William Gibson's Alien 3

Started by Ultramorph, Apr 26, 2018, 08:06:32 PM

Author
William Gibson's Alien 3 (Read 150,735 times)

The Old One

The Old One

#735
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 07, 2019, 07:10:30 AM
I had Stockholm syndrome the first couple of years after its release and even defended it against the people who really hated it.


I had the same reaction to Prometheus. Thought there was depth where there was none.
(It might be the worst Alien film from a narrative perspective,
but it'll compete with Resurrection- depending upon my mood.)
That Damon Lindelof! (& Jon Spaihts TBF)

I stand by this;

Quote from: The Old One on Jul 12, 2018, 05:45:45 PM
Noomi Rapace truly was wasted, she's a phenomenal actress and it's unfortunate that Prometheus never gave us a script to match.

If that had been the case I can guarantee the nostalgia craving for a Neill Blomkamp Alien film
would have never existed in the first place.

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#736
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 07, 2019, 05:41:18 AMI didn't care for the bursting ending. It just felt cheesy and forced. She shouldn't have even been alive to clutch it at that point. It just felt so forced and like such blatant fan service/movie moment that it took me right out of the experience. Her just falling into the inferno flowed much better, in my opinion.

Other than the fact the re-edit ruins the flow of Goldenthal's exquisite score, I far prefer the Chestburster-less ending. As you say, it seems kind of silly for her to just serenely clutch it to herself when Kane and everyone else has been flopping about in uncontrollable agony.

Russ840

Russ840

#737
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 06, 2019, 08:28:45 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 07:27:12 AM
No, I believe the AC is genuinely superior for a number of reasons-

I want a comprehensive list.


Seeing Clemens walk alone, immediately establishes him as a loner to the audience-
even amongst "his own people" -the imagery of Ripley covered in oil and insects also;
immediately defines both the idea that nothing is sacred here and she's covered in insects.
It's beautiful cinematography. Beautiful location establishment. Heroic.

Seeing Andrews type reflected in the monitor both establishes him as an authority figure
and the overseer before he utters a word.
The ADR works better here with the overhead shot of the EEV,
because now it makes sense that what
Frank says sounds like it's coming from a distance;
rather than the camera being right up in his face.

(I know the EEV is upside down in this shot, but I'm going to say it doesn't matter
as it's honestly hard to tell each side from the other as they lack many defining features,
especially when covered in debris.)

As for the rest of the opening, I just like it better because it's kinder to Newt-
it means that we're on the same page regarding Newt with Ripley because
Clemens could be telling the truth about her drowning in her cryotube unawares.
(Additionally, personally: I prefer to think he is.)
(The shots of Bishop and Hicks are rad too.)

The message confirmation- (I don't think it's in the theatrical release)
is a minor detail that establishes that these aren't just the facility's
private records but that a link with a company or government exists.

No "Who would do this to a dog?"
Almost tongue-in cheek line.
Otherwise I must conclude the dog version's superior-
if only for the shot of the dog barking at the Facehugger.
(And the fact the opening shows a regular Facehugger
on REDACTED's face, it's simpler to conclude that there
are two stowaway Facehuggers. With the Egg shot omitted.)


"Was she your Daughter?"

"No."

I think is also particularly poignant and worth keeping,
because it adds the additional layer of the idea-
that not only is Ripley grieving but she isn't entitled to her grief;
which makes sense in the following scene when Kevin asks
"What is she doing?" Because Ripley's behaviour is strange
if she was Newt's mother, but now additionally so to Clemens
as he is aware she's not in-fact her mother.
Which adds another layer to their interactions and 
Clemens' reluctance in the autopsy.

