The reports are true and shorty does play "a Predator" , how about this...
The smaller predator is infact a younger predator and is on Earth to learn his trade taught by an older predator. I'm not talking Obi-wan here, Just something rough around the edges but obvious to the viewer.
This story would also fit with the title... Predators.
2 predators might be the perfect number? Bad Idea? better idea or Tosh?
I can see the pros and cons of doing that.
Pros - well it might be interesting and we get to learn more about the predators.
Cons - it humanises them too much plus we already saw noob predators in AVP.
I think many predator fans just want to see their old school predators back who are just like mysterious killers rather than all the stuff that's in the comics. Others want to more like that.
Although AVP was garbage, I thought Anderson handled that side of the predators quite well, without as you say "Humanising" them. You knew what was going on, although at times he did overkill it a bit.
It is tough, prehaps the story should be taken away from the predators and put in the hands of the humans. That seems to be the winning formula.
I still think 2 is a good number, 2 that survive to the end that is.
Quote
I think many predator fans just want to see their old school predators back who are just like mysterious killers
Exactly, that's how they work best.
Change that and you got yourself a nice, big pile of shit. (see AvP)
Johnny, we all know we can count you out of anything even remotely different from predator 1 ;)
It IS possible to think Predator as it's own movie with it's own possibilities, without referring to the 2 other pile's of shit we got.... (which were not predator movies).
The Alien was juat a "mysterious killer" until aliens , I'm sure back in the day they said the same thing until Cameron changed it and made a sci fi action master piece.
QuoteThe Alien was juat a "mysterious killer" until aliens , I'm sure back in the day they said the same thing until Cameron changed it and made a sci fi action master piece.
Yes, and that's why many alien fans consider the first movie as the only true alien movie.
Aliens is a cool movie, no doubt, but in the end of the day the creatures were a huge step down from the original.
You cant even compare the bug aliens with Kane's son. The design, the behaviour and the whole mystery that the creature is surrounded by is unbeatable and i wish they would have kept that in Aliens.
QuoteJohnny, we all know we can count you out of anything even remotely different from predator 1
Predator 2 is different then Predator 1, i love the shit out of this movie, so you're talking
Bullshit.
I want a different movie.. with the same f**king creature and all the features that makes it
great. when you do changes, do minor changes that actually supports the creature, Predator 2 did that, there is only so much you can change before you actually make everything worse.
You just want changes because that's what
Aliens did, and at the same time you completely miss that everything Cameron did with the Aliens wasn't nearly as effective as the original, but hey, it was different right? So its all good. ::)
Well for a start the predator is'nt even nearly as complex as the "alien" and Cameron still pulled it off - you can say what you want about "Alien" and hardcore fans, It Does'nt change the fact it's one of the top Sci fi movies of all time.
I don't want changes "because thats what aliens did", I'll even agree that The predator formula work's fine, and it doesn't need changed a whole lot.
But whats the problem with 2 predators hunting, or a small team? whats the big massive change there that has you all in knots? These movies have been slowley dying a death , so why not go a little batman? why not introduce some new habits? Something we've never seen before?
Predator 2 did'nt get a good reception and neither will your version of predator 3.
Aliens were still mysterious killers in 'Aliens'. Only in the third film did they start to get too much lighting and visual exposure.
At least the motivation in certain scenes is still a mystery for them.
Quote from: highlandpred on May 18, 2009, 10:38:06 PM
Well for a start the predator is'nt even nearly as complex as the "alien" and Cameron still pulled it off - you can say what you want about "Alien" and hardcore fans, It Does'nt change the fact it's one of the top Sci fi movies of all time.
I don't want changes "because thats what aliens did", I'll even agree that The predator formula work's fine, and it doesn't need changed a whole lot.
But whats the problem with 2 predators hunting, or a small team? whats the big massive change there that has you all in knots? These movies have been slowley dying a death , so why not go a little batman? why not introduce some new habits? Something we've never seen before?
Predator 2 did'nt get a good reception and neither will your version of predator 3.
Now that I think about it, I wonder how many spec-ops will the predators be hunting, because if you have a large pack of pred's with the same amount of spec-ops forces from the first movie then there wouldn't really be a movie. So, I like the idea of maybe 2 or 3 pred's teaming up, keep it small and cohesive, plus it seems the most logical way to go. But then again that would feel like a version of AvP but without the Aliens, and we all saw how the pred's ripped through the camp of humans above and below ground.
The predator has pretty much ripped through anything it's came up against-including Arnies top class team, so i dont think that'll be the issue. The issue is why is there more than one predator?, and why are they on earth?
I remeber someone touted an idea on here of predators being dropped in the middle of a human war, but 40 million probably wouldnt cut it.
They should just put 2 predator in a the middle of the vietnam war and one pred is killing the Vietnamees side and the other the Americans, nice setting; Jungle, vietnam was scary at night time and lots of human action aswell. And there you have it: A Good Predators Movie ;)
I think this Predators , will be a rather low film indeed. I think in the end , we will simply see a crappy film based on a team of 4 predators. I tried to think of that storyline , 2 predators , one elder , one young , but it was bad. My latest AVP script has one lone , impregnated and weak predator. A lone monster is tougher then 30 ones.
Quote from: highlandpred on May 18, 2009, 09:09:10 AM2 predators might be the perfect number? Bad Idea? better idea or Tosh?
