Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights

Started by Kailem, Apr 16, 2021, 12:46:54 AM

Author
Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights (Read 46,553 times)

SiL

The notices are required to be valid for the provision to take effect. Disney is saying they are not valid, ergo.

This is still besides the larger point of why an injunction is likely. There are too many things that need to get resolved. That's entirely the point of an injunction - to stop things getting messier so everything can get sorted.

Honestly at this point it feels like you're disagreeing with me for the sake of it every time I post here.

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 01:39:28 PM
Honestly at this point it feels like you're disagreeing with me for the sake of it every time I post here.

SiL, I think you started this one brother. In this latest conversation, all I did was post my opinion on injunction likelihood that Proteus inquiried about :

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2021, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Proteus on Apr 22, 2021, 02:14:39 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2021, 01:58:49 PM
Now this thread is REALLY taking a turn! :laugh:
Back on topic we go please!

Okay. On topic. Likelihood judge issues the injunction come May 27th? I say strong.
Yeah, I see the injunction happening (un)fortunately.

It's a tough bet, but I'd wager the preliminary injunction does not happen, because it's not a question of ownership (at least right now), but just a question of when that date of ownership changes. And if Disney truly has another year, you're essentially taking it away with this injunction in place. Then, say the trial drags out past that extra year, and Disney eventually wins. The question for Disney becomes.. You stopped everything US Court. So what did we win?

While it was my opinion, you disagreed with it, gave your many reasons why, which is fine, and our conversation ensued.

So... welcome to discussion forums!  :)

Xiggz456

Just my two cents but it is coming across as Voodoo jumping all over Sil as though he's spouting misinformation when all of Sil's posts have been well constructed. It's coming across like this:

My speculation is right and your speculation is wrong

I get that we're all justifiably worried but as someone who's had some experience in Contract Law, I think Sil's speculation has been solid and fully based on the Language presented. Obviously Language can be interpreted differently and that's why we have to "wait and see" how the judge interprets said Language but we can and should respect all the different angles that this motion can entail without attacking each other's theories.  :)

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#303
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Apr 23, 2021, 02:33:00 PM
Just my two cents but it is coming across as Voodoo jumping all over Sil as though he's spouting misinformation when all of Sil's posts have been well constructed. It's coming across like this:

My speculation is right and your speculation is wrong

I get that we're all justifiably worried but as someone who's had some experience in Contract Law, I think Sil's speculation has been solid and fully based on the Language presented. Obviously Language can be interpreted differently and that's why we have to "wait and see" how the judge interprets said Language but we can and should respect all the different angles that this motion can entail without attacking each other's theories.  :)

Jumping all over SiL I think is a bit of hyperbole. If one looks, I didn't begin this latest conversation and SiL has countered my posts as well as others with his own speculation. But that's okay. It really is. That's what we do here. Discussion board. Point and counter point. :)

In regards to this legal complaint and counter complaint, I'm just trying my best to interpret the actual words on the legal filings and only what is on the legal filings as best as I can. I used to do this at my job. But even I have to catch myself inserting speculation.  ;)

Proteus

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 02:52:57 PM
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Apr 23, 2021, 02:33:00 PM
Just my two cents but it is coming across as Voodoo jumping all over Sil as though he's spouting misinformation when all of Sil's posts have been well constructed. It's coming across like this:

My speculation is right and your speculation is wrong

I get that we're all justifiably worried but as someone who's had some experience in Contract Law, I think Sil's speculation has been solid and fully based on the Language presented. Obviously Language can be interpreted differently and that's why we have to "wait and see" how the judge interprets said Language but we can and should respect all the different angles that this motion can entail without attacking each other's theories.  :)

Jumping all over SiL I think is a bit of hyperbole. If one looks, I didn't begin this latest conversation and SiL has countered my posts as well as others with his own speculation. But that's okay. It really is. That's what we do here. Discussion board. Point and counter point. :)

In regards to this legal complaint and counter complaint, I'm just trying my best to interpret the actual words on the legal filings and only what is on the legal filings as best as I can. I used to do this at my job. But even I have to catch myself inserting speculation.  ;)


Hey, we should all strive in sharing our opinions and discussing other's opinions without rancor.

At the end of the day, we know little of what may happen. I am of the side in hoping things are resolved swiftly and without need for injunction so that we as fans can hopefully have SKULLS.

But that's it. That's all I have currently. Hope. We shall see what happens in a month.

Voodoo Magic

Indeed!

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 23, 2021, 03:20:04 PM
At the end of the day, we know little of what may happen.

And isn't that the truth! We haven't even been privy to Disney's full counter legal complaint yet. Here SiL and I are debating just a paragraph or so, and there could be much more content to review in Disney's countersuit. In that prism, I must admit, it's silly at this point. :P

Ugh, the wait to May 27th for just the injunction will be grueling.  :-\

Stitch

I haven't read the whole legal paper, but if Disney's claim is that the Thomas brothers' suit is legally invalid because it wasn't filed properly, doesn't that indirectly imply that if filed correctly, Disney would lose? It sounds like a legal loophole that they're trying to exploit because they know they're going to lose.