In this version where Golic has a pivotal role to play;
The scene between Rains, Boggs, Golic and Dillon is important.
Not for Rains and Boggs' sake, although this scene certainly
gives you better insight into their personalities through their
excellent naturalistic performances- but for Dillon and Golic.
It establishes for the latter two a relationship, despite
the fact Dillon is clearly the leader- Golic makes people
uneasy to the point they both openly question his sanity.
Dillon defends Golic, even patting him on the shoulder
as he leaves. This is setup for Golic's "arc" in the story,
importantly it also establishes Dillon's care for Golic so
the "He's never lied to me! He's crazy, he's a fool but he's not a liar!"
doesn't come out of nowhere.

"As I thought, Mr. Aaron. As I thought."  "You called it, sir."
Not immensely important, but good for character.

"Why we're waiting for God to return- and raise his servants to redemption."
I think this and it's musical cue is particularly important, because
it's prefaced with "What are you waiting for?" Ripley's used to rape and death-
by this point, but Dillon shows that's not all he is.
(I'd sound pretentious if I rambled on any longer about this conversation,
suffice to say; I think it highlights the themes of the film in an important way.)

"I've been out here a long time."
"So have I."
Reciprocation people, important for any relationship.  ;D

"I think you owe me an answer. Being in my bed's got nothing to do with it."
Further establishes Clemens as a good, decent person- and intelligent.
Which is good because it means his demise has extra sting.
For both Ripley and the audience.
This is someone she could've opened up to and the moment she dies-
or is about to "You first." The Alien takes that from her, like it takes everything.

"Light a candle for Murphy."
Murphy being good to Golic is a nice little additional detail that adds to his estrangement.

"You screw with me one more time I'll cut you in half."
This is an interesting addition, not for the above quoted line as that's in both versions-
But for the idea that Andrews doesn't want Aaron to see the dissention in the ranks.
Or for the prisoners to know that the relationship between Clemens and Andrews is tepid at best.
Further reinforcing "I don't want ripples in the water." Not for anyone's safety but his own.
Not including Aaron in on the conversation is an indication of why Aaron has the warped view
of Andrews as a good man that he does, when to me this calls into question Andrew's trustworthiness.

"She told me she was part of a combat unit that came to grief, beyond that I assume it's all classified. I haven't pressed her for more."
It's cool that the events of Aliens are both acknowledged and an indication of some real trust Ripley has with Clemens.
Or trust issues depending upon what way you interpret that. (Maybe I just like the line on this one lol.)

"CIGARETTES!"
(Setup)

Eric dropping the plates, sets up that he's prone to break down under pressure-
just like he does when he sets the piston off prematurely later on.
I also like, just personally that Golic is found doing something mundane.
It echoes a serial killer's derangement of treating their acts as though it were any other day.

The tension is much, much superior with the extended version of the Dragon sneaking up
on Clemens and Ripley, with Golic squirming in fear.

"Magnificent." (This is a good, short homage to "Perfect Organism" IMO-
Showing that awe has completely overthrown fear in Golic's mind.)

The shot of the inside of the vent, covered in blood-
whilist Jude mops up is not only a fantastic shot but
is a direct through line to much of the cinematography
and language of the film. The prisoners, the humans-
generally are always filmed from below.
Yet Ripley and the Alien fall from the sky,
with the first three times (Boggs and Rains) Golic,
the Clemens, then Andrews- the Alien descends
from above, from above the dirty existence of the prisoners.

The film's visual language is strengthened by this shot.
And it leads perfectly into what's literally being said;
"The apocalypse is upon us! Let us be ready!
Let your mercy be just!"

"Sounds good to me."
Morse is blaming Ripley, and I think this is good insight
on her state of mind because it shows that maybe she
does blame herself, for the deaths of everyone she couldn't save.
In this way "Morse... Why don't you shut the f**k up?"
Has more poignancy because IMO- he's not just speaking to Morse-
but also Ripley, mirroring later on when Ripley wants to die
but Dillon refuses to let her, because unless both Aliens are dead;
her sacrifice would be totally in vain and bullshit-
then it's more suicide than sacrifice.

Arthur and Troy checking through batteries.
"Nothing much works here!"
"No video surveillance, no f**king ice-cream!"
(I imagine this is one of the repetitions SM refers to but, I must say;
show don't tell is a rule of film and this scene shows.)