Yes, two predators would probably be the perfect number. To many would screw things up and they would probably die quite easily. One would work just fine, but I'm actually interested in what could be done with this teacher and student concept.
However, many fans seems to be allergic to anything even remotely new. But get this, adding new things won't necessarily make it a bad movie. Sure, if handled poorly it could probably become a pile of shit, but guess what? The original concept could as easily become that pile of shit all by itself, if handled by the wrong person.
You don't have to go too deep with these two predators. You could just have them communicating with a few simple hand gestures and perhaps let us see the older one watching over his student as he takes on the humans. There is no need to tell us their life stories, so adding a extra predator won't take away the mystery.
That's what I think at least.
Quote from: highlandpred on May 18, 2009, 10:38:06 PM
Well for a start the predator is'nt even nearly as complex as the "alien"
You really think so?
I think that the Predator is
much more complex and
much more of a character then the Alien will ever be.
With the Alien you got the lifecycle, everything else is killing killing and killing, or to make a long story short: The Alien is as basic as a movie monster can be.
Quoteyou can say what you want about "Alien" and hardcore fans, It Does'nt change the fact it's one of the top Sci fi movies of all time.
But no reasons why
Aliens was as good is the creature itself, because Cameron downgraded it. "The dome cracks through action scenes, take it off!" "A giant guy who can create an performance and a real character? f**k that, we are going to take pudgy stunt guys for everything!"
The only really good thing he contributed to the Alien was the queen, and even some people didn't even like that idea.. besides that he showed us how fascinating it is to see an Alien exploding in all directions. Wheeew :P
QuoteI'll even agree that The predator formula work's fine, and it doesn't need changed a whole lot.
Basically agreeing with me that the whole thing needs to be changed for
the sake of it.
Quote
But whats the problem with 2 predators hunting, or a small team?
There is not really a "problem", just that its unnecessary and takes away some of the things that makes it uncanny, its much creepier when the thing is alone out there. Would
Alien be a better movie if there were multiple Aliens, or Alien3? Or would
Predator be a better movie if there were multiples? No, they wouldn't. Infact, one reason why
Alien is my favourite movie from the series is because there is
one alien.
QuoteThese movies have been slowley dying a death , so why not go a little batman?
Because this is not Batman, this is
Predator. The Batman franchise was just perfect for a reboot, because the old movies really had that comic book feeling about them. Batman was a product of its time, you can reboot it now (what they did) and you can reboot it again in 20 years. They rebooted it because it wasn't modern enough anymore. The question behind this was: How would a modern day Batman look like, how would a more realistic approach look like, how about making the batman character more life like, more human.
Now take Predator: Whats the difference if the Predator is hunting now or in 1987? Nothing.
Make the character more deep? How? Its a goddamn Alien, you don't want to see it making eggs for breakfast, you want it to scare you and you want it kill people.
Special effects? They look
fantastic today.
From all the franchises out there, Predator is the least to make a reboot of or to take a different approach or change some things without destroying the things that made it great in the first place.
You're constantly asking: Why is it so bad to have multiples? Does it make the movie any less good?
Have you ever asked yourself the question if its going to be a better movie if you have more predator, more weapons and more special effects?
I don't give a shit if the movies were big and successful, Predator would still be Predator today even if there were no sequels at all.
Quotewhy not introduce some new habits? Something we've never seen before?
Because that what Predator 2 did already
19 years ago. There is only so much you can do with a franchise or a character. Everything new the AvP franchise did was utterly shit. You had multiple Predator in AvP, was it really that great to see multiple of them running around roaring at each others what to do? It was
ridiculous.
Quote
Predator 2 did'nt get a good reception and neither will your version of predator 3.
Again, i don't give a shit if the movie doesn't get a good reception. I care for what i like, and i don't need 2000 people telling me that I'm watching a good movie. I rather have a good movie that i like then a shit movie that is financially successfull.
Why didn't Alien3 and Alien Rez get a good reception? Because they were too different, they took a different approach then the first two movies and at the same time took away the things that made the originals so great. In Alien 3 it was the tone and the characters, and in Alien rez it was basically everything, turning it into a comedy.
Different does not mean better by any means and if something does work the way it works then don't change it, if you cant change it and you're feeling like you're just repeating yourself then simply don't do a new movie at all.
If anything, going back to simplicity and the basics would make the movie more refreshing because the latest films in the franchise have strayed so far away from the original material, and tried to add new way too many ideas.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on May 20, 2009, 01:49:28 AM
I think that the Predator is much more complex and much more of a character then the Alien will ever be.
The Predator is a man with a funny face. That's it.
The Alien, in the first film, was at least something alien. Second film onwards and they get turned into animals.
Quote from: SiL on May 20, 2009, 04:55:05 AM
The Predator is a man with a funny face. That's it.
The Alien, in the first film, was at least something alien. Second film onwards and they get turned into animals.
Name me another 'monster' design that was awarded an Academy Award.
That's how grand the Alien is. Not to say that the Predator isn't great, it's runner-up, but it's got nothin' on the
Alien.
QuoteName me another 'monster' design that was awarded an Academy Award.
King Kong (1976 and 2005), ET, Jurassic Park, Terminator 2.
Movies don't win for 'creature design' alone. Nicky Allder and Brian Johnson had nothing to do with the creation of the creature, but still got Oscars.
