Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights

Started by Kailem, Apr 16, 2021, 12:46:54 AM

Author
Jim and John Thomas suing Disney to reclaim Predator rights (Read 46,484 times)

Engineer

Quote from: Mr.Turok on Apr 18, 2021, 10:44:46 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 18, 2021, 07:57:54 PM
Are you afraid that The Predator might be the last movie of the franchise ?

Spoiler










[close]

https://i.imgur.com/T7Qv7k7.png

Hey, remember the part in the document where they considered all 5 movies, Predator, Predator 2, Predators, AVP, and AVPR, as part of their  "five sequel films" and NOT The Predator  :laugh:

QuoteUnder the termination provisions, prior "derivative works" "can continue to be" distributed as before. 17 U.S.C. § 203(b)(1). Plaintiffs' recovery of the U.S. copyright to their Screenplay therefore does not prevent Defendants or their licensees from continuing to exploit prior derivative works, including the original Predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films.

"Original predator film and TCFFC's five sequel films"

1. Predator 2
2. AvP
3. AvP: Requiem
4. Predators
5. The predator

Proteus

Quote from: SiL on Apr 18, 2021, 10:48:28 PM
Original film and five sequels.

People acting like the Brothers getting the rights back immediately means the end of the franchise are being unnecessarily pessimistic. It's a possibility, not a certainty.

It's not so much the possibility of an end, but more that this year was set to have some decent amount of Predator content and things to talk about and/or speculate. And all that could come to a screeching halt or end depending on judge's ruling. That's the awful part. We KNOW a new film is in the works, but that could stop. We KNOW new comics were coming. That could stop. We KNOW new updates for the game were coming. Again... stop. If this had occurred when none of us were privy to any of this, we wouldn't feel this downtrodden. In fact, we all would probably largely welcome it because nothing was happening with the franchise anyway, right? But that's not true. Content was on its way, and now it could be YEARS before anything. As a fan, do you not agree that sucks?

bb-15

I saw that YouTube video "predator legal battle discussion - Thomas Bros. v. Disney"; I appreciate the information.
- What this highlights for me is how convoluted the US copyright system is. Where film rights belong to a studio but then the rights can revert back to another copyright holder if a film production of the copyrighted property is not done quickly enough.

In the Thomas Bros. v. Disney case there isn't even an agreement about what the deadline date should be! The lawsuit admits that there could be other dates. In the meantime the Thomas Bros. are trying to get an injunction to stop future productions including for "Skulls". Ugh!

:-(

Immortan Jonesy

Quote from: RidgeTop on Apr 18, 2021, 10:36:32 PM
Hicks, Voodoo, and I discuss:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VAA5BGOXf4

Thanks!




Quote from: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 18, 2021, 10:48:28 PM
Original film and five sequels.

People acting like the Brothers getting the rights back immediately means the end of the franchise are being unnecessarily pessimistic. It's a possibility, not a certainty.

It's not so much the possibility of an end, but more that this year was set to have some decent amount of Predator content and things to talk about and/or speculate. And all that could come to a screeching halt or end depending on judge's ruling. That's the awful part. We KNOW a new film is in the works, but that could stop. We KNOW new comics were coming. That could stop. We KNOW new updates for the game were coming. Again... stop. If this had occurred when none of us were privy to any of this, we wouldn't feel this downtrodden. In fact, we all would probably largely welcome it because nothing was happening with the franchise anyway, right? But that's not true. Content was on its way, and now it could be YEARS before anything. As a fan, do you not agree that sucks?


It may be too early, but fear is normal. We are fans aren't we?  :laugh:

SiL

Quote from: Proteus on Apr 18, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 18, 2021, 10:48:28 PM
Original film and five sequels.

People acting like the Brothers getting the rights back immediately means the end of the franchise are being unnecessarily pessimistic. It's a possibility, not a certainty.

It's not so much the possibility of an end, but more that this year was set to have some decent amount of Predator content and things to talk about and/or speculate. And all that could come to a screeching halt or end depending on judge's ruling. That's the awful part. We KNOW a new film is in the works, but that could stop. We KNOW new comics were coming. That could stop. We KNOW new updates for the game were coming. Again... stop. If this had occurred when none of us were privy to any of this, we wouldn't feel this downtrodden. In fact, we all would probably largely welcome it because nothing was happening with the franchise anyway, right? But that's not true. Content was on its way, and now it could be YEARS before anything. As a fan, do you not agree that sucks?
The Brothers filed their intent five years ago. The only thing this makes me is annoyed at Fox/Disney for not sorting this shit out already.

