What if.....

[SiL]

I think that the Predator is much more complex and much more of a character then the Alien will ever be.

The Predator is a man with a funny face. That's it.

The Alien, in the first film, was at least something alien. Second film onwards and they get turned into animals.

[Pvt. Hicks]

The Predator is a man with a funny face. That's it.

The Alien, in the first film, was at least something alien. Second film onwards and they get turned into animals.

Name me another 'monster' design that was awarded an Academy Award.

That's how grand the Alien is. Not to say that the Predator isn't great, it's runner-up, but it's got nothin' on the Alien.

[SM]

Name me another 'monster' design that was awarded an Academy Award.

King Kong (1976 and 2005), ET, Jurassic Park, Terminator 2.

Movies don't win for 'creature design' alone.  Nicky Allder and Brian Johnson had nothing to do with the creation of the creature, but still got Oscars.

And I'm not seeing how the Predator is much more complex either.  It's 'the most dangerous game' with an alien instead of a rich dude.  Not terribly deep.  In fact, probably less deep than the source material.  Aliens have a habit of hunting and killing humans in movies.  Humans don't usually hunt other humans for sport.

The Predator, due to it's human-like qualities, may have more scope to become actual characters rather than simply monsters, but I don't think it's really been on display thus far that much.

[locusta]

The Predator is a man with a funny face. That's it....

But a big one with a big gun

Anyway we are happy, if you recall the "original" Predator design.....(puke!)

[The PredBen]

The Predator film itself was dumb fun , but its fun to watch over and over again. The Predator creature is cool , I mean the mandibles were , for some reason , loved by most people and Arnies classic " You are one  ugly mother f**ker!" was awesome. Alien in Alien was very ... well.... it was alien. Nothing like it was remotely earthish. After aliens though , i'd give the cooler being award to Predator.

[SM]

Why is Predator a dumb film?

[The PredBen]

Not a dumb film at all , I think it is dumb fun. To me thats a movie that I can re watch for its action. I love Predator and find it better then Alien which I can only watch through once in a year!

[SM]

What about it though, is "dumb".

[Pvt. Hicks]

King Kong (1976 and 2005), ET, Jurassic Park, Terminator 2.

Terminator 2 wasn't intended to be scary. Jurassic Park has scary moments. E.T. isn't Horror.

When you think of Horror, those films don't come to mind. Alien sooner would come to mind. You know what I mean though. Alien is the kind of material that can easily be cheesy(slasher/monster) and very tricky to make classy and A-level, but it is. Jason, Freddy, etc. These are more in line of what I was talking about. Alien is masterful.

[SM]

So when someone answers your question, you change tack and make it all about "horror".

As I said, Alien did not win an Oscar just for the creature design.  It was for visual effects, which includes all the miniatures and actual execution of effects.

Terminator 2 wasn't intended to be scary.

Nevertheless, the T2 was the 'monster' of the piece, and that film won an Oscar for visual effects.. Same with the T-Rex and raptors.

[Pvt. Hicks]

That's what I've always meant, Scott. Horror. Movie monsters who are intended by the filmmakers to be scary, and to kill. Scary. Horror. Horror. Scary. That's what I meant. A rarity, but Alien achieved it.

[SiL]

That's what I've always meant

Name me another 'monster' design that was awarded an Academy Award.

Good way of showing it.

And as SM said, no, Alien didn't. The original creature design is easily one of the most celebrated, yes, but the design itself was not what won the award - It's never happened, and it never will, because the monster will always fall under the effects category.

[Pvt. Hicks]

It is a good way of showing it.

[Aeus]

The Predator is a man with a funny face. That's it.

That's bullshit. Sure it isn't as complex as the Alien, but it comes close. Technologically complex, morally and ethically complex to list some. I mean Jesus Chirst, simplifying an intergalactic sadistic hunter with incredibly advanced technology into "a man with a funny face" is nothing more than you fanwanking off to the Alien.

[SM]

Hardly.  Since SiL is a pretty big Predator fan.  Of the film at least, if not the monster.

I don't know where the moral and ethical complexity comes into it.  Just because it spares some people and doesn't kill everything in site isn't terribly complex.  Just gives it parallels to human hunters, thereby making it less alen.