What are some changes in the AVP movies you would have made to improve the movie or movies more to your liking ?
Better lighting for AVPR, chestburster barfing und dreadlock-rasta-alien aside, I would have both of the movies set in space and would not have them connected like the two we got.
For the first i would have kept the plot of archeologists and billionaire sponsor searching ancient ruins but set it in space on the edge of the frontier where the ruins were discovered by settlers. Have the biollionaire also search for his legacy and trying to make a name for himself, but this time not an old one on the deadbed but why not a younger one trying to make a name for himself. Let him be one of multiple heirs to a corporate empire, with too much money, time and a sense for adventure.
I would skip the whole teenage predators on their first hunt angle. Just take a regular hunting party of 5 predators visiting an ancient hunting ground.
Also no shape shifting pyramid, outdoor action this time.
I would give the predators the naginata like weapons they use in some of the comics. It seems to be the perfect weapon to engage an alien in close combat. The reach of a spear, a heavy blade to cut of limbs, tails and heads, what's not to like. Makes a lot more sense than longer wristblades or a tiny spear.
Keep the acid blood a problem for the predators. Maybe not to the point it eats through their armor and weapons like in the first AVP, but eventually the gear should melt.
Of course make it as an R rated movie.
What are some of the changes you would have made?
I think there is already a few threads on this but to answer:
For the first film.
Better character development.
Better creature designs.
Original life-cycle.
Maybe a different setting, such as an ice planet.
R-Rated
Better and natural fighting between the species.
No Queen, just have the eggs already in the pyramid in stasis ready for the hunt. (Not that I found the Queen to be bad, it is just so over-used in the media that its no longer effective)
Second movie.
Same as above.
Predalien main antagonist, but not a queen and vomiting life-cycle.
Same setting as above as well.
Maybe a Queen about somewhere laying the eggs but isn't the active or pursuing threat.
For AVPR
Have the entire first 10 minutes of the film only focus on the Predalien growing and stalking the Predators on the scout ship no humans whatsoever, Right after the scout ship detaches from the main ship like in the Unrated opening sequence one of the Predators returns to perform on "Autopsy" on Scar only to see the chest-bursting wound and alert the others to keep an eye out and search the ship, time lapse to them nearing earth to begin another hunt and Chet still not fully grown but in like a smaller warrior stage fast, sneaky and cunning outsmarting the Preds and have him be the one to cause the ship to go down have two of the surviving Predators send the distress signal which Wolf answers
Introduce human characters and actually flesh them out a bit, Skip the whole Teenage drama and keep the film surrounding Kelly, Dallas and the Sheriff OWLF also arrives looking for the downed ship and forbids townsfolk from entering the woods or searching for Buddy and his kid. Have OWLF find an unconscious Buddy and kid and dead facehuggers and keep them quarantined until the inevitable happens and chestbursters are captured.
Predalien now fully grown attacks OWLF camp with Alien warriors prompting Military to intercede and begin trying to contain the Xenos.
Wolf and The remaining Predators duke it out with Xenos in the sewers one Predator killed in the fray
Main cast saves OWLF leader from certain demise and are educated on the Predator and are given intel regarding the downed ship
Carnage continues to ensue Wolf and Predalien have final battle near Downtown rather then hospital. Survivors escape Via Helicopter and sequel is set up with the Chestbursters OWLF captured earlier in the film.
I would have gave all the aliens 3 foot long dongs.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 12, 2018, 08:29:49 AM
I would have gave all the aliens 3 foot long dongs.
One would assume their gigantic phallic heads would already satisfy the most fanatic dong enthusiasts. But it seems it's never enough for some people ;D
Quote from: TheKurgan on Nov 12, 2018, 09:26:44 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 12, 2018, 08:29:49 AM
I would have gave all the aliens 3 foot long dongs.
