In your opinion do you think Alien 3 killed the franchise?

Started by Aliens1986fanboy, Aug 29, 2019, 09:56:05 AM

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In your opinion do you think Alien 3 killed the franchise? (Read 26,371 times)

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Elmazalman on Sep 03, 2019, 10:00:47 PM
Quote from: Doctor Ash on Sep 03, 2019, 04:34:36 PM


Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Sep 03, 2019, 03:29:47 PM
Quote from: Doctor Ash on Sep 03, 2019, 08:17:45 AM
It's most likely a *really* unpopular opinion, but i think if one of the movies really killed the Alien franchise

I don't think your premise works because there was no franchise to kill before Aliens. Aliens made Alien a franchise. Alien was a brilliant film, yes, but much like Terminator 2: Judgment Day or The Road Warrior (Mad Max 2) it was Aliens that turned Alien into a worldwide phenomenon. It created the franchise, not destroyed it.

You're right, it was very successful and one of the reasons the franchise grew to be as big as it was in its best times. But it also laid the seed of its downfall. There were so many different ways to follow up on Alien. Who knows what might have been, if another director with a different idea would have done a sequel instead of Cameron [emoji848]

Maybe we wouldn't even have a franchise now or it might have been different, bigger and more interesting than that what we have.

We'll never know...


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I'm grateful it went the way it did. The first follow-up to ALIEN may have been another JAWS 2 - an unworthy sequel that lacked the first film's quality.
I'm thankful the 'franchise' has two genuine film classics.

I concur and I'm thankful too. We're lucky we didn't get a formula rehash repeat Jaws 2 or Halloween 2 but rather a one two punch of films that differ enough yet are so still complimentary to each other because the horror to action-horror progression is so organic. Yet they stand on their own as classics in their own right because of it. Alien and Aliens do not fight for the same spotlight because they differ enough to stand under two different spotlights. It's fantastic.

And it seems all I do is keep agreeing with Elmazalman lately.  :)

razeak

I would argue that A3 definitely followed Alien more than Aliens. A more apt theory would be Alien laid the seed.

Big Chap displayed no more cunning than the horde in Aliens. He didn't cut the power. He chose an alternate route to his prey to avoid obstructions, the same as the Hadley's Hope xenos avoided the sentry guns after realizing they weren't defenseless. He did nothing different other than whatever it was he did to Lambert. He didn't even ambush Lambert and Parker. He just kind of walked in like he owned the place (true enough I guess).

I would speculate someone else making a sequel to Alien would have produced an lesser result and the franchise would probably be smaller than it is. Cameron was the eye of a perfect storm of elements that made such a great film.


SM

QuoteHe didn't cut the power.

"I thought you fixed 12 module?"

QuoteHe didn't even ambush Lambert and Parker.

He did however place himself in a position where Parker couldn't shoot him without hitting Lambert.

Samhain13

Quote from: razeak on Sep 04, 2019, 02:10:11 AM
He did nothing different other than whatever it was he did to Lambert.

Come on we all imagined what happened.

Quote from: razeak on Sep 04, 2019, 02:10:11 AM
He didn't even ambush Lambert and Parker. He just kind of walked in like he owned the place (true enough I guess).

Now that you put it like that... Parker attacked first. Guess it was self defense after all. Sure from what they had learned the Alien would act violently towards them but it was just checking out Lambert before Parker jumped on it.

Kimarhi

Kimarhi

#49
I couldn't really elaborate earlier because I was on lunch break with my phone, but I think Aliens did a pretty good job of opening up the Alien universe.  The corporation only really hinted at in the first one is brought to the forefront of the second, you see more of the Alien hierarchy, you see more of the colonial life and government, you see multiple locations, technologies, and demographics of the population, future military technology etc.

Now all the EU that focused SOLELY on the same aspects over and over again can be blamed on being close minded for sure, but I feel that Aliens had a pretty big scope that was obviously laying the groundwork for something more grand and bigger scale before Alien 3 happened and went the way it did. 

Which you could have still done something with, the series didn't need the Ripley character anymore, until they decided that the series needed the Ripley character and basically eliminated 200 years post Alien 3 to do anything in. 