And I'm not seeing how the Predator is much more complex either. It's 'the most dangerous game' with an alien instead of a rich dude. Not terribly deep. In fact, probably less deep than the source material. Aliens have a habit of hunting and killing humans in movies. Humans don't usually hunt other humans for sport.
The Predator, due to it's human-like qualities, may have more scope to become actual characters rather than simply monsters, but I don't think it's really been on display thus far that much.
Quote from: SiL on May 20, 2009, 04:55:05 AM
The Predator is a man with a funny face. That's it....
:D :D :D :D
But a big one with a big gun ;)
Anyway we are happy, if you recall the "original" Predator design.....(puke!)
The Predator film itself was dumb fun , but its fun to watch over and over again. The Predator creature is cool , I mean the mandibles were , for some reason , loved by most people and Arnies classic " You are one ugly mother f**ker!" was awesome. Alien in Alien was very ... well.... it was alien. Nothing like it was remotely earthish. After aliens though , i'd give the cooler being award to Predator.
Why is Predator a dumb film?
Not a dumb film at all , I think it is dumb fun. To me thats a movie that I can re watch for its action. I love Predator and find it better then Alien which I can only watch through once in a year!
What about it though, is "dumb".
Quote from: SM on May 20, 2009, 05:09:36 AM
King Kong (1976 and 2005), ET, Jurassic Park, Terminator 2.
Terminator 2 wasn't intended to be scary. Jurassic Park has scary
moments. E.T. isn't Horror.
When you think of Horror, those films don't come to mind. Alien sooner would come to mind. You know what I mean though. Alien is the kind of material that can easily be cheesy(slasher/monster) and very tricky to make classy and A-level, but it is. Jason, Freddy, etc. These are more in line of what I was talking about. Alien is masterful.
So when someone answers your question, you change tack and make it all about "horror".
As I said, Alien did not win an Oscar just for the creature design. It was for visual effects, which includes all the miniatures and actual execution of effects.
QuoteTerminator 2 wasn't intended to be scary.
Nevertheless, the T2 was the 'monster' of the piece, and that film won an Oscar for visual effects.. Same with the T-Rex and raptors.
That's what I've always meant, Scott. Horror. Movie monsters who are intended by the filmmakers to be scary, and to kill. Scary. Horror. Horror. Scary. That's what I meant. A rarity, but Alien achieved it.
Quote from: Pvt. Hicks on May 21, 2009, 02:11:56 AM
That's what I've always meant
QuoteName me another 'monster' design that was awarded an Academy Award.
Good way of showing it.
And as SM said, no,
Alien didn't. The original creature design is easily one of the most celebrated, yes, but the design itself was not what won the award - It's never happened, and it never will, because the monster will always fall under the effects category.
It is a good way of showing it.
Quote from: SiL on May 20, 2009, 04:55:05 AM
The Predator is a man with a funny face. That's it.
That's bullshit. Sure it isn't as complex as the Alien, but it comes close. Technologically complex, morally and ethically complex to list some. I mean Jesus Chirst, simplifying an intergalactic sadistic hunter with incredibly advanced technology into "a man with a funny face" is nothing more than you fanwanking off to the Alien.
Hardly. Since SiL is a pretty big Predator fan. Of the film at least, if not the monster.
I don't know where the moral and ethical complexity comes into it. Just because it spares some people and doesn't kill everything in site isn't terribly complex. Just gives it parallels to human hunters, thereby making it less alen.
Quote from: SM on May 21, 2009, 10:30:21 AM
Hardly. Since SiL is a pretty big Predator fan. Of the film at least, if not the monster.
I don't know where the moral and ethical complexity comes into it. Just because it spares some people and doesn't kill everything in site isn't terribly complex. Just gives it parallels to human hunters, thereby making it less alen.
So, what does the alien do?
It kills for its survival, thats exactly what
every other animal does on our planet, making it even less complex then humans killing other animals for sport and for pleasure.
You cant get more basic then that.
Quote from: Aeus on May 21, 2009, 09:39:17 AM
That's bullshit. Sure it isn't as complex as the Alien, but it comes close. Technologically complex, morally and ethically complex to list some. I mean Jesus Chirst, simplifying an intergalactic sadistic hunter with incredibly advanced technology into "a man with a funny face" is nothing more than you fanwanking off to the Alien.
And atleast the predator doesn't have his head the shape of a man's dick.
^Small penis complex...
Quote from: Predboy on May 21, 2009, 03:26:43 PM
And atleast the predator doesn't have his head the shape of a man's dick...
...with parts of an old Rolce Royce darned up its ass.
That's one freaky cucaracha..!
Quote from: SM on May 21, 2009, 10:30:21 AM
Hardly. Since SiL is a pretty big Predator fan. Of the film at least, if not the monster.
And I'm an Alien fan as well as a Predator fan, both film and creature.
Quote
I don't know where the moral and ethical complexity comes into it. Just because it spares some people and doesn't kill everything in site isn't terribly complex. Just gives it parallels to human hunters, thereby making it less alen.
It sadistically kills highly advanced creatures for nothing more than it's own pleasure. Morally and ethically it's only comparable to a psychopath. It's hardly something that's easy to understand or relate to.
I didn't think the Predator movie was dumb , I was stating that its action made the movie. Anyway I do not know , Predator is a classic but unlike alien , which has a whole classic series , due to the amount and badness of sequels... that film alone is a classic.
Quote from: Aeus on May 21, 2009, 09:39:17 AM
That's bullshit.
Hardly.