The extra footage of the quinitricetyline plan makes sense,
because in this version it actually has a payoff.

More Dillon caring for Ripley in this version, that's good-
not only does it reinforce the relationship between them
and endear us to Dillon but it's a nice little hint at the "reveal."

Visually there's a fantastic addition in that Ripley
helps two of the inmates that attempted to rape her,
Junior whom we can distinguish from his teardrop tattoo
most importantly, sees Ripley doing something for her fellow
man regardless of what happened earlier.
This with guilt, obviously inspires him to take the action he does
and give his life for those of his fellow man.


"Oh Jesus, this makes ten."
Is removed and rightfully so,
I don't believe Dillon would say this
even if the operation was a failure.

The speech honouring them is much more fitting.
For Dillon's character and the bittersweet note
that this sequence ends on.

It's also worth noting that the conversation here
where Aaron doesn't believe in or respect the beliefs
of the prisoners, and Aaron leaving the prisoner
he was with to burn- is part of Aaron's arc
that leads him from "A Company man" to hitting
Michael Bishop over the back of the head with a wrench.

As well as the W-Y transmission's introduction
as foremost the new main problem.
"Permission denied."
Importantly confirms W-Y's intentions to the audience
and the characters.


"No more cigarettes for you."
(CIGARETTES payoff.)
The influence of the Alien,
has completely overthrown Golic's reason at this point,
the film even infers this visually with a reference to a horror classic;
Bela Lugosi's Dracula as Golic's eyes are highlighted before he's dispatched.
f**king fantastic.

"Dillon we've got a teeny weeny problem..."

Then importantly:
Morse's failure to contain Golic is addressed-
as it logically would be.
"Well, I'm out of ideas!"
With Ripley's "morning sickness" cropping up
one final time, third time's the charm.

Ripley disappears, disillusioned-
She finds out about the Queen.

Our heroes are now at their lowest point.
(Which wouldn't have happened had sacrifices not been made
and the creature not been captured in the first place.)
Not only has Ripley lost everyone close to her,
the Alien is loose again and there's two ticking time bombs-
W-Y and the one inside her chest.

Morse's epiphany;
When he remembers the Alien is afraid of fire.
Let's make it to the furnace.
I believe this is important because it's as The Fifth Element would say;
A little light of life, it's a moment of hope the film desperately needs.
The descent between the prisoners reminds me of the
"Parker. Shut up!" scene in Alien, in regards to how they
could possibly kill the Alien. You could take it or leave it.
But I wouldn't leave it.

"I was violated. And now I get to be mother of the year."
In addition to what I said earlier on this scene,
it raises the stakes because the implication is that
if this thing gets off Fiorina 161- not Earth,
not humanity, but all life, is at stake-
"wipe out the whole universe" & I believe it,
because this is Sigourney Weaver's best performance.

"This is as good a place as any to take our first steps to Heaven".
The extended speech and score is superior, no explanation required.

(The shot of Aaron looking in the mirror should've stayed.)
For obvious character arc reasons.

Before the chase & bait begins,
there's several tiny scenes showing how the different prisoners
react to their situation, I think that's fairly appropriate-
to get you aqquainted with where everyone is in the tunnels.
Rather than one scene of David criticising the plan.
Although- why not both?

"I think I've found Vincent!"
Speaks for itself doesn't it? lol
Mysterious Mark Vincent.

"Improvising!"
Not necessary but love this scene.
Especially Ripley's reaction.

"And then it's over."
"I'm not a droid!"
"No pictures!"
Included for obvious reasons.

I believe Ripley would pause for contemplation,
so I prefer her death in the AC-
although I think the "You're crazy." Line is... eh.

No chestburster
but no bad slo-mo.
More graceful fall in a cross position.
In tune with the film's thematics.

There you go.

Class.

This echos my feelings about the special edition. Much prefer it. 