One would assume their gigantic phallic heads would already satisfy the most fanatic dong enthusiasts. But it seems it's never enough for some people ;D
5 Stars. * * * * * for your astute observation TheKurgan. You gave me my first smile this morning. :D
Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 12, 2018, 08:29:49 AM
I would have gave all the aliens 3 foot long dongs.
Could this have saved Covenant?
Aliens + Predators + Space Marines.
Quote from: SM on Nov 13, 2018, 01:26:21 AM
Aliens + Predators + Space Marines.
One day, I hope.
Quote from: SM on Nov 13, 2018, 01:26:21 AM
Aliens + Predators + Space Marines.
So much this.
Quote from: SM on Nov 13, 2018, 01:26:21 AM
Aliens + Predators + Space Marines.
That's the spirit
Really that's the basics of all folk want from an Alien vs. Predator film.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 14, 2018, 08:44:01 AM
Really that's the basics of all folk want from an Alien vs. Predator film.
The basics, yeah, but if they could turn that something worth watching, that'd be great.
Don't make the Marines cannon fodder for the two antagonists. Give us a good sense of their characters and establish that they are alone on a far-off planet.
The Aliens and the Predators should be treated as antagonists. None of this "Predators work with humans" crap. That's why we have so much sh*tty fanfiction about Mary Sue falling in love with a Predator.
And good morning, everyone.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 14, 2018, 08:44:01 AM
Really that's the basics of all folk want from an Alien vs. Predator film.
Don't really agree with that. While I won't mind it, I also would simply like to see a decent horror version of it in the same vein as the first movie. All I have seen for the past few decades in alien or AVP media is colonial marines. The games had them, the comics had them, the novels had them. One of the reasons why Isolation was so good was that it focused on the first film instead of the second. Cameron's movie was brilliant but it is emulated too much.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Nov 14, 2018, 05:09:00 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 14, 2018, 08:44:01 AM
Really that's the basics of all folk want from an Alien vs. Predator film.
Don't really agree with that. While I won't mind it, I also would simply like to see a decent horror version of it in the same vein as the first movie. All I have seen for the past few decades in alien or AVP media is colonial marines. The games had them, the comics had them, the novels had them. One of the reasons why Isolation was so good was that it focused on the first film instead of the second. Cameron's movie was brilliant but it is emulated too much.
Iam not sure if you can make a real horror movie out of AVP. Alien sure, to a lesser extend also Predator. But i think it would be hard to get both creatures into a horror movie without making it too overcrowded.
We had civilians or at least ill prepared humans getting helplessly slaughtered in the last two movies. I would love to see them put up a fight the next time.
I think it can be done, a movie with the tone of the first Alien but with both creatures, something suspenful.
What would i change.......... the decision to release them :laugh:
Quote from: TheKurgan on Nov 14, 2018, 05:16:56 PM
Iam not sure if you can make a real horror movie out of AVP.
QuoteAlien sure, to a lesser extend also Predator.
There you go.
I've said it many times, if they want to make a decent AVP then they need to focus on the human characters. And for goodness sake, quit showing the d*mn monsters all the time and get the movie the heck off of earth. I don't want to see aliens running around Silverado's in the mall parking lot while idiots we don't know or care about whine about the pizza being late. Leave that for cheaper horror.
No weak predators or aliens either. They should be an equal physical and intellectual threat to each other, and a horrific death dispensing force of God to any humans that cross paths with them. No partnerships, no bargains, and the humans have limited resources and time. No apc's, no m4's, no pulse rifles, none of that. A magnum revolver maybe, some mining tools, ect. Nothing fancy.
Dachande's partnership aside, I think Prey did it best. No rules, no mercy, no chance. That's what I want to see.
Remove the Predator getting facehugged angle in the first movie. There are so many problems with that.
The second movie needs more light. Remove the pregnancy ward. Have Wolf survive.
Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 26, 2018, 09:37:52 PM
Remove the Predator getting facehugged angle in the first movie. There are so many problems with that.
The second movie needs more light. Remove the pregnancy ward. Have Wolf survive.