QuoteIt sadistically kills highly advanced creatures for nothing more than it's own pleasure. Morally and ethically it's only comparable to a psychopath. It's hardly something that's easy to understand or relate to.
We're not highly advanced to them, though. That's the point. They're ManPlus. They're us, but bigger, stronger, tougher, faster, smarter, older. We'd only liken them to psychopaths because they're doing this stuff to
us, and we're pretty full of ourselves. But to them it's no worse than hunting deer, except the deer's got a gun.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on May 21, 2009, 03:09:56 PM
It kills for its survival, thats exactly what every other animal does on our planet, making it even less complex then humans killing other animals for sport and for pleasure.
This is why I added the caveat of talking about the Alien in the
first movie, because its actions were alien. It wasn't just acting for survival, or for reproduction. It was just acting.
Quote from: Predboy on May 21, 2009, 03:26:43 PM
And atleast the predator doesn't have his head the shape of a man's dick.
Aaand thanks for the display of the typical maturity level of a Pred fanboy. Credit to your peers, mate.
QuoteWe'd only liken them to psychopaths because they're doing this stuff to us, and we're pretty full of ourselves. But to them it's no worse than hunting deer, except the deer's got a gun.
It doesn't matter if to them its normal to slaughter human kind for their pleasure.
If a crazy man slaughters his family or makes an amok run and he thinks its such a normal thing that doesn't makes him a psychopath anymore?
Hardly.
QuoteThis is why I added the caveat of talking about the Alien in the first movie, because its actions were alien. It wasn't just acting for survival, or for reproduction. It was just acting.
Of course it was killing for its survival. Not in a single scene the Alien was attacking the crew members, it was always the crew that came to the alien with flamethrowers to either kill it or to get it out of the airlock, what it did in reaction was shown in the movie.
Your dog can be the cutest and most harmless thing in the world, if you do something that it doesn't know or it has the feeling that you might hurt it it will bite you. Same with Lions, elephants or any other species on this planet. Its a basic thing and it cant get more simple then that.
QuoteAaand thanks for the display of the typical maturity level of a Pred fanboy. Credit to your peers, mate.
I'm not seeing how its immature to point out that the Alien's head looks like a penis, because that's what it ultimately looks like and was intended that way. if anything, that should make you happy as a fan that people start to notice the sexual overtones that Giger and Scott intended.
But its much easier to respond with a standart and lame "ohh pred fanboys" answer then actually giving an argument right.
Agreed Johnny , but the whole point of Predators was to make us , the hunted , well it was. Also if a man goes and kills an elephant during hunting season he's seen possibly as normal. But if he shot a man for no reason , he's evil. The fact is , is that the Predators are psychopaths , but still then so are we. We are argue that we are sapient and that even if a species is smarter then us , if it kills a human , its murder. but what if they are evolved so much further then us , they see us as animals and animals as bugs. they might regard we are sapient but they might be sapient to the 20Th power and not view anything under sapient to the 10Th power as near intelligent. Still slaughtering anything that is intelligent is still evil and I agree that unlike the alien , the Predator is truly killing for fun for the challenge , thus the more evil creature.
QuoteSo, what does the alien do?
It kills for its survival, thats exactly what every other animal does on our planet, making it even less complex then humans killing other animals for sport and for pleasure.
You cant get more basic then that.
Hook, line and sinker.
Thank you for your continued irrelevance.
QuoteI didn't think the Predator movie was dumb , I was stating that its action made the movie
You said it was "dumb fun". I don't really remember anything about Predator dumb, and I'm not even really a fan. It's a very well made action film, as far as I'm concerned.
QuoteI'm not seeing how its immature to point out that the Alien's head looks like a penis
It was a lame attempt to say "alien fanz r fagz cos they liek thing dat look liek mens dickz."
(As opposed to womens dicks of course)
Hardly surprising that you wouldn't see something like that as immature. Defending a f**ktarded post like "And atleast the predator doesn't have his head the shape of a man's dick" with "But its much easier to respond with a standart and lame "ohh pred fanboys" answer then actually giving an argument right" is right up your alley. Especially when there is no argument to give to such inanity. Go you.
QuoteHook, line and sinker.
Thank you for your continued irrelevance.
Thank you for showing us again that you cant post anything usefull into this forum.. aside from the fact that you cant discontinue to show us that you're an angry little man.
QuoteIt was a lame attempt to say "alien fanz r fagz cos they liek thing dat look liek mens dickz."
Or it was just an attempt to say that the alien's head design is inspired by a penis. Which is is.
QuoteHardly surprising that you wouldn't see something like that as immature.
Hardly surprising that you feel offended by a comment that is not meant to say anything different then "the alien's head looks like a penis".
"Alienz iz ma lifeee!!"
*yawn*
Quote from: SM on May 22, 2009, 12:14:02 AM
*yawn*
You're tired obviously, its OK, go take a nap.
This board wins a bit of cerebral matter in the time you're gone.
How typical, that you attack SiL for not appropriately responding to Predboy's drivel with a proper argument, but you respond to my comments about the Predator with the tiresome and entirely irrelevant "What about the Alien, blah, blah, whine".
There is safety in the predictability of your inherent hipocrisy though, I suppose.
QuoteHow typical, that you attack SiL for not appropriately responding to Predboy's drivel with a proper argument
I didn't attack Sil for anything, and that's your problem, first you feel attacked by the "penis head" comment and now you feel like that i have attacked Sil.
