Quote"No, basically," Waterston answered, when the site asked if any conversations had taken place. "I don't live in Hollywood, and I'm always usually the last person to know even what's going on in my own career. So, [I'm] probably not the best person to ask. But I did get some sense of where they thought they might like to take it when we were shooting 'Covenant,' and it sounded really interesting. I would be absolutely game to do more if they wanted to have me."
The actress added, "That's all I know. I'm sure they've changed their minds anyway. And there's been probably loads of different ideas going around and everything. But just in case I spoil something by talking about it, I wouldn't dare."
https://twitter.com/BDisgusting/status/1083821330737389571
Just make the film already. Look at this point I don't care if it ends up with David in the chair and alien embryo eggs popping out his butthole. I just need some closure already. Did he or didn't he is getting aggravating.
I'm joking btw. I hope the movie is a mind f**k in more ways than one. 8)
Of course she's up to doing another one. I bet Boyd Holbrook is up to doing a sequel too.
But I personally think both possibilities are dead with those existing characters.
So basically the same thing she said a while ago. :-\
I hope the Disney-Fox deal will be complete soon, hopefully then we'll get an idea of what's happening.
Quote from: Evanus on Jan 11, 2019, 11:23:00 PM
So basically the same thing she said a while ago. :-\
I hope the Disney-Fox deal will be complete soon, hopefully then we'll get an idea of what's happening.
https://twitter.com/Variety_Gaming/status/1083086152553451521
Yeah I saw that. I just want to know what Disney is going to do with the rights, and I'm curious about the rumored TV show.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jan 11, 2019, 08:42:22 PM
Quote"No, basically," Waterston answered, when the site asked if any conversations had taken place. "I don't live in Hollywood, and I'm always usually the last person to know even what's going on in my own career. So, [I'm] probably not the best person to ask. But I did get some sense of where they thought they might like to take it when we were shooting 'Covenant,' and it sounded really interesting. I would be absolutely game to do more if they wanted to have me."
The actress added, "That's all I know. I'm sure they've changed their minds anyway. And there's been probably loads of different ideas going around and everything. But just in case I spoil something by talking about it, I wouldn't dare."
https://twitter.com/BDisgusting/status/1083821330737389571
Hey, that's great, but please...no.
Pithee Yes.
(https://i.imgur.com/TvMdUKj.jpg)
If they release a third film where Daniels is already dead, people will suddenly champion her character and be upset that she isnt in the film and was killed off.
Personally i liked Daniels, her character didn't feel mich like Ripley to me. Unfortunately her look was Ripley-esque though and I can see why that is bothersome.
Eh
I'm a Noomi Rapace fan so I prefer Noomi :-X
But her character was terrible, unfortunately...
Much like many things in Prometheus' script.
I like Noomi a lot too. I didnt like Shaw though, just didnt enjoy that character either.
I preferred Shaw, I thought her character was pretty good. Daniels was kinda meh, but if they kill her off screen too I'll be slightly annoyed.
Although I find Shaw more sexually attractive, I believe her personality would do my head in, I think Daniels would make better more lighthearted platonic company
I know no one will match Ripley, but I hope Daniels comes back as I actually liked her character. I also enjoyed Shaw, but we all know how that ended. Hopefully the next film won't just kill her off, and hopefully >.> David lands on a planet with Xenomorphs (Not protomorphs) already there and he dies. With Daniels having to save as many people as possible and GTFO the planet.
I know I know, Ridley wants David to be Xenomorph Dad, but hey, I can hope that OG Xenos aren't gonna be retconned into being made by him.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 12, 2019, 07:30:14 AM
Pithee Yes.
(https://i.imgur.com/TvMdUKj.jpg)
I mean no Daniels.
They made a mistake killing off #TeamShaw.
Good
Quote from: Evanus on Jan 12, 2019, 01:16:29 AM
Yeah I saw that. I just want to know what Disney is going to do with the rights, and I'm curious about the rumored TV show.
If you really want to learn more about Ridley Scott's vision post 'Alien: Covenant', I highly recommend you to watch the upcoming 'Raised by Wolves' TV series (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=60788.0), since I've been hearing that the proyect is looking more and more like a spiritual sequel to Covenant. Alien free media obiously, but a whole deal with AI, apparently.
