments alone.  In no media that I can recall has a decaying human society reclaimed by earth looked better and more detailed. 

Spoiler

I'm right at the switch, we will see how the story goes from here, even though I already have a hunch.

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I don't like the deliberately misleading trailer

Spoiler

that shows Joel being the one keeping Ellie from going after the WLF when it wasn't.  Sort of feels like False Advertising, and would deliberately give viewers the expectation that Joel would be in the game much longer than he actually was.

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[Kimo]

Just finished this game and I'm glad I kept away from spoilers, and I went in to this game only seeing the first main trailer. I can see now, why some fans are gunna be split in the middle with how this game pans out, especially in the middle of the game were it sort of does a U-turn. But for me it worked and I loved it. The game is brutal, it don't mess around. You will get to like some of the side characters on both sides. only to have them killed off like the lives ment nothing.

Abby
Loved this character I would of been happy if the game was all about her story. She became the Jaime lannister of this universe. Basically you hate her at the start because of what she does. But later in the game you start to like her, and you suddenly realise she is not the villain in this story. Just a person who has been dealt a pack of cards similar to Ellie's.

Spoiler

So in the middle of the game you start to play mostly as Abby. this is were it's either gunna make or break the game for some.

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Ellie
She's badass as usual.. But seeing her from Abby's point of view she

Spoiler

is the villain of Abby's story. Loved it when you play as Abby and you have to fight Ellie. You really get to see how scary Ellie can be in combat if you have to fight her.

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Joel

Spoiler

so I was expecting Joel to die at some point, but not that early in the game. However it makes sense as you play through the game, why he was killed off early. You feel for Ellie and Tommy for Joel's death but later in the game you come to realise his death was justified by Abby's actions. At least we got to interact with him in a couple of flashback missions that I thought were really good.

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Tommy.

Spoiler

If the do a part3 I think Tommy should be the one who's after revenge for Joel. I think Ellie story with Abby is complete. But seriously if the do a part 3 were can this story go? I mean I don't want to see Ellie and Abby fighting each other again. Only person to carry on Joel's revenge is Tommy.

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[dave1978]

Just starting my play through, happy so far.  I finished the Las of us remastered the week before, great game but at the end woth what happened i felt anger towards Joel and what he did and the lie he told.  So going into No 2 i had no big attachment to Joel

[Kimarhi]

I actually felt Joel was pretty justified in what he did.  Yes he chose a greedy reason to do so, but there is literally NO infrastructure in the US outside of a few civilian controlled cities, and the handful of fedra run qz zones that continue to fall because they of their heavy handed attempt at ruling.


So lets say the fireflies WERE able to develop a vaccine.............how would they get it to where it needed to go?  How would it get into mass production?  What happened when Fedra found out that the fireflies had a cure?  The fireflies plan had almost a zero percent chance of succeeding anyways so if Joel just let them kill her he would be doing it without any guarantee that the vaccine would survive.

Also developing vaccines (do fungal infections get vaccines, I dunno) isn't just finding an infection and developing a cure right away, its hit or miss and has to be developed over time with many different test subjects.  All this seems way over the capability of the fireflies, who were in the process of basically running away from Fedra and losing half their crew when Joel brought Ellie to them. 

Killing Ellie for the cure would've been a waste, it would've been a hail mary on a mile long football field. 

[Xenoscream]

After I finished this game I was thinking about it constantly for a few days.

Still not sure how I'd rate it; it's not a 10/10 though.

Just a few thoughts:

On the bit at the start

Spoiler

I get why people are a bit pissed about HOW Joel died, it was lazy / sloppy writing to have him literally bump into the person who wanted him dead, then follow her back to her crew, and announce who he was to everyone. Joel in the first game would never have trusted a stranger and most likely wouldn't have even tried to save Abby at the start. I get they wanted to kill of Joel, but it was very poorly set-up, just like Tommy and Ellie being left alive and being there to witness Joel's death. Honestly fixing how this happened would have gone a long way to improve the game,

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Good bits:

Spoiler

All flashbacks with Joel and Ellie were great and that final final bit was heartbreaking in a good way; loved it. I actually did warm up to Abby and liked her, all through her story I was hoping she would mature to the point she would let Ellie go; which she did and I was very relieved about that.