I only gave an argument, if anything he attacked a whole lot of people with his "predator fan" comment "Ahh shitz immature pred fanz lulz".
What has immaturity to do with saying that the Alien's head looks like a friggin penis? Its not the problem that me or other people attack others its just that you feel offended and attacked every time someone says something about the Alien. Yet you give comments like this "Thank you for your continued irrelevance".
Come down from your high horse, if you don't agree with my comments or responses then say so in a normal way or at least
try to say why you don't agree.
This board is still here to exchange opinions, not to let out the frustration that you get out of your everyday life.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on May 21, 2009, 11:22:56 PM
Of course it was killing for its survival. Not in a single scene the Alien was attacking the crew members, it was always the crew that came to the alien with flamethrowers to either kill it or to get it out of the airlock, what it did in reaction was shown in the movie.
The Alien was at no time threatened by Brett or Lambert. Brett was used for reproduction; Lambert was butchered for no reason; and Parker was clearly never a match for it.
QuoteYour dog can be the cutest and most harmless thing in the world, if you do something that it doesn't know or it has the feeling that you might hurt it it will bite you.
And yet my dog won't walk into a room of strangers and attack them for no reason.
QuoteBut its much easier to respond with a standart and lame "ohh pred fanboys" answer then actually giving an argument right.
There was no argument to be made. All he said was "At least the Predator's head doesn't look like a dick". The only way to argue with that would lower to his level and say "Yeah well a Pred's mouth looks like a vagina and dicks f**k pussies lolololol".
To say the Alien's head looks like a dick in the original movie is obvious. But it's the way and context in which he said it - He used it as a lame attack against the Alien. "So the Predator's not complex - At least his head doesn't look like a dick! Nyeurgh!" was what he was saying.
Quote from: SiL on May 21, 2009, 10:51:02 PM
Hardly.
The fact that someone is going to say the predator, who has one of the best and most realistic design ever made, is just, 'someone with a funny face', is completly you, just whacking off to the alien.
QuoteAaand thanks for the display of the typical maturity level of a Pred fanboy. Credit to your peers, mate.
Maturity huh. So because I said that the alien's head is shaped like a dick, (which it does) makes me immature? What, cuz its true? Ah, sorry if I affended you a bit. :)
Quote from: Predboy on May 22, 2009, 01:39:20 AM
The fact that someone is going to say the predator, who has one of the best and most realistic design ever made, is just, 'someone with a funny face', is completly you, just whacking off to the alien.
If I had, at any point, been talking about the design, you might not sound like an idiot right now.
QuoteMaturity huh. So because I said that the alien's head is shaped like a dick, (which it does) makes me immature? What, cuz its true? Ah, sorry if I affended you a bit. :)
Way and context, my friend. Way and context. Two things I doubt you understand.
QuoteMaturity huh. So because I said that the alien's head is shaped like a dick, (which it does) makes me immature? What, cuz its true?
No, you being a moronic tool stating the bleeding obvious make you immature.
Hey, you asked.
QuoteCome down from your high horse, if you don't agree with my comments or responses then say so in a normal way or at least try to say why you don't agree.
If you'd said anything worth responding too, I would respond in a normal way. If we're talking about the complexity of the Predator (or lack thereof), then the Alien is entirely irrelevant. As was your comment about it. You conveniently cherry pick anything negative I have to say about your beloved Predator, and ignore anything positive to be deliberately inflammatory.
Yet more hipocrisy.
Quote from: SiL on May 22, 2009, 01:47:34 AM
If I had, at any point, been talking about the design, you might not sound like an idiot right now.
.....you do know that the face also falls into the predator's design right? Mmhmm, and I sound like an idiot. ::) You say predfans are immature, and yet you sound like you dont even know what you typing right now.
Quote
Way and context, my friend. Way and context. Two things I doubt you understand.
All I said was the head is shaped like a penis is all. No need to be getting upset now.
Quote from: SM on May 22, 2009, 01:53:01 AM
No, you being a moronic tool stating the bleeding obvious make you immature.
Hey, you asked.
....yeah, its obvious you guys are real touchy about someone saying the truth about a design you seem to worship. Im immature, but whos the moron insulting someone else. Im trying to keep myself from turning this into a flame war, which is not much I can say for you. ::)
Boy I'd like to see you trying to start a flame war if this is you not trying to start one.
That'd be some ninth circle stuff, right there.
Trust me. If I wanted this to be a flame war, you would know. Im just writing what I think.
You should know how out of control I would get if I tried making a flame war. Do you remember the one we both got into a year or two ago? Sil was there to. Ill give you a hint, maybe it'll jog your memory. Predators would kick an alien's ass with its bare-hands. :D
Well there's only been 23,467 of those sorts of threads, all of which have been utterly forgettable.
Quote from: Predboy on May 22, 2009, 01:57:45 AM
.....you do know that the face also falls into the predator's design right? Mmhmm, and I sound like an idiot. ::) You say predfans are immature, and yet you sound like you dont even know what you typing right now.
Please start thinking. Honestly.
The Predator, as a
character, is a human with a weird face. That's it. They're people that look different, and they have better technology, but as far as personality and complexity goes,
they're us, but with a different head. That's what I'm saying. That's what I've
been saying. That's all I've ever
said on the matter.
I was never talking about the design itself. That really, really should have been obvious.