BlueMarsalis79

Another addition to the list of Fox blunders.

SiL

Disney's held the property since 2019 and clearly developed plans to continue to exploit it; they maybe should've done their homework. They responded to the claim in January; again, that's four months they could've done something rather than throw up a limp-wristed legal speed bump.

Keep in mind there's actually nothing they can do to stop it. But they could've at least tried to work out a deal before putting Skulls and the comics into action.

BlueMarsalis79

I'm not saying Disney's any better.

Immortan Jonesy

Well given they've been working on Skulls for at least 4 years, Disney didn't do the homework that Fox didn't do either.  :-\

https://twitter.com/DannyTRS/status/1329919692157444096

SiL

Quote from: RidgeTop on Apr 18, 2021, 10:36:32 PM
Hicks, Voodoo, and I discuss:

https://youtu.be/7VAA5BGOXf4
Great discussion!

One thing that stood out; at about 16 minutes VooDoo says that this case isn't unique because of Superman and F13, but there's actually quite a big difference here.

The Superman rights issue had nothing to do with this particular provision; the issue stemmed from whether one of the creators had or had not actually transferred rights to the other back in the 1930s. The estate of one of the original co-creators contended that he hadn't, and so they had the rights to the character. The courts found otherwise.

With F13, it's actually quite muddy whether the provision could be invoked at all. The original script was written because the producer asked the writer to put something together that would ride the post-Halloween gravy train. This would make the script a work-for-hire, and thus ineligible. However, nothing was ever put onto paper explicitly declaring the script a work for hire, and so the provision was invoked. The appeal seems to be based around clarifying whether a verbal agreement is legally binding.

This is actually the first time (as far as anyone seems aware) that this specific provision has been used pretty unambiguously, following the specific steps laid out in its use. There's no contention this was a spec script, and the Brothers filed their intent well within the guidelines. Disney's entire counter-claim is that the date they gave was too early, not that they aren't allowed to get the rights back.


Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 19, 2021, 05:34:06 AM
Well given they've been working on Skulls for at least 4 years, Disney didn't do the homework that Fox didn't do either.  :-\

https://twitter.com/DannyTRS/status/1329919692157444096
4 years ago they had time to make and release the film inside the guidelines, though. They only started casting and location scouting in the last few months, when the clock was running down.

Immortan Jonesy

But what about trademark ??? I thought the trademark lasts forever.  :-\

Quote from: SiL on Apr 19, 2021, 05:42:49 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 19, 2021, 05:34:06 AM
Well given they've been working on Skulls for at least 4 years, Disney didn't do the homework that Fox didn't do either.  :-\

https://twitter.com/DannyTRS/status/1329919692157444096
4 years ago they had time to make and release the film inside the guidelines, though. They only started casting and location scouting in the last few months, when the clock was running down.

Very true.

SiL

SiL

#176
Trademarks can be renewed in perpetuity, yes. So Steamboat Willy will be going out of copyright soon (This year I think? Or it's already there), but Mickey Mouse is still a trademarked character.

And there's the rub. The Brothers get the copyright to their script; but if they wanted to shop it around, presumably the trademarks are still held at Fox/Disney. They'd need to sell it as a completely new adaptation, I think. But Disney/Fox couldn't continue to exploit the trademark beyond what's already made, as it would rely on the copyright of the original script.

Which is one of many reasons I'm pretty sure they just want to use this legal tool to renegotiate their license, not kill the franchise. But we won't know until it happens.

EDIT

A friend of mine is a trademark lawyer so I'm running this by her. Very curious to hear what she says!

EDIT

On the face of it, she says they wouldn't be allowed to use the trademarks without permission. So if they sold the rights elsewhere, it would need to be a new adaptation, or with Fox's blessing.

BlueMarsalis79

So either it's with Disney or it's dead, got it.

SiL

SiL

#178
Yes, which further points to this just being them exercising their right to get a better deal, not give the franchise to someone else.

(Of course she doesn't know the case in detail and is only giving her opinion based on the case summary).

Valaquen

Honestly, I always support the creators in issues like this. If there's no more Predator comics or movies I won't really weep. It's a cash grab for the studio every time and some fans are gluttons who simply want to consume endlessly (I know I'll be pilloried for that :laugh:).

Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube RSS Feed