That would have been nice...
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/e2ad7508ed06ba08c99a52d668fda63c/tumblr_pdrzzu5J7X1x5540co1_500.gif)
QuoteRemove the Predator getting facehugged angle in the first movie. There are so many problems with that.
The only problem was that the reveal of the PredAlien was in the last frames of the film.
Quote from: SM on Nov 26, 2018, 10:52:01 PM
QuoteRemove the Predator getting facehugged angle in the first movie. There are so many problems with that.
The only problem was that the reveal of the PredAlien was in the last frames of the film.
I think you both are basically saying the same thing. :)
The first film needed a PredAlien - how do you get one if the Predator facehugging is removed?
It needed one?
Ten years of comics and video games and they don't put a PredAlien in an AvP movie?
Seems like the most obvious choice in the world.
I think there was a need for restraint, words of wisdom spoken in the form of "pace yourself" when developing the AvP series, and the Predalien was ultimately the kitchen sink. :-\
They were so restrained there was seven whole minutes of versing in a movie called Alien versus Predator.
And they blew their load in the first 3.
Sadly.
They didn't have David and his fingers to keep the game alive.
Quote from: SM on Nov 27, 2018, 12:57:50 AM
They were so restrained there was seven whole minutes of versing in a movie called Alien versus Predator.
As in the narrative, not throwing everything at it including the kitchen sink... which ultimately would have given more time for the AvP battles.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/wSCAy1zJbcUG4/200w.gif?cid=19f5b51a5bfc9cc9493369344dc91457)
An apt gif considering I have no idea what you just said.
Lol :laugh:
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 27, 2018, 01:30:43 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 27, 2018, 12:57:50 AM
They were so restrained there was seven whole minutes of versing in a movie called Alien versus Predator.
As in the narrative, not throwing everything at it including the kitchen sink... which ultimately would have given more time for the AvP battles.
https://media3.giphy.com/media/wSCAy1zJbcUG4/200w.gif?cid=19f5b51a5bfc9cc9493369344dc91457
The whole facehugging and bursting took up all of a
minute or so of the total plot, how was it detracting from the fighting in the least? ???
My problem with AvP to me was everything was thrown in. So, so many characters introduced. So many concepts. Archeology, genesis of human society, shape shifting pyramids, eggs, facehuggers and a ramped up life cycle, Predators attacking humans, Predators vs Aliens, Predators capturing a Queen, Predators distributing eggs, the human Predator team up, introducing the Pred Alien. To me it doesn't serve the franchise to cram all of this into one movie, so I felt they needed restraint, words of wisdom spoken in the form of "pace yourself" when developing the first film of a series. Take a concept or two, flesh it out and let it breathe!
As a byproduct of this approach, it could have resulted in more AvP battles in the first film.
The long version of AvP goes for 86 minutes plus credits. The backstory flashback exposition stuff takes up less than 90 seconds and you have four characters to worry about - Lex, Weyland, Sebastian and Scar. There was a stack of room for one of the core elements of AvP.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 27, 2018, 11:52:48 AM
My problem with AvP to me was everything was thrown in. So, so many characters introduced. So many concepts. Archeology, genesis of human society, shape shifting pyramids, eggs, facehuggers and a ramped up life cycle, Predators attacking humans, Predators vs Aliens, Predators capturing a Queen, Predators distributing eggs, the human Predator team up, introducing the Pred Alien. To me it doesn't serve the franchise to cram all of this into one movie, so I felt they needed restraint, words of wisdom spoken in the form of "pace yourself" when developing the first film of a series. Take a concept or two, flesh it out and let it breathe!
As a byproduct of this approach, it could have resulted in more AvP battles in the first film.
We got lucky they crammed what they did into the movies, as we'll likely not see a 3rd film. Holding back would've just cost us what little we've got already. One thing AVP didn't feel like to me, was bloated. It felt lacking, in nearly every department.