Quote from: Evanus on Jan 11, 2019, 11:23:00 PM
So basically the same thing she said a while ago. :-\
I hope the Disney-Fox deal will be complete soon, hopefully then we'll get an idea of what's happening.
Focusing on Disney is the right way to look at this.
What does Disney want with action/adventure movies?
Blockbusters. See the MCU.
If a film under performs ("Covenant") or flops (Solo: A Star Wars Story), then Disney will cancel more films in the franchise.
Example; the Obi-Wan movie.
And that's with Star Wars, one of the biggest franchises.
I had hoped that the Fox-film / Disney merger would not have gone through.
Fox, as a medium sized studio by itself, would take a chance on smaller box office films including what's the core of this website; the Alien and Predator franchises.
But with Disney in charge? I'm not optimistic.
;)
Let us remember that ALIEN-COVENANT was released May 2017 (2 years ago this coming May- in less than 4 months time).
It took less than 4 months to film from principle photography April 4th 2016 to wrapping up July 19th 2016.
Disney can churn out a bog standard ALIEN film within a year with no announcement.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 12, 2019, 05:14:54 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 12, 2019, 07:30:14 AM
Pithee Yes.
(https://i.imgur.com/TvMdUKj.jpg)
I mean no Daniels.
They made a mistake killing off #TeamShaw.
^^^^THIS^^^^ ^^^^THIS^^^^ ^^^^THIS^^^^ ^^^^THIS^^^^ ^^^^THIS^^^^ ^^^^THIS^^^^ ^^^^THIS^^^^ ^^^^THIS^^^^ ^^^^THIS^^^^ ^^^^THIS^^^^ ^^^^THIS^^^^
I like Waterson as an actress, but in my opinion, Rapace has sooo much more gravitas and on-screen presence as a lead.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 12, 2019, 10:31:58 PMI like Waterson as an actress, but in my opinion, Rapace has sooo much more gravitas and on-screen presence as a lead.
Maybe Waterston got picked because she has less on-screen presence, to keep the focus on Fassbender.
Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Jan 12, 2019, 10:46:28 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 12, 2019, 10:31:58 PMI like Waterson as an actress, but in my opinion, Rapace has sooo much more gravitas and on-screen presence as a lead.
Maybe Waterston got picked because she has less on-screen presence, to keep the focus on Fassbender.
Hmm. Could be.
Well, whatever the reason behind Ridley's decision was...
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/VFHtnsl3xp53a/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c3a6e9d54642e7177f3c186)
Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Jan 12, 2019, 10:46:28 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 12, 2019, 10:31:58 PMI like Waterson as an actress, but in my opinion, Rapace has sooo much more gravitas and on-screen presence as a lead.
Maybe Waterston got picked because she has less on-screen presence, to keep the focus on Fassbender.
As much as I think her character and Redmayne's character are cute together in the new Harry Potter movies, she's not as memorable as, say, Hermione Granger.
Hermione would've bitch-slapped David before the movie even started.
The best way to go forward is to finish what they started - that is Ridley Scott's prequel trilogy then a sequel to Alien Resurrection. Both ended on cliffhangers that left the series in limbo.
Ridley Scott's like 81 years old, he better hurry up and make Alien: Titanic!
Quote from: Bob on Jan 12, 2019, 11:42:28 PM
The best way to go forward is to finish what they started - that is Ridley Scott's prequel trilogy then a sequel to Alien Resurrection. Both ended on cliffhangers that left the series in limbo.
Agreed, but no-one wants a sequel to Resurrection.
Although a story that takes place chronologically after Alien R
doesn't necessarily have to be a sequel to AR or acknowledge
it's events, the USM can be handwaved away or redefined so -
that the "USCM" is a branch of the USM in the 24th Century
"United Systems Colonial Marines" and then bring back the
recognisable aesthetics of Alien, Aliens, Alien³ & Isolation.
I'd rather the prequels just be cut out of canon. It's not as bad as the star wars prequels in watch ability, but with David creating the xenomorphs and the inconsistency from what Ridley says, I'd rather not have a sequel anyway.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 13, 2019, 09:01:52 AM
Quote from: Bob on Jan 12, 2019, 11:42:28 PM
The best way to go forward is to finish what they started - that is Ridley Scott's prequel trilogy then a sequel to Alien Resurrection. Both ended on cliffhangers that left the series in limbo.
Agreed, but no-one wants a sequel to Resurrection.