The EU HAS been much better lately, but I contain that stuff in its own continuity after Hicks and Newt became Wilks and Billie.  If it happend once it can happen again.   

Kind of like how WY won and has a xeno weapons program, only they went bankrupt in Alien Res and were bought out by wal mart.  I always took it as the implication being that they wasted too much money trying to locate and exploit the alien and bankrupted themselves. 

Anyways, side tangent. 

Besides, Scott tried to reopen the universe with his two prequels and all their crazy shit, and we all saw how that went down. 

Elmazalman

Quote from: SM on Sep 04, 2019, 02:23:54 AM
QuoteHe didn't cut the power.

"I thought you fixed 12 module?"

QuoteHe didn't even ambush Lambert and Parker.

He did however place himself in a position where Parker couldn't shoot him without hitting Lambert.
Are you implying the Alien was the cause of the blackout in the C - Level corridor?

Kimarhi

It's been implied since 1979. 

Huggs

I thought that was common knowledge?

SM

Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 04, 2019, 03:39:33 AM
It's been implied since 1979. 

And how did Jones manage to get stuck in that locker?

Kimarhi

I remember starting a thread about this back in the gamegossip days  ;)



Huggs

Huggs

#55
Quote from: SM on Sep 04, 2019, 04:12:43 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 04, 2019, 03:39:33 AM
It's been implied since 1979. 

And how did Jones manage to get stuck in that locker?

I always thought Ash did it, because I just can't see big chap letting him live.

Killing the lights is one thing. Knowing the specifics of a machine he's being tracked with before he sees it is another.

SM

Quote from: Kimarhi on Sep 04, 2019, 04:13:49 AM
I remember starting a thread about this back in the gamegossip days  ;)

I think I recall.

Kimarhi

It was less convincing because the locker door swung to the side, at the time I remember thinking the locker doors opened from top to bottom. 

Elmazalman

I assumed the blackout in the C - Level corridor was the result of the rough landing (shorting out wiring, etc) and not something mysterious. Ripley did report to Dallas that repairs weren't completed, they were still blind on B and C decks ("Reserve power system is blown.").

Later, when queried by Ripley about repairs to 12 module, Brett replies: "We did ... I don't understand it." The stress to the ship, on leaving the planet, could have undone any repairs to 12 module.









Doctor Ash

Quote from: Elmazalman on Sep 03, 2019, 10:00:47 PM
Quote from: Doctor Ash on Sep 03, 2019, 04:34:36 PM


Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Sep 03, 2019, 03:29:47 PM
Quote from: Doctor Ash on Sep 03, 2019, 08:17:45 AM
It's most likely a *really* unpopular opinion, but i think if one of the movies really killed the Alien franchise

I don't think your premise works because there was no franchise to kill before Aliens. Aliens made Alien a franchise. Alien was a brilliant film, yes, but much like Terminator 2: Judgment Day or The Road Warrior (Mad Max 2) it was Aliens that turned Alien into a worldwide phenomenon. It created the franchise, not destroyed it.

You're right, it was very successful and one of the reasons the franchise grew to be as big as it was in its best times. But it also laid the seed of its downfall. There were so many different ways to follow up on Alien. Who knows what might have been, if another director with a different idea would have done a sequel instead of Cameron [emoji848]

Maybe we wouldn't even have a franchise now or it might have been different, bigger and more interesting than that what we have.

We'll never know...


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I'm grateful it went the way it did. The first follow-up to ALIEN may have been another JAWS 2 - an unworthy sequel that lacked the first film's quality.
I'm thankful the 'franchise' has two genuine film classics.
Or if Ridley did the second one and rehired Giger to work with him again, he would have already brought the Space Jockeys (not as humanoids) back and used them in a more satisfying way than in Prometheus and Covenant.

Or perhaps he or someone else introduced some of the elements Dan O'Bannon came up with like the Aliens having a culture, which they join up with after they have matured enough.

This are only two possibilities, and there a lot of ways the franchise could have become great, without Aliens. Maybe not as big but perhaps still relevant.

But on the other side a Jaws 2 like sequel could also have happened and killed the Franchise before it was really born. Or everything after would have been B-Movies...

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