Quote from: Huggs on Nov 27, 2018, 07:52:35 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 27, 2018, 11:52:48 AM
My problem with AvP to me was everything was thrown in. So, so many characters introduced. So many concepts. Archeology, genesis of human society, shape shifting pyramids, eggs, facehuggers and a ramped up life cycle, Predators attacking humans, Predators vs Aliens, Predators capturing a Queen, Predators distributing eggs, the human Predator team up, introducing the Pred Alien. To me it doesn't serve the franchise to cram all of this into one movie, so I felt they needed restraint, words of wisdom spoken in the form of "pace yourself" when developing the first film of a series. Take a concept or two, flesh it out and let it breathe!
As a byproduct of this approach, it could have resulted in more AvP battles in the first film.
We got lucky they crammed what they did into the movies, as we'll likely not see a 3rd film. Holding back would've just cost us what little we've got already. One thing AVP didn't feel like to me, was bloated. It felt lacking, in nearly every department.
No brother, that movie doesn't make me feel lucky at all, and we should never feel lucky for "cramming".
I never said it was bloated, actually I believe it was thin and rushed. And that's why I think it felt lacking to you, because none of these elements were fleshed out properly like they could have been. If they rather focused on just one or two of these concepts and developed a proper story, it could have been so much more fulfilling imo.
Just the Predators capturing a queen (we see them do it!), harvesting eggs, planting them on a colonized planet and returning in a year to hunt, as the colony is just basically a handful now of people, boarded up, struggling to survive. Wow, that could have been something!
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 27, 2018, 11:52:48 AM
Predators attacking humans, Predators vs Aliens, Predators capturing a Queen, Predators distributing eggs, the human Predator team up, introducing the Pred Alien. To me it doesn't serve the franchise to cram all of this into one movie, so I felt they needed restraint, words of wisdom spoken in the form of "pace yourself" when developing the first film of a series. Take a concept or two, flesh it out and let it breathe!
The film showed "Predators have a Queen and make her lay eggs to hunt" just fine. The heck else are they going to do with the concept? Show a lengthy scene of Predators deliberating the best Queen restraint mechanisms or something?
I think you're really overselling how much time most of the things you listed really needed to be shown properly. The only thing the film actually skimped on was the creature v creature conflict.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 27, 2018, 10:45:33 PM
The film showed "Predators have a Queen and make her lay eggs to hunt" just fine. The heck else are they going to do with the concept? Show a lengthy scene of Predators deliberating the best Queen restraint mechanisms or something?
The hunting party assembling. The gearing up. The actual stalk and hunt for the Queen. The battle! The tactics used to capture her. The tech. Then, honoring of the fallen Yautja who didn't survive the capture. Restraining the queen. Harvesting the eggs, then delivering them to a unsuspecting colonized planet. -Meet the colony.
I'm sorry you can't visualize anything better or thrilling than the 3 minutes we received in AvP.
QuoteI think you're really overselling how much time most of the things you listed really needed to be shown properly. The only thing the film actually skimped on was the creature v creature conflict.
Sorry, but I emphatically disagree with you. Cheers.
QuoteI'm sorry you can't visualize anything better or thrilling than the 3 minutes we received in AvP.
Because of course, that's precisely what he's saying when he says "The only thing the film actually skimped on was the creature v creature conflict."
And you don't really need to stalk and hunt a Queen. They generally just sit there until you piss them off.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 27, 2018, 11:06:41 PM
The hunting party assembling. The gearing up. The actual stalk and hunt for the Queen. The battle! The tactics used to capture her. The tech. Then, honoring of the fallen Yautja who didn't survive the capture. Restraining the queen. Harvesting the eggs, then delivering them to a unsuspecting colonized planet. -Meet the colony.
Which adds what to the plot, exactly? It'd be a cool scene, sure, but in terms of the story you're just padding runtime. You then have the Predators just dropping eggs off -- so why even show the Queen at all in your version?