Although a story that takes place chronologically after Alien R
doesn't necessarily have to be a sequel to AR or acknowledge
it's events, the USM can be handwaved away or redefined so -
that the "USCM" is a branch of the USM in the 24th Century
"United Systems Colonial Marines" and then bring back the
recognisable aesthetics of Alien, Aliens, Alien³ & Isolation.
Or the USM could simply be retconned as a pseudo-UPP and a rival to both the United States and Weyland-Yutani of that era.
As for Waterston, I'd think Fassbender would be the one to ask about any sequels to Covenant since they're guaranteed to feature David.
Everyone in stasis cargo, Including Daniel's is going to be turned into a monster. Sorry.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 13, 2019, 08:15:05 AM
Ridley Scott's like 81 years old, he better hurry up and make Alien: Titanic!
Already saw that in a dream. It was great.
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 13, 2019, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 13, 2019, 08:15:05 AM
Ridley Scott's like 81 years old, he better hurry up and make Alien: Titanic!
Already saw that in a dream. It was great.
Was Bill Paxton in it?
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Jan 13, 2019, 05:45:09 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 13, 2019, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 13, 2019, 08:15:05 AM
Ridley Scott's like 81 years old, he better hurry up and make Alien: Titanic!
Already saw that in a dream. It was great.
Was Bill Paxton in it?
No, but it was still quite a rush.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 13, 2019, 09:01:52 AM
Quote from: Bob on Jan 12, 2019, 11:42:28 PM
The best way to go forward is to finish what they started - that is Ridley Scott's prequel trilogy then a sequel to Alien Resurrection. Both ended on cliffhangers that left the series in limbo.
Agreed, but no-one wants a sequel to Resurrection.
No-one reporting, hell yea I want a sequel to Resurrection. 8)
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 13, 2019, 05:50:54 PM
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Jan 13, 2019, 05:45:09 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 13, 2019, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 13, 2019, 08:15:05 AM
Ridley Scott's like 81 years old, he better hurry up and make Alien: Titanic!
Already saw that in a dream. It was great.
Was Bill Paxton in it?
No, but it was still quite a rush.
Oh and by Titanic, I mean Space Titanic, and by Space Titanic I mean the Derelict. I mean if we're going to retcon old to new it might as well be one hell of a Space Iceberg that sinks the Derelict.
The options they have going forward:
*Sequel to Resurrection
*Alien Awakening
*Remake (f**k that)
*Side-quel - maybe focusing on Amanda Ripley, semi-remake possibly
*Another AVP (doubtful)
*Retcon - strong possibility, it's trending atm
By retcon you do mean Alien 5 or Aliens 2 right? How about Alien 2424. I'd take that.
Noomi as an actor is leaps and bounds ahead of Katherine. She has a way stronger screen presence. Just a shame a lot of her dialogue and motivations in Prometheus were atrocious. But regardless of that, I still feel like there's proper closure needed for her character and it was probably not the best move to kill her in between films.
Katherine unfortunately just felt like she was filling a role and not much more. Perhaps they could give her something more substantial to work with in the next one, I dunno.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 13, 2019, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 13, 2019, 05:50:54 PM
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Jan 13, 2019, 05:45:09 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 13, 2019, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 13, 2019, 08:15:05 AM
Ridley Scott's like 81 years old, he better hurry up and make Alien: Titanic!
Already saw that in a dream. It was great.
Was Bill Paxton in it?
No, but it was still quite a rush.
Oh and by Titanic, I mean Space Titanic, and by Space Titanic I mean the Derelict. I mean if we're going to retcon old to new it might as well be one hell of a Space Iceberg that sinks the Derelict.
I would love something like 'The Crossing' but with more characters.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/19vgpf93MYIpaGykVc/giphy.gif)
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 13, 2019, 11:40:51 PM
Katherine unfortunately just felt like she was filling a role and not much more.
I'm thinking more and more that was the intention.
She wasn't supposed to be another Ripley or Shaw. Because she not the main character in the story.
The main characters are David and Walter.
Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Jan 14, 2019, 02:05:39 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 13, 2019, 11:40:51 PM
Katherine unfortunately just felt like she was filling a role and not much more.
I'm thinking more and more that was the intention.
She wasn't supposed to be another Ripley or Shaw. Because she not the main character in the story.
The main characters are David and Walter.
