Posted by Thatguy2068
- Today at 05:53:39 AMQuote from: [cancerblack] on Today at 05:05:59 AMI suspect you'll mostly be fighting against gaunts and warriors in sm2, but that's how it should be. 100%, there will be specialist units as buff generators for the basic swarms, and big stuff as boss fights.Yeah, that's properly a good assumption.
Speaking of buffing units there was a scene in this video at 16:25. Big brain flying Tyranid that came in and bought the others
Posted by [cancerblack]
- Today at 05:05:59 AMI suspect you'll mostly be fighting against gaunts and warriors in sm2, but that's how it should be. 100%, there will be specialist units as buff generators for the basic swarms, and big stuff as boss fights.
Try the early 2000's Starship Troopers FPS. It kinda sucks but absolutely scratches that itch, and the number of bugs it can render at once is pretty impressive - it's apparently based on the same tech they did the 97 movie with.
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Today at 04:43:43 AMThe closest thing that I'll get from a actual fighting Tyranid Is in helldivers 2, and Deathwing
Try the early 2000's Starship Troopers FPS. It kinda sucks but absolutely scratches that itch, and the number of bugs it can render at once is pretty impressive - it's apparently based on the same tech they did the 97 movie with.
Posted by Thatguy2068
- Today at 04:43:43 AMThat's good to hear that most of the Lower changes has been mostly positive. I haven't even bought any of the figures, but I absolutely love How they look.
Not related, but do you think it's concerning that there aren't as many enemy Variations in space Marine 2? From what I saw only only like three or four types. If it reveal That they only have those numbers I'll be very disappointed. The closest thing that I'll get from a actual fighting Tyranid Is in helldivers 2, and Deathwing
Not related, but do you think it's concerning that there aren't as many enemy Variations in space Marine 2? From what I saw only only like three or four types. If it reveal That they only have those numbers I'll be very disappointed. The closest thing that I'll get from a actual fighting Tyranid Is in helldivers 2, and Deathwing
Posted by [cancerblack]
- Today at 02:57:00 AMThe Tyranids are my favourite too. But even they've been goofed with in that way, especially around their methods of long distance travel within the galaxy - but not limited to that.
As an example: Squigs started as a type of critter for Warhammer Fantasy. When 40k happened, they introduced them there too. There was a brief period of time, where they were Tyranid experiments on captured orks (and a unit in the Tyranid army, later replaced by Rippers) which the orks had "rescued" and reintroduced to their society.
In a similar vein, RT era Tyranids are described as having things resembling clothing and combat webbing, although cultured from living flesh rather than being made of leather or fabric. They also had (organic) Bolters - which eventually became Fleshborers, and quite some detail goes into describing their miniaturised, organic frag and krak grenades.
Although to be clear, I think most of the (lore) changes to Tyranids have been a positive evolution of the concept. Surprisingly considering the theme though, relatively few changes to them have been presented as new adaptations, mostly new units. The broad stroke stuff is always the usual GW "this is how it's always been" type retcon, at absolute best presented as "new info to the imperium".
As an example: Squigs started as a type of critter for Warhammer Fantasy. When 40k happened, they introduced them there too. There was a brief period of time, where they were Tyranid experiments on captured orks (and a unit in the Tyranid army, later replaced by Rippers) which the orks had "rescued" and reintroduced to their society.
In a similar vein, RT era Tyranids are described as having things resembling clothing and combat webbing, although cultured from living flesh rather than being made of leather or fabric. They also had (organic) Bolters - which eventually became Fleshborers, and quite some detail goes into describing their miniaturised, organic frag and krak grenades.
Although to be clear, I think most of the (lore) changes to Tyranids have been a positive evolution of the concept. Surprisingly considering the theme though, relatively few changes to them have been presented as new adaptations, mostly new units. The broad stroke stuff is always the usual GW "this is how it's always been" type retcon, at absolute best presented as "new info to the imperium".
Posted by Thatguy2068
- Today at 02:49:14 AMThis is why I'm Sticking with the tyranids. I'm pretty sure they have just a simple concept And motivation behind it.
Posted by [cancerblack]
- Today at 01:55:59 AMActually, I've been looking at the second edition Codex: Angels of Death and Codex: Ultramarines, and they're on top of the numbers thing there. It seems playing dumb about the numbers is a 3-7th issue. 8+ with the introduction of Primaris I haven't read much of, but I get the vibe they've (thankfully) just given up on any strictness around the 1000 figure.
Posted by Immortan Jonesy
- Today at 01:52:15 AMthe nun fetish makes a lot of sense now🧝♀️🧚⚛️🌌
Posted by Local Trouble
- Yesterday at 10:19:28 PMThanks, you just made my day a little worse. Now I'm black-pilled too. 
Posted by [cancerblack]
- Yesterday at 10:07:17 PM1000+ chapters, supposedly, but it's still f**k all for an entire galaxy. GW can't into numbers/scale or consistency.
Posted by Local Trouble
- Yesterday at 10:02:29 PMThat's 1,000 per chapter across 666 chapters, right? I always thought that was a ridiculously small number of Astartes for a galactic-scale war and constant attrition, even if the Astra Militarum does the lion's share of the fighting.