If you presented that as an outline or a draft of a script my first note would be "ditch them catching the Queen, start with the colony".
Quote from: SM on Nov 27, 2018, 11:17:24 PM
And you don't really need to stalk and hunt a Queen. They generally just sit there until you piss them off.
Why even hunt one? Grow one from birth.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 27, 2018, 11:25:23 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 27, 2018, 11:06:41 PM
The hunting party assembling. The gearing up. The actual stalk and hunt for the Queen. The battle! The tactics used to capture her. The tech. Then, honoring of the fallen Yautja who didn't survive the capture. Restraining the queen. Harvesting the eggs, then delivering them to a unsuspecting colonized planet. -Meet the colony.
Which adds what to the plot, exactly? It'd be a cool scene, sure, but in terms of the story you're just padding runtime. You then have the Predators just dropping eggs off -- so why even show the Queen at all in your version?
"Which adds what to the plot, exactly?" "Padding runtime" Oh, lord have mercy
QuoteIf you presented that as an outline or a draft of a script my first note would be "ditch them catching the Queen, start with the colony".
You should be hired by Fox immediately. You'd fit right in. :P
The thread reads
Changes in the AVP movies you would have made ?, and these are my changes.
If you're just going to have the Predators drop eggs and the Queen doesn't come back, your entire opening scene is a waste of time. That's bad storytelling.
What Anderson showed is what was actually relevant to the plot -- the Predators have a Queen, they make her lay eggs, she gets loose. We don't need anything more than that. How she got there is entirely irrelevant to the plot of the film.
It's not that I can't imagine anything "more exciting" than what Anderson put in the film regarding the Queen -- I just can't imagine anything that would actually be relevant and contribute more than fan service.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 27, 2018, 11:45:23 PM
If you're just going to have the Predators drop eggs and the Queen doesn't come back, your entire opening scene is a waste of time. That's bad storytelling.
You think my idea is bad storytelling. I think you lack vision, and a 15 minute atmospheric opening with striking visuals with no human dialog of the events I described, could be amazing in my book.
No one will budge here, so we just agree to disagree. Cheers.
Didn't say it couldn't be an amazing scene.
It would just be completely irrelevant to the story you've described and a pointless waste of time and resources for something "cool". And you've pretty much agreed with me when your sole defense is "it would be amazing".
If it's not contributing to the plot, take it out and come up with a cool, atmospheric scene that does.
I couldn't disagree more. Cheers!
So your idea to fix the stories is to write ... even worse stories?
This is why I'm glad fans don't actually get a say in how the films are made ...
smh :laugh:
Shake away, but even the Strause Bros understood storytelling better than that ;D
Quote from: SiL on Nov 28, 2018, 12:10:57 AM
Shake away, but even the Strause Bros understood storytelling better than that ;D
Oh you should
definitely be a fox executive! ;D
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 27, 2018, 11:59:18 PM
I couldn't disagree more. Cheers!
How does the Queen hunting scene add to the story?
Tag
Quote from: SM on Nov 28, 2018, 12:15:49 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 27, 2018, 11:59:18 PM
I couldn't disagree more. Cheers!
How does the Queen hunting scene add to the story?
It shows.. how.. they got....the eggs...
Which adds what to the story? What does it add to show exactly where the eggs came from? How is it relevant later?
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 28, 2018, 12:19:18 AM
Tag Quote from: SM on Nov 28, 2018, 12:15:49 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Nov 27, 2018, 11:59:18 PM
I couldn't disagree more. Cheers!
How does the Queen hunting scene add to the story?
It shows.. how.. they got....the eggs...
The film shows us that though. From a Queen.
How does showing how they got the Queen have relevance to the story being told about a right-of-passage hunt in a shape shifting pyramid?
It's odd that you'd prefer this but poo-poo the idea of what actually happens when Alien meets Predator - a PredAlien.
EDIT - ninjaed by SiL.
You both related?
Was it not a fair question?