Yeah, I was thinking that too, and the movie is better viewed that way. But at the same time, she takes on a commanding role once the Alien is born and it feels like we're supposed to get behind her as she fights the Alien, but I just never could honestly. She's also the one established with some common sense at the start of the film, so I think there was some intention of her character to be as strong as Shaw or Ripley.
Agreed, with both of you.
What are the chances all the other colonists end up getting turned into the alien eggs we see in the deralict in the first movie.
Or David creating the Alien Queen that lays the eggs in the first movie?
Tooo many questions
Nevermind. I know donald duck and goofy are gonna show up at some point. :'(
Just like Alien Resurrection hinted at a sequel back in 1997, 20th Century Fox took a look at box office receipts and hit the cancellation button.
When the Alien Covenant bombed, they did the same thing.
The Alien / Prometheus prequel time-line is dead, effectively.
When we eventually do see the Alien franchise return to the big screen (and I'm convinced it will happen), it won't a continuation of what Ridley Scott had planned (although I would have loved to have seen what David did next). I think they'll instead revisit the Ripley character, or, most likely, her daughter, Amanda.
Reduce the budget, take the franchise back to it's horror-house roots. That's what I think is more likely.
Until there's 100% confirmation of its cancellation then it's safe to assume that everything is pending right now. Fox franchise consultant Andrew Gaska has stated that the plan is one more prequel at a significantly reduced budget, it's just Disney's move now.
Until we get third movie, Michael Fassbender will be old and fat ;D
Scott has hijacked this franchise long enough. I hope he will never make another Alien movie again. Haters shouldn't direct a movie.
Seems like everyone is a hater these days!
I myself would be quite entertained by an old and fat Michael playing David... as long as he wears his tight space suit the whole film. I wonder, can androids even gain weight?! :o
I sequel to Resurrection sounds nice to me for some reason.
I also love Amanda Ripley. Isolation made her character SO genuine.
Never thought a game could achieve that.
I doubt Fassbender would ever gain weight, his fit buns are made of steel. However, I do expect David to look different to some degree, more xeno-like.
I don't mind the idea of him with some Engineer-technology. I had expected (hoped) he'd come back in Covenant with some funky Engineer body.
I'd like to see him progressively lose himself to the pathogen, obviously he's enamoured with the shape language of his "perfect" creation thus I see him metamorphosing into something totally Other, but first let him have long metallic silver hair, a biomech bod, and nails like the big chap.
Interesting direction, but it may just lose what's left of the general audience at that point.
& Myself.
:laugh:
Nah go full art-house, valleys and valleys of juicy dongs, marines getting mutilated to the score of Wagner, minimal dialogue, end credits. ;D
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Jan 18, 2019, 04:16:56 PM
valleys and valleys of juicy dongs
Just calling them dongs, would've sufficed. ;D
"If you've got a hankerin' for something different, then come on down to Planet David, home of the Juicy Dong".
"Sink your canines into a Colonist Combo Meal, and wash it all down with a refreshingly large Black Goo Cola."
"Trying to watch your figure? Can't decide what you want? Try something from our new Neurosis Menu. You'll never believe it, or anything else again".
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 18, 2019, 08:29:26 PM
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Jan 18, 2019, 04:16:56 PM
valleys and valleys of juicy dongs
Just calling them dongs, would've sufficed. ;D
"If you've got a hankerin' for something different, then come on down to Planet David, home of the Juicy Dong".
"Sink your canines into a Colonist Combo Meal, and wash it all down with a refreshingly large Black Goo Cola."
"Trying to watch your figure? Can't decide what you want? Try something from our new Neurosis Menu. You'll never believe it, or anything else again".
Sponsored by Club Giger.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 18, 2019, 08:52:35 AM
I don't mind the idea of him with some Engineer-technology. I had expected (hoped) he'd come back in Covenant with some funky Engineer body.
That would have looked f'king ridiculous. Can you imagine a little pinheaded David noggin mounted on top of a humongous Engineer body? :laugh:
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 18, 2019, 09:50:36 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 18, 2019, 08:52:35 AM
I don't mind the idea of him with some Engineer-technology. I had expected (hoped) he'd come back in Covenant with some funky Engineer body.
That would have looked f'king ridiculous. Can you imagine a little pinheaded David noggin mounted on top of a humongous Engineer body? :laugh:
"A superior species, no doubt?"