The Kurgan

The Kurgan

#738
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 06, 2019, 08:28:45 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 06, 2019, 07:27:12 AM
No, I believe the AC is genuinely superior for a number of reasons-

I want a comprehensive list.


Seeing Clemens walk alone, immediately establishes him as a loner to the audience-
even amongst "his own people" -the imagery of Ripley covered in oil and insects also;
immediately defines both the idea that nothing is sacred here and she's covered in insects.
It's beautiful cinematography. Beautiful location establishment. Heroic.

Seeing Andrews type reflected in the monitor both establishes him as an authority figure
and the overseer before he utters a word.
The ADR works better here with the overhead shot of the EEV,
because now it makes sense that what
Frank says sounds like it's coming from a distance;
rather than the camera being right up in his face.

(I know the EEV is upside down in this shot, but I'm going to say it doesn't matter
as it's honestly hard to tell each side from the other as they lack many defining features,
especially when covered in debris.)

As for the rest of the opening, I just like it better because it's kinder to Newt-
it means that we're on the same page regarding Newt with Ripley because
Clemens could be telling the truth about her drowning in her cryotube unawares.
(Additionally, personally: I prefer to think he is.)
(The shots of Bishop and Hicks are rad too.)

The message confirmation- (I don't think it's in the theatrical release)
is a minor detail that establishes that these aren't just the facility's
private records but that a link with a company or government exists.

No "Who would do this to a dog?"
Almost tongue-in cheek line.
Otherwise I must conclude the dog version's superior-
if only for the shot of the dog barking at the Facehugger.
(And the fact the opening shows a regular Facehugger
on REDACTED's face, it's simpler to conclude that there
are two stowaway Facehuggers. With the Egg shot omitted.)


"Was she your Daughter?"

"No."

I think is also particularly poignant and worth keeping,
because it adds the additional layer of the idea-
that not only is Ripley grieving but she isn't entitled to her grief;
which makes sense in the following scene when Kevin asks
"What is she doing?" Because Ripley's behaviour is strange
if she was Newt's mother, but now additionally so to Clemens
as he is aware she's not in-fact her mother.
Which adds another layer to their interactions and 
Clemens' reluctance in the autopsy.

In this version where Golic has a pivotal role to play;
The scene between Rains, Boggs, Golic and Dillon is important.
Not for Rains and Boggs' sake, although this scene certainly
gives you better insight into their personalities through their
excellent naturalistic performances- but for Dillon and Golic.
It establishes for the latter two a relationship, despite
the fact Dillon is clearly the leader- Golic makes people
uneasy to the point they both openly question his sanity.
Dillon defends Golic, even patting him on the shoulder
as he leaves. This is setup for Golic's "arc" in the story,
importantly it also establishes Dillon's care for Golic so
the "He's never lied to me! He's crazy, he's a fool but he's not a liar!"
doesn't come out of nowhere.

"As I thought, Mr. Aaron. As I thought."  "You called it, sir."
Not immensely important, but good for character.

"Why we're waiting for God to return- and raise his servants to redemption."
I think this and it's musical cue is particularly important, because
it's prefaced with "What are you waiting for?" Ripley's used to rape and death-
by this point, but Dillon shows that's not all he is.
(I'd sound pretentious if I rambled on any longer about this conversation,
suffice to say; I think it highlights the themes of the film in an important way.)

"I've been out here a long time."
"So have I."
Reciprocation people, important for any relationship.  ;D

"I think you owe me an answer. Being in my bed's got nothing to do with it."
Further establishes Clemens as a good, decent person- and intelligent.
Which is good because it means his demise has extra sting.
For both Ripley and the audience.
This is someone she could've opened up to and the moment she dies-
or is about to "You first." The Alien takes that from her, like it takes everything.

"Light a candle for Murphy."
Murphy being good to Golic is a nice little additional detail that adds to his estrangement.