The design is streets ahead of the that insect thing with reverse legs they were originally going to use. And is one of the things that lifts this flick above other bog standard 1980s action fare.
But as SiL said, and I mooted a couple of pages back, it is in essence, the rich dude from The Most Dangerous Game replaced with an extra terrestrial. ie. fairly close to being human.
Quote from: SM on May 22, 2009, 02:12:16 AM
Well there's only been 23,467 of those sorts of threads, all of which have been utterly forgettable.
Well, the one I was in lasted pretty long, but whatever.
Quote from: SiL on May 22, 2009, 02:13:03 AM
Please start thinking. Honestly.
The Predator, as a character, is a human with a weird face. That's it. They're people that look different, and they have better technology, but as far as personality and complexity goes, they're us, but with a different head. That's what I'm saying. That's what I've been saying. That's all I've ever said on the matter.
I was never talking about the design itself. That really, really should have been obvious.
Just read the quote you had in the post. Didn't see that, my bad. Not too sure about the personality thing though, but I guess it just goes down to opinions on that one.
Predwank, you were the one who got offended. SiL said the predator is a man with a funny face, and you retorted with "At least he doesn't have a dick-shaped head!". You're such a teenager.
Don't think we really need to fan the flaming of the fans again.
Quote from: SiL on May 22, 2009, 02:13:03 AM
Please start thinking. Honestly.
Can you start thinking as well? Because you followed up that statement with nothing but rubbish.
QuoteThe Predator, as a character, is a human with a weird face. That's it. They're people that look different, and they have better technology, but as far as personality and complexity goes, they're us, but with a different head. That's what I'm saying. That's what I've been saying. That's all I've ever said on the matter.
The Predator as a
character, is a psychopath with a weird face. Psychopaths are only recognizably human physically. Mentally it's a whole different ball park. Everything that makes up a human inside is pretty much gone when it comes to extreme cases, they lack any of the morals, ethics or understanding that make us who we are. If an average joe was given incredible technology and was put in a city of an Alien world, I doubt he'd go around brutally and ritualistically killing people. A psychopath probably would.
Saying as "as far as complexity goes, they're us, but with a different head", is complete drivel. They're like the complete opposite of what we would be like if we had that level of technology. We wouldn't hunt other intelligent races for fun, the morals and ethics of our society wouldn't really allow for that. If we killed them It'd have some purpose, probably for resources, like real war today.
Quote
I was never talking about the design itself. That really, really should have been obvious.
Hell, I would've thought it would've been really, really obvious that when something kills extremely intelligent life forms for nothing more than sadistic pleasure, it would be nothing like a Human. At least a normal one. Guess not.
Aeus, you're really not listening to me.
It's as Busey says in Predator 2 - We're the lion. To the Predator, we are no more or less. This does not make the Predator a psychopath, because as advanced as we may be we're still their inferiors, and they only hunt worthy sport.
If we were their equals, we could relate them to psychopaths, but we're not.
If they were to slaughter us wholesale they could be likened to psychopaths, but they do not.
When I call the Predator a human you also have to take into account our relative positions on the food chain. The Predator is more advanced, tougher, stronger - It's higher. It's the meat-loving man saying f**k the whales, if they taste good, throw them on the barbecue. They are the weekend fishermen saying f**k the endangered Great White, its jaws look good on my wall.
These people wouldn't say "Let's go hunt people" - that's psychopathic - but are more than willing to hunt anything below human.
Succinctly, the Predator is to us what we are to the deer, the lion, the fox. It is a human treating other humans as deer.
Were the Predator actually a human, this would be psychopathic.
But it isn't. It's the friggin' extraterrestrial ubermensch, and we're its entertainment.
Quote from: SiL on May 22, 2009, 10:13:43 AM
Aeus, you're really not listening to me.
Likewise.
QuoteIt's as Busey says in Predator 2 - We're the lion. To the Predator, we are no more or less. This does not make the Predator a psychopath, because as advanced as we may be we're still their inferiors, and they only hunt worthy sport.
The Predators in the films we've all seen aren't necessarily psychotics, we don't know enough about Predators as a whole to judge. But that's not what I'm trying to say. By Human terms, anything that advanced, that sadistically kills civilized life forms for nothing more than it's own pleasure is a psychopath. This is me anthropomorphizing the Predator.
QuoteIf we were their equals, we could relate them to psychopaths, but we're not.
If they were to slaughter us wholesale they could be likened to psychopaths, but they do not.
Whether or not we're equals, we are advanced enough to have civilization, to do things based on morals and ethics rather than acting on instinct. This makes what the Predator is doing wrong, and thus can be likened to a psychopath.
And whether they kill us wholesale or not bares little difference to what light they are shed in. Hell, the fact they methodically stalk and choose which person to kill probably makes them even more psychotic.
QuoteWhen I call the Predator a human you also have to take into account our relative positions on the food chain. The Predator is more advanced, tougher, stronger - It's higher. It's the meat-loving man saying f**k the whales, if they taste good, throw them on the barbecue. They are the weekend fishermen saying f**k the endangered Great White, its jaws look good on my wall.
Predators hunt for sport, when Humans do this, it's largely frowned upon. Humans however, hunt
animals. Predators hunt
civilised creatures. Creatures intelligent enough to have a society, to have ordered lives, to do things that aren't entirely governed by instinct. The law of the jungle and so on applies to animals, not to us. Thus your comparison of us to animals doesn't work, it isn't the same situation.