Now planet neurotic dong is something I want to see! Bring plenty of black cleansing lotion. ;D
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 18, 2019, 09:50:36 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 18, 2019, 08:52:35 AM
I don't mind the idea of him with some Engineer-technology. I had expected (hoped) he'd come back in Covenant with some funky Engineer body.
That would have looked f'king ridiculous. Can you imagine a little pinheaded David noggin mounted on top of a humongous Engineer body? :laugh:
I'm sure he'd have figured out a way to make it more aesthetically pleasing to him.
Grafted to his toned buttocks of steel. ;D
Quote from: Choppa Dutchy on Jan 15, 2019, 11:58:21 AM
Just like Alien Resurrection hinted at a sequel back in 1997, 20th Century Fox took a look at box office receipts and hit the cancellation button.
When the Alien Covenant bombed, they did the same thing.
The Alien / Prometheus prequel time-line is dead, effectively.
When we eventually do see the Alien franchise return to the big screen (and I'm convinced it will happen), it won't a continuation of what Ridley Scott had planned (although I would have loved to have seen what David did next). I think they'll instead revisit the Ripley character, or, most likely, her daughter, Amanda.
Reduce the budget, take the franchise back to it's horror-house roots. That's what I think is more likely.
I understand the disappointment but AC did not bomb. It underperformed.
A box office "bomb" is when a movie can't make double the production budget at the box office. (Studios get about 1/2 of box office money partly through strange Hollywood accounting.)
So a "bomb" can't even pay for its production budget (and make up other costs through streaming, cable, disk sales).
- Examples of box office bombs; "Solo: A Star Wars Story", "Star Trek Beyond", "Green Lantern", "John Carter".
"Alien Covenant" had a Production Budget = $97 million.
Total box office = $240,891,763.
AC made 2.48 times its production budget.
That's about the same ratio as "Batman Begins" (box office 2.49 times the production budget); also not a bomb.
The difference is that in the past Fox and Warner Brothers would do sequels for underperforming films.
Disney which is now in charge of Fox films, wants blockbusters. Alien and Predator movies haven't been blockbusters for decades.
;)
Nor should they necessarily be blockbusters.
Quote from: bb-15 on Jan 20, 2019, 09:03:17 PM
Quote from: Choppa Dutchy on Jan 15, 2019, 11:58:21 AM
Just like Alien Resurrection hinted at a sequel back in 1997, 20th Century Fox took a look at box office receipts and hit the cancellation button.
When the Alien Covenant bombed, they did the same thing.
The Alien / Prometheus prequel time-line is dead, effectively.
When we eventually do see the Alien franchise return to the big screen (and I'm convinced it will happen), it won't a continuation of what Ridley Scott had planned (although I would have loved to have seen what David did next). I think they'll instead revisit the Ripley character, or, most likely, her daughter, Amanda.
Reduce the budget, take the franchise back to it's horror-house roots. That's what I think is more likely.
I understand the disappointment but AC did not bomb. It underperformed.
A box office "bomb" is when a movie can't make double the production budget at the box office. (Studios get about 1/2 of box office money partly through strange Hollywood accounting.)
So a "bomb" can't even pay for its production budget (and make up other costs through streaming, cable, disk sales).
- Examples of box office bombs; "Solo: A Star Wars Story", "Star Trek Beyond", "Green Lantern", "John Carter".
"Alien Covenant" had a Production Budget = $97 million.
Total box office = $240,891,763.
AC made 2.48 times its production budget.
That's about the same ratio as "Batman Begins" (box office 2.49 times the production budget); also not a bomb.
The difference is that in the past Fox and Warner Brothers would do sequels for underperforming films.
Disney which is now in charge of Fox films, wants blockbusters. Alien and Predator movies haven't been blockbusters for decades.
;)
It is a bomb because the marketing for AC was really expensive.
Yeah, marketing was huge. But Fox are silly though; putting huge amounts of money into and expecting big financial results for a nihilistic horror monster film no one is taking their kids or grandparents to see. It still did well considering the franchise's reputation and its restrictions as a genre, however.
Alien and Aliens became famous (don't know if they were actual blockbusters in their time) and made money because they were good films. Nowadays they try to do it the other way around.