Posted by [cancerblack]
- Yesterday at 08:41:57 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Yesterday at 03:11:53 AMAre you going to tell him about the necrons?Spoiler
I think he's going to tell him about the necrons.[close]
Actually, I'm going to talk about Space Marines.
We all know what they are, Games Workshop has made damn sure of that. If you're in this thread, you probably know that they're organised into chapters of "about 1000" marines. I use quotation marks there because for a long time it was simply "1000 marines", until GW realised this conflicted with their own lore, and added the vagueness clause.
How many more than a thousand, assuming full strength? That's never really been consistent either. We know for a fact that we can add an additional 60 marines thanks to the Captain, Chaplain and five-man command squad each company contains. We won't count Dreadnoughts, as, despite technically being Space Marines, they're also living relics and somewhat outside the standard organisation.
What about headquarters and support staff? It gets hairy here. There's four we can name easily, being the Chapter Master (and maybe, but maybe not, a command squad or honour guard), Chief Librarian, Master of Sanctity, and Master of the forge. There are no set numbers of Librarians, Reclusiarchs or Techmarines, but I think it's safe to say there's probably 10-20 each of Librarians and Techmarines per Chapter, and perhaps 5 or so Reclusiarchs. Using the larger of those numbers, we're now at 1000 + 89.
Lets talk about Apothecaries though. We know there's a Master of the Apothecarion too, and at least one Apothecary per company, taking us to a cool 100 extra Marines. One medic per 100 guys seems low though, and GW have both acknowledged this at times while ignoring it at others. There might be a lot more medics. Sometimes there is, sometimes there's not. It's also extremely unclear (as in, it's been stated and shown both ways, repeatedly) whether Apothecaries are counted as part of those five-man company command squads, or are auxiliary to the company and take the number to 107 per formation.
And support roles, such as Master of the Fleet, Master of Recruits, and so on? These have been roles filled by "retired" veteran Marines in some lore, or by the Captains of reserve companies when GW feels like it. It's never really been stated that the role is open to both/either, simply presented as absolute fact that it's whichever one GW says it is right now (which could change again without notice).
Then there's the 10th Company, or Scout Company. Is this actually 100 men (or rather, 106, possibly 107)? This is where new recruits are trained before earning their power armour, and it seems bizarre that a Marine Chapter would limit itself to only field-training 100 recruits at a time, given attrition rates and the tyranny of distance. The exact number of Scout units a full strength chapter can deploy is often very vague and inconsistent for this reason, but it's not unreasonable to assume that after a large recruitment push and a relatively quiet time for the rest of the chapter, there could easily be another 50-100 Marines over the baseline 100 listed. Let's be generous and use the larger number again. We're now at 1200 Marines.
The problem now, is all those vehicles. The Fleet and various support vehicles have human crews, but there are at least 100 Rhino APCs, 10 Razorback APCs, and any number of Land Raiders, Predators, Whirlwinds, Hunters etc, plus dropships and light aircraft.
Who is crewing all these tanks?
GW has, at various points, claimed it's human chapter serfs, or failed marine aspirants. Except the rules and models have always shown the crew to be fully armed and armoured Space Marines, so they stopped doing that. Where are all these other marines coming from? That's two crew per ground vehicle, and one pilot per drop/air craft. Sometimes Games Workshop will say that it's the Marines of the reserve companies pulling this duty, except sometimes GW also says that a chapter can deploy its full strength in boots on the ground while still having transports, tanks and air support. Which would mean, wait for it, there's another (conservative estimate) 300 Space Marines crewing all these vehicles.
GW is not and probably never will be consistent on this issue, but we could be looking at "about 1000" Marines actually being more like minimum 1500 Marines at full strength. That's 50% more Space Marines than advertised.
And all of this changes at the drop of a hat, fairly regularly. I haven't mentioned anything about Primaris Marines throwing off numbers or organisation because that actually was presented as a new development, not quietly retconned as always having been that way or presented in frustratingly inconsistent ways like the other stuff.
I also mentioned in a previous post, things like Centurion Armour, the Hunter tank, etc. Usually when GW makes a new Space Marine unit or vehicle, it is simply presented as always having been part of their organisations - you just didn't know about them til now. There will very often be bits of fluff in the accompanying Codex depicting these new units in historic battles, to drive the point home.
I could also mention that Space Marines used to be brain-wiped convicts who acted like petty space-cops, not the genetically enhanced angels of death we know today, and that that particular retcon was never presented as a change but as just the way it'd always been, but that's really another rabbit hole.
So, in summary, Games Workshop has had 36 years to define their poster-boy faction and financial golden goose - to decide how many Space Marines are in a Chapter, and what equipment and vehicles they have access to - and they can't even give you a straight answer on that.
Consistent, GW is not.
Posted by Local Trouble
- Yesterday at 06:31:02 AMQuote from: Thatguy2068 on Yesterday at 03:17:29 AMI know the Necrons. I don't know How bad is their consistency is
It's a touchy subject. Tread carefully.
Posted by Immortan Jonesy
- Yesterday at 04:21:49 AMlos necrones!!!! 😍 hasta la vista baby
Posted by Thatguy2068
- Yesterday at 03:17:29 AMI know the Necrons. I don't know How bad is their consistency is
Posted by Local Trouble
- Yesterday at 03:11:53 AMAre you going to tell him about the necrons?
Spoiler
I think he's going to tell him about the necrons.
[close]