I may be in the minority here but I was also glad that Ellie in turn let her go at the end, to me the last section of the game wasn't about Abby, and it was clear that a lot of Ellie's issues were that she had been a shit daughter to Joel, and in those final moments it seemed to me she finally shifted her focus to the last good memory she had with him where they reconciled and essentially both declared their unconditional love for each other (Joel: I'm cool with you being gay and I'd do it all again even though you hate me. Ellie: Deep down I have already forgiven you) When she reached that point Abby was a non factor in her life and killer her was meaningless.

Gameplay was great although the constant scavenging did start to wear on me

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Bad bits: PACING / structure

Spoiler

It's all over the place, and the overuse of flashbacks I think hurt the game. I think cutting out most of Abby's flashbacks would have been fine, they didn't really add much and were forgettable for the most part. I think a superior way of structuring the game would have been playing Day 1 Abby, then Day 1 Ellie and then alternating. This would have given more impact to the deaths of Abby's friends as you would not have known they were already going to die when playing as Abby - let's face it when you know a character is going to bite it you are less invested in them

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Ultimately I kind of wish we got a different story, the futility of revenge isn't new and it's been done well many times before. I do think this is better than most, but it falls short of being the best / a defining moment. Many times when I was playing and feeling it was great I was thinking "imagine all of this in a more satisfying story".

Still have mixed feeling but the fact it's inspired such a length post from me must mean something, it can't be for nothing.

[Stompy the Perfect Xeno]

I peeked in and i've seen enough. This game does not exist. 

And all this social propaganda....among other things, men being overpowered by 100 pound girls...

Spoiler

At least Abby is a She-Hulk.....and is getting a sex scene.

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Spoiler

Joel still lives. Period. 

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[Kimarhi]

I thought Abby's build made sense.  She's out for revenge, and is paramilitary trained (twice over by both the fireflies and the WLF), and in one of the few groups where access to gym equipment and food needed to have that build exist.  Knowing her motivations, it makes sense for her to try and get any kind of one up that she could.



Unless you are playing Ellie like a madman, she is not meant to overpower people. 


TLOU2 wasn't a bad game, it lacks the spark of what made the first game great imo, but it still remains a solid 8/10.  Even if you don't like the story, the world building remains top notch as does the music and gameplay.  It's always going to suffer from what Alien 3 did, but I ended up liking that film, just like I did this game. 

[PredBabe]

After beating the game I'd have to rate TLOU Part II a weak 7/10. For reference, I rank the first game a 9/10.

I was thoroughly impressed with the game's graphics, and details in the gameplay and environments. However, it has a ridiculously bloated story that's chopped up and jumps around in timeline. The ending even felt rushed, which is a crazy thing to say considering the game takes around 24 hours to play through.

I typically love Naughty Dog's work and I totally get the story they were going for but it didn't work for me and that is mostly because it is a story that needed to be told over the course of two games rather than one.

Spoiler

The entire first half of the game should have revolved around Joel and Ellie working through the emotional aftermath of the ending from the first game. This could include some of the flashbacks that were already presented as well as some added interactions and cutscenes for the sake of fleshing it all out in more present times rather than constant flashbacks.

Then, they could have gone about the Abby angle in one of two ways, either by introducing her in a similar fashion to how they introduced her in this game only more towards the end and then ending the first game with Joel's death. Or they could have ended the story of Joel and Ellie, with Ellie saying she wants to work on forgiving Joel, before jumping into Abby's seemingly random story and slowly begin to learn her intentions of wanting to kill Joel and leave it as a sort of cliffhanger for the third game to follow up on. Then the third game would revolve around Joel's death and Ellie's vengeance.

I do really love Abby as a character and also wish they would have played up on the threat of the Scars/Seraphites. I also wish we could have seen more of Santa Barbara and the survivors that reside there.

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The gameplay itself was fun and gruesome which I completely expected and enjoyed. But the story within this game is so bleak and weak at times that I really have no interest in replaying the game any time soon- if ever.

[Kimarhi]

That's my main complaint about this game, it feels like the third in a series instead of the second.  The best "level" might be the joel/Ellie birthday flashback as it is the only part that truly captures the essence of the original.