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 23, 2019, 12:03:49 AM
Yeah, marketing was huge. But Fox are silly though; putting huge amounts of money into and expecting big financial results for a nihilistic horror monster film no one is taking their kids or grandparents to see. It still did well considering the franchise's reputation and its restrictions as a genre, however.
Prometheus did it and did well financially.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 23, 2019, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 23, 2019, 12:03:49 AM
Yeah, marketing was huge. But Fox are silly though; putting huge amounts of money into and expecting big financial results for a nihilistic horror monster film no one is taking their kids or grandparents to see. It still did well considering the franchise's reputation and its restrictions as a genre, however.
Prometheus did it and did well financially.
Granted. But not under the 'Alien' name.
I'd wager a lot of the Prometheus money was hype because it was the first film movie set strictly in the Alien universe (non AVP) since Resurrection and also saw the return of the original director. Hell, I almost went to see it, and I hadn't been to the theater since Aladdin at that point. Even my father was asking if I was going to see the "new alien movie".
^Yep.
And none of this changes the fact they put huge amounts of money into a nihilistic monster movie and got that money back. Clearly the genre isn't the issue.
Agreed.
It's the f**king writing.
It had a hell of a trailer too. Two of them.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 23, 2019, 02:48:52 AM
And none of this changes the fact they put huge amounts of money into a nihilistic monster movie and got that money back. Clearly the genre isn't the issue.
I disagree. Genre definitely is a factor. Covenant was marketed like a slasher film, to be like a classic Alien movie, with emphasis on gore and the return of the classic creature. Prometheus, even though it's related to the franchise, had much more broader appeal because it wasn't sold like a slasher.
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 23, 2019, 10:57:07 AM
I disagree. Genre definitely is a factor. Covenant was marketed like a slasher film, to be like a classic Alien movie, with emphasis on gore and the return of the classic creature. Prometheus, even though it's related to the franchise, had much more broader appeal because it wasn't sold like a slasher.
Then your argument is
marketing is important, and I'm not about to question that because it is.
We could also argue whether people simply felt
Covenant was a worse movie, but that's harder to quantify.
Covenant is not the most digestible or pithy sub-title for the general movie going public. Add in weird scenes of erotic fluting/misanthropy and it was never going to light up the box-office. All things considered it did ok.
Genre isn't the main factor, however it affects movie's box office. The most important thing is quality which is mainly based (at least in Scott's case) upon the script. Give Ridley great script and he'll nail it: Gladiator, Kingdom of Heaven, American Gangster or The Marian.
I don't think the quality of a film is the deciding factor when it comes to how good it does at the box office.
Quote from: Evanus on Jan 23, 2019, 10:40:21 PM
I don't think the quality of a film is the deciding factor when it comes to how good it does at the box office.
As seen with Blade Runner 2049. Then you'll have a movie like Avatar. A technical showpiece that'll make all the money in the world, but is narratively bankrupt. Or franchise movies like Fallen Kingdom and Star Wars.
Quote from: Evanus on Jan 23, 2019, 10:40:21 PM
I don't think the quality of a film is the deciding factor when it comes to how good it does at the box office.
Quality is not just how the movie looks. Quality for me is the story itself with its characters, dialogues, tension, pacing and so on. Quality in overall.
Prometheus and
Covenant don't have that quality.
[erotic fluting]
Quote from: Ingwar on Jan 24, 2019, 11:19:01 AM
Quote from: Evanus on Jan 23, 2019, 10:40:21 PM
I don't think the quality of a film is the deciding factor when it comes to how good it does at the box office.
Quality is not just how the movie looks. Quality for me is the story itself with its characters, dialogues, tension, pacing and so on. Quality in overall. Prometheus and Covenant don't have that quality.
Sure..? But that doesn't mean that's why Covenant didn't do well at the box office.
Then why Covenant didn't do well a the box office?
Quote from: Ingwar on Jan 24, 2019, 09:33:27 PM
Then why Covenant didn't do well a the box office?
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 23, 2019, 12:03:49 AM
Yeah, marketing was huge. But Fox are silly though; putting huge amounts of money into and expecting big financial results for a nihilistic horror monster film no one is taking their kids or grandparents to see. It still did well considering the franchise's reputation and its restrictions as a genre, however.
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 23, 2019, 10:57:07 AM
I disagree. Genre definitely is a factor. Covenant was marketed like a slasher film, to be like a classic Alien movie, with emphasis on gore and the return of the classic creature. Prometheus, even though it's related to the franchise, had much more broader appeal because it wasn't sold like a slasher.