Quote from: Pvt. Hicks on May 22, 2009, 03:16:20 AM
Predwank, you were the one who got offended. SiL said the predator is a man with a funny face, and you retorted with "At least he doesn't have a dick-shaped head!". You're such a teenager.
Sir Pvt. Retard. For someone to say the predator is just 'some guy with a funny face' is bull that obviously Im gonna respond to. Just like you would probably go on your period if I decided to insult the alien in a certain way.
I really don't get what's so hard to understand about this. I'm not saying anything other than what the writers of the first two movies said themselves. The Predators are big game hunters who've found the most dangerous game - People. They go and they find the toughest people - commandos - and they hunt the shit out of them.
In this way they are entirely analogous to human big game hunters who go into the wild, find the most dangerous game they can, and hunt the shit out of it.
Civilisation don't factor into it. They have gone in search of the best game they can, and they have found it, and it is us. End of.
*steps back in the room*
Have to agree with Sil, just because they hunt humans doesn't make a difference to their mental status. there's not many physcotics flying around in invisable ships that travel faster than light .....
Aliens and Predator fans should be friends yet here we have the worlds most ignorant fans waring over a few f**king comments , lets get back to the thread .... okay? I'm not trying to get you guys pissed at me , but lets get back to the thread....
When it comes to the character of the predator, I think Im leaning more to Aeus's side. Its different with predators than us. Yeah, we both love hunting animals for pleasure and sport, but the fact that the predators love doing it to an intelligent species is something that separates them more from us, well, most of humans.
EDIT: Plus the whole honor code crap and all.
Quoteby: Aeus
Predators hunt for sport, when Humans do this, it's largely frowned upon. Humans however, hunt animals. Predators hunt civilised creatures. Creatures intelligent enough to have a society, to have ordered lives, to do things that aren't entirely governed by instinct. The law of the jungle and so on applies to animals, not to us. Thus your comparison of us to animals doesn't work, it isn't the same situation.
That pretty much said it all.
Quote from: SiL on May 22, 2009, 01:30:59 AM
There was no argument to be made. All he said was "At least the Predator's head doesn't look like a dick". The only way to argue with that would lower to his level and say "Yeah well a Pred's mouth looks like a vagina and dicks f**k pussies lolololol".
To say the Alien's head looks like a dick in the original movie is obvious. But it's the way and context in which he said it - He used it as a lame attack against the Alien. "So the Predator's not complex - At least his head doesn't look like a dick! Nyeurgh!" was what he was saying.
:D
I said it as a joke, and yeah, Ill admit it, a little attack on what you said about the pred, but I misread it, I thought you were saying the pred's design was stupid. The way you said it annoyed me...as it did to everyone else around here I can see.
Quote from: SiL on May 23, 2009, 12:49:58 AM
It really, really didn't.
Yes it did.
You're trying to say they're "a man with a funny face". They're not. Yes if you strip away everything, and I mean everything, you get the whole 'Human Hunter' thing, but the character of a Predator in it's entirety is nothing like a normal Human. And you know that, you're just talking shit to support the ridiculous statement you made in the first place.
Quote from: SiL on May 22, 2009, 10:12:29 PM
Civilisation don't factor into it. They have gone in search of the best game they can, and they have found it, and it is us. End of.
But its different with us. If we went out searching in the woods for something to shoot, and we stumble across a whole new civilization of beings that are smart enough to be in a society and communicate, we're not going to go in and hunt them down like if they were dumb animals. The reason would be because they're not, they're civilized. Predators obviously see we are a society, but because of their character, they decide to hunt us anyway. Big difference right there.
Quote from: Aeus on May 23, 2009, 10:24:23 AM
And you know that, you're just talking shit to support the ridiculous statement you made in the first place.
Man, screw you, no I'm not. The statement stands, it's entirely valid, it's backed up entirely by what the writers themselves said, it's backed up by what's in the first two movies, and
nothing anyone has said has yet proved me wrong.
No-one seems to be able to get into their heads that it doesn't f**king matter if we're civilised. It doesn't. Factor. Into it. We are dangerous game, they are big game hunters,
that's it. There it all ends. They treat us like we treat animals. No ifs, no buts, no maybes, no f**king psychopaths, they're human hunters from space treating humans like lions.
Never heard of African head-hunters? They weren't psychopaths, that's just what they did. That was their culture, that was their society. Sure, it involved decapitating people and keeping their heads, and yes from our perspective now that's waaaay wrong, but it wasn't to them.
Yes, big game hunting, or
any hunting, really, is frowned on
now, but it didn't used to be. It's only a fairly recent - Relatively speaking - development. It used to be something to be
proud of, to go shoot a lion, a rhino, a tiger.
The Predator is the old African head-hunters from space who decided chopping the heads off of everything else would be a better idea than killing each other. They're weekend warriors hunting the most dangerous game.
They are us. Nothing they do is anything beyond what human cultural and societal development hasn't come up with half a dozen times in our history. They are an amalgam of human beliefs rolled into one, no more, no less.
And I really don't get what's to get pissy about here. I don't mean this as a bad thing. I don't mean this as an attack on the Predator. I love the creature, it's one of the best out there, but for f**k's sake, guys, get your heads out your asses and smell the roses.
The Predator's a big game hunter, the Alien is a chittering insect,
who cares.