"You screw with me one more time I'll cut you in half."
This is an interesting addition, not for the above quoted line as that's in both versions-
But for the idea that Andrews doesn't want Aaron to see the dissention in the ranks.
Or for the prisoners to know that the relationship between Clemens and Andrews is tepid at best.
Further reinforcing "I don't want ripples in the water." Not for anyone's safety but his own.
Not including Aaron in on the conversation is an indication of why Aaron has the warped view
of Andrews as a good man that he does, when to me this calls into question Andrew's trustworthiness.

"She told me she was part of a combat unit that came to grief, beyond that I assume it's all classified. I haven't pressed her for more."
It's cool that the events of Aliens are both acknowledged and an indication of some real trust Ripley has with Clemens.
Or trust issues depending upon what way you interpret that. (Maybe I just like the line on this one lol.)

"CIGARETTES!"
(Setup)

Eric dropping the plates, sets up that he's prone to break down under pressure-
just like he does when he sets the piston off prematurely later on.
I also like, just personally that Golic is found doing something mundane.
It echoes a serial killer's derangement of treating their acts as though it were any other day.

The tension is much, much superior with the extended version of the Dragon sneaking up
on Clemens and Ripley, with Golic squirming in fear.

"Magnificent." (This is a good, short homage to "Perfect Organism" IMO-
Showing that awe has completely overthrown fear in Golic's mind.)

The shot of the inside of the vent, covered in blood-
whilist Jude mops up is not only a fantastic shot but
is a direct through line to much of the cinematography
and language of the film. The prisoners, the humans-
generally are always filmed from below.
Yet Ripley and the Alien fall from the sky,
with the first three times (Boggs and Rains) Golic,
the Clemens, then Andrews- the Alien descends
from above, from above the dirty existence of the prisoners.

The film's visual language is strengthened by this shot.
And it leads perfectly into what's literally being said;
"The apocalypse is upon us! Let us be ready!
Let your mercy be just!"

"Sounds good to me."
Morse is blaming Ripley, and I think this is good insight
on her state of mind because it shows that maybe she
does blame herself, for the deaths of everyone she couldn't save.
In this way "Morse... Why don't you shut the f**k up?"
Has more poignancy because IMO- he's not just speaking to Morse-
but also Ripley, mirroring later on when Ripley wants to die
but Dillon refuses to let her, because unless both Aliens are dead;
her sacrifice would be totally in vain and bullshit-
then it's more suicide than sacrifice.

Arthur and Troy checking through batteries.
"Nothing much works here!"
"No video surveillance, no f**king ice-cream!"
(I imagine this is one of the repetitions SM refers to but, I must say;
show don't tell is a rule of film and this scene shows.)

The extra footage of the quinitricetyline plan makes sense,
because in this version it actually has a payoff.

More Dillon caring for Ripley in this version, that's good-
not only does it reinforce the relationship between them
and endear us to Dillon but it's a nice little hint at the "reveal."

Visually there's a fantastic addition in that Ripley
helps two of the inmates that attempted to rape her,
Junior whom we can distinguish from his teardrop tattoo
most importantly, sees Ripley doing something for her fellow
man regardless of what happened earlier.
This with guilt, obviously inspires him to take the action he does
and give his life for those of his fellow man.


"Oh Jesus, this makes ten."
Is removed and rightfully so,
I don't believe Dillon would say this
even if the operation was a failure.

The speech honouring them is much more fitting.
For Dillon's character and the bittersweet note
that this sequence ends on.

It's also worth noting that the conversation here
where Aaron doesn't believe in or respect the beliefs
of the prisoners, and Aaron leaving the prisoner
he was with to burn- is part of Aaron's arc
that leads him from "A Company man" to hitting
Michael Bishop over the back of the head with a wrench.

As well as the W-Y transmission's introduction
as foremost the new main problem.
"Permission denied."
Importantly confirms W-Y's intentions to the audience
and the characters.


"No more cigarettes for you."
(CIGARETTES payoff.)
The influence of the Alien,
has completely overthrown Golic's reason at this point,
the film even infers this visually with a reference to a horror classic;
Bela Lugosi's Dracula as Golic's eyes are highlighted before he's dispatched.
f**king fantastic.