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Jan 23, 2019, 02:28:50 PM
Covenant is not the most digestible or pithy sub-title for the general movie going public. Add in weird scenes of erotic fluting/misanthropy and it was never going to light up the box-office. All things considered it did ok.
Lacklustre trailers, title.
With the awareness that Prometheus was crap, a sense of "Oh you won't fool me this time, Ridley Scott!" was in the air,
which most likely contributed to it's decrease in commercial success despite IMO, being a superior film in the narrative.
And a concept that we'd seen before.
(From the trailers perspective.)
It's more easy to see why audiences didn't have a interest when you compare it to what Prometheus did have.
Prometheus' the return of Ridley Scott to Sci-Fi, a cast of hot new stars and an return to sense of legitimacy in that Prometheus was described as it's own thing in the Alien Universe, the complete opposite of the abortion of AVP/AVPR people had suffered five years prior- that had little to do with the series history creatively, aesthetically, narratively or thematically beyond the creature itself.
I'd say that's quite accurate, yeah. Except Prometheus wasn't crap. ::)
Quote from: Evanus on Jan 24, 2019, 10:37:47 PM
I'd say that's quite accurate, yeah. Except Prometheus wasn't crap. ::)
Yeah, it is.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 24, 2019, 11:14:16 PM
Quote from: Evanus on Jan 24, 2019, 10:37:47 PM
I'd say that's quite accurate, yeah. Except Prometheus wasn't crap. ::)
Yeah, it is.
(https://i.imgur.com/PwtgkPj.png)
:P
(https://i.imgur.com/qm4nwyn.png)
Yeah...
Trust me, I more than anyone would've loved for Prometheus to be good
and for a long time I was infatuated with the idea that it was
and people simply didn't understand it, but it isn't.
It's still more interesting than the vast majority of films that are "good"
(passable) but it itself, is not good.
(https://i.gifer.com/30ey.gif)
Oof
Well, it's obviously a flawed film like Covenant but the visuals, special effects, music and acting (Fassbender mostly) is why I still love it. I guess it's sort of a matter of opinion anyway.
Fair enough.
"The script" is conspicuously absent from the list.
It is my opinion that Covenant's script is superior to Prometheus'
"Oh you won't fool me this time, Ridley Scott!" is in reference to
Prometheus' script, and therefore a lack of anticipation towards 2017's Alien.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 25, 2019, 01:30:09 AM
"The script" is conspicuously absent from the list.
Well, yeah. I was listing things I like about the film. Not to say I hate the script, it's just that it's definitely a weak point of the film.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 25, 2019, 02:44:48 AM
It is my opinion that Covenant's script is superior to Prometheus'
"Oh you won't fool me this time, Ridley Scott!" is in reference to
Prometheus' script, and therefore a lack of anticipation towards 2017's Alien.
Not your list.
Quote from: Evanus on Jan 25, 2019, 02:47:52 AM
Not to say I hate the script, it's just that it's definitely a weak point of the film.
A bad script is a fairly strong argument to say it's a bad film, wouldn't you agree? ;D
Quote from: SiL on Jan 25, 2019, 04:27:29 AM
A bad script is a fairly strong argument to say it's a bad film, wouldn't you agree?
I did not say it's a bad script. I do think it's pretty mediocre overall, but it certainly doesn't ruin the film for me because of the reasons I stated earlier.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 24, 2019, 10:33:28 PM
Lacklustre trailers, title.
With the awareness that Prometheus was crap, a sense of "Oh you won't fool me this time, Ridley Scott!" was in the air,
which most likely contributed to it's decrease in commercial success despite IMO, being a superior film in the narrative.
While Prometheus had just a wonderful, thrilling final trailer, I would agree Covenant trailers were very lackluster. I honestly would equate that result to the film itself feeling lackluster. Watching Covenant gives me the feeling that Ridley Scott was just going through the motions, and his heart was no longer in it, if that makes any sense.
I'm not at all calling Prometheus a perfect film, but for me, nothing is superior in Covenant over Prometheus. From casting, to acting, to the narrative, to pacing and direction, Covenant just fails in almost every comparison.
The cast isn't superior to Prometheus' but they're better acted and directed.
The editing in Prometheus is completely f**ked, Covenant's is not.