I think the story makes more sense on another playthrough, even tho the chapters should've alternated between the two perspectives.

I'm still holding at an 8.

[chopperXgill]

Love the game, love the decisions they made. Really made me think wow anyone is expendable this time around. Love the ending, it definitely showed that the little girl that Joel loved in part 1 is still in there deep down. I played 1 & 2 back to back, it really makes sense story wise. I hope they make a 3rd and wrap it up nicely.

[PredBabe]

That's my main complaint about this game, it feels like the third in a series instead of the second.  The best "level" might be the joel/Ellie birthday flashback as it is the only part that truly captures the essence of the original.

I think the story makes more sense on another playthrough, even tho the chapters should've alternated between the two perspectives.

I'm still holding at an 8.

Yeah I loved the birthday flashback as well. It captured all the charm that the entire first game had with Ellie and Joel's budding relationship.

I may eventually play through Part II again but, for now, I have no urge to revisit the game.
But I agree that a lot of the events in this game felt more like it should have been in the third game of a trilogy. I'm not even sure how they would go about a third game because of the decisions made with Part II.

While I am curious to hear of a follow up to Abby and Lev, I  think there would be a lot of rehashed storylines, most of which I don't care to revisit after the handling of everything.

[Kimarhi]

Abby and Lev I think were directly meant to shadow Joel and Ellie from the first game. 


For a third I'd say that its most likely that Abby reunites with the fireflies and tries to find Ellie for a cure (but maybe decides to not follow through with it because everybody involved in the second game has suffered enough) or that some other third party is involved.

I think a third faction that we haven't really seen much about is FEDRA.

Maybe they get a whiff of Ellie's whereabouts and go after her and you get a story from their perspective.  Could be the last chance for their leadership to come out of the situation with a W if they can farm a cure.

I had briefly come up with a scenario in my head with whoever the lead hunter is with Fedra tasked with finding Ellie spends the whole game chasing her (as lets say she has found a want to live life perhaps with Dina and family), only for the final twist to be the fedra hunter spending all game chasing ellie only for it to be revealed at the very end that he was also immune.


I still don't know whether or not it would be better for it to be revealed that he was concealing it all along, or at the very end in some skirmish that he was bitten and decides after discovering he was immune he would turn himself in so Ellie could live free. 

[PredBabe]

Abby and Lev I think were directly meant to shadow Joel and Ellie from the first game. 


For a third I'd say that its most likely that Abby reunites with the fireflies and tries to find Ellie for a cure (but maybe decides to not follow through with it because everybody involved in the second game has suffered enough) or that some other third party is involved.

I think a third faction that we haven't really seen much about is FEDRA.

Maybe they get a whiff of Ellie's whereabouts and go after her and you get a story from their perspective.  Could be the last chance for their leadership to come out of the situation with a W if they can farm a cure.

I had briefly come up with a scenario in my head with whoever the lead hunter is with Fedra tasked with finding Ellie spends the whole game chasing her (as lets say she has found a want to live life perhaps with Dina and family), only for the final twist to be the fedra hunter spending all game chasing ellie only for it to be revealed at the very end that he was also immune.


I still don't know whether or not it would be better for it to be revealed that he was concealing it all along, or at the very end in some skirmish that he was bitten and decides after discovering he was immune he would turn himself in so Ellie could live free. 

Yeah, I picked up on the parallel between Abby and Lev's relationship to Joel and Ellie's.


I like the idea of another featured character having immunity to the affects of the fungus.

Spoiler

I was a bit disappointed that the rumor of the Scars having immunity wasn't actually a thing. The rumor claimed that the Seraphites were a cult that saw themselves as people who were "saved" in a sense. While others, who didn't have the immunity (amongst other things), were "sinners". Could have made for an interesting take.

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I always found it hard to believe that Ellie is the only person who has immunity. Just like it's hard to believe that Joel killed the one and only surgeon who could perform the surgery to create a cure.

Your idea of a leader of another faction having immunity is interesting though. Either direction you mentioned could make for some fun storytelling and is a bit more of an endearing way to involve Ellie in a sequel, rather than her dragging out another vengeance storyline.

Spoiler

I say this because of the way Part II leaves us hanging with Tommy's desire for vengeance and spat with Ellie.

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