"Dillon we've got a teeny weeny problem..."

Then importantly:
Morse's failure to contain Golic is addressed-
as it logically would be.
"Well, I'm out of ideas!"
With Ripley's "morning sickness" cropping up
one final time, third time's the charm.

Ripley disappears, disillusioned-
She finds out about the Queen.

Our heroes are now at their lowest point.
(Which wouldn't have happened had sacrifices not been made
and the creature not been captured in the first place.)
Not only has Ripley lost everyone close to her,
the Alien is loose again and there's two ticking time bombs-
W-Y and the one inside her chest.

Morse's epiphany;
When he remembers the Alien is afraid of fire.
Let's make it to the furnace.
I believe this is important because it's as The Fifth Element would say;
A little light of life, it's a moment of hope the film desperately needs.
The descent between the prisoners reminds me of the
"Parker. Shut up!" scene in Alien, in regards to how they
could possibly kill the Alien. You could take it or leave it.
But I wouldn't leave it.

"I was violated. And now I get to be mother of the year."
In addition to what I said earlier on this scene,
it raises the stakes because the implication is that
if this thing gets off Fiorina 161- not Earth,
not humanity, but all life, is at stake-
"wipe out the whole universe" & I believe it,
because this is Sigourney Weaver's best performance.

"This is as good a place as any to take our first steps to Heaven".
The extended speech and score is superior, no explanation required.

(The shot of Aaron looking in the mirror should've stayed.)
For obvious character arc reasons.

Before the chase & bait begins,
there's several tiny scenes showing how the different prisoners
react to their situation, I think that's fairly appropriate-
to get you aqquainted with where everyone is in the tunnels.
Rather than one scene of David criticising the plan.
Although- why not both?

"I think I've found Vincent!"
Speaks for itself doesn't it? lol
Mysterious Mark Vincent.

"Improvising!"
Not necessary but love this scene.
Especially Ripley's reaction.

"And then it's over."
"I'm not a droid!"
"No pictures!"
Included for obvious reasons.

I believe Ripley would pause for contemplation,
so I prefer her death in the AC-
although I think the "You're crazy." Line is... eh.

No chestburster
but no bad slo-mo.
More graceful fall in a cross position.
In tune with the film's thematics.

There you go.

Great contribution. Thanks for the effort of putting all that together.

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#739
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 07, 2019, 12:32:34 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 07, 2019, 05:41:18 AMI didn't care for the bursting ending. It just felt cheesy and forced. She shouldn't have even been alive to clutch it at that point. It just felt so forced and like such blatant fan service/movie moment that it took me right out of the experience. Her just falling into the inferno flowed much better, in my opinion.

Other than the fact the re-edit ruins the flow of Goldenthal's exquisite score, I far prefer the Chestburster-less ending. As you say, it seems kind of silly for her to just serenely clutch it to herself when Kane and everyone else has been flopping about in uncontrollable agony.

It's better because it's still her making that decision and she still has a chance at survival. The TE ending takes that away, makes less of the sacrifice. But I do love seeing that Queen chestburster...

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#740
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2019, 01:02:43 PMIt's better because it's still her making that decision and she still has a chance at survival. The TE ending takes that away, makes less of the sacrifice. But I do love seeing that Queen chestburster...

Yeah, I love the Queenburster design. Feel kinda sad that it gets removed, but as has been said, the scene simply works better without it.

The Old One

The Old One

#741
It's the same as the Queen Facehuggers, gorgeous.
But narratively (with the footage we have)
better off without it.

Valaquen

Valaquen

#742
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 07, 2019, 01:02:43 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 07, 2019, 12:32:34 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Jan 07, 2019, 05:41:18 AMI didn't care for the bursting ending. It just felt cheesy and forced. She shouldn't have even been alive to clutch it at that point. It just felt so forced and like such blatant fan service/movie moment that it took me right out of the experience. Her just falling into the inferno flowed much better, in my opinion.