Covenant knows what it is, Prometheus does not.
Nah, Covenant- aside from the Xenomorph in the ship at the end being somewhat lacklustre but not always- is a superior film.
(when it's standing up and moving around slowly like a man it's pretty fantastic and so is the visuals of the atmospheric decompression.)
Aside from some of the production design of the human crafts, spacesuits and weaponry which I thought were much more interesting looking in Prometheus, Covenant is much, much better film it's probably just that because Prometheus doesn't know what it's about- in your head you can define it therefore in whatever way you want, whereas Covenant actually has a strong narrative theme. As many smarter than me have said, Covenant's a Romanticism; Gothic Horror in space and if you're not willing to approach it like you would that genre of literature, you're not going to be interested.
Yup. Scott's heart lies with David more than anything else, this is clear, yet he still clearly lavishes over scenes like the medbay sequence which is honestly one of the best in the franchise. Just look at that wonderful long-take during the fluting scene, not to mention how much attention he paid personally to the artwork made by Hatton and Hallet. The crew also are much more natural and far less goofy, albeit still foolish, they are at least consistently foolish, unlike the likes of Milburn and Fifield (their deaths are great, however, that helmet melting, mmmm) and their interactions and dialogue are far more natural; no howlers like "I'm here to make money", "I love rocks", "nothing to contribute in the dead body arena", "maybe it's Martian piss", or Vickers' "father", etc. Covenant is a weird hybrid of often subverted Alien tropes and a Victorian Gothic horror ala Frankenstein, Dracula, etc, the entire second act is just...weird, but provocative. The Bosch-esque necropolis visually is far more rich and striking than the lifeless terrain on LV-223, and the revelation that the titular creature and its life cycle reflects a deliberate perversion of human sexuality by a sterile machine going mad while demystifying, is bold and consistent thematically with Giger's aesthetic. There's also the through-line of Wagner combined with Shelley's poem that makes it much more thematically succinct and coherent than Prometheus overall.
David's motivations are clearly delineated from the opening scene, also; the creator/creation dynamic is more clearly presented with Weyland and David's dialogue exchange and interaction there and it also sets up Milton's influence throughout - the white room being heaven, Weyland being the Creator and David being the most brilliant angel that threatens his throne, etc.
Covenant asks the question - what if the Devil or Frankenstein's monster could create? I for one NEED to see David's planet of the juicy dongs. ;D
The forever salivating dong monster will suffice for me. :laugh:
I think it would be cooler if the Alien itself, with the invention
of the hive structure terraformed an entire celestial body.
Rather than having David be involved, in that directly.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 25, 2019, 04:08:26 PM
Covenant's a Romanticism; Gothic Horror in space and if you're not willing to approach it like you would that genre of literature, you're not going to be interested.
If that was the intention, it strikes me as a tad pretentious when viewing the result. Still, I'll try to put myself in that frame of mind the next time I watch it and see if any of my feelings differ towards it.
How would you rank Covenant among the Ripley trilogy?
Fourth, easily.
Whereas I think Prometheus and Resurrection fluctuate for last place.
I hate what Resurrection did to the lore, and the Resurrection of Ripley.
(Hopefully someday we'll get a film set after Resurrection,
with everything we knew and loved from the OT back- intact and then
this complaint would be mostly non-existant, aside from the cloning itself.)
But as it's self contained thing, it's infinitely more coherent as a film.
Whereas Prometheus' lore creations I really, really appreciate.
The Pathogen, Peter Weyland, the timeline, the gear, the ship.
Aside from the Engineers = Space Jockey concept.
If the Engineers were established as their own thing,
that problem would be solved for me personally but
the film itself, Resurrection's always the victor.
Alien Trilogy, TCF, Isolation, "Covenant", Resurrection, Prometheus.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 23, 2019, 11:20:26 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Jan 23, 2019, 10:57:07 AM
I disagree. Genre definitely is a factor. Covenant was marketed like a slasher film, to be like a classic Alien movie, with emphasis on gore and the return of the classic creature. Prometheus, even though it's related to the franchise, had much more broader appeal because it wasn't sold like a slasher.
Then your argument is marketing is important, and I'm not about to question that because it is.
Dafuq?
Your post was talking about how the films were sold, not their actual genres. Prometheus was still an adult R rated sci fi horror that hit ask the same bogey men in space beats, but they didn't push that in the marketing.