QuoteHow does showing how they got the Queen have relevance to the story being told about a right-of-passage hunt in a shape shifting pyramid?
He's talking about his hypothetical future-set story set in a colony now. But since the Predators in that are just shuttling the eggs around, not the Queen, it becomes even less relevant.
This is kind of the point. Just because you
can go spelunking into any given aspect doesn't mean you need to in order to fully realise it as part of the story. What Anderson did was perfectly adequate and anything more would be excessive for the story he wrote.
What he did with actually showing Aliens and Predators fighting, on the other hand, was
inadequate and needed more. But while showing Predators collecting the Queen would add to that aspect -- it wouldn't add to the actual story.
So, you both related at all?
No it's a "great minds" thing.
QuoteHe's talking about his hypothetical future-set story set in a colony now.
Ah, righto.
Gotcha.
I also missed the bit how showing where they got the eggs adds to the story.
Missing bits. You may want a doctor to look at that. ;)
So it doesn't. Right.
It's almost literally as vital as watching the Colonial Marines make a purchase order for ammunition. Certainly more exciting and visually interesting -- but no more necessary.
Quote from: SM on Nov 26, 2018, 11:25:43 PM
The first film needed a PredAlien - how do you get one if the Predator facehugging is removed?
The PredAlien being born on the Predator ship is dumb as the Predators with their x-ray vision, high tech and long history with the Xenos dont realize it (and Scar doesnt realize it either). I guess Chopper could have been facehugged instead but then you need to have him survive the temple explosion somehow and chestburst on the surface.
If they wanted to set up a sequel that bad, have Lex leave with the Predators at the end (but do some character tweaking with Lex being more of a loner frustrated with her life).
Simply copying the design and aesthetics from the better films might have tricked me into thinking I was watching a better movie.
https://twitter.com/KelG426/status/1023001057465643008?s=20
https://twitter.com/KelG426/status/1055613723094773761?s=19
Quote from: Kelgaard on Dec 03, 2018, 03:53:50 PM
Simply copying the design and aesthetics from the better films might have tricked me into thinking I was watching a better movie.
https://twitter.com/KelG426/status/1023001057465643008?s=20
https://twitter.com/KelG426/status/1055613723094773761?s=19
Completely agree. The AVP Predators were awful for the most part.
Thanks Paul William Scott Anderson....
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/xUOxf60LnwVrh70jO8/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c06eafa42652e7a49a806fc)
Quote from: Kelgaard on Dec 03, 2018, 03:53:50 PM
Simply copying the design and aesthetics from the better films might have tricked me into thinking I was watching a better movie.
https://twitter.com/KelG426/status/1023001057465643008?s=20
https://twitter.com/KelG426/status/1055613723094773761?s=19
The AVP Predators
do look like cosplayers, now that I think about it.
(Referencing his observation. Obviously, some cosplayers are just jaw-droppingly amazing.)
Quote from: Wysps on Dec 06, 2018, 01:21:32 AM
Quote from: Kelgaard on Dec 03, 2018, 03:53:50 PM
Simply copying the design and aesthetics from the better films might have tricked me into thinking I was watching a better movie.
https://twitter.com/KelG426/status/1023001057465643008?s=20
https://twitter.com/KelG426/status/1055613723094773761?s=19
The AVP Predators do look like cosplayers, now that I think about it.
(Referencing his observation. Obviously, some cosplayers are just jaw-droppingly amazing.)
Yes. Exactly!
I always wondered why they didn't just make a Aliens style film and chuck a Predator in to confuse the Marines to what is hunting them. Predators as shown in the vs Comics can adapt well to existing stories/universes. I think the AvP films tried to hard to connect the two species when we would have accepted an Alien film where the Predator is hunting Xenomorphs.
A Marine saying I think it's not after us or something along those lines would have been enough.
-TJ88
If they make an AVP that is essentially a blend of Aliens with Predator they pretty much have a great movie already done.
Films aren't that simple.