Other than the fact the re-edit ruins the flow of Goldenthal's exquisite score, I far prefer the Chestburster-less ending. As you say, it seems kind of silly for her to just serenely clutch it to herself when Kane and everyone else has been flopping about in uncontrollable agony.

It's better because it's still her making that decision and she still has a chance at survival. The TE ending takes that away, makes less of the sacrifice. But I do love seeing that Queen chestburster...

I think it was Fincher who called it "janitorial". And it really takes away from the idea that Ripley ever had a choice. If she'd run full pelt towards the Patna she still wouldn't have made it.

Quote from: The Old One on Jan 07, 2019, 04:24:06 PM
It's the same as the Queen Facehuggers, gorgeous.
But narratively (with the footage we have)
better off without it.

The Queen-hugger just ups and disappears, doesn't it? Nobody ever says, "Look what we've got lying around" after we first see it. The Company might've done wonders with it.

Still Collating...

I prefer the AC as well. The only thing I don't like is the alien being captured, but the positives outweigh the negatives in that cut IMO.

I didn't hate A3 the first time I saw it, I just thought it was a bit boring. But that changed as time passed and my taste evolved. As an ending to the trilogy, I love the thematic payoff. The polar opposites of standard trilogies where the entries have a optimistic-pessimistic-even more optimistic tone, whereas the Alien trilogy goes pessimistic-optimistic-deeply pessimistic. Love the subversion. That doesn't mean A3 has no flaws though... Of course, I only mean those perspectives in the broadest, vague sense of the word, implying the feel of the general movie atmosphere.

Damn it, I'm due for a rewatch of the original trilogy.  ;D   

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#744
Quote from: Valaquen on Jan 07, 2019, 04:42:58 PM
The Queen-hugger just ups and disappears, doesn't it? Nobody ever says, "Look what we've got lying around" after we first see it. The Company might've done wonders with it.

And it would've been so easy.  AR could have shown us the facehugger and Bishop's remains locked in a vault, Cyberdyne-style, to explain how they were able to clone and learn all about the alien.

N-Shifter

N-Shifter

#745
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 07, 2019, 06:35:14 AM
Just imagine the disappointment it was for those us who were old enough to see it when it was new and expected a worthy follow-up to Aliens.

My experience right there, I think I was 12...maybe 13, I'd just experienced how great Terminator 2 had been, a sequel to The Terminator which I loved so I was very excited to see what a sequel to my favourite series could be (Alien & Aliens) when Alien 3 was announced; I've never to this day been more disappointed in a movie.

Alien 3 has merits but it's so far away from what I wanted or expected that the memory of that disappointment still lingers - a very formative age at the time so I doubt I'll get over it. 

Rankles75

Rankles75

#746
Quote from: N-Shifter on Jan 07, 2019, 06:31:44 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 07, 2019, 06:35:14 AM
Just imagine the disappointment it was for those us who were old enough to see it when it was new and expected a worthy follow-up to Aliens.

My experience right there, I think I was 12...maybe 13, I'd just experienced how great Terminator 2 had been, a sequel to The Terminator which I loved so I was very excited to see what a sequel to my favourite series could be (Alien & Aliens) when Alien 3 was announced; I've never to this day been more disappointed in a movie.


I was a bit older, but feel the exact same way.

SM

SM

#747
QuoteI think it was Fincher who called it "janitorial". And it really takes away from the idea that Ripley ever had a choice. If she'd run full pelt towards the Patna she still wouldn't have made it.

That was the Giler and Hill ending where she bursts on the gantry, grabs the Alien, breaks its neck, then jumps into the fire.

Not sure Fincher ever commented on the compromise ending.

Not sure why anyone would think the Theatrical version was less of a sacrifice.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#748
'Cos she ostensibly still had a chance of survival if she'd taken Bishop II's offer?

SM

SM

#749
Yeah.  She didn't know exactly when it was going to burst, and she made her choice based on that.  It's not like she was already convulsing or anything.

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