Proteus

Proteus

#307
Quote from: Stitch on Apr 23, 2021, 05:01:41 PM
I haven't read the whole legal paper, but if Disney's claim is that the Thomas brothers' suit is legally invalid because it wasn't filed properly, doesn't that indirectly imply that if filed correctly, Disney would lose? It sounds like a legal loophole that they're trying to exploit because they know they're going to lose.

I won't claim to know how these legal proceedings will go or if anything I say could be possible, but is it feasible that Disney is betting on the filing being incorrect, the termination date is wrong, and there will be no injunction so that they delay until 2022 so they can proceed with SKULLS, since they've invested time and money into it. I feel like at this point Disney just wants to get one film in before losing the rights.

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#308
^ Yep, it certainly seems that way from what we've seen so far.

So if the court finds the Termination Notice invalid, according to the Thomas Brothers legal complaint, this should happen:



  • In the unlikely event the Court finds the Termination Notice is invalid, Plaintiffs' Second Termination Notice or Third Termination Notice is valid, with effective termination dates of June 14, 2022 or January 13, 2023, respectively.

And at this point we haven't seen anything pubically yet where Disney's legal team said the Predator copyright should never go back to the Thomas Brothers, at least not yet.

Proteus

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2021, 06:56:55 PM
^ Yep, it certainly seems that way from what we've seen so far.

So if the court finds the Termination Notice invalid, according to the Thomas Brothers legal complaint, this should happen:



  • In the unlikely event the Court finds the Termination Notice is invalid, Plaintiffs' Second Termination Notice or Third Termination Notice is valid, with effective termination dates of June 14, 2022 or January 13, 2023, respectively.

And at this point we haven't seen anything pubically yet where Disney's legal team said the Predator copyright should never go back to the Thomas Brothers, at least not yet.

Yeah, details suggest that no one is disputing the rights claim. I think most of us also KNOW the brothers are attaining the rights. It's just a matter of when. I just now think Disney is fighting to get SKULLS out if only to make some money on a property they started working on.

Beyond that, who knows motivations.

SiL

The problem with using the wording of the Brothers' complaint to interpret Disney's stance is that Disney posted a new counterclaim after the Brothers' complaint. But the full text of that claim hasn't been made available.

From how it's been described in various media channels - including the quoted paragraph we've been discussing already - the claim seems to have shifted from "you're early" to "your claim is invalid and you get nothing". The one extra bit I can find is from Hollywood Reporter:

While federal statutory copyright law endows certain grantors, like defendants [the Thomas brothers], with copyright termination rights, such rights may only be exercised in accordance with the statute's requirements, including provisions delineating when termination notices may be served and when the termination of rights becomes effective," states the 20th Century complaint. "Defendants' notices fail to comply with these statutory requirements and are invalid as a matter of law.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/predator-screenwriters-suing-disney-to-recapture-rightswzz

From what little we've seen it does look like Disney's lawyers are trying to prove statutory requirements were not met for the action to be legally valid.

How this resolves, only time will tell.

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 09:25:24 PM
The problem with using the wording of the Brothers' complaint to interpret Disney's stance is that Disney posted a new counterclaim after the Brothers' complaint. But the full text of that claim hasn't been made available.

That's why I wrote the caveat "according to the Thomas Brothers legal complaint" so we know it's according to them.

QuoteFrom how it's been described in various media channels - including the quoted paragraph we've been discussing already - the claim seems to have shifted from "you're early" to "your claim is invalid and you get nothing".

See the "you get nothing" you threw in there has been our point of contention. We haven't been able to confirm that aspect yet, with what's been provided.

But good news! I was just emailed that Disney's counter-claim is available while typing this. Let me check this out and be back. :)

Voodoo Magic

Okay, it appears that in January 2023 the Thomas Brothers may very well get their Predator (Hunter) copyright back.

The lowdown: The Thomas Brothers legal representation sent Fox/ Disney three (3) Termination notices to reclaim Predator.

1st Notice: Mainly referenced an incorrect copyright number. Hunter script was never registered at the copyright office (which doesn't need to by law) but the Predator rewrite script was, and that's the copyright number that they incorrectly referenced. INVALID PER DISNEY

2nd Notice: Mainly corrected first notice but termination date was now less than two years required by law from notice. INVALID PER DISNEY

3rd Notice: Other than acknowledgement of receipt, nothing in the Disney countersuit is saying it's invalid.

So far, this is just about getting the first two termination notices declared as invalid. Disney is not arguing that the Thomas Brothers don't get the copyright back.

Doc is here:
https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/FILED_Complaint-with-Exhibits.pdf

SiL

SiL

#313
Great find and good news! So each date was a separate notice, rather than caveats on the original, and they're only arguing the soonest two are invalid. Sweet.

Proteus

Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2021, 10:49:35 PM
Great find and good news! So each date was a separate notice, rather than caveats on the original, and they're only arguing the soonest two are invalid. Sweet.

Look, I'm not saying the brothers shouldn't have the rights back. I think most of us feel this way, BUT if it turns out that 2023 is the real date, then awesome. That's 2 years of trying to pump out as much Predator material as possible (for better or worse), and honesty as a fan, PELT ME WITH CONTENT.

At the end of the day, I just want SKULLS to happen, man. I'm happy with just that until the brothers retain rights.

Let's hope those early dates are invalid.

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