Unless you can come up with an actual counter-argument rather than saying "But we're civilised! You can't do that shit to
us!", I'm done.
All I need to say is , say we found a secret civilization in a jungle , it was of talking lizard people , just as intelligent as us ,what would the great human kind do , kill them. We'd kill other non human intelligent races , your an idiot and I am not joking if you think humanity would encounter another intelligent life form and treat it fairly , no if we found that there was another species of intelligent life here on our planet earth , we'd get out the big guns and blast at them for no reason but fear and ignorance and the desire to kill an intelligent creature without getting arrested. And also to the predator we may not be civilized at all. For all you know if we encouter alien life , they might be so much higher then us evolutionary wise , that they'd see as animals without higher knowledge so " sentient intelligence " is all relative to species these aliens might show us something and us not get it! They'd then see us as animals that can't even leave their own planet long and hunt us , make you feel great huh hunting f**ker , seriously. >:(
Quote from: SiL on May 23, 2009, 09:56:34 PM
Man, screw you, no I'm not. The statement stands, it's entirely valid, it's backed up entirely by what the writers themselves said, it's backed up by what's in the first two movies, and nothing anyone has said has yet proved me wrong.
No it doesn't. A man doesn't act like a Predator. Some do, but they are considered psychotic or something along the same lines.
QuoteNo-one seems to be able to get into their heads that it doesn't f**king matter if we're civilised. It doesn't. Factor. Into it. We are dangerous game, they are big game hunters, that's it. There it all ends. They treat us like we treat animals. No ifs, no buts, no maybes, no f**king psychopaths, they're human hunters from space treating humans like lions.
Yes it does matter. You can't call them a "man with a funny face", if your average man would never do anything like what Predators do.
QuoteNever heard of African head-hunters? They weren't psychopaths, that's just what they did. That was their culture, that was their society. Sure, it involved decapitating people and keeping their heads, and yes from our perspective now that's waaaay wrong, but it wasn't to them.
If you'd said, they're "African head hunters with a funny face", I'd be like "You're right SiL". But thats not what you said. Yes some men are like Predators, but they aren't a good representation of a normal man by any standard. Completely different society etc, and to your average person would seem largely psychotic.
QuoteThe Predator is the old African head-hunters from space who decided chopping the heads off of everything else would be a better idea than killing each other.
You don't know that. All you know is they show up and slaughter us.
QuoteThey're weekend warriors hunting the most dangerous game. They are us.
They're not us. Especially when you're harkening them to African Head Hunters, who aren't a very good show of what the human race is at large.
QuoteAnd I really don't get what's to get pissy about here. I don't mean this as a bad thing. I don't mean this as an attack on the Predator. I love the creature, it's one of the best out there, but for f**k's sake, guys, get your heads out your asses and smell the roses.
The Predator's a big game hunter, the Alien is a chittering insect, who cares.
I'm not pissed off, I'm just calling you out on a what seemed like a stupid generalization. If I had said the Alien was nothing more than a chittering insect (and ALIEN was the only film out), you'd probably think I was a tool. Because there's a lot more too it than that (even if that's all it's became nowadays).
WOW , read my comment to settle all this , then get back ... to ... the ... f**king thread ... okay?
Like I said, I'm done. I skimmed Aeus' post and he kept with the same stuff, so there's nothing more to say. He hasn't refuted me, I've said my piece, the end.
As for the topic, do we really need younger Preds?
Predators shouldn't be anthropomorphisised. Sil's right, in my view; you can't apply our moral standards to them, because those are patently not the standards they operate by. We don't even have any indication that they would so much as comprehend them, let alone agree with them.
Their trophy cabinets are stuffed full of what they regard to be 'worthy' challenges. They're testaments to the heat of the moment. If anything, that, combined with the reverential appearance of how they stroke the brow of cleaned skulls and wear them, could be said to infer that they regard such things as honouring those they've faced, not disrespecting them.
Predator psychology is, no matter how many ways you bend it, a very alien psychology, in every sense of the phrase. You can't analyse it like you would with a human, because they aren't human.
We're in the same trophy cabinet as they put Alien heads and just about anything else they find: Predators do not care how intelligent your culture considers itself. To them, it does not, must not and has no reason being, factored into the hunt. You're either a target or you're not. The only rule seems to be whether you'd fetch zero or bonus points.
They're no more psychopathic, than ants are for taking slaves or dolphins for casually indulging in gang-rape and infanticide. If humans operated like that? Sure, we could level that accusation at them, but they're not human and never will be.
Which brings me to another point, anyone think that they will keep that 1987 feel to it or modernize the timeline to make it more interesting?
I hope there's no date, like the first film.
Just dudes with guns, and a Predator.
Yeah that was something of a problem with the second one being set during a definate future time period, which will make it seem slightly silly when that actual date roles around a few years after. Unless it's crucial to the story, keep the date out of it.
Quote from: SM on May 26, 2009, 11:46:32 PM
Yeah that was something of a problem with the second one being set during a definate future time period, which will make it seem slightly silly when that actual date roles around a few years after. Unless it's crucial to the story, keep the date out of it.
The story shouldn't be intricate enough to have a date being important. One of the things I'm worried is that we might get some guy who'll think it'd be good to set it in Iraq. Man that would age the movie in the years to come, and for nothing more than a gimmick.
Yeah, if they wanted a desert setting with Seppo soldiers, they could pick any number of places in the middle east or Africa, without any specifics to